Your Music Taste is a "Window" into Your Brain (Here’s Why)

We're back. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode. We're continuing down on musical rabbit hole. Many people often send comments in about the wonderful theme tune that we've got that started this whole this whole podcast stick.

That was from Robert John Collins. His link is always in the description. Wherever that ends up when you're listening to this. So you can saw some of his wonderful tunes as well. He made this special for the podcast itself. There's it's an original piece and it's wonderful. I love it. Bob, how you doing? How's your week been? How's your world?

Yeah, it's good. I had something which I'd like to share which happened this week. I was on a phone call with some well a zoom call with someone. And they were they was actually complimentary about this what we're doing and everything. And then they said to me and it was a little bit, you know, one of those questions where you know, yeah, I know what you're going to, you know, is it?

Yeah, it's a question. So I said, yeah, it's fine. So is that really your son on there with you?

And then I then it's told me my son's name is Ben. And so they will likely assume you were my son. So I was very offended because that makes me very old.

Well, you heard it here first, family dramas unpacked with pulled back the East Enders curtain when I'm actually related.

Well, I mean, I'm proud for however briefly to have been an honorary member of the family.

So ladies and gentlemen, for tonight, I believe it's fair to say that you can learn more about a person in three songs than maybe in three hours of conversation to keep the literacy part going.

Not because music is a personality test for from it, but because are what it's more of a nervous system readout that way around every choice what someone plays when they play it what they skip what they repeat what they've stopped listening to.

It's it's it's neurological data that's that's very much dressed up as taste right the last time we looked at music last week.

We asked what it made us right this time.

We're very much going to go a little bit further to ask more what it reveals about us because once you understand the neuroscience underneath music stops being the background.

It becomes one of the most precise behavioral instruments available and most people are broadcasting on it constantly without knowing what what he thoughts on this.

Well, a couple of things really thinking about this after last week coming on the areas that to me music is the most honest thing people reveal about themselves without knowing it.

And another thing that I was going to is Moby the you know Jason Bonnefee and all that sort of thing.

And he actually and I got this through doing a search on the internet while I was researching he says show me your top 10 tracks and I'll show you your emotional architecture.

That's nice.

And I think yeah, and when you think of it, he works in the genre where they where they go through that the drop, which is the dopamine hit and everything.

So I think that he's a very intelligent guy actually well, you know, I'm sort of hold interview with him and it was very enlightening intelligence doesn't guarantee influence.

If you can't communicate and do so clearly your ideas die in translation productive communications teaches you how to understand behavior.

How to navigate tension and how to create real clarity and conversation.

You know manipulation.

Scripts just behavioral insight applied correctly.

So if you want fewer misunderstandings and more control in conversation.

Go to omniscient dash insights dot com forward slash pro comms or right here.

Absolutely. And I think specifically with with DJ's like a moby fat boy slim and you know a bunch of others apologies for the fans of the zone.

It's not my musical forte area with dance music, but I'm aware of those guys.

You really have to have and not just an appreciation for music, but an understanding of the different levels and how it seems together to create the moments that the audience is experienced.

But it raises something in terms of this idea of why why a song that breaks breaks its own pattern feels so satisfying.

And what that tells us about how the mind actually works because the brain isn't a passive receiver. It's it's a prediction engine.

You know, every time you hear music, your brain is is generating a continuous model of what comes next, what comes next, the next beat, the next called the next next resolution.

And something that I found out in in my research around this was a neuroscientist called David Huron or Huron.

I hate you are. Oh, and however, that's pronounced he has an I T P R A theory imagination, tension, prediction, reaction, appraisal.

And it maps exactly how the brain moves through musical expectation in real time.

Yeah, and I don't I don't know if you've seen people testing their their musical knowledge with the Whitney Houston cover of I will always love you, you know, I presume you know the song.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So there's there's the bit in the middle where it goes quiet just before the break when the drum hits up.

And she does the big the big note that the challenge is for people to hit the drum or tap their leg or stamp their feet or whatever it is on time.

Right.

Most people, including drummers and percussionists, most people fail.

And it's it's it's an interesting exposure of this dynamic, he comes from the moment the prediction is confirmed or violated.

It's it's why musicaltations a window into cognitive style, someone drawn to predictable structures repetitive beings familiar core progressions might have a nervous system that finds comfort in

confirmed expectation.

Someone who gravitates towards jazz, polyrhythm, dissonance might be seeking the tension of the unresolved.

And it's part of your job and you know yours by extension, one of the things that we that we have to do is sit in ambiguous information is not immediately trying to resolve the things that we're observing or assign it some hypothesis that rings true.

And these these kinds of comparisons are interesting to draw when you think about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you can sort of categorize people like you say some there's those who like predictability.

Yeah.

And then I suppose I'm trying to think of a word for the others, let's say novelty.

Yeah.

So and so the novelty people are the ones that like things that are different and you know where the structure isn't repeated the the pop song type.

And then the predictability ones are the ones who go for that because they it's like with the rhythms of their knowledge of music and how they expect it to be.

But I'll always remember Davey Bowie when he did the low album under things he did.

There's a song in it called Sound and Vision, which was a hit.

But he actually they I think it was Brian Eno who as you know I really admire.

I think he was behind that they cut it up, didn't they? And if you listen to it, it's all our sequence.

The focus mean at the end.

And it worked because it made people curious, but it was also it was if you to put it in the right order, it was a very just functional.

It was a great song, it was a functional pop song, but he made it very interesting by the the way it was cut up.

And and that would that was a pill I would I would suggest that may appeal to both the predictability and the novelty because it's not in a way it's it's put together, but it's predictable in that it's got the structure of a pop song.

Yeah, it's a really interesting thing and the more the more I look into this, the more because you talked about the Whitney Houston and it's a unique song because it's got a reverse drop, hasn't it?

Yes.

The drop is usually very close down and then comes back up again, but that's on the level.

And then you've got the right side of drumpy and then the the white in cat after it.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And like a great way to illustrate the our own individual neurological connection to music.

And I'm I'm biased in saying this because I am a drummer, but there was a series of videos that drummers on the internet would do called drummer controls the feeling or drummer controls or whatever it is.

Playing like different time signatures or different different basic rap poly rhythms play that samba over some standard punk stuff and like all of these kinds of creations slammed together to create different feelings and there's

there's a couple of Iron Maiden songs where you know like the standard but but but playing that playing the snare drum just slightly after that just slightly after the moment and it's it's it's almost it's almost painful to listen to.

But it made it made me think about whether whether what someone plays alone is different from what they play in public right like the the private playlist is is the uncensored one in that situation and the gap between the two.

That's where the real information lives you know people very often not all people of course but people very often create a kind of musical public identity carefully what they might what they might play at a dinner party yeah what they list as their favorite artists what they post that's a that's a performed taste doesn't mean that they don't like it that's just a foot that they are more comfortable in putting forwards.

It's it's it's social signaling filter through identity management the private playlist that's the thing that operates differently and like the best example I have a I have a fan of this was a guy who had he had a gym playlist he had a chores playlist he had a working playlist he had a driving playlist and they were all like sing your singular different collections like his workouts stuff.

Was I was the the rock and roll and the heavy kind of things driving was a little bit more contemplative and these these these comparisons these compartmentalized ideas of who he thought he wanted to connect to in each of these moments was was really was really indicative and he gives you a great insight into his projection of his own life through looking at like a four or five named playlists on his Spotify account it was.

It was very direct yeah i'm thinking about that what you just said it's like we have playlists for different just like we have behaviors we have masks for different situations and we you know you could say we have playlists and you know it's like it's prediction of what.

Environment you're going to be in and what would fit with it so you know fresh metal while you're having a meal isn't going to be as as good as like the rock in the background and so I don't I think like behavior you know and that's what we're here for is that it's not binary it's not you know it's this this and I think people.

Where we are social so we we do look to maybe fit in but we're also tribal aren't we yeah and you know there's certain music that we would we would see as fitting with another tribe that we want even if we admire some of it we want to be part of that reason it's part of it it's not our tribe yeah yeah you know I think.

That certainly and I think I mentioned it last time is I find it a bit of a coping mechanism and I say not just for for extremes but when I'm working I have to have music on you know and if I'm at home and my wife is around I have to keep moving around because she doesn't like it.

And she I think it's her comfort from the TV she likes to have the TV on more than I do and I think from that point of view it tells us a lot about people doesn't it tells us a lot about people without like I said earlier without them actually telling you it's a good non committed way or non intrusion I say not non committed or identifying what people are who people really are.

And but what I have found is that I I do in some of my trainings and I'm looking thinking back now I talk to people and I try to show people conversations and so we have what I don't do.

I don't role play works but so I just have a conversation with someone on one of my questions questions always is then is this well what type of music you like and someone just said to me I don't like music.

And you know and that's music avoidance it tells you a lot more about people than you know the night they can actually imagine because why not because we all listen to music we're hearing soup markets everywhere when they're put on the spot and ask that question what is it that's you know it's a defense mechanism isn't it.

I think so maybe it triggers bad memories that was my first thought yeah that maybe something so not that everybody has to like music but something so universally appreciated for somebody to go no I don't like any of it denies the possibility of any enjoyment of something that could come forward so it would be like saying.

You know if you have a bad piece of chocolate cake that you don't like all cake.

That's that's clearly a protective idea and like with this the the investigatory principle is is is simple you don't ask like you don't ask them what their favorite music is that's that's a leading question it's it's too closed.

You know it would be like what kind of music do you like what do you put on when no one's around you know these these kinds of you know what do you work out to what do you drive you know these these types of things that give you a more of a connection to the environment and the gap between those things if there is one

tells you something about the distance between who they present and who they are so this idea of the masks ringing true which relates to something that we were mentioning beforehand in terms of rhythm entrainment it's it's it's it's compliance that you as a human being don't necessarily know that you agreed to what what happens

numerologically when your heart beats synchronizes with a beat and like who's who's who's using that against you like if you think of the opening of songs like thriller

and again whether you whether you enjoyed the music or not you it starts with a but but but and then the footsteps go on time and then the footsteps come into the drum beat as well and it's all it's all collected with with this neural entrainment being the brains tendency to synchronize it's it's it's it's I think it's called oscillatory activity with your external rhythmic stimuli

stimuli it's all that the way that I like to prove that I can control minds and I can say that categorically is for most people when I go

is the truth clarity under pressure isn't natural it's trained axiom is a cognitive framework one that is designed to improve your reasoning to improve your memory and then the subsequent decision making that goes along with

that not theory focused not just inspirational quotes mental architecture so if you want to think clearly and do so when it counts go to omniscient dash insides dot com forwards less action or right there because in chaos the clear thinker wins

most people in their heads finish it off yeah that's the entrainment it's a it's a similar thing like a a visual form of the words isn't it don't think of a pink elephant everyone has you had to do to not think of it so it's a similar thing isn't it yeah yeah yeah

your brain is filling in the gaps which it does all the time all the time all the time and I think that's I would need to fact check this but it makes sense based on the science that we're talking about

it's it's why military marches work it's why protest chance are effective it's why football songs are are greater at rousing why certain retail environments might make you move faster without your notice

yeah but that it was it was the neuroscientist Nina Kraus showing that rhythmic and rhythmic entrainment is not metaphorical it's measurable it's physical and it's involuntary so from a behavioral intelligence standpoint the the tempo of any environment is an invisible instruction

like have you ever been walking behind someone that's walking too slow yeah it annoys everyone I've ever met it's it's an idea anyone who controls the rhythm of a space you know the proverbial music in a room the pacing of a speech the beat of a presentation whatever it is they are influencing nervous system state before a single word of content lands yeah yeah

yeah and on that you know closing off but other thing that I I you know got to learn through my research for this is the fact that lyrics and instrumental tracks will hit different processes so yeah

lyrics go through a verbal processing whereas instrument always more sensory I mean you know and I think that's the enduring leg white classical music has lived on because it's very emotional isn't it you know and you can think of the really bombastic and the last night the prongs and everything and then you know the music comes before the lyrics

and how that that is just a massive dopamine hit just there and then yeah and I suppose it is a type of a drop because music like all behavior and all all patterns that we have even the modern trance music or dance music if you look at it and to get back it would probably in structure it would mirror the rhythmic of classical music like that

you know the rule Britannia and whatever the other one is that they do and they all pop up and yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

it's called sense not sense and sensibility you can't remember it's called there's another one isn't there is another one yeah but the one that popped out to me when you mentioned classical was the film die hard I don't know if the action scenes would have been as profound

were it not for ode to joy I'd like I think I think it's better than I need fact checking on that but it's called ode to joy and like this there's several reasons as to why they pick that with the whole Japanese connection but that whole that whole rousing

yeah orchestral moment when the when the the door opens you know how someone uses music to regulate tells you how they handle distress when no one's watching yeah that's this if you use music to manage emotional state it's a sophisticated self regulation

yeah that's really all that is it's linked isn't it in your brain it's hippocampus memories and then the emotion attached to it I mean just before we go I'll say to you right to the Valkyrie's what do you think of the apocalypse now

leave you know and all those all those napalm and whatever right it's it's a great song and I'm there's I mean I can't communicate

it as well but there's a because I don't know what it's called it's mostly lyrics that I can't understand when the guy sings it and it's start it starts with a guitar riff it's it's on it's on every war movie it's it's in a apocalypse now it's that

brand new brand new that's how it opens but I'm not I'm not going to do it it's it's a great song it's the same thing right of the Valkyrie's the same thing I'm going to I'm going to keep myself

in the comments the only other song that I know from a pop list now is Buffalo Springfield and I can't remember what it's called pop look around or whatever

the NBA Vietnam song they play in it that's the one yeah well it's been enjoyable and I'm going to make a suggestion maybe next time we should look about now we know this how can we use this

to form better relationships with other people you know maybe do a little do another one of these on actually

implement in this alongside other skills to get better relationships to help people be the best versions of themselves

I love the sound of that and wherever I need to sign up for it sign me up let's let's do it so next next week folks

but let's let's get involved with some actionable methods that you can use this for until then my final words are going to be

a musical memory is episodic memory so that means it can be interrogated music triggers memories and ideas so you can interrogate it maybe

interrogates probably too strong a word you can talk to it you can interview it it's kind of it's kind of the point that I wanted to make Bob final thoughts

final thoughts from mobile again and he said that drop you love it's your reward system for in a tiny party

oh that's really it I'm gonna have to track that down so folks until then we shall love you and leave you don't forget to

like and subscribe to the podcast and we will see you again next time all right guys take it easy I'm off to arrive

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