When was the last time you went to the movies?

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast.

When was the last time you went to see a movie in a theater instead of hearing this?

That Netflix chime is getting a lot of play these days,

checking show times, picking seats, grabbing freshly buttered popcorn, maybe a cold drink,

going to the movies is an experience many of us loved growing up,

but then something happened, and we stopped.

Movies, of course, are taking center stage at the Oscars this weekend,

and while the movies themselves are top of mind for the audience, for many filmmakers,

it's also about the importance of going to the movies.

Watching a film in the theater with an audience is an experience,

and right now the theater going experience is under threat,

and it's up to us to support them.

If we don't reverse this trend, we'll be losing a vital part of our culture.

This is my battle cry.

That was director Sean Baker at the Oscars last year,

after he won multiple Academy Awards for his film, Anora,

he isn't alone in that battle cry.

There are many people in the industry worried about slipping box office sales.

So why did we stop going to the movies?

And what does it mean for our communities and for the industry to talk more about this?

I am joined by the current Mellie Gummish Mellie Good Morning.

Good morning, Matt.

I actually want to start by asking you a question.

When was the last time you went to see a movie?

I couldn't possibly tell you.

Like I actually don't remember.

Because I don't remember the last time I went and sat in a theater to watch a movie.

Okay, so that's exactly why we're having this conversation today.

If you were people are going to the movies, and people who still go, they don't go often.

I know this because we work together every morning.

You are here with us putting out the current.

And I know you talk a lot about movies.

You aren't part of that group.

You go to a lot of movies.

I'm not.

I do go to a lot of movies.

I love going to the movies.

And I always have.

My mom took me to my first movie when I was five.

It was Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the 2005 version.

Not the original.

No, not the original.

And with the chocolate and the singing and the big screen, I was immediately sold.

But the movie that made me actually fall in love with going to the theaters was James Cameron's

avatar.

Okay.

I thought when I was nine and Matt, I thought it was the most magical experience.

And since then, going to the movies with people or by myself, it just became a part of

my life.

You go a lot of movies.

I go to a lot of movies.

I try to go at least twice a month.

And last year, I've seen about 30 movies in the theaters.

That would, I think, would make you an outlier, right?

A major one.

So Telefilm Canada did a national study to look at these movie going habits in 2024.

And in 2019, Canadians on average bought three tickets per person.

And in 2024, that number dropped to 1.6 tickets every year.

So that's almost half of what it was before the pandemic.

And I see this when I go as well.

Most of the time, theaters aren't full.

And I've been there when I was the only person before it.

And it might sound like a cool experience having the place all to yourself, but it doesn't

feel right.

Kind of weird.

Who is still going, aside from you, who is still going to the movies?

Younger people are the biggest ticket buyers.

85% of Canadians under 35 went to the movies in 2024.

And that's a lot more than people over 35.

And that trend still continues today.

I spoke with Tertadar.

He's a professor and department chair of marketing and consumer studies at the University of

Guaulf.

And he focuses on movies.

2025 was actually slightly better than 2024 in terms of attendance.

Now, what has happened is that Genzi moviegoers share of their attendance increased.

So you can say like a slight increase in the revenue, but it's not a sort of something

that we can really celebrate in the sense is still the trend line is clear that this

business, especially in terms of attendance, is a declining business.

At a declining business.

There are some pretty obvious reasons that I could think of, but I'm not the expert.

Why, as you understand, are people not going to the movies?

Like you said, some obvious reasons here.

And the most obvious one, of course, is streaming a lot far.

I don't have to go to the movies.

I can watch the movie at home.

Exactly.

And we got used to that habit of watching movies at home, especially during the pandemic,

because why would you go to a movie theater when you have hundreds and thousands of movies

just a click away from you all the time?

And a few years ago, it might have been easier for movie theaters to make a case for themselves.

Because most likely, if you wanted to see that new blockbuster, you would only be able

to see that at the theaters, not at home.

But that's not the case anymore.

Till Netflix and all the streamers came in, in general, it was three months between

theatrical release versus any other sequential release in terms of DVDs or Blu-rays or television.

Now, these streamers, you know, when they're making movies, they're basically putting

this time on a shorter late.

So a lot of the time within two or three weeks, they're basically saying the movie needs

to be on the streaming platform.

And they have every interest to do that because they are not really making money on the

theater.

Their money is basically on the subscription side.

So sooner they can put the movie on subscription, they're in fine shape.

Frankenstein, Guillermo del Toro's latest movie.

It was a great example of that this year.

It's nominated for several Oscars, and it was released exclusively in theaters.

But only for three weeks, then started streaming on Netflix while still playing in theaters.

How much of this isn't just about convenience, but it's also about the cost of actually

going to the movies.

So when getting people to go to the movies is already a challenge, it's even a harder

sell to get people to pay for a movie that they can watch on a streaming platform that

they already pay for, especially now in an affordability crisis.

And we talk to some people in downtown Vancouver about this.

I used to go to movie theaters a lot like last year, especially with the $5 on Tuesdays.

But now that I'm going to school and working part time, I don't have a lot of money, so

I don't go to the movies a lot.

But when I can, I still go because I love going to the movies.

I wouldn't just leave my house and go to the movies because I can binge on my couch.

There's Netflix, there's Prime, I don't love those things.

I still go, but not as often as before because the price is obviously increased.

The easiness of just staying at home kind of, and obviously the fact that the cost going

up as well too, and you're already paying for, like the Netflix is and others already.

So I think people are generally trying to stay at home more often.

I'm so old that I remember when the cheap night was $2 and $2.52 days.

Are there other reasons?

Thank you.

Are there other reasons that people stopped going to the movies?

Awareness is another big one.

Many movies, they don't really get a big marketing push for theatrical release anymore, unless

it's a big budget blockbuster.

So if going to the movies and checking regularly what's in the theaters is not something that

you already do, you might never hear about some of these movies until they appear on

streaming.

It happens to me, and I watch a lot of movies.

Seriously, so if you don't know what movies are there, you're not going to go and see

them.

Exactly.

And for streaming platforms, that's okay.

Their business relies on building habits and keeping subscriptions rather than selling

movies.

But for movie theaters, that's the key.

So I ask you this as somebody who doesn't go to the movies, but you do, why should we

care about going to the movies?

What do we actually gain from that experience, do you think?

A lot, I think.

And the quality of the experience is one thing, but it's also so much more than that.

It's this unique experience we come together with other people in one room, we sit in silence,

and we feel things together.

There's this sense of collectiveness.

We laugh together, we cry together, and we react as one.

And it doesn't have to be all positive reactions either.

It's liking a movie together or questioning what even is going on on the screen.

It's fun, it's magical.

I think the social aspect of it, especially with the movie that you're going to hate watch.

The whole room comes together just to hate on the movie, I guess.

I really hope it doesn't die.

If it dies, I don't know what I'm going to do.

There's this aesthetics that come with a big screen, the popcorn, the snacks.

There are movies that you don't just want to see on your phone or Netflix, so you just want to see it on the big screen.

I think the last one I went to was Barbie with a girlfriend.

The feeling of being with many, many people together in a large dark room,

and having the same experience, I enjoyed that a lot.

But also that if it's a movie in a theater, it's contemporary.

So you're experiencing something and it has just been issued.

It's part of the total feeling of society at the time.

Like you're part of something larger.

Is that feel familiar to you?

So familiar.

But I also had forgotten about that experience during the pandemic.

Then theaters reopened and I went to see the newest Spider-Man movie at the time.

It was Spider-Man, no way home.

And Matt, I immediately fell back in love with the experience.

The whole movie felt like I was watching it with my closest friends.

We all gasped at the same time.

We laughed at the same time.

It was just beautiful.

And we just truly enjoyed the experience together.

But that's exactly what the movie theaters do.

They make us feel immersed in the movie, be in the moment,

and it lets us connect with these strangers around us and feel something special together.

I mean, then that's a whole lot different than sitting at home,

it doesn't matter how big your television is,

but sitting at home by yourself watching this on your own, right?

Exactly.

And especially in a movie theater, you focus better too.

You're in this dark room.

It's loud.

There's a big screen, no talking, and there are no phones.

And for many of us, that's a rare experience nowadays.

When do we ever go to three hours during the day without being distracted by our phones

and just watching and focusing what's in front of us?

And just what's in front of us?

I definitely can't do that while watching a movie at home.

And watching it at home, you lose some of that magic.

Not going to film theaters is kind of a loss.

Some films are not made for being seen in the living room.

I do remember a lot of films that have been looking in a theater,

whereas the films that I've been looking from the platforms,

I don't remember the experience of it.

Make your choice.

That's André Goudreau.

He's a cinema professor at the University of Montreal.

He's also the Canada Researcher in cinema and media studies.

And just like André, I can remember my first and many other movie experiences,

but I can't tell you the first movie I watched on a streaming platform.

Or even last week.

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How much, my sense is that I am not alone in this,

that I haven't gone to a movie theater in a while.

I know that I assure a lot of people haven't gone.

But how much of the movie theaters themselves feeling the pinch of people

aren't going as much as they used to?

So last year, the total box office revenue in Canada was almost $840 million.

And that's a lot of money.

But actually, when we look at the pre-pandemic numbers,

the average revenue was over $1 billion a year.

And that pinch is being felt most in independent theaters across this country.

In 2024, the group that represents independent theaters,

they reported that 60% of Canada's indie theaters operated at a loss.

And Park Theater is an independent theater in Vancouver.

It was run by Synaplex, up until last year,

when Synaplex announced they're not going to a new delis,

so Park was planning to close its doors.

Then Rio Theater, also in Vancouver,

they stepped up and took over Park with the support of some industry backers,

including Sean Baker, who we heard from earlier,

and Finn Wolfart from Stranger Things.

Now, Park is operating under Rio,

which also had its own challenges over the years.

And Rachel Fox is the senior program at Rio.

The actual cost of a movie ticket,

at least where I work, hasn't really changed that much.

And I've worked in the same place for almost 15 years.

But the cost of running a movie theater has gone up a lot.

And if you think about what movies are, they're cheap entertainment.

And when it's no longer cheap entertainment,

I don't think it works in the same way.

The Rio's always sort of got something going on.

There's always been, I've always sort of said,

it's a bit like the Muppet Show.

We have to save the theater.

There was a moment in time, you know, in 2018,

the property came up for sale.

And we knew that unless a stake was planted in the ground,

some entity was going to buy the corner of commercial and Broadway

and turn it into condos.

So the response was to buy the property.

During COVID was the Rio about to close.

I never thought so.

I thought that we had to really figure out how to keep going

and be dynamic and be innovative in order

to remind people about something that they liked to do.

And also, you know, leaning on the community

to understand that it's not enough to say,

oh, I love the movies, but never show up.

It's a two-way street.

And I mean, we did see that during COVID a lot.

The restaurants and bar industry, they were like,

if you don't patronize us, we're going to go.

And people heated that call and they participated.

And that's what allowed those places to stay open.

So how are those theaters, the Rio and the Park Theater doing?

Both theaters, they have a strong community behind them.

So they're finding the best ways to serve that community.

But they're also trying to find and make

the best financial decisions for themselves.

And an important thing about these theaters,

they're single screen venues.

So they juggle showing new movies with other movies,

like classics.

Operating a single screen venue is very different

than operating a multiplex.

We're a restaurant with one table.

So would it make sense for us to play one movie only for three,

four, five weeks at a time?

Those terms, usually, from a studio or a distributor,

they're going to say, well, we want to see two

or three or four screenings a day.

When you have one screen, it means you're

only playing that movie.

So there's a bit of a strategy to it.

And it's up to each venue to really know their community

and decide, is this a good idea?

Is this sustainable?

When it comes to this venue, it wasn't

sustainable, which is why we are choosing a different model

than what Synaplex did.

What we do as a hybrid venue, it is a lot of work.

It is the most sometimes complicated,

exhausting game of Tetris you could possibly imagine.

But we do make it work.

And that makes me happy to know that people

who live around here that are within walking distance

are making a plan, maybe every Sunday,

that is part of their routine.

Or maybe that's very ambitious.

Maybe every other Sunday, maybe every third Sunday,

you're going to go for some brunch with your friend,

you're going to go for a coffee, you're going to go for a walk,

and then you're going to go see a movie,

and then you're going to go home early and get ready for,

a nice week ahead, that to me as community.

And that's in Vancouver, where there are other theaters.

For many rural communities, independent theaters

are the only way for people to go see a movie.

And when they have to close for financial reasons,

the community loses that space to come together.

And if the nearest big box theater is an hour away from you,

you're even more likely to stay at home.

So what else we heard about Vancouver?

What else are theaters doing to stay afloat

and get people to come back,

or to her point show up more often?

They're doing a bunch of things.

And the goal is something your screen at home can't match with.

Here's Tirtadar from the University of Guaulf again.

The theaters are definitely spending more money

or investing on experiences.

They are better sets, a better audio system, better screen

within the theater, food services.

But the experience has to be big enough for someone

to say, look, I don't want to sit in my basement.

I want to go and watch the movie at the theater.

Movie theaters would say, I'm extreme, really large screen.

They are doing better.

They are definitely doing better than, say,

just average movie theaters.

And theaters are doing other things as well,

like cheaper days, like half price Tuesdays,

maybe not a $2 one.

And memberships and special screenings,

like showing older classics or seasonal movies,

even surprise screenings.

This is something that you pay less for a ticket

and you go and watch an unreleased movie

without knowing what the movie is beforehand.

And I've been to a couple of those

and the theaters are definitely busier.

Is all of this enough, these are interesting ideas,

but is this enough to keep the theaters

that people aren't going to as much afloat?

All of these things help, but it's not enough.

Many theaters are finding that just having movies

is not the most profitable long-term plan.

But what's new and has been working is live programming,

like screenings of live concerts, sports games,

or even popular TV shows.

The park and reo theaters in Vancouver are doing this.

Here's Rachel Fox again.

I've always sort of thought of the Rio live events

where the bricks movies were the mortar

and they kind of filled in the gaps.

One of the investors of this property is Finn Wolfhardt,

who's a Vancouver actor and he's in this little show

called Stranger Things.

And when Stranger Things had its final episode,

the Duffer Brothers said we want to screen it in theaters

and Netflix said no, and then people said actually,

maybe you do want to screen it in theaters

and they turned what could have just been people

sitting at home watching Netflix into a pop culture phenomenon,

which was upwards of a million people

going to see the final episode of Stranger Things.

And we participated in that.

And we had Finn Wolfhardt joining us with 500 people

over the years.

I've had countless experiences like that with actors

and filmmakers.

They're really hard to organize, but when they pop off,

boy, do they ever pop off, it's fairy dust.

It's Hollywood, it's movie magic.

I should say, I remember the first movie I ever saw in a theater.

I went to see Star Wars with my dad in 1977,

changed my life.

I took my kids to see movies and it was amazing.

You're in a room with a lot of other people

as they said that you don't know.

You don't know these other people

and you're having this collective experience.

But things change, right?

Life is different now than it was in 1977.

There are easier, there are cheaper ways to watch movies.

What would you say to somebody who says,

that's life, that things move on and we do other things.

We do different things now.

But it's still magical.

So we lose that rare experience of coming together

as a community and feeling things collectively.

But the impact also go beyond that.

Over the past few months, we've been watching that bidding war

between Netflix and Paramount to buy Warner Bros.

And recently Netflix backed away from its bid,

but Paramount is still in the game

and deals between streaming platforms and film studios.

Are very worrisome to the movie theater industry

and some filmmakers.

James Cameron, the director of Avatar and Titanic,

he called this Netflix deal disastrous

and said, these are his words,

the theatrical experience of movies

could become a sinking ship.

This is from the guy who made Titanic.

He would know.

He would know.

So he is worrying that if the streaming giants

take over movie studios,

then the theatrical releases won't be a priority.

And that will mean job losses.

The quality of the movie's suffering

and some important stories never getting told.

And this all obviously doesn't mean

that we need to eliminate streaming completely from our lives.

Rachel Fox says, going to the movies

is something that's in our collective DNA.

So we just need to remember that magic.

We need more fun.

We need fun as collectively as people living on this planet.

More fun and fun could be anything.

And I think you could still go see a depressing movie

and afterwards say, wow, I had a lot of fun.

And I think we need more of that

because the world's on fire all the time,

get away from it, go into a dark space,

get drawn like a moth to the flame

to whatever's going on screen

and disappear in a great story.

And we feel it together.

It really is your experiencing

a rollercoaster of emotions with a roomful of people.

It's a joyful thing.

And it's a cheap entertainment, baby.

The world is on fire and we need more fun

and we need more joy and we need more magic.

I'm convinced.

I have to go and see a movie.

I need to go and look at the,

do they have listings anymore

to tell you what's coming up in the theater?

I'll just ask you.

In the meantime, the Oscars are on Sunday.

You have seen all of the best picture nominees.

And more, yes, I did see them all.

So what do you recommend I go see?

I can't give you a favorite one from the Oscars list.

But I can give you one of my favorite ones

to see in the theater from the Oscars movies.

And for me, that was Hemnitz.

Chloe's house from.

And that's partly because I'm a Shakespeare nerd.

But also the experience of seeing that movie

in a roomful of people,

it was so powerful and emotional.

At one point, everyone in the theater was crying

and all you could hear was people sniffling.

It was just beautiful.

But I actually want to recommend another movie

for you to go watch.

It's in the theaters now.

It's this great new Canadian movie.

It's called Nirvana, the band to show the movie.

It's not about the band Nirvana.

And Matt, seeing that movie in the theaters

was one of the most fun experiences I've had this year.

Thinking about it, I'm still smiling.

I trust you.

I will go and see that in the theater.

Mally, thank you very much.

Thanks for having me.

Mally Gummish, movie lover is a producer here at the current.

You've been listening to the current podcast.

My name is Matt Galloway.

Thanks for listening.

I'll talk to you soon.

For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.