5 Ways "Smart" Devices Are Killing Your Freedom And Health

0:00For the first time ever, a major national health agency is admitting that people who get sick from wireless signals might be on to something real. So the France's health safety agency, Ancise, just opened funding into research into the actual biology behind it after decades of calling it all in people's heads. Now my guest today, she didn't need a research grant to know that. Years ago, her own body started reacting to wireless signals almost like it was a bad allergy. She couldn't sleep. She couldn't think clearly. And doctors didn't really have any answers at all. So she did something that almost no one does. She gave up her smartphone. She gave up Wi-Fi and eventually she gave up electricity altogether. And she moved deep into the forest with no internet at home at all.

1:01And what she found out about wire technology is built the way that it is, might change the way that you look at your phone. So my guest is Shannon Rowan. She's a former photojournalist who became one of the most outspoken voices on the hidden health costs of wireless technology. After years of unexplained illnesses, she traced her symptoms back to constant exposure to cell signals in Wi-Fi. She's since written several books including the Wi-Fi refugee and her newest book, The Red Shoes, where she uses an old dark fairy tale to explain how technology can look exciting and helpful at first, but then it slowly takes control of our lives. Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason and a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holhaus. Now before we start, please hit that like button in the share button and that subscribe button. It really helps get information out to more people. Now one last thing I want to tell you about something real quickly. So one of my favorite guests who's actually a girlfriend of mine is Dr. Brian Artis. He's a really, really smart guy. So he created this drink called Hydrate Complete.

2:04And I'm being completely honest with you. I tell you that my family drinks this stuff every day. So when you sweat and you get dehydrated, the problem isn't that the water is just leaving your body. It's that there's 40 nutrients that are in that sweat that's leaving your body. So these are the nutrients that your body needs to stay healthy, have energy and think clearly. So this little drink mix, which tastes actually really good, it has all 40 of those nutrients. And I can personally tell you that when you drink this, it's not like drinking the glass of water or some sort of sports drink. It wakes something up inside of you. Like the brain fog, the tiredness, the low energy, it just disappears. And our promise is not some placebo effect because I like Dr. Artis. But anyone I give this to has the exact same experience. So for our recent fourth of July party, when it was really hot, I literally made five gallons of this stuff. One of those big, egg blue ice coolers. And I kept having people ask me, Seth, where can I get this? And there's also, there's no artificial flavors or official sweeteners or any of that kind

3:05of junk in it. So I feel good giving it to my kids. So you should really give it a try. Seriously, it's that good. So just click the link in the description. You buy it right here. And make sure you use the code Seth, SETH to save 10%. So again, that link is in the description below. You won't regret it. Just give it a try. All right, let's go ahead and jump into my conversation with Shannon Rowan. Shannon, it's wonderful to meet you. And I'm really looking forward to talking to you. So thank you for being here with us today. Meet you Seth. I'm so excited to be on the show today. Thank you. And I have to also, before we jump in, just thank John Hamer, who I interviewed, who's the brilliant author and researcher, the falsification, history, falsification of science. Huge volumes and a lot more. You've co-authored author to book with as well. And he was the person that helped make this connection. So if John's watching, thank you, John. Thanks, John. So you've got a very interesting story. And there is a lot that we're going to be talking about.

4:06But I think it's all going to fit under the umbrella of technology and how technology is changing mankind. How technology is harming and ultimately controlling mankind, which is a very appropriate discussion to be having right now. But you live a very idealistic life for a lot of us. Where we think about, we'd love to live this life where we're just truly off-grid, not tied to a cell phone, not tied to social media, not tied to the internet. And most people never come close to doing that, but you've done it. So how about we start there and just take a look at a little bit of your story and what's brought you to where you are now? Sure. Yeah, I was forced into it, but I'm happy now that it happened. It was a really tough time, several years of trying to navigate those and figure out what to do. Luckily, I have a really supportive partner who's been with me the whole time, which is not what most people have. But basically, it was 2014. When I became what is known as electro, they keep changing the name, but electro-imagnetic,

5:11sensitivity, electro-hyper-sensitive. But anything to make it sound like I'm the problem, I have a weird sensitivity. It's some freak thing. It's not the technology. It's basically poisoning from exposures to technology, the wireless in particular, where for me, my body became reactive to it where it's an allergic reaction. Any kind of environmental poison, if you have enough of it, we can understand this with chemical, and I became chemically sensitive. They also say multiple chemical sensitivity. MCS, right? Because you're just sensitive to poison. I'm sensitive to poison. Go figure. I don't think so. What's wrong with you? I know. And over the years, I started feeling like maybe the upgrade, like this, you know, you're tampering with human, trying to modify us clearly, you know, modify nature and change it. So it's something that can be more in their control.

6:13So it's like, I feel like the upgrades or whatever, just not taking, you know, my body's like, no, right? It wants to stay natural. So anyway, I just, I went through, you know, not being able to use my cell phone anymore. I had a smartphone. I just like had it. I was kind of a holdout just because of the expense, not really any other reason, you know, like when it became more affordable, I got one, but I didn't really have any objections to them at the time. And I was all excited about getting it, actually, you know, so I'm not like going to, I'm not here to like judge everybody and be like, how dare you, you know, you're using this stuff. I mean, I get it. Like I was totally using it. And I never had Wi-Fi, though I had a cable just because I like, you know, I didn't need the Wi-Fi with what I was using for my computer and everything. My neighbors had it and I didn't know they had the router right under my bed, basically, like under, you know, they had up on a shelf, like under my bed for a long time. And I was having insomnia unexplained. Smart meters had gone in the house without my knowledge, you know, and, and like, so there was that happening. And so all this was happening at once.

7:144G rolled out. So I don't know which one of those things, but the culmination of this, because it is, since this happened, I started researching like heavily and I found out, found all the studies, thousands and thousands and thousands of studies mostly conducted by our military for weapons research, you know, to see the biological and like psychological emotional effects of radio frequency, right? And this is because there are biological effects. And, you know, to say there aren't is just like just false, okay, there are because, because we operate with like electrical signaling in our brains and our hearts and our bodies and our cells, you know, this is all cellular signaling, cellular phones, you know, so, you know, cell phones, like this is why I think they're called this. It's like operating on that cellular level. So anybody can be affected. Everybody is affected. So I often like people are like, well, you know, you, why am I not affected? Because I don't feel it. You think you're not feeling it, but you are affected because it alters biology because it's a non-native, non-native frequencies.

8:17Like so the earth has, and nature have frequencies that we're in tune with, that we resonate with, that we, you know, function well, that's what we feel good. And we feel really good. We don't feel as good in nature now because nature now has cell towers, you know, campgrounds have Wi-Fi. So like going into nature doesn't feel like it used to, but as we like, you know, slowly are boiled in the frog pot, it's my one of the analogies I use, we don't notice as much anymore. So we like the new normal of health and how we feel all changes because our environment changes. And I think it's intentional. I mean, I, you know, hey, just sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'll, you know, it's intentional because the intent has to be there when there's knowledge of the harm and knowledge of like decades ago and a lot of research into a lot of money into it and then deciding on certain frequencies to use when you roll out communications tech to the public and you use frequencies that you know or do certain things in particular, affecting

9:19the brain and causing, you know, brain fog, so called and like cognitive dysfunction and, you know, basically like a zombification effect, right? It's like you're, it's like putting fluoride in the water and knowing that fluoride, you know, causes desolity. And so does Wi-Fi, right? Wi-Fi causes desolity, also causes infertility. So everybody's a fact it. And I remember a friend's of mine who used more tech than me who had, I had, like I was in photogrenalism for a long time, but I got now a bit when my, my friend stayed in it and I was doing other, I had another business and so they were like, and I was in Washington, DC. So they were, I had one friend with like two, first person I ever met with two smartphones, right? And I like, now there's lots of people with lots of difference. They're like holding, if I have four smartphones on them, I don't know, different business lines or whatever and they're, you know, constantly. And she had crazy memory problems. She didn't know why. She was just like having short-term memory loss and brain fog and like it was really upsetting to her and none of us could figure out why we didn't know why.

10:21But now I know why, definitely from the cell phones, like no doubt. So for me, it was like, it became a blessing in disguise that my use of tech was clearly hurting me. Like I could feel the pain. I still feel the pain if I get anywhere near these things. I feel it. That has not gone away. I've been able to find ways of managing that better and I, you know, and a little bit more tolerant to it because I've mostly spent my time away from it as much as I can. So avoidance practice has really helped me recover from a lot of this injury. So there's definitely was an injury and then the injury response and then going, what do I do? Because this is everywhere and I'm in the soup of it, you know, and DC was one of the worst places I found out I could do with in terms of EMF exposure. Like they call it the most, when the most electrically, you know, polluted cities out there, like, yeah, I'm not polluted. So my partner and I first decided it would just move outside the city and then we realized there was cell tower every half mile and, you know, it just hadn't seen how, we just hadn't

11:24hadn't noticed how quickly this all sprung up everywhere until I was looking for it. And then it was like, we landed about west and we moved to Arizona first in the desert where nobody wants to live because it's horrible, horrible weather. And like the desert wants to kill you. It feels like it's like, you know, every kind of bush and plant and everything is like trying to kill you. And I, you know, but it felt so much better there. And I did do a lot of recovery until the smart grid reached us and we had to leave, again, we tried to fight that and it was the utility company forcing that on us. And then we had no, none of that before we moved there. And then also big power lines coming in. Now there's a pipeline. I mean, that whole place is completely being destroyed. And it was a beautiful, beautiful area, like tons of wildlife. And so now we're out like at the farther west and, you know, the mountains and off grid and we're, or northern California. So off grid, meaning no electricity, I have, I have electricity I'm using right now.

12:27There's a light and I have the laptop powered, but I have a battery pack that I can even show viewers or you want to see because it's, oh yeah. Well, this is fascinating to me. So, oh, we do this. So this is a, oh, it's going to turn off my lights. I just jostled a little bit. Jackery makes these battery packs that you could power on a solar panel or from the grid power somewhere or in your car. So you've got these different options for powering them and they hold it, then they power other things, right? So, so we have a few of them. We have a solar panel. And so in the summer, it's great. With lots of sun, it's really easy to keep them charged. We'll winter a different story. Often we have to like run the car for a while. I know what the fact is. So you don't, sorry, and you mentioned right now before we started recording that you're in a, in a, in a different location. You're more of a trailer that you use for work where you have the internet. So, but your main living, you don't have electricity.

13:27No, no electricity, no, no internet either, which is the best. So when you mentioned I'm living the light, okay, so let's get into this because it is kind of idealistic. We're in the woods where there's forest land around. It did, we did have to deal with fires almost destroying everything and it destroyed a lot of forest a few years ago. It was a beautiful forest before that. It's been really heartbreaking and that's a whole other story. But we are still here. We're care taking property. We don't own it. It's a huge property though and we have a lot of privacy and we don't, the internet doesn't even like reach to us yet. I mean, I don't know. I don't even want to know now with Starlink. It might, and I don't want to even bring it there. We decide it even if it could have it in the house. We don't want it. And this gets, this is beyond the EMF harm. So the EMF harm, you know, started change, started changing our lifestyle gradually, kind of dramatically in a way for a while. I remember that first month in Arizona feeling completely socially isolated and kind of crazy.

14:29Like it was really weird for me to like suddenly not being in the city and have all those communities and see people all the time. And anyway, then now it's like gradually, you know, we got used to certain things. I mean, we don't have AC, we don't, we don't need AC, but we don't have a, you know, central heating, we have a wood stove and we, we have to prepare firewood all year. I mean, that's like the job. The job, like you could, yeah, they're wooding you. And for a while, we didn't even have indoor plumbing. We were getting water from the creek. I mean, that was kind of crazy times. But how do you, do you have a fridge of any kind or do you have a, like a spring, spring, what do you call it? A spring box? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I want ice box. I was going to, we were going to try to do fine. We're still looking for ice box. We use coolers in the winter. We just have the food in the cooler outside. It's cold enough. It's a fridge, it's like fridge temp, you know, and it's fine. And some are we have to buy ice. That's kind of going.

15:29There is a part of the property we get to use that has a fridge, part of the, part of the year when the owners aren't here. So they have their part, they have more, they have solar too, but they have more power than we do, right? So they have a free robust system. But that brings into other problems, it has an inverter. The inverter causes dirty electricity. I know a lot of people living off-grid that have, are getting a lot of harm from their EMF exposures because these inverters are worse than living on grid in terms of your EMF exposure. And, and dirty electricity is another problem. And it's a huge problem and it really affects people. And I noticed some of my off-grid friends that get these effects and I'm trying to tell them like you're, you know, look at this. And they're also using Wi-Fi. And they're, they have all these trappings of like the go off grid and they'll be out in nature. But then they're stuck with like the internet everywhere all the time. And the Wi-Fi exposure is in the EMF exposure. So they're not really getting away from it. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? Of course you would, anyone would. So why aren't you buying silver right now?

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17:32a one-tenth ounce of gold coin just as a thank you when you open a new qualified account. So again, that's goldwithseth.com. I still fantasize about completely getting out of the internet even though I'm using it now, obviously to promote my book. It's kind of ironic. I mean, I'm like, have these books where I'm like, hey, this is bad for you, but here I'm using it to try to get you to read my book. I'd like to follow more. I honestly, because I didn't realize, so what I want to talk about is that I didn't realize that I understood the EMF harm. Then it was all about just plugging into internet, getting it hardwired, so it's safer. But I didn't understand the problems of the internet itself in terms of just addiction and just addiction, right? And what that does and what's doing socially and what it does to our brains and our happiness level and productivity and not living the dream and wasting our time.

18:37I mean, not wasting your time for watching this though. Yes, if you can watch this show, you can go in and order the book. Yeah, but that's it. But again, I understand, like, we're all hypocrites in some level here, but we're trying and we're trying to use it as a tool. But I did end up writing about, anyway, I don't know. Maybe we'll have more questions about how we live first, but it's like, basically, you can do this. And everybody's talking about energy crisis, so we have to get more energy somehow. I'm like, no, you can use a lot less, like a lot less. And as they're saying this, they want us to use all these more electronics and digital everything and smart everything to save the planet. Like, we need more energy for that to save the planet. It's just all crazy. It's like, no, we could just back off and roll back and live more simply and be happier. But what I've noticed in terms of having these strict boundaries around the internet because I go up the road like half a mile to travel, set it up and, you know, turn it on and turn

19:42to then turn it off again and power it. Like I have to think about my energy usage all the time because I have to come up with that. And I think that's what we're doing. That they would completely cut back on their use. You know, if they had to be responsible for it. But this is more like direct living, like directly like growing food. We grow a lot of food. You know, I've learned to like, knit, I've learned to sew things. We've learned to build things. Like all of this is forced us into this lifestyle where we like do a lot of things ourselves that, you know, it's very inconvenient in a way, but it's also really fulfilling. And it is idealistic in a lot of ways. And it is beautiful. And I get to spend all this time in nature and I don't have noisy neighbors and airplane, you know, like a lot of machine noises that most people live with. But the internet, days I have to go online, it just, it's, it's ruined, it kind of can ruin my day, you know, it's just not just that it's inconvenient to go and get online. It's the, what it does to me. But now I realize like often we can't realize things until we step back from them and do

20:44something else, right? We wouldn't realize it until you get away from it. So it was this learning like getting away from it more and having less time online that I started to see how much being online affects me like in terms of my well being emotional well being. And then I learned I also got into researching addiction in particular after all the other research I did. And to other topics, because I noticed that people didn't really want to hear that EMF's harm them. Like you could tell them, you could show them mountains of research. I can prove to you. It's the truth. This is true. And they just, you just kind of cognitive dissonance, you know, like, it's almost like telling, you know, someone who's been drinking Coca-Cola for 20 years, and you're telling them, or using a microwave, right? It's like you tell, like that's actually really bad for you to use that microwave. And they just don't really want to hear it because there's, it's so ingrained in their, in their behavior and their habits. Yeah, it's addiction. It's like because, because you're addicted, that's why you don't want to hear it because you don't want to change that habit because you understand some level, you know, that

21:47it's going to be really painful for you to stop doing that thing because you're so dependent. Right? And there is another dependency. It's been really interesting or sneaky or, you know, diabolical that, you know, our, our, all these technologies now have, we become dependent on as a society in terms of the, like, social, the structure of everything of, of the, how we do everything, commerce and socializing and travel and everything. And so there's a different kind of dependency that isn't really, isn't about addiction so much, right? It's like we're forced dependency, but there is the addictive aspect of that. So we're not given other options, like more and more, we're not given other options. We can't even, with this whole internet of things, craziness, right? Like we can't even, we were trying to buy another battery for our, this is our power, right? And, and, and I can tolerate being around these batteries, which is huge plus, like the EMF is like non-issue for me. And other types we wanted to get that was like they would be better in some way or whatever

22:52had wireless in them because so you can control it with your phone and you can't turn it off. And it's just like, is that going to be like, I mean, at some point I'm expecting it. It's very probable that I won't be able to find a simple battery. There goes my light because I knocked it again. There we go. Right when I put, we're not going to be able to find basic things we need that don't have wireless. No, it's like everything is smart now. I mean, even when we were renovating our kitchen, we had to, we had to find older, you know, we did for various reasons. We found older and older fridge and an older stove, second hand on Facebook marketplace because they weren't smart. And they're just, and they're very simple. And it's interesting because as you're talking, it brings me back to something I'd read. It was one of those profound things I had read, especially at that time in my life back I read back in college, which was the Udibomba Manifesto, right? And the Udibomba Manifesto, a little bit of word salad there.

23:54That was such a profound thing to read. And what I remember him saying in that, what I recall from it, was basically it's like what you're describing is that when new technology comes out, at first it is a luxury, it is only a certain classic and access it. And it's a convenience and as more people become, it becomes accessible to more people, then more people can use it. But then eventually it reaches a place where the people that don't have that new technology get left out of society. And he was talking about when cars came, right? You know, when cars first came, it was the, you know, the wealthier people that could afford to have a car, they drove it, then it became more acceptable. Most will still use horses. But then after a point, it was, if you didn't have a car, you couldn't exist in society. You couldn't drive a horse down a highway. It's the same thing with the internet, that you know, same thing with cell phones, same things with computers, an email that now if you don't have those things in so many ways, it's like you're penalized and you can't even participate in society unless you use

24:57this new technology. And anyway, I'm not sure if you've read it, but it was a really profound one. Yeah, I've read a lot. And I know, of course we're not condoning his actions, right? I agree. But yeah, but that's why people don't read that. Because like, I mean, you know, we know the story and it's like, oh, you can't read that. That's sort of like, someone's like reading something Hitler wrote or something, right? You don't read it. But no, it's like, he understood what was going on. And so did the Luddites, you know, the Luddites and people don't even know what that means or the history of that. But I explained that in my recent book. The Luddites were reacting to the machines when they came in and took over their jobs like in terms of the weaving textile industry, so weaving and knitting. It's funny to think of like knitters come up in arms, you know, knitters and weavers like actually like guerrilla warfare, like going after, you know, like having these like, like a, you know, violence behavior.

25:57But they were the machine break. They were breaking the machines and they were even people died and, you know, they were because they understood that their livelihood, not just their livelihoods were threatened. But that was a big deal because it wasn't like they had some other job they could just do. They could just do another job. You know, this was about survival and feeding your family. But they understood the profound effect of the cultural shift and change that that would then entail, right? So going away from this hand, like making things by hand and having machines make them. So and the thing is we think of this as like, well, why would you want to do that? Actually I am a knitter now and it's a joyful thing to participate in, you know, like it's it feels good to make things yourself and do these things. Like we don't need to, I mean, there's times and machines can like alleviate, you know, kind of tedious tasks and, you know, that's one thing. We should always be considering the trade off because there's always a trade off. Even like having a dishwasher is a trade off and in a washing machine for your clothes

26:59because you're not physically moving in those ways anymore. So like physical movements are important because we're meant to move our bodies. We need to move and we've started to kind of forgotten that. Like we think we don't need to move, but clearly we do and look around and see how sick people are. The obesity and the disease like you're not moving simply most of it's because they're just not moving. They're hardly moving. You're going to age faster, you're going to die sooner, you know, but you're also not going to enjoy and your body's going to hurt more like you get atrophy and it's painful to sit for a long period of time. But we've gotten used to this. So we're and we've allowed like the machine to now dictate so many things to play. But you're saying we're getting closed out of society. I'm noticing that increasingly having not just a cell phone or something that can get a text message on for the verifications, you know, two step verifications, you need specifically, you need a cell phone or a specifically, you need a smartphone for QR

27:59code. I have several things, so many ways I can't do online commerce because I don't have that. And I can't or I have to have an app onto the phone. I can't use the app on the computer. You know, I can't just use a computer for the internet anymore. I also have to have a smartphone and I know, no, I have a boy phone, like an internet phone because that's, I don't have a landline out here. And it knows there's some platforms that know it's a boy and they won't send it even though I can receive texts. That's not okay for them. It has to be a smartphone. Why? You know, again, why unless there's some malicious intent? I mean, there has to be malicious intent, you know, and that's unfortunately what you come back to people don't like to think that way. They don't like to believe that there's, there are monsters in the world, you know, especially the ruling things and charge, but there are, you know, and that's the reality is like there are really bad evil people and their held up as heroes and, you know, that we're supposed to worship along with their tech.

29:01And technology, by the way, means knowledge of the gods, that word. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Of their gods, I guess, certain kinds of gods that, right, that they have knowledge from well, it's, it's, you know, and I love getting into these types of discussions because I, again, as we kind of discussed before, we started recording, we both went to art school and we both, I think, have a very creative, obviously, you know, creative genes and creative makeup. And that's, you know, that's my happiest place is that whether I, you know, I don't do as much anymore, but if I can do woodworking or wood carving or pottery, you know, anything like that or even as building some garden beds, something that I get to construct and I get to, I get to create. And, and to me, that's almost like not to compare myself to God, but it's like we have this little kind of piece of what would feel like to be a creator, right, where we can take an idea and turn it into something with our hands, whether it's a painting or a new piece of furniture. And, but, so I really enjoy the more philosophical discussions of, like, the broader picture of

30:08where are we at as a culture and, you know, thinking as you're talking and, you know, I think, you know, the internet sort of really take hold probably around 30 years ago or so coming into the late 90s, I'm heading into, you know, Y2K, because I remember, you know, my dad had a home computer when he worked and it was a really big deal. And I was like, why, he has this email thing and we had, at that time, it was like, in cyclic, in cyclic pediatricianica, we had one of the little discs you could put in and you could use that. It was just this amazing thing. But if you think about even life 30 or 40 years ago, it was so much more simple. And now you're at a place where you feel like you couldn't exist without these things. What's up? Well, how did we survive 40 years ago? I mean, let alone before cell phones, right? You know, you just would call and leave a message on someone's answering machine and, you know, they, or they would call you or you'd go by a pay phone at the gas station if you had to let someone know when you're going to be somewhere. And you think, gosh, how would life exist in that way? Yet, I actually think that, you know, fundamentally, I think if you look at, you know, what's

31:13happening, I think that what we know what this is is that we're being pushed, we're being moved into transhumanism and ultimately technocracy. And I think that that has been the design from the outset. I think that, you know, and again, if you look at the origins of the internet, you know, this DARPA, ARPA, if you look in the origins of a lot of the big tech companies, they, they all oftentimes point back to seed funding from NASA, from InQTELV, you know, CIA through, you know, DARPA, you know, DOD projects. And when you kind of piece it all together and then you look at people like Elon Musk and his grandfather, you know, technocrat and you didn't look at some of the things that he's saying, you look at Curtis Yarvan and you kind of piece it all together and then you look at what's happening under the Trump administration and the rollout and like, wow, why is it all sudden these data centers are popping up everywhere and these flock cameras. There's 100,000 of them plus now that you know, you can, it's like a hydra, you could take down one flock camera with a saw zone, 10 more pop up, right, or 10 more axon cameras

32:16come into replace it. And I do think that, you know, I tend to kind of get into thinking of like the bigger picture that can be territorial. It's like, there's no way this is just accidental. There's no way this is just the natural development of humankind. I think it's absolutely, it is a, we're being funneled into a technocratic system. And while I wish that we could all do what you've done and just kind of become lullites and kind of attack the grid and reject it and to get off of that, it's unfortunately for most people, they'll never do it. You know, if they want to. It's just, it's, you know, even getting rid of a smartphone and moving to a dumb phone is difficult for most people to do. Well, we can't even, I haven't even succeeded. That's what I want to say. It's like, I still have to go online and almost every day and almost for a couple of hours, you know, and I, and I resent it more and more because I know what my day, my, my days where I don't go online, the comparison between the two, it's, and I want to get it into

33:17why. But you're right, the absolute, if you look at like who's behind all this and you can, and you can research this and I have, and I spell it out in my books all the time and name, names, you know, but also if you get beyond even the, what you mentioned, I don't know if you're familiar with cybernetics and cyberneticians, but they, cyberspace, it's called cyberspace. The cyber means to steer in Greek. And they called it, they saw themselves as steering mankind and leading that way. And what they decided was that we, they would create, they realized that we're so dependent on our environment in terms of our behavior and mood and everything that if they could just alter the environment, they could alter humans and control us. So that's why it became this like, let's make a new grid. Let's make a new, they actually said matrix will make a new matrix. So there's this natural matrix will make a new one. And that way we can control everything. It means it just comes from the psychopathic like need to control everything, right?

34:19And so we're stuck inside of this. And yeah, we don't even have, there's no payphones anymore. Like there's no option, right? So it's taken away. And we're getting a really dangerous territory with AI now and all the possible horrible things that that offers, even though people, a lot of people just see it as a new fun tool. And it isn't. And they're not thinking through and thinking about the bigger picture and where this is going and how quickly it's going there. And interestingly, as I published this book, The Red Shoes last year, I just, I kind of toward the end get into AI. Thank you. And what, you know, the danger of that and where we're going with it. And soon after that, everybody was suddenly, it was AI, it was everything. It exploded. And I just kind of got, you know, so it's a type of iceberg. I was kind of predicting some, some of the, what's happening. But I think once, like you said, we need to create, I think some of us maybe run the others. We have that urge. But I think everybody on some level, because besides like the fine arts and things you get

35:21into just baking or cooking or any kind of act like that is an act of creation. And when you allow the machine to do the creative things for you, which we're allowing like AI to do, then I think humans start to feel like they don't matter anymore. And that's what the internet's been kind of feeding us those messages anyway for a long time. Television has for a long time. Like the humans are like that. Like where we, we have these emotions that are like problematic, you know, it's like from this alien perspective, if you think of the body, snatched at movies and how the human, the aliens that came in and, you know, took over were like, well, because human, they were like human emotions are a problem, you know, they're messy. We don't have those, we don't have those problems now. We don't have emotions. So it's great, you know? And I think that's what we're seeing with like AI and transhumanism and the people, or it's so called people behind all this, like don't they think those are bad emotions to have like the, they see us as weak like have, and I see that as a strength like compassion,

36:24our finer qualities, our compassion and love and empathy. And those are the things under attack and those are the things that were kind of being told make us weak or like, you know, that we need, or even just the need to create the need to, you know, things that we talk about that make us happy like as a weakness. You know, so we're starting to feel like we're not important and we don't matter and that's really damaging psychologically, but it paves the way for transhumanism for like thinking in the machines, better thinking AI is better. And if we just hooked up to it and got the telepathy, you know, neural link, then we would be enhanced like, you know, this idea that we can be enhanced by these things, even like when you start with simple things like hip replacements and things, we already start to look at sciences like better and as the new God and can repair us and fix us and we could just get a new part. We can get a, you know, we can replace our hearts and soon now they're going to be growing things like creepily like bio, what it's called, sin bio, tack, you know, we're, so

37:26they're going to grow hearts for us. I don't know, you know, it's just like and grow us in like, you know, there's crazy people like Ray Kurzweil who's really psychotic who wrote the singularity is near quite a while ago. And I unfortunately, I do own a copy because I wanted to see what he wrote and it's just like really crazy and horrifying, but he's saying, you know, eventually we won't need things like hearts. Like we won't need a skeleton. We can just grow all these things. It can be, you know, better and or we won't need bodies. We could be a hologram because they don't seem to understand what like a, they don't understand what like a human soul is or it's just like foreign idea to them. They think you can like, it's just your brain and your brain function and if they could you know, copy that and they're already copying. I mean, there's so much money going again, who's funding? What's, where is the funding and go to? This is not a natural evolutionary thing happening. This is orchestrated. It's funded and you know, billions of dollars going into copying digital, making digital

38:30twins of human brains and then putting it in a machine and like, you know, to, it's just beyond like the craziest sci-fi stuff we grew up, you know, hearing it watching. And of course, that's another level of like grooming us and prepping us for what's to come. But I want to explain why I titled the book, The Red Shoes. Yeah, I wanted to ask you that. Yeah, because that's a really important part of this. So, um, the story of The Red Shoes is, uh, you know, people know it usually from Hans Christian Anderson, who's 1700s, but I have a different, a little bit of a different telling of it that I present in the book, um, the first chapter. But it's basically, um, so there's a girl, she's an orphan and she living by herself in the woods, but she's pretty happy overall and she's like, she's got her hand made life. Like she's doing everything herself. A lot of things like we do out here ourselves, you know, but she even, she made her own shoes and she made her shoes. They were red, um, but they were kind of like crude, you know, scraps of leather or something.

39:34And she was happy. She was really excited about them. Yeah, there was one picture right there. So she like made these shoes and she was like, you know, proud of them, even though they were crude. And, but you know, one day this gilded carriage came up, she's all the symbolism. So it's a gilded carriage pulls up and there's this wealthy old part blind woman in it who says, oh, look at you poor thing. Like let me take you home and take care of you. She has all this money. You won't have to work anymore. And this is where we're vulnerable. Like we feel often life is hard like if you're chopping whatever day and everything. Like it's, it's an easy place to attack us. It's a weak, you know, vulnerability where you're just tired. Sometimes you want something else somebody to do it for you. Right. And this is not so many levels, not just like, you know, just even emotional work, like just work in general, right? It's like something could do it for you. Wouldn't that be great? So she, she has a moment of weakness. She says, okay, like, yeah, I'll go with you. But the minute she steps into that gilded carriage, carriage, which is like a cage, you know,

40:35it's a gilded cage like you're in a cage, right? She steps into the cage. She's taken away. The first thing that happens is the woman like she changes her, gets her other clothes, you know, that she says they're better, but she burns her other clothes. She burns her shoes that she had made herself, right? And so that hurt her. That was her first, like the first attack against her in that sense, like her soul self. And she was, you know, and it started the resentment, but she's like, oh, okay. She didn't ask her. She's like, oh, they're horrible. Like, just burn them. Right. Why would you want that? You know, and so, um, so she's, kind of made us sit there and be quiet and look pretty and not do anything. So she's isolated. She stuck in this house. It's, you know, again, it's a cage. It's a nice looking cage, but she's in there. She's not doing anything over her own anymore. She's not in charge of her life anymore. Somebody else's. Um, and then so she's getting like restless. She's not feeling fulfilled, even though she's that well fed and she's well clothed. Um, and apparently her needs are taken care of, you know, something's missing.

41:37And so she goes to, um, it's her communion or something at church and they go to get new shoes together and they go to the shoemaker. And um, the shoemaker is like, it's interesting. The characters is a lot of male older male figures that are like groomers, right? That are like and she kind of like helping to deceive the woman who's sort of like symbol of her intuition, but she's part blind. So her intuition is damaged, you know, like her, her instincts are damaged. So she's with that damaged instinct is like falling for the groom ring, you know, that where the man is like, yeah, get these shoes like they're, these are, they're red too. Cause they're minor, what she's the one she made, but they're like really shiny and like, and she's like, can't get these things like winking at her. But the man himself is like a cripple like the shoemaker is, is like, he's an addict, like trying to get push the drug on another addict. And he's damaged by already, you know, so she's allowing this damaged man to like tell her what to do. Because she had doesn't have her instincts intact, right? So she's puts the shoes on and she feels better at first, you know, like, oh, yeah, like this is what I need, like what I'm missing.

42:46And she goes to church and these red shoes and it's like a scandal. At first, everybody notices like they're like, oh, look at the red shoes. That's crazy. Like nobody wears like shiny red shoes to church, especially. And then the woman had noticed because she's like part blind. So she's like, oh, wow, what did you do? Like, okay, no, like you can't do that again. She puts them away somewhere. But she didn't get rid of them, but she like puts them hide some, but then the girl finds she wants them to get me. She puts them on again. And then again, to wears the matured. And this time, at over time, like the church people don't notice anymore and don't really help, nobody's really helping. They let it happen, you know, they're seeing something and they, but they don't like intervene really. And then there's this red bearded man, so like a devil figure who's also like a wounded soldier, which is interesting outside the church. And he says like tells the shoes to dance. He goes, oh, those are such nice dancing shoes. And then he plays a little music and she starts dancing. And at first, that's really fun. And then it's like, doesn't feel like she likes dancing and then, but then over time. So what happens over time, it takes the whole time.

43:47It's not immediate. She'll take them off and then she'll put them back on. And then they start to dance her. And she's not in control of them. And at first, that's exciting too, until she can't take them off. And she's still dancing. And so for then, she's dancing so much that she's, dances, did shoes take her through the forest. She's gone for like a week or so she can't eat. She hasn't slept, you know, she's going to die like because these shoes. And she meets another man, an executioner, living in the woods. He has his executioner's axe. She asks him to cut the shoes off for her, but it doesn't work. And so then she's just like, cut my feet off because I, you know, I'm going to die. I can't, he cuts her feet off. So then she's a cripple, she lives, but she doesn't have any feet and she's a cripple and she has to beg for the rest of her life. So that's brutal, you know, fairy tales. Yeah. It's like the old fairy tales were like that. They, they, I was actually just talking to a buddy of mine yesterday who said,

44:49I think that when CS Lewis and, and Tolkien went and they watched Snow White together and they were commenting on it and they, and they, they both hated Disney and I, Tolkien, especially taught about how he hated how Disney made everything so kind of simple and cartoony and fun and everything, but actually the old, the old stories, they told the children these stories, right? The, the, the Grims fairy tales, Hans Christian Don Anderson. And they were very harsh stories oftentimes. And so children were exposed at a young age, but I think it was also, we now have this huge problem of doing that, of doing that, of lessons, right, where people aren't, you know, accessing that. But that's a side point. Ladies and gentlemen, our world is being poisoned. Every day we're exposed to more chemicals sprayed into our skies, leaching into our food, and polluting our air and water from pesticides and heavy metals to hormone disruptors and synthetic additives. These toxins are bombarding our bodies and silently destroying our health. But there's something you can do to fight back and it starts in your gut.

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46:53And their educated staff will make sure that kimchi 1 is right for you. Again, that's 888-575-6488. All the links and information are in the description below. Am I right in understanding that you're using that story, that metaphor as the metaphor for technology, right? With it, that the technology, the iPhone, the laptop, the smart TV, these are the red shoes, right? That at first they're very fun, but then they actually start controlling us. And the only way to get rid of them is to kind of cut them out of ourselves. Yeah, and what's so interesting too, the stories I found of tech addiction and how brutal it's been, you know, for people, and I mean, there was actually, there were cases of boys losing their legs. There was one to gamers, gamers thrombosis. It's a name for that, yeah, clinically, because it's happening enough. So just the act of like sitting for still for so long while gaming has led to thrombosis

47:53and young people, their 11 year old boy has his leg amputated from gaming. So real amputations happening actually from the tech use, like not even that far from this story at all. But also because, yeah, we're trading this like handmade life that we're in control of in giving over to technology, which is basically using us and going to harm us, you know, and so and it is. It's like, and we argue it's a tool of convenience, but how convenient is it to be sick, disabled or dead? That's what I keep saying. How is that convenient really? It's not convenient what we're dealing with. And if anything, it's like the internet is designed in our technologies designed to waste our time. And it, I mean, it is designed to waste your time. It's designed to get you using longer, using, enhancing, increasing user engagement, as it's called at any cost. And often it's like these downward, these spirals they call it feeding the spiral is what

48:53meta employees would call it feeding the spiral. So they know it's a downward spiral kind of feedback loop of, you know, infinite scrolling through negative like, you know, stuff that's like harming kids, especially harming teens. And like I said, there's this arrest development kind of with where are and I actually tell the story of blue beard in the book too, which is another good one that to explain about our injured instincts that's getting us into this trap and kids are like at one hand, they're exposed to all this crazy adult content that's really horrifying. It's horrifying for us and they definitely shouldn't be seeing it, you know, but and but they're still naive and they're not, they don't have their instincts intact. So they're really getting their prime like prey for, you know, pedophiles and other psychopaths like through their being groomed and they're being victimized, you know, increasingly. And so we're not safer. So this whole survey idea that technology is making us safer and surveillance is safer,

49:57isn't it true? Because the people designing it are the ones who want to harm us. So they make it so that they can do that more easily and pretend that somehow they're making us safer. And so they don't, I mean, all these controls that could have been on all these social media platforms long ago aren't, they haven't used them, you know, instead they say, oh, instead they punish the rest of us, they say, oh, protect the kids that they could have been protecting and they're not. Then it's like, we need to verify your age. We need to know who you are. You need to use your thumbprint. So we really know who you are. You need to scan your retina. So we really know who you are to keep all the kids safe. You know, and it's like, that's not keeping, it won't ever do it because you're not getting at the real criminals. And there's still, and there's just more and more of them. And even the internet, Indian, this like access to all this horrific imagery and content is creating like more monsters, you know, more pedophiles, more, you know, perpetrators.

50:59So we're not better off. Like I want people to step back and ask these questions like, how much of a trade off has there been? And are we doing better now? Is our, to me, like the measure of like how our society is doing like, are our children safe? That's a big one, you know, no, are women safe? No, you know, are like, are we happy? Are we healthy? Are we fulfilled? No, no, no, no, right? And it's like, it's techno, and the funny thing is we're still have this mindset that we just need more technology to save us from the harm's technology caused. Instead of like, we know we need to take responsibility and take our lives back from this and stop being the slave to the tool, you know, and put tools in their proper place. And smart, and if it says smart on it, then it's not going to be the tool that you have control over, you know, that's just kind of how it is. But yeah, I mean, I really, you know, it's just, it's been really like interesting for

52:04me to see, like I said, at my own addiction, like my own unhealthy relationship with text I'm not here to try to judge everybody and say somehow I'm better. I'm just as, I mean, like even if I spend less time, I mean, spending less time with it makes me see it more easily. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm still somehow stuck with this. And I still get stuck in the traps, like when I'm online, like that I, you know, I mean, recognizing it is one thing, you know, and that's helpful. But I'm not totally free of it. I still have the shoes on. Maybe they're not dancing me as hard or as far as fast as other people. But, and that's the other thing. There is technology of virtual, when you get into virtual reality and all that, that where you can actually put on these shoes that dance you, you know, like I mean, there's actually, even without the shoes, there's like, there was some technology already 10 years old that can make you dance, right, like with radio frequency.

53:07And this was stuff that they were experimenting with in the 40s and 50s. Like, you know, even as far back as like first experiments with electricity making frog muscles twitch, you know, I mean, we, like, it can be used to, to move your body. Like involuntary body, bodily movements, right? I mean, this happens. So, yeah, it's, it's like, I just thought I was really apt metaphor in a way of trying to like get us to think about this differently and myself to think about it. So I explore like all the harm, different kinds of harm. So like, yeah, children, I do have chapter really disturbing on children being harmed because of, you know, predators and accessing them. Because I think it's important for us to know how this works and how they do this, how easy it is for them to do it, pretend to be somebody on social media. They're not, you know, and then range to meet. I mean, that's the typical thing that happens. But then your kids go missing. Sometimes forever, it's just, it's a nightmare.

54:08I mean, I could not imagine being a parent. And I mean, that's the worst fear, right? As the worst possible thing in like the fact that, that like, less than 1% of the budget goes to finding missing kids for policing, less than 1%. Well, I mean, where are our priorities? How is that possible that that's, there's no money put into this to help to find kids? Like, it's just unbelievable, really. So yeah, I don't know if you want to comment on any of that. Oh, no, I'm just, there's just a lot of things I'm thinking. I obviously, you know, you're kind of listening and putting ourselves into your shoes and this or your shoes versus putting it down. Putting your red shoes on. Yeah. And just seeing this and what I'm thinking, you know, because so there's the boiling of the frog analogy, which you used. And but also in how that relates to your sensitivity. So my wife is, she is very chemically sensitive, also sensitive to electricity and those things as well.

55:08Much more the chemical thing like if we, if like, if we go stay in an Airbnb, we have to bring our own sheets because if they use any kind of chemical fragrance, she will have a coughing fit like she can't, you know, she just can't deal with it. And it kind of exists there if we walk into a restaurant, if they've got a little for breeze, air freshener, I'll actually walk up and pull it out, right? Yeah. Yeah. Or we'll have to go somewhere else. And it seems like, oh, well, maybe she has a weak immune system or there's weaknesses, but actually, it's, I actually think that what's like, why would you consider that a weakness if her, if the, if her body is much more quick to tell her that you're near a poison? Why is that a weakness? And I think that it's because, well, there's various reasons maybe in her case, but I think in general that somewhere the boiling of the frog that because we were, maybe us were born into this technology and we've been around it so much, you know, the human body is amazingly resilient.

56:09And in the same way that if I moved to Africa in a couple of years, you'd look at me and I'd be very dark in my complexion because my body would be reacting to its environment and, and, and changing its my own biology to make sure I can sustain that. I think that we've adapted to this modern world, but I imagine what if we took somebody from say 1900 and we brought them to our world, they would, they probably would die in a couple of years from everything that's happening. And I think so for a lot of us, we just don't realize that we're in the boiling water, basically. It doesn't, it doesn't mean there's no boiling water because we don't feel it. It just because we're not aware of it and because we're conditioned to it. And that's a, that's not a good place to be, I mean, to put it very lightly. Yeah, your defense is at your right. I mean, some, some researchers and scientists see it as a good thing like your wife and what I experience where it's like actually a normal biological response. Everybody else is abnormal.

57:10Ali O'Henson, who's a, um, UMF researcher, who's a scientist, who's been doing, you know, decades of research into the season that way. He sees it as everybody else is the having the problem. They're having abnormal response. Like they're not, they're desensitized. You know, is it, am I a sense, am I too sensitive or are you desensitized kind of question, right? Uh, which one is better, right? I mean, yeah, it feels better to be desensitized in a world that's bombarding you with poisons all the time. I mean, and I like just superficial level of like, okay, yeah, I'd rather be desensitized. And that's why people turn to drugs. So I mean, drug uses. So high because people do want to numb themselves to the pain of being in this modern world. Because it's painful. And I often think of the time traveler too. I often thought if you took a person from a different time before this and they would feel it. And just let's know doubt they would feel it, right? Because you just, you weren't being slowly boiled. Like you're just going from like none of us to, even if you, and you can do this yourself

58:13sort of, I mean, it's harder and harder. But if you take yourself out of it, if you find somewhere, pristine as you can and you allow your body to calm down and, and, and relax, you will come back into it and you'll feel it. You'll feel it more. And this is true for my partner. He was not sensitive. He is now because he notices because he's away from it. He hates it. He hates how it feels. You know, but he doesn't maybe have, yes. Okay, there's a couple things going on. Yes, there could be a weakness in terms of, well, I was poisoned more for longer and now my body is like not as able to handle this. And there is some research showing that that's true. And that's why I'm like, okay, I got to protect myself because I am, it's more harmful. It is more harmful for me in my condition to be exposed than somebody else. It leads to an immediate term, but not necessarily again, because I don't think we're adapting really. So first of all, if we adapt, I think there are micro-adaptions. I don't agree with like Darwinian adaptation theory, you know, evolutionary theory, but

59:15like there's some evidence of like smaller adaptations we mean. I agree. It's like that you'll see that I don't believe in the theory of evolution, but I do believe that species can evolve in a response to prolonged exposure to a certain environment. Right. But you don't like change into another species. Exactly. You're not going to be able to turn into a bird at some point. But yeah, so there are those things happening, but that does take time. And so like when you have this huge change so rapidly that we're undergoing now, even if whatever kind of theory you believe in or don't, like that can't happen in that time period. So what's happening instead of an adaptation is a compensation. So there are compensations happening. So and I feel it myself, when I go into town, I'll first feel that pressure from all the MFs and everything, but then and I'm better at compensating now because I've got enough relief and my body's recovered enough that I do compensate better. I start to feel like I'm fine.

1:00:15Actually now and I couldn't say that 10 years ago when I was dealing with this, I would absolutely not be fine in town for any length of time. But now I'll go and I'll be around some of this and I'll be like, yeah, I don't really, I feel like I'm fine. And it's a different because I'm in the new normal of like how that feels. And then I come back and I'm go, oh, yeah, this is better. Like, okay, you know, and I was compensating. And then I have to recover. So I have a place to recover. I think if other people had places to recover from their exposures, they'd realize that they need to recover and that they, but they don't have the opportunity. Unfortunately, so that just ends up being cancer, you know, ends up being something else because all that time you're making compensation, some things you're giving up something. Like so some process in your body that needs to be happening isn't because it's like, okay, just like I like to give the analogy of if you were in a really, really cold place and you know, in order to not die, your body puts all the heat goes into the core, right? And so that means your extremities are vulnerable.

1:01:17But your body is like, well, we could give up some fingers and toes, I guess, but we can't, we can't, we got to protect the heart and the lungs and everything, right? So in that compensation, you trade off something and that could be your toes. Like you get frostbite, but you're alive, right? So that's what's happening. That's what's happening all the time now. It's like, so something, something that you should be happening isn't because of all the defenses are going to like protect you from these exposures as much as they can. But there's only so much of that you can do. So you're constantly like battling, like you're constantly like having people don't realize that going to work, they're going into town, they're in their homes and they're watching TV and they're just think they're being entertained, but they're trying to survive. But your body's like, I'm trying to survive this, but it can feel, it's a stimulus. So there's a stimulus addiction. And as, and it's like the red shoes in this way too, where that constant dancing, you know, and a constant stimulation, when you stop it, it feels bad because you crash, right?

1:02:22And so you want, then you want it again, it's like because the adrenals get affected in this process and most of us have like some adrenal, you know, like exhaustion of some kind or compromised adrenal function. And so then we're like, oh, yeah, I need my coffee or something like we need something to keep us up in the morning. Most people don't wake up with energy, which people used to, you know, even in my own lifetime, I remember doing that and I don't really have that now. You know, I don't, I don't use stimulants because I know how I can't really handle that. But I do like, kind of reach for the herbal teas that might be slightly more stimulating in the morning, you know, even just nettles, like I'll have nettles in the morning to help me. But I mean, I have a place where I can sleep pretty well. Most people don't have that. And I, but it's still not pristine because they're satellites. You know, there's no place anymore where we get to feel like what people used to feel like. And, and so we're not as strong. And we're missing out on, we're missing out on like that feeling of feeling a lot really

1:03:27alive and really energetic and waking up refreshed and unfortunately, I don't think people experience that anymore. Like, I agree. I agree. I agree. Which is really sad. And I mean, it reminds me a lot of a silent weapons for quiet wars, which I think my detail is a lot of this just overwhelmed and distracted. And I think that that's, you mentioned a couple different things. You know, one of the people using drugs to escape, right? You know, or using television. And I think that, or using darkness to escape. But I think that, you know, it's like if you're looking objectively at just the state of, of humankind, I just, I feel like most people just have this sense that whether they're aware of it or maybe it's something deep inside, but just that something is really off, especially since COVID, right? Especially since COVID that, that the world has changed in some sort of very, very fundamental way.

1:04:28And not only is it, you know, in, in flation and, you know, that just to survive in America and to raise a family, people having to work multiple jobs just to get by. But this, the, the, the stress of it, the, the damage of social media, the damage of on demand, you know, TV, because I'm going, growing up, if we wanted to watch a movie for tonight, we'd go to the local, local, not in a block, not even a chain blockbuster. This is the local video shop that was in this small, little area in our small, little town. And you'd go and you'd pick out your VHS tape and you'd pick it and you'd go and it was very exciting. So it just seems that, you know, that I think that there's just a sense that I think a lot of people have that there's something just fundamentally wrong with the world. And I think that a lot of us are, we're seeking and I think a lot of people just numb it, you know, they numb it through addictions, they numb it through television or getting obsessed with different hobbies or sports obsessions or these things that I think are all intentional.

1:05:29Again, it goes on. It wasn't quite a wars. It's, it's very obvious they want people to be busy, distracted, not paying attention so that no one actually is able to step back and say, hey, whoa, we're all in some like water that's like at 200 degrees, like it's going to be boiling soon and we're all going to be dead. They don't want people to play that role. But yeah, I mean, I do think that there's some, there has to be some sort of breaking point, right? There has to be some sort of kind of peak where something has to change because I think that if we just continue down this path, it's just as destruction. And I don't believe that mankind is slated for destruction. I don't believe that. I think that there's a much higher purpose to why we're here and what's happening on this earth and what's happening in a battle of good versus evil. And so it's it's it's it's inching hearing your perspective of, you know, what you've done, you know, even people that have gone on say, you know, dopamine detoxes, right?

1:06:29They've gone and they've gone to some place out in the woods for two weeks where there's no technology, no social media and it resets all of their, their glands and the, you know, not not to like the the base it needs to be, but it helps that. But I think that yeah, that they're definitely is and I sense it too, even the interactions you have while going out to the grocery store or, you know, seeing, you know, go to a local park. The world is just yeah, the world's changed. And it's because yeah, and one of the, one of the, one of the changes I think, I think you won't notice until you see it happening because you don't see it as much as the silence on the streets of kids not playing outside. Yeah. Yeah. You know, kid children noises yelling screaming, laughing, you know, it's quiet. It's weird, you know, and the kids are just on it, when they're together, they're on their screens. And that's horrible. And that's so when I occasionally I've seen it and I go, oh, yeah, that's, that's what it was like. I forgot. We'll forget, you know, and that's another thing where I mean under attack is our memory.

1:07:33And that's a huge effect of technology, which is really convenient for, you look at this politically, you know, you short-term people's, you know, memory seems to be with politicians, like because they say one thing to get an office, they do something else and everybody forgot. I'm like, how did you forget that? But that's happening on this, on this whole scale. It's very convenient for controllers to, and it happens in politics because politicians are like wizards, they're like really good at mind control speeches and stuff and like the, you know, the illusionists and like look over here, look over here, things, tactics. And so it's on that level of distraction. Like it, I mean, that's the main issue with just what design of the internet is to be distracting you. And we're addicted to, we're addicted in so many different ways and we're addicted to novelty. So, a new information, we want new information. And again, is the dopamine hit thing is going on for sure. And the reason that's a problem, because dopamine itself isn't a problem.

1:08:34Dopamine coming at you constantly is a problem and so easily. And it's really because of not efforting. So like when you get something without effort, you get dopamine. If you get dopamine hits after you've worked on something you carved or sculpted or whatever took a long time and then you finished it, then that's great because you have all these other chemicals that balance it. So and it's happened after sustained effort, your body's moving to when you're getting, we've never before had dopamine hits like this coming out of us all the time so easily. Just never happened. We don't, I don't think anybody knows what the real effects are, what's going to happen. We're being experimented on. You know, just with everything and I think there's definitely a transhuman experiment is like, yeah, like inject us with technology. I mean, it does feel like well, some of us will just die out because we can't survive in this new world because it's so altered and our bodies aren't, we're rejecting the

1:09:34technology or that's injected into us, whatever. And it will be like the Native American tribes who were wiped out by colonialists who changed everything. You know, and their way of life wasn't sustainable, wasn't an option anymore. It's not an option to be a hunter gatherer. You know, the environment doesn't sustain it. There's not enough food to do it that way, right? Because of big agriculture. So there's all these, and it's depressing to think of it that way, like it's these things we don't have control over. But I think if we're more aware of them, we will have more control. Like if we say no, if we stop consenting to everything, if we start doing things ourselves again, you know, it's not like they won't try to stop us from doing that. And I think a lot of the weather manipulation is very much geared at like the small farmer in the homesteader, you know, to not be able to grow their own food. But it doesn't mean we don't try and you mean, you know, things like greenhouses can help

1:10:37and you know, like we can kind of think of it become innovative ourselves. You know, it's like we're always being told technologies. So it's all the innovators. They're so innovative, so creative and innovative. But like what about our own ingenuity and innovation like that from humanity, like not machine made? And I think again, like the danger with the AI, there's so many hazards and dangers there. And I think it's best not to engage with it if we can help it. But that's being forced on it. I wasn't engaging with it at all. I didn't choose to. And now to continue in any online shopping, which I end up forced into because shops won't carry things I need because I can't get them in the stores. They say you have to go online. So it's not even like, oh, because I love off-grid and far away from shops, which yeah, does kind of push me into more online shopping, which ironically like I end up dependent on this thing by being away more away from society. Just for anybody like, oh, no, that's an online thing. You have to go online. You have to go online for that.

1:11:38The thing that makes me really upset is post COVID, a lot of restaurants now you go in there and the menu is it's a QR code. I was I stayed at a hotel recently because I took my girls on a trip to go home to see their grandmother and my mom. And we wanted to get some breakfast in the morning. And I wanted to kind of, it was exciting. I'm a two year old and a five year old. It's a really exciting adventure for them. And I was getting room service breakfast, which was, you know, to them it was this fastening thing that they'll wheel a card of fresh pancakes in, right? But the menu to access the menu, there's not even menu in the room. It has a QR code. And it's like, and of course I still ordered it and I went through it. But like that really angers me. It's like how dare you force me to use my phone to access your menu, which should be on just a nice little printed laminated piece of paper in the room. Which this whole germ thing was ridiculous. Oh, gosh, yeah. So I mean, that's what would the excuse was, which is stupid because if it's laminated and spray it with something or whatever, you know, like what is that different?

1:12:39And you're still touching the QR code thing that I mean, I guess that was the table. You're still using it this over where I mean, I mean, this is getting rid of the menu. Like that doesn't even if you believe in the germ and the viral theory thing that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. To force you, it's another way intentionally to force you into using this. Yeah. And even if you don't want to believe it's malicious, you can, people will see it. And this is still malicious on the, the aspect of like profit. Well, yeah, I mean, we want to make more, we want more people to use our products, you know, just on that level. So we're going to make them, you know, and that's happened, that's always happened where the government and industry collude to make profits for each other because they're all friends with each other and they're going to get their businesses to do well. So even if you don't think it's like there's a transhuman agenda or some other enslavement of humanity agenda, it's still pretty nefarious to, you know, realize that like it's about, well, they want their products sold and they don't care if those products harm people,

1:13:42they want to make the money from it. So on that, just basic greed over everything else, you know, profit over people level. That's what's happening. You don't have options because you have to use a technology now. And even for like during the pandemic, it was the contact tracing apps and you need to have this to travel and forcing you to have it to, I haven't traveled. I haven't been on a plane in over 10 years. Good for you. Which I mean, well, I mean, I want, honestly, I'd like to travel. I just can't. Like I'm locked out of that because of just from the Wi-Fi. I was locked out already before COVID because of Wi-Fi and chemicals, perfumes going on planes, kind of like the worst place I could be for all those things. And so I'd, the way to do it, I mean, I would maybe I'll do it one day. I'll feel like strong enough and up to it and hopefully won't, you know, have a hard attack or something on it. But like, but then it's just even like, okay, if I go where I place I want to go, where can I stay? It's I can't even stay in an Airbnb unless they turn off the Wi-Fi and I don't have that

1:14:45stuff around me because I can't sleep. That was the main, the very main thing for us that made it's like, have to move and have to be somewhere. I could not sleep. I still cannot sleep when there are sickly signals going on. Wakes me up all night. It like pings me all night, you know, and I'm not the only person who experiences that. So I, and I'm going for years with dealing with that and then having it get worse. It's like, it's insane making. I get turned into an absolute crazy person after not having a couple of nights like that, you know, I'm just just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, destroyed. So, so it's like survival for me. And, and so where, when I've traveled at all, it's been in the car and camping somewhere where I can find wilderness camping, not a campground and that's the only travel I've been able to do. And I was a world traveler. Like, I traveled all over the, I lived abroad. I traveled all over the world. I loved that. And that was taken away from me. So when I saw that happen with the pandemic and nobody was traveling and stuff, I didn't, I wasn't sitting there going, oh, good, everybody else gets to feel what I feel. Like, I thought, felt terrible for everybody.

1:15:47I don't want to wish the sun people. I don't want to wish like forced isolation. But at the same time, I was, we were really set up in a good position to live the way we were. We, our lives weren't changed at all from it. We, we were living on a different piece of land that was 150 acres and lots of land around that. And I just did it. I went hiking every day like I always had. And I didn't go to town because I didn't usually go to town anyway. And you know, I go very just for necessity and when some shopping and that was kind of my life already. And so it was interesting that our lifestyle was exactly the same through all that. But we were so much freer than people in a city where they were stuck inside in a small room. I mean, you couldn't, I'm not somebody. I couldn't handle that. If you put me, if I had to be indoors, I can't, I don't even think I've ever spent, I don't know when I've ever spent like a full day inside in my life or like hardly at all. You know, there had to be very, very sick and then it would be like not more than a couple

1:16:49days. I'd be indoors the whole day. But to be like not just indoors, but in a hotel room, you know, people who traveled and had to wait two weeks in a hotel room. Oh, right. Yeah. Well, so I grew up in the country and grew up surrounded by, you know, farm fields and now I look back and think, oh gosh, those monocrop, you know, glyphosate fields. It's like, okay, okay. But in after college, I moved to New York City. And so I lived in a 600 square foot apartment on Fifth Avenue for, you know, close to a decade. And it got to a point where I was just losing it and I had to get out. I had to leave. And so now, you know, my wife and I, we live out in the country, we're on seven acres. We're surrounded by forests. We have our two little girls. They go outside. Whenever they want to. Even the winter. I'll look out and I was like, my five year olds out there just in her underwear with the pair of snow boots on, you know, running around, you know, seeing what's going on on the winter, right? And because, you know, we're in a very private area.

1:17:50We've got a gate. We've a long drive with a gate on it. So no one can even come under our property. And it's, it's obviously, it's a balance, right? We have a lot of technology to do what I'm doing and everything. But it's definitely, it's a much more wonderful way of living. It's much more human. And so, you know, for people that are watching or listening, what's some advice that you can give them? Like, if they want to start making some changes, I mean, what would you tell someone that says, gosh, this, this discussion really resonated with me. But I'm stuck in a suburb. I, I, you know, it's, it's really difficult. What are some things that people can do to start to move their lives back to kind of like how you're living? Yeah, I mean, what we're like, I was saying like you don't know what, you don't know that you're being harmed or understood, you won't understand it until you really get away from it. And you won't, and I don't just mean the physical, MF, which is definitely part of it, but like psychological components of this, that how it changes your brain, how it produces anxiety.

1:18:55So I definitely recommend just baby steps starting tech breaks, you know, like just getting, just getting off of them. I mean, the antidote here to this problem is less tech, not more tech. So you have to remember the antidote is just going back doing it, like, and dedicating yourself to doing that. And, and a lot of it's about self-care. And that's why I still like this red shoe story, like the girl in it, she was caring for herself in the beginning. And like any addiction, what do we see with addictions? What happens is you neglect self-care, right? So people, it's could be little things, but it adds up like you're not cleaning your house as much as you would be, you let things go, you just let it go a little longer, leave the dishes a little longer. But those things affect you psychologically too, like having your place messy and disorganized, they become stressful. But you may be not cleaning yourself enough, like you're not taking showers, that may you're not exercising, you're not eating, you forget to eat a meal, and that continues. And that's what any addiction, we see this in pronounced cases with drug addictions,

1:19:57alcohol addictions, you say, yeah, that's horrible, you know. And we can also point it with tech addiction, we tend to go, oh, the gamer is the ally, they're really bad off, I know somebody, but you don't see it with yourself. And again, with any addiction, like the addict doesn't see it. And you need to see it in yourself before you're pointing your finger at everybody else, just because they look worse off than you. How is it affecting your life? How could your life be better? How could you take better care of yourself? And my last chapter in my book, I lay out several different things you can do. And I start with, and this is somebody else's research that says, and I like this one, to start off with, because it's easier to remember, like an hour away from tech each day, a day per week, and a week per year. A week per year might be harder for people, but at least you could start with the day one day off per week, where, I mean, just none of it, you know, at least like maybe you want to still watch your movie in the evening, you know, or something, but like just turn off that internet and the phone, you know, just get away from it.

1:21:01Try to take a whole day, a break, at least from whatever the problem is for you, like your smart phone or just the internet, you know, take a break from that, like give it a long enough time to feel the difference. And because you are going to go through withdrawal, and it's going to feel painful at first. So you want to give enough time that you get to go through that and then feel the benefit. So I would even try, I try to do two days a week. Again, I mean, every day I'm outside and away from tech most of the time, but for me, it's still a problem to get on the internet because I see my own, my own problem is like multitasking addiction and like online shopping stuff. So that stuff really pulls me in and it gives me, it changes my brain and I get into how your brain gets changed. And so what happens is you, it's that high speed kind of fast paced browsing, hyper browsing, and then you go to try to just go in your garden and do some weeding and it's like a painful transition because you're speeded up and you're brain processing and then you have to slow it down.

1:22:02And so a lot of us, on that level, I think everybody experiences that and you're going to, all that stimulation and all the, you know, kind of distracted like browsing and techs coming in and you're emailing and you're doing all these different things. And so it's going to feel hard and this is where we have problems with patients and children especially dealing with them. Well, the children themselves have being hyperactive and impatient but the parents dealing with the children having a short fuse and having a hard time. You know, so we're, it's affecting our relationships because like we're short tampered and we don't understand why. And so we're off our drug at the moment and we also, we just can't process that time, the time operates differently. So what I want people to experience is how time operates differently, like how you can have a really nice long, slow, paste day that you can relax into when you don't have to go online and you don't have to use your phone and you can spend that hard, but you want. But I definitely recommend at least an hour a day if you can't do an hour a day away

1:23:03from your technology, you know, you got to question why and see that there's a problem there and this has gotten out of control because we don't have boundaries anymore over our work and our free time, you know, and this is like, you know, because of course, again, we're told, oh, this is a convenience and it's helping you to be, you can do your work out while you're in nature or like you can do it anywhere, but then you're expected to do it everywhere. You're expected to answer everywhere. So the other thing you can do is change expectations for other people you interact with, change your expectations. So tell them, I'm taking these breaks for myself, like give yourself office hours. You know, if you work from home, like I do or whatever, like say, like, here's my office hours where I can be reached. Otherwise, I'm unplugging. I'm going to unplug for myself and for my family and set that precedent and that standard and like, and maybe other people go, oh, that's a good idea. You know, because most people, when I tell them like how I live and I don't have the internet at the home, they go, oh, that sounds really nice. Like that's for response I get now.

1:24:03People feel that they're, this is harming them. They don't want it all the time. It shows you that the shift in people's thinking, like they'd reckon, ten years ago, they would have been like, oh, you're kind of weary way of a luddite, right? If they're familiar with the term, right? But now it's, yeah, you're right though. I think that people are now, it's idealistic, right? Like, oh, that would be wonderful, right? That's great. Yeah. One thing if I could add just in terms of something that I've tried to do my own self is try to spend a little bit time each week creating something with your hands, whether it's gardening and planting, whether, you know, for Christmas, this past year, my wife got me a wood carving set, because I had a willing knives. And I'm like the first night I sat down, I was up to three or four in the morning, I carved a little wooden bear, right, out of a piece of wood. And it was just, like, it was the most wonderful thing for me to be able to do that. And that's, you know, so whether it's knitting, you know, learning how to knit, you know, picking is also good. I know. But yeah, doing tactile things where you're creating.

1:25:03That's important because what we're having is a sensory overload of audio and visual stimulus when we're on our tech, but we're lacking is other kinds of sensory input. And so we're actually sensory deprived. Like you're watching a TikTok video of someone gardening, but your body's doing nothing while you're watching it. Yeah. And you're, so people are missing experience with like their other, so it's all these different, especially for kids and milestones and, you know, and it matters in terms of growth and everything in terms of like other kinds of movement. And so tactile sensory input is really important, but also moving your body in different ways that we don't like swinging. And so the appropriate factor, the regular system, the regular system is like, has to do with your ears and balance. And, you know, a lot of people might be having problems with balance now. And like, so we're having problems like navigating our physical world because of technology, right? So not just because you're texting and you trip over something, but because like literally you're missing like your peripheral vision is getting harmed, like you're not using it

1:26:08anymore, right? So you lose it and you become like tunnel vision, which makes you more vulnerable in the world. But like, yeah, balance, so like your balance, you need to do things like, even as an adult, the children, especially, but like children, you used to roll and roll down hills and span and find dreaming and pull tug of war. So tug of war stuff is proprioceptive system would be like heavy lifting things, like pulling pushing. And that helps you go to sleep at night. Like so if you want to do some pushups at night or something like our rowing machine or something like where you are lifting, you know, like weights that helps you sleep. But if you're running like, and you know, that you're getting your heart rate up and you're going to get hyper and that's not good for going to bed at night. But yeah, all these things we used to do in the physical world that in different kinds of, but the tactile thing is so important too. And I recently started getting into sculpting again. So I used to sculpt and now I'm making little figures with clay. And yeah, it's like it's fresh at first, it's really frustrating.

1:27:11But then you start to enjoy it. And I think that frustration and for me with painting too, like it's frustrating when I haven't done it in a while. And we kind of like are shying away from things. This is the other thing. We're so used to things being done for us. We shy away from like the growing pains of something being frustrating. You know, undertaking that thing. And I think like to challenge the listeners to try to push through that pain of like something being hard to do, feeling hard to do, right? And letting yourself go, that be okay to have a challenge and that feel hard to do, right? Like we're, that's okay, that's normal. But like also things like meditation, meditation practice, it can be really helpful too. It's to get the stimulus, to calm it down, you know. But again, it's not, it's certain kind of stimulus and it's very, it's actually like a really narrow, it's just like, like I said, audit or auditory and visual. It's like that kind of stimulus. But it's not even like it's a 2D visual, right? So you're missing out on the 3D world around you.

1:28:12Recently I went to really a natural spot for my birthday with my partner and we were at this mouth of a river where it meets the ocean and as the salmon fishing started, there were people fishing there where the seals, I love seals. So like that's my art main, like news for art. So I photographed and paint them in two sculptures. And so I was, I was in 7th heaven because I'm like taking, there was always sealed action was like amazing, but it was like all those waves or like they got fishing their mouth, there was sea lions barking and it was like, and I remember my partner going, this is so over crazy overwhelming, the sensory input was unbelievable. Like it was like just a wild day out and the waves and it was like, ha, it's just like, this is how they live every day, they have this, and you're thinking about the wild animals, like this is the life every day, they're like, it's exciting. And I think we're missing, like we want things to be exciting in a way. So we turn to the screen to excite us, right? Like to watch a exciting movie, why don't go out and live an exciting, adventurous life and feel that? It's so much better.

1:29:13And I remember sitting there going, yeah, this is way better than watching an adventure movie, I was screaming, you know, live it. Like live it and realize that your life is important and your time is important and your time is your life. So if your life is getting eaten away by your technology, that's your time is getting eaten away, that's your life. And then your life's over. And I think, I noticed, like I said earlier, this is dehumanizing thing happening where we, it's meant to make us feel like we're not important and you are important. And I actually, like now, and I forgot that living in the city way back when I lived in New York City, too, by the way, for years, not as I was near a park, I was near a prospect park and that kind of maintained my sanity that way. But, and I went, yeah, I'd go away every weekend, like get out of the city. But you know, I was going to say about that. Yeah, your life is, yeah, like I remember going through periods of depression and like serious depression at times. And I can't imagine that anymore.

1:30:14I can't imagine feeling bad about myself. You know, like, why do people, I'm like, why do people feel about everybody's important? Why would you feel bad about yourself and existing? Like, you have every right to exist. You're important. You're, you matter. Like every person matters. Every person has something to contribute and to enjoy on this planet. And like, and this is taking away from you. Like your use of technology is making you, is distorting your perception, is distorting that and is making you think that you don't matter. And you do. So like, you know, just smiling at people at the store, it matters. Like you help somebody feel better that day. Like do those little things every day and reconnect with people. And then you don't, you won't be unhappy. Like, I mean, living in nature at first was hard. Like, and there was reasons for that. You know, go have time to talk about, but I remember, I realized how much I company there is in the natural world. And how soothing that is and how it feels really good.

1:31:16I never feel like alone or lonely even when I'm alone because there's like birds and squirrels and plants. I have my garden and animals. It's like, and that's, we're meant to feel that companionship. And I think one that disconnects from that also makes people feel depressed because they feel and feel lonely. Yeah. But there's no need to if you go back into that and you appreciate it and help protect it, then you realize you never have to be lonely. So good, good point. Well, I will have to wrap it. I think I could keep you for hours, but I've got a lot of you coming up and you'll like this, but I got to take my wife on a walk or not take your own walk. We're going to go walking. So we've been making an effort to go walking in the middle of the day. And so that's a big one. That's one more challenge I'm going to leave people with because I've started this last year and I've done over a year now, a walk a day challenge away from your tech. Yeah, that's what we do my lesson. It can be whatever, how many time it can be like, you doesn't have to be certain amount of time, but just take a walk and preferably in nature.

1:32:18And it's easy for us to do that. But it's, you know, amazing how many times I would make excuses before I challenge myself. Here I am with trails right outside the door and I'd be like, oh, it's cold or entertaining or whatever. So I've got to make excuses one walk a day at least and I've done it for a year. I was there times I did not want to do it. I can tell you, you know, and I'm like, I'm like, no, I'm doing my walk and actually take the cats off and they're used to going on. They like to go on the walk. Yeah. Our cats also follow us will go and walks with one like on a very country road in the forest, basically. And we'll look back and get two cats running after us. They want to go on the walk too. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, go to what do you want to do challenge? I want to pull your website one more time before we we sign off of here your website is just Shannon Rowan.com I'll make sure that that's in the description as well to Shannon Rowan rowo in.n.com This is your new book right here the red shoes Which I recommend people you know looking at ordering you've also got a lot of other books on your website

1:33:22So here you go red shoes Yep, there you go. Wi-Fi refugee, which is a lot more of your personal story Um, you know, this is the book that we talked about that you welcome to the mass grade that you wrote with John Hamer Uh, so yeah, you've got some great stuff here. Of course you have the seals on here. So we've got the seals Yeah, and um, yeah, I mean Shannon it's just it's been wonderful speaking to you And I also I think that and I feel lucky that I get to do this because it's also Find time for the human connection. I'm lucky that my job dictates that that I'm you know Whether I like or not I'm forced to sit down and talk to people that I don't know and it's really really nice to have that opportunity But yeah, it's it's been really nice to speak with you and I hope that we can do this again and this thank you for Everything you're doing to get this information out And I hope that people can support you and and buy your books and and all that good stuff So yeah, thank you Shannon So much just the mind pleasure really appreciate having me on yes, yeah, we'll do it again. Thank you

1:34:25Did you know that in the last few centuries over half a million bells have been destroyed There were literally bell grave yards now the textbooks tell us that this was to use the metal But if you've ever gone on this rabbit hole you discover that the sounds that these bells made had amazing healing properties There are even claims at certain regions with lots of these bells church bells, etc We're mostly untouched by the bubonic plague now your doctor might call you a conspiracy not for thinking that But even modern science recognizing the healing power of sound so check out this study from the NIH Doctors used sound therapy on chronic back pain and they found quote Significant reductions in pain sensation and pain related disability But here's the best part you don't need some fancy expensive sound equipment to find relief So a woman named Linda Bamber Olsen created something called the wave watch So this little device has over 1200 frequencies that you can use for everything from joint pain to brain fog to insomnia

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