What to expect as the Browns return: QB battle, Monken’s system and early roles

Hey, everybody. It's Dan. Welcome to the Ornge Brown Talk podcast.

Mary Kay and Ashley are going to join me here shortly.

We're going to preview the off season program.

Don't hit that skip forward button yet, though, real quick.

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and a follow all that stuff. Okay, let's get you ready for the off season

program here on the Ornge and Brown talk podcast.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Ornge, Brown talk podcast and lobby with Mary Kay

Cabot, Ashley Baskock back with us here as we get ready for the off season

program, getting going. It actually started today as we're recording this on

Tuesday. We will be out there on Wednesday for the first time.

We'll hear from Todd Monkin. We'll hear from some players early afternoon

on Wednesday. So things gearing up. We'll get to watch practice in a few

weeks. So off season program underway. So we'll keep it tight today. Mary Kay,

as we get into this off season program, what are we looking forward to? What are

you most interested in watching? I bet I know the answer and I bet we all kind

of would say the same thing if we were first up here. What are you most

interested in as the off season program gets going? Well, obviously it's the

quarterback competition that's getting underway today. But the important thing

to note that fans might not realize is that they're not on the field really

for the first two weeks of this off season program. This is phase one. And

when we go out there tomorrow for the very first time to talk to Todd Monkin

and the players, we're not actually going to be seeing practice. When I say

that the quarterback competition is kicking off in earnest today, it means

that those guys are going to be in meeting rooms with the coaches and the

installation of the playbook is going to start to happen. And every single

thing that these quarterbacks do is going to be analyzed and scrutinized and

taken down in a notebook and just how they relate to their teammates, how they

study the film, how they pick things up, how they comport themselves in the

building. You name it is all going into the hopper. So they need to be on

their peace and cues starting today. And every single thing will be evaluated.

But we're not going to be out there to actually see anything until the

voluntary mini camp on April 21st. And then the next time we'll see some

things will be during the OTAs, the organized team activities in May. So this

beginning part is really just about these guys getting coached up in the

classroom on the playbook and being able to sort of recite and regurgitate a

little bit about what they're learning and Todd Monk and just pounding this

playbook into their heads. And I think that's what makes this difficult on

our end is this idea of we're following this quarterback competition. And

obviously when you're out there in training camp, we're out there every day.

We're watching two hours of practice every day. Like we're looking at every

throw. We see a lot. We obviously don't see we're not in the building with these

guys, but we see a lot on the practice field. When even when we get a chance

to watch these guys, we're going to watch one of three of these mini camp

practices. We're going to watch three of 10 OTAs. Now, we will get to watch

the entire mandatory mini camp in June. But between that that voluntary mini

camp and the 10 OTA practices, there's 13 practices we're going to see like

four of them. And so Ashley, that makes it hard for us, I think, to really

get a feel for where this thing stands on a day to day basis. So I don't

know. I mean, obviously those days when we're out there are going to be

super important for us to kind of get caught up on, okay, how should

or look? How's to Sean look? How does it feel like they're grasping the

playbook? How are their teammates responding to them? But that's what's

going to also make this difficult is there's just so much that we're not

going to see. And that starts tomorrow. When we just talk to guys in the

media room, we're not going to really see the nuts and bolts of what's going

on at the start of this program. No, we don't. And like Mary K said at

the top, like this oxygen program is so regimented, right? It's all a part

of the CBA and what they can do and when they're allowed to do it. And how

many hours they're allowed to do it. So to me, it's almost just like the

the most obvious reason of why you have to take everything that you see

with a grain of salt, which like I think we've always done a good job of

that and trying to explain it because not only is what we're seeing a small

sample size like Dan said about four practice sessions out of like 12 or

13 during this program, but the other thing is they're not in pads. They're

not hitting no one's game planning for them. It's a lot of routes on air. And

that's what makes it really difficult. And I mean, my first real taste of this

was last year when we didn't quite know obviously what the quarterback

situation was going to be. It was a four way competition. It obviously

dragged on into training camp. So it is interesting. I think from everything

we've heard from Todd Munk and things are going to be run a little bit

differently, but you still have to take what you're seeing with the grain of

salt because it's it's practice, but it's not real football yet by the time

we're out there. So assuming Mary K that this is what we think it's going to be

where should or Sanders kind of starts things off as the number one, which

is what Todd Munk and indicated last week without actually saying it, what

do you think he has to do over these next between now and the middle of

June? What can he do and what does he need to do to kind of separate

himself from the Sean Watson and maybe seize this opportunity that's

there for him? Well, I think the number one thing that he has to do is really

know this playbook inside and out. He has to memorize the plays. He has to

understand the concepts and he's got to get it down as quickly as possible so

that when he is out there that he doesn't have to be thinking all the time and

that he can be playing faster and reacting to situations and things. And so I

think that is the number one key for him is to assimilate the playbook as

quickly as he possibly can. And that's vitally important for

Dishon Watson as well. But the thing about Dishon is that he's had to learn

many many different playbooks over the years. He's been at this since 2017. So when

he sees new terminology, he can usually relate it back to something that he's

already learned or maybe Todd Munkin's offense will be a version of something

that he's already run before. Maybe the terminology will be very similar to

something that he's already run. So he has already a whole huge body of

knowledge of different offensive playbooks and how different coaches go about

those kinds of things and how to modify them. So that's going to be the key

I think is which of these two guys can know this playbook better and

and really prove to Todd Munkin and the offensive staff that they have it

down pat when they're out there on the field. Yeah, you know, at least for Shadour

in the case of obviously Dishon having done this before Shadour coming in now just

in the second year, at least they kind of all get to start from zero here.

You know, last year, obviously, the offensive staff was a little different, but it was

more going back to probably what Dishon would have understood better with Kevin's defense.

He would Joe Flacco understood obviously Dishon was a part of that competition, but had he been,

but Flacco, you know, can he pick a prior to a decent idea of sort of what that offense looked

like because that's always sort of been the style of offense he played. So

Ashley, I think one of the things Shadour has going for him is everybody's kind of starting at zero

here. I think there's an idea of what a Todd Munkin offense is going to look like, but

that's also the beauty of a Todd Munkin offense is it's sort of flexible and it's sort of

defined by who he has and the talent they have out there. So in the case of Shadour,

he's not really starting off behind anyone. He's right there even with Dishon outside of the

experience factor at least. No, I think that does help him. And I think what also helps him

is like the last time that Todd Munkin has spoken last two times, he's spoken in that interview

setting with with all of us at the combine and then at the owner's meetings, like I came away

from both of those availabilities thinking, huh, he's like pretty positive the way he's talking

about Shadour Sanders. Like it is interesting. I think Todd Munkin, there are certain things

about Shadour Sanders that he likes. And I think everyone's kind of assumed that

fans at least ever since that video came out on the brown social channels of the two of them

meeting and Todd Munkin, you know, referencing that the rapins wanted to draft him last year when

he was there. So I think that that coupled with the whole, hey, everyone's learning it this year.

You're not coming in as a rookie with Dylan Gabriel and you both are kind of being measured

against one another because neither of you know really anything about this offense compared to

two bets. There's going to be new stuff for everyone. And it's going to be a different learning

curve for everyone. But I think that plus the fact it seems like he's made a good impression on Todd

Munkin already is going to be potentially really helpful for him throughout this process if he can

keep it going and keep it rolling. All right. So Ashley, what are you watching for here as we kick

off this this offseason program? What are you looking forward to over these next two months?

Well, it's it's tough because I think there's a few ways that we could go. And there's one thing

I strategically don't want to say because I don't think we're going to glean much up from it.

Maybe you all know what I'm talking about already. We can talk about it at the end. But I'm going

to go with the the past catchers. And I think that is obviously one of the big questions throughout

this draft. But hey, I think all eyes are going to be on Jerry Judy for the time being.

Obviously, if they draft a receiver pretty high, all eyes will be on that person. I know you guys

talked yesterday. I think on the ham K pod about Harold Fanon and him having to continue to produce

in year two and people having more film on him now. But I think the Jerry Judy of it all is kind

of at the the center point of this to me right now. What's he going to be like? How's he going to look?

How's he going to look in this system from what we can tell so far and how those guys as a whole

I think are going to bounce back and what any new additions are going to do there.

It is funny to think about how drastically things can change because this time a year ago,

I'm almost wondering like, Oh, is Jerry going to have another 1200 yard season and what we're going

to be talking about this off season is Jerry holding out for a bigger contract. And instead,

he's kind of trying to get back to where he was two years ago. You know, Mary K. Kevin's defense,

he used to always say there's no depth chart in the spring. But you got to have guys out there,

you got to put them in some kind of order. So there sort of is some kind of depth chart even if it's

not even if you don't want to read too much into it. And I think once we get out on the practice field

and especially in this first kind of bonus camp when we get to watch practices much earlier than

we usually get to, I think it's going to be very interesting to see obviously one how Jerry

Judy looks, but two. Where's Isaiah Bond? Where's Sid Tillman? Where are some of these guys? I mean,

we get to see him before even though they draft guys. So we're going to get a really early idea

of maybe where guys stand off the bat. I think that's going to be a very interesting thing to look

at in that receiving core. It really is. And the fact that we have that bonus mini camp that you're

kind of talking about there, I think that is going to be really great for us to be able to see

what the order of operations are during that day that we have out there on April 21st. And I'm

assuming that we're going to be able to watch that whole practice. Maybe we won't. I'm not really

exactly sure. But I think we'll probably be able to. And if so, then we will have a little bit of

a better idea of who's first on the deaf chart right now and who's second and third and whatnot.

Now Todd Munkin did say that those things can change and it can change day to day. It can change

week to week. And it will of course be based on performance. But I think we will be able to get

some ideas of what they are thinking in terms of the starting lineups when we go out there that day.

And normally you wouldn't get that. Normally you would have to wait till the 10 OTA practices to

start to get a feel for where guys are are landing on the deaf chart, the imaginary deaf chart.

But we don't have to wait that long. We've got a voluntary mini camp now. Not everybody has to

be there for the voluntary mini camp. It'll be interesting to see if that's something that Miles

Garrett shows up to or doesn't show up to. If he were going to show up for anything in this

spring session, that would probably be a good thing to show up to is the voluntary mini camp because

everybody should be here. Or I mean, every mostly everybody will be here. And it would be a good time

to probably introduce himself to Mike Gutenberg and whatnot. But I don't know. I mean, it's 100%

voluntary. He doesn't need it. Doesn't have to be here. So maybe he won't. But I think we will get

a pretty good idea of where is Jerry? And where is Isaiah? And I think we know I feel like

those two guys are kind of one and two right now. And you know, then it's just going to be a matter

of two days after that is day one of the draft when they have number six and number 24. And by the

end of that day, by the end of April 23rd, there could be another premier wide receiver on this

football team. Yeah, I think in that's what I think is so interesting is this we don't usually get

to see the roster before the draft and just having a new coach. I was trying to remember I don't

think we were out there when Freddie Kitchens did his that his voluntary mini camp. So I don't think

we got to go out there and see that when he was the new coach and then Kevin that was COVID year.

So there was no offseason program. So it's been a while since we've had an opportunity to do this.

So yeah, we usually get to first time out there watching practices working mini camp.

And then you get that jarring moment where it's like, oh, yeah, these veterans do look way

different than the rookies. Like it kind of makes sense now. But that's actually Jerry was really

good last year in the spring and in the summer. Like I think we all came away from last off season

and last training camp thinking man, this guy is going to have another big year. So

just like with everything in the spring, I don't want to read too much into it. But I think at

the very least he probably has to have at least a close to repeat performance. I think we need to

come away from this spring thinking yeah, Jerry is the best receiver on this team or one of the

one of the two best receivers on this team and he's ready to kind of bounce back.

Yeah, one of to go along with what I said at the beginning of this pot. Like one of my favorite phrases

at this time of year is it's better than the alternative, which like you don't want him to go out

there and be dropping a ton of balls or look like he's not trying or something like that. I think

you take everything with the grain of salt in terms of oh my gosh, this guy can't miss a ball.

Like he looks so good. He looks so precise. Nothing's rattling him. You have to take all that with

the grain of salt because there's no contact. There's no real defense, etc. But the flip side of

that is if a guy looks awful. And I know you guys have had stories about before. I know like Anthony

Schwartz dropping passes is like the one example that gets brought up a lot his first couple of

years that kind of puts a name to the concept that I'm talking about for fans here a little bit.

But I think you want them to look as good as they possibly can. But at the same time,

you're balancing that this is not the end all be all in terms of projecting how their year is

going to go. Okay, are you ready for our first one of the year? Are very very first to get this

sort calendar turning to 2026 the 2026 season Mary K. It is it is vibe check time. New coach, new

coaching staff. Kevin never liked to tell us what he talked about in his first team meeting.

I'm sure Todd will tell us. Kevin like Kevin never liked to tell us who wasn't wasn't there. I

wonder if Todd will tell us or at least answer like if we said him, hey, is someone so here if he'll

say yes or no, Kevin wouldn't even do that. I'm sure the Browns will at some point tweet out video

of of Todd's first speech to the team. So we'll get to see that. And then to the point of what we've

been talking about. Of course, we don't get to watch practice tomorrow. We don't get to watch

practices until the end of April. But what do these practices look like? What they can only do so

much and they can't be real physical and there's a lot of rules. They can't be in pads all of that

stuff that we've mentioned already. But we are going to get to see some of the pacing. We are

going to get to see some of the things, you know, Kevin always approached it like a passing camp.

It was a lot of seven on seven and a lot of that stuff. How does Todd approach these practices

in the spring? I just think with a new an entirely new offensive staff and a obviously completely

new head coach. It's been six years of Kevin Stafanski. So it's going to be sort of interesting to

see now what it looks like under somebody else. Because it's been a while like it used to be

every other year. We got to see a new system and a new approach. But it's actually been a while

since we've gotten to see that. So that's really what I'm interested in this offseason program.

What does it look like? And what kind of indications do we get about maybe what training camp is going

to be like when they can really get going? Well, in addition to that, not only is Todd Munkin

going to be the overarching coach who is bringing a whole new energy and vibe. But you've got new

coordinators on the defensive side of the ball and on special teams. So everything's going to be

vastly different. It's not like Jim Schwartz is back and that whole side of the ball is coming back

doing exactly what it's always done before. Mike Routenberg brings a whole new level of energy to

that side of the ball. A very different, different personality. We're going to hear him. He's probably

going to be very loud out there. His presence will be felt. There's no question about that.

And then Bubba, he had a very big impact on his guys. And so now they have to see what it's

going to be like on on special teams with the new coordinator over there. So

lots going on in all three phases. And yeah, I do think that Todd Munkin is going to work these

guys probably more than Kevin worked them in some of these practices. That's the feeling that I get

because I've heard him say a number of times that John Harbaugh was all about the work at this

time of year. And I think that rubbed off on him. And I really think that he's going to go harder

on them, try to get them ready to play some football. I mean, he's coming off of really good

winning football in Baltimore. He learned a lot over there. And the way that they did things,

that's going to bleed over here. And it's going to carry over to what Todd Munkin is going to do

as the new coach of the Cleveland Browns. And I think he's also going to play them, play the

starters more in preseason. So I think these guys are at least the veterans are going to be

in for a little bit of not a rude awakening. But I think they're going to find out that, you know,

this is not a country club camp anymore, really. I mean, this is going to be a little bit tougher

maybe than what they're used to. But truthfully, there are not all that many longtime veterans

around anymore. The whole offensive line is new. You know, Joel's not back yet. If he's coming

back at all, Shelby Harris is gone. Miles Garrett isn't going to be here in the early going.

David Nejoku is gone. So there's not a ton, a ton of real long-time veterans that are still around.

A lot of new faces this year. Tons of turnover in this roster. And so I think they'll adapt to the

changes. Okay. Yeah. You know, look, I think Kevin, I think the training camp last year was a little

more physical than it had been in the past. But that was all sort of relative to how Kevin did it.

But to your point, worked for John Harbaugh, worked for Kirby Smart. These little last two coaches,

the Todd Munkin has worked for. I remember standing there listening to Eric Takosta at the combine.

And somebody was asking about tackling. And she's like, yeah, we tackled. Now I don't know if

Baltimore tackled to the ground in training camp or whatever. But that's a team that plays

physical and their camps are physical. And I think that's, again, I don't know how much

they can actually get away with here in the spring and how much it'll actually mimic training camp.

But Ashley, I just, I hope we see a little more competition, just a little more like,

you know, not that you want this to be Hugh Jackson 2.0. But I remember watching practices where

Hugh Jackson and Greg Williams would go at each other or Todd Haley would go at the deep like,

I want to see a little competitiveness in these practices. And I want to see these two sides kind

of going at each other because you got to get ready to play football. And this team

isn't going to be the most talented team on a lot of Sundays. But if they are competitive and

physical and tough, that's how you go out and you steal games early in the season.

Yeah, I'm glad Mary Kay brought up that the Todd Munkin quotes about John Harbaugh because that's

also what I keep thinking about. Like, it is just very different from how Kevin would ever talk

about these or relay his philosophies. Obviously, he just didn't like to say much in Todd is the sort

of opposite in that. So I am really curious. And again, like the, for the veterans that are still back,

it's like, okay, how are you going to respond in this different environment? Even the other veterans,

like, what's Jerry Judy and Isaiah Bond? How are they going to rise to that challenge, right?

To go back to the receivers? So I think it is interesting. And I'm happy that this was our first

vibes check of the year, Dan, like time is flying by that we're already getting a vibes check

for 2026. I had to get one in. It's the only way to start the offseason program is to do it

through vibes check. What was the thing that we actually that you were going to bring up?

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't want to say the offensive line because I think I'm sure fans

are probably like screaming in their car. What about the oil line? What about the oil line? And like,

for me, and I know you guys feel the same way, like it's next to impossible to tell anything about

the oil line during these sessions. I think it's also really hard to tell anything about the

D line, but it's a bit easier when you're watching their drills. But the oil line, it's just so,

so hard to tell anything I think in the trenches when there's not even pads on, like that's why

we didn't I didn't bring it up. And I think it's probably why none of us brought it up.

Yeah. I think that's fair. I think the big thing is just sort of what we talked about with

the receiver, right? Getting an opportunity to see where guys line up. I mean, let's say they

draft Spencer Fano, right? And they decide, even though Titus Howard told us he's playing right

tackle, let's say they make that pick and they decide our best move is to start him on the right

side and maybe eventually move them to the left side. Well, then we would get to see that at some

point, like, oh, hey, Titus Howard is playing left tackle. We're probably we're not going to see

out in Jenkins, but you know, that's a guy that if we were, we'd get to see, okay, is he playing

guard? I know Todd indicated that's where he'd like him to be or is he playing center. So I think

that's really again, no depth chart in spring, right? Mary K, but somebody's got to play somewhere

when they do these team drills. So I think that's really what would be the most interesting thing on

that online? Yes, absolutely. 100%. There will be a lot of things and a lot of positions or

players that we won't get to see. And as you mentioned, Elton Jenkins, he's probably not going to be

ready to go right away. Same thing with Quinshaw and Jutkins. Quinshaw is not going to be ready

to practice right away or at least not going to be full-go right away. He should be full-go for

camp. Andrew Berry said, for training camp at the end of July. But I think they're going to

err on the side of caution and take it really nice and easy with Quinshaw in these spring practices.

So we might not see a lot of him. The other guys are going to have to carry the load. And that also

makes me think that they're going to add another running back here, either in the draft or as an

undrafted free agent or trade for one or just otherwise pick up another running back along the way.

Okay, there we go. We just get you ready for the offseason program. We'll be out there on Wednesday,

right around noon. So make sure you're following our socials. Look for orange and brown talk.

And follow our socials. We'll be putting up clips and stuff like that from what Todd Monkin has to

say, from whatever players we hear from have to say. Just look for orange and brown talk. Give us a

like or follow in all of those places. And of course, if you're not a football insider subscriber now

at the time, cleveland.com slash browns the blue banner at the top of the page and find us on YouTube.

We'll have a stand up tomorrow. So a little little bonus YouTube content coming your way.

Cleveland Browns on cleveland.com. For Mayor Kay and Ashley, I'm Dan. Thanks for listening, everybody.