Why Most Golfers Focus on the Wrong Things | Strategy & Mindset with Dave Cooper

I missus must hate me, I met my missus at the golf club.

Welcome everyone to the Birdie Golf Club podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me this week.

It has been a great week of golf.

Obviously really enjoyable weekend of golf.

Great to see how it all played out

with the Genesis invitation.

We obviously had the Tiger Woods news,

which was pretty cool.

Right, that Tiger's not counting out the masters.

That gets us all pretty excited.

And then just in general, a really cool tournament.

It looked like it was just going to be Bridgeman's tournament.

And that was it on the Sunday.

Obviously winning with such a big lead,

you just felt like, is this really going to happen?

And then the way I'm folded, the way Rory fought back,

the way the rest of the field obviously kind of kept up pace.

And then naturally, Jacob Bridgeman's going to be nervous.

I mean, the guy went from last weekend

having an absolutely calamitous final hole pill, which

holding up, calling him or a gourd,

being a big problem.

He was a problem last week.

I talked about it on the pod.

And then to hold his nerve, to get it down,

to get it over the line.

OK, he's shot, I think, plus one, plus two,

maybe on the day, I think it's plus one.

On the day, which definitely wouldn't have been his intention

going in, but imagine the nerves.

You think of the nerves you have trying

to shoot your best round, which could be, let's face it,

a 90.

And the nerves you have going up the 18th hole,

or that final stretch of the last three holes,

to be able to hold out and do enough to beat off the likes

of Rory, McElroy, and everything like that was pretty

unbelievable.

So I feel like the golf season's really ramping up,

and it's exciting.

And I hope you're all enjoying it, too.

And I can't wait.

I think I'm going to definitely do a live stream slash

watcher-long type sort of thing when it comes to the masters,

just for the Sunday, for the final day.

So hopefully you're all interested in that.

If you are, let me know in the comments.

That'll be pretty exciting.

That'll be on YouTube Instagram.

And so on.

I do want to get to this week's guest,

because whilst this weekend's round of golf was exciting,

perhaps your last round of golf wasn't that exciting.

And you'd like it to become exciting.

If that's the case, I think this week's guest

is going to be perfect for you.

We've got Postman's part, Cooper coming on.

And he is just a really nice guy, first of all.

That's what I want to stress most of all,

such a supportive guy in the space,

but also gives such practical advice to everyone

that needs it for the golf course.

He's not a golf swing guru, or anything

I like, doesn't claim to be.

But what he is is a specialist in course management

and eaking out every bit of potential

that you can from your game.

He's a great follow on Instagram,

head over to Postman's part on Instagram,

and check him out with all the stuff

that he comes out with there.

Some amazing statistical stuff,

which you may not have thought of before.

And just some great viewpoints on the game of golf.

And we get into his journey,

what brought him to the space,

and what his hopes are for the future as well,

and how what he can sort of provide

can help average golfers get better at the game,

and better golfers get better at the game as well.

I think Coops Off Plus 2.

So his actual name is Dave,

and we start the podcast with him basically

saying that Dave's a boring name,

and that all of us Dave's are pretty much the same.

So I hope you enjoy that sort of bit

as we go into it right now.

I took it well, is what it is.

Dave is pretty boring, but anyway,

let's get to it.

This week's episode with Postman's part

as Dave Cooper, enjoy.

Ha, ha, ha.

Start the podcast with Dave,

not being happy with Dave, which is insane.

Yeah, no.

Yeah, it's not a good idea.

I think it's so like,

it's so Monday, Monday, is that the word?

Yeah.

I mean, my dad was saying it.

Everyone's Dave.

Yeah, my dad was Dave.

And I, so I don't know if I've said it on the podcast before,

my nickname is actually Dub, right?

All my family.

Really?

All like my like close mates from when I was younger,

literally called me Dub before they called me Dave

because my dad was Dave.

Yeah.

And I wasn't like, you know what I mean?

So he's just, what did we call him?

Yeah.

And Dub just stuck one day and that was it.

So yeah, I'm happy people don't call me in this, in this world.

It's good, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like you said, my name, my name's always been, it was never Dave.

My mom, my nan, maybe my dad from time to time.

My dad's nickname was Cooperman.

And I was Cooper ever since I was playing kicking a football.

Yeah.

So what do we go with tonight?

So we go with Cooper, what would you like?

Hey, you're the main man in the block.

Can you go for it, mate?

I've been called everything under the sun, mate.

So all right, let's go.

I'll go with Cooper because it's nice and easy.

And it rolls off the tongue nicely, you know?

Yeah, nice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sweet.

No draw.

Well, thanks for joining me, mate.

Like this, we've been setting this up for a little while,

both been looking forward to it, sort of.

We've got a mutual friend in Lee.

Yeah.

I mean, like he's, he's, he's always, you know,

he's don't get enough credit.

He knows absolutely everybody else out there as much as he can.

Yeah, he is, I was talking to him this week,

and he said that he slept like 24 hours in the past like week.

Yeah.

I was like, he's got more hours in a day than everybody else.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

I want to say it's not sustainable,

but his personality suggests that it, that it, that it might be.

It might be just, yeah, it will say to me,

I, my, if I have too much sleep,

then I just, my body doesn't work properly.

And then if you wake up, like you wake up in the morning,

you're like, I'm going to bed.

It's like 11 o'clock, finished texting,

then like wake up and I'm like 131 AM.

Come up with this idea.

What do you think?

I'm like, it's awful in the morning, man.

Go sleep, bro.

It's crazy in a, crazy.

He might just be the outlet, right?

It just might work for him.

Yeah.

I just live until he's 120, just literally never sleeping.

It's crazy.

Obviously, I've had Leon before and he was a great chat

and very much along the same lines I wanted to have you on

because your content and what you produce

is I find really interesting.

And it's a space that definitely needs more exploring

in the, in the golf content community.

But I really wanted to get to groups, it was your story.

Like, who is the postman's part?

Like, where, where did you come from?

Give me the load down.

Let's, let's go way back.

Let's go way back first of all.

What's your earliest memory?

OK, earliest memory of golf.

Oh, golf came, do you want the full story?

Yeah, I want it all gone.

Right, golf came from football.

Started out playing football.

Always a chubby kidder was.

So as everybody got faster, I started not

being able to keep up, I was technically good enough.

Just didn't have the fitness because I was always just eating

crap, really.

I'll still do that now.

I'm a bit better with it.

But, and then my dad was part of the football team.

He then got to, I started getting put on the bench.

And I was like, no, this sounds like really up your own thing.

But I just wasn't a bench player.

I could not watch, sit down, watch people play football

when I knew I was just as good as them.

So one day my dad said, have you had enough sun?

I said, yeah, let's, let's get out of here.

And he said, I'm going to go to the golf range

because my dad did play golf.

So we went down the range.

And literally from the first time I ever at a golf ball,

I was like addicted to the game.

So it was, like, and I always had good hand-like

ordination, like I'd play, I played number one for my school

badminton team.

I grew up at a play school, blabbing wetson and boys

school, where it was a boys club, where they had table tennis,

pool, indoor to a side.

Edmonton courts would come out every now and then.

So you always got to use your hands and a ball technique.

Yeah, yeah.

So I think that's where it came from,

whether that was natural or whether it was, don't know,

just hard work of being there every week.

So then, yeah, then the golf came into it.

And I was just addicted.

And then my whole family was quite supportive really

because it was up the road.

It took you out from off the street as well.

Do you know what I mean?

From some of your mates, like at our age,

I don't know how old you are, to be fair, never asked.

But yeah, I'm 33, I'm 33.

OK, so yeah, you'd have been in my ear.

I'm 35, going to be 36.

Like we were on the streets as kids.

And that's the last generation I know that used to go out.

But then they took me down the golf course and I just used to play

and play and play.

And then I just used to play with the bloke.

So I've always been kind of a hockey kid.

I'm always that guy to ask and not worry about it.

Like people always say to me, you can't really say that.

I'm like, well, why not?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, you don't even know the bloke.

You don't even know the bloke yet.

I'm like, yeah, but I want to know the answer to that question

or I want to know what he does for a living

or how he got that Lamborghini and...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So observing.

So yeah, then from honestly, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

But I think from the age of about 12 to 22,

so for 10 years, I can't remember missing many days

without a golf club in my heart.

That's what a good guy would say.

And big chunk of time as well, isn't it?

Really, you know, to dedicate to the game that way.

And then I didn't get to scratch till I was...

I think it was like 20.

So it took like eight years.

And by the way, I mean, eight years of like highs, lows,

getting beat up by people who are at my club

who were better than me by just one or two shots.

And that was just...

It was a small margin you used to just...

Didn't have it if you're off like two or three

and the lads are off scratch or plus one.

You just...

You didn't get a sniff.

You had to be so on your game.

Yeah, yeah.

That's...

Oh, yeah, then...

Yeah, that's amazing.

I mean...

That sort of crossover from football and golf

seems to happen like all the time as well, doesn't it?

Of like...

Especially with people now sort of falling out of love

with the game and stuff.

It'll be more rare probably in our era, wasn't it?

Because there was...

There was so much football around.

And golf just wasn't...

Well, yeah.

Golf just wasn't a cool sport to play.

Was it like...

No, it wasn't.

It is now all the lads who were playing 40

or just started playing golf.

Yeah, I'm so jealous of kids.

Nowadays, with all the options, there is in golf form as well.

You know what I mean?

When it comes to their outfits and just like viewing

like how much they can learn now from like YouTube

and all those places to kind of pick up the game.

It just wasn't really around in like the early 2000s, say,

like when kind of you got into golf, it just wasn't cool, you know?

And so to stick with it for the 10 years from 12 to like 22,

was probably equally as rare for that period of time.

Yeah.

And I just think it's like, I always have this argument

with myself like, so many people say to you like,

why don't you go for it?

And I'm like, I'm so far off it.

Like so far.

I always say the person who asked me, I said,

what's your handicap?

Let's say they're 18.

I say, I am an 18 handicap or do a Roy McRoy?

Of plus one.

I am that far off it.

Yeah.

These boys, when you go watch these boys live,

they are disgustingly good.

Man, I don't know.

They have it on a piece of string.

It is that he's like such a good comparison

because people do think that they think,

well, look, he's shot level par today.

You can do that.

You can beat that.

And it's like, yeah, look, look where he's shot level par round.

And by the way, he didn't have it today.

Yeah, he's playing Paul.

And this is the argument I always have.

I try and say like, I get came in the comments quite a bit.

Like, it's not about, I have this thing about distance.

Like, it's not about distance.

It is when you get to a certain level of the game.

What most of us are playing round courses that are like six,

five to six, seven, six eight,

you haven't got to hit it long.

Yes, when you get on the PGO tour,

you understand the stats say,

that the longer you hit it, the better you are.

But you're not even getting to that level ever.

Like, the average goal for me and you,

one less three put around,

one less tough chip, one better decision.

Now you're three, four shots better.

Do that for five rounds.

You've come down three shots.

Yeah.

No, I couldn't agree more, mate, too, honest.

Like, I had, I had Scott Fawcett on the podcast.

And obviously he's a big,

what a bro.

And mate, amazing mind it.

And Alex, Alex Wang is what I had on the pod.

And like both of them have an amazing mind for golf.

But even they will say the decade system,

the principles are in place for everyone,

but kind of the specific decade strategies,

really for the top level of golf.

That's kind of where Scott pushes it towards.

The hit it as far as you can,

get a wedge in your hand as early as you can.

That is for certain type of courses that are playing.

But the idea that people think,

you know, like courses are narrow in the UK.

We don't have as much room, right?

We just don't have as much room.

And they're narrow over here.

And you've got guys,

and I'm just as bad as everyone else,

where I think, yeah,

but we sweet to get another 50, 60 yards up there, wouldn't they?

And then you're hitting driver

when you should be hitting like a five iron six iron.

Like that would be enough.

Keep it in play.

I'm going to commit the set I'm playing tomorrow.

I'm going to commit the same mistakes.

But I'm completely with you on that,

because I think the biggest issue in my game,

as like a pretty average golfer,

and most people's game,

is the amount of penalty shots they have.

Yeah, just low hanging fruit in it.

I just think that the only thing I can't get my head around

to like kind of like guarantee what I'm saying.

And now I'm right in terms of the short game side of it.

But if you can get rid of the people

that slice it out of bounds,

like that's where I'm looking to try and sort out

I can you narrow that down.

Because obviously, I'm going to say to everybody,

I was talking playing with Lady of the Week.

We played C-croft in Skegness.

I don't know if you've ever heard of it,

but it's a Link's golf course.

A couple of hours from us.

The golf course is on your left.

Yeah.

Just hit it left.

Yeah.

There's out of bounds.

There's the road all the way down the right and side.

I said, just aim left.

There's nothing there.

Like there's no trouble.

There's no light stupidly high roof.

We can play from there.

We can't play from off the road.

And I own like the games,

but it games so hard, so mentally tough.

Because you have all these lessons

and you just want to do what your coach is told you

and you just want to try and stripe it straight.

What your bad one goes right.

And it's trying to not, but I'd say this.

And this is the reason why I started this page

and I'm a bit of a niche market.

Because I've played with Lads who was so much better than me

and who I've competed with over the years

with my counter.

And they all are ball strikers.

Whereas I was the opposite.

I just tried to hit it where there was not trouble

that was going to kill me.

And then I'd chip and put.

I'm a very, very good putter on my day.

So I just think some so scared of the green.

Not every hole is stupidly tough.

So just on the really tough holes,

you just hit it where the best,

like it's trying to understand and get people

to understand what the best misses every shot.

There's a strategy to every shot.

And I don't people, I don't think people think about.

If you thought about the strategy

as much as you think about putting a bad swing on it,

you'd be twice as good a player.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's where I think the, I think that's where,

that's what I'm trying to push.

It's a hard market.

So where did this, you're sort of like philosophies in golf.

Where did they, where did they come from?

Is it from purely your own experience?

Or did you have like a mentor in the game?

Or was it like a collection of people full on,

full on experiences mate?

Just I've played against so many good players

that are unbelievable at the game.

And like you say, growing up being a good player,

but only like a two, three handicap when you're 16, 17.

You're playing against this grown men

who are off scratching plus one and they're lying it by.

So length to you was never like,

I wasn't thinking in my head,

I need to hit it as far as them.

I'm thinking outside the box, how do I beat them?

And I think it was slightly look

because they come from a family

that didn't have a lot of money.

So we'd get enough to have a bucket of balls.

I did the video on this, like a bucket of balls,

some cheesy chips and a Coke.

That would have got a five or a got you all out.

You won't go out now.

You won't get out now.

I went in and got a Pepsi in a bag of Christy other day

and it was five pounds.

A can.

And blowing in it.

I was blown away.

I was like, but I went in and put it like it was nothing.

That's normal.

And then I came away.

I was like, what?

Yeah, so we're then, but we had a chip in our putting green

because I played at a moon reciprocal.

I got brought up a moon reciprocal golf club.

And which was always looked down on in our counter

because it was, it was a bit rough around the edges.

You had the best clubhouse in the counter.

What area were you originally from?

I'm from Leicester.

I'm still living Leicester.

And it's a place called Wetson Golf Club.

And it's like not a great golf course,

but the bar always had unbelievable food.

Like it was a great restaurant.

And the beer was cheap.

So for the mother, for the average working man,

it was an absolute place to be.

I'm cheap, obviously cheap membership.

Yeah, yeah.

So and then getting back to the point was the fact that like

once we'd hit balls, we couldn't hit anymore.

So we had to chip and pull.

And that's how we learned to be obviously fairly decent

short game players.

And I think that's why I mentally push it.

Because that's how I did it.

Everything that I've done on my channel is

I'm trying to talk to the younger me,

trying to give everybody that experience

that I've got over the last 20 years of playing.

I would have loved this information

when I was like 15, 20 years old.

So that I'm just constantly trying to talk to that person,

whether it's a junior,

leader, man,

senior,

like not everybody's got this information.

They don't get to play with these players

that have got this knowledge.

So that's just what I try to do every day.

I love that.

I love that because you, I think we grew up in near where

you could go up a golf club and you could be there all day.

Your parents weren't around,

like there was obviously golfers that were part of it.

You think now, obviously, with all the,

and unfortunately these things have to come in

with all the safeguarding that goes on now in the game.

Do you think that's going to probably rub

some of these juniors of the same experience that you had?

Absolutely.

When I went on like,

Lee's started his podcast

and obviously we're good,

we're good mates I sat on there with him.

And we were talking about how I used to go out

on the golf course late at night.

And we just used to stay on a whole for honestly hours.

Well, what felt like hours?

Three, like three of us all mates,

all similar handicaps,

or even a high handicap,

or you're teaching other lads out,

they want to learn from you because you're better.

And we would just stay chip over bonkers and stuff.

And he was like,

either stories about people getting lobbed out of golf courses

and memberships revoked and stuff.

And I'm like, do you know what?

Like, if you had a fairly decent short game area,

I'll let you off.

But most courses haven't.

So I know that's probably like kind of an angry comment.

I just think, geez,

like you've paid your membership,

as long as they're not wrecking the course

and taking massive divots.

But come off.

Yeah, he's a shame and it is a shame

because I think so much emphasis.

I think it was funny with golf.

It went through like these sort of periods

where these kids were all being taught one swing,

which is probably a little bit more

our sort of era maybe,

where if you've got a lesson,

they wanted to make you look like Adam Scott, right?

And say, well,

I am not a six foot two and really beautiful, right?

Okay.

I am not going to look like you can try

as much as you like my swing.

He's not going to be like Adam Scott.

I don't have that.

You're not like a Dave.

Yeah, I'm a Dave.

All right.

And never forget you're a Dave two keeps, all right?

Okay.

But what I think now is that the game

has moves on away from that

and way more to play your own game.

But it's just whether the same ability

is there for people to have the time on course

or the time practicing the key fundamentals

to really become their best version of themselves at golf.

I don't know if that ability is there as easily

as what it was maybe 20 years ago.

I think the game has gone in a great direction

because I remember having my first lessons

and it was all taught about how to swing the club

like properly, like Adam Scott.

You had an Adam Scott and you had a Tiger Woods.

They were the people,

and you know, all these people who did it to textbook.

But then this is where the game of golf is so good

because then you had people like Dustin Johnson come

through the ranks with this massive boat wrist at the top

and there was like, you can Jim Fiorek.

All these people who literally did it their own way

and they learned a golf swing that they could repeat

and their coaches would then,

when they were playing bad,

would know what they were doing when they were playing good

and just revert back to that.

And find that sweet spot.

Like I had just a story on Jordan's speed this week.

Like he's looking back at videos from 2015.

I think it was.

Mike, I might have that wrong,

but I definitely, I watched a video this week.

And he's trying to get the club back into the positions

that he had it at in 2015.

And that's what I mean.

Like people have their prime games when they were good

and it felt, and it's the feeling that you have as a player.

Like your coach can't tell you what you feel.

And that's what I think players need to chase.

They need to chase the feelings

that they get in these certain positions.

And then you can, you can go with it, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely.

Do you plan on going into golf swing as much

or are you more like course management,

game management sort of?

Is that your niche?

I don't, my niche is strategy followed up with your game.

And the reason that I did that is because I am obsessed

with the golf swing and ate my golf swing on camera.

But I think there's so many ways to teach it.

And if I told you how to swing it,

I could be writing a certain aspect.

And I'm not a pro.

But then I don't think like,

this isn't that massively bold statement to say.

But I've had lessons off-pros that I can beat, Rod.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm not saying that that's a bad thing

because pros are standing and watching people all day long.

So they understand it.

Whereas I just think there's so many ways

to swing a golf club.

I'd rather talk about the things that change the game

for me because I used to be,

I'm talking too much, I don't know if you're not.

I used to be that kid that if we were playing

for a five hour, I would win.

And then when it came to a medal on a Saturday,

I would blow my load and shoot loads over.

Because I would let the pressure get to me

because I'd make it a bigger thing than it was.

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And then we had a car in meeting one weekend

and they brought a psychologist in

because everybody was talking about Lincolnshire

that they were the best car and they were gonna be

as how do we beat them?

So they brought a psychologist in,

got us to change up mindset on how we view

Lincolnshire as a team.

This is true story, God's on his truth.

And I thought after all these years

of spending all these money

because I used to have lessons all the time

that I didn't need anymore lessons, I needed him.

And I went and had two separate hour sessions with him,

changed my golfing game forever

and that's the reason I believe I'm still off a low handicap

because I don't practice anywhere near as much as I used to.

I just understand the game a lot better.

So was it was that purely like mindset?

And it was that mindset based, yeah?

Purely mindset, purely my problems were

is I didn't wanna let people down.

I was invested in learning so much about the swing

and the chipper and the putter

that I would then bring it into my own game

when I'm not gonna chip it like Sergio Garcia.

Even if I've seen him do something

and then I would go out and try it.

That was a bad habit for me

because I watched so much golf as well.

And the other thing was I put things on a pedestal

because I wanted them so bad.

So we use, we have four majors in Leicester.

They're like four majors like they do on the tour.

And every time we'd have a major, I'd blow up.

Like I'd literally just squeeze over the cut line

so I'd be able to get in the county shirt

only because of the lads who would be Iron Man

were doing the same.

I just wheeled myself over that line

just in front of them and I'd get picked last.

Which is absolutely fine

because I just wanted to wear the red shirt.

This is where all my colors have come from

because our characters are red and black.

And then I knew once the pressure would go

and I could play like I was playing for that five,

I was gonna give myself the best chance

of beating anyone.

I was gonna say I was gonna destroy people.

When he came to, yeah, when he came to match play,

I just had this, keep on my shoulder that I wasn't gonna lose.

And then this is where like the postman came from

because I was like a mini polter.

But okay, I was gonna ask you where that came from,

makes sense to him.

I get, I used to give it obviously cocky with the lads

like behind closed doors like,

I'm gonna get this guy's afternoon,

like he's got no chance and then I'd win.

And then not all the time, not all the time.

But like I didn't even play at the highest level.

So I can't go out there gloting like I'm the best golfer ever

because I only played a couple of first team games

for the county.

I was like the number one for the second.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I'd just fill in for the first.

But that was also because our first team was that good.

Like you struggling.

So and that's where it came from.

One of the lads at the county used to call me the postman

and like it was just a mini polter thing

and then that's where I started it.

And I just thought, you know what?

It's a bit of a laugh.

I put it in Chatchy PT.

We messed about with it and we called it the postman's part.

I love it.

I love it.

And do you think, do you think that's like such difficult?

Is it difficult to call it low hanging through

for most golfers to have a better mindset?

Because you know, how easy is it to attain a better mindset?

You know, you got it from that expert,

you know, where you spent time with him

to be able to impart into what you'd learnt

in that small bit of time you spent with him before

to then go and follow up on that.

Easy, easy nowadays for an average golfer

to have a better mindset.

I think it's contradicting because I think you can tell yourself

and you tell people that you need to think better.

But if they've just carved two in a row,

they're going to struggle to think about.

Yeah.

It's kind of getting people to understand

how to control their emotions

while they're on the golf course.

But I think that's a massive thing,

but then you can contradict that, Tira Latton.

So it loses mind every time.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And it works for him.

That's his way of leveling.

Don't I?

That's just his way of a need to get to this.

And then I'll be fine for the next shot.

But that wouldn't work.

Yeah, but that's okay if you can let it go.

And I don't like, I did a video on Simon Dyson.

I've been chatting to Simon Dyson quite a bit.

He's an ex-European tour player, one, seven or nine times.

And he literally went on his own channel

and said that he was three under par.

He's ball over the back on 16, got over there

and couldn't find it.

Lost his head, finished one over par for the round.

Went on it, went on his channel the following day,

went out, shot four under par, hit it worse,

but just told himself before he went out

that he was just gonna have a positive mindset

and take every shot one at a time

and forget it after he's it.

And bang, shoots four under par and don't hit it as good.

Did that swear it's out?

Do you know what I mean?

Would you say that's like that piece of advice there of,

and it is like that sort of advice

you're hearing football in there one game at a time,

all those types of things, you can't hit,

you can't hit all 70, you know,

if you're trying to shoot level par,

you can't hit all 72 shots in one.

So you've got to take it one shot at a time,

but is that piece of advice of just going to each shot

with a positive mindset and forget the last one?

Is that the best advice that you could give someone?

Couldn't, I have a wicked yet, yes, it is

because this is how relatable it is.

How many times of you, or do you know of players

who are on for their best score

with three or four holes to go and blow up?

I've done it many times because they've got one and,

and I used to do it all the time,

this is why I say this to people,

because I, and don't get me wrong,

if you still fall into one habit,

Simon Dyson did it, he's played on the European tour.

He's got some experience.

Like, you never, you're not tiger woods,

you're not gonna be able to create that in a like,

blackout mode where you just go in,

you can go into a bubble,

but it's, don't put your hand on the trophy

before you've got the trophy.

Like, everybody gets like one hand on,

they're so close, and then because they're so close,

they try that little bit more,

or you tell yourself you're on for a good score,

it happens after nine hours,

when people have the score after nine hours, Jesus.

Jesus, Bill, you're having a good nine,

you're five under your handicap.

10 over back nine.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's just, it's in there.

I don't, don't tell me, I don't want to know.

No, I think you're a hundred percent sure.

I'm trying to think, basically,

I've had a few occasions where,

for me, like breaking 80s,

it's something I've done,

but something I want to do more this year.

I want to get comfortable in the 70s, basically.

That's my goal this year.

But I'm aware that that is a school-focused goal,

and then that gets you in score mode,

of like, right, how do I be?

To say if I'm, you know,

coming down the back nine and sound lost three holes,

I'm like six over, and I'm like, right,

now I need to just defend pause, right?

I just need par, par, par, par,

so I'm going into defensive mode,

and it just, it will all fall apart

without a shadow of a doubt,

because I'm thinking that long-term goal,

and it's bigger that,

all the things we've spoken about, right?

It's bigger than what it is over Southern.

It's a year-long goal thing.

It's a lifelong goal thing for me and golf

to be good in the 70s,

and my best nine holes I ever played

was after I had the worst front nine,

probably ever had at my local course.

I think I was like something like 12 over

or something through nine, or 12 or 14,

maybe 14 over, and it was the day was done,

and I just, I turned to my,

and it is a score thing again,

but I turned to the guys with, and I just went,

mate, you know what, I'm just going to go out,

I'm going to shoot a level par back nine,

and everything's going to be fine again,

and we both burst out laughing,

because my golf game on that day

was not level par goal through nine, right?

It was a struggle,

like I nearly broke some clubs,

but what I didn't do was repeat that saying

for the rest of the back nine.

I'd said it, I'd sort of gone,

yeah, sure, I'm going to shoot a level par,

and I just took each shot as it comes,

I don't remember much of that back nine,

I'll shoot a level par back nine.

There you go, because you just, you got in that,

that bubble that is like,

they've talked about it all the time,

it's hard to get in there,

but I just want to go back to a little point

you were talking about there,

where you were trying to defend your score.

I did that for years, and I still do,

because the pressure heats up, it gets hard,

but I used to play with a lad,

called Sean Corber,

and he was one of the best golfers I've ever come across,

and he was my best mate for like 10 years.

We played golf together all the time,

and whereas I'd be having a good round,

and I'd be trying to defend it

at a couple under on the way in,

and probably shoot level,

I witnessed him shoot seven or eight under par,

and our golf course, it was a dog leg left,

R3, wore a big pond down the left,

and you're like, so what is he?

He's five or six under par playing the last,

and I'm thinking, you've just not been five iron down here,

do you know what I mean?

And then you just, you wedge it on,

he's unbelievable with a wedge.

No, three wood, I stand on the seat,

remember asking him, swear to God,

why are you eating three wood here?

I'm like, surely you're like,

five under par, just hold the score,

and he was like, no, I'm playing great,

I've hit it great all day,

I've got one chance to shoot course record,

or my best score ever,

I am not hitting it down the middle,

and then hitting it on the green.

I've hit woods good all day,

with a two yard draw, I'm hitting three wood,

and then he hit it to like two foot,

and rolled it in, for an eagle.

Yeah.

And I'm like, what,

and that's the difference in mindset.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's attacking.

And I don't know if you can teach that.

I don't know if you can teach that,

because I know him for a long, long time,

and he's never had any lessons on mindset.

So I just think like some people

are naturally not naturally having.

That's annoying.

Yeah, very annoying,

because I seem to think like,

I always say this,

because people are like,

oh, you're so talented at golf,

and I'm like, no, I'm really not,

because I'm not that good compared

to all the lads that I've played with.

It's just that if I was talking to an average goal for,

yes, I'm a good player,

but not in the league of these lads I've played with,

and I grind it for 10 years every day,

and only got to scratch, do you know what I mean?

So you say obviously about distance and stuff.

Have you ever considered,

I mean, I don't know how,

you know, for instance,

how far do you hit your driver?

Like how of interest, do you know?

I went to precision golf not long ago,

it was about two, eight, five, two, nine, eight,

correct?

You're still in like the top, you know,

I don't know how many percent,

you're in a high percentile of how far you hit your driver.

But have you ever considered going to, you know,

you get some speed,

do you have a speed training or anything like that?

Or does that just move away from your philosophy

of what golf is?

It's not so much my philosophy.

Again, it's,

we don't play round golf courses

where another 20 yards is going to help me.

And I don't hit it that straight.

So I'm only going to hit another 20 yards

in the dingle left or right.

And then I'm chipping it outside,

because I've got no,

I've got no yardage to work with to get it to the green.

Yeah, yeah, I love it.

I love it.

I'm used to boom around,

I'm used to boom around and it left to right

and all kind of right to left to get it near the green.

I use someone that definitely sees short shapes

over straight golf, yeah.

I must admit, my recovery game,

if you were playing on time towards 2000,

my recovery game would be like an eight, nine out of 10.

Oh, lovely.

You'd have those dum, dum, dum, dum,

moments, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just spinning that thing back

at about a hundred mile a year

on the green as well.

I used to love doing that.

I do, I do always say,

when you play doubles and stuff

and people hit you in the trouble.

And they're like,

what are you going to do here?

I'm like,

don't you worry about one when doing here?

I'll get you near the green.

There's no shot here.

I'm like 30 yard ball,

it caught with a three iron.

It's about a little bit about 170 yards

instead of 200.

Take a little bit off it

and just was it left to right.

But I've been so used to it

because I was never the straightest here in the world.

That's why when I do it straight,

I play pretty good

because I owe my fair amount of ports.

Yeah, I can imagine.

Yeah, if you're used to just like scrambling

suddenly you're like,

so great.

Yeah.

But I think that's why in in match play

when I played for the car,

yeah, I won so many games

because I've got inside people's heads

because I just wouldn't play great.

But I'd just chip and put you to absolute death.

Not a wish I could do that.

I'd like one weekend where I parted well

and then that's escaped me ever since.

It says.

Yeah, it's a hard,

it's a hard game.

Oh, it's an impossible game.

I had this thought today actually

because I take you as still a football fan

but you still enjoy, you just do enjoy your 30.

Yeah, yeah, you're not, yeah.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah, well, both you're not a fan,

and that's just wonderful.

So we're over it.

We're over it.

We're at the great time of the minute.

It's wonderful again.

We're the best ever again.

Which is really great.

But I was having this thought today

because I feel like golf isn't going through this issue yet

but potentially could go through this issue later on.

I'm going to look at football now

and when I watch football live a football game yesterday

it has an example.

Man City Liverpool game as an example.

That final goal,

right, that was a turkey or someone like that

rolled in from like the halfway line

and then Harlan got pulled back by Shabos Lai

and he pulled Shabos Lai back.

20 years ago that goal stands

and it's a proper moment in the season, right?

That just everyone will remember

and possibly will they catch us all.

That was the moment.

But football has bought in technology

and it has completely ripped the soul

out of what football was.

As a viewing experience,

as the players on the pitch

and managed on the sideline,

no one likes it but it's too late.

The cat's out of the bag.

It's not it's not going to change.

And I worry,

and I don't know if you have this worry too.

But with golf and with all the talk of pace of play

and you see the implementations of things like TGL

and stuff like that,

that are we going to get to,

and even some of the rule changes recently as well,

are we going to get to the point

where they make changes in golf

that potentially rip the soul out of the viewing experience

and the at least the elite level

playing experience as well.

You worry about that.

I don't know.

That's a very, very long-winded question.

You're absolutely right.

Yeah, quiz, quiz.

I don't know what the words sound thick.

I don't know.

No worry.

I struggled with all the words to put it together, right?

Yeah, inquisitive.

That's what I was trying to say.

Let me give you a story.

Let me give you a story.

Let me give you a story, right?

Okay, because I didn't,

I didn't, I didn't phrase it great.

No, I got it.

You know, you know, we've even let's say

playing your ball out of a divot.

Yeah.

Now the rule changes this year that they've brought in,

I believe,

is that if it lands in another player's divot,

you could technically take relief from that.

I don't know if I've read that wrong,

but that seemed to be what they had added as a thing.

Now, all players are going to use that to their advantage.

And in many,

I'm sure, of course, yeah, our players are going to,

yeah, yeah, that was almost a stupid question.

Of course they're going to do it.

But equally, is it then just adding another layer of things

that delay things and things that take away

from the drama that is an imperfect game

being paid by imperfect people?

Perfect way to put it,

because you could go back to football with that analogy.

And I think that's what it is.

Like using what you were talking about football earlier,

the ref doesn't do anything in the football match anymore.

He used to get decisions wrong.

That's who you'd be mad at after the game.

But it would have changed everything

and it kept the game real.

But I feel like the whole evolution of life has gone to faking.

You only ever see the good bits of everything.

And when it comes to football,

like the fun is gone

because you score that last minute winner

you want to go mad and you can't.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it just takes a fun out of it.

And golf will go exactly down the same route

if that's what they do.

Because I feel like it depends how invested you get in it.

I've never done drama, never ever.

I can't be like, I'd rather not waste my energy on it.

And like, the bringing Kebqa back to the PGA,

but Wesley Bryant's ban for playing a 9-0 match play game YouTube.

The things like that blow my mind.

Yes, Kebqa's won five majors.

He's going to bring in money.

The world's all about money.

Because realistically,

Wesley Bryant hasn't done anything wrong.

So you can fight.

There's always different angles to fight,

but like with the divot thing, totally agree with you.

If it goes in a divot on lucky,

or you just change the rule too,

if you hit the fairway,

you can place it within six inches

because you've hit the bit that you meant to

and you shouldn't be,

you shouldn't be punished for hitting a good shot.

Yeah, because then when does it stop?

Are we going to get to the point of,

it's not fair that my ball plugged in the bunker.

No, but then it's all so not fair

that you hit it in the roof

and it's sat up like it's on a tee peg.

And now I can hit three wood for the green.

No one remembers those ones, right?

It's golf. That's the whole point.

No one remembers it.

It's the whole point of the game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just the same as no one remembers.

Because that's another thing.

Just the same as no one remembers

when the referee decision goes in their favor.

You don't remember those things.

No, remember when it goes against you.

Yeah, I just worry about it.

I worry about it.

I worry, do you know what as well?

And I heard this on another podcast

and I can't remember.

It might have been, it might have been

the guys from Barstall.

It might have been their podcast,

but they were talking about

and I couldn't agree more with them, right?

They absolutely hated last year

when you would see a tee shot.

And I think this was happening at the masters

and after that as well.

You'd see a tee shot and they do the shot tracers now, right?

That's pretty standard to shot tracers.

But they were doing a shot tracer that changed color,

that changed color based on where it was going to end up.

And I heard them talking about it and they were like,

that is the worst invention in Telly.

It takes all the drama away.

They're like, all I want to see is a blue sky

and a ball just rocketing through the sky.

And I don't know where that thing's going to end up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's the world we live in of instant graph, instant.

Yeah, gratification.

Gradification, yeah, that's the one.

Three seconds.

I'm trying to be covered.

It's like three to what's the rule of thumb

when it comes to engagement?

Three seconds, isn't it nowadays?

Because of TikTok, that's basically.

Yeah, you learn people.

And they're just so aware of that engulf.

But with that, you're ruining the viewing experience.

Yeah, I built up some other thing.

I never really looked at it like that.

Because I just don't try not to,

I think there's enough problems in day to day life.

I try not to find more.

Yeah, no.

It's a good way to go.

It's good way.

I'm just so light, I've got.

But I understand where people start.

Because like now, you've said it.

And now I think about it in their opinion.

And I think, yeah, man, that's pretty crap to be fair, isn't it?

It's just an all in.

We don't need it.

Like, I can turn it off for the next five minutes.

Then because he's in the fairway now, not in the dream.

It's like when they cut back.

Yeah.

We know some things aren't live, right?

But there's absolutely zero reason when they cut back

to, I don't know, say it's someone, you know,

Matt Fitzpatrick on the 15th green.

And they do the same thing every time.

Matt Fitzpatrick on the 15th green.

And I wonder if this one's going to go in.

And it's like, well, you've cut back to it.

And you've said that now.

So now I know it's not live.

So yeah, that's going in.

Cool.

Let's move on.

It's like, come on guys.

But they do it to be fair, other than those small things.

They do an amazing job of filling like a six hour live feed

from these places.

I've watched my misses must hate me.

I met my misses at the golf club.

Right.

We've been together for 14, we've been together for 14 years.

She's just used to having the golf on Thursday to Sunday.

Long suffering.

Honestly, yeah, to be fair, we've got two tellies now.

But back in the day, we didn't have two tellies.

That's amazing.

So we had to do you guys meet at the golf course, honey?

That's awesome.

She, well, I spent 10 years at Winston Golf Club

and she worked there.

And that was it.

So yeah, I didn't have anywhere else to go to meet anybody else.

She just saw you win too many of those five pound wages

and she was like, that's the guy for me.

He might melt down.

He might melt down on the Saturday medal,

but he is unbelievable at those five pounds.

I did think I did things many men wouldn't do.

I grafted for about two years to take her out.

That's lovely.

Oh, a lovely story as well, and golf is, yeah.

And we're still, and we're still here.

And she hates golf, mate, hates golf.

Really?

Well, she put herself in the wrong place.

Really?

Didn't she, too?

Yeah, I mean, the excuse to play golf a lot to be fair.

Yeah, absolutely.

So when it comes to the contenting kicks,

like when did you decide you wanted to start postman's par

and go on this journey?

Are you sure you're ready to do this?

So you're sitting there, you're scrolling every night.

You've seen all these people earn thousands of pounds

and living out what looks like.

Even if it's only what looks like and it's not even true.

And just one night, I went from golf, learning golf,

was going to, I wanted to teach golf as a kid,

then thought there's no money in it.

Did plastering straight out of school

because it was either go back to school

because I lived my mom and dad was split up.

And then go or go back to college or get a job.

And the girl I was dating at the time,

her dad was a plasterer.

I ended up doing a year with him, hated it.

Fast forward, I don't know how many years it would have been,

three, four, five years.

Met Lucy, I was working at American Golf at the time

on like 900 pound a month.

And one day we went on the holiday

and she was like, I want to start saying for a house

and I thought, well, not on these wages we ate.

So I thought, well, my golf career's like

kind of swindling down now.

Let's, let's look at putting work first instead of golf

because I'd always be that guy like booking days off to go golf,

just everything was golf, golf, golf.

Like it's gone back to now since I've started this thing.

I'm living what my 17 year old self wanted to do.

I just double the age.

So I then got, got a job in back in plastering

with bought a house, moved on a lot,

done 10 years plastering.

And then like you say, going back to sat there scrolling

and I was like, I'm sick of looking at everybody

doing what they want to do and in on a money.

Dolly, if I, if they can do it, why can't I?

I'm a decent golfer, anything I pick up with my hands

and submit that I enjoy and love

and normally get to a good standard

just because the amount of hours and learning

that I do around the subject, I was like, here we go.

And obviously with the algorithms and everything,

one of these online courses came to my page

and it was a bloke stood on a golf course saying,

if you want to get some of your time back, click the link.

Do you've got more time to play golf

and start your own business?

And I was like, here we go.

So I did that and we got into it and then I pumped

a load of money into this online course

to learn how to do what it was going to be

affiliate marketing for them to earn a bit of extra money,

but then when I got halfway through the course,

they were like, you can do your own business.

And I was like, and then I'd already started posting content

online of just my day-to-day life as a plasterer

because I didn't know what was coming.

That was hard, but it was, do it,

because I watched so many people in these videos.

I don't know if you ever heard a mass tag.

No, no, no, no.

The guy who travels the world and just drinks beers

and he just got to a million subscribers on YouTube.

He was just obsessed with doing content

and his content was traveling the world eventually.

And he was like, you have to do 100 videos.

Don't worry about what they look like.

Don't care what anybody says,

because you've got to do them 100.

And another like called James Smith was saying the same.

And I was like, right, before I even get into this course,

you're going to have to make content around it.

That's how I got on the page.

I was like, I'm just going to start my own.

I'm just going to take the bullet one minute video a day,

one minute to a minute and a half,

thought I'd doing it, mate.

If you went back on my Instagram,

went to the bottom page,

it's, you know what I'm doing after this?

It can't be as bad as it is.

If you want to get me,

it could make you get back there.

It's so bad in Sir Clip here.

But it's just, yeah, yeah, do that.

You'll love it.

I don't, I don't take any offense.

So do, do your worst.

And so yeah, then I just, I got into this online course

that you can pay for different tiers

if you want like, once you want to help mentors,

talk all my savings out.

And I was just like, just do it, man.

Like, you're here once on this planet

and saving like 400 pound a month into an ISO.

And I was like, for nothing,

I'm going to be plastering for the rest of my life.

And if this doesn't work over the next three to five years,

which I don't believe that will be the case

because of how quick it's moving already,

then I can then just live the life that I want to live

in something that I absolutely love

and make some of it.

Absolutely.

And that was it.

And then I've met people like yourself,

like me and Lee talk for two hours a day on the phone.

It's crazy.

Do you met like a proper, like mate,

like a proper mate in the, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, mate for life that I've known about four months.

Yeah, he's a nice guy.

And he is just, he's just a nice guy.

And he just wants, and you're, I, I agree.

In the golf community is so supportive.

Yeah, which is rare for online communities.

It helps the world right.

That's a rare thing.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's just, I just,

it's always been that kind of game.

I was going back to like when, like get your kids into golf

because it's such a, it is still a gentlemanly sport

and you still have to have etiquette,

especially in this country.

Like it teaches your kids so many good manners.

And I think that's where what the game

and what my family liked about it for me.

Yeah.

And that that's where they're going to learn so much.

And it's, think it's going back to like one

that take the course and stuff.

And I use everything in a golf terminology.

Like learning marketing at the minute

and learning content creation is basically playing golf

because one minute you think you've cracked it,

you have a couple of really good videos.

Then the next one, bombs, that's when you shoot

your eyes score ever.

Then you work out a couple of bits

and you plateau for a little bit

and you're like, no, I might have it again.

And you get down, then you go up, it's poor me.

And if you didn't play golf

and you weren't used to them feelings,

you won't last that in this world.

I think there's something to be said

because you being a plaster, my, my dad was,

but I come from a family of plasterers

and I know the graph that goes into being a plaster, right?

So you're not afraid of getting stuck in.

Like you have to get, it's a tough job.

Like your body hurts, right?

After doing that little plaster.

I'm trying to get out before my body gives up.

And I'm in the same boat.

I didn't go down the plastering route

because very similar to your early experience with plastering,

I went quite a bit with my dad

and was like, yeah, I don't want to do this.

Like no chance.

I'm like, absolutely sweating.

They're not operating like a matter of fuse, right?

My dad refused to go over to all the electric mixes

and everything like that.

Knocking up, knocking up by hand with a stick.

And this stick, and he, he refutes through by himself, right?

So his trail ended up being like kind of the,

just over the size of his hand

and like super thin, worn out edges.

And it was the same with his knockup stick.

It was like, this thing was tiny.

And I'm knocking up for him every like 10 minutes

or whatever and he needed it doing.

And it was just, and I was just like, I'm not doing this.

So I got into winder cleaning,

like my brother and Lauren were under winder cleaning firm.

And I got into that and that's all I've ever done

since basically like close on 20 years now.

And I'm in the same boat as you were.

It's just like, no, you know,

I really would like to do something I love, you know?

And I love meeting people like yourself.

I love talking about golf.

Like, I really enjoy the content creation side of things

and trying to find your niche.

And it's a whole new, let's face it,

this didn't really exist 10, 15 years ago.

I was an option, did it?

No, and it's just, it's the new way to go.

That was another thing, like you say,

I can't see the internet going away.

I think so.

No, yeah.

The only thing that might,

the only thing that might kill the phone

is how good these glasses get.

That's true.

Yeah.

And that's come from Gary Vee.

I don't know if you know Gary Vee

is a massive on the internet man in the marketing world.

Like e-reconz that phone is going to be obsolete in years

will be just beep.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Wouldn't surprise me.

No, wouldn't surprise me in this.

I need to get in, get it all done,

make connections and make some money.

Then get on the metaglasses and in no time and start, you know.

Yeah, no, it's like you say,

I just, every day I try and help one person a day.

That's been one of my goals this year.

A few people that message me and just whether it's

to help some of the content creation,

I was helping one of the England golf lads with content

and I'm not even that good at content.

But you needed help in that.

I just try.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you need help in that.

Or a goal for all message me and say,

will you take a look at this?

And yeah, so I'll just give my opinion really.

But you're doing something right, clearly keeps,

because it's going really well.

And you talked about the fact that it's, you know,

you're, you're maybe not surprised at where it's gone,

but you've got these opportunities coming up and stuff like,

what's your, like you've got goals that you set for 2026,

where is that a little bit like we were talking about with sort of,

you know, golf and things like that of trying to look at the big picture

too much, maybe.

So it's funny.

You say that I, and this is thanks to the league,

like I went around Lee's house and took my goals around there

because I'm very money driven and like,

just want to try and be the best.

And I know I probably won't get there,

but if I'm getting near, it normally ends up good enough.

And it was goals, goals, goals,

money goals, view goals, follow goals.

And he was like all these things are like not controllable,

like you can't control any of these.

He was like, let's re-engineer it, reverse engineer it.

And let's see what you can do to be able to get you to these.

And then I heard a unbelievable,

like I like to watch social media still,

like everybody else gets stuck in a doomsday or whatever.

And it was a man who was saying,

the goal is the distraction.

The process is what you need to follow to be able to achieve the goal.

And I was like, wow,

because I always look at the top of the ladder,

but I've not done these steps to even get there.

So that was my number one,

my two goals this year are process,

concentrate on the process, not the goal.

And number two is to take action as much as I can.

Don't think about taking action.

So if I need to ring somebody, I don't leave it ring.

If I need to do a task,

don't sit there for five minutes, then do the task.

Do it, then sit.

It's an all them things are in their business and stuff,

like if I need to make a video,

make the video, post it, then sit.

Because if you just keep leaving it and leaving it and leaving it,

and to be fair, it was last year, it was a year of learning.

But if you don't learn without,

if you don't learn without implementation,

you're just entertaining yourself.

And that's stuck with me,

because I did that all last year.

So it's hard to take action.

It's like, it's uncomfortable.

But you don't learn from any mistakes if you don't do it.

Yeah, I spoke to someone that was in the other day

and I said, yeah, I'm trying to be comfortable

being uncomfortable.

Right, that's like, that's kind of,

that's so true.

And it is difficult because you see all these trends

on social media that seem to catch fire

and you're like, do I do that and stuff?

But then is that being true to what you're trying to do?

And it's just not easy.

I mean, I find podcast clips and everything like that.

I love doing that and I love, you know,

basically promoting the show through Instagram

and then when it comes to my own golf clips,

I just think, well, there's some stuff I like doing

and sort of feeds in and I'll just throw that in.

But sometimes it does feel like you're just throwing it

against the wall and seeing what sticks sometimes

and it's just, yeah, yeah.

It does.

But with all the books I've read and listened to,

and one of the main things that sticks with me

is you only need a thousand true fans

and thousand true followers that are gonna buy your product

that truly believe in investing you and think you're right.

And that will make you enough money

to never think about it again.

And I was like, you get lost in that.

I want a million followers.

I want to be the biggest, but there's so many creators out there

that I've got a million followers that are broke

because it doesn't matter how many followers you've got.

And the algorithm changes during the time.

When I look at people and compare,

because people say don't compare, I do compare.

I think why is he better than me?

Let's go and have a look at what he's done.

Try and see if I can copy my way

or change a few things and get what's where he's got.

But the algorithm has changed since then.

It doesn't go to your followers as much anymore.

So, like, it's more of a level playing field

and not people aren't following you

because it's now interest media.

So if they're interested, it goes to them.

They don't need to follow you to get your content.

Yeah, I was talking to...

Though it's hot, it's hard.

Josh Cotes, so ping it.

I was talking to him a while back.

And when he started his Instagram page,

it was based around football.

And he was living, I forgot where he said he was living now,

but it was a little island somewhere

he ended up living for a little while.

And he's like, oh man, it was so easy

back then to get followers.

He's like insanely easy

because this was probably 10 years ago.

Maybe something like that.

And he just said you just had to follow a strict,

pretty much upload schedule.

Make sure that you put the right hashtags in.

He's like, he got to the point of gaining

sort of like a thousand followers a day.

It was no worries at all, easy.

He's like, and then I came back to it

and I'd stop playing football

and I was playing golf

and algorithm had completely changed

and everything was totally different.

And I'm just like, okay,

trying to learn whatever this is now, you know, it's just...

Yeah, that's it.

And he might change again.

It's not change again.

It will.

It will change again.

That's what I've learned

and not been in it five minutes.

I think it's also very hard, like you say,

you've got a family.

I've got a family.

Full-time job.

This is a job now

where you're helping people all the time for free at the moment.

And it's like, and this jobs are the normal job.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I've got two jobs now and one's for free

and that takes up more effort.

Yeah, absolutely.

But it's the price you pay if you want that life.

I just, the opportunities it's brought from me already

is second to none.

And like you say, you go out there

and I just want to say this just in case anybody does listen

and that thing we were talking about

with followers where it's really hard.

I've only got the following I've got

because I made one video that made me 16,000 followers.

One, otherwise I'd be like, nine, eight, nine thousand now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's that lottery ticket that everybody talks about

because that one video hit,

resonated with so many people at a certain time.

And that's where I've got my, my job.

Did you think that video was any good?

No, I was just trying to load

to different stuff all the time, like normal.

I've tried to recreate that video four times

and it's bombed every time.

Just timing delivery and just, yeah.

And it got pushed, right?

I mean, that was just, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know why.

And I've got no idea.

And like my sister in law is the Irish gen.

And she's got like 1.2 million tick-tock,

100,000 Instagram,

170,000 on Facebook.

Just a family.

She's the one who kind of, family influences.

Yeah, well, she married, she married in,

like she's with one of the sisters who I'm like,

okay, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And I kind of,

I kind of had her to do,

but we're completely indifferent issues.

She does fun Irish stuff.

So, yeah, yeah.

But I got to learn a lot from her.

And like she'd tell me if I was doing some at wrong

or not that I took her by 24, 7.

But like, it's nice to have a helping

and somebody to talk to, but even more so now,

like you meet people like yourself,

and Lee, and everybody else who with me, Matt,

you're just, we just run ideas off each other.

Like you're helping each other to the top as a collective.

And I think that's been a mindset shift

in this sort of like time period reading

where people realize you don't need to push others down

to try and succeed.

You know, you help everyone.

You know, it was, I always get this same role.

Rising, rising tides,

raise all the boats or something like that.

It's something like that.

That's the shit, right?

Rise, yeah, rising ships.

Come on, we can do it.

Yeah, I don't know.

Leo, Leo, Leo will be in the comments like,

oh, it's this.

I've used it before on this podcast,

and I still can't get it right.

I need a plaque.

I need a plaque above me that says to say imperfectly,

I could quote you in a lot,

but it's certainly true.

And it's lovely to see that there is a community of people

out there that just want to help each other realize this.

What would be awesome to say that this is a job,

like a proper job.

And it is a job, but it's a job that currently we do

out of love for it.

And it would be always good to have that love for it,

but also not have to do the other thing.

It's a nonprofit.

It's a nonprofit, I don't mean.

But I love it.

So I really appreciate you coming on.

And I know at some point we're going to get on the course

and play, and that's one of my goals this year is.

We're coming up to Brighton soon.

There we go.

There we go.

We make that work, we'll make it work.

One of my goals this year, the few that I've had on the podcast,

and I really enjoy talking to, spending time

with just a guy and play a nice round, you know,

and just enjoy it.

And if you film something, you film something,

if we don't, we get to enjoy this

beautifully frustrating game together,

which is, which is all the fun, all right.

Yeah, class.

Thank you for having me on.

I do really appreciate it.

I love talking.

I don't know if you know I love it.

I love people who talk.

It's absolutely ideal.

I love meeting people, mate.

I love knowing people's stories and where they want to go

and just, I've just been that guy.

Absolutely.

Well, I'm sure we're going to catch up again on the podcast,

but I'll make sure in the show notes that we links

to everything that is Dave, Cooper, and you can go check him out.

Postman's Paul, Dave, thanks so much for coming.

I really appreciate it.

No problem.

He's funny.

Thank you so much.