251. Dr. Labib Ghulmiyyah: How to Improve Sperm Count and Fertility Naturally

For me, I always say health span starts in the womb because the maternal environment is what the

feet environment is. It's going to be your early stages of life and then eventually your adult

diseases. 1% year-over-year reduction in sperm count, 2% year-over-year reduction in fertility rates,

and you start to combine these statistics. 1% doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize,

okay, well, 10 years or down 10%. If you look at the sperm come dropping, and at the same time,

you see, for example, the production of plastic and other chemicals is going up. Small,

those are just that can accumulate and cause problems with time. What are some of the

must-haves or must-dos that society, men and women both need to be engaged in on a regular basis?

So I think it's always a good opportunity to

What if I told you that the health of your future child is being decided right now

before you even conceive? Today's guest is someone I met halfway around the world in Saudi Arabia

at the Zinos Long Jeviti Summit. We recorded a podcast there and it got so much traction we had

to bring him back to finish the conversation. Dr. Labib is a board-certified OB-GYN

specializing in maternal fetal medicine, fertility, and women's health. But what makes him

different is how he approaches pregnancy, not as a 280-day event, but as a thousand-day journey

that starts long before conception and extends throughout the first two years of a baby's life.

In this episode, we're diving into the fertility crisis no one's talking about, plummeting sperm

counts, rising miscarriage rates, and why lifestyle, not just genetics, is programming the next

generation. We're also getting into the black box warning, the FDA just lifted on hormone replacement

therapy. Why 50 million women needlessly suffered and how migration, stress, and even sleep

debt are secretly sabotaging fertility? This is for the young couples trying to conceive. The

parents who want healthy, resilient kids and anyone who wants to understand how the first thousand

days of life set the stage for longevity. So welcome to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host

human biologist Gary Breka and today we're going down the road of fertility, pregnancy, hormones,

and how to give your kids the ultimate shot at a long, healthy life.

Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host human biologist Gary Breka,

where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between.

Today, we're actually catering to those young couples trying to conceive, looking at how they

have a healthy pregnancy. Listen up, men. It's not just for the ladies anymore. I have a doctor

here today to talk about how couples can prepare for pregnancy, fertility, healthy sperm counts,

and really healthy, happy babies that are going to live a long time. And we're going to go down the

road of nutrition, pregnancy, wellness. I'm so excited for this podcast. We actually started this

podcast in Saudi Arabia. We were short on time and we had so many positive comments that I brought

this guest back today. So welcome back to the podcast, Dr. LeBeeb Goma. Thank you, Gary. Thank you.

I'm so ready excited for round two of the discussion. Yeah, so am I. And ironically,

we both live in Miami. Exactly. Yeah. So I don't know what we did to sign. We should do it again.

I don't know why we did the podcast in Saudi Arabia. We had to go halfway around the world.

But we were both at the Zinos Long Jebadi Summit. It was an amazing summit. I mean,

that side of the world is really waking up to wellness, longevity. It's just astounding what's

going on over there with development and their commitment to health and wellness and keeping people

out of the system. But I really enjoyed the podcast that felt like we were just getting into the

meat. And then we had to cut the time short. So I'm really excited to run this with you today.

You know, I remember you talking about this pregnancy being a thousand days of pregnancy.

You know, the 365 days plus another 700 days. And you know, I'm concerned about, you know,

fertility rates, the drop in sperm counts, you know, when when I was at a Maha meeting recently.

And they were talking about the 1% year-over-year reduction in sperm count,

2% year-over-year reduction in fertility rates. And you start to combine these statistics.

1% doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize, okay, well, in 10 years, we're down 10%

in sperm count and another possibly 20% in fertility. And what do you think is the biggest contributor

to these things? Well, I think lifestyle is absolutely a risk factor for how sperm counts are dropping.

If you look at the sperm count dropping and at the same time, you see, for example,

the production of plastic and other chemicals is going up. So one curve is coming down, one is

coming up. I mean, it's probably a contributing factor, maybe not the only factor, but there is

something there that is fire happening. The sperm counts are dropping. And also we can we're seeing

more miscarriages. We're seeing more couples going to, you know, artificial reproductive technologies,

like IVF, not only... And that's not an easy process. Yes, it is. It is a complicated process.

But today, there's, you know, more advanced technology that would probably make it easier on

couples, but again, it is time consuming, it's stressful, it would cause anxiety. And then plus,

you have the women go through testing, injections, the retrieval process, and all of that. And then,

of course, then, you know, you have the pregnancy, which could sometimes be twins and triplets and,

you know, which are, which makes things more complicated. Yeah, you can't get pregnant. Then all of a sudden,

it's like, bam, there are three for you. So a lot of people criticize and say, oh, people are

going to IVF very quickly. They're not being patient, but there is more infertility out there.

Right. And I think you mentioned the thousand days. Yes, the pregnancy is usually 280 days,

40 weeks. But I call it the thousand days because there's the before, which is super important.

Yeah. And then the pregnancy itself, the two eight. And then the first two years of life,

which I think dictates a lot of our biology and how we're going to become, you know,

later on, if we're going to develop diseases. So even the first two years of life, whether you're

being breastfed, whether depending on what you're eating, what are you being exposed to in the first

two years of life, your epigenetics will change. And this is where the biology is, you know, programmable

in the best way. Of course, we can change things later on. But the earlier you do it, the better,

you're going to be able to cope with life and the stresses of life. Yeah. You know, I have this

theory that in this whole longevity, biohacking, anti-aging movement, what I've seen is kind of an

underlying theme. Nobody really talks about is a lot of what we're doing is just getting back to

the basics, whole food diet, sleep, mobility, sunlight, grounding, you know, sense of community,

sense of purpose. And if couples are listening to this podcast right now, and I really would encourage,

especially young couples that are trying to conceive to listen to this, you know, I've two kids

that are coming into this age. My son Cole is 25. And he's getting married in September,

and he and his fiance have been together a long time, and he's starting to have this conversation.

And, you know, I know there's a lot of people in their peer group. My daughter's 27, and she's

starting to think about this too. So this is something that's very near and dear to my heart. And

so for young couples that are listening to this, you know, I think that we think of pregnancy and

conception and birth and what happens to the the fetus and the child during this two-year period

as largely being the woman's role, right? She gets pregnant, she has the baby, she cares for the

baby, she breast feeds the baby. But I liked what we began to talk about in Saudi because you were

really talking about it as a couple's journey. And like the contribution that men can make

to ensuring or at least increasing the odds that they have really healthy, happy,

amazing children with strong immune systems that are really prepared for life's journey.

So I wonder if we could back up a little bit from the event of pregnancy. And so talk about this

road to a healthy pregnancy for young couples, men and women.

Yeah, I think what your son Cole is doing is super important. He's, you know, talking about it

and preparing for it. And I think you are also excited to become a grandfather.

Although, although you don't look like one, but I think it's not only the parents, the grand

parents also get, you know, excited. And I think, you know, I haven't felt this yet, but I'm sure

the feeling of a grandfather or, you know, having son of a son or a daughter of that's probably gives

you the lot more joy in life. And so weird because I never want to be a grand dad. And I'm like,

so excited to be, it just makes me sound old. And feel old.

And Lebanon, we say like the son of the son is more precious than your son. So I think, you

know, the next generation is so important. So that's how I think we need to take care of ourselves

before going to that journey. So preparing is super important. And yes, the dad gives half of

the genetic material. Right. So how come, you know, people say he doesn't have a role. It has a huge

role. I think 50% of the genes are from the dad. So therefore, it's super important for the

dad to be in a good health. Right. The problem is that when we're 20, 25, we think we're invincible.

Nothing's going on. Oh, my son doesn't think he can be killed by a bullet. Yeah. So we might not

be careful. And I think a lot of people just go with the flow, you know, maybe get into drinking,

exploring things in life, which is fine. But I think when you're ready for a pregnancy, you need to

back up a little bit, go back to the basics, what our ancestors did in the past. Today, we're

doing the same thing, like you said, but maybe with more advanced technology and trying to get

results a bit faster. But, you know, thinking of your nutrition, your sleep, your energy levels,

your focus, come in all these. If you if you work on few things, you don't have to work on all of

your pillars. And actually, this is where I, you know, thought about what I call the vitality

formula. And for me, that's basically a very small, simple approach, because people get

overwhelmed. I'm fatigued. I'm not healthy. I'm broke. Right. And actually, those are only

signals that your body is telling you about. And you need to start working on one of those pillars.

If you work on your sleep, your nutrition, you're all at the same time. Initially, you might not

get good results. So I think starting on one pillar at a time, and then maybe stacking them together

at some point. And that's how that's how you will change your lifestyle. But this should be for

men and women, because they're uniting their, you know, their gonads and their sperm and their

eggs in order to create a human. So you have to prepare such a miracle. And, you know, I like some

of the simple advice I want to hit touch on some of those that I know you've spoken about, but

moderate exercise, resistance training, something you call the critical window, six months of

consistent exercise, actually showing measurable improvements in sperm count, sperm motility,

morphology of sperm, and reducing DNA fragmentation. So this is like new, even for someone like me,

that that male, a young man can have that much influence over the caliber of his sperm, which

obviously is 50% of the way to creating this human life. So, you know, talking specifically to the

men, what are some things that young men can do? Stop drinking probably right off the bat.

And then the obvious drug smoking, but, you know, maybe limit it or discontinue the drinking, but

to have the healthiest sperm, you know, you hear, well, you shouldn't get into a hot tub and,

you know, you probably shouldn't be an ultra endurance athlete, which, sadly, for my son,

Cole is not of him. It's not going to want to hear that. He's running 100 miles. And like,

he's doing the 10 iron man's at the end of the year, but he, so we'll do it next year. But,

you know, if young men are listening to this, like, what are, you know, some simple shifts that

they can make to really sort of prepare their body to be producing healthy sperm that, you know,

improve the morphology sperm count motility. I mean, the sperm is the output of what your

endocrine organ, which is the testes produce. So it's going to reflect a lot of this inflammation

in your body. If you're not sleeping well, you know, you have high insulin levels. If you're not

hydrated, well, all this is going to show up. So for me, sperm count is like kind of one of the vital

signs of our body. I tell a lot of my, you know, friends or like patients that, you know, get tested,

do a sperm count. You can do a home sperm count. I know there's the guidelines don't, you know,

recommend a certain age, but why not? Why not see where you are? Because you don't want to be

surprised later on when you're ready to have kids. Check your sperm count. If it's good, it means

you're doing the right things. If it's starting to get worse, maybe you need to look back at your

lifestyle and start, you know, changing things. Like you said, hot tops, putting your laptop on your,

you know, lap for hours and hours because of all this, you know, emission that comes out in the

heat. Our cell phones are in our pockets a lot of times. But I think toxins and what we're eating,

what we're putting in our bodies on our skin, because, you know, men are using more

person care products today. So everything can play a role. Yeah. It accumulates those small doses

of toxins can accumulate and become cumulative. So you don't have to be poisoned by mercury or

lead to get affected. You can have small doses that can accumulate and cause problems with time.

Yeah. So definitely exercising, we know how much it will decrease the inflammation, improve

your insulin, your muscle mass, all this will reflect on what's coming out of your body.

So it's sperm. Yeah. And you know, a lot of women, I'm a big fan of genetic methylation testing

and I've been pounding that soapbox for years. But there is a correlation between gene mutations

in women, especially like MTHFR and frequency of miscarriage and even infertility and certain

birth defects. And I won't say that they're causal, but there's certainly a high correlation.

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back to the ultimate human podcast. So would you recommend that young women get

methylation testing and then maybe start to address some of those

methylation deficiencies by supplementation or dietary changes?

I mean, if I answer this question, a lot of people are going to also put me in the controversy,

a standpoint that I do agree with you, that yes, those could play a role. They're not maybe the

major thing. If you go by the guidelines today of our, you know, ACOG and other thing, they do

not recommend to do those on everyone, even with women that have miscarriages. But again, I think

it's logical. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, the studies, you know, could be not well designed. So

you can criticize a lot of those things. If it's a simple test and can make a difference and

the treatment is, you know, folate or exchanging their diet. Why not? In certain situations.

Yeah. So I wouldn't say test everybody today. I mean, I next year, if I come back to your

podcast, I might say, I might say differently, but today based on what data we have, I wouldn't

like screen everyone, but yes, maybe someone with, you know, multiple miscarriages, a family

instead of newer to defect, we might, you know, check those, but not across the board. I would

definitely supplement them and make sure, you know, they are, well, their nutrition has, you know,

enough folate, colline, omega-3, all these things in order to improve the outcome of the

practice. Yeah. I'm going to listen to podcast show notes, some of the supplements or at least

key nutrients that you talk about for sperm quality, zinc, selenium, methylated B vitamins,

huge fan, ethyl folate, omega-3s, antioxidants like C and E and cocaine, and lycopene,

which is like in tomatoes and watermelon, bell peppers,

which lycopene's role in improving sperm quality? That's kind of a new one.

They're also a very important antioxidant. So anything that could lower your oxidation will

improve how the DNA or how the sperms, you know, multiply and divide. And that will have

less fragmentation. Of course, the data is not robust on, you know, just lycopene supplementation,

but it comes as part of the, you know, multinutrient or the rainbow that man and woman should eat in

order to improve their gametes. Yeah. I love this idea of couples going into this and coming out

of this together, right? I mean, I have three children and I can tell you when we had our first child

at 27. And, you know, I really did view this as really being my wife's role at the time.

Yeah. And not really realizing the impact that I could have had and a grace of God, we had three

very healthy children and they're all doing amazing as adults. But, you know, I wish I'd had

this information then because I was already doing some of those things. It was fairly healthy.

It wasn't drinking a lot. It was exercising. I was eating a pretty decent diet. But, you know,

had I known this, I think, you know, it would have been a little different going through this

with my wife at the time as a couple instead of it being such a unilateral journey.

Yeah. I think also to simplify things, we don't want couples to worry much about this and cause

anxiety. But today, you know, we're living in a toxin and a soup of toxin. So we have to be more

careful. Maybe, you know, ancestors didn't worry much about this because they were, you know,

having healthier food, less processed food, less toxins. But today, there is some, there's an enemy

that's hitting us. So we have to be careful. Men and women before, during and then, especially

after the pregnancy, I think the support from the men helping, you know, raise the kid, all the

habits that we have. There's a lot of studies if the father is athletic and he likes sports,

your kids automatically will mimic and will see things that we do at home.

Yeah. That's amazing. So it's like, it's like some kind of genetic programming that,

absolutely. You know, where characteristics are passed on. And even though you can't point to

this gene causes you to have this outcome. If you have this gene, you're going to like sports.

If you like to have this gene, you know, you're going to be more cerebral or lepraned or right

brained. But it is kind of fascinating how characteristics are passed from generation to generation.

And I'm actually been reading and studying about trauma even being passed from generation to

generation embedded in our, you know, our, our genetics, which is really fascinating.

Trauma stress, all these, you know, change how our genes are expressing. And if you're pregnant

during that time and you're under so much stress, then this could affect, you know, because for,

for me, I always say health span starts in the womb. So it even starts before birth. So whatever

the mom is feeling, if she's chronically stressed and she's not happy, this will reflect into the

blood flow to the placenta. And therefore nutrients will be less, you know, given to the baby. And then

their genes are going to be expressed in a different way. So when they're born, they might be born

at a lower weight than they're supposed to be. And this is going to, you know, lead to other

chronic maybe diseases later on. So, yeah, everything is related. And the more you read, the more you

learn, the less you know. And so it's so complicated how the genes interact among each other.

We are what our environment is. So I think it's, it goes both way. Whatever we give our environment,

it gives us back. And I think that that relationship we should control because the

maternal environment is what the feet environment is. And that's going to be your, your early stages

of life. And then eventually your adult diseases. Yeah. Today we talk a lot about trying to live,

you know, longer or healthier, better. And we, most of people start in their 40s or 50s. Oh,

today I want to start living better. And, you know, whatever I've done in the past,

let's forget it. No, I mean, I know we have to prepare for our, you know, last 10 years or

marginal decades that a lot of experts talk about. This is important. But I think starting early,

and I see a shift, the new generation, the new generation are more health conscience than what

maybe we were. So I'm, I'm happy that there's more, you know, awareness of that. But simplifying

things, not complicating things, not causing anxiety, empowering women and men and couples,

anybody that wants to have a kid, even if you're going through IVF or egg freezing, you want to

freeze your eggs to maybe later on use them. Also, you have to go through that process, make sure

you're a gutter. Yes, of course, of course. You know, I, I really love this concept. So,

you know, prepping for the pregnancy, then, then you conceive. And where do you fall on

supplementation during the actual pregnancy, methylated multivitamins or, you know,

methylated prenatals or non-methoded prenatals? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

You know, for a woman to be supplementing with during that time of pregnancy for

adhesion and healthy fetal growth, where do you fall on that? Well, there's a couple of, you

know, nutrients that are super important, you know, including iron, for example. I think that's

the number one metal that, you know, people think about because the placenta needs iron.

The baby needs iron. The, the, the, the, the, the color of the placenta. Exactly. Yeah.

And the, and the woman's blood volume almost doubles, you know, during pregnancy. So,

she becomes a little bit anemic or what we call hemodilution. So you're going to need, you know,

more iron for multiple things in pregnancy. So iron is number one. If you are iron deficient

or you have an issue with your iron absorption or metabolism, you will have a higher risk of

developing a smaller baby, what we call fetal growth restriction. So iron is, is key, especially

if you don't get it in your diet or you're not absorbing it well. And then, of course, you have

the B vitamins, which are basic frameworks for DNA synthesis. You have to have those.

Vitamin D, there's a lot of data about vitamin D levels and developing diabetes in pregnancy,

preeclampsia. Of course, it's a point for the bone. So vitamin D is, actually, it's considered

like a hormone. So vitamin D is super important. But again, you know, you have to supplement

the right amounts. So checking labs, supplementing them with the right dose or the good quality

supplement. If you can give them those through a diet, it'll be even better, absolutely. But

unfortunately, the diet is not always available for everyone to have the optimum levels in pregnancy.

So that's why we have to supplement. So yeah, a good prenatal vitamins that have those including

Colleen, the EHA for brain development. All of those are important today to take the right

supplement. I think in the very near future, and I think there's a couple of companies now working on

like a very specific tailored prenatal for every single patient. So for example, a woman might not

need that much vitamin D, but she needs more iron, she needs more Colleen. So based on testing

on Neutrogenomics, we can tailor a specific supplement for, you know, Mrs. X instead of us taking

the same multivitamin across the board. Yeah, yeah, that's another thing. I think this is coming

very soon, and it makes sense. Yeah, it makes it makes a lot of sense. If you don't have,

for example, the MTHF argumentation, you might not need, let's say, that much folates versus someone

who has it, for example. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So you know, I've read a lot of literature

around vaginal versus cesarean section delivery, and I know it's a confusion around this. There's

people that fall into both camps, people say it doesn't matter at all. There are OBGYNs,

the one that was, or his heart clinic director, that's a big believer in trying to have a

vaginal birth to the extent that you can. And a lot of that has to do with how the fetus is

inoculated, you know, through the vaginal canal. Where do you fall in that, you know, conundrum of

cesarean versus vaginal birth? And if there was a preference, you know, which would have my

straight answer is the way we're supposed to be born as vaginal. That's how God created us.

But of course, with advancement in science, c-section became available, and they do save a lot of

lives. They can make a huge difference in certain situations. But the goal is always to try to have

a normal delivery, as long as it's safe for the mom and safe for the baby. This is the way to go,

because there's a lot of benefits from the way the baby, you know, moves in the canal,

all these cardinal movements of labor. And then eventually the inoculation from the vaginal

flora, the skin to skin touching that happens. There's definitely a lot of benefits. Otherwise,

I don't think God would have created us to deliver that way. But the c-sections have a role.

And I think, like I said, they save lives. But the problem is like everything in medicine,

people abuse them. And I think a lot is more for convenience. For convenience for the patient,

I'm not talking about doctors. I mean, I've done plenty of c-sections. But those who are

done for indications, but a lot of times the patients would come to use a, I want the c-section,

because I don't want to go through labor. It's a long process. I don't, I want to keep my pelvic floor,

you know, healthy, because I heard vaginal delivery can cause damage to my pelvic floor. And we know

if it's done the right way, the right timing, it will not cause sexual dysfunction or other things.

And yes, it is a stressful time. You will rehab eventually your pelvic muscles through special

treatments and therapies with specialists. But it's way less risky than a c-section.

At the end of c-section is a surgery. So there is bleeding infection, you could injure organs.

So we keep c-sections when it's needed. And I, you know, my message to people don't abuse it.

Not just because you want to deliver on a certain day of the year. Yeah, I want to pick the birthday.

Yeah, I want to deliver on the 16th to 2 o'clock in the afternoon and you can now.

Yeah, because one c-section after another is going to lead to more complications.

Now we know after let's say a third c-section, if you have an issue with your placenta,

you can end up, you know, having what we call placenta acrita. And that can lead to death and

complications. So c-sections are great when needed, but our ultimate goal is to deliver normally

in a safe way for the mom and for the baby. That's, that's, I agree with, you know, any physician.

And I think this is the oath that we, we swear by to make sure, you know, moms are safe and

babies are safe without being heroic and then using the c-section when needed. Right, you know, and,

and, you know, so you go through this birth process and then you have this brand new

fetus in the world. For someone that has a birth that was non-vaginal, that was through c-section,

are the things we can do to mitigate some of those consequences of having not had

a vaginal birth like prebiotic or probiotic supplementation or trying to

inoculate the baby's, you know, gut flora. So they're not so colloquial and, and have some of

these other, you know, skin conditions and others because what's fascinating to me lately is,

is, you know, the impact that gut microbiome has even at a fetal level. I mean, we know that

adults, when they do long course of antibiotics or other things to actually destroy their gut flora,

they have all kinds of consequences that we don't draw back to the gut. And now we know the

importance of the gut microbiome. And so if they missed that inoculation period, vaginally,

are there ways for, you know, young parents to actually supplement these kids with...

I think the first step, the most important first step is to do skin to skin.

Put the baby on the mom's skin. And if the mom can't let's say she's in a c-section and

it's not feasible sometimes, then the dad. So even our skin flora can help inoculate.

There are, you know, few trials, motor doing like inoculating the vaginal flora or smearing the

babies. I don't think, you know, there's any, you know, proof yet that it will make a huge difference

in the long term, but those are still ongoing studies. But I think starting with the skin,

putting the baby, even in the c-section, they can put the baby on the mom's skin while the

obstetrician is finishing the c-section. That will help a lot. Calm the baby's nervous system,

you know, because the baby will start hearing the mom's heartbeat, which he or she was hearing

when they were in utero. So putting the baby there on the skin will improve breastfeeding

chances. Plus they will, of course, get inoculated by the mom's skin. And then that's can do it.

So I'm sure you've seen a lot of pictures of dads putting the kids on their chest. Of course,

if they have a lot of hair to, you know, shave it so that the skin, but touching the skin to skin

is so important. Like from the first, you know, the pheromones. Yes, the first minute or two minutes

of life are critical. So as soon as you remove the baby, you put the baby on the mom's skin.

In a c-section or a normal delivery, I think that's one of the first steps that will make a huge

difference. Probiotics and other things, I'm not really aware of any, you know, robust studies on

that, but it makes sense is to replace, you know, whatever the probiotics needed, but nothing like

the probiotics of the mom. Because her vaginal flora will change based on the trimesters of pregnancy

and then at the time of the delivery, it will be exactly the composition of her bacteria will be

exactly what the baby needs. That's so wild. Yeah, so supplementing with probiotics, I don't know

which one, you know, that's so I don't think we're there, but maybe in the future we can maybe test

the probiotics of the mom and then tailor or create a probiotic specific and give that to the baby.

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. So all these, all this precision medicine, I think, is on the way.

But today, I think doing the skin to skin immediately is probably the best thing you can do for

your kid. I am so proud of this pillow and let me tell you why. When I started to do the research on

the amount of chemicals, glues, synthetics, volatile organic compounds, jet fuels that you find in

pillows and mattresses, it made me sick. And those things actually will show up in your urine.

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So amazing. I had a Harvard scientist on my podcast actually when we were in Dubai,

Dubai and they do in his laboratory, they do these customized probiotics where they take a stool

sample and they culture your flora and they look at the different strains of bacteria and

which ones you're deficient in, which ones you have an excess in. And what's really fascinating

was how much they could predict about the person having nothing other than their gut flora.

Their actual profile of their gut flora, like this is somebody who gets seasonal flus

more frequently than the average. This is somebody who doesn't have a lot of endurance. This is

somebody who is very likely to have skin conditions like egzema psoriasis. It was incredible,

the mapping that they've done from specific gut flora both in excess and in deficiencies to

like these manifestations in the real world. You are what you eat and you are what you're

surrounded with, your friends, your community, you eventually blend into it. So whatever you're

surrounded with becomes you. I believe the gut is so important and especially in pregnancy because

there's a lot of interaction between the gut, the vagina, the gut and the uterus and I'm sure there's

a gut placental connection somehow, which we still probably don't know about. But this is amazing

to be able to, let's say tailor a specific probiotic, maybe to give to the baby eventually. So maybe

we should test pregnant patients and tailor a probiotic for them so that in case they end up

with a C section, we give it to the baby. I mean, I don't know, that might be a nice project,

you and I may be able to create. So I think skin to skin

the best thing you can do for your kid and minute one of life.

Yeah. And then in the precious important months immediately after delivery, I think the

consensus is in that if you embrace feed, you should be breastfeeding. And for whatever reason,

a lot of women can't either for anatomical reasons or other reasons they can't.

And so now they fall back on having the feed baby's formula. And I had the

Health and Human Services Secretary, but I also had a gentleman named Kyle D'Amantes,

who's the head of human foods at the US FDA. And one of the big focuses and projects that

he's aligned with and they're really researching right now are infant formulas. And do we really need

to put pro-inflammatory seed oils in as the, you know, sole means or major means of fat,

of these fatty acids? So if a woman has to, it can't press feed for whatever reason,

you know, I know a lot of the young pregnant women, especially in mice, or I've got two of my

company right now, and they're ordering their infant formulas from Europe.

Because they've gone down the rabbit hole of the research and they're like, they're just

better quality formulations there. They're seed oil-free, and here there's some regulatory

guidelines that force different ingredients to have to be in there because that's to meet a certain

profile. So where do you fall in infant formula? And is there, I've seen both sides of the spectrum,

you know, Dr. Barbara O'Neill, or she's not Dr. O'Neill, but Barbara O'Neill saying, well,

Coach Milk is very close to mother's milk, and then I've had other people say that there's

nothing wrong with infant formulas, and some people say that you should only get it from Europe.

I don't think there's anything like the breast milk, because like, you know, the vaginal microbiome,

for example, the microbiome, your milk consistency changes, you know, per-, so if you deliver,

let's say, at 27 weeks, the consistency of the milk that comes out is going to be different

than if you deliver a term. So it's made in a way to give the baby what the baby needs at that

age. Oh, wow. Yes, the antibodies that are in it, there's no way a formula can mimic breast milk.

And unfortunately, yes, like you said, there might be a lot of things added to the milk to make it

maybe more tasty for the-, for the baby that might be hurting. I'm not an expert, I'm not a

pediatrician, so I cannot comment that, but yes, my-, to go first is milk, is breast milk.

The other option, of course, to try to get the least amount of, you know, formula that's not

inflammatory or causes gas. And you can know, like, for example, in my experience, my wife rest fed for

three months, then she couldn't anymore, so we moved to formula. We had to change 10 formulas

in order for the kid to not have gas and colleagues. So which is not normal to have, you know,

colleagues and why that severe colleagues. So it might be one formula not working for that specific

kid, but yeah, the world of formulas, you know, is a huge problem. A lot of hospitals are

shying away from having formulas on board. Some, some hospitals used to give away formulas

on discharge. Right. A lot of them stop that because, you know, they don't want to promote those

formulas. So it's, it's a difficult situation, but again, the first two years of life, if you

give the baby those inflammatory components, you're going to make things worse. So try to find the

most natural, you know, way, there are, you know, donor milks that, you know, women donate some

milk, it could be maybe a better option, not everybody accepts those. But yeah, breast feeding

should not be difficult. I think putting too much pressure on the woman is going to make her

maybe not like to breastfeed or feel this, you know, social pressure. By the way, doing

skin to skin in the first minute will improve your breastfeeding rates. I've seen at first hand,

a patient telling me, I don't want a breastfeed. Please don't even open the subject. I don't

want a breastfeed. Don't even tell me the benefits. I know I'm doing formula from minute one.

And then I remember we're doing rounds and the baby was in the room and the pediatrician was

talking to the woman and she's like, can I try something and just put this baby next to your breast

and she took off, of course, her blouse and put the baby, the baby just crawled to the nipple

and started sucking. Really? Yeah. And the mom started crying. She's like, I want a breastfeed.

You know, so, so, so, so, so, so really like with it before trying, you have a lot of oxytocin that

comes out, which will make you calm and bond you with the baby. I'm not, we don't pressure women.

We empower them to try to breastfeed. Yes, there are sometimes anatomical things that will not

let you breastfeed. But if you can breastfeed, try even a month, even two weeks, even few days will

make a huge difference in the baby. But going back to formula, I really don't have an opinion about

it because I know there's so many formulas out there and each one says they're the best and

but they can never mimic breast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm deep down the rabbit hole of this

right now. So when I come to some conclusions, I'll I'll share them with you. I'd love to get

you. Yeah. And then maybe we can eventually, like I said, do tailored or or or specific formulas

for each baby depending on their on their gut microbiome. Yeah. So maybe we need to look into that

in the future. I love that. I love that concept. So now these couples are on this journey together.

The man still, you know, plays plays a huge role. I mean, the father's presence we know,

especially in young children is critically important, breastfeeding critically important.

But yeah, I'm in deep down the rabbit hole of this whole toxic exposure and pro-inflammatory compounds

and a lot of in a lot of different infant formulas. But you know, the sad thing is it's restricted

by the regulatory guidelines. Like you have to have this and you can't have that. And so it limits

the capacity to to structure these in ways that might be healthier for babies. I think you're

going to see a lot of that change because human foods, the US FDA is really open to widening

these lanes to the extent that there's evidence, you know, that to to say that this is priority.

I think this should be, you know, the number one priority. Yeah. Because we are what we eat and

you know, we need to have a nice, you know, clean, you know, food supply. Like I said, some people

going to other countries to get, you know, different type of food. So no, I think this should be our

priority because a lot of the diseases are related to food. We know that. And so as I know,

with UIN, you're not only dealing with deliveries. Obviously, you're also dealing with women's health

issues. And there was a big announcement by the FDA recently, we're moving black box warnings

from female hormone therapy. And they corrected the narrative around the women's health initiative

study that incorrectly was, you know, when they, when they didn't, most people don't read a publish

study. And so they take the narrative and the headlines that comes from headlines. And they

intentionally or unintentionally, I mean, I have to think that it was intentional. You know,

redirected women away from hormone therapy. And, you know, if you talk to Marty McCarry that had

commissioned her for the FDA, he'll say that 50 million women needlessly suffered because they

were told that, you know, hormone therapy increased their risk of breast cancer when, in fact,

they'd actually decreased their risk of breast cancer. There was not even, there's certainly nothing

causal. And there was a correlation between taking these, you know, having hormone therapy and

increasing your raise rate of breast cancer. What I find fascinating is, you know, men

have paused for a lot of women's, is beginning earlier and earlier, right? It can start in their

late 30s. So you start to have these weird symptoms, mood changes, weight gain, water retention,

fatigue, brain fog, you know, mood and emotional issues. And immediately, I think most women look

to their outside environment, go, okay, it's either my spouse or my career, my, my job, my kids,

my stress. But very often is these are the hormonal changes going on. And, you know, it's my

belief that they can benefit very often from, from hormone therapy. But where do you fall in that,

you know, hold debate on hormone? I think today is not a debate anymore. I think the WHOI

misled not only women, but misled physicians. Yeah, happy to use that. When the WHOI came out,

I was still a resident, I was 2001, 2002. And, you know, we discussed it in our journal club,

and, you know, there was a robust study, you know, we should not be giving, you know, women,

you know, HRT. And even though like in our residency as an OBGYN, we don't see a lot of men

opposed to women. So add to that, you know, the training and postmen opposed treatment is not

as robust as it should be. And I think this is changing very soon. So we did not, you know,

have a lot of experience with, you know, giving HRT plus, we were like afraid. And my first few

years of practice, I would tell women, yes, take HRT just to treat your hot flashes five years.

And then that's it. You would stop them because we don't know the risk of breast cancer or cardiac

diseases. And if you want to continue, that's at your own risk. I also make actually a few patients

sign consent that they're taking it at their own risk because that's what the data told us. And

we're following evidence based. But yeah, if we want to talk about the WHOI, the type of estrogen

that was used, the design of the study, the age of the woman, we can talk for two hours. But

yeah, it was some sort of doesn't reflect what the real problem is. Right. Now women are going

into men opposed maybe a little bit earlier. Yes, they would benefit from from from hormone

replacement, especially the newer bio or I call them body identical because they're identical

to the body. They're still, you know, manufactured in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And other things. But

there's chemically very similar to the own, their own estradiol and progesterone and testosterone.

Yes, women will benefit on multiple levels, you know, from from from their skin all the way down

to their to their organs and bones and and and vaginal health, sexual health, mental health. So

there's a lot of benefits, you know, for HRT. But also, I think we should always kind of,

personalized things. Right. Those are just who should benefit when to start, when to stop, work

on the pillars initially that inflammation, their gut, their toxins before throwing in hormones,

without, you know, thinking and it becomes like a like a recipe. It should not be a recipe. It

should be a tool that we have to give women those those those medications that I think are just

replacing what they lost. We're not giving them super physiological dosage. Just, you know,

up to mind, yeah, bring them back where they are because they deserve to to be functioning, you

know, the work, the workforce today is all of 50, 50 men and women. We have CEOs that are women.

So imagine a CEO in a in a meeting and she's sweating and she forgot what she thought about. I mean,

right. It's so important. Well, if we just did a podcast on it, I mean, I, I lived it day to day,

I mean, like it's just over a period of slowly over a period of several months. My wife was

becoming kind of a different person and what really drew my attention to it was when she got frozen

shoulder. She got a he's of capsillitis and it's typical. So yeah, I didn't realize how typical it

was and there's not a lot of literature on it. And so I started going deep down the rabbit hole of

it and, and, you know, all of this, this symptomology, including the frozen shoulder was linked back

to menopause. And then of course, then when she started having hat flashes, that was the big

flashing red light. And we did a test called a Dutch test. It's 24 hour urine test. And it gave us

so much information that her OBGYN was able to tailor her hormone treatments and, and if you're a

woman and you want to see that podcast, we actually give Sages exact hormone dosages on there,

go through the Dutch test in detail. But what was astounding to me? She became a different person,

I'm sure. In three weeks, it completely different human being. It was like the woman I met,

you know, 10 years prior. I mean, mood improved, sleep improved,

libido came back. Of course. Thank you very much. Of course. And that was it. That was a nice

plus. libido came back like a freight train her, you know, her waking energy improved. She,

she would tell me she's like, I'm sitting down to send a wire from my bank to pay this bill.

And I've done this a dozen times. And I literally can't figure it out. She's like, I hear this whole

demo. It's not me. Like, I feel like that too. So yeah, definitely hormones play a role. But

even even frozen shoulder, which I was like, you know, she went from being able to only raise her

arm to hear it, went straight up in the air. And of course, you know, it's not only

you know, your muscular skeletal system, your cardiovascular system, your skin, which is so

important, you know, for women and their beauty. You know, they start aging very fast if they're

without HRT. I see a lot of women undergoing, let's say, you know, face lifts. And the ones that

are not on hormone replacement, the results are usually weaker and last less. So it can help on

all levels. And I'm so happy that they removed this, you know, stick on estrogen causing cancer.

Because I think we're in the right directions using them the correct way for the right patient,

the right dose, the right, the right route is what's important. And that's where, you know,

physicians and healthcare workers, midwives, those are the people that can, you know, help those

those women. And at least the help is there now. You know, I try not to get my information from

TikTok and Instagram. I try to get it from from clinical studies and then put it on Instagram

and TikTok. But I've been reading a lot lately about because we struggle with this when we're

young parents, you know, we're having the kids sleep with you, right? And it's the best. I mean,

let's just be honest, having your baby in the bed with you or your young child in the bed with

you and they're all snuggled up. You do not want to just get up and go dump them in the crib or

give them away. But now there seems to be some evidence emerging that, you know, kids that actually

do break that law and sleep with their parents early on. I mean, you don't want your 50-year-old

sleeping with you. But, you know, that's a little weird when they're your size. But, you know,

that there's some evidence that this bond and this unity actually creates

children and adolescents that have less incidents of anxiety. Absolutely. I saw that study. It was

it was out not, you know, a few weeks ago. Yeah, a few weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know,

our son is like six, he sleeps in our bed. There you go. Just like that. But the problem is that

a lot of night he comes in, we put him, he sleeps in his bed, but then I would say every night he

would come. Yeah. A lot of night he would kick me out. You know, I mean, I wake up, I wake up very

early, but sometimes I kick you out. No, it's him. At 3 a.m. 4 a.m. he starts, you know,

keeping me around for your dad. But, but yeah, and then we thought, oh, we need to break this cycle,

keep him in the room. But when I saw the study, it makes sense. But like everything, you have to

have a balance. There should be a point. Yeah, a point where, you know, he has to have his independence.

He will probably, or she will probably won't want to sleep in your bed anymore. They want their

own room and blah, blah, blah. But definitely this bonding, this connection, there's some chemistry

that goes on, ferromones, or I don't know what they are, or the energy that goes between humans

when they're sleeping next to each other that could, you know, maybe help the kids have less anxiety,

they would feel safe. So it's all connected. My wife used to accuse me of being lazy because,

you know, we would take turns when our first born, my daughter would wake up in the middle of the night,

start crying. And my solution was go pick her up, bring her back to the bed, because I was so exhausted.

Yeah, just lay down and she would go back to bed. I'm like, this, this is working, right?

The easy way, the easy way, but the little chair next to the crib, and I'll try to, you know,

get her back to sleep and sneak her back into the crib. She'd start crying again. I'm like,

if you think about it, you know, the baby was connected to the mom through the medical court.

They were in their uterus. They suddenly putting them alone in a crib is weird. Same thing with

twins, you know, they were used to being, you know, close to each other. There's a lot of debate whether

you should separate them and what age you should separate them or keep them sleeping next to each

other. I think it's important to keep the internal environment kind of the same when you're out

and slowly, you know, disconnect them from each other, for example, disconnect the kid from you.

So it's okay if you're, I guess, kid sleeps in your bed. I'm sure a lot of people comment on this

saying, yes, no, it's controversial. But at the end, whatever works for you. I think, yeah,

because you just make the decision as a parent and quit worrying about the rest of it. You know,

it's, mother nature has a way of kind of taking care of itself. You know, one day your kids cannot

going to wake up and just come running into your bed. You know, I used to, I used to hear the,

like, the pitter-patter of the feet come down the hallway. Or they're running somebody. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, kids wake up alone. I mean, if they've got

high catacolomines or something, they go right to worst-case scenario, you know, as an alligator

under the bed monster in a closet and a v-line for your bed. And it's, it's kind of hard to just

carry them back in. Like I said, the body will adjust, you know, the, the, the nice thing about the

body, it, you know, it puts priority to what it needs to fix first. So that's why I tell people

to try to, you know, fix one thing at a time. Because if you overwhelm the body to fix everything

in different directions, it's going to get overwhelmed. But the body knows, like, now my priority

is, let's say, sleep. So it will fix your sleep in a way. Now, my priority is to reproduce.

So you will fix your, your, your gonads. So yeah, the, the body is amazing machine, I would say.

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I've also heard you talk about a topic that might be somewhat controversial about migration as

a, as a health disruptor. And because we have such mixed cultures and mixed migratory patterns

all over the world. And it's, you know, that migration adapting to a new culture or language,

new social norms has its set of stressors. Absolutely. And you talk about some of the statistics

in migrant population, right? And I wonder if you might touch on that for, you know, what,

what does that look like for people that are either relocating to a new country, new culture?

What does it look like for people that are coming from another culture and trying to assimilate it?

Today, there's around 300 million people around who are that migrate. Some of them migrate across

borders. Some people migrate in their same, you know, country, but different regions. So, but

humans migrate in search of food, the career, family safety. Some are forced to, let's say,

migrate some just do it by choice for other, you know, more opportunities in life. So,

migration is common and it's increasing today because it's easy, it's easy to migrate today.

But yes, I think migration is not only, you know, changing geography, it's changing

your physiology. And honestly, I learned this, you know, from myself, from my own experience,

because I migrated a few times in my life. And it takes time for your body to adjust your,

your microbiome changes from one country to another. Really? Because that's the water you're

drinking, the food you're eating. Like, for example, now when I go back, let's say, to Lebanon

the summertime, if I eat something there, I might have an upset stomach because

my Florida changed living in Miami and using the water of Miami, for example. So, your physiology

changes not that good, by the way. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Yes, yes. Yeah, I just saw

your reverse osmosis system. So, I think this is also another message to people clean their water

without before drinking it. So, yeah, your physiology changes by migrating. Not only your geography,

your physiology, your friends might change a new job. So, I think it's always a good opportunity

to use migration in a positive way, not to make it, you know, dramatic. Even if you had

to be forced to migrate, but your target in rhythm will change. But the body, like I said,

is amazing. And it will adapt to this migration. And people need to be aware of it.

If you're migrating, it might take you three or four months to adapt to your society.

Do you refer to it as the healthy immigrant effect? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. And you need to be positive about it. And even if you've lost everything and you move

to a different country, it should be an opportunity to start from scratch. Any bad thing that happens,

I think, in everybody's life, should be taken in a positive way and try to build on it.

And this all reflects in your physiology and your energy will change. Your sleep patterns

will change. So, yeah, I think migration is a topic that not many are talking about, but

it plays a role in our health because we are constantly, you know, migrating and traveling

around the world. You know, it wouldn't be the ultimate human podcast if we didn't talk about

some of the fixation that people have on longevity and anti-aging and not just for women, but for

men as well. Knowing what you know, experiencing what you've experienced as a physician,

everything from delivering babies to managing female hormone therapy to, you know, your lens on

migration, what are just some of the must-haves or must-dos that society, men and women both

need to be engaged in on a regular basis? Yeah. I think first that you mentioned the obsession

with, like, say, longevity and health span, I think we should not, you know, have this obsession.

Unfortunately, you know, people now are so obsessed on doing everything at the same time and

and this is what's causing sometimes more anxiety. Right. Sometimes doing more labs can cause more

anxiety. So, I think we should use labs more as a framework to help us improve things, not, you know,

do so many labs because this is going to make you more anxious. You mentioned the beginning

basics, you know, your sleep, your food and your stress levels. I think those are the first thing

that we need to do because, you know, being obsessed with, like, longevity and you might miss

things in life that you need to enjoy. So, you have to have a good balance in improving your health,

enjoying life, but at the same time, living, you know, in a healthy way so that you can function,

have good energy and transmit this to your kids and to your environment. Yeah. So, yeah, the first

thing is not to obsess about, you know, longevity and then living longer, just obsess about living

healthier now. I think that's, and if you like to do this certain hobby, do it in a healthy way.

If you like to do a paddle or you like to play tennis or soccer, do it, but in a way that you

will enjoy it and don't don't obsess about, you know, hacks that might not work for you, might

work for some other people. And like I said, sleep is so important. I mean, I'm discovering this

every day because I have issues with sleep and then I'm trying to fix that because the nights I

sleep well, I am so productive and I feel so, yeah. And the nights I don't, I'm in debt for

sleep and my whole concentration, my whole energy collapses. So focus on sleep because

there are people who say, oh, I'll sleep when I die. Yeah, I hear this all the time. You know,

you live once, you live once, yeah. I think the hours you are awake will be so much more fruitful

if you have slept the night before. Yeah. So I think that's, that's the main message. And

of course, we know sleep improves your fertility, improves your weight control, your gut microbiome,

your brain, your, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. You know, how, how important sleep is. And then

food, like we talked about is what, what we are because it's going to affect our hormones, which

in turn will affect our, our life. Yeah, I would totally agree with that. I mean, I think that

you can get paralysis of analysis very quickly by just going out there, just googling around about

a good supplement, googling around about the best biohacking modalities. And I think very often we

just forget that we have data on this already. We have big data. We have blue zone studies. And

there is not much that matters if you don't get sleep, whole food dieting and mobility,

just making exercise kind of non-negotiable. And these are, this doesn't matter if you make $2

an hour, $2 million an hour. It's not a socioeconomic thing. It's just a human thing. And

movement is cheap. I mean, movement is cheap. And, and, and, you know, what's interesting is,

you know, you, you, you want it to be this one special thing, you know, like I was always fascinated

when I would look at like blue zone studies. And it was like the goat herders and cheap herders.

And yeah, that we're, that we're living the, the longest life, because you know, like sheep

wanders down over the hill to walk over and get the sheep, they're bringing the sheep back up.

Then they brought their lunch with them and they ate out in the sun, you know, or ate out under a

tree and they have fresh air. And, and, you know, Casey Means was talking about how we spend 97

and a half percent of our time indoors now. Yes. And I'm conscious about trying to force myself

outside. And, and I will say that of all the biohacking, you know, you walked around here,

I mean, of all the biohacking modalities that I have, and all this, you know, fancy,

fancy equipment. Nothing really makes me feel better than

getting silent on my skin in the morning, doing a round of breath work, going for a

ground to walk. I mean, when I'm in Colorado, I have this little four mile loop that I do

with a weight of vest. And I come back and I'm like, I feel really good. I feel like spiritually

good. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The connection with nature and all these, yeah,

Western medicine they do, or Eastern medicine, they do forest bathing for them. Yeah. Yeah.

Somebody actually sent me a slide of some of the hospitals in the 30s and 40s and they had

sunbathing balconies. Hospital beds on rooftop. Rootsops, yeah. Yeah. And we just lay the

patients out on the sun. It tells you, you know, like our ancestors knew a lot, but we just had to

prove it with, you know, with studies. But there's a lot of things that are done that are really,

you know, basic that our ancestors did without even maybe noticing that they are, you know,

beneficial. And you know, what time they, we lost those skills, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, nature,

walking outside is amazing. But yeah, unfortunately, because of work and because of

when people want to succeed all the time and there's so much pressure on us that we are stuck

inside on our laptops and our phones with junk lighting. Yeah, you just have to, you know, go out

and walk. And I think what you've done here is almost like nature. Yeah. Yeah. Your air is so clean

and, you know, everything is amazing. But like you said, going outside is still no replacement.

No, I mean, I think the more disconnected we get from other nature, the more, the more isolated we

become, you know, I don't think that we were genetically programmed or intustrally designed

to be endorsed this much in artificial lighting and artificial temperatures. You know, our bodies

are so adaptive. It's incredible how resilient we are. You know, that's why I love the

application of some of these hermetic stresses like sauna and co-punging. And you don't have to be

obsessive about it, but those things make it make a difference. They actually build resilience.

And of course, we do it with friends that will be even, you know, you know, better because,

you know, also the community is so important. Yeah. So that community, that sense, that sense of

communication is huge. Yeah. So in your practice, where are you going? How has your actual practice

evolved like the way that you look at your patients? Now, have you zoomed out now and you actually

start to consider lifestyle, diet, stress, whereas maybe, I don't know, putting words in your

mouth when you got out of medical, first started seeing patients, it's sort of a by the numbers kind

of thing. I think you're not putting words in my, these are my words. Okay. It's exactly what I

want to say. Yes. You become, you know, after training, you know, you become a bit kind of a robot.

And you do the right things. You save lives. You do C-sections. You do his directories. And

so you're doing the right things. But yeah, that zoomed out, you know, 360 view of lifestyle.

I'm starting to appreciate it. Maybe in the last four or five years, how important it is.

Yes. We used to be told lifestyle is important. But we never dug into, like a patient would come

in for 10, 15, 20 minutes. Yeah. I wouldn't know much about her life. Right. You can't really dig in,

right? Yeah. So, but I think digging in into every person's lifestyle, the way they sleep,

what they eat, when they move, what are things happening in their life as far as stresses,

the relationships. I mean, those take time to know a person. You can't know a person within five

minutes. But yes, definitely my view on pregnancy, whenever I see a woman that has a baby,

a small baby, I start thinking. Is that things she ingested? Is it the food? Is it, you know,

her blood pressure? Why is her blood pressure high? Is it, you know, related to, you know,

her stresses in life? Where does she live? So, like, yes, my view to things have changed,

no doubt. Have you seen patterns in your practice of... A few patterns. Yeah. A few patterns in

lifestyle. Yes. Yes. I mean, I definitely, a woman that have a very hectic lifestyle,

with, you know, very high demanding jobs. You would feel sometimes their pregnancies. They might

end up with more IVF sometimes. I mean, again, those are just observations. I'm not saying anyone who's

you know, high achiever will need IVF. But yeah, you have those, those patterns that that you are

seeing, you know, people that have don't access to food, they only have access to junk food,

they end up being overweight, having preeclampsia, preterm labor, emergency c-sections. Yes,

there is a pattern, no doubt. I know that. But now, just the way I think about

pregnant patient is different than what I did, you know, five, six years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Just

amazing. I'm so glad that you came back so we can... I'm so happy you've had me for round two.

Yeah. And it's, it still strikes me that we had to meet halfway around the world and we had

to finish it or you're right up the street. You know, I have a group of folks that are my VIP

clients and or VIP members. And so we're going to go into the VIP group and now I have a little

private podcast because I let them know who's coming on the podcast. They have some questions for you.

If you're actually interested in becoming a VIP, just go over to theultimatehuman.com forward slash

VIP and you can get it take advantage of the private podcast. You can ask, Gary, anything,

you can get my AI, you can feed it labs, you can be at a genetic testing, you can ask it anything.

It's an incredible community of like-minded people that's going to change the world. But

before I end every podcast, I ask my guests the same question. And if you watch the podcast,

you know it's coming. There's no right or wrong answer to this question. And then is,

what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

I think being, you know, I did not, I knew you're going to ask this question.

You did. I don't want to prepare it. I wanted it to be, you know, to come out for what we're

discussing. I think an ultimate human, you should be a person who is connected to yourself,

connected to the people around you, give as much as you take from others so that you know,

the day you are not here on earth, people remember you that you were someone who impacted their

life in a positive way. And then at the same time being a human is, you know, enjoying life,

not to take things all the time seriously. And then, you know, being able to

live in a healthy way and then not dying, suffering. I think that's how I see

how it's been an ultimate human. Meeting last year. Yeah. No, that's amazing.

Actually, it'd be, you're amazing. I'm glad you came back. Thank you for having me.

Ron, three is going to be the, trying the biohack gadgets you have.

For sure. We'll do a whole podcast episode on your welcome back. You should do this.

Yeah, you're my, you're my neighbor. So you're welcome back anytime. So thank you for coming

on. And until next time, guys, that's just science.