Bob Murphy Show - Dave Smith KOs Alan Dershowitz on Iran

0:00The Bob Murphy Show Episode 531. ["The Bob Murphy Show"] ["The Bob Murphy Show"] ["The Bob Murphy Show"] There's a tidal wave coming. What's you gonna do? Get ready for another episode of The Bob Murphy Show. The podcast promoting free markets, free minds, and grateful souls. It's your source for commentary and interviews, conducted by a Christian and the communist. Now here's your host, Bob Murphy. ["The Bob Murphy Show"] Hey, everybody. Welcome back to The Bob Murphy Show. We've got another crossover. This time, Adam and I are playing clips from and commenting upon Dave Smith's recent debate against Alan Dershowitz on the Iran War, but it also spilled over into other issues as well. So I think you're gonna like it. If you've seen even other commentaries,

1:00you don't wanna miss ours. We have the best clips, and we also pull in some external items as well. To supplement this, I think this is gonna be... If you only watch one analysis of the zero-head debate between Dave and Dershowitz, this is the one for you. Here we go. Hi, Bob. Hey, Adam. So I was scrolling through the YouTube, as is my want. And I thought I was gonna run across this interesting debate about the Iran War and its pros and its cons, and where we are after six months in comparison to the stated aims. But I must have misclicked, because all I saw is a couple of Jews yelling at each other, and one of them calling the other anti-Semite over and other was really weird. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? So, David says, yes, I hate myself, but not because I'm Jewish. Yes, surely you referred to Alan Dershowitz versus Dave Smith, and the zero-head debate they had

2:01on the Iran War. It was going to be about that. It ended up morphing into... It was one of the most entertaining debates I've ever seen, and it was also just one of the worst debates I've ever seen. As far as like discussing the actual issue, and then it turning into a flame war, it was like a girls' locker room in high school. Including Dershowitz threatening... I'm going to walk out if he interrupts you one more time. If he interrupts me again after I've interrupted him 50 times, I'm going to hit the button. I'm at the button. You watch me, I'll hit the button. Yeah, it was bizarre. Yeah. You'd expect that from a New York City-based stand-up comedian, like Harvard Law Professor, that as a household name that I've known about since I was a little kid, you wouldn't have thought such behavior would be warranted. Yeah, I didn't know to attribute that to a man who's 88, or just a man who's not familiar with a new media environment. Like, he probably wouldn't do that on Fox News. But like in this environment, he thinks that's okay to do, I don't know.

3:04So maybe, so folks, just so you know, we've got plenty of clips here. We promised ourselves beforehand that we weren't going to get bogged down and analyzing any one of them for too long. We're actually doing the service for future historians here by just documenting a lot of stuff. You're welcome. I guess before we start just plowing through the clips here, you want to give your overall reactions, and I'll give mine? Absolutely. We're going to play my first clip, which is Alan Dershwitz framing of this whole thing. And it has to be seen to be believed. He said, it's always 1935 in my eyes. Therefore, I need the US military to overthrow anybody I point to because they're always Hitler in my eyes. I'll play it for you, and you'll see whether I'm being hyperbolic or not, not very much. And then Dave, I thought in his opening, he just smashed the objectives of the war, pointed out that Trump is lying us into this hostile,

4:05he always has been, and says it's bad for us. And then the most bizarre thing happened, which is Alan Dershwitz says, yeah, I don't want to debate that. I just want to say we should overthrow this regime. Forget the particulars. It was the craziest thing I've ever wondered. And then we had an hour and 10 minutes of Jew on Jew violence. I guess it was petty. It was veiled racist threats. And it was, most bizarre thing I've ever seen. Yeah, OK, well, that's a good reaction. Yeah, let me just say in the YouTube comments, when I was looking through this, people were saying stuff like, Dave's going to get arrested for elder abuse. And people were liking it to the things that is saying, is Dave, does he have a post, what's they call postpartum depression, because he just murdered someone, stuff like that. Dave kept trying to pull it back. I think he felt bad, because Alan's 88. But he was just kept being so nasty. Yeah, so I just, you jot it down on a list here. I want to just say this quickly, because I know

5:06we've got the clips here, folks. But I mean, Dave just destroyed him both. In terms of having command, I mean, Dave was giving orders to the moderator. So there is a bit of it. Almost at times, I felt a little bit like, I don't know, I just felt weird. Dave just so much took command of that thing that he's literally telling the moderator what to do. But on the other hand, Dave clearly won both on points, but also just rhetoric and whatnot and style. And we have some clips here, folks, to justify all those claims I'm making. And so I was glad about this one, because this by far, like the highest profile, this is a Harvard law professor, household name, involved in like the OJ Simpson trial and things like that that everybody knows this guy is. And so for Dave, just to blow him up was pretty impressive. And also too, it's not like Dersher would seem like he was seen Isle or something like he seemed to come in with faculties and just went in with a losing hand. So there's all that. But I just just jot it down like so who is Dave Beaton in debates,

6:10Josh Hammer, like nowadays to us, like I seems like a joke, but before Dave, you know, he was seeing an enter something. I mean, he was like a guy you would have thought on paper was surely know this material better than some standup comedian has got a podcast with Douglass Murray. Again, I warned Dave ahead as I'm not even know if Dave got the message, but I was saying watch out this guy, you know, is sharp. I've seen him in front of crowds and stuff. He's very charming. And just on that one, I would say it was more that Murray just, you know, forfeited rather than Dave destroyed him, but still technically you're scoring it. Dave won that debate. Alex Naresta, not even on foreign policy stuff, Dave went to the Soho Forum and beat Kato's immigration guy on immigration. That's pretty impressive. And there's, you know, subjectively measured in terms of, you know, who won that debate. He's debated to Nash D'Souza. I don't think that was like total annihilation, but I think Dave clearly won that debate. Again, D'Souza is a very glib, you know, airy-dite guy. I didn't watch this one myself, but Dave and a, you know,

7:11tag team guy took on Dennis Prager and somebody else. Yeah, I was going to mention that it was decisive. Again, okay, so I didn't watch what you're saying is, and now again, he destroys Alan Derser. So here, like I say, it's good that some of these other ones, like with Murray and I guess you could maybe say Josh Hammer, that like those guys were just saluted Chris out of the gate that, you know, it's not so much the day one. He just let them lose. But with here, Derser, it's like Dave just destroyed the guy. And then I'll just say this and close the, the only two that I think that I've ever seen Dave, I don't think he lost these debates, but where he got tripped up at times, whereas these other ones, it was just rolling over the opponents was with Coleman Hughes and I don't know if you heard him debate Andrew Wilson and Libertarianism. And there it was more like Wilson was annoying me, just I can't stand that guy, just, you know, cards on the table. But I think Dave did get a little tripped up in there, like these are the ways he was trying to defend the non-aggression principle where he was doing, I forget. And so I think you got a little tripped up there and same thing with Coleman. And I think, you know, what's the common element and all this stuff?

8:14Is I think people, the other guy's underestimated Dave and just this is some punk comedian and kid me. You know, this has been the, yeah, sure. Okay, he's a big deal. People say I should go blow him up and then, ooh, he's not. I think that's what happened, whereas Coleman and Andrew, you know, prepared and like didn't, didn't think I had a time that they were better than him. So they went in Guns Blazum. And it's really unfair. You say punk comedian, not only is he not that. And not only is he very, very comedian. Not only is he very well read on the subjects and not only is he defending the objectively in my view, correct side, but he's got gears that people just don't see coming. Like in most sports games, if you're too aggressive, you leave yourself open for the, for the comeback shot. I mean, this is everything, fencing, boxing, debate. At one point, we didn't play this clip, but at one point, Alan Dersherwood's just reflexively criticizes Dave's character for, since he doesn't want this war,

9:16for quote unquote, defending Iran or something. And Dave just immediately goes, well, if you're not supposed to defend bad people because it makes you a bad guy. Oh, Jay Simpson, Jeffrey Epstein, you know. Well, but even there though, that could be right. The clip that we're not going to play for you folks, he actually didn't name them there. He named him at the end. There he was wide. He just shrugged. You know, it was like. So. And Trump, you know, if you think the Trump is a bad man, you know, there's another one that I just rushes to defend. Anyway, my point being that, yeah, Dave has skills. I mean, he likes to ho-hum and while I just read the Scott Horton's books and, you know, I'm on the right side, but no, he's got mad skills. Yep. And we do it like I say, folks, don't worry. We have one clip here that I grabbed to make sure just to exhibit that where Dave, on the fly just, like, yeah, this is a, this is two thirds Allen Dersher. It's one third Dave, but there are a couple of nice mic drops. If you don't mind, I'd like to start

10:17because this was, they like, I'm sure the audience is like, yes, please. The podcasting book I read says you're supposed to have banter and explanatory commentary before you just play clips, like a lazy. Oh, it's for laughter. Yes, so this is Allen Dersher, which is opening. And it was weird. I'm just going to play it. I think this war is the most important war that the United States has fought since the Second World War. And let me tell you what, and let me tell you why. I mean, you know, first begin with one word, 1935. 1935 was the worst year in modern world history. Now, you might ask, what happened in 1935? The answer is nothing happened in 1935. That's why it was the worst year in modern history. In 1935, France and England could have stopped Nazi Germany.

11:17The Versailles Treaty had been signed. The Versailles Treaty prohibited the Germany from rearming. It prohibited Germany from instituting a draft. They violated those and other provisions of the Versailles Treaty. And France and England did nothing. It's Winston Churchill wrote in a book while England slept. And John Kennedy wrote a similar book while Europe slept. The world allowed Nazism to end up taking how many, 50, 60, 70 million lives, which could have been avoided. If France and England had engaged in a preventive war, not a preemptive war, because it wasn't imminent, but a preventive war based on the Versailles Treaty. If both countries had sent in troops and had set back, even if they hadn't destroyed, set back the German military, the German armament industry considerably.

12:22You know what would have happened? Whoever did it, Winston Churchill had been the prime minister. They would have been attacked and they would have been condemned. Oh my God, what did you do? Hitler wasn't posing in immediate threat. He's some tin-horned dictator. He would have probably gone away. Maybe he would have lost the next election. Because history is blind to the future. We only understand the past. We don't know the future. And we now know that had they done this, even if they hadn't succeeded completely, even if they had been condemned, they could have saved tens and tens of millions of lives. So I look at everything I see today through the prism of 1935, 1939, 1940 to 1945, the worst years, and probably the history of the world, and how it could have been prevented had there been action taken in 1935. So in my view, that was pathetic and also an admission.

13:23He views everything through the lens of 1935 to 1945. And he never says exactly why Iran is like Hitler, except that he thinks he wants the regime flipped. And look how prenicious the argument is. Anytime I, Alan Dershowitz, point to a country and say that regime needs to be flipped. And I'll give you some serious reasons. And if you don't, you're appeasing Hitler and we're going to end up with a bunch of holocaust to Jewish people and the World War II. That's a pathetic argument. That's an argument that can't be defeated. But that's OK, because it's so spindly, it falls apart by just looking at it. And that was his whole thing. That was his whole point. Yeah, folks, that was for us to summarize the debate. That was the single argument that Dershowitz actually made. It's like his whole case rest that falls on that particular claim. So in the interest of gravity, we're not playing right. We're not playing Dave's response to that, or are we?

14:25Oh, no. I don't think we are. OK. So that means that was long. And there was a lot of points I summarized them earlier. Just he went through and said, why this is such a bad idea? Right. So yeah, and Dave, I think on the fly given that's what he's responding to, did an able job responding to that. I thought what we'd do here is try to expand it a bit. So Dave is kind of narrowly, in a sense, conceded the point. I mean, he didn't come out and say, yeah, I'm so glad the US went in the World War II. Obviously he didn't say that. But he kind of didn't, and I think probably correctly judging the audience whenever figured I'm not going to sit there and try to say that, you know, appeasement was a good idea or something. But instead was just pointing out, you could use that to justify anything, kind of like what you just did. I mean, to any point further, any head is on opening that he wanted to make. Right. I mean, you could just as easily argue, I mean, really, when you think about it, strangling German toddlers, at least as their male, like in the long run, like that, he had done that. And then, you know, what, 19 times?

15:26Burling 19. Yeah. I would do the math. I mean, if you think about it, that would have saved lives. Like, yeah, sure, they would have killed, you know, they would have been like King Herod and killed up about, you know, when you're like, about it. And there would have been DeFetus P. Snick, so it would have come along. It said that's a bad idea. But all the German mothers, how mad they would have been, if we were to run around doing that, but I mean, come on, sometimes you just got to do it. Like we now know looking back, you know, history is always backward looking, but we know, right? So you could say that that clearly wouldn't follow. Also, just step back and listen to what he's saying. It's like, geez, if only the world, if only like England and France had been willing to be tough and go fight a war against Germany ahead of time, then World War II wouldn't have happened. No, actually, I think it's kind of the other way around. You know what I mean? And so, like, let's say they did do that in the 30s, and they went ahead and did that, and they could have imposed a treaty on the Germans, like a real harsh one too, and they could have made the Germans pay for that, you know, that invasion that they had to do. And then, yep, that would have solved the problem, right? No, because again, that's the whole point is, they were right there in the wake of the first time,

16:27the whole world went to war against Germany to stop them. And even, you know, this isn't like the Scott Horton Academy view of things, what did you learn, Adam, about what was one of the causes of the first World War entangling alliances, right? Like, that's what we were taught in the history books. So, I mean, this is a standard thing. It's even, you know, among mainstream historians, a respectable view to say if the US had just stayed out of World War I, that might have spared a lot of the agonies of the 20th century. So again, this idea that we're just going to focus on the one thing in the mid 1930s and say, ah, reluctance to go wage war against Germany is really what made the Holocaust happen. That's nutty. And also the thing I say all the time, people act as if the, you know, World War II didn't start, the Holocaust occur, there's six million dead Jews, and then all of a sudden the Allies finally got their act together and went to, no, all the bad stuff that we're blaming on passivism happened while World War II was raging. Just like, you know, you couldn't say, oh yeah, it's a good thing that Japanese attack Pearl Harbor because look what the Americans did. They didn't turn all those Japanese Americans, right?

17:30Like, they would be goofy. And so, you know, I get it that their premise is, oh, Hitler killed six million, that's the official here, in the Holocaust, and it would have been more had they not stopped them. But again, you could flip it and argue, we don't know because governments get away with doing a lot of horrendous stuff when their people think that, you know, they're, it's, the world is against them and they better win this war, they're dead. So anyway, I think, I think that's probably enough. You could do a whole episode on that stuff, like, we're so brevity. I have three things I could respond to and they're all, they're all home runs, but no, we do have to move on. It's just a crazy argument that I made. Bob, before we continue, I want to have a completely natural, totally spontaneous discussion about how awesome the new Scott Horton Academy is and why everybody listening should go to ScottHortonAcademy.com slash cross-over and immediately sign up for it.

18:30Exactly, folks. I knew I was gonna like it. After all, I liked Scott, I interviewed him on my show several times, I've seen him in long form interviews like Tucker Carlson and I just thought, oh, this is just be like that, but more so. And it is that, but it's even better. Just to give you an example, like, Scott goes through a presentation and he's got multimedia. Like, I actually, you can see the video of Saddam Hussein calling off names and having people taking out back. And I don't think they were given a retirement package. I don't know exactly what happened. I don't speak the language, but it didn't look too good for them. And lots of stuff like clips of Jimmy Carter praising the Shavaran, you know, just all kinds of stuff like that, really helping you to understand how the heck did we get into this mess? And so I know it sounds like I'm just saying this for the ad, but it really is true that I'm not gonna watch a movie or something later on. I'm gonna get back to listen to ScottHortonAcademy.com with the Hacker App with US War and Balancing. So I can't recommend that enough. Awesome. Remember folks, go to ScottHortonAcademy.com forward slash crossover.

19:32And you will get a great discount. And Bob and I will get a kickback. So you will be supporting these crossover episodes. Our next clip, you chose Bob. And it's a mashup of two things that Alan Dershow which was saying he's basically addressing the claims that Netanyahu influenced Trump to enter the Iran War and also the parallel issue of American Zionists like Alan Dershow it's doing the same thing influencing politics. So here's what he had to say. You quoted Netanyahu saying is exactly Winston Churchill did in the 1930s and early 1940s. The K came to America. He went on American media. He was interviewed by American newspapers. He was looking out for the interests not only of Great Britain but of world peace. And he was urging the United States to get into the war. And Franklin Delano Roosevelt didn't completely comply.

20:33He did the Len Lies. He gave aid but he waited until obviously Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Germany declared war and other countries declared war in the United States. But every prime minister of every country is always gonna be urging other countries to come to its defense and help it. It's nothing wrong with that. Now President Trump didn't just roll over. He made his own decision. I know President Trump. I've defended him. I was his lawyer during the impeachment. He didn't vote for him when I was his lawyer during the impeachment but I was his lawyer. The way John Adams was the lawyer for the people who committed the worst in massacre. That's what lawyers do. And so I know him. He's not gonna roll over. He's not gonna simply say because not to know who he is mixed feelings about. Asked me to do it. I'm gonna do it. He did it because he felt it was in the best interest in the United States. And now this is just a couple minutes ahead. Isn't Jewish Americans those who are Zionists like I am?

21:33Have the right to support Israel. I always put America first. I always think of what is best for America, what is best for world peace. But in thinking about what's best for world peace, I take into consideration Israel, Israel's survival, Israel's the only democratic country in the Middle East. It's the only country that completely and unequivocally supports the United States and helps the United States with its intelligence, with developing iron dome and other rockers. So I'm very proud of my support for America, support for Israel and my voting for candidates. Who I believe support peace and oppose countries like Iran, which are not only opposed to Israel, but they're opposed to the United States. The United States is the big devil. Israel is the small devil. It's the United States Marines who were killed by Iran. Yes, Iran. Iran put Haspala up to it. We had a trial in Argentina where it was proved to judges that Iran put up the people

22:35who blew up the Jewish community center and the embassy. It was Iran. Iran has done all these things. I know you have a lot to say on this, Bob, but really quick. Remember that old toy from when we were kids? It's a, you sit it on a table and it's a bird. And it bobs forward and then puts his beak in the water and then it bounces back and forth. And then it does it again. Well, ladies and gentlemen, those of you who are not fortunate enough to be watching this video, apparently there's some debating technique or lawyer technique you learn at Harvard that Alan Dershwitz is demonstrating by which you make your points by leaning forward into the camera all bunch. And it's pretty funny to watch. Makes the jurors, you know, get back to your little. Yeah, get scared, huh? Yeah. This guy's like the only anchor to the reality or something. I get my footing. Yeah, so there, I mean, on the one hand, like maybe you can go through each one independently, but the reason I linked those two clips together and they didn't occur that far apart,

23:37they were too far for us to play the whole thing through folks, but they weren't that far. Like three or four minutes, yeah. But it was, I think it was Dershwitz's like, he had come into the mic that entire time, I believe. Right? So it was just one long train of thought that he was going through that are responding to the, you know, the things that David said previously. And so notice the juxtaposition. Again, the context is he's responding to two things that Dave pointed out. One is Dave was saying, hey, you know, people are talking about all this Jewish resign is influence. I mean, there, you know, lots of people, Trump officials were basically admitting that, yeah, the reason we're in this war is because, you know, we're helping Israel. We're doing them a solid. Like we really have no business being in there. What the heck did Iran ever do to us? Right? So it's Dave's kind of making those points. And so Dershwitz thinking he's going to pick them apart. Number one, says this idea that President Trump was somehow hoodwinked into the war and, you know, the conniving Netanyahu rubbing his hands together and whatever or using his money to do that. That's nutty. No, President Trump, I know him. He's, you know, he's an alpha male. He's going to do what he wants to do. And maybe he made a mistake. Maybe he didn't, but come on.

24:38He's his own man. He does what's in the interest of the American public. This is crazy. And then to say, what do you mean Iran has never attacked the US? They blew up those murder. Sure, they did it via their proxy, his ball. But they put them up to it. It was Iran. It was Iran. So just, you notice aren't the leaders of his baller? Aren't they like their own agents? Like don't they have agency? Like how can Iranian officials force them to do anything? Doesn't has baller? How can you bring up the same thing Winston Churchill did? How can you bring up this obvious anti-persion trope by which they sinisterly pull the strings of the poor people in Lebanon? How dare you? Right. And what do they use? They probably use money. Right. And so is it like money influences has baller politics? I don't know. So for different reasons. That was my point. Among the, you know, responding to each thing in isolation, I just wanted to link them and just show you and notice how he pivoted and completely contradicted his worldview when it suited the argument. Yeah. I can't remember if we played it for about to play it. So forgive me if this is a repeat. But when Dave mentioned that a lot of us

25:41think that Netanyahu has undue influence with the Trump administration, he, the Alan Dershwitz, just went nuts. Said, you're an anti-Semite. That's an anti-Jewish trope. Pulling the strings. You can't say pulling the strings. And I was, I think that was the first time he flew off the handle and made this all about racist words or something disappointing. I don't really have much for this clip. I agree with what you said. I'm fine to move on if you are. Yeah, let's do it. All right. This, well, this mostly speaks for itself. Much like the first clip I played, it speaks to Alan Dershwitz's world of view that we are just always in the 1930s. And there's threats around every corner. And if we don't act horrible things are going to happen. And that's why I think he thinks he's so exercised about it.

26:42I want to go back to his first point where he says, Jews in America are killing it. They're not in any problem. There's no trouble. Let me tell you this. I have been a civil rights activist now for 70 years. I have defended the rights of African American people. I went down South. I marched with civil rights workers. I've defended the rights of gay Americans, transgenders, women, et cetera. There is no greater problem. No greater civil rights issue in the United States today. No greater civil rights issue than anti-Semitism in the United States today. None greater. This is far greater than racism, sexism, homophobia. Why? Because all the other problems are moving in the right direction. The trajectory is in the right direction. No politician today will get up and make a statement that black people are inferior or it's okay to hang them from trees. Nobody will say that about any other group today.

27:43But it's okay to say that about Jews. We see that the Metropolitan Museum was about to honor a man and said, Hitler, I love Hitler, and he would have killed all your people. He would never do that in relation to a gay person, a person who had said that by gay people, et cetera. So anti-Semitism today is the greatest civil rights issue. And anybody who is not prioritizing the fight against anti-Semitism, which is often disguised as anti-Zionism, but we know there are legitimate arguments against Israel, but there are also illegitimate ones that flow over anti-Semitism. Anyone who is not prioritizing the fight against anti-Semitism cannot proclaim themselves to be civil libertarians and advocates of civil rights. So it's important that we understand where we are. We're in 1932, Germany today. We're not in 1935. We're not in 1937, but we're in 1932.

28:43We're Jewish too at German universities. We're not treated equally. And we're not given equal standing. And we're not being admitted in proportion to their qualities and their contenders. We are in 1932, German. We are in 1932, Germany. I thought that was a crazy admission, Bob. And he said it. He made the conflation. I think he legitimately hears. If somebody criticizes whatever the Israeli government is doing, he hears that like you're saying, hey, it would be a great idea to take that blackfeller and hang him from a tree. I mean, he used that example. I think he thinks those are equivalent hateful statements or something. Yeah. So a lot of the here I want to say, I'm trying to organize my thoughts. So one thing is he said, no politician would get up and say, let's re-institute slavery or let's lynch somebody. OK, but Randy Fine, just to pick the obvious example, that jumps out, who's Republican in Florida, US representative,

29:47he talks about Palestinians and says some controversial things. Things like he posted remarks with the hashtag starve away and let them eat rockets and response to food shortages and stuff like that. He's openly said, guys, it must be destroyed. He said, there's no such thing as a Palestinian. He's publicly disparage cultural clothing, such as telling an individual wearing a US, or sorry, wearing a Palestinian cafee to enjoy your terrorist rag. So anyway, I could go on with things like that. So clearly, yes, it is OK for US officials to stand up and disparage Palestinians. Like that you can get away with doing it. Yeah, some people will condemn you, but that will cater to a certain audience. As far as the academic stuff, I don't remember in 1932 Germany that if people called for a letter to the editor condemning what was happening abroad,

30:47that criticized something that Jews were doing abroad that they would get kicked off campus. That's they would lose their funding and stuff like that. That happens now. There are speech codes where you cannot criticize Israel on certain college campuses right now. You can criticize the United States. You can criticize Germany, whatever, Denmark, wherever you want. You can't criticize Israel on certain college campuses in the United States. I don't think that was the case that the German government was going on the way to protect people from hearing anti-Jewish sentiment on college campuses. Also, what he was referring to, I had to go look it up. The story just broke September of this year that the Matt Hanna Gala exhibit for fashion designer, John Galeano, and apparently back in 2010 and 2011, he was convicted of an anti-Semitism trial in France that he had said things like I love Hitler, whatever.

31:47So he's like big in the fashion world. As people can tell from looking at my tire, I don't really move in those circles. I'm not up to speed on, but apparently he was a big deal. The Matt was going to honor him and then ADL and groups like that said, whoa, whoa, what are you talking about? Don't you know 15 years ago this guy got in trouble for saying all this, so that's what Dershowitz is responding to. I will say when I was reading some of this stuff, I was waiting. I guess I am surprised that the Matt was going to, you know, they took it back. Like after people were mad, they said, okay, yeah, we're just kidding, we're going to do that. But anyway, so that's what he was referring to. Yeah, I'm glad you looked it up. I had no idea what he was talking about and I don't care. It's, I just found it funny. Like how did they even know? Something that I mean, who tells the ADL, where does the bat signal come up that some anti-Semite from another country might be getting an award or an exhibit or something? It's weird. And about the Randi Fien saying horrible things

32:48about Palestinians, you cannot say you just caught Alan Dershowitz in a contradiction because he said, as if he defended the civil rights of black people, gay people, trans people and women. He didn't say anything about Palestinians. Right, that's true. Oh, I had another one too that he was saying, you would never see people honoring someone who condemns homosexuals or anything. There's chase shirts all over the place. And he was not a fan of the gays. So anyway, there's that as well. So certain things in the leftist culture, you know, Trump other things in their culture. So they do. They're hierarchy. And also, I don't know, do we have clips of them of Dave talking about like what fuels anti-Semitism? Oh, we might catch it glancing, William. Sorry, I can't remember. They went back and forth and it was a thread through out. So I can't remember how much we got. I think Dave did a great job. And I mean, this, I know this might be a weird thing to say. But I honestly think Dave did more in this debate

33:51to help bring some people back from the brink that they really don't like what the Israeli government is doing. They think they're doing some eyes or things. And they might just given the cultural milieu. Be tipped over into just outright. Yeah, I don't like Jews or you know, oh yeah, these, like these neo-Nazis, I kind of see where they're coming from now. Or you know, maybe like people who can go down that rabbit hole. I think Dave, you know, is going to pull a lot of them back if they see this debate because you know, Dave is explicitly saying things like, you know, Mr. Dershowitz, what I'm selling you is people like you who are conflating and saying anyone who criticizes the Israeli government, you're criticizing all Jews. That's a dangerous move. You don't want to be linking those together because now you're saying anyone who's against the Israeli government killing kids and Gaza, that you know, therefore you must be anti-Semit. They were like, okay, I guess I'm an anti-Semite then. I guess I do hate all, you know what I mean? Like they're not going to just say, oh geez, I'm going to shy away from being anti-Semitic.

34:53If it means I have to swallow mass, you know, murdering children, okay, I guess, I guess I got to suck that up because I wouldn't want to be called a name. Like that's not what's going to happen. Yeah, I think you're right. Like hover to the genuine anti-Semites who are trying to blame all Jews for that stuff by lumping them all in together. And so you know, so anyway, I'm saying people who might over time get sucked into that, I think Dave is doing the best that could be done, especially because he's Jewish to pull people back to be like, all right, that guy's all right. You forget what I'm saying. I don't know if that's weird for me to say, but it's not that you and me saying it. Yeah, there's more cash aid coming from him. There's no two ways about that. And I think you're right. He was beautiful and he said that. He emphasized the point several times in his debate that you're neighbor down the street who happens to be Jewish. Doesn't have anything to do necessarily with the government in Israel and it's shame on you people for conflating the two. And when he made that point to Al-Adur Shwitz, he just ran the same playbook. He called him racist, said there you go. Another anti-Semitic trope, you're saying that

35:55the things Jews say that make people hate Jews. He just did the exact same ridiculous playbook. He was pathetic. So yeah, well spotted. Our next clip, the moderator, was trying to get Al-Adur Shwitz to, you say you want to regime change. What are you willing to have the America do to get it? And what cost is too high? Any cost? And so it sounded kind of like this. Question two is the complete opposite. How far because you advocate for regime change and you think the war finders, my question two is the complete opposite. How far because you advocate for regime change and you think the war finders and correctly should continue and you expect it to continue after the midterms. But how far do you show hope so? So how far do you think Trump should go in this? Well, I hope as far as it's necessary to bring about regime change, it can be done rationally and reasonably

36:57and without too much cost in the United States. Certainly economic sanctions and trying to destroy the economy and the currency are the right thing. I think targeted strikes of the kind that we've seen is the right thing. Now, I don't approve of a ground invasion of Iran. I don't approve of other steps that would cost American blood and treasure. But I do believe that everything that can be done reasonably to help the people of Iran bring about regime change because you may argue that 20%, 30% disarray the figure of 10% of our opposed to the IOTO, a commanding, but certainly a majority of our Iranians would be incredibly pleased. Iranians would love it. The Iraqis would love it. The Saudis would love it. The Emirates would love it. And the world would love it. It would be the greatest accomplishment that we've had since the end of the Second World War,

37:58if we can do it. You mind if I lead off? Go ahead. I hope you got a flavor for it, ladies and gentlemen, but he was just real evasive. I want regime change here and I just want the America to use whatever resources, not too much, of course, but that's for the generals and the politicians to decide. But I want it done. We're not there yet. We have plenty of tools, but not actually committing troops to boots on the ground. That would be crazy. And yet his opening salvo, what was the great sin of 1935? It's that France and England didn't put boots on the ground and invade Germany. You use those words. So I don't believe you, Mr. Dershwitz. I think you want everything you can possibly get into to accomplish this goal of yours, which happens to me or the goals of the Netanyahu government. And I think there's a reason that the moderator couldn't pin you down and have you set a firm line where you go, oh, okay, well, I wouldn't make it cost this much or it costs this many lives.

39:01I just don't believe you. Yeah, it would have been risky because if it didn't quite work, it would have been weird and we didn't confuse people, but it would have been funny if Dave the next time he had the mic flipped it and just said, Mr. Dershwitz, I'm surprised. People like you, that's exactly what happened in 1935. They, yeah, they were applying sanctions. They were saying, hey, you owe us reparations. They were applying, you know, they, but to commit to boots on the ground, no, I mean, they just gone through the horrors of the first world war and they weren't willing to do that. And that's why Hitler was able to do what he did because they weren't willing to actually invade with troops. And so you, sir, are the reason, you know, he could have done that, but I think that would have just, you know, it would have been clever, but I don't think it would have been effective. Yeah, okay, you're right. So well, we can say to our audiences that they would have got. That's right. They would have gotten it. Okay, so I mean, yeah, he's set a bunch of stuff there. You nail, I think the most important thing is that, I mean, it's a bit, yeah, I would like universal healthcare as long as it's done rationally

40:02and cost effectively. And I'm not talking about, you know, multi-billion dollar deficits or something like that. I'm just talking about, let's give everybody healthcare, but do it in a affordable way that doesn't make other things more expensive. That's what everybody would be for that. Really, I mean, who would be against that? That's what I'm talking about. Now, you're saying right now, we've been trying to do that for decades and healthcare costs are through the roof, but that's because they're not doing it the way I want them to do it. I don't support what's going on. I don't support Obamacare. I don't support Medicare. What I'm talking about is paying for everyone's healthcare in a way that doesn't drive up prices. That's what I'm talking about. Like that's what he just did. What the hell is that? You're exactly right. And it's funny when Dave was talking about, you know, doing a post mortem on this debate on his show and he brought that up. He said, yeah, I guess, like I said, there's. And I agree, like I do support regime change in Iran. If it's just confined to Alan Irsch Schwitzer's head and it doesn't, like, we're not talking about what's actually happening on the ground. Yeah, sure, I I find with that regime change, but what's actually happening in

41:05would actually happen if we escalated not for that. Yeah. Also, his throwaway line there that if we had regime change over there, that would be the greatest thing that happens since the Second World War. You mean like more than the fall of the Soviet Union? Apparently. What? And again, for him, I think he was like, yeah, because the second world war was about the Holocaust and Iran is about the threat to Israel. What else is there on planet Earth besides those two things? What are we talking about? It's not like he only has one concern, but you know, you're an economist. Ordinal ranking preferences. There's one that's like way above. Number one is way above numbers, two, three, four, five, and six. The rest of the democratic platforms say, but that's foreshadowing. Anything more to say about that clip or show we... I think we got to keep plowing through that. I think you're right. So yeah. What do I have to say about this one? It's just more of Alan Dershwood's basically saying, look over there, whoever I say, because

42:08every regime is hitlarian because I say so. But I think the ultimate goal has to be that we cannot allow in Iran to dictate the terms. If they're going to... If we do this, they're going to do that. They're going to take over this. They're going to take over that. We cannot allow them to be in control. They are a country of 90 million people. Yes, but they are a country with no economy whatsoever and no military whatsoever. Yeah, they're using drones and they've done it very effectively and very capably. But we cannot lose this war to a country that is trying to control and devastate the entire Middle East and destroy one of our most important allies. And if they did that, ultimately try to destroy us as well. No, we can't be defeated. We can't just back away and say, we made a mistake. We did not make their mistake. We have encountered difficulties that we did not anticipate that happens in every single

43:09war. If we had missed a Smith around in 1943, he would have been saying we made terrible mistakes in Germany. We shouldn't have D-Day. We shouldn't have the Battle of the Bulge. We shouldn't be killing civilians. That's not the American way. I understood. Dave. I'm up yet. Had me around for the last 25 years, we wouldn't have fought the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, and we wouldn't have destroyed Gaza and we wouldn't have fought this war in Iran. So you just saved millions of people and trillions of dollars in this century. But yes, I guess if you pretend I was alive at a time when I wasn't alive and you make up a policy that I would have had at that time, you could have me responsible for the second world war. That was a nice mic drop. Ta-da. Yeah. And then he went on. I mean, it only ramped. That was the opening salvo. Then it was great. I just, yeah, so I grabbed that folks because I knew Adam and I were going to be focusing on Dershowitz and picking him apart. But I just wanted to make sure we showed you there. When I say unlike like the Douglas Murray ones where I think Dave just kind of stepped

44:10back and let them implode on this one, he just like, oh, right. Yeah. Because if you weren't seeing the video folks, I mean, Dave did a thing there too where he's like got his arm going and he really just sold that like that. The notes I jotted to myself folks when I was taking notes and they said, it's not just said Heckler. Exactly. Exactly. And Dave has to be able to if someone in the crowd starts heckling him, shut that guy down right away. And that's what he just did right there. Is like, are you kidding me? Yeah, it's sad. But also it wasn't just mere rhetoric. But he just filed it like how quickly he rattled off all those countries. I mean, you and I Adam, if we had two minutes to think about it, could have come up with that. But on the fly, with the research, you know, being level with such a ridiculous charge, you know, I wouldn't be able to do it like that. It's that extra gear I was talking about earlier. Dave didn't know that the Dershawks was going to say that and frame it that way. But he had him in there to do to think about it. And then the passing shot was just a laser. And I also don't want us to sleep on the childish rant.

45:11I don't know, Dershawks was just going, we can't let Iran control the states. We can't let this happen. Completely overlooking the facts, you know, the asymmetry and warfare between the cheap drones and the expensive missiles and group out of missiles. And we're getting our, we cannot enforce these anything that that that Dershawks wants us to do. He's not considered, he's not thinking about the cost. He's just like a scrimming, petulant child. I want the regime change. Do it, do it, do it. I do not care about the details. It's pathetic. And also it almost seemed like a parody where they're like, yes, yes, they do have 90 million. Yes, they're using, yes, we made mistakes. We didn't anticipate. Like what, closing the straight, like that's every working, we're talking about everyone. They didn't think that we're going to hit the bait nearby bases. What? So anyway, yeah, but. My goodness. All right, well, this next one's a doozy. The lead in here is Dave had accused Dershawks and people that are just promoting this war

46:14to the exclusion of all of the concerns of having something like disproportionate loyalty. And so Dershawks jumped on that. That's a anti-smetic trope out there. You thought addressing the claims really. And I think Dave followed up by saying, you know, what you're doing is essentially what's the term of fifth column or something. And that annoyed him too. So yeah, the following happens. And there's a break in here. These are two clips mashed together. It's noticeable. This is the season for standing up for the Jewish people, not only in Israel, but in the United States. And so I am prioritizing my remaining years of life to what I think is the greatest civil rights and civil liberties threat to America today and to the world today. And that is growing anti-Semitism disguised as anti-Semitism by calling people disproportionately

47:15loyal to a foreign country and accusing them of a fifth column. So you know, we're at it. I'm going to devote my life to defeating people like Mr. Smith when he makes accusations of dual loyalty, disproportionate loyalty or fifth column. I have to say it again as you are. I am as good an American as anybody who signed the Declaration of Independence. My family has been here now for more than half of the Americans. We came over in 1889. I think my family has served honorably in the military and the idea that you would call somebody like me disproportionately loyal because I made a decision to change parties based on a multiplicity of factors including it's a task. And David David David David the reason of us. All right, here's just a couple minutes later. But I would also just point out that anybody here I would challenge you to go watch the episode of Pierce Morgan.

48:15It was Alan Dershwitz and Joe Kent. It's the first question Pierce asks Alan Dershwitz at the time. He didn't say it was a multitude of reasons. He said it was over the Israel issue and explain the whole time how that issue was so important. And even though he agree, he would if he could check being a domestic Democrat and a foreign policy Republican, he would, but you only have one option. And so he had to pick based on what the most important thing is and anyone can go watch it for themselves. And even if he wants to say there was a multitude of things that I'm not done, sir, you were just smearing me. I'm not done. And even if he wants to say there were a multitude of reasons in there, the point is still that support for a foreign nation is right up there with your absolute top positions. You set it yourself at your own mouth and anybody can go watch it. Okay, so everyone understood that. I don't think Adam and I need to comment on that. So we went to look it up and I was a little bit nervous. I have to admit it because I thought suppose Dave misremembered and he does say, yeah, there are four things and like this woke stuff or, you know, I was open that maybe Dershowitz,

49:16you know, one that is going to win this point, we go look it up and spoiler alert. Let's, you know, do you want to say anything before we play the clip? I'll just say Dave said anybody can go and look at the clip and Alan Dershowitz, I don't have to hear it. But he said, please do. Please do. I think we both participants said that we should go look at the clip. See if Dave was mischaracterizing what Dershowitz said to Pierce Morgan. Let's see. All of this was too much for legal scholar on longtime Democrat Alan Dershowitz. He announced his week that he's registering as a Republican for the first time in his life, calling Democrats the most anti-Israel party in the history of the United States. He may find that the Republicans are asking themselves many of the same questions. So Kent, a Gold Star husband and retiregreen beret, resigned as director of the National Counterterrorism Center over Israel's influence on the Iran War and both Alan Dershowitz and Joe Kent joined me now. Welcome to both of you. I don't know. I'd never thought I'd have the potential to introduce you as a Republican, but here we are.

50:18Why do you feel so strongly about this that you have announced your Democratic face and gone to the other side? Well, the polls show that the vast majority of Democrats of every age pose Israel. They have elected a Congresswoman from New Jersey who was virulently anti-Israel. They may be nominating a Senate candidate from Michigan who campaigns with a neo-Nazi, who basically is a Hitler supporter. And as you say, even Romanuels now said that the Democrats should stop and the United States government should reorganize its relationship with Israel and treat it like any other ally and light of what's going on on university campuses, the uptick of anti-Semitism around the world. I just can't be associated with a political party that has become part of the anti-Israel anti-Jewish trend around the world and in the United States.

51:21So, although I support many of the Democratic domestic policies, I will vote and work hard to make sure that the Republicans maintain control over the House, the Senate and the presidency, to avoid the United States from moving the way most many European countries have moved away from Israel, away from support for Western values and in support for a radical left-wing values. I could have registered as a Republican with a little asterisk saying I'm basically a foreign policy Republican. I'm still a domestic Democrat. I would do that, but that choice is not available to me. And so, consistent with my values, I want to quote Ronald Reagan. I haven't left the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has left me and I believe is quickly leaving America. And that's why I am going to work against the Democratic Party, particularly at a time when anti-Semitism and anti-Israelism is increasing around the world.

52:23You mentioned, by the way, that so many Americans are pro-Palestinian. Let's be very clear. Very few people really are pro-Palestinian. They're anti-Israel. If they were pro-Palestinian, they would also be supporting the Kurds, the Uggers. They would be supporting the Sudanese. They would be supporting the Ukrainians. You don't have demonstrations on university campuses in favor of these other oppressed groups. Only for the Palestinians, not because of who they are, but because who allegedly oppresses them, namely the nation-state of the Jewish people. So it's another manifestation of the increasing worldwide anti-Semitism. And I'm going to fight against that. It's amazing that they've just had that in his back pocket and it's like word for word, exactly the way they've described it. I would say it's even stronger. You're right. That was more of a slam-dung and I mean, I almost couldn't believe how over the top durshowitz was where he, not only folks that he say, like list the reason was the anti-Semitism,

53:24so he even clarified to say, if I could still be a Democrat and all the other domestic issues, but just not on the foreign policy ones, I would. So it's not that it, it, it, it, re-listing to it here again, like, like, third time I've listed it. There was in the middle there what he was talking about why he wants to elect Republicans in the House Senate and White House for the foreign policy because we don't want to go the way of European nations. He had like literally like two or three words about in left-wing values or something like something like that that I suppose you could say, you know, because in general, I think older people, you know, they think like, geez, boys going in girls bathrooms, that's kind of weird, you know what I mean? Like I think just older generation kind of doesn't get that stuff. And so they might think some of the stuff that the Democrats got into in recent decades, kind of nutty. But again, he, you know, with Dave, he was talking about I civil rights activists for transgender and that, you know, and they're, if you really strain, there was like two or three words, but again, he linked it to foreign policy, not even domestic stuff.

54:26And he explicitly said I would be a Democrat on domestic stuff. And, you know, how many times folks there it was a long clip, but I wanted to play the full thing just to make sure you don't think we're leaving anything out where he said, not having said that, you know, I think maybe taxing billionaires might be, you know, whatever. No, he didn't say any of that. It was clear cuts, slam dunk point Smith follow assessed on Dershowitz. Yeah, point Smith. And then Dershowitz turns around and kicks a goal and it was on ball and it was on goal. So two points. It's great that we got to play those back to back. It shows, he's 88, but he's still as in command of a lot of his faculties. He lays out these arguments. He's going to say him. It's not going to be interrupted. It's going to be pow pow pow argument argument argument. But maybe a sign that he's missing a step in leaving himself open for meta attacks or maybe it's just that it doesn't understand the new media or maybe it's just the Davis, just this clever and Dershowitz didn't see it coming.

55:27But what he was trying to do on Pierce Morgan show is say to the Democrats of power, I'm Alan Dershowitz and I am an important person and I'm not alone. And since you are not catering to me on this Israel issue, you're going to lose me. Think about all the votes that I can command and they're not going to you anywhere. They're going to Republicans because my favorite issue, the only one that will make me switch parties is the Israel issue. And then I guess you just wasn't thinking that now it's perfectly anybody can say, well, yeah, you have what do you say divided loyalties or disproportionate loyalties you went on and said exactly that. You live in the United States and you have an opinion about what the domestic policies are going to be and you favor the Democrat ones always have for 40 years or whatever, 50 years. But you're going to switch that out of the dime because your most important priority is Israel. And we can prove that because he's not switching parties over the treatment of the Ukrainians or the U.S.

56:27Or that. Right. Yeah, I thought that was that was blistering. So we have some more stuff. I don't know how you want to organize it. It's in the service of Dave Smith and Alan Dersherwoods went back and forth about each other because actually, can we stop just for a second? Yeah, I don't want to just move on as if I know what he's talking about there. In other words, I think it is true that yeah, the reason the Palestinians, the play of the Palestinians got so inflamed, it does have to do with that some people don't like Israel. Sure. And so there's that. But it also like it's also because they're getting funded. Like, you know, if the U.S. were sending billions of dollars and aid to Putin so he could invade Ukraine, more people would probably be against that. You know, that would be a bigger deal or something, you know. So there's that element.

57:27Again, with all this stuff, just like, you know, yeah, there are some genuine people, you know, anti-Semitic people who don't like Jews per se. And yeah, of course, they're harping on this stuff, perhaps cynically or perhaps they really do oppose the Israeli government's bombing of toddlers. But that's what fuels their, you know, generalizations about a certain type of people. But still that, okay, that doesn't mean that. So therefore, you're not allowed to criticize that stuff. You know what I mean? So it's, again, like it's worth, we keep saying these common sense points that it's not that Wadursh, which is saying is nutty in the sense of that he's observing certain things that aren't true at all, but that doesn't justify what his position is. Yeah. And if he was pointing to actual racist people and saying, yes, see those people, they're not serious about the oppressed group and the war. They just hate Jews. But he's taking that broad brush and plopling it to Dave Smith. And anybody who opposes the Iran war or funding Israel, and it's, I mean, it's a point of

58:31contention to things we're going to play. Dave Smith said, you know, what are you doing? We have these prominent Jewish people saying the point is the unseeding of Thomas Massey from Kentucky Congressional District 4 and all these, we're going to play and show some screenclaps, a bunch of prominent Jewish people saying, yeah, that was, you're darn right. We influenced politics this way with our quote Jewish money. They said that, not, not me, not Dave. And Dershwood thinks, yeah, I'll just let that pass. But if anybody else points to that influence and says it in a negative way, well, no, you can't say that. That's anti-Semitic. You literally can't have any other reason for opposing what's going on other than you just hate Jews. And that's not effective. It's going to judo flip against you in a very horrible way. And it's a dirty trick. I noticed you said judo flip. That's kind of an interesting choice. Yeah, you couldn't see how it was spelling it in my mind.

59:33Yeah. It would have been hilarious. Like a Jewish donut, maybe? I don't know. So, yeah, we've got some clips and some screenshots of some tweets. Do you have a preference? I said to you, Bob, I'd grab them if you read them. Okay. All right. Let's start with Matt Brooks. I guess he's just again, just to make sure because we've been saying a lot of stuff. Folks, the context here is we can't keep playing all the clips because this would take two hours. But a running theme in the second half of this debate was Dershiew, which just beside himself about how dare you suggest that Jewish people have any sort of undue influence in US politics or that the American government has somehow been subverted in serving the interest of the Israeli government. How dare you, sir? Say that and David said, we're talking about, you know, prominent Jewish people brag about that all the time about the influence that their money, like their term, has on US politics. What are you talking about? How come it's okay for them to say it? But when they're proud of it and think it's great and show their influence, but if critics

1:00:33point out these X and think all of a sudden it's an anti-Semitic trope and just, you know, crazy tinfoil hat stuff. So that's what the argument they were having. And so here we just want to bolster days position by giving some examples. Yeah, here's one. It's Matt Brooks. So I guess is the CEO of something called the Republican Jewish coalition. I think I didn't know existed until recently. Yep. So there he's so Marjorie Taylor Green. Mal read that way. Tweeted out. Trump's endorsed candidate against Thomas Massey is being funded by APEC and Democrats. 120 out of the 141 max donors, $3500 previously donated to Democrats. Galrain is a foreign aunt, planted to support the deep state in Israel, not to do that. And so this guy Matt Brooks retweeted her and said, uh, Marjorie Taylor Green allowed me to note that RJC is proudly spending $3 million from our superpec to defeat Thomas Massey and elect the real Donald Trump endorsed patriot Ed Galrain.

1:01:35All right. So that makes the point, but it's still pretty mild. Here's Matt Brooks again, CEO of the RJC. RJC is what Republican, uh, Republican Jewish coalition. Okay. Uh, I was going to make you say it because I didn't just in case it was awful. Okay. So it was like the January, you know, cathedral or something. Uh, okay. So this one guy, Quiver, quantitative says just in the Republican Jewish coalition victory fund just filed another $470,000 of spending against Thomas Massey. There's now been more than $20 million of outside spending in this race. So again, this Matt Brooks guy retweets that and suspect checked true. RJC is over 4.5 million in to beat Thomas Massey to exclamation points. Let's go. Okay. Yeah. I think that's a demonstration. And again, this guy Matt Brooks has a blue check mark. I don't think this is Nick Fuentes sock account. I think this is like earnest and this guy is saying, yeah, you're darn tootin.

1:02:38We have this kind of money. Why are you opposing us? Yep. I think that's a solid guess. All right. And this one is from, I guess the RJC account itself. I don't know who runs it. Yep. So this is some guy Alex Eisenstadt says new pro Israel GOP donors are unloading on Thomas Massey. And he says RJC says it will engage APEC expected to jump in Adelson, singer, Paulson, all pouring money in dot, dot, dot. The RJC official Twitter account retweets that and says like POTUS Donald Trump, RJC is committed to the defeat of Thomas Massey. Yep. Hang on a second. My stream merit is angry with me. All right. And here's one straight from APEC. I have no idea what those letters stand for, but you know APEC. Hang on.

1:03:39I got to pull this up. Okay. So some guys Steve Kormackie says NBC projects that Ed Gellrin will defeat Rep Thomas Massey in the KY4 GOP primary and the APEC Twitter account retweets that and says congratulations to us Navy SEAL Ed Gellrin for defeating anti Israel incumbent Thomas Massey. Pro Israel Americans are proud to bat candidates who support a strong US Israel alliance. Oh US Israel alliance. What is that? It's US I L. You sold but that okay. The font is small in my screen folks. Okay. I'm just guessing. I just assume that's what it means. US Israel Alliance and help defeat those who work to undermine it. Being pro Israel is good policy and good politics. Okay. All right. And then a last one from APEC.

1:04:39Says Ed Gellrin's victory in Kentucky and Clay Follars win in Georgia ensures two outspoken pro Israel voices are positioned to fill seeds previously held by outspoken detractors Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yep. And then there's a couple of posts with video elements on X that are even more descriptive of the point. Have a preference which one comes first? The the Massey one because I think the ending of Potter it says. That's not the Potter's one. No I'm saying ending like I'm ending with the Massey one first. No I see what you mean. Got a you got to think two steps ahead. Got to each of you meet and vegetables for your dessert. All right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Over the past few months. Actually you want to read the what Massey is saying first.

1:05:41Maybe I will. Yeah. It's just I can't make it. So the video we're about to play is from somebody named Chris Minahan. Over the past few months the RJC spent more than five million dollars to defeat Thomas Massey. When someone refuses to stand with the Jewish state when it matters most there has to be consequences. And then Thomas Massey is quote tweeting that saying Matt Brooks bragging that the Republican Jewish coalition spent millions to buy a congressional seat in Kentucky. But if you observe the same thing your anti-Semitic. So to be clear I think it's Matt Brooks is the guy in the video. I think he's the one speaking. Yeah. Over the past few months the RJC spent more than five million dollars to defeat Thomas Massey. And let me say very clearly tonight that was a fight worth having and a victory worth

1:06:42celebrating. And someone repeatedly undermined support for Israel. Traffic and isolationism at a moment of global danger and refuses to stand with the Jewish state when it matters most there has to be consequences. Over the past. Did he say traffic with isolationism? Yes. That's a weird conflation of words. Yeah. Traffic. I said dirty isolationism. How dare you? It's like he rented out an underage. The Constitution. Right. Exactly. All right. And there's one more and we're ending with a humdinger. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. So this is a quote from or a tweet from Glenn Greenwald.

1:07:47He's quote tweeting. I guess the same guy. Chris Minahan. John Pothor celebrates the role that quote Jewish money played in defeating representative Thomas Massey quote we have to use what means there are at our disposal and that is Jewish money. This is an existential issue for Jews. And Glenn Greenwald says about this. It's always like this. Israel loyalists explicitly threaten US politicians with destruction if they don't support Israel because as Norm Pothor's and Neppo baby says here, there's an enormous amount of Jewish money in politics. Think it is a good thing if Massey and the people like him and others believe that if you cross, if you cross the line into anti-Semitism, Jews are going to use the power that we have openly to go for you because what other recourse is there?

1:08:52Are we just going to sit here and take it beg for scraps? I hope that nice people in our nice to us, the Democratic Party is going explicitly anti-Semitic. We can see it happening. People are getting benefits as Seth says for being anti-Semites. That seems to be part of an appeal in primaries to the left and the party. We have to use what means there are at our disposal. And in my view, I'm going to put it that is Jewish money. There is an enormous amount of Jewish money in politics by which I mean Jewish donors wildly disproportionate, not only charitably, but politically. When I say charitably, I mean, nobody really knows the numbers. Jews make up 2% of the population according to some studies. Jews make up 20% of the charitable contributions made in the United States annually. It is a tenfold thing about that.

1:09:54Think about the disproportion of that. And in politics, it's pretty close also. And if that money isn't used, what, why do people give money because they want to influence elections to get people elected who reflect their views? Well, this is an existential issue for Jews. And the Jews who explicitly give money because they want to make it clear to anti-Semitic candidates that they are going to have to go through a buzz saw and that they are not going to simply waltz in and be, you know, be, if they are treated with kid gloves by the New York Times, we are double time going to do what we can to expose who they are, to find out what we can find out about them that will harm them, and that we will do what we can to prevent them from taking office. What other choice does American Jewry have? So when Dave says, you know, Alan Dershowitz, it might be some Jewish people out there saying

1:10:55things like this guy, like Ben Shapiro, like Mark Lovane. It might be, there might be some Jewish hatred being raised up in the country because of things like this. And when that's mentioned Alan Dershowitz, he shrieks and says, you can't say that. I mean, Jews are responsible for anti-Semiticism, that's another trope. I don't think that's a rational response. I don't think it's honest. And I think Dave makes this point well. What's interesting too with all of them is they weren't just saying, you know, oh Thomas Massey opposes, you know, an aggressive US foreign policy and misguided as he may be, you know, that's just unacceptable to us because that means in practice that Israel is going to wither on the vine and look at, you know, they're in the crosshairs right now, some tough neighbor, which, you know, I would disagree with that, but okay, fair enough. But just say, no, we have to let anti-Semitic candidates like Thomas Massey know. I don't know enough about it. Like, you know, it's wears in some other areas.

1:11:57Like I know the bulls eyes so well, like I could say, this is what they have in my hair. I don't even know. I know that like he did some stuff like, oh yeah, in his concession speech that I called up, you know, my opponent, I tried to calm up, but he was busy. I think found the phone to telev. He had some joke like that. But again, it's a bit weird to say, yeah, Massey keeps thinking all the Jews are out to get him and to punish him for that, we Jews need to go get him. You see what I mean? Like, there's something weird about that. Not a very compelling argument. And you know, when Massey made that speech, obviously shots had been fired back and forth for months. But when I first heard people screaming into microphones and television cameras that we got to get rid of Thomas Massey because he is an anti-Semite. It's because he didn't vote for a spending package, you know, didn't think that we should be funding this war, you know, in the Middle East. Oh, I know what it was or one of the things is when he was on Tucker Carlson show a while ago, he said everybody has a handler. Yeah. That's right.

1:12:57That's what it was. Which again, it's kind of just ironic. We got a lot of people like him know we have a lot of money. We learned like 10 to 1 disproportionately influential in the political, you know, politics with our money. And so how dare you suggest that we influence politics? We're going to make you get primary. Like what? Yeah. If you have a group of people accusing you of being able to control the weather, it's a real bad idea to call up a tornado and like any bolstice, smite them with. Don't prove their point in your anger. I'm like a catch 22. People are trying to kill me. Like, well, not you specifically. So yeah, I only had one other thing. Alan Dershwitz is a good lawyer and he's kind of sneaky. This is a 90 minute zero hedge debate. But the one thing Dave wanted when he was, you know, asking for conditions, he didn't care about anything else. He just wanted time. He wanted to think we had at least two hours long.

1:13:59You know, whatever matter you want, I don't care about the form, whatever. But it has to be two hours long because Dave wants to take you into the deep water and the later streets and, you know, he thinks he's going to win the more time we have. And so immediately Alan Dershwitz said it can only be 90 minutes because my voice, I've got a, I don't know, my voice hurts or something. And then we, we witnessed it a little bit in the clips we played, but he was interrupting all the time and when he was speaking, he was doing these run on sentences and just throwing in details. He was trying to run out the clock. I think he knew he was coming in with a pretty weak argument. It's always 1935. Even he must know that's a little bit weak and he's not going to debate the specifics of the Iran War that you're here to debate. I think he was doing everything he could to use the rules and even bend the rules a little bit to try and give him an advantage and like kudos to you. I don't blame you for trying it, but I did notice it. Yeah.

1:14:59And I mean, I suppose it's possible to like with a lot of that stuff, people who are just, they're not there to find the truth. They're there to win. We use it every text is just like I was surprised by how weak Douglas Murray was. I have seen him in other settings where I thought he was a really sharp guy and whatever. And I'm a sucker for British accent. By the way, how appears Morgan said, how did he say green beret? Yeah, he's bearer, bearer green better. It's a bearer. So anyway, I was like, ah, yeah, I like the British accent too. I'm a sucker for that stuff. And so, but I really do think it was that no, when I have seen Douglas Murray like dunking on whatever trans activists or something like that, he crushes them. Yes, the virtue of being right. That helps. Yeah. I guess when he's, you know, when he's totally wrong, he just goes in with that and this does emotional, you know, he has left. Yeah. When he's not, when it doesn't have the facts on the side and right and logic and reason,

1:16:01he says, what you've never even been. Right. So I guess that's, that's the issue. It's anything with Dershowitz is, you know, he's obviously a smart guy and intelligent with it. Clearly. Yeah, maybe I was surprised by how ludicrous he was in this exchange, but it might be be, no, because he knew I got nothing here. I just got a, like you say, we've back and forth and, yes, Iran, Iran funded his, but they put them up to it. The biggest sound like we double dog, dare you to blow up those marines. You know, I was like, okay, we can't back down now. We'll look like babies. So it would be weird to be in a jury box and have that guy bobbing at you. You know, what I would do. Bob and weave myself. Um, what I was going to say though, too, is perhaps, you know, he's good at like, you know, jury selection and stuff. And maybe he's good. He's good at convincing 12 jurors to a quit. He makes arguments in a passionate way. I mean, I mean, I've seen a little bit of his, his work back in the day. He takes always took the most high profile cases he could get and, uh, so you'd see him

1:17:02on the TV. Well, that's something I wanted to say. And to his cry, I don't think Dave was saying like, oh, look at this sleazy defense lawyer or something, the ambulance chaser or I'll be there around. No, he wasn't saying it. It was just, you know, like I said, dursh, it's, like you said, brought up. So I actually think in general, that's like a virtue of a free society. Sure. I like defense law to take on, you know, reprehensible. Like I always want to make sure does the guy have a good lawyer or something like even if it's, you know, what serial killer or something like I want. Let's make sure we got the right guy for one thing, but also, you know, make sure, you know, the police didn't cut any corners and blah, blah, blah. I agree. That's what we, that's what a just society does. But then again, by the same token, right, that's why it was so reprehensible to him. You're defending Iran. Exactly. Yeah. If we're going to take really bend over backwards, let's make sure we don't put the wrong guy in prison. Let's make sure if we're going to blow up a school full of little girls, we are doing the right thing. You know, let's not just brush into that, you know, and is there any other thing we could

1:18:04have done? Let's have good procedures in place. Like, did you see, I know I'm going off on a tangent here. When Thomas Massey was on Dave's show, it was, I think it was the day this debate occurred. I think it was earlier that day that he and Massey, he interviewed Massey on part of the problem. Um, and Massey, among other things, like they were talking about the Epstein stuff, but he was saying kind of almost matter of fact, in the beginning, do you know that technically, they only have, um, no, shoot, what is it? I forget how much the club, I think it's 90 days for, um, yeah, that's what it is for the, the emergency actions and foreign policy that they can do. And since Congress has not gone along with this Iran engagement, like technically, the authorization they're using only gives them a 90 day window. And so he's saying they technically what they did officially ended the war and started with the MOU was. Yeah. That was the goal. That war ended and now we started a new war. And so that's why the 90 day clock restart. And he said they even caught themselves when they were listing the total casualties that

1:19:06they adjusted that because they can't combine the two because that makes it look like it's one long engagement. And no, we don't have the authorization to do that. Take a page out of Scott Horton's book. This is Iran War 2026 version 4.0. I have a question. Um, most of Alan Dershowitz's arguments were terrible, but there was one that I thought it was at least interesting. Um, I think the moderator again showed a picture of guys that just blown a bit. And he says, you know, don't you think Alan that, you know, people see images like this. And maybe that's why they're opposed to this war. Maybe it's that anti-Semitism. What do you have to say? And Dershowitz had a quick response. He says, yeah, I'm sure people do think that. But, you know, if they saw pictures of, you know, in real time, a fire bombing dressed in in Tokyo and all the horrible things that the right and virtuous side did in World War II, you know, the, the squeamish would have screamed then too. The cussed earner we have to have the courage of our convictions and war as hell.

1:20:06So what are you going to do? I thought that was at least an interesting argument. Right. So me as a pacifist, I would say, yeah, you're exactly right. And earlier the clip we did play, I thought it was kind of a wrong thing. People like Dave were on 1943. You say, ooh, we can't, you know, be, be killing civilians, but that's not America. It's like the country I know and love. We do. We kiss civilians all the time. We talking about. Yeah, I'm with you and like the Vietnam War is instructive. You know, it was when the television cameras got over that the American public were like, oh, we don't want to do this. And yeah, war is bad and we shouldn't go into it for serious reasons. And so, yeah, more information, the better. I don't want my war hidden. I want every citizen ever reason to oppose bad wars. Yeah, I mean, and I'll just for the sake of completeness, I mean, it would be one thing if war, hawkery worked. I just don't think it does. I mean, you know, I mean, there's also, I think the principle of reasons, whatever, but

1:21:09I mean, at least it would be defensible, but it's, it's not like, yeah, this one time the Jews are going to roll their sleeves up and go do some aggressive things and then they'll nip that in a bud. Like no, this is a whole string of things. And like why do you think, like you said, like the war that, you know, the Gossens launched on October 7th. No, I think they would argue this didn't happen in a vacuum. That there was stuff that we're kind of responding to. Yeah. And so of course, hat fields in my coins all the way down. Well, this was great Bob. I'm glad you twisted my arm and said we have to do this. Your clip choices were excellent. Your analysis was on point, good sir. All right. Do you have anything you want to say to the good folks who are listening to you? Ah, I guess just go check me out at Twitter if you're not following me there at Bob River, the Econ. Very, very good. I'll ask people to go to hamonnature.com, h-a-m-a-n, nature.com.

1:22:10Go sign up for my sub-stack. I write articles. I'm on Twitter too, but I pay all in comparison to the great Bob Arino. Thanks again, Bob. I'm going to say goodbye to the nice people. So long folks. You've just experienced another episode of the Bob Murphy Show. The podcast promoting free markets, free minds and grateful souls. For more information and to subscribe to this podcast, visit BobMurphyShow.com.