2819: You'd Look Better With MORE Body Fat

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Store.com. That's it. Joy rest of the show. Look, check this out. A lot of you would look way

better, fatter. Are we talking about people that are like bikini bodybuilders that like

5% body fat? Is that what you're going? That's obvious. I think that's obvious, right? They're

just too lean. You can't be that lean all the time. But I'm actually talking to fitness

fanatics like dudes that feel like they need to walk around at 10% women that need to walk around at

19% all the time. I think, and I know you're surrounded by the fitness space. You're getting

all this stuff advertising. But what's funny is that, I mean, if you're fit, you got muscle.

You probably as a woman would look better around 23, 24% as a dude, 13, 14% body fat. And it's

funny because when they ask the opposite sex, this is what they typically point to. Unless they're

in that space, in which case, we tend to worship this. Yeah, because it looks more healthy.

Yeah, you're not struggling to get food in. Your body just sits at that nice

percentage. And it just looks like you're thriving versus like, you know, you're starving yourself

for a look. I find this a really interesting conversation right now, in particular with what I just

kind of went through the last, you know, whatever it was, I think almost a month ago or so, that I

had tested my body fat. And I'm pretty good about like, you know, look at someone or myself and

guess. And judge your body fat percentage. Yeah, judge my body fat percentage. It's not that often

especially myself who I've done that so many times. Would I have guessed that far off that I was?

And it was really like enlightening for me and reminded me of something that I feel like I've

talked to clients about many times. But it's always neat to see that unveiled even to myself.

And what that is and what I would I realize is that it actually had less to do with my body fat

percentage is that I have a good amount of lean body mass on me. Yeah. 180 pounds.

Some body fat on muscle looks great. Yeah. Yeah. And so why I like the direction you're going is

that if you would have asked me even just a decade or so ago, what percentage body fat do I like

my physique at? I'd say, oh, it's probably around 10, maybe 12% body fat, you know, somewhere in

that range. And I think I'm the happiest there. I'm the most comfortable diet wise. I like the way I

look, all these things like that. So to have already to actually to have the reverse happen to me

where I've been training for a while back in my rhythm, you know, caring for my wife, oh,

you look so great right now, like feeling good. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I like how I feel right now.

I'm probably lean out a little bit. I like how I feel. And then I'm like, yeah, it might be a

little bit higher than that 10 to 12%. And I'm probably more like 14, 15%. And there's always a part

of me too that kind of lies to myself. It says that I think I'm 14, 15, but I really think I'm more

like 13. So I'm like already setting myself up. And so to get the test back and to be as high as

like 18 and went, what? Like no way. Because the last time I was at that's the closest to the highest

body fat percentage I've, I've ever, I've ever tested. And I know how I looked and felt at 19,

which is only 1% difference. So it's not a huge difference body fat percentage wise. But I obviously

have a significant more amount of muscle at that 18% because when I was 18% I or 19% I was

211 pounds. Oh, when you did your first. Oh, yeah. So this time I weighed 233 pounds,

24 pounds of muscle, at least. So, but 1% body fat difference. But a significant difference in

lean body mass and looking at looking at myself going like, Oh, wow. That's crazy. Because if you

would ask me. And so it really, and it highlights to me what I've communicated. I feel like to a lot of

my female clients in the past that get hung up on like the what you were saying this number of

like, Oh, I think I want to be like 19% like I know what I've looked like at 21 or 22% I want to

be a little bit leaner than that. And it's like, you know, that's a better goal than I'd say a

scale goal. Like someone who says like, I want to weigh one because that's a horrible goal. That's

right. Right. But even the more I realize with myself, like even a body fat percentage isn't

ultimately that great of a gauge, too, because how different a 12% version of me in an 18%

version of me can actually look. Here's what you see stuff of lean body mass. Totally. And here's

what. So we'll talk just physiologically. And even we'll talk about athletic performance here.

But physiologically speaking. So here's the context. You have two, you have the same person.

Both fit both strong, both, you know, good fitness, good, you know, via two max strength mobility,

that kind of stuff, right? We'll talk about a guy over here. He's 10% over here. He's 15%.

First off, the 15% version is going to have better athletic performance. And we know this by the

data. Better stamina, better strength, better stamina, better resilience. This is a big one. Like

if you get sick or you get injured, he's going to be more resilient at 15% body fat. So that's

number one. Number two, his hormone health is better. It's more likely to be better around 15%

than a 10% and natural guy. And there's always exceptions to the rules. We'll stop pointing to

the pro athletes that are genetic freaks. Okay. I'm talking about most people like 99% of people

listening right now. Most natural dudes go from 15 to 10% they sacrifice testosterone. They sacrifice

hormone health, they sacrifice immune health and they do sacrifice athletic performance as well.

That's there's that part. Then there's this part when women are asked majority of them when

they're looking at a dude who's fit. They kind of prefer the guy that's like 13 to 15%

over the 10%. Why do they prefer that? Because we tend to look for signs of health and

fertility. Now, I'll speak to women. Again, it's subconscious. It is. I'll speak to women. Both fit,

both working out, both okay, doing well. 19%, 24%, the 24% woman. And this is even more

true for women than for men because their bodies are more sensitive to this than men are.

The 24%, 25% woman who's fit healthy muscle, the whole deal. She's going to have a better hormone

profile. She's going to be more fertile, more regular periods, less, you know, PMS symptoms,

so hormone health is better. Much better resilience, better athletic performance. And most dudes

would say she looks better. She's got the curve. She's got the and she looks good. And so what's

happened is we've got this distortion because the people who are communicating health

aren't really communicating health on social media. What they're communicating is a body obsession.

And so they tend to present this extreme. Now, let's talk about general health, like overall health,

for most guys, including the guys in this room who know what we're doing. If you're going to walk

around at 10% body fat, you place a higher focus on your diet. There I say a slightly unhealthy,

in many cases, a very unhealthy focus on your diet. You don't have a lot of flexibility. You're

really paying attention to what you eat, so you can maintain this 10%. 15%. You generally eat healthy,

but you enjoy the occasional going out. You're not that dude that goes out of the signal, sorry,

I can't have this. I got to eat this particular way. Same thing for women. So mental health

in terms of body obsession and stress around diet is much better. And I just want to communicate

this because now there are a lot of people out of listening who are just getting into exercise,

just getting into watching what they're eating. And so they're kind of aiming for this we're talking

about. But there's also a significant percentage of our audience that are fitness fanatics who,

women who think they got to get to 19% guys who need to get 10% and they think they're going to have

this dramatic improvement in health or happiness when the truth is the opposite. You're actually going

to sacrifice a lot of things for a look and you're not going to get much in return except for a

body fat percentage that you're seeing on scale. I want to add to that and poke holes a little

bit in that study and not to debate you but to add to an even greater point to this argument because

those studies that like take general people who generally keep themselves with that body fat

percentage, the argument you're making is that most opposite sex likes the opposite sex a little

bit higher body fat percentage. And even that is generally speaking because if you were to take like

using myself as an example again, what I look like right now at 18%. I can show my why for general

population a 15% version or 14% version of me. And I bet you if I put them next to each other and

you said, what are you more attracted to or what do you think looks better. More people would say

what the what I look like right now at 18% than what I have even then. So even that doesn't tell

the full story. It's like in the case that I'm trying to make is is the importance of building

muscle. The muscle part and because that's the healthy. Yes. And the little bit of a higher

body fat percentage and a lot of the research in the studies that we have. Oh, this is kind of

optimal or ideal or healthy. Again, is is taking a general population. I think there's a lot of

people that could build 10, 20, 30 more pounds of muscle on them and their body fat percentage

stay the same. Which means they added body fat. Right. Right. And which means they got they added

more fat to their body, but they but they added 10, 15 pounds of muscle and look be look better,

feel better. More the opposite sex be attracted to all the thing and not all those things are

necessarily the most important. But it's like on all markers and cases improved. We'll use the

example of our trainer, Karin. I love using her as example because she's perfect for this. She's

on our staff. She's an amazing coach. And she took the big step of letting someone else totally

take over her training and diet, which was Adam. She was she came to you. What was she sitting at?

Where she walking around at 18, 17 percent body fat all the time. Very lean. Okay. Not a good lean

or I say it's too lean to walk around it. But this is what she was at. She comes to Adam. He

reverse diets her. She gets her calories from where to where we were at she's at 1900 to 2000

calories. We're at 26 to 27. So look at almost 1000 calories for diet dramatically reduced

for training volume. She's not exercising. Yeah. Um, she her strength went through the roof. Yeah.

Where she's hitting PRs weekly almost weekly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like big PRs almost weekly squats,

deadlifts, hip thrust, energy, energy is better. Uh, every single person on staff is like man,

she looks amazing. She looks great. Got her butt got wet and got a dexas can gained only body fat.

Her body fat percentage went from 17 percent to what? Yeah. 19 19 still lean. Yeah. But she gained

two percent body fat, gained some weight on the scale, gained no muscle on the dexat. But she's

stronger, feels better, more energy and looks better. Yeah. So and that's an extreme example.

But better because she gained body fat. Yes. And her fitness improved. So she didn't compromise

her fitness. Yeah. Her fitness actually got better as well. That's an extreme example. But we need

to communicate this because he's talking about that. So many of our listeners are we have so many

female listeners who are fit and they're working out and they're good and they're consistent. Like

hey, I'm at, you know, 25 percent body fat. I want to get down to 20. What should I do? And it's

like I can, I can tell you what you can do. But the truth is like you're better off staying where

you're at and just keep improving your fitness and eating with some flexibility. Right. And we get

guys like that too. I'm a 15 percent on a six pack. Bro, you get a six pack. Yeah. You think you're

going to feel so much happier. Uh, you're not. Well, it's not a performance advantage. You know,

like to be really lean. No. It's just like a, you know, whatever is healthy and what that is for

your body and and what that consists of. And we have general ranges where we try to shoot,

you know, where it's like, this is healthy. You know, and I feel like, you know, I'm adequate

energy wise. I have that a little bit of a buffer. Um, but I mean, it kind of varies. But at the

same time, if that's where you start, you perform the best when you're in that health zone. That's

right. And you, you stray out of that, you know, above, below to chase a look. And then it's,

you know, you're compromising that. You know, it's fine. I feel about you. I mean, Justin always

is going to add his performance point. You're always going to go the health direction. I always

love driving home this, the look though, because that's what most people are going after.

They're here. Right. Like, I mean, what you guys are saying is so important. It's all true. But

the truth is so many people are chasing a look. And I think that's what I want to convey so much

is like you at a higher body fat percentage, you know, to the point of how you open this, like,

you would look better. Fatter. If you just add a muscle too. And a lot of times you can't do that

when you're always trying to be at this low percent body fat. We had a collar just recently.

It's just like, you know, and she wants, she wants this like 20 to 22%, which is a total 5%

to desire for a female. You can be healthy in that range. But I'm like, look at her going like,

you know, I bet if you stay the same body fat percentage, which she was around 25 or 26,

and just added five to 10 pounds of muscle, you would get the 22, 20 to 20% look the look that you

think you want. Yeah, the look that you think you want has less to do with the percentage. It's

that you're, you're thinking about where you're at right now. I'm a little fluffy. If I were to

lean some of that fat off, then I had this look. Well, I will argue you just gain some muscle to that

same. In fact, some fat could come with it too, by the way. You added 10 pounds on the scale and

eight muscle and two fat. You would look, you would look better. You would look the look that you

think needs to be at 20 to 22. You know, it's funny to you about this, by the way. Uh, you know,

when you're, you're a guy, you're walking around at 10% body fat, your face doesn't look as good.

It's when you're at 14% body fat. This is especially true. I want to piss people off for women.

You get down to the teens. Your face does not look as good as when you're in the low to mid 20s.

Body fat on your face, you got to have some. And especially as you get older, especially as you get

older, where you start to look like you're more age. They're calling this ozemic face. Or you know,

what's happening with that? People are losing everything. Yeah. As they look old, because why? Well,

because you need some body fat. And some body fat is on your face. And it actually makes you look

more youthful and healthier. Um, and again, a lot of the messaging that we're getting are from people

who their hormones are artificially propped up. So they could diet, they could do all extreme stuff,

get their body fat lean and they're going to be great. The average person chases this number.

You're going to feel like garbage. Your libido is going to be down. You're, you're overstressed

with your workouts. You're over focused on your diet. And to add on what you don't look as good.

You might, you're, you're a little bit of a distorted view on yourself. Not realizing you just

don't look at it. And what's crazy about this, because I know I've done this before, is you'll have

friends. These people listening have had this happen. I guarantee it, where they're getting really

lean. And then their friends and family come up and they're like, you don't look good. Yeah. But

all they hear in their head is, yeah, it's because I'm shredded. Yeah. You don't say the drift that

you talk about. Yeah. But it really does happen. And that's the thing. It's the irony of it.

Everybody wants to look youthful, right? You look older. Yeah. You know, when you're too lean,

you just look older. Your skin doesn't look as, is vibrant in health. There's a saying, you know,

there's an old, there's a saying in, I think it's in the fashion world in Italy. So, and it's not a

great saying, but they say this to their models. They say face or ass. Then what they mean by that is

you pick either you have a round butt. You have a round butt. Either you can have, you know, you're

going to sacrifice one or the other. So you get too lean, you're going to sacrifice your face or

whatever. So if you have that, if you have the butt, you have, I don't know,

anyway, it's the saying that they say because they refer to getting too lean, how it affects how

you start to look or whatever in your face. And you do, you look older. But this message needs to get

out because if you go through Instagram and you go on fitness, yeah, even if you go on wellness,

which I, the term wellness has been so bastardized now, wellness is just fitness, but now it's packaged

a little different. What I mean by that is all the wellness people now, they're still displaying this

like overly lean body focus or whatever. It just now looks like who else is such a great example

on our team. I loved it. I've actually, I got to sit down with her and talk to her about her

whole journey and her calories and stuff like that. But I've seen her before and after. And that's

Danny. Oh, yeah. Like her, her physique, her, that she's built. Oh, yeah, she's built a total

different physique than what's so strong. She's so strong. Yes. And I like to ask her what she can

eat calorie wise today versus what did she come from a place where she was like super restricting.

I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just just it looks like a whole different person, a totally

different person. She's so much more muscle on her body. And I, and when I talked to him and we're

getting ready to do Karin, I asked her if she wanted to join that she's like, Oh, now right now,

I'm eating and doing this and that and like, the fact that she can, she can eat what she wants

and have that kind of flexibility and still have the physique that's like that. You know,

and I think so, so many, so many people, women in particular, I feel like where my female clients

get hung up on this, this looked that they remember having or seeing when they were at their

leanest. And you know, some of them might have had their body fat percentage. And so they're,

either it's the scale or this body fat percentage. And, you know, I guess the point I'm trying to

make is we always talk about like body fat percentage, kind of being this gold standard. It's

better than weight. Yeah, it's better, but it's still, it's still, still can be very distorted,

especially until, especially for women, because women has, muscle hasn't been promoted so much

for women as it has been meant for a really long time. So this is, this goes both ways. And they're

also advertised from an, you know, image perspective or much fashion industry. It's a fashion

damage. It's the health, the wellness, like everything geared towards women is, is so focused

on how you look. Yeah. And it's coming from these really body dysmorphic people. Unfortunately,

the ones that tend to get the voices in our space. You know, one of the best things you could do.

Really, one of the best things you could do, this is both men and women, but especially women,

is change your algorithm on your social media. Like consciously change it. When you're going

through and you're seeing bodies projected to you, pictures of bodies and how they look and they're,

you know, check, click on the little whatever is a little, the three dots and say, I want to see

less of this. And you have to do this every day because the algorithm's so smart that it'll

revert back very quickly. So every day, just say less of this, I want less of this in my brain,

less of this in my brain. And you would be surprised at how positively. By the way,

I know you actively do that. I actively like the things that I want. Like I actually go,

like every, it's like an exercise I do now where I will look at my explorer page to see if it's

in my goal. Literally, my goal is always it to be like all the things that I want.

So you're actually wanting. Yeah, yeah, that I want to be consuming that I'm into or whatever

that I think is, you know, healthier or better, right? For whatever reason.

Uh, you, you actually go in, click on it and then say, show me less of this.

Yes. Where do you see? Where is that? So when you, when, so when you're scrolling,

yeah, when something comes up, right, you can click on the picture. I think there's like

the little dots. Yeah, the little dots. Yeah. And you could say less of this or don't show me this.

And so it's like literally on the icon in my feed. I have like, I'm an Instagram right now.

Okay, here's perfect. I've done it on Facebook. I don't know. Yeah. So I've done

you're seeing this post request, you know, yeah. So I've done it on X a lot because that's the one

that I'll be on. And that one, bro, there are algorithms fast on X. Oh my god, that's so quick,

dude. Yeah. You, you look at one thing and then you get five more time with X just because it's

so raw sometimes. I forget that you're mostly on X right now. I'm trying to figure out how to

do it. There's a way to do it on all of them. It's a good thing right now. I'm going through my

thing right now. I've yet to see something. I don't okay here. You could also do with ads by the way.

Oh, yeah. I do that all the time. Yeah. So okay. Okay. Okay. Not interested. That's right. Okay.

So, so not interested. Okay. Here's why this is so. Don't suggest these posts anymore. Don't suggest

posts with certain words. News all suggest posts. Okay. That's right. Now the reason why it's so

important to do this process is that this post made me feel uncomfortable. Yeah. So. And you know

what? That's the strongest scene. I think that's the strongest signal is that one right there.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I've done that. It's in it's stronger because you have to like repeatedly say,

don't show me this. Don't show me this. So the algorithms are so sensitive that it picks up

micro fractions of a second longer that you hover. Oh, it tracks your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. So if

you're like scrolling through. Oh, no, that's it. So I pause for so you're longer. So you're

you're your point. This is why I have to check back on my explorer page is because I only like these

the things that I want. But even if I get caught looking at something for a minute, even if I don't

like it, it'll still start to it'll sort of still change my explorer page and feed it back to me

again. Yeah. So that's why I was asking you why like how you do because the way I do it is like I

get good at just really liking all the stuff I want. But you also have to say don't. Yeah.

Because if you don't, it knows that you pause for a second. It's bad. It'll it'll feed again.

It's it's it's a it's a self-adjusting in the moment on the fly. It's kind of brilliant.

It's like in their point. You know, it's brilliant. And it's and you that means you have to

get the gun. I'll give you guys an example here in Pulse of Nature. I told the story already, but

I saw it. So my wife will be it's okay with it, but I'll tell it again. So there was there was a

period we're going somewhere. And I was like, it's like, oh, maybe I should get some like it's

like sexy lingerie for my wife, right? So I went and looked up like, you know, I told you.

And so as soon as I did that, it was emails. So hold on. So as soon as I did that, when I would

go on social media, you know, the little ads that post underneath, little ads would post for

lingerie, but they're like, bro, it's like, yeah, yeah, it's like a half naked chick, like, right?

And I don't want to see that because it's soft porn for sure. I just don't want to see that. I've

had issues with like, you know, looking at stuff in the past. And so I'd I just consciously now look

away. And so I had to go, don't show me this. This is offensive. I had to be like four times. Yeah,

before it stopped. Like I kept getting ads. And I have to I had to keep doing it. I've bought a lot of

it. I don't want to get away. Like there's probably at least six different brands that I've bought

from it. So they all they've all got me. They find me dude. We're about to try not to subscribe

from those emails. And then you get one of those emails. But I tell you what, just for people

listening, like if you you have to consciously do this every day, but change your algorithm because

it shifts how you view the world, but more importantly, how you view yourself. Are you guys are

you guys noticing with your teens? Any news? Any like new like behavioral's around it? Like them

organically, not what you're restricting or telling. Do you think that you're seeing a increase in

their like addiction to it? Or are they naturally certain? Because one of the things that we

predicted all I generally, yeah, that like this generation coming up is is is becoming it's more

common that they're like I put I put really strong restrictions on my daughter. So she only gets

10 minutes of Instagram. She has no tick talk. Do you find yourself at least so where I guess I'm

getting out with you guys because you guys have both upteens that were like a part of the height of

this stuff. Is it always a battle? Is it something that's getting easier? Is it getting harder?

Like what what's it like managing it for the for the kids? It's getting a lot easier. It's getting

easier. He's just a lot more mature with it than he was. It was a battle did for a while. Yeah.

I didn't want to give him a phone. Oh, well, you know, that was like really hard for me to reconcile.

That was a mistake. I made it was I gave my my daughter has a phone. Yeah. Like my younger kids,

they're not getting one. They're not getting one till it's absolutely necessary. Which I don't

know. What what what were the two eight? How early would you do your daughter? How early would you do

your boys? So let's probably my daughter eighth grade eighth grade. I think it was eighth grade.

Yeah. Ethan was 13. It might have been eighth. Is that is that when you're 13? He was seven seven

seven. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It might have been seventh grade for me too because I think it was

right on the same age. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I mean, yeah, I do there's a thing ideally in the

ideal situation, you know, if you can, you know, wait. That would be, you know what I get what

what I mean, it's real easy sitting from my seat, right? To say, but I understand,

and I can only imagine how difficult it was for the two of you at the the timing of it is that

because I already see it with my son's age, parents that like like his best friend and

that were really close to them. Like they don't they restrict tech from his kid or their kid.

Their kid doesn't get an iPad like like ours. And so it makes it easy when the best friend

doesn't too. I was just going to say that's that that's the easier way to do it is if you

if you have cultivate the friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, that's what Katrina and I have

talked about and plan to do. And it seems, and I don't want to say it's easy, but it's probably

easier for me than it was for you guys when nobody was really paying attention. When everybody

thought I was everyone. I mean, your guys is a generation, or meaning your guys kids generation,

you were probably told if they don't learn tech, they're going to be behind. If they don't they don't

learn to use those computers. Outliers by waiting for sure. Yeah. He had to wait. Right. You know

a couple of years to catch up to his friends text messages. You know what helps to a lot. I'm sure

Justin could speak to this. When they're busy doing things like sports and stuff. That's when

they have nothing to do. Right. So I preach that from, you know, the mountains, dude, I'd have to

keep them busy. You know, it honestly, idle hands, devils were it for real, whoever like said that,

like that is such a truth. Yeah. It's said a long time ago, too. That's crazy. You said that.

Find out. I don't know if he said that, but philosophy. And I mean, I just even with my oldest,

it's like, you know, he'll he'll do a good job with tech. But then, you know, he's roaming around

town and all these things. And it's like, he's getting bored. And it's like they, they find

their way into mischief. Just like, you know, and it's like now I'm battling that. And it's like,

it's just one of those things. But you prefer that right? Okay. So I do prefer that because my buddy

Mike, his kids, similar age, right? And we talked a lot about this for the last couple of years

and everything. And he's really active dad. He's into cars always trying to get his boy to come

to the car vans. Kids not really into it. You'd rather stay at home on the computer, the phone

or on the game and so with that. And he recently has got into those electric dirt bike. Yes. And he's

like, yep, hardcore to it. But he's like, he rolls around with the group of kids that are like

getting in trouble. And they don't just the cops, the cops have busted them because they're like,

they go, yeah, they go pass where they're supposed to farther than we ever did with your kids.

And so he's so electric. Yes. And they go like 50 miles an hour, bro. Yeah. And so he's like so

conflicting because he's like, I'm for the last five years, I've been fighting to get him out

of the house. Now he's got the house, but then he's getting a mischief. And I'm like, yes,

you know, I think I'd rather have that. I'd rather have him learn the consequences of the cop

getting you in trouble for riding that bike where you're not supposed to. And then the sitting

plugged into a game all day. Can we just say like straight up like there's always something

raising, raising kids, especially teenagers. It's hard. It is. It's hard. It's anxiety riddled.

They they they want the independence of an adult, but they have the mind of a child. And so

and the rebellious. It's the I got this. Yeah. You don't even know what you're doing.

How do you actually know nothing? You really don't know nothing.

I love I love arguing with teenagers. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how early that is how ingrained

that is because I my sense that to my wife last night. Mom, I got this. It was over something,

you know, whatever. But it's like the fact that they they're they already start doing that.

It's an independent line. I got this mom. It's so hard too because when you want you want to

tell them like, no, no, this is this is how it works. You know, like half the time telling them is

like make some hard and even more. Yeah. And you got to let them work through it too. So it's like

I've had to really check myself a lot of times with that because I will be like, you know,

try and squash his energy with that. Like, well, you don't know what you're doing. I'm like,

let him figure it out. Let him work through it. Let him stumble. My favorite is you have

every when your kids try to like tell you like figure out how much it would cost to like live on

the round. They have no idea. Oh, yeah. Oh, find me this much money. Oh, yeah. You would be

able to pay rent in a room. I know. You know, but that's that's why I really liked a book was

that that I read. I wish I've recommended it on the on the podcast before. But it talked about

the four stages of. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I got to read that one. Yeah. And you guys,

and that's you guys are coaching guys. And really when you think about it, that's good coach.

It's like you tell him the game changer for me. Yes. You know that. Yeah. My daughter. It's been a

game. You're a coach. You're not daddy mode anymore. You're not telling them what to do all

the time. It's like, Hey, you do this, this and this. This will help you. You play that you show

the play. Here's a potential concept. That's right. You show the play. I'm going to let you

figure it out. Yeah. And you know, we're going to you and you encourage why they should run the

play this way. And then when they veer off and do their own thing and they get tackled behind

the line or they get hurt or the thing happens. Like, that's why dad told you this is the play.

It's been such a game changer for the lessons for me and my daughter. Yeah. I actually had to verbalize

it to her like listen, we're moving a new phase. It's the coaching phase. And there was a period

there where it was like, is this actually working because she's, but then I'd sit down with her

to look, I'm not going to tell you you have to do this. Right. Remember we're in the coaching

phase, but you need to hear me because I feel like you're not hearing me. And if you feel like

you're just shutting me down, then we're going to go backwards and go to the other phase where I force

you. Yeah. And it's actually, it's actually improved our relationship. I think it's a great idea

to communicate even to the kid, like letting them know that. I think it's a great, I didn't know

you did that. I think that's a great, a great idea is to be like, hey, that we're, I recognize

that we're transitioning from me being daddy, tell you what to do all the time to you want to

learn things, do things on your own. And I can appreciate that. I love that. The language is more

like, might I make a suggestion? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like my new version. Yeah, or

let me tell you how to play out for daddy. No, I definitely gave him a lot bigger area that he can

venture out and have adventures and do this thing, but it's at home. We're just like, I mean,

you're, and we're also, that's because you track your kids. You're also talking. If you also

track your kids, nobody knew what we were going. I know. I know. My wife does. And then I find out,

I'm like, oh, it's a new way over there. Yeah. That's important to be out is like how much we,

because he, my buddy, Marks, they have air tag on his kid too. And so it's like, so they can see

when he's going beyond where he was told to. So that's what's like this. Now you're challenged with

this. Like, do I say something? Do I say something? He's not, you know, he only affects me because

he's like, then he gets dark and like, I have to go pick him up my truck, because you gotta take

the bike and put the truck in his friend and, you know, it becomes like, like, look, you brought

me into this, the whole idea is for you to have that freedom and independence. You come back,

you do the right thing and you get to do it again. Now, you know, we're not going to have that much

freedom and you have to earn it back. Yeah. Yeah. I think about some of the stuff I did when I was

a teenager, like, when we would ride off. Now we'd have electric bikes, when we had a regular bike,

but we would take off and we would do things, man, I look back. You know, how do you guys both make

peace to, how do you guys both make peace with this also because you also know that, so imagine

you have the kid who's the opposite, who listens to everything, doesn't go beyond it, because I

think about this from my perspective, because my kid seems to be different with a lot of stuff. And

my fear is I also know that those traits that you guys both have and you see in your kids are also

the things that made you great entrepreneurs and successful life, because you are willing to

stretch the boundaries to think outside the box, to not just fall in line with the other people,

there's some characteristics that come with that. Adam, when you look at the data on it,

because that could definitely happen, but you know the data shows more often than not,

is that they're going to go through a rebellious phase. And so if they don't do it as expected,

then they do it in college. Yes. Or I'd rather it be now. Or I have a lot of friends like this.

I have friends like this who are doctors. Okay. So they were very regimented, very disciplined,

call it, and they wow out when they, and then when they finally are done with medical school off

the rail now, I'm going to go through my rib belly. I mean, that's, I mean, that's a recipe for

Peter Pan syndrome, right? I mean, that's like, well, how that ends up happening to a lot of

probably. Now how did it? So we're doing the perspective from the husband, right? I imagine this

is even more difficult for the wives to let, to let go and let it like a lot of the risky stuff,

especially too. And like he, it's funny, because I love it, because he's back into climbing on

things and, you know, like he'll go on these bridges and things are super sketchy. And I'm like,

ah, you know, like in court, you'll find out about it. But, you know, I'm just glad that he's

adventuring and like being in the world and doing these things. I'm like, you know, I'm okay with

some of these risks he's taking. You know that it's dangerous. You can get hurt and this and that.

But so that that prefer that that's an example of where you can be more laxed and she's probably

more freaked out. Yeah. Where's the flip of that? Whereas she more laxed and you're a little more

and she's like, hey, dude, calm down. He'll be like, is there, is there an example of that? Or she

almost always that way and you're almost always one who's more like the same thing for you. So like,

is there a push and pull for you guys where there's certain things, she's more laxed about and

you're more like over and she's like, hey, chill out. Let him, let him figure it out. And or is it

is it all things? Because obviously the rest thing. I think of it example. Oh, yes. Oh,

yes. I bet it's probably when you show a lot of anger. Then she knows she's calm down. I'll bet

that's probably when it kicks in. Oh, when I'm angry with him. Yeah. When you start to lose it,

she's probably like, well, oh, yeah, she yeah, yeah, she calms me down with when it's like,

I use that as something to like capture attention and like snap out of like his state.

Like so I don't, I don't raise my voice unless it's like very intentional. But yeah, I do do

that sometimes she freaks her out. It scares her, you know, sometimes because I'll let that out

just to let everybody know I got teeth. You know, it's like, you know, there's constant. There's

value to that though, too. I think a great way to communicate that is to when you do it intentional

and you're detached from the emotion, it's a very powerful tool. When you do it in a response

emotionally is when it's bad, right? So that's for the reaction of it. Right, right. Like that's

hard. Oh, of course. That's a discipline. No, that's a discipline. No, that's a very difficult. I

think that I was trying to think of like an example with like girls in relationship and all that.

And I'm more like, you know, don't worry about all that. Like, you know, that'll come down the road

and like, I'm not trying to like make it happen where he's going to hang out and go on a date or like

and she's all like, yeah, how's it going with so and so? And you know, she gets all into the

relationship side of it. And I'm just like, dude, stop asking about that. You know, he'll figure it out.

This is a distraction. You'll need this right now, son. Yeah, that's like my energy. I think you're

right. Yeah, the right one. Total distraction when you're a kid. Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean,

she loves the idea of him, you know, having a relationship with a girl and I appreciate that

because I'm sure then mama bearers are going to come now. Are you the opposite here? Because

so my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are the opposite here. The my sister-in-law is the one

who lets the kids climb the trees, fall, bruise themselves, whatever. And my brother-in-law is more like

boundaries overprotective that way. You seem like that to me. It depends. I mean, it really does

depend on the situation. I would say we have a different dynamic with the little ones that we do with

my daughter because my daughter's with us every other week. Plus, she has her mom. Yeah.

She's also involved. So Jessica has a parental, definitely a parental role with my daughter,

but she's also got this, which I think it's an advantage, is she kind of gets to be the cool

stepmom, you know, where she can kind of step in and have those conversations. Right. She almost

felt naturally into the coaching phase versus you had to transition from being daddy, daddy,

everything. And also just to being divorced, having her half the time. That causes its own

challenges. You want to discipline, but I see you. I didn't see you last week. You're here.

A window. Yeah. And what do we do? Well, how often does that happen? And what's more like

where, because you have that, since that's an interesting dynamic for me to ask about, is that

you're wanting your daughter to explore something or you're wanting her to fall on her own or

allow it? And then your ex is like, no, like how often does that happen? Where you don't, you guys

don't agree with like, like either restricting, restricting something or boundaries or allow it.

Oh, I got to be careful. I say here because I don't want to put too much out there, but I would

say, like right now we're looking at colleges, even though she's not, you know, she's not going to

be going for a couple of years, but I'm much more interested in the culture of the college

than I am, how cool it is or how nice it is or even what she thinks she wants. I'm interested

more in the culture because I think that's super influential on a kid. Whereas, you know, my ex-wife

is more like where she want to go. Yeah, where she want to go. And this is a great college. Maybe

that's the one she wanted to go to that shouldn't go to. Maybe there's a piece of that. But so there's

so there's some disagreement. Oh, that's an interesting one, bro. I feel like you lose that no matter

what. No, because I know because I pay. That's a great, that's a great response. My first

edition is like, oh, bro, you definitely lose that. That's actually I write. I don't want to pull

it, but I don't want to pull it. Oh, she can go to. She can go to that one. Oh, my God, what a good

boy. Oh, my God. I was like, you think you're going to win that one, bro, you're losing that

one. I read the check. Yeah. So ultimately, that's a trip car. I'll weigh all that out, you know,

don't get me wrong. Yeah, it's a little while from now. So maybe things will change. But

that's funny. Yeah, we're going to go look at some in fact in a month. I won't say where they

are because it's privacy. Yeah, but we'll be looking at it. It is the time though, because yeah,

my oldest is same age and he's he's interested in looking at colleges right now. Yeah, but you

know, there's a culture on campuses and different colleges have different. Well, that's school in

general. Totally. Yeah, that's cool. But I have this argument. I was talking to friends about

this and I heard this argument like, oh, there's bad cult kids and good kids in every cult. Yeah,

no, that's true. Okay, I get it. You can go to the best culture, but they'll run into the wrong

crowd. But the odds are better. Like, let's not forget like the odds are better. I think as a dad,

I'd rest what I'd have a hard time with is if my daughter or son is wanting to go to

school or like they're three best friends or two or three best friends are going and they want

to go to that school, even though it may not be my favorite school for them to go to, but it's

where their best friends are going that they went to high school with and grew up. That makes a

difference because that would make a hard versus she's going off to somewhere where she's starting

all over no matter what. Then she really wants to go to this place. And I'm like, I don't know

about Gico State or Arizona State or whatever the state is. I think either you go this too.

Give them though. That's also that. I think, because I mean for me, it was transformative.

It was like, I think we don't have that right of passage anymore. And I think if we can look at

college is like maybe an extension of that. It's like, you got to go off and reinvent yourself.

That's there's there's so much potential value in that. I mean, does that mean you could

also reinvent? I also think that has a lot to do with probably you both evaluating their friends

currently too though. Of course. Yeah. I mean, I mean, they'll still reconnect. I don't know.

It depends. Of course, my best friend and I go all the way back to fourth grade. So and my

other one all the way back to ninth grade. So of course, you can. Yeah. I'm definitely

somebody who believes that we can and I wouldn't different states. All the things, right? So

but I think that if I if I liked my sons, you know, core group of buddies and they're like,

hey, we're all going to Santa Barbara. Yeah. You know, college after high school and he really

want huge pool. Yeah. I would I would have a really hard time and let's say it's not my favorite.

You know, there's another piece here that we're not even talking about, which I've never I kind of

had this opinion before, but now even more so, especially in two years or four years.

Is it necessary? Oh, yeah. No, I definitely. Is it necessary to go to college? Yeah. This is what I

fight with. Oh, yeah, because the ROI in a lot of cases is not worth it. Like a lot of situations,

the degree you get is not worth the cost that you spent. You would have been better off. Maybe

not going. Yeah. And there's a lot of things now. You can go learn in college that I'm looking at

AI and I'm like, bro, by the time you graduate, you know, the interest. They better shift. Yeah,

they're options. Totally. Well, that's how they say, Justin is going to be interesting how you tackle

that where because you it's a weird time, especially when they, if what your kid tells you that

they want to go do and study, right? Right? Because they give you some that matters big time. Yeah,

I feel like that totally matters. Yeah. It's like. Oh, yeah. So get them in a mentorship internship

somewhere. It's a direct placement, you know, for something that they want to do. I think it's

such a better path. I've been talking my daughter about like, businesses that require people. So

like, do you like? Because she kind of wants to work with people. So I'm like, okay, those,

those, there's certain careers that will probably always need that like occupational therapy,

physical therapy, maybe even, you know, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy where you're working

with a person. And I'm sure regulations will prevent AI from doing that kind of stuff. Like that,

that I could see that potential. But like, bro, just just six years ago going to school for coding

was like, this is the best thing you could do. Now they're like, don't do that. You know,

did you know that they're watching interviews? I've seen a couple interviews or clips of people in

tech who run these big companies. And they're like, Oh, our, we have our coders haven't written

a single line of code since December. I imagine I imagine one of the most popular degrees in the

next two to four years is going to be AI degrees degrees in like the ability to program run and

and but I'm going to graduate. That's going to be a real thing. That's what I'm trying to say.

Dude, it's changing so quick. I mean, maybe, but let's, bro, you know, you know,

four years, yeah, but the ones that studied it are going to be on the front line of knowing

how that's going to do impact either that or if you love it, why don't you go learn it? Yeah,

but then the CEOs just be able to do everything. Yeah. Why don't you just go learn it? Go learn it

on your own right now because whenever they come out with another version, which is like, you know,

however months later, so that's like, that's easy for 40 something year old us to say, like,

well, I don't tell that to it. Tell that to a 17 year old. Yeah. Go teach yourself this. Like,

yeah, good luck. Well, I mean, if they're into it, that's part of that's part of the big benefit too,

is like, I mean, I remember when I was when I was 17, like, I didn't know for sure what I had

ideas. I mean, I went through, I'm going to be an architect. I'm going to be a lawyer.

I'm going to be a physical therapist. Like, I went through a lot of different things. I was

going to be what I wasn't sure. I almost went almost enlisted. You know, so it's like, yeah,

you know, part of the part of the good part of the college, I'd say, still is that ability to still

try different classes, meet different people with different opinions and views and maybe

backgrounds with different dads and moms that have jobs that it's like, and just being exposed

to other things that maybe you and your little bubble would have never thought you would have.

I wonder if the future of being enlisted is they're going to look at your resume and you're going

to be like, oh, I'm going to do a video. It's all a duty level. Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah, bro.

A hundred percent. Oh, you're level 56 and call it duty. Yeah, you're in. You're in.

That's going to be so wild of you to think about. All right. Let's change. Let's change

directions here real quick because I was looking up the the toxins that they find in farmed

fish versus wild caught. Oh, wow. It's pretty bad. It's so bad that they change the fish changes

sex in there. Sometimes. Yes. Sometimes. So like higher and heavy metals. Do you see the size?

I really win though. Right. So what? You can't really win because even the ocean like deep sea

fish. Now they have to find better ways to farm fish, I think. And you're right. Like,

that's the one place we we get meat in the wild. Yeah. Like we don't do that anymore.

anywhere else. We don't hunt cows. You can you pull up a screen shot to because I know that

they do this with farm fish. You know, they die the the fish. Yeah. So it will look like it's

the meat. Yes. Like how like yeah, how like how different does it look if they didn't die? What's

crazy to me is there's a dramatic difference in the taste of just farmed salmon versus wild salmon.

Yeah. If you put them next to it and I ate each one and I didn't know any better, I'd be like

this is different fish. And it's like the fat content. It's the fat content. The fat,

I'm like the fat amount. The fatty acid profile. Yeah, the profile. It's all so different.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's not saying it's unhealthy, but it's definitely better to go far

farmed salmon or not injected with. They are fed pigments. That's what it is. They're fed

pigments. Interesting. But while some often synthetic pigments are added to feed.

Same difference. Give them red. Yeah. Number 40.

Well, I mean, one of the one of the unknown things that butcher box does, because we talk

all about grass fed meat all the time, their heritage pork, they have a great selection of farmed

fish. I still got a smoke mine. I've got farm fish wild fish. I'm sorry, wild fish. Sorry,

thanks. You have a great selection of wild caught. Yeah, they don't sell farmed.

I have some of my freezer right now that I got from them that I have. I've been telling

that salmon. I want to smoke it. Yeah, I want to I haven't I haven't I haven't personally

smoked salmon. When you smoke salmon, you're not cooking it, right? Or are you? It is. It's just

it's a slow cook with with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a slow. It's a slow. I mean, in my opinion,

it's the I rarely ever use my gas grill ever. Almost only if I'm like if I'm in a hurry

to cook cook meat for something or maybe because I'm smoking on one and I'm using it for

something else and I'm using the gas grill for but slow cooking meat over smoke is such a you know

what you know, a dog taught me in regards to salmon years ago, we went to an advertising of like,

I don't know what it was convention or something like that. A course done in San Diego and he was

ordering salmon and never heard somebody say this before. You order steak when he's when they ask

you the temperature, right? Medium rare or whatever. Yeah. He'd be like, I'll have a salmon and I want

it medium rare. I'm like, you can say that with fish. And so I started doing that. Oh my god,

it's way better. Yeah. Oh my god. It's way better. Yeah. They don't even ask you to just cook it

that. Bro, salmon. Yeah. Because salmon is delicious because overcooked fish is dry. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you can eat fish raw. I mean, if you like salmon sashimi, then like why not have it

on the almost the raw side and you're probably better better off? Again, too. This is why I want to

smoke it because I like smoke it to like a kind of a roar. Yeah. And I that's I was we were

before we got on air. I didn't even know today was butcher box Mike. It would Doug and I were

talking about. Yeah, we're talking about salmon and asking where you can get it like that. Like I

I'll do it. I'll do it. And then they're all report back. My goal is to do it before the next. I

got to show you guys. I'm going to share this with you, Doug. So you can put it up on the screen.

Do you guys want to see the the cool it? This is not AI. This is a real. It's confirmed. It's a

Russian wrestler. Uh, bossy. Get easily. I can't even say his name. Forget it. I'm not going to say his name.

Doug put up put on the screen. This move that he did with three seconds left in the match.

So it's three seconds left. He's down. Okay. And he does this move, bro. And by the way, I will argue

this all day long that I think overall general athleticism. I think wrestlers high level wrestlers

yeah, are the best displays. No, I can't disagree. Well, we see that in in UFC still with all

these mixed martial arts. The guys that have the high pedigrees in wrestling almost always are

just animals. Okay. Oh, click on that. And then, and then, and then, uh, you look like

different kind of human. Can't watch this. This is with three seconds left. What tree does ready?

Jumps. Oh, what? In the boom. We left over jumps over here. Get some in a body lock. And then

that's it. Take that. That's it. I've never seen that before. I, yeah. Was that just like a

spontaneous idea? And he just jumped. Well, that's a real move. That's a real move. That's a real

move. I've never seen any. If you go over the top of someone, jump over. So you bring your feet

over. Yeah. And then you twist and do this kind of like, but he did it full of jump.

So he wasn't like on top of the guy. And then he did it from a jump. What a sick to catch it.

Like the sake on Barclay with your body. Yeah. What a sick. Side two plexus. Yeah. Did you

just pop up in your feet or something viral? Uh, so, so my algorithms, my algorithms often

have times we'll have wrestling and judo. Yeah. I mean, that's cool. That's a cool move right

there. Isn't that right? Yeah. That's it. That's it. All right. I got some studies to pull up on

Monocora honey. Um, some really cool studies on Monocora honey, which is kind of well. So, um,

I'm going to go through some of these healing honey. This is called that bro. Uh, I want to try it

on a cut. Oh, dude, it's crazy. I do. Man, you put it on post surgical wounds. And you get a,

your heel faster. Mm hmm. It shortens healing times for burns and surgical wounds. So if you have

a burn, put Monocora honey on it, put a bandit over it'll heal faster. Uh, it's also delicious.

It's also good for gingivitis. So, yeah, dude. So, so if you have like inflamed gums or

one or two, you could, I know, because of the sugar. Yeah. It's the MGO. And I think it's called,

is it MGO that's in there? Yeah. That is, uh, anti microbial. I don't know, because I have caps,

but sometimes I get like bloody, you know, gums like that. Let's say you're just greeting.

Ah, yeah. Do everything hard to eat rocks. Uh, did you guys know that honey, uh, was more effective

than over the counter cough suppressants for kids? No way. Yeah. There's a 2010 study because it

could. It's the throat. Uh, no, it actually is a component more effective than the cough syrup

for kids. So they have stronger cough stuff for adults, but so there are compounds in honey that

actually, uh, affect the part of the brain that causes the cough reflex. Oh, I see. Okay.

So it calms it down. It actually, it actually reduces the cough reflex. Interesting. What,

what is the, what's the prescription? Just one, one teaspoon of honey? Yeah. And yeah, and a

couple of times the next time Max gets to call him. And it tastes good. I'm going to, I know, I'm

going to try that versus given some cough syrup. They put it in like lemon tea. We're just

letting them take it straight off the spoon. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not like it tastes good. It's

too hot water. You know, you don't get it, you don't get to hide it anything like that.

It's also good for each pylori. So if you have each pylori issues in the gut or gut issues that

do the inflammation, uh, consuming it is good for that. I made it. I made it. It's like

natures. I know. We just went through, uh, colds in our household. Like what is a couple of

weeks ago when we were all talking on the show and, uh, I made Katrina and I, uh, hot toddies with

the honey. Yeah. I love it. Actually, it's whiskey. You know, that's the first time. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. They in line and like fresh, yeah, fresh squeeze lime whiskey and then, uh, water and

then the honey. Okay. And then you could actually put a little bit of, I did twice.

The cinnamon. And then I put a cinnamon stick in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Let me basically give that to kids when they have coughs. Dude, I, I have actually never

shot to whiskey. So only because recently, like alcohol has been a part of my life right,

since we've been doing this, uh, and I've never done that. I have never made a hot toddy when I

don't feel good. It's never thought. I've never thought I would want alcohol when I wasn't

feeling good. And I'm like, you know, I'm going to make myself one. I knew I had the monocular

honey. So I'm like, I'll use that. I had for I've aligned or lemon tree. So I did a fresh squeeze

lemon. And it was like, Katrina was like, oh my god. I feel this feels. Yeah. All the ingredients in it.

Like, yeah, besides it's going to be a go to move for me. The next time I have cold. I might have

to do that. I mean, you have to have before you feel better. I mean, I had to. Yeah, I do. I'm

a you can make a pretty stiff. You know what I'm saying? So and the and the cinnamon stick is if

you, if you like, I made the first one with no, no cinnamon, just water. And then I made another

one where I did a cinnamon stick. And then I did another time with apple cider, which has kind

of a cinnamon flavor to instead of the water. Okay. So if someone doesn't can't handle the

straight whiskey water. It's more like a hot cider. Yeah. So like probably like if like if you

were, I wanted to hear your money and happiness. Oh, I'll bring it up again. Because I saw you

posting your story. And I wanted to argue with you. Yeah. No, no. So so no, this is there's

data. There's a lot of data around. Yeah. There's a lot of data. You've seen this before. I've

seen this data. Yeah. So they've done a lot of studies on money and happiness. And the reason

why they do these studies is when people, besides the necessities, because you need money for things

that are necessary and a certain amount to feel secure, right? So above and beyond that,

people still oftentimes desire more money. I want to make more money. And you know, when you

boil it down and you ask people like, why do you want more money? It all boils down to I think

it'll make me happier. Now it might start out by saying, well, I want a bigger house or I want

a new car. I want to go on this vacation. But then you keep asking why? Well, why? Why? Why? Why?

And it's because, well, it'll make me happier. So they've done a lot, actually lots of studies on

this on what's the best ROI on money for happiness? So what's the best use of this extra money

where you're going to get the most happiness in return? Okay. And so, and so, well, yeah,

so you can thanks for giving it away. Yeah, I don't know. The end of the story.

So they they've tested it with the worst is to buy things. That's the worst. So buying something,

you get a spike in happiness, but then you can't repeat that. So if you buy the same thing again,

there's no effect. And then the happiness wears off quickly and then in flatline. So you buy a new

purse, you buy cool shoes or whatever. And for the most part, generally what we see in the data is

you get this like spike and it drops down quickly and then nothing else. And then if you repeat it

again, it's like a drug. You're just getting no effect, right? Get the same exact purse again.

There's no spike in happiness. Then the second, which is better is experiences. So this is where you

spend on like a vacation because you create memories as you go. Yes. And so you see a longer

happiness spike. And then when you think about that, depending on what happened, the more meaningful

the experience, the better the reoccurring happiness from thinking about it. Nonetheless,

you still get this diminishing return over time. So I keep thinking about it. Unless it was

profound experience, like this is when I met my wife or this is when I had my child or something

like that, you get this diminishing return and you still get this kind of like like a drug,

like a like your body gets used to it. And so if I think about that vacation 20 years later,

unless it was this profound thing, I really don't get this happiness again. And then the last one,

which was wild, is now there's some parameters around it. But the last one is if you use your money

in a way where you voluntarily give it to someone to help them. And if you really want to maximize

this according to the data, you see the outcome. So like you have a friend who's struggling,

evicted from their house or they're sick and they need medical bills and then you're able to step in

and help them. And then you see it passively, but you're like following it all the way. Yeah.

Then you get this high spike in happiness that lasts a long time. And then what they do in these

studies, as long as they follow the people. So however long the study is, every time they recall

that event, they get a similar spike in happiness with no draw. So it's like, hey, remember that time

we, we, you know, helped that, you know, that our friend in that situation or hey, remember,

when we donated to those to help feed the poor or we did that mission trip, they get the same spike.

And so if you're ROI, if you're interested in his happiness, the best ROI based on the data

is to give it away, which I think is really, really interesting. It's really cool. So I,

I knew where you were going to go with that. It's why I wanted you to talk about it because I've

thought a lot about this. And I think independent of each of those things that that makes sense

logically, but I also think that there's a way that all three of those can be fed. Give it an

example. I'll give you an example, like, meaning like a materialistic thing that gives the other two.

Oh, well, I'll give you an example. Okay. An example that would be, you know, Katrina and I could

have spent the rest of our lives in a, you know, a little condo that heard me max grew up in and

said, I bought a house, right? And this house, I designed it in a way and I bought it a certain way.

And one of the most amazing parts about it is that it fits all of Katrina's family in it. We can

all, and we've, I mean, we've thrown at least 10 or 15 parties in less than a year. So like,

once a month, practically, where I host 30, 40, 50 in my family, one of my favorite things.

So it's like, it's, it is a materialistic thing, right? Yeah, but that's not what's giving you the happiness.

Right. So it's enabling the thing. Right. So like, like, I think, like, comparing those

three cycles, like, I would say my shoes falls in that category. Sure. Once you buy one,

then you're on to the next one or whatever. And it's like, only serves me, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, very, but there's things like, and then I would even make that argument, like, my buddy and

I, who's a, who's a car nut, like, who's, he's been in cars for a long time, longer, even longer than

I have. And we were having lunch one day after a drive. And these, these kids, there's two special

needs kids came up, talked to us and they pulled out and they're all they're so excited. And we both

let them get in out of the cars. So with that, and him and I were making having this conversation,

that that's one of my favorite parts about that. Right. Like the initial enjoyment of the purchase

and the drive of it, once you've done all the cool things in it, but actually one of the gift

that keeps giving about it is being able to share that experience to someone's like, I've never

said it, or driven in one of these. And so I don't think it's as simple as this, like, you can't

get any of these other benefits from material things. What they call it is, God, there's a term for it.

It's like, if it, if there's a social component, that's not the term that they use. So like an

example would be like a guy who is pursuing, growing his business, because he wants to make more money.

But he uses that money to, I don't know, I'll use an extreme example, build orphanages.

Now he's got incredible happiness from building his business. So yeah, I think you could tie lots

of like lots of different things. So I said with the experience, I think it depends what happens

in the experience. Like, oh man, I went on this trip with my wife or the time we were dating.

And this is when I proposed to her. And so then, you know, you remember that time. Yeah.

So it's true. But generally speaking, and I know this because, or I think this is people believe

this, maybe, maybe not consciously, but subconsciously, maybe even sometimes consciously, because

companies advertise to us what what what gives them profit, which is the buy things. Yeah.

And the way that they sell it to us is they don't sell us the thing. They sell us the dream of what

the thing provides. Yeah. Which is happiness, freedom, status. You know, it's never like the purse.

It's like the purse, but the people see it. Now you feel like you're more important.

Well, remember that's I remember I I've shared with you before on the podcast, the exercise that

I do with myself before I make a purchase. There's there's like boundaries. Yeah, you wait like

24 hours before I, I won't, I won't, I won't make it. Then the next question is, is this something

that I feel like I got a show to everybody else or is this something for me? Right. So there's a

lot of layers that because of that reason, because I know that I can be advertised market to

impulsive about something and just simply creating those boundaries makes me really think about that.

But I mean, like using the house example is like, man, I feel like it's it's also a gift too.

So it's like this. It's a gift. It's the experience and it's a materialistic thing. It's all three of

those. It's like, and nobody in my family and our family has the the ability to have a house like

that that can host and do all that. So it's almost like every time. I mean, that's a great point.

Imagine having your big place and not being around any family. Right. How empty with that.

Totally. Yeah. Totally. And so and and and by the way, I learned this lesson. So I mean,

I know the last podcast we were teasing me about my bout. This is the like me. My house is not

that big. I had a much bigger. I've had a much bigger arguably fancier place with views and

everything to live. But we were just far enough away from family. Nobody came over. And I remember

Katrina and I being like, what is this for? Yeah. We got this cool place, you know, and maybe on

Instagram, it would look cool to show people. But it's like, if if I'm not using it to enjoy

family, do that, then it defeats the purpose. And so being where we're at in a smaller place

that's filled with love and people and to know that you that every time I do that, it's like,

it's like I get to give a gift again. And I get to experience something again. It's like, so

there's like, to me, there's a fine line because I feel like there can be very extreme people on

both ends. You can be this, you know, I'm on all material and status direction. You're going.

And then there can be like, nothing matters like money. I find it interesting. Like if you look at,

I mean, you're right. 100%. But I think a lot, I think more people struggle with the first part.

If they really, maybe they don't realize it. But if they really didn't analysis, it's like, man,

do I need all this stuff? And what do I think I'm going to get from getting these things? And

what happens is like, it's a feedback loop. It's like, I got this thing. I got the little spike

at happiness. It's gone. It's not happening again. Let me try getting something else. By the way,

the data shows on the other side too, when people give to help others, they are, then they start

to do it more because they start to feel it and realize it. And so it kind of just positive. Oh,

yeah. Feedback loop. So I mean, it's really, I think it's fascinating. It's interesting because

I don't think a lot of people realize that. But if you really think about it and like, what do I

want with this? Like, I got my stuff taken care of. What do I want with this extra money?

What do I really want? I just want to be happy. I feel secure already. I got my savings. We're good.

Yeah. Well, what do I want from how to be happy? Okay. Let me see. Let me try it in this one.

Yeah. Do you ever challenge yourself? Because do you ever think of yourself on one side or

the extreme or the other and challenge yourself to go outside that a little bit? Because I'll be

the first to admit that the first 30 years, I was probably somebody who leaned on that. You know,

I had to learn that lesson and maybe a little bit before 30 because I was doing things like the

the the stuff that you know that I've done before for families and things like that. And I

and I got to feel that. And that was a big, which by the way, I think for anybody that's such a

great exercise. Like if you've never done something like that, regardless of what what level you

I did, you don't have to be at a super level. In fact, I would argue because even when I did that,

way back when I wasn't in a major financial status to where I had lots of extra money to go

like you, I think it felt really good knowing that I didn't and actually still did that.

And being able to draw back on that memory of doing something for families like that go like,

wow, I could still think about that and get that spike, you know, a decade and a half,

two decades later or whatever. So I think that helps pull that back in a little bit. And then

just becoming aware of as you stack up some of those material things and I think my my sneakers

are a good example that very aware of the, you know, ridiculousness of of of that, right? Like

and it doesn't give it. There is no, nobody else is getting enjoyment. There's no real experiences

other than it being on my damn feet that you know what I'm saying? Like you should give them away.

I have, I've given a lot of my shoes. I've given away a ton of my shoes. I've given away.

So yeah, so I, but I do think there's also that. I mean, do you ever challenge yourself? Like,

you know, I would, I mean, I have, boy, I have challenges in a lot of different areas. Like,

I think God that this one is for me for whatever reason has never been an issue.

It never been like a challenge. Maybe because I grew up feeling

secure in this way. It was never a big deal with my family, I think. So you know, when it comes to

like money in that way, I've never felt challenges there. Thank God I have challenges in a lot of

areas where I really struggle. But that's one where I think God every day like, okay, this is not one

that I, this is a problem because I can see that one being a hard one, especially if you become

successful. Like, I can see that being a real challenge for some people or not being successful.

I think that would be even harder. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine being challenged that way. And also

feeling like, well, I think that's where a lot of people land. I think a lot of people land

in that place of like constantly chasing this. Well, look at the, the debt people have

with like just buying cars. Yeah. Like the average car payment.

Yeah. It's crazy. And most people have it shouldn't even own that car. What are they doing

a four? I think they're, they bought this kind of idea. Yeah. Did you see I shared with you? I

think you guys, the Krishna Gebes like on like the credit card debt of like the threats unbelievable.

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Our first caller is Benjamin from Switzerland. Hey Benjamin, I do a man. Hey, how are you guys?

Good. How can we help you? So a bit of context here. It's a two part question, but a few years ago,

basically, I lost a substantial amount of weight. And so it was a great benefit for my life,

but I eventually pushed things way too far, like with training volume, running intensity. And

especially the whole like calorie tracking aspect of things, which basically saw my hormones,

energy, and just a lot of blood markets, kind of just completely tank. And so for the last three

years, it's really been more of like a uphill battle in a way of trying to rebuild my body,

with my relationship with it, but also just managing overall stress better, especially with

I'm kind of leading to the three careers at the same time. So that's definitely a challenge.

I've run quite a few of your programs over the past couple years. Right now, I'm doing performance

again, not too sure if I should stick with it, but it seemed like a decent fit. And so my goals

right now basically are to try and put on some muscle again, because I feel like I've been spinning

my wheels, but without overdoing the volume. I've been very into mobility and like handstand trainings

also. And recently did pick running backup, which I know sounds counterintuitive,

but I've really focused more on just the joy of it without tracking metrics too much,

and I've been loving it so far. So yeah, more than anything, I think, to be honest, it's more about

getting back to feeling like the little ball of energy I used to be known for being, being I guess.

Yeah. So yeah, good question. So in your email, says you lost over 100 pounds?

Yeah, in the space of around two years, I lost around 135 pounds. Great job.

Wow, you look great. Great job, man. And so now the main goal is, I just want to feel better and

have more energy. Yeah, I think obviously the muscle and all that, like that's something that

will come with time, but it really is just like you said, the daily energy, just feeling good.

And whether that's also with my relationship with food, exercise, and it's gone so

quickly already, but obviously it's always a work and progress. And then you said you have about

three careers going on right now. Can you explain that a little bit? So basically I'm a professional

musician. I'm a cellist. So I'm a performing soloist after having done my post-grad in that.

But at the same time, I'm working in my family business, which is a dermatology, but also

longevity clinic now. So I'm working in that aspect of things and studying to become a health

coach at the same time to kind of mend the two together. Okay, so this is a lot of work.

Yeah, yeah, long days. Okay, okay. So losing that much weight is a, is profoundly transformational,

but also it's a big deal on the body. You lost the whole human off your body. And what it takes to

get there is not where you want to stay to maintain. And you're probably feeling the low energy

because you're just, you're just doing too much. And you want to go through a period of rejuvenation

and rebuilding. And you're going to need to go through this period for probably a year or two

before you start to ramp things up and chase different goals. So you got to, you're going to have to

go through a period of rest essentially. Now that doesn't mean you don't exercise, but everything

that you do is kind of moving in that direction or centered towards that or aiming towards that.

And what you'll notice from that is more energy. So less is more with this process.

You know, maps 15 would be your strength training protocol. Yeah. If you really, really love running,

I guess it's okay. But if you want the energy, I would walk and just focus on steps. I would just

make sure you're fueled if you're going to do that running. Like where, where, I mean, you don't want

to be running and really low calorie too. That would be a bad recipe. Running with the proper

amount of nutrients and calories for the enjoyment of it, I could see. Okay. But if I was training

you, I'd want to know where we're at calorie wise before I let you go and run and do that. I mean,

kind of where Sal's going and where my brain goes with where you're at in your life. He did such

an incredible job getting down to where you're very, you're, you're a much healthier fitter place.

Your workouts should try your workouts actually shouldn't be your focus. Your focus should be

kind of the career, your passions staying healthy. And so you should train to be that person.

You've done such a good job getting here. And then all the other things, the energy, hormone

stuff, all that stuff will balance itself out because you work out to support your lifestyle

what you're doing, not to get to a certain place. You're at a place in your life where you have a

lot of stuff going on. You've already accomplished the big, the big rock, which was getting all that

weight off your body and putting yourself in a healthy weight. Now, now what, like your workout

optimization looks like is, is really doing the, the least amount to elicit the most change,

which is just a minimal dose that keeps you strong, gets you good rest, keeps you mobile,

but not trying to stretch yourself and like hit these goals and trying to gain a bunch of

muscle or get really good at BJJ or it's like, that's what's going to optimize you for longevity.

And Benjamin, that doesn't mean you're always going to be there. Right, right. Okay, because

this period of your time, this is a season. So to put it differently, you went through a radical,

physical, and psychological transformation losing all that weight. And so now your body needs to

go through a period of rest. That was a radical change. So like, like when I work with a woman

who gets pregnant and has a baby, they're always like, how quickly can I get back in shape?

How fast can I get back to how I was like, well, hold on, we just went through a radical change.

It's getting, now that doesn't mean you don't progress afterwards, but it's going to take a couple

years before you start to like feel like, oh, like I'm back to my old self because that radical

change, your change was massive, 135 pound weight loss physically is a big deal, but it's also

psychologically a big deal. Like your mind had to change quite a bit to go from where you were to

where you're right now. Now, so now you got to go through a period of rest and recuperation.

Yeah, which is probably going to look like a year or two, which also, by the way, though,

is the fastest path to you feeling better. You white knuckle only way, though you white knuckle

in it and trying to work your way back to a healthier version of yourself is not going to work.

No. So this is not like one of those things. It's like, can I do this and can I do that? Can I

do this to get to me to feel this way? It's like, honestly, the less you do in this situation and

focus just on healthy, rest, recovery, doing as little as possible to build some strength. And

that's what it looks like. So this is not one of those things of one or all the things I can do to

get there faster. The fastest path actually looks like the kind of laying off like what

Sal is alluding to right now. That is the fastest path. And I think you'll see positive changes

relatively quick before I think he's setting the table. So you have to set your expectations right

that this could take a year or so to get back to feeling like the best version of you. But you

could start to feel that right away and a lot sooner. But it's not through doing more. Yeah,

the reason why I'm saying a year or two is because you are going to feel better quickly.

And you might be fooled into thinking now I can ramp things back up. Because if you

started following Maps 15 right now and you did no additional strength training, no additional

workouts. And all you did was Maps 15 and walk. Okay, no exercise, no running, no calisthenics.

That'll be JJ. No, nothing. Just just walk every day and make sure I get you know eight to 10,000

steps. And then my lifting looks like Maps 15, which is like to the energy be through the roof.

Within within a month, you're going to notice an increase and energy and you're going to feel good.

And then you're going to be fooled into thinking, okay, now I can ramp it back up. Yeah, yeah.

What I'm saying to you is you got to have a year of that, a year of feeling good, a year of

that rest before you start to ramp things up. Maybe even two years because that's 135 pounds is not

nothing. Most people don't even get close to that weight loss. You literally lost an entire human.

So, so that's the direction you want to go. And the reason why you feel like you're doing these

things, but your energy isn't good is because much it's time now to let your body settle after all

that massive shift. Because if you keep pushing, which by the way, pushing isn't going to look like

a lot. So because you may judge it, you may think, well, this is not that much. I know people

who work out like that. Yeah, but they lose 135 pounds. So give yourself like a year or two

of sitting in that rest. And then I promise you, it's going to be like, oh, man, I can start ramping

things up and you'll be a brand new person. Yeah, it's it's fine because like I obviously,

and it's what we always say, like I know deep down that that's exactly what I would tell others.

And it's always harder. And it's always way. Yeah. We never follow our like on advice. And

that's why already I've now, it's been what made me eight or eight months maybe also that I

decided to put BJJ on the side. And that was tough. Like I, I really fell in love with it. And

they also, it was one of my outlets in the beginning to kind of shift my focus away from all the

calorie tracking and all that. And it gave me this kind of focus that I mean, you've talked about

it of like just performance and that kind of aspect, but I realized that it's still not the right

moment. And I'll pick it back up. I'm sure later on. But that was kind of, I know that was rough

for me. But if I, if I'm honest with myself, like I know that over the past four years since I lost

I would wait like, I've hovered around the same five kilos, which is maybe like 10 pounds. So like

trying these like kind of books, but then stopping a bit shy because I felt uncomfortable with it.

Also, from my perspective, there's a side of it is always hard to judge in terms of, I know I

like this obviously some new skin and stuff like that. So judging like also where I'm at, body

was like, like body fat percent and all that is objectively deceiving. And that often is a

barrier in itself to, you know, just trust the process. And I've really worked since like September.

So to just stay on, I set this goal of whatever happens, like I'm not going to do anything too

drastic in terms of trying to even approaching the holidays is the first time I didn't approach it

with a cut or anything. So like I've done huge improvements in terms of that. But it's always, yeah, it's

it's something I know, like it will take time. I'm just trying to navigate kind of this.

How do I, yeah, the working out in terms of Benjamin. I know you don't need much. Let me encourage you.

Let me encourage you. Okay. What you did to lose 135 pounds is a lot harder than what you need to do

right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You're being really hard on yourself. Number two, I've never seen

somebody lose over 100 pounds and look as good as you do. Yeah. Never. Yeah. You sent some pictures.

I'm like muscular. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you talk about loose skin. It's like like you look like

your body bounced better than I've ever seen. Yeah. And I've worked with a lot of people who've

had some pretty radical transformations through bariatric surgeries and like. So you're doing great.

Okay. Here's, here's a deal. Okay. You're afraid of going back to where you were before.

And I get that. Here's how you should approach your nutrition. Stop tracking, eat until you're

satisfied, eat whole foods, hit your protein. That's it. That's it. Don't weigh yourself because

that's going to mess you up. And try not to study yourself in the mirror or take pictures of

yourself too much. And don't try and feel good. Don't try and bulk or cut. Feed the body when

it's hungry. It's a beautiful thing when it'll, it'll tell you how much you're getting healthy

and you're strength training with like a maps 15. It will tell you when it needs more calories

to build that muscle. And it'll tell you when you're satisfied and fine. It's a beautiful thing.

So long as it's whole natural foods, you can trust your satiety signals much more. So you just

see whole natural foods, hit your protein targets, which is your body weight and protein at that first.

Follow mass 15 and just walk to the day you're good. That's it, dude. And yeah, it's going to be

hard, but it's, I'm telling you right now, it is what you went through to get here way harder, dude.

Yeah. You're being really, I think you're just got some fear because you're maybe afraid of going

back to where you were before or whatever, but I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah, for sure.

And like I think it's kind of part two of the question if that's all right. Yeah.

I think you hit a right note about the fears that like I'm very aware of it. But there's

in a sense, also a bit of imposter syndrome, I think, because a big thing for me right now,

like a massive goal and like driving purpose in my life, which I've always had from playing

the cheddar, you know, performing for people. It's I want to help people and like, so,

and in this case, I basically want to help them avoid the mistakes that I made along the way.

And so like I know that everyone goes through the struggles, but there's that aspect of

it. I'm still struggling with certain things. And I'm very honest about it. I have no issue

talking about it, but managing that kind of reality of things while also being able to help others

in their life journeys and transformations. Lean into it. Lean into it Benjamin. That'll

make you better. Lean into it. You've been listening to the show for a long time. Yeah.

I knew you were going to say that. Of course, I'm going to say that I could have coded you, I think.

Because if you've listened for a long time, you know, that's what makes this show is that

we're not afraid to share our struggles, the things today still today, you know, what we go through

and our mishaps and what we learned and how silly and stupid we were before and how we keep

making mistakes. People connect with that and people will resonate with that and they'll respect

that. So lean into that. Lean into where you're at in your journey, where you get imposter syndrome

is when you try and pretend you're something you're not. And people will appreciate the vulnerability

and appreciate what you've accomplished already is amazing and can help so many people from your

story. Don't try and pretend like you have all the answers and you've figured it all out. Let

them know you'll be an imposter. That's right. Then you'll feel imposter syndrome. Be who you are and

where you're at and open with what you're still trying to figure out. And that is what will resonate

with the people that you're helping and you'll help way more people that way and you'll be far

more successful if you come from that place. Yeah. And I started showing actually some social

media content like focused around cooking because I love cooking and giving like kind of healthier

tips around that like meal prep, like you often like I may have used you a couple of times

of cooking batch meats of the dinner before. But yeah, I tried to like because it's been a

way to reclaim kind of power over food like the way that it controlled me and I'm trying to funnel

that also. But yeah, I know I'm stepping in the right direction. It's more just kind of

being able to strip things down and get a clear view. Yeah, I have no I have a lot of confidence

that you're going to do great. You're doing good, bro. Yeah, I think that the discomfort you feel

is because you're such a fast grower. It sounds like it sounds like you're pretty rapid with personal

growth when you kind of decide to go in a direction. And that's always uncomfortable. But you're

going you're doing great, bro. You're doing really, really well. Give yourself a good year of rest.

So that's how you approach your exercise. A good year of rest around food, which means you're not

watching every bite. You're just eating when you feel hungry, sticking to whole natural foods,

hit your protein first. That's your those are your those are your guardrails. I think it's great

if you help other people. I think that's one of the things that saved me from going too crazy

was that I helped other people and be honest and be just totally honest. That makes you a better coach,

better trainer. That's it. That's it. Yeah, you're doing great, dude. Yeah, and I just wanted to say

yeah, thanks for all the stories also that you guys share. I know recently Adam everything

you've been talking about like it just like what I want to be able to provide to others like it

really does help give a lot of a more human like approach to this. So I think it's yeah,

it's amazing what you guys have been doing. Awesome. Thank you. You're gonna do great, brother.

Yeah, do you have Math 15? Do you have any of those programs? I'll send some. So actually,

I do have 15, but I was wondering if maybe to make Justin happy also. Do you reckon Maths 15

performance could be something to look at? Yeah, yeah, I'll send it to you. They're both great,

you love them. Nothing too much. Yep, you got to do good. Bye, buddy. And if I can ask one last

little suggestion, yeah, you guys should consider doing some sort of like Maths inner or Maths

inner circle program with Jordan's side at once. I'm sure that's something a lot of people would

love. Yeah, awesome. We love Jordan. Yeah, he's great. Sure, man. He's great. All right, Benjamin.

Take it easy, brother. Keep it up. All right. By the way, he's the way he looks after losing

135 pounds. It's like best. I know. It's crazy because 135 pounds. Yeah, it's massive. Well,

you gotta go through. Look, you go through a drastic dramatic first of all losing 30 pounds.

Of body fat is a big change mentally, physically 135 pounds. Yeah, you're going to need a year

to just sit in it and just let your body rest recuperate. You were chasing for that whole time.

It's really good that we had a discussion around that because I know what you mean when you say

that, but I think a lot of people hear that and they think, a year, yeah, I got a way to

year to see results. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I just think that it's or just

thing. It's going to be that long until they feel good at all. It's like, no, you'll feel

you'll feel better and better every week. And then you've got to just wait a year.

I think crazy. And you're right. What happens to people is they start off the right path by taking

the advice and then a month or two later, they feel great. And then they start to ramp it up

and they go right back. And so that's really the advice is that, listen, you're going to be,

you're going to be feeling really good pretty quick, you know, a couple, a couple of months of

taking that advice, walking and eating like that and and training mass 15 30, 60 days, he's

going to be feeling really good. What the what he doesn't know is that his body's not really good

yet. And he's staying that place for a year. And that's going to be the hard part is the

temptation to want to ramp up and do more. Our next caller is John from Kentucky. What's up, John?

How you doing, John? How you doing? Yes. Good. How can we help you, man?

Well, I'll just start with the emails. Most people do. I said, hello, guys. First of all,

I want to thank you for information that you guys put out and the way you put it out there.

So many people like to make things sound so complicated. And I really appreciate the simple way

you guys put it out. So let's call my folks and understand it. Back story time, 47 years old,

six foot four, 320 pounds down from 380 at my heaviest. It's been several years to get there.

Yo, yo, back and forth on and off. So top two diabetic. I am on

Moncharo. More for the diabetes and the weight loss for my doctor keeps pushing me to try to get

my dose up. I'm currently on 7.5 milligrams weekly. It's the auto injector, all or nothing.

Do have low testosterone. I was sub 100 when we found out about it.

They put me on 200 milligrams every other week. Levels come up to about 404 average.

So I've talked to my doctor and they're putting me on 200 milligrams weekly. And after listening to

your MP hormones podcast the other day, I've decided to start even breaking that up and doing

the Monday Thursday. Like I can't suggest it on that video. So doing the 100 on Monday,

100 on Thursday just started that this week. So I can't really tell you how well it's

working for me, but hopefully it works a lot better than what this has been. I am a stage three

rectal cancer survivor with a stage one reoccurrence almost two years later. Luckily,

they were able to catch that reoccurrence super, super early. So it allowed for a surgical procedure

that didn't leave me with any kind of a permanent class to me, or stuff like that. So

definitely thank God for that one, because I was struggling with that. And so I'm an athlete

trainer at a local hospital here where I live. Job's not always physically demanding, but there's

lots of standing, lots of moving. And I've always been the fat guy. We've been the fat kid

and started to stop more times that I can count. Kind of tired of it. Time to make a change.

Sorry, I waited so long and allowed to do it, but I got to do it. So

looking around on Spotify for a podcast on fitness over 40, and I found your episode about the

best workout diet and supplement routine from year to 40. I rode everything down, so doing

everything to the letter. As with most knuckleheads, I decided to add a third day to it and

said I'm doing the two days. And it's what it is, right? More is better, right?

So after 10 weeks of that, which we're at 12 weeks now, I'm making good progress. At least I was,

ended up with a pinch nerve in my neck, my doctor that's my medical director here confirmed that.

Yesterday put me on some high-dust steroids and some muscle relaxers, doing a little bit of PT

with a buddy of mine to kind of hope to get that lined out pretty quick as quick as I can and get

back into doing everything. My nutrition isn't perfect. I worked in crazy hours, do the best I can,

was trying to eat whole foods, doesn't always work. Sometimes subways the best I could do that day,

or unfortunately pizza. So I remembered about 2600 calories a day, 160 grams of protein,

236 grams of carbs, 121 grams of fat. So I was losing with the pinch nerve. I was losing some,

actually a lot of strength in my left arm as far as the triceps go, having pain and muscle spasms

in that tricep. Didn't know if I was overtraining or if it was the pinch nerve,

then if I'd had this the pinch nerve, I'd probably overtraining a little bit too with not enough calories

to be my guess, but elbow kind of kicks out, gives out when I'm trying to do any kind of chist

or tricep exercise. So I started to go backwards on that, really kind of hit me a little bit. I

was doing it so good that that back spot kind of hurt me there a little bit, but I just I want

to know you guys opinion of what I need to do now. I mean obviously after I get this pinch

nerve on the control, where do I need to go from here? Yeah, you're doing pretty well. I mean,

the the black and white answers. And by the way in your email, you said they wanted up your dose

of mongrel. Yes, my doctor keeps trying to get me to to push that up and I keep fighting her.

And as a matter of fact, I've got an appointment next week and I'm going to I'm going to tell her,

I want to drop back down. I want to drop down to the five, the five milligram to get up

It calls us so much GI problems with me. It really hits me hard. When I take it to the beginning

of the week for the first two or three days, it's miserable, then it kind of gets better,

but then it's time to take it again. And I'm just tired of the the GI problems with it.

Is it is it constipation diarrhea? Is it as a reflex all of all the above?

It's diarrhea. It's just nausea, that kind of stuff.

Okay. Well, I will tell you to though, just so you know, the most likely at least in my experience,

the subway sandwiches and the pizza will exacerbate that for sure too. Just so you know, like yes,

it definitely does not do well on foods that your body doesn't digest easy. It definitely makes all

those things really, really difficult. So my clients that that have struggled with this,

helping them connect those dots that hey, it's like when you're taking that stuff,

it's even more important to eat super clean. And if you don't, you're going to,

you're going to end up paying for it. You could take, you could try, you could try

Sillium husk fiber. And you take that with each meal. And oftentimes it makes a difference.

Okay. Yeah, with with the GI stuff. Okay. So I mean, here's the thing. You want to be consistent

with nutrition? Yes. Okay. And maintain that. And then as far as workout is concerned,

I can send you one of ours. So you have something to follow. But you know, also just taking a step

back on, you said, this is something we've been just cycling that's challenged you've been dealing

with since you were a kid. Yes. Okay. Your best bet is, I don't know if it's, if it's feasible for

you, but working with a coach is going to be your best bet because it's going to be a bit of a process.

So it's so, you know, we have really good coaches. You would work with them. And the

what they would do is they've taken through step by step. So they start you off with nutrition.

They look at what you're doing. We'll start tracking. Make adjustments as we go along.

They'll also make adjustments to your workout programming. We could send, you know,

videos of your technique and your form. And then just continue to coach you along the way

because it is going to be a bit of a journey. I will say I think you're doing a great job. Yeah.

You get the hormones down. Looks like you've already lost like 60 pounds or something like that.

Yes. Really good. You're moving in the right direction for sure. Which would make you a really

good candidate for now taking the step and working with a coach. And I think six months of coaching

would be super transformational for a guy like you. I think it would be very, very, very

transformation. Also really good timing with you getting the TRT up because 400 is still low.

Now you're going to, you're going to end up being higher than that now. Which is going to be so

nice. And that's, and, and if you do hit those macros, if we can hit those map, those are good

macros. You're the numbers you gave. If we can be consistent with that TRT levels up,

following good programming. Real good consistent program. Yeah. You should, you should start doing

really well. So now that doesn't mean we won't have tough weeks and backslides, but that's what

the coaching and what Sal is talking about is in those moments and those times that the coach

is just like, all right, this is what I want you to do from here. Probably the biggest mistake

clients do when they're on their own with this is hard swings one way or they're either doing

really, really good or, ah, you have really shitty bad eating and bad, bad couple days or

like that. Yeah. And, and sometimes that's over committing yourself to too much, too soon at

certain stages. So that, and this is what good coaching looks like is that that consistent

conversation where it's like, you know, as a coach, I can see, okay, there's a couple things he's

doing here that I don't want I'm doing, but I don't want to tell him to stop all that stuff.

I'm going to have him just focus on this one thing, right? And let's get better at this. And then

and that that's what it looks like is just attacking one one thing that's going to make improvement.

And then another thing that's going to make improvement. You have to coach determine that. Yeah,

and the coach determines that for you to help you stack these wins. So it doesn't feel like this

pendulum swinging back and forth really hard. Just to give you just so you know that the hard

swings, ah, part of the reason why it's a hard swing to the to the good side is because you feel

like crap about, you know, what just happened. I just fell off. I just ate all pizza whatever

then you swing right one direction. And then you hate it. And then you swing hard

in the other direction. And so yeah, here's several times I've lit, you know, several times I've

lit, you know, a bad day or two bad days or something just kind of kind of sabotage that. And I'm

like, well, crap. And then yep, you know, here we go. But and you know what, here's a deal too like

feeling crappy about yourself in that way only makes it all worse. And this sounds logical,

by the way, you know, you probably understand this up here. But, but you know, getting through

the process and feeling it, you know, in here makes a big difference. So I'll give you this advice

right here. You're the coach will be very effective. The more honest you are and the more you turn

to them. Okay. So what you don't want to do is keep from them, the little mess ups, keep from

them, the challenge, keep, they tell you like, look, I don't want to do that. Be honest with them.

That'll allow them to coach you in a very effective way. I think in six months, you'll be

huge, huge difference. You'll have some definitely some physical changes for sure. But just the

mental place you're going to be in very different in six months. And it'll be your odds of success,

consistent success, we'll go through the roof. So that's essentially what you'd be looking at.

Okay. Yeah. You want somebody to call you? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I'll talk to somebody.

All right. I'm going to have someone call you, John. Okay. And I'll let them know what we talked about.

And then I hope to see you in there, dude. Yeah. All right. All right, brother.

You got a good man. Yeah. Appreciate you. Yes. Thanks.

I just want people to know too, like listening, like, it's very easy for us, experienced,

you know, fitness guys to tell them the right answer. Of course. That's not hard. That's easy.

The hard part is like, okay, now we got to do it. And we got to do it consistently.

You messed up. What do we do now? And you know, you're looking at, you know, for guy like this,

with what he's gone through, you know, between six months to a year of that real transformation,

we're then it's like, you know what? I can do this. I got this. I can do this on my own.

Well, and I'm so glad you say what you said with the last piece of advice of being honest with

your coach, because a lot of the success or the failure of this is hinges on that. That's right.

If he's really transparent and like, man, that was really hard to do those things.

Or I really like that. Or I, you know, I screwed up and I did this thing. A good coach will be

able to see that and go, okay, work with what you tell. Yeah. And then I know it's like, okay,

I gave him a little too much to anticipate. I do a little too much too soon. Let me just have him

do this. And then we start stacking wins. And then I can add another thing. And so then

getting that. And that's a six month to a year type of journey. What happens sometimes,

oftentimes I would say, is the person does well in the beginning. Then they start messing up

they hide it from the trainer. Right. Or they tell them and then they get sick of telling them

that they messed up a bunch of times. So they hide it. And then they stop seeing the coach. But it's

not because they don't like the coach is because they're like, I just don't want to deal with this.

Yeah. I don't want to be that failure or whatever. So you just got to keep turning. They'll

keep turning. They'll be way more effective if you do that. Our next caller is Rebecca from Florida.

Hi, Rebecca. Hi, Rebecca. Hi. Huge fan. So excited to be here. Thank you. Thanks for

calling in. How can we help you? So my husband and I are starting our first cut. We've been

on a bulk. So we both like to give you a little background, I started weight training about a

year ago. Got in a big accident was had to kind of change up my routine. So started weight training

for the first time. Fell in love with it. Started doing a bulk to build up my muscles. So

been doing reverse diets. We listened to your advice all the time. I'm kind of working out every

day for five to six times a week. Now we want to start a cut and wanted your nutrition advice.

Workout advice. We're thinking about changing our workout routine to about three days a week.

Our training and kind of doing more full body. We did the push pull legs and then a variety of

other exercises. So want some advice on that and some advice on nutrition. All right, Rebecca.

First off, I'm going to ask you why you want to do a cut. You look amazing.

Yeah, you look like you're like low 20s body fat person. What do you want to try to get to?

Well, like I've gained 10. So I've gained about 10 pounds. I'm about a 22 percent body fat,

but I've gained about 10 pounds. So I'm feeling like what do I do next? I don't want to like keep

gaining, but I want to make sure that I like where your calories are right now.

So I don't track that. Okay. Because I feel like I've been super hungry since I started. That's

such a good, that's you getting. I eat a lot. Like I, you know, we try to keep up our protein goals,

but I don't, we don't track macros or calories. So Rebecca, what's your, what's your husband's

body fat percentage? Is he tested? He's now at 21. So he went from 175. He went up another 10 percent.

And then the also question is, we love working out together. We're really busy. We have three

kids. This is our time together. Can we be doing the same or should we be doing this? Yeah,

work out fine. But okay. So here's what I'm going to tell you. I don't think you should go on a

cut. He could go on a cut. Yeah. Yeah. Your body fat percentage is low 20s. You're 22 percent. I

can see that you got some muscle healthy range. You're, you're 50. If you go on a cut,

you're not going to like the way it feels at all. In fact, the better way for you to get leaners

to keep building muscle, especially if you're getting the signal that you're still hungry. Yeah.

You'll actually get leaner easier. Yeah. You get leaner easier if you just focus on building.

For you. Yes. Yes. If you start to cut what'll probably happen is you'll lose some muscle.

Hormones are going to go not that good and you're not going to be very happy. So I would have you

continue on the reverse and you can slow it down if you want and just try to keep building muscle.

I don't know where your husband's calories are at. So unless they're low, then that would be

different. But but if he's at 21, we both try to eat and we have three kids, teenage kids,

we have big dinners, but we have a lot of protein. We eat a lot of meat. Okay. Good. Good.

He is. So what about the fitness of what about the training routine? So we've been doing like

five days. We were thinking about doing now cutting it to three days full body. I love that.

Antibolic. Mapsetabolic. I think some like cardio on on the off days. Like on two days.

Perfect. Love that. That's perfect. Love that. Mapset of Mapsetabolic with the cardio on the off days.

Yep. Yep. Two days a week. So Justin actually bought me muscle money muscle mommy maps.

Yeah. 15. But I can't figure out how to get it into the routine that I'm doing.

Why don't I just send you the original muscle mommy would, yeah, probably be better fit.

Yeah. The original. The original working out of three, you know, a few days a week.

In the trigger sessions, you do cardio. Yeah, that's it. I'll send you that program. You follow that

and your husband can follow along if he wants to change some of the outs. Which give him muscle,

give him a Mapsetabolic. And you guys can both be working out at the same time doing similar

stuff. It's a different programming. Yeah. But put him on it. Put him on anabolic. He can run a cut.

You stay the same. And so is there, okay, since you don't track, uh, should we track?

I mean, well, I'm not gonna, I never would force a client because you, especially as great as you

look and you're doing such a good job. But I would ask a little bit deeper questions about you.

Like if you were to tell me what's our bad thing? Like do you? Are you? Do you? If you're not

eating perfect, what does it look like? Uh, our bad thing is not food. It's drinking. So we're

trying to stop drinking during the week. Okay. Okay. So here's my advice to you. If you want to see

yourself lean out a little bit, try and replace the alcohol calories with meals. So instead of,

instead of drinking, instead of 160 calories of the wine, have a meal. That's like a real small.

You're not having 160 calories or nobody has a 160 calories on there. This guy. Do you have what?

Do you have one? Do you have one? Do you have one two out one two ounce glass? Oh, no. Yeah.

I'm sure you have four. I'm sure you have four or five hundred calories with a wine, which is

normal when someone's having a nice night of drinking. So without Katrina and I enjoy that everyone.

But if you want to see your body change a little bit more without tracking doing that, do your best

to replace the alcohol with a good meal, a good bounce meal with the way your metabolism going,

the way your building muscle, you will build more muscle, you will lean out if you can do it. And

listen, I'm going to tell you to do it forever. Just do it for me for a couple of months and I'll show

you what that your body and guess what? When you build the more by switching that for a little bit

building the muscle, your metabolism go up, then you can get away with more of the alcohol later on

and still keep a better body. So if that's your thing, it sounds like you're doing a lot of the

other things, right? And I bet the extra protein that your body will need will fuel that building

muscle. That would be it. That's all I would change. That's enough that you told me enough right

there to go. That little tweak for a couple months will not only lean you out, but you'll see

yourself, your waistline probably come in and you'll build muscle and you'll look amazing. Your

husband can probably go a little bit on a cut on anabolic. You guys will be awesome. He can cut

the alcohol in that replaceable food. He talked to Marcelo from your team. I gave him some

nutrition advice. He called with him. He gave him my advice on like how to like look at food with

using your hand and it was really helpful. Okay, good. There you go. Perfect portions. Yeah,

you guys are you're doing. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. But Sal's right. I would not put you I wouldn't

put you want to cut it off. You're making any sense. And that and especially since you tell me

too, you have these crazy hunger. Your body's trying to build. It wants to build more muscle. You'll

run the risk if you try to go on a cut of losing muscle and ending up with less muscle. Same

body. I don't want to do is lose because that works really hard. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And you will

it keep going in that direction. And if you just replace the extra calories that are coming from

alcohol with meals with pro high protein meals, you're going to you'll build muscle and you'll lean

out. Do you do you guys recommend a three meals a day or like eating more frequently with

the personal preference. Yeah, it depends. It's personal preference, but keep this in mind. Okay,

it's really hard for both men and women to hit their protein intake with like three or less meals.

It typically takes at least it is. It's hard to get that many grams of protein. Unless you

guys you're you're eating 10 ounces of meat every time you eat, it's hard to get enough protein

each time, especially early on breakfast meals. That's where most people have the hardest time.

So four meals normally looks like a good spot, you know, with with balanced protein is a good spot

to be at. If you do less, you just got to keep in mind that you got to really eat a big portion of

meat to make up for that protein. So yeah. And if you guys were to ever track anything that would be

the thing I'd have you track first is just just see if you're hitting your your grams of protein

every day consistently. And I bet I bet if we were to just track that and watch that because you

get some of these empty calories from alcohol, alcohol occasionally, if anything's low, it's protein.

And I bet if you bump that up, you'll see more muscle come on and you'll lean out because those

are just empty calories are not doing anything for you other than enjoyment. But I'm not going to

tell that forever because if you like that, I like that. Katrina and I, Katrina loves wine.

I like having a nice class of whiskey. I absolutely balanced that in my life. But when I'm trying to

make some changes, that goes aside for a little bit, give me a couple months of running it and

making good and it makes a huge difference, huge difference. Yeah. And your fight, the fitness

routine changing it from the five days to the three days of weight plus the two days of

those. Yeah. Yeah. It's you're good with that. Yeah. You'll probably get stronger. You're

going to get you're going to get stronger and you're going to build muscle. It's going to be great.

Yeah. Yes. You're going to. I want to thank you guys so much. You have helped us both both

personally in our relationship by starting this together professionally. I run a small company that

trains teachers and we've started like with hard behaviors with children and started introducing

some of this wellness to them. And it has changed the way that they walk into their classrooms

every day. So I listen to all the time. And a lot of what you share, I try to share with the

teachers I work with and it's been super helpful. So thank you guys. Thank you. That's really

good. Thank you. Got it. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I got to say,

I'm just going to just people listening. If you're a woman over the age of 40, you've been

strength training, your body fat percentages in the low 20s, don't go in a cut. Don't go in a cut.

You're going to get negative effects from it almost always. Listen, I don't.

22% lean. I don't care what you age, what age you are as a female. This is what we're experiencing.

I experience with Karen right now. Yeah. Or our body fat percentage was too low that are

are like before we started seeing the results. I see it needed to be up to see. That's right.

It's like the most way to back up. And you've been saying this for a very long time. Most

one, there's always exceptions to the rules. Right. But for the majority, most women do better.

19 plus percent as far as the results. Yeah. And we've talked about that. You recently talked about

this with just being mind blown about where I just came in at higher body. A body with more muscle

on it at higher body fat percentage looks way better than you think it does. It's just a skinnier

body. So if she puts on five pounds of muscle, she'll look three percent. Even if her body

fat percentage stays as I mean, even as she stays the same as she puts five pounds of muscle on,

she'll look three percent here. And so and and be eating way more and healthier. Stronger and

faster metabolism than gives her that flexibility then to have that glass of wine here and there

and be okay. Our next color is Angela from Indiana. Hi, Angela. Hello. Hi. Thanks for having me.

You got it. How can we help you? Okay. I'm just going to read my email like most people do.

Okay. Since I'm a 47-year-old perimenopausal mother of three teenagers, I'm a recovering long

distance runner. OTF go or go where orange, orange theory fitness and beach body workout person.

I work a full-time job and two part-time jobs. I have been working out consistently for the last

18 months, but really haven't noticed any changes in my body. I'm reaching my protein goals and

sleeping seven to eight hours per night. I've done muscle mommy twice in anabolic once in addition

to other nine non mine pump workouts. I love your help to actually see changes in my body.

I also have a recurrent tennis elbow in my right arm. This has caused me to avoid workouts for up

to six weeks in the past and then I get an injection and it gets better and just any any

recommendations on how to prevent just in the future. Okay, cool. So when you're doing our programs,

are you doing anything else on top of it like cardio, like any other exercise?

So for the most part, no, just walking, try to get eight to ten thousand steps in a day.

On the days I do a workout, it's probably closer to like seven eight thousand steps,

but on the days that I don't have a workout, then I make a literally walk my workout for the day.

Good. And then when you say for the most part, what do you mean?

I did try running again a little while back, but I've stopped it since because I was just tired

of not seeing changes, but I've stopped that probably about six weeks ago. Okay, so you're just

you're just burning the candle of both ends with full time, two part time. You got three teenagers.

You also have a history of just getting after it. It seems like that's your your M.O.

One of our one of our maps, 15 programs would work better for you. You would get better,

you would get much better results with something like that. I was feeling you were going to say that.

Yeah, do you work out in a gym or do you work out at home? Right now I work out at home.

Good. Good. I'm going to send you you like muscle mommy type style. I can send you

math, 15 muscle mommy. Yeah, that'd be great. I'll send that to you. Do that, maintain the walking,

keep hitting the protein, getting good sleep. And I think you're going to start seeing some good

some good progress. And as far as the the parymentopausal thing, are you doing anything on the hormone

side? Are you got somebody checking and watching that? Is that all good? Yes, so I start well,

I haven't got a call. I just we started looking into it last year. I've actually been on hormone

replacement since about September. Okay, it's perfect. Yes, okay, cool. Perfect. Yeah, you're just

you're just doing so much that you need the dose of strength training to be less.

Okay, I do plan on cutting back my jobs at some point in time, but I have twins in flight

school. And so my husband and I are trying to pick off their flight school loans for them so

they don't have a lot of days. Wow, wow, very cool. No, no, the 15 program. So after

Math 15 muscle mommy, if you feel good on it, which I think you will, then go to the next

Math 15 program, Math 15 symmetry or power lift or traditional Math 15, I think that protocol

is going to give you great results. Are you are you tracking calories or anything right now?

Do you have any idea where you're at right now? No, at the beginning of the year, maybe a couple

of times a year, I do. I'm normally between like 19 and 2100. Yeah, just really low for a lot of

activity. You're doing it so that you're not too bad. You're probably going to want to bump

another hundred to 200 calories and then drop to that 15 and I bet your body responds better to

that. So for as much active, you're getting eight to 10,000 steps every day and you were training

that much and the jobs and every that's a lot. And so you are probably just your body's stalled.

Here's the thing that when you come out of this, be patient because it takes a little bit time

for the body kind of reset, get healthy again, and then it'll respond. So when it looks like a lot

of times, you'll start to feel better right away as far as like rest and just the energy and like

mood, all those things will start to improve. And then what will start to happen slowly is strength.

You'll sort of see strength good in the gym. And then what comes after that is the body change

in the results. So just be patient. It takes a minute for the body to kind of reorganize and say,

oh, I'm being fed again. Oh, this feels good. Oh, here, let me reward you. You're getting stronger

in the gym. And then comes the aesthetic result. So just be just this is the path. This is what

you need to do. Trust the process. And then and but it just know that just know that it takes a

minute to for it all to get going. Don't abandon it and go, oh, my God, this isn't enough. I

need to start doing more stuff because then you'll just go right back to where you were.

Yeah, that's kind of why I reached out because like I said, I've been trying to do it for 18

months. Obviously getting older. My husband's actually very fit. He goes to the gym frequently.

My all my kids are sons. They all like run. They go to the gym. They do all kinds of stuff. And so,

you know, I just I kind of want to want to look like I work out. I don't have to obviously be like

a beach body competitor. I've had twins. My stomach is a disaster. I understand all that. I just

want to want people to look at me and look like I take care of myself. Yeah. Have you have you

considered joining our muscle mommy group? We have a group of women that's that and a lot. I'd say

good half of them are menopausal, perimenopausal going through very, very similar stuff. And it's

incredible community and weekly coaching and help along the way. Yeah, I've thought about it.

Obviously trying to pay off my kids student loan. I was we tried to be mindful of how much we

spend right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't I why don't I get you in there for a month for free?

You could you could you could you could bounce after that, but just get some advice.

Oh, that would be great. Yeah. All right. We'll send that to you.

Okay. Yeah. And you're doing good. Yep. You're doing good, huh? And beat me. Yeah. Beat me.

Be kind to yourself. You got a lot of stuff. Well, I appreciate you all. I listen to you all

on my walks typically. Yeah. You're doing good. And I really do think that's just too much.

So I think within a week or two, you should start to see strength gains. And that's when you know

you're moving the right direction. Yeah. I want to be I want to be strong as I age. Good.

Good. Good. You will. You will. All right. So we're going to send you a map 15 muscle

mommy. And then we're going to get you in the muscle mommy group for 30 days for free. So you

get some advice. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. You got it. All right. I do.

I think people need to realize just like how much all the life stuff affects your body's ability

to adapt to exercise. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. You got to factor that in, but it's hard

because it just seems like that's your normal, right? But that's stress. That's right. Well,

and also in the context of age, how low your calories are, that stuff. It just hormones, kids,

cycles. Yeah. It's it's redlining your engine with no oil in it or gas. It's like it's

eventually going to shut down on you. And then that's frustrating because you're still stepping

on the gas, hoping to go somewhere and you're not going anywhere. And then also

then being patient when you start to do the right thing because the right thing it takes a

minute for that body to reset and get back to where it needs to be to start to show the results.

And that what happens is most people hear that advice and it makes sense logically for them.

But then they don't see the change quick enough and then they bail on it and go back to old habits.

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. My input media. Thank you for listening

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