Why Hamza Deserves His Downfall | Internet Anarchist

0:00This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents, but choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes. Hemsaw was undeniably one of the most influential figures in the YouTube self-help community. So much so that he managed to manipulate his core audience into seeing him as a cult leader to be emulated without question. Unfortunately, Hemsaw would take advantage of this dynamic for selfish gain, and as a result, lose not just his credibility, but over 90% of his viewers in just 8 months. This is on a good look, Hamza. This is on a good look, Hamza. Oh, what's up, what's up, Hamza? The anime's okay. Moderation is key, go! Yourself, moderation is key.

1:00Hi, I'm the Internet Anarchist. I create weekly YouTube documentaries, and today we'll be going over the unsettling downfall of one of YouTube's biggest self-improvement creators, Hemsaw Armored, How Fames, Status, and Success, Fueled Hemsaw's Growing Ego, and What This Means for the followers who see his words as lore, and treat them like a deity. Back in 2022, I uploaded a video covering Hemsaw's rise to the top of the YouTube algorithm in a nutshell, Hemsaw built his brand by showcasing the intimate aspects of his self-improvement journey, and offering young men guidance on how they could better themselves too. With valuable videos on topics like fitness, relationships, and making money, Hemsaw rapidly carved out a dedicated fan base that looked forward to every upload. While this might seem straightforward, the complexity lies in Hemsaw's ability to be honest and transparent with his viewers. No matter the topic. Is your future self-thinking? I wish you just stopped watching all of these self-improvement videos and actually took action to better your life. Hemsaw would gradually transform his close connection with viewers into a cult-like kinship dedicated to pushing its members to fulfill their potential.

2:03As you would imagine, Hemsaw proudly assumed leadership of said cult. That's how cults work. That is precisely how cults work. That you have this leader, the leader's word cannot be questioned. All of the followers that get co-opted in, they all just believe because you're supposed to believe. The cult's mission would be based on members trying to emulate the fictional figure Hemsaw created called Adonis. This cult of young men that you see before you is all about taking responsibility. We strive to become more like Adonis. He's successful but he's humble. He's strong but he acknowledges his weaknesses. There are five virtues of Adonis. Discipline, humility, presence, gratitude, and leadership. These five values of Adonis in mind as they'll become very important later. For now, Hemsaw would contrast the shining image of Adonis with a lesser figure dubbed Jeffrey. The embodiment of everything Hemsa believed a man shouldn't be. Jeffrey is the average guy. He's overweight, lazy and undisciplined.

3:04He got average grades in school. He works an average job that he doesn't like. He doesn't attract the kind of women that he wants. He lives a mediocre life. Jeffrey, he has about self-improvement. About exercise in a building a body that he could be proud of. He is about meditation, gratitude journaling, reading and learning, and Jeffrey refuses to do any of it. He spends his days playing video games, jacking off to messed up any in junk food. Won't disgrace. This dynamic would become the premise behind many of Hemsa's subsequent videos as he compared how Jeffrey and Adonis responded to different social situations. To keep the messages as personal as possible, Hemsaw would include stories about his past mistakes and achievements, which showed he was still improving like everyone else. While the Jeffrey vs Adonis dynamic was a good way for Hemsa to highlight traits to be able to show despy at her, it would also prove to be overly simplistic and lacked nuance explanation of what it takes to truly become a successful individual. However, this wouldn't stop Hemsa's movement from rapidly spreading across the internet. From late 2022 to early 2023, Hemsa would triple the subcount on his main channel,

4:06growing from 500k to over 1.5 million. Hemsa's opening honest approach to self-improvement content allowed him to build a massive community eager to follow his prescribed roadmap to success. Sadly, no one could have anticipated how much Hemsa would change after becoming somewhat of a successful figure, as he began to reveal a dark side of himself no one had seen before. On the 16th of September 2022, Hemsa published a stream highlight to a second channel titled Hemsa Explodes on Anime Profile Pictures. And as the title suggests, the video is meant to ridicule individuals he felt were negatively impacting his audience. Hemsa's range would become even more hated as he commented on videos that were critical

5:08of his stance on self-improvement and claimed the videos were coming from the same people who promoted anime and video games in chat. These people have made videos about me over the last year countless relentless critical videos about me saying that Hemsa's being too hard for one hour of video games is fine. I watched them and I'm just thinking how the f- like they're saying that I'm a bad person because I'm too strict on self-improvement. How am I a bad person from expecting better for my young boys? I see their critical videos about me all the time you can go and search like Hemsa's wrong on YouTube. Although their consuming most forms of entertainment and moderation wouldn't derail someone's self-improvement journey, Hemsa was determined to make his viewers think that any attempt at relaxation would put them behind in life. You already understand life works like a race of men. Any of these pussy's who tell you that they're not competing against the rest of us is f- f- f- lying. You're in competition with me. If you slow down to play one hour of video games I'll f- f- your future wife bro. If you watch anime, guess what I'll do to you-

6:09You're gonna let me run past you in this race bro? Are you honestly gonna- if you're on self-improvement you should be thinking bro. F- f- comes uh. I'm gonna make sure that motherfuckers not running faster than me. Good. Me and you will be worthy competitors. One could argue that Hemsa's words were coming from a place of tough love. But if that- This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents. But choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dies. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dies. That was the case then why did he convey it in such a condescending fashion? What was the logic of putting himself in a pedestal because he didn't consume a particular form of entertainment? Although the overall response to these comments was positive, some viewers recognized Hemsa's faulty reasoning, with comments at red, can't be only me who thinks that Hemsa

7:14is now seeing everything as black and white. As well as nah, I'm starting to think this isn't self-improvement anymore. This is more like a become like Hemsa. Live streams wouldn't be the only place Hemsa expressed some unconventional views of what it meant to be masculine, as he'd make similar comments during his short form upwards. This is gonna sound weird, you'll need to be hit in the face. As a young man, you'll need to be hit in the face consistently. Trust me when I say that's greatly improved your character. When you are under some kind of threat of violence, you become present, you become focused, all of those bullshit thoughts in your mind, those insecure thoughts, disappear. Suddenly, such you in the real world, versus other mad and your objective is told. By the 19th of September 2022, Hemsa would acknowledge the impact live streaming was having on his channel and ask his viewers for advice on what direction to take the channel. Live streaming has been the most intrinsically motivating part of my work that I've ever had before. I am a little bit fearful that it's kind of tainting my character and my brand image of being more like a donner's and peaceful because naturally in this state of like a hyperactive

8:18chart and you get into the emotional, the rant and everything which perform better on live streams. This answer to Hemsa's question would come in the form of a comment that read, Hemsa. The cruisism is due to you doing the opposite of what Hemsa a year ago would have done. The sudden switching content is strange for your viewers. You are a completely different person now. Just don't forget how you started, bro. Build your brand, do your thing. Just don't expect to retain your original audience because you told them to get off YouTube and not watch low-ritching on investment live streams like this one. Despite the obvious drawbacks to branding on stream, Hemsa continued to feed into his egotistical side while masking it as self-improvement advice. Hemsa had gone beyond providing well-meaning advice and was now shaming anyone who made

9:21lifestyle choices he didn't agree with. Naturally, Hemsa's viewers pointed out his shift in behaviour and likened this stream to be something sneaker would make. With comments reading, I love watching you sneaker thanks for another entertaining live stream. As well as, I had subbed to watch actual useful content and maybe get some insight. Not to watch mindless rant in a car. Since Hemsa has started live streaming, I feel like the quality on the channel has taken a massive hit. Rating viewers for straying from a set path was only one of the things that made Hemsa lose his cool on stream. The other one was when anyone questioned his masculinity. You speaking about how masculine you are, mixer, dry-ed and the Sahara, that's it. Are you, are you, Vince, Nair? It's black, I think you should. I think you should date a bro. You seem like a champion who knows about girls better than I do, bro. Hemsa would take things a step further by starting a very heated exchange with a random viewer and to ask him for his discord username. For the next several minutes, Hemsa would repeatedly ask for the viewer's discord name

10:37while taking every opportunity to make fun of him. Your discord, Arevind, come on. Boys, if Arevind doesn't come onto the call with me, I'm just going to end the live stream, and he's made me sad. We need him, everyone spam him and make sure he comes onto a video call with us. Arevind, come on, man. We want to hear about how you feel, because clearly you're better than me. Hemsa's facade of confidence was slowly giving way to insecurity, but it seemed who was too far gone to notice, which escalated things even further. Hugo Orton donated two dollars. Arevind, do it for a while, spy you as well. Showing off your girl is so insecure, self-improvement is masturbation. All you do is tell others to fix their lives while you're a kid yourself. We and you should have a discussion, bro Arevind. Discord call right now, bro, the entertaining. For the rest of the video, Hemsa bounced between trying to justify his actions by claiming he was only making jokes out of hate comments. Can tell what kind of man someone is by their response. So this Arevind guy, I don't know if he's still in the chat or not, but he was just sat here, whilst we were just speaking about self-improvement, he just didn't even hit an arreet.

11:38So now you know, hop onto the Discord course, we can just make fun of him and he'll come in, if that's still there and he'll just be weird, you know, apologize to something. But you can truly tell what kind of person, like a man is, what kind of comments they leave. And deflecting any criticism thrown his way by demanding a fight. Arevind, now I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I make money actually helping others, not just spouting the same bullshit to a far-delus audience. Arevind, you're pissing off a lot of people here Arevind. I think there's like 20 people that would want to fight you. Even though Hamza couldn't see the mistakes he was making, a significant portion of his audience did. And they were very disappointed, with comments reading, Hamza's life has taken a left turn. It's sad to see. Open the best and Toby recovers from being a Jeffrey. Real title. Hamza being a Jeffrey, versus Jeffrey. As well as, this video will be a reminder, not to let my ego take a hold of me. Eventually, Hamza would put an end to the rage-filled live streams, and return to his usual Jeffrey, versus Donnis, and unfiltered content, which was a welcome to change. However, by the 1st of February 2023,

12:39Hamza would make yet another radical shift in his career. With a video titled, I Forfilled My Purpose. You know, I've been on this journey for over two years. Dedicated myself fully to this. Every single day of walk up and thought about spreading this message of self-improvement. This has been my purpose for over two years. This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents. But choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes. I've made the hard decision now to stop this content-production machine.

13:52According to Hamza, the drastic change to the channel was a byproduct of out-dropping the influencer lifestyle. And in pursuit of his personal development. My new layer of my purpose to for me to focus on is my own development as a man. I no longer care about being a YouTuber or an influencer or a celebrity or a man with fame or anything like that. Surprisingly, Hamza would set his sights in a far more adduous path of becoming a fighter. And the angle that it's currently fixated on my mind, my heart and my soul is fighting,

14:52competition, martial arts. That's what I'm throwing myself into fully. While becoming a fighter was Hamza's new direction in life, he still maintained the need to share helpful advice and personal experiences with his audience. What I do still have some positive feeling about is the beauty of passing knowledge to each other. I no longer want to see this as a YouTube channel that I'm trying to grow. I want to see this as me genuinely just sitting down, turning the camera on when I have some actually like really valuable knowledge to give to you. Some really valuable. From the outside looking in, it seemed Hamza had gotten over his egotistical side and was trying to realign his life with a higher purpose. This was the type of change viewers were looking for, as the comment section was flooded with positive messages encouraging Hamza on his latest endeavor. Reading, we must move on and share the knowledge of self-improvement to other young men. Thank you Hamza. As well as, damn dude, you left a hell of a legacy, you are a legend among men,

15:53and I know you're going to succeed in your next purpose. Godspeed brother, and another comment foreshadowing what was going to happen. The next few guides were some of the best Hamza stuff ever, and it was downhill from there. By the following wake, Hamza kept to his promise and uploaded an hour long guide on how his viewers could find purpose in their life. Even though the value derived from the video was subjective, it was a step in the right direction and showed Hamza was committed to improving himself. Today we're going to cover how purpose works as a masculine man, and my intention with this, my hope is that by the end of this video you will be convinced that this is the only way to live. All Hamza had to do to maintain his legacy was keep his ego in check, deliver high quality content whenever he uploaded, and follow through on becoming a fighter. Tragically, Hamza would foreshort on almost all these expectations, and seemingly betray every core value he set up so far. Around a month after Hamza announced his decision to drop content creation and become a fighter, he seemingly returned to a frequent upload schedule.

16:56While the video has had tuned down editing and were fairly long, you wouldn't expect Hamza to start uploading again after claiming he was no longer interested in being a YouTuber. Stranger still, Hamza doubled down on the business side of his platform, with the launch of a Donuts Academy, a monthly membership that offered direct coaching from Hamza, and how young men could take action in self-improvement. That's why I've started and it's something that I'm like selling, so it's like, you know, if you don't want to spend money, you can click away, absolutely no problem. My videos are still free, the Discord server is still there and everything. The major selling point for Hamza's new community was three weekly calls that allowed members to ask for advice on topics like health, wealth, and relationships. Three calls a week, which will be split up into the areas of health, wealth, and relationships. So on Monday will have a call, Wednesday will have a call, Friday will have a call, health, wealth, relationships on each one. Although Hamza had offered paid products before, the difference this time was that instead of selling pre-recorded content, Hamza was taking his time directly to teach in mental members. Just wait in the deal, Hamza would also include other perks, like access to his previous

18:14$400 courses, exclusive meetups in the UK, and to dedicated video lessons, or for $99 a month. It will be $99 a month, which is a recurring membership, so every month it will be $99. This is usually where the salesman and stuff they'll try and justify the price and they'll tell you, like, oh yeah, but it is worth it because there's been a rule. Literally, it's $99 a month, it's a recurring membership. The top link in the description, you can go check out, go click that right now. I'm not going to try and justify it to you. Even though majority of fans were thought to be a part of Hamza's new direction for the channel, there were also those who were still curious about what happened to his fighter career. By the 1st of June 2023, Hamza would publish a video explaining why becoming a fighter was no longer his purpose, and the reason he was more focused on making more money. So a few months ago, I posted a video saying that I had fulfilled my purpose and that I was going to go into the mountains to go train martial arts, and I still received comments of why I didn't do that. I thought you weren't going to become a fighter. Now I explained

19:15in a video already, but I put it in like, you know, it was like two hours into the video, so a lot of people didn't see it. So I just wanted to explain it here because I still see comments about it. Hamza would go on to state that this episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents, but choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dies. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dies. At after the first day at the fight camp, he felt the experience quote didn't feel authentic. And I just asked myself a question, is this authentic? Is this genuinely where I want to be, what I want to focus on, or just be honest? Are you here right now because it'll get you validation from people online? It's worth remembering that no one

20:17asked Hamza to become a fighter. In fact, he chose that path because he assumed it would be a masculine thing to do, and at the time he didn't sound like he was trying to impress anyone. After all, he fights his entire team, and told viewers he was no longer interested in vanity metrics like subscribers or ad revenue. Hamza had always been the type of creator that spoke about things with conviction, and a black and white mentality, but after going against his own standards, he decides it's time to move the goalposts. In an effort to justify this decision, Hamza claimed his true fans would gladly jump at the product he was selling, and that any critique for said product was coming from Jeffries.

21:26For the rest of the video, Hamza would present his move to teach selling courses as the best way to help his male audience. However, was Hamza truly equipped to lecture people and had to be business owners, or was he simply going to sell viewers on a dream and tell them to copy his formula of selling self-improvement courses? The idea is like, you learn how to make a community, you get paid for, you bring people who have similar interests together, because I genuinely think by the way, I'll just give you a random tip, I genuinely think there's one business model which is the best right now, like possible, and it's private communities. At the end of the day, Hamza was free to take his channel in any direction he saw fit, however, this changed mentality would mark the beginning of a very turbulent time in Hamza's community, as the focus shifted away from what was best for men more towards what Hamza thought was best. By October, 2023, Hamza would announce a new chapter in his life of starting a family.

22:28I've moved into the, and the rural mountains of Scotland with my woman, and soon we're going to buy a home and we're going to have children, I'm going to move up my family here, I'm going to move up like families that I love, and I'm going to create this dream into a reality, but basically I'm starting the fatherhood chapter of my life. Hamza was so convicted that this was the right decision to take things that he would change his channel description to reflect it, with a description reading preparing to be a father. Unfortunately, similar to his previous life altering plans, Hamza wouldn't follow through with it, and decided to go for the easier option. In a now deleted video, Hamza would describe how a date with a Russian woman changed his perspective on Western women. I'm sat here with this genuinely beautiful but also very, very intelligent, based, sophisticated, classy young woman, like, very impressive, that's what I'll say, it's very, very impressive. Naturally, Hamza's view was wondered why he was going on another path

23:30when he just announced the fatherhood chapter of his life, and it wouldn't be long before they got an answer. The reason why me and my ex split up is because we did this little exercise together, where I told her to sit down and to write down the co-goals and the season of life that she wanted to get in, so she was both of us had our laptops out, and we wrote about, okay, for the next few months, what kind of life do we want to live? Hamza went on to explain that him and his ex-girlfriend wanted to go on separate paths in life, that weren't compatible. But she saw it and I'm not going to lie, like, I could see how, like, offended she was, where she was quite, like, pressuring, she was like, wait, you want to do this? You want to do that? You want to stay up late, but that's one healthy, and I understood, you know, it is fair enough what I'm saying is, like, oh yeah, like, I kind of want to be a little bit more sleep deprived, and she just couldn't really see that this was like me just being authentic, but this was the life I wanted to live, so there was quite a lot of, like, judgment from her, and when I saw that judgment, I thought, yeah, like, maybe we're not actually compatible for the next season. As you'd expect, Hamza's audience wasn't very pleased with his indecisive attitude, and constantly changing opinions, with comments reading, what I learned from this video is that I wouldn't take advice from Hamza on maintaining long-term

24:34relationships, as well as, you promised her the world, but you couldn't even keep your word, you were the problem here mate, this guy changes his opinions every month, making bold claims to his audience and immediately going back on his word, or changing his opinion, was becoming a very common occurrence in Hamza's videos. In the past, Hamza claimed men should focus on finding a quote, high quality woman, and settle down, but now that he was faced with the same reality, he backed out, and his other opinions and men dedicated themselves to improving their minds and body, gave way to telling men to make as much money as possible, by paying for his monthly membership, speaking of words, should by early 2024, one of Hamza's former students would come out with less than positive opinions about their time in his paid community. On the 5th of January, a user by the name of Dante would upload a video detailing the more darker aspects to Hamza's adonus school. One morning, Hamza posted something that would cause mass panic among the members. He said by the end of the day, he would be kicking over 100 low contributing members. Now keep in mind, some of these people paid $500 to join, and were being threatened by the

25:37ban hammer. Although it seems homes were just gaging the price, people were going to pay, and then kicking those who got in at a lower price. To add insult to injury, Hamza would end up kicking everyone out of the community anyway. This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents, but choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes. More time and money. Just to reopen it, in charge of $500 one time entry fee. Dante went on to elaborate on his time in Hamza Academy in an interview with a creator named Regan Nice.

26:58To show just how manipulative Hamza was when confronted with his own failing, Dante shared a comment he left under one of his videos. This is really sad Dante, you were a great student. I hope you want to mom with your mom's passing. I agree to go on a call with your father. You seem to fit in and love it on a school so much. He made multiple testimonial videos, fame it was great, after that they were defected. Not only was Hamza willing to deflect criticism by weaponizing such an intimate detail of someone's life, but he also saw no issue with sending his viewers after him. So you got a 27-year-old man telling a framing of 15-year-old kid as the bad guy and then sending hundreds of thousands of his audience to go and talk crap on your land. Something about

28:02that just doesn't sit right with me. On the 4th of August 2024, Hamza responded to the situation by providing his side of the story. In a video titled Hamza responds to the scammer video, he'd reveal evidence which displayed that Dante made the video out of bad faith in order to slander his name, providing screenshots showing Dante's testimonials and success within his group, as well as going into just our fire went as a port Dante, which included sending him his personal necklace as well as a handwritten letter. You know what I did? I didn't send him a DM. I did not send him a DM about this video that he posted. I got a piece of paper and a pen and I hand-wrote him a letter. I took off my necklace that I was wearing in like all the videos or it was like a silver one and I posted it to the US. Hamza sent me personal gifts like this necklace and this note. He says that I never helped him and he said this multiple times and like podcasts that he's

29:04went on to try and like attack me in my brand and here's a message from him. I wanted to express gratitude for the necklace and the handwritten notes you gave me. I haven't taken the necklace off since I got it and the note genuinely made me tear up. Your great example of what a leader should be like, charismatic and selfless. I don't know the word for this but you do things like writing notes and picking up things for your cult members like your fans and as a picture of me with the necklace. To make matters worse, he also displayed evidence of Dante breaking about the video's performance which made the entire situation appear though, Dante used and enjoyed Hamza's service and then turned on him when he could gain some clouds or make a profit. But despite this, Hamza still received a lot of criticism. Hamza's inability to notice his own faults and biases had slowly eaten away his reputation and it would take a very stone interview with Chris Williamson for him to even begin to see that. The problem you have there is as soon as you posit an ideal you can then compare yourself to that ideal and if this ends up being wrong, like if actually the thing that you need to do is become

30:06a fighter because fighting man have always been warriors and then three weeks later you're like, I don't know, fighting is not for me and then it's like I'm in my dad era like I can't wait to start for ahhh relationships gone. Like the more hard the stake is that you hit into the ground the more difficult it's going to be to pull back out. When Hamza initially started the Adonis movement, he based on five simple values, discipline, humility, presence, gratitude and leadership. Sadly, Hamza failed to live up to three of these values multiple times in his career. Hamza frequently presents his opinions as bold fact that his impressionable audience should emulate when even he couldn't meet the standards he set. However, it seems Hamza wasn't too far gone to notice his mistakes. In one of his recent videos titled, I Fall Of Self Improvement, Hamza would acknowledge some of his faults and attempt to earn up to them. Because I'd see it with you know, kind of a Gregor and athletes and everything they always discipline themselves in the early days then they build success and then they just lose it all because of random mistakes that they made. And I always used to see that and be like, oh yeah, not me bro, not me and then I despise myself in this situation because when you do reach

31:10success it's like it's so easy for everyone who hype you up for it to get to your head. Hamza would even try to say things from the perspective of his viewers and took note of how difficult it would be to watch their favourite crowd make easily avoidable mistakes. And I must say from your perspective it must have been annoying as fuck and like cringe they're so fucking cringe. The see me make decisions that I didn't even stick to where I'd randomly flip flop and change my mind. Although the video showed Hamza trying to be authentic, the comment section would tell a completely different story. Before Hamza was able to delete it, Regan screenshot it a comment so that showed the intentions behind the upload. As expected instead of just being a man and owning up to his mistakes, Hamza's ego wouldn't allow that and he had to place some sort of manipulation game. Unfortunately he made one lethal mistake which was forgetting to perception manage in the comments from the get-go. He let his little mask slip off, insulted Dante once again and lied in the comments and then later deleted the evidence when he figured out his mistake. Even after his ego-driven

32:10actions had tonished his reputation, chased away a significant portion of the Adonis school members and caused his viewership to stagnate, Hamza was still being disingenuous with his community. Whether or not this behaviour will continue is completely up to Hamza. Will he truly put his ego aside and become an Adonis or will he hold on to it and remain a Jeffrey?