You Don’t Escape Debt by Waiting—You Escape by Acting

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Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, number one best selling author, Ramsey Personality, host of the Big Hit on

the Ramsey Network.

I'll front row seat.

He's my co-host today.

The phone number here is AAA825225, Patson Boise Idaho, hi Pat, how are you?

Hi Dave, thanks for talking to me.

I'm the executor for my dad's estate.

About six months after his death, I received a letter looking for the person who could act

on his behalf.

I looked up the company and it's a debt collection agency primarily focused on collecting

debts related to deceased individuals.

Wow.

They utilize tech now.

Yep, they take.

Yeah, I've never heard of this either.

They utilize technology like probate, find their own demand to identify and contact the

personal representatives of the state to recover unpaid debts.

So my dad absolutely did not have any debt.

He was Dave Ramsey.

Well, Dave was running around the diapers.

He did a borrow money.

I do know that there is just from looking at unclaimed property, I do know that there is

a gentleman who lived in the same mental areas, my dad, for many years, who had his exact

name, first name, middle initial and last name, so I'm thinking, well, maybe they're looking

for that guy.

Here's the deal.

I don't even want to talk to them.

I don't want to spend time on this.

I don't know if you need to know the name of the company, but how worried do I need to

be?

Well, I mean, is the estate settled?

The probate is finished, but it's not closed yet.

I haven't closed it.

Okay.

What is lacking for it to be closed?

Nothing.

I was just doing some final insurance policies and transfer of his property to my mother.

So that is done.

I can close the estate at any time, as far as I know, there was nothing that came up during

the probate.

So your mom's still there, and she's sitting with whatever assets that they had.

Yes.

Okay.

Good.

Okay.

Well, I don't know Idaho law, and I'm not an attorney anyway, even if I did, but the

most states have a period of time that a creditor can file a claim against the state

before, after, or during the probate being open, okay?

And I don't know what yours is.

Right.

Okay.

So if they didn't, I'm probably good.

Okay.

From a legal, practical standpoint, or from a legal standpoint.

From a practical standpoint, these folks, they get, they have one little thread that they're

hanging on, and they're going to pull that thread and pull that thread and pull that

thread.

They're eventually going to end up hassling your mom, probably.

So from a practical standpoint, I would put them down.

I have a power of attorney, so they won't get much further than me.

I know.

But if they start calling her, start mailing, failing up her mailbox with stuff, I don't

think there's a legal issue.

I don't think they've got to claim.

You don't think they've got to claim.

They're probably outside the notice of meeting the creditor's period of time.

I, all that kind of stuff.

But that doesn't keep them from driving everybody in the, in the soup crazy, okay?

So I probably would invest a few minutes and just shut them down.

How do I shut them down?

I would just call them and say, he did not have any debt with you.

I'm the executor of the estate, and you can give them a social security number, send them

a copy of the desk certificate, none of that hurts you in any way.

I'll give you the last four digits of social security numbers if it matches with what you

think you're hunting, but I think you're hunting this other guy, and you need to stop.

If you don't provide me proof of written proof of debt, and you don't stop, I'm going

to sue you under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, because you're violating it.

Now that I have told you that I am demanding proof of the debt.

And I just said demand proof of the debt without providing them anything to start with.

Well, I, I, I, I, the last four digits, so security number.

What I'm trying to do is, in case there's two brain cells on the guy you're talking to,

if they happen to rub together, you want to give him a way to go away.

Oh, it's not him.

I got to go the other way, okay, right?

But in case they, if they think, but the problem is some of these companies and what, what

you need to be prepared for is, and I think you're kind of already there, is they will try

to collect from someone that is, that they know is not legitimately the debt just by hassling

them.

And that's what I'm worried about.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not worried about it, because you're going to shut them down.

We're not going to talk to them anymore.

Okay.

And if they continue to pursue, I would have an attorney send them a letter under the

Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, because they're in violation of federal law.

If they continue to pursue, after you show them that it is not his debt, and you give them

last four digits, so security number, and they don't provide proof of debt.

The other thing that's going to come up is they probably don't have proof of debt.

They probably bought a line item on a spreadsheet.

A lot of debt buyers don't get the actual documentation on the debt.

They just get a line item, point of last contact, some details about a name, whatever the files

got, and it's just a whole list of line items.

It's not like they have a file on them.

So they point me in, I don't think they can provide proof of debt.

But I'm going to ask, because I'm going to make one or two phone calls with these people

and try to, in a civil way, make this go away.

But if you determine that, A, they're trying to collect from somebody, just anybody, and

they just think they can hassle you, then just pound their face, right, or B, that they

cannot provide proof of debt, and they won't go away.

What I'm more than anything trying to do is get them to quit calling you and quit calling

your mom.

And it's worth two phone calls to invest in that, or never call your mom.

Okay.

Right, I like that.

Okay.

And then, but again, write that down, it's the Federal Fair debt collection practices

act.

Okay.

And it is federal law that they're violating.

If you demand a proof of debt, they don't provide it, and they continue to attempt collection.

Hammer them.

I was looking for something to add, you covered it from every angle.

You know, look, you got the facts.

And so don't be afraid to take this on and then shut it down.

I think that's what this is.

I don't think this is harassment.

I just think Dave's nailed it.

They don't have a lot of info.

It's not harassment yet.

No, yeah.

Probably is going to be there if it doesn't stop.

That's right.

So the thing is folks, you got to do debt buyers when they buy debts are typically paying

anywhere from two to eight cents on the dollar.

So they're paying 80 bucks for a thousand dollar debt.

And they can't even find the people in most cases.

In this case, they're chasing deceased people's debt.

Okay.

So they're always trying to chase down the, this is basically prospecting.

Yeah.

They're dialing for dollars all day long.

And it's a horrible job.

And here's a, you want to be worse than somebody trying to collect on an old debt.

Collect on an old debt that you know the person is dead.

Right.

I mean, this is a bad job.

It's cleaning septic tanks is more fun.

And so, honestly, seriously, oh my gosh, what a horrible position.

So they probably got high turnover, got a boiler room, a phone room going, looks like something

on Wolf of Wall Street or something.

That's right.

And they're just, you know, and the average time on the job's 21 days and they're just constantly

hiring new people that are dialing for dollars, you probably don't go talk to the same person

twice.

And they're brainwashed by the way.

They come at you with a script.

Oh, yeah.

And so that they don't get knocked off, so you've got to really be strong and show a lot

of facts.

And the other thing is the neat thing about the technology is you can just hang the phone

up.

Just push in.

That's always enjoyable.

And then slide that little thing over.

This says block.

And you're done.

They're done.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America, Open phones, a triple eight, eight, two, five, two,

two, five.

And I'm going to say, Franky is in Greenville, North Carolina.

Hi, Franky.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So I have a pretty great forward question.

I talked to my dad yesterday and he wants me to pay for his life insurance policy.

He said, I should think of it like an investment and he doesn't want to actually pay for it

himself.

So I just wanted some advice on maybe how I can talk to him about paying for his own

life insurance.

Or should I pay for it myself?

That's so weird, isn't it?

Yeah.

When you heard that, you had to go, say what?

I don't know if you said it out loud, but you said it in your head, didn't you, Franky?

I did.

And he said it to my mom and he said, you know, because he's not going to be receiving

any of the benefits, I was like, well, I mean, that's kind of the point.

He was saying, something's not going to be receiving it.

I should pay for it.

Yeah.

How old are you?

I'm 24.

And how old is he?

65.

Is he ill?

Not necessarily.

I mean, you have some health issues, but I mean, for his age, you know.

But his death is not eminent as far as we know.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you could be doing this for like 30 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's a hard pass.

That's a big, that's a big NO.

Nope.

Nope.

Let's just call that.

Let's check the box beside.

Now, the question was, your question was though, how do I talk to him about it?

Just go, Dad, you know, I'm 24.

I'm going to be doing other kinds of investing rather than in your death.

And I don't, I don't think we're going to go this way, but thanks for the offer.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think that pretty simple.

You don't need to be snarky about it, although it's really tempting, but it doesn't serve

any purpose.

Just be snarky about it, other than make you feel just because it's just strange and

he knows it's strange.

And I don't know.

Your dad does stuff like this often, doesn't he?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's got quirky, quirky, quirky dude.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would just smile and say, Dad, you know, thanks for the offer.

I've kind of thought about this and I talked with my financial guys and they said, I should

just be doing regular investing rather than investing in your death.

And I'm just not comfortable doing that and so, but thanks for the offer.

No.

And I really wouldn't go into a bunch of, I wouldn't go into a long lengthy discussion

about it.

It's just two sentences and no.

But what I'm going to do is I'm going to play this back for him later.

Okay.

That's fun.

You could tell him I said, obviously, he's quirky, but that's a really quirky thing to say.

To your 24 year old daughter, dude, if you're going to play it for him, I mean, I wouldn't

do that to my 24 year old daughter.

You've got other things you should be doing with your life rather than investing in your

dad's death.

I mean, and besides that mathematically, it's a bad investment because insurance companies

make money on insurance.

The probability of his death is, and the payout is less than the premiums that they think

they're going to receive.

If they don't receive premiums equal to the payout before he dies, they lose money on

the insurance.

That often enough, they go out of business, so insurance companies make money on insurance,

which by translation means it's not a good investment.

It is a good purchase for those of you out there.

We had a debt-free screen yesterday, I believe, our day before yesterday, that the young lady's

husband was killed in the car wreck, who's 30 something years old, two months before they

were debt-free, two months before that, he had gotten life insurance and he had a brand-new

baby.

But that's a good time to buy life insurance.

That's perfect.

I mean, that family's taken care of because that young man was just a stellar dad and husband.

But this is a completely different thing.

It's not a good investment, mathematically.

It is a protection for your family in the case of a horrible event happening.

But if your dad doesn't, he's 65, he may not need life insurance.

If he's got enough money, he could not just not buy life insurance.

I'm 63.

I don't have any life insurance.

I have a huge pile of money and no debt.

If I die, Sharon's going to have a party.

She doesn't need life insurance, okay?

And it'll be a big party.

I guess not if I die.

When I die, if I die before her is what I should say right here.

Well, we will solve it.

We know that that's her plan.

I'm a little worried about it.

Yeah.

I mean, the date of it probably backs that up, I would just say this, this is like common

core math.

It just doesn't make sense and we already have good math.

We don't need to invent something.

This is just a wacky idea.

The minute I heard it, it's just wacky.

And you can't, by the way, reason with wacky, I just got to move on quickly.

Yeah, I wouldn't.

No debt.

No.

You didn't have to deal with common core math, but I'm glad because it would have made

the top of your head explode.

It must have been what happened.

Okay.

Joel is in Chicago.

Hi, Joel.

What's up?

Hi, guys.

Pleasure to talk to both of you finally.

I have a question about a debt question.

I just started listening to you guys a couple of weeks ago.

I've been been watching your podcast or listening to your podcast for like every day nonstop.

So me and my wife have been talking about this and we're getting ready to start the baby

steps.

We have the 1000 already set.

The issue that I'm having is, is I get you guys some quick number full fast.

We're about 25 to 30 in credit card and personal loan debt.

We have about 31,000 in two car loans, 122 in our mortgage, and we have a second home

up to our first purchase that still sits at about 40 K and that's being rented currently.

And so what's your household income?

We make around 140 combined before tax and your question simply has.

How to start the baby steps?

Yes.

Okay.

We get on an every dollar budget.

You and your wife are in agreement that we're going to get out of debt and we're going

to sacrifice to do that because if you didn't have any of these payments, you'd have a lot

of money agreed.

Exactly.

And that's the whole idea.

And so do you have any savings that's not in retirement?

No.

Just the one K for the start up.

You got the baby step one.

Okay.

So all these debts, smallest to largest, we're going to pay minimum payments on everything

but the little one.

We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as an extra job

and you're not going to go on vacation.

You are broke people that make $140,000 a year and you need to clean up this $70,000 or

worth of stupidity before you do anything else, stupid but car loans and all these other

mess you've got.

And you've got to get disgusted about it and attack it and attack it and attack it to

where your friends think you've joined a cult.

I agree.

The one thing I did want to mention is like the one car loan, we owe $2,000 on it so that

will be gone in like the next four months.

Good.

No, no, no, no.

It doesn't take four months to pay off $2,000 when you make $140,000.

But you do that the first time.

I agree.

Yeah, I agree.

I totally agree with that.

All right.

The second thing is the second car is our second vehicle, which is an SUV.

That one's the one that stayed in about $29,000 and I told my wife we need to just give

her to the car.

Yeah.

And that's where she's grown up.

No, I wasn't.

Well, the best way to get your wife on board is not say I want to sell your car.

Well, that's actually just like a weekend vehicle.

I drive a personal, I mean, a work vehicle.

Monday to Friday.

Is that your car?

It drives.

It's kind of both our cars, but we use it because we have to be kid.

So it's a larger vehicle.

Okay.

So you have a work car.

Yep.

That you own.

It's a company vehicle, but I don't know how it's kind of vehicle.

Okay.

And then she has a car.

Yep, which is the one that's about to be paid off and that's a community vehicle to work

every day.

And then the other one has $29,000 owed on it.

Yep.

Well, her car that she owns carry your family?

Yeah.

We'll fit.

I mean, my oldest is about to finish high school and the other one the smallest one is

like 10 years old.

So I mean, you fit not that not much space, but I told her, you know, something you could

do if you really wanted to.

Yeah.

The other thing you could do.

What's the rental worth?

Um, I think about one, one twenty one thirty.

Yeah.

You could dump it and clean up the whole mess, but either one of those is fine.

Orange or night, neither if you want to just bust all the way through it.

You're going to trade sacrificed lifestyle, scorched earth lifestyle longer.

You're going to stay in the mess longer if you don't move one or both of these other

items.

And that's the decision the two of you can make together.

This is the Ramsey show.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how

absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies.

And there's two little life insurance or none at all.

Making families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and kind of make ends meet.

I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like

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at eight hundred three five six forty two eighty two.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us America.

The best way to make the most of your money is a plan.

Tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Most people the money comes in, the money goes out, the only names are changed to protect

the innocent.

We don't know where it went.

That's most people.

And then you scratch your head and wonder why you're broke.

If you ran a company and your job was to manage money and you manage money the way you

manage money for you, you'd get fired for incompetence.

So because if you if you're working a business, you're supposed to have a budget and then

you're supposed to like stick to it and stuff.

Hello.

That's kind of basic y'all.

I mean, it's really not hard, but it's hard because it's dealing with me and I got

to look at the teenager and go, now, and I got to have a discussion with my spouse about

spending and, you know, we got to quit eating out every freaking night of our lives and then

wondering why we have no retirement because we're eating it.

That's why basic stuff like that comes up when you do a budget.

Hello.

That's why we came up with the idea that every dollar needs an assignment.

Every dollar needs a name.

Every dollar of your money before the month begins needs a mission beside it.

You need to send it out there to do stuff for you.

You work too hard to be broke.

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And let's get started, boys and girls.

It's time to do this.

Open phones at triple eight, eight, two, five, two, two, five, Johns in New York.

Hey, John.

How are you?

Hi Dave.

How are you, sir?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Good.

I'm around 23 years old and I had around 57,000 liquid cash in the bank.

And I got kind of screwed over by the car industry twice now, when I was 19, I bought a new Mustang

on site, very bad mistake.

And obviously I was upside down and now I have a Cadillac, obviously I got a pre-owned.

And now that loan is around at 35,000.

I just got it about eight, nine, once ago.

And then I have student loans of about 25,000, they're not crazy high because of what's

a community college.

I've been listening to you guys for a while.

And I just wanted to hear what that what do you make around 80,000?

What do you do?

I'm a bartender.

My family's restaurant.

Okay.

Very cool.

Very cool.

Thank you.

Okay.

So your questions, what should I, because I've watched a couple of your videos, if I should

just take the 57,000 and dump it into all the debt and just clear it, but then I have

nothing left in my account, or do I like do thousands at a time and knock it down as

quick as I can.

Okay.

Is your goal to be wealthy?

Yes.

Yeah.

Because you make a lot of money.

You're doing really good.

You must work really hard.

I do.

Yeah.

I worked six days a weekend and some serious hours, too.

Yeah.

Good for you.

Thank you.

Good for you.

I mean, you're pretty sweet spot for 23 years old, overall.

I mean, you've done some stupid stuff.

So all right, a couple of things that come out of the conversation is one, you did not get

screwed by the car industry.

You got screwed by you because you walked on to the car lot and you bought a car you

couldn't afford because you were acting like a child.

Is that fair?

Yeah.

Yeah, of course.

Okay.

You're not a victim, dude.

You caused this.

All right.

Both times.

So I don't know what a guy making 80,000 bucks that's 23 years old, working his butt

off needs with a 35,000-dollar Cadillac.

I don't know why you have to have that.

You might rather have the cash than that.

Right.

So one option, sell a car and buy a $10,000 car for cash and then you don't have to

give up all your cash.

You just give up the Cadillac.

That's the main thing I want to avoid is I don't want to just deplete all my savings that

I worked for.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, the Cadillac is on the block.

So I mean, if you want to keep the Cadillac, you need to pay it off.

Right.

Your money's already gone.

Paying it off, you just admit it.

You've already spent the money.

You just hadn't admitted it yet by paying off the debt.

Of course, yeah.

So, you know, so you can, but you can, you can choose, okay, do I want, because basically

if you sold the car for 35,000 bucks and you took $10,000 of your, and you broke even

got out of it, cleared it, right?

Well, it bring 35?

No, I think it'll bring 24 because I got, I was upside down from the other way around

negative into it.

Yeah.

I was around 9,000 negative.

Okay.

And then I put five.

So you're going to spend 10 of your money, even if you sell it, and you're going to spend

another 10 of your money to buy a car, and you're going to spend some money to pay off

the student loan debt, right?

And you said, so you said 25 in student loans?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So you're 60 and you got 57, so you don't have enough to pay off everything.

Yeah.

Quite, but I mean, you're making money and you're used to stacking cash, because you,

so, all right, the premise is this, if we could get you where you had no payments, student

loan and the car payments gone through whatever mechanism, either paying it off or selling

the car, either one, you choose, okay?

If we can get you where you don't have any payments, but you're, most of your money

is gone.

Without any payments making 80K, you could stack that cash up real quick again.

It won't take long, just a few months.

Yes.

I mean, you probably saved $5,000, $6,000 a month, can't you, if you don't have any payments.

Yeah.

Are you living in home?

Right.

I am.

Yeah.

Me and my mom and dad live above the restaurant.

Yeah.

So you got almost no overhead.

I thought that.

Okay.

So that's how, that's how the 57 got there.

I got some quick numbers here.

I want to run with you here.

I think you're still walking away with Dave's plan with 11,000 in cash because if you

owe 11, so you're going to pull 11 out to, because you're upside down, you're going

to spend 10 on another car.

So that's 21, 57 money, 21 is 36, we owe 25 in student loan.

That leaves you with 11K and no payments in a paid for 10,000 on a car and you live

at home with a pretty secure job and you're stacking cash like a boss, man.

Right.

You can, you stack 6,000, I mean, in 10 months, you'd have 60,000 bucks on top of the

11.

You'd have $71,000 in 10 months.

I mean, I also have a 10,000 in an IRA that I'm asking out every month as well.

Well, I would, I would stop that until we get this mess cleaned up, but if you're going

to clean up the mess in one fell swoop, you don't have to stop it.

But you can stack cash.

You're following me, especially if you don't have a car payment, 35 grand.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I'm going to use up all my money, yeah, for a hot second, because a month

later, you're going to have $10,000 more and a month later, you're going to have $8,000

more.

And a month later, you're going to have you follow me?

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you're not going to be out of cash for, but just for a few days, well, he's still

have 11,000.

I know you're going to live in, but I'm saying he's 57's down to 11 and that's causing emotional

distress.

Hardburn, hardburn.

Yeah.

Right.

So, but the point is, it's a temporary situation and it's the best path for you to become

wealthy.

Right.

Because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income and you don't give it

all to car companies and student loan companies, you get to keep it.

Right.

And that causes wealth building and that's what I'm going to tell you to do.

So I would be debt free either by selling the Cadillac or not immediately, even if it

caused my heart to burn and keeping, because keeping mine, your heart's not going to burn

for very long because with no payments and serious motivation called a little bit of

fear, you're going to stack that cash real fast and you'll be right back where you are

by Christmas.

And you'll be a whole 23 years old.

Wow.

You got lots of time to be smart now.

This is the Ramsey show.

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Today's question comes from Kate and Marilyn.

My daughter is a junior in high school and has no idea what she wants to do when she graduates.

My husband, I love the idea for owning her own business, but neither my husband nor I

have experience in this.

We both wish we had made different career decisions that would have given us more independence.

Where can we research with her to get a better understanding and vision for this option?

Or would you still recommend college versus real world experience?

Okay.

I'm going to put myself into this particular situation and say if this was my daughter,

what would I do?

So because she's a junior, we would begin to identify areas of interest, not come up with

the business idea.

I think this could be very paralyzing for a youngster.

It's paralyzing for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s because we know Dave from the

data that 70% of Americans want to be self-employed, but only 6% are.

So I'm speaking from data here.

So what I would do with my daughter is we would begin to identify areas of interest.

In other words, people that she wants to help solutions, she gets excited about problems

she wants to solve.

And there's an industry.

If there's a business, there's an industry.

And so we want to get broad so that she gets some real interest and begins to see some

areas of interest.

At that point, we're going to shadow.

I'm going to allow her to go have coffee, lunch with people that are in those industries

or maybe run businesses in those industries.

Do it work if she can get shadow opportunities.

All of this to begin to create a field of three or four of her most interesting options.

At that point, then we start to have the discussion.

Is college is a degree the best decision or is it getting right into the workforce and

working in an industry and giving an example to help clarify this some more.

If this were a young man, and by the way, it's not limited to young men, but let's say

she decides she wants to own a business in the trades.

At that point, then I want her shadowing folks that are working in those trades and getting

a real world experience.

The good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly, everything.

And at that point, we determine whether or not she's really interested in, and then

the path is going to be to go to work and hustle and learn on the job.

And eventually you work your way into spinning off on your own and starting your own business.

So that's a hard question to answer in such a short amount of time without back and forth.

But that would be the advice that I would give because that's what I would do.

These young people need to see it, touch it, experience it, smell it.

And then they can decide completely agree because Kate, you did not say she has this extreme

passion and apparent natural talent and bent towards X because you did not say that.

That would have led her towards a business.

The people that we've talked to that are 18 or 19 or 21 years old that have had success

and they call this show and they are really killing it and we're all kind of a gassed

at how far ahead of this curve they are running their own thing.

They almost always had a natural gift towards something, technology is not unusual for a 19-year-old

today to be something that they would go, you know, they've been screwing around riding

code, messing around building apps, and all of a sudden they built an app and took off

and around a business, okay?

Or whatever.

That's fine.

That would be Michael Dell.

That would be Bill Gates, both Quick College and Steve Jobs, all three.

All three companies were formed by college dropouts.

But they were super nerds with their eye exactly on what they wanted to do.

There was no question.

Instead you're asking a very generic thing, my husband and I always wish we were in business

so we wish our daughter would go into business but none of us have a clue.

That no, don't go in business.

Business is too hard.

That's correct.

Don't put a 18-year-old, 20-year-old out there with no education to go into business

doing that.

No, if she thinks or that in talking with her that she has got some entrepreneurial

flair and wants to do a business someday, maybe in the future, a great, you know, just

get a business degree, get a degree in finance, a degree in marketing.

You'll learn accounting, you'll learn statistics, you'll learn marketing, you'll learn strategic

thought.

I mean, you'll get some of these basic things in a good four-year degree.

That's what I have.

And I use a lot of those classes I took 40 years ago every day running Ramsey.

You know, it's a $300 million company.

It's a dead-gum, good thing.

I had a couple of accounting classes, hello, you know, rather than just trying to figure

that out with a high school accounting class.

And so it's a good thing that I understand marketing at an academic level before I actually

get neck deep in it and then try to figure out how it works out here in the real world

too.

I would do that if she thinks she's going to go that direction, combine with Ken's advice

of really going there and study, study, get, go visit these places.

We're talking about this stuff in the abstract.

Here's what we know about entrepreneurs.

Business is very hard.

It is.

And people that have never started a small business and run one have this romantic view.

Yeah.

But there's a lot of dirt under the fingernails, boys and girls.

I mean, there's a lot, it's a long hours.

It's the hardest ball show ever work for in your life.

That guy's a dead-gum slave driver.

Yeah.

And to that point, the entrepreneurs that win are driven by deep, deep desire to solve

a problem.

And they come up with a solution.

That's the business.

It's a solution and they're deeply passionate about it.

That's what keeps them going because it is, you almost need that magnetic pull or else

you're in it because in air quotes, I always wanted to work for myself.

Yeah.

And you're not going to make it.

No.

No chance.

It's too tough.

You're going to get your butt run over in the middle of the street, man.

I mean, you're just going to be rogue kill.

And it's just too, I mean, because you put up with too much, you shovel so much manure.

It's unbelievable.

There's a pony in there somewhere, but you got to shovel the manure.

I mean, it's real.

And I'm not complaining and I'm not whining.

But I have to call for a certain thing.

That's correct.

And I've had two in my life.

I mean, one on real estate and went broke and then one doing this and I could do the real

estate tomorrow and still be okay.

But obviously God called us to this right here and I'm happy with that.

But yeah, I wouldn't put up with the BS that you're, nobody will.

That's why we see business people quit all the time.

It's why we see a chef who is good at cooking and nothing else has a failed restaurant.

That's why restaurants have the highest failure rate of almost any stinking business category.

Because they think somebody thinks because they can cook or like cooking for their friends

that that makes them a restaurant owner.

Now, you got to hire and fire people all day long.

Restaurant has a 325% turnover ratio in a year.

I mean, you have to hire three people to fill that one position during that year.

So you're in the hiring business, you're in the firing business, you're in the food

sourcing inventory.

There's all this stuff that goes with running a business.

It's not cooking.

That's right.

And that's, it blows a chef's mind and they go, oh God, I wish I'd never, yeah, we always

should never.

But that is a great actual example of, do I want to run a business that serves food or

do I just want to cook food?

Two very different paths.

By the way, both honorable.

But there is a big distinction between the two and that's the key.

You know, it's even like when we're talking with entree leaders, these small businesses and

they're getting ready to promote their best salesperson to be sales manager.

It's two different skills.

That's exactly right.

You're managing salespeople's different than making sales.

So sometimes one of the worst things you can do is take your best seller and turn them

into sales manager because they don't have that skill set.

They're good at selling.

They're not good at managing salespeople.

And don't forget they may not enjoy it.

They may enjoy it.

They may have served it.

They enjoy the service of the customer.

They don't enjoy the service of leading the team of people again.

You leave two very different, like, run a beauty partner.

That's right.

Two very different job descriptions.

So you know, you need to get in there what it is.

So that's a great question, Kate.

And we'll have the team send out a lot of student assessment would be great for them.

Okay.

Because we've actually got that and that's a young person can take that and get a pretty

good idea of what a current snapshot of what a professional job description of purpose

would look like for them.

And that can be a business.

That's right.

In my very little killing that.

But make sure you understand that, you know, business is not romantic.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair wins credit union studio.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author

is my co-host today.

Chris is in Wyoming.

Hi, Chris, are you good yourself better than I deserve?

What's up?

I just wanted to give you guys a call.

I mean, kind of going through some struggles and with debt and I got fired for my job

on Wednesday.

Whoa.

That sucks.

What happened?

They gave me an evaluation and I guess I didn't score high enough and I think they fired

me because of my hearing issues because I was born partially deaf and I think they

take care of me because I shouldn't understand things.

You're going to have to speak directly into your phone so you got muffled down me there.

But you had trouble understanding things.

What was the job?

It was I was working at a casino, I was doing surveillance and they just kind of looking

at cameras and answering phones and I think I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff

that I was being told and they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues

but I kind of think that's what it was.

Well, the reason I'm asking this follow up is because this is going to inform maybe

some advice we give you going forward.

And they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not.

Did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points?

Yeah, I do.

Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey.

You have to do that.

It's muffled.

Yeah.

So yeah, I do agree that I was having a hard time understanding things that they were the

cast that they were giving me.

Okay.

Okay.

And so your biggest crisis is your unemployed?

Yeah.

I'm unemployed and my life can't work because she's got a, she told her a femur back when

she was in a military and she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long and so

it's just, it's been hard to try and take care of her, myself and our three kids and

are you aware of, are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing

is not going to be that big of an issue?

Um, for like 15, 15 to 20 plus years, I was doing like physical work, like warehouse

type work has really been involved a whole lot of, I mean, I thought to hear things but

it wasn't as bad as, you know, having to like, I wouldn't have to like answer phones

or any type of thing like that.

Right.

So I've been trying to get back into that again and it's just been with the winter hours

coming up.

It's just kind of been more harder to get into that again.

How did you lose your hearing?

Um, I was born with, I was born with, um, it was genetic.

Okay.

Do you have hearing aids?

Um, yeah, I do.

Um, I went through the Wyoming workforce and, but they're not working.

They were, um, they, they, they've been a big help, um, but even, even after I got

the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time, um, so I try to do everything

to the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing.

Well, the casino is a very noisy place and even with hearing aids, that can be a problem.

Well, I'm, I'm worried about your location.

It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where

you are.

Is that what I'm understanding?

Well, um, I mean, I'm, I'm in here in Cheyenne and they usually when winter starts coming

up, that's when they kind of a lot of places, you know, cut back hours and because they're

fully staffed and it's harder to get into places and, um, sure.

How much money do you need to make?

What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys?

Just your basic expenses.

What do you need?

Um, I mean, my, my rent, um, I mean, it's my rent, my electric, um, I don't have to worry

about like gas or anything.

Give me a number.

Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

Uh, and then I'll honestly, I mean, I, I honestly don't know.

Um, can't really figure out a number, um, usually about like, I think like 3,000 a

month.

That's usually where all my bills are at, um, because I got two vehicles and then, you

know, my kids taking care of the expenses for them to and food and all that stuff and,

um, do you have two car payments?

Yeah, I have two car payments.

I have, um, I have a, uh, my truck payment, which is $740 and then my car payment is 360.

I don't know what in the world plan at your own that you think you can afford a $700

truck payment.

Uh, when I was working with Walmart, um, I, I got five from them this same year in January.

Why did you get fired from Walmart?

Um, because of my attendance, because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then

with my mental health, um, I, uh, I was leaving a lot and I was calling off a lot because

my mental health and I ended up after I got fired, I ended up with a mental health problem.

Um, well, when my daughter was born, she, um, no, your mental health problem.

What's the nature of your mental health problem?

Um, I'm depressed.

Okay.

And is your wife on military disability?

Um, no, she, she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years.

And are you on any kind of disability?

Uh, no, I'm not.

I, I try to get on social security and they, they, they denied me because I, I, I finally

got the job with the casino and they denied me because, uh, yeah, I was, um, making too

much.

That would, that would be true.

That would be obvious.

Yeah.

Okay.

So what we got to do is we got to figure out a career where you can make some basic

income and son.

You got to show your truck a $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the

last few minutes is insanity.

It's nuts.

So you got to get rid of the $780 payment and you guys could go down to one car for that

matter.

Your wife doesn't work.

She's on two kings.

I don't think she needs to be driving a lot.

So, um, you got it and then you're going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other

stuff until you can land something as stable.

Any good suggestions, Ken?

Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because

you're going to have to get back into that space and what I heard was a lot of limitations.

But right now you can't accept limitations.

I understand depression is real.

That's a real thing.

I get it.

But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire

household is relying on.

So, yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work.

I'm showing up and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, hey, here's

what happened to me.

I'm going to power through it.

I mean, anything and everything right now, two and three jobs.

You have got to get enough money that may be seen.

Not maybe.

I'd see a therapist.

I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help.

Because a professional can help you with some tools to power through the depression.

And this is desperation time.

Yeah, I'm sorry, you're facing all this.

Those are, I'm 100% sure we've got to get your income up.

And I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck.

And when you do those two things, you create a sustainable situation mathematically.

And that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got.

So, keep it up though.

Keep pushing, keep fighting.

You can do it.

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Thank you for joining us America.

We're glad you are here.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality,

number one best selling author of the book, pay check to purpose and his new work,

discovering or finding the work you're wired to do, which comes with the get clear assessment

to help you figure out what your strengths are and where you need to head with your whole

career and money making endeavors. It's a great thing.

It's just hit a bunch of bestseller things this week as a matter of fact.

Very cool.

Hey, the average interest rate for a 15 year mortgage drop from 6 to 5.6 this week.

And the average of this week, I'm sorry, I fell to 5.15.

The lowest we've seen since February of 23.

So, almost 20 some odd months now since we've seen an interest rate that low.

So, if you purchase a $423,000 house with a 20% down payment on a 15 year,

the interest rate change is the difference now of about $3,000, $4,000 a year is what it would save

you. So, yeah, if you're financially ready, if you're out of debt, you have your down payment

ready and you have your emergency fund in place. We're huge on the real estate market.

And this is the time to do it. It's also a great time to sell because there's a shortage of

inventory. So, it's kind of a weird market in that way, but you need a good, strong real estate

agent in your corner that knows what the flip they're doing, high protein, high octane.

So, go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent and you can find the real estate agent that's Ramsey

trusted that we have vetted in your area. So, there we go. Open phones at AAA, 825-225, Nicole

is in Jacksonville. Hi, Nicole, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so, me and my husband are about to bring a baby into the world in January next year.

Thank you. He's had this credit card with his mom that he's been having for like the past,

basically a year and a half, but she basically has like joint ownership of his like account

and stuff like that because he's in the military. So, like, when he first got in, he was like,

oh, well, you're going to oversee everything. Just make sure like my deals are paid and stuff like

that, but she opened up her credit card and she's kind of like $14,000 spent in and every time I

try to talk to him about it, like, hey, like what's going on with this? Like, you know, is she going

to take care of it? Now that we're bringing a baby into the world, I'm concerned. And like,

every time she'll ask him about it, like, she completely, like, it's angry or upset and cries

because she has blueprints and she has like a lot of medical bills too. So,

I'm not really sure how to live. Have you been married? We've been married for a year and a half.

And what does he make? What does he make? And what do you make?

Um, he makes like $55,000 in here. And me, I'm a student. So, I'm still in school and everything.

So, I work part time. How old are you? I'm 22. And he's 23.

And here's the thing. Stop. You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem.

Okay. So, hubby has got to decide now that he, there's a new woman in his life that's not his mother.

When you, in the old days, people would say things like, when you get married, you leave your parents

and cleave to your spouse, leaving cleave, we called it. Okay. And there's a boundary drawn.

There's a new household has been established a year and a half ago. Now it has a baby entering it.

Okay. And we're not going to blame any of this on the baby. We're going to blame all of this on

your husband. The day you all got married, it was his job as a man to separate all of his accounts

from his mother. This is very boyish, not manly behavior.

That he's engaging in. And so, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to sit down very calmly.

And I don't care if his mom cries. I'm sorry. And I don't care. I'm sorry she has lupus. But the

reason she's crying is because she's ashamed. And because it works on her little boy.

So, we're going to have to help your husband run down to Walmart and pick up a backbone. They're on

aisle three. And then he's going to walk in there very calmly and gently and say, mom,

now that I'm married and I have my own family, we're not going to have any more joint accounts.

So, everything is being closed today. And you're going to reopen your own accounts, mom.

And you need to pay this $14,000 you ran up on this credit card.

Okay. And if she doesn't, you'll have to because it's got your husband's name on it.

This is a mistake that he has made. And it may cost him and you $14,000 because I got

a feeling this woman's not going to pay this. Don't you? And you're not to be involved at all.

You'll become the wickets. You'll become the wicked daughter-in-law. It'll be all your fault

because this woman is a travel agent for guilt trips. Okay. Yeah, every time I try to like

talk to her about it. Nope. Nope. Nope. No, don't you ever say a word to her about this again.

But your husband, he needs to throw his shoulders back and become a man.

Today. Today. This is weak and fearful behavior. He needs to become courageous, bold, gentle

with his mom. There's no reason to be mean to her. He's the one entered into this arrangement.

But it does need to be very thorough and complete immediately. It's absurd that a man that is

married and has a baby on the way has joint accounts with his mommy. That's ridiculous. Okay.

You can play this back for him if you want. He needs to square. Yeah, he needs to square his

shoulders and walk in there. I don't want him to be unkind to his mom. But it was his duty,

the week before you got married to separate everything. When my kids were getting married,

we sat down two weeks before. I transferred every single mutual fund that was theirs,

every single checking account or piece of savings that was theirs, completely out of our name.

If they went and did something stupid with it the next day, that's on them.

Because they're now what's known as grown up adults. It's not my job anymore to manage them.

They are now free agents. They're grown people. You don't even have to get married to do that,

but that happened to be the one we made sure that everything was final because I did not want to

be interfering with my daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, just like Nicole's situation. This is happening

more and more. Yeah. The emotional and biblical coordinates to be cut. This is the reason why

is because the lupus, she's my mom, she did this, she's done that, and you cannot think rationally

when you were thinking emotionally. You cannot have a rational thought at the same time that you

have an emotional thought. This tie together, he's never going to act rational until the clear cut

has happened. I really would recommend that he watched this so that he realizes you're not the

bad person. It's like a spiritual gift I have. I'm fine with that. Yeah, cut the cord. There's

entire Reddit pages devoted to doing that. You can comment sections of everything. By the way,

this is only going to get worse. I want the young man here every day. This is going to get worse.

This every day this goes on and we're not even going to blame this on the baby. Oh no, not the baby.

This is something should have been done before there was a baby. Well, I tell you, it's the big baby.

I'm blaming it on the big baby. Not the baby in the womb, the baby who has yet to mature.

And by the way, mom enabled this. So there's enough blame to go on. No, she didn't

able it. She manipulated it. She wanted it. She likes this. He was a mom's boy to go to

the military and say, mom, pay my bills. Yep. Yep. I'm not blaming that all on him. Yep.

We got to let these kids fly, folks. Yeah. Kick them out of the nest. That's what the birds do.

That's um, this is a national problem to your point. We're seeing a real problem.

It's a real problem. This is the Ramsey show.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys. I started my company on a car table myself.

So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention

your customers. And when you're the one signing the paycheck, you can't afford to fly blind.

But I'll be honest early on one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets

that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team

just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago. And we've never looked back.

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slash Ramsey. That's NetSuite.com slash Ramsey.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America.

Denel is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Denel. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

I have a little dilemma that we're trying to figure out what we need to do. I have a 2012

Hyundai Elantre and it's got over 200,000 miles on it. In around the end of October,

I was backing up out of a parking spot and a guy behind me backed into my car.

And it didn't ruin my car, so I couldn't drive it, but his insurance totalled my car.

Great. So now, yeah.

I mean, you're driving a hoopty and you're getting a check.

Yeah, I can get a check for it. For sure, they will, I can get 37, 45 and keep it, and

they'll have to get a salvage tile. No, you don't want it. 45, 38.

No, you take the full pay, give them the car, go get your car.

Okay. If the car was in good shape, if the car was in good shape and it's 200,000

mile 2012, Elantre, what's it actually worth? Have you looked it up?

It's probably under five.

Well, that's what they're giving you is under five.

Yeah, yeah. I want you to make sure that what they're giving you is the actual value of the car.

Well, the 45 is what they would give me, and that's what I'm going to have.

No, honey, they're going to give you the value of the car. It's the law.

They may not have understood that yet. You may have to help them with that.

Yeah.

But they're supposed to give you the value of the car. They got to or your car up.

So, um, didn't take much to total this car, but it's okay. Cool. I'm glad.

So, I want you guys. You said we are. You married?

Uh-huh. Okay. You guys jump on the computer before you accept the offer and find out from

Kelly Blue book what the what the retail value of that car is and enter it with 200,000 miles,

no damage. And, um, you know, you're the attributes of that car, the accessories it has and so forth.

And then look on stuff like trader.com and find something that are for sale that looks

similar in mileage. And if you find out that car is worth 5,200, you call this insurance company

up and say, uh, you need to pay me 5,200. And here's the appraisal from Kelly Blue book. And here's

three cars on total on trader.com that look the same. And they all these things say 5,200, not 4,500.

And the guy will go, okay. Who's the insurance company? They're they're river mutual. What?

Say it again. Say it again. Bear river. That's the actual insurance company.

Not they wrote the policy. Do what? Bear river mutual. Okay. I just don't know that one. Okay.

All right. Well, I, uh, because sometimes I know the reputation. Like if it's state farm,

you can pretty much sure, be assured they're trying to screw you. Okay. Yeah. That's like their

modus operandi. Okay. Jay, I've been hit by state farmers twice and it's been a problem both

times. Okay. They're just a pain in the butt. And see, it cost, it cost them a lot because I just

said that. So, um, but anyway, the, uh, anyway, so yeah, just, just verify that the actual cost,

value of the car, I'm not trying to rip them off. I want them to pay you what you're due. That's

all. Yeah. It's an honest transaction. I'm sorry. I mean, with a ding in the car,

no, darling, there wasn't a ding in the car before he hit it. Oh, okay. Before he hit it,

what was the car worth? Yeah. Okay. Because that's what they owe you. That's the market value of the

car. Because you got to take the cash and go buy that exact car on trader.com from somebody else.

That's what you're going to have to pay for it. Yeah. That's what they should give you. They should

replace your car. No, you don't keep your car. Okay. No, the question for you then is this car

was almost dead before this guy put a bullet in it. Let it die. Yeah. It's true. It's true. Okay.

So I have, I have listened to you for years and I just get sick to my stomach now thinking about

even taking a loan out on a vehicle. Well, don't buy a $5,000 car. I need to put aside

pardon? Buy a $5,000 car. Okay. You have $5,000. You were driving a $5,000 car before this

happened. So it was doing it was perfectly good with your life or good enough for now.

How much money do you have set aside and is that earmark for something else or was it for a car

replacement? It's to go toward the car replacement. How much you got? Seven thousand. Seven thousand?

So that's your car fund. Yeah. Okay. Well, then you can buy a $12,000 car. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. All right. I just, my husband wants me to have a car that he knows we can depend on

and he's like, where was this husband before you got hit in the parking lot? He was sitting next to me.

I know. I know. But you see what I'm saying. He wasn't, he wasn't whining about you having

something that would dependable when you're driving this $5,000 hoopty. You were saving up to get

out of the hoopty. Now you got, you sold the hoopty. You just sold it to an insurance company.

Yeah. You're right. A lot of $12,000 cars that you can rely on. Excellent vehicles. A lot.

Excellent. A car that'll do any, it'll do double back flips. You can get great cars for 12 grand.

Yes. The best value in the market is 10 to 15,000. It's the best buy in the car market. You get

the most bang for your buck. And it's a great, you can get a great vehicle for that. That'll last

you for a long time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. There's no reason for you to go in debt,

huh? It's just it was an event. Thank God. Nobody was hurt. It's a little parking lot ding. And it's

just sad that your car, the parking lot ding, I never heard anybody get totaled in the park and the

croaker parking lot. But there you go. So bump. You're total. I mean, I was going to say that was

quite a incident. He must have been on his way to the game with the wings and the chips and salsa.

These are something going on. Amber's in Spokane. Amber, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Thank you. I just have a quick question, actually two part questions. I have an 18-year-old

son. He's still in high school. He will be 19 next year graduating. And he is planning on opening

his own business doing what with his landscaping with his own money. Good. He's very smart

as money. He doesn't have any debt. He won't get a credit card. He only uses what he has.

But I was trying to explain to him the other day that he can do it with a zero credit score.

And he and I I am also confused a little bit too. But I know it's possible. So he doesn't want to

take down any loans. He doesn't need a credit score. So why do you need a credit score?

I think he's more worried about if something comes up where he has to borrow money.

borrow to yeah I have to get a bigger machine or... Well that already is going to come up.

A hundred percent of the people that buy machines buy too many of them.

Well he has a plan to buy used and cash. And if something comes up he'll buy used and cash.

He does not need a credit score. Do not use debt as your backstop in case of emergencies in

business because you will live in debt the rest of your life. Because a hundred percent of

there's three rules in business. It takes twice as long as you think. It costs twice as much as

you think and you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business. The nice thing is

is that he understands all three of those rules and he doesn't need a credit score.

Okay the other question is I have is how I've been trying to get him to listen to

your show or read your book or and he's 18. I'll give him not because he's still in that mentality

stage where he's 18. And is there something I don't want to push too hard so that he doesn't

do it altogether but is there I know you have books and programs and stuff like that but I've

already bought those and he he wasn't interested in it. Is it something that may come along later on

when he's going through? I guess. I mean the only thing I can tell you is the only good I've

ever been on to do with my kids once they turned 18 and beyond was I tried to try my best to not

use my dad voice because once I do they quit listening. I have to use my persuasive uncle voice

like I'm their uncle that loves them and has no power because I am that person that has no

power once they're 18. So you've been using your mom voice? You need to listen today. That won't

work. He won't he turned that off immediately. Use your friend voice and maybe he'll pick it up

probably not but maybe he will. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Hey guys, we could use your help. It helps us a bunch and we know you're doing it because we're

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difference. Also share the show. Some of these things have a share button where you can share it.

Maybe you're just listening on talk radio. Tell people where you're listening.

I'm in Phoenix. I listen on KTAR. And the Ramsey shows on there and it's changed my life. Tell people.

Tell people when you read a good book. Tell people when you see a good movie. Tell people

when you hear a good show, a good podcast, a good YouTube show, whatever it is. Spread the word.

And we know you're doing it because our numbers are up astronomically and we appreciate it.

But when you do all that, it also affects all of those platforms algorithms and the way people are

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even know they're searching for it. And so it changes everything when you do that. Guys, it's

a big deal. Thank you very, very much. Even the five-star reviews, those help a bunch too. Thank you.

William is with us in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, William. How are you?

Hey, guys. I'm great. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it.

Sure. How can we help?

So I'm in the military and I just got married two months ago.

Congratulations.

You all about four months ago. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I discovered you guys four months ago.

Life has been excellent. So we're in the process of moving and we're paying off my wife's

student loan debt about $28,000. And we figured out we're going to be moving to Hawaii in March.

Looking at house and prices over there, it's going to be pretty insane at least to do like first

months rent, security deposit, everything like that. So I'm looking to get advice on how to approach

that, taking a pause at Baby Step 2 and how to move forward there.

It's not really a pause on Baby Step 2. It's just a pause on the whole thing because you've got to

something staring at this thing in front of you and you've got to deal with it, right?

And so what I would do is put a detailed number on the March move,

stop everything and pile up that number because it's coming.

It's not if it's just it's not there's no question about the probability of it.

And so and then when you've got that number, then push play, set that number to the side,

push play and then start working it again. Okay. Yeah, that's exactly how you do it. So

so which branch are you in? I'm in the Navy. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for your service, sir. We

appreciate you guys. Well, I appreciate you guys. And how old are you two?

I'm 28. My wife is 26. Perfect. Yeah. Okay. Have you been through financial

peace university yet? No, sir. We've been just kind of listening to the show and

and making a go at it. Okay. We're going to give that to you as a belated wedding gift.

Two months into my wedding. I wish two months into my marriage. I wish somebody had shown me

this stuff. My life would have been completely different in a good way. So yeah. And I got a

pretty good life. But yeah. So anyway, hang on. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you

signed up for financial peace university because Hawaii is expensive. Yeah. You need to

in that's a truth. Dave, I got to ask a quick question because this is, I'm curious

you know, your take on this. If I was in this situation and he's in the military. So he may not

be able to do anything outside of his military service. But if his wife is not working outside

of the home or even she is, I'm the kind of guy that if I were in that position in the baby

step, certainly baby step two. And I had an expense like that that was coming and we knew it was

going to be a chunk. So let's just say it was I'll make this up for example purpose. I had to come

up with $5,000 for something in March. I'm the kind of guy that's going to go crazy trying to

make extra money and fund that $5,000 above and beyond what I'm doing out of my normal budget

towards the baby steps. Do you, does that bother you? That's an okay thing. The thing is it works

exactly the same way if you just push stop. That's true. And then go crazy. Right.

You pile it up that much faster. But I'm the guy who's losing the progress. Put, put, put, you know,

but if you've piled up twice as fast. Right. Because you're not staying in play mode.

You push pause. Then you, boom, you're back at it and mathematically you'll end up in about

the same place. And, but you're right, it does, it does light a fire under you to get it done

quick. Jack is in Los Angeles. Hey, Jack, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? My fiance and I are both 25 years old. We're getting married

two months from now. And we're of course looking to combine finances. Not sure the best way to go

about it on a couple fronts. One, should we be waiting until we're married? Two, we both do have

credit cards. We both as of last month are debt free. But we're wondering, should we be keeping

them? Should we get rid of them? We're worried about, you know, canceling them, impacting our

credit scores as we looked at by a house. So hoping to get your advice on all of that.

Okay. You don't combine finances until you're married. Okay. And after you're married,

then yes, you combine them because the preacher will say, and now you are one. And that's what that

means. Until then you've got all kinds of issues when you combine things that can happen.

If something terrible happened before the wedding, you get yourself into a mess. So we just wait

until then. As far as keeping your credit cards open, the best thing I know to do is cut them up

and close everything and have zero balances. And if you have no active accounts going, it takes

about six months for your credit score to just disappear. What you don't want is a medium credit

score. You either want a very high one or a no credit score when you're going for a mortgage.

No credit score, such as for manual underwriting with someone like Churchill Mortgage, the team

that we've endorsed for mortgages for almost 30 years now. And they can help you do a manual

underwriting with zero credit score. But you don't want, you don't want to be in no man's land

in the middle. And that's what will happen if you keep a bunch of stuff open with zero balances.

Because the FICO algorithm is built to where it wants you to be in debt.

To drive an 800 credit score, you have to get in debt and stay in debt and pay it regularly.

I pay my credit cards off every month or I don't use them at all and they're open,

we'll damage your credit score. So we'll closing them. We'll damage your credit score,

but closing them is the path to get to zero. And that's where I would recommend you go is to zero.

And it's okay to not buy a house immediately. By the way, it's going to take about six months for

this to happen. So six months, six months from the time you're married, you both close all accounts

of zero balances, zero activity of any kind on anything that's reporting to FICO, you will disappear,

you'll fall off the grid, which is what you're trying to do here. And that's the goal.

And we recommend in general, young couples getting married that they wait a year to buy a house.

It takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

You got to get to know each other. And you've been married 20 minutes, you're going to buy a

different house than you will when you've been married 20 months. It's a different property.

You're going to sign up for. And so you just take your time. You got to rest your life. You're

going to be okay. I don't want you to take 10 years, but you can take a few months. And during that

time, you had the opportunity for the credit score to go away. Yeah, I'm thinking back to sensation.

I got married. And this whole question, we were walking through Primordal Counseling,

both of our dads were pastors. And so they were really driving home the point that you made.

Keep everything separate. Of course. But it was us trying to clean everything up. And Stacey

had some debt. And we worked really hard to help her. And she went after it. And to enter into

marriage with, and we had a little debt. I had a little bit of student loans left. And she had

a little bit left. And then we knocked them out in that first couple of years. But it was such a

big deal for us to in the first 12 months, just learn how each other handled money.

You know what I mean? How you handle life. There's that too. But it's like to make a big purchase

decision like that and strap yourself into a mortgage like that without kind of, as you said,

experiencing marriage in the way we viewed money. That first 12 months for us was really eye-opening.

And we had to learn how to get on the same page. Yeah. It was from how I've shared and she

realized she'd made a huge mistake. Well, Stacey as well. Poor woman.

They have the patients at Joe thought she married Sir Gala Head turns out it was Goober.

Right. I resemble that. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio with Ken

Kalman, number one bestselling author and host of the front row seat. As my co-host, I'm Dave Ramsey.

Ryan is in Nashville. Hi, Ryan. How are you? Good. How you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I had a question about retirement in 401K. I am new into a Roth IRA. I'll be 50 next year.

And I can only contribute so much to that. And on my wife's 401K, we're maxing out what she can do

a year on that. And then there's a roll over IRA from previous employment that we have. So we've got

the three things working for us, but I can only contribute, you know, just that 7,000 a year.

And I would just like to see what you think other ways for me to try to make my money work for me

down the road so I can have more retirement. Yeah, you can bump it to 8,000 at 50. And you can also

do a spousal Roth for your wife as well. Are you doing both of those? So we can do that if she

has a 401K plus she has a roll over IRA. Yes. I can go with that call. I'm sorry.

Just a Roth IRA. She can just do a Roth. You can do one too. She can do a Roth.

Yep. Even if she's not working, she could do one, but she's working in this case. So make sure

it's her 401K a Roth. No, I don't believe well, yes, it is. It is. Okay. All right. Because if

they match, the person they match is not Roth, but make sure it's not traditional, is the roll over

over is a roll over IRA? Has it been converted to Roth? I don't think it's been converted. It's

just a roll over. Okay. If you convert it, it'll make the taxes on the amount come to what's the

amount in there? The amount in the roll over currently is probably about 75. Okay. So you would have

about 15 or $20,000 in taxes, probably 15. So if you get an extra 15 to invest in retirement,

I would roll that to a Roth and pay that 15 in taxes and call that investing. Here's why.

Because from this point forward, it will grow completely tax-free.

Okay. So that paying those taxes now is like investing into a retirement. So if you're looking

for more money to throw at something, the first thing is you bump them to A, you do a spouse over,

a spouse will make sure her 401K is Roth if it's not already. And then take that roll over and

talk to your tax person and figure out what your taxes are going to be before you do it.

Make sure you've got that much in extra cash to pay your tax bill next year when the April

rolls around because you're going to have an extra whatever it is, 15 grand or so on that.

And then roll that 75 because that 75 in seven years will be 150 and in seven more years will be

300 and in seven more years will be 600 and all of that will be tax-free if it's Roth. It won't be

the way it is now. It's going to grow in all of it be taxable at ordinary income. So you do want

to move that at some point. But if you're looking for extra ways to put money towards retirement,

that's the ways you can do it. Matt's in Tennessee. Hey, Matt, how are you?

I'm doing great, guys. I'm so excited to be on the show. Thanks for taking my call.

My pleasure. How can we help?

Well, my wife and I have been weighing the decision of making her a stay-at-home mom

and I just want to make sure we're not letting a mentioned blind us from making a bad decision

financially. Cool. Good for you. I mean, baby, she got it. We have two. They're both under three.

Awesome. You got your hands full. Never a quiet moment at your house. Yes. Okay. So, yeah,

it's great. I just kept the grand babies last week that Sharon and I did their that age and so,

I know what I'm talking about for just a moment there. But I can hand them back when they're broke.

You can't. So this one's got something wrong with it. You'll need to work on this one. But the,

anyway, what does she make? She makes 95 gross. What do you make? I'll be on track to make

over 150. Okay. Cool. If you want to be really, really sure, an easy way to do it would be just live

on your check for three months and bankers. Yes, sir. We've been doing that. Oh, you have. Okay.

I mean, my daycare, if you got daycare, you could take daycare out of hers, but because you won't have

that. Yes. But if you just practice, so you've already proven to yourself, you can do this.

Yes. I guess so, but I mean, I guess we're just a little nervous to take that leap of faith.

It's not a leap of faith. You've proven it. It's a step. It's a step. It's not a leap.

Yes, sir. How much more to do? The leap is I have no idea and I've never even looked at the math.

That's a leap. This is true. Yeah. So you're done great, man. So what does she do for living?

She's a nurse auditor for humanity. Is she a nurse by trade? Yes, sir. Okay. I think Ken and I would

both recommend that she do enough of something to keep her shirts alive while she's at home. Yep.

We both talked about that as well. We want to keep her her license up to date. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And you'll be amazed at what she could pick up as just little side things here

there that make a lot of money. She's got like the perfect career to do what you're talking about

doing. I couldn't agree more. I mean, she can pick up. If you all got in a pinch or something,

she can pick up weekends in the ER and make almost as much as she's making now.

This is true. Be very uncomfortable and I'm not recommending doing that and you don't have to

because you're already proven we can live on your income. So yeah, just do it, man. Do it.

This is why you manage money to get to live the life you want to live and you guys want her

to be home and she's doing nothing wrong and everything right by doing that.

Yeah, my question is is Dave was walking you through this. You just you still seem to ensure

is that because you're worried about some big giant expense coming out of nowhere from the giant

in the sky or you are too tight on just your income. No, that's a good question. We're not too tight

on my income. What makes me nervous can is I started this job in June and it's a phenomenal job.

It provides very well. It's given us a great financial bump. I guess it just makes me nervous to

so rely on my job that had been being in it for such a short period of time. Yeah, what do you do?

I'm in medical sales. Oh, dude. Yeah, you land another one. You can land backwards on your head and

make 150 in that in the next job. These people lose their minds. You can get another job doing this.

Once you've done medical sales, you're so qualified as unbelievable. You both have selected excellent

careers. You'll be making 250 in three years, dude. Yes, sir. If everything goes well and I stay

on plan, I should I should track to make over 200. Yeah, absolutely. Well, the good thing coming

out of a decision like this is you're going to be extra motivated. And I appreciate you sharing

the fear and I didn't need to know. I wanted you to hear yourself say it. And so what you need to

do now is go, okay, if this makes me a little nervous, is there any evidence that it should make

me nervous? And in this case, the answer is no. And then today's point, you can crush it, man.

So go crush it. Yeah. And you're still the thing. You guys can decide, okay, we're going to stack up

a little extra money. Oh, just a little rest easy money. No, and we're not saying you have to do

that, but you can to kind of ease yourself into this. You guys get to decide how and when you make

this transition. And everything goes sideways. Yeah, she walks down there and picks up a nurse

and job. I mean, if you lost your job, she picks up a nurse and job, y'all can eat. It's okay.

It's not, it's not like it's permanent. You keep those certs though. Keep, keep everything up today.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. He's the number one best selling author and

host of the Ken Coleman show on the Ramsey Networks. And one of his best selling books is find the work

you're wired to do. It's his latest bestseller. It included in it is the Get Clear career assessment

that we've sold almost 100,000 of and it goes with the book for free. So not only do you get the

assessment, you get the book to teach you how to read the assessment and what to take away from it.

So be sure and pick that up at RamseySolutions.com. Jack is in New York. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Well, thank you very much, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm at the age now, mid-50s, to where you want to get to be conservative with your

investments. However, for retirement. However, I don't have a retirement because of life choices

that I've had to make throughout the years. So now that I'm finally in a financial position,

to where I can start making investments, I'm afraid to make liberal investments, to make money,

to actually have a retirement because I'm at that age to be conservative. So I really don't

know what to do. And I'm going to help you with this. You're not at the age to be conservative.

I don't know who told you that, but they were wrong. Well, I don't have that many years left

on this. You have plenty of time. You're only 50. I'm not conservatively investing and I'm 63.

So I'm investing in good, gross stock mutual funds that are growing like a weed. And you need

to be your broke. Well, I'm not broke, but I had no retirement whatsoever. I mean, how much do

you have? How much money do you have? I got about 20K in savings. Okay. Well, you're broke.

I mean, for 50 years old going into retirement, that would scare the crap out of me.

You need like 250, right? Moving on. And so I'm not trying to scare you. I don't want you to panic,

but you do need to get with it. As you said, and you recognize that, that's why you called. So

what I would do is this, the thing I have figured out is there's two things that we are afraid of.

And fear is a positive thing in these situations. And number one thing we're afraid of is something

we don't understand. So the first time you set behind the wheel of a car, I distinctly remember

I was 12 and dad said, move the car around back. I left no gravel in the driveway. No one told me

you weren't supposed to press down on the accelerator all the way to the floor. And so I didn't because

I didn't know what I was doing. So driving a car, I didn't know how to do it. I was afraid. And

I was really afraid after I screwed it up, right? But now we all have been driving cars for decades

and we drive and don't think anything about it. It's like muscle memory. So you learn how to do

the thing and you're no longer afraid of it. The second thing you're afraid of is something that

will legitimately hurt you standing in the middle of the interstate. You should be afraid.

An 18 wheeler is going to turn you into a bug, right? And so yeah, that's a bear standing in front

of you. You should be afraid. That's a good thing. But the other is just you're afraid because you

don't know how. And that's the investing thing. That's wisdom. But it's something that can be

overcome. I don't want to overcome my fear of bears. They will eat you. But I do want to overcome

my fear of things. I don't understand that can help me. And the fear goes away with knowledge. So

sit down with a good smart vester pro. Click that at Ramsey Solutions and let them let the guys

that we recommend begin to teach you and gradually start to understand. And as your confidence builds,

then you increase, you'll easily increase the amount of money you start pouring into

retirement type investments. And you don't have to worry about the whole idea of conservative

versus whatever bull crap, something you read on the internet, right? Yeah. I could see the

understand that. That's absolutely true. Ken, yeah, I was just going to echo that that right now,

you have no idea what you don't know. And it just paralyzes you. And so I think the quicker you

can get seated seated with smart vester pros, interview several. Figure out the one that you've

got the best chemistry with. There's that teacher relationship going on. And you can make up some

ground pretty quick. But you've got to be aggressive. And I would say Dave, beyond just the mindset of

aggressive, I'd be doing some things if I were him to make some extra money and try to catch up.

Where can I make an additional 10 grand, an additional 15 to 25. So you can play catch up and

start stacking some money when you begin to see that momentum. By the way, that that gets really,

really exciting. And you start doing more of that. A lot of people think that they got to have a

side hustle just to pay off debt or just pay the bills. In this case, when someone is that age,

to the extent that you can do some extra work and leverage your skill and experience to

pour more money on top of the little fire, the bigger that fire gets. That would be a direct

challenge in this situation for him. That's very good. And that reminds me, you know, when they're

walking around out there in the world, people say these sayings that are just stupid.

Right. You know, here's one of them. What you don't know won't hurt you.

What you don't know will kill you. That's a dumb butt saying, you know, lack of knowledge.

It knocked you out, man. I mean, that's a reddit. You know, like you can just stick your head in

the sand. And I'm not talking about Jack here. I'm just saying in general. But yeah, it's a big

deal to know new things all the time. Angela's with us in Knoxville. Hi, Angela. How are you?

Hey, Dave. I'm doing all right. How are you better than I deserve? What's up?

Awesome. So today is actually my first day. Happy birthday.

Thank you. I like it a tip in 42. Oh, okay. Just a pop. Yeah. Yeah. So I actually met you in

Orlando a couple years ago. In fact, got one of your events. So I'm trying to get back on track.

Dave, I never did the baby steps. I purchased a few at that event. Never did anything with it.

Like a dummy. And so basically, I'm in $30,000 in debt. About 18 of that is my car.

And another seven in credit card debt. And I owe five to a family member. And so my question is,

I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about once I get to baby step two, because I'm going

to be finishing baby step one next month. And then in August, I'm going to start tackling the debt.

My car has about 250,000 miles. And I use my car right now to make a living.

And so my concern is if I start tackling the smaller debt spurs. And then my car breaks down on

and the transmission goes out or something. I can't fix it. And I, you know, I don't know if I

should be saving more in my step one for that or that's kind of where I'm stuck. And I just

wanted your input. You owe $18,000 on it. Yeah, I had a paid for four runner a few years ago.

And then I started a new job. You owe $18,000 on a car. You have 250,000 miles on.

Yeah, because I was a career. I ran the miles up on that thing. I was a career for the last two,

three years since I bought the car. It's a racked it up. Okay. What kind of car is it?

It's a 19 Dodge Charger. Okay. A six-cylinder. It's a cheaper one. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Okay. No, I mean, we're worrying about something that hasn't happened yet. It's a reasonable

thing to worry about because those things may occur. But I'm not going to change the game plan here.

I'm going to, you know, if you have a problem, you may have to stop your baby steps and address

the problem. But until you do, you were already broke before you started this. And now you're just

running broke, trying to do actually do some good and climb out, right? Yeah. I mean, so yeah, cut

up your credit cards and let's start attacking them with a vengeance and work as many hours as you

can. And as Ken says, always, you know, get an extra job. Let's do six things and do that written

budget in detail and live on nothing and work all the time. And let's begin to get this cleaned

up because this is a scary place to be for you. It definitely is. I'm actually, I had,

I moved to Knoxville from Florida back in just this last December. And I had a pretty decent job.

And it paid too great. But it was, it was all right. It was my first job if I'd moved here.

It got laid off like after three months. It didn't need me anymore. And so I've been door-dashing,

like 72 hours a week ever since. And I have another, another job that I started, but they're

just trickling me in with work. That's not, I'm not full time with it yet. Once I do, that should

be about 72 a year. Well, that'd be huge. That changes everything, Ken. Yeah, I'd love to see

your really hustle through this quickly because that car is going to be a problem pretty soon. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's, but I don't want to stop doing it. No, no, no, and Lou, if something hadn't happened,

I'd let that be that extra motivator. Yeah, exactly. This is the Ramsey show.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution to get different results.

You have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a

game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com,

slash start, answer some questions. And we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck.

Take control of your money starting today. Go with RamseySolutions.com slash start.

Have you all noticed that real estate is weird right now? It's weird out there.

I mean, it's strange. If you're going to buy a house right now, if you're going to sell a house

right now, you don't really need to be screwing around with this unless you're dealing with

somebody really knows what they're doing because it's a strange time. And you need someone to help

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and the right kind of marketing advice from a pro who's actually done it before. Not your

and uncle Henry who got his license three weeks ago and demands that you list your largest asset

with him. That's dumb. Don't do that. No, no, we're going to get like somebody that sells 30 to

300 houses a year. That's somebody who actually stays in the business when things are good and when

things are bad, they know the market, they know how to navigate weirdness and they can help you.

We vet all of the agents that we put in the Ramsey Trusted program. We coach them. They're lined

up with what we teach here. They understand what you're listening to this show that you're

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Just go to Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agent. A meat is with us in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Hi, a meat. How are you? I'm great. How are you guys better than we deserve. What's up? So I

want to story here, but I was my background and technical background is engineering and science.

I did that for a few years. I went to school for it and everything, but

love basketball ended up switching careers and I ended up coaching basketball first at the

collegiate level division one and then into the NBA for the last two years. The NBA is moving

more and more towards hiring players. Even with 10 years experience in coaching those levels,

I'm having a hard time finding jobs that are paying me enough to get by. I'm married.

I don't have any kids, but we don't have my wife makes exponentially more money than me.

So financially, we're okay. We have no dad, nothing. Homes paid off cars and paid off.

So we're good there, but I'm thinking now transitioning into a different career.

I have no idea what to do. I did so out of touch with what my degrees are in that I don't know

if I could go back or if anybody would take it, you know, bring me back there. It doesn't make sense.

It does make sense, but I want you to know that you're fear and doubt that's clouding your judgment

and just somebody who's completely objective. A former division one basketball coach,

a former NBA coach is a highly attractive bio and resume, especially if you have some skill set

that will apply to what you're going for. Just I'm just interested. What's your favorite part of

coaching? To me, it's about the relationships and the people I interact with every single day,

whether it's players or other coaches or executives, whatever administrators, whatever it may be.

It's a very people relationship driven business and that to me is why I got into the first place.

I know the salaries are crazy right now, especially in the NBA, but I never was about it for the money.

I was in it for experience, opportunity and just because it felt so satisfying and it still feels

satisfying and I want to keep doing it as long as I can. Did you play college basketball at any level?

You did not. That's the crazy part. No, it's not. I'm 510. I'm Indian and there are not a lot of

people that look like me that do this. Right. Okay. You actually led me right into my question

and you're making my case for me. You aren't in that position because of your ex and O's knowledge

and being a guru, a guy who put up 25 points a game. You're not in that role and you haven't gotten

into that role based on that. Is that true or false? My success is all from work and relationships.

That's it. I don't have the senior NBA career that's something you've got. Exactly.

And you have managed to get to the highest level of a sport, the NBA as a 5 foot 10 Indian.

I mean, you really are an absolute freak in a good way. Okay. And it's all based on your skill set

of connecting with others. Can I just tell you something and Dave can chime in here. He's a guy

that is the founder and active CEO of a company of over 1,000 people and he hosts one of the largest

most influential leadership podcasts in the world. We talk about leadership all the time.

America needs leaders. I'm paying attention to this stuff every day and companies need people

who can lead people who know how to connect with people, who know how to communicate with people,

who know how to instruct people, who know how to encourage people. Amit, you got an incredible

resume. Oh, and an engineering degree. So if I'm you, I'm going to start with, let me take that

degree of engineering and I'm going to look at the engineering field. I'm not going to limit myself

to engineering, but I'm going to start there because I got the degree. And then I'm going to start

working my connections. By the way, I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle,

which for a guy like you who's a learner, it's going to give you the absolute formula, the five

people you need to be around that will help you get where you want to go. And by the way,

you have an unbelievable network. And so all those coaches who know business guys, your college

connections with all these business guys who used to donate money big time. They were hanging

around those D1 programs. Those are your connections and you go, look, I got an engineering degree.

I can get in the engineering field and lead people today. I may not be the most talented engineer,

which by the way, Amit, tell me if I'm right or wrong. The guys and gals that are leading

teams of engineers are rarely the most talented engineer, true false. I would know I've been

removed from it for so long that I don't remember the answer. The answer is leading engineers.

You don't have to be the smartest day of the most talented engineer. You just cut in how to lead

people. And this guy is bona fide. That's my take. And he's going for management and leadership

positions across the spectrum of the business world. I think you can go just about anywhere,

because it's not about the trade and it's not about the industry. It's about his ability to come

in and bring a team together. That's my, that's my two cents on that one. Exactly right. The,

you know, what we teach when we're teaching Ontario leadership to business people is what happens

a lot of times in small businesses. People become accidental entrepreneurs. You know, I'm really

good at heating an air and I get me a truck and then I look up and I got 40 people and 10 trucks.

Yeah, that's right. Running around. Now I'm no longer, now I'm no longer a heating and air

technician. Now I'm a leader. That's right. And leading and running a business is a different

skill set than fixing your air conditioner. And leading and running a people is a different skill

set than playing basketball or being an engineer. The leadership skill set you excel in. That's

right. And so you do have a great resume in that sense. Now the trick is where do you want to

plug it in? What type of a business, what kind of dynamic environment do you want to be in? Where

you're leading and then finding people through your connections with proximity principle to

plug into one of those locations would be, you know, just be amazing. Yeah. I mean, he can

absolutely make this transition and do very, very well because what he has going for him that a lot

of MBA coaches don't have if they leave the that industry is he's got a really good degree. That

engineering degree is very helpful. Meaning he's got that skill set. He's got the mindset to think

like an engineer. You add the leadership to it. Unbelievable. Absolutely. It's exactly how it works.

So hang on, we'll have Christian pickup and we will get you signed up for that. Send out that

book to you. I mean, so can the proximity principle, they give us the thesis of that? It just

simply means this. If I am around the people and in the places that of the space that I want to be

in, then opportunities come my way. And so the formula is this, the right people plus the right

places always will equal opportunity. I got to get around the right people. And then I get in the

right places. And when I'm in the right places, I meet more of the right people. And then they

point me to the right places. And it is this knowledge and connection combination that just keeps

moving, moving, moving, moving, moving. And if you stay with it long enough, opportunities show up

on your doorstep. This idea of kicking the door down is Hollywood, bravado. It makes for great

fantasy. But in the real world, connections come at the most elite, at the most unexpected times

because we keep showing up in the right place or we keep showing up around the right people. And all

of a sudden, I'm top of mind or I've got the experience. And I was showing up and then boom,

I'm ready to step into it. Speak, speak it a basketball. John Wooden, arguably one of the greatest

coaches all time, certainly basketball. My favorite quote, Davey said, when opportunity comes,

it's too late to prepare. And the proximity principle gets me in a place when the opportunity

shows up. I'm ready to step right into it because I kept putting myself around the right people

and in the right places. This is the Ramsey Show.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and

interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right

way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just

experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back

from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com

slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

Our scripture today, Proverbs 36, in all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths.

Thomas Sewell says some of the biggest cases of mistaken identity are among intellectuals

who have trouble remembering that they are not God. Classic, classic passive aggressive,

just mic drop there by Thomas Sewell. Boom, there he goes. David is in Chicago. Hi, David. Welcome

to the Ramsey Show. Oh, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Sure. How can I help?

My question is that I'm trying to do the baby steps. I got myself a little bit of a

quagmire with my debt, mostly real estate investment, but nothing horrible. So I'm trying to apply

the baby steps. And I'd like to sell one on my rentals, but I just don't think my tenant

is going to be able to relocate and or somewhat of a moral quandary. Anything?

Why is your tenant? I can't your tenant relocate. I just don't think that you'll be able to get

another home, especially one as nice and large as this one to house her and her kids.

So you're not you're not charging her market rent? Yeah, it's close. I mean, I could probably

charge her more. So if she's getting close to market rent, why can she not take close to market

rent and go rent something else? I don't I don't think she I just don't think that it's really

available. I think it's really going to put her in her position. And I think she can. Why is it not

available? You think you have the only house? No, no, I don't. I don't, but she's I think she's

paying for her mom's went to and I tried to counsel her to like maybe they could live together,

but I don't think that's a I don't think it's available. She's been late and behind,

you know, you know, there's the rentals and I just like I said, right?

Well, let me just let me ask a question. I'm curious. Did you feel this way? Did you have this

concern for her before you talked to her about the possibility that you were going to do this?

No, yeah, yeah, I did. Okay. And what was her reaction when she when you told her that this was

a possibility? Yeah, I broke it to her a little bit, but not I really haven't come down.

You didn't answer my question. I didn't really say it. I didn't really say anything about selling it.

It really would come up yet. Oh, I know it's not going to go over well because I don't think she's

going to find well, but there's a lot of thinking. I think listen, I it is not your job to manage

her house. That's right. You're her landlord or boss, you're not her daddy. And so your pay,

she's paying almost market rent so she can pay this, take the almost market rent and go rent

something else. And if she wants to come by and households with her mom, that's completely her

business and her problem. It is not your job to manage her life. Yeah, you're right. And you're

not doing anything wrong to take an asset of yours and say, you know, I you don't want to be

mean or nasty about it. And if you want to give a little bit more notice, there's nothing on

fire here. You know, we're going to instead of giving you, I don't know, she on month to month.

He is now. I didn't want to resign on my last summer. She didn't want to resign last summer.

No. Yeah. I get a fair amount of renters like that that don't want to resign.

Yeah. Well, they're not committed to you. You don't have to commit to them. The point is,

you're not about that. I think if you said, okay, I'm legally bound by the lack of a lease to give

you one month's notice. I'm going to give you three months. That's a good compromise. And that

gives you plenty of time to work your way through this. I've appreciated you being our tenant,

except for those times that you didn't pay on time. And, you know, I have to say that. But,

you know, you're acting like this is some kind of freaking stellar tenant. They don't pay market rent,

they don't pay on time. So I missed where I'm excited about this tenant. So, you know, I,

and that's not being mean. It's just like you got really one job when you're a tenant.

Well, two, don't tear up the house and pay the rent on time. These are the two jobs you got. So,

it's your job to make sure you're charged market rent. So,

so I know you don't have a moral dilemma at all. You can be kind and you could give more than

adequate notice and say, you know, I'm sorry. Gosh, if there's any way I can help you with this,

I'll try to help you. But if helping you means you staying in the house past this 90-day mark,

that's not the type of help I'm talking about. So, but if there's, you know, if we can assist you in

any way, I tell you about my friends that have properties, help you find out, you know, something

like that. I appreciate that this, but that's what we're going to give you three months. Notice,

listen, she can process this in three months. And,

if she's angry at her landlord who she refused to sign a lease with for giving her three months

notice, who's only required to give her one month notice, that's her fault. Not yours. That's her

fault. And so I think this is all about David. He's such a nice guy that he's worried about

a confrontational situation and we'll understand that, but this is nothing more than a difficult

conversation and it's not his bag and I get it. But she's going to be fine. Just by virtue of

only she don't want to sign a deal. Anyway, she's got options. She knows it could change in any time.

David, you're a really good dude and you're just fretting over a difficult conversation.

And it's going to be over in about 45-50 seconds. I mean, there's not a lot to it. It's, hey,

going to be selling the house. I'm going to be sending you a note in the mail. So we make it formal

that, you know, July 1st, we're going to be done August 1st, whatever it is. And I'm giving you

plenty of time. You had 30, you have a 30-day write, but I'm going to give you 90 days just because

you've been here a while and I want to be kind. And thanks. That's it. I'm done. It's really,

it's really don't have to have big long thing here. It's not a whole bunch of feelings. It's,

I've had landlord's in my life and none of them had any feelings for me.

That's right. I just none of them did. I just never had one that did that. And I mean, if you

get a situation like we had one one time that, you know, guy got a terminal cancer diagnosis.

Oh, you know, and he's got four months to live and he lost his job because he lost his health

and his life had three little kids at home and all this. And so, you know, we just didn't charge

him rent. We let him live there and let her live there after he passed for a little while.

I mean, we worked, we worked with him, but, but that can't go on for eight years either.

No, even that, you know, it's a, is a period of time we can have some grace and mercy with somebody

in that situation. But just simply, they're going to have to move. That's, you know, this lady,

she really just got a move. I mean, this part, that's why, folks, that's why you want to be an owner

when you can be and not in a stupid way. Don't go buy something you can't afford because I'm

afraid my landlord's going to do that. Oh, by the way, if you don't want to move, sign a lease.

Hello, then you know, he, if he had a one year contract, then he'd have to have to honor that

morally, ethically, legally, everything at that point. So, there's the process. And, you know,

here's the other thing. Those of you that are, that are thinking of owning real estate,

you need to have a policy of raising the rent every single year. Because I've been doing a real

estate for about 40 years and rents have gone up every single year. And the people that I know

they get stuck in situations like this, they don't raise the rent for five years because it's a

nice person and they pay on time and they cut the grass real in a little pattern. And then we just

love them. And you don't raise the rent for five years. And suddenly you've got a way below

market situation. And then you try to raise the rent and they have a fit like they think they're the

owner. So it's really good. It just keeps the relationship accurately defined when we raise the rent.

Even if it's a little bit, what's the day frames away on that? Do you look at the market and then

we look at the market and we go, if they've been with us a long time, it's a little under market.

But not I mean, I'll take it all the way to Max plus some. Been there one year, we just take it up

to market. If they've been there five years, we tell them when they come in too. Next year,

we're just going to be higher and just expect, go ahead and know. Good, you know, in that way,

they're not shocked like what? You know, right. I don't understand. What I mean, what rents are

going up? And so if you don't have that pattern, you set these, you set an entitlement expectation

in place and it creates real serious problems later. It's a real bad idea. That puts us

out of the rams we show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know. I didn't

the meantime remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk

daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.