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You are a Lockdown Big 12, your daily podcast on the Big 12 Conference, part of the Lockdown
1:06
Podcast Network, your team every day.
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Thank you for making this show your first listen every single day bonus episode.
1:20
Ben Crittle, ESPN 960, we go whip around full conference coverage from men's basketball,
1:25
the NCAA tournament, how the big 12 fair, then break your mark, Cody Campbell, where do
1:30
Why is it a good thing?
1:34
We have Cody Campbell.
1:35
I've got a lot of thoughts on this.
1:36
Let's take that interview, give it to you as a bonus episode, locked on big 12, that
1:41
For ad 3, locked on big 12, and if you hit subscribe, I get to keep my job.
1:46
We got Drake C-Tool on the line, also the host of a Westwood One show.
1:52
Ben, always a pleasure to be with you.
1:54
Look, there are some radio shows in the country right now that are doing about a Mount
1:59
Rushmore of our favorite tennis players, but not here, not right now.
2:03
No, man, there's too much to talk about.
2:05
We're going to talk about it today.
2:07
There's always something to talk about, and we don't need to get into the all-time great
2:12
conversations, the Rushmore's on this show, no way, no how.
2:16
First thing I want to broach is this, NCAA tournament, the big 12, how did it fare?
2:23
What grade would you give it?
2:24
I feel like we can't call ourselves the big 12, the best basketball conference in America,
2:30
Brett Yoramark and his conference have fallen short.
2:35
And the big 12 falling short, I don't think, is Doomsday Button, a brutal burn the whole
2:42
It's a matter of this season for the 40 minutes that our teams like Iowa State or BYU or
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Arizona went out there in their key games, their must-win games.
2:51
They did not finish.
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When the moment was the brightest for each of those teams, they did not finish this season.
2:55
And look, Ben, I can go down to the donno and wreck complex and Conway Arkansas and play
3:01
My five against year five.
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Iowa, you probably win with year five, eight times, seven times, but I'm going to get
3:06
you a couple of times.
3:08
Because basketball has variance, right?
3:09
Basketball has so much variance that you get that one scrawny white kid hot from three
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and Furman can beat number one Purdue any given night, right?
3:16
And that's what March Madness is.
3:18
So it's not indicative of the conference overall, the toughness of the regular season of
3:23
That's, that's painted over an 18 game picture, a one game format winner go home though.
3:28
The big 12 did not succeed in winning those games.
3:31
They instead went home and with that, you just can't claim to be the top basketball
3:35
conference in the country, given the way the big 10 played.
3:38
Now again, on a variance, you play this exact same tournament next year all over again.
3:42
Maybe the big 12 has five teams in the sweet 16, but it's not how it went this year.
3:46
So based on the results, the big 12 failed in March Madness to assert itself as the best
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conference in college basketball.
3:54
I'm okay beating the drum of the big 12 still elite, but you know, giving the big 10
3:59
They weren't just that good this year.
4:02
So you got seven bids, I believe in the NCAA tournament UCF and BLU were one in DUNCE,
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UCF, I believe lost to UCLA and BYU lost to Texas.
4:12
Then you have a second round exit with, I think TCU ended up beating what Ohio State
4:16
and then lost to Duke, Kansas, Alabama, and then lost to St. John's Texas Tech beat
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Akron and then lost to Alabama.
4:23
You have, I always stayed, who ended up losing in the sweet 16 to Tennessee.
4:28
It used to lose to Illinois in the elite eight and then obviously U of A lost to Michigan.
4:34
That was a tough loss, it was a blowout loss.
4:37
So, you know, I think overall it's got to be at least considered a BB plus, right?
4:42
I think so in that the big 12 got a final four team in there and a B or a B plus is not
4:49
a bad thing for the conference.
4:51
Again, the variance of basketball, it's kind of part of it.
4:53
What you did see, though, from the big 12 conferences that, again, as the game's got
4:57
bigger, your team's kind of lost worse, it was, it was ugly.
5:01
The way Tennessee beat Iowa State was ugly, the way that Arizona lost to Michigan.
5:05
And that's what Mars, your conference, that's what you remember.
5:08
That's the bad taste that's left in your mouth from the sweet 16 or the final four and
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that was the final four Arizona's case.
5:13
So yeah, the big 12 gets a solid B and, and you know what, Ben, the SEC probably gets
5:18
a solid B for what they did this season as well.
5:20
No final four teams from that conference.
5:22
So maybe a beef, the SEC and a B plus for the big 12.
5:25
Ultimately, it is the big 10s world.
5:27
We're kind of living in it this year and the hope is next season that this conference,
5:31
the big 12 has a better showing in the post season because look, we just didn't get a
5:35
And you asked the national brands and national media outlets, they, they tout the SEC in
5:41
every sport all year long.
5:43
And the big 12 has to win championships in college basketball and in football to change
5:48
that narrative didn't do it this year.
5:50
So the hope is that 2026, 27's a little bit different for this league.
5:55
What would you say, who you most optimistic about in this big 12 conference right now as
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Like which team are you like, they have the best trajectory right now?
6:06
Who you most optimistic about and why?
6:08
I think Tommy Lloyd staying at Arizona sends a massive message to that athletic department
6:12
of we're going to compete.
6:14
He would not stay if not for a renewed investment into Arizona and in Tucson, a fan based
6:19
that wants to buy in from NIL standpoint administration that wants to buy in from
6:23
a portal standpoint.
6:25
He kind of leveraged what colonics talk he did at BYU more or less when clonics and look,
6:30
I want to be the football guru like I don't, I don't, I've been here.
6:33
I don't need a ton of overhead.
6:35
I would like to control this roster.
6:37
I want to control my football program and Brian Santiago and that whole thing clashed
6:41
what three or four months ago.
6:42
So you know what, clonnie, you've earned that and let's pass it off to you.
6:45
Tommy Lloyd wanted that with Arizona basketball.
6:48
He said, I don't know if I really want to report daily to some overhead to some, some
6:54
Let me just be the basketball coach and try to direct this program the best that I can
6:58
in an era where it's really hard to direct a program due to the funky nature of our college
7:05
Tommy Lloyd got that and it makes Arizona more dangerous now that he gets to run the
7:10
He gets extra investment added money, money for his staff.
7:12
I think Lloyd and the reinvestment into basketball from Arizona proves that the wild
7:16
cats are here to stay.
7:18
I'm Clea Butler, host of Lockdown Women's Basketball and this is Mazda's Women's Basketball
7:24
Snapshot, subwriting the word no highlight reel can ever capture.
7:29
All four number one seeds, Yukon UCLA, Texas and South Carolina have completely dominated
7:35
the opening rounds of the NCAA tournament.
7:39
Yukon rolled with a 98 to 45 victory over Syracuse behind AZ Fud who had a 34 point explosion
7:46
while South Carolina has been led by Joyce Edwards coming up a 23 point game.
7:52
UCLA leaned on Lauren Vatch with a 35 point performance in an 87 to 68 win over Oklahoma
7:58
State and Texas advanced comfortably with a 40 point show from Madison Booker and now
8:05
we're headed to the sweet 16.
8:07
These moments are earned off the clock.
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Those long before the lights ever come on, the sweat, the fakes, the doubt, the scrapes
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are coming back for more every time.
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Mazda puts the same drive into every detail, wins to find the moment putting in the work
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There's more to a Mazda because there's more to you.
8:31
And I gotta correct myself, it's actually eight bids, I apologize, I missed that number
8:35
but not seven, but eight bids.
8:37
We don't get paid for math, Ben, we do not get paid for math.
8:39
Hey, I messed up, I was counting, I was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, anyway.
8:43
Yeah, it was actually eight bids.
8:46
Speaking of the enmity within the big 12, what do you think of?
8:52
How would you evaluate the issues between Brett Yormark and Cody Campbell, the mega donor,
9:01
the black gold donor of the Texas Tech Red Raiders who's trying to revamp, revitalize, restructure
9:07
and see double a student athletics.
9:11
This is what happens when you have a brain trust with money and you see it more often
9:16
than not in politics where the politician is driven by the lobbyists, the politicians
9:21
driven by the money in their back pocket.
9:23
So they want to give you their opinions, but they understand, right, and this is for
9:28
those who've been close to politicians or in politics, they understand you can only
9:31
say so much and then you tick off that one guy who's giving you a million dollars or
9:35
you make that donor mad to give you a hundred thousand year last campaign.
9:38
You have to, it's the hardest job that a politician has is not to represent the people.
9:42
It is to represent the lobbyists, to represent the money in the big 12.
9:46
We're kind of functioning like that right now, but Brett Yormark being the president,
9:51
Brett Yormark being the commissioner that the grand emperor and overseer, but the money
9:55
is Cody Campbell tomorrow.
9:57
If Cody Campbell wanted to buy back the opportunity for Texas Tech to throw a tortilla as
10:01
at their football games, he could do it.
10:02
He could strong alarm the big 12 conference, he could leverage that from the big 12 conference
10:06
because ultimately the same way it is in politics, corporation, big business, money
10:11
goes a whole lot further than a figurehead and great, granted Brett Yormark is a very
10:15
powerful figurehead.
10:16
I don't want to take away what he does and the impact he has on the big 12, but money talks
10:21
in every single walk of life, money talks.
10:24
And that's what Cody Campbell has.
10:26
He has the money to broker with the big 12 wants to do the Brett Yormark called Cody
10:30
cable tomorrow and said, Cody, I need XYZ.
10:33
He can deliver, he can bring that to the big 12 and at a pretty dramatic level.
10:39
Instead, what Brett's been doing is less of, I'll pick up the phone and call Cody and
10:42
more of, oh, what about a TV screen?
10:45
That's a basketball court and the room sitting around like, ah, I don't know if it's worth
10:50
our time and investment and Brett Yormark says, what about big 12 championship game in
10:55
Like, okay, Brett, no, we don't need Nelly at half time to catch the SEC in the big 10.
11:00
We've got to think a little bit differently with, with stuff on the field that's going
11:04
to boost our conference.
11:05
I think Cody Campbell is, is, is thinking that way.
11:08
He's wired that way.
11:09
And this tip between him and Brett Yormark is an example of how ultimately it's the board
11:15
of regions, the boards of regions that have the staying power in the big 12 that have the
11:18
money that have the, the true prowess and power alongside the university presidents.
11:23
The commissioners just a figurehead who asked a report to 16 different schools who were
11:27
all asking for variations of the same thing.
11:30
Yeah, it's, it's crazy, right?
11:33
I mean, hey, we, we have a new T-Boon pickings right in the big 12.
11:37
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
11:40
I think I personally think it's, it's just fine.
11:43
There, there's a lot of flack on social media toward Texas tech fans and Cody Campbell this
11:48
Um, but, but honestly, you hit the nail on the head with the T-Boon pickings reference
11:52
What's so great about Cody Campbell is he's front facing.
11:55
Most of these places, you know, Baylor University where I went, Drayton McLean was the one
11:58
who built McLean Stadium and he's not a very public figure.
12:02
He's kind of in the shadows, he owned the Astros for a bit, but you didn't have somebody
12:05
to blame or to look to or to, you didn't have belief.
12:09
It's like, there's something Santa Claus asked, Easter Bunny asked about Cody K.
12:14
We can put a face, a name and entity we can believe in this thing.
12:19
And it's not just some random name on a building from some guy sitting in the sky.
12:23
No, Cody Campbell is very active.
12:25
I think ultimately he is good for the big 12 and, you know what, somehow this kind of
12:29
dialogue, this, this public tip that the two got into, I think it's good for the conference.
12:34
People love the most important news value in the world is, is conflict.
12:38
People love conflict and oddity and it's a really odd thing when the leader of the Texas
12:42
tech board of regions is going at it on Twitter with the commissioner of the big 12 conference.
12:47
People turn their eyes to that.
12:48
It's attention and attention beats marketing a hundred percent of the time.
12:52
The big 12 having a figure head like Cody Campbell, while some people push back say,
12:55
oh, it's super annoying and he wants to get his way and he only wants his way.
12:59
Well, dog, he's got the money to buy that and, and at this point, you probably want
13:04
You don't want to be that guy's adversary.
13:07
What do you think the future of NCAA college athletics looks like right now?
13:12
There's a lot of holo blue occurring out there.
13:15
I think you saw the kind of this basketball round table with, with some of the, the talking
13:22
heads of ESPN and Coach Cal, et cetera, just battling it back and forth.
13:27
They want to see change.
13:29
Everybody wants to see change, but how do you effectuate change?
13:33
Where do you stand and how you would, how you would bring about change and the right
13:37
change with, you know, maybe a more balanced approach to, to, to the restructuring, et cetera.
13:45
I do think step one is ensuring the transfer portals a much tougher thing to get in and
13:49
out of and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to harm the 19 year old women's basketball
13:56
player from Arizona state who wants to transfer to be closer to, to family and go to UCLA
14:00
or transfer, be closer to family, go to Washington, I mean, those are, are different stories.
14:06
But most of what we're seeing in college athletics is transferring for money or for new opportunities
14:10
that, that ultimately are harmful for these athletes.
14:13
So they're 25 to 30% any given year of the athletes that enter the transfer portal.
14:18
We're killing college basketball and college football.
14:21
We're killing the small schools in college basketball and college football and we're
14:24
killing the athletes that bet on themselves and come up short, they, they fall short.
14:28
To me, it starts where President Trump has, has directed his executive order with trying
14:34
to ensure that the transfer portals are one time thing.
14:36
You get one shot of the transfer portal outside of that, you have to sit out a year.
14:40
That was a very effective rule when it was in place.
14:42
I don't mind it being in place once again in college athletics.
14:45
And then with the NIL, you're going to have to at some point see a salary cap.
14:50
It's, it blows my mind.
14:52
Ohio State tomorrow, if they really wanted to, it could spend $100 million on a roster and
14:56
no one can stop them and conversely, you know, I'm the kind of guy who loves watching,
15:01
you know, even playing field in college athletics.
15:03
I like when Illinois or, or Purdue can go toe to toe with Ohio State and make it interesting.
15:09
But if you're, you're seeing an major league baseball, if your roster is $20 million and the
15:14
other guys roster is $450 million, you can't compete with that.
15:18
There's just no way.
15:20
And the fact that we're allowing that in college football and college basketball is silly.
15:24
It's, it's completely stupid and backward and, and to where big 12 schools like a BYU or a
15:30
Utah or Arizona State struggle to compete against Ohio State.
15:33
Obviously, because it's Ohio State, it's LSU, it's Alabama.
15:37
What we need in college athletics is a revamp and a revision to the transfer portal
15:41
at a cap on NIL and we need it fast.
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16:47
I got Drake toll locked on big 12.
16:50
What else have you been broaching there at locked on big 12 this week and in the weeks prior?
16:55
Man, we've seen some silly reporting out of this UNC Tommy Lloyd Scott Drew situation.
17:02
I can confirm after conversations in Waco where Scott was never really, I think toy is the
17:09
Scott could have told me the idea of North Carolina.
17:12
This is a deal where Scott picks up the phone and says, I don't think so and then hangs
17:18
It wasn't much at all that goes into Scott Drew with North Carolina.
17:21
He was never truly interested in that job and passed it up and I think UNC had Scott
17:26
as probably fourth or fifth down their list if not further of names and that's where
17:31
And along was not their first choice in this hunt Tommy Lloyd was really in the thick
17:37
He was way up there.
17:38
And honestly, man, I thought Lloyd was going to leave at one point last week to go to
17:41
North Carolina, bolting from Arizona that Tommy Lloyd would take his bags and be in Chapel
17:47
Instead, he gets to stay in Tucson, he gets a massive raise, Scott Drew is in the good
17:51
graces of Baylor and it's kind of an opportunity with his new athletic director Doug McNamee
17:55
to say, Hey, Doug, I could leave.
17:57
Oh, it's on the phone.
17:58
I could and it gives you more resources and more money for your staff, more money for
18:01
yourself, more ability to retain players out of the transfer portal and the high school
18:05
Ultimately, from the big 12 standpoint, this North Carolina search, there were two guys
18:08
who were in that conversation.
18:10
Scott Drew was never really in those talks and Tommy Lloyd was, but Tommy got what he wanted
18:14
stays in Tucson, gets a massive pay grade, gets to stay out west too.
18:18
I know that matters a lot to him and his family.
18:20
And the big, the big 12 wins and I think ultimately North Carolina, they lost.
18:25
I'm not sure if Malone's going to work out there the way the guys like Kevin Young have
18:28
a BYU bringing their NBA talent and prowess North Carolina is just a different animal and
18:33
we'll see how that goes.
18:34
That's for the guys that locked on ACC to figure out.
18:38
It's, it was a big win.
18:39
Like, what do you impact?
18:41
What message does that send to everybody else out there in the call football landscape?
18:48
Regarding the retention of Tommy Lloyd at U of A do you think?
18:51
You can't bully us.
18:52
You can't bully the, you know, you just saw it with Penn State who tried to poach a couple
18:56
of big 12 coaches and Kalani's talking at BYU being one of them.
19:00
You just sent the message that, oh, you think Arizona's a small brand or you think the
19:02
big 12's a small brand?
19:03
Oh, you think we can't compete or pony up that money?
19:06
Well, it's not just the crumble cookies guy.
19:08
We've got donors all over this conference.
19:10
We got donors in every school in Arizona can retain and it doesn't matter if you're Duke
19:15
or Carolina, we in the big 12 care about basketball enough to keep our guys when they're
19:21
We'll keep our guys.
19:23
Drue and most notably Tommy Lloyd are selling the big 12 conference today.
19:29
Drag toll, ladies and gentlemen.
19:30
Last thing from me, BYU, the state of the program in the big 12 football basketball
19:37
combined, the Olympic sports, where do you see BYU amidst this conference?
19:43
And you know, with so much talent, more resources now than ever and led by, in my opinion,
19:48
uh, a, a, a great visionary, uh, a forward thinker in Brett Yolman.
19:53
Yeah, I, I think the BYU is in a great spot.
19:56
The big 12 conference, and that's not, that's an understatement, right?
19:59
They just won 11 games in the regular season and football.
20:02
Men's basketball had the number one player in the country who will go number one
20:04
overall in the NBA draft like that, that kind of publicity.
20:07
Your NIL money is coming right back towards you.
20:10
And what I love about BYU and this coming off Easter weekend as apropos is the
20:14
commitment to faith, the commitment to something bigger than just education,
20:17
bigger than just the transfer portal or NIL, the commitment to knowing that the
20:21
portal NIL that, that these athletic successes turn right back around and reflect
20:26
on the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
20:27
That sort of mission is something not a lot of schools have and not a lot of
20:31
schools can commit to BYU has committed to it.
20:34
It looks different now than it did 10 years ago, five years ago, 15 years
20:37
ago, but BYU is committed to winning an athletics.
20:40
I think it's going to turn around and be a great, a great front porch for the
20:43
university and continue to drive up admissions.
20:45
Can you, can you to point people towards and bend this is a tangent, but like this
20:49
secret lives of Mormon wives thing people are like, oh, that's what it's like in Salt
20:52
Lake City and in Provo, not even close, not even close.
20:56
We need more entities like BYU to be at the forefront of college athletics to
21:01
showcase who these people really are.
21:03
What this culture is about, what this faith is about.
21:06
And I love that BYU is doing that through investment in their athletics.
21:09
Secret lives of Mormon wives is fake TV slop BYU is the real deal.
21:14
Yeah, it's, it's interesting because you're right.
21:16
Like, I mean, look, you kind of became familiar with the people, the faith.
21:23
You know, through this probably process of covering the big 12, there's not
21:27
stereotypes out there that you probably had to engage with and you're like, oh, wait.
21:33
Can you give me that your perspective on engaging with those, those stereotypes
21:37
and how those have been to maybe disrupt it?
21:40
Yeah, I think it's, it's ignorant.
21:41
It's more than anything, you know, I can't blame the guy who grew up in Ames, Iowa
21:45
and thought, oh, they can't drink caffeine.
21:46
Like, well, they'd really do love die coke.
21:49
Um, you know, there are misconceptions that I think are for the most part of the big
21:53
12 blue collar conference that are in the right place.
21:56
People have the right heart about it.
21:57
They're just misinformed or uninformed, right?
21:59
And so I don't blame that guy from Ames.
22:02
I don't blame the freshman at Oklahoma State who cheated after Mormons just because
22:05
the junior standing to his left did it.
22:07
You know, it's, it's a lack of understanding and knowledge for a lot of these big
22:11
12 fan bases, a lot of these big 12 fans that slowly, but surely as BYU gets better
22:15
and the conference supports the, the school and what it's mission is more people
22:19
are beginning to understand that ignorance is starting to go away as they believe, as they
22:22
now believe, wow, they do have caffeine sometime.
22:25
They are normal people.
22:27
I get to know this, this different strains thing that I've been told or grown up that I grew
22:32
up thinking, um, I think BYU every single day is, is teaching people what the, the school
22:39
Drake told ladies and gentlemen, best way to support you, what you do, how you do it
22:43
for all of our listeners.
22:45
At locked on big 12, we'll be fine your podcast and on YouTube.
22:50
And then it, how's the show going?
22:51
How's the new show going on Westwood one?
22:55
You should tune in sometime.
22:56
Drake told show Westwood one sports six and the nine AM Eastern time.
23:04
Drake told we salute you.
23:05
We appreciate your man.
23:06
Thanks for hopping on.
23:09
That's Drake told ladies and gentlemen locked on big 12.
23:16
This has been always will be locked on.
23:18
Thanks for making it your first listen every single day.
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More passion in the details.
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And more control in changing weather.
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The all new Mazda CX-5 more to move every side of you.
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See it in five films at Mazda USA dot com slash five sites.
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Google is a trademark of Google LLC sequences shortened and simulated.
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And for a lot of us, the old way of doing taxes is just a lot.
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But this year you're getting an upgrade into a turbo tax now has in person locations where
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you can meet face to face with a real tax expert.
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Get your documents uploaded and just like that, you're done.
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Your expert works to get you every dollar you deserve while you get real time updates
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and go about your day head to turbo tax dot com slash local to book your appointment.