Best Peptides, Stem Cells, Testosterone & Exercise Hacks - Biohacking Roundtable - #1148

0:00People of the UK and Ireland, if you are coming to see me on tour, I want to hear from you. I want to know what problems you're dealing with, your worst first date, and any questions that you've got for me. And I will be bringing some of you up on stage to talk about it. So if you're coming to see me on tour, this October, go to chriswonymson.live-stories, submit them, and I might see you with a mic in front of your face very soon. chriswonymson.live-stories. Everyone tell me what peptides you're on. That's all I care about. Let's go. Which day of the week? Which time of the day? I view peptides as a little bit more of like a coniment that's in your refrigerator that you might use for a specific reason and don't follow an exact protocol every day. For example, when I travel, I use thymus and alpha one, which I'm on right now, as you can tell, for the immune system. Yeah. I keep around BPC 157 and TB 500 for injuries. I run a couple of times a year, a

1:01Tessamorillon Ipermorillon with CJC 1295 cycle for growth hormone. And those are the biggies. Oh, CMax and C-link. Intranasal. CMax is a little bit more like a cognition, brain drive neurotrophic factor, booster, and then C-link is more of like an angiolitic. So come and upper downer. It's like my version of valium caffeine. Yeah. What he said. Yeah. And pretty much that protocol I agree with. And I tell everyone, the answer's not at the bottom of a peptide bottle, like diet, lifestyle, nutrition, living by the principles first. These are like additives that can help optimize your health, especially with our food sources and how stripped they are of the nutrients. The only compounds that I think I take that you didn't discuss as IGF LR3. I don't know if you've ever messed with that. Insulin growth factor LR3. So a lot of people take growth hormone historically, but the reason they were taking growth hormone was in an effort to get all the therapeutic benefits that

2:04growth hormone gives you when it converts to IGF. And so if you were to use the peptide IGF, you get all the benefits of growth hormone. But with a much better safety profile that will not impact your natural growth hormone levels. And so that's why I'm a huge fan of stuff. Does it have like a similar like pure HGH you get a little bit of almost like a glucose corticord response where there's a surgeon cortisol, your resting glucose tends to be higher. A lot of people don't sleep as well at night because it goes on a downstream pathway. Do you skip out a lot of that? Yeah, you do skip out a lot of it, but bigger than that is you're not impacting your natural growth levels. So you're still in your four, I'm in my 40s, so 46. So I want to be cognizant of that. But anytime I come off, like so I'll go on for four to six weeks. And then I when I come off, I'll cycle on to CJC and some of the other things you discuss just to boost my natural growth hormone levels. So I have the simplest protocol here. Sounds like I will microdose, GLP1 once in a while for inflammation. I think there's going to be new emerging research. I was

3:07actually at the protein working group summit 3.0. And that is like the Oscars for nerds and protein scientists. I just invitation only a hundred of the finest scientists that are doing protein research. And there were topics of discussion like what are the challenges that we face. But more importantly, I sat with Arnie Astrup who discovered GLP1's impact on appetite. So he was essentially responsible for what we now have is this obesity now not called obesity sarcopenic epidemic GLP1 use. Again, I am totally for GLP1's, but that is cool. You said you're microdosing it for inflammation. Yes. And there is going to be new emerging research that it is going to have an impact on cancer. They believe that load us to the next. We don't totally know. He believes it's through inflammation. And this was the guy who discovered GLP1's effect on appetite.

4:09How do you know that it's not just a reduction in the turnover of food? We don't. We don't. All of this could be less cancer causing food. Yeah. It could be. But that remains the thing. Well, in the second leading cause of cancer, well, age is the leading cause second to that is obesity. And then so if you were able to address aging in obesity, then you're actually going to reduce the risk of cancer. So I think there's definitely going to be a correlation to the weight loss. Because even obesity is one of the biggest risk factors for cancer inflammation. Yeah. Inflammation independent of obesity as well, just eating. How many bros you know that are relatively lean, but that toning over tons of sugar, they're just training it out of them are they're still young, then metabolism still kicking. That's one of the possible benefits of intermittent fasting is autophagy and giving giving that like reactive oxygen species production of break. Yes. I have microdosts with GLPs before on flight days. Like there's something about just like quiet food noise. You don't really have access to great food anyways. I don't want to be distracted by food or

5:11think about it. I'm sedentary anyways for most of the days. So even if I could eat, it's probably not the best thing for me to be eating. And so that when I say microdost, like I don't know how much you mean, but I'm talking like 0.25 and to contextualize that like a normal dose would be 8, 10, 12 milligrams of something like a regular time. It's crazy that you said it. So it is good travel. Because what you're saying is what we've seen anecdotally. Like because we're at over 70,000 patients now in the patient population as a whole, I waste a well. And a lot of the patients are now doing microdost GLP ones and they say that they see a big difference in their inflammation. And I think that that is what we're going to find more. And I think the bigger point that we have to make is that they're here to stay. Whereas other medications, there's never been anything nearly as revolutionary. And you know, in the 90s when they had the food guide pyramid and then all of a sudden obesity hit. Yeah, yeah, we are at the precipice of trading obesity for sarcopenia. Yeah, yeah, we're going from people who are too big to people to do to frail decrease in muscle mass and strength that we've seen it,

6:14right? Your parents all of a sudden get frail. Your grandparents get frail. And if we're not careful, we're going to miss the early warning signs, which I think that we're seeing with people out in Hollywood, we're just seeing a transformation. That's like that's like the book I read your book. And you talked about where it's not necessarily that we're undermuscled. We're also undermuscled. It's not just that we're obese. We are undermuscled. That's right. And if we can maintain lean muscle mass and bone marrow density as we age, it is one of the leading indicators on health span and longevity. What are some bio hacks or some interventions that you use or believe in, but you don't have any data to support? What are some of the things that you're like, I fucking love this and I know that it works for me. The doctor in the corner is shaking ahead. We'll get to the second pro scientists. Let's go, bro science biocharger. Have you ever seen this? Oh my god. I have one. Barrowed one. We don't know. I don't know. I don't.

7:15So I wrote me into your book. Facebook marketing. I said, no, I, okay. So I saved a patient's life. And she said, pick any piece of equipment that you want. And she keeps talking about this biocharger. She's like, my sex drive is up. It's like the best thing ever. I'm like, okay, well, I already have a sauna. I already have a cold plunge. We're about to buy a shirt. Yeah. But so I got a, I have a biocharger. How did you find it? Great. My husband, he's like, I feel this. I mean, who knows, but it does, it does. It does it work. It's like a radio frequency is based on a Tesla coil surrounded by 12 noble gases in two and there's zero clinical data, but you can hold a cool. You've got like, say, but what do you think? I think a parasite recipe like a, like, the raisin brand. What is that? It works. It's a question. If your cosypeid been traveling, whatever, you sit in front of the raisin brand, the rest of you, it's like 12 minutes. And you literally have like a turtle. I want to hear what you're experiencing. It's Chris. What I got research on. I got. I went, I went

8:21to Tony Robbins house. He said, he's got one in every room in his house. The parent had to know why. And we got lent one for a month or so. I noticed no difference for the people that don't know. Did you use it? Wait, did you use it? Consistently rude. Sammy, consistent. He didn't use it. But you can't, like, you put your phone near it and your phone starts fucking glitching out. Yeah. I often did you use it. I don't know. If I'm supposed to use it. Oh, wait, I have two other, I have two things. Okay. And then I've got one more. You might know more about this. That is so fine. I was sorry. So there's something. And you probably know way more about this than I do. But I got lent a win-back machine. Have you ever seen that? It's like some tech heart therapy. Do you know what that is? I don't know. Okay. So I'm, okay, exciting. I don't know. And it's, so you don't know what it is. I don't know what it is either. What is it? Well, it seems like it has some, it's like not quite EMS, but it has some high radio frequency. It is, but it's not exactly. And it's called tech heart therapy.

9:22Do you get these patches? So there's patches, but I've been using it for my hamstring. And it seems to have like a controller that's producing it does. It has this, yes. And I was hoping that you would tell me exactly how it works. But it seems to do tissue healing. I haven't seen good US data on it. I think that I feeling better has to work somehow. And it's not a stem device. Yeah. I do not know if someone could Google it and see exactly what frequency. It's called a win-back. Wind-back? Yeah. Pull it up and see what they're actually saying that it does. I might have seen something like it before. And it localizes where the penis, which is really weird. Yeah. The rock sevalid. You see this one? No. Okay. So it's a sound lounge. The vibrates for like, like a vibrocoustic bed that you lay on. Sounds cool. And then it's a lamp. And the lamp has headphones. So it's like a AV cable. One side is going into the vibrocoustic bed. The other side is going to the headphones. And then there's like 100 different sessions ranging from five

10:26minutes to 60 minutes that are like blast off to the moon psychedelic. Like full on mushroom, LSD like trip, depending on what you choose with zero biological payback as far as you actually needing to swallow substance or put anything under your tongue. You lay there. You put on the headphones. You flip it on. You close your eyes and it whisks you off to another point. And it works. What is it called? Wait for the phone. So it's like if we were to talk about the proposed neural benefit, it would be based on what's called light sound and training, meaning shifting you into different brain waves based on the light and the sound. It's called a rock seba. There is a session on there. It is like a shift wave, but imagine if the shift wave didn't just have sound because the shift wave is super cool for people listening or watching it vibrates. It doesn't just vibrate. It's fucking shanked. It's lined with nose. I've got one at the house. And the cool of the fool part is it will guide you through breathwork sessions. And specifically like the breath holds, you can go like 25% longer just based on the distraction of the

11:30the wall vibrating chair. And you're wearing a fingertip monitor for HRV and your HRV climbs through the roof where you're doing this thing. Imagine that plus flickering light. That's also designed to just like whisk you off into a completely different state. There's a session called rebirth. And they actually recorded like whoosh, whooshing sounds in mom's womb and the fetal heartbeat. And you put on the headphones, you close your eyes, you lay under this thing and it feels like you're just like primarily being whizzed back into this like fetal state and you lay there for 45 minutes. And sometimes you fall asleep, you're in and out of consciousness. And then the last five minutes you get burst. And the music crescendos and all of a sudden like everything starts beating and the lights get brighter and your heart rate speeds up and you get this dump of adrenaline. And then you just like out and then everything goes dark and you sit up from it and you just feel like you go conquer the world. Two p.m. in the afternoon. That's fucking. I was so into that. That's

12:34pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Does it work? If you use, I mean, I've used the shift wave. The shift waves not as comprehensive as that. There was an interesting thing around the sounds from others womb. I had Stephen Porges on the polyvagal theory guy. And he came up with the safe and sound protocol SSP. You familiar with that? So this is a mode of nervous system re-entrainment. And it's a combination of kind of meditation with you actually have a facilitator who is halfway between mantra meditation, psychotherapy and like sound wave work, I guess and breath work. And one of the things that he taught me which is fucking fascinating. The soft, gentle reassuring sounds that mothers give to their kids is the frequency in which the safe and sound protocol works as well. One of the weird things is that's the same like sound frequency. Yes, it's like the tone.

13:35Yes, it's interesting. It's the same for dogs and it's the same for horses. And that's the reason the equine therapy and the humans and horses are able to connect as well and the humans and dogs are able to connect as well. That's fascinating. Because the sound frequency that mothers and kids have in all of those species within the same band is that fucking cool? Where if your mom has a really low voice? She's probably jacked so far. She doesn't matter at all. What else have I been using? It's been interesting. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy. I mean, I know that this is not super like experimental and it's probably pretty well. Not sexy at all. That hard shell at what? Like 2.2, Atta is so good. I don't know what is happening to make me feel the way that I do after I come out of a hyperbaric therapy. But it is 20 minutes on, five minutes off, 100% oxygen on the mask, normal oxygen outside of that, 90 minutes session down at that, 2.2 is better than any coffee, better than any cold plunge, better than anything. There's a little bit of parasympathetic

14:36activation too, just from the whole sensory depth nature of it. I did one of Burgums yesterday and my tongue lagging out of the core of my mouth. But it's just a standard hyperbaric chamber that they've been using in operators forever. Yeah. Michael Jackson was using one in the 90s. Have you guys used the hydrogen bath stuff? I don't think there is. I haven't looked it up. I just thought you'd have one. He's just transformed. I love absorption of hydrogen. But I don't you add ventilation of high use behind it. I just use it. I like it. You're getting hundreds of times more hydrogen than a pill. It's so relaxing because it's a hot tub. You're seeing a hot tub that has hydrogen in it. You can probably tell. You can get a placebo controlled trial where you're actually in the hot tub and nobody tells you whether or not they put hydrogen in it. But the idea is that there is some transdermal absorption of hydrogen in a hydrogen rich environment either in the air or in the water that's greater than what you would get from a pill dropped in water. Hydrogen being a selective antioxidant means that for inflammation, for soreness, etc. You do feel pretty good afterwards.

15:40Yeah. It's hard because I'll have to be sure to read it. I read books for my podcast. And literally my bookshelf on my books to read is in the garage. That's where my wife, how many put the bathtub in a hydrogen bath with a red light? And how long do you stay in? The red light is for the red books. How long do you stay in? About 40 minutes. Every day. I was in a crisis. Almost every day. Hydrogen bath I was using really intimately. That was when I was in Lumaati. That's where I got my hydrogen concentrator. It was from them in San Diego. Have you seen Alex Tanavas thing? He's the inhalation? Yeah, Brigham has one. That is the only hydrogen inhalation machine that can go up to that high of a percentage that doesn't use a nasal cannula. So you get a pretty high concentration. Without risk of explosion. Without risk of explosion. You do not have to worry about with hydrogen. You put me in such with Alex and his machine is fucking out of this world. I don't even know if they're publicly

16:40if they're like, I don't know if they're for sale or not. But it's called. You didn't watch it for a decade. What pushed me over the edge is there's a very trustworthy guy in the hydrogen research sector named Tyler LeBaron, who I think he founded the Hydrogen Research Foundation. I think that's what it's called. And he put his name behind this because he was so impressed with it, compared to all these different machines. A lot of them coming out of Asia that have low concentration or you can't adjust the percentage or they use a nasal cannula instead of a mask. And so when I asked him about it, he was like thumbs up. This is the best one in the market. What do you make of because we've got hydrogen tablets, hydrogen flasks water, infusion flasks, inhalation, and now bats as well. What do you make of hydrogen, the research around it generally, and then what do you make of those different? I've used a test kit to test the bottle and the tablet and the bottle produces a higher concentration of hydrogen. It's like 8 to 10 ppm. But the bottles poop out after 300 uses.

17:46So you got to buy a bottle frequently. The pills slightly lower. The transdermal absorption, there's not a lot of research on that. The inhalation is the highest concentration that you can infuse into your body as far as what they've actually looked at for hydrogen concentration. What's the proposed mechanism benefits of breathing hydrogen, of putting more of it in your body? Stantioxidant. So basically it would, quail inflammation, it would essentially, because it's a selective antioxidant, it can accept or donate electrons. So unlike say like high-dose synthetic vitamin C or vitamin E or non-sortal anti-inflammatory drug, it can actually accept or donate an electron. And so it would be something that would not say well the whoremedic response to exercise. Like after you do a heart exercise session, you're actually not supposed to take high-dose antioxidants. You're not supposed to do a cold plunge.

18:48Well, the cold plunge, you have to drop the muscle temperature by about one degree celcius, which takes at least 10 minutes at a pretty cold temperature, like jumping in a quick cold plunge, taking a cold shower after workout. That's not as big as probably. That sees be no of a blown. Like it's been overblown because I don't know a lot of people who even have the time after workout to get in a cold plunge for 10 to 20 minutes, which is where the desire. And that's where the research that you blunt the anabolic response actually happens. So if you're going to do a long cold plunge, wait for a few hours. Did the folks sing a 10-minute cold plunge? Me, one day we'll surprise you. Yeah, I can. I do three minutes a month. So basically, hydrogen and methylene blue are two examples of selective antioxidants that can accept a donate and electron that would be acceptable for post-exercise inflammation without blunting the anabolic response. Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train regularly, you eat reasonably well, you feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have

19:48absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body. And that is why I partnered with function. Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests spanning hormones, heart health kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer. To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers. Function runs over 160. It's huge. Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard. So you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction. And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with function, it is $365 per year, just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body. And right now, you can get $25 offering it down to $340. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com, slash monomersam, that's functionhealth.com slash bottom wisdom. What about talking about the temperature of your muscles being mediating factor? I saw the Brian had swallowed a thermometer, a pill thermometer, and he was looking at the temperature that you need to get to, yeah,

20:52for the sauna in order to get a heat shock protein, and he'd been doing maybe 20 minutes or 25 minutes at 200, but he actually needed to get to 30 minutes at 200 in order to get to that. What was your read on that data? He did. He's also very lean. Right. So that's going to be a factor in that he's probably going to need higher temperatures to get exactly efficient with the less insulation. I think it also depends on your activity level in the sauna. Like I move a lot in the sauna. Like I'm doing pushups and squats and hot yoga and premium tanning and all the things that one does in a sauna. So I think if you're moving around a lot, you can get pretty hot, but he does make a good point in that if you want the actual heat shock protein benefit of a sauna, which is the main mechanism that kicks in at the higher temperatures. So not just like the detox from sweating or whatever, but the actual cellular resilience effect that you need a hotter temperature than most

21:55likely a lot of people are actually using with the caveat being it's kind of a paradox that sauna decreases risk of dementia and Alzheimer's. But when your cranium gets hot and you're getting above about 200 degrees and you don't have your sexy Elvin sauna hat, then you actually increase risk of dementia and Alzheimer's. So he makes a pretty good point that you probably need to go hotter than you're actually going or move more in your sauna or both, but you need to invest in a in a wool cap to do so. That's the protection. Interesting. How important is the ice balls? How is going to ask? Got ice balls. Yeah, I bought my sons that I forget the brand, but they're dirty. I get nuts because I have 18 year old sons and I want grandkids. That is the thing they say that if you're trying to reproduce that the hot temperatures can decrease fertility. Well, the crazy thing is I was when I went to go and freeze my sperm, I was talking about, okay, what do I need to avoid? One of the things that the guy came back to me and said is there's so many guys that go away in a bachelor party

22:56and they just hang in a jacuzzi, you know, like just chilling with their boys for ages, he's like, that will do so much more damage to your sperm count than a ton of saunas because you've got direct contact from the heat of the water just like absolutely infusing your testicles with chlorine and parabens and thalates and everything else can be done through several tissues. How important are the heat shock proteins? Like do we really need those or can you get a lot of the benefits without getting into that? You can get, and as a matter of fact, this was a couple of months ago, they looked at sauna versus weight training and the weight training protocol produced heat shock protein elevation similar to what people were getting from a sauna session. I don't remember the time or the temperature being used, but waste would be one just exercising in the heat in general. Paradoxically, cold plundering can increase heat shock proteins because it's a thermal regulatory mechanism. So there are other ways that you can stress the body, kind of like fasting and autophagy to get a similar pathway actually. So it doesn't just have to be sauna.

24:01That's interesting. I've been loving a resonance breathing lamps, there's this lamp called Omdahel and it's got FDA registered heart rate sensor on the top of it. So you can imagine like a big glass lamp on the top there's a stone and that's got a hundred hertz sensor. You just hold the stone and the lamp is connected to your Wi-Fi, has the algorithm and it detects your HIV. You breathe the stone vibrates, so you're just breathing up and down with the stone, it maximizes your resonance, it gets you into resonance, it's maximizing that a rhythm here between it. It makes like an ocean sound. I got to talk about on Instagram. So, so fun, absolutely funny, funny story. So, so J-Wiles, the HRV expert who developed that lamp, I used to have this thing where I didn't want to do a podcast without a sidekick without a podcast host. J was my podcast sidekick for like four years. No way. Yeah, he was, he was like the witty banter guy and he's super smart. Like whenever anybody would ask questions about HRV, like J would jump in and then he developed this lamp and it actually is cool. It's fucking, it's absolutely

25:04awesome. The best thing about it is you can grab it and use it while you're watching TV. So, let's say that you're lying in bed or you're on the couch or whatever. If you've got the lamp nearby, you can just be watching the movie and you can crank out 45 minute resonance breathwork sessions without even thinking about it. Because you don't need the light to just vibrate. Just vibrating. It doesn't interrupt anything. If you've got it next to your bed and you can't sleep on a nighttime, you can roll over and grab it. That's what it doesn't interrupt to have you in bed with. So, what is that? Is it the vibration that changes the system? The idea behind resonance breathing and it's it is actually kind of fascinating that nearly every human being on the planet with a breath rate of around five and a half seconds in, five and a half seconds out achieves peak HRV. So, that's about where you see really good vagal tone is at that breath rate. And this lamp is essentially in a train tool to either via visual cues or via vibratory cues if you're using the stone to cause you to breathe at that

26:05rate. There's a book called Coherence. And in the latter pages of that book, it was one of the first books I ever read on resonance breathing. There's like a link or QR code to a downloadable MP3 file called the clock and bell. And that was when I first discovered the power of resonance breathing because it's literally like tt tt tt tt tt tt tt tt tt tt and you play it while you're working. Probably you're checking emails, what you're doing, whatever would normally be stressful, it keeps you from email apnea because you know that you're doing resonance breathing but it trains you how to like subconsciously resonance breathe. Obviously away away more stripped down solution than what Jay developed. But it's all my app is super cool. It's because of like his art. It's trait rather than state. And I think that's why everybody's trying to get themselves over to. It's like I want to do this practice, but I don't it to just end at the end of my session. One of the interesting things I talked to Jay about was if you get below 10 minutes, it's just state. If you get between 10 and 20, you start to move it across into trait changes too. I think you only need to do maybe three or four sessions a week. So an hour a week, something like that.

27:09And it's so easy. So that's that's on my list. It doesn't do fetal heartbeat and womb motion sounds though. Which is a shame. Which is a shame. I gotta build that. Any other cool shit like interventions or supplements or whatever you've been playing. The other big one that I've seen in an I don't bins experienced it too is the muse stem cells. It's they so a scientist Mari Dizawa out of Japan discovered a subset phenotype of stem cell called muse. And it's fascinating because everything they've been doing outside of the United States with tinkering with stem cells and trying to put them under stress and trying to get them to adapt and change has been in an effort to create a cell that would have a certain phenotype that would be optimal for healing recovery and treating an array of different chronic diseases. But that would not become tumor genic. Right. So one of the challenges of a cell that can differentiate meaning it can become anything is that cell could in theory, hypothetically become a cancer cell or what if it came into contact with a cancer cell and took on a cancer phenotype and then exasperated that. And now we

28:12put trillions of these cells in your body. And so it's a fascinating. 2014. This is another woman, one of the leading scientists in stem cell research 2014 she discovered this cell. It is a muse stands for multi lineage stress and during which basically means traditional stem cells you have to cryo freeze negative 80 degrees or more. And the second you thaw them out they begin to die. And so you've got to get them into the body quickly. These muse cells can stay alive for days at room temperature less than 2% of stem cells are muse but they're the super soldiers. So in all this research is now coming together like this scientist Dominic Doyscher out of Germany was a professor at Stanford and he couldn't understand why diabetic patients didn't seem to be responding in certain ways like other patients now that he he realized in his study even though they had stem cells they were missing this other tag cell that was some sort of subset and what it was was

29:13amused. And so here's why that's important. A muse cell in layman's terms can become anything. So like when you're a kinder gardener you could grow up and be a scientist a doctor and a attorney greenfield. Yes, but even greenfield whatever it is because you haven't set your identity yet. So in America most people who say stem cells don't work they're getting bone marrow aspirate or they're taking cells from fat tissue. And the problem with that is that cells already developed a phenotype and the fraction is very large. Yes. And if they're diabetic or elderly they don't have muse. There are no muse. It's literally just traditional MSCs. And so what is so special about these cells is they will take on any phenotype they can pierce the blood brain barrier. Other traditional cells get caught in the lungs. Traditional MSCs mostly get caught up in the lungs. They don't pierce the blood brain barrier. Traditional MSCs have a 3% in graphmet rate. Muse cells have a 30% in graphmet rate. Traditional stem cells take multiple days to engraphed. Muse cells are engraphed within 48 hours. And my histocompatibility too is almost no immune system

30:17in response. So there are immunomodulatory. Is this the shit that my cook had me breathe? Did he have me atomize? Yes. Muse can nebulize. Nebulize. He probably had you do that with muse derived exosomes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And so you can literally place it on the falcon plate internasally and it will pierce the blood brain barrier. And they have this because they did it on stroke victims in Japan. And their brain is lit up like a Christmas tree with these tagged cells. And what's crazy is through phagocytosis they'll consume the damaged cell and take on the personality of that cell. So if you have a damaged neuron, they become a baby neuron that's young and healthy and vibrant. This is proven quantifiably in babies born with in cephalitis. They did a study in Japan. If they don't treat those children almost all of them will be brain damaged in the subset population that was treated in a randomized control trial. Yeah. Which people love. Those children 90% of them had totally normal brain function out to two years from one intravenous treatment from one intravenous treatment. And we actually had a patient

31:21who was on a heart transplant list. We were talking about this with Ben yesterday. Crazy. Patient on a heart transplant list. We treat them intravenous because they couldn't get the heart. By the time they got the heart and they reran this patient's information or their all their data, the doctor took them off the transplant list. And there's crazy data on heart. You guys are using Dizawa mues, right? Correct. Because the actual fraction percentage of muesils widely varies. So. And that's too much. Dizawa is the woman in Japan who discovered these cells. And so this is the most game changer thing that I have seen. And I've like, I don't own into the company. It's not mine. I wish I did. But it's like the most game changer thing. And we've been using it. And because again, Texas has the right to try. And so certain. This is what Brett has seen the most impact with with his, his Parkinson's. And I'm not saying it's going to, if with Parkinson's, it's like, can we slow? Can we slow things? Can we give your body the best chance?

32:25And there are so many different benefits to this, whether it's tendons or joints or orthopedic related injuries. The data is really compelling when you go back and look at all of the data that this woman has accrued over the last decade. And now it's a culmination of even the scientist in Germany, Dominic Doyser, who is trying to understand what are these little subset phenotypes. And now it's all come together where he's like, holy shit. I've wasted 20 years of research. They're actually harvested from a rare breed of cattle in the Middle East. Super cool. You're difficult to get. You're kidding. He is kidding. Yeah. Yeah. It's a callback. This is healthy birth, healthy brother pre-plan C section. They take the discarded afterbirth. And from that, they can extrapolate out these, these supercells, these supercells, basically. That's so fucking cool. Yeah. Afterbirth supercells. Yeah. That's what I mean. So those are things that I think will be game changer as they become more readily accepted. Florida's past the law that allows accessibility. Tennessee just passed a law that I lobbied for. And then also I lobbied in Arizona. We got it through the house in the Senate, but the governor

33:26of Arizona shot it down. I think Texas is going to pass more accessible laws around this. And then you talk. So you can get it in certain states. And then certain states are regulated. And then obviously it's not an FDA approved modality for anything. So any use of these cells would be off label. There is no label. You know what you were talking about putting stuff here. I was thinking about Cleasbray X L E A R. That shit just available over the count of the marcons. Fucking crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe that that thing is just like, oh yeah, just buy it. And for the people that don't know, I'm talking. Can you explain what it is? It's a nasal spray. Yeah, about the, about the Zythe tollum. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've only ever really used it after swimming in fresh water. Like I discovered a way back in the trathlon days where you get out of a river or lake or any fresh body and just typically like about three or four a.m. that night after you you'd lay down and stuff connects in the nasal passages and you get the histamine urgent response. You start sneezing

34:26and you start sniffling and you spray this stuff. Uh, and you get vasodilation and it seems to just like knock down the histamine reaction, but it's just an OTC. Yeah. Yeah. Over the count of a Cleasbray. But if you do a course typically for about two or three months, that's enough to knock out marcons that is a, uh, which normally you'd get a pretty expensive and difficult to get a vasoactive intestinal polypeptide nasal spray for the peptide. Yeah. The VIP peptide. Yeah. Yeah. But you can do that and then maybe some silver spray and you can get rid of something that's literally living in your fucking nasal cavity. Yeah. You got shit that's living inside of your nose. These like, what the like micro organisms. Yes. And, uh, yeah, there's Cleasbray, which is just XLEA. I know that somebody knows how to pronounce it. Yeah. Whatever. I mean, it's clearly a spray. Clear spray. Somewhere along the way low energy just gets accepted as a part of getting older. Turns out there's a reason for that. As we age on mitochondria, the parts of our cells that power us become weaker and make less energy, which is why I'm such a huge fan of timeline. They've developed

35:31this that helps to clear out your damaged mitochondria so your cells can actually renew themselves. Timeline is backed by over a decade of research and has more than 50 patents and is the number one recommended mitochondrial supplement on the planet. This isn't just theory. In clinical trials, people saw mitochondrial renewal increased by more than 40% in just 16 weeks, along with improvements in their overall energy. I've been using it for over two years since my doctor recommended it to me way before I partnered with Timeline and eat your heart out Martin Schreley because they just dropped the price and it now starts at $99. Best of all, there is a 30 day money back guarantee plus free shipping in the US plus their ship internationally. And right now, you can get that $99 price within additional 20% off by going to the link in the description below, heading to timeline.com slash modern wisdom using the code modern wisdom. Check out that's timeline.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom. Check out. So why why a GLP is a concern for succopiniate and are you more worried about succopiniate than osteoporosis? I'm worried about both and that is a great

36:33question. We've never had the ability to lose this much weight, this fast outside of bariatric surgery. We are at the intersection of something that we've never seen before, which is very unusual in medicine to be at a place that we've never been. We now have the capacity to reduce weight, magnitudes, then of weight that we've never had before, which means if in fact, these drugs are utilized, which I think the number is they're expecting somewhere along between 40 to 60 million people on these medications. It's like 20% of Americans. Yeah, plus all the people who are just like using gray market stuff and not even talking to you like, hopefully, things are going to evolve there. But what is going to happen is if obesity has been our focus, which it has been for the last 50 years, we haven't gotten very far. All of a sudden, GLP ones are now available. Obesity will become less of a problem, but the fact that people are sedentary, sarcopenia, the loss of muscle mass and strength is going to become a primary problem,

37:37which then we know how bone is formed. And by the way, osteoporosis is a pediatric disease with geriatric outcomes. osteoporosis is a pediatric disease with geriatric outcomes. You explained for the idiot in the room. Yeah, yeah. That's right. We mean what you do when you are younger to protect bone and muscle. Please roll in because so yeah, so she was saying it's like predictive of your osteoporotic status, late in life. So we are athletes athletes that lose their menstrual cycle are very underweight. People that have struggled with anorexia end up having very low bone mineral density. Yeah. And then our risk for osteoporosis is kind of strange to hear, you know, three people in a room who are quite forward thinking, quite experimental, open to new evidence, being skeptical about GLPs. I understand obesity was a problem for a long time. We've got this intervention, which appears to fix the obesity thing. And now there's all of these potential side effects that we don't, in fact, they're not even side effects. They're more like

38:41second order consequences. That's probably a better way to look at them, rather than side effects. What else, but how do you guys feel about the potential for millions, tens of millions of people to be taking GLPs over the next decade or so? I think one of the big challenges, and this is what you just touched on is in traditional medicine. It's an insurance model. And this is my forte. And the challenge with that traditional model is you are based off an indication, and that indication is both based off a specific dosage. And so these trials were based off chronically sick morbidly obese people, right? This was originally going to be a diabetes medication. And so all of the initial days were the lion's share of human clinical data comes from. Correct. And so then the problem is you take that and you roll it out to the general population and every 30, 3 B.M. And now every housewife in Malibu was using it to lose 10 pounds for vacation. Guess what else it does? And this is not really talked about. It has different sexual side effects if you are a man or a woman. Is that like the anhydonia thing where it

39:42is just pleasure? But it's more pronounced in one sex. Yes. So in women. And the data is still emerging because we haven't been using it. That's your own bread. For my wife. So for men, you're so lean. It's a lean but no one I can't have sex with you. So for men, it can increase testosterone. It can decrease body fat, decrease estrogen, and it can increase sex drive. But what we're starting to see for women is that it can again decrease body fat, but it also seems to decrease sex drive. So just give them some PT-141 nasal spray and we're back on the races, right? Or we study women more. Yeah. Or we study women more. And perhaps we get to your point specialized dosing. Because the problem is in that model, I'd literally write before we walked in here, got a text from somebody who said, my wife's trezepotide is no longer covered by insurance. And they're trying to move her to a dosage that would be covered. Okay. That's you're going to move her up to a higher dosage to get insurance to higher doses.

40:46Yes. Even though she was getting the efficacy out of the lower dose. Right. And that's which is the problem. Insurance companies, I've broke this down on your podcast too before. It's a big challenge because 30% of the revenue of an insurance company comes from monetizing drugs. So they are changing dosages based off rebates and what rebate pays them the most. And so you may be on an efficacious dosage that's working great for you. But they may go, yeah, we're not covering that one anymore. You've got to bump up. Yeah, which is super interesting because of efficacious dose. I mean, we were just talking about .25, which is a micro dose that suppresses food noise. That for a lot of people is enough. No, we're near enough to get covered by insurance. But then these larger doses is where you see the issue back to sarcopenia where you're told you're supposed to go to the gym and lift weights. And the only way for you to do that without feeling flat is to eat a good meal. But you sit in front of your favorite smoothie or pre-workout or whatever and you get nauseous trying it. So then you're flat in the gym. And so this is like the whole gray man hypothesis where the road that we're going down is getting really smart,

41:50getting getting big like AI potentially like, you know, hardware infused brains will our body waste away in the little stick figures. And the gray men are us from the future. And you hope he wants it. I think we have testosterone. Is the dosage a pre-click pen? Is that why people can't? Because when I think, oh, this is the dosage, I just think about a vial and an insulin syringe and you go, well, I'll just draw more or less. So those companies are launching those other dosages to give more mobility to patients and options. So the commercially available companies, the manufacturers, our compounders have been doing that for the last five years. But that still goes back to it's going to be based off what was in the clinical trials and what dosage were showed to be efficacious in those trials, which is again, an obese patient population. And if you want insurance to cover it, insurance is going to be following the literature. And so now we're in a space where we don't really understand and know micro dosing. We do know that you'll be one's affect muscle positively, despite what you're seeing,

42:55in the literature, which is it reduces muscle mass. The majority of the fat, the majority of the mass loss is fat. But why I think I actually think the GLP ones are really good, is it it has the potential to improve muscle quality. Imagine. By reducing intramusstial trigotrides. Imagine you have a wagyu steak. You go on a GLP one, you inject it, your wagyu steak becomes like a filet. So the texture and the composition can improve the GLP one. So we need it. I believe that we need it because we have not been effective before. And again, I don't think body fat is the major problem. I think it's intramuscular. That is true. That a lot of the studies on, I think it was primarily read a true tide that showed muscle loss. We're done via dexay evaluations, which couldn't differentiate between lean mass loss coming from muscle or lean mass loss coming from something like intramusstial triglyceryzer or other things that would actually be a positive.

43:58That's it. When it comes to loss. But if you're not eating a food, the muscle loss thing is still a pretty, pretty big risk. To try and recap why we're out here because that's fucking mind blowing. The studies that have been done are mostly on mobility obese people, because they're mobility obese, they're given quite high dosages. When it comes to the prescribed prescriber approved dosages that people can take because they need to follow the science. That means that even people who are looking to lose a little bit of weight and might be able to get efficacious effects from micro dosing, they need to be given the big boy dosages because they're the only ones that currently have been studied in the literature. Is that right? It's a attempt to try and land the ship and thread the needle and get insurance coverage. Then the initial, other ones, the initial prescriptions for the first few years were preloaded syringes. You couldn't have the auto-solomy to shift. When we were seeing muscle waste, it's like, yeah, because a lot of these people are taking away higher dosages than they should have been taking. Their doctors just trying to give them a solution. Then nose-saving the

45:00weight. When they don't need to, they could get away with 0.25. Gabriel was saying the muscle loss is not necessarily a direct mechanism of cause of the GLP itself and some of the actual loss from that might be favorable. It's the loss that occurs from simply not being able to get into the gym and or inadequate protein because you've got such low energy because you're not eating. And low-food volume. What's the mechanism for the sex drive in women? Dopamine. Dopamine, brain, reward pathways. The pathways are very similar and they're looking at GLP1 for alcohol addiction and drug addiction. It's not truly... Anything that's hedonic. Anything that's hedonic. It's not solely just related to body fat and appetite. It has brain effects. It's not only found in the gut and slowing like, making you feel full and slowing gastric. Empteen, it's also, you have GLP1 in the brain and so it impacts your dopamine response. Desire generally. I brought this up with... I brought this up with Rogen. It's like what happens when our entire economy is driven on consumerism and you

46:04pharmacologically suppress desire. Right? Like most people are buying shit, not things that they need, just things that they want. And it's sort of repeat habituation. I'm just going to satisfy, satiate myself and yeah, maybe it's sex, maybe it's video games, maybe it's porn, maybe it's social media, maybe it's weed. So you're going down the GLP to GDP. Right, but here's what was... Very nice. Well, I totally missed that, but it's like the mom and the room. But what's happening is that so I see patients in my clinic, right? Strong medical people are getting a little depressed. They don't get the same enjoyment from sex, from eating or from spending. People on GLP's different... Yes. And now I want to be really clear, I'm not anti-GLP ones. I mean, we prescribe them. But it's the idea that kind of what Brigham is saying is that we understand the utilization in trials with sick people with type 2 diabetes. We don't really know all of the other secondary outcomes that this can cause. And again, part of them are positive, but decreased sex

47:08drive, fun, mood, all of those things, those are a problem. I remember looking at... Yes. It's a great aid for stoicism. I looked at some research around bariatric surgery outcomes, and there's an increase in suicide risk after bariatric surgery, but it's not just because it's highly traumatic and sometimes it's infections and sometimes like idiot surgeons close you up with gauze still inside of you and things can go wrong. It's that typically people who are sufficiently overweight that they use bariatric surgery are eating to deal with something that's happening in their lives. They've had that pathway of reward and sedation taken away from them, but the problem still exists. So now what you're talking about here is, hey, you're using GLP's to help yourself lose weight. The weight loss has been curtailed, but the reason that you overrate is still exists. And the same thing goes with all those video games. You're to go to Dr. Lines it's practice. I guarantee you're doing a full work up. You're assessing the blood work and you're looking at the patient holistically. Of course. If you go into a primary care practice in

48:09an insurance model, they have six minutes with a patient on average. They want to put a win on the board for that patient that patient's asking for a GLP one that patient probably is pre diabetic or diabetic that patient probably does have weight to lose, but what is the root cause of this illness? And these are the symptoms, not the root cause. And then they prescribe the GLP one without ever saying do they have a hormonal inadequacy? Do they have a family history of mental health issues, depression, anxiety? You're doing all that. You have the ability in a cash model. And you bring up another really good point that say someone needs to lose weight. Again, we have to recognize we have been very unsuccessful. Now we have a tool that makes us successful. However, let me pose it to you this way. If you, Brigham had low thyroid and you were hypothyroid, well, you might try to get to the root cause, but let's just say you have low thyroid and I give you thyroid replacement to normalize your levels. You wouldn't think twice, right? I'm going somewhere with this.

49:10Yes. If you had trouble seeing, let's say your eyes got older, if I gave you glasses, that wouldn't be an issue. No, it would affect my sex appeal a little. I would push back. I would ask for contacts. Fine. But wait, I'm going somewhere with this. But if someone comes into your point with, say, low testosterone as a woman or a man, they are now juicing. They are now on steroids. So this is a problem, not that your testosterone is low. I'm going to give you testosterone to bring you up to a normal level. We're not talking about optimization. We're not talking about enhancement. We are talking about someone is using a GLP one now has low testosterone, man or woman. And the thing, the balance, let's say they have low sex hormones because of the industry stigma in general. Everyone at this table is very interested in health. But for the average person, if you go, Hey, I'm on testosterone. They're like, Oh my gosh, you're juicing

50:12you're on steroids. Right. Because you're saying it's not on. Don't understand. There's a stigma in primary care too with testosterone. So real world example and he covered this on Joe is jelly roll. We've helped him lose 250 pounds. Everyone immediately assumes we put him on a GLP one. No, we ran his blood work. He had low testosterone. He was chronically inflamed. He had all sorts of other biometric issues unrelated to discipline. And all we did was fix those root causes. He never took a GLP one into this day. Everyone's like, and I sell GLP ones. I would tell you if he took it. It'd be great. Yeah. The guy did it with blood, sweat and tears, diet, lifestyle and nutrition. Yeah. Intestine, yeah. Optimize hormones. Yes. But in general medicine, they view it as testosterone as the boogie. Yeah. It's a misunderstanding between hypogonatism and super physiological dosing of testosterone and not understanding the sweet spot in between. And I still, you know, like I was watching Pete Heizgas recent video about putting war fighters on testosterone. He was putting warfers on testosterone or screening or yeah, screening for that.

51:17I still like to see that conversation couched in the discussion of like lifts weights with your legs where there's a high concentration of Androgen receptors and cover the bases like creatine and zinc and boron and Omega's and magnesium and some of the upstream precursors, you know, look into sleep, look into recovery and then make the decision. So I know you guys aren't saying just like throw testosterone really nilly. You see, you did blood work with jelly roll. I think the problem is like it is, it is massive. The number of people who are hypogonadil, number men in particular, hypogonadil. I don't think that testosterone replacement therapy is the first solution, but sometimes it is the most effective solution, especially in a scenario where you're unable like in a warfighter. And we, I want to live the optimized. Very important, very important conversation. What you are saying is absolutely correct. We are seeing a decrease in testosterone year after year. Obesity goes up, behaviors go down, people are eating, not sleeping, all sorts of things. There is a medical risk when someone has low testosterone,

52:24for heart disease, for osteoporosis, cognition, depression. So if I had one dream in this room of strong men and powerful men, we would clear up the idea of a testosterone revolution. And we would clear up this idea that testosterone is steroids. And somehow I can give medication to make someone have less fat. But if I give medication to someone to have them build muscle, it's a problem. If you and your partner sleep best at different temperatures, it is time that you join this in the modern world and got an eight sleep. I've always wanted to try eight sleep. Which type of the bed do you prefer? I usually take left, but I am flexible. You're not sleeping in my bed. When you said partner, I just assumed. I've been a romantic partner. Of course. Eight sleeps pod five is a smart mattress covered that actively cools or heats each side of the bed way up to 20 degrees. So if you run hot and your partner runs cold, you're both happy. So hypothetically, if your bro was sleeping over, what's out of the bed would you prefer?

53:27Not 12. There are no sleep overs, okay? Best of all, it's got upgraded sensors that run health checks while you're asleep, tracking things like abnormal heartbeats or sudden HIV changes. What if I just slept at the end of your bed like a dog? John wife kick you out again. She did. Fine, okay? Yes. Pod five, it cools, it heats, it elevates, and it's clinically proven to give you up to one hour more of quality sleep every night. And if you're still on the fence, they have a 30 day sleep trial plus a ship internationally. Right now, you can get up to $350 off the pod five by going to the link in the description below, are heading to eightsleep.com slash modern wisdom using the code modern wisdom. A checkout that's e i g h t sleep.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom. A checkout. Why do you think testosterone becomes so demonized? You know, make your blood super thick. So in the 30s, people used testosterone. It was discovered in the 30s as a medical intervention. And there was one study that came out by Huggins. And it showed

54:31that testosterone caused prostate cancer. So in the 30s, people were using it as a medical intervention. It wasn't, there wasn't a stigma associated with it. At the same time, people were interested. We're seeing increase in sport performance, right? Because we do know that testosterone increases muscle mass combined testosterone training you get better out. And motivation for forward motion. All of these things for decades, people would cast straight men because they were worried that it was going to make or start prostate cancer and treat prostate cancer. The study was wrong. There were only three patients in this study. I can't believe you know that. So there were three patients in this study. So they castrated men. They didn't know what anyone was doing. We didn't give men testosterone. No, they suppressed antigen. They actually tied over bands or other balls. Yeah, there were three patients. They don't. Because they were, because it's Huggins study said if you've got too much testosterone, you might get prostate cancer. That's what we'll call it. Or if you have prostate cancer, yeah, they were shaking. It was kind of hard to survive with this. It was wrong. It was wrong. It was all dogma that

55:35then got adopted by the medical establishment. It was wrong. Can you imagine like whoops? And this was debunked by Dr. Morgan Tyler, a prime urologist in the 90s. How did it take 60 years? I know. This is the problem. It took 60 years and now we're seeing the opposite. Yeah. Testosterone doesn't cause these things testosterone. There is a risk for having low testosterone. Testosterone doesn't cause prostate cancer. Testosterone doesn't make cardiovascular disease worse. There is all of these myths, which is really important, but we got it wrong. So if you think about what Dr. Morgan Tyler uncovered is it comes down to saturation level. So think of receptor sites. You can only water a plant so much. So if a plant gets no water, it dies. If a plant gets too much water, it dies. Receptor sites are the same way. You can only water that plant so much. So as men had no testosterone chemically castrated, their risk of prostate cancer was statistically less because you have no testosterone, but you have a higher risk of

56:37every other form of cancer. You have a higher risk of metabolic disease. Most of the risk losing bone mass of testosterone, not what we thought they were. And they're a little like, excess aromatization and conversion to estrogen if it's improperly managed. So you can get emotional issues or genocomastia or increased conversion to DHT, which can cause male pattern baldness. But these are not like a life or death issues. And most of those issues occur when you push patients, you'll enjoy a long time. And there's a difference between enhancement and replacement of something the body already makes. And for the military operators, so I had Tim Parletori, who is the attorney who submitted the memo on the podcast that we haven't released yet. And the idea is that if you have low testosterone, you are at a disadvantage. If we send guys to war, we're not talking about enhancement. We are talking about guys that are symptomatic with hypogonatism,

57:39with low levels of testosterone. If we don't even screen right now, they're not even screening. If we don't screen, we are sending to war guys with a massive disadvantage. Suboptimal. Suboptimal. Every single soldier to have 2009ograms, but definitely. Yes, I fucking do. Yes, I fucking do. No, remember, don't go on to emotional who can't control their raid. I want that's what I want. Bald, age and shoes. Yeah, exactly. Just fucking a stick skin. Oh, hair. Not wrong. But we don't have a trending list of high. We just fucking each other. Tiny balls. Just fucking everywhere. Yes, no. So sideways. Listen, as a military family, as a Navy family, with high testosterone. With high, yes, my husband, yes, has high testosterone. We would never want those warfighters going in. And you know, I want to say something else is that people are saying, well, what about the women? Well, considering only about 10 people have read the memo, women will also be screened. They're also complicated. Like, it is more complicated. But if we can get screening done

58:42initially to protect our soldiers, then we have a way to do something about it. We can fix and identify and acknowledge that there's a problem. But the fact that it is so controversial, the fact that it has gotten people so upset is outrageous. But you do see a political camp. This is an agenda. I'm sorry to get conspiratorial, but I've watched it. And I've been behind the scenes and I've been all the way to DC. And I've set at the FDA, I've testified at the FDA. I've watched this play out the same thing that happened with men in testosterone, having with women and women's hormones with the women's health initiative. And I was a med or was a drug rep when they released that study. And the first thing the company did was hand me osteoporosis drugs and all of a sudden, all of us were carrying osteoporosis drugs. And our job was to go into doctors and scare the hell out of them about you should never put a woman on estrogen again. You need to put them on an osteoporosis drug to preserve their bone mineral density. But guess what? That most of your procyst drug is exasperated hot flashes, which is another issue. Now they need a hot flash drug. So you're selling them for drugs to fix

59:47what one natural hormone would have fixed that was there since the dawn of time. But the whole study was flawed to begin with. And that all got debunked. But it took 20 something years to bring estrogen back to women. I don't know how much the cultural conversation and the pushback around testosterone is to do with people understanding a study of three people from 1930. I think it's much more cultural than that. I think it's much more of a what does testosterone represent generally? I think that and also the same type of treatment that GLP1 is given in terms of perception of taking a short cut. Right. Testosterone is often perceived the same way. You're not going to go lift weights and you're not going to pay attention to lifestyle factors and you're just going to throw a bandaid on it. But no one cares about taking GLP1. No one's accusing somebody that lost a ton of weight on GLPs of being non-naty. Right. Right. But if you ever do a six week course of fucking an antheid, that means for the rest of your time. You're not in status as God. So what is it? Why that? What's the difference? And I think this is a good split test. You have two drugs,

1:00:52delivery mechanisms, not two dissimilar ones. I am one's subcue. Both of them. Both can be subcue actually. So you can use them in similar ways. They achieve similar things like a leaner, more built physique. Why is it that testosterone's got this? Is it the sort of masculineized side of this? Is it aggression? What do you think? I think it's the performance enhancing benefits in sports and that's created a dogma around everybody. I think it goes beyond sports. I mean, there is simply a perception I think that if someone is on testosterone, they are taking a little bit of a shortcut when it comes to muscle mass recovery. If they're low, are they taking a shortcut? If their hypogonaddle, they're not taking a shortcut. They're addressing a deficiency, but they're still the perception that you're not doing the work. And I think that feeds into, I think some of it is the unfairness potentially of the sports performance angle as well. What happened to the Indian ask you? What's the question for you? Do you not think that the indication is wrong today?

1:01:54Like the clinically low to have to be very careful about this. You are way too well read. So basically what he's saying is our indication of 300 nanograms per deciliter. It's in different countries depending on where you live in Italy. It might be 350. That will determine what your definition of hypogonaddle is. So the lower range of normal from a normal adult male in the US at the moment is 300 nanograms per deciliter. And that's too low. In my opinion, what the upper amount? You think the lower range should be raised. I think that again, I want to couch this very carefully as a practicing physician who does this. This is not medical advice. This is a fucking no. But listen, but so I'm going to give you the answer. Pass it to me and I'm going to say it on my doctor. So what I'm saying is that it's not just the number. So there is other things that go into effect, for example, and I figured this out. I had a guy who it was from Homeland Security and his testosterone was 600 and he had all the signs and symptoms of low T and I'm like, brother,

1:02:58I'm not putting you on test. Just get more sleep. You're going to be great. And it turns out he had a CAG repeat, a C-A-J repeat. So the testosterone that he had wasn't effective because he had issues with the receptors. We all have different receptors. A testosterone of 900 for you might equal a testosterone of 300 for a pregnant. Right. And then the CAG repeat is not a SHBG free available testosterone. It's an actual receptor issue. Whether or not it's going to come up up a lot to free. You have to get a system. It's still not interacting with the receptor. And we don't test those routinely. It's primarily done in research. We're still gathering the data as what the impact is. But the idea that number one, that testosterone is going to cause harm in physiologic ranges. So if someone is 300 or 500 but feel like crap and it looks like they need testosterone, but they don't measure low, you know, in the medical world, we are, according to guidelines and not supposed to essentially treat that. That's where I was running it. A lot of

1:03:58that is insurance based too. And we go back to this whole conundrum of like you can practice a sick care model and it's a challenge because every single personalized medicine is exactly that. It should be personalized. Each individual is different. And their physiological response is different. Insurance will cover 299 and not 301. What does does the RT create the same problem that the ozemic does? Like people have pharmacologically solving a problem that lifestyle should have partially fixed. Is it an artificial solution to an artificial problem? I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that goes back to what I was saying earlier about lifting weights and microgniture and replenishment and relationships and sunlight and destressing recovery and sleep. If you have all of those parameters in place, which a lot of people nowadays do, I think there can still be anything from environmental factors that influence testosterone availability. This is the endocrine disruptor discussion, the plastic discussion, personal care products and food wrapped in plastic, which I think can affect that. There is the industrial pollution,

1:05:00air pollution, even like light pollution having an effect on the stress and sleep component. Like I think we have a bigger uphill battle, including the fact that not a lot of guys are like chopping wood and building fences and and and hauling rocks outdoors. And so I think it's a cluster of factors that influence a modern lifestyle, putting you at a higher risk for hypogonus. We definitely have higher higher levels of low tea than we ever have as a society. But then you also look like my good friend, Kali, means breaks down the whole food system and ultra-process foods. And when did we see that spike? The big changes started happening in the 80s. And we can go back to like the infancy of how that occurred. As soon as the government began to regulate big tobacco, big tobacco, JP, JP food morris or whatever went out and started acquiring most of the major food production companies. And most of those major food production companies pivoted from healthy foods, more hearty meals to ultra-process foods. Ultra-process foods have a 30 plus percent profit margin.

1:06:01A banana has like an 8 to 10 percent profit margin. So it's our food systems, it's our glyphosate rules and regulations around our crops. All of those things are controlled in much bigger dynamics. All I hear right now is that cigarette companies have made us less yoked. But here's the problem. Let's say you take the warfighter, everything that we named here is a luxury. The idea that you can son your perineum and that you can go to bed early and you can sleep in and you can reduce light pollution. These are all luxuries that a warfighter, a new mom, are not going to have. And so if we restrict, if we restrict the ability to treat based on allowing them to solve for lifestyle factors first, there is enough evidence to support that low testosterone contributes to disease risk that I wouldn't wait. Why would I? You don't have the degrees of freedom within your lifestyle for certain people that have got

1:07:04constraints on their sleep, constraints on their ability to eat, etc. I guess Ben, you experimented a lot, obviously every performance intervention under the sun. Where does testosterone rank for you like compared with sleep or resistance training or light or diet, stress, stuff like that? How it is. In my defense, I actually have not son my perineum. So recently, since I've been in Austin, I haven't had the opportunity. I think it depends primarily on age. So I've been on testosterone for four years. I began when I was 40. The main thing I noticed was being able to recover a lot faster, being able to hit the gym for what I do in the morning that keeps me sane, keeps me active and keeps me productive and keeps my head clear. I can continue to do that day after day, whereas I was noting a significant increase in the amount of time that I needed for recovery between workouts just based on HRV, based on soreness. So I would rank it

1:08:06higher and higher in order of priority. The older a man gets. I know we're talking about man, but obviously women are part of this discussion as well. Which they haven't really been studying nearly as well. And I would say somewhere in the range of 35 to 40 years old and most men, Gabriel probably has the actual demographic data somewhere tucked away, that giant book. It becomes pretty important. So I would say for me, as I age, increasingly important. Can I just... One other thing that we should mention, of course, is the fertility discussion. The younger you are, and this is the problem with the old looks, maxing community of dudes totally screwing themselves over from a legacy and childhood standpoint when they're 16 years old. We do need to bear in mind that a 30 year old who may be hypo-gonaddle and may still face some of this uphill battle in terms of a post-industrial lifestyle or a modern lifestyle, keeping them that way and not being able to do things besides testosterone replacement therapy needs to know there's an impact on fertility and their practitioner needs to be aware of methods to maintain...

1:09:06Did I throw this in quality? I froze my sperm last year. Just in case I ever wanted to get on TRT at some point. I'm not on it. I was like, I just feel like it's probably a good insurance policy and it is so cheap. You want to talk about some fucking patriarchy. One of the places that it definitely exists is how cheap it is for guys to freeze their sperm compared with the ones to freeze their sperm. Well, it's probably less expensive if you're using Mike's butcher shop down the street for the flammable. It's a great solution. And also, we just because someone goes on testosterone, there are... Like you had mentioned, there are interventions like HCG. You have to work with a provider that knows it doesn't mean you're going to be infertile. 10% of men just at baseline have low fertility. Two percent of men are like nose sperm. So if a guy is hypogonadol and he's younger, he should still be treated. You should bank his sperm. You should give him the appropriate discussion. Give him some HCG. But you wouldn't want to withhold a medical treatment. I just think it's

1:10:07a mistake. And if we don't destigmatize the idea that somehow testosterone is going to ruin the world and make them proud. It's wrapped up in a moral panic. I'm kind of fascinated by I've never thought about it before, but the equivalency of GLPs on one side and testosterone on the other. Like morally, there shouldn't really be much difference between the two. One is helping you eat less and one is helping you build more muscle and your hormonal profile to improve. I get the sense that a good bit of it is that one side is quite male coded and one is to do with aggression and sort of dominance and pursuit and forward motion. And another is somewhat more female coded, which is that it's helping you to lose weight. Maybe it'll be a little bit more slender and this looks like health. And the other one looks more like luxury, perhaps or a necessary enhancement. Everybody knows a fat person that loses weight. You didn't need that. So you can see it visually. You can't see someone's low testosterone in the same way. So I want to that's what really interesting. But what happens when a woman goes on a GLP one and her testosterone

1:11:11is low, she tells her sister, I have low testosterone. I'm going to start testosterone. She's like, oh my god, you're going to start steroids. And then she's shame. But so we know that a person will go on, typically a GLP one for two years and come off. Now essentially, there's a weight cycling. So it becomes a skinny fat situation and they've lost now lean tissue and they put on fat. And let's say in a profile of a decreasing milieu, her estrogen goes down, her testosterone goes down, all her hormones go down. But then because of the stigma, she's ridiculed or ashamed because now she's on steroids. And so in a moment where we have the ability to shift her life and her trajectory, she doesn't take it because of all the noise that she's now juicing. And that's that's a problem. I didn't even realize the stigma was that significant for women. It is. And testosterone for a man is the number one biomarker. There is no other biomarker that reflects the

1:12:12risk of type two diabetes that reflects the risk of potential depression. And when you say biomarkers, the whole hormone. And all of them total cheat free tea, everything. Yeah. Well, I mean, so I would say total testosterone because again, it's really free tea, which is a really good point. But if I had to pick one biomarker, it would be testosterone. So let's say if we take that back to soldiers, if we and we don't routinely screen them, that one biomarker will give us more information into their future than any other biomarker. I want to know what's happening with peptide access right now because you were part of this big hearing that really happened. If you're going to spend an hour in the gym, you might as well look hard and feel comfortable while you're doing it. And honestly, who wants to be in the background of a TikTok is highlight reel dressed like a chump. Gymshark makes some of the best men's and women's training gear on the planet. And something that I realized a few years ago is that when you actually like what you're wearing in the gym, you show up differently. You train harder, you stay longer and get way more high fives. The hybrid shorts are my go-to. They

1:13:13are the perfect length, super lightweight, easy to wash and dry. And they're sleeveless t-shirts that I've trained in every day for basically the last decade. They're the ideal fit, they're breathable, they hold their shape perfectly. No more looking like Adam Sandler's your stylist. Basically, everything they make is unbelievably well designed. You already know about them, the high quality. You get 30 days of free returns globally with global shipping and attempt scent discount sight wide. So get the attempt scent discount by going to the link in the description below, heading to gym.sh slash modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom 10, a checkout that's gym.sh slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom 10, a checkout. What happened inside of the FDA? So, what's going on? No, thank you. That's a good question. So, I've been trying to ring the bell on this since it started during the Biden administration, the FDA, kind of in a vacuum blindsided the public by putting peptides on the naughty list and said these 17 peptides are now considered dangerous to compound, meaning overnight the regulatory landscape shifted. And so compounding pharmacies like mine legally could not make a safe product that had been in the

1:14:18market oftentimes for more than five to six years. And with no heads up, we weren't seeing adverse safety data, nothing. One of the ways that I've tried to prove this is I submitted multiple FOIA requests to the FDA over the last three years and they had not responded to a single FOIA request. So when Secretary Kennedy was put into this position and was given the opportunity to try and drive change, this was one of the first things I discussed with him was, hey, we've submitted these FOIA requests. We haven't gotten answers, industries just asking for guidance. We're not making this, but you created a gray and black market overnight. And so just two weeks ago, they federally indicted a gray market peptide manufacturer out of Florida, who was buying all of his API from China that was not tainted with testosterone. And so women were injecting. And API is the pharmaceutical ingredients. So it's the the base product that you use to compound the medication. So that being said, after a lot of lobbying, begging, pleading, and flights to DC. And thank God

1:15:24for guys like Joe. I'll say, you know, Rogan's been a voice on this and ringing the bell that, hey, why are we banning peptides? Why are we forcing people to gray and black market? We had a hearing. So and that's a crazy story in itself. We could write a book on it. Literally, they had the group built out. We submitted over 800 studies, 800, eight, eight, 5000 pages of documents. We did a retrospective analysis of 16 million patients that were on BPC 157. Out of that, we found three adverse events, three adverse events. Yeah. Some of you said that there by the hundreds of thousands of uses of multiple peptides, including BPC and like the number of adverse events was close to zero. Correct. And versus let's look at this. This is one of the largest retrospective analysis is ever done of a medication. And so I want to be clear, because another famous influencer clinician just took to the internet and tried to debunk this hearing. The hearing wasn't about efficacy. This is what this is a confusion for people. It's all about safety because what people

1:16:29fell to realize, again, going back to the process and the legal structure, if you file for a new drug indication, what I am asking you for is to give me Medicare, Medicaid, try care dollars. I'm asking you to force employers to cover a treatment for an employee because 90% of Americans get their coverage through employers. And so that's the reason insurance plans go up every year, because they're monetizing all this stuff. And so this is not that world. This is a cash pay product for a patient using their hard-earned money to decide under the supervision of a clinician to fulfill this prescription through a board certified pharmacy that is inspected by both the state and federal government. And we had a safe pathway. And that pathway was removed in a vacuum with no evidence. And then we went and argued with evidence submitted over 5,000 pages of studies. And the FDA in this environment gave these clinicians literally like a week to review everything. So these doctors, these poor doctors are trying to cram for the test before they come in here.

1:17:31And we had submitted it a month in advance. And then the FDA releases a statement to the public with a black market peptide API data set saying we are going to stand against this most likely even if these clinicians vote yes. And by the way, here's a certificate of analysis from a compounding pharmacy. It wasn't a compounding pharmacy. It was a fucking black market manufacturer that had already been shut down. So it was very misleading. That's a difficult question to ask. I don't again, when we sat in there, the clinicians began to get so frustrated that at one point, one of the FDA individuals said, Hey, look, I just want to be clear. We're not intentionally hiding or misrepresenting data. And the clinician was basically saying, well, yeah, it really feels like that. Like it doesn't feel like you were giving us a shot at this. They ended up overturning six out of the seven peptides. But here is what was disappointing, though, is the FDA all voted straight line one way. The clinicians that use these products and are actually clinicians end users in the medical space all voted straight line. Yes. And it was like, but here,

1:18:35which pathways they run this is a really good point because maybe you can clear this up is that physicians, practicing physicians will say, well, why are there no randomized control trials? Yeah. Why is this data mechanistic data? Why rodent models and mom models? If you can prove it mechanistically, then we should be able to see it in some type of randomized control trial. And I think that. And so we yeah, that's that's great. So actually on BPC, we submitted I think four or six human studies. I can't remember. I don't want to tell the say four to be safe. At least four human studies. Now the issue with a peptide is you cannot patent something that is readily available in nature. That's patent law in the United States. So look at what's going on with the GLP once a 503 a patient specific pharmacy can compound a GLP one weight loss drug. It is infuriating the big pharmaceutical cartels because they're like, wait a second, we spent billions of dollars to make these drugs. And so a lot of the pressure on peptides as a class has come because big pharma is monetizing these at a new level. And so in one breath, you've got these big

1:19:39pharmaceutical companies telling the FDA, these are dangerous, these are this, these are that. In the next breath, Eli Lilly goes and spends seven billion dollars to acquire a peptide manufacturer out of China. Merck is attempting to patent over 200 potential future cutting peptides. But a lot of the physicians who are or were prescribing peptides, they they have a pathway via an IRB to be able to start to gather data, right? To to right. And they there's show what's actually working. But again, an I and D. And so the and this is the general gist of the FDA stance from what I can gather being at this, I testified and gave my two cents on what I think and where we are and how we got here. But the general rebuttal of the FDA as a stance is, well, we have an I and D process. So go get a new drug indication. And my rebuttal is apothecary precedes big pharma. The founder of Pfizer was a compounder compounding has been in existence for over 100 years in 1997. Congress passed a bill to protect compounders that said we are going to allow the patients

1:20:44and clinicians to prescribe unique medications to a patient and provide accessibility. And the problem is if we hand the keys to the castle over to industry. And I said this in my speech to the Senate. If Eisenhower everyone talks about Eisenhower's speech and the military industrial complex, the second half of Eisenhower speech, she talked about the scientific industrial complex. And what would happen if we hand science over to industry and if we allow industry to control our scientific processes and protocols. And that is where we are headed. And that is terrifying. Because what you will have is everyone getting the same dose GLP one. But even everyone getting the same because this is what we have a double blind placebo controlled trial on. And this is where academia drives me mad because when Rogan posted his pictures of plasma for esis, some dipshit doctor like talks about how it actually immune system. No, this is a 24 hour decrease in your immune response. And he talked about how there's no this is not this is pseudo science plasma for esis does have a double blind placebo controlled randomized trial. And that double blind placebo

1:21:46randomized trial showed that it actually took 18 months off of your biological age on people over the age of 50. But people want to split hairs and decide when they want to use double blind placebo controlled trial randomized trials and when they don't. Well, here's what I've seen in medicine. But this is what is so relevant here is that there's a need for improved care. And because there's a need that's why people are reaching for peptides. That's why people are looking for plasma for esis. Typically the consumer, the patient will drive forward say plasma for esis for something that is different than say myisinia gravis or something that is an indication. But this is how we start to grow. I mean, before no one thought mold was a thing, I moved to New York. I got really sick. No one was talking about mold or whatever 15 years ago. And all my blood work was great. And I was living in, you know, stachy botrous. And now environmental testing is more of a thing. But

1:22:48there is the patient. And then there's the need that we have to fulfill. And hopefully the science catches up. The idea of randomized controlled trials, I mean, they're valuable. We still need that for peptides. Maybe not within your sphere. But the general medical community, they need randomized. My argument is this is an, this is about medical excessive accessibility and medical freedom. And if a patient under the supervision of a clinician, under the guidance of a subject matter expert, wants to utilize a compound that is safe, who is the federal government to obstruct a safe pathway and force them to a dangerous pathway. And if people love randomized controlled trials, I would say, let's look at the products that have hit the market. What happened with oxy cotton? What happened with all of the anti-inflammatories? What happened with antidepressants? In the second largest retrospective study analysis of a drug that went through randomized controlled trials, what did we see? 25 years later, what we saw as antidepressants don't fucking work. They work for a small subset of the population. They barely differentiate from placebo.

1:23:53Yet they increased suicidal ideation, suicidal tendencies, violent thoughts. Most of the school shooters were on antidepressants. We have created a colossal disaster for a product that in its own scale that was developed from a Pfizer consultant does not differentiate barely by one point from placebo. But yet we've spent trillions of dollars on these meditations. I'm sure it's an outspent that brought you by saffron. Who gets to decide how much risk people should be able to take with their bodies? Should the FDA protect people from making bad medical decisions or what point basically, how much evidence should be required before adults can access experimental treatment? That's a difficult one. I think it's risk reward. I say this with everything. Again, every ant peptides are not a silver bullet, right? They're a tool in the tool belt. But for somebody who's a real world example is Brett Brett Farbe, he's diagnosed with Parkinson's. This Parkinson's is terminal. It is progressive. The doctors basically say we've got nothing, but there are things

1:24:56that can help that have a shot at helping in a lot of those trials are in other countries and not accepted here. But there are modalities that he's getting benefits from. Those modalities are being obstructed. I believe in a patient's right to choose. One of the things we're working on here in Texas, Congresswoman Lacey Hol is going to submit a bill in Texas that's going to be called the right to tri-act. The right to tri-act is going to try and provide patients in Texas with medical freedom. We're trying to do the same thing at the federal level. The belief is through citizens, petitions, if you're a chronically ill patient or you have a terminal disease or you have some sort of catastrophic debilitating issue, why is the government stopping you from using a stem cell product? Why is the government stopping you? This is the end of your runway. Beyond a threshold of severity in terms of your health, you're allowed to throw anything that you want at the wall within a reason. I think you should. That's my question. So a lot of that would still be out of pocket though, right? All of it's out of pocket. None of this would be covered

1:25:57by insurance, which goes back to the main crux of the issue. If somebody wants to spend their cash to son their, you know, who are you to tell if I want to fly to Thailand for a change? I can do it. Yeah. It's going to take me myself. We're people are leaving the country to go get treatments. And it's like these treatments should be available here. We don't need big brother impacting every decision. And I get like protecting the consumer, but where was that protection with glyphosate? Where was that protection with the antidepressants with the oxy cotton, with the level of corruption we've seen from our regulatory bodies that are supposed to be here to protect us, right? And those people are swapping spit oftentimes with industry at a level that's nauseating, where. But it's challenging because you might be doing something in a way that is ethical. But if you've got another compounding pharmacy like in Florida, where they're putting all this crap and how do we protect the people? I do believe in medical agency that people should

1:26:57have the freedom to do whatever they want. If they want to use a medication because they have five pounds to lose, they should be able to get to choose. We should not as physicians ever dictate what an individual wants to do. There has to be agency. But then the question is how do we protect the people that don't know and think they're getting one thing? I think we have to assess it as a different model. That's where I keep going with this. There's the insurance model and then there's the cash pay model. And in the cash pay model, we don't need a new drug indication that costs 300 to a billion dollars because it's going to stifle and limit innovation. And that entire model was built around a framework that was built by industry that has a reason to build a moat around accessibility of care because they are monetizing chronic disease at an astronomical level. That's why the average American in the 80s was on one prescription drug and now the average Americans on four or more prescription drugs and everybody's made, but were the sickest country developed nation in the world. So in a perfect world for you like in a cash pay model, there would be right to try it every state. I think right to try and under the supervision of a

1:28:02clinician, that's an important caveat. Like I believe in putting it to the eye. I personally, doctor holding me back. I believe in I believe in the sacred relationship of a patient and clinician. I believe that most clinicians when given the opportunity want to do what is right for their patient. And oftentimes their hands are tied and they will go, I like even you, you were very weary to say, I have a patient who's sick, but I don't want to prescribe off label because it puts your license at risk. But that's a travesty because that patient needs help and we shouldn't have to look over our. I remember this was during COVID. I had written a prescription for an indication for Ivermectin for something. This was before I was all crazy and I got a letter saying that if I ever did this again, that it would affect my license. And it was a different address the horse pace doctor. But but also this person we test for parasites all the time. There was an indication that whatever they didn't care whether I put that indication. They shut us down as a pharmacy. They sent us a letter saying they would revoke our pharmacy license.

1:29:06But as a standard of Ivermectin, if we ship one more prescription of Ivermectin that they would shut down our fine. I can ship ketamine. But I'm not allowed to ship. I have a horse. Imagine you Ivermectin that horse. But can you imagine as a provider being restricted, being told that it's crazy that I can't write a script for that can help someone. But they don't know what I'm treating. We treat parasites all the time. And it was just it's terrifying because providers, clinicians, we spend our lives dedicated to be able to care for people. Talking about experimental forward thinking stuff, getting into some fun things. What are the most exciting interventions that you've come across recently? Some of the most experimental things that you've been playing around with? Oh man. I mean, we were just talking about plasma freezes. That's an interesting one just because there's all sorts of different blood and plasma filtration protocols that people are turning to for microplastics, for lipid management, for mold. The plasma freezes. I can't by the way. It says like yeah, like literally like pulling, pulling

1:30:09your blood out filtering the plasma, replacing typically with either albumin or in some cases, like actual human plasma or like, um, Virgum has this this super like stem cells and exosomes and all sorts of cool stuff that you could get put in. And so the idea is it's like an oil changed for the body. And, you know, there's even places like in Mexico and Europe that will do blood filtration, not just plasma, different filtration mediums that are designed for different purposes. There's a heparin based filter that is designed for spike protein, right? Like like a sticky fly trap for spike protein for something like long COVID. There's another one called the marker filter that is for microplastics. That's a specific filtration medium for that. So that's one that's a lot of people are like electively doing out of pocket. A lot of times internationally, like TPE, like you do that at Virgum's clinic, like you can do a basic plasma freezes very easily, you know,

1:31:13depending on on how many times you're squeezing a little rubber ball that you get to hold to, you know, four or five hours, but you're just basically sitting in a chair and getting in there. And then the problem with that though is like when that was what I was alluding to earlier, when a guy like Joe posts that immediately, it's like, yeah, this is my moment for these clinicians and they just tag his video and throw it up and they're trying to just riff and like coast off of the momentum that he created for it, debunking it, right? And this is where I get it's like you're an academic, you're now trying to debunk a placebo controlled randomized trial. Like, at what point do we, like pick a side? Do you believe in randomized controlled trial or do you not, you know, like, presumably they're saying that they have contrary data to the first randomized controlled trial? His main thing is there's only one major study that demonstrated this and the rest is anecdotal, but they've used plasma for esses in hospital systems for decades. So plasma for esses, so plasma is where they believe that the antibodies. So for example, if someone has a reaction to

1:32:17something within their body, depending on what the disease is, it exists within the plasma. It's concentrated somehow. Again, I'm not an immunologist, but to the best of my knowledge within this plasma, it's also where toxins and all this other stuff live that say wouldn't be able to be excreted by the body through urine or feces or sweat naturally. So plasma for esses is used in hospitals to this day where they use it for things that are, you know, extreme. Burned victims of you. Anyone who's been exposed to a level of mental toxins. A real-world example, too, would be, again, jelly roll, like, I hate to keep saying it, but he, because he lost so much weight, he was chronically inflamed, even though we were doing a ton of things to bring down his inflammation. All of that weight loss, you can only sweat it out so much. You can only excrete it so many ways. It ends up putting a major load on the kidneys and a lot of it back to like a lot of time. But it's a trash truck. And then it started impacting his sleep. And then as soon as we run him through plasma for esses, he calls me, he's like, blah, blah, whatever the hell you all just did, I have not slept this great in years. Yes. People talk about like a sauna for,

1:33:21you know, do the natural version just sweat it out? But I mean, if you look at the size of a microplacic, they range like the unit of measurement is adultin. And so the size of a microplacic range is anywhere from like slightly under 100 to up to 1000 Dalton's. And what a sweat gland can actually pass through is like 100 Dalton's. So arguably maybe one tenth of the microplacic exposure that you have, you can actually sweat out in a sauna. And considering that most of the microplacics, for example, in the food supply, like a plastic packaging or drinking out of a cup and Starbucks are way larger than 100 Dalton's, you just can't get rid of that in the sauna. Like it's an inconvenient truth. But if it's getting into your body at this point, it's pretty difficult to remove it. There are some gut binders. There's probably like 10 different supplements. Like all of these. Yeah, just over the past few months, people have been like, mailing me whatever I like a sulfur-a-fan based compound for microplacic removal or some other like binding, binding stack that supposedly removes it from the gut and possibly via some sort of

1:34:23osmotic gradient from the tissue as well. But none of those are that proven. And so that's an example of like, well, at some point you just gotta filter it out. The problem with that is it's a long and expensive protocol that not everybody's gonna do. But eventually maybe there will be a way to democratize it. We've seen that with a lot of medical stuff. Yeah, that's to go with all of this is to make it affordable for the masses. And I think the biggest thing I've seen is... I think we should on Shark Tank like the Suck It and just pull it up. I've never seen that. How long should take your body to replace the plasma? Because I think this is one of the concerns. You've got this period of time, you've gotten rid of all of this plasma. You're immediately... What you'll do is we'll add back in I'll be human. And so you have made it... Yeah, you immediately have that replenishment. The big critique is, or what people have tried to critique is there is a drop in your immune system. But the truth is that drop is for 24 hours. So we were just talking to one of your buddies and he just did it. But then he got on a flight. I was like, oh man, I would not have done that. And what happened?

1:35:23Did he get sick? He felt run down and... It's that. There's also the risk of the the catheter depending on where that is placed having like a rupture or an issue. But you have a compromised immune system for 24 hours. So that is a legitimate risk. And this is again, anything in medicine, you have that discussion. You make sure you tell that patient for the next 24 hours, you will have a compromised immune system. And then after that, your immune response is boosted. And all of that inflammation that was in your plasma is removed. And all of those shot proteins and all these different things that are causing so many issues, we're basically taking out the trash and replacing years and years of inflammation and gunk and with albumin, young, clean albumin. Well, it's literally a... Yeah, it's just a protein that instead of... Some people were like... Same thing about egg white as a ton of albumin in it. It's just basically... You're putting egg white in it. Yeah, I mean very, very similar. Okay. What are the strongest longevity interventions that cost free? Because much of this stuff sounds maybe different. It's waxes. People are outside of the

1:36:24country. So, yeah, epidemiologically, yes, lifting. Grip strength is often identified as a metric. But it's not because people have like big meaty hands, live longer. It's because people who who lift heavy objects and do some type of manual labor or artificial manual labor inside of a gym tend to have high grip strength as a byproduct of that. So, you're not going to live longer by having like a hand grip dinonometer in your car that you're squeezing all the time. It'll make a little bit of a difference. But physical activity that exhaust the grip would be one. VO2 max is another. And I think the the misperception is that you need to do like these like fancy Norwegian 4x4 protocols to significantly increase VO2 max, meaning like four minutes maximum sustainable pace, balls through all four minute recovery four times through as a sample prescribed protocol for VO2 max. I mean, just yesterday there was a study that came out that showed that small burst anywhere from three to five times a week of 10 to 20 seconds had an impact on VO2 max. So these are like tiny

1:37:27bursts like on an air die. You think VO2 max on muscle mass is more important when it comes to training for longevity. If you could pick one. I would I would choose if I had to pick one, I would choose muscle mass because I think low muscle mass. I'm not just saying this because Gabriel's saying next to me. I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't hire a risk for frailty. And I think frailty is one of the like not being able to outrun a lion is less likely to kill you than like stepping out for curb and being frail like with the VO2 max like joking aside, yes, VO2 max can have a significant impact on cardiovascular health, but you can get pretty good cardiovascular health including blood pressure management with strength training. So if I had to choose one, it's an unrealistic scenario anyways based on how easy it is to do your max. You do both. And then the last one that I would name is like a free intervention. If we're not going to talk about like Harvard's longest running study on longevity, happiness, relationships, love, all of that, boring esoteric stuff aside, I would be walking speed.

1:38:33Yes, 7,000 to 8,000 steps a day is advisable, but the actual speed of walking the pace like the the actual cadence of the walking is important. So VO2 max grip strength and walking speed. What is what's the specific time looking speed? I don't remember the actual like pace based on whatever you would measure. The way I think about it is like walk slightly faster than what your brain wants to do. There was on a facilities available device called a counter pace like a heart rate strap you could wear that tied to ear pods that tracks your heart rate and then helps you maintain a cadence that matches that heart rate so that your foot strike is occurring during the diastolic phase of the thing. So you're essentially like teaching your heart how to pump with each step. So that's very similar like counter pulsation therapy. They would do it at a hospital for post heart attack, but the idea is just like when you're walking try to walk. It's like resonance breathing, but resonance walking. Kind of like that. Up and down with the breath, but this is step

1:39:37and step with the heartbeat. That's fun. Okay. Those would be three. I think if you were to look at the VO2 max versus muscle mass thing, if you were to say somebody is a five out of ten on both, where would you stop? Because it seems to me that the muscle mass thing is largely talking about being protective in late-life frailty, falls, hip replacement stuff like that. Metabolic health. Yeah. I don't know. I just coming from the background of being such a bro, VO2 max was never anything that anybody really considered. And it seems like that's really had the ascendancy recently. And it gets chased a lot as a number. It's largely reflective of cardiovascular health. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like if you're competing as like, I don't, Iron Man, marathon or swimmer or whatever, like VO2 max is important as a performance metric. But the reason that it tracks with longevity is not necessarily because maximum oxygen utilization is going to help you live longer. At least I don't think that. I think it's because it's reflective of overall cardiovascular health in the same way that grip strength. You know, having strong hands,

1:40:38I can hold onto something for a long period of time isn't going to make you live longer. But what you got you, those strong hands is... Everything everything Ben saying is like, that's when I, again, go back to what you do, what we do comparing it to traditional medicine. Somebody comes in. The first thing we do is comprehensive blood work. That's one tool, one assessment. But we also run them through a DexA and then we do a VO2 max, a walking VO2 max to assess their cardiovascular condition. You give me those three things. I put it into the AI algorithm. I cross-reference all of that. And we begin to model out all cause mortality. And I can begin to project if you're headed towards a chronic disease. So like in traditional medicine, somebody shows up sick. You ride him a pill. Somebody gets it. You mass the symptom. And it's like, but why aren't we just practicing proactive predictive medicine? Like what you're doing in your practice, you can prevent 1.7 million Americans are dying every year of chronic disease. That's more than every war we've ever fought in the history of America in a year. And it's all preventable. But it's not longevity. And I wish there was another name

1:41:39for it because the reality is... I think it's health-span. I think it's muscle span, but yeah, it's health span. But I think as a geriatrician, which means I've taken care of a lot of dying people, that there is a one harsh reality. And that is nobody gets out alive, no one. And so is this increase in longevity just a distraction from the end result, which is that we will all die. And at some point, we have to recognize that it's going to happen. It is how we live within that time frame. And maybe there's a genetic push past 85. We don't know. I mean, there's genetic play a role. We know some people that smoke and eat tacos and live to be 105. So, yes, being strong, being capable, not restricting protein. I know that you had a guest that was talking about protein restriction. That's not where I would say that. Not a lot of people need to hear that right now.

1:42:39But I'm like, if we can buy you time, I always say we can buy your health span time. It's the key to healthy, longer time. There are folks like David Sinclair, my buddy, Dr. E. and White, he is 22 years stem cell research at Harvard at the bench. And what he'll break down is pretty crazy. And this is why I have dinosaurs in jellyfish at our clinic because... I was wondering he literally breaks down that we share a common ancestor with every species on earth. We share DNA with the eternal jellyfish within us is a black box code. And there are companies in Texas right now that are doing gene activation. And we can literally inject you with a virus that will go turn on a gene that has been turned off. We can tell your body to put on more muscle. We can turn on a gene that can increase bone mineral density eightfold. These things exist today. And so my only thing getting more into the biohacking woo-woo like futuristic is can we buy you time? Can we through common practice? Not the woo-woo's to just good old bread and butter smart medicine

1:43:43buy you health span until one of these brilliant people crack the code of how do we turn on that gene? How do we turn on the jellyfish gene? Jellyfish gene where we're all in front of the years, floating the water, flying in the dark. The aging is not abnormal. The idea that we're not going to... I mean, aging is normal, but the chronic disease that's not normal. That's not a normal part of aging. And we've come to normalize all of that. And that's a problem. So if we stop stigmatizing testosterone and allow us to replace the things that we need, then... Yeah. Well, perhaps there's a through line here because if you down regulate fertility enough and don't have children that might be a viable life extension strategy, setting a message to your lizard brain that you better stick around as long as possible because you have no progeny. So once you're gone. Hold on. You got to hold on. Yeah, basically, yeah, I would say the most significantly, potentially significantly, impactful life extension strategy. Not having kids. Don't have kids. Don't jerk off. Don't have kids. Okay. What do you make about the criticism? So Dr. Daniel Lieberman who came on the show and I

1:44:48asked him about what do you think the current recommendations coming out of, I guess, our side of the world around one gram per pound, one gram kekelo, kekelo to one gram per pound of body weight for protein. And he just sort of looked at him as like, I think it's overblown. I don't think the people need that much. It doesn't really seem to make that much sense to me from a longevity standpoint. It doesn't seem to be that much evidence. I've looked at every big diet on the planet. That's interesting. You wasn't invited to the protein working group, which was all the 100 finest scientists, protein scientists. And they disagreed on some things and they agreed on others. I don't know this gentleman. So it's not a knock to him. But in this room, these were the finest protein researchers from all over. But that not mean that they kind of biased. No, they don't all get along. So some of them are low protein researchers. So, well, yes, they are all the protein experts. Some agree on 1.1. I mean, they're all over the place. So what they do is they present the evidence to the best of their ability, all the evidence that have been done. And what they came up with is

1:45:54that there is no evidence that going below the minimum requirement has benefit at all. They're going low like 0.55 grams per pound. They argued is it could you go from one is 1.1 better than 1.4? Potentially is anything better than 1.6 grams? No, no one agreed that. So that's not one ground profound protein cyclone. Like like like the idea from like a topology standpoint of like a fast and mimicking diet on a fairly basis. Yes, yes. Period of protein restriction to simulate or stimulate a topology. Yeah. And then most of the time you're actually eating, whether the 0.8 to 1.2 grams. So to be clear, I was not invited there as a guest researcher, but I was there interviewing these guys. And one of the things that was interesting is that in terms of human trials, it seems as though the sweet spot for aging and optimal health to find that as you will is closer to 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kg. So it's not 1 gram per pound, which is what I recommend.

1:46:59It's slightly below that. And what you're talking about is this idea of protein cycling. So the body turns over 250 to 300 grams of protein a day. As we age, we become less efficient at that, liver turnover, all of this stuff. As we age, if we then begin to restrict protein, this is not moving in a positive direction. And all the aging, there's no aging data in humans that would suggest that that would be beneficial. It's his argument that we're over we are not protein. The data doesn't say because most people I know everyone I know doesn't know. I think he was making epidemiological case. If I know the Lieberman you're talking about that you don't come across a lot of long-lived cultures who are feeding at the levels that are currently recommended by a cuckoo like this. Here's what I'm talking about. Do you not see? I like to keep it simple stupid because my brain's not smart enough to figure all this out. I did give you my book, but I tried to color the men. That's why I was.

1:48:02I thought it was a coloring book. Whatever. Whatever. The forever strong playbook. I will give it a plug. It took me two years to write and it has pictures to make it simple and stupid. And it's digestible. I love it. And my main thought is we yeah, if we prioritize protein, it is a caloric, dense, nutrient rich aspect of my diet. And I will eat less of the ultra processed, less of all the bad things. Just anecdotally, I'm not saying there's no science behind what I say. I'm just looking at going, if I prioritize protein, it fills me. It turns my appetite. Yeah, I can't. Oh, it's hard to overeat. Yeah, I invite you to stay. I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. And so do you not see a value in or would he not see a value in prioritizing protein first as part of your diet? You're arguing for the benefits of protein intake as a calorie restriction mechanism. Yes. Yeah. And you know, I imagine he would, I imagine he would do too. I think my question is something

1:49:03like what do you think about one gram of a pound of body weight? That seems to be more than his necessary. I would agree with that statement. That is more than his necessary. Yeah. I mean, it depends to like I have 18 year old sons and they're probably hitting 1.4 to 1.5 grams for pound right now based on my growth. But they're also highly animal. Like we use it lifting every day. So it's pretty population specific. What about that is exactly what they came to in the summit? What about fiber? Yeah. Because I've been pretty good at sort of like in my finger putting in the air and working out what way the winds blowing. I think the protein thing everyone could see a little while ago. I was early on creatine. I was early on water quality. I think air quality stuff like Jasper and Mold. I think that's going to be a few things next after that. I think it's going to be light. Light quality and light pollution. I think and it's slowly sort of trickling through the echelons of health. Fiber to me seems to be just about sort of taking that

1:50:04it's at the hockey stick moment here. And I get the sense that protein and fiber are going to be a little antagonistic to each other when it comes to designing a diet. So I'm interested in what you guys think when it comes to bio-itemizing gut health. Everyone gives a fuck about bloating and digestion. That leaky gut. That's exactly it. I don't think that high protein intake necessarily rules out fiber. But what you were just saying is the one thing that flies under the weight are yes fiber is beneficial for everything from glycemic variability to bowel movements to the microbiome. In the fact that it sits often a food for probiotics leading to post-biotic production. The issue is the large number of the population that has issues like small intestine bacterial overgrowth or diverticulitis or some form of of of IBS or an issue that results in them hearing that the giant ass kale salads are a really good idea and that should they should put a bunch of spinach in their smoothies and I just totally effs them over and they're painting the back of the

1:51:05toilet seat. So I think that it depends again on what the gut biome looks like and what someone's especially like the gas production by specific bacteria in the gut looks like before you decide what kind of fiber someone should be on or the fermentable nature of that fiber like inulin and chikri root and shit like that completely screws some people over as far as gas and floating. For other people it's great gut food. It feels like fiber is much more individually variable that you could probably look at most people and say yeah if you had like one gram per kilo of body weight of protein like you'd probably be all right whereas yeah if you threw a bunch of oxalates at one person from spinach that's not being cooked they're going to have a very different response to somebody else who doesn't have that kind of gut microflora. Yeah I think that's I think that is a frontier that we don't know enough about. My prediction is the food matrix conversation is next. The bro bodybuilding sphere we're great there's I guess I would include myself in there. Boyle chicken egg whites we know what the protein is we know the macros

1:52:10rice chicken but what we don't know is how for example there was a study that came out on high fat dairy. We don't actually understand how the fat in dairy the compounds then work with the protein and the carbohydrates within that food matrix. It's not repeatable it's not supplementation. It is within the dynamic of say for example a steak yes has protein yes has b vitamins but it has anceering toarine it has these other what you imagine as a phytonutrient and plant it has its own carne nutrient and it's how those all fit together we don't really know how the foods all work together. Is it possible for you guys to give general advice when it comes to fiber and eating for gut health through a diet because it seems again this fingerprint each person's flora is slightly different that that that that that that what are the we can say hey one gram per kilo of body weight protein that's probably a good baseline can you give me equivalent baselines when it

1:53:13comes to fiber intake for humans who just want to have good diet. Well I can cheat here because I'm a doctor so we test we don't guess we do stool tests we do breath tests we do tests so if you have small intestinal bacteria overgrowth we would treat that we would put you on a diet that was essentially low fod mount so there's there's ways that you can experiment but also test your guessing less low fod mount isn't necessarily synonymous with low fiber but you're literally winning that's true fruit hands all go saccharides die saccharides what else. We've got hyalurides and bullials and so these are specific compounds that if you were to Google high fod map diet you would want to avoid because those are sources of fiber that would cause gas and bloating but that doesn't mean that you can't eat fiber at all you can do like like on a low fad mod diet you can do like chia seeds flurry right like put a bunch of chia seeds in water so can have that as like a pudding a lot of times like seeds and nuts you know the the fiber in the skin and those that would also be acceptable but then like apples, pears, garlic, onions all

1:54:14that stuff would be out and in some cases like mixed greens, romaine lettuce like a lot of things you tell salad those are fine you know kale it kind of depends because then there's the whole thing you brought up which is like is oxalic sensitivity and issues so Gabriel makes a great point it's like we now live in an era where you could get like a genova diagnostic stool test you could get a trio smart you know a seaboe breath test and see if you're reactive to certain fiber-based foods those tests are not bad. This one I mean we can't just give this not. Hey you can get rid of it with you and come on. I mean like it's for a couple of hours. What you could say is like have 40 grams of fiber a day or more and if you have gas or bloating when you start doing that go get tested to figure out what's causing the gas. Yeah we always say yes but yeah raise what we'll say yes but like yes this is a good rule of thumb but there's always outliers everybody's different personalized medicine should take a personalized touch to do that it requires the analytics and the data to have the knowledge of you specifically and you're a unique individual so let's look at you as a unique individual and tailor a unique program and it sounds like almost

1:55:18that's what you are both saying. This is why people feel overwhelmed by hell. But it's hard in the modern world so like oh well I've got to go and get this fucking special fingerprint thing done and I don't know why to go and maybe I'm in a country that can't provide it or maybe I'm going to have to pay out a pocket and I get afforded and I'm going to do it and then I've got to do it. Yeah there are work rounds and there are levels like for example what we're talking about with the the FODMAP and the SIBO issue there's like an at home breath testing device called the food marble and it gets a pretty decent corollary it's not as good as like a more expensive lab base test but it can help you to keep track of primarily the fiber based foods that would cause something like bloating. The other thing is just simple food elimination. Yeah there's the old school tactic for well let's cut everything out let's start from scratch and you're going to have steak and chicken and fish and maybe some sweet potato mass kind of like a white rice like a paleo esk type of approach and then you could start to add in some grain some dairy some different forms of fiber and you're going to get to the point where you can identify within like four weeks an app right to track what was it that I can use an app I mean you can easily use like a

1:56:19quadr gpt model now to literally say okay here's everything I here's my gas and bloating symptoms of a four-week you need a pretty good map of the culprit. It doesn't have to be complicated to be effective and we live in the information overload and that's the disease the disease is distraction we can fully simplify people know what works well for them if they don't they can track it but you eliminate you keep it simple and you add things in slowly I think we over-compliquate it. That's what we were saying that's what kind of where I was going with the protein is as I say don't let you know pro don't let perfection get in the way of progress and it's baby steps you don't have to be perfect just be better make slightly better choices test things out like you're not going to die if you try a fiber and it doesn't work out for you and you're bloated and have stomach upset for a few days. There was a pair of bees or someone ate it was something like 300 pairs and they actually got a hair hair ball of a it's actually called a pair bees or it created a small bowel

1:57:20obstruction who the fuck eats 300 I think anything is going to cause it was a key study I will take on the small bowel obstruction challenge I could make it happen do you guys follow a specific diet yeah it's called a forever strong playbook. What is it? No no so it's a higher protein diet I don't need a ton of processed food at all prior to his protein we make it very simple I have two crazy kids. What about like grains dairy like a lot of the stuff that people and I think we're starting to see that it has protective effects we do high fat dairy fermented foods the one thing that we don't eat is a ton of packaged processed foods yeah be aside from like beef sticks right but it's sweet potato will he rise I'm not a low carb person yeah it sounds very like western a price where grains aren't eliminated but they need to be like fermented or soaked or sprouted dairy is like the full fat variety or good meats fermented vegetables. What have you come into

1:58:25London now Ben obviously you've experimented. I'm pretty close to a paleo diet with a lot of fermented vegetables that like I like most of my carbohydrates are like underground storage organs like sweet potato yeah purple potato berries and honey most of my vegetables are kimchi sard crowd and then a lot of hunted wild game meat super clean fish that is farmed not wild caught so I know the exact sourcing and that it's clean what it's been fed state chicken poultry or passion pork and then I do like my dessert is typically coconut yogurt like I go through that what it was a cold cocoa June so good yeah that's the brand I have so good cocoa June blueberries dark chocolate is not only my dessert but I've eaten twice today and that was my meal was just cocoa June blueberries dark chocolate and then a little bit of like I made me nuts Brazil nuts and

1:59:29that's pretty much it where are you guys all the peptides why are you getting a fish firm company called Citopia they've got like 30 plus different farms around the world and they vary tightly control what the fish is fed they are tested for things like microplastics parasites and then they flash freeze and ships to your house and they've got a pretty good variety of all just like or a king salmon and halibut some shellfish scallops uh and it's the cleanest stuff I could find what was that state company that you and I hope they've got a check in the mail now to me uh the this that wasn't saying okay so it's this crazy breed of cattle all that original yes it's little eat one he's fucking rules no no more peon t's monties kind of so this breed of cattle originated from the Middle East and a they have the Milestatin knockout gene yep meaning they've got this like unparalleled muscle grow big Arnold

2:00:29Swarchianegar-esque cows the result of that is that the muscle fiber thickness is like one sixteenth the diameter of a normal like Angus cow so it's super digestible like a medium rare is like 95 degrees that's how fast it cooks but then these cattle have also developed based on their origination sweat glands which is also something that is less common but one of the key contributors to um to off flavored or tough meat in general whether it's hunted meat or farmed meat or anything I think it's forticellation it's cortisol so cortisol up regulation causes calcium influx basically the you know the effects of stress sweat cow's product rigor mortis but a cow that can manage thermal stress eliminates one of the most common sources of cortisol in cattle which is like uh being subjected to extremes of heat or cold and being unable to deal with it so these cows wound up in canada there was like a Canadian farmer up north on the west side who had

2:01:32like one bull and three cows uh a guy a horse farmer in Washington state connected with these folks in canada like 30 years ago this better be the best ship some across the board it's like the adamanieve a year a year and a half ago I get an Instagram message from this farm by Spokane and they're like we have the only 100 percent pure pied Montes beef in all of north america and you can only find this stuff now in Italy and the middle east so I talked to the skies and bred with angus which so a lot of the pied Montes is like 75 25 or 50 50 so then I actually went to the fall bread long story short is on like was it grass fed grass finish they're like no it's like grass fed acorn fed dressed flying grape skin fed carrots like customized give it a fucking background from birth and so so long story short is I got a whole steer and these things are massive it I got it like almost two years ago and I am still or they stored all the farm and they

2:02:36shipped to me so I'm still ordering off this spreadsheet like me and my wife and 18 year old sons of still not eating this whole cow that's chef the food that's the meat it is it is the weirdest drop ship me some and I knew I tried to do it all I think I'm with it is it so lean they they butchered it and I'm like I would love to have some of the talo because you know talo is great to cook with new potatoes with they're like dude there is no talo these things are so lean that they're just like no dripping no fat whatsoever so when you cook it I actually use a lot of extra like olive oil talo extra or talo extra fat because I think the flavor profile when you don't have the fat is just still a little bit to lean but yeah that's that's the stakes so wait a second yeah so the the listener or the watcher is thinking I'm never gonna get that you know I tried to get some of this me I couldn't get it I talked to the founder I'm like how many cows you guys have like it's really me it goes to the they do a lot like NHL they do okay but for the other people there are meal delivery services I use one that's only in Texas and Oregon in Denver

2:03:41and they use there's this company what are they not pied Monties what is the grazing there's another one well I don't know did the delivery drivers have sweat glands though but I just say that for some who's listening so anyway there is a company and it's called myfit foods and they're available in Texas they use grass fed grass finished is for those of us that can't get the crazy what do you say anything about beans and you know they have beans in it beans do not agree with me so I don't want to talk about those uh no it is it is a think insoluble five so that's a big thing the whole like blues on's data which which is rife with with berk record issues and falsified data but I think you could make a case that legumes and beans in general do provide good fermentable substrate for the microbiome it's just that in many people including myself those bacteria produce massive amounts of gas um I'm not a chilly guy I don't know about you I love I love chilly I don't know whether it's me but yeah absolutely 11 so

2:04:43why the fiber why are you interested in fiber I just have this prediction seeing what's happening with probiotic fiber at the moment Oli pop poppy bloom pop that that whole world looking at what happened with a g one with companies like seed with David Beckham's new thing IMA like everybody is if you want to sell shit to women put bloating yeah in the front of a piece of packaging right every woman's worried about bloating how much of this is just artificial solution to artificial problem tons of high calorie highly processed foods sugar fermented foods maybe there's some EPG in there some other bullshit going on like whatever it is that's happening it's causing people to feel digestively off and now they're looking for what the solution is I we've already been through the protein revolution creating revolutions happening now I I already know I think people are now buying more fiber supplements than protein supplements that was a I think the problem here paradoxically fiber contributes to a lot of the issues that you just described and and I think the

2:05:48elephant in the room is that one of the primary causes of all of that gas and bloating is lack of digestive enzyme production and slowed gastric emptying and most of the things that happen when you eat quickly or in a stressed out state which basically defines a lot of our cultures eating habits so I think that like slow slow eating and eating in a parasympathetic state would be way better for people's gas and bloating than like sucking down a ball of inelan. Did you see that study that came out recently looking at people eat people's eating speed in the GLP1 endogenous GLP1 release did you say this? So can you explain it? Yeah so the body releases GLP1 naturally typically it rides and I didn't see this study particularly but it rides with protein so once you get a protein bolus it should release GLP1 it should be very short lived and you should be done protein increases satiety through this mechanism also I believe that there's some fat but the faster you eat the faster it gets there I'm assuming that the GLP1 would have less weight.

2:06:51So grazing more slowly meant that you got a higher release of GLP1 which meant that you were more satisfied more quickly. But the question is how long does that yeah how long does that last that would not be comparable to a long half-life of a GLP1? Yeah. Period. I mean all I know is that if you look at digestive enzymes production and you look at like vasoconstriction, lack of blood flow to the gut, slow gaseochempting like it is better for you to not suck down your super food smoothie while you're driving 60 miles an hour down the highway on your way to work and I'd rather just see someone fast or wait until they can actually be in a paracetathetic state to eat. What's the current data around fasting? Because it seems to have been bunked and re-bunked so many times or topherjee maybe it does work maybe it doesn't work. Yeah. Is it just calorie restriction? Is it an easier route to calorie restriction? Is there something super special about? Yeah. Sixty-eighths or so the basic idea is that when you go head-to-head something like an

2:07:54intermittent fasting study with overall calorie restriction there is no big winner. There's nothing magic about fasting that beats out just like shoving fewer calories into your gaping the advantage is that with a compressed feeding window it becomes more difficult to eat excess calories and that's mostly the case until you get past about the 18 hour mark of fasting. Past the 18 hour mark that's when you start to see cellular atophagy and a lot of these longevity mechanisms kick in that could make the case for an occasional longer fast obviously like activity level and what kind of anabolic phase of life that you're in etc would dictate that but my recommendation to most men is like a 12 to 16 hour overnight intermittent fast and every once in a while go longer than 18 hours like a 24 hour dinner time to dinner time fast like once a month for example and then back to that protein cycling protein restriction thing something like a quarterly

2:08:55fasting mimicking diet right where you're slightly underfeeding protein slightly underfeeding calories but it's just for a few days to simulate like a famine type of cereal yeah and then for the recessed for men is for pre menopausal women regularly fasting for longer than 12 hours may have an impact on cuspeptin which is upstream of LH and FSH which are fertility related hormones and so women close to the 12 hour mark guys close to 12 to 16 hours post menopausal women would be closer to the 12 to 16 hour mark but that's that's basically the way that I do fasting is 12 to 16 hours intermittent fast daily quarterly fasting mimicking diet about once a month 24 hour dinner to dinner so you're saying that is something special in the autophagy and the cell clearance intermittent versus grazing and just restriction once you get past 18 hours but in most cases the definition of intermittent fasting is not these like long one to three a fast intermittent fasting is typically

2:09:56like a daily compressed feeding window and usually it tops out at around 60 hours but you think there is some special soul in a 24 hour fast there is occasionally you just have to balance like the anabolic there's others to do it yeah they're training there's yeah there's different mechanical thermal stress yeah there's there's other ways and so if you are somebody who is um who is at risk of frailty or you just trying to get yo after no one who's at risk of frailty listen to this podcast yeah that's not true my mom does she's not at risk of frailty I gave you old mom what talking about longevity tests you know we're looking at the things that people should be paying attention to where do you think people are wasting money or effort or time the most either on diagnostic or so intervention side things for health more generally like is there a particular type of test that's widely regarded that people think is bullshit what do you reckon I mean there's there's ones that like we even do but it just gives you more knowledge like the

2:10:58mtfhr but you can do that through process of analysis of elimination like you had said like cutting adapting which supplements you take and using methylated supplements there's is it a necessity no if you you could just do that through process of elimination and save money I think um and this might be a little bit of a contrary in stance but I think there is a great deal of emphasis placed right now on cardiovascular risk potential based on either a cardiovascular risk or right you have high blood pressure or smoking history family history of cardiovascular disease etc and what does your lipid panel look like right not not just like the basic stuff like LDL HL triglycerides Lpl l a apple b the issue is that that can be a clue but definitely not a telltale sign of actual plaque deposition in the heart and I am increasingly convinced after seeing so many people come back from their ccta's like an angiographie of the heart like a CT scan

2:12:01clearly usually with AI based diagnostic imaging clearly actually show yes where hard more stable hard plaque which you would typically see in more of like an athletic population who scarred up their heart a little bit or unstable more likely to break loose plaque resulting in a stroke or heart attack lies right so the AI based diagnostic imaging can tell you that and the reason that's important is because in many cases people including myself have a pretty good lipid panel right LDL HL triglycerides yada yada yada but then you do the ccta and geography and you actually see plaque deposition that if not monitored and addressed either you know alopathically with like a low-dostatin or a PCSK9 inhibitor or something exactly or more non-traditionally right with enzymes like lumbar kinase nato kinase there's a new cycle of dextrin that's that's being entralled right now to actually break down the plaque you actually could be at risk and not even

2:13:03know it or you could alternatively like be on a statin or a path or whatever else due to high cholesterol I'm not even needed because you don't have any plaque deposition so the idea of like imaging for the heart you know indirect answer to your question is like I think myopically focusing on a lipid panel is either a causing people to be prescribed to medication that they might not need or b telling them they're okay when in fact there can be significant plaque. So you're saying rather than obsessing over lipid panel you would just go and get clearly I think anybody who has a history of heart exercise anybody who has a family history of cardiovascular disease I'm not a doctor by the way don't take this is medical advice I think even like perimenopause you know that the risk goes up significantly. We always get what you're saying. You'd get it. I agree with CT agiography. So traditionally which is really interesting after men leave the pediatrician there's no need for them to go to the doctor for example women go to OBGYN you know they get a gynecological

2:14:05exam but men they leave the why would you have to go to the doctor they don't really have a reason which is a mistake so getting a baseline testosterone baseline cardiovascular testing is great like your boys age now but then not necessarily treating with medication having a baseline exam by 40 I we recommend that you have a baseline heart scan both heart and soft plaque. What would be the gold standard for that? Clearly. Yeah. That's a clearly thing. But now do you have for muscle? So right now with a dexat I think this is where the future is going right now we look at a dexat dexat compartmentalize his bone body fat percentage and then extrapolates lean body mass but we don't look at muscle quality you and I have talked about this a lot. Yeah. We're not imaging routinely muscle quality I believe they do it in Japan whether through ultrasound or MRI or you see you can occasionally see it if you get if you get a treatment done like a stem cell injection of the doctor using ultrasound you can see the quality of the muscle somewhat but it's not but that's a greater that's a greater

2:15:10driver of Saint insulin resistance than body fat percentage it's the fat that's in the muscle we don't image so you'd be looking at a whole body MRI rather than a dexat yes yes I mean you could sit still for an hour there's nothing there's got to be other ways there's a new there's a new one you see the water when you sit in a basically in a hot tub that mine looks fast in the AI based companies about yeah yeah I don't know I don't know I don't know quite how well it did I just literally stepped into water and it uses frequency based mechanisms to do some type of a digital signal that's similar to a full body MRI but that's the future yeah I'm telling you that that's the future of medicine you still need a dexat you still need to look at bone density but looking at the quality of this tissue I think is you're going to be able to correlate it with insulin resistance and disease outcomes surprising to me that clearly scans for the people that see LEE are LY that then not more widely used when hot disease is like

2:16:11the number one killer everybody they're more expensive they subject to depending on the speed of the machine to a somewhat significant amount of radiation once they're it's fine there's still holes in the process like if you got a CT and geography in 2024 the software algorithm has changed like six times since then so if you're running the same data through a 2026 software that's been updated like the data set is not necessarily going to be similar and most of the time request their writing back through yeah you have to request your raw data and run it back through an old data set so there's issues but in general even if it falls into like the concierge based medicine category I think more people should be considering a scan like that I don't know how much is it any idea how much out of pocket clearly would be grand maybe yeah I think it's around that I mean that's not cheap but fuck you when you don't you get it done that much get it done 40 years old as a guy it's it's controversial a lot of people will correlate I've seen up to 97% accuracy claims a carotid into the media thickness score with a CCTA meaning using

2:17:17actual ultrasound to look at carotid pluck pluck deposition and based on data sets correlate that to what you get from a CT and geography and that's like a five minute scan on both sides of your neck it's just it's it's difficult to put a lot of it is difficult to estimate how powerful that prediction is but there are a lot of companies unfortunately in the CIMT space who claim that it's really close to CT and geography but full body MRI which is very controversial we recommend them we recommend them full body MRI these are early detection screening tools you'll hear physicians say why would you screen for something what are you going to do about it well that's like saying I don't want to look under the covers I'm just going to you know high put my head in the sand yeah if you know there's an issue you want to find it early can freak you out though like there are certain things like looking like I have full arthritis like literally like from my cervical then have someone else read it and I'm and I have to be out of it but but like there's a lot of

2:18:19stuff that you you can see and it doesn't necessarily mean that you that is surgery no or you know that I need you to get my spine operated on like in my case I do I do stume of gills big three I hang for the first table every day I do a lot of plank training take care of my spine I always have a giant water bottle behind me on an airplane which helps a ton and so I go relatively pain free but full body MRI shows like I'm super effed up like my entire spine so it can be scary for a lot of people who comes down to good clinicians having good conversations yeah same thing with the cancer screening like we can screen for 200 types of cancer at stage zero yeah we can tell you seven years of advance before you use those all that you use the grail test yes and then and then it's important to have the nuanced conversation and have the time so traditional medicine will go well you don't need that like we we will you know that is a mistake it's like it's a yeah and we've seen so I helped implement this with soldiers with special operators because they're exposed to so much stuff they have three-folder is yes burn pit you name it what's that from being exposed to

2:19:26random particulates yes also shooting gun shooting gun yeah all that gunpowder is getting absorbed we started to think about it you guys know that we are at skin and we've saved guys lives because we were early enough in detection and they even got to go back to microplastics but like this is a crazy when I didn't realize this until we had this meeting with Ken Paxden here and there's a woman advocate who's banging on the desk about little girls now start putting lip gloss on between ages six and eight the average American girls putting lip gloss on between six and eight is flavored lip gloss my son dad's your buying it yeah but it's it is loaded with microplastics and so they're absorbing plastics and the reason your lips or pink is you have more blood vessels in your lips and so it's a higher absorption rate and so little girls are absorbing crazy levels of microplastics to lip gloss and their first avoid lip gloss and don't eat after loading your med wow so surely someone's gonna come along and make a kid friendly microplastic free

2:20:28hey we're going to daily you know the business minimal they need to change the labeling of what they call all natural and like mandate that you disclose a risk profile and so the Texas is looking at potentially forcing companies but what we've learned with food is if you can get two or three big states to do it it's so painful on the big corporations that they'll just change the label everywhere because they don't have to split all of the correct do you think in future we might see kind of the same as in the UK I don't know whether it's the same over here smoking packets of got almost 90% of it is taken up with some horrible artery like a one label can you see the same thing happening maybe around other around maybe microplastics or other contributing elements to like a photo of just like teeny tiny testicles on a lip gloss bottle it does and it's going to be like with the x-bone yeah yeah but that's one of the reasons why they think that if that fertility infertility is increasing that's shana so yeah what was it 97% or 99%

2:21:28a minute microplastics in our testicles oh did you see where most of that came from though that it was in the fucking gloves oh if I get to see oh from the way you mean the gloves being used in a study yes so the big microplastics the big micro Jared pull it up but it's how Larry that's big fucking microplastic study just search microplastics gloves because they were wearing gloves they were wearing fucking nitrile gloves the and how how is it these gloves bend why did they bend because tiny little bits of plastic and breaking off so literally what happened was we're sorry the plastic gloves we were wearing got on the plastic detector of the microplastic study we were doing and contaminated the results so the as wild sure there it is gloves maybe skew it this is March 29th University of Michigan scientists maybe unknowingly inflating microplastics pollution estimates and the surprising source could be their own lab gloves university of Michigan study found common nitrile and latex gloves released tiny particles so it called steroids which closely resemble microplastics and can contaminate samples during testing in some

2:22:31cases this led to wildly exaggerated results forcing researchers to track down the unexpected culprit don't fucking test me dude yeah there's a lot there's a lot of confusion and misperceptions in the microplastic industry like like the sweat thing is one the chewing gum is full of microplastics issue the the size of the microplastics and chewing gum actually is to large to be absorbed in the gut in most cases and significant amounts of chewing gum is less of an issue and then the there's another one what do you think a clothing because everyone there's a whole lot of things so limit and stuff now to well well there's another big study a few weeks ago that that actually compared like how much microplastic exposure do you actually decrease with certain lifestyle based modifications like your clothing the type of packaging that you store your food in your personal care products which involves shampoo and condition when I was just stored in plastic bottles the number one contributor bar none was oral exposure via plastics in your food so what

2:23:33you store your food in or the food that you buy in plastic is the number one contributor so if you're gonna do anything like your garbage bay like there's a lot of stuff when you go to the grocery almost everything is in everything is in and that's the problem we live in a society that right now is pretty much engineered for you to get your food in plastic even if it's helped even a little level of awareness because you talked about my fit foods I used to use them 10 years ago and I would I would so dumb I would heat up the in the plastic list I didn't know like 10 years ago I didn't know I'd heat up my little pre prep meal in the plastic in a microwave free micro plastic I so glad you brought that now I put it on a plate and I pulled I asked them to pull me the data from it was their bps in the containers or the cover and there wasn't they used some very expensive company to not have my so when working at the moment I love their stuff inside every can does a plastic line that's how you don't get stuff contaminated with the metal or however

2:24:34you can use a biodegradable natural plant compound liner so we're looking at how much it's gonna cost for us to line this please do that because I drink two of these I know I know the fuck you know I don't leave it with me until you find out 10 years from now it's some edamame based phytoestrogen is killing you yeah you're just like taking over your brain and you're treating everyone with new topic about just smart people can have kids God damn it yeah yeah I think this sort of current future that we've got moving toward with all of the different diagnostics all of the different interventions like it's what do you think if you were to make some of your predictions for where you think the attention is going to be in future I think air quality is going to be huge that's just about coming online I think light pollution internally flicker led stuff like that is there anything else if you could social media anabolic yeah bigger and bigger anabolic okay what do you mean social use of social media like it's it we're have awareness but I don't think we yet really understand how detrimental it is

2:25:37to children and development like being on technology and the level of technology that kids are exposed to uh-huh is going to have some sort of major impact that we'll look back and go wow was that like the tobacco of our times the smoking of teenagers in 2026 yeah yeah um no one thought the idea that anabolic what do you mean like the anabolic agents that they use in HIV and wasting that were used like nandrolone yeah things beyond testosterone they're used in HIV and wasting FDA approved yeah anabolic agents I think it's going to be you you mean that anabolic agents will become an increasingly popular uh treatment strategy for sarcopenia or yeah there's a major study on androlohn and bone mineral density uh you guys earlier were talking about free test austro one of the like little tricks that I think I learned from Larry there are there are car lads except there's a growth hormone and it might be able to be used for actual cartilage repair as well and then there's things like men who have an issue with free versus total right so you've got

2:26:42their total testosterone at a optimal level but they're free is suffering right a lot of times that's um sex binding goblin hormone yeah and so then if you add in a microdose of anabar it will literally like a pac man gobble up the sex binding goblin interesting microdosing anavas scale although yeah although I like the I think the elephant in the room with shbg though is that sex hormone binding goblin is also something that increases in a state in which you uh in in which the body senses something like famine starvation stress or any type of scenario in which it would be unwise to bring more humans into the world right and so so people who are on like a strict ketogenic diet have high shbg people who are under a lot of cortisol load high stress they have high shbg so in many cases like it can be something as simple as just like do like eat more carbs with dinner sleep a little more lower stress yeah it goes up what do you think about anandrolone in older

2:27:46male populations as like obviously you still keep them on a test sip or ananthate but then microdose and other low doose I think that that's going to be the way the future we have to address it and if we if we de and this so we have a mutual friend dr. Larry lip shults the godfather of male fertility yeah he's the I've known him for 30 years like wings and an arrow he's been he's been using peptides for literally like 20 years to write for gq magazine uh he's got he's but he's a heavy heavily accredited academic um at Baylor college of medicine in Houston Texas he's literally wrote the book on urology and he's just such a subject matter expert he's the one who originally taught me and like helped me I mean I was I was literally 25% body fat doing crossfit every day trying to eat right couldn't figure things out felt like I was just run ragged and he optimized me to wear all the sudden I went from 25% to 7% without testosterone he literally used hcg and clomaphine and

2:28:50was one of the first no andro yeah no he's in his able that's the future we have to address whatever happened to gh rp2 and jch rp6 and mod grf because I was fucking about with that 15 years ago and that I would I'm surprised when we're talking about oh we're gonna have a human growth hormone rather than going exogenous trying to create some endogenous feedback right you mean like like growth hormones to create dogs yes uh i think better options came out and there was such a hunger surge to there was a lot of oh fucking gratitude you was like did you have to use it do you ever try and I would swear to try this no no um gh this is an early growth hormone yeah growth hormone releasing hexapeptide and by by peptide you know who prescribed me it was Larry lib sholts and this was again like 15 years so we had to do the other pet beds we were talking about like testimeral on an ibuparillon cjc 1295 a lot of those are what people are using now yeah right they mimicking the same sort of a same pathway but without all of the like yeah that with a lower side

2:29:52effect profile and the same as we used to we used to shoot it when I was in university the only way that you could use it was if you hit yourself with it as you were cooking because by the time that you would finish the meal you were like beyond ravenous because it's just dumping grueling and right like just over overwhelming it was great if you're trying to put on weight right so what happens is it still used no it's transition out nobody really uses everything would totally be stuck in your rubber type secretive oxygen yeah down to your top I think I think by the way you mentioned light pollution yes and you said air pollution right yes yeah I think at quality and light quality are going to be I think I think water and electricity are three and four I think what is already been done okay so waters are had been done electricity would mean um non native EMF such as Wi-Fi routers 5G square wave form signals at a higher intensity and things that may cause either actual thermal heating if very close to the body such as like cell phone radio

2:30:55frequency or low level up regulation of channels in cells how crazy do you tell us in the low cell adeno level are you that aggressive my house is pretty aggressive like everything is hard wired with metal shielded cables ethernet there is no Wi-Fi every floor is grounded I mean at my house we pulled out all the stops in terms of circadian friendly lighting to address light pollution the bigger you don't understand Ben Ben Schoeller filter or scrubberer Ben showed me the guy that came in to help who the bio bio home dude what was his name Brian Hoyer right so this guy comes in looking like I do it out of fucking ghostbusters like meters like 20 and like more meters than you've ever seen in your life that measure he was like doctor octopus magnetic and electric all of this bullshit attached to his arms and he's down around like you know spring of a palteguysts and stuff see in the corner the 5G in the corner we got to get ready the 5G there's a murder here 20 years ago so oh you absolutely feel a difference and and a lot of this stuff of course has the has the big fat woo bat signal on it because it is an inconvenient truth

2:32:02there may be an effect on everything from the the neurochemical balance in cells based on low level exposure to radiation or radio frequencies or EMF to the effect that it might have on something like negative eye unload in the body which is why I'm a huge fan of the grounded floors or thing grounding going outside barefoot but I don't think that there is a biological free cost to having a radio frequency device in your pocket as some bones can data suggest might be an issue and sperm data or just sitting next to a life round down isn't there a in the phone itself and the iPhone itself somebody had covered this that it literally tells you you're supposed to keep it a certain distance you are yeah from your cell that that's I think the best matter though like is is if you eliminate that stuff and of course the single most important place to do it is your bedroom where your nervous system has a chance to arguably repair and recover for like eight hours

2:33:02for a 24 hour cycle but as many places in the home as you can down regulate exposure to that stuff I think it's a good idea you're right in the category with light water and air you worry about eight sleep then I do not use an eight sleep for those reasons I I'm not going to piss them off because I know they're other sponsor yeah okay yeah I mean you can say what I use a different one that that still cools my bed but that tests lower with an EMF meter right okay I think yeah a math meter yeah yeah yeah at least from what I know I prefer for my ghost buster to talk into a bunch of talking to a bunch of friends they Faraday cage the cooling tower of that eight sleep you could do that and that's why most of the if you do the actual test yeah there's there's much less on the pad than on the controlling device itself so yeah so they just Faraday cage you could totally ten four yeah can you give can you give a layman's explanation so a lot of people ionizing non-ionizing radiation blue I see that you're always with wide headphones stuff like that yeah what's the 30,000 foot view of the most defensible science behind EMF's exposure to electrical

2:34:11frequencies and stuff like that. Class three Bluetooth signals which defines most of what we're using on our heads in our ears etc a very little data showing that there's any deleterious effect at all. So you're talking that that that is that is more like a I'm not sure so I'm going to play a safe type of strategy for me to be using wired headphones. You know Pascal's wager you're right. Exactly it's a Pascal it's a it's a technological Pascal wager for Wi-Fi for 5G for 4G the the biggest response to it from a from an electrochemical balance in the cell standpoint is proximity to the source right so the farther you can be from a Wi-Fi router for example in your home or your office the better like your neighbor's Wi-Fi signals if you've got your home totally tricked out and all your Faraday paint and cages or whatever is not that big of an issue because they're so far away but if you're sleeping with your head whatever one to two feet on the other side of the wall from the Wi-Fi router that's where there's a bigger issue. The there are other things people

2:35:12worry about electric cars. Testless are actually designed to be pretty low EMF there is a signal that exceeds the safety limit if you are in the backseat right next to the battery so if you like having to eat and backseat of a Tesla most of the rest of it is safe and I have a video online where we're in and tested everything in the Tesla but if you were going to shield anything it'd be the actual backseat and then the other major sources in a home would be like appliances dry or washer microwave only while it's running like if you were right next to the wind's running so basically keeping those appliances as far away as possible from the bedroom or anywhere where you're at for an extended period of time basically don't put your laptop on the washer which I know you do and work from that during the day. Okay. Yeah. Major appliances and then the phone would just basically also be a proximity to the body and be the bar signal the lower the bar signal the higher

2:36:14radio frequency output in order to be searching for a signal so when the plane is about to land and a hundred people on the plane all turn their cell phones on when you're maybe still like I don't know like like let's say at two thousand feet and you've still got one bar that's a pretty hazardous place to be because you all of a sudden have like a hundred devices pushing out a ton of radio frequency because they're all searching for a signal at the same time so that's that's where you pull on your tinfoil hat is right when the plane's about to land that's crazy or EMF blocking my girlfriend literally got me the tinfoil hat I have an action I wear one for international flights I wear full-cheered the cap and she's like when I put this on on my son's I have EMF blocking my son's for long haul flights yeah just just for the radiation for one haul flight it's interesting actually got this this is for you to wear today I love it make autism great again this is what I'm gonna put on every time I land does it block you mess with it I hope so

2:37:20I'm fucking blown away by the Tesla thing by setting in the back the back seat I'm gonna get lots of the batteries but for every problem there's gonna be a solution so someone is now going to make a child seat presumably which yeah yeah so so I have called four body shops and so far found none the Tesla dealership for warranty reasons won't do it who will actually install the shielding material in the back seat so I have just like a giant piece of fabric from Brian and shielded healing this is like sitting in the back of the Tesla right now but I haven't actually been able to find anyone who's gonna pull the seat out and install it properly like between the back seat and the battery because so there's a great business model out there for someone out there somewhere biologically safe testless EMF shielding for the back seat yeah I have a Tesla because I can't find it does it make a meaningful difference oh yeah when you put the shielding material the meter drops down it's just it's it's ugly to just have a giant piece of of shielding material just like propped in the back seat why does it have to get it installed or like underneath the upholstery or

2:38:22whatever I'm feeling so funny I was watching your documentary congratulations on the new documentary by the way well thank um I was watching this last night and I was looking at by the way he was disappointed that they didn't actually show the penis injection scene I was only that for the penis yeah yeah reliably I only arrive at events me and Zach Efron at the back of the cinema just like I'm waiting for the penis like she only the fucking penis um one of the things that I noticed was the most Ben Greenfield thing in the world is to design the perfect house to ensure there's no EMFs everything's local area networked and copper wiring and all the rest of it living room fucking tons of boxes of new shit that he just had sent to his house tons and tons of cardboard boxes now it's like that's a man who gets lots of packages I have a lot I have a soft spot in my heart for a man that receives a lot of packages it's a worse when you try I literally have an assistant who sits at home and opens packages and sends me photos to an Asana project when I'm traveling so that everything can be unboxed and put away when I get home because one of my greatest sources of stress when I travel is getting home to all of the the worst the boxes

2:39:22worst so I've outsourced I enjoyed I enjoyed seeing the boxes yeah but yeah it's a lot of boxes yeah lots of lots lots of cool free things um on the air quality thing I think that is CO2 is something that I think people are going to pay a lot of attention to but that'll be further down the line before that it's going to be humidity and mold like you're right fucking huge but when it gets easy if we have small travel mold detectors that you could put on your backpack air quality detectors with the problem or like a canary that you could train uh for mold yeah for mold it's just dropped it yeah here here uh one of the problems that you have and I only found this out from speaking to Mike from Jasper is that you can't have an air purifier or he calls it a scrubber scrubber with different I know your dad was huge into this stuff right was uh my dad was water for sure yeah um you can't have the sensor be in the scrubber because the turnover of air is too high so you always have to have two separate because it's

2:40:25basically pulling air through the sensor itself yeah so you can't have that you need to have a sensor that's over one side that's looking at CO2 that's looking at mold particles and then you need to have this but that means that you now have two units for one thing that's detecting yeah you need the detector and the scrubber and then like like if you could have the perfect setup at home and you weren't renting you could just put in your own HEPA filtration system you would have a filter you would have a scrubber right so the filter you see like the merv rating which is just like the particular rating like that's the actual like filter that's catching stuff that you pull out and change you know every six months or whatever in your home then you have the scrubber which keeps the actual mold from building up in the ducts themselves and a lot of times that uses that's using like UV or ozone or something like that and then a recirculator that's pulling in fresh air from the outdoors so you're not just filtering stale and also so you get into the next two. So yeah scrubbing your recirculating and you're filtering all three like that's the best set. So is that so it's three different units. It's basically three different technologies being used for

2:41:29something like central HEPA filter. What should happen and I think this is where the guys from Jasper Mike's going to end up doing it is all of this can be fixed if you just put it into AC like if you just go after the AC unit you don't need to do any of the additional stand-alone unit thing the reason that Jasper exists at the moment is that there isn't enough cleaning going on through the AC and if you're in an apartment block or if you've got a house trying to retrofit that you're going to have to budget together like some Ben Greenfield testicle like it's not it's it's too much to do so you're having to scrub inside of a room because the air that's coming in from the AC even with a dehumidifier the best that you can get at the moment is tough. I mean what did you do for your AC? Did you have to budget together or did you find something that was ready made? Oh we went with a local company called Laser and they do scrubber they do filter and they do recirculation. I think you'll have to do it at the block. It's a level that's needed to get rid of malt though. Yeah. Yeah. Like they're they're using a Merve filter that will basically catch anything that's like PM 2.5 which is I think it's PM 2.4 to PM 10 are the main sizes that you can

2:42:33concern about but I still because wildfire season and also in the kitchen where the rating for the height of the the hood over the stove for the actual filtration system above the stove when you're cooking is too high to actually catch everything that gets released when you're cooking so even if you have a filter in the kitchen you're getting a massive amount of PM 2.5 every time you cook so I have a standalone HEPA air filter in the kitchen and then a bunch in other rooms that I pull out when it's like wildfire season or there's a bunch of smoke. There are eight Jasper filters back in our Airbnb right now here in Austin running the f**kers so we have six more house to me it's worth it to filter then to as much as I travel get exposed in an Airbnb or hotel room and be dealing with mold for the next two years. Like it's way better as a snippet of what you said is important is when you're exposed you're exposed over a period of time it takes a long time to get rid of it. Yeah. So you're minus well. Yeah. You you you work a lot with malt obviously it's been a

2:43:36huge part of my life over the last couple of years. How how brief of an exposure do you need in order to cause an effect? Do you like is one night six months of detox is there any equation that's been coming from I think well part of it so yes I do and treat mold and environmental toxins in our medical practice and I will tell you I think it comes down in part to genetics. Some people are affected some people are not obviously there's no it's not like okay so you have low testosterone for six months here's going to be your subsequent effects but an exposure of even a week can a week's better though you at least just delayed Chris's fears about his one night stand with the Holy Woman. So have you gotten sick with mold you must have? I've gone for a look you haven't yeah have you done your genomic testing to work out whether you've got the different polymorphisms that be your detox pathways for lime and for mold and stuff. I have a little bit of

2:44:38impaired glutathione detoxification pathways and use some glutathione I've never had significant mold exposure but interest knock on what I mean I lived in me and another guy lived in the same house me and Zach that's right and one of us him fine me same fucking house dude like and he was ripping vapes going to bed at three in the morning playing gigs. He's me like getting up sunlight in the eyes fucking grounding listening to a band and Cuban and you are and it wrecked me so it really is if you just have rolled the genetic dice and then you kind of hit the equivalent of the jack the inverse jackpot living in an environment like it's it's a real roommate with the frickin like Viking Nephilim genes. It's just it's just completely untouched by it but yeah I think the mold thing is going to be so already is sort of picking up speed but Arianna Thacker from the mold co she rules she make a protocol all of that stuff I think is going to be massive like teaching people about binders and so on our exposure and TGF based mold co is kind of like systematized

2:45:39everything to where they have like the testing the solutions everything on one stop shop yeah which is really cool yeah really cool slash possibly the fox guarding the handhouse but I still think it's a good idea how so well if they're testing and then supplying the solutions based on the test results. So you were incentivized to get the test potential but I've gone through the website and seen what they're doing and I think that they're doing a good service. I mean you need to be a real scumbag to be yeah falsifying people's test so you can then I would hope not I would therapeutic no I didn't have so yeah what's cool is all of the problems that we think are sort of in the future there's already solutions or proto solutions that already exist so for people that have got systemic issues hormones health optimizing like you guys and similar to you guys exist for the light problems we've got people thinking about LEDs for mold we've got the mold co for blood testing and mass we've got function for you know air quality we've got jawha you know every there's already we've aquatru from reverse osmosis like there's already the beginnings of solutions

2:46:45it's just a case of kind of telling people about it that makes me feel more confident because I guess like 15 years ago all of these problems still existed but there wasn't even the nascent version of some company that could maybe fix it best resource I ever found and I really wanted to interview the author on my podcast and hopefully she doesn't hear this horrible interview because she was a little boring and didn't do a great job explaining but the book was fantastic it was called prescription for a healthy home and it's like everything it's carpets appliance it's roofing it's painting like ever like I gave it to the people building my home like I bought it for the architect and the building team because I wanted them to read it was so thorough as far as everything that I went into for building materials from the ground up or outfitting like an existing condo or apartment or somewhere that you're not building from scratch um excellent guide and it's like I think it was published two years ago maybe it's a pretty relevant and a real final thing that I love which I think will pick up speed will be uh proper genetic testing so in talax DNAs who you

2:47:48guys use uh that leases put me through a little bit expensive you need a healthcare practitioner provider whatever to get in between you I know that function are about to release their own version at some point later this year which you'll democratize that I'm sure you guys have all got your own versions of this too but it's the only test you only ever need to do once that's true yeah it's so until chris virgin editing really takes off well you got the following standing thing when we were in row attempt together yeah how did that work did you gain muscle at a more rapid rate than I would have expected without changing protein calorie intake or my weight training protocol around 10 pounds and three months uh it's not permanent you would need to repeat it I think everyone's to one and a half years and uh unfortunately uh at the time I was under the impression it was reversible in case shit hit the fan and something went wrong it's not actually reversible um i thought it was reversible yeah uh no that's the issue is that uh it is not um and the company is

2:48:51now readily admitting that it's not uh and doctors were supposed to reach out to their patients and tell them that oops it's not um so that's the only issue now is it's just like well if you're gonna get your genes edited it'd be nice to know that if something goes wrong you could reverse it yeah yeah why me we did go to a small island off the coast of Honduras and which is specifically a network state that doesn't have any oversight of basically any nation so that you could get this experimental gene therapy and now you're like wow they didn't tell you I understand yeah I understand that I was taught from that technology is it's not uh editing a gene it's turning on a pre-existing gene you are correct it's not a crisper gene and then it'll turn back off over time it's it's it's up basically like up regulating or down regulating a gene so uh yeah like joking aside the the only reason that you'd have to do a genetic test twice in a lifetime is if you are actually using crisper gene editing yeah yeah yeah pretty sick guys you all rule I appreciate you where should people go to check out everything we've told them so many interesting companies ways

2:49:55to well dot com the number two yeah yeah go to my website dr gabriel lion dot com all of the channels the podcast um these two are getting PhDs to come on let's do it let's go and uh yeah strong medical with lifespan MD if you want to be my patient I don't do rectal exam so there's not a lot of bend green fills out they're such Google is good I appreciate you all you all rule thank you to keep an everyone alive the moment you keep it yes that's one so my saying how you feel out loud is terrifying but that's what hinges new free audiobook no ordinary love is all about it's a collection of real love stories about five couples that met on hinge the stories are written and read by tempeh dinton herst nicola dynan Curtis garner raven smith and rufy thorp i hunter herris wrote and read the forward the audiobooks out now give it a listen