Who do neutral cricket fans love to see lose the most?

Okay, Seven stops to write this best man's speech.

Hi, I'm Liam.

And I've got nothing.

Stop funny.

When he's good.

I beat her.

He'd never forgive me.

What about friendship?

Is a journey.

Ugh, cringed.

Come on.

That's it.

In year five, Dan had the bright idea to cracking the best best man's speech on the

train.

Hi, friends.

Sean Lindner from Two Black Guys with Good Credit here.

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Hello and welcome to Following On From Talksport.

I'm John Norman.

And today, bringing you another brilliant cricket podcast with very little cricket being

played in the world at the moment as a series that's just finished in New Zealand.

It's in Barbway, South Africa, now in town, the Sheffield Shield and the Plunkett Shields

still chugging along.

But apart from that, there's a hundred draft here or auction.

It's about it until the IPL, so do we really just sit back and do nothing for three weeks?

No.

Well, what we do is we talk about cricket.

And today, I'm delighted to be bringing you a conversation that took place between myself,

former England fastballer, Steve Harmasson and that man, Jarrah Kimber, broadcast his

story and cricket commentator.

And anyways, pretty much done as many jobs in cricket as David Lloyd has anyway.

The topic for discussion today is who is the most hated cricket team in world cricket?

Okay, hate's probably too strong a word.

But which team do neutral cricket fans, if you can be truly neutral?

Which team do neutral cricket fans love to see lose the most?

Yeah, that's probably how I should have described it at the start of the show.

Either way, sit back and enjoy.

This is myself, Steve Harmasson and Jarrah Kimber and the full video available on the

Talksport Cricket YouTube channel.

Who do that neutrals hate the most?

England?

You are.

Us.

Us.

Australia.

You.

I think it depends where the neutrals come from.

That's right.

Yeah.

Because I think if it's old neutrals, newspaper reading neutrals is probably still Australia,

isn't it?

Australia?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think if you're an online neutral, it's definitely India, but I think if you're an

older 35 plus England, I would have said England.

I think England's that hated.

They kind of love when England lose.

Yeah.

I bet they do.

People come to say thinking, but is it just a size of the population, or is it?

No, I think that's got.

No, I do think it's changed because of political pressures, because of everything that's

going on recently.

Did you guys see the cupcake video that Indian TV made?

No.

So there's a promo for the South Africa India game.

Was it an ICC?

No, I think it was.

I think it was.

It was an Indian, some of the stuff that has been pushed out by the ICC.

Are you saying the David Miller is not a 64% of hell up there?

Oh, God.

In about 96's when they put that up on the screen, but Instagram.

No, there was a video.

It's not worth going on during an ICC event or an ICC event, or any event.

I think it was a promo made by the, it must have been GEO, but whoever it was, whoever

holds the rights in India who was showing it, and it was an Indian fan and a South African

fan racing for a cupcake.

And the South African fan gets their first and the Indian fan says to the South African,

you can have this cupcake because we got a cupcake.

I love it.

And then the South African eats the cupcake and chokes on it.

Right?

No, no, the cricket culture is making that.

The moment are they.

Do you know me?

Can I just say one thing, in defense of these terrible, terrible, like, promo thing?

I don't know about you, but the first thing I notice about, how do I phrase it?

I haven't always traveled around the world as much as I have done over the last 10 years

or so.

I didn't really travel overseas at all until I was about in my 20s.

The thing that always jars when you get to another country is other countries' adverts.

Do you know what I mean?

I do.

Because when you go to another country and you're watching TV and you're watching a sitcom

or a live spot, whatever, it's all kind of the same or you can kind of, but the adverts

are built on adverts that have already gone and they're over years and also bolted in

to the, essentially, the understanding of the country where they're being filmed.

So they're not for you.

Yeah.

Right?

They're always jarring.

I always found them really jarring.

To be fair, in this case, the Indian fans also complained about this ad.

Well, then that really undoes my argument.

Yeah.

I thought maybe I'm just looking at this.

This isn't for me, and I'm probably wrong, I hate my ad definitely wrong, maybe I

can't be sniffy about this because it is not for me.

But if the people it's actually for, also think it's terrible, then ignore everything

I've just said.

I think there's three, there's three, as someone who has covered these three teams pretty

much for 20 years.

Right.

So Australia, you get the press just saying things about opposition teams that is just

openly disrespectful.

Yeah.

All the time, right?

They also win too much.

Yeah.

And then they win every.

Yeah.

And then Australian fans don't care when they lose because they've already turned

off.

And I know that's really annoying as well.

It is really annoying though.

I think with India, you have the sheer number of people.

So it doesn't matter who you are in the world.

If you put up an opinion on cricket online, the chances are there is going to be an Indian

person who's going to say, what about this Indian fact that you've forgotten?

And so that is a great thing because you can't even have a conversation with your friends

without someone going, actually, you've forgotten this.

And then I think you used to have that in your bio, didn't you?

So I love those lines.

I'm sorry for not mentioning that player you like.

Yeah.

Because I was just trying to keep people saying it, right?

And that's a sports writing thing as well.

But because there's so many Indians, it's like to another level.

You've also got the political interference.

And now India is starting to win everything and bully everything as well, right?

So all those things happening.

And then you have, let's be really honest here, England is where all these countries are

related to one way or another.

Yeah.

And the common world and the politics and the, you know, the all these sorts of different

parts of, I want to say, can I just throw something in?

Because I want to get yours as a player as well.

Yeah.

So with YouTube, when you create a video, right?

And it's about, so say India are playing Australia, playing in England are playing,

right?

So or Australia Indian, so Australia loses in Bobway and get knocked out of the T20

World Cup.

You release a video on that.

No Australians watching it, right?

India get beaten by South Africa or they get knocked out.

You do a video on India.

No one is watching you.

English get stink out the ashes and do terribly.

Everyone is watching it.

I mean, the audience comes to the, the audience comes.

English might not really be that interested, but they do.

There's a kind of, I'm self-fertilation about what's supporting England cricket.

So the England fans are still watching this stuff or listening to stuff.

And what's that coming over the horizon?

Millions of neutral fans who want to come along.

I still think it's England.

I think England, England are, I think, people are happier when England are losing more

than any of the India or Pakistan or Australia or whatever.

I think so.

And I think it's, and I actually think it's like, it goes back to the Empire, where

for the 80s and 90s, what I can remember, 78s, 80s, 90s, it's England looking down on

and being preaching and being righteous.

And we invented the game who were you to talk to us about the game, even like, even at

the end of my career, when the IPL came around, it was ECB looking out and saying, there's

no way you're going to play in there because that's not our tournament.

And we, who are used to, I mean, from an India's point of view, who are you to sort this

tournament out?

Well, so for me, I think it's England, but I think India are on the way.

I think they're coming on a blind side because of that very fact that in 20 years time,

everything in that probably England, England's old school time, mob, that used to run the

MCC and ECB.

I think that's going to be India in 20 years time.

So I think all of a sudden, it could go a full circle.

That's what I think it's an age thing.

I think there is a gap.

Yeah, it is.

It's what you were saying.

The older generation are still England.

I don't know if we ever discussed this, but my dad hated the West Indies.

Right?

Absolutely hated the West Indies.

And when West Indies got terrible, and like, I'd be like, isn't it sad?

I'd be like, no, it's not sad because they never care when they destroyed us because that's

what you're supposed to do.

You're supposed to be good.

And they were ruthless when they were good.

And you know, you respect them, but you're also like, look at how good they are.

And then you want to beat them for the next 20 years, right?

I think Australia is still in that period of time, and you know, obviously with the ashes

that just happened and they beat India recently, I know they lost the World Test Championship

final.

Maybe that would have changed it, but Australia is about to drop off a cliff, right?

I mean, with all due respect, the Ben Dorsche is like, you know, the bowling has completely

changed.

And if these guys don't get fit and there's not really obvious 24 or 25 year olds coming

through that are going to take over that mantle at the moment.

So I think Australia might have a similar thing to the West Indies, where once they stop

beating everyone, it's not as much of a conversation.

So they might fade out of this.

England can never fade out of it though, because it's England.

And as, I mean, right next to Hanley's head at the moment, it's my book called Over

for Throne Cricket's Empire, right?

Yeah, I write cricket books.

That's one of them.

And it is all about why it is important for teams to beat England, right?

And in it, we write a whole chapter about how, why we didn't write that book about Australia.

That's because countries don't have the same relationship with Australia.

So it really does matter when you play England in a way that it doesn't with other sides.

But when it comes down to it, financially, politically, and also just sheer weight of numbers,

I can't see how, for younger generations, it's going to be, you have that same pool.

Because as Hanley said, that sort of, if you guys have ever gone back and researched

the whole Kerry Packer thing, right, when Kerry Packer does worlds, here is cricket.

Have a look at the clips online of, like, the people who had discovered, like, is it David

Frost?

Yes.

Yeah.

David Frost, does an interview with Kerry Packer and some English cricket journalist.

And like, there is not a single person from a commonwealth country outside of England

who isn't cheering for Kerry Packer all the way through, just because this guy is so pompous

and is so ridiculous all the way.

I am for it.

It's that kind of thing.

The whole way through.

The game's moved on so much, right?

And so the point being is, as Hanley said, those people are no longer in control.

So yes, they'll always be a kick back towards England.

Yeah.

But the people who are in control now are the Ambani family, is Jay Shah, right?

Is the Goinkers?

Those are the families who are in control now, right?

And everyone watching cricket in the next five to ten years is going to work that out

one way or another.

Do you worry about turning that back on cricket?

That's not the right terminology for us, not the right word of phrase it.

But if they do start struggling like the West Indies, do you worry that Australia is going

to turn their back on cricket in such a way that I'm talking about the purist format,

which would be the ashes?

Stop there, because we'll talk about that later in another clip, which would be bringing

to you on the Talks Hall cricket YouTube channel, which would be titled, Does Australia

Only Care About Cricket for two months a year?

But thank you for bringing it up.

Come on, yes.

But it's a good point, a very good point, but we can expand on that.

But it's...

Okay, Seven stops to write this best man's speech.

Hi, I'm Liam.

And I've got nothing.

Stop funny.

And he's good.

I beat her.

He'd never forgive me.

What about friendship?

Is a journey.

Ugh.

Crint.

Come on.

That's it.

Cracking the best, best man's speech on the train you can.

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We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools.

We must work with mental health professionals to support children.

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Terms apply.

It's more of the fact that if that happens, where does the sort of like what you're...

Can we enjoy cricket if we don't hate Australia?

That's what I'm trying to say.

We'll talk about that.

But there is another aspect to this that I think backs up what you're saying.

And possibly it goes back to where we come from, which is where we grew up in an era where it's very much about, you know, still a colony sport and, you know, England ruled the empire or that BS.

The way that there is now perception, truth, you know, rightly or wrongly, rightly.

The ICC events are essentially set up, so India win them.

Does that not also bring into focus what you were saying?

Yeah, 20 years, it'll be India.

No, no, now.

No, now.

I mean, look at the World Cup.

The Bubbles.

We heard the Bubbages from, you know.

Champions trophy.

Champions trophy.

I mean, all this stuff with Bangladesh, the intransions there.

I mean, all of this.

And the way that they're, you know, whereas before, I'm not saying it was better back then, it wasn't.

But now you've got, there was a kind of, I suppose, a Western belief that the ICC, you know, was impartial.

It wasn't.

But now, it clearly isn't an impartial body running the game.

The World Game is the ICC and the BCCI and between them, they're setting up this situation where every single world event is kind of geared

to enabling India to win it.

So that again is a reason why more and more neutral fans want India to lose over Australia and England.

There's, I think also it's, there is, I think all that is true and that's the political side that I'm talking about.

Yeah.

I mean, remember the Pakistan in this World Cup, I've also got some special treatment at time.

I know forget the India Pakistan game.

But we also had the schedule games for Pakistan and they ended up in venues that were shooting them.

Right.

Whereas actually if they played in India, that wouldn't have suited them as well.

We, it's a very complex geopolitical sport that we have partly because England drew all these random lines on countries all those years ago.

Right.

So I think that's all there.

But I think what you're talking about is what has been happening since, I think if you want to go back, it's probably since the Hava Junseng Andrew Simon's incident.

Online there has been a swing towards, wait a minute, is India getting whatever they want, whatever they want.

They haven't always, right.

But more often than not, things are going in their direction and the way that games are being run.

The funny thing about this conversation is, in 10 years time is Franchise Cricket actually the bigger,

is Franchise Cricket take over as the real bully of cricket rather than any of those three nations anyway.

The fixtures for South Africa England have been released today and as expected, the T20s are not going to happen because the SA-21 move.

So we're already living that world away.

Yeah.

But at what point do we then put a draw line in India and say, which is, I don't think this line would ever come.

We might go like that.

All of a sudden you just go, right, you run your own, just let you go.

We love the rest of the world.

Rest of the world will come together and you've got the money and you will draw them all together.

But eventually, because the product is not as great as what the whole global game is,

at what point does the global game then turn around and say, well, we can generate enough without you.

Can England, Australia, South Africa, can they generate enough without India, probably not.

But at some point, somebody's going to have to draw a line in and go, if you keep getting your wear and keep getting your wear in 10 years time,

you are going to be on your own.

There is only going to be the IPO.

You are going to play it twice a year.

And you are going to have all that stuff.

And at some point, where does the head of the ECB, where does the head of until somebody grows a pair at the ICC

doesn't keep becoming an entertainment event company.

Somebody then gets a hold of it and says, right, we need to make sure that the cricket is not never going to be separate from politics.

But at some point, we will have to make sure that if India can't go Pakistan, Pakistan can't go with India, sorry.

Bangladesh can't go in.

Every world tournament is going to be in Australia.

Every world tournament is going to be in England.

If it was sudden, then it's not as big a cash cow for the Indian market, is it?

I mean, and then you know what I'm trying to say, away from...

But here's the thing, is the ECB is already compromised because they're already involved with the IPO owners.

Right?

And they're already having to try and tame that beast at the moment.

That's the tea run as well.

Hey, and that's it.

Yeah, that's in a precarious position.

But cricket Australia is going to do that next.

South Africa is always doing that.

So you're saying they're going to separate what I'm saying is, actually what my happens in the future is,

the three major boards are no longer the most powerful groups.

The people who are the most powerful groups are the IPO owners.

And I would argue that's already happened.

Yeah.

Right?

So they become the bullies, really at that point.

And they decide how they want that to go ahead.

And they might even be like, we don't care about India winning World Cup.

We care about our franchise as winning as many tournaments as possible.

But then when does the board draw the line?

But at some point they're going to have to.

I don't know if the boards do.

That's my point.

I don't know what line do they draw.

Yeah.

But then there's no international cricket.

Well, that's not...

That won't be Ambani's.

So that's what I'm saying.

But the boards will still be there.

They'll be there, but if they're the least powerful part of this, it doesn't matter anymore.

That's what I'm saying.

I think it's already shifted.

Cricket Australia makes money when England taught in India too.

If they were to turn around and say we're not going to account in India,

then they are essentially going to have to start laying off a lot of people.

They have to lay off about 30% of that stuff.

Yeah, it's just not happening.

Cricket can cricket survive that level.

Again.

Yeah.

Look, this is the thing.

Cricket is, at the moment, is basically obsessed with the money it gets from India.

If you take India completely out of it, cricket is probably still maybe not quite the size of rugby union,

but not that far off the size of rugby union without India.

It's a lot bigger with India, obviously, but it's not that far away.

We could easily do that.

But all these boards would have to lay staff off, and they would also have to change the way that they think about it.

Also, the best players will go and play in the franchise.

It's not going to be playing for England.

We're going to do that anyway.

As a player, when you used to play, did you notice that teams that you'll come up against,

whether it's in World events, World Cups, or just in test matches,

would raise their game because they were playing England, as opposed to them playing anyone else.

And also, when you lost, did you sense a delight in your position more?

Absolutely.

And if they'd be in any other team?

Well, I don't know about beating any other team because we're not being in that sort of position,

and to see how they'd be here.

But there's always a more of a delight when they're being England.

And it comes back to the rulers of the game.

How many times do you hear people from outside England, or even England,

where's the best place you've ever played cricket?

We'll say, Lord, why? It's a home of cricket.

It's the home of cricket.

That inspired people to want to be beat England, inspired people to want to play international cricket,

to play at the home of cricket.

So, yeah, I think there was a hell of a lot more on beating England.

Because of the history.

Because of the history.

I remember reading something years ago that New Zealand felt, New Zealand cricket team felt

that England's cricket team just looked down and looked down on them.

I think that in a way that the England cricket team do not look down,

have never looked down on Australia.

No.

But I don't think it's England cricket team.

I think it's the Lord.

If you want to put Lords as in, if you just separate Lords as an MCC and the where ECB's run,

the other way that ECB was run at the time, I think that was probably what New Zealand

or what people meant from a New Zealand point of view.

What about MCC look down on New Zealand?

Are there other ECB look down on New Zealand?

I don't think, I don't think, I don't think of Michael Vaughner and as we say,

or Michael Atherton or Alex Stewart or Graham Gooch is captain of England cricket team.

Look, their units look down on New Zealand.

Well, Harry Brook didn't say this week that he didn't know much about the opposition.

Yeah.

For the associate teams before playing them.

I thought it was an odd thing to say, being that.

Do you want to add that to a few things that have been odd from Harry?

What's the oddest thing that's happened with Harry Brook this week?

Is it the fact that the AI couldn't work out what his very generic face looks like?

Yeah.

Or is it the thing he said?

I mean, bless him, Harry.

He's come out with some guns recently, hasn't he?

Do you think that England looked down on the smaller nations?

I don't, I didn't think they did as in from a team point of view.

I'll tell you what I think is different.

Maybe less so when, certainly probably less than the 80s.

And it probably has changed towards the back end of the 90s.

Whenever we're in New Zealand, we've been in the last three New Zealand tours.

And all you talk about is how approachable, sorry, one of the things we talk about on an offer

is about how approachable New Zealand cricketers are.

Unbelievable.

I mean, that's so many to do.

That's what you do.

I've never experienced.

Right.

I mean, that's one of the best things I've done outside playing cricket.

One of the most humbling things I've ever done.

So you look at the media, look at the money that Indian cricketers get.

The money Australian cricketers get, the money England cricketers get.

The young men, talented men, that I imagine are something for your ego, right?

The trappings are fame.

They're associated with being an international cricketer in those three countries.

The way that they see themselves in the world,

I would suggest is different to how a New Zealand cricketer sees himself on this and this old.

Yeah.

And it took great extent West Indies cricketers and a lot of other cricketers.

So that is a difference in itself, so.

South African cricketers talk about this, don't they?

They don't really understand why Australian and English cricketers act the way that they do.

Right then.

So it doesn't that feed into what we're talking about.

I think that's part of it.

I would say this army that having spent my whole life in the last 20 years involved in cricket,

English cricketers see ashes and everything below ashes.

And so there is a natural hierarchy there,

whereas Australia wants to destroy his imbubwe and England.

Right.

It doesn't really matter to Australia who they're destroying.

And I do think that India really is more like England, I think in that way.

In India, if you listen to the Indian players, they get themselves up.

Like Ashwin before the World Cup was like, this doesn't feel like a World Cup because we're playing the USA and all these other teams.

Doesn't that exactly feel like a World Cup?

But in his mind, he's like, we should be playing India.

So we should be playing Pakistan, Australia, England.

Right.

So I do think there is a hierarchy that some teams have.

And I think it's probably something that Australia doesn't have,

but then those smaller countries don't have it because they're always playing up.

Right.

So it's easy for New Zealand to feel that way.

But if you go back, even in the 50s and 60s,

India used to talk down about New Zealand cricket.

Right.

I think it was Ram Guhar talked about that in his book quite a bit.

Australia has always talked down about New Zealand.

Yeah.

So there's always a hierarchy.

Right.

Right.

Just for the top of the bottom.

I think the culture has brought up in that.

Is it not the culture they're brought up in?

I think some of it is the culture that you brought up in.

I think some of it is just the way that cricket is going.

I don't know anything about football, but I'm assuming Manchester United

is a big attain them full of.

Right.

And I'm not in my soul.

I'm assuming in that situation that there is a natural big brother,

little brother energy in those sorts of things.

And I think that comes in.

And I think with England, it's probably the separate thing is that

the ashes is cricket and everything else.

Yeah.

.

.

.

Okay.

Seven stops to write this best man's speech.

Hi.

I'm Liam.

And I've got nothing.

Stop funny.

When he's good.

I beat her.

He'd never forgive me.

What about friendship?

Is a journey.

Ugh.

Crank.

Come on.

That's it.

In year five, Dan had the bright idea.

Cracking the best, best man's speech.

On the train, you can.

Youth Mental Health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions.

We must strengthen after-school programs.

We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools.

We must work with mental health professionals to support children.

And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy.

Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions

at EmpowerOurFutureCoalition.com slash Solutions.

Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future.