Yesavage Lands on the IL + Matthews Goes Under the Knife

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Fan Morning Show.

Gunning. Boat and Steen. Yeah that's right Gunning. Back from Death Store. Here I am. Boat and

Steen and Ali they've been holding down the fort. Zack thanks so much for joining me this morning. How

you doing bud? How have been the wakeups for you? I always like to check in with people. I know

it's not a lifestyle that's conducive for everybody. How have these early morning wakeups been for you?

You get used to them right? You're on day three right now that's kind of when you start to settle

into a routine kind of like a pitcher right? Gunning right? I mean you make your first couple

starts you get your feet wet and then all of a sudden you feel good. You get in the rhythm,

you get in the groove. That's kind of where I'm at right now. So the alarm went off today and it

was probably the first morning where I wasn't kind of dreading myself in that pit of despair. So

I'm feeling good today and we're ready to go. See that's nice that you consider yourself a starter

the way like we've been using you here. It's like you're a fireman. It's like we got a fire spot

bam put them in there. Of course off the top of the show you heard John Schneider not tipping

his cap to anybody. Certainly not tipping his cap to the shoulder impingement for one

tray of savage. Look this J season is starting with as much hype as much hope as much expectation

as there's been in quite a long time and obviously so much of that is what happened last year.

But so much of that was because of tray of savage right? It wasn't just a case of hey look the whole

band is back together. I mean a lot of that's true as well. But it was what can this guy do next?

The sky is the limit and I'm not putting a ceiling on him because of this but man this is his brutal

start from an injury perspective as you could ask for. What's your what was your reaction when

you hear that he's going to start the season on the IL because I'll start from these act that

wasn't any shock. It was just sadness right? I mean you see the way this thing was playing out

and obviously there was the slow build up and there was talk of who are they going to piggyback

guys off of him. I would have taken a piggyback at this point with him starting the season on the IL.

Oh no question. I mean you didn't know what you were getting with him. I guess coming into the

year, right Brent? Like even if he had been healthy coming into this season you figured it was

going to be the shorter outings. You know the three, four outing stints and then eventually

start to build them up. Now whenever he comes back is the big thing here's ambiguity as well.

You don't know what this means for him. You don't know what chain beepers going through really

from a timeline perspective. You don't know what Jose Barrios is going through. So all of a

sudden you're down three starters and it really tests your depth early. But as far as you

savage himself, I think it's just the ambiguity. You really don't know when he's going to be back.

You don't know how severe it is. Like if you got a timeline or if you got a recovery process

or at least some sort of idea of how this was going to shake out for trade, you'd feel I guess

a little bit better just understanding what that scenario might look like, but not knowing. I mean,

you think the blue jays would have signed Chris Basset once again, especially for the ticket he

got in Baltimore. Brent had they known that their pitching depth was going to take a hit like this.

And again, these are not, you know, these aren't fringe starters for them. These are guys who have

legitimate, legitimate opportunities in the rotation at the front line of the rotation, right? I

mean, the whole idea around Jose Barrios last year was that it was kind of a right off for him.

You come back this year, you expected him to have big contributions for them. You bring in Shane

Bieber last year. He opts in, you know, you have a full year of Shane Bieber with that elbow feeling

a little bit better. And you're right about your savage, right? The entire expectation, the whole

bar that he set for himself unprecedented baseball last year, as far as him pitching at four different

levels of baseball, what he did at the World Series setting records. I think the big thing for

me is just the ambiguity, just not really knowing what this means for any of those three.

And look, the blue jays are set up as good as anybody. As far as dealing with pitching injuries,

the only issue is you don't know how long they're going to be out. And these are three

premier guys in your staff. You lose Chris Basset. Obviously, you bring back Max Scherzer. But

man, Cody Ponds, Eric Lauer, they're up to the task. But did you have those guys penciled

in right away? And all of a sudden, you know, you're expecting them to make big contributions

in a in a big way right off the hop. So that's the big thing for me. I'm looking at this as a whole

big picture full landscape. This pitching staff is going to look a lot more depleted, a lot more

different coming into this year. And I think that's the big one for me here, Brent. Yeah, that's

the thing, right? This was a this was a team that even last year, right, was built on depth. And,

you know, from an offensive perspective, from a pitching perspective, they just kept having

arms to throw at you. Now, the thing about having depth is you don't always necessarily want to see

it tested. And it's getting tested right out of the gate for this J's team. You know, you mentioned

all of the various, you know, slow starts or injuries that they've dealt with this year already,

right? Okay, Jose Barrio. See, he gets hurt. I think everyone by and large shrugs goes,

oh, that's a shame. Like that, you know, it's tough for him. But as far as for the rest of us,

you know, it's not really the end of the world here, right? Especially given the way everything

played out, the weirdness of him not being at the world series, though, the way everything happened

there. And then the, you know, the uncertainty regarding his future with the franchise, they

maven the opt out at the end of this year. But then when the when the Bieber news comes as well,

and obviously timelines a little different on that, we understood there was going to be a slower

build up for Bieber. Okay, that's a little more imperative. This was a guy who was chief trade

deadline acquisition last year. And he was so, so important for this group. Now again, up and down,

right? It wasn't like Bieber just came in and was nails of shoved seven innings every single time

you saw him last year. That was a necessary case at all. But the best version of him was elite.

It was a guy that was really able to kind of change the ceiling. And you saw some of the massive

playoffs starts he had. But you savages a guy who I don't think anybody was banking on it. And

this is really just a testament to a Dylan season and Kevin Cosminar. But this is a guy that

easily easily could have been the blue jays best starter this year. When you just asked, you know,

you do a straw poll of of 50 Jays fans of who's going to be the best starter. And I don't know,

depending on on how many mullsons they've had, you might get a number close to like 30 or 40 for

free Savage B in the number one guy on the list there. So yeah, losing him. It's also,

it's the great unknown with an injury like this, right? You know, it's an arm injury for a young

pitcher who was put through so many levels put in so many different situations last year.

You just don't know how a guy is going to respond bounce back from that. So it really is a kind of

kind of wait and see. All right, you mentioned the depth that this, this team has that they can

afford to get through this, I think, because of what they did, they go out and sign Scherzer. And

yeah, maybe if they understood this is going to be the case. But I also don't know because with

the great unknown of this, I don't know that they would have gone out and got bass. And I think part

of the, the benefit of a guy like Scherzer is because the pedigree he has, if he comes in and

performs, you're not going to take starts away from him. You're, you're just not going to do that.

But there's also easily the possibility that into his 40s, he just doesn't have it anymore. And

it's easy to kind of take care of your problems that way. You know, Bassett is a guy who struggled,

but also, you know, has a little more in the tech, I think, than a guy like Scherzer does,

at least over the course of, you know, 162 game seasons. So this team, I think, can afford to get

through a little bit of a patch that looks like this, right? You're still rolling out Dylan C's,

Kevin Gossman, Cody Ponds, Eric Lauer, Max Scherzer, like that's still a totally fine rotation.

But this was a team where the rotation was going to be the strength. And I think if those are

the five guys that you're going to have for any length of time, it's not that you still don't have

the high end. Like I think they're one two can match up with anybody in the American League, if not

baseball. But once you get into that kind of third spot now, you know, Cody Ponds, I think it's a

great story. I think he could be good. I'd be lying to you if I sat here and had all the confidence

in the world that he's going to have an incredible, you know, season back into majorly baseball here.

So I think that's where it'll be interesting to see a play out is how much does the depth go

from a kind of shining light for this team to something there now, just kind of in the middle of

the pack with. Well, that's it, Brent. I mean, again, you'd feel better about it knowing that

you'd have to withstand that rotation that you just laid out. If that were the case for April,

and then you know, two of those three guys come back in May, you'd feel good, right? But you hear

those trigger words, you hear shoulder, you hear elbow, you hear forearm, you don't want to hear

those words when you're talking about your starting pitching or any pitcher for that matter, right?

So I think that's the big thing for me, not having a timeline on any of these guys. It's really tough

and it's a little bit concerning. Now Cody Ponds, like they're paying this guy and I had a feeling

that he would have his hand in the rotation one way or the other because they're paying him

pretty handsomely. They give him a three year deal. I think overall, you probably trust the

pitching more than the hitting when you're coming over from Korea, from Japan, you know,

translation wise, that has a pretty good history. So Cody Ponds yesterday, five and two thirds,

shut out, ball gives up one hit, albeit not against a major league roster. But overall,

he's had a pretty strong spring and I think you know, that's kind of what it's all about,

especially for pitchers, working with things, feeling good about it, getting your sequencing right,

getting a feel for pitchers, getting in sync with your catcher, Alejandro Kirk back from the WBC.

I think that's a big one. And you know, you talk about Eric Lauer, like talk about a guy

who did everything and more for this team last year than what was asked of him. I mean, he gives

up next to zero traffic on the base pass. He doesn't walk anybody. He's as efficient as it comes.

And Brent, like, I don't want to try to draw it up as a good thing. Like it is not a good thing

that the blue jays have three injured starters right now. But Eric Lauer is the only lefty option

in that rotation, even when it's seven guys deep. Eric Lauer is the only lefty. And I think when

you're preparing for a series against the blue jays, it's important to have a lefty option in

there. Just throw a wrench in the plans a little bit when you're preparing for three

ridys. Listen, as good as Gossmann and Cesar, you said it as probably as good as anybody in

baseball, maybe just the American league. But I do think it's important to have that lefty

option in there. And you know what? I was banking on a burio's comeback season. I was. I think

you know, this is a guy who started opening gay for them last year. It's a guy who they're paying

extremely handsomely. It's a guy they gave up a lot for in a trade. Like he has a big hand in

this in this team one way or the other. It's just an interesting situation. Again, I go back to it.

Not knowing what the timeline is on any of those three guys and those trigger words. Hearing

shoulder, hearing forearm, hearing elbow, not very convincing when you're talking about these

pictures. I think your savage to your point probably could have been the ace of the staff at some

point this season. It sounds crazy to say for a guy who could probably throw 200 innings in Kevin

Gossmann for a guy as good as Dylan season as established as Dylan sees. I think the big

expectations on tray a savage, you know, probably back like loading his innings to the back half

of last season. That was probably the plan, right? You wanted to load your savage up this year

and probably have him with his seven innings starts going through August, September, October.

Now you don't know when he's going to get back there, right? If he's going to get back there.

And I think that's the big concern coming into the year. There is good as anybody as far as

being up for the task and being tested with this depth. I think to again, to repeat it for

the a millionth time, the only problem is just not really having a timeline on these guys.

And in turn, needing to prepare for the unknown. That's probably the biggest thing with picture

injuries here. Hey guys, we found him. Zack's the guy who had faith in the Jose Boreos bounce back

season. Oh, yeah. I thought this was just like a mythical creature, but I finally found a guy

because I'll be honest, like I wasn't completely writing off the possibility of the come back season.

But I'd be lying if I was sitting here, you know, banking on it in any way, shape, or form.

And that's the thing about this chase team. They didn't need to bank on it. Obviously,

they still don't need to with him starting the year, hurt, hurt in his own regard there.

You know, let's just talk about what this means from, from a kind of, you know, like momentum,

positive ju-ju standpoint for this J's team. You know, it felt like everything was just

heading in the absolute right direction. You know, you bring back everybody you want to.

Vladdy comes back where he tore the cover off the ball at the WBC. You see one of your guys

winnated, Andreas Jimenez. He hits a big homer in that tournament. And then it feels like they're,

I mean, there are more important players on this team, like heaven forbid. If it were Vladdy that

went down and he was on the shelf for an extended period of time, that obviously is going to impact

you in more of a big way. There are guys that matter more just because there's only one of them,

like an Alejandro Kirk or something like that. But beyond that, I really don't know that there's

anybody that could kind of an injury that could have taken the wind out of the sales more of J's

fans at the start of this year than a savage injury. You know, I, I don't know if you know

this, but my wife and I recently just had kids and you know, we knew we were pregnant or twins.

I should say we already had a kid. We knew we were pregnant during the World Series, like run up

and the amount of people I had texted me, buddy. He's like, hey, you got to consider the name tray.

It's like during that run because he just took over the city. It was, it was completely on fire.

He was the most popular athlete in the city bar none and losing him and not having him there.

He wasn't going to get the ball on opening day, but he's going to get it in the first series of

the season without a shadow of a doubt. And I just think losing him, it really does kind of

take the wind out of the sales. Again, like they have the horses that they can overcome it for a

period of time, but it completely kind of, if you don't have your savage. And again, who knows

what the extent of this is? Like, I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom. This could be a thing where,

hey, he takes his time, he slow plays it and all of a sudden we forget about this by the time

the middle of the season rules around, but I think the big thing with this is it just really takes the

wind out of the sales from kind of a fan expectation or a fan fund standpoint, honestly.

I don't know how he can't. I mean, I don't think this is going to be one of those things that

gets forgotten about swept under the rug. Like, however long this looms, Brent, the team could be

rolling and the narrative could be, yeah, and we don't even have your savage. So wait till he comes

back or on the flip side, right? The team could be struggling. It's a tough American league east

this year and you're kind of just waiting. Well, when is your savage coming back? We don't have

your savage yet. So the pitching staff is surely going to shore up. He set expectations

as high as I've ever seen for a 22 year old pitcher, Brent. Like, you expected it with

Paul screens. I think to an extent, you expected it with your savage down the road. Like, let's

remember in July, us, we were speculating. We were on the station speculating and throwing

tray, you savages name out there in mocked and mocked trades, right? We were throwing him out there

saying maybe they go get a Zach Galen or whoever it is. The J's need to shore up their pitching

staff. You savage surely is on the table. He set expectations ridiculously high. One of the best

post seasons from a pitcher probably under 25 that I've seen in my lifetime. So I don't know how

it can't linger over you, right? This is the dark cloud right now. It's, it's, you know,

if you didn't have faith in Jose Barrios coming back, right? The ugly metrics last year that

the lack of results, that the weirdness around him and the whole rapport of the team fine. Shane

Bieber, I had legitimate expectations for his well, Brent. This is a guy who's want to saw young

lights out before that injury. He came back last year and to your point, they didn't ramp, ramp

him up the way that you thought he would to be expected. You're coming off Tommy John.

You want to manage the ming innings. Make sure the elbows right until he gets into full swing.

The shock was the player option with him. He opts in and maybe you know why at this point. Maybe

he wasn't fully healthy. Maybe he wasn't feeling it, but even then you had high expectations for

Shane Bieber. And again, you don't know when he's coming back, but to your point, I think

you savage is the big one. That was the guy where you've got Gossman. You've got C's at the top

of your rotation. You savage as you're three. The sky's the limit for this guy.

22, you know, us as sports fans, like we're conditioned Brent to just assume that 22-year-old

pitchers who set the bars high as he did, they're only going to get better because he's only 22.

The guy was in like high A last year to begin the season, all of a sudden he's setting records

in the World Series. The expectation is this guy is going to be one of the greats as far as

young pitchers in this game. I don't know how you that can't linger over you. I don't know how

that can't get you down. And I don't know how every single moment that he's out through the season,

whether it's one month, two months, that can't be in the back of your mind hoping and praying that

this guy comes back and having an expectation that when he comes back, Brent, he's going to have

a significant impact on your rotation. Because again, how could you not have those expectations?

He set the bars so high, so we're kind of conditioned to think that.

Yeah, I mean, it's the thing I constantly have to remind myself about in sports,

but it feels like baseball is the king of this. Progress is not linear, right? We want to think

like a guy's this at 21, he's going to be this at 22, 23, and you just kind of keep climbing the

ladder. It does not necessarily work this way, but yeah, you're right to point out that who

wouldn't believe it? You saw it last year. Now, could I see a world where the rigors of a season

get to him and, you know, there's more of a book on him. Sure, but I don't know. You could,

you could take an open book test against Traius Average. It's still failed. He was so difficult

last year. I think the other thing is what this does is the pressure it puts on the others in the

rotation. You know, if Dylan sees comes in and is who he's expected to be and Cosmine is his kind

of baseline self, and then you had the good Traius Average season, it really asks way fewer questions

of your Cody Ponce's of the world or guys along of that ilk, you know, be it Eric Lauer, be it

Shane Bieber, be it Jose Barrios, if he was healthy, because you had that 123 stud at the top of

the rotation. I still think you have one in a two, but all of a sudden, you're going to need,

you know, kind of a higher floor out of a Cody Ponce. And especially when you throw in the fact that

the, you know, the lack of depth behind him now, I think that's the thing. It kind of in one way,

I think it puts a lot more pressure on Cody Ponce. And it also removes a lot of the pressure,

in my opinion, from Eric Lauer, because this is a guy who, you know, it felt like every start he

was going to get us, but let's say, let's say the season started with the savage piggybacking

or Lauer piggybacking off of your savage felt like there was going to be pressure on those outings

to kind of prove what he was. And if there was an injury, what could he be now all of a sudden,

Eric Lauer is going to get some starts to start this season. And he doesn't have to be looking over

his shoulder for Jose Barrios coming to get him or Shane Bieber coming to get him or Cody Ponce

coming to get him because he's just going to have to take a regular turn. You'd think at least

a couple times through given, given the state of this. So I think that's another kind of pretty

interesting thing. It feels like it puts a lot more pressure on Ponce out of the gate. And it

also kind of removes a lot of the must perform pressure on Lauer. I mean, they need him to perform,

but the options just aren't there if he doesn't. Am I crazy, Brent, for having a higher trust

level in Lauer than I do. Cody Ponce and Max Sherzer, like, whoa, hold on, hold on. You'd

mean the guy who was the blue J's best starter last year for much of the season? No, I don't think

that's crazy. Okay, good. I'm glad you feel that way because that's exactly how I feel. And he

was the best blue J starter last season. Like again, you're talking about a guy who limits traffic,

doesn't walk guys. No free passes. He's spinning it around as deceptive as it gets. And again,

the only left handed option in the blue J rotation. And I see his success story coming over

from Korea fine tuning his mechanics and then being able to prove it at the major league level.

It gets you, I guess, a little bit excited for Cody Ponce or maybe very excited. And again,

it's not linear. Not every success story is the same. Every picture profiles differently.

But I think it gives you an idea of what the possibilities for Cody Ponce are. But until that

happens, you just don't know, right? And I mean, Max Scherzer, you mentioned it age 41 season,

fly ball pitcher was excellent for the money was healthy last year. Like a lot of people don't

remember, Brent. He started game seven in the world series. He threw four and two thirds innings

of one run ball. He was excellent. He did absolutely everything and more that the blue J's expected

from him last year. I don't know if you know this about me. I'm a Texas Rangers fan. I watched

Max Scherzer the last couple of years before he joined the blue J's. His back was toast.

I couldn't believe the blue J's took a chance on him even at one year 15 million. I thought it

was a waste of 15 million dollars might as well flushed it down the toilet. He absolutely proved

me wrong. He was fantastic. And so I look at those three and those three of the ones that are

going to have to be relied upon and you know, maybe one, maybe two of them in a in a realistic sense

would have had to pick up a bulk of starts throughout the season anyway. But it does test your

depth early. And I look back at the Yankees last year. No Garrett Cole, right? Carlos Rodón

gets hurt for a large portion of the season. Clark Schmidt gets injured for the second half of

the season. And then a guy like Cam Schletler comes up for the New York Yankees. And sometimes

you get that luxury of the young guy coming up like the blue J's did with his savage like the Yankees

did with Cam Schletler. Sometimes it just completely derails you. So you're right right out of the

gate. It puts the pressure on ponds. It puts the pressure on Schurzer. I'm not so sure it puts

the pressure on Lauer. Like honestly, I do think it's a blessing in disguise that you get the lefty

in the rotation. The guy who was so effective for you last year. I don't even think length or

longevity is an issue with a guy like Eric Lauer. I think if anything, you're playing to his

strengths. This guy's a natural starter. He was a starter for all those years with the Padres

and with the Brewers and the National League. It's in his nature to pitch innings. It's in his nature

to start games, put the team on his back. Maybe not to that extent, but to get them, get them going

out of the gate here. It's it's where he's slotted to be, but it's those other guys, right? Where

you're kind of in between on it's the Max Schurzer's the Cody ponds is and we'll see how that

plays out and how long they're going to be relied upon for in a starting role. Yeah, totally. It

will also be interesting to see the kind of domino effects of this. Obviously Lauer is a guy that

you know, whether they wanted to say it out loud or not, especially given how awkward it was with

with how good he was when he was taking out of the starting rotation last year. This was a guy

who was expected to be kind of part of the bullpen. So it's all of a sudden there are some kind of

roster construction questions that this team is going to have right at the tail end of camp that

you just were not expecting to see here. So I think that'll be kind of fascinating to see the

ripple effects. You know, how many guys in camp now are sitting there like, okay, could be me.

There's one more kind of spot here because Lauer was a guy who again, like, you know, it's not

that the long man is the most important role in the bullpen, but I think especially throw in the

left handed nature of it. Lauer was a guy who certainly kind of shapes the bullpen in one way or

another. Now you take him out of it and you're looking at a, and again, not that you're taking him

out the roster. I think he's going to be in the starting rotation for this team, but now all of a

sudden it kind of asks some different questions of what you're going to do when you when you put that

bullpen together. Now, if I can put a silver lining on this and I'll admit, it's like it's

hard to do. This is the brightest crown jewel in Toronto sports is this was a guy that there were

going to be a lot of questions about how much you could throw on him from an inning standpoint

this year. You know, there was talk and obviously the team like we heard in that clip from Schneider

off the top knew he was dealing with something, but there was a belief that part of the reason they

were slow playing them was because, okay, not a hard and fast innings limit, but let's not go crazy.

You know, throwing him right back into the fire, given what he went through last year. Now all

of a sudden when he does come back and who knows what that is, kind of a murky timeline on these

things. When he does come back and he does get built back up, this should be a guy that you're just

able to kind of ride for the rest of the season. Now again, it's coming off an injury. The first one

of his professional career coming off the roller coaster ride that was last year. So it's far, far,

far from a guarantee, but I do think there's an element where now all of a sudden when he is

ready to rock and who knows when that is, you can just kind of use him as expected. None of this

piggyback stuff, none of this 40 50 pitch outings, you can just kind of use him the way you used him

for much last year. And that's probably the expectation, right? That this is an opportunity for him.

Should, you know, the right shoulder impingement. Should that not, you know, hamper his opportunity

and his abilities to go out there and ramp himself up, right? If he's going to be on the shelf,

take your time. This is a long season. Take your time. Make sure you are good to go. So to your

point, he's able to ramp up and go as long as he can. They're going to need him in a starting

capacity, not the two three innings, not the three four innings. He's going to need to go out

there and give them length. Like maybe not to the same extent. It's kind of given me

out in France's vibes from a year ago, right? He finished 2024, Brent on such a high note.

He had such high expectations for him. And then 2025, he comes in, he sucks and then he gets injured

and you'll probably never hear from Bout in France. It's again, maybe not the same extent, but

it was kind of a similar feeling coming into last year, knowing that you had that guy. The

expectation, although never really linear or it shouldn't always be linear, it's the expectation

of the young guy who sets the bar so high who's supposed to come in and do big things for this team

once again, because he's already shown it at the major league level. Treyah Savage has shown

it on the biggest stage. The expectation this year was that he was always supposed to be ramped up

and it was supposed to be a slow start for Treyah Savage as far as his innings go. But yes,

no question. It tests the depth. The trickle effect is the big one for me because like it's

too full. It sucks for you, Savage. And hopefully it doesn't linger as long as maybe it could,

but on the other hand, how does Cody Ponds handle it? How does Max Sherzer handle it? Again,

I'm most confident in Eric Lauer. I do think by nature, he's a starter. He gives you a left-handed

option. He was fantastic last year. He put out every single fire if he needed to go seven innings

or if he needed to go one inning in a pinch in a jam. This was a guy who could do whatever was

asked of him. So it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out from a rotation standpoint here.

And again, what the expectation is for Cody Ponds. You give him a three year deal. You've seen Eric

Lauer come over from the KBO and give you success. Can Cody Ponds replicate that at least to a certain

extent from the right side of the mound and see what you get from Cody Ponds? Because right away,

you probably expected him to be in a starting role. But now it's pretty much solidified. He might

be your three brand. All of a sudden out of the gate, he's probably pitching in that opening

series against the athletics. Yeah, totally. I mean, you see it all depending on how they want to

to your point, like mix in the lefty with Lauer there. If they do want to actually use him

as three, but from a trust standpoint, yeah, it's easy, easy to make the case that he is number three

in the in the rotation. All of a sudden. And again, with the savage, like just to update people

on this, this is kind of where things stand. He said this from Shide of Edie's piece on sports

net. You should check it out. He's savaged slated to get back up on a mound next Wednesday with

his upcoming steps being to keep quote, building up, building innings, get the pitch, get the

pitch count to a comfortable spot. So I can be a starter. That is all great to hear, right? This

isn't a guy that's going to get put on ice. This isn't a guy who's having is going to need another

spring training ramp up. Those are all encouraging signs. But man, when you have young pitcher with

arm injury, wherever it is, I don't care. Shoulder forearm elbow, impingement, contusion, what use your

medical words. I don't like any of them involved in the pitching arm of a guy who is going to have a

big, big say in how this season plays out one way or another. So that's where we currently stand

with with with tray, you savage there. All right. We'll have plenty more on the jays coming up,

including after seven o'clock. We'll get into why they're doing things. It just seems like perfect

in the city of Toronto outside of the trade savage health stuff. But honestly, I don't think there's

anything they could do about that. Austin Matthews goes under the knife. We're going to get into what

that means for the Leafs summer. Freeze has some hot Matthew knives rumors in the latest 32

thoughts. And and why does that keep March Madness? We'll talk about all that more on the other

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Been sleeping for the past two days trying to get get on the rest here and even I saw this news.

Austin Matthews undergoing surgery for the knee injury that that criminal Radco-Gudus

levied upon him 12 week timeline for the surgery. Bodenstein I mean look it's never good news

when a player needs surgery. I am happy that they just went and got this dealt with. You know

sometimes you'll see guys get hurt and it'll be well let's see how rehab deals with an issue.

You know maybe the severity of the grade three which is just it's called a tear of the MCL

that their hand was kind of forced in this way but if there is a shred of good news and there's

not but if there were to be it's the Matthews has had his surgery and he should be good to go for

September with the 12 week recovery timeline for for that procedure. If it's a tear especially

with a ligament if it's a ligament tear and it's grade three which is pretty severe get it done

right? I mean you're not going to try to rehab this thing without surgery and I think the

expectation again to your point is that he's going to be 100% good to go. You know I was wondering

what the biggest I guess deterrent would be with an injury like this even when you get back to

100% like are there going to be any lingering effects and you know a couple weeks ago on my show

after after the injury happened actually had a sports doctor on he friend and I was asking him

is it going to be the pivoting you know is it going to be his edges is it going to be his first

stride like what's going to be affected by this injury most and he essentially said the power of

his stride you know getting off you know pushing off that leg I think that that's the big one for him

because if Austin Matthews and I'm not saying that this is going to linger over to next year but

you never really know right for him he needs to be a threat off the rush I think the big thing for

Austin Matthews is as a goal score opening up space for yourself getting into goal scoring areas

it's not just the shot that was affected you you saw him struggle to get to the middle of the ice

the hope the expectation is that when the knees 100% healthy that that doesn't linger but I guess

like if there is one concern with an injury like this it's the power of his stride and that's a guy

who can't afford to lose it but to your point get that surgery out of the way get him ramped up

starting from July it sounds like you know if it is a 12 week timeline if it's if it's late July

where he's good to go that's probably best case scenario if it's June that's best case scenario he's

essentially got the majority of the off season to strengthen that knee get back to 100% because

whether your team tank and tank team blow it up or team let's get back in contention next year

the reality is Brent they need Austin Matthews they're captain they're 28 year old superstar making

13.25 a year even if you want the team to blow it up you need that guy playing it to the best

of his abilities you need to maximize that acid if you want to trade him you need to maximize

that acid if you want to build around him right so like there is no scenario and no lane that you

can pick where you don't want Austin Matthews to be what he once was so I think you know get him

a hundred percent for next year regardless of where you want this team to go it's it's encouraging

yeah the only the only people this is good news for is the members at whatever course in

Scottsdale he is he is a member at because sometimes just opened up on the t sheet uh until about

July uh because he's dealing with that that recovery no this is to to your point and I want to be

clear I actually let's just say where we're at on this I am not on team blow it up and the biggest

reason for that is because I don't think you can get the value you you if you're going to blow it

up you need to have the shrapnel turn into valuable things for you and Austin Matthews value has

never been lower and I feel that even before the knee injury happened so I just think that this

kind of forces the Leafs into a box of okay if you want to trade knee lander like I don't think his

value has changed at all since the kind of high watermark right when he signed that contract but

with Matthews it feels like the values really never been lower you you have this injury now to

throw into the mix and it does feel like to me and again I think this is the place they should be

at regardless but even if there was a belief of okay you know what maybe this era is dead and gone

and did it go as bad as it possibly could have during this era yes like this is a bottom five

percent outcome if you run a simulation a thousand times of what this what this is but I think

even now it's kind of forcing the hand of uh short of Matthews being like you know what this is

I'm out I'm done and I don't think he's going to do that I don't think you can and this kind of

forces their hand to just not stay the course by any means there need to be a lot of changes and

there needs to be a new vision and a new voice and a new GM and a new head coach in my opinion as

well but I do think this kind of forces the Leafs hand in terms of where they go with Matthews

because what is the value you'd get from now coming off another diminished offense of output

season and you throw in the who knows of a major you know lower body surgery at this stage of

his career. I don't know I don't know if they would have traded him anyway Brent like even if

I don't think so. Yeah right I mean like the first of all the values low second how do other teams

view him and it's funny we've we've got Nick Capriose coming up on the show at 7 30 I think he's

a good guy to talk to because he even spoke on his show yesterday maybe the Minnesota wild were

poking around on Austin Matthews I don't know how they fit him on the books you know between what

Quinn Hughes makes in between what Carole Caprizov makes but they're about to pay that boldly I don't

even know how that would work but to your point what do they even get back for him and I don't even

know if there's such thing as a rebuild if you're holding on to Austin Matthews like at Matthews

at 28 kneelander at 29 there's no such thing as rebuilding with those two in the four like you're

almost trading those guys and going full rebuild and expecting to stink for four or five years or

you're holding on to them and you're in a contention window especially Brent with some of these

contracts that they've got on the books like you got JT at the discount fine full no move clause

35 years old he'll be 36 next year on the books for three more years and I get the caps going up

but you know between the domies and the Joshua's the Carlos Tanev's uncertain future as far as his

health goes Ekman Larson like Morgan Riley's at the forefront of this conversation you have a lot

of money on the books for a lot of years for guys that probably shouldn't be there if you are in

a contention window and if you want to rebuild how do you even move away from those guys number one

the no move clause number two not attractive contracts whatsoever it puts them in such a tight spot

and I don't think Brad tree levings the guy to dig them out of this hole and I don't know what they

want to do as far as a team president a new GM a new coach whoever's going to put out this mess

and whoever's going to turn the tide here in leafland whether the expectation is to contend next

year or to contend a few years from now and recoup some assets I don't know how you dig out of

this because I think from a financial standpoint alone and just given the age of your two best

players and given what they've been able to do given the price tags there is no easy solution I don't

know how you even how do you trade them because there's no way you get any sort of fair value back

from what their peak once was Matthews he has the 69 goals he has the 60 goals william

kneelander this is a guy who's who's shown strides throughout his career as a guy's a capable

putting up 100 points as a winger a play driving winger you take mariner out of the fold now it's

look completely different Matthew nises values low right now he's already signed his extension

like you're in a situation now from a contract standpoint where you're already kind of strapped in

and throw this injury in there even if he's a hundred percent next season I just don't see any

way you can move that guy and get any fair value back and I don't see how you rebuild with a guy

like that in the fold so they're almost kind of forced to contend next year even though the team

isn't very good and even though they have all these bad contracts on the books for all these

average players slow players guys who aren't creating any sort of plays it's a tough situation

for the maple leaves right now Matthews is at the forefront of this however they handle this

Brent I'll say this you cannot fumble this asset like if you want to move Austin Matthews fine

you can't do that right now obviously but you cannot fumble the asset either keep him around

and you build around him if you can do that or you move him for obviously more than pennies on

the dollar you get more than what he's worth if you're trading a guy like that it's a really tough

situation I don't know who the GM's going to be I don't know who's going to be making this decision

who's going to be making this call but this is the one asset you can't fumble and I think you're

right it kind of forces them into this box into this corner here where you have to hold on to Austin

Matthews even if you were thinking about trading Austin Matthews now you're almost forced to hold

on to him and you kind of have to build around him that's how this team is built with Matthews

and Nealander in the fold you have to build around them but I've said it for years now these aren't

the guys to lead you we've seen it in so many big moments where and the lack of dynamic the lack

of dynamic see if that's even a word for Matthews and Nealander like they haven't been able to show

that they're not the Martians they're not the conchucks they're not the guys that bring that extra

added element there been way too many times throughout the course of their tenure with the maple leaves

where the teams pushed around you they're not guys you'll look to on the bench and say this guy's

got us this guy's going to drag us out of the fight. I think the bigger point I'm trying to

make here is like you're almost kind of forced to hang on to these guys but I don't think they're

the guys that lead you to a Stanley Cup so it's just the mushy mess that the Leafs are in right now.

Yeah, I don't I don't know that I'm totally there because I've the team I've long pointed to

has been the Florida Panthers, right? And you point out Cuchuck and you point out Marshan and

all the band of jerks they got there everyone to a man says that Sasha Markov is the leader that

is the guy on that team now look would you like it better of course if Austin Matthews was wired

like Sydney Crosby is wired or like McDavid and Trisaddle seem to be wired who have also won no cups

but by the way I think of course you'd love that in a better world but I also think that the problem

and this is like well trodden ground but the critical flaw of this group wasn't any one of them

it was that they were all so similar and you know bring back Mitch Marner for this conversation as well

Marner, Tavarez, Nylander, Matthews all wired too similarly you needed a wires Crosky you needed

a screw loose guy in the in the bunch there and you and you didn't have it and I just think that

was the biggest the biggest problem here again like I don't think the Leafs were looking to pivot

off of them but let's say let's say they were you know generally speaking when you are trying to

get a coach in here or a GM in any situation you want to say okay what if they had success doing

in their last stop and can they replicate it at this one or take lessons they learned there and

bring them into this spot you show me the GM that has made the trade where you trade superstar

player for you know the the dollar for four quarters trade and it's like oh they actually got five

quarters and one of the quarters turned out to be a dollar themselves generally speaking you

just lose that trade every time if you're doing the like big swing deal now I think if they

wanted to move Nylander you still get a haul for him this is a guy who even in a down year

that's been disappointing where he's flipping off the fans you know he's still well above a point

per game and that's kind of the mark you look at for elite scoring winger you you mentioned the

contracts that are on the books for this team I don't like most of the ones you mentioned either

but that's not the problem they got twenty plus million a cap space this summer the problem is

who are you going to spend it on in an NHL world where nobody worth a damn makes it to free agency

like I like Alex talk I think he's a good player I refuse to believe he will be the one that

leads this leaves team to the promised land right it's like Nick Schmaltz got signed up he was

going to be the center de jour in free agency this year and that's not a guy that I think is

changing the world than any any kind of way shape or form so I just think that's the the kind of

frustrating spot now if you were going to make a trade where it is possible and I shouldn't say

it's impossible to win a knee land or a Matthews trade but it does kind of feel like whoever gets

the better player usually wins these deals is is something in line of a of a math unized trade so

freeze in in his latest thirty two thoughts obviously we we had heard there was some smoke around

knives at the deadline maybe the Montreal Canadians were believed to be involved again this from

Friedman's latest thirty two thoughts teams that showed serious interest in Matthew knives

including Anaheim Chicago Montreal Jersey and Utah everyone is denied the Canadians went far

down that road but dot dot dot we'll see very dramatic Elliott sorry that's my editorializing

there were some teams who didn't believe the leaves were serious about it but now they recognize

it's a possibility knives is not a guy I'm clamoring to trade by any means if there is somebody that

maybe has some of that in him he feels like the guy right but when you have that long a list of

suitors and you were think I would imagine you're not doing knives for a bunch of pieces but maybe

it's like a piece in a piece or you know an NHL player plus something else then maybe you can come

out on the positive side of that trade you know the ducks with the team I immediately jumped to

just because they have so many young defensemen they have so much young talent there they have a

center in Mason McTavish that they aren't happy with the way it's gone and he probably isn't happy

given the way the contract played out there that was the one that intrigued me when I heard they

were thinking about trading knives to Montreal I almost threw up just because I I'm sorry I've been

a leaf fan too long I know how that's going to go and it's not going to be with them waiting the

trade but with the ducks that one started to intrigue me a little bit and I say that not as a guy

that's trying to run knives out of town I think he is closer to a solution than a problem with this

group but I didn't think that was pretty interesting. Yeah, I mean it look if there is going to be any

framework around a math unized trade you know whether that was you know the conversations already

happened and they died and they're committed to math unized or if they're going to happen down the

road you got to imagine Brent it's probably going to be like a hockey trade right it's going to be

math unized for one of those young defensemen a two-way guy a true two-way guy who can play all

minutes all situations a guy who you can rely on for you know 27 28 minutes a night the

Maple Leafs haven't had that in God knows how long like 20 years maybe more than 20 years I can't

remember the last time the Maple Leafs have had a true number one defenseman and I look at successful

teams and I look at Stanley Cup champions I look at teams who have done it in the playoffs they've

all got at least one of those guys and all situations defensemen they thought Morgan Riley was

that Morgan Riley was never that like Morgan Riley has never been that guy and that's kind of

been part of the problem they've used him in that way when he's just not that I don't I'm not

advocating for a math unized trade either because we've just talked about it like you need those

dynamic core players for a really long time even you know say Austin Matthews and William

Neilander are still your top players and this team's a cup contender next year well Matthew

Nies is going to have to be that second layer the guy who brings the nastiness this team gets pushed

around far too often like I referenced this game all the time Brent I thought this team was a little

bit different you know last year I think they showed a little bit more fight they were tougher to

play against as far as clogging the middle of the ice but also the whistle the whistle stuff also

you know you came into Scotiabank Arena and the expectation was you're not going to bully this team

you're not going to push this team around once again well they proved me wrong in November that

game in Boston I think was November 11th where Stolars gets hurt Matthews gets hurt the team's

getting absolutely dumbied and Oliver Atman Larson is seen kind of melting to Nikita Zedora who

shoving him in the corner I'm not going to fight you well I mean they showed it against the

Anaheim Ducks as well why is Easton Cow in the guy who has to step in pretty much from the press

box to come in the lineup and be able to drop the gloves when you know you've had teammates of

Matthews for the last nine years you bring in all this muscle in the offseason nobody drops the

mitts there needs to be a culture change in Toronto I think Matthew Nies is already in the mix here

to be part of that culture change to change the way this team is viewed change the way this team

is played be tougher to play against so again we're not advocating for a deal but if there is a

waybren to get like a coveted right handed shot young defenseman a guy who could play all

situations I'll throw Simone Nemitz's name out there with with the New Jersey Devils because his

name's kind of been in trade talks like if there is framework to get a deal done around

knives and Nemitz I'm more inclined to do that than than probably you know making a trade for

a similar player or pieces right you mentioned that one dollar for four quarters deal give me like

a one for one deal where you know you're getting an established young defenseman who's going to

actually carry you to where you want to go do those things that are necessary I think that's

probably the only framework I could see making sense around a knives deal but I'd be more than happy

if I'm a leaf and keeping him this is a guy I think that you need in your top six a guy that you

need to be that unicorn do what he's doing granted he hasn't had the season we thought he would we

talk about your savage setting the expectations so high at such a young age the knee injury I think

is hampered Matthew nice he hasn't looked the same but I do really believe Brent that when this

player is at his peak they've got him at a really good price tag at seven seven five I think that's

that's an excellent job by Brad tree living a rare tree living W as they like to say but I think

this guy's part of the solution not part of the problem to your point yeah I'll be honest where I've

kind of arrived with knives and hey like please I've I've only a clamored for this group to do this

for nine seasons so let's try it for a 10th it proved me wrong but it does feel like a damned if

you do damned if you don't situation with knives because let's say you hold on to him right and

there's not the big change and the culture shift is going to come from I don't know let's say

everybody gets their their pipe dream wish and it's Doug Armstrong and Pete DeBore who are coming

in here to be the new face of the Leafs well I don't know that honestly two guys in suits are

enough to kind of change the tenor of the way everything in this org does things and then Matthew

knives kind of continues to take the path he's more recently taken as opposed to the one he came

when he first you know stepped into the league and he's fighting guys and he's running through them

but I also can see a world where a team that covets that says hey let me bring in Matthew knives

and they kind of nurture that animal side of him and then you look at what he becomes on the flip

side of it that that's what I think is the the kind of scariest scariest thing about this from

a from a Leafs perspective and Brent and Brent to your point as well like that can happen like

Sam Bennett was not that player in Calgary Sam Bennett goes over to the Florida Panthers and changes

his game you saw the hockey side of things get better for him but it was really that secondary

stuff that nastiness where he really started to embrace that and to your point I think that comes

with the culture change and maybe Matthew nice can kind of lean into that and embrace it a little

bit more somewhere else because you I mean this is this is a culture a team where you need that

kind of shift you haven't seen it yet Matthew nice has that in him but he's kind of the only guy

so I thought you know when you said that Sam Bennett was kind of the first guy that popped in my mind

because it has been done before guys have changed their style of play depending on where they're

playing and they've been better for it no totally and I again like prove me wrong but does it

feel like that's going to go the other way for the Leafs like no they don't feel like the org

that can kind of take that diamond in the rough and turn them into you know rough and tumble and

okay maybe Sam Bennett at what fourth overall wasn't the diamond in the in the rough there but I

do think that you you want to be the org that can kind of pull that out of people and it just

hasn't hasn't felt like it's been the case you know the Leafs have been able to get that from

players if it already existed before right like I think when they made the move for Ryan O'Reilly

at the deadline the year they beat Tampa it's like yeah that existed from him who's already a

cons my trophy winner and they got him as a as a pure rental at the at the deadline you know this

wasn't a case of buying the next five years of of somebody's future so I am I guess where I had

land on it is I am open to the possibility of a nice trade but I'd be lying if I was I was all

that that bullish on the idea I'm not not super enamored with the idea of it but I could see a

world where it happens because they feel like they have to make a big change in one way or another

and it's not gonna happen with Matthews this year the knee lander one still feels like a scary

trigger to pull especially if you're the new GM on the block knives does feel like maybe the

most likely area that that happens and you know I don't know that he is necessarily part of the

problem but he hasn't proven to be part of the solution either all right the blue jays they've

got nothing but solutions not so much for the starting rotation because man they're running out

of guys quickly they still have enough but they seem to just nail the ballpark experience year over

year over year fan experience as well what can the other teams in this city take from what the blue

jays are doing so correctly also Brady Kachaki got into it last night I want to talk about that

a little bit and I promise we'll make Zach explain himself when it comes to March Madness on the

other side the fair board issue continues the sports step five died in the fan

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