What’s the fix for BC Ferries’ recurring breakdowns?

0:00All right, I got a big question. How do you feel about aging? Maybe you got a fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of change? Because certainly, how we look starts to change. The actor Amanda Pied has given it a lot of thought over the years. She's been in the public eye since the 90s. She'll tell you why her new film, Fantasy Life, has her thinking about validation, about vanity, and what she thinks about cosmetic surgery, and whether or not to get it. You'll hear that conversation now. Just search for Q with Tom Power, wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. I really just like to see things brought back to, you know, basic services like it used to be. And you know, you had the ones by my feet. And it was just, you got on your page, you went across, you got off, it just feel like now I go into the lobbies and the gift shops and coffee shops and all that. It's just way too fancy. You don't need it. I haven't traveling back and forth from the mainland to banks of the island since the early 80s. And service has become, has become

1:03increasingly less, less reliable, increasingly more and more expensive. And I really don't know that more scary is the answer. Those were the voices of collars into CBC talking about BC Ferries. Over the Easter long weekend, thousands of travelers were affected by canceled sailings and long lines at terminals right across the South Coast. And while sailings are back to normal now, communities are still looking for answers on what can be done to fix the chronic problem with the service. And that is the focus of today's episode. We're gonna share what we've heard from you and travelers. We're also going to take a closer look at the challenges facing BC Ferries and the potential solutions. I'm Amy Bell, and you're listening to This Is Vank Hooper. Welcome back to This Is Vank Hooper.

2:06It is a gorgeous sunny day outside our Vancouver studios. Today we are talking about the challenges facing BC Ferries. Cancelations and mechanical issues caused headaches for passengers on major routes over the Easter long weekend. BC Ferries has said the ultimate problem comes from running the service with a fleet of aging vessels. And according to John Henderson, the mayor of C-Sheld, his community might not get new vessels until 2038. He's written to the powers that be every six months for years to outline his concerns about that. The great, great percentage of the time is reliable. But when it breaks down, it is catastrophic. And it is catastrophic for people with everything from medical appointments to airplane flights and even things like Easter dinners. So I guess what I'm hearing is,

3:07all we should go to the federal government, we should go elsewhere, we should ask the Ferries to do better. But I think we've got a fundamentally focused on one of the real costs of operating this route. And then it's a separate conversation, figure out how we're going to pay for it. That was the mayor of C-Sheld, John Henderson. And as issues continue plaguing the system, passengers are desperate for a solution. For more on that, the CBC's Gloria MacGarenco spoke to Harmon Bangu. He is the conservative party MLA for Langley, and David's Ferd, as well as the official opposition critic for transportation. Okay, we're coming off a rough weekend. What do you think of what you just heard from the mayor of C-Sheld, John Henderson? I feel for him, you know, when the Tixada Ferries and a lot of the other coastal Ferries go out, this is a vital route for a lot of the folks. It should be treated like a major highway. And a lot of that is due to the federal funding

4:07that lack thereof. But we need someone here that's going to advocate for a lot of this. And that's what I'd like to see the government do and get ahead of these things. And it was nice to see Nicolas Semenas come out and apologize and kind of, you know, take a ride on the chain on that. And he actually confronted, I want to congratulate him. That's what we need more. British Columbians probably felt that a little bit the CEO was out there addressing them and figuring out what went wrong. And another thing that's been lost in this is the ground workers of BC Ferries, how vital they are, especially when there was Ferries that were boarded in the back cars off later last week. And I just got to take my hats off to the workers on the ground. They did a phenomenal job. Well, he mentioned Nicolas Semenas. And I should just point listeners that if they missed the conversation that he had with Stephen Quinn on the early edition this morning, that conversation is posted on our CBC Listen site. So just search out CBC Listen Early Edition. So there are a lot of communities in this part of the province that do rely on Ferries, as you say.

5:07So what do you hear from them, you know, people who live in coastal communities as critic about their concerns right now regarding the ferry system? Their concerns are when there is peak traffic as well like this on Easter long weekend. Then we'll have Christmas time. We'll have other times of the year. We know where four or five major travel points are. The big concern I've had with this whole procurement of the BC Ferries part was, did we think about ahead in 2029 when four vessels are going offline and four less vessels are coming online? Is there a need maybe for another one because the significant capacity upgrades aren't there in the new ones? It's not like they can hold 50, 60 new vehicles more than before. It's not that is not the case. So that is a concern that I've had. And what Eric McNeely has said from the union is retrofit. Was there a plan of putting in money off to a side or, you know, advocating to the federal government? Hey, we need some money for these ferries to run efficiently till the new ones come online.

6:08Is there money that we can get put in here that can help retrofit these vehicles? I mean, the vessels. And that's, we need to come up with solutions. I don't want to just sit here and complain. I want to give ideas and let's try and work with this and accomplish something. So it doesn't matter what political stripe you come from. This is British Columbians major way of traveling and we need to treat it like that from all sides. Well, Nicholas Jimenez did express those same frustrations. He can ask, but he doesn't necessarily receive. Exactly, and you know, he takes a lot of blame on this, but I remember when he was saying, we wanted to sign off on the fairy contract months before, but it was the provincial government that was dragging its feet. So you've got to sympathize with him. And I will say he addressed it, came out the next day and he addressed it and hats off to him. You got to give credit or credits too. You know, the federal government does support BC ferries through an annual grant as you're pointing out and you're saying they should be giving more. The BC transportation minister Mike Farmer says that that support is not equal across Canada,

7:09depending on what cost you're on, right? He told CBC for every dollar that BC gets, the maritime get $300. Just listen to what he had to say with BC today, guest host Dan Burrett. What is your government advocating or what are you doing to try and get the attention of all of Ottawa to say BC ferries needs more help? Well, the treaty has raised this issue on fairness with Ottawa, BC ferries has raised it. I raised it, it's something that we will continue to do. I mean, the reality is is that, you know, that's often so where you guys got the railway. That's in 1885, 141 years ago. The world and the country's changed to significantly since then. British Columbia is, you know, the third largest province where the Pacific Gateway, BC ferries has 25 units. They serve as more than 47 communities, you know, a province of five and a half million people.

8:09They should be some equity. No one's saying don't deal with federal applicants to the marathons, but certainly give British Columbia the same equity would help significantly. Okay, so that was Mike Farmer with the BC transportation minister. You're the transportation critic. What do you see as the federal government's responsibility and role in running of the ferry service here on the west coast? One thing I will say is what Mike said is true. It is true what he said there. And I agree with that. We do need more funding, but the thing is we need to be in a position where we get this funding. It seems to be when we're putting up hiccups, everything the federal government wants to do, which it was with creating the economic corridors with another maybe a pipeline. It's when you can constantly throw wrenches in the plan. You're not going to have a federal government that's willing to work with you on all fronts. So where were the wrenches thrown in? Well, with other projects. And as other situations that the federal government might be want to go ahead on every step of the way, you have to even be pushing back on a lot of it.

9:11Look at the tankers, everything else. They want a government in British Columbia that's going to actually unlock the economic revenue and unlock the markets to global markets in certain ways of other ways. And it does rub off on your dealings in other situations. You're saying because BC is not embracing a pipeline proposal, that is reflected on how much support the federal government gives for the federal government. And David Eby have been button heads on a lot of issues. And that's the thing is they want to have a government here that's actually going to do something for everyone of British Columbia. Getting another pipeline built here is a good thing. It would help. I was just on a trans mountain tour and the capacity's already at over 90%. So in the next few years, we're going to be at 100 capacity, then we're going to be dragging our heels again in every industry. I hear you, but I think we're getting a little off. Now I understand you're trying to say, we've got to show them that we want to work with them if we're going to expect more money from them as well. But let's talk about what the BC Conservatives would do

10:13differently than what the NDP's approach is right now when it comes to BC Ferries. What is your vision for how to support BC Ferries and improve service here in BC? When we can improve services on the new vessels, maybe if we had a large amount of capacity, so when they come online, we are seeing an adage of how many vehicles and people can actually board those vessels. Another issue that we can have done right now is, in the meantime, is put together some serious finding internally for the vessels to get retrofitted, just like the Eric McKinley has been advocating for, so we can make sure they're reliable in times like this. And another issue is, look at how many board of directors are on the BC Ferries. It is out of control. How many are there? How many are there? There's 60. 60? Yeah. Board of directors? Like right there, they have supervisors in very high roles that are getting paid over $150,000 a year. Maybe a minute. Wait a second, the bar. Are you talking about the BC Ferries Board of Directors or are you talking about supervisors with the Ferries system?

11:14So that's different board of directors. It's very, and with the board of directors, they're the ones that manage the BC Ferries CEO and everyone else. But there's not 60 of them. No, not 60 of them. OK. But you did say board of directors. I just want to be clear that, let's not put it. And you're saying there's too much management. You're saying within the system, that's an issue. You would change. And then right now, you have a hand-picked board of pretty much the NDP, Dromic Phil. She was an NDP minister during the Fast Ferries Fiasco. These are the people that are in charge. And when Angela John tried to contact her on the weekend, I'm on holidays. Well, so was I on holidays. But I decided, hey, when the family lets go close by to a pizza shop, and I'll rip over and do a quick video on this, because this is what people want to see. Boots on the ground. People take an action in times of need. Right. Well, you do mention, as well, the whole procurement issue as well. And the federal government has spoken out expressed their disagreement with BC Ferries

12:15decision to buy four fairies from a Chinese shipyard to rebuild the aging fleet. And again, we're not going to see new vessels for many, many years. So what about that decision? How would a BC conservative government here handle the procurement process? Right now, you can't rewind the hands of time. But the situation there was an NDP had told us, we're going to save $1.2 billion of building these vessels in China. Now it's come out. We lost $2.7 billion in spin-off revenue. And we've lost eight to 10,000 jobs. And those jobs would have been good paying jobs. Those would have been jobs that would have kept hope for the youth here that they can actually achieve, get a job, save up some money, buy a home, put down some roots, start a family. That's what British Columbians are looking for. That's what a lot of the youth is looking for. OK. So we're talking about procurement of new fairies. And you would have kept that decision going with the cheaper quote and going with the Chinese builders.

13:16I mean, if you've done something different, why would the hands of time? And just to say if it was a conservative government, we would have probably approached C-SPAN, Davies Shipyard or local shipyards and worked with them and worked out a way that they weren't shut out of a procurement process, like they were during this. There's a cost when you're putting a bid in place. And that's the place where a lot of the local shipyards said, hey, the rules are rigged against us. China has slave labor. They have no industrial carbon tax. There is no way we can compete and actually procure this bid. That was the biggest problem. We need to work with the local ship makers. We have a lot of hardworking people out here. You look at all the workers that got these vessels up and running after being broken down. They're working hard. They know how to build. We can build those vessels right here in BC and provide good paying jobs for British Columbians. OK. That is what the conservative party BC has always advocated for. You know what else is on our radar this week when it comes to the BC conservative party? Leadership race is heating up right now.

14:18You backed Caroline Elliott to be new leader of the party. She's apparently skipping a leadership debate later this week organized by the outlet. Juno News. Just what do you make of the state of the race so far? The state of the race hates healthy. It's good to get a lot of ideas out there. And I like what Caroline Elliott brings to the table. I remember being the vice president of the conservative party BC. She was on the other side. I know she takes a lot of slant from a lot of people being, oh, you're left, you're this. But I know being on a board, you're one person, and you have to persuade others. And despite the fact she's pulled out of the debate this week, you still support her? Yeah, I do support her. Because we have a vent in cloning. I'll be there with her. And it's going to be a great vent out there at the Ramada Windham. OK. Well, thank you very much for coming in today. You're welcome. Thank you for having me on. That was the CBC's Gloria Meca-Renco speaking to Harmon Bangu, the conservative party MLA for Langley Abutsford and the official opposition critic for transportation. Stay with us.

15:18We'll be back with more on this story in just a few moments. Welcome back to this is Vane Cooper. We're talking about the challenges facing BC Ferries today. Many users have encountered fairy cancellations and long waits at the terminals, especially on long weekends. So who should be taking responsibility? Eric Mealy is president of the BC Ferrier Marine Workers Union. He spoke to the CBC's Stephen Quinn about that. Be sure to be fair. All right. I got a big question. How do you feel about aging? Maybe you've got a fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of change. Because certainly how we look starts to change. The actor Amanda Pete has given it a lot of thought over the years. She's been in the public eye since the 90s. She'll tell you why her new film Fantasy Life has her thinking about validation, about vanity, and what she thinks about cosmetic surgery and whether or not to get it.

16:19You'll hear that conversation now. Just search for Q with Tom Power wherever you get your podcast. This has her reputation among local communities for breaking down on long weekends. Was it surprising to you just how many issues came up over this long weekend? You know what? I think it is sort of like clockwork. It seems when you live on the coast or take the ferry that there is a breakdown on or near a long weekend. Is there a surprise? I don't think that there's a problem. I think there was a surprise that there were so many problems running through a spring break period into the Easter weekend. But I think really what people are starting to ask is how is it that revenues are rising and reliability is falling? And what does that look like? And who's really ultimately responsible? Who outlawed and who would you say is ultimately responsible? Well, I think what the way that the ferry system is set up, the accountability becomes a bit convoluted. You know, we hear over the last few days the COBC ferry is saying, you know, the ships are old. We need a new ship.

17:20And you have the Minister of Transportation saying, you know, these are effectively part of the highway system. But the funding isn't the same as the highway system. The accountability structure isn't the same. You know, the highway system isn't run with an authority below there isn't a regulatory overbody, oversight body making determinations and what capital expenditures are. And you know, there's a functional funding model. But that all gets us to the same problem, which is whether or not there was another vessel ordered through the Chinese builds or not. That wouldn't solve the problem that happened this Easter weekend. And if we're looking at explaining a problem, that's one thing. But you know, taking accountability for the lack of planning and the lack of vessel renewal is a little bit different. And I think we've seen sort of both parties BC ferries the operator and service provider. And a problem sort of, you know, throw their hands up and say, well, you know, the system really doesn't work or you know, this is all the funding we can get. And at the end of the day, there's still people waiting

18:22at terminals or board vessels that aren't getting where they need to on time. Well, when we spoke with the CEO of BC ferries, Nicholas Yemen is yesterday. He said that they had asked the government for funding for four new ferries for four larger ships for five rather, and they only got funding for four, which means that they won't ever, you know, have a spare in dock ready to go. Should they experience mechanical issues with a larger vessel? Is it prudent? Is it financially responsible to have a whole ship that's, you know, just waiting there for something else to fail? Well, you know, I think the short version is, it is for the people who are waiting for a ferry. And it's a little more complicated than that, of course, but again, even if there had been five vessels or order from China, that went to solve the problem on tax data, that went to solve the problem in shamanis, and it would only have solved one of the problems off of lower mainland. So, you know, I think it's highlights a challenge

19:22where there's a large amount of people traveling and it gets some media press, but what it doesn't address is the real systemic issues about vessel renewal, fleet renewal, and how about it's funded? And we hear sort of comments about, you know, west coast ferries are funded differently from the federal level, you know, via rail, or what marine Atlantic ferries they have a different funding model. That's true, but, you know, that's been true for more than 20 years. And if we're looking at 10 to 15 year planning in advance for vessel renewal, where is that planning being done? And where is it really, frankly, where is that urgency to address the problems of funding ferries on the west coast for burst plummians? Is there a ship that could be purchased, you know, immediately or purchased a little bit faster just to help out through the summer months? Well, I think, you know, vessel purchases has always been a question mark. BC Ferries has purchased a couple of used vessels in the past, the Northern Sea Wolf, the Northern Adventure. Yeah, just to name a couple.

20:24One of the challenges they have is BC Ferries runs a fairly bespoke operation, although quite large, meaning that they're births or the dock for the ferries to go or design to fit certain vessels. So when you can fit sort of an off the shelf vessel or use vessel in, is something that they have to look at as far as, does it make sense where it's going, especially if there's multiple types of vessels like in Sawasana, where you have multiple routes and different classes of vessel coming in to fit. So I think there's always options. But again, that's addressing the problem that arises over a weekend. When we're looking at problems, you know, these vessels have been getting older every year for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years in some cases. So this isn't a surprise that there need to be vessel renewal. It's a failure to act in a timely way. And then again, I think buying a fifth vessel from China, which is an unusual place to purchase from, buying that fifth vessel would have only addressed some of the problems. And that would still be in 2029, not here in early 2026.

21:25You've talked about the complicated governance system around BC Ferries, and to complicate things further, there are calls for the federal government to contribute to BC Ferries funding, as you just mentioned. I want you to hear what provincial transportation Minister Mike Farnworth had to say when he was speaking with Dan Burrett on Tuesday. How much money is the federal government also providing us, which is not very much when you look at how much they're providing to Ferries on the east coast of the country, the pretty significant difference for every one dollar that we received from Papua, Papua, they're getting $200, that's not equitable in our view, more in the view of BC Ferries. Now to that end, if I remember right, that was the justification for that is because it's written into the Constitution that the federal government has to supply that for the maritime provinces. Regardless, what is your government advocating or what are you doing to try and get the attention all off Ottawa to say BC Ferries needs more help? Well, the between has raised this issue on Farnworth's

22:27with Ottawa, BC Ferries has raised it, I raised it, it's something that we will continue to do. Now, you have also, as we just heard, called for federal investment in the provinces ferry system. How have those conversations gone? Yeah, you know, or you didn't know the raised that issue in advance of the last federal election, and it seemed to get some traction here on the west coast. What we haven't seen, I don't think in a real clear and consistent way, is any urgency from the province over the last 20 plus years since BC Ferries became a quasi-private company to seek a real plan that has investment from the federal government that increases it. Sure, it's written in the Constitution about a minimum amount. That's always possibly changed, it's been changing the past, but that doesn't mean you can't get more funding from the federal government. And I think we see that on all sorts of infrastructure projects on source nation-building projects that there is funding available if the case is made. And it shouldn't be, we're planning for it today.

23:28It's what do we need in 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from now? And I just don't, I haven't seen that urgency from my the BC Ferries or the province in a sort of long-term way. It's nice to point fingers at the federal government and say, hey, they should give us more money. It's nice to point your finger and at the provincial government and say, hey, they should give us more money. But really at the end of the day, as a traveler and as people are working toward the fairies, we want fairies at work. We want fairies that can be repaired and maintained in a functional way. And we want to be able to provide that service. And I think when we're not providing those resources, whether that's from BC Ferries as the employer, the provincial government or the federal government, no one really cares who's doing what or hasn't done anything. It's time to fix it and it's time to get a plan that makes the system work. Because the last 20 years, if they've shown anything, is that the change in the model of governance and the change in the model of funding to be easy fairies hasn't created a more reliable system. It hasn't created a more competitive system, but it has created more frustration. That was the CBC's Stephen Quinn speaking to Eric McNeely,

24:32president of the BC Ferrier Marine Workers Union. And that's it for today's episode. If you like what you heard, please share this podcast with your friends, family, or whoever else you think might be interested. You can also follow us so that you never miss an episode. Simply click the follow button on Spotify, Apple, or whichever platform you get your podcasts. By following us, you will get notified whenever we upload a new episode. Thank you for listening. I'm Amy Bell, and we'll be back tomorrow for a brand new episode with Justin McElroy. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.