#423: Detox Pathways, Sensitive Systems, and the Truth About Chelation Therapy With ​​Dr. Nafysa Parpia

Welcome to Longevity. I'm your host, Natalie Nidom. I'm a nutritionist, a human potential

and epigenetic coach, and I created this podcast to bring you the latest ways to take control

of your health and longevity. We cover it all from new technology and ancestral health

practices, personalized interventions, and a very special interest of mine, peptides and

bio-regulators. Enjoy the show. Welcome back to the show. I'm Natalie Nidom, your host.

Now, if you've ever wondered why some people just don't ever seem to get better. It doesn't

matter how clean they eat, how many supplements they take, or how many doctors they see, they just

can't get it to move. Now, this episode might just help you to connect some of the major dots.

I'm joined today by Dr. Nephiza Parpia, board-certified naturopathic doctor and director of

naturopathic medicine at Gordon Medical. Here she specializes in complex chronic illness,

everything from lime and mold to long COVID, MCAS, autoimmune conditions. These are the baddest

of the bads. These are the ones that people just can't seem to get their heads around and most

doctors just can't seem to move the needle on. We talk about the hidden role of environmental

toxins. Why menopause can unmask a lifetime of toxic burden and how therapies like peptides and

bio-regulators are changing what recovery looks like for highly sensitive patients. Now, if this

episode resonates for you, you'll be able to learn more about Gordon Medical by going to GordonMedical.com.

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to work. Welcome to the show, Nephiza Parpa. I am so happy to be speaking with you today.

I am so happy to be here. I'm just very excited about this conversation. We've met now a number of

times under different circumstances. And you know, one of the many things that I love about you is the

it's the humanity that you bring to the approach that is deeply connected and deeply rooted in

science. So it's not something that we always see in science. And I'm really excited for this

conversation for the audience because I think they're going to get a very unique message in a

very beautiful fashion. So thank you again. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. So in getting started,

you know, you have an expertise in environmental medicine. So what really got you there? Like

you know, also like you're in the in this whole new on space, like the heavy metal space, mold,

chronic complex illness, and particularly in women. And a lot of what I'm seeing is there's a lot

of noise. There's people who dismiss these things right out of hand. Then we've got people

who seem to hyper focus on these things. And is it possible that there's a bit of a hyper focus

in some areas? But let's talk about you first and what really got you into this space and

focusing particularly on women? Yeah. You know, I I I knew a long time ago that there's a healer in me.

I knew that I wanted to work with people, but not just as a doctor working on only their

yeast infection or only their toenial fungus. I wanted to go deeper with people and and I

understood that when you brought up humanity, that's a part I'm talking about that piece that

where the where the spirit meets the bones where the biopsy meets what's happening internally

in the person. And so I knew that it was in that that space of complex chronic illness for sure.

As far as working with women, well, I think it's because I'm one and I understand what what women

go through in this world, what they have gone and what I think they continue to go through in

their bodies, but also just just by function of being alive as a woman on this planet, things we

experience. And in how I see a lot of what happens in women's lives, like their traumas, how that

intermingles with sickness. Talk a little bit about that later, but that's really what drove me to

enter my practice in that zone specifically. You went a little deeper down in particular,

funnel here of the environmental medicine, like what what pulled you into that space? And again,

you know, it's interesting because you're bringing a particularly female perspective to that. And

we both know that medical research on women has been sorely lacking. We have decades of lost time

to make up for. But what took you down the environmental medicine route? You know, I'd see I'd see

these patients with complex chronic illness. And illnesses that didn't exist 20 years ago, illnesses

that I was in medical school, starting in 2005, naturopathic medical school, they didn't even

teach us about because they were kind of rare illnesses like long COVID. That's a new one,

but I'd say illnesses like Lyme and Co-infections, more autoimmune conditions.

Farber Myalgia, MECFS, these were more rare conditions. And then over the past 20 years,

they've become more and more common. Yeah. And you know, wonder, well, why is this going on?

Well, we have more environmental toxins. Speaking of long COVID, you know, we actually,

you know, had a conversation about long COVID in the past where you're some, but the spike protein

can be can act as a toxin to some people and create the inflammatory cytokine cascade that then

eggs on other illnesses. And so it's this toxin load that is not allowing us to walk hand in hand

with chronic infections or not long as to walk hand in hand with mold or Lyme disease. And so

I just knew that if I just start to try to address patients who have

complex chronic illness, and I know they've got multiple chronic infection, if I just try to kill

the bugs, it's not going to get me anywhere. They still have hymercury, hyglyphusate, microplastics,

forever chemicals, all of this. Well, yeah. So when, when did you first notice that connection

between hormonal transitions like menopause and toxic burden, you know, like was there a moment

or a patient's story that really kind of went, uh-oh, there's something here. No, what? I'll say it was,

it was when I was learning with Dr. Paul Anderson and Dr. Lynn Patrick, and I was taking a class

a long time ago in in chelation therapy with Dr. Paul Anderson. And he was talking about

lead, about women, when women in menopause, or we tend to lose bone, even if we have a diagnosis

of osteoporosis, or we don't have that diagnosis, we still tend to lose bone. And lead

gets stored in our bones, our bones are repositories for lead. We all get exposed to it,

even though it was banned a long time ago, it doesn't, it just gets recycled, doesn't buy a degrade.

So it goes into our bloodstream, the half-life there is 70 days, and then 90% of the lead blood

gets stored in the bones. Then we start to lose bone. And long we hold, we can become our own,

our own toxicity center, a source of toxins. Yeah. Yeah. The lead starts to leap into the blood.

So when he told me this, I thought, okay, now I need to start testing this in my patients. That

was a long, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago, something like that. And since then, I've been testing it.

And I see it every day, and my practice, high lead in women's blood. I'm not talking about a

provoked test, just straight up. What's in your blood? It's high. And I thought I saw something

recently. The problem is it was on Instagram, and I didn't have time to dig into it. So I'm,

you know, I'm pretty cautious with the stuff I see on Instagram. I think that, you know, people,

you can get really good information from there, but definitely you need to do your due diligence.

But there was a post that talked about, and I think it was lead in women's lipstick.

Dislada, is that something that you've come across? Like do you think there's, because I,

like, especially in those very deep red pigments? See, lead was banned in the 1990s in America.

It was started to phase out in the late 1970s, but in the dark pigments, pigments, if they were made

in another country, sure. There are, like, another country where it's not as stringent regulated.

Yeah. So probably that's not it. I mean, definitely lead. I mean, you get lead from the air, right?

If you live in a major city, there's a component of lead in the air. Absolutely. And then where

else do we get it from? Well, houses built before in 1978, they had lead pipes. A lot of patients

I'm finding lead in their water. So now, imagine I see a patient, and it happens every day, their lead is

unacceptably high in their blood. So now I start to think, okay, do you have bone loss? Do you

have osteopenia? Do you have osteoporosis? Where are you getting this lead from? It's not only

men, a puzzle, women, by the way, men. I have a patient who's young. Yeah. Because they've got,

because these people have persistent inflammation. Some people that persistent inflammation meets

their bones. But anyhow, back to, what do I do when I see this? So I wonder, where is it coming from?

So I'm testing antelipeptic or sea-telipeptic to sea. If there's bone loss, send them for a

dexascan. I'm also testing the water and the bowl. There is lead in their water, and they have

bone loss. So now I'm like, wow, this is a double whammy. You've got bone loss and you've got lead

in your water. Wow. Okay. So it's not that uncommon. I literally recently just had a full body,

a full house filtration system put in. Good. Because you know, again, like so many of us live

in old cities. Yeah. And our pipes in our house may have been upgraded, but we have no control

over what's coming in from the street. And it could be our street. We could be 10 streets away.

You don't, you know, none of these cities have the resources to really upgrade the infrastructure

like they need to. In fact, I have a patient like that. So speaking of patient stories, so her lead

is sky high. She does not have bone loss. That's been corrected for already. So I'm like, where is

it coming from? Okay. It's not she just had a water filter put in. And I'm like, you know, what?

It's got to be from from the city. So now she's going to be testing her neighbors. We're going to

see that. Is that what it could be? Happy it. Yeah. That's that's so interesting. I want to do a

little sidebar on chelation therapy a little bit. Because people talk about it a lot. People

love it. People hate it. It can be very difficult on the body. Maybe help the audience to understand

like, when is it really necessary? And where can you just eat chlorella? You know, we're

spiraling or whatever. That's, that's an important question. So I think that, first of all,

there's so there's so many pieces to that question. First of all, as it comes to chelation therapy,

there is there is the right way to do it. And there is a wrong way to do it. We can talk about

this later on because it's a big piece of what I want to talk with you about today. The right way

to do it is to support the entire system to do depuration, not just to a cellular detox when we're

doing chelation therapy. We're using substances like EDTA and DMPS, sometimes glutathione to pull

toxins from outside of the cells, then the toxins recirculate. And when we're not chelating the

right way when we're not adding that in to an entire depuration process, we can then recirculate

the metals. That's why it's hard on the body. And I'll, I'll, I want to talk more about that later.

But to answer the question about when is it appropriate to chelate and when is it not? If somebody

has an acute exposure right here right now, it's not appropriate to chelate. We've got to get them

out of that exposure. And then I'm doing a, I'm testing in a pre-provocation test and a post

provocation test of pre-provocations. What's in your blood? What's in your urine? What that means?

What's coming at you right here right now? If it's at an unacceptable level, but it's not considered

acute, and I'll go into what does that mean? Well, it's acceptable. What's unacceptable with

respect to levels, but it just say someone's, someone's, someone's lead is high enough that I know

it's contributing to pathologies in their system, but not high enough that it's considered by a

gold standard to be acute. Then I'm, I'm running a post provocation test, a chelation test to see

if that, the those substances are actually addressing that. If, if those levels are much higher

post provocation, then I know that this is going to be a therapy that works to pull those

out, right? And if you want to compare the pre-provocation to the post provocation, if there is

around five to 10 percent increase, then chelation is warranted. Yeah. Then otherwise you might be

able to use other strategies, gender, not as, and then using, and then using the binders. I mean,

I remember when I went back to school, one of the things, one of the things that was impressed

upon us over and over and over again, and I'll never forget it is before you detox, make sure that

the doors of detoxification, the pathways are open because, and that's the lymph, the sweat,

the breath, the urine, the poop, all of those doors need to be flung open or you're just heading

for another problem. Yes, and how do I fling those open with herbs that are specific to all

those systems? With the bioregulators that are specific to all those systems. Oh my god, we're

going to talk about that. Okay, so before we go into next thing, a lot of people's years will have

perked up all of a sudden. So what are the bioregulators that you find are helpful in making sure

that these systems are up-regulated so that they're there to support what's needed when you're

doing that work? Yeah. So I want to support the organs of elimination, the liver, the kidneys.

Yeah, the gut. Yeah, you know, and lungs, and the lungs absolutely the lungs, the blood vessels,

right? Yeah, just said it at the same time, the blood vessel bioregulator, it's so important.

I'm like, that I have these bioreglos in my fingertips now. I didn't have them at my fingertips

a year ago, you know, two years ago. And so now I can incorporate that to make the detoxification

point even more efficacious. And after you've seen the needle move differently when you've

implemented them, this is the question everybody asks, right? Because especially with the bioregulators,

like with certain signaling peptides, like, I don't know, a thymus and alpha-1, or a GLP-1,

or whatever, people will use it and feel it. The bioregulator is a much more subtle process.

So as a clinician, are you seeing an acceleration of results or outcomes?

Yeah, 100% because my patient population are people who have complex chronic illness. These are

highly highly sensitive patients in every way. They're going to feel everything. Some of them have

to open up a bioregulator and put a toothpick in and take a toothpick dip. And that's enough, they feel

that. So kidding. Seriously, a lot of my patients, before I can even get them on the peptides,

I use the bioregulators. This is because my patients have mast cell activation syndrome,

and their immune system, their mast cells are not reactive only to foods and chemicals,

but to all kinds of things. And so because the bioregulators are even more simple and structured

than the peptides, highly sensitive. I'm so excited. I'm tripping over my own time.

My sensitive patients can actually tolerate the bioregulators. You see how excited I am?

There's nothing, nothing I've seen. People be able to tolerate these highly highly sensitive

people than the bioregulators first. But it's because they modulate, right? It's that their M.O.

It's macaulatory, not if they're not going to boost, they're not going to suppress,

they're going to support. So that's or restore function. Okay, all right, let's get back to our

regularly program program. We went off on a little sidebar there, but that's okay.

How have you seen metals accumulate in women, particularly, that become so much more problematic

during perian postmenopause? Like what's actually happening in the body with these metals?

Yeah, so they're losing the bone, right? And so there's the bones, obviously. But beyond the bones

even, like, is there like hormone receptors that are being affected as they're also losing estrogen?

Like, absolutely. So this, I call this a nasty trifecta that I see my patient population all

the time. So they don't have enough hormone or they have no hormone. Now they have bone loss.

Now they have too much lead in their system. And so first of all, I want to talk about like what

happens when we don't have enough hormone in my patients, not everybody, but some people have a

very, very hard time when they hit menopause. There is persistent oxidative stress, persistent

inflammation, persistent immune dysregulation. So there's that. And then women have a tendency to

disease processes. I didn't have the four Hashimoto's. RA, we see these diseases in women

postmenopause, not so much premenopause, right? So we see these diseases in research shows it has

to do with the lack of hormones in certain people. Well, women's and persistent oxidative stress

and persistent inflammation. And now she has lead. That's both of those things are going to

contribute to a disease process. Lead is going to put the body into a state of persistent oxidative

stress, persistent inflammation. And now people are more, their immune systems are more permissive

to infections. So just come on bugs that we see day after day Epstein, bar virus, for example,

mold. So now they're more apt to get infections in a way that they work before and only that,

but the immune system was able to keep in check dormant infections, Lyme and co-infections,

herpes family viruses, suddenly a woman hits menopause. And she's got high lead. And now she's got

chronic Lyme disease. And she doesn't even remember being bit by a tick. Yeah, yeah. So it's this

reactivation. It's reactivation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes total sense. Is it just lead?

Like, dude, are you seeing this with mercury? Like, there's a bunch of other heavy metals, right?

That a bunch of heavy metals. So actually, I think now is a good time to talk about

about the CDC's data. So yeah. So they created this data set. It's called the Enhengue's

data set. And it's a registry, it's a scoring system. And it's looking at

environmental toxins that it looks at what's most toxic, what's most frequently found in people,

and in super fun sites is called the Enhengue's registry. It's looking at thousands of

Americans and it's updated roughly every four years. So now, if a patient, if a person is at the

75th to 95th or even higher percentile, we know we want to consider that there's an acute

exposure going on. And most people are going to have problems. If it's at 50th percentile,

I'm considering an acute exposure. The data says you don't need to consider an acute exposure

50th percentile, but I'm considering it in pathologies related to low level chronic exposure

are happening. So that's the thing, right? Because in conventionally, this is the classic

conventional medicine approach. If you don't achieve a threshold, they don't consider it to be a

problem in functional medicine. You're looking at the Delta and saying at what threshold are we seeing

like subclinical or, you know, we're seeing the effect, but it's just not getting picked up.

Right. And in conventional medicine, in medical school, we're only taught a toxicology.

We're talking about toxicologies and acute, like large exposure that's going to put you in

the hospital. I'm not talking about toxicology, totally different subject. I'm talking about

as environmental medicine, which is, it's not taught. It's like the chronic low level exposure

and where and tear the toll it takes on the system, which is so interesting. And you know,

what you've talked about around bone degradation and this kind of presentation where you have women,

maybe even on hormone therapy, who can't get their levels up and whose bones are deteriorating,

which also means that all the cognitive problems are happening. The cardiovascular risks are

there, like all the other constellation of issues and, you know, bringing in this consideration of,

well, why? Why is your estrogen not going up? Like, why is this estrogen not showing up and doing

its work? Yeah, it's, you've got these bad players getting in the way and preventing that from

happening. Like, that's profound, right? Like, I might be one of those people. We might need to talk.

You know, in that data set, you're talking about other metals. Arsenic is number one.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Mercury's three can be in the seven. There's two hundred and I think like

two hundred and forty or two hundred and fifty toxins on this database. Metals are in the top seven

in the top three. Let's number two. So I see all of these metals high in my patients. I tell

my patients, it's never just one toxin. Of course, it's never just one bug. So I'm

seeing glyphosate. I'm seeing microplastics, pesticides, solvents, forever chemicals,

all kinds of toxins. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, we think about, okay, if someone's at 50th,

but maybe 30th percent out. Oh, I'm not supposed to consider that much of a problem. But what if

they're 30th and lead and 30th and mercury and 30th and arsenic and they're super high in

glyphosate. That's a toxic person. That person, that person's immune system, their endocrine system,

their nervous system is being affected by the toxic, that's being affected by the toxins.

Well, and to your point, you're seeing people with chronic complex illness. So these are people

that have not been able to be helped within a conventional system. So therefore, you have to kind

of look outside what would typically be associated with that and say, okay, is there an

accumulative load of small amounts of each of these things that's actually getting this person

to the place where and maybe overlaid with genetics that don't have, you know, great pathways

for clearing stuff. Because I do believe, like on a person, this is why not everybody has these

issues. In some cases, people have, I've seen on genetic panels, people with beautiful pathways

for clearing stuff and they seem to be able to do whatever they want. Like, it could be like those

people that smoke into their 90s. Like somehow, they were born with a system that is able to

clear that crap. Yes, it gets into their bodies. One hundred percent. I want to be so clear what

you're saying is so magnally that this is not everybody. Some people sail through a menopause

and they are fine. I haven't never been in practice. I've met them out in the world.

You told me before you don't treat those people because they don't need to be treated. So that's

why you have a menopause. Right. So let's talk about susceptibilities. Some of you just

talked about the genes. So I'm looking at my patients' genes. It's really important. And what I'm

looking at what I've seen in these people is that they have SNPs, or I'd say suboptimal genes

in specific pathways, in their detox pathways, in their endocrine pathways, in their inflammatory

pathways, some of them in their cognition pathways, their metabolic pathways. So I'm seeing this

in the genes. And then, so I want to think about the genes. I want to think about exposures.

A lot of them have malabsorptive issues. So not enough amino acids, not enough minerals,

I'm not enough B vitamins on board. We need those in order to detoxify properly,

whereas we'll recirculate toxins if we don't have those cold factors on board. So it's about

exposures and genes and stress and nutritional adequacy that got all of the organs of elimination.

Actually, that loops back to our talk earlier about curation and depuration, but these are the

people who are susceptible. So I have to look at all these things. I love that you said, look,

this is not about everybody running around going, holy crap, I have a problem. This is more about

understanding, you know, your unique terrain is going to affect your ability. And when you get stuck

in a health journey sometimes, it's looking at these things that helps to really move you know

for someone, which I would imagine you see happening all the time in your practice. Once you

you know, once you figure out that Rubik's cube of that individual, because everyone is different,

right? It is because Rubik's cube. I'm going to use that because that's what it is. They're all

their own Rubik's cube. They are because you know, we were speaking privately about Dr. Robert Navio

and the sound danger response in his research around mitochondria. And you know, one thing he

said to me recently is that all of these in almost all of these acquired complex chronic illnesses,

how does someone get there? It's through thousands of different biochemicals that are unique to

each individual. And those thousand different biochemicals meeting different genes that are unique

to each individual. And then each person has their own expression of their illness that they

have the same diagnosis that diagnosis is about what end tissues are affected, right?

Really? Oh, they've got there. He's so different.

Really different? What that remind me and he was saying there's no one single gene that's

responsible for any of these acquired complex chronic illnesses. Yeah, that's so that's so

interesting. The other thing, I mean, it's and the the challenges, you know, how do we

help more people? Because that is you are now getting into the most personalized form of

personalized medicine, which, you know, people listening would be like, well, yeah, why wouldn't we

just do that? You know, like even even pharmacogenetics, you know, I recently heard about someone who

I actually can't remember if they died or got morbidly ill from it might have been an anesthetic

issue. We have that information. And yet standard of care is not to say is not there right now to

say, let's look at this person's pathways of how they metabolize anesthetic. So we can understand,

do there is this person going to need more? Or might we be able to actually give this person a

little bit less because they metabolize it so much faster? And it's, you know, I mean, on the one

hand, it's inspiring, we have the information. It's this heartening that it's taking so long

for the conventional system to adopt these practices or even to invite a patient to say,

get us the information and we'll use it. And maybe there's not enough clinical trials behind it.

But I think it's at least some of these major pathways are fairly well understood.

I think so. And I mean, I have many patient stories where they say, you know, I got my genetic

work or I did, I did a certain test and I asked my doctor to look at this. And the doctor

said, no, they, yeah, I mean, and what can you do in an eight to 15 minute visit either?

And there's, I mean, there's medical liability, right? I mean, I think in defense of the

conventional doctor who sadly gets beat to a pulp in many of these interviews, I just want to say,

you know, that we need to acknowledge that they have been given very tight guardrails. And they are

not, you know, they're not, and that's why so many are leaving conventional medicine is because

they're realizing that the confines, the confines put around them, prevent them from practicing

the medicine that they know is really going to help people. And that's, I don't think they,

I don't think most of them mean harm. I think most of them want to do the best they can,

but the system, and even from a liability perspective, like it's, I'm sure, looking at someone's

genes and saying, let's titrate anesthetic differently, would open up a can of worms.

I'm sure, like, people went into medicine because they want to help people. They're good

souls. You don't go into that and go through, you can squeeze like a lemon through medical school

because you don't care, right? So these are, don't forget to zest everything.

All right, let's, let's get back to our bones. And one thing I wanted to point out to the audience

that I would, maybe you can speak to, is they do that at the expense of the minerals that need

to be there. Because, and, and that's where that's the crux of it, right? Because for whatever reason,

just like chlorine and fluoride have a higher affinity for thyroid, that thyroid hormone backbone

than iodine, these heavy metals have a heavier charge than the calcium in the mechanism, like the,

the things that we actually need on our bone. And so, A, they can displace, but B, you can take all

the calcium and magnesium on the planet, even if you're taking, with your D3 and your K2 and all

the boron and all the things, if you have actual heavy metals sitting on in that bone, it's cemented

until you drag it out of there. Here's the thing, I can't measure how much lead is in there.

Yeah. So, yeah. Say I'm curing someone and it's, and it's safely done. And I see that the lead

is coming down from testing. I see that body burden drop. I'm saying, yes, this is, this is excellent,

right? What's that body burden from the lead? I mean, sorry, from the bones, from the bones.

Well, most of it probably is because most of the, our, our, the lead gets stored in the bones.

The other, uh, the other metals, the mercury, lead, sorry, mercury, arsenic, cadmium,

they're going to get stored in the organs. Like using the thyroid, the kidneys, the liver, arsenic,

loves to get stored in the kidneys. So, when we're pulling lead out, if most of it is in the bones,

it probably is coming out of the bones when we pull it out. But I'm not sure you don't have a test.

You don't have a test. And yeah, you know what, you would think if somebody was interested

enough, they could develop that test. But anyway, we'll leave that for another day.

Let's talk about heavy metals. Last question on heavy metals is, how does, how do they interact

with inflammation pathways? Because again, I think you spoke to it a minute ago talking about

oxidative stress. But maybe let's just finish on that point here about, you know, how those

heavy metals impact inflammation. And then the hormonal signaling, again, and the people that are,

I mean, I'm sure it's hitting men as well. But when a woman is going through this

menopausal transition, she's so vulnerable that it's really showing up there.

It's really, really showing up. And so, so these women who were, first of all,

more susceptible to immune system dysregulation because of lack of hormone, when the immune

systems are already in a state of dysregulation, talking about a hyperactive immune system and a

weak immune system simultaneously, meaning a lot of these women, they've got Hashimoto's or

another autoimmune condition, and they've got mass electivation syndrome, and that's

hyperactivity in the immune system. And yet, the immune system is weak. I can see their

white blood cells on the low side. They're permissible. The immune system is more permissive to

chronic infections. So this, this, I tell them it's like having an untrained fighter in the ring.

Now, immune system, that untrained fighter is throwing kicks and punches, but in the wrong direction,

and at the wrong person. And so we need to bring that into alignment. Actually, we've talked about

this before. I use peptide therapies in a massive way to bring the immune system into alignment.

There's nothing. I all means go down the rabbit hole. Again, people's

hear peptides. My regular is like, really? What do you mean?

I got really, really into the peptides nine years ago. The same time I'd say that the biohackers

started to get into them. But the doctors were not yet into them. The doctors are starting to get

into it now, but I became obsessed with the peptides because I knew I'm still obsessed with them.

And the biohackers, there's something here. There's something different. These are signaling

molecules. I don't have any other substance that is a signaling molecule like a peptide.

And back in the day, when I trained with Dr. Klinghardt a long time ago, after medical school,

he would say you want to modulate the immune system first. So then we try. I would try when I

got into practice. Oh, vitamin C and mushrooms and all the herbs to modulate the immune response

didn't work. Well, it blows it up and brings it down. Yeah, 100% didn't work. So I was like, well,

this is nice in theory, but it's not going to work. Nine years ago, when I got my hands on

peptides more easily, I was like, this, this is how we're going to modulate the immune system.

And I do. So starting, actually, I'm starting with lorazotide. I'm totally going on another

pack. That is okay. No, because lorazotides are going to seal the gut, which is going to calm down

the, the immune, because all the LPS getting through the gut pisses off the immune system. So,

yes, take away. I mean, you're, you're basically, you know, this is, this is the theme, right?

If you want to stop a process, you have to get to what's driving it in the first place. So

please share lorazotide. Why is it your first line of data? Right. So these patients who have

mass electivation center immune system dysregulation, they're, I said this earlier, but I want to

talk a little bit more. They're, they're sensitive, not only to foods and chemicals. They're sensitive to

the different, I'd say the different signaling in the body when it's out of whack, right?

Yeah. So if I'm sealing leaky gut, I'm preventing antigens that should never cross into circulation

and preventing that from happening, because when those antigens and toxins cross into circulation,

they're tripping up the mass cells. And like you said, pissing off the immune system. And,

you know, so lorazotide, I've never seen anything be more efficacious in treating leaky gut than

lorazotide. So yeah, starting with that one first. And then I'm starting to use the peptides

that, that are for mass electivation syndrome and lexanox. It also helps open up the airways.

A lot of my patients have that issues used for chronic rhinocytes, rhino sinusitis. They've got

inflamed sinuses. They've got issues with insulin. It helps with menoplimation. So I love

amlexanox for those reasons. And people's mass electivation syndrome starts to calm down

when I give them amlexanox. KPV is another mass cell stabilizer. But it also has antimicrobial

effects against Candida and staff, right? A lot of these patients have Candida issues. If I give them

KPV right away, it's hard on their system for that reasons. It starts to kill the Candida.

And they're not ready to die off. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, KPV later. You're going to come in later.

lorazotide. I'm lexanox. I'm also giving some low dose neltraxone. And I'm maybe getting

ketodifen and chromolin from the compounding pharmacy. Stabilize the mass cells as best as I can.

Then comes in KPV. And then I've noticed, though, if I'm to give TB4 or GHK,

before I treat that mass solidivation syndrome in the patient population, those peptides could

trip up and cast. Because they're more than repair peptides. And the immune cells might take that

as a threat. The immune cells at this point think that everything is a danger. Okay. So back to the

bioregulators. I'm starting with the bioregulators for whatever system the patient is out of balance.

Either thyroid, you know, the thyroid bioregulator and all of the organs, the blood vessels,

and the phymascland, I would think. Phymascland, it's huge. And so we're coming to their system

then I'm bringing in the peptides that way. And then when the patient is ready, I started

to treat infections. A1, L37. Although these patients have autoimmune conditions,

by L37 can exacerbate autoimmune conditions. So they're not getting L37 until I can modulate

the immune response. I'm really sequencing. I had to really think in depth about how I'm going

to sequence these peptides for this patient population. Yeah. I love that you are saying this

because, and this is one of the most important conversations I think around peptides. That is,

it's kind of starting to happen. And I think it doesn't happen often enough. And that is that,

you know, peptides are so tempting to the the end of one enthusiast. And even people,

you know, we have the biohackers on one side who will do, throw anything in their body if they

think they're going to get benefit of. But even in the, I'm sure you see this in the chronic

complex illness situation where someone has been gaslit. They've been told there's nothing wrong

with them. They've no options. They don't know what to do anymore. And now they start looking at,

they go to Reddit, they go to Facebook, they go to wherever. And they, they come across

enough of this stuff that they're like, okay, this is going to help me. And I think the most

important message to that audience. And, and yes, this can absolutely help you. But in a situation

where you have a system that is so vulnerable, and again, prone to over underreaction, whatever

the case may be, the order of operations, the guidance from a professional for you is going to

make the difference between potentially sending yourself into a crisis. Or at best, wasting a ton

of money and getting no results. And that's not a good result. Like, you know what I mean? Like,

that's a crappy outcome. The worst case scenario is you're sitting in an ER trying to explain to

someone how you just injected something into your body that you bought online, that you read

somewhere was going to help you, that seems to have sent you into some kind of a crisis.

Well, I'm so glad you're bringing this up because it's so common, right? So I'll have patients

come in and say, I took TA1 and it was so bad. And I say, okay, the right peptide, but at the wrong

time, right? The sequencing for these patients is crucial. And you brought up so many important

points here. Like, first of all, buying it from some place online, you don't know what kind of

toxin is in there. Remember that study? I forget when it came out, but it was a Swiss study

that showed that 80% of peptides just randomly online have some contamination in where I'd say

some extra substance in them that's not. Especially, yeah, I think a lot of the stuff coming in from

overseas. I mean, look, there, the truth of the matter is overseas, we all know what I'm talking

about has the ability to make amazing product. The problem is that regulation's not great.

So if they don't rinse the solvence out, if they don't test for toxins, if they don't test for

how much is in the violence, some people like, well, you know, my company guarantees there's more

in the vial than they say there is. I'm like, that's amazing. And makes it, it'll literally impossible

for you to dose. Yeah, like, how are you going to know what you're taking? Like, I'm just saying,

it's great to get more when you get a bag of marbles and you get 40 marbles instead of 30 marbles,

you can take away the 10 marbles. But when you get a peptide that's supposed to be 10 milligrams

and you get 12 or 13 to 14 and a half and you really only need 100 micrograms, how the heck are

you going to figure that one out? Right. You can't. And you could be overdosing yourself right there

or under the one if there's less. Exactly. I mean, either. And like, you know, I picked over because

most people would say, well, I'm getting more for my money. And I'm like, yeah, you are.

But that may not serve you. Anyway, okay. Good. That was another great little sidebar. So

let's talk about the other stressors that come into play. All right. So you often, and this is

where we come to our bucket analogy, right? We talk about toxic, toxic load. What have you seen

be the side, the other players that will interplay with these things? And you may have mentioned some

of them before, but I feel like some of them might not even be substances. They might be things

like stress or whatever the case may be. What are the things that are pushing women into this

overload? Is it the genetics? Is the lifestyle environment? Like, what is it that you're seeing

that's really happening to play? I love that you want to stress because it's a very interesting one.

There are some people who they have trauma with a big T in their life and they never get sick.

Yeah. And there are some people who have trauma with a big T in their life and they get very, very sick.

That's a lot of my patients. It's some of my patients. They're only trauma as if it's not

being us is the trauma of being ill. And until they got sick, it was just little T traumas and they

were fine with that. So it's not that everybody who has heavy trauma in their life gets sick, but it's

that it's very often that patients who have these illnesses have a history of that kind of trauma. And

then there's not enough, I'd say, internal, spiritual, mental, emotional healing that's been done.

Yeah. It's a time where they understand that often they say, wow, at the end of it, when they,

when they, when they can not only at the end of their illness, but as they start to see results,

and I'm going to have to say it's often with the peptides because that has been able to get me,

has helped me get them their lives faster. Someone will take me five years to treat on peptide therapies

now two years, someone two years, one year, eight months. Wow. That is crazy. It's crazy. But

anyway, so so they start to notice healing faster because of the peptides and bio regulators.

And then they start to say, you know what? I'm glad this happened. I'm starting to evolve in a way

that I never did. I'm starting to really understand that I can have self sovereignty.

I was talking to a woman today. I'm sorry. Yesterday, a new patient, and she said to me,

she's had, she's had the life of major major trauma, big T trauma after big T trauma and just

mesolidivations in her and in a lot of complex chronic illness, including

Lyme and co-infections and all these toxins and not somewhat early menopause. And she said,

you know, it wasn't until I actually released my anger that I started to understand that I can

have boundaries and and I can have self sovereignty and I I started to feel less, less sensitive.

She's still highly sensitive. She has a ways to go, but but understanding this piece, allowing

the emotions to express even if they might not be luminous emotions, as long as they're not stuck

in non-luminous emotions, but that that can lead to illness, I think. But if we if we experience

a spectrum of human emotion, fully experience it so that we can then move through it,

that really helps with healing. That's face it, you can't change your biology, but you can

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VitaliSkinCare.com and use code NAT20 for 20% off. I don't know if I told you about this and I

don't usually do this, but I recorded a podcast last week, this exact topic, and this is a physician

who now who wrote a book called The Biology of Trauma, who ties together the impact of trauma

on the physiology of a person, and both ways. I would say that anybody listening to this,

if you think you're one of these people, you need to go find this book. It's called Biology of

Trauma by Dr. Amia Pigain. I'm only doing this on your podcast in a physical because I think that

what she explains, and this is going to be very short, is that one person's big T trauma is

another person's little T trauma, and your personal life experience will dictate whether that

affects your physiology or not. I'm going to leave it at that. I don't want to see it in my

position. I would invite anybody listening, even you just check out her work, because

well, you're seeing this in practice, and it would be so interesting to see how she's kind of

brought these two worlds together, because Mary often they're separate, right? Eric recently interviewed

her for our forum. We did. For the last one. Yeah, so familiar with her work, but yeah. That's

exactly what you're talking about here, which, you know, so just to give it another shout, you guys,

like I think that, listen to Dr. Gordon's interview with her too, I think her work is, again,

it's going to be one of those bodies of work that I think can be very powerful for any number of

people. Okay, let's get back to our women in midlife with brain fog. So what's the first thing?

Because what I want to talk about is testing without over-testing. I think that in a world where

people couldn't test for stuff, and they want information, people want validation,

there's also this line of testing too much, or testing the wrong thing, or testing. And so

when you have a woman in midlife, she's got brain fog, fatigue, she's got all this other stuff

going on. What's the first thing you want to understand before you start running these toxic

labs on toxins or detox? Yeah. The first thing I want to understand is her terrain, the terrain

of her own system, basic labs. I'm just running a CBC, and a CMP, and a thyroid panel,

sex hormone panel, adrenal, I'm just doing basic, naturopathic, functional medicine first.

Because some people, all they need is their hormones fix a little bit, they're gut-balanced,

and off they go back to their life. Yeah. I don't think you see that often in your population,

in one of my patient populations, I do that, and they're like, okay, I notice a difference,

bring on the bioregulators, and then I say, we need to consider the toxins. Actually, first run

though, in my blood, in urine tests, along with thyroid and CBC and everything else I am looking at

metals, because we're all exposed to them. Remember, they're in the top three, right? All the toxins,

so that's just like, that just, it's rather than out. Yeah. Yeah. When I see that high,

then I start to think, hmm, are you a poor detoxifier? Do you have snips in your genetic pathways?

Where is this coming from? You have high metal. You have other high toxins. What's going on here?

And, you know, also depends on how sick the patient is. The patient is, if the patient is

sensitive to everything, some people are even sensitive to water. Yeah. Is that patient? I'm not

even going to want to detoxify them anyways, just yet they're not ready for detox. I can't start

pulling toxins through a system that's completely depleted. Yeah. So I want to replete their system.

I want to understand their nutrient status first. And then, you know, at some point, after I've

repeated them, I've supported their organs with the bioregulators. There's nothing like that,

honestly, for this patient population. Then I can start to bring in peptides for immune modulation.

Yeah. And then I'll be like, let's test these things. You're starting to get better. Yeah.

It's so interesting. You know, the nutrient replenishment that you refer to, what's,

what I think is we underestimate often is some, many of those depletions will affect your body's

ability to function at a foundational level. And so if you restore that a complete deficiency,

even if it's like a vitamin, a B vitamin, or whatever the case may be, all of a sudden,

something that wasn't working might start working again. I'm sure that what you find is it takes

you like, it's like a domino effect. It's going to take you down the domino chain. And then you'll

hit another block. All this work got done without you doing that much other than just

providing something that the body just didn't have. Right. I have some people, they can't take

oral supplements because they've got a malabsorptive issue. One of the tests I'm doing early on is

the microbiome. I want to know, I'm often testing what's in the sinuses. When we talk about menopause

and brain fog, well, there's a big connection between sinus colonization of microbes that shouldn't

be there. I see multiple different funguses or different bacterial infections and biofilm.

If that's there, then inflammation from the sinuses can easily cross a blood brain barrier through

the trigeminal nerve or through the, you know, just through nerves that connect through the

cribiform plate. So it's easy for toxins and inflammatory cytokines to cross the blood brain

and then the brain fog isn't only for menopause, I correct for the hormones and they still have

that thing. Okay, what else? I am an attack in sinuses and very often that there's bugs in there.

Once I start to treat those, the brain issues start to come back and then I start to use

c-max or c-link or other nootropic peptides to help bring the brain back online the way it was

to bring down brain inflammation. Again, people run to the c-max in c-link, but if there's

a block, if there's a physical reality why that's happening, I think that's where we're seeing

people that don't respond to them and say, oh, I didn't work. Again, you know, that guidance,

it's that clarity and guidance. Okay, so what are you seeing as the biggest testing mistake that

you're seeing with well-intentioned practitioners in this space? I mean, like, what's the biggest?

Is it the over-the-under or just knocking? I think it's both. So honestly, there's a lot of

infunctional medicine, environmental toxins, and chronic infections are missed when the patient

is going to complex chronic illness diagnosis. But when it be clear to people what those diagnoses

are, it's non-COVID that wasn't fixed at one of the long COVID clinics with one of the long

protocols. It is fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, those insidious ones, yeah. So when

functional medicine tries to treat those, usually they're balancing the gut, they're working on

the hormones, they're working on the terrain, like I was talking about, it's so important to do

that, so those are foundational steps. But then they haven't been taught how to detox, they haven't

been taught how to deal with multiple low-level chronic infections, kind of like multiple low-level

chronic toxins. That's where functional medicine just misses the boat. So that's totally missed.

And if they do test that, they don't know how to treat it. So people have to do a lot of extra

training if they want to get into this. So they might test, they might test, here's, let's get back

to metals. What I'm seeing is doctors doing only a post-provocation test. So they're

curating the patient, testing their metals, and then saying, look, you have a high toxic burden.

But you've pushed them out. Yeah. Yeah, you've pushed them out. I don't know. Does the patient, like,

was that patient even ready for a publication test? They probably felt really bad with the

provocation test that they had a malabsorbed issue, or they didn't have enough co-factors, minerals,

amino acids, if they're depleted. That wasn't the right thing to do. So we need to do an unprovoked

test first. And then a provoked test, an understanding of chelation is appropriate for that patient.

So I see a lot of chelation testing run without looking at pre-provoked testing first.

Yeah. And I love that. I think just to quickly explain to the audience, like, provoked versus

unprovoked. So unprovoked is really where your, the body's at rest. You're running a blood test,

or whatever it is. And you're saying, what's flowing, what's floating around in the system

when nothing's in your day to day? Whereas a provoked test is you're actually administering a compound

that's going to actively push, hopefully, we hope, stored toxins, metals, whatever the case may be,

out into the circulation where we can see them because we know the body hides them. Is that a

reasonable explanation for that? 100 percent. Yeah. Okay. Okay. There are some people. I expect

a high mercury burden. They eat a ton of fish. They don't know how to do that. I test the blood.

I test the urine, and it's not there. Or I test the blood. It's there, but it's not in the urine.

And I go, wow, you're accumulating it, but you're not urinating it out. Or it's not showing up.

But I expect the burdens. Then I start to think, what's going on downstream? You're not, you're

not able to excrete any of this. You should have high metals. Okay. Maybe you have an issue with

your glutathione. So then I want to understand their glutathione status. Is your glutathione

oxidized? Is it under oxidized stress? If it is, then the rest of their body probably is under

oxidative stress as well. So we need to fix that. Do they have enough glutathione? Do they have

enough cofactors to support glutathione? Specifically, the B vitamins and magnesium and magnesium and

selenium. Okay. I need to correct for the glutathione status first. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's

all right. And we'll test it. Yeah. No, that's one other little sidebar I wanted to bring in,

because a couple of years ago, I interviewed someone. And one of the things that she talked about,

I'm curious if you've seen this as well, is how you can do a panel for, you know, the toxins,

the co-infections. And you might only see one or two things. But what she talked about is when

you remove that one or two, all of a sudden, it's like everybody was hiding behind them. It's

like the cyclists in a peloton, you got the guys that are coasting in the stream, the air stream

behind the other guys. You don't see them, but they're there. And they may not even be active,

but all of a sudden, a space has opened up. And now they, like, are you seeing kind of this

all the time, this expression of other stuff that comes up that you didn't hear. Yes, it comes

with that I expect it. If I don't see it, if I don't see it, I'm like, well, we're going to see

it. There's no way I haven't, I, I never see it not happen. Interesting. Okay, cool.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, pre-talks. Let's prepare the system. Talk to us about that. How?

Like, talk to us about this pre-talks philosophy. Like, what are you stabilizing before you

mobilize those metals? Like, how does that all happen? It's really important that we stabilize

the bone loss first. First of all, we want to make sure the patient doesn't go into a diagnosis

of osteophenium, osteoporosis, because then that becomes dangerous. But I do want to keep that

lead cemented in there for now. If they're still having a lot of bone turnover and losing the

lead, I could curate them to osteoporosis. That's the width of their money and their time and

their health. So we want to take care of the bone loss first. By working on the malabsorptive

issues, by correcting for the hormones, by giving all that the supplements, I don't like to give

the bisphosphonase that they just lay down weaker bone. Yeah. Yeah. So usually I can correct for that.

Then I'm looking at the co-factors against the nutrient status. Because if we start to

keylate, but there's not enough nutrients, not only keylate, but maybe use phospholipids to

pull out toxins from outside of the fat cells that would be maybe pulling out glyphosate or

salvins or pesticides, palates. So if I'm using phospholipid there, it'd be to pull those

toxins out of circulation. And I'm using EDTA and DMPS to pull metals out of the organ cells.

But there's not enough minerals on board. We're going to do a celery detox. Imagine here's a cell.

There's the toxins in there. I pull it out. I want those toxins out of there.

I want them out flushed out of the system, not recirculated. They can get recirculated across

the blood brain barrier then. So I've had a lot of people say I did a detox before and it felt

horrible. I could only do that. Well, one day I'm going to prepare you for that. It just means

you weren't ready for that. So I could have been able to pleated. But then I'm thinking about

their organs. Each organ, remember you talked about the amuntaries a while ago. So I'm looking at

those amuntaries. What's going on with the cut? If a patient is constipated, they've got chronic

constipation. If I start to do a cell of their detox, pulling toxins out of the cells and they're

constipated, the toxins will just recirculate. Yeah. If they have IBS or irritable bowel disease,

they've got inflammation in their gut. This is not a time that I want to pull toxins out and

have them rush through the gut for detox. It's going to further inflame their gut. So yeah,

for that or the liver. A lot of people have elevated liver enzymes. I want to bring them down

with herbs, deliver bio-regulator. I know why. The enzymes can be high because of the

toxins themselves. So as long as I'm supporting the liver through the process, then we can detox

if they're ready for that. The kidneys, chronic UTIs or interstitial cystitis. A lot of times

interstitial cystitis is just mass-alituations syndrome hitting the gentle urinary tract. So

I want to correct for that before I start to detox because I don't want them peeing out.

Toxins when that urine is going through that system. So really supporting every system of their

body, making sure lymphatic flow is adequate. I don't have a test for that, but we can tell when

someone's lymphatics are stuck, people get lymphatic massage, very, very gentle to start with

while I'm supporting the other organs of elimination. The thyroid, the sex hormones, all of this

has to be taken care of before we start to do a cellular detox. I love it. I love it.

Okay. Well, and I would guess that doing that preparation is ultimately going to determine whether

that detox is going to succeed or fail. I mean, I can only imagine, like if you haven't done all

those steps, if you haven't taken care of all those things, that's when you're going to hit those

walls or potentially end up with someone who feels worse than they did when they came in.

Which is really not the goal. The goal is when I'm like, please doctors, don't do that detox,

don't do it. If all of this isn't taken care of, the patient will just be thicker.

You talked a lot about how peptides fit into the process, especially for the immune support.

What about mitochondrial support? Are you using, at any point in your process, are you using

peptides to support mitochondria in the processes? Yes. I was thinking a lot about this, actually.

And in talking to Dr. Navio about his work, the mitochondria, and in my clinical experience,

I've seen it as well. The mitochondria, when they are experiencing insults, the insults I've

talked about, multiple toxins, multiple infections, stress, diet, all of these issues, the mitochondria

start to quieten down in their ATP production to be used for energy.

They stop using intracellular ATP. Instead, they send their ATP outside. It's called extracellular

ATP. And that's the mitochondria ringing the alarm bell. And telling the rest of the mitochondria,

hey, we've got a problem here. We've got an insult. We've got to slow down, to contain the slow

down ATP production, increase oxidative stress, increase inflammation of the mitochondria, do this,

to contain the insult. People think of mitochondria as just ATP producers. But as you and I were

talking about before we even got on there, they are, they're ornals that sense the environment.

They speak to the immune system. They speak to the endocrine system. They're not just pumping out

energy. Not mild, not not blindly. That's for sure. They have a big job.

They have a big job. And so I was telling Dr. Navio, you know, I've noticed that when the patient

is stuck in a state of persistent inflammation and persistent oxidative stress, if I start to

stimulate the mitochondria, it's like tickling an angry person. They're not going to find that

very funny. Right. So the mitochondria have, it's programmed. It's on purpose. They, they have

quietened down their ATP production, but increased the oxidative stress to contain the insult.

Now, a lot of these patients, we get rid of the insults. We clear the toxins. We kill the bugs.

And they still are in a state of persistent oxidative stress and inflammation. It's still happening.

They're stuck in the cell danger response. They're stuck in the response that they don't

ought to quieten down. So this is a great time to bring in the peptides after. I really thought

in double sequencing, do I want to use the peptides in? Well, I want to, I want to stop

inappropriate apoptosis from happening. So I'm going to come in with human in first.

Interesting. As human in, the mitochondria release that. To tell the cells, it's time to stop

that inappropriate apoptosis. So that one comes in first. Next, I'm going to bring in SS31,

because it's going to stabilize the inner mitochondrial membrane. When we stabilize the inner

mitochondria membrane now, the mitochondria can actually start to make more ATP.

It actually stabilizes the electron transport chain to start to bring down

reactivoxuction species at the source. As you remember, when the person has those bugs,

I want the mitochondria to increase their ROS. I want them to increase their inflammation. It's

not that inflammation and reactivoxuction species is bad. It's bad at the wrong moment when it's

stuck in the loop, but the peptides can get unstuck. That's a word. Stop that stuck pattern.

It's breaking the loop. It's what you just said. It's really breaking the loop.

Breaking the loop. Then I can bring in MOTC after, because that's about metabolic reprogramming.

If I bring in MOTC before I bring in humanin, it doesn't make sense to shift metabolic programming

in cells that are inappropriately dying, or it doesn't make sense to ask the mitochondria to

increase ATP after I've shifted the signaling. That's how I like to think of it,

it's bringing in this patient population. You're understanding why is the mitochondria slowing

down. That is a respect for the innate wisdom in the body. That doesn't mean that sometimes we don't

get stuck in loops. That doesn't mean that sometimes things go offline. Even, for example, someone

who's very, very stressed, one of the things I learned was, and we look at the thyroid and it's

the thyroid is not performing, so we try to boost thyroid function. Really, that is because the

adrenal glands are asking the thyroid to slow the heck down, because they can't keep up with the

demands. Here, you're saying pretty much a similar thing. What I think is important for us to

sometimes understand is even though how we feel is a bag of broken toys and we don't have energy

and we can't move, if we can take a minute and pause and understand, is this something that the

body is doing to somehow protect the rest of the system? Can we solve that first? Now we ask

for more, you're going to get a better outcome, because I think Montse, it has this aura of just

use Montse, you're going to have more energy, you're going to burn more fat, you're going to perform

better, yes, but not if the system's already on its knees. That's a very powerful message,

I think, that I hope lands with a lot of people. Okay, we're going to start winding down here,

but I'm curious about your, and I believe I know what you're going to say, but for the audience,

how do lifestyle tools, like sauna, fasting, or exercise benefit or deplete? Again, where do

you see them fitting in? Yeah, if somebody can tolerate the sauna, it's an excellent way of

excreting metals. I mean, really, anyway, sweating, but the sauna gets deep, right? And

yeah, sweating off those talks, but some of my patients can't be in the sauna for more than five or

10 minutes. Yeah, so if somebody has post-exertial malaise, don't push yourself past that point,

whether it's with exercise, whether it's with sauna, these things that are supposed to

be good for you, they're not good for you anymore when your system is stuck in that loop,

when you're dependent, when your organs of elimination are not optimal, then this is only

going to push you off the edge. For somebody who, you know, I've worked with them for maybe it's

going to take two years to get them better. And now, and they're through year one, and when

they were sensitive to everything, they couldn't walk up a flight of stairs, they had to just

take a deep breath after, and then go to sleep the rest of the day. Of course, these people have

to get checked out by theologist, the proper cardiologist, pulmonary, whatever it is, they get

checked out, and they're within normal limits. Theologist says, in fact, you're normal. That's my

blessing. I know I can go on with what I need to do, right? But I just had to throw that in there,

because it's important. 100%. But so these patients, they cannot tolerate anything.

No sauna, no exercise, it's going to cause post-exertial malacious, do what you can. But now say

they're one year in, and they can walk up five flights of stairs now. But they still get a little

tired, instead of having to, instead of being bedridden, they just need a nap for an hour every

day. At that point, they can tolerate the sauna more, they can tolerate more exercise, and they

start to be more like a normal person, and then patients meet, and now I'm going to come and buy

a hacker. I'm like, you go ahead, go do that, you know? No, they're probably. Yeah, yeah.

Things like binders with sauna, because I think one of the thing about sauna is, and especially,

well, there's some interesting literature that around infrared versus traditional sauna, and I

know that the infrared can sometimes have real benefits for people who are more sensitive,

because their bodies not being asked to deal with as a high heat, and there was a really

interesting study called the bun study, and it compared the differences in compounds that were

released from the extreme heat versus the infrared, especially full spectrum. It goes at different

tissues in different ways, but have you found, again, like, I mean, a population of people that can

handle three minutes of sauna, that's just not for them. But if you found, as that tolerance

goes up, that using binders at the right time can kind of assist in kind of catching those toxins

until the body can release them properly. Yes, I'm so glad you brought up binders. I want to

bring up binders and peptides and how I use those together. There are many patients who cannot

tolerate a binder, and you know, they read books that talk about who you have to use specific

binders for specific things. And I play, yeah, on the stuff, yeah, try all them, and it's not good.

There's lots of people like that. They make sense. I really think that's about the immune system,

just even thinking that the binder is dangerous. So the way I use, I've talked about using peptides,

you know, that's it. Like, actually, I don't know if I, I don't, I'm bringing up another podcast.

I don't know if, you know, if you saw Kent and I, can't Dr. Holtorf and I doing a webinar together

on, on Sears, chronic inflammatory response syndrome. Yeah, he talks about that a lot. Yeah,

that's right. And so, so binders, you know, they're not always going to work for people. They're

not ready for it. So if we start to use the peptides to modulate the immune response, the way

I was talking about earlier, people are going to start to eliminate toxins on their own, their

detox pathways are going to start to normalize when their immune system is in line.

That point, I might start to do more active detox with the patient. And at that point,

they're actually more tolerant of the binders. Yeah, I love that you said that because I think

binders get positioned as a, as a blanket solution for people. I'll just take a binder and I love

that you're bringing up that there's real nuance in even in that space because, you know, whether

it's activated charcoal or bentonite clay or there's some varied, there's some prescription ones

that are, if there's one in particular that I know people really like, cholesterol,

I mean, yeah, which is kind of like a good news bad news thing. I think that, again, bringing

nuance to that conversation. And frankly, not even just for the complex chronic illness people,

just for our run of the mill people is a really important distinction. So thank you for that.

All right, let's, let's look ahead. And as we close up, I mean, you know, obviously we could

keep going here. But what's in your, in terms of what you're seeing, what's the most exciting

emerging science in environmental illness and longevity that you're seeing right now?

Like what's, what's on the horizon that really kind of floats your boat?

Plasma ferrisis. We actually, we actually do it at our clinic. So we have, we've been doing it

for the past three, four years for our patients or, or if people want to refer, we, we usually

focus on people who have complex chronic illness because that often allows us to remove enough

toxin or enough antibodies to make room for us to do the other treatments that we need to do.

The more toxins we are able to actually remove from the system, the more the immune system is

going to start to modulate. Some people have such a high toxic burden that it's going to take

years to detox. The way I see it, it's a little bit and, and maybe you could briefly explain

what plasma ferrisis is, but just for people who may not have heard about it. But I think it's a

little bit like in certain, not to go down the cancer road, but sometimes you just have to remove

the tumor. Like sometimes you just have to get rid of the physical, that physical piece so that

you leave space for healing and, and everything else. And, you know, maybe without the plasma

ferrisis, it just would take so much longer, but you're able to kind of lower the levels on that

bucket of toxins so that people can actually see a better benefit. So maybe quickly define

for the audience, what is plasma ferrisis? The plasma ferrisis is a technique where we pull out

the toxins from the blood. Okay, and the toxins are, are stuck to albumin. Albumin is like a

sponge for the toxins. So we pull it out and then we filter it and then the fresh blood is

introduced back into the system. So what gets filtered out? All kinds of toxins. So there is a

paper done probably eight months ago now that showed that total plasma ferrisis removes glyphosate,

microtoxins, metals, forever chemicals, a host of chemicals that it would otherwise take a long,

long, long time to detoxify from. So then we replace the albumin and we go ahead. Yeah, and also

IG, I, the IG. So plasma ferrisis, I'm thinking that that sounds more like total plasma

TP. They're the same because I thought that's so interesting because I thought there were two

different processes. So maybe I'm wrong about that because I thought plasma ferrisis was returning

everything back. It, well, minus the bad actors. And that the TPE is where we replace albumin.

So question about TPE. What are your thoughts on sourcing of albumin? Because I know that

that is a real hot topic right now. And nobody asked, not a lot of people ask that question.

So we've asked that question. Are you sure you have a question? And it is tested for, it is tested

for, it is, it's clean. It's, it's important. So, so guys, just so you know, like what we're

talking about here is, and this is a medical procedure, like this has been done in hospitals in

very, you know, in very extreme cases for a long time. This is a, this is a pretty intrusive

procedure. But I think what you're talking about is how powerful it can be in, in treating chronic

complex illness where the load is just so high. And what do you think of people just running around

getting TPE because it sounds like a good idea? I think there's too many of those, you know? I mean,

some people, they say it really helped them. They feel differently. They didn't realize how

fatigued they were, you know? But here's the thing, getting TPE without having the appropriate

support around that. I think that's inappropriate. I think it's not going to work as well. But we need

to support, like I was talking about support the body with the amino acids, with the minerals.

Okay. The more seriously prior, um, we'll give sperminine to how kill off the zombie cells.

So interesting. We're going to support the body, pulled, we're going to do some cellular detox

before giving the Pleasant Freezes as well, support the body in what we're asking to do with

the Pleasant Freezes after that. We are then supporting the body again. Some people might get NAD,

they might get exosomes after it, right? They might get, they'll get more peptides after that

because now we want to reprogram the cells. So plus this on its own without the support before and

after, I don't think it's going to be as effective at all. Last question on this, even though this

was supposed to be quick fire, is it one TPE or is it a series? It depends on them, on the person.

So for somebody who is pretty well, they just want, they want to clear out the zombie cells,

they want to, they want to do this for anti-aging. Usually two is good and they could do one in one

month, they could do one another, the second month or they could do one one week and one another

week in a row. For people who have complex chronic illness, they might need five or seven over

the course of a year to a year and a half, based on their tolerance. I would thank you.

And we go very, very slow. So the other clinics that do this, they go a lot faster, but we can't

do that because our patients are sensitive. They're going to get really tired. They're going to

have a muscle reaction maybe. So if we run it really slow, maybe it's a five hour process instead

of a three hour process. That's okay. We just want the patient to be comfortable. Yeah, I love it.

Okay. All right, a couple of quick questions and I'm going to release you to go back and heal the

people. If you could rewrite the standard menopause conversation, what would change? What would you

change about the standard menopause conversation that's happened? There's so much, there's good noise

about it. It's good. There's a lot of attention. But what would you change about what's happening?

I really want women to feel like they are self-sovereign, not only in their health, but in their lives,

in that their health is a reflection of their life, that women don't have to suffer. That's

what I would change. We're taught, even though the message is starting to change, but for decades,

it's been, hey, you don't have enough hormones. That's just aging. Yeah. It doesn't have to be

that we age unhealthily. There are many things that we can do to support that and I'm all for it.

Yeah. Well, and that ties into the next question. What gives you optimism about women aging well

despite the toxic world we live in? What gives you optimism? We have so many tools.

Now, there are so many tools to even help with the nervous system. Amy Apigian's work,

Captain King's work, the primal trussic. This is what women want. They're hungry for that

internal healing, and then that ties in with all the work that I do to shift their biochemistry,

to work with their genes. I'm doing more than that, that women will tell me everything.

Yeah, everything. What an honor. What an honor it is to hear the depths of our heart and soul

and when they're witnessed by their doctor who's working on their biochemistry,

that's when they get to be seen as a whole person. And so that gives me hope.

I love it. Dr. Nephiza, this has been a really wide ranging and fantastic conversation,

which I knew it would be. So I want to thank you so much for being here today and for taking the

time and please let tell people where they can learn more about your work, about your amazing

clinic. Yeah, so our clinic is Gordon Medical and we're in the San Francisco Bay area.

And it's just Gordonmedical.com and there's information about me and all of our doctors

at that on the website. So that's all there. And thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and an honor and I look forward to many more conversations.

We need to thank you so much. Hey folks, just a quick reminder that all of the information

presented in this podcast is for information purposes only. No medical advice, no diagnosing,

no treatments suggested here. Before you try anything that you hear about or learn about here,

make sure that you check with your medical provider.