Why Trump's Got Reasons to Slip Natalie Harp Cash

0:00Why are they getting this money? I know that in the past, in other situations, Trump has come up with amounts of money at certain moments when he felt he was not covered enough. These people know are privy to so much inside of Donald Trump's very small bubble. We're gonna give you an additional $45,000, which will be accounted for as a bonus or whatever way it needs to be. It's a very problematic, how do you enforce an NDA when you're in a political situation, when you're essentially on the payroll of the United States government? The people's payroll, you might say. We should say that this is my theory on this, the theory of the case based on what he has done in the past. Michael. Joanna. Back in the studio.

1:00Back in business. Yeah, back in America. It's very exciting to be back. We've so much to get through. We've got the cash. What is the cash about for Natalie Hart, Margot Martin, Chamberlain Harris, and Walton Nauta? Is it Nauta? A guy that... Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no. And the guy who was also indicted with him in Florida for the, for the stolen papers or the... That's right, the classified documents, they moved down there. So we're going to discuss why is Donald Trump paying Natalie Hart $45,000 in cash? And unless I have a theory, so... So stay tuned. We have the Trumpalooza in Dallas. And who's going... How are we saying that Trumpalooza? Trumpalooza? Trump. Oh, that's good, Trumpalooza. I like it. Yeah, well, the Trumpalooza, so who's going there, who's not going there? Why is it half empty? And they keep pretending it's full. We've got the photos from Sarah Ullwice from our Washington Bureau who's been down there

2:02and shows the stadium basically half empty. And of course, we're going to start off talking about this. I'll never forget two firemen. We thought it was coming down on top of us and two firemen. The extra guys, and I'm not the smallest guy in the world. The grippier under the arms, it got to get out of here. It's a solemn day, it's 25 years since 9-11. We were both working to get right to New York magazine. 25 years. 25 years, gone past in a whistle. In a whistle, but that video, I mean, we remember covering... You were pregnant. I was eight months pregnant. I was eight months pregnant. We were at New York magazine. It was my second week. And Donald Trump was not running around. Well, I was... I did a good part of the coverage of 9-11 for New York magazine. And including, I mean, Donald Trump says he was down there.

3:04I was down there. And I remember this, and this was an extraordinary day. And with enormous disarray, getting into the office, the editor in chief, we couldn't get her on the phone for a period. Remember all of the phones went down. The phones were out. And then I came into the office, you were in the office, the executive editor, John Homens, an old dear friend of mine was there. And it was like, well, what do we do? And, you know, I mean, this is New York magazine. This was from, you know, thinking of all of the things that 9-11 would mean when you're in the news business, you think, you know, what's... What do we do? And I remember very clearly thinking, this is New York magazine, this is, we've got it, get there. And I got John Homens, John Homens and I then decided,

4:08but there was another person in the office, I recall, who kept saying, why do you want to go down there? I was desperate to go down there, but I was eight months pregnant. I was nervous about going back. Yeah, well, as well, you should have. I mean, everyone, and then, I mean, we were just acting in the moment on all of this. And John Homens and I went out, I mean, I went out, I remember we went outside the building, New York magazine was then at... 50th on Madison. Madison in 53, we went out the building, without any plan whatsoever. And, and I mean, this was, I think probably about a half an hour after both towers had collapsed. And everyone, there was like a massive, massive humanity coming uptown on foot, a large, largely, but the traffic was, was packed too. And then we started to head downtown. How do we get downtown?

5:08And we actually hailed a police car and the police car picked us up and then we went down Sirens Blaring to as close as we could get to the, to the World Trade Center. And I mean, it was already, it was just a dust cloud. But already there were ambulances from kind of converging from, I think, from the entire tri-state area. So by the time, by the time we left, there were hundreds. Maybe, maybe, you know, maybe a thousand... All the lines of ambulances, well, aligning the avenues. Yeah, I mean, just ready to pick up the wounded. And then, of course, that shock when they were just there, because there was no, there weren't wounded. Everyone was, everyone was friends. Everyone had either gotten out safely or was dead. But then, you know, and then we came back, and I remember just covered, you know,

6:10it's a little kind of, people talking about the effects of that air and that dust that crosses my mind because we were white with it. And then we, you know, I mean, that was, I guess we, I mean, our coverage certainly went on for weeks and weeks. And I was deeply involved with that. And so two things, two relevant things, never once did an anecdote about Donald Trump's surface. Right. I mean, I remember it quite well because it was such an extraordinary few weeks. And I just joined the magazine. So everything felt particularly sort of strange to me. And I don't remember us ever doing anything about Donald Trump. I don't remember him coming up. But I do remember, he's all the rest of the tours down there. I mean, there was Danny Meyer, there was David Boulay. I mean, everybody getting restaurants up and running

7:11to feed the workers. I mean, I think they did one and a half million free meals in the rescue workers. Now, I have a, I have a point of information about this because in the aftermath of 9-11, I spoke to Donald Trump. Now, I often heard from Donald Trump. This was a kind of sort of running amusement that Donald Trump would call all of the time to either complain about something the magazine had said about him or more often than not, complain that he wasn't mentioned in a story. And in that aftermath of 9-11, he called and he had, he was planning to donate, he had money. And I mean, it was a lot of Malarkey, Donald Trump Malarkey. But it was trying to wedge his way into the story. Trying to get into the story and his way into the story is I'm going to support this and I'm giving this to the firemen and stuff. Money, I'm sure, that has never materialized up.

8:14But at no point did he say, I was down there and this was my experience, not present in what he was talking about. If a genie gave me three wishes, I would use all my wishes to wish for my cats to live forever. But since genies don't exist, as far as I know, I feed my cats smalls. Smalls is fresh human grade cat food that does so much more than just feed my cats. It helps them live a full and healthy life. Most cat food products out there, they're made with meat by products, cheap fillers and artificial ingredients, basically stuff that isn't great for your cat. Big pet food does this because it's cheaper to make. But what they save on cost, your cats pay for with their health. Smalls is different. Their fresh recipes are made with at least 80% animal protein and they're gently cooked to retain all their nutrients

9:15and flavor. They never add fillers or artificial ingredients and their food is so healthy that 88% of cat parents say that after feeding smalls, their cats have better digestion, a softer and shinier coat and more energy to play because it's actually good for cats. Your cats' health and longevity start with what they eat, try smalls and get 60% off your cats' first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you go to smalls.com slash head. One last time, that's 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com slash head. Well, it's very clear. I mean, if you went on social media this week, no one believed that he was actually down there helping people. I mean, his claim that he'd gone down, he'd taken his crew. I mean, the thing that I think people do remember

10:17is that after the two towers came down, he called one of the networks and said, I now have the tallest building, 40 Wall Street. And so he was boasting about having now the tallest building in downtown because the other two have been taken out. No, I think it's the guy. I mean, here's a tea to say. It's extraordinary about Donald Trump because it's all extraordinary. But this is a lie and the man does nothing but lie. Right. But you would think that this lie is approaches the truly sacrilegious. Well, the sort of stolen valor of it, it's like stealing someone's mental. You think of all the people that did go down there. You know, all the rest you work as the essential workers, the nights they spent there. The person I remember the most was the priest for the byer brigade, Michael Ryan, who had a terrible heart attack on the spot and died

11:17because it was, as Rudy Giuliani said, you know, it might be too much for us to bear. And then of course, you've got the tragedy of what happened to Rudy Giuliani that Trump sucked him into his terrible wake and a man who actually had risen to the occasion, although do you remember Al Sharpton saying, Buzo, the clown could have risen to that occasion. But Rudy Giuliani, I don't really think that. I, you know, I think that that was, I mean, that's, that was that moment that spoke to what Rudy could offer. Rudy Giuliani is, continues to be, and hysteric. That's what he does. It's all hysteria, except that, that has a funny thing of reversing itself when everyone else is hysteria, in hysteria, for the hysteric that becomes a moment of calm. And he was. That was what, that was, you know, Rudy Giuliani at that point for those weeks

12:18was a calm voice. Yeah, calm voice told everybody, go out, go shopping, eat out in restaurants, keep New York City going. All of, you know, advice, which was good advice, everybody went out and did it as much as they could. I mean, it was a really remarkable time, remarkable time. And so for Donald Trump to sort of wedges way in and start shouting that he was there and he was down there helping the rescue workers, what nonsense? And as you say, it's a sort of sacred, it's almost a sacred thing that he has violated. Yeah, no, I mean, we could, we can, I'm sure we can go further and, you know, 9-11, which led to Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, destabilization, the destabilization path that I think you can reasonably argue was one of the things that leads to the Donald Trump presidency. Yeah, well, catastrophic overreaction.

13:20And by Bush, by George W. Bush, he was then held hostage by Donald Trump's felt and Dick Cheney. And yet weirdly, what has Donald Trump done, but according to JD Vance and Marco Rubio this week, he's got himself into a war which may now last his term. They don't think that we're gonna get out of it before the end of Donald Trump's second term, neither does Pete Hexand, and stealthily moving American troops to the region. And not only that, we've gotten into a war which has exhausted enough of our resources that we are unable to support. What I think is this enormous historic opportunity, which is that the Ukrainians have been on the verge of essentially defeating the Russians in Vladimir Putin. And instead, we're now giving the Russians

14:22because we can't aid the Ukrainians because we've exhausted our munitions. We're losing the opportunities to stop Russia and giving them in advantage which they may take and which they are taking across Europe. Yeah, which they're definitely taking across Europe to destabilize Europe. We're recording this on Thursday morning. JD Vance will be speaking tonight, although Trump will be then speaking after JD Vance. What did you think of the first days? Well, let's discuss what is actually going on with this bid. I mean, the logic here is you have to really go a long way to find it. Now, you know, well, isn't the logic attention for Donald Trump? Well, yes, exactly, but that's the logic that is at the expense of his party. So you have in midterm elections,

15:25your the party that holds the White House loses seats. It just is just one of those things that happen. They can be greater or lesser losses. But the issue is that a that a president is surrounded by national controversies and what you want to do is let your party on a state and local level focus on state and local issues. So you the president, you want to you want to just take a step back. Everybody knows this. It's easy. Take a step back between Labor Day and the and November. Let your people out there do their thing. Don't overshadow them. Don't don't make them have to defend you, especially if your if your approval ratings are are in a dip. Not to mention Donald Trump's, which are in a tank. Right. So, so why would he possibly be doing this?

16:28Why would he possibly be calling attention to Donald Trump in an election, which will depend certainly on swing voters who wear a group in which he is massively unpopular, massively unpopular because of the war, which he has gone to Dallas to defend, so what? Well, hello and nice. And nice immigration. All of it. Policy after policy. Policy after policy. What could be then the motivation for this? Well, you're absolutely right. It is about attention, A, because he can't resist the idea of it. B, because the idea of something that he's going to do, that he's going to do it. Because he can't resist the idea of it. B, because the idea of someone else getting attention is unathema to him. Right. But C, I think that there's a longer term strategy for Donald Trump, which is that he does not want

17:32the Republican party to imagine life without him. This is, he is now, and remember, we're going into this other phase, the midterms in a, in the, in a president's second term, after the midterms, the president begins a long goodbye. Right. It's the official lame dot period. The, his, his possible successors, he receives his possible successors come to the forefront. Okay, that's not going to happen here. He's not going to do this. And you can see this convention as an announcement of that. I am not going away. I'm going to play this in a, in a, totally the opposite of that. This is the cult of personality is going to go into hyperdrive now. And, and it is going to be more, you're not, I'm not going to allow the party, the country, the world

18:35to get me to, to get me Donald Trump out of its head. Right. To receive. Right. So we're in Donald Trump's head, but Donald Trump understands that what he, his talent is getting inside other people's head and staying there. So it is, it is, I think that's a brilliant analysis. I agree with all of it. Do you think also that it will, I mean, how is he going to react when at 9 11 on Friday, an event because he's a New Yorker, he knows how important it was 25th anniversary. He's not going to be there. The other presidents are going to be there. So George W Bush, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, the Clintons will all be there. And he won't be there. Well, they have automatically upstaged his RNC polluter at this point. Well, I think that he's, he's hoping that his RNC a Trump elusa will, will upstage or compete with them

19:41and compete with 9 11. I mean, I think he feels competitive with 9 11. That's what this whole I was there. Yeah. You know, 25th anniversary. I mean, I'm sure he's been stewing about that. You know, I really didn't do. I really should have gone down there. I really should have had gotten some pictures of me with a. Exactly where are the pictures? You know that he'd been there, the would have been pictures. Instead, there are just hilarious fake videos of, of firemen carrying him out. And, and his whole narrative about him, kind of a big guy said, fellas, hey, put me down. But this idea that they're treating him as a heroic figure. When literally people were jumping from the buildings. It's, it's, it's unspeakable. It's unspeakable. It's unspeakable. But, but I, I mean, I think that he, that he sees this and he is triangulating this. This is not, it is not just happenstance. I mean, first thing, this whole idea, remember of a, of a, of a mini convention.

20:45I mean, he demanded this or ordered this into place. I mean, the Republicans are going like, oh, and you have all many, many significant figures in the Republican party who aren't showing up for this. Well, you've got Susan Collins, who's not going. You've got John Sennu, new in New Hampshire, who's not going. Obviously, Susan Collins in a tight race in Maine against Troy Jackson after our friend, Graeme Platner, drops out. Your friend. My friend. How, how should the Democrats react to this? And can we have a moment, please, on John Fetteman? What was that? We can. The Democrats, I mean, the Democrats probably shouldn't react. I mean, you know, when your, when your enemy is, is destroying himself. Stay out of the way. Yeah. As for, God, the Federman saying, you know, sometimes, you know, people are.

21:47People really go out of their way to find a little love. And Federman is clearly not getting love from other Democrats. So I'm sure he thinks I'll try, I'll try the Republicans. Every day, your personal information is exposed somewhere online. Your email address, financial details, even your health information. It's not about being careful anymore. It's about the hundreds of data brokers who collect and sell your data without your consent. They can't harm you if they can't find you. That's where Incogni comes in. Incogni automatically sends removal requests and follows up across more than 420 harmful sites. Helping get your personal information removed from places you may not even know exist. Incogni can find out where your information appears online and recurring removals helps keep it from coming back.

22:47You can also track your progress, get monthly risk assessments and reach 24-7 live chat support. Live phone support is available for unlimited users. Your information can't be used against you if it's harder to find. So to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan, go to Incogni.com slash beast or click the link in the episode description. That's Incogni.com slash beast. For people who haven't seen this Fatemann, John Fatemann, Senator from Pennsylvania, who had a terrible stroke and then had depression, like increasingly, politicians seem to have and disappeared for a period, is back with what seemed like. I mean, it was only a minute. The big remove Republicans in Dallas. Yes, I'm Senator John Fetterman, Pennsylvania.

23:47Yes, I'm a Democrat. Why am I here talking to you today? Because well, I'm a common sense Democrat. But it looked like it had been cut according to one of our producers six or seven times. So it wasn't clear to me that he could produce a fluid introduction. No, I'm sure that that's true. And I just, just one thing, you know, when Fetterman had this stroke, the Democrats came to his support. I mean, you know, they thought, oh, this is a guy. I mean, there was some hope for that he would be a, you know, a new kind of kind of working class voice or, or, or, or, or. Well, he'd never really had a job. And he'd been to Harvard and his parents were absolutely whatever the thing is, but it that his party came to his support at that point. When in this ought to be just a cautionary tale, you know, sometimes you got to cut it off. Right. I mean, he had a stroke then depression.

24:48This is this is a guy who shouldn't have been a United States senator. Well, he doesn't enjoy being a United States senator. I mean, he should have a democratic party said, okay, this is not weird. This is okay. This is not going to work out. Right. And also we know that he doesn't enjoy being a senator because his staff last year, last week, he says disgruntled former staffers released a series of his texts in which he really attributed to almost anybody asking his office for help. The worst possible motives, you know, he said, oh, people just want to free trade. No, no, I mean, obviously, he obviously doesn't enjoy the job. Obviously, this is a person with with a kind of range of issues, whatever those issues are stroke related or not should not be imposed upon the American people and on his constituents. Right. And just for those who didn't see it and just going to finish what I was saying, which is that he gave an introduction to his fellow senator, David McCormick in Pennsylvania, who is a Republican.

25:49And he said, you know, we're going to work with Donald Trump to get the steel mills open again to get manufacturing back to Pennsylvania. I mean, it's in fantasy land. Fantasy land. Oh, yes. So the other thing, Sarah, you'll wise and I hope we can flash up her pictures here from our Washington Bureau went down there. The place was half empty. Donald Trump was telling everybody was completely full. There were crowds outside,attering the doors down to get in. But this was like his first inauguration crowd. It's not true. Not only were people, you know, political candidates staying away, apart from the most mega of the suckiest up of the suckers, but the public weren't going either. And I think it's important to emphasize that's not the real. There is an audience here and the audience is a hardcore mega audience. Right. And the audience is TV. They have TV audience. Yeah, but I'm not even sure the TV or first I don't think the TV audience is going to be that great.

26:54And in fact, the TV audience, I think, will probably work against him. You get a lot of independent voters. You get a lot of people who are saying, what the hell? But the, the, the, the, the real point is to go to have this kind of Trump all the time. Right. Celebration. Yeah. For the core of the Trump support. That's the support that that he depends on. He lives off of. He is that will propel him beyond the presidency to still the leadership of the Republican party. Because the Republican party is this is such a key group in the party's fortunes. They can't, they can't ignore these people. They can't overrule these people. Right. So he's getting his lifeblood, his energy, his electricity from the crowd in the room, even though it's a diminished crowd. Do we think that Scott Besson, his Treasury Secretary,

27:58who was up there talking about his policies and how we had to double down and the best was yet to come? Do we think that he knew that Donald Trump was going to suddenly announce that for every, if the Republicans win the midterms, every adult in America is going to get a check for $5,000. You know, I've seen the people around Trump respond to what Trump says. And it's very possible that that came to Trump in the moment. In the moment, right. Well, that's what it looks like. And they have this kind of the reaction is a kind of like. They're bracing for impact once he gets up there. But they're also used to it. And they also discount it. Yes. Okay. This is absurd and ridiculous. And it'll never happen. And but it will never happen. Do you think it will go away too? Right. So that in two weeks from now, it will be what? So do you think he was saying it because he knows that they're not going to win.

28:58So he's very safe. He could have offered $10,000. I don't think it makes any difference to him whether they win or not. Nobody's getting $5,000. I will assure you of that. Okay. Well, you know who did get $45,000. Natalie Har, Margot Martin, Chamberlain Harris. What a name shout out to the name Chamberlain Harris. If I'd had a daughter, I would like to have called her Chamberlain. Not the Harris bit, but the Chamberlain bit. And Walter. Wasn't he a famous Prime Minister who sold. Oh, he has a good point. Actually, very good point. Yes. Neil Chamberlain. I have in my hand a piece of paper. Yes. All right. I was looking at that. All right. Moving swiftly on. I'd forgotten about that. Although there's always will Chamberlain that you're coming back to because you're always referring to will Chamberlain. 20,000 women that he has had sex with. Donald Trump is competing with. Yeah. That's a bit harder for him now. We think because we're told he's post sex, but who knows.

30:02They got $45,000 in cash from Donald Trump last year. It emerged. What do you think that that's? Okay. Can we just focus on that? $45,000 Natalie Harp earns $150,000. So Natalie Harp gets $45,000 in cash. In cash is a bonus. But when you say in cash, he's counting out $100 bills. I don't know, but I mean, it's, you know, the report is $45,000 in cash. And sort of like petty cash almost like, you know, did he get it from that box that every office seems to have with a kind of weird slit in the top that I guess you put money in the petty cash box? You know what I'm talking about. There'll be lots of people listening who remember cash. I mean, does anybody have cash in cash? Yeah, I don't even know what this means. $45,000 in cash. She got $45,000 in cash. She got $45,000. How was it going? Why did she get it? Why did she and Margot Martin and Chamberlain Harris not related to Neville Chamberlain get this extra money?

31:07And then Walter, how do we pronounce his name? Nauta. Who the guy with the scissors? Yeah, he got $25,000. He say I can hear it. Nata. Walter Nata. It's always Wal. Nata. Wal. Well, well, Nata got $25,000. You are asking this question in a way that might suggest that it's a rhetorical question. But I think I'm actually, why are they getting such big businesses? I think I have a, well, you would normally ask it as a rhetorical question because nobody knows. Why are they getting this money? It's the classic rhetorical question. There isn't an answer except that I think I have an answer. Go on. I know that in the past, in other situations, Trump has come up with amounts of money at certain moments when he felt that he was not, he was not, he was not covered enough, well, when there weren't NDAs or when he was not covered enough by the NDAs in place.

32:12So essentially, he is buying a further NDA, which is, you know, this is a common place in business. You don't, you sign an NDA because you've been given something. Right. It's a matter of fact, it's hard to enforce an NDA when you have not been given something. It's a transaction. So, so you think that he's asked them to sign another NDA for which they get $45,000. Yes. I mean, that, that is my theory of the case because it has happened before and he's gone to them and said, okay, we got, you got to sign up another NDA because for whatever rationale, I mean, the obvious rationale because these people know are, are, are privy to so much inside of Donald Trump's very small bubble. So he's gone and said, okay, we know the lawyers say we, we, you know, we got to, we got to do this. And what we're going to do, we're going to give you an additional $45,000 to which will

33:15be accounted for as a bonus or in whatever, whatever way it needs to be, but that's what we're going to get for this. Wow. And do they not sign an NDA anyway to work with them? And usually in, from what I know, yes, there are always a lot of NDAs floating around, but there's always an issue about how they are enforceable. So and then there's always an effort to make these NDAs more enforceable. I mean, it's a very, it's a very problematic. How do you enforce an NDA when you're, you know, in a political situation, when you're on the, you know, you're essentially on the payroll of the United States government, the people's payroll, you might say. So so that's, that's a kind of constant discussion and a constant analysis and re-analysis. And do we know if this $45,000 is government money?

34:18Is this our tax money or is this Trump money? Good, good question. I don't know. And there would probably be some, if this were a matter of getting an NDA of, of a, of a transaction that got you an NDA, that would probably be relevant where the money comes from. But I, but I don't know. And we should say that this is, this is my theory on this, right? Theory of the case based on what he has done in the past. Okay. So we don't know it to be true, but it's a, it's a robust theory based on previous behaviors. Robust, I like that idea, robust theory. Robust theory. Okay. So we're still, Michael, as we mentioned earlier on, at war with Iran. And it's not going away. And his people, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, J.D. Vance and Pete Hexeth, think that we're not going to get out of it anytime soon. Well, also, let's, the, the, the Iranians clearly have no intention of letting us

35:21get out of it anytime soon. And the Iranians have basically gone back to war. Right. Well, and, and we saw this week, they bombed eight F-15 aircraft that was sitting on an American base in Jordan. So half a billion dollars worth of equipment just vaporized. I thought we were spaced with obliterated their military capabilities. In this, I guess that's in from the same script as Donald Trump going down to, um, going down to 9-11 and going down to ground zero and being a hero and the fireman. Why does he think, I mean, what a story as well that the fireman somehow picked him up and took him out of there. I mean, as if they didn't have other things to do again, putting himself at the scene. I know. I've been trying to imagine how this, how this occurs. I mean, I mean, the whole tablo of this, right.

36:25I go down there. I go down there. We better get you out of here. Yeah. So, and we're going to, we're going to pick you up and, and, and carry you out. And take you to safety because you're risking yourself. Meanwhile, literally people are jumping out of the building. Well, also, also people are coming, coming, coming down. I mean, what, why would the fireman spend time on, um, and also he'd have his own crew with him. He said he'd take his crew. He's Donald Trump, right? And he said he'd taken his own crew. So surely the crew would say, Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, we can't let you go in there. Not fireman who've got real people to attend to. Smothered in ash, choking, having seen unspeakable horrors. And so let's assume that he, that he's made this up. This is the story that he would made up that I'm being carried out by fireman. So what does that tell you? It's his fantasy to be carried out by two firemen, mine too, but not at 9-11. Yeah. I'm, it's just horrifying. It's horrifying and it's so, I mean, I know what happens.

37:28And I've, and I've seen it literally just comes to him in the moment. Yeah. I just suddenly see, he suddenly has this vision of that. And I think like the $5,000 payment suddenly like, hey, I know $5,000 for every adult, if the Republicans win. And actually, even the people standing behind him didn't look like they believed it. There were three or four women and they were holding up Trump's hands. And one of them barely moves. She was just sort of looking skeptical at the camera. So it's all just... No, I remember the, the Venezuela announcement and he got up there and then said, who's going to be running? We're going to be running it. And all of those people behind them, who are going to... I'm not quite able to horrified. Yeah, he basically pointed at Marco, didn't he? Yeah. And it's a thing. And I mean, obviously it's a point that we have made again and again and again, that there is no plan here. Yes. That it is just comes out of his head at the very moment. It comes into his head. It comes out of his head. Which is why we call this podcast for new people who've joined us.

38:31Because there are lots of new people that join us every week. We call it Inside Trump's head because that's the place that strangely seems to be the most important place in the world. No, it is. We assume that American politics is created. Policies are created. The... The logic and data is guided by a Washington DC, which has all kinds of smart people, smart people, dumb people. But it is a massive collaborative exercise in democracy. And... No, it ain't. No, it ain't system. No, it ain't system. And again, because he doesn't listen to anybody, he takes no advice, can get no advice because he can't... He literally doesn't hear anything from anyone, doesn't read anything. It is just this singular person who is a firing in random directions.

39:38So he's been firing at the mail-in voting. And I find the mail-in voting story is quite complicated and it's quite detailed. But what he has managed to do... And we should remind people 30% of Americans actually use mail-in voting. In Colorado, it's almost exclusively a mail-in vote state. He's managed to sow confusion about whether or not it's still legal. And let's... Let's... The baseline here is that it is legal and the courts have... Have pretty consistently supported this idea. And yet we are at this moment in which... In which if I think... I think everybody's feelings is, oh my god, there is it legal? Is it happening? We don't know. And again, it is before the Supreme Court. I mean, the Supreme Court has basically tried to indicate in every way possible that this

40:40is legal. We don't want to get involved in this. This is a state issue. And then Trump keeps bringing it back before the court, which creates this situation of absolute uncertainty, if not the sense of chaos. Right. Well, it's the chaos that I think is most concerning. And again, just sowing doubt in the election results. And we know that actually America's election process, which is devolved and run by the states, it's not federalized, is largely a pretty reliable process. I mean, we've heard from many people actually who listen to the podcast, watch the podcast, who have either volunteered as election workers or been professional, full-time election workers that the system is safe. And let's remember, there has never... This has not even been an issue. This is Donald Trump's issue.

41:41Not an issue outside of Donald Trump and issue only when, only when Donald Trump lost an election. So... I mean, we're to... And one of the ways, and okay, I mean, the... The scenario, the state of play is he is looking at a midterm elections in which are significantly stacked against him. He's stacked against him because the party holding the White House is always at a disadvantage. Plus, he is one of the most unpopular presidents in the modern history of the presidency. So not good. Plus there's a whole list of policies that have been distinctly unsuccessful under Donald Trump. Distinctly unsuccessful. Not good. So what is he going to do? Well, he is going to try instead of moderating those policies or doing all of the things that

42:47a normal president would do. Okay, this is not going so well. So we ought to try for a reset. Donald Trump doesn't reset. He doubles down. So what is he going to do come for this election? Well, he's going to try to reset the actual terms on which people vote or are able to vote in the actual terms about who votes. So we're going into this into this into the midterms and that then becomes a significant variable. Can he disrupt the election enough to gain an advantage, a significant advantage? That's the question. And does he then challenge, you know, there are I think 35 seats in Congress that are probably in play. There are probably six Senate seats that are actually in play. Does he then just challenge the results of every single one?

43:50Well, we don't hold up the whole process. Yeah, we don't even, we're not even there yet. So that will be that'll give us many episodes after the election. But and clearly he's not there yet. What they're doing now, the phase that they are in now is trying to, trying to disrupt the, the, the procedures for voting in a way that will redound to their advantage. Right. So and then what will happen if they lose? Well, yes, it's a whole other chapter. Okay. So one more thing I wanted to discuss with you, Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel has been a thorn in Donald Trump side more than the other late night comedians. Well, I guess Stephen Colbert was dropped by CBS. Jimmy Kimmel is now about to interview James Talleriko, but he's not going to do it on his show.

44:51Fast, no, totally, totally fascinating. He's not going to do it on his show because his network Donald Trump has now threatened. There is, and this is somewhat complicated. There is FCC rules, called the fairness doctrine. Now the fairness doctrine has not been enforced, not been, I don't even actually know the official legal status of it. Is it still, is it still a regulatory principle as it once was? So when there were three networks, the rules and the networks, these are over the air networks. The air is owned by the United people of the United States. Therefore it is regulated on that basis. And the regulation was that if you had on one a politician from one party, you had to have a politician on from the other party. It was like an equal time thing. Absolutely.

45:51That's that's exactly what it was. And this went by, became obsolete with the rise of, well, cable networks, not to mention social media, not to mention so many other aspects of modern communications. Now because cable is not over the air, it cannot be rate. It is not regulated by the FCC. So they could not then say to cable stations, you have, they could not enforce a fairness doctrine. So that seemed at best anomalous that they would not enforce it on cable, but have to enforce it on, on over the air. Therefore it has, it has basically been, the fairness document doctrine has been more abund. Except recently, the Trump administration has started to threaten the networks with

46:52enforcement of the, of the, of the equal time fairness rules. So and in the case of Jimmy Kimmel and, and Donald Trump obviously has gone out of his way to frustrate Jimmy Kimmel in, in every sense in every way that he could. But so in, in order to, for Kimmel to interview, um, taloriko, he has had to, he can't do it on the air. Can't do it on ABC, which is his network. He can't do it on ABC. And ABC is now fighting several battles with the Trump administration. Um, so what they're doing is they're doing this and they're doing this interview, but they're broadcasting it on the air. And so it's an interesting, first is, is an interesting play, and I would, I don't, I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I imagine that Kimmel's numbers on YouTube are a factor. Yeah. Then they are on, on ABC, but it is this other thing.

47:55So it goes to this other other, other thing, like, uh, I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I imagine that Kimmel's numbers on YouTube, right, a factor. There's other, other issue of, of the, the obsolescence of, also of network television, that, um, uh, that, you know, the world is happening now on, there I say YouTube. Yeah. Well, we interviewed James taloriko on, on, on YouTube, um, but it's significant that Jimmy Kimmel has figured out a work around. Well, it's, I, you know, you know, when, when I published my last book, all or nothing, and that came out in, um, in, uh, February, 2024. So just when, when Trump had come back into power, it was threatening all kinds of things had sued. I think he sued. So the 2025, February, 20, 20, 20, 25 came out month after the inaugural. Right, right. So it covers the, the, the, the 2024 election. And, um, and Trump came into office and, and, you know, announcing that he was, he had

49:00the media in his sites. He was suing, I think he had already sued ABC. They had already made a, come to a settlement with him or, you were just about that, that, that, uh, that point, George Stephanopoulos. Well, it was an interview he'd done with Nancy Mace. Um, and, um, so, and every network was, was looking squarely at this and was, was fearful. And I remember when my book came out and that would have been the first book in this, um, uh, second, second term. And I, I immediately, all the bookings that I had had before the election, when people still thought he would, he would, uh, publicize the book, um, where, were canceled. Mm-hmm. Every one of them down the line canceled. And then that's a, that's the moment in which I thought, I, you know, what am I going to do? And, and went to social media, started an Instagram account, which I have not had before. Um, and, um, and then we started to do, to do podcasting and which, which has been

50:07actually much more successful than, than the traditional television outlets. Right. I mean, I, what do I have a million followers on Instagram? We do a, a business now that is larger than any, well, any cable prime time show other than Fox. So, um, so this is the, um, I mean, Kimmel is part of this movement here that is about Donald Trump, but it's also about the increasing obsolescence of the old networks. Right. And it's about people wanting a greater freedom and independence, independence to be able to say what you want, which is a good moment for me to say, please subscribe to the Daily Beast. I mean, I think that's a good moment. Yeah. We've got 700 and I think 50,000 subscribers at this point. We've been doing this. Just over a year. Yeah. No, I mean, these are, these are now, these are now, we are competitive, no, a total

51:07competitive, yeah. Or, or, or more. And that's a, that's a, that's a seismic chain. Well, and the thing I like is that when you go on a Daily Beast or a, an inside Trump's head podcast live, you can see the community, you can see, you know, all the names I now, I now know Cindy Brown, John Hart, all these people that come on and talk about the content of what we're talking about. They talk to each other. There is a really big community and you can sometimes go on those 8,000 people, you know, pouring in what they think about what we're saying, ideas for our suggestions. And that's not possible with television either. Yeah. And I'm talking to other people who are viewing it, especially now, there's no water cooler moment anymore, because people watch on their own time. And actually the premieres of our show, you can see people beginning to wait for them. They enjoy the fact that it's a collective experience. No, Jimmy Kimmel, who is, is one of my frequent commenters on Instagram is, is not only,

52:13is move that it's, it's really interesting, is not only, not only against Donald Trump, but it's against ABC too. I mean, I think, I think, I think Kimmel knows that the future is somewhere else. Well, and aren't we waiting for Stephen Colbert to open up on YouTube? And John Oliver certainly has, I'm sure, more followers on YouTube than he has on HPA. No, the, the, the YouTubeization of the world is kind of extraordinary. We applaud you YouTube. Now I'm sounding like Tony DeCopel at the end of his, I think, second broadcast for CBS News when he said, we salute you, Florida man, Marco Rubio. We salute you YouTube for allowing us to have independent conversation. No, we'll CBS. And then, and then Paramount and whatever is going to CNN. You know, this is, this is, this, this becomes some, some other reality like people still are doing

53:14this. People are still, are still think that they can make businesses out of this. You know, local and you meet your family. Well, no, you actually have, they are doing this because the Ellison family doesn't have to make a business out of this. Right. This is a vanity project of, of a, of a, of a kind of, what do you think? That Larry Ellison thinks about his son doing this because this is now, I mean, in theory, if this had been one of those deals that got done quickly for to go through smoothly, he might have been fine with it. But I suspect if you're the father looking at the son struggling with this messy deal, now, you're not best pleased. I mean, as a, as a tech mogul for the most part, he's actually had a low profile. And now the Ellison family is sort of taking it on the chin for essentially ending CBS 60 minutes. The new episodes are about to drop. There'll be all sorts of attention to that.

54:16Do you think Larry Ellison thinks this is a good move that David Ellison did? You know, people really, love to be part of the media. I mean, and I think. But Larry Ellison have many opportunities to be part of the news. The second, third richest man in the world. I'm not sure he had so many opportunities. You know, this is now, now he doesn't have to be his son is the media. And these guys like control, control, control control dominance dominance. And remember, they think they can do everything. I think they can do everything. And then on top of that, they're winning favor with Donald Trump. So so far, I think that this is kind of win, win for them. It will become lose, lose when they really start to lose a lot of money when when they

55:16really realize that they've bought a business that is that is yesterday's business and the world has moved on. And when Larry Ellison starts to tell his son what to do and his son becomes annoyed with the father and yeah, you can, you can write this one. Well, perhaps this will be your next book. Father and son, the Ellison's all right, we have a limerick. Where would we be if we didn't have a limerick? And this is from a new limerick. Um, pumpkin, oh, six, three, three, oh. And it's about our entire junior. Pump Kiano. Oh, pumpkin, no, I think you might be right. Pump Kiano, right. Cheeseburger, three eggs is the breakfast of kings much better than snorting off toilet seat rings. The Kennedy name once historically classy. Now based on this menu is prone to be gassy.

56:16Okay, this is my favorite. That's pretty good, isn't it? That's pretty, pretty good. Uh, I love it. RFK junior well done. Pump Kiano. Well done, pumpkin. You know, we will be back on Saturday for more Trump loser, Trump is a loser. Trump is a loser. Trump is a loser. Um, we'll be obviously dissecting what JD Vance says and how Trump comes in over the top of him. Yeah. And is this good or bad for JD Vance being being pushed out in front of this, um, um, this crazy crowd, this empty hall will be fewer seats for JD Vance than the word for Donald. Well, we'll be counting. Sarah, you all wise, we'll be down there counting every single seat. We'll be back on Saturday morning. Well, Saturday afternoon, actually, we'll record it Saturday morning, but we'll actually drop the episode Saturday afternoon full of the latest gossip. And we should probably ring the White House and find out what they think about your NDA theory.

57:17Yeah, you know, you do this. You call the White House all the time. They say the same things, P brain, um, whatever. Um, so this is performative on your part. Okay. Then we're not going to call them. We won't call them. Thank you. Ryan, John, Heather, Rachel, Neil. Pretty good. So the good news is we have so many BB beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.