'Your City Could Be Better': Meet Nashville's Rogue Bench Builders — Presented By City Cast DC

This is your city could be better, because it could be, I'm David Floss, if you love

your city and still complain about it, you're in the right place.

Waiting to bus stop can be a real drag, might be scorching on a sunny day, soaking on

a rainy day that's usually nowhere to sit, but there's a grassroots guerrilla campaign

in Nashville and in some other cities to make bus stop life a little bit better.

A group called, quite charmingly, to Nashville with love, has built and installed 60 benches

at bus stops around Nashville, all without government approval.

This DIY urban infrastructure is inspiring and thought provoking, and not everyone seems

to like it.

City transit officials have removed at least 17 of the benches, saying they interfered

with the right of way.

So should citizens improve local infrastructure when government fails to, does that make cities

better?

The day on your city could be better, I'm joined by Marisa Ciel Anderson, host of city

cash, Nashville, hello, Marie, what do these benches look like?

And do they make the streetscape of Nashville seem more or less organized and better?

Well, David, I'm glad you asked, because as a daughter of an art teacher, all I see

are art installations all across our city.

But really, they're just super simple wooden benches designed for comfort.

They have kind of a slight lean to them.

They're made out of really cheap lumber you can get from blows or home depot.

But the kicker is that they are painted beautiful colors with super fun artwork.

One of my favorite ones looks like a stick of butter.

Or another one says, music city, S-I-T-Y, and then is that clever?

And then also one that I just recently saw, it says, the right to rest, which really

sums up the message behind this movement.

And what I also really like about them is that they look intentional.

It's obvious that someone took the time and the initiative to put them in that place

on purpose, where there wasn't a bench before.

So it highlights the fact that the city had failed to build a proper bus stop.

And if they usually on sidewalks, are they next to sidewalks, are they close to the curb?

They're far away from the street, generally, they're not always on a sidewalk.

It's usually in a place where there's no sidewalks, I see.

They're on super busy, dangerous streets, at least like four feet away from the street,

itself.

A lot of them, the people would be standing in ditches if it weren't for these benches.

Just visualize that for a second.

Yeah.

I think I can see that.

So what's the group that's building the benches to Nashville with love and why do they

start doing it?

Well, they are folks who love a little good trouble.

They call themselves too Nashville with love.

It's a coalition of clergy, transit and pedestrian advocates, and super passionate people who

work with our unhoused community.

So what I like about it is that rather than freezing in despair, these folks were empowered

to work together to help their neighbors after seeing these people who, you know, they're

seeing elderly people waiting for the bus.

They're seeing parents with children waiting for the bus, people who are on their way to work

who are about to be on their feet all day.

So why it all started, I'm going to tell you a story.

Just picture beautiful benches along Korean vets boulevard downtown Nashville, beautiful

benches.

But all of a sudden, these benches are removed by Nashville Department of Transportation

and the Metro Council member of downtown.

They took these benches away and replaced them with hostile architecture in the form of

big beautiful balls.

And they claimed that it was for safety reasons, but I think in actuality, it was because they

didn't want the tourists to see the unhoused community who would been sleeping on the benches

or resting on the benches.

Absolutely.

Also, the person who was spearheading this, her name is Pastor Robin Owen and she came

on city cast Nashville and told us about the origin story behind this and she's super

nerdy when it comes to urban planning.

She's really passionate about it.

She's done all her research and she is dedicated to this movement and had followed what happened

in Buffalo, New York and Lincoln, Nebraska and Oliver, California.

So she was studying these gorilla bench building and then so just as it happened when they

removed the benches from Korean vets, she had a bench in her trunk ready to go because

she had been studying this.

And she has some cool friends to her Nashville and so on the side, they were kind of making

these benches and slowly putting them across the city, which then led to this movement.

So when did they start putting up benches and then when did the government start removing

them?

So I think the timing, okay, so first bench appeared last August, shortly after those

benches on Korean vets were removed.

In September, she wrote a manifesto with a list of demands on her blog of just how to

help your neighbor and how to host your own bench building party as well.

And so when the city removed the benches on Korean vets, they replaced the metro benches

with their benches, sadly though, and not remove these DIY benches and place them in

don't don't bench jail, which then some advocates broke these benches out of bench jail.

And we had Robin on our show and it was really interesting because, you know, is Indot just

doing their job?

Like, who should we be mad at?

You know, that sort of thing, but they met with and got an Indot in November said, we

will not be removing any more of these benches.

So it was kind of like a win-win from what we understand after they promised to not remove

any in November.

They did not remove any.

And the government Indot is removing them because why?

Well, they're saying that it's obstructing the right of way on the sidewalks.

But what's crazy is that the full purpose of their movement is to provide accessibility

to everyone.

And Robin and her crew would never purposefully do that.

Have you ever heard a regular person say anything negative about these benches?

No, I haven't.

I do wonder.

We have a super fancy part of town as most cities do.

I'm not aware that they've been placing these benches in that area of town that prides

himself on uniformity.

So I'd be curious what maybe those neighbors would say, but on my side of town, everybody

loves them.

They brighten up everybody's day when you see them.

So I haven't heard any complaints.

So this is not the only city where this has happened.

And I was reading about Berkeley, California, where activists have put up more than a dozen

benches.

And there was a really interesting set of statistics in the article I was reading about

this, which said that the volunteers who were putting up these benches were spending

about $80 a bench to put them in.

But that when the government put in a bus stop bench, they had to spend $3,400 because

they were meeting at various high standards and had to conform to certain rules and procedures,

which were probably well-intentioned.

It's probably like, oh, our bench has to, it has to be able to withstand a person who

weighs 350 pounds sitting on it with a force of 2.25 pounds per square inch for 15 hours

straight.

And it also has to have a certain kind of bolt and it has to be x inches high.

They don't want to get sued.

They do not want to get sued.

Absolutely.

They don't want to get sued.

But here in Nashville, it's wild because we don't have adequate sidewalks.

It takes two to three years to get sidewalks approved.

We do not have bike lanes.

We are fighting for just accessibility and it takes years.

And like our full city voted on a plan called Choose How You Move.

We want this for our city.

But it's just, you know, we got to cross your teeth and dot your eyes 10 years later.

So this is an example where it's not just that they're benches, it's not just that

they're useful.

They're also a form of art.

They're also filled with this clear love and joy has been put into making them.

And so who could look at that?

It would take a real scrooge to look at that and say, don't do that.

But in general, do you think the right answer to government family to build sidewalks or

to put in benches is for citizens to build sidewalks and put in benches?

I love it.

I would say yes, certainly in this case.

I don't know if that's the answer for every single thing.

But these bench building parties are an act of love, you know, they are community building.

They're very simple to participate in.

And it's also, it's, it allows, you know, you to fight for your neighbors.

And I think that that's just such a beautiful thing.

And here's the kicker.

This is also very exciting.

So Metro Council just passed legislation this week on its first reading that now allows

the grill of benches to remain in place.

So it shows that our government isn't a monolith.

You know, it was in dot who was removing these benches.

The people made their voices heard and they've changed legislation.

I also was reading as I was preparing for this about this other interesting thing that

you guys have a national for DIY infrastructure, the tactical urbanism program that you guys

have.

What is that?

So we all know like cities are really great at long term plans.

You just talked about this, takes years for sidewalks.

But what's missing is the actual tactics to get things done.

So national has this partnership tactical urbanism.

It's a partnership with in dot and our civic design center.

It launched in 2024 and it allows regular people to apply with ideas of how to make our

city better.

Think like, you know, brighter sidewalks, crosswalks, traffic calming, better lighting under

interstate bridges, you know, all that sort of stuff.

But participants then receive $20,000 for their project.

But the difference between this and the bench building is that getting into the tactical

urbanism program requires an application and someone who can draw an architectural rendering

of what you want to do and lots and lots of hoops.

So has there been anything built in the tactical urbanism program that is a value or is it

useful or is beautiful?

Absolutely.

I mean, lots of bike parking has been added because of people pitching those ideas in

what used to be traffic lanes.

There's really bright crosswalks now that people have come out and painted.

They put in a few bulb outs, which is when they widen the curve around a corner.

So cars have to take their right turn slower and can clearly see the pedestrians waiting

to cross.

So it's really, they're kind of simple projects, but there are things that I know that aren't

the horizon.

We had Civic Design Center on our show who then told us about this program and really, we're

really trying to get people to pitch in their ideas here.

Do you have other cities have that tactical urbanism program if you've heard of that?

Well, all over Europe, Milan, New York City, even Fayetteville Arkansas launched a tactical

urbanism project way back in 2016.

So we are behind, but hopefully some of this new bench energy can help us catch up.

Shout out to Fayetteville.

A lot of the ideas on your city could be better are things that are European, actually.

It's like, they do this in Europe and now in American cities should try it.

One of my favorite all-time podcast episodes is from 99% Invisible and it was a segment

on Gorilla Signage, places where individual citizens put up signs because the world was

confusing or the signage that exists was no good.

And there's a famous example of an artist who put up a freeway sign on the I-5, which

is one of the busiest freeways in Los Angeles and hence in the world.

And he put up a freeway sign that was clearer about what you should do and he absolutely matched

to perfection, whatever the California Highway signage rules were and just put it up himself

and it went unnoticed for eight years.

He noticed that the sign was just citizen built and had never been approved by any authority.

He was not done by the truck and it was taken down for routine maintenance and when they

took it down for routine maintenance, they were like, we did not where did the sign come

from.

So it's one of these things where you hear a story like that or about the benches and

you're like, that is fantastic.

That is so great.

So useful.

A citizen has done something valuable.

They've created this beautiful bench.

Now people get to sit and it seems really good.

On the other hand, I do think you can imagine a world where citizens took infrastructure

entirely into their own hands and that would be, it would, it would be bad because citizens

actually can't, like you couldn't build a street.

You could not pave a street, probably you.

Nope.

You might be able to build a bench that was cute but you couldn't pave a street but someone

has to pave the street and that has to be qualified person.

But our citizens, there are citizens, what I liked about that 99% story is that that man

was an expert.

He really was so passionate about that and took the time and had his friends get involved

and put that thing up and it's in it probably saved lives.

So if we're immediately saying like, we don't want citizens to help out, we think we're

really missing out, it's about safety.

That's what it truly is about and the people here in Nashville who are doing, you know,

to Nashville with love, like in my opinion, it does feel like these like modern day superheroes.

Right.

They care so much about Nashville.

Right.

I have this amazing experience in my own neighborhood with a version of this.

So I lived across the street from a scrubby park here in Washington, DC, it has really

crummy kids playground on it but it was technically part of Rock Creek Park, it was attached

to Rock Creek Park which is a federal national park.

And our little stamp of park, it was actually known widely as mosquito park, it was so mosquito

infested and so unpleasant to be in and it was really neglected but some of my neighbors

started spending time in it and every Friday night they would gather and they would play

botchy and they would drink and it became the social hub of the neighborhood and they

in fact flattened an area, they swept it, they put like sort of logs, there's a barrier

and so now there's this lovely place to play botchy, there was a picnic table there and

they would drink and hang out and they were very welcoming to everybody and it was the

social hub of the neighborhood, it was a pure good and then the national park service

showed up and tore it up because it was an unauthorized use.

But finally after a whole bunch of back and forth and I presume like permitting and all

sorts of nonsense, they were allowed to rebuild the court months and months later.

And so it now exists but like what was the point of destroying it?

Like why did they bother?

Why can't they government know that like this, yes it may be gorilla and maybe do it yourself

but it's clearly offering a public benefit and it's very frustrating.

I mean that's insane, it's insane and I actually have another story for you about these

benches.

So picture this, a beautiful park, downtown Nashville, it's called church street park,

I used to go there as a kid, beautiful benches were there for all to sit on, 2011, they

took all the benches away, why?

Because they didn't want the unhoused people sitting there.

This is like right in the middle of downtown.

So not only unhoused people couldn't use them anymore but any of the people in all the

office buildings or it's actually right across the street from the downtown public library.

But March 30th this year, to Nashville with love took a team of a couple dozen wooden

benches to this park and reinstalled them exactly where the benches were missing and they hosted

a walking tour for people to hear about the history of the bench removal.

And also on March 30th that same day our downtown library opened again after being closed

for almost a year.

It was just this beautiful celebration right there at church street park.

So these two national with love bench builders are not deterred, they are going ahead, they're

going to keep going.

They're going ahead and I thank them for it.

What can listeners in other cities take away from our conversation about guerrilla benches

to make their city better?

Open your eyes, that's what I want people listening today.

Open your eyes when you're going about your city, how easily accessible is it for you?

Put yourself in somebody else's shoe or disabled community, how easily will they be able

to get around town?

I think it's important to talk to your neighbors because these changes are again so so simple

and they make such a huge difference.

Let's go to our word on the street segment Marie and I want to talk about Nashville tourism

which fascinates me.

So in most cities tourism brings in a wide range of people who are seeking to understand

and enjoy a really special place and appreciate it.

New York you go, you want to see shows, you want to go to great stores, you want to shop

there, you want to go to the great restaurants in DC, you come and see museums here or tour

the White House in Paris, you go to the Louvre.

And if you are local in one of those cities and I speak as a person who lives in a city

which is a very touristy city, if you're local it is definitely annoying to be around

mobs of tourists but they are fundamentally people who are seeking to appreciate your city

and it's truly special qualities and usually in a respectful kind of nine to five, maybe

nine to eight way.

But then there are a few cities and I would identify Nashville as being one of them, the

Paramount example in the US, Vegas, also Amsterdam is like this, where the goal of the

tourist is not exactly to appreciate the city but in fact to just have a riotous time,

late, noisily huge amounts of alcohol, it's not really about, you know, sure let's go

to a bar and listen to some country music or something.

But basically it's like let's get lit.

So it's much harder to love that tourist.

This is a long setup which is how do you as a nationalite find ways to love the tourists

when the tourists have come to cause chaos?

It's hard.

It's really hard.

Sometimes I'm embarrassed by it too because we're clearly having this conversation about

our theme park of intoxication but what I want to just have everybody know about Nashville

is that is just a tiny sliver of it.

That is like we've got bad PR going on I think because yes, it is being overrun by people

coming who really want to have a crazy good time.

But it is in an isolated part of town so you can avoid it if you want to.

And what's really special about Nashville is that people are coming from all over the

world not for that controlled chaos.

They are coming to music city for like you said country music and I love to travel.

I travel the world and I was the summer I was in Croatia on a tiny island talking to

this local who could honestly barely speak English but how much Croatian can you speak

baby?

Zero although the more drunk I got I was trying but this woman had been to Nashville and

her face lit up and the amount of joy that she had connecting with me about my hometown

and she just loves country music country music is known worldwide and so people are coming

to Nashville to support live music and so we got to hold on to that and that's what

I celebrate and that's what I love and so that's that is a big portion of the tour so it's

not all just bachelor bachelor party it's not all no it's no and one of my favorite things

to do nowadays too is actually to go downtown to some of these hotels because I've learned

about these happy hour specials that they have down there so I do get to talk to the

tourists and it is like it's people that are on their honeymoon or it's people celebrating

their 30th wedding anniversary and they've always wanted to come to Nashville.

They're people there for a convention and they're finally away from their family and they

get to go out for a night with their co-workers that they never get to do so you know you're

going to have a chaotic fun time but you know I think everybody should have that once

in their life at least.

Marisa Seal Anderson, host of CityCast Nashville, thank you for coming on your city could

be better.

You should listen to Marie every weekday on CityCast Nashville.

Come on to Nashville.

That's all for today's episode of your city could be better.

I'm your host David Plott's, our producers today where Lizzy Goldsmith Priyanka Tilday,

Marisa Seal Anderson and Whitney Pastrick are music is by Carl Christensen.

If you are enjoying the show, want to tell your friends, rate the show, leave us a review

wherever you get your podcasts, we'll be back next week with another conversation about

how your city could be better.

See you later y'all.