1168: Christa O'Leary: How Psychology Transforms Client Communication and Satisfaction

Welcome to a well-designed business.

My name is Luanne Igarra and I'm so glad you found this podcast.

Together with my husband Vince and our partner Bill, we have grown our company Windowworks

from the ground up.

So I know and I understand the challenges you face in running your interior design business.

I also know that your talent alone isn't enough to ensure your success.

So on this podcast, we talk about strategies and practical steps to help you grow your business.

But make no mistake about it.

We have our share of fun here too, mixed in with those aha moments that I love so much.

This isn't fluff, nobody has time for that.

Whether you are a new interior designer or a seasoned designer, I am here to help you

create and to manage the kind of interior design firm that you dream of.

It's straight talk and it's action.

Are you ready?

Let's get started.

Hi, welcome to a well-designed business.

I am delighted to have Christo Aliri on the show with me today and I can't wait for you

to get to know her.

Christo is the founder and the CEO of Home in Harmony Designs, a distinguished design firm

that has been recognized as one of the top 50 design firms by designers today magazine.

She's been hailed as one to watch by Modern Luxury Magazine and her work has been featured

in publications like New England Home.

She also has a collaboration with our beloved Kravit Inc.

Most recently, her spectacular dining room in the 2025 Hamptons Cottage and Garden Showhouse

was an overwhelming Instagram favorite.

She's also shared her expertise as a keynote speaker at Highpoint Market and has appeared

on CBS, NBC and the Hallmark channel.

But Christo's real story is this beautiful intersection of her career in psychology and

therapy with her work as an interior designer.

Christo holds dual degrees in psychology and human development and as a foundation in

marriage and family therapy.

We've had a few designers over the years who also come from a background in psychology

on the podcast and we will link those episodes in the show notes for you because it really

does help to hear from their trained background how to infuse this in your work in a meaningful

way.

You know, there's something powerful about understanding the human experience, about

knowing how people think and move through their spaces.

Christo brings the step of understanding to every project she touches through what she

calls design inspired living.

It's not just about aesthetics, it's about creating spaces that foster emotional and

physical wellness, spaces that support the people who inhabit them.

And I think what you're going to hear in the conversation today is someone who really

sees people simple as that.

Someone who understands that design is ultimately about enhancing life, about setting up environments

that nurture and support the people living there beyond the aesthetics, right?

And this comes from her years in psychology and therapy, it's woven into everything she

does.

I'm excited for you to hear Christo's journey.

Now, before we get to it, I want to tell you this podcast today is brought to you by

June LaLoi.

You know LaLoi Rugs, they've been in the trade business for more than 20 years, delivering

to you personalized service and innovative design.

From the same family, June LaLoi builds on its sister's brands, expertise and expands

into total home furnishings with a curated selection that puts quality and value first.

You can browse furniture, rugs, lighting, wall art and more.

As a designer, you get a trade membership and you enjoy benefits, including exclusive

pricing, dedicated service.

You know, all of this is designed to make doing business with them a breeze.

Visit JuneLaLoi.com forward slash trade today.

That's J-O-O-N-L-O-L-O-I, back slash trade.

All right, let's meet Christo.

Hey, Christo, thanks so much for joining me on a well-designed business today.

Oh, Lillian, thank you so much for having me today.

So Christo, as I was getting to know you looking at your website and looking at some of the

videos that you have done and so forth.

I love this intersection of your career in psychology and therapy and all the things.

We've had a couple of few designers over the years and we'll link those in the show notes.

That also came from a background in psychology and it really does help inform your work

as a designer.

Even even everybody that doesn't have a background, they're like, I'm a therapist and a designer.

I can imagine how much stronger if you actually have some knowledge in this area, right?

Yeah, and I think it's not just about, I think when designers say that they are both a designer

and a psychotherapist, they're talking about just the interactions that they personally

have with the clients.

For me, it starts right at the beginning talking with the clients and really assessing

what their needs are as individuals, as families, where are their strong points,

where are their challenges, and how can we set up an environment to really help them live.

It sounds so cliche, but help them live their best life, how to create

the most harmonious home.

For me, it was 25 years ago when I stepped away from having people sit across from me

on the couch in psychology sessions.

All of a sudden, I started going into people's homes.

I felt like, wow, I'm actually seeing amazing changes for these people in their lives and

they're happier, and I'm making much better changes than when somebody sat across from

me on that couch, they walked out the door to the status quo of their life, the status

quo of their homes, and then they came back in to sit on the couch, and it was the same

conversation over and over and over again.

And again, maybe it was just because I wasn't great at being a psychologist.

I feel like, that's a possibility.

Funny.

Okay.

Well, you know, it's funny because I'm picturing it, right?

Like I listen, like I said, this is not my first conversation live in person at events

and so forth or on the podcast where it's literally, I would say in the last five years,

it's become obviously, you know, my brain just went like it always says, well, that was

the pandemic.

Like, when are we going to start, stop marking things by the pandemic, right?

I feel like, okay.

But that really did.

Like, there's no question that brought out the, I want to say the dynamics of how dysfunctional

a house could be, let alone the people in the house, right?

Right.

You know, and how the function and the aesthetic and the setup of the house does impact us

mentally, physically well-being.

And I remember, I don't remember whose conversation it was, but I remember the first time somebody

saying, you know, when your home is well designed, when you come into it, your body reacts

on a cellular level.

And I remember going, what?

Like, wait.

What?

Just because it's pretty, like, what, right?

But of course, that conversation has evolved so much in the last five years.

And we really understand.

And so when you talk about this, I think anybody that's listening to the show for a long

while, we get it.

We know that the home environment, the work environment, the physicality of it impacts

us mentally, emotionally, all the things.

But when you were just describing that, people coming into my office and sitting across from

me and having problems, real-life problems, and then going to their house and having problems

in their house and coming back, you know what I heard in my, what I was picturing in my

head is my one daughter has got a five and a seven-year-old.

And over the last three months, she has said, I've got to do something with the homework

station and the backpacks and the shoes and the coats and the things from the after-school

thing.

It's like, you know, we're in the kitchen and it's okay us and, you know, we want to

put it away to clear for dinner, but it's like, where does it go in the next morning?

And it was so funny because, Christa, we were standing there together a couple of months

ago.

And her dining room and her kitchen are one room.

So it's like a big open, just a huge table, and there's the island with the kitchen.

So there's a separate place, right?

And I looked at her and I said, I think we just need to let go of this and thinking of

it as a pretty dining room.

It's got a function.

Now, it could still be pretty.

To your point, you would probably make it pretty.

You kind of a pretty table, a pretty light, blah, blah, blah.

But like, this isn't going, there's no place to put this away.

We just have to figure out how to store it.

So because that's the thing, like, she could be going to a therapist every week on, it's

chaos after school, it's chaos at dinner, right?

But that's like a practical implication of it.

Am I on the right track?

You're absolutely, you're so on the right track.

And first of all, let's just rewind a little bit from what some of the things that you

said.

You know, I have such an appreciation that since 2020, people are understanding and are

becoming consciously aware that their home environments are impacting them because one

of the things that I always say is that our homes are either are recharging stations

or they deplete us, right?

You either walk into your home and you think, ah, I'm home.

And that lifts your energy, it gives you, you know, there's just positivity.

And or you walk into your home and there's the clutter in the corner or like your daughter,

there's chaos all over the dining room table.

And that drains your energy.

And the problem with that is it's sort of like a, what I call the pebble and the pond

effect, right?

The pebble and the pond is there, but it starts to ripple out and impact all other areas

of your life.

So you walk in and you see that clutter and the chaos and then you start to get frustrated.

And so what does it touch in your life?

Does it impact your relationships?

Does it impact your clear thinking?

It literally has a pebble upon impact and it hits every area of your life.

And I love the fact that you, you know, you're talking about your daughter specifically and

the homework and the chaos and ensues because one of the examples, and I know we'll get

into the questions around the designer's toolbox, but one of the examples I actually

give in terms of one of the tools in the toolbox is called relational layout.

And it's both from a micro level and a macro level.

And on a macro level, that's taking the whole house into consideration and ensuring that

it's set up to create harmony versus discord and unease.

And the example that I give is I had a client who had kids.

This is way back, Connecticut days when I lived in Connecticut, my kids were in elementary

school.

They're now in their 20s.

And my kids used to run through the door.

They plop all of their backpacks.

Everybody would sit at the island and there'd be a lot of chaos and lots of shit chatting,

right?

Because they're elementary school.

They want their snack.

They want to tell me about what happened to recess and in the cafeteria and, you know,

who did something mean to somebody and, you know, and then they're talking amongst themselves.

Or there's just a lot of, wow, right?

It's so fun.

Well, this client was having a very different experience when her same age kids got off

the bus.

They would come in, they'd sit at their island and the chaos would ensue, but she would

be trying to calm them down.

And all of a sudden, the dad who worked from home at a time when there wasn't entrepreneurs

maybe worked from home, but there wasn't a lot of home at that point.

Would stick his head out inevitably every single day and like tell everybody to quiet down

because he was on the phone.

And so he's upset with mom for not keeping the kids quiet.

The kids are upset with mom for telling them to be quiet.

The kids are upset with the dad because they're in this not the great situation.

Mom is upset with everybody, right?

So like, it doesn't feel good.

And then that ripples out.

It impacts the relationships, it just, it doesn't feel good.

So it's the silent dinner conversation.

Exactly.

Everybody's mad at everybody.

But that all goes back to the tool in the, in the designer's toolkit where it's the

relational layout, the on a macro level of the house.

So what we did was we reorganized where that dad's office was going to be so that it wasn't

it didn't make sense to have it next to the common area that was the family room in

the kitchen.

Right.

So I love the fact that, you know, your, your daughter's realizing that this doesn't

feel good to her.

And are there ways that that environment could be set up differently to help her and help

everybody in the house feel a little bit more harmonious?

Yeah.

Because she's like, I wanted out of the way when it's done.

But I don't want it so far out of the way that at 815 on the way to the bus, I'm like,

where the heck's your backpack?

Where's the folder?

Because you're not quite open up yet to own that, right?

Like when they're 13 and 10, it's like, look, like me, I'd be like, you don't have your

backpack, but I don't care.

You're getting on the bus.

You don't have your folder.

I don't, you, you figure out what you're going to say to your teacher because you're 13

years old.

Get yourself together, right?

Right.

It's kind of like you're still managing that, right?

And to your point, you know, when the kids come home, like I always call it the bewitching

hour, it's like that time from 4 o'clock to 6 o'clock, I'm like, yeah, I'm leaving.

Bye.

Because my brain is observing two things.

My brain is like, just what you said, they've come from a whole day of structure, they've

come from a whole day of rules.

Just let them let it out.

Yeah, but I'm like, yeah, I don't need to be here for that phase.

Look back when everybody's got their hat organized again.

But that's, that's good.

I mean, I like that because, so what you're saying is, as you work with your clients now

and you bring in this psychological background, and of course things like this, we can all

employ, right?

Not just ask what's pretty here, but what needs to function here and what's, like, I guess

what I'm hearing is not even so much what needs to function here.

Like, I'm thinking if somebody were interviewing Christy, it isn't so much, what, what do you

need to happen here?

It's more like what bothers you in this space, right?

What's, what's the thing that you're just like twice a week on OMG?

And she would have said, well, this is my kitchen, my dining room, but it's also central

headquarters for two little people, right?

Right.

Exactly.

It's one of those things with obviously as designers, we want to ensure that the spaces

that we're creating and designing are aesthetically beautiful, but I feel as though it's even

more important to ensure that we're setting up environments that really nurture and support

the people that live there.

And so when I walk through, I always ask for a tour.

Like even if I'm only doing a master bedroom for the couple or the family or the person,

I want a tour of their whole space so that I can hear them talking about their space.

I understand what brings them joy, what depletes them, what they want to see different, what

is, what are the goals in their overall life?

Like I want to understand the person from a holistic standpoint.

And I want to ensure that when I create and design that space for them, everywhere they

look, it brings a smile to their face.

Because I can understand the importance of that, I can get that because if somebody's

giving you a whole house tour, you know, they're saying in this room, I love this and maybe

they're like, I love this little cozy corner and this is where I love to read and I hear

what you're saying.

It's like, that's what they appreciate.

Am I should I be duplicating that in the bedroom, but maybe they're saying, but I love to

do where this sun is and you get to the bedroom and the set bedroom doesn't have that exposure.

So, okay, leave it off or whatever it is, but you're fact gathering.

And so, Christa, I know that you do a lot of speaking with at designer events, high point

and all the different things.

What are you, what are you finding?

Like you've got 25 plus years experience as a designer.

I don't know how many years experience as a psychologist, but when you are out in your

talking and you're doing your speeches and your presentations and you are speaking and

learning with designers about what they're going through, what do you think they're missing

the mark?

Like I think everybody, I'm going to tell you right now because everybody's like, oh,

I ask all my clients what they would like.

I ask all my clients like to really go through their lifestyle with me.

I know I haven't met a designer yet that doesn't believe they do this.

I can't know, I'm not saying to you that I know there's designers that think they do it

and don't do a good job.

It's not my realm to evaluate, but you are probably privy to the situations where

somebody thinks they're getting underneath the hood, but are they really, right?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And I think it's one of those things.

Like, when I'm giving my talk, you know, if I'm giving a keynote high point and I'm

going through the different aspects of the designer's toolbox, what helps me jar

a designer to awareness around what they don't know is saying, listen, when you go home

from high point market, I want you to be consciously aware of walking through that door and noticing

what your thoughts are about whether or not it feels good to be home or whether there's

a little bit of dread there or, you know, what is that?

And then as you walk through your space, again, notice what your unconscious mind is saying.

Because typically what happens is we're so habitual that we just go fast forward through

all the process and we don't, we're not thinking about it.

We're not reflecting.

We're not in touch actually with our, you know, we all think we're in touch with our

feelings, but we're really not.

So if you don't have that ability to notice your own thoughts through that process, which

I guarantee, probably 90% of the people don't, you're not going to have an awareness

around what your clients are really thinking.

Yeah.

That's so true.

Because there are your clients are going to say like, oh, I love the color blue because

I saw in somebody's, you know, on the internet or on HGTV or wherever and that's not,

blue might not support them because blue, let's say for somebody from a color psychology

standpoint, the color blue wouldn't be great for a couch potato because it's going to

calm them and it's going to make them want to sit more on the couch.

Wow.

Interesting.

So even though they like it and they're drawn to it, it might not be good for them.

Right.

Whereas somebody who's like always up and bang, bang, bang, bang, blu might be helpful.

Right.

Depending on the room though, right?

Right.

There's some rooms where we're fine being a lunatic, right?

And other rooms where we're supposed to calm down.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's all, it's like, it's, it's about where you are in the home.

It's about who you are as a person, you know, in certain situations, we might be more

dynamic in other situations, not when is that appropriate, when is it not, when does

it support you and when does it not?

What happens when it's obviously so many of our, you know, clients are part of a couple.

So, you know, like one is a couch potato and blue isn't a good thing for their family

room.

And the other one is a lunatic and blue is a good thing because they can sit still.

Is that, is that just wait like, Lewand, like, it's just not that basic.

Like, it blue isn't going to have that much of an impact stop, like, no, I do, I think

that blue has such a huge impact.

I mean, because again, if you go, if you dive deep into color psychology, it doesn't

just impact our psychological being, but it actually impacts our physiological being,

right?

So, the color red, for example, raises your heart rate, right?

So if you have somebody that has heart issues, like you, as a designer, you need to know

that information because you don't want to put red or orange or any of those types of

colors in their space.

Interesting.

You know, red, I love talking about the color red because it's so fascinating to me.

A lot of the restaurants picked up on the fact that red actually increases your hunger.

So, if I have an overweight middle-aged woman who came to me for design and she's like,

I really want a red dining room or I really want a red kitchen, I'm going to say, I don't

think it's a good idea.

There's a reason why, you know, if you think of some of those top, bigger, larger-scale

restaurant chains, right?

So, I don't know, Chick-fil-A, McDonald's, Chili's, right?

Well, there used to be friendlies.

They all incorporate red in their color scheme inside the restaurant because it encourages

hunger.

Wow.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

So, that's the depth, like, that's the depth and the layers that a typical designer even

know they might say that they really get to know their client.

Like unless you have these layers of knowledge, you're only going to be at the surface.

Yeah.

So, the thing about it is, you're doing these conversations about this.

You wrote a book about it.

You have a course that you do, the designer toolbox course that you do about it.

Like, why, I guess, you're actively doing it with your own clients.

What's the passion that connects you that you want other designers to understand it?

Is it just a psychology background?

It's, you know, it's in your DNA to care for the whole planet and so this is how to

do it.

You know, it's, it's because I think, I know, I know with business, put it this way.

I know with business, people will look at me and say, I get that and I'm like, I can

tell you that you don't.

Like, I, you know what I'm saying?

So, what I hear you're doing is you're like, you're like, I do this, you're like, yeah,

but you don't really.

Like, so, what's the deal about it with you?

Like, why, why am I so passionate about it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, one of the questionnaires that you had sent over if we had time to talk about, like,

random things was if you had a magic wand or you could know, if you could be any superhero,

what would it be and what would you do, right?

And I said to my husband, because I was reading through all the questions we were getting

a good giggle and I'm like, I think I'd be like the fairy godmother with a wand and I would

make everybody healthy like I think that.

So I do have a passion around, around that, right?

I want to help.

I want to heal.

I want people, that's, that really is what drives me and drives me in my business.

And coming from a Western educated background in psychology, we were taught, do no harm.

And I truly believe that when decorators, we'll call them decorators, go into homes and

they don't know what they're doing, they actually can do harm.

So I feel, and I also, it's, we have a joke in our town that the moms drop their kiddos

off at preschool and all of a sudden they have like a few hours of free time every day

during the week.

Yes.

And they decide to go into one of two professions.

They either become a realtor or a designer, right?

They had, they don't know what they're doing and, and I talked to an editor, editor, actually

traditional home magazine, she and I were laughing about this because she agrees with me.

And she's like, they're just glorified shoppers.

Like they're, they're good at shopping and they get ideas off the internet and then they

go and they shop.

And so for me, I'm like, all right, if they're going to go into, we can't stop them from going

into home.

So how can we educate them and, and take it to the next level?

So they, they actually have a framework around going into somebody's home without doing

harm.

Yeah.

Well, and I think what it is is, I think what I'm hearing, what you're saying, Christa,

is there is a distinction between objectively creating a, an aesthetically beautiful space and

a space that is actually designed for wellness and enhancing that person's well-being at

the physical and emotional, like, and cellular level, right?

Absolutely.

And with that distinction in mind, just because you have created that well-designed space,

like it's kind of a disservice to the industry too, in a sense, right?

It's like it takes it away from the level of professionalism that, that is the thing

that commands the fees, that is the thing that says why this designer in your area is

more suited to designing your space than your best friend who has good taste, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, I can't tell you the amount of times that we, and this is a thing where we get clients

who we have to fix the environment.

And I've had everything from an environment that looks pretty, like fun and funky, but

the people that live there all of a sudden are saying, like this, for some reason or

another, it's not working, like you feel right?

I had a mom who came to me in tears and her, she had a designer who had come in and did

the whole house, including her son's rooms.

And they were having lots of trouble with their son who had ADD and ADHD and he was very

aggressive with the neighborhood kids, he'd gotten a few fights and he was always the one

getting in trouble.

So she brought me in and she's like, can you just like assess in your perspective, is there

something going on?

Like what do you think?

So she brought me up to this child's room and I hid you not.

It was bright red and there was a huge, I forget what they're called, fat sticker thing.

You know, thinking I know anything about pop culture, do you?

It was a big sticker of his favorite football player because he was a football player and throwing

a pass.

And so the amount of like activity, activity, energy, frenetic energy in that space, it

was like, there is no chance this kid is going to calm down.

So we redid the space, we showed hollers that would be appropriate, textures that would

be appropriate, things that could just decompress.

And the mom called me in tears and was like, this is amazing because he has so settled

down.

We haven't had any issues, no trips to the principal, no fights in the neighborhood.

So it works.

Well, and you know what I'm hearing is, is whole day is pressure and stress and activity

and fighting his, the own chemicals in his brain, right?

Because the world wants him to go one road and he's down a different road.

And then he comes home and it's like, you know, like plugging it in as opposed to unplugging

it, right?

Right.

And by the way, that that room, the way it was could have worn, could have won a reward,

it could have been the most creative, wonderful, like, yay room ever.

But it was cool.

It was really cool.

I mean, even as a decor designer, I'm, I go in and I'm like, oh, this is cool, nicely done.

So the thing is what it occurs to me is, is that I, like I, I'm relating this on

almost, because look, we have a lot of self-taught designers that are, or magnificent.

There's, you know, like, I don't knock the school of hard knocks.

I, I don't, but I think what you're saying is, there's another layer that even if you're

self-taught, go self-taught yourself this part, it's like, don't, don't just learn the

color wheel, learn what the color wheel means and learn how the color wheel affects you

as opposed to just which colors go together and which colors don't.

I think that's what you're kind of saying.

And it reminds me, we just had a conversation over the weekend about, you know, the well-intentioned

dad that coaches baseball, you know, it's like, you know, it's so funny, because my husband

happens to be an exceptional baseball coach.

I mean, he coached all the way to college level and I don't think he's had a team from

T-Ball to college that didn't make it to the championship round.

I mean, he's ridiculous and I don't care if it was girls, boys, five-year-olds, fifteen

-year-olds, twenty-year-olds.

It's like, I literally, like, was saying during this conversation, we were with other people

and I said, have you ever had a team that didn't go to the finals?

And he just looked at me and he's like, I don't know, he said, I don't think you have,

like I really don't think you have, right?

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

It is amazing, right?

And the thing about it is is, I've always understood very clearly, from the time I started

being side by side with him when he would coach our kids when they were younger and watching

him.

And one gentleman in particular was earnest and a good dad and he was the coach of this

team for like the past two years and now we come, we move to town, our daughter's going

to be on the team and now my husband volunteers to coach and I'm going to be the mom with

the books and, you know, email everybody about what time the practices are and stuff.

And I remember watching, because this guy is a good guy, but it was his team.

And we get to the first practices and I'm like, even I know he was telling the wrong

mechanics for how to hit the ball, right?

And I'm like, how is Vinny going to handle this, you know?

And so little by little and that's, you know, his superpower, he's super kind and he just,

but this gentleman literally within three weeks was like, okay, we're all going to learn

from you, Vin.

Like I'm going to relearn how to do it.

We're going to teach the kids how to do it, right?

And the thing is what it reminds me of is just because you can do a thing doesn't mean

you can teach a thing.

And in this case, just because you can make a room beautiful doesn't mean it's a beautiful

room that supports wellness.

And I think that's the distinction you're making, right?

Absolutely.

And I'd even go farther than that and say, I think it's, I'm one of those, I believe

in perpetually learning.

Yeah.

You can only get better with the more I learn.

And so, you know, again, another one of your questions was about books.

And I'm like, I have an insatiable appetite to learn about business and I've been doing

this for 25 years.

I have so many different aspects of my business, but I want to keep learning and understanding.

You know, as I said to you, you know, I listen to your podcast, especially when I'm like,

okay, I need to be reinvigorated.

So, I think that that's important too.

But, you know, like, again, I think that you don't know what you don't know.

Yes.

Right?

And so, if you have, you know, there are a lot of people out there and I'm going to ask

a question and, you know, be truthful with yourself.

If you're a designer and you're going into people's homes, do you know how much space

there needs to be between, let's say, a wall and a couch, so that a person feels comfortable

walking through that and they don't feel constricted, it is that number.

Like, those are the things that really matter when you're designing a room.

Yeah.

And the thing is, if you're not...

And it's 36 inches, just so we're starting to do that.

Okay.

And the thing about it is, if you're not educated in principles like this, in

knowledge like this, you can do it by feel and it may or may not be right.

And that's the point.

It can end up looking sort of light, right?

But if it's 26 or 28 inches, what you're saying is, physically comfortable for the whole

family functioning there is walking through isn't the same as feeling okay walking through.

Exactly.

Interesting.

Interesting.

You know, because we're all innately wired as humans, we're innately wired and it goes

back to like prehistoric times and we can't disengage from that.

That's part of our subconscious, so it's important to take those and use it to the benefit

because all of a sudden it turns your design from being like aesthetically pleasing design

to all of a sudden you have raving design clients who are going to talk about how good

they make them feel in their space.

And then when they have people come over, the people are noticing like, wait a second,

why does this feel so good?

I like being here.

Yeah.

I mean, that's how honestly, like when I was transitioning and starting to really learn

and understand design and taking all the classes that I was taking, people would come

into my home and they'd be like, okay, I don't get this.

You have four children, but your home feels so calm and it feels so good to be here.

Can you come over and do whatever you did here or chew, chew my own magic bear, but you

feel it.

It's like, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My daughter needs you.

Poor thing.

It's just like, you won't get it.

Those kids are just bouncing on.

I got it.

I got it.

They're nuts.

They're absolutely nuts.

Okay.

And I guess, you know, the bottom line on this is, this isn't an indictment if you're not

a degreeed interior designer because you could be ignoring these principles, whether you

have a four year or two year degree or not.

So it's not just an uneducated designer.

It's just, did you take the time, are you taking the time to pay attention to this part

of the education, whether it's through formal or through your course or through whatever

it is because that is the next level of leveling your work up is what I'm hearing.

Yeah.

And I just, I also think it's so important about doing no harm.

Yeah.

I think it's so important.

Like that designer who created that red bedroom for that little boy didn't, I mean,

he, she, she or he was trying to do something incredible and made something that was really

awesome and unique for that child and all of his interests, right?

So yeah, did that designer understand that that was an interest and she went, played all

in on that?

Absolutely.

But she was doing harm and she didn't know it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the truth.

Didn't know it had no idea because not, you know, didn't do the, the deeper exploration

and then connect it to how she could or he could impact what they learned in that deeper

exploration, right?

Yeah.

Crazy.

So now when you do your design toolbox thing, it's a, you have like the clutter cleaning

challenge, which is like kind of like, let's get to know, Krista and see what she's got

here, right?

And they can do that and we'll put links in the show notes to all the things that you

want us to do.

But when they ultimately get to this designer toolbox situation, that's live.

It's not just a download that's you working, whether it's one to one or you and group,

one to group, a group coaching situation.

And you're now walking designers through the different areas of aspect that you know

through your dual education are the ways that they can differentiate themselves and also

do know harm, right?

Absolutely.

And I think it's also, it's also teaching them how to communicate with clients.

Because I've had clients who, this was probably 20 years ago and I had this client.

He was a CEO of a radiology, national radiology company.

So I walk and he greets me and he says, just so we're clear.

I don't want you to do any of that feng shui stuff.

I just want you to design the house.

He had seen my work in a designer showhouse so he was like, I absolutely don't want any

unintended benefits from feng shui.

So I remember being like, well, I'm not going to like close my eyes to the lens that I

assess an environment through.

I've got a, like that tool that I use.

But then I realized I'm like, oh, he isn't esoteric whatsoever, you know, at the time

I'd written a book for, hey, house, and there are west coasts, they're very esoteric.

I'm like, oh, that's, I'm not dealing with that population right now.

I'm dealing with somebody who's very concrete and scientific and so then I started, I realized,

okay, I need to talk to him in his language, which then allowed the whole process of interacting

with clients.

It made everything so much easier and it was so much easier to get a yes from clients

when talking to them through the language that they understood.

Yeah.

Well, and you know what?

That is so important, right?

And I mean, that sales 101, right, on, on, you know, on a very basic level.

We've talked about it a thousand times.

If you're dealing with an analytical type, you better be talking about the brackets and

if you're dealing with, you know, like a, a driver, you better be talking to me about

price before I even know what the heck I'm buying, like, what price are you going to?

It's so funny because when you said he said just to be clear, I'm like, whoa, that's

like my life, like just to be clear, just to be clear, I wasn't even actually in the

door yet.

I was still on the door.

It's just to be clear.

And I was like, oh gosh, what if I got myself in too?

Oh my god, that's so, so that I would do to somebody just to be clear and I was young.

I was probably like 26.

That's so funny.

But I think that's funny because, you know, it's good for you that you were, and probably

your background really helped there, especially if since you were young, to not just freeze,

right?

Like, not just stop at, like, because you, what you're describing is you learn that he didn't

really care if it's fung's way or not.

He just wants you to deal in concrete things.

Don't talk, talking to me about, woo, woo, I have to put this here and have this

water thing here because, you know, I'm saying, because even like, I'm a very practical

person and I'm like, I'll take all the hidden benefits you can give me, plant them all

in there.

However you get them, it's fine.

They're working on my subconscious.

Let's go.

Exactly.

That's so funny.

That's so good.

Well, I have a question for you.

So first of all, I can put in the show notes how somebody can get information, but is

there anything before I change a subject?

Is there anything about the designer toolbox that you want to say or they should know that

they won't get from whatever link I put in the show notes for you?

No, I mean, I just would say that I think it's an important way for designers to be able

to assess spaces that is very different than what designers are taught in design school.

And I think that it really, it benefits, it benefits, it takes your business to a whole

another depth.

And I feel as though it really allows you to shine as an expert, it's allowed me to shine

as an expert that is so, I don't know, so far advanced, but like it just distinguishes

you from other people because you have such a depth and breadth that most designers

are most glorified shoppers, don't have.

Well, and again, I mean, just to bring it back to the conversation about Vin, you know,

he coached that one girls team that year and this gentleman who saw firsthand the transformation

of these 12, 13 year old girls that could in place off ball and could by the end, now

all the other coaches in the league in the town knew, you know, and it was like, hey, Vin,

you stop by our practice and teach us a little.

So you just described that same thing, you start, the knowledge starts to speak for itself,

the expertise starts to speak for itself, the work speaks for itself because it isn't

just beautiful, it's also this added later of benefit.

So I think that it makes perfect sense to me.

Now before I let you go, I can't not have a 25 year smart lady interior designer on

my podcast and not ask you, and this is a surprise, so you might need a hot minute to think

about it.

No, no, no, no, right, but it's just, you know, outside of this particular realm, outside

of this realm, but like flat out business, you know, operations, you know, finances,

anything that you would just say, yes, sure, wish I knew this 25 years ago, or this was

a thing that in the beginning was tough for me, but when I mastered it, it made, like

my one of my things is, you know, it's like, I'm big for, I'll do the hard things because

I want everything else to be easy, right?

So is there something that comes to your mind, Krista, that you would, outside of this

particular lane, say to a designer that's one, three, five years in business, and you're

just like, hey, I just got to say, la la la, anything come to mind?

I think it's something actually that you talk about all the time.

I think it's so important to have process in place, and I actually say that from a standpoint

where we've had certain processes in place for 20 years, and then in the last five years,

we've really seen a shift since I hate to say the pandemic that we've really seen a shift

in the design industry as a whole, and the different things that consumers have the ability

to have access to.

So we are in the process now of re-evaluating all of those.

So again, thank goodness, I come from a growth mindset that says, okay, how can I learn,

how can I better us?

It's a continual process for me, and that's, I think, why I've been able to grow from

not only doing design, but also having a store front and having an online store and writing

an international bestseller and being on stages and speaking and being on TV and speaking

and doing all of those things is because I'm continually trying to evolve and grow the

business because I like learning and understanding business in general.

I think it's cool, and it's like, okay, how can we continue to better ourselves?

I love it.

So what I'm hearing in that is aside from all the things that you do to pay attention

and uplevel your skill set as a designer, you don't ignore that same building and upleveling

process as a business owner.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I love that.

I mean, it's two different parts of the brain, right?

And if you're going to succeed in this business, unfortunately, you have to have the ability

really to do a bit of both.

I mean, obviously, you can outsource, and I recommend outsourcing when it's beyond

you.

Like, we outsource like, I don't love numbers, that's not my thing.

So we outsource a lot of that, that said though, I'm the CEO of my business, so I have

to have some understanding of what's going on, and I have to have my finger on it a little

bit.

So I just think continue, I think having that growth mindset and being willing to learn

whether it's in the business end of things, whether it's in the design end of things,

having a growth mindset is invaluable.

And for clarity, a growth mindset is personal growth mindset.

You know, not necessarily, I want my team to be 20 people.

It's a growth mindset of getting better and doing a different version of yourself, a

better version of yourself year to year, right?

Absolutely.

And not saying, okay, I'm concretely this, and it has to be my way or the highway.

It's saying, okay, there's a lot out there that I don't know.

So I mean, I always go back to that saying, you don't know what you don't know, right?

And there's so much.

I still, I'm sure, so much I don't know.

That's right.

And I'm going to continue to learn.

Which makes it exciting.

And that's why then I tune into you and say, okay, what else do I need?

There's a little reason why I'm like going to hit my tenure anniversary in a couple of

months, as we're talking to right now, thank you, and more than 1400 episodes between

the two podcasts.

And you know, my husband looks at me, he's like, I don't know how you still show up and

do it.

I'm like, because I learned something every time, like the conversation, like I literally

learn at least one tiny little thing.

Like one day, sometimes I learn a whole lot of things, sometimes I learn a tiny thing.

But so what did you learn today?

Well, I really did learn the first of all, I learned that with clarity, with clarity, see,

I've heard it before.

And that's why I tell people, listen to the darn show over and over again, the same episodes

because you hear what you're ready to hear when you're ready to hear it.

What I heard with clarity today is that you can really create, and aesthetically, exceptionally,

like nobody would not know you're an L Decor, AD 100 designer, and it could not be the

ideal room for that client.

It could be a show place, it could be a showhouse room, but if you don't really get deep into

what that client needs on a psychological, emotional level, a beautiful room is not

enough.

It's too much.

I'm hearing you, I'm telling you what I learned, it's too much, I spent $250,000 on that

room, and it's not making me feel great, and I didn't know that because everything you

showed me was beautiful, like I feel like my room is in your hands.

And I'm going to answer your questions, but if you don't ask the question and you don't

get the answer, I don't, I don't know what I don't know, I don't know that you needed

to know another thing.

So I'm needing you as a professional to know these darn things to get it out of me, right?

Yes.

And we've talked around it, we've talked around the value of it, but today I heard the

responsibility part of it, and you know where it also reminds me of, like I have sold

window treatments for 40 years, so on a very one item in a room level, it's no different

than if I walk in and I say, hey, what kind of, you know, window treatments you want,

you're like, I'd like to have shears, and I'm like, great, shears will look great here.

Here's a loose site, row out, here's a beautiful crab, a fabric, let's do it.

And then later I find out, like you work nights and you need to sleep during the day,

and I never asked you, do you need the room dark?

It's like, like that's just, that's on me as the window treatment person, to not just

go, to not take it to the next now, a whole lot deeper for you guys.

Like it's, I can get there in three questions, but what I'm hearing is your advocacy for

the responsibility of, and I, here's the other thing I learn, I should be doing all this

in the outro, but I'm going to keep doing it.

Here's the other thing I learn.

Just having a list of questions, if you're not sure why you're asking them and what you're

after, it's useless, right?

That's deep work on a designer's part.

What does this, like that example with that, that young boy, it's like, maybe there was

some flip conversation over coffee one day, like, oh my goodness, he's ADHD, drives me

to drink, he's my trouble kid, and I love him like life because his energy is so amazing.

But you see, somebody like you is going to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, what does he like

when he comes home?

What happens during the day?

Where is somebody else uneducated, not paying attention, not having heard this episode

might be like, yeah, I have made DHT too, and just keep it rolling, right?

Absolutely.

It's a different level of cognitive understanding.

So thank you for teaching that to me, Christa.

Well, thank you for having me.

No, I appreciate this.

This was a great conversation.

Thank you so much.

Oh, Louis Ann, it was a pleasure being here, and I'm honored to be one of your 14 hundred

wow.

It's amazing.

Okay, before I share my observations on this conversation, I have some good news

for you.

If you loved getting to know Christa, you can meet her in real life.

Christa is one of the speakers at the East Massachusetts chapter of the WCA.

The event that is happening at the Boston Design Center in the Kravitz showroom this March

11th, 2026.

Yes, how fun would it be to meet all of the WCA members from the area?

Many who have been on this podcast or window treatments for profit, as well as your fellow

designer colleagues.

And I mean, you know, the benefit of seeing the beautiful Kravitz showroom.

There's a win, win, win in my mind to learn more about this event and to RSVP.

Please go to wcaa.org forward slash membership drive and look for the Eastern Massachusetts

event.

By the way, this whole week, March 9th, 2026, we, the WCA, you know, I'm the president

of the national organization, right?

We are having live events like this all over the country.

I'm going to be in Atlanta on March 10th.

And then I'm going to be at the Pennsylvania chapter, New Jersey, Pennsylvania chapter on

March 11th.

You heard that right?

We have events in Chicago, Indianapolis, Raleigh, Charlotte.

We even have a virtual event as well.

So all of the information is there at the wcaa.org slash membership drive landing page.

Okay.

We've got designer.

Erika Ward is going to be with me in Atlanta, Dana Fowler is going to be there with me.

Michelle Williams is going to be with me there.

All kinds of great events.

So please go check it out.

I think you and your business will thank you.

Okay.

Now, getting back to Krista, I know it strikes me most about the story is how her background

and psychology really does shape the way she approaches design.

You know, we say all the time, we expect you to create beautiful spaces.

And I know that a lot of you talk about understanding how people live and work in them.

This is a gift that you have.

If you're taking it seriously, it is definitely a gift.

And I love that that Krista brought this additional deeper level of understanding to it,

right?

You know, this is an incredible thing to have in a toolbox when you are communicating

with clients and assessing spaces.

This is something that goes beyond what your design education has taught you.

And when she talked about having to speak to that CEO in his language and not in designer

Feng Shui language, right?

That reminded me of Sharon Sherman's episode here on this podcast where she explained

the four personality types, fire, air, earth, and water.

And how important it is to not only understand your own personality type, but then to try

and assess the personality type of your client.

Now, what I had said in that episode is that if you've had a recent interaction with

a client that went negatively, listen to the show and think about the different personalities

and try to identify what they are.

Probably you might have handled it from your personality.

And that's why problems escalate because you're handling it from your perspective as opposed

to the way that they needed handled so it can be heard.

This is sales 101, right?

And Christa's psychology background gives her that advantage from the very beginning

with the client, jackpot, right?

I also love that Christa said about really learning your clients and what she means is

really learning them, understanding their health issues, any challenges they're facing,

what makes them feel good, what drains them.

Because when you know these things, you can then design their space to make them feel

how they want to feel.

This is powerful.

That goes beyond picking the right sofa or the right pink color, right?

It's picking and designing and a vitamin that supports them that makes their life better

and tangible ways.

And that pebble in the pond effect that she talked about, how the spaces we create, that

you create, you know, ripple out and affect everything in your client's lives.

When she talked about coming home from high point market and being consciously aware of

walking through your door and noticing what your thoughts are about whether it feel good

to be home to you or whether there's a little bit of dread there, that hit me, right?

Our homes should welcome us and they should feel good.

And as designers, you have the power to create that for all of the rest of us.

Thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Now, if you want to learn more about Christa's approach, she has a designer's toolbox that

helps you communicate with clients and assess spaces and ways that are different from what

your design education, whether that's a formal school or school of hard knocks, might

have taught you.

Head over to her website at home in harmonydesigns.com to check it out.

We will also have the link in the show notes.

Christa, thank you, thank you for being here.

I loved our conversation.

I'm glad we got to spend this time together.

I'm so glad that I got you hooked up with the WCAA there in Eastern Massachusetts and

I'm sure that it's going to be an outstanding day.

And thank you for showing up and listening.

I appreciate you.

It's a sight to be excellent.

Thank you for joining me today.

This podcast is a production of Luan Nigara Inc.

If you want to know more about me, my books, or Luan University, go to LuanNigara.com.

And if you are interested in having window works help you with your next window treatment

or awning project in the New York, New Jersey metro area, go to windowworksnj.com to learn

more.

Have an excellent day.