What Is Edward Cabrera’s CEILING With the Chicago Cubs in 2026? | CHGO Cubs Podcast

Hey Chicago, what do you say? It's the CHTO Cubs podcast. It is already February 3rd. That means

Oh, spring trains creeping up on a year February. It is a Tuesday with Roman Justin Roman is back

from a very chilly state of Florida. Yeah, man, huh? I mean, cold. It was, uh, I'm not going to

boy with the details, but Saturday I was at Epic Universe. And it was colder there than it is

here today. And for Florida, like pipes were bursting. Yes. I mean, they're not rise or breaking

down. Like they are not used to the cold. And, uh, yeah, that was crazy. We love you. But I like

to hear that anytime anybody else goes on vacation that didn't take me with. Oh, I like to hear

that they froze. The first three days were awesome. But Saturday was not. It was the opposite awesome.

Imagine Mickey with hypothermia. That's the hospital. Like Jasmine just wearing like a

full coat. Honestly, like the real feel on Sunday morning waking up was like 10 in Orlando,

Florida. They were closing down like schools that week because pipes were bursting. And they are

not ready for it, man. And I'm glad to be home though. I was one more thing I'll say. I was in line

and one of the great rides and everything. And I'm looking out like my family and on a warm day.

And I'm like, the Cubs signed Alex Breggman. Like this is really, this is real. Like this is

really happening this year. Like that's where my mind was at. So I'm glad to be back talking

to you guys. I thought you were going to say I was on a ride and I thought to myself,

wonder what Joey and Luke are doing. I know what you're doing at two o'clock every day. I know that.

But I'm more excited about the big picture, which is this Cubs team is going to be really,

really good. Shout out to everybody in the live YouTube chat. I see our guy Ron is here. Uh,

Barb, Becky, all the regulars are here. Barb's doing well. Um, Joey's, but Joey's back. Yeah,

Barb says Larry's here. Larry and Joey are all here. If you haven't heard, first of all,

sir, did you get a chance to see some of the pictures that I put in Slack, by the way? No. Okay,

don't worry about it. Let me grab a revolution. Are we okay? No, no, no, no. Okay.

I was, I'm starting to see a lot of photographs coming in from spring train. And they always

get me excited. Our guy Rich Beasterfeld, we can show some of those maybe later in the show. He

had some Nico Horner pics. And then John Antonov, who's at baseball and focus had PCA catching a ball

behind his back. And I thought, Oh, man, this is great. And it got me to thinking, listen,

not only is this awesome that these guys are already there working hard when they don't have to

be there. Yeah. What got me excited is that we've got our big spring training trip locked in and

loaded. It's happening. So if you guys don't know, the road trip to spring training is March 5th

through March 8th. And it's presented by our friends at Shady Rays. Here's the deal. You go

with us to spring training. And we hang out. We go to Cubs games. You hang out. We go to maybe

even a socks game. If you want to a bull's game, a bulls game, bulls and sons are there. And we've

got a golf outing lined up. You don't have to do everything if you don't want to. If you're sick of

us, just go to the Cubs games, whatever. We're going to hang out in the sun. And I've told Joey,

I have already ordered the vat of sunscreen that I will need. Yeah, you will, right?

You know, so I know that already. And I have now confirmed with the cactus league that I am

allowed to go in the outfield despite the reflective characters that I will have out there.

So the players have said, it's okay. We'll know what it is. It's just me sitting in the outfield.

I want to know, is Craig Brindle going to be there? Says 76 and sunny. It's going to be beautiful.

I mean, I'll tell you what, are you going to be there, Craig? I had a bit of cold weather.

This past weekend of Florida, Arizona is not going to be cold. Arizona is a desert for a reason.

And spring training is a staple. I grew up going to spring training. Oh, my parents every

single year for a long time. And I cannot wait to go back with you guys. It's going to be so

much fun. Like my first time with you two, my first time with C. H. Yo, I love Mesa, Arizona.

I actually have never been to the new Sloan Park. Oh, I'm very excited. Yeah, I'm old school.

I went to whole whole camp for years. I mean, for years, I heard Sloan Park is just the jewel of

the spring. I'm very, very excited. Yeah, like Luke said, there's we have three games recovering.

There's a bull's game as a golf trip. There's but to meet and greet the stuff. And basically,

I am going, I don't know about you guys. I am going just to hang out with whoever's there,

whoever wants to hang out and just talk. Cubs 24 seven. Yeah, that's the idea. We're just going

to games. We're going to do happy hours. We're going to do some live appearance stuff. We're

going to hang out and maybe barbell brings some turkey meatballs. This is something. I know you

guys are into the destiny stuff. You're into, you know, reading the stones and the stars and all

those things. Let me tell you something that Ron says sounds like a blast where you got to go,

Ron. Let's go Ron. Here it is. The last time I was at Sloan Park was, don't say it. Don't say it.

2016. 2016. No, see? Dundial. Dundial. We're winning the World Series. It's been your

anniversary. It's been 10 years since I went to Sloan Park. And I, you know, I never really,

I've never been as like just pretty much a fan. Yeah. Right. Right. You're a media guy for a

lot of time. But the last time I went, yeah, was 2016. And then after I was like, I'm good,

I don't know any other spring training. And now I'm like, wait a minute. Is this destiny?

Sounds like it. I'm just saying. I get all the credit. So we're talking about a lot of stuff

today. We're talking about picture zips and speaking of picture zips and possible trades and

stuff like that. Edward Cabrera. I feel like he's the acquisition we completely forget about.

Right. That shows you how good the winter has been though. If you're forgetting about

Edgar Cabrera, he's just kind of like the other move they made. Yeah. Well, it's one of those

fun things, too, where it's like if the Cubs offseason was like the prices, right? And like,

you win the showcase. Edward Cabrera is like winning the showcase. But that's it. It's a new car,

name Alex Breggman. Like Alex Breggman news came down so fast. Yeah. We were in the thick also

of a bear season. The city was really electric and on fire. And I think Breggman is the headliner,

right? The true headliner of the offseason. But yeah, we've kind of forgotten a little bit about

Edward Cabrera. Maybe because one, we don't know what's on about him. Maybe as a picture and

B, we don't know what his ceiling can be. And I think that's what we're going to talk about here,

because I think expectations are going to be pretty high for this picture, Justin. I am, listen,

you guys know I'm an optimist. I am putting all my chips in on a two headed monster of

Cade Horton and Edward Cabrera. I just think the two young guns, because the best part about this

trade is we don't have them for like a year, not a year and a half. We have this due for three

more years and Cade Horton for, I don't know how many years ago, a million. So like this two

headed monster of Cade Horton and Edward Cabrera potentially could be three years minimum. And if

they both live up to the hype, it's a pretty good two headed monster. So that's your two headed

monster. It's funny because yesterday, Joey and I were talking about pairing. We were looking at

the zips a little bit, which we continue again today. And we were saying, would you take this two,

or would you take this two? And I was saying, Boyd and Horton. Okay. Now you're saying Cabrera and

Horton. I'm saying Cabrera and Horton. Yes. Would anybody say Shota and Horton, or Shota and,

or would somebody throw Justin's deal? He's a wild card for me. But you understand what I'm saying,

like at the end of the season, who will be the two that you clearly say? That's my one two punch.

And it's not for sure. The question here would be, and again, because I'm the optimist,

if I asked you guys the question of who are the two pictures that had the highest potential,

would you agree it's Horton and Cabrera? Right. So in terms of potential moving forward,

yeah, I think high is the highest ceiling. I think it's definitely Horton by far. We've got the

age. We've got the control. I just burst onto the scene. And frankly, like his medical history,

which he's had a couple of injuries, he needs to finish this season healthy is in a better shape

than Edward Cabrera is right now. What I love about Edward Cabrera though, when you talk about

that potential is, because it is February a little bit, let's just try and flip it into what the

opposition thinks when they face the Cubs. And if Edward Cabrera is healthy, and if they can figure

out a way to kind of get that fastball, sort it out a little bit to pair with that still dynamite

change up, that really nasty sinker. If they can get that figured out, and he becomes a 30-start

pitcher and a guy that let's just pretend for a second, we're talking ceiling here. A guy that

averages somewhere between 5.8 to whatever 6.16.2 innings per start. As an opposing team,

I think facing Edward Cabrera could be an absolute nightmare, right? And when you talk about that

one, two punch, right? And I think when we were talking about the playoffs, we were like,

Kate Horton is kind of the ace up to sleeve when you walk into a playoffs series. If you get

to have Horton and Cabrera both firing on all cylinders, Luke, all of a sudden, you know,

that's Sloan Park. You going to Sloan Park might be a pretty good idea, might be a pretty good

idea to go to Sloan Park this year. I see Corey Seacrest saying what I think we're all

in agreement on, whatever steel can bring after his rehabs will be gravy. But isn't it funny

that we're sitting here, and I don't know for right or not, because

you could be underestimating Justin's steel greatly. Like, I know we're not, but we are in that

we're not putting him in this top two. Steel is a one, two type guy. Yeah.

Shota has been one of the better pitchers in baseball for one and a half years. Yeah, true.

Boyd was just an all-star. Like, oh, by the way, James and Tyon, two of the biggest

postseason games in Cubs history. I mean, he was, we could be underestimating all four of them.

So that's what makes the conversation intriguing, right? Is it isn't so much like we did the

potential thing. Now, let's do who do you today, February 3rd have the most trust in?

I don't think that's why I can say it's Horton and it's Boyd. That's I trust. I trust today.

If I had to put my money on it, these will be the two. I have to take someone

like Boyd over Cabrera at least for now, right? And that's and that's a bit of the gambler that

can see with Edward Cabrera, right? Is that like, I don't know if I can sit here and say that

I trust him the most out of our five in the rotation. But if he proves it, the proof of that

concept, the rewards are innumerable. Well, you get endless. That's where we're sitting now. You

gave up on Casey. It's a high risk, high reward situation, right? Case is good player. He could

be a star in Florida. Go ahead. But Edward Cabrera, a high reward is very, very high with him.

Tantal, I mean, his change up in the 90s and he said, so I saw a quote that said he could throw

it 98. And I'm like, why would you want to throw a change of 98? But like, awesome. I'm glad that

you wanted it. Like this dude has tools on tools on tools. But that's a very good question about

who I trust as of today the most. Kate Horton is number one for me because I think we're not

talking about a small sample size. Kate Horton for a long time was one of the, if not the best

picture in baseball last year, right? So for me, he's one of them. Now, you said Matthew Boyd,

all star first half, he kind of faded a bit. Who was your answer for the trust? The second trust?

Well, so Horton Boyd, I trust the most. Horton Boyd. And I think maybe James and Tantal

in the trust tree right now. And maybe he's number three for me. So my answer was Horton

and then James and Tantal because Tantal is like this like sleeping giant. Like we call him Mr.

or what? Mr. Quality Start, right? He's going to give you six innings, probably two runs,

three runs, whatever. And and and keep your team in a ball game every single time he pitches.

And again, I'll go back to post season where he pitched two elimination games for us and was

nails on both of them. So if we're doing trust as of today, I would do Horton and and Jamal.

I have great excitement level for watching Cabrera in the spring and in the season.

Chef Kevin says if Cabrera stays healthy and that's a big one. And I don't trust the more we

the longer we sit here and talk about this, I wonder if I should be pushing steel ahead of Cabrera.

Listen, they're both they both have injuries. One one has already come back from Tommy John and

I know as an absolute bulldog. I don't know enough about Cabrera other than his stuff and the

does change up could be 98 and his fastball can do this. But can he stay healthy? Can we figure out

the fastball? Those are bigger questions just in steel if he's healthy. Now big question but

still it's like we know what steel can do. And I'm not worried about his stuff. So maybe I'm

underestimating I do have this slight fear that the Cabrera thing might not work out. Now I don't

want that to be true. I think this high ceiling is really great. Who is the guy that they got

from the Rockies and they forced out? Tyler Chatwood. Tyler Chatwood. I don't I don't think we're going

that far in that direction, right? But keep in mind that when we just talked about the prospects

and the prospect list came out. Oh and Casey wasn't there were a lot of prospects just in the

division way higher than Owen Casey. So while he might be a good player. Yeah. Let's not go crazy

and overvalue what we gave. There's some flaws coming to us with Cabrera too. I love that.

Jumer's comment right there. Tommy Hadovi is going to make Cabrera an ace. That's another thing.

The Cubs pitching infrastructure is actually really really good. So you have a guy with high upside

and tons of talent and now you get Tommy Hadovi's hands all over him. I just I mean I love that

comment. I could see it now. Luke, you're not wrong. Could he be a buster? What injuries? Sure.

I hope not. I'm choosing to believe that Horan and Cabrera for years and years to come

are going to be our Cubs to head monster. And I know we're button up on a break here. But just

really quick like maybe something to go into the break. Like ask yourself the question. If you got

25 really high quality starts from Edward Cabrera, would you be happy with it? It would be close to

his career high if not his career high. But that also means that there'd be seven starts that someone

else would have to cover. Yeah. Which why we always talk about the importance of depth on this

rotation. Would you take 25 from Cabrera or would that disappoint and frustrate you? And then the

only one before we go to the break is Mohawk to kid. You already flashed Sarah, but it was awesome.

He just asked, do we have a CHGO Bears, CHGO Bulls and CHGO Cubs all going on at the same time?

Wow. I agree, my friend. Wow. That's what we do. Emergency pods. All the content for Chicago

sports all day long. That's what we're all about. And finally, one more comment here on the board.

I see that Corey Seacrest has called me Denero. And that's not the first time I've heard that.

That's all I'll say. I see that. Okay. Coming up next on the CHGO Cubs podcast with a red

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Back on the CHGO Cubs podcast, we're talking more about zips. We're talking about pitching. We

were talking about Cabrera's ceiling. I guess my final thought on that is if there is a ceiling,

well, ceiling would be he's in the Sion conversation. That's that's the ceiling.

What's the reality or more likely to happen? I'd like him to be at least a tour of three.

Yeah. I think that for me, like Kate Horton is still like the guy that is going to lead this

franchise. I hope to his next world series. But I think Cabrera in my perfect world

is going to be a great number two for at least three years for us.

So let me get asked you guys this. Let's get into the zips projections on Edward Cabrera.

Let's just leave it like this. Would you take the following numbers?

Record of eight and six, a 3.88 ERA, 130 innings pitched, 9.6 K per nine, and

3.5 walks per nine innings, obviously with a fit, with a fit point that's at 3.99.

So really not that far off from what his projected ERA would be. Which part of those numbers would

you push back against that you think would maybe you'd like to see a little bit more from her?

Would you take those numbers from Edward Cabrera? I'm going to go old school and the record,

the overall record I would need it to be higher because of the fact of like I think this is a

really good team. And I think that offensively we're also very good defensively we're phenomenal

which I think is going to help Cabrera in the long run are our go-go defense around the diamond.

So, you know, I know you don't judge a pitcher by his record, but that being said,

if he went eight and eight this year, I would not feel great about it. I need him to go like,

you know, eight and eight ways. I need him to go like out of that out of those starts 12 and four

to be like, yeah, let's go, you know, like, again, I know you can't judge a pitcher by that,

but still I think our defense and our offense is going to lead to greater success for Grover here.

The one thing I want to see out of him is number one, strikeouts. I don't know if they actually

zip project how many strikeouts for a guy in a season. They protect him. 130 innings isn't a time.

It's not. Well, he would lead the team with the 25.6 K-ray, which is 25% is elite above average,

something that the Chicago Cubs have not had for several years. So, I like that. And then

I would like the ERA to certainly be below four. 3.88, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Could I get it down to

three, three, five, three, two, three, five? Now, now we're talking about something strikeouts with

an ERA that's three, two, three, four, three, five. Yeah. That's what I'd like to see in year one.

Because that shows me they found something and it's more consistent. And I would like to see the

wins and losses too. But those two things for me would equal probably more wins. And I'll be honest

with you. The one number that I would take out of all this is the 130 innings. Really? I really

would. I mean, I know that's a little bit on the lower side. That's probably in the range of

22 to 24 starts anywhere between five to six innings per start. But just with his history, Luke,

and man, we've we've we've talked about on the show, man, it's been elbow sprain and shoulder

impingement. There's a lot going on with this guy. Just to keep him upright for 20 to 24 starts.

And most importantly, Justin, he's healthy at the end of the year in September and October.

The 130 innings, I kind of would take all day and anything over that I think is a bonus.

I'm with you on the on the eight and six record. You know, we did some zips projections yesterday.

And I drove home and I was thinking to like, these are analytic models that are based on league

average results and a lot of different trends, whether it's age or past performance.

I think with the wins and losses on this one, they seem to be fairly conservative because two,

I want to believe as a Cubs fan that a lot of these wins, a couple extra are going to come each

year from the Cubs playing great defense and saving some outs. And also when you make these

projections, you also can't necessarily like predict the day when let's say a guy gives a four runs

with the Cubs score nine, the days when the offense carries the day. That's why I always feel like

it's a little conservative, but yeah, those 130 innings. I signed me up. Well, you know,

take it to piggyback that we currently have a really good top five starting rotation.

And then we have Justin Steele, who's rehabbing, right? And there are still tons of reports that we're

in on gallon. So like, you know, the thing about it is is keeping these guys healthy. Steele

come back from injury, boy, pitching way more innings last year, you ever did. Horton also

ramping up the innings, Kerbera. And so maybe it makes sense where the 130 some innings,

I don't really care about that because it's important what happens October 1st. And if my prediction

of the two head of monster comes of fruition, I want a healthy two head of monster going in

October versus somebody who pitched 175 innings and his arms dragon, right? Yes. Yeah. Six man rotation

Craig. I hear you. He also still wants scuba. Listen, if somebody, if I had a conversation,

and I could say, okay, Kerbera, while it loved the upside, if they said Kerbera, Shaw, Wiggins,

and Jefferson, Rojas, and maybe another player for scuba. And I knew I could resign scuba. I would do

that in a millisecond. I would do it. I would. I think of all the discourse that we've had.

That's the craziest thing. No, I know I was going to say it's not it's not wild thought Wednesday.

Yeah. No, no, this is no, I'm going to say it's true Tuesday. And I feel like I read a lot of

like stuff in the Cubs ecosystem, whether it is Twitter or the internet, I think you're the

first person though that says Edward Kerbera can also bise a piece. Yeah. If he puts together

evil, look at it. Oh, let's play it out for a second. If he puts together just dynamite first

half and his ERA is like 2.4. He's in the all-star game. He's everything that we thought he was

and more. And like you keep bringing up so rightly that he's cost controlled, doesn't cost a lot.

He's got some arbitration years ahead. And you sell while the getting's good. And you turn. But

yeah. And you turn it into you turn it into a true monster scuba. Yes, it would be like it

be like for a scuba. That's an intriguing thing. And that's what part of the fun is with this

Cubs team right now is because they got a lot of different pieces. The other part about it is

when you create this kind of depth, you can get a little flexible with some of that stuff. You

can get creative. You can push the envelope on some things and maybe some guys end up in deals

that you didn't really think. Kind of like if you have like a Nico Horner and a Matt Shaw.

Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like that. 100% right? Or it's like no. You can start to kind of choose.

And Boston's like people pop would be. Controlable young pitching with huge upside. Yeah.

That's great value to somebody. And at the very least like you're not you're not leveraged.

You're not overly leveraged where like you said like Nico and Shaw the Cubs don't have to do

any not at all. They really don't. I prefer they don't. But I would prefer that too. But in this

case, I think they're maybe sitting there and saying, okay, Boston blow us away. Yeah.

If you want them, this is going to hurt. It's going to hurt really, really bad. What are you

preparing to do and make it make it tough for us because we don't want to do it. If you want

to make it happen, you got to really blow us over with a deal. And that's where they're saying good

for the Cubs. And Boston has been back into a corner because all their other options are kind of gone.

I mean, we'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there because you're right.

There is there might be a little something going on. Who else is getting zipped respect from

zips here in the rotation? Now, you know, the zips pitchers. So the one that I think they're

totally underestimating the Cubs rotation. So the one that I think was interesting.

Now the ERA might not jump out at you. But the zips likes show to Imanaga to bounce back.

Yeah. So we just said that in the chat. A little bit back. And Daniel steamer feels a little

similar to it as well. Eight and seven record. Again, I'm not going to make too much about the

records. Sometimes they got all the Cubs pitcher winning eight games. Okay. So whatever. We'll see

what happens. ERA of 3.96, not great, but 136 innings pitched. And the part that I found interesting

was they did have his cape or nine rate going back up to 8.3. And at a 22.46 percentage,

which would definitely be one of the leaders on the team on par with like Justin Steele and higher

than Kate Horton. So when you look at what happened to Shota and how his season ended,

sometimes you would think an analytic model would say this guy is toast. This guy is cooked.

The zips projections in this moment don't seem to believe that. And this is one of those moments

where I and I tend to agree with the robot on this one. I do think Shota is going to return

to form in a way that maybe isn't necessarily the all star that was the first half of his first year

of his contract. But I think he's going to be a really solid pitcher and give us a really great

effort. I don't think we're going to see the Shota that was in September of last year. And hopefully

he gets back to that extension. Hopefully on his pitches. Hopefully his hamstring is healthy.

And and I'm all for it. So they seem to like Shota right now. When we put together our traditional

CHGO, this is the starting five or starting six. How do we want to do it? And you go, okay,

generally the ace is one, two, three. And you just kind of go and order by who's good. Let's go

that way, right? And while Craig council says he just wants out getters, I would say we would all,

I could be wrong. You tell me if I'm wrong, we would all put Cabrera ahead of Shota. I would,

yes. Now I ask you the question. You're all of the money you have in your pocket is on the

line who will have a better season in 26 Cabrera or Shota. I think you're only talking about

injury history at that point because it's like Cabrera, I think if fully healthy,

beat Shota. But will he be fully healthy? That's that that's the middle because then Shota will

have the better year, right? It's it's it's that back and forthness. What I don't like about the

zips that you said about Shota were his innings. I don't want Shota to do 130 innings or whatever that

was. Yeah. Like Cabrera, there's a reason there of injury history. Shota, his injury was leg,

it was a leg thing. Right. So I expect him to be fully healthy this year. And if he's only

giving you 130 innings, someone wrong, I feel if he's if he's fully healthy and you believe

what I do, which is that leg and that injury had a lot to do with the second half and the playoffs,

then I don't know why anybody would put their money on Cabrera to have a better season.

Then Shota, because the injury thing shows you that Cabrera might not be able to stay healthy.

He may have better stuff, but is he actually accomplished more than Shota imanaga the last two years

when Shota's been healthy? And I really need that $12.75 in my pocket. That's all I got. I can see it.

Push comes to shove I'm putting all my money on which guy I'll have a better season and my all

of my whole family depends on this. Well, the safer bet is Shota better show us the thing is

you're in Vegas. The safer bet is Shota imanaga. Now you want to make bank back on your return.

What are the odds on it? It's Edward Cabrera. You know, I'm saying you want to make some major

money coming back, but you're right. The safer bet is Shota imanaga for sure. I don't know.

I think it's okay to just be cautiously optimistic about Edward Cabrera. I am.

I am. I'm. Yeah. As you should look at all those guys in that list and I'm telling you of all

the guys that watch and spring training, I can't wait to see him on the mound and I can't wait

to see that first change up explode out of his hand and completely mystify an opposing hitter.

But at the same time, I'm just there's something about it that I'm protecting my heart and just

sort of preparing myself that like if Cabrera if Cabrera goes down and it's like he'll be out

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show going the seasons over its sunk because they lost Edward Cabrera. I think the cubs have

prepared for possibly that scenario. I personally I'm not going to I don't want to flip out if that

happens because it's not and I told you so, but it's a little bit indicative of what his past

career is like, but I hope it doesn't happen. Of course. All right. We're going to talk about those

possibilities with the Red Sox when we come back on the CHGO Cubs podcast. Starting the month

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the Cardinals have traded Brendan Donovan to the Mariners and it was a three team deal yesterday

in the last three months. The St. Louis Cardinals are biggest rival supposedly.

They have traded Brendan Donovan, Wilson Contreras, Nolan Aranato and Sonny Gray.

I feel so bad for the best fans in baseball. Yeah. What a quote by the way. Getting exactly what they

deserve. Right. Which is a massive rebuild and hopefully dead last by many, many games in the

division this year. That's great. Just by itself, that's beautiful news. I love to hear it.

The question is, will the Red Sox now be forced to overpay big time to acquire Matt Shaw or

Niko, which is what you touched on? Yeah. I mean, Dale, there's a lot of smoke here to not be

fire in my personal opinion, right? Early on, I thought it was more of a Niko thing once they got

pregnant. I'm just kind of starting to turn a little bit. It just feels like Matt Shaw might be

the guy that gets moved. I personally don't really want that without a Niko Horner extension we've

gone over to before. If you sign Niko for five years, fine. Trade Shaw for that stud pitcher in

Boston. Fine. But for me, Matt Shaw is like the next Niko Horner. If Niko were to leave the

free agency. So I would hate to get rid of Matt Shaw. I think this obviously is a bigger power

upside. But but that being said, his name keeps getting floated out there. And Boston is clearly

looking for help in the infield. And all their options. Swarrows is gone. Donovan is now gone.

I mean, Breggman is gone. Like you said, I mean, it's kind of like at this point, Matt Shaw or

Niko Horner or bust. And it feels like it's more of a Matt Shaw thing than an Niko thing. Yeah. And

in terms of the trade with Brennan Donovan, good news for the Seattle Mariners, right? They trade

their number seven and number 12 prospect from a system that I believe is in the top half of farm

systems cross-baseball. So it's a pretty good haul for the Cardinals to see what happens with

prospects. But yeah, if I'm in the Cubs position, I mean, look, I'm I want Connolly early,

and I want someone else in your top five system. I mean, literally like, you know, we were doing

this last year pitching process. Yeah, yeah. We're doing the like, you know, the Cubs to God and

get McKenzie Gore McKenzie Gore McKenzie Gore. And then you're hearing back that what the

nationals wanted was Kate Horton match up like this. Like the Cubs should be able to set their

menu. Right. Of what they want for the services of Matt Shaw. And again, they own all the leverage

in this situation. It's going to have to come down to the Red Sox absolutely blowing away the Cubs.

I don't I don't necessarily want us to trade Matt Shaw. I think in terms of the here and now,

one, I clearly think he can help us on the Major League roster this year. At third base,

at shortstop, right field left field. I mean, there's a lot of different ways Matt Shaw can

help this team. The other part about is if Matt Shaw can progress offensively this year, he

provides you the flexibility and optionality to stick into left field or right field. If you don't

think you had the financial incentive to bring back Sayah and Ian Hap, he's a great fallback plan

all of a sudden, even maybe at second base, if you don't want to resign Horner. So he's a great plan

B for 27, 28 and beyond. So as much as I want to believe, and then the other part about it is

real quick, if he pans out too, his value just goes up even more. If he doesn't pan out, maybe you

miss an opportunity to cash in on a gold mine. So look, I'm not rooting for it. And I don't think

the Cubs have any real momentum to get it done themselves. This is all going to come down to the

Boston Red Sox doing something stupid, which they have done from time to time the last couple of

years. So let's see how it plays out. I think they do. I believe it. I believe it. He did.

Now thank you come back and trade us mooky bets for Matt Shaw.

That done. One more thing Joey about that too is not only can Matt Shaw be your, you know,

there's two sides of it. Matt Shaw can really help this year. And then he also could be your

insurance for next year at second or the corner of those spots. That being said,

we're losing a lot of our rotation at the end of this year. So trading him to get Boston's

big time picture prospect for the rotation for next year also helps you because then,

you know, you have Horton, Cabrera, steel next year. And I believe that's it is in Jamo and

void both gone. Yeah. So it's that you can kind of replenish your pitching with the trade of

Matt Shaw. So there's both there's two sides of it. Yeah. And my only my only counter to that really

quick is I'm just kind of curious that if if Connolly early and everyone, you know, this is the number

four prospect and everyone thinks he could be a member rotation starter, whatever, that's fine.

If the Boston Red Sucks were so high on this guy and Paulie and all the other guys,

why the hell did they go out and trade for sunny gray and sign Ranger Swars in the offseason?

If these guys were on the doorstep and ready to rock and roll, that part kind of conflicts with

me just a little bit. I'm not saying that these are bad players or maybe bad investments of giving

it a shot of bringing in a guy like Connolly early. I just don't know how close he is to like

helping a majorly team right off the bat. Okay. I think I'm more into it than you guys are.

Tell me what because number one early wouldn't have to even be part of this rotation this year.

I don't need them to be good. We built such depth in the rotation that you could still sign

Zach Allen. You don't even have to think about that guy. Go work on everything you need to work

on a trip away. You're not coming to the majors this year unless you are just destroying it

in the minor leagues. And I'm not sure trading. I'm about winning now, right? Sam. But I don't know

that trading mat Shaw tears down that plan. Are there players that I would say, man, you don't

want to do that? Yeah. I still feel like trading Nico sort of does that more than trading Shaw does.

We don't really know what Shaw is yet. He's still basically a prospect on top prospect.

But would he be ranked higher than early? What if you could do what Craig is sending? They go

crazy and they give you early and Durand. Now wait a minute. Durand's a guy that can help me

this year. And early is a guy that can help me in the future. And I might have to replace mat Shaw.

But I'm still hanging on to Conrad. I'm still hanging on to other guys in my system, right?

And Scott Kingery might make this team. I'm not you might be able to acquire someone

still even at the deadline if you needed somebody to replicate what mat Shaw might be able to give

you in his second season in the big leagues. But if you can find yourself a guy that you think might

be like a crochet or even like steps down from that or two pitching prospects. And still compete

just as easily this year. You're talking about giving up a guy that is your extra infield or

outfielder. High upside. But also nobody's saying like future Hall of Famer. And there might not

be baseball early on next season, which is even more time for that young pitcher to keep working

on his craft. And all of a sudden he takes the replace of Tyrone or he takes the replace of whoever

he might be looking at. If the Red Sox are willing to do something stupid, I'm happy to accept that.

If it's a dumb deal on the other side and we are getting, I mean, the Jed Hoyer, you're right,

is in a great position. I don't have to trade match. I don't want to trade match. Blow me away

and maybe we have a deal. My flip side of that is is I look at match. Shaw as being kind of like

the 2016 Ben Zobris league can play anywhere. He showed you high praise. It is high praise. But he

showed you his defense is stellar. I mean, he was a goal glove caliber third base. We all saw that,

right? And then I know he was overmatched offensively in the playoffs. I hope that really let a

fire under him. But you saw, you know, a couple months span offensively. There was a real upside

there. You saw some power. You saw some great swings. You saw some, I mean, this is a guy that I'm

really, really high on. And so I probably more high on him than you are, Luke, because I do feel like

he makes this year's team better because he can spell everybody. He could spell a pregnant,

I mean, just going off of the lefty righty starter we're facing. If you're facing a lefty,

Moe baller goes at a bench. Breggman goes to D.H. and Shaw starts. That's great. You know what I'm

saying? And I mean, listen, Ian, we people love him. But like, you know, what if he falters at some

point, you could put match on left field. I'm sure he could be a great defender over there. He seems

to be like a Swiss army knife that I am. I do think makes this year seem better. That being said,

he's not untouchable. Blow me away. And I'll be happy. Yeah, that's, that's the, that's the bottom

line. Right. If it's a seven and a 12 for Brendan Donovan, I know farm systems aren't all created

equal. I want a top five guy, which would be early. And I need another top 10 guy. Are you

going to mean like somebody like Durant? It's got to hurt. They're really, yeah, they're really,

yeah, Durant, honestly, Durant, Durant, Durant, Dumber things. Durant's pretty intriguing too as well.

But again, we would have some infill things to sort of figure out. But that's a problem for,

you know what I mean? That's problem for those pockets. If they're going to do something stupid,

though, do we all agree? I'd rather have them do something stupid for Shaw instead of something

stupid for what might be one year of Nico because I say it. No, because I think, I think if you make

that trade for Shaw, the contract extensions for Nico are done. You make it. Whatever Nico wants,

you've decided. Nico's our second basement. And we don't have to worry about that. We're locking

down Nico. I would, I'm not as excited about the trade for Nico. Even though he only has one year

on his deal, I just don't know if I fully buy in on the Matt Shaw experience yet because of what

I saw at the end and what I saw at the beginning. It's fair. But I said all along that I would be

okay with trading match-up with the Nico Horner extension. And that's what would make me feel

like warm and fuzzy at night if we had Nico for years. And then you get the trade match-off for

for earlier, whatever. I would feel good about that. Trading match-up without a Nico Horner extension,

I don't love that. Yeah, and it gets a little confusing too as well. Just like, I don't know,

like Boston clearly graduated Christian Campbell last year. He struggled. He went back down to

the minors. They love Marcelo Meyer who's one of their top prospects to as well. He's a middle

infielder. What is the trust and confidence level there? The part that I can't kind of really

wrap my head around is I don't see Nico Horner and Boston personally because I think they already

got those two guys there. I think they'd be more interested in match-up. I may be possibly

parting with the Durand Durant because he's not hungry like the wolf, but also match-up.

Match-up can play the outfield. You know what I mean? Like, there's something like that.

Yes, Craig. Good to spray. Craig says, yeah, get this spray. Just compared

Shaul with Ben Zobrist. Shake him ahead. You didn't, you used the two names next to each other,

but if Matt Shaul is Ben Zobrist, then I wouldn't be talking about these conversations.

And Craig, to clarify, and you can go back and watch this tape. I said, from a standpoint of he

could fit in all these different positions. That's very Zobrist-like. And then Mohawkid,

kind of on my side here, I think Matt Shaul low is Ben Zobrist, and he's high is Alex Breggman

in terms of talent. Guys, I think we're limiting Matt Shaul's ceiling because he was a top

prospect and we don't know what he, we don't know what his potential, we don't know what his max is

yet. And I'm very, very hesitant to get rid of that. But again, blow me away and I'll do it.

I think we're disrespecting the World Series MVP coming up next on the CHG O'Cubbs podcast.

More Cubs talk. It's Cubs over everything. Hey, Winter is here. And despite what that little

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They have locations across 11 different places in the Chicago land area or go to the original

and check out hooters.com today. Back on the CHGO Cubs podcast, it is time for our game day

prospect dive. Better father, better husband, better man, go to game day, men's health, visit game

day, CHGO.com to find locations closest to you. Here's our game day, men's health, deep prospect

dive. It appears that Kevin El Contra, most likely, I don't even know if I can say that,

is your fourth outfielder. I still consider him a prospect. I don't see him on any of the 100 lists

anymore. He's appeared at the big league level. It hasn't been spectacular. They traded Casey,

so he's the one that's left. He's a better outfielder defensively than Owen Casey was.

I ask you this question. This guy or this guy? Will Kevin El Contra be the number four outfielder

for the Cubs this year to start the season? Or Dylan Carlson, who I saw photos of from

Rich Beaster fell in Arizona? Or is Matt Shaw the fourth outfielder? Or is it Scott Kingery?

Which of those four guys is actually the fourth outfielder? Somebody there is not in this mix.

Two of those guys are probably not in the mix. El Contra Carlson.

I don't know. I don't either, because they're both former top prospects.

I would love the fourth outfielder to be Kevin El Contra. I feel like that he was a top prospect

for a while. Listen, you can say he didn't do great, but he didn't really get a chance at the

MLB level. I mean, I didn't really see him a lot. I do love that he get back up center field.

Listen, PCA. I fully expect to play a hundred susu games, but he's never know.

And it'd be good to have an actual center field. They're backing him up. He's a better defender.

I do love that, because say I Suzuki isn't the best defender. So if you're winning 3-1 and the

eighth or ninth inning, Kevin goes out there, right? So I do like that. The Dylan Carlson thing

really intrigues me because he was a former top prospect for the Cardinals. They wouldn't trade

him for one solo. But I never want to get rid of Matt. I never want to give up on top

prospects, because don't forget Jake Arrietta was top prospect. And he failed miserably with the

Orioles and a little really dust on him. And he became a Hall of Famer for three years. So I never

want to give up on that pedigree. But that's going to be a good competition. I personally, because

we got him for Rizzo. It made me feel like we got something for Rizzo.

I like for Kevin. I can't hard to be the fourth outfielder. And that just means he had a great

spring. And he deserved it as well. Yeah, I'm in agreement with you. I think that's the best case

scenario. A guy that's already in house. A guy that can play back up center field. A guy that can

run the base as well. And a guy that we've that we've liked or at one point or another projected to

have some sort of offensive something that seems to have kind of petered out. And he's had a

couple of good spring trainings, but clearly just at the major league level, he's got an option left.

And that's the thing we need. Yeah, they negotiated an option with him. So here's from

Patrick Norton was helping us out with this before from my understanding and chat. You can

tell me if I'm correct. Yeah, I'm talking about you, Patty Noritz. Yeah, hot honey buns.

What I'm we understand is that Dylan Carlson does not have an option in his contract.

He can also decide to opt out of a Cubs contract at any point in spring training.

Okay. If it isn't going to work out for him, though, like it goes somewhere, try and hook on

somewhere else and find a job. Chaz McCormick has optionality in his contract. So he could possibly

be a guy that can go down to AAA. That kind of gives him an inside track a little bit with Dylan

Carlson, just in my opinion, because McCormick is a guy that maybe can go down to AAA and just

provide depth for you. We're seeing people in the chat here asking, what about Mike talk?

Now here's the only thing about Mike talking, watching enough white socks baseball last year.

I sure did. I produced the white sock show with Sean Anderson last year. Here's what I will tell you.

Mike talkman still provides you an incredibly professional at bat. He's a guy that's going to get

he's going to he's got he's got you're not going to get cheated. It's going to be great. It's still

the solid Mike talkman that you would expect offensively and he lives in Arlington Heights. The only

problem was his lower half was pretty cooked last year. Yeah, he couldn't like run, right? He had

quad problems. He had hamstring problems. He didn't really play the outfit. We're not asking him to

do it every day. No, we're not asking him to do it every day. But I am asking him to kind of

like jog into the corner and ride field and fishable out of there if necessary to possibly get to

the third. The job of this fourth outfit there will also be a defensive replacement. Right. I need

someone with his legs on a game against the Cardinals. He's jumping over the wall. How many you two three

years ago, he was like, what's the baseball? I even saw that he was limping around. And then the

only and then the I'm not I'm not upset about the only other part about it too is you just have to

think like where does he fit into the mix as a left handed hitter, right? When there are left

handers on the mound, you're going to want say a Suzuki in there. Right. You know, Ian Hap is still

a switch hitter. I don't think you're going to necessarily sit PCA down against lefties. They

didn't do it last year. I don't want to see them do that this year. So that's what that's the

part that I'm I'm more curious maybe exploring what a Chasm of Cormick might be able to do as a

fourth outfielder in Kevin, I'll contrary, if he if he can become that guy and just provide us with

a little bit of spark and a little bit of pop off the bench every once in a while. Hit against

lefties. I'm I'm I'm all for that. So I'm definitely rooting for K a in spring training to win that

job. But if Dylan Carlson has a great spring, that's what's going to be fun about it. They're all going

to keep you and even if El Contra has a great spring, wouldn't you put Carlson on the opening

day lineup and stash Al Contara until so explain that you would need until you would need him. He

could stay there all year. Yeah, explain it to me. So you kind of touched on it and then you never

explained it. So there was it was negotiated for Kevin Al Contara to have an extra option in his

contract. Correct. So he was running out of options, I believe. I thought he was done this

years, but I thought there's a way that you can negotiate with the player. Maybe with a pay raise.

Okay. To figure out a way to have one more option. Oh, I think they also did it with Javier

Assad too as well, not too, not too recently. But Dylan Carlson does not have that. He's either

going to be on the team or he's not. They did negotiate that with Chaz McCormick. But no,

yeah, you're right. And that's what's going to be one of the more interesting storylines.

Yeah. Like storylines for spring training is I want to see Edward Cabrera on the bum.

Yeah. Right. You know, of course, you want to see all the stars. You want to see pregnant

in a Cubs universe. But this fourth outfielder spot is going to be intriguing. And frankly,

I want to see what's got King Ray can possibly do. Even if he doesn't make the opening day roster,

someone that you can, as you said, stash at the AAA level while match shop plays all over the

field. And maybe sometimes pitcher and catcher, right? But this is the kind of depth that the Cubs

want to build. So they're throwing a lot of darts at the wall instead of just one, you know,

not I said it before. Then it's not just Matt Caesar, right? They're throwing a bunch of darts at

a couple of different guys. Let's go out there. Let the best man win. Right. And if he earns a job

on the opening day, that means that he's a guy that's already hitting the ball. Keep in mind,

too, as well, just really quick. Tyler Austin can't play the outfield, too. He's not just a first

basement, so he can maybe be a guy to spell in some places, too, as well. This is breaking news.

You're on C.H. You're just a confused people. The bulls have traded Vouch to the Cubs to play

a fourth outfield. There it is. People are looking for that big trade. You can stay here,

because we can talk Vouch. He's going to be the Cubs fourth outfield. Not a good rim protector.

Might not be a good basket protector either. So let's hope for the best. But does he hit left-handed

or right? I don't know. I don't think he hits, you know, just like he doesn't play D. He might be

put on bumps. Okay. Here's my thing with Kevin Elcanto. Have they waited too long on this?

Like to the Cubs actually know that he's a really good minor league player, a four A player,

a four A guy. Like do they know that's his limit? Or do they still believe in the potential that

this guy has star stuff because he's so skilled if he ever puts it all together. Boom. My, my,

I'm worried because I see Brennan Davis. I see Nelson Velasquez. I see Alexander Conario.

Who's second to fold, by the way. He's getting an invite to camp, by the way. Nelson Velasquez.

With who? The Cubs. Yeah. He's back. Alexander Conario, Felix, all these guys that we were told like

just that list of Brennan Davis, Velasquez and Conario weren't we sold on like one of them is

going to be, oh, you got dial field is coming in the future. It might be none. It's starting to

look more and more like none of them will be the future. I want more for you. Brett Jackson.

Brett Jackson. So I mean, here's a deal. Every prospect is different. You can't name me three

that, you know, flamed out because I can come back with PCA, right? I mean, like everybody's

different. So I feel like Kevin Alcantara for me is doesn't matter what Felix P.A. did. He's his

own dude. He has a very great skill set. I don't think he's ever been given a chance to be the guy

yet. So I mean, and also last year, where were you going to put them? I mean, you had you obviously

had Tucker, you had Suzuki, you had, I mean, like PCA came into his own. They cleared a path for

Casey though. They did, but before Kate, but Casey hopped over K, which I think is they did

sometimes how they internally feel. They did. They also traded Casey. So like maybe to clear a path

for Alcantara. I mean, I don't know. I'm just saying like every prospect for me is his own

person. And I would love it if he won the fourth outfield job outright because I feel like we

got some franth in the Rizzo that's been part of this team now. And I just felt like all along,

he had a really good skill set that I want to at least at least see get a chance to, to, to, to,

to, to, can the dude just hit and just be like an Albert Almora ask type of piece on a team that

hopefully wins a lot of games this year. That's my question. You know, yeah. I mean, they were right

about half drafting half. They were right about Shorber in drafting Shorber. So it's not like they

haven't gotten some outfield prospects correct in one way or another, but I would like to see

the next guy in line, right? Can I'll contra a beak have someday? It doesn't seem like he's headed

on that path, right? And when they first got him, it was like, wow, look at this guy. He just looks

like he could be a real major league. But he looks like he could be our daylight crews in the

outfield. Like, right? Like that's what we were, right? That's what we were sort of dreaming of.

Right. And I'm getting fearful now that he could be our Brennan Davis, our Nelson Velasquez,

our Alexander Kanar. Let me ask you a question. So we have had two guys in the corner of the

outfield for the past, what, three, four years, Ian Hap, Sega Suzuki, PCA became a superstar.

He's done a field going nowhere. We traded for Cal Tucker. I just, I do feel like that there

really hasn't been room for Qatar to do anything or even have a showcase. Yes, they brought Casey

up. Maybe they ranked Casey higher than our Qatar. That's fine. But that's mean that our

Qatar is a bad player. So I feel like we've had our corner outfielders for the past three,

four years. We've had our center fielder for a couple of like, there hasn't been a spot open.

You know, when there will be, though, at the end of this year, when you have either Sayah or

Hap or both gone. So I'm not ready to give up yet. That being said, I, for me, the best man win.

So if it's Don Carson, cool. And then Adios K, but I just would love for it to be Kevin.

I also love that competition. I love the case been put on this notice like here. Yes. We've

got three or four guys. One of you is going to get this job. The other guy better start working

on something else. So there's the pressure. There's like five guys. You got to hope that at least

one of them rakes in spring training and just goes out and claims the job. And by the way,

that's part of it for our backup spot. Like it shows you how good our starters are that like,

we're excited about like the fourth outfielder competition. That's how deep this team is.

And I love that. I haven't heard the name gauge tater workman so far. This off scene. Thanks for

check it out. The CHGO Cubs podcast. Justin Tuesday with the Roman. See you next week. Let's do it.

Uh, we're going to talk more Cubs baseball tomorrow. Maybe more zips if you want.

Well, bullpen. Maybe we'll talk about Vouch for those of you that think you're watching the Bulls

podcast right now. I've got younger patience. Younger. And maybe some of you like Bob want to talk

about Mike talkman. We could do that for five minutes if you want. Uh, anyways, thanks for checking

out the podcast. We're back tomorrow. Then don't forget Cory and Brendan with Cubs related on

Thursday. And don't forget to sign up for that big trip. Spring training. Maybe let's do it. March

five. The March eight. Here we go. Until next time. Thanks for watching the podcast. And as always

fly the W. Until next time. Thanks for watching the podcast. And as always fly the W.