Why You Can’t Behavior Yourself Into a Great Marriage

I can't behave yourself into a great marriage.

I had to trust the Lord and allow him to transform me completely.

Welcome to the Grace Marriage Podcast.

I'm Brad Rhodes.

And I'm Marilyn Rhodes.

We're here to help you build a marriage that's stronger,

more connected, and full of grace.

I'm Rick Dayton, joining Brad in Maryland.

If we bring you weekly conversations designed to inspire

and equip you to live intentionally in your marriage,

we'll share practical tips, powerful stories, and strategies

to help you and your spouse grow closer and thrive together.

So whether you're just starting out or have been married for years,

there's always room to grow.

Let's do this together.

This is the Grace Marriage Podcast.

Welcome to this episode.

This is Brad Rhodes.

And I have a friend in ministry, Candace Nassar.

And she is a passionate voice for emotional health,

and spiritual formation, and for cry center relationships.

She wants people to grow and self-awareness

and deeper connections.

So welcome to the podcast, Candace.

Thank you so much, Brad.

I'm really excited to be here.

Well, why don't we start?

But you just kind of introduce in yourself to our audience

and kind of tell them it's like, kind of what,

how the Lord brought you into the ministry you're in

and what your ministry is.

Oh, I'd love to.

Well, as you said, I have a passion

for helping people grow in the Lord.

And I came to Jesus as an adult.

So I was 30 years old when he met me

in a Bible study for moms that had childcare.

And my marriage was super on the rocks.

And I came from a lot of dysfunction.

And so when I met Jesus and understood

that he died for me, it just completely changed my world.

My husband ended up coming to the Lord

and we were able to raise all three of our kids

in a Christian home.

We're cyclebreakers.

We both come from divorce and it is not us,

but our parents.

And so I just have a passion for helping people understand

what God can do in a life and in a marriage and in a family

when you don't have the tools at all.

And I can't behavior myself into a great marriage.

I had to trust the Lord and allow him

to transform me completely.

And now of the married, almost 35 years,

I've a granddaughter and all of those things

I completely give glory to God.

So I guess it's kind of the seek first,

it's kingdom and all these things will be added to use

kind of what your kind of ministry is.

Yes, yes.

The ministry that I lead is a discipleship mentoring

and a ministry where we help moms integrate Jesus

into their everyday life and just live out their faith,

disciple their kids, transform their lives,

their confidence, improve their marriages, all of that.

Well, we'll get a little more specific

and cause you know, I think there's real power

in testimony, you know, because most people

that have a passion for people's lives

being transformed by Christ have had their life

transformed by Christ.

So tell me kind of a little bit more detail

about your story and about how things change.

A lot of our listeners are, you know,

they try to impact marriages and they talk

to people about marriages.

And so I'd love to hear more about your story

and what they could learn from it.

Well, so I think the biggest thing is my husband

and I are both chiefs.

I have a master's degree and came into, you know,

our marriage feeling very smart and sure of myself

and thought that I was gonna have this great career.

And somehow we didn't come together on the fact

that he was raised in a very traditional home.

He wanted to, he was raised in the faith.

Well, he was, he was raised Catholic

and I wasn't raised with anything.

And so I liked that fact of him, that bowed him,

that he had that grounding, but he wanted me

to really focus on raising the kids.

He wanted this big family like he had

and we just came to an impasse right away

when I wanted to keep working

and he wanted to, he had a different vision for our family.

And he's very strong and wanted to lead

and I wanted to lead.

And I didn't understand the biblical model of that at all.

And so that was a big thing in the beginning

for me to process that as I came to know Jesus

and his heart that we were a team

and I was the co-pilot in a sense

that somebody had to be the final say

and so I could stop.

And I still to this day struggle with it,

but just allowing him to lead

instead of trying to control everything.

And a lot of that came from fear, right?

Fear that he wouldn't do it right or fear that

we would end up like my parents or whatever.

And so I think that that was probably the starting place

of me realizing that I couldn't,

I didn't need to control the marriage

that that was really God's job

that I needed to stop trying to control things

and out of, you know, and control the outcomes.

But you seem like you can spiritual leadership

is a big controversial thing, you know.

And you, you see two ditches, you know,

one authoritarian, narcissistic can be abusive.

Then you see the other passivity, lack of leadership,

you know, kind of if you could kind of tell how

would you tell folks to navigate the spiritual leadership

waters, both it's like when you're trying to disciple marriages

but also in your own marriage.

That is such a powerful question.

I think the first thing that I had to learn was that,

let me think about this for a second.

I think that he wanted me to come under his leadership

but at the same time he didn't really have

that understanding of the Lord's being his head, right?

And so we had to, it was really a lot of both of us,

me, him learning to hear me and listen to me

as I was saying this, these are the things

that we need to do together and getting mentors,

getting counselors, getting being in community

in a strong Christian church that we were able,

we saw people, we saw the role models,

we saw the people who had marriages that lasted

and we wanted that.

So we began to try to lean into their advice as well,

as well as just constantly being in the word.

Both of us having a desire to have a good marriage

and learning what was getting in the way of that.

And so the spiritual leadership, I think he wanted to lead

but not necessarily spiritually.

And so when he began to understand what that looked like,

I could allow him to lead.

And sometimes it meant me getting my back all the way

to the wall to give him some space in front of me.

And it was a lot of work, I will tell you that.

And just allowing, again, praying together,

both of us, we would have these really bad fights

but then we really loved each other.

And so we would lean in, okay, what just happened?

And really it's in the recent last few years

that we've really truly learned the patterns

of that we got in childhood that has impacted our marriage.

So that's been a big thing too.

But that's great.

And I know when you're talking,

you talk about the phrase growing in love

and you talk about people that we love most often

get the most reactive version of us.

So what do you mean by that?

Well, when we're at home, right, we let our guard down

and that behavior that we can present in public,

I think we can't manage it the same

because we let our guard down, the stress comes in

and it's our closest relationship

and that reveals the pattern, that stress reveals the pattern

that we've learned, that we've seen

and that we've practiced a lot of times

just how to habit, not even realizing it.

So some of us want to attack, some of us avoid that kind of thing.

And so, and transactional love, really.

You know, growing in love, I mean, a lot of us know the verse

from a current, everyone knows it almost.

If you, I mean, even in my, before I was a believer,

I knew first Corinthians 13, love is patient, love is kind.

It does not envy, it does not boast, it does not proud.

We know that and yet living that out in our marriages

that expose that part of us, that you and I've had

this conversation about how marriage is so sanctifying, right?

And so those traits, those characteristics of love,

are, we can't do that in our own strength.

And so overcoming those patterns

and that transactional feeling of, you know,

I'll love if you love me, I'll give as long as this is fair.

That's not Christlike love.

Yeah, you're right, it's like,

and really the only person that really knows you

is typically your spouse.

Mm-hmm.

Because like, I'm in Berlin, I'm married,

I told them, I was like, everybody else likes me fine.

You know, what's your problem?

You know, it's like, it's like when I'm at work,

seem like people dig bread, okay, and you don't dig bread,

but she's the only one that really knew me.

And I've heard someone say, the person that knows you the best

likes you the least, there's probably something wrong with you.

And so it really hit me, but you know, when you're home,

you can't hide from your spouse because you live there.

So they, they see withdrawal, they see, you get it angry,

they see, they see sides if you nobody else sees.

And that's, that's, when you say that's part of why marriage is,

is, is the bet is the most satisfying human relationship,

but also the most difficult human relationship.

Right, right.

It is, you know, we, we're with them all the time,

or more than anyone else.

And so they're definitely going to see that side of us,

that true deep down sin nature that we have.

And so we have to, we have to learn to absolutely surrender

that and, and just lay it down every single day.

And pray, I mean, I have had to pray, Lord help me,

show me how to love my husband, show me how to love him today.

So that, you know, I can, I can walk in your will.

And, and it's a lot of times it's just an act of obedience,

but then the heart follows.

So, and we've all said, one of the beautiful things of marriage

is like, when somebody knows the very worst of you,

and they're still your biggest fan,

there's something really special about that.

Like, Maryland, Maryland knows, like nobody knows my thoughts

like Maryland, but nobody thinks more highly of me than Maryland,

which to me makes the relationship, you know,

it might have met George Straitsong,

you know me better than that.

You know, you know that me that gets lazy and a fat,

you know me better than that.

And it's talking about like another girl

that thinks the world having these like my life.

She knows me and still loves me.

Yeah, there, and I, to this day,

I'm amazed at the love that my husband has continued

to show me over the years when I have done

some really ugly things and said some ugly things

and been just appalled at my own behavior.

And, and I love Jesus.

I mean, I've been, I've been all in since day one.

And I'm in the word and not, you know, and, and yet,

I still have these reactions that are so ungodly

and he continues to love me.

And so that is, that is a security.

And then of course, going back to what is the heart,

where does love come from?

It comes from the Lord, right?

And so knowing that my husband, that my Jesus loves me

loves me unconditionally and that he loves,

I love because he loved me first.

Having that security, that's where the love comes from.

Well, the interesting thing is, so your spouse sees the worst

of you, they see, you know, stress manifests more in the home

than we kind of covered up when we're in meetings and things.

So they see the worst, they see the worst of us,

they see the negative emotions, the positive emotions,

which does make marriage more difficult,

but it also makes it more meaningful

because there's a deeper knowledge,

a deeper understanding, a deeper interconnection.

So the fact that Marilyn knows my struggles

and knows my ditches and knows all that,

she knows me more in your deepest relationships

where there's the greatest knowledge

and not just the knowledge on the positive side of the ledger.

Right, that's right.

I completely agree and it's, it's a gift.

It's honestly a gift and it's worth fighting for.

And I think, you know, I read something recently

that more millions and millions of women

in their 50s and 60s today are just quietly quitting

their marriages.

And I just found that so, so sad

because it's, I've continued, you know, it is hard.

You have to continue to work,

you have to continue to lay down.

It takes a lot of humility, you know?

I mean, honestly, that's the core of it.

But the satisfaction of coming out on the other side

and having that incredibly close,

just beautiful friendship and relationship,

it's so worth it.

And that's, so that's why, you know,

I read that statistic and I thought about all those women

just living as roommates and it just broke my heart

because it's possible.

Well, and there's a hopelessness that drives it.

You know, see you have wives that have cried

out to their husbands and you know,

I wish we were closer, I wish we dated more.

I wish she spent more time together.

I wish she, and then just didn't happen.

Well, yeah.

Then they just get to a point where, you know,

it is what it is.

I'll just settle in to,

I'll find this norm I can tolerate

and I'll have a, it's tolerable marriage is possible

and it's good a life is possible outside of the marriage.

So what is it, what would you tell a woman

who kind of feels like, you know,

I've cried out for more attention.

I've sought more attention.

I've tried to sign up for marriage stuff.

He's not interested.

He's fine the way it is.

I'm not, but I'm just having to learn to be fine with it.

How would you counsel that woman?

Because there's a lot of them out there.

There are and I would say I,

there was a bit of time when I was stuck in that

and one of the things I had to understand

is that I can grow even if the other person doesn't change.

And so I just decided to focus on myself

and my walk with Jesus and continuing to learn

to lay down my sin and my pride

and just focus on my responses and things.

And you know, I, one of the things I learned

is that I'm very critical and I'm critical of myself

and I could be very critical of my husband

and he's an avoider.

So he's gonna take that as a, you know,

he'll just go in the other room

and we don't have those discussions

that we need to have to to, you know, work through the conflict.

So I guess what I would say is start by focusing on yourself

and even if you've done that, just keep doing it

because that's all you can do.

And I know for me the more that my husband witnessed me

making changes, having different responses,

doing the things that I wasn't doing before,

it encouraged him.

It really did

because there's gotta be some person

that starts to make the changes.

And if you're really honestly following Jesus

and obeying that light will shine brightly

and just keep clinging to Jesus

because he sees you, he knows that you're in that situation,

he is with you, he is your friend, he is your father,

father God and he will help you through.

You can get through it.

Yeah, and Marilyn, early in our marriage,

so Marilyn got to that point pretty quickly

because she cried out for more attention

and I just didn't give it, you know.

So it was like, she just kind of lured

in my sentence to a life of this.

You know, it's like this is it, it's not good, you know?

Right.

But then the Lord's shoulders said this,

I'm sufficient for you, Marilyn.

Exactly.

Marilyn came to me and said,

and I've shared this on a previous podcast episode.

She said, she said, I don't need you.

She said, I'll do my best to be your godly wife

but she is my joy, my happiness, my security, my beauty.

It's not hitch to you, it's hitch to Jesus.

It's not 95% Jesus, 5% you.

It's 100% Jesus, 0% you.

She said, I'll do my best to receive from Jesus

and be your godly wife and walk closely to God

but I am not going to be, I'm not going to get,

my joy is not just going to go up and down

based on how responsive you are.

Yeah, that's a heart, that's what,

when I talked to you guys,

I was so impressed that she got that early

because to me that took many, many years to come to that

because my role model looked, my mother looked to men

to complete her, she was not a believer.

And so I thought my husband should complete me,

should make, he should be the source of my happiness.

He should do all the things I wanted him to,

he should be the way I wanted him to be.

Well, that's just, that's not who God created him to be.

And so there was a lot of humility and laying all that down

and it took me years to get to that

and just seeking God constantly

and him to fill me up and find that security in him

and not my husband.

Yeah, and I think I helped her

because I was a very bad non-responsive idol, you know,

so I was thinking, I was such a non-fulfilling dude

that you know, it made it easier to look elsewhere.

But I do think that one of the reasons a lot of marriage

is strong all this, because you're asking for it

for something I can't give, you know.

Marriage doesn't make a man feel respected.

And marriage doesn't make a woman feel beautiful.

Marriage doesn't make a woman feel secure.

Marriage doesn't make a man feel like a man.

You know, that comes from a confidence in Christ

and a security and integrity and those things.

But a lot of times when we don't feel respected,

well, it's because my wife doesn't respect me

or we don't feel beautiful.

My wife, my husband doesn't make me feel beautiful.

You know, it's, I think it's really seeking from the source

and not making the ultimate source horizontal

but making it vertical.

Yeah, I mean, really, and if we think about it,

it really is kind of an idol to think

that some other person can meet those needs for you

when only our father promises to meet those needs.

And then it's, but what's so ironic

is that when we do look to him completely for that,

then it improves our marriage

because then we can love sacrificially.

We can initiate, we can have Christ like love

when we're secure in our love and him

and that Christ like love transforms hearts.

And it's so good.

And it changes the lens of which you look at your spouse

because you know, you don't kind of look at your spouse

as this being that makes my life better.

You look at your spouse, this unique, fascinating creation

of God that I'm committed to love the rest of my life.

And I just was hanging out with a couple recently

and they've, they've made the neat transformation

because they're totally different people, totally different.

One's really anal and high strung.

The other's really laid back.

The other one's really in their appearance.

The one's not in their appearance.

And they were on each other's nerves a lot.

And then I've watched them grow.

And now they're fascinated and adore them

how God created them.

And it's a tangible, different feeling when you're around them

because all of a sudden they just,

they just fully focus on loving one another,

not wishing the other was different

to make their life a little easier.

Yeah.

And that has, that is a transformed heart

of understanding of where love comes from.

And also understanding that God has chosen this person for you.

I mean, instead of fighting against it, you know,

fighting for it, just saying, okay,

this is who God has put my life, why?

Well, yeah, how many people are attracted

to the exact opposite of themselves and marry that, right?

And we know that God sanctifies through that.

And so, yeah, that's beautiful.

I love hearing those types of stories

of when God can just transform hearts and marriages

and we can decide, you know, with his help,

we can completely change our view of our spouse.

And I'm telling you, there have been,

there have been many times when I thought

that I was gonna walk away from this marriage,

even as a believer because I just didn't think

it could change or get better.

And here we are at almost 35 years

and our marriage is a strong, it's stronger than it's ever been.

Yeah, and I think as we close, you know,

scripture says, if you get married,

you will have much trouble.

In the scripture, the scripture says,

in the scripture talks about how we all continue

to struggle with remaining sin and challenges.

So I think also the fact that merging two lives

into a mysterious oneness of marriage

with different backgrounds, different family origins,

different personalities, different priorities,

and you merge those into one home.

I think people are too surprised when it's hard.

Yes.

And they're too discouraged when it's hard.

You know, I've told numerous couples

in crisis counseling that you're not really in crisis,

you're more normal.

Now do me with a lot of couples that are truly in crisis,

but some of them, they're not even really in crisis.

They're just having the normal problem of a merger.

I was like, yes, yes.

I mean, having, I have a business background.

I mean, mergers are extremely difficult

and there is a lot of conflict.

And so expecting that, absolutely.

I think expecting that we, as a society really,

we just want things to be easy.

We don't want anything to be hard.

And so when marriage is hard,

especially those first few years,

we just want to walk away

because we think that's gonna make it better.

Well, that doesn't either.

I mean, I can tell you that doesn't.

So.

To sum up, as we close this episode,

people don't satisfy people, God satisfies people.

Amen.

And when we seek satisfaction from our marriage,

we live perpetually unsatisfied

because we're all jacked up,

because remaining sends a reality.

And none of us handle life well.

If you are handling life well,

just wait a few weeks until for some reason,

we feel down or anxious or whatever it is.

So it's God created us to receive from Him and love others

not to be ultimately satisfied by the horizontal.

Yes.

And when you can live that out, it's the sweetest thing.

And it's a battle.

I mean, it's the kind of the reality I've had to wrestle with

is you just don't arrive.

Like there's times I feel like I'm just,

I'm at total peace, I'm loving my kids.

And then when this is a great state,

and then the next day I raise my voice and my kid

and get up and say, what happened?

It is that thing that that's Hebrews 4 past,

strived, entered the Sabbath rest of Christ.

And you've got to strive to trust, strive to rest,

strive to love.

It becomes more natural as we pursue God,

but it's always a battle.

Always a battle.

And then we of course have the enemy

that's right there screaming in our ear.

So.

Well, thank you so much, Candace for being on this episode

and we'll continue this conversation.

So thank you so much for your ministry,

your pursuit of Christ,

and then you sharing your pursuit of Christ

and others to encourage them and the Lord and the people.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for joining us on the Grace Mirage podcast.

We really hope you're feeling inspired

to take intentional steps to grow in your marriage.

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