128: Red Light Therapy Protocol for Knee Pain and Recovery with Forrest Smith CEO of Kineon

Most people think of a knee injury as a knee problem. You tear something, you rehab it, you move on. But the science tells a very different story — one where a single traumatic injury quietly drives cartilage degradation, cardiovascular impairment, and systemic inflammation for decades after the initial damage has "healed."

I got a firsthand look at this when an MRI revealed two meniscus tears, a split MCL, and early-onset osteoarthritis in my left knee. That last one was humbling. I always assumed osteoarthritis happened to other people — older, less active people. Not someone who squats heavy and trains consistently.

In this episode, Forrest Smith — CEO and Co-founder of Kineon Labs, a health technology company specializing in targeted red light and laser therapy devices — returns for his third appearance on the podcast. And the picture he paints of what happens inside an injured joint long after the rehab is over is sobering.

For example, the NFL tracked over 3,500 players who'd returned to competition after knee injuries and found chronic inflammation still present 10 to 20 years later, despite world-class rehab. 

Notably, the quads on the players' injured side ran one to two degrees colder, a sign of impaired cardiovascular delivery. And the risk of major cardiovascular events jumped by 50% – not because of the original injury, but because of inflammation that never resolved.

That's the cycle most people don't know they're stuck in. And it's where laser-based photobiomodulation changes the equation. Targeted 808nm lasers can drop inflammatory markers like TNF-alpha and IL-6 by 70 to 85% within days.

Once that chronic degradation slows down, chondroblasts — the fast-growing front end of cartilage — can actually proliferate and begin rebuilding the extracellular matrix. Slow the destruction on one side, accelerate the biology on the other. That's what "regrowing cartilage" actually means.

Penetration depth is what makes lasers fundamentally different from LEDs. At five to seven centimeters of reach, you're dosing 10 to 100 times more tissue volume than a surface-level panel can touch.

Then there's the other side of this that almost nobody talks about: the ibuprofen your doctor hands you after surgery. Research shows that 90 days of use increases heart attack risk by 48%, heart failure by 35%, and major coronary events by 75% — while actively impairing the collagen and fibroblast function your body needs to heal. It's doing the exact opposite of what most people assume.

If you've ever dealt with a joint injury, chronic inflammation, or just assumed over-the-counter painkillers were harmless, this one's worth your time.

About Forrest Smith:
Co-Founder and CEO of Kineon, a health-tech leader who spent 18 years in China building hardware startups and mastering the local supply chain. A lifelong athlete and CrossFit enthusiast, he founded Kineon after developing a portable, medical-grade laser device to treat his own chronic knee pain. 

Website: https://kineon.io/blogs/authors/forrest-smith 

[Discount Code]

Use code MKUMMERMOVE for 10% off the Kineon Move+ Pro: 

https://michaelkummer.com/go/kineon

Learn more:

Kineon Move+ Pro Review: https://michaelkummer.com/kineon-move-plus-review/

Benefits of Red Light Therapy for Joint Pain and Arthritis: https://michaelkummer.com/red-light-therapy-for-joints/ 

Thank you to this episode's sponsor, Peluva!

Peluva makes minimalist shoes to support optimal foot, back and joint health. I started wearing Peluvas several months ago, and I haven't worn regular shoes since. I encourage you to consider trading your sneakers or training shoes for a pair of Peluvas, and then watch the health of your feet and lower back improve while reducing your risk of injury. 

To learn more about why I love Peluva barefoot shoes, check out my in-depth review: https://michaelkummer.com/health/peluva-review/ 

And use code MICHAEL to get 10% off your first pair: https://michaelkummer.com/go/peluva 

In this episode:

00:00 Intro

00:42 Mk's knee MRI (meniscus, MCL, osteoarthritis)

03:42 Traumatic knee damage, synovial capsule & acute vs chronic inflammation

06:42 Can you regrow cartilage? 

08:11 Hidden systemic effects: Cardiovascular impairment from chronic joint inflammation

09:50 Post-surgery recovery + the NSAID dilemma 

12:28 NSAIDs: Cardiovascular risk & slower tissue repair 

16:36 Kineon Move+ Pro knee protocol

17:59 Placement tips

20:36 Penetration depth

21:41 Hamstring strain case study 

26:55 The future: Brain & gut photobiomodulation 

33:20 Final thoughts

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[Medical Disclaimer]

The information shared on this video is for educational purposes only, is not a substitute for the advice of medical doctors or registered dietitians (which I am not) and should not be used to prevent, diagnose, or treat any condition. Consult with a physician before starting a fitness regimen, adding supplements to your diet, or making other changes that may affect your medications, treatment plan, or overall health.

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I earn affiliate commissions from some of the brands and products I review on this channel. While that doesn't change my editorial integrity, it helps make this channel happen. If you'd like to support me, please use my affiliate links or discount code.

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