25 years on from 9/11

0:00This is a global production. This is LVC from Global, leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Good morning, three minutes after 7 Friday, September the 11th. A few home truths from the Home Secretary to police forces, as it is feared, there could be more demonstrations about those boat crossings. We'll spell out exactly what she said and try and work out what the police reaction might be. In other news, 9-11 Survivor Bill McMahan told me the human reaction to the events was different to how it's actually portrayed in the movies. There was no yelling and screaming or crying or panicking or anything. Everybody just kind of looked at each other like what in the hell is going on? The assisted dime bill returns to the house, but what are its chances of success? Speaking in July, Prime Minister Andy Burnham indicated he would abstain from the key vote.

1:00I think there's something that needs to happen first. The fixing of the funding of palliative care and social care. Is it fair to suggest that when Hamas and Iran are saying you're doing the right thing, you might have got it wrong. They're praising Ed Miliband for those sanctions. We'll look at that in more detail. And on a day, of course, when many of pause and reflect on what went on with aircraft, they're still picking up the pieces from that glitch three days ago in Air Force up and down the United Kingdom. Transpore safety, Heidi Alexander speaking in the comments earlier this week. Passengers should not have to face this disruption. I have therefore asked the CAA to conduct an independent review to establish cause. And she, the Transpore Secretary, would join me later in the first hour of the show. Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Call 03456060973. Text 84850. Nick Ferrari at breakfast on LBC. A reminder, it started in Dover in Kent and then moved to the streets of Portsmouth

2:01Sunday night, the early hours of Monday morning after the arrival of 120 asylum seekers in the Port City. Stop the folks, stop the folks, stop the folks, stop the folks, stop the folks, stop the folks, stop the folks. We know of course the impact of those protests had and there were minor injuries to a number of police officers. There's also widespread abuse of lifeboat men and possibly lifeboat women, which I said less today is inexcusable. Now, after meeting the home secretary yesterday, national police chief lead for public order, Andy Marron, I gave this update. We continually evolve in policing. We have learnt some lessons from last weekend very quickly. We've put that straight into our planning assumptions for this weekend. Without going to operational specifics for the weekend, there are commanders in place across key forces across the country who have that in their mind and will be ready to respond. Some of the stuff that we've learnt is around communication and that's just something that will always be a challenge in complicated public order scenarios. We've responded very quickly. We've got a coordinated response across policing and across the

3:07country that's happened this week and we'll be ready to respond this weekend. Those are expressions again, lessons and lessons that have been learned, but let's turn to Roy Ram, former head of specialist operations at the Metron Police. What might some of those lessons be in your view, Roy? Morning to you, Governor. Good morning, good morning Nick. You know, I think it's good to hear somebody say that they've learned the lessons, I did want to wind the clock back a bit. In 1990, I investigated the aftermath of the Pulse Hatch riots in which hundreds of police officers were really seriously injured. Some of them were life-changing injuries and as a result of that, I recommended then that face coverings should be banned at political demonstrations and I think what should happen here is that police commanders should quickly designate the areas and ban the Banner clavis and the face coverings. I think that will have a very significant impact on demonstrators who are there, not for legitimate political reasons,

4:13but to harm police officers and get into a confrontation. That's the first lesson. I think the second lesson is about communications and I think that these kinds of incidents in Gover, down in Portsmouth really indicate that we need a much more co-heasier police service. We need these larger forces and we need a much better communications infrastructure. What went wrong either in Kent or Hampshire, do you think Roy? Well, I think in particularly in Kent, they didn't designate the area with the face coverings. There weren't enough police officers there. You know, Kent's a decent-sized force. He got 4,000 ish police officers, but it's still not a massive police force with the ability to turn out hundreds of police officers at short notice. I think there was an underestimation of the level of violence that these people could bring and I think that that's a breakdown in intelligence.

5:14You have run police squads. Is there a danger? You put that in policy in place. No one is to wear Banner clavis around Dover Harbor or Portsmouth Harbor, whatever. Then the blocs and women who are brave enough to do the job have to go and ennick someone who's wearing a Banner clavis. Isn't there a danger? You'll know better than I. That's going to incite the crowd Roy. Yeah, but yes Nick, there is that danger, but I think it puts us staking the ground and it's sensitive to these people. Look, we're here to protect you if you are prepared to have, sorry, prepared to take part in the legitimate process. But if you come ready for a fight, if that's your intention, we can use quick snatch squads to get in and pull these people out of the crowd. You're only going to look at the stance and the behavior of some of these guys that turned up in Dover. They were there for a fight. And if the police are aware of that, if that's the intelligence, then in addition to having that kind of front line of police officers who are there to deal with the normal order of the situation, but in addition to that,

6:19you have a disciplined snatch one to go in and pull these people out very quickly. The others will see, hang on a minute, I'm going to get Nick here. There's a good chance I'm going to go to prison. And it has a real deterrent effect. Lastly, you reference those poll tax rights. The decades on, how has protest in your view? How has protest and protest as how has their tactics, how has protest changed? Roy, I think communication is there key. I mean, back in 1990, wasn't the pre-operation of mobile phone and quick communication. Now, in some senses, the police had an advantage, because their personal radios and were able to talk to each other quickly. But now, demonstrators have the same ability to use communications equipment, and they can deploy and get their messages around the group and change their tactics quickly. So I think that's a fundamental change. As ever, thanks, you're done. Have a good weekend sport. Roy ran former head of specialist operations at the Met, 10 after seven,

7:21missing Laura O'Brien, whose partner and head of protest and public audit team, Akhodge, Jones and Alan, firm of solicitors joining me now. So the headlines say that Home Secretary Shabbana Mahmoud has told police chiefs lessons must be learned and they must get a grip. As a legal professional, does that rather concern you that kind of language? Good morning. Thank you. Yes, there's always dangerous when you have politicians weighed into policing. And use such hyperbole. As always, regardless of what's behind any gathering, what is important is that there is a proportionate and sensible approach to it. I think one of the things, though, to just to comment on here and come back to the last guest, is that people have referred to this gathering as a protest and the people engaged in it as a protest. Now, as a protest lawyer, part of what I do is arguing for the protection of the right to protest, but that is the right to peaceful protest, where people gather and use violence or have violent intentions. They should not be referred to as protesters. The concern I have

8:25about Shabbana Mahmoud and the comments is that we need to make sure that what is here, a group of people who have violent intentions at the very least and have used violence and abuse towards people, that the messaging about them does not justify far ranging interventions with the rights to people of peaceful protestors. It needs to be a case by case approach. How relaxed or otherwise are you about orders to remove face coverings? Well, I don't agree with the latest version of the powers to remove face coverings. What why? Because the powers can be used in any circumstances where a senior officer decides that there is a protest that will involve the commission of offenses. Now, the first thing there is that what can amount to an offense in the context of protest has become far far broader. We've seen the creation of a huge number of offenses, including, for example, locking on, which you can make just by holding hands, linking arms. There isn't a distinction here about where

9:26there is violence or the risk of disorder. And so the concern I have is it doesn't make that distinction. As I say, we have to distinguish between people who are engaging the right to peaceful protest and people who are intending to at least risk disorder or to use violence or to intimidate. And the powers don't make that distinction. To those who would say, last said, or you don't need to wear a balaclava to take part in a protest, therefore you should be nicked. Is a sum would pierce some people would assert, how would you respond? I think there are other reasons to wear a face covering, for example, privacy. And the example I give is let's say that someone attends a protest in relation to trans rights. That's the type of topic where if you are identified as a protest in support of trans rights, you are at risk of being the victim of abuse online. And there are people that sometimes wear face coverings or privacy. That's not for health. That's not for religious reasons. That's not for work. But it's for privacy.

10:28There needs to be a distinction between people who are using face coverings in the context of violent gatherings or gatherings, creating a risk of disorder. And those who simply want to attend a peaceful protest and remain in their privacy. Laura Brown, thank you for your time. Enjoy your weekend. Your partner and head of protest at the public order team at the firm Hodges, Jones and Allen. Police intelligence has seemed to indicate that they are certainly the police are getting really. Obviously they don't know and they don't can't fail rather badly with the intel last weekend. Didn't they? But seems to indicate that there could be more of these demonstrations or protests. The police, the home secretary and telling the police that they need to get stuff home truths from the home secretary, but what should the interpretation be? And what of these face coverings? It seems to go around and around that conversation, doesn't it? Meanwhile, in other news, we will look back 25 years on. We understand that there has been a plane crash on the southern tip of Manhattan. You're looking at the world trade center. This just in. You were looking at obviously very disturbing live shot there. That is the world trade center. What's the world trade center?

11:31CBS and CNN and we'll ask how the world has changed after the attack on the world trade center. And back here in the UK, the idea of a holiday tax and they tax us on just about everything else. Oliver Coppard, labour mayor for South Yorkshire. It'll be a small feat in most likelihood and that money can then be used by mayors to fund public services or local improvements. Right. It was initially meant, of course, it would help make the area more attractive for tourism. Now already it's been sent elsewhere. We'll get into that in more detail as well. Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 03456060973 19 minutes after seven coming to your calls, as we say, lessons to be learned, get a grip, not get tough, but try and be slightly more robust coming to your calls on that Jerry Kevin in a moment. Quick look at the front pages of the newspaper. The other story we're going to be looking at actually a little bit later in the show is the front page of quite a few of them wasn't it was the day since the Daily Mail Burnham's holiday tax to hammer families on UK broke breaks. The sun working people whacked is the story there.

12:34There's a wide range of stories. A lot of them, of course, quite rightly and we will also market is 25. Oh, it's also the front page of the Guardian. My apologies, it's a hammer blow, even the Guardian out in love with it. Plan for English tourist tax, anger's the hotel industry. The Daily Telegraph has a lot of the other story, of course, is reflecting that modern word we reflect so often, it reflects on events 25 years ago. Very powerful and clever front page of the Metro in which they've done just 9-11, but the 11 in 9-11 is a recreation as it were of the Twin Towers 9-11, 25 years on and the eye saying the day that changed to the world, the Daily Express is looking head to the terminally ill legislation a vote later today and we will be covering that as well to the LBC app. Well, they're going with the story that we started with as well. My colleagues, they're banned face masks at far right protests, says Shabbana Mapmood, and I have to tell you most of the websites are all quite understandably going with events of 25 years ago, both in the United States and Washington. And of course don't forget the United

13:35Inductive, the plane plane that was grounded as well. And we're coming to that later in the show 720. Let's get Jerry, Jerry, into the long story, I'm sorry, Jerry, and Jerry, you're in Las Vegas, good to hear. By the way, well, I'll ask you about 9-11 a moment. Have you say on protest first if you were Jerry, morning to you. Yeah, I remember exactly where I was. So, but anyway, come to 9-11 a minute. Let's do protests, but I do. Were you living in the States 25 years ago? Yeah. Okay, we'll talk about that in a minute. What do police need to do? It might be do, it might be also, it might be average, it might be anywhere. Tell me how many, I remember three, remember I'm looking for my video, you watched videos, etc. Three years ago, would be coming up soon as well, you helped the, his butt to hear March, standing white, so, and all you saw is, butters walking by, dressed in black, waving, protest, extremist flags, jihad, flagged. Yes, I remember some of that. Yes, yeah. Right, and I've seen it a few times. Right. There's been watching completely bewildered. Right. But then you get the feathers the

14:37other week down the coast, and then it's a major focus. Now where's the consistency? And also they've had a senior march is every time you must have been in the yourself, anytime you saw someone walking by, you saw fellow in a hood, will be face covered. I think the men would concede they did not police well the early stages of those demos. And you say my point though, yeah? I do. To me, try to just run keep this as honest as a conversation as possible. You know yourself, right? You allow me the opportunity. Anyone out there, not just me, but I'm sure it's pretty, I would imagine a lot of people in UK would be saying, if you're going to go go off to the furthest down on Dover, rightly so, and you're a judge who got a policeman talking to you, but is it a double, is it a different standards? Are they seen as thugs, football hooligans, whatever it is, but the other party or not? Where is the consistency there? There is no consistency, but there must be consistency. Consistency, otherwise policing is not fair and it has to be fair and judicious, doesn't it? It has to be, yeah, it has to be. Otherwise, these people, the genuine protesters,

15:41and you'll always get just like football hooligans, is it? You watch the football, is every fan a footballer? No, you have a small element of people who go to football match and cause problems. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this last on this subject. Do you buy the argument that is put forward by some of these protesters or demonstrators that if they are photographed, they then that could impact their work because they say then that they might lose their jobs or it could impact their employment and that's why they don't allow their faces to be shown. Well, I thought it was two reasons. A couple of answers. One reason could be that, well, the former Prime Minister proved that with the way Nick Tolo, the people for making comments on the internet, rightly so. When I first saw them guys down there, I assumed it was a kind of a dig at the all the protests that seemed themselves where they saw loads of people dressed in black, which you know yourself. I assumed that was what it was about. Maybe I was wrong, maybe I was looking too deep into it, right? And as far as losing their jobs, of course they will.

16:43Of course they will. Quit work 25 years ago, so you were living, were you in Las Vegas 25 years ago then, Jerry? Yeah, yeah. I'll come back exactly where I was. I was working in someone's house and that the CV on. And I looked around like you know, they got the news on, graduated attention for a minute. And I thought I was seeing some kind of, I don't know, movie or I couldn't believe it. And I also had some friends, Brazilian friends who'd moved to New York a few months previous ironically. And I was in New York in 1999. I did stay there for a few weeks. I was thinking about staying in that I moved on just to wait these things worked out. But I think the only, just to end it, I think the only way, I think for any people who were perhaps fallen around near the end, failing to the Second World War, they experienced the blitz. It was probably very, on that day was a very similar from little people, very similar type of thing. Have yourself a safe weekend, Jerry? Unless Vegas more calls coming in Kevin, you'll be the next caller. Let's go to other matters, domestic matters. And the introduction, he said,

17:44of this idea, this opportunity for a local author, is to put an additional tax on a holiday hotel stays, housing and local government secretary Angela Rainer. In Cicida yesterday, it would help businesses and local economies. The Prime Minister's talked about areas being left behind and decline. This is opportunities for those areas to celebrate the tourism that calls their areas, but then redirect that into their local area, into the infrastructure there, so that it really benefits local people. Helen Godwin is labour mayor of the West of England and joins me now. How supportive of this are you? Good morning. Good morning. How are you? I'm grand thank you and I hope the West of England is grand too and has had a very successful and economically buoyant summer, so I hope it's gone well for you. How supportive are you of this? I'm generally very supportive actually. As you know, my region includes Bath, Bristol and hopefully we're also seeing include Western super mayor. So tourism is really important to us and this I see this as an opportunity for us to

18:46reinvest the levee back into both the infrastructure but also our businesses that support the sector. But I'm sure you're aware that the hospitality sector across the whole of the country has been suffering of late. How on earth is an additional tax going to help? So for us, this is very straightforward. Our visitor economy is worth about two billion pounds a year. You'll have seen yesterday all the labour mares have signed a letter committing to this having a ceiling and being a pretty modest tax. We know that we've got these taxes in other parts of the UK all over Europe. People are used to paying them but what we want to do is harness that and then make sure those very businesses that you talk about in the hospitality sector can see some reinvestment from us directly resulting from that tax. But if I want if I'm a dad or if I'm a mum and I've got a family of four and I want to come down and experience the delights of the west of England or stay in a hotel and bath and I get an extra

19:47five percent on the hotel bill and maybe I'm running that hotel and times the tough. How is that helping anyone? I know it's helping you not you Percy. I know it's helping the region but it's not helping those hoteliers or the tourists is it? Well, we'll help the hoteliers because we will lose booking. Well sorry many in the hotel industry are suggesting they could actually be in reduction bookings. I mean I think the opposition that I've seen from from hospitality UK in particular seems to focus I think on this sort of getting out of control in terms of you know that the tax is going up and up and up and it's not then being spent back into the sector. There seem to be their sort of main points of opposition and I think what I can say is that we we've got that agreement that we won't you know this won't go through the roof and also that we will spend it back into their sector and I think my job now is to have that kind of local consultation where I can make that point to hoteliers and other businesses that are in the west of England

20:49and and that's what we used to that's why that some may as won't be doing this because they they're very believe in it. Amel when you're asked what where will you spend the cash by hoteliers in your region you will answer what where will the money go. So the money will go in my mind and obviously we're going to consult on it so this isn't you know this isn't completely decided but I would want to look at a mix of improving sort of public realm to improving the areas that both tourists and our residents use improving our visitor attractions even more I mentioned western super mayor there's there's lots of work happening in western to sort of regenerate an amazing place but that can do with some love let's be honest and also supporting businesses and workers in the visitor economy so things like late night transport routes for people that work in the nighttime economy people that support our tourists so it's it'll be a mix bad but it will all go directly back into the sector. I have to leave it there Helen I'm great for your time Helen Godwin thank you labor mayor of the west of England talking about the great

21:51west country of course Bristol Bath and other places thanks for that 728 a weekend of protests the home secretary home truth to the police what should that actually look like on the streets Kevin in Dudley Kevin you're on the radio what do you want to say good morning hello Nick hello sir fire out we I find it very hypocrisy of what the labor government's state in at the moment in what way we've had years of left wing protests on just top oil and tifa you know even animal rights groups who for years have covered their faces we've been able to avoid all left wing but anyway yes go on to the point you want to make yes yeah well I don't just mean left wing I'm just trying to say in protest yeah absolutely it could be left wing what I mean is for years this has happened and you don't get the accroy when it's just stop oil you don't get the accroy when it's to do say there was a lot of anger wasn't there over just stop oil do you not think about the way they'll protest

22:55in and stop in traffic and doing stuff like that but not so much about the hiding the phases why were they hiding the phases because did just the just oil hide their faces a lot certainly they used to sit down in the roads and certainly used to glue themselves to the roads whatever I mean I mean I may be wrong I don't call a lot of them wearing face coverings are they are remember seeing a lot of them are they remember seeing a lot of anti-ferno no I agree with that yeah that's true all dressed in black all with face coverings and and certainly there's those environmentalists who dress all in white and they have those almost like come almost like ballet masks or whatever one face back I'm quite cool but then what's like Venetian masks that's what I was looking for so I remember them yes so so what I'm trying to say is it's a ban it has to be an outright ban and that also includes the burka because anyone you know why why don't these total testers just go out and then dressing burkas next time and indeed or of course they might wear motors are the limits so we have to be good broadly do you support the protest obviously peaceful do you support the protesters in places such as Dover

23:56no not really not not the way of them doing it is a peaceful protest and are also peaceful protest and I think that goes across the board and if you're going to ban the the ban the face coverings for you know for one set it is very effective yeah very much the point that Jerry was making Kevin thanks for making those points good to hear from you will continue this conversation also coming up but later in the show we turn the clock back 25 years that day every minute brought new horror I'm obviously is Helen Hodden not taking a look back at how 9 11 I'm folded hour by hour and it's been dubbed the most famous revenge dress in history princess Diana was tonight attending a charity dinner while her husband spoke of their past and future to millions the princess may have chosen to go private the prince to go public it was that little black breast that the late princess Diana or that was it in commentary now it's going for sale it's up for sale but if you fancy by now much would you have to pay out you might be surprised at the cost

25:03Nick Ferrarian Breakfast on LBC call 03456060973 735 bacterial conversation as there is intelligence police police certainly gearing up for further protests or demonstrations about those both crossings what should the action become to more reviews in that just a moment it's going to be economics and business christian mayor zealotron chief at city a m and this is a government that's saying it's going to go for growth and there are some figures I think that have just been published on that subject christian more given to us and it's up to them morning christian what are the figures good morning Nick yeah it's a cheerful way to end the week yesterday we were talking about the potential elimination of mankind thanks to rogue a i's but we can turn a corner on that put it to one side for a moment and focus on some good news because the economy has performed better than had been expected the consensus among economists and reading to the validity of economic consensus as much as you like was that the uk would record no growth in july well things have turned around in fact there was a 0.4%

26:07growth to our gdp across the month of july it's worth looking into that a little bit more detail construction was down production manufacturing was down but services and we are a services based economy and that's everything from professional financial services to hospitality soared up powered of course by very good weather by staycations by the world cup and largely by the hospitality sector up 0.6% resulting in that 0.4% uplift in gdp within that it's also true that a very substantial increase in the investment into technology and in particular AI has helped pave the way for that so that's good news good economic growth for the month of july now unfortunately you do have to put that in the context of what might come and we are very well aware of headwinds blowing in and not least ahead of the budget john heli will still have an enormous challenge to carve out sufficient space to stay within the government's fiscal rules

27:10that itself is all about his fiscal credibility which he says is the bedrock with his approach to the economy but borrowing costs have surged again oil which we've discussed this week hit I think around 105 dollars a barrel yesterday that is very alarming gas prices increasing as well so as we head into the autumn and the winter we can look back on a good month of growth in july the budget is coming up lots of questions around that and the context for that is one in which energy prices will increase inflation is uncomfortably persistent and the public finances are not in terribly good shape but I am prepared to end the week on an optimistic note and say well done everyone for a decent run of numbers in the month of july and we celebrate that let's move on now for some it's nicknamed primani I speak of primark how are they doing well primark is on the cusp of spinning itself out of its 1,100 consumer goods giant abf the parent group and that's

28:10quite a complicated procedure ahead of that it's reported that its own sales of slips due to weak consumer spending and that's something of a pattern we might be seeing there across the retail sector because the other great giant perhaps at the other end of the market is the john newis partnership now their boss is vowed that they will manage to turn a full year profit but that is going to have to come after they brush aside widening first half losses which have been driven by rising costs and a slump in consumer confidence and consumer spending the owner of john newis and weight shows said that their loss before tax of £124 million in the 26 weeks up to the first of august was pretty painful and they do point out the increased cost of doing businesses they say that they will turn that around to make a profit by the end of the year and that work's going to have to start now because they are entering the golden quarter the all important pre-Christmas retail period so that's where they're going to focus their efforts lastly I won't be bidding for it because the new ish mister i doesn't wear a lot of black but

29:13others might I speak of the so-called revenge dress yes cast your minds back to 1994 when princess Diana attended a party at the certain time gallery it was in the hours after the famous documentry was televised in which then prince Charles admitted to the committee in adultery during their marriage the dress was quite striking I was pretty young fellow myself at the time next I can't look all watching it on TV but having seen pictures of it this morning I can understand why the press at the time dubbed it her revenge dress and the auction house sunnabees is putting it up for auction in December they've said they expect it to fetch a price of around £220,000 and it may even go north of that so if anybody out there is looking to conduct an act of revenge or just fancies a nice dress with a bit of pedigree behind it there you go nearly a quarter of a million quid and it could be

30:15ever good weekend christian maze energy for city a m and i bet you it goes for a lot more than 250 grand i put i put a bed on that i seven forty let's come back to our conversation about face coverings and demos in general Fiona's in candle Fiona what do you want to tell me good morning oh hi Nick yeah i just wanted to put some facts out there first of all i'm speaking on behalf of just our boil we never ever covered our face well i didn't recall that with that call as i said yep yep gone and it was like a deliberate policy to to be accountable for what we did which is why we sat down and we still sit sit down last wednesday we were in parliament square saying no new oil why are you going backwards for god's sake is next time we stop oil once and for all and it was 60 people sitting in the road there was a blue light area like we always have for ambiance or emergencies to get through and people sitting in the road and all 60 were arrested and ended up in police stations and have been done for it and have been charged

31:20right we if they've been charged we have to try and we have to take care of these there are charges for it is a policy for just up all you do not you're not anonymous we are accountable and we are we say we've met we've got a legitimate demand which we think is right it's backed by science it's agreed with and then we went out there and we did have to it could and could i just say people lost their jobs people and i have real risks we've got doctors who have been have lost their licenses because of this which of course if we're not careful it's going to support the argument that they should have faced government which is identity where you want to go as you rightly remind us and i was right on that one but you did not or do not wear face coverings for you and i had to leave it there thank you for that have a safe weekend now 25 years ago with clear blue sky stretching over Manhattan what should have been another beautiful crystal tunnel day in New York thousands of people headed to the twin towers to begin their work day thousands of them would never return home obviously his hell and hot knot looks back at the events unfolding on

32:24that day number three in the back of the concert not answering somebody stabbed in business class 819 am on September 11th 2001 Betty Ong a flight attendant on board american airlines flight 11 makes a call to authorities that will go down in history the hijack is on board can be heard in a transmission to air traffic control 846 am flight 11 crashes into the north tower this is breaking new we're looking at obviously a very disturbing life shot there that is the world trade center and we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers oh my god oh my dear the brakes smoke all over the place i hope nobody there's got to be somebody killed and and pull people i want to work the second plane to be hijacked is united airlines flight

33:24175 passenger Brian Sweeney is on board and leaves a voicemail for his wife jill this is not in uh listen one of the airplane that's on hijack i just want you to know you a one-year good bohesis 903 am the plane crashes into the south tower hundreds of firefighters head to the scene and start climbing the staircases of the burning buildings i'm sorry the park is the fire but she's never not in that one too late 905 am president george bush is visiting an elementary school in florida his chief of staff comes into the classroom and whispers that a second plane has hit the second tower america the president is told is under attack and today we've had a national tragedy he holds a short press conference before boarding air force one and heading to a base in luiziana two airplanes have crashed into the world trade center

34:30in an apparent terrorist attack on our country at 937 am the third plane flight 77 crashes into the western side of the pentagon oh my goodness it would appear that there has been another major explosion this one in the nation's capital the fourth and final plane to be hijacked is flight 93 the passengers and air crew had heard about the other planes and decide to fight back 959 am back in new york the unimaginable happens as the south tower collapses 29 minutes later the second tower goes down it just collapsed oh that's poor people oh god lower manhattan is swallowed by darkness as dust and ash blocks out the sun despite the chaos a rescue effort begins within minute

35:33just 18 people are pulled from the rubble alive 2977 people are killed including more than 400 emergency workers that night president bush addresses a nation and world changed forever and promises a decisive response from the united states america has stood down enemies before and we will do so this time none of us will ever forget this day yet we go forward to defend freedom and all that is good and just in our world thank you good night and god bless america president bush concluding Helen Hodinot's report we got more coverage coming up not least someone who was in one of the towers and survived he made a great escape and you'll hear that later in the show next for worry at breakfast call o3456060973 10 minutes before eight i'm aware i haven't featured any of your emails and uh texted

36:34coming in on the subject of face covering rob rouse says you listen listen to your lawyer the far right are violent if they see the face of someone who is on a protest that's be human rights and the far right track them down well i don't think it's exclusive we have seen violence on the other side mayor in port smith says knowing some people went to the putstreet protest in port smith i hate the way that it being called far right they're normal people who are concerned about the amount of people coming over here and the impact it will have on the community marie thank you i will end your text there because i have the opportunity uh bringing the conversation uh government minister as we celebrate the news for the north because the government said they wanted to get them back on track in the north and that's exactly what's happening with some trains hidey aliexana to transport secretary joins me now good to have you on second to state what is it that you're where are you you're under fact of some sort what is it that you're announcing good morning good morning Nick uh nice to speak to you again i'm actually in derby at the alston manufacturing facility this is actually one of the largest train manufacturing facilities anywhere in the world outside of china and we're announcing the fact that today um there is a deal what to bring one billion pounds worth

37:41of investment um for for a new fleet of battery electric trains british manufactured here in derby this is going to deliver faster more reliable cleaner journeys across the north of england they're going to be running on the trans penine express route and so this is a really good news story because the new battery uh power trains means that we can ditch some of the dirtier diesel uh it means that journey times are going to decrease so these trains alone will decrease the journey time between Manchester and leads by about ten minutes between Manchester and York by about 14 minutes and alongside the infrastructure investments that we're making in rail in the north of england um this is going to mean a better railway for people um how many jobs will it create how many jobs will it protect and when will the trains actually take to the tracks sector state? yeah so the um facility here in derby there will be 350 jobs that are secured as a result of this

38:42deal 40 new apprenticeships and in the wider rail supply chain over 5,000 jobs will be supported the trains will go into manufacture in 2028 there's engineers working uh to develop the designs as soon as the deal has been announced it takes about four years to actually manufacture the fleet of new trains and then they will be arriving on the network in the mid 2030s and so it does take a lot of time to get new trains built and up and running but it is going to result in significant improvements for people in the north of england and of course as we renationalise the railways putting passengers before profits making a more reliable railway um having better quality rolling stock better quality trains more comfortable trains uh more reliable i think that's the sort of thing that the travelling public wants to see lastly on this do you recognise what when i speak to my uh callers and my listeners in the north they do feel that they've been left behind for many years as

39:44regards rail and rail supply of uh trains do you recognise that and is this an attempt to alleviate that sense i think the public in the north of england have had to tolerate a second rate public transport system for far too long now and so these new trains that are going to be rolled out on the trans penine express routes are really important it's why when we announced our plans for northern powerhouse rail at the beginning of this year which will include a new brand new railway line between Liverpool and Manchester via Manchester airport i think that was received positively by people in the north of england we've got to drive economic growth and maximise that potential that exists in cities the great cities of the north like Liverpool Manchester leads Yorkshire field and these trains are also going to be running over to hull on the lines there at the moment the the the trains that are running are diesel and so this these new

40:49electric trains will be will mean that we're able to ditch the diesel which is a positive thing as well apologies my earpiece just dropped out but i think i'm back and i think i can hear you again i've got just to check can you hear me Heidi yes i can okay onto other transport matters if i can secretary of state um you had a meeting concerning the glitch with gnats what level of confidence do you have in martin roffs the comes the firm's chief executive so i'm confident that gnats prioritise safety this week but i do need to be clear with your listeners that the level of disruption that the travelling public had to endure was totally unacceptable and air passengers do deserve better that's why within 24 hours of this incident occurring um i met with the chief executive of gnats we had a full and frank discussion and i made clear to him that within seven days i expected a report on my desk setting out exactly what has happened here i've also asked the civil aviation authority who are the independent regulator of gnats to conduct an independent review because we can't have gnats marking their own homework

41:55here and that's Heidi elixir and assured it should be three strikes and he's out so you're right to say that there was an incident in 2023 there was a smaller incident in 2025 last year that affected the primary radar tracking system so i'm going to be looking very carefully at the report that is going to be on my desk next wednesday i'm not going to rush to judgment i do need to understand the details but the fact that there was the incident in 2023 were a you know a big investigation was done a number of recommendations were made about improving the resilience of the software and the it systems at gnats we need to go over the detail of that because earlier this year i was assured that all of those recommendations were implemented the c a a produce reports in March and June of this year which i reviewed carefully but something has gone wrong here clearly we need to get to the bottom of it and you know i think it's my responsibility is the

42:56transport secretary acting on behalf of passengers who will be rightly angry and frustrated and the airlines to make sure that you know i hold gnats and also the civil aviation authority will he still be in a year been a week's time last year on this i'm looking at the report that it's going to be on my desk on wednesday and i'm in a related conversation you may be aware that the boss of ryan air has been accused of trivializing rape he was claiming the prices of rising at other our airlines and he said the following you might find some people will choose not to fly with ryan air but you know they'll be overrun with the people abandoning air lingers luft ants of ba and other departures to get to ryan airs low fares because they can't afford to fly with the high fare rapists around europe he's standing by those comments as transport secretary what would you say to mr o'leary i've learned in this job in the last two years that mr o'leary is often quick to share his considered thoughts with me and with the wider world i would say that women who have

43:59been raped and who have been subgevets subjected to such appalling violence i'm not sure they're going to be rushing to book tickets with him let's be honest last year very important vote later the House of Commons the so-called assisted dying legislation i know which way you voted in the past you have voted in favor would you still vote in favor hi delixander i will be yes but this is an individual matter for members of parliament the government is remaining neutral in this and the prime minister who won't be voting today and has said that the government will respect the will of parliament on this issue i think it's a deeply emotive question for a lot of people i know the seriousness with which MPs and members of the House of Lords have debated this proposed legislation over the last year and i'm sure the debate in the House of Commons will be similarly respectful and thoughtful today grateful for your time joining us from that to a part in darby good luck to the men and women who

45:02were working there who are going to bring about those new trains thanks hi delixander transport secret let's go minute late to news because i want to come into the conversation we had about the tourist tax as it's being called disability for local authorities to add additional charges jazz in tauntan which is in the west country in summer set jazz your take on this good morning hi yeah i'm just thinking over the hotel space that my parents have had over the last two years and to be honest they've been to visit six family members um either up north or my dad had my stepdad had a um an offer a major operation at Bristol hospital which obviously we've thankful that we live near a big hospital like that and we did have to stay overnight just in case anything went wrong and it's like should should people be penalized for that but there would be no way to discriminate against people staying for leisure and people staying for like working it is picked up by their companies whatever it might be yeah do you think it should happen lastly

46:04i don't think it should i mean like other people said if you look at the rates the business rates that hotels are paying a board it makes sense why they'd have the levy have a good weekend jazz i'm sorry that there's been all the travelling that your family have had to do in those distressing circumstances and look forward to speaking with you again the music means we have to move on and coming up after the news is a suggestion that make disability benefits as easy as possible to obtain says a review co-chair of the review into piped to Stephen Tim's the number of people receiving pip has risen considerably and is forecast to continue growing when Hamas and Irran say you're doing right do you need to reconsider your position that's the verdict on Ed Miliband and those sanctions he introduced earlier this week and of course we go back in time 25 years on from 9-11 survivor Bill McMahon we were all standing there at about that time the plane hit our building and it blew out the elevator doors and knocked us all to the ground and it's kind of smoking debris lvc news is next

47:12this is lvc from global leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferraria breakfast good morning four minutes after eight on Friday September the 11th coming up in this our make disability benefits as easy as possible to get says a labor review i'll tell you just how much money that is in the budget and ask is that being the right approach what's the right approach for the very sensitive issue that vote on assisted dime they mr. Ranson has revealed she's now too frail to travel to Switzerland to take her life you may recall in interviews with me last year she said that that was her plan and he she told me this surely ethically somebody who is in charge of the NHS has to say i have to give patients what they're asking for which is a good death come back to those protests and demonstrations from last weekend and the suggestion there could be some more watch of the rn li it's cheap executive peter sparks both going in this week in response to reports of volunteers those brave lifeboat men and women facing abuse the our and our

48:15amazing volunteers and stuff have selflessly dedicated themselves to rescuing people they have never met before without judgment fear or favor is it fair for me to suggest that when that bunch of murderous terrorists how mass a you're dating it right you're probably getting it wrong does Ed millebert need to review his position concerning those sanctions and of course we'll continue the coverage of 25 years on keep on the building i don't know i never just hit something else just hit a very large plane just directly over my building and there's been another collision can you see it i guess a astonishment mixed with horror in newsrooms around the land that was NBC news by the way as the second plane went into the second world trade 10th centre town the conservatives are seeking to make the suggestion that the labor party is the welfare party they're seeking to make that stick that tag and when you hear the latest there may be something to

49:19that sickness benefits should be as made as easy as possible to claim according to a government review the long awaited study led by welfare minister and parliamentary veterans of steven tims found the system for claiming pips personal independent payments is too stressful for claimants and called for a shake up the cost of pips which is now the main disability benefit will double in ten years and will be around 40 billion pounds by 2030 so it's nudging it's in the 30s now 40 billion by the year 2030 i mentioned this idea of the welfare party conservative party leader kemy bada knock they're not the labor party anymore they're the welfare party they have become addicted to welfare we need to wean the country off welfare not feed this addiction andy burham is old school labor the kind that we haven't seen in decades neal kinik is his hero he still thinks Margaret thatcher a woman who became prime minister before i 46 year old was born she's the root of all the problems and i want people to understand that this is what we're dealing with this is old

50:23school labor they're going to tax tax tax they're going to blow all the money on welfare it is pure socialism they're going to run out of our money kemy bada not speaking with me yesterday let's bring into the conversation james price james is a senior fellow at the adam Smith institute and served as a government special advisor across five different departments so when you were in government mr bros was there a growing sense or concern because we're now looking at these are claims being approved at the rate of a thousand a day good morning good morning thank you for having me it's great to be back with you even on such a dark anniversary is today uh look i i think that this um this conversation on the right started even before the conservatives got back into government to be thinking about in done consmith and all the work that he was doing when he was in opposition in the noughties and you had this mad situation where it was perfectly rational perfectly economically sensible for people to stay out of work because the state was giving them much more money to stay at home and not work and then it could go and find out on the jobs market and so that principle that

51:25work should always pay i think is a good one and for everybody who could work even if you need to give them some support in order to do that there is much better obviously economically but also better i think personally morally spiritually dare i say for people who can work and for those who really genuinely can't then of course there'll be more money lying around for those people for us to be able to support if all the people who could work and don't weren't claiming that kind of money and because we're not doing that in the moment you're seeing those kind of eye watering figures that you're talking about rightly this morning it just absolutely exploding at the moment what was the impact of sateans work would you say i think it's been enormous because i think it's it takes a long time to be able to in any government department to be able to push through a sort of change in mindset and a change in culture and him being able to stick around in that department for a while i think really helped you see the same sort of thing in education where someone like it gives stuck along in in that job for an awfully long time to change that culture but i think the culture

52:27changes exactly right there are so many households now across the country where nobody has ever worked and so children are being brought up in household many of them are growing number where neither mum nor dad have ever gone to work and so they think that's a perfectly normal thing to do and i think that's not just economically bad but as i say i think it's a spiritual problem there the wrong Reagan said the best social welfare program in the world was having a job and he's right i've i've had a period where i wasn't in work for a while and you get that first job for a while and you go go i'm actually contributing again it's feels great to be doing something for other people and it feels great for myself and we should spread that great feeling wherever we possibly can rather than just saying you know what don't try don't try and sort anything else out let's let's just give you enough money from other people and it's not just me saying this it's the labor work and pension secretary pat McFadden who was caught recently saying my job seems to be taking money from people who work to give it to people who don't and you can see why it therefore came you made a nox says it's no longer the labor party but it's the welfare party James your

53:30reference Ronald Reagan is there anything the united kingdoms can learn from similar systems elsewhere in the world yeah i think i think so i mean first of all it was there a weird americanism that Andy Burnham had earlier on this week at p.m.c. was it way he talked about the american phrase social security and he said that national security cannot come at the expense of social security which i think is completely wrong and his wide written feels so weak and defenseless at the moment with a threat from russia and the threat from political islamism and we can see again today is a very good day to remember that threat i don't think it's going to make people feel good to think don't worry lots of people are sat at home being given lots of welfare payments and that's okay because we can't defend our own island so i think that that defense of the realm should come first and of course spending there should be sensible but i also think that we should look perhaps at other countries and realize how much debt we are in compared to many of them it's not a kindness to borrow money against our children our grandchildren our great grandchildren at this rate which is

54:32what we do when we spend money we don't have and we're now three trillion pounds in debt that the americans are what 40 trillion dollars in debt and that is all taxes that our children and grandchildren will have to spend and a huge amount of that certainly in Britain is going on that and actually in america too where it's all their kind of welfare payments so let's not go and look at that example i think the most of the world has actually got addicted to that kind of debt on these welfare payments James i will leave it there good speaking with you again thank you James pricene fell out the adam Smith institute listening to that having a deadwoods whose director of influencing at the national disability charity sense thank you for coming on the reports as currently it is stressful to be able to actually go through the process of claiming these benefits how stressful do you believe it to be good morning morning yeah it's incredibly stressful our recent research found that from over half disabled people with complex needs told us that the process was humiliating and many of them actually told us that it harmed their house and left them you know with more needs than it did in the beginning um this game claims are being

55:35approved at the rate of more than one thousand a day does that mean that we are getting sicker does that mean that more people are being made aware of these benefits why what would you put that rising number down to well i think let's start with the first thing that this is not an out of work benefit what we're talking about here is yeah yeah so it's to support disabled people with the extra costs they face um so this is to do with more people getting better diagnosis better health care support and better understanding of what they need and that should be really welcomed i we've got more people here who are asking for the support they need to be independent to work and actually that's what our research has also shown we just carried out some recent um work for the millbone review actually with young disabled people with complex needs um and so many of them said it was that that benefit enables them to go to work it was more than two thirds of them you by listens if you would with your charity sense what sort of claims are made what is it that people

56:37that you represent what would they be claiming for and if you happen to know what sort of money might be available well it's very unique as specific to each person so i can't really talk in the round on that one but i think what we the people we support a sense have lifelong um health needs um they are disabled by society they face barriers every day and pip helps and pay for the extra costs from that so it can be things like paying for a wheelchair accessible taxi because they can't get on the underground or it can be things like paying for the extra energy they need to charge their electric wheelchair um so it is really very unique to people and that's the brilliant thing about pip is it can be personalized for that person and it also supports people to get into education to go to work and in many cases we know that at sense that people use pips to come to our social care services because they're not getting enough money from their local social care budget all right harry i have to leave it there thank you for your time harry edwards your director of influencing at the disability charity sense calls coming in already that rob i hope you can hold to the other side of the headlines and we'll speak to you then make it as easy as possible

57:41to get of course in some instances but we're looking not far off of that will be 40 billion pounds that's more than half of the defense budget should it be made easier plus no easy decision for our elected politicians over assisted dying co-sponsor of the bill labor MP Jess Phillips back in 2024 i have experience of this i have experience of watching people die in pain without dignity without choice Jess Phillips joins me after the headlines 56060973 disability benefit should be as easy as possible to get the pip budget 40 billion pounds just off robson chilton you'll take on that rope you're on the radio good morning good morning cheer sir how are you doing i'm glad tell me about you well i'm doing grand um i'm listening to all of this about you know putting people back into work

58:41and encouraging people on benefits to get back into work now there is already a system in place right where you can work a certain amount of hours a week right now does this affect you personally sir no it does not right um our work is a volunteer carer for my mate i'm actually busy cleaning my mates house this morning okay on a voluntary basis is my best mate i've known him for years and you don't get a carer as allowance no i do not oh we have never looked into that right okay okay um i do not i um on you see the reversal not sees what i need to see too that that's okay for you financially that's let me ask you rob fortunately i'm not on any benefits and i think i'll probably get there now in that i'm few put in the bank how easy is it to hear my sitting there i've been enjoyed i've been enjoyed employment for a number is how easy is it to get these benefits in your

59:42view rob it took me no i'm an afghan veteran ah um it took me over two years did it why why so long rob well they have me on job seekers allowance right where i was running around chasing the same job over 43 websites brief and i had i had to do that on a daily basis right i have a i have seen the same job listed on multiple websites right due to the degeneration of the job center right okay the one thing that you will not find in the job center is a flipping job lastly an extension of events today of course the terror attacks on the united states in a sense possibly took you to afghanistan that is why i ended up in afghanistan so how do you look back at events 25 years ago today and

1:00:47indeed what you saw and the bravery you had to display in going to afghanistan um yes i'll let a candle this morning did you lose some it did you lose some mates sir yes 13 13 buddies yeah all really as a result of events today in the united states the last view on that rob well um i'm pragmatic about it because it all like terrorists i don't think any of us do that uh rob thank you thank you for your call and thank you for your service cheryl you'll be the next caller on cheryl i'm sorry cheryl you'll be the next caller on that but let's go to other matters and tough decision making for our MPs and i know they come in for a lot of criticism which broadly think broadly i think is unfair the vast majority go in simply because they they want to try try and put a bit back and try and improve society but it's a tough one for them today because it is the terminally ill adults brackets end of life close brackets bill

1:01:49labor MP for Birmingham yardley former safeguarding minister co-sponsor of the bill and a deep good friend to obc jess phillips joins me now um good to have you on jess trust you and all the family are well what would you say to any of your parliamentary colleagues today who are waking up this morning i just don't know which way to go i'm worried about the lack of safeguards just what would you say morning look what i would say is that uh i think it's brilliant if met and miss a parliament i'm worried i think that what lots of people in the country don't realise is that most days we just get told what we're going to vote and it's so there are rare opportunities anybody ever tells you what to do jess would go on to be fair not me so much but there are rare opportunities where people can really sit and listen to the debate the first time i ever voted on this i properly sat and listened to the debate without having made my decision and made my decision on the basis of that the safeguards that the bill has already had two hundred hours of scrutiny it's the exact same bill that has previously um gone through parliament it and it has had more scrutiny

1:02:53than most government legislation and look as somebody who has dedicated my life to safeguarding and thinking about people being coerced into behaviors we we have built into the bill a series of measures to to look you will there is no perfect system ever um but the what our job is as legislators is to is to make things as safe as they possibly can be and that is what we have done and what i would say is that the current status quo doesn't keep people safe i'm afraid that in cases of domestic abuse suicide outstrips um homicide in what kills women who are victims of domestic abuse and we have absolutely no idea about coerced suicide that is currently going on we haven't there won't see those people won't see two doctors those people won't get sent to a special panel of people and so this is my opportunity i suppose today to to try and make a system that is already a world where safer just what was it that swung your vote the way it went what was the

1:03:57compelling argument that persuaded you but the first time i ever had to vote on it and it wasn't this bill it was three weeks after i had been elected so i was fairly fresh um but it was actually key to our mom he made a very compelling speech about how is the chief crime prosecutor he had had to you know potentially criminalize people for helping their families travel to have a dignified death and so that's what changed my mind but fundamentally and i will speak in the debate but today hopefully it is it is watching my loved ones die my mother died of cancer when i was 29 years old and she died in horrific pain and she was a woman who i mean she'd organized her funeral within in well you know within an inch of her life which it sounds ironic to say she she liked control over things and so really like most people today i'm doing it for people like my mom she liked control over things i think mother like mother like daughter them of ruler which way is it

1:05:00going to go yes i absolutely do not know it passed by small majority i honestly i honestly don't know and do you know what nickers whilst i really hope it passes yeah um i i there is a sort of freeson of excitement for me in the fact that i don't know because so often parliament is quite boring because everybody wins the votes by a certain amount so um i i don't know and i think the genuine we believe about 10% of people today who make their decision on the basis of the debate always enjoy speaking to you best wishes everyone just thanks just philips laboring people Birmingham yardley co-sponsor of the terminal ill adults brackets end of life close brackets but we have had conversation about very happy to take your calls on that but it is benefits we're talking about at eight eight i repeat eight to 26 eight to 26 uh jj and kent my neighbours never worked she's one child at school another kid who neither works or is at college they live in privately rented accommodation the rents twelve hundred pounds a month where's the money coming from the younger child also gets a free taxi to school niel says my partner works part-time he's and his

1:06:01benefits and if she does more hours she would then be worse off so what's the point i know there is that extraordinary dichotomy or position whereby it does actually that it pays you not to work and we've had no doubt about this for years nothing seems to change Sheryl's in did cut what do you want to say about work or indeed benefits good morning lannic lovely to speak to you benefit thank you this whole benefit thing actually really annoys me so my husband is 59 once to work was made redundant in March applied for hundreds and hundreds of jobs no response was back occasional interviews never come back he wants to work he has to check him with the job since every single week they they have an option trying to get a job we cannot get benefits because we own a home and that home and you can't get benefits so I say I'm very fortunate I've never so that and that's it is it if you're a homeowner you're out out of it yeah because my income is slightly

1:07:02above but it's not enough to cover our bull what needs to happen to help your husband well somebody needs to take action I mean there's all these jobs and like your previous call is said you see the same job coming over and over and over again you apply for it all the time so I think there's ghost jobs I don't think there's real jobs doing advertise this economy needs to be stimulated to look at growth and jobs and at the age of 59 I do think he's being disconnellated what was what line was your husband in he's in manufacturing he's in manufacturing and what's it done for him it must must have knocked him a bit emotionally as well I'm afraid she's it he is he is absolutely battling and I don't know what to do to help him he's I mean his mental health is taking off but he's not going to call if off any benefit it does seem very unfair will you give him my best wishes really really tough on at that age I think if you lose it's awful to say it if you lose your job in your thought is it's tough if you lose your job in your

1:08:03fifties it really really is tough I do hope there's a breakthrough shall thank you give my best wishes to your husband our peaches in London Peter what do you want to tell me good morning all right good morning the reason I call I was trying to call it long long time I've got I've got this ability a little girl and I've got to say good water is that right yeah yes she's 11 and she's in a special need school okay and borrowed bonnet I've been trying to send her leg we said literally a school closed by me I was trying to send her there they never accepted me to send her so she needs to go like 30 minutes away from home and basically the worst thing is I have to drive her so I have to give up my job every morning three hours time you send her to school and time you go back to work I lose the three hours work because I've got my watch you take the other door I have to send the other one to school and seems all of these benefit people they just get everything and I'm sorry so your child is is it to attend a special

1:09:03school then yes yes does that not therefore qualify for some form of paper benefit they are but I mean obviously I'm a I'm a power person I want to make I want to work for my door I don't want her to get any benefits I want her to progress in life and pay tax you just get sitting in her also they get nothing I wanted to work yes but what happened these days people are getting everything I know people they literally all day in a coffee shop I drive around I've been in this country for nearly 20 eight years yes and I work hard and I pay all my time so lastly I would imagine you think it's desperately unfair as regards your daughter's name it's big time unfair you get people on the corner like a transport in Barnett and these guys got no swears they come from doesn't even know public he doesn't even speak public English and I say listen I need a transport for my daughter or he's going to go fun at this week and that week and next week so basically I have to give up my job to do that I hear what you're saying and for you it's very unfair Peter thank you best wishes

1:10:04to your family this conversation will continue and also coming up after the headlines will speak with a 9-11 survivor Bill Maun who told me about the rescue mission that was launched 25 years ago there were these guys digging and looking for survivors looking for their fallen comrades that dedication to me was just something I'll never forget more on that after this it's 830 breakfast to meet Nick Ferrari here on LBC Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 035 6060 973 let's put in an email and a text about the conversation we're having on PIPs 833 as the time jays as alarming figures about PIPs if clients are being approved at the rate of a thousand cases a day I'd be curious to see how many are being rejected I have a feeling we have a very small number poor gentleman she's yes I can Paul says I have a six year relative who's just decided to be tested for ADHD privately for herself and her 18 year old daughter it's 194 pounds a week each that's 1550 to pounds every four weeks almost twice as much as my state pension no wonder we have 700,000

1:11:09more people on universal credit remote courses is PIPs we're talking about in that but we're going to talk about assisted dying now that bill of course before the house and this in Horsham which way do you hope it goes Andy and why good morning good morning Nick I hope it doesn't pass if I'm honest tell me why I think it's a slippery slope I the other places it's been implemented around the world I know there are some what seems safer places in Europe they haven't gone that far but if you look at Canada how far that's coming such a short amount of time oh you know quite a bit about Switzerland I don't know greatly about what's happening Canada tell me what you think's happened over there Andy it's been a while since I've looked at what the stats are and stuff over there but I believe they're lowering it so 12 I think it's down to 12 year old children can do it with certain life on conditions like that that would be I mean that that would not be the case in the United Kingdom of course no but it wasn't in Canada five years ago either but it okay

1:12:12lastly on this um Switzerland was one of the countries in Europe that if I can use pioneered this and you still can't you still don't have 12 year olds in Switzerland so is it oh no of course not it's a so can I argue if it's a slippery if it went the Swiss way we'd possibly be in a better place is that fair it's I think it'd be a better place in Canada but I still the the principle I still come back to is I don't think the government should condone it okay just someone so sort of where you're absolutely right in that was explored in Canada but it was actually rejected so the very fact no that's all right you did say that no but the very fact that you would even explore that I can see where your concerns are Andy thank you more calls coming on that but we are talking about these pips Nathan in Leicester Nathan what's the reality as you see is it quite stressful to claim them do you think yeah yeah it's really stressful my my lad is just turned 16 and the process of him getting paid it was absolutely horrendous for me mind about

1:13:20if we weren't here and he had to do it on his own it's just that the whole system should shock in one way shocking just elaborate a bit if you would Nathan so like my lad is autism yeah and the the kind of I get that they have to ask questions but like all the history kind of was there you know you you've got people judging him now because you know he has got a mobility car that that we use to take him you know to him from Blasives but they're thinking oh god that they must be unloading money at the end of the day he pays for that car out of his living allowance he it's not a freebie as such um I don't know it's you think there's enough understanding of the situation of people such as your son no no no no I dread the day when it when when it kind of comes where we leave school and and has to get some kind of job because

1:14:24it's going to be a nightmare and what what sorry just explain why it would be a nightmare for the lad to get a job sorry just elaborate if you would um well the market at the minute I mean I work in aviation I've gone through two redundancies um I went to the job center once I did leave I got made redundant I live in Leicester and the same well you know why can't you commute to Manchester airport life it's two hours away it's um I'll be four a bit four hour round trip from Leicester to Manchester wouldn't it yeah yeah um I just I just don't think the job is there any more Nate I think you might be right Nathan I have to go I'm sorry because I've got to other stories but my best wishes obviously to your boy but to the whole family and well done for coming out of redundancy twice that's that's quite an achievement credit to you Nathan thank you have a good week in with the family eight thirty eight is the time now we need to look back at those events 25 years ago knowing the week I had a privilege of speaking with a 9 11 survivor Bill at Marn now he was working for Morgan Stanley in the south town of the world trade center

1:15:2725 years ago and he took me back to the day that changed his life and indeed changed the world started out like any other day had a group of people we have breakfast with normally and uh started my work on the 69th floor to world trade I bet your family and friends when you told them prior to this you worked at the world trade center they thought wow what a fantastic job tell us about some of the views it I visited it sometimes it was incredible yeah I mean it was beautiful my office actually looked out over the statue validity on clear days I'd see planes taking off and landing in newer helicopters going by the ferry down below on the Hudson River um it was just a spectacular view so let's turn to that dreadful day what are you doing when the first plane goes into the other tower well I'm actually um speaking to someone named John Marshall who I happened to know and it's kind of interesting how these facts just stay in your mind for that length of time such a shocking event but remember talking to John looking out over the statue liberty and what I

1:16:31saw floating by me for lack of a better term was things that were on fire and and it's just one of those moments where it just doesn't seem to make any sense right you're you're used to seeing planes and helicopters and birds and that type of thing and now I see some things on fire going by my window and that's kind of when the first moment hit us that something bad was going on they took the security they took evacuations really seriously at your company they did so Rick was Gorla who was the head of security for Morgan Stanley um and originally from England um and uh came here to the US fought in the Vietnam War um was a war hero there and then started working from Morgan Stanley um as the head of their security and he was there during the 93 bombing and um ever since that day he was convinced that the World Trade Center was a target and um so his

1:17:33kind of mantra for lack of a better term was nobody's going to come up and save you you have to save yourself there are no ladders tall enough nobody can there no parachutes to jump out the window you have to save yourself you're on the 69th floor which from memory puts you a little over half way it's about 110 stores as I remember so the evacuation begins what happens next as you and your colleagues are making your way down after the plane hit we kind of got together and talked a little bit about um what was going on because we they if you ever look at the World Trade Center if you remember right the windows are very narrow so the ability to really see a lot out of the windows other than straightforward is relatively challenging so um we couldn't really see what was going on but we knew something was going on we had talked a little bit about it in our small group walked over to the stairwell we were missing one of them uh patty so I went back and got patty and she was talking to her daughter on the phone and I had to tell patty we got to go come on let's get going and so you

1:18:34know she got her tennis shoes on and we walked back to the stairwell and worked our way down to uh the 44th floor we were all kind of just standing there discussing about what should we do and about that time um the plane hit our building and it blew out the elevator doors and knocked us all to the ground and there's kind of smoke and debris and all that kind of stuff in in in the space so now you're effectively in a race for your life because you're on the 44th floor the main point of impact is floor roughly 77 so you and your colleagues have got to get 40 plus floors as far as you quickly can what do you recall of that well the the part that I guess was different for me was that after the plane hit us and blew out the elevator doors and you know we all got knocked down and we all kind of then stood up there was no yelling and screaming or crying or panicking or anything everybody just kind of looked at each other like what in the hell's going on because it was just one

1:19:35of those out of body experiences and we all just kind of moved towards the stairwell and started working our way down the stairwell and so it wasn't I always if you think about Hollywood right people yelling and screaming all like that's not what happens I mean everybody it's just the silence and you're looking around like okay what do we do now and we just went over to the stairwell and you know it we probably had a hundred and fifty or two hundred people on the floor at that time and so you had to just stand in line and you know wait your turn to start going down the stairwell can you recall Bill how long does it take to make your way down 44 stores of the world trade center when you're going down the stairwell or other people going into the stairwells you stop right yeah and then you start going again then you stop and then you start going again so I'm willing to say I just a guess in my part 25 to 30 minutes you're in that stairwell you know and you still don't you don't know what's going on right you don't you have no idea

1:20:37and what do you recall when you actually did you see or did you hear did you witness the collapse of the tower yeah we were about four blocks away we had gone into none of the cell phones worked and so we had to try to find the landlines we had a friend of ours who one of the guys we walked down with at a friend and another building so we went into that building about four blocks away to make a phone call to our spouses and tell them we're going to be okay and about that time someone just started screaming oh my god oh my god and we looked out the window and you could see the building coming down and then the smoke cloud for lack of a better term going down the streets like that what you're abiding memory of that day Bill a couple of things really touched me um the heroism of the people when I was running away there were policemen firemen running towards the building you know I did not know at that time that was the last time I'd ever seen these people or to ever see these people um you know and that really you know as I think back about that day

1:21:42that's one of the things that really touches me I um about two weeks after that I had an opportunity to go back down to the pile and I remember standing there um right at the edge of the pile and there was still all this ash in the air and it was falling on your shoulders and your head and the smell was just overwhelmingly horrible and yet there were these guys on top of that pile digging and looking for survivors looking for their you know fallen comrades and everything I mean it was just that dedication to me was just something I'll never forget 25 years on Bill how well do you sleep um pretty good I mean it's you know I feel very fortunate that I got out of there are there times where you know if I'm going into a tall building or you know an airplane is very close or something like that do I get a little bit of a shiver because of that I do right it's still um there are times

1:22:45where it just floods back right and you just got to take a deeper breath and keep going forward last you mentioned the security chief I think you said he was uh he was a Brit Rick rescuered what happened to Rick well Rick um we were group people like you together once a year and we toast Rick because we get out of the building because of him and we say we have two birthdays our birthday when we were born and the day Rick saved our lives 9-11 survivor Bill McCorn coming up in the next hour I'll be asking how it changed the world and how it changed your life and your memories 25 years on 9-11 Nick Ferrari and breakfast on LBC call 0345 6060973 coming to more of your calls concerning benefits just a couple of emails in here uh Rebecca I just want to check out and read your name yeah Rebecca says I have a chef who's been out of work for over a year due to a near death experience with my asthma I have been working all my life the jobs

1:23:48center don't help you at all I must have applied for more than 300 jobs without any help from the job center after working all my life I was only entitled the Universal Credit which didn't cover my council tax but I'm 60 and that's being held against my applications actually in Becker's field says there needs to be wide scale benefits reform there are far too many people that know full well how to play the system we should also reinstate the two-child benefit cap actually it's interesting you say that because it's been polling has been done and you can tell I'm quickly racing to the page should we get a new poll found a widespread public support for restoring the two-child benefit cap scrapped by labor earlier it's your 61% of people supported that lastly jewels and shelves of my 23 or some losses job in January has just started to claim job seekers allowance to his personal shame is one of these needs but the job center are absolutely useless providing no help in getting back into employment uh who's been hanging on the logs it's Harry in Crawley Harry what do you want to tell me good morning good morning to you um I think the whole system needs an overhaul

1:24:50if I'm being honest I think it probably is in what way though what what needs to be done it needs to be more specific you know my father was made redundant in his 50s he had a very good career in in the fashion world all right um and I know you sell it what what did he do he worked with a big fashion label called coast which was quite large back in the late 80s early 90s right and he was he claimed well he basically went bankrupt um he switched career he had to and he's raised three children in a family a homeowner um he had switched career he couldn't stay in the industry that he was in and he switched to executive driving chauffer um we've all in there you know I was in a state eight so you've been there you mean you've had periods of unemployment just to clarify yeah I've had periods of unemployment yeah and they've not lasted that

1:25:51long right um I was in a state agent for 10 years oh that's interesting my my mental health suffered during that time I switched um I know clonetries for a living I'm an arborist right uh I think people you know so far down yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and I've reduced them and yeah but I had to make a decision that kept my family safe I'm a homeowner yeah I have two children um my wife would like more right and I think some people need to accept that you may not be able to stay in the industry that you are trained in um and sometimes you've got to go backwards to go forwards do you think there's words too not widespread let me refer to it do you think there's some abuse going on Harry 100% I've got an uncle who is living with my 93 year old man he is registered as a carer right he doesn't care for her he's an alcoholic he takes drugs now I know alcoholism is an illness I know that but she is looked

1:26:57after by my mum my auntie who both work and he gets money from her he gets money from benefits he's not a well person he's not fit to care for her and presumably his carers allowance and Ben of it just goes on booze his carers allowance I imagine uh yeah yes secretly and a lot of cigarettes 20 a day which we know are 18 pounds a pack yeah meanwhile me meanwhile we've got you know I've got a nephew I've got a sister who's got a son who's severely autistic right and had to wait nearly a year to find out where his school placement was going to be um because the account local council's only grant um the grants for yeah especially needs education yes which comes at a very high cost if you are severely autistic yes um and she had to go through

1:27:59jump through burning hoops in order to get her son into the right education because a normal secondary school would not be suitable let me ask you a question if it's too personal just say so you you wife wants more children I sense you possibly don't is that because of the finances of it we we are homeowners we took she was made redundant while she was pregnant with our second child yeah she was working in marketing um and she was she was paid more than I was but at one point we were pulling in nearly close to six figures a year between us right okay and we're now on dramatically less right but we're happy yeah and we work hard for our money you know my mother and father raised us that you go out and you earn money um if you're short on money we go up to a local car boot sale yeah we sell old bits and bobs toys we buy our children secondhand clothing yeah you know we're very frifty and careful with our funds final question um you say that you know

1:29:02you're pretty or you climb trees is are you enjoying your employers it's the best job you've had yes i'm happy that's so important best wishes to the family Harry thank you have a good weekend with them all interesting life stories putting in a shift at bloat isn't it state agent didn't work out now his climb entries good luck to peaches and batters see peaches you're on the radio good morning hello that's your um yeah just I think the um i talked about his morning is um is subject shooting people who um are not really sick um the practice isn't different right yeah yeah but but not everybody but the art practice is in to do like um an Oscar nominees when they're going to the doctors and scribbling the fee of impotending convincing themselves that they are poorly and we're giving them money and then you've got these carers who're getting 400 per 400 quid for a vehicle you've got the sons they're driving around with with BMWs and Mercedes and stuff while the mothers are um um without the car outside the house and then their sons are driving

1:30:07around not even being a carer and getting a carer was allowance for it so um you hear government review saying it should be easier to get benefits how do you respond to that review i'm disgusted with it because the thing is i if i'm paying my stamp duty and i work for a good solid 20 years or a good solid 25 you've got to get 35 years when you've got people who've never worked today in their life and they get the full pension because they get the but our tax buddies paying for their stamps to get the full pension while we've got to go down to the social to go get a top up it's absolutely disgusting it really really is they've got it the wrong way around and it's so the wrong people yeah oh oh oh again it's lazy it's lazy it's peter thank you for your input on that let's get one call in three minutes before nine one more if we're quick shan in winbulant shan the point you want to make good morning or points morning night hello morning um i have a son who is now 19 who was born with conflict special needs and as his life has progressed he has sadly developed

1:31:13more and more difficulties um and he has learning disabilities and my experience through the whole process in terms of applying to dla and pip has been i wouldn't say horrendous but i've had to put in a lot of work i i stopped working after i had him um because i've had to manage his hospital appointments and advocate for him and it wasn't straightforward i had to continuously prove all of his disabilities all of his difficulties even though he's complex he has epilepsy he can't walk properly sometimes with his difficulties um things that quite right what was it so difficult to get those points across then do you imagine if your son is has those issues well this is what i don't understand there's no joined up writing in the system i have to say so there are people who seem to be able to claim benefits and work the system like the previous callers have mentioned um and i just don't know how they're doing it because when you actually do have a valid claim for somebody who is complex who's born with life-limiting conditions and it's and eventually pip or gla agree

1:32:16that they're going to need continuous benefits because they have a life-limiting condition there are still other agencies you have to um continually prove well why you suppose these other people seem in some instances it would appear seem to get it so easily do you imagine i i honestly can't work it out i really can't work it out i mean i in every area of my life i only get the carers allowance i'm very capable of working it's not enough money um he needs his pick to pay for special shoes to pay for taxi sometimes i've had to fight continuously since last year for his college placement and more recently for three months for him to get his transport to the college placement which education are funding um but um social services didn't want to pay for his transport which is an hour away and he can't travel there independently because of his difficulties shana i had to leave it there because we we're already way over time at best and i'm thank you for telling us so much about your struggle kind of for my best wishes and say when we talk about this again do please come in so and get more details good luck with what you're doing

1:33:17the music means we move on and coming up after the news the war on terrors saw prolonged US interventions across Iraq afghanistan and a decade-long manhunt for a summer bin Laden i'm lbc's Henry Riley looking back at the aftermath of 9-11 plus the warning from the rnli the volunteers should not wear badges after a backlash chief executive peter sparks the rnli's people represent the very best in our society yet they and their families are being threatened by those who would hide behind a balaclava or a keyboard those stories and more will follow headlines at 9 o'clock on lbc this is lbc from global leading Britain's conversation with nick for rariet breakfast come on two four minutes after night on friday the eleventh of september yes 9-11 and we 9-11 and we will come to that in full detail now how it changed the world was never the same again

1:34:19what's it how it changed the world how it maybe changed you your recollections perhaps you had family and friends who were directly caught up with it but they were on flights that were crowded we talk again didn't we nothing like the sort of same scale that we went through early this week in other news when hummus and aran saying you're doing a good job do you think you might need a rethink it's applies to this man foreign secretary ed milliband we want a thriving israel we want a prosperous israel and we want an israeli government we can work with well certainly event fordits from her mass we'll give you more details on that story and also the aran ally warns volunteers not to wear badges after that backlash but this is an incredibly brave body of men and women the the those in peril on the sea or of course on rivers or in lakes going into those crashing waves risking their lives and then getting abuse the other end of it i know i said that i have concerns about

1:35:23it being turned into a taxi service but that doesn't speak about the bravery of the men and women involved and we'll talk more about that later in the hour nick for rarion breakfast call o3456060973 text 84850 nick for rarion breakfast on lbc every now and again and i've been in this business quite a few years now every now and again a story comes along that simply defies words or description and this is one of them 9 11 overseas reporter and re-radi looks back at events on september 11th enemies of freedom committed an act of war against our country and night fell on a different world a world where freedom itself is under attack there were profound practical cultural and geopolitical changes in the aftermath of september 11th a seismic shift in immediate us foreign policy our war on terror begins with al-qaeda but it does not end there it will not end until every terrorist group has been

1:36:28found stopped and defeated with a clear enemy identified collection of loosely affiliated terrorist organizations known as al-qaeda a person named who some have been loved with allies british and chief among them key to support america the days following saw NATO rally it shall be regarded as an action covered by article five of the washington treaty which states that an armed attack against one shall be considered an attack against them all us led military campaigns in the years that followed targeted Libya Somalia Yemen Pakistan Iraq and less than a month after the attacks in afghanistan as part of operation enduring freedom united states military has begun strikes against al-qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime in afghanistan i can confirm that uk forces are engaged in this action i cannot disclose obviously how long this action will last the nearly twenty year war saw a total two thousand four hundred and fifty nine u.s military personnel and four hundred and fifty seven uk personnel killed

1:37:31in two thousand and three attention shifted to a rock american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm a rack to free its people and to defend the world with claims made in a now debunked dossier of weapons of mass destruction an attack within forty five minutes this is the right moment for us to stand firm with the united states of america in defeating terrorism wherever it is what i genuinely believe to be the security threat of the early twenty first century abona says we didn't have any allies in this war what's he say to one hundred and seventy nine british armed forces personnel were killed across a rock as well as four thousand four hundred and eighteen u.s military personnel later after a decade long manhunt u.s navy seals fan-america's most wanted in pakistan with breaking news interrupting the celebrity apprentice because you're facing a very tough men's team plus littlest as an enbussin news pressure report we will hear from the president of the united states he will address the country and near moments i can report the united states has conducted an operation that killed or some have

1:38:36been locked nine eleven was the starting gun for a rise in islamist terrorism with bombings in midrida and seven seven in london in the following years the u.s officially left a rock in twenty eleven but it was the chaotic withdrawal from kebou in afghanistan that became a painful humiliation and the taliban regaining full control the united states ended twenty years of war in afghan the longest war in american history i believe this is the right decision joe viden concluding henry riley's report let's go to events here in london then and bring into the conversation shawne windiaht now shawne is to kochi for example of bgc and bgc's parents firm can't or fits jerald lost more than six hundred employees in that attack shawne windiaht joins me now can i take you back we're going to talk about how you've tried to get some positives out of such a horrific negative story and you have achieved it with your colleagues but i want to take you back if i don't mind uh shawne 25 years ago were you in the firm if so what were you so that's cool what were you doing shawne morning you're you're too kind you're too kind

1:39:41and it well i wasn't the firm uh i was a uh a young twenty eight year old guy who was uh been at the firm for four years i joined in ninety seven and uh i was uh sitting on the the fifth floor of the finance department uh and i was on the phone that that morning as i was every morning at half past eight i talked to my colleague uh in uh it was in the world trade center handing over the book and uh and our fifteen minutes just explain what that means shawne what is the book sure sure so it was so we were trading us treasuries and interest rates swaps and i'd be letting the us know the business that have been generated in us treasuries in the morning during London hours and in interest rates swaps in London hours and then i would i'd talk to the the us uh tell them what have been done in the morning before before they took over uh the trading and fifteen minutes into that call the line went dead right and i guess you try to recall into

1:40:43New York and you never get through absolutely i mean you're you know going twenty five years ago so it's an open plan office and uh and of course you look up there are a few tv screens at the back of our office and uh obviously we we saw the pictures coming through the first thing we tried to work out was was it our building because uh we were in the north town and we were trying to work out if at that time of course it was the first plane that had gone in and of course it was in the north and i walked around the equity desk the equity uh business around the corner and they have they have on their trading desk they have direct lines into that into that office obviously they was still going for a little bit longer and then everything of course went dead and then we realized that yes that was our office and uh and uh we were on floors 101 to 105 so what what's a it's a chilling moment that even 25 years on it it it it just brings back such such such unbelievably such unbelievable memories um i don't want to cause you additional distress did you ever find out

1:41:47what happened to the person with whom you were speaking Sean uh yes she did not survive she did not so so Nick i mean if we had at that time you know califist Gerald at that time had 1100 employees and it was quarter to nine so not everybody's in the office but all six hundred and fifty eight people who are in the office because we're on the floors 101 to 105 nobody in the office survived no right nothing gets near the loss of course of all those human lives but i do have to bring you into the world of business what happened with cantalfits Gerald well uh the the ending story is is of course is an incredibly positive one but but but for for the first month so if you imagine so they are are are chairman and and CEO Howard like Nick he he lost his brother he lost uh he lost his best friend he was you know really dealing with the loss what potential loss of his company at that

1:42:48point in time and so uh i i had a phone call on the the next day the 12th of September had a phone call from uh from Sean Lindy later became bgc's president and he said look you know i offered you a job two years ago um and you didn't take it well i'm offering your job today and i really need you today so i want you to leave that floor and come onto the trading floor dance fairs because we've got one hell of a job to do we've got to try and save this company and so of course it took me i don't know 30 seconds to pack up my stuff walk down to office yeah and roll up your sleeves all right so out of such unspeakable tragedy something positive of emerged has emerged what of you and your colleagues put together so what we've what we've put together is we first created uh the the cantor relief fund to look after look after the the 658 people and first responders who obviously lost their lives and then once we've done that uh in 2005 bgc here in the UK and

1:43:49around the world we created charity day so a day where um all of the revenue that we generate uh in in around the world we give to charity and uh the way we do it is we bring in hundreds of charities and here in the UK i've got 60 charities uh coming in they bring their celebrity ambassadors we put their celebrity ambassadors on the phone and and create a really positive atmosphere as you could probably see behind me on one of the trading floors okay and uh and this year's the 22nd of our charity days so far we've raised $234 million for charities around the world and and look as you know Nick the the markets to it's a busy time in the market at the moment and so that's we're going to make the most of that today and i have my fingers crossed that if we have a good day today uh we'll take that number past $250 million and last year well good luck well done with that and a quick one i think we have a mutual friend David

1:44:49Buick of course has helped with this in the past as well because i've met young David at your offices in the past i think he that's right that's absolutely right he was David David was was working for he was working for the company almost as long as uh as i was and uh and yeah he was i mean yeah great friend of the company and uh and yeah he did so he was he was here and helped us tremendously as well and of course he's still with us now the great David Buick as a you Sean good luck with you and all your colleagues i hope you get that money hope you get that figure you want to get to Sean windian is coachy v executive officer bgc which parent firm of cantal Fitzgerald which really did lose so many lives uh best wishes of the day because we've also put a lot of effort to get those charity days going so where were you on that day what are your memories and coming up to more current events i take you to earlier in the week to foreign secretary milliband today we refuse to be bystanders to further suffering and to the destruction of the two state solution which is an increase from some quarters that would be her mass and her ran

1:45:53Nick Ferrari at breakfast call o345 6060 973 lot of you sharing your stories barbars says on that day 25 years ago i was at Leeds Airport with my boss from belgian traveling home to Heathrow as we watch it unfold at my sister in law was a united flight attendant she swapped her shift that day she was on united 93 that was on of course where the passengers effectively took control and the plane was grounded barris as gobbels on our side that day andro in doleston watch your recollections at the morning yes good morning hello sir i was actually in the york at the time all right i was only the one train coming out of all trade center heading towards heading north to chamber street you were coming out on that morning everything stopped the main power ones out we have emergency lighting and we were stuck in there for eight hours we didn't know what was going on and we couldn't get any news most

1:46:55frightening time of my life what were the two stops you were stranded between andro remind me between the world trade center and chamber streets for eight hours eight hours of we were underneath because i suppose they considered that we weren't in danger and there was too much happening above so it was power cut off or they kept power on no the power was cut off but they had the emergency lighting on so you weren't actually left in pitch black but all the main power was off down there eight hours how long did it take within the eight hours before somehow someone got word of what was going on we only knew when they came together to walk along the track to the station before that we did nothing what was i hate this expression but it's what you always ask and broadcast what was the mood of the train carriage at the beginning there was a lot of fear a little bit of screaming but it would generally come after after time that we knew nothing

1:48:01was actually going to happen people were trying to climb through between the cars to actually get out there a couple cried over there but it was generally calm even though because obviously you're in the middle of New York so you're not you eventually someone is going to come someone's going to come yeah yeah i hear that i mean did you did were you handing around water what what do people do just to keep going for eight hours just just sat there there's nothing to do people should whatever water they have but there's nothing to do apart from weight so then the fire fighters come i assume and lead you out did they then say to you hey you're not going to believe what's happened guys the world tracer has been hit by aircraft what how did you learn what had happened when we actually got out out of the chamber street then you then you saw thousands of people either crying covered in white dust all you heard was the the fire fighters

1:49:12I saw one group of fire fighters they came in from Georgia to work there so you could hear with that can i ask them but but what what the worst part of the whole thing was not being stuck in the train but was the aftermath i went down to Wall Street about a week later when they allow people in and all there were hundreds and hundreds of posters and pictures of people on the uh posted like lost me yeah have you have you seen this person this is my this is my wife or whatever i remember i remember a picture of a couple and they're wedding and they're wedding well instead saying where are these people uh excuse me you're right i'll check even even today of course i i i i i i i i i i i i remember that and i also after 25 years

1:50:16i cannot be in a closed room i can i'm grinding so you don't use the underground entry i don't use the underground i've slept with my bedroom door opened for 25 years it's pretty big not at all not at all and you were working in new york or visiting what were you doing though uh i was working i had my own business believe it or not uh cleaning a fish tanks from Michael Bloomberg goodness me and he's probably got a lot of fish tanks um what was the air quality like when you finally got out from underground come me out to train but straight it wasn't bad because you're you're far enough away from uh ground zero right uh but again what astounded me was the amount of flyer flighters yeah have come throughout throughout the whole country to be of assistance

1:51:16uh i've i've went on to another we were in the first train that went through the old world trade center station and that also was incredible because it was imagined like Oxford Street was always busy and the uh going through that station it was covered with white powder it was deserted i'd said he was someone was looking after you that day andry it was at the time i didn't think that it affected me um but the time went on it had it has 25 years oh so sorry i'm so sorry andryu can i ask a final question or do you want to go my friend no i sure could i have how easy is it for you to board an aircraft i have but i've got some aircraft since i came back from there i haven't been on that you just took one flight back to uk and that was it uh yep and you've spoken with people to help

1:52:22you with your emotions on this have you there was no help here do you want some do you want some numbers to help someone who could perhaps help you i would love to help can ask you to stand the line support and we'll talk to you one of my colleagues yeah it's picking up now i am sorry i hope i haven't caused you to stress by asking you and you you told it honestly with the precision of a journalist or a lawyer you told it so cogently and i'm very sorry if i've caused you additional to say well obviously i've caused you distress cause you're crying um you can call the Samaritans by the way for free on 116123 the Samaritans 116123 if you've been affected by andrys call affected generally and we will now specifically be speaking with andryu i'll show you obviously off the radio let's move to other matters troubling headlines for some we will come back to 911 coverage but coverage but i think we should move on uh ed milliband earning praise for his decision to impose sanctions on part of israel

1:53:23praised by iran and hamas the jubilant responses come after britain was criticized as we're hearing that those two particular bodies are saying that the jewish status responded by closing a british consulate but when you will hear that they are supporting it does it cause you to have a rethink the tasha house doof his legal director at uk law is for israel charitable trust and is a barrister to be found at six pump caught chambers earning headlines praise from hamas and from iran tasha how do you react to that good morning good morning nick i'm afraid it's not surprising in the circumstances um only about a year ago we had the same sort of reaction on the basis of uh kirstaamas government recognizing a non-existent state of Palestine so the consistent pattern of policy is coming out of the labor government has been to win favor from the sort of israelis terrorists that i think it's important on this 25 year anniversary of 911 we recognize have the same motivations the same aims the same anti-western ideology as those that

1:54:27took all of the lives and caused that continuing distress that your latest caller articulated so if you recall the foreign secretary of speech on that day a couple of days ago and that's that's my job not yours he did open by paying tribute to his jewish ancestry and reminding us all the he is a jewish man is he conflicted now with the stance that he's taken though well i don't think anyone in the jewish community was particularly taken in by the the phrase theology as a jew has of course become pretty famous for those that seek to use uh jewish heritage or an affiliation with the jewish people as a cover for promoting what is essentially an anti-jewish position and i say that because that speech which i looked at in detail and remember very well was replete with the sort of falsehoods that we have seen emanating from humass propaganda for nearly three years and when one puts out those falsehoods about the jewish state and basis policy

1:55:29which is not just against israel but i would go further and say essentially against the west in promoting the cause of these genocidal terrorists internationally prescribed as humassar then the cover of saying that i come from a jewish background or i in fact care for israel just isn't convincing and when we consider that the measures that ed mille band has put forward we still don't know the detail of them let's be clear on what has been suggested in that speech is rather incoherent on the one hand he said he's not imposing a trade ban on israel proper but his focus on for example financial institutions which inevitably every bank in israel provides mortgages to those jewish israelis living in this disputed territory there's no two ways around it he is essentially advocating a boycott on israel proper and it's no doubt that humass and other enemies of the west and enemies of israel will be celebrating as a result fine and briefly if you wouldn't attach it can i put it to you that the events actually

1:56:30it's nothing to do with telleroove and jirusla it's to do with holbin and some pancreas and the labor fear they might lose that seat in attacha yeah a hundred percent i think that's obvious and one of the reasons for that might be that we haven't actually seen any recent developments any changes to prompt this nothing has changed on the ground on the contrary the real illegal building in area e1 that the foreign minister has so exercised about i saw with my own eyes last month and it's in fact arab palesinian illegal building supported unfortunately by many in the international community importantly the european union that is the real violation of international law that is the real impediment to peaceful coexistence and the fact that we have this inversion of international law inversion of the facts the reality to promote this anti-Israel anti-Jewish agenda i can only be explained by pandering to those constituencies here in the uk that are threatening the labor parties continued hold on power all right attacha thanks you time happy holidays if it applies to you thank you and attache house to office legal director at uk law is the

1:57:32israel child will trust and a banister at six pump court chambers will come back to our conversation after this nick for rary and breakfast on lbc call o345 60 60 973 going to be more of your stories what happened on nine eleven but there is a story i want to cover which is the r and l i and if you were listening a couple of days ago i paid tribute to them and i point out how i give money every year my late mom used to send a check every it to the r and l i and now you've heard the raw national lifeboat institutes advise volunteers to consider removing their badges in public after a backlash over rescuing migrants as i said at the time what are they meant to do just watch them drown in front of them here's r and l i chief exec peter sparks the r and l i's people represent the very best in our society they selflessly give up their time to keep others safe yet they and their families are being threatened by those who would hide behind a balaclava or a keyboard their action in contrast is wholly unacceptable in a civilized

1:58:38society here here to that let's bring in the conversation gitto harry yes it is gitto harry normally i talked about all sorts of matters concerning politics remember he was very close with Boris Johnson's PM and then city hall but gitto is also a volunteer crew member of the r and l i on the river terms and joins me now gitto what would you say to those to quote those words again who hide behind the keyboards or balaclava's morning mate good morning you always lovely to be on a shone because you know and because of my previous associations and not least with blonde you know i'm not an official spokesman for the r and l but i'm a proud volunteer and done done more than a decade now on the terms and i am extremely proud of the organisation and my colleagues and the work that we do and it's really quite simple we rescue people without fear of favour whoever they are if they're in trouble on the water we exist to save lives at sea and in the case of the terms the title terms and so to pick on the r and l i and the heroic and selfless amazing people

1:59:41of volunteer on the coast and alongside you know me at the at the terms just to drag them into the political debate i don't know where to start and as for the nature of what people are implying i just think the idea that the answer to uncontrolled migration wherever you are on that debate is to watch people drown i don't even know where to find the words to describe that kind of political solution what's the spirit that binds you and the men and women of the r and l i together gitto well we come in all shapes and sizes you know at my station you've got people who in the day jobs are police officers ambulance drivers there's an actress there's a guy who's as a drummer for one of the most famous you know artists in in the UK he's he's amazing they're all amazing and what binds us is this desire to you know prevent people from drowning all getting into trouble because we rescue boats you know if they're going to cause danger to life and they need towing to safety but we're basically there to save lives at sea and the title

2:00:43terms and that motivates us and just for perspective i think there were 9 000 shots last year for the r and l i around the coast there's been 5 000 for the stations on the Thames since we were set up in 2002 and we were set up as you know because of the march and s disaster and the idea was that that should never happen again and so now if you're in trouble on the Thames 9 times out of 10 we will get to you and we will rescue you and we rescue you whatever put you in the water and one of the things to clear up Nick is we we do not rescue people and bring them ashore and then just let them run into the woods we hand them over to the relevant authorities on the south coast and it's for them to decide what to do so the debate and you and i have talked about the debate you know in another context that the debate is a real one it's a political one and it's for you know politicians to decide but you do not blame the people who just make sure that the answer to this is no default drowning in the channel how horrific is that so the political debate is for politics the r and l i doesn't

2:01:47get involved in politics at all we just bring people ashore and we hand them over to the relevant authorities good luck to you and the rest of your crew and the crews up and down the country and indeed to Michael who's on a lifeboat in Kent and one of my colleagues who's in both no Michael who's a tremendous bloke and also very brave bloke he's a harry thank you you serve with Boris Johnson's PM more importantly on this one though you're part of the crew of the River Thames the Tyler River Thames let's come back to recollections of 9-11 Ian's in Wallingford Ian I've got to note you were working there is that right yeah so I used to live in summit new jersey I worked in one world trade center sweet twenty one oh one with a whole load of people who fortunately all got out because we're on the twenty first floor but I wasn't there because my daughter was born on 9-11 she was born yeah three fifteen p.m. New York time right and so I wasn't actually on 9-11 on 9-11 on 9-11 so you would have heard at the hospital what had happened right so at the hospital

2:02:49we to be very honest with you my wife was having an emergency cesarean right and no but we did they they had televisions on that they thought would you know calm people down and when the the news wires came on so I think the news wires were actually slightly delayed the TV pictures seems to be slightly delayed certainly in the hospital by about 30 seconds or so or something we all thought it was a film we thought it was something like can you calm or some later you know it just did not look real in hospital jersey in summit over look hospital right okay so you weren't a Manhattan right got it got it now I wasn't a Manhattan I wasn't about my my closest colleague he lived in Princeton and we used to go in I mean so we worked on the first twenty first floor every day and he was saved because as he said his force broke that day that's a town yeah yeah yeah and so he missed his past train by 15 minutes and he was stuck in the past train but I did want to say Nick I'm just going to mention that the the kindest people I ever met in the world were the waiters and waitresses on

2:03:53windows of the world right at the top I used to go every day for breakfast that I took my mum when I was working New York I took my mum up there it was fantastic up there wasn't it was on the yeah the people who swapped their shifts you know for that day and the people who didn't you know didn't make it and those who who it's still to this day I speak to them they still feel so guilty that they swapped their shifts but it's just that's both fate really so you were twenty first floor the towers as I recall 110 floors did most of your colleagues get out or what was the story so all of the all of the staff so it was actually a UK company friends provident yes no one really existed yeah yeah so it was from prominent and it was friends library and signed with the the asset management for on the twenty first floor and we all got out interestingly the guys who'd been the American guys who'd been there many many years and they'd been involved with the world trade centers you know had been bombed about 1990 I was working there

2:04:56when that one where relatively low loss of life on that occasion as I recall that was it was but the apparently there's more panic that day colleagues my colleagues because the smoke went up the base up the stairs I remember I was worried it was yeah yeah yeah and so the the staff actually didn't actually realize the severity until they got down to the basement to to go out and they were told you can't go out there you can't go out there because unfortunately people are trying to solve the other way I think so the only way out was down out and through but no when you come back to UK how many years ago did you come back so we came back well fairly soon after that to be honest with you we thought we thought life had changed in in America and in the world so yeah I think you're right I did change in America and it did change in the whole of the world what a story you've told me and thank you for that and the guy the force it or the tap saved his life is incredible these stories like the one who shaped the emailer who sister changed shift on the United Airlines the United Flight Matthews and Grimsby

2:06:01where were you on the day Matthew what recommendations do you have on the floor? I was I was actually in Florida at the time I mean a villain kiss me I know kiss me yeah yes and we were just in Navi Nichild day and as my friend said he noticed that we on a flight path and noticed that the planes weren't flying and it wasn't until we looked at VH one at the time and it had the notice on to say to you it's what happened so obviously everything closed everything was not there and it wasn't we were flute we were due to fly back on the 13th and we went to the airport and actually we was the only plane to fly back because it was an American airline was there was a 30 I thought they were grounded for days yeah no we were to only flight that day that went out so there was no hand luggage there was nothing you had to so we we I know we said we had to pit stop as well in Canada to refuel sorry there was no hand you weren't allowed to put any bags on the plane you tell me no there was nothing I had a book with me and I saw all the suitcase so women couldn't even take their handbags or no all have to go into suitcases oh I see so it went in the hole so it was all checked yes I did yeah I'm so sorry I thought

2:07:04you had to leave it right right when you go everything now everything was so yeah so and we had to refuel in Canada and no on the way there we obviously got the plane and got on um whilst they're refueling but we couldn't so I had to stand the plane for two hours and then fly back so were you nervous yes I was it was it was the most it was the most quietest flight I've ever been on Nick because everybody was just fine finance for nine hours we also had two jets beside us as well um flying over America what's it we got you mean you started your state you said jets Air Force jets yes yeah they could yeah they followed us uh I'm so Atlantic or just up yeah no just just just they could they could turn off just as we gone over back over the Atlantic what's the story and then we also found out the down just down the road from our villa was the the train the the army training was there and that's where the the the plane the terrorists did drove the planes into the train time oh he did his training but yeah they were there so they cornered it all off and was oh my god it's so close but yeah yeah I remember seeing in a documentary how they did the training for years how

2:08:07how much preparation went into that what the stories we're hearing are quite incredible and we shall return to them of course uh with more of your recollections of 9-11 and events here in the UK of course we need to the impact that we had and we'll pick up on that as well Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 03456060973 recollections of 9-11 I think well I know I did this five years ago I in fact I did five years I went to New York and I covered it from New York five years after the event but I don't think I've ever heard such powerful calls as we're hearing and testimony now trevising vexalancy you're on the radio it's not a competition but what's your story trev a good morning yeah good morning I used to work at that time for one I think the world figures computer company and I'm a bit of a new sound so I always had a call every morning yeah we great morning with five guys from the states different parts of the state and eight European guys who work for me okay and we because it's a worldwide saying that's what we needed to do and I left my TV always on the news just the

2:09:11sound turns out and it was between 830 and 930 this call so are you in UK then or in the US I'm in the UK you're in the UK right okay yeah and I was in the UK then as well yeah yeah yeah and uh just used to run this world wide so okay and um I couldn't believe what I've seen of course these people then coming on the call again morning how are you none of them had any idea what was going on and I they thought I mean it was some of you are the call saying essentially very surreal yeah you know it's like a movie that's made up yeah and I had to talk them through it and then all of a sudden bang the second plane came in yeah oh my jeez I just I didn't know what to say and they say you're crazy then some of them started to get access to tv's across Europe because the call never we never did the call we talked about this for me because it was such a worldwide job I had the next day there was there was no data there was no emails no nothing I remember yeah and my cousin

2:10:13was due to be in there that's and he you've met a girl the night before and decided to cancel his visit to the World Trade Center and his mother was going nuts because he couldn't until the very next day yeah the 13 so mum's thinking the boy's gone to World Trade Center right yep absolutely he was going to do it tour you know a tourist thing yeah so yeah for me I just can't get those images out of my out of my mind I don't need a TV to be reminded did you lose any colleagues if you were yeah I did one of the team was went into the Pentagon and she is forever more immortalized within one of your colleagues was on the plane they flow into the Pentagon is that right yeah she died she died sorry that's okay but she was a lovely lovely girl really really good and yeah I be I'm sorry he was talking for the company paid up the pension and everything else they treated their family extremely well that's good do you know by a truly spooky spooky coincidence they

2:11:18started building the Pentagon on this day in 1941 it's extraordinary isn't it just I'm sorry you lost your colleague Trevor thank you and well done to that firm I know so many firms went above and beyond in looking after why's going to say their employees sadly they weren't their employees they're employees relatives Trevor thank you Harry and Horsham Harry what can you tell me good morning oh hi Nick so I was five years old on 9 11 actually and the thing about my story is that so my dad for 25 years was a pilot the Virgin Atlanta okay that's cool and he was flying that day operating a lunchtime service from Heathrow to JFK and they're about to leave at lunchtime morning time Eastern US and as they're about to push back from the gate their dispatcher comes on board and says we've just heard on the news that a light aircraft has flown to the world Tracy that's right that's what was the initial thought yeah everybody thought it was an accident everybody thought it was you know maybe somebody had a heart had a heart attack and a sesna so the flight engineer sitting behind my dad casually says oh we'll take a walk down there

2:12:19tomorrow and have a look because they were going to be on a four day trip not thinking that you know anything they get out to the taxiway and the second plane hits but because they've left the gate they're not told anything the only thing they're told by air traffic control at Heathrow is you need to call your company you got to go back to the gate they get back to the gate the same dispatcher comes back on and he says the second power has been hit they're saying it's terrorists and my dad tells me about this recollection of their just being significant distress and upset in the cabins because obviously a lot of those passengers he was taking home would have had friends in Loha Manhattan would have had friends who worked at the World Trade Center they they were stuck on the tomat at Heathrow for a couple hours and the cabin crew actually prepared a meal service whilst everybody was waiting because after the third plane hit they launched that ground stop in the US which stops you know what was the expression get all the god damn flights out of the skies or something like that exactly exactly so he so he managed to get home that evening but before he before he got home for our house we've got it he phoned my mom and my mom put me on the phone

2:13:22to him and and you were five you were five at this time just a clown five yeah and I've got home from school and I remember seeing things on the news and being five years old I remember saying to my dad dad was that your plane that hit the building because you think that your dad the only pilot as well you know what I mean and ever since then ever since then it's kind of really stayed with me and I've I've read a lot I've been to New York a lot my partner was living in New York for the past couple of years doing grad school so I was going down to the memorial quite a bit it's it's one of those kind of really early experiences that I think has you know and obviously being so my mum was cabin crew my dad was a pilot so their whole you know job situation basically overnight was you know working behind a bomb proof cockpit door and you know so there was it was it was you know it was it was quite a significant impact for a fight how many you might not recall as you were five but how many days we should get grounded how long before he could start working well so I've got his log book and his log book entries really interesting because it says return to stand NYC terrorist

2:14:24attack and then it's about two weeks after that he operates a service to Barbados really yeah so he must have had scheduled days off after the New York trip yeah but even so there was no there was no movement you know I mean there was no movement for days afterwards I mean I'm sure you're going to remember so yeah I can I can is dad still with us yeah yeah that's the with us just retired he's living my life now he's just chilling out he's living the life of a retired pilot good luck to the man Harry that's thank you very much again best wishes to your family Georgian Redbridge George your recollections good morning I good morning it nice to talk to you for the first time good to have you yes 911 to be honest the September is a special month for me and the emits of feelings because I might my date of birth is in growth September for tomorrow and I was working yes I was working on the 911 in Portugal so I'm from Portugal in these big

2:15:27towers as well in IT with my colleagues and we went downstairs for a cup of coffee and to become back and then we saw on the TV or this TV was switch dogs switch it on or was it short for us at first the first the first plane you look like that I could believe we couldn't believe it looked like a film something but then we start real I think the series of the the matter and then the second plane they man the heat so my I have a big family in the United States I don't know that every single day used to pass every day under the the the the the the three towers under the water it's on the subway yeah yeah and I have a family there much of hours between my four years old and six years old are leaving in Jersey in New Jersey you were living in Jersey by your the day in New Jersey yes between my parents and they decided to go back at the time so yeah hold on was your uncle caught up in it I just want to clarify that oh no no no my uncle my uncle that they

2:16:31didn't didn't didn't even go I see everything that yeah he used to go to work and but yeah and then on 15th September was my my wedding my wedding so this is a busy tip time of the air for you yes it was and very and this is mark my mark my my my wedding my birthday and everything and all the mix of feeling everyone was in wedding happy obviously yes but the same time the because of the loss of life there was so much a loss of life thank you George Jeremy just under a minute briefly you were serving in the air force at the time what happened yeah I was having a massive great row with my boss in August and I was brilliant London right and the thawton stuck his head around the door and said a few meters they just flown an aircraft into the World Trade Center and both of us was so locked into our row they went in one ear and out the other

2:17:32and then the 50 minutes later he came back again he said I really think you need to come and see what's going on out here so the oh my you were going hammering songs it just went straight one in one ear out the other yeah and the thing is we had to fix our differences then because of the cause we started one of the biggest demobilizations ever into Afghanistan and I was sent off to work on a spy plane that we we eventually put out there but it was it was a it was a really horrible horrible day it was a horrible day Jeremy thank you and of course you were subsequently mobilized with the Air Force look there's been some tough listening so let me give you the Samaritan's number if you've been affected by it is that it's 116123 it's a free call and they as you know 24 hours 116123 if you missed any of the day show listen back on our free global player app or the OBC app where you can stay up to date with all the latest news videos and opinion download the official LBC app for free from your app store now that's me for the week James O'Brien's coming up the other side of the news here on LBC I'll be back with you Monday morning from seven mid-time do have a safe weekend this has been a global production