You NEED To Hear This to Understand Cody Campbell, Brett Yormark's Big 12 Feud Over Texas Tech

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That's right.

Ben Crittle, ESPN 960, we go whip around full conference coverage from men's basketball,

the NCAA tournament, how the big 12 fair, then break your mark, Cody Campbell, where do

we sit with that?

Why is it a good thing?

It's good.

They're fighting.

It's good.

We have Cody Campbell.

I've got a lot of thoughts on this.

Let's take that interview, give it to you as a bonus episode, locked on big 12, that

supercast.com.

For ad 3, locked on big 12, and if you hit subscribe, I get to keep my job.

Why am I delaying?

Ben, let's do it.

We got Drake C-Tool on the line, also the host of a Westwood One show.

What's up, Drake?

Ben, always a pleasure to be with you.

Look, there are some radio shows in the country right now that are doing about a Mount

Rushmore of our favorite tennis players, but not here, not right now.

No, man, there's too much to talk about.

We're going to talk about it today.

There's always something to talk about, and we don't need to get into the all-time great

conversations, the Rushmore's on this show, no way, no how.

First thing I want to broach is this, NCAA tournament, the big 12, how did it fare?

What grade would you give it?

I feel like we can't call ourselves the big 12, the best basketball conference in America,

Brett Yoramark and his conference have fallen short.

I think so.

And the big 12 falling short, I don't think, is Doomsday Button, a brutal burn the whole

think down.

It's a matter of this season for the 40 minutes that our teams like Iowa State or BYU or

Arizona went out there in their key games, their must-win games.

They did not finish.

When the moment was the brightest for each of those teams, they did not finish this season.

And look, Ben, I can go down to the donno and wreck complex and Conway Arkansas and play

five on five.

My five against year five.

Iowa, you probably win with year five, eight times, seven times, but I'm going to get

you a couple of times.

Why?

Because basketball has variance, right?

Basketball has so much variance that you get that one scrawny white kid hot from three

and Furman can beat number one Purdue any given night, right?

And that's what March Madness is.

So it's not indicative of the conference overall, the toughness of the regular season of

the conference.

That's, that's painted over an 18 game picture, a one game format winner go home though.

The big 12 did not succeed in winning those games.

They instead went home and with that, you just can't claim to be the top basketball

conference in the country, given the way the big 10 played.

Now again, on a variance, you play this exact same tournament next year all over again.

Maybe the big 12 has five teams in the sweet 16, but it's not how it went this year.

So based on the results, the big 12 failed in March Madness to assert itself as the best

conference in college basketball.

And I'm okay.

I'm okay beating the drum of the big 12 still elite, but you know, giving the big 10

their flowers.

They weren't just that good this year.

Yeah.

So you got seven bids, I believe in the NCAA tournament UCF and BLU were one in DUNCE,

UCF, I believe lost to UCLA and BYU lost to Texas.

Then you have a second round exit with, I think TCU ended up beating what Ohio State

and then lost to Duke, Kansas, Alabama, and then lost to St. John's Texas Tech beat

Akron and then lost to Alabama.

You have, I always stayed, who ended up losing in the sweet 16 to Tennessee.

It used to lose to Illinois in the elite eight and then obviously U of A lost to Michigan.

That was a tough loss, it was a blowout loss.

So, you know, I think overall it's got to be at least considered a BB plus, right?

Yeah.

I think so in that the big 12 got a final four team in there and a B or a B plus is not

a bad thing for the conference.

Again, the variance of basketball, it's kind of part of it.

What you did see, though, from the big 12 conferences that, again, as the game's got

bigger, your team's kind of lost worse, it was, it was ugly.

The way Tennessee beat Iowa State was ugly, the way that Arizona lost to Michigan.

And that's what Mars, your conference, that's what you remember.

That's the bad taste that's left in your mouth from the sweet 16 or the final four and

that was the final four Arizona's case.

So yeah, the big 12 gets a solid B and, and you know what, Ben, the SEC probably gets

a solid B for what they did this season as well.

No final four teams from that conference.

So maybe a beef, the SEC and a B plus for the big 12.

Ultimately, it is the big 10s world.

We're kind of living in it this year and the hope is next season that this conference,

the big 12 has a better showing in the post season because look, we just didn't get a

lot of love.

And you asked the national brands and national media outlets, they, they tout the SEC in

every sport all year long.

And the big 12 has to win championships in college basketball and in football to change

that narrative didn't do it this year.

So the hope is that 2026, 27's a little bit different for this league.

What would you say, who you most optimistic about in this big 12 conference right now as

it pertains to who?

Like which team are you like, they have the best trajectory right now?

Who you most optimistic about and why?

I think Tommy Lloyd staying at Arizona sends a massive message to that athletic department

of we're going to compete.

He would not stay if not for a renewed investment into Arizona and in Tucson, a fan based

that wants to buy in from NIL standpoint administration that wants to buy in from

a portal standpoint.

And you know what?

He kind of leveraged what colonics talk he did at BYU more or less when clonics and look,

I want to be the football guru like I don't, I don't, I've been here.

I don't need a ton of overhead.

I would like to control this roster.

I want to control my football program and Brian Santiago and that whole thing clashed

what three or four months ago.

So you know what, clonnie, you've earned that and let's pass it off to you.

Tommy Lloyd wanted that with Arizona basketball.

He said, I don't know if I really want to report daily to some overhead to some, some

figure in the sky.

Let me just be the basketball coach and try to direct this program the best that I can

in an era where it's really hard to direct a program due to the funky nature of our college

athletic sits.

Tommy Lloyd got that and it makes Arizona more dangerous now that he gets to run the

ship.

He gets extra investment added money, money for his staff.

I think Lloyd and the reinvestment into basketball from Arizona proves that the wild

cats are here to stay.

I'm Clea Butler, host of Lockdown Women's Basketball and this is Mazda's Women's Basketball

Snapshot, subwriting the word no highlight reel can ever capture.

All four number one seeds, Yukon UCLA, Texas and South Carolina have completely dominated

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UCLA leaned on Lauren Vatch with a 35 point performance in an 87 to 68 win over Oklahoma

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And I gotta correct myself, it's actually eight bids, I apologize, I missed that number

but not seven, but eight bids.

We don't get paid for math, Ben, we do not get paid for math.

Hey, I messed up, I was counting, I was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, anyway.

Yeah, it was actually eight bids.

Speaking of the enmity within the big 12, what do you think of?

How would you evaluate the issues between Brett Yormark and Cody Campbell, the mega donor,

the black gold donor of the Texas Tech Red Raiders who's trying to revamp, revitalize, restructure

and see double a student athletics.

This is what happens when you have a brain trust with money and you see it more often

than not in politics where the politician is driven by the lobbyists, the politicians

driven by the money in their back pocket.

So they want to give you their opinions, but they understand, right, and this is for

those who've been close to politicians or in politics, they understand you can only

say so much and then you tick off that one guy who's giving you a million dollars or

you make that donor mad to give you a hundred thousand year last campaign.

You have to, it's the hardest job that a politician has is not to represent the people.

It is to represent the lobbyists, to represent the money in the big 12.

We're kind of functioning like that right now, but Brett Yormark being the president,

Brett Yormark being the commissioner that the grand emperor and overseer, but the money

is Cody Campbell tomorrow.

If Cody Campbell wanted to buy back the opportunity for Texas Tech to throw a tortilla as

at their football games, he could do it.

He could strong alarm the big 12 conference, he could leverage that from the big 12 conference

because ultimately the same way it is in politics, corporation, big business, money

goes a whole lot further than a figurehead and great, granted Brett Yormark is a very

powerful figurehead.

I don't want to take away what he does and the impact he has on the big 12, but money talks

in every single walk of life, money talks.

And that's what Cody Campbell has.

He has the money to broker with the big 12 wants to do the Brett Yormark called Cody

cable tomorrow and said, Cody, I need XYZ.

He can deliver, he can bring that to the big 12 and at a pretty dramatic level.

Instead, what Brett's been doing is less of, I'll pick up the phone and call Cody and

more of, oh, what about a TV screen?

That's a basketball court and the room sitting around like, ah, I don't know if it's worth

our time and investment and Brett Yormark says, what about big 12 championship game in

time square?

Like, okay, Brett, no, we don't need Nelly at half time to catch the SEC in the big 10.

We've got to think a little bit differently with, with stuff on the field that's going

to boost our conference.

I think Cody Campbell is, is, is thinking that way.

He's wired that way.

And this tip between him and Brett Yormark is an example of how ultimately it's the board

of regions, the boards of regions that have the staying power in the big 12 that have the

money that have the, the true prowess and power alongside the university presidents.

The commissioners just a figurehead who asked a report to 16 different schools who were

all asking for variations of the same thing.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy, right?

I mean, hey, we, we have a new T-Boon pickings right in the big 12.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I think I personally think it's, it's just fine.

There, there's a lot of flack on social media toward Texas tech fans and Cody Campbell this

week.

Um, but, but honestly, you hit the nail on the head with the T-Boon pickings reference

by the way.

What's so great about Cody Campbell is he's front facing.

Most of these places, you know, Baylor University where I went, Drayton McLean was the one

who built McLean Stadium and he's not a very public figure.

He's kind of in the shadows, he owned the Astros for a bit, but you didn't have somebody

to blame or to look to or to, you didn't have belief.

It's like, there's something Santa Claus asked, Easter Bunny asked about Cody K.

We can put a face, a name and entity we can believe in this thing.

And it's not just some random name on a building from some guy sitting in the sky.

No, Cody Campbell is very active.

I think ultimately he is good for the big 12 and, you know what, somehow this kind of

dialogue, this, this public tip that the two got into, I think it's good for the conference.

People love the most important news value in the world is, is conflict.

People love conflict and oddity and it's a really odd thing when the leader of the Texas

tech board of regions is going at it on Twitter with the commissioner of the big 12 conference.

People turn their eyes to that.

It's attention and attention beats marketing a hundred percent of the time.

The big 12 having a figure head like Cody Campbell, while some people push back say,

oh, it's super annoying and he wants to get his way and he only wants his way.

Well, dog, he's got the money to buy that and, and at this point, you probably want

to be on his side.

You don't want to be that guy's adversary.

What do you think the future of NCAA college athletics looks like right now?

There's a lot of holo blue occurring out there.

I think you saw the kind of this basketball round table with, with some of the, the talking

heads of ESPN and Coach Cal, et cetera, just battling it back and forth.

They want to see change.

Everybody wants to see change, but how do you effectuate change?

Where do you stand and how you would, how you would bring about change and the right

change with, you know, maybe a more balanced approach to, to, to the restructuring, et cetera.

I do think step one is ensuring the transfer portals a much tougher thing to get in and

out of and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to harm the 19 year old women's basketball

player from Arizona state who wants to transfer to be closer to, to family and go to UCLA

or transfer, be closer to family, go to Washington, I mean, those are, are different stories.

But most of what we're seeing in college athletics is transferring for money or for new opportunities

that, that ultimately are harmful for these athletes.

So they're 25 to 30% any given year of the athletes that enter the transfer portal.

Don't find a home.

We're killing college basketball and college football.

We're killing the small schools in college basketball and college football and we're

killing the athletes that bet on themselves and come up short, they, they fall short.

To me, it starts where President Trump has, has directed his executive order with trying

to ensure that the transfer portals are one time thing.

You get one shot of the transfer portal outside of that, you have to sit out a year.

That was a very effective rule when it was in place.

I don't mind it being in place once again in college athletics.

And then with the NIL, you're going to have to at some point see a salary cap.

It's, it blows my mind.

Ohio State tomorrow, if they really wanted to, it could spend $100 million on a roster and

no one can stop them and conversely, you know, I'm the kind of guy who loves watching,

you know, even playing field in college athletics.

I like when Illinois or, or Purdue can go toe to toe with Ohio State and make it interesting.

But if you're, you're seeing an major league baseball, if your roster is $20 million and the

other guys roster is $450 million, you can't compete with that.

There's just no way.

And the fact that we're allowing that in college football and college basketball is silly.

It's, it's completely stupid and backward and, and to where big 12 schools like a BYU or a

Utah or Arizona State struggle to compete against Ohio State.

Obviously, because it's Ohio State, it's LSU, it's Alabama.

What we need in college athletics is a revamp and a revision to the transfer portal

at a cap on NIL and we need it fast.

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I got Drake toll locked on big 12.

What else have you been broaching there at locked on big 12 this week and in the weeks prior?

Man, we've seen some silly reporting out of this UNC Tommy Lloyd Scott Drew situation.

I can confirm after conversations in Waco where Scott was never really, I think toy is the

right word.

Scott could have told me the idea of North Carolina.

This is a deal where Scott picks up the phone and says, I don't think so and then hangs

the phone up.

It wasn't much at all that goes into Scott Drew with North Carolina.

He was never truly interested in that job and passed it up and I think UNC had Scott

as probably fourth or fifth down their list if not further of names and that's where

they got.

And along was not their first choice in this hunt Tommy Lloyd was really in the thick

of this.

He was way up there.

And honestly, man, I thought Lloyd was going to leave at one point last week to go to

North Carolina, bolting from Arizona that Tommy Lloyd would take his bags and be in Chapel

Hill.

Instead, he gets to stay in Tucson, he gets a massive raise, Scott Drew is in the good

graces of Baylor and it's kind of an opportunity with his new athletic director Doug McNamee

to say, Hey, Doug, I could leave.

Oh, it's on the phone.

I could and it gives you more resources and more money for your staff, more money for

yourself, more ability to retain players out of the transfer portal and the high school

ranks.

Ultimately, from the big 12 standpoint, this North Carolina search, there were two guys

who were in that conversation.

Scott Drew was never really in those talks and Tommy Lloyd was, but Tommy got what he wanted

stays in Tucson, gets a massive pay grade, gets to stay out west too.

I know that matters a lot to him and his family.

And the big, the big 12 wins and I think ultimately North Carolina, they lost.

I'm not sure if Malone's going to work out there the way the guys like Kevin Young have

a BYU bringing their NBA talent and prowess North Carolina is just a different animal and

we'll see how that goes.

That's for the guys that locked on ACC to figure out.

Yeah.

It's, it was a big win.

Like, what do you impact?

What message does that send to everybody else out there in the call football landscape?

Regarding the retention of Tommy Lloyd at U of A do you think?

You can't bully us.

You can't bully the, you know, you just saw it with Penn State who tried to poach a couple

of big 12 coaches and Kalani's talking at BYU being one of them.

You just sent the message that, oh, you think Arizona's a small brand or you think the

big 12's a small brand?

Oh, you think we can't compete or pony up that money?

Well, it's not just the crumble cookies guy.

We've got donors all over this conference.

We got donors in every school in Arizona can retain and it doesn't matter if you're Duke

or Carolina, we in the big 12 care about basketball enough to keep our guys when they're

winning.

We'll keep our guys.

Drue and most notably Tommy Lloyd are selling the big 12 conference today.

Love it.

Drag toll, ladies and gentlemen.

Last thing from me, BYU, the state of the program in the big 12 football basketball

combined, the Olympic sports, where do you see BYU amidst this conference?

And you know, with so much talent, more resources now than ever and led by, in my opinion,

uh, a, a, a great visionary, uh, a forward thinker in Brett Yolman.

Yeah, I, I think the BYU is in a great spot.

The big 12 conference, and that's not, that's an understatement, right?

They just won 11 games in the regular season and football.

Men's basketball had the number one player in the country who will go number one

overall in the NBA draft like that, that kind of publicity.

Your NIL money is coming right back towards you.

And what I love about BYU and this coming off Easter weekend as apropos is the

commitment to faith, the commitment to something bigger than just education,

bigger than just the transfer portal or NIL, the commitment to knowing that the

portal NIL that, that these athletic successes turn right back around and reflect

on the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

That sort of mission is something not a lot of schools have and not a lot of

schools can commit to BYU has committed to it.

It looks different now than it did 10 years ago, five years ago, 15 years

ago, but BYU is committed to winning an athletics.

I think it's going to turn around and be a great, a great front porch for the

university and continue to drive up admissions.

Can you, can you to point people towards and bend this is a tangent, but like this

secret lives of Mormon wives thing people are like, oh, that's what it's like in Salt

Lake City and in Provo, not even close, not even close.

We need more entities like BYU to be at the forefront of college athletics to

showcase who these people really are.

What this culture is about, what this faith is about.

And I love that BYU is doing that through investment in their athletics.

Secret lives of Mormon wives is fake TV slop BYU is the real deal.

Yeah, it's, it's interesting because you're right.

Like, I mean, look, you kind of became familiar with the people, the faith.

You know, through this probably process of covering the big 12, there's not

stereotypes out there that you probably had to engage with and you're like, oh, wait.

Can you give me that your perspective on engaging with those, those stereotypes

and how those have been to maybe disrupt it?

Yeah, I think it's, it's ignorant.

It's more than anything, you know, I can't blame the guy who grew up in Ames, Iowa

and thought, oh, they can't drink caffeine.

Like, well, they'd really do love die coke.

Um, you know, there are misconceptions that I think are for the most part of the big

12 blue collar conference that are in the right place.

People have the right heart about it.

They're just misinformed or uninformed, right?

And so I don't blame that guy from Ames.

I don't blame the freshman at Oklahoma State who cheated after Mormons just because

the junior standing to his left did it.

You know, it's, it's a lack of understanding and knowledge for a lot of these big

12 fan bases, a lot of these big 12 fans that slowly, but surely as BYU gets better

and the conference supports the, the school and what it's mission is more people

are beginning to understand that ignorance is starting to go away as they believe, as they

now believe, wow, they do have caffeine sometime.

They are normal people.

I get to know this, this different strains thing that I've been told or grown up that I grew

up thinking, um, I think BYU every single day is, is teaching people what the, the school

is truly about.

Drake told ladies and gentlemen, best way to support you, what you do, how you do it

for all of our listeners.

At locked on big 12, we'll be fine your podcast and on YouTube.

Love it.

And then it, how's the show going?

How's the new show going on Westwood one?

Then it's great.

You should tune in sometime.

Drake told show Westwood one sports six and the nine AM Eastern time.

Love it.

Stream it.

Watch it.

Follow it.

Drake told we salute you.

We appreciate your man.

Thanks for hopping on.

See you then.

There you go.

That's Drake told ladies and gentlemen locked on big 12.

Good guys, man.

Really good dudes.

Nice.

This has been always will be locked on.

Thanks for making it your first listen every single day.

Dosey Grande.

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