374. Is It Love or Limerence? How to Tell the Difference

0:00Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. Picture this. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. All you need a new girl too? Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or The Wayfair app. Wayfair every style, every home. Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast, rethinking with Adam Grant. Let me share with you why smart finance leaders turn to Bill. They know that clarity isn't just helpful, it's strategic. As the intelligent finance platform, Bill uses AI to automate the busy work for nearly half a million businesses, so they can focus on intentional growth. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com slash proven.

1:00Turns in condition applies to offer page for details. Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press one for comfort, two for style, three for donation. You chose style. Bombas are styles for whatever you enjoy. You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas Comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com and use code audio. You know that feeling. You're going about your day and I don't know where that person is in your head again. You replay a conversation from three weeks ago. You check your phone, even though you know you didn't hear a buzz. You catch yourself spinning out a whole imaginary future. And then when they actually do text, the rush is so intense, it's almost physical. But when they go quiet or when you can't tell how they feel about you,

2:01the whole thing somehow gets even more intense. Most people call that falling in love. But what if it's not? Today, we're talking about limmerance. What it actually is, how it's different from love. How to know if you're in it and what to do if you are. Whether you're single, single partnered or in a relationship and suddenly consumed by someone who isn't your partner, this episode will give you the language and the clarity you've been missing. So stay tuned. Welcome to the Relationships Made Easy Podcast where I give you the exact steps to create connection, joy and ease and all your relationships. Whether it's with your partner, your family, your friends, or most importantly, yourself. I'm Dr. Abby Metcalf, psychologist, best-selling author, TEDx speaker, and the bossy Jewish mom you didn't know you needed. Each week you'll get no nonsense, research back strategies, serve with humor and love,

3:01so you can stop second-guessing yourself and start having the relationships you deserve. You'll always leave knowing exactly what to say and do to shift your relationships for the better. So let's get to it. Welcome back to the podcast, you know who I am. And this topic got brought up quite a few times in my sub-sac community, and I've gotten the question on, you know, TikTok and other places. So, what is Limerence? Limerence, it's not a new concept. I, you know, things start to trend and all of a sudden we see them everywhere. Limerence isn't new. It's just, I think it's been an underused concept. So there was a psychologist named Dorothy Tenov, who coined the term after spending a decade, at least 10 years, interviewing hundreds and hundreds of people about their experiences of romantic attraction.

4:04And she published her findings in, there was a 1979, a book called Love and Limerence. And what she found was that a significant number of people described something far more consuming, far more destabilizing and far more painful, than what most people mean when they say they're in love. And she named that state Limerence. And Limerence, the way that she defined it, Tenov just defined it, is an in-voluntary, obsessive, mental state focused on another person, what she called the Limerent object or the LO. Okay, so that's that person that you're so focused on. And here's the thing that distinguishes it from love. It's not driven by who the other person actually is. It's driven by the intoxicating uncertainty of whether they want you back. That's the key. Limerence runs on uncertainty.

5:06The moment you know for sure that someone fully reciprocates or definitely doesn't, Limerence pretty much dissolves more or less. And that's, it's not a character flaw or something. It's not a sign that something is wrong with you, but understanding it changes really everything about how you interpret what you're feeling. So what is Limerence actually feel like? She, Tenov, identified a consistent set of hallmarks across really hundreds of interviews. So, and then there was research later by Wilmot and Bentley, and they, which confirmed all of Tenov's hypotheses and all that, and they expanded on them. And documenting how Limerence plays out across different peoples lived experiences. So, and here's what they found. And for the new people, whenever I say the research says, or I talk about a past episode or the amazing free download

6:07for today, which is a little quiz to know if you're being Limerent or not, anything you can find below the video on YouTube or on my website, abymetcaf.com, go to this episode. So I always back up whenever I say research says, I back it up with the actual studies, and you can find those all. If you want to go down the rabbit holes that I go down all the time, I love looking at research, which people, if you've been with me a while, you know, I love the research. I just, it's just fascinates me. I love reading all about it. Anyway, so what, here's what they found. Intrusive, involuntary thinking about the person, not just thinking about them, but generally being unable to stop. This again, Wilmot and Bentley found that participants described the thoughts as almost continuous. They had one person writing that it feels as if it's 100% of your emotions are riveted to the, the L.O., the Limerent object at all times.

7:08So it's pretty, it's pretty major. Another thing they found is intense longing for reciprocation. More than wanting them to like you, you need to know how they feel about you. The uncertainty is unbearable, it's addictive, it's not good. The third thing they found is idealization, which means that you notice everything wonderful about them and minimize or explain away anything that isn't, they become in your mind essentially perfect. That's one of the real signs of Limerence that I see a lot because I'm seeing red flags and the other person is not. And so anyway, another thing they found is emotional highs and lows based entirely, entirely on the other person's behavior. You know, you get a warm text from them and you are soaring and a delayed reply or a cooler than usual interaction, send you off the deep end, ruined your whole day. Another symptom or physical symptoms,

8:10when you're around them or even just thinking about them, as you might find a racing heart, some shakiness, difficulty concentrating, what if tenors experiments, people had like reported things like flush skin, you know, getting a flush, sweaty palms, that kind of thing, kind of crazy, right? Another symptom is fantasy, mentally rehearsing conversations, imagining future scenarios, playing out what it'd be like if they finally chose you, that kind of thing. Another symptom which I've kind of referred to, but I'll say it again, is acute sensitivity to signs that they're reciprocating, to what, so you're over analyzing everything they say or do for evidence that they feel the same way, or that they don't feel the same way. And Wilmot Bentley also found consistent links between lemurance and anxiety and depression

9:14and what they described in their research is like free floating emotional distress that becomes temporarily fixated on the L.O. on the Limeron object, on the other person. So in a lot of ways, lemurance is anxiety wearing a romantic outfit or costume really. Yeah. And in 2024, there was like a major kind of a scoping review published in, of all things, the journal of police and what's that called? It's like the journal of police and criminal psychology. I'll get it right on the website or below the video, but it was a huge study and they found that lemurance shares cognitive features with obsessive, compulsive disorder, including intrusive, repetitive thinking,

10:14compulsive behaviors, like all kinds of stuff. So it now doesn't mean you have OCD. It means what I'm saying is that the brain and what that research shows is that the brain mechanisms that drive obsessive states and the ones that drive lemurance have it way too much in common, that's really it. Okay, so is lemurance the same as love? No, no, it's not. And this is the distinction that matters most. Lemurance is about the ache for reciprocation and love is about the other person. Gonna say it again, lemurance is just all about they've got to reciprocate, I have to see and know that they feel the same way I do. Love, that's that anxiety is all, it's really about the other person. It's a very different feeling. When you love someone, you care about their actual, their well-being, their growth, their happiness, even when it doesn't directly affect you. You can see them clearly, including their flaws, their ugly parts, their warts,

11:16and you love them any way. There's comfort, there's steadiness, there's genuine warmth and how you relate. Lemurance at its core is really self-focused. You're focused on yourself, not a selfish way, but in a neurochemical way. The lemurant experience is primarily about your own internal state. Do they want me? Will they choose me? Did I say something wrong? What did that silence mean? The other person becomes really less of a real human and more of a symbol for whether you're wanted, whether you're worthy, safe, all that stuff. And I will tell you, when Tenof got blessed, Dorothy Tenof, what a badass. When she wrote about this, she was really direct. She was very clear. She says, in lemurance, the lemurant objects, actual qualities matter far less than the interpretation

12:20of the signals that you're getting. So you're not falling for who they are. You're falling for your own brain's narrative about what their behavior means. Are you picking up when I'm laying down? Are you picking up with Dr. Abby's laying down? So if you want to do a quick gut check, I would say you would think about the other person you're so consumed by. And when you imagine your future with them, what are you actually imagining? Are you imagining a real relationship with conflict and compromise and ordinary Tuesdays? Or are you mainly imagining the moment they finally choose you? You know, it's like you're imagining that you're thinking obsessively about the resolution of the longing itself, like when they declare their love. If it's mostly that, that's a lemurance flag. I need to tell you, okay. So why does lemurance, no, how do I wanna say this?

13:21So why does uncertainty fuel lemurance so powerfully? That's what I'm gonna call this section. Why does uncertainty fuel lemurance so powerfully? And this is where the neural science gets, I think of course fascinating, because you know I love this crap. So Helen Fisher, you know my girl crush, Helen Fisher, she's a biological anthropologist. If you haven't watched her TED Talks yet or talk or whatever, she's amazing. Anyway, I'm love and longing and knowing, she's incredible. So Helen Fisher and Arthur Aaron, they did a lot of MRI, it's actually functional MRIs, FMRIs, a lot of research, and they found that intense romantic attraction activates the brain's dopagemetic, topenergic reward pathways. And specifically the VTA, which is the ventral tegmental area, and what's called the Codate Nucleus,

14:24which are the same regions associated with motivation, craving, goal-directed behavior. So romantic attraction, it's not just an emotion, it's a drive state. And like all drive states, it's powerfully, powerfully shaped by intermittent reward, meaning a reward that you get sometimes, not all the time, like a slot machine. Your brain's dopamine system is wired to respond most intensely, not to guarantee rewards, okay? But to unpredictable ones, this research goes way back. So when you don't know, if pulling the lever on the slot machine will pay out, dopamine actually fires more intensely than it would, if you got to reward every single time, I know that sounds crazy, but it's the truth. That's the neurochemical engine, again, of the slot machine, and it's the same engine running lemurance. When someone's interest in you is warm, sometimes,

15:26and cooler at other times, well, you know, you can't quite read them when there are signals, but no certainty. Your brain treats that ambiguity as a puzzle that needs to be solved, and dopamine floods in every time you think you found a little clue. That's why you're searching everywhere, and you're talking to me obsessively, like Abby, they said this, and then she said this, and then she said this, and then they did this, and then yesterday I said this, but then they said this. Yeah. Now, there's also a serotonin piece here. Oh, this one, I always call it a Maserati, and it's not Marziti. Donatella Marziti, how fabulous is that name? Come on. Donatella Marziti, let's have a moment for that. And her colleagues at the University of Pisa, of course, you figured it would be somewhere in Italy, right? Found that people who had recently fallen in love had serotonin transporter levels that were significantly lower than controls,

16:29and statistically indistinguishable from people with OCD. Again, we're getting back to that. Because low serotonin is associated with intrusive, ruminative thinking. So the obsessive quality of limerance isn't just like all in your head in a dismissive sense. There's a measurable neurochemical shift happening. I'm telling you all this, so you truly understand and don't feel so, don't beat yourself up quite so much when you're dealing with this because it's so hard. And this is why limerance often intensifies when a relationship becomes more available, right? You'd think certainty would be satisfying, right? So the relationship is here more, it's more available, but it's not, but for a nervous system hooked on the chase, clarity can feel deflating. I know, it's also why some people find themselves

17:29really intensely kind of limerant for someone unavailable or uninterested, and they feel relatively little for someone warm, attentive, and generally interested in them, just I know. I know, sit with that for one minute, is that crazy? The unavailability of the person itself is doing a lot of the work. And again, when you read her stuff, she's really clear that uncertainty isn't just a feature of limerance, it's a requirement of it. Without that kind of open question of reciprocation, like do they or don't they? Limerance either resolves into real love or fades entirely, you get one or the other. So can you be limerant inside a committed relationship? Yes, and this is where things get, I think things get complicated. Limerance for your own partner is possible and early in relationships, I would say it's kind of common. The uncertainty of early dating, right, creates

18:30perfect limerance conditions, it's like the perfect storm. And as the relationship becomes more committed and more stable, limerance will typically fade and is replaced in healthy relationships by something quieter, more sustaining, deep attachment, genuine love. But some people experience the limerance fading and they panic and they mistake the loss of the obsessive-high for falling out of love, right? So they may begin to feel limerant towards someone outside the relationship instead because that person offers the novelty and uncertainty that their nervous system is craving. So it doesn't automatically mean their committed relationship is wrong. It often means that their nervous system doesn't know yet how to experience safety as love. Are you seeing yourself here? Are you listening to me? I know. And I want to remind you, I do a full blog for every episode.

19:32So if this is all really hitting, you know, go back and read the blog later. Like take it in differently. It's not a transcript. It's an actual blog that I write up. Anyway, so if you're in a committed relationship and consumed by limerant feelings for someone else, it's worth asking yourself really honestly, you know, am I confused because I found a better match? Are my addicted to the neural chemical hit that comes from uncertainty? And again, this is where self-sabotage often comes in. You might be sabotaging the relationship, trying to create something, you know, making them jealous or trying to make them jealous, you know, to prove their love or show their love. It's we do it. We get really caught up. And these are really different problems with different solutions. I do want to say, and I'll get to that, of course. So why are some people more vulnerable to limerants than others? Because some people are more vulnerable than others. And the research, I would say pretty consistently,

20:32points to a few factors that plan. Anxious attachment is the strongest predictor. I've talked about attachment a lot in the podcast. I just did a three episode arc. I will, but you can, I've done other ones too, just kind of explaining the different attachment styles. I'll link to those, but Anxious attachment is the strongest predictor. If you grew up in an environment where love and attention were inconsistent, your nervous system learned to be hyper vigilant for signs of acceptance or rejection, for either. The ambiguity of early stage attraction, that sort of back and forth, or the pull of unavailable partners replicates that dynamic, that familiar dynamic you know. So the hunger for reciprocation isn't just romantic longing. I want you to think of it. It's like an old, unmet need trying to finally get filled.

21:34I know. So other researchers, Wakin and Vo, they built on Tenov's original model. And some of the stuff they found in their research was that limerants shares, again, functional, they also found that limerants shares functional similarities with obsessive compulsive disorder, but they also found it and substance use disorder, meaning like cocaine addiction. So the forces like longing for reciprocation, driving forces, obsessive thinking, extreme mood fluctuations come from that, all that. I mean, it's like boom, boom, boom. So when separation from your L.O., the limerant object occurs, people often experience withdrawal like symptoms. That's what's crazy. Chester stomach pain, sleep disruption, irritability,

22:36depression, high anxiety, I know. It's crazy, right? I mean, really. And loneliness is another factor. When people have unmet, I do want to say that. I'm sorry, I finished that thought, but loneliness is another factor. Sorry, things pop in my head and I start talking. Before we had AT&T business wireless coverage, our delivery GPS wasn't the most reliable. Once our driver had to do a 14 point turn to get back on route, a 14 point turn, an influence or even live stream the whole thing. Not good for business. Now with AT&T business wireless, routes are updating on the fly and deliveries are on time. And the influence of day, get us 53 new followers though. AT&T business wireless, connecting changes everything. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone.

23:36Picture this. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new girl too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair every style, every home. So if you have some sort of unmet social needs or emotional needs, even a small sign of interest from another person really can become sort of dramatically amplified into something that feels like profound connection when it's not. So do you want to say that? Okay. So those two are the biggies. Anxious attachment style and if you're lonely, you know. All right, so how do you know if what you're feeling is lemurance or real love? So here are the questions worth sitting with. Okay, worth engaging with.

24:38Do you love them for who they actually are? Including quality that are ordinary, annoying or imperfect? Or do you mostly love the idealized version of them in your own mind? You should also be able to stay. I talk about trauma bonding, which can also get kind of caught up in here. And I can always tell when someone is sort of trauma bonding because they can't, when I say to them, what do you love about this person? What is it? They can't give me anything really concrete. They give me things like, oh, there's just something about them and oh, we talk all night. And oh, they're so charismatic and oh, there's just this thing we have. It's so special. If you ask me right now, what do you love about Gary? I can give you easily, easily. He's really thoughtful. He puts my needs first often. He's generous, he's kind, he's warm. He's really funny. We really laugh well together. He has my back and all things, right? I could go on and on and on easily with a list of very identifiable behaviors, characteristics.

25:41Not there's just something about him, okay? Yeah. Another thing I think you can ask yourself is does your emotional state depend heavily on their responsiveness or can you stay grounded even when there's silence or distance? That's another thing to look at. When you imagine a future with them, is it a real relationship you're picturing or mainly the feeling of finally being chosen again? Are you just picturing that all the time fantasizing about that time they tell you you're the one for me. I love you so much. How long have you actually known them and how deeply do you know them? Limorance doesn't require knowing someone well. We love does. So another thing you can ask, if you knew they were completely unavailable with the intensity dropped significantly, that's a strong signal that the uncertainty was doing most of the work just so you know, okay? Do you feel generally seen and known by them are mostly just intensely drawn to them?

26:44Is another thing. Now none of these are, I'm not trying to get you. Then none of these are gotcha. They're just, they're tools, you know, I want you to have some on a self-reflection, which is the only thing that actually helps here is on a self-reflection. So today's free download is a clarity checklist. I'm calling it MI and Limorance or Live. It, you know, it's gonna walk you through the key markers of each state. So you can see more clearly what's actually driving your feelings. Again, you know, you'll find it below the video on my website under this episode abbymycaf.com. Okay, and I have an amazing therapy to go bundle for today, which I'll talk about at the very end. The download is free, but if you want, you can also buy something. I call them therapy to go bundles. I do them for every episode and they just help you get much, if this is a real issue for you and if this has been a pattern for you, you might want to get the bundle. You might need to do kind of some deeper work here than just like a quick quiz, you know what I mean? So, but as always, you don't have to buy anything because I'm gonna tell you some things to do here.

27:46So what do you do if you're in Limorance? You know, if you're single and Limorant for someone, I always say slow down the fantasy. Limorance lives in your head, not in the actual relationship you have with this person. So the more you can engage with who they actually are, so they're real quirks, they're limitations, they're ordinary humanity. The harder it is for that sort of idealized projection to survive, so get real. And it doesn't mean you won't still find them wonderful, right? But it brings you back to reality. You know, I would say also, consider what the Limorance is pointing to, are you lonely? You know, in a transitional moment in your life, are you craving the feeling of being chosen? The LO, the Limorance object, is often, that person is often like a screen. Like you're putting a lot of your unmet needs,

28:46you're projecting a lot of your unmet needs on the screen. So getting curious about the need underneath is usually more useful than focusing only on, you know, the person. Okay, now if you're in a committed relationship and limerate for someone else, obviously don't act on it, please, that's not the same as pretending the feeling doesn't exist, though, okay, but don't act on it. It does exist and suppressing it without examining it isn't gonna help you, so I'm gonna say that too. And don't feel guilty and all full of crap, you know, like that's not helping. But acting on Limorance, while you're in a committed relationship, whether through an affair, by leaving, is it's really almost always a decision made from a neurochemical state rather than genuine clarity. Limorance fades, decisions have consequences. So try to reduce contact with the, that person, the limorant object where you can, because limorance needs fuel and every interaction,

29:47every interaction, every, you know, ambiguous moment, every unanswered question, it really feeds it. So limiting contact doesn't, it doesn't feel a good short term, but it's one of the few things that actually works from the research. Wilma and Bentley, who I talked about before, they compared it to the way someone in recovery avoids their substance, right? You know, like, you know, you don't go into bars if you're trying not to drink, right? Total contact avoidance is really the gold standard, even when it's not fully possible, just do your best. And then, it also look honestly at your relationship, sometimes limorance for someone else is your nervous systems way of flagging something in your primary relationship that needs attention. Not necessarily that it's broken, but that there's emotional distance, there's a loss of connection, something unexplored. The limorance may be, you know, a distraction from something that deserves your direct attention.

30:48So I want you to think of it that way. If you're a limorant for someone who's unavailable, I also want to talk about, and this one is painful and I don't want to minimize that, but being deeply consumed by feelings for someone who can't or won't reciprocate, I think is its own kind of grief, you know? And the work here is partly about tolerating that grief directly rather than continuing to feed the fantasy as a way of avoiding it, okay? It also helps to get honest about what unavailability offers you for some people, limorance for an unavailable person, it keeps them emotionally occupied in a way that feels safer than real vulnerability with someone who could actually hurt you. So if the people you're most drawn to are consistently out of reach, that pattern is really worth exploring, all right? So what helps limorance resolve, you know? Ten of identified three main ways limorance ends, okay?

31:49So the first is the LO, the limorant object makes their disinterest unambiguous and final, right? They remove the uncertainty that sustains the whole thing, okay, so that can happen. The second thing that can happen is the relationship becomes mutual, it becomes committed, comes stable, and limorance gradually shifts into something hopefully like real love. And then third is that the limorance transfers to a new person, I've worked with people where this is the case, which doesn't resolve the underlying pattern obviously, it just restarts it, okay? So again, what doesn't help is feeding the fantasy, maintaining ambiguous contact, waiting passively for the feeling to pass, not gonna help. Okay, what does help is reducing uncertainty in either direction, I would say the biggie is building a rich life, you know, building a life, I guess rich enough that one person doesn't occupy all your emotional space, you know, addressing the attachment wounds underneath, and if the pattern keeps repeating,

32:50I would say, you know, working with a therapist who understands limorance would be really, really good. So let me wrap up and then I'll talk about the therapy to go bundle, limorance is real, it's not a moral failing, nothing feel guilty about, it's not proof, it's also not proof you've found the love of your life, it's not something to be ashamed of, it's a neurochemical and psychological state that millions upon millions of people experience and that almost nobody has a good name for, but you know, now you do, right? I think having a name for it gives you a choice, you can keep riding the wave of intrusive thoughts and emotional highs and lows, or you can start asking the questions that actually lead somewhere, you know, what do I really need? Is this feeling serving me? What would it mean to want something I could actually have? Okay, so again, today's free download is MI in limorance or love? Again, it's kind of a, it's a short, direct, it's a clarity checklist, okay?

33:52So, and again, if you're realizing this is a pattern for you, if you keep falling into the same consuming destabilizing state and you want real tools for working through it, that's the therapy to go bundle for this episode. So again, the download is free that I mentioned, but you know, the therapy to go bundle is $10. So I just, I do want, I do want to say that. Okay, so what's in the bundle? I mean, I'm trying to remember right now, sorry. Okay, so I've got, and I've got a bunch of things in the bundle. So there's journaling prompts to uncover what's underneath the longing. There's a step-by-step worksheet for working through a limorant thought spiral. There's another, is this limorance or love, but it's more than the free download. It's a more in-depth worksheet for getting honest about what you're actually experiencing. There's also a worksheet, I'm calling it,

34:55what's this really about. It's basically, it's a worksheet for helping you identify the unmet need underneath the limorance. There's also a breaking the limorant cycle. It's a personal action plan for really starving the loop and rebuilding your focus, okay? So all of that plus the free download, by the way. So comes in the therapy to go bundle, all of it. So for $10, which is quite the deal when you think about how much therapy is. And if you work with a therapist, it's wonderful also to download the bundle and do it with your therapist. If again, this is an ongoing issue and you haven't quite gotten to what, you know, what's the problem here? This is a great way to do it, okay? That's it for today. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm so happy to spend this time. I really appreciate when you write in with questions that I can answer. Sometimes I answer them on my, on TikTok or one of the social media accounts. Other times I'll try to answer them here just so you know, I never ever can give like advice over the internet

35:55that's not gonna happen like direct advice to you. It's highly unethical. No one should do that. But I can certainly give you some things to think about and some thoughts that I have about the situation in one of those forums. Also remember if you email me abbyadabbymechef.com with a topic or suggestion, just a couple sentences please. I say with love, there's millions of you who download this podcast. I clearly, you know, if I get an email that's a page long, I can't even read it. I don't have time, I'm sorry. So I'm not sorry, it just is. That's a boundary, you know? So take that into account. But I certainly wanna listen to you, wanna hear from you and that's it. I hope this was really helpful and we will talk real soon. Thank you for spending time with me today. If you're loving what you're learning here, come join my one love collective. It's my private community, where we take these conversations even deeper. You'll get a ton of bonus content, live Q&As with me, guided visualizations,

36:57journaling prompts, scripts, and an incredible community of like-minded people ready to support you as you create more ease and joy in all your relationships. It's all waiting for you at abbyadabbymechef.com or right on sub-stack. I'll see you next week. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. Picture this. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. All you need a new girl too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair every style, every home. Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast, rethinking with Adam Grant. If you heard of Bill, it's the intelligent finance platform

37:57that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move, and maximize money, proven by over a trillion dollars and secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit Bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as the thank you. That's Bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply to offer page for details. Oh, you do it all. So why not get all the electrolytes? Hydrate better than water with new Gatorade lower sugar. Now with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors, and 75% less sugar than regular Gatorade. New to the fridge, all the Gatorade electrolytes you love. Gatorade lower sugar. Is it in you? Now available nationwide.