BONUS: Cancer, Estrogen and Detox: What Happens After Your Body Uses Estrogen

0:00What we're talking about is turning on an enzyme. An enzyme is able to work on reactive oxygen species except the enzyme is turning over 10,000 per second. And then because you're turning on 50, those are all designed for all different kinds of antioxidant activity. They'll block reactive nitrogen species. Every single one, it's the way your body fights free radicals. And so by turning all of them on, you're doing what everybody thought they were doing in the 80s and 90s by taking an antioxidant. You're cooling down a flame, you know, that is on fire, but it actually does it because we all know we're swimming in toxic world. It's just everywhere. I just want to say thank you. The fact that you're here means that you have trusted me with something so valuable these days, your time. I do not take that lightly at all. So if you're listening because you're exhausted, you're gaining weight for no reason, losing

1:00your hair, getting really frustrated, or you've been told that everything looks normal, when you know deep down something isn't right, I want you to know that I see you. I've been where you are. And that's exactly why I created this podcast. My mission is super simple. To give you the information, the hope, and the tools that I wish someone had given me years ago. So my goal is you get to stop wondering what's wrong with your body and finally start getting your life back. So if these episodes have helped you at all, would you do me one small favor? Take it just a few seconds to follow the show, the little button in the upper corner, and then leave a review. Every follow and every review helps this podcast reach another person who's lying there awake at night wondering why they don't even recognize themselves anymore when they look in the mirror. Wondering what's happened to this amazing, energized, full of life person they used to be? You're helping them. And not only that, when you follow the show, you'll be notified about the hottest episodes

2:05everyone is listening to and everyone's downloading, along with any bonus episodes I drop throughout the month. Think of it as your insider pass. So thank you for letting me be part of your journey, and thank you for your time. Now let's get into today's episode. If you're over 40, which many of you are and managing a thyroid or hormone issue, you know this feeling. You're doing everything right, but your energy is low, your strength might be slipping at the gym. The scale definitely won't move. And you hit just this wall, you just can't push through. So that was me. What finally changed wasn't another energy drink. It was starting essential amino acids. So here's the simple version. These are nine building blocks that your body can't make on its own. They're what protein breaks down into, except your body absorbs them almost instantly. So no heavy digestion required.

3:08They go straight to work, feeding your muscle, building your muscles, supporting your metabolism. And that's what we all need. So since I started taking them every day, sometimes two, three times a day, I've noticed better energy, faster recovery, muscle building. Yes, at the age of 52, alongside my hormones, way more consistency in my workouts. And I genuinely feel leaner and stronger. I really do. I have more muscle now than I had in my 20s when I was competing in bodybuilding, in my competitions. More muscle now, because I'm feeding it the right way. So even on rest days, especially when I'm eating maybe a little bit less, I still take them to stay on track. The brand I choose and have been using now for four years is Keon. They're a sugar free, non-GMO, vegan, easy to digest, and they taste amazing.

4:11That's why I put them in my water all day long. So if you're trying to lose fat without losing muscle, if you're on a GLP, you better, you had better be taking these every single day. So you want to go to getkeon.com forward slash thyroid for 20% off. That's g-e-t-k-i-o-n dot com forward slash T-h-y-r-o-i-d forward slash thyroid. For 20% off, get the mango, get the berry. They're just all good. They're all good. You will love it. So today's conversation is just incredibly personal for me. Many of you know I was diagnosed last year with estrogen receptor positive uterine cancer ahead of his directomy. And from that point on, I really started looking at estrogen differently.

5:12This woman are told whether their estrogen is higher or low. You know, when we test you, we test your estradiol, we're looking to see, is it optimal or is it too low? But estrogen doesn't simply disappear after your body uses it. It has to be broken down. It has to be neutralized. It has to be eliminated. And depending on how your body does that, estrogen can be processed through pathways that are either more protective or pathways that are more reactive. They produce more reactive metabolites. So my own testing has shown that I tend to push my estrogen toward the 408 and the 16 OH pathways. I see this on a Dutch test rather than that 208 pathway, which I would prefer, that's more protective. I also appear to struggle with some of the processes responsible for neutralizing and clearing those metabolites. On top of that, my estradiol, so we always look at estradiol and estrone on your labs with the goal of estradiol always being higher than

6:17estrone. Estrone is more growth promoting. So my estrone has always been historically higher than my estradiol. And that matters to me because my cancer was estrogen receptor positive. Recently, I mean, last three months, maybe three months. I started using a clubhouse called sulfurophane to support knees pathways. And I just received my newest blood work. And for the first time, my estrone is lower than my estradiol. Now one blood test doesn't prove exactly what caused that change, but it got my attention, right? So today, I am joined by David Roberts and molecular biologist Dr. John Gilday. Wait, did I say that right? I asked you before, I'll let you chime in and say, good, John, we're going to talk about what sulfurophane may be doing, why estrogen detox matters and then the relationship between environmental estrogens and cancer and why you need to support those detox pathways.

7:20So guys, welcome. I'm super pumped to have you on the show. Dr. John, did I say your last name properly? Perfect. Okay. Awesome. So we can dive right in. Thanks for having us. Oh, my goodness. I'm so excited for this conversation because like I just said, it really impacts me personally on a deep level. And I just got my last back a couple of days ago. I wasn't planning on timing it with our recording, but it just happened to be that way. And literally I looked at it. I was like, wow, this is a first. And I didn't start making the correlation until I knew we would be talking today. I'm like, wait a minute. So one thing that I changed in the last couple of months since my last set of labs was adding in broccoli. So I really want to break down what's in it, why these compounds help women so much. I mean, yes, they can help guys too. We can talk about that. But why they helped me? Why they helped with my estrogen clearance? So let's just dive right in. John, I want to start with you.

8:21Let's begin with something that women are rarely taught. Since estrogen has done its job in the body, where does it actually go? I always like to start off with the fact that there's two receptors. I think most people don't know that. Estrogen receptor alpha and estrogen receptor beta. And then there's a G-Couple Progyne receptor that's also estrogen responsive. So I guess that's a good place to start with is that it's complex. And then estrogen also is metabolized. So it goes down a couple of different pathways. So there's three estrogens and then three pathways. So there's a lot of metabolites. And then probably the big distinction there that at least in the cancer world is that one of those metabolites for each of those categories has the capability of doing DNA cross links, the coenolated version of estrogen. And so that can cause double-stranded breaks in DNA.

9:21And that's of course that's by definition a carcinogen. So that's probably the overview that I'm most interested in in relation to estrogen-dependent cancers. And so a lot of that has to do with inflammation and your ability to detox just in general. So inflammation obviously big part of that pathway is an F-capability. And so you can talk about that pathway and what is sulforophane due to that. There's a direct binding covalent modulation of that one of the components of that complex to turn off an F-capability. And people are really surprised how strong anti-inflammatory sulforophane is. And then the other one is this whole pathway that is sulforophane is known for is activating NRF2, which is the master control gene for antioxidant response elements. And then also for phase 2 and phase 3 detoxification. And so I would say that those two things together are the inflammatory and the detox and oxidation

10:27protection are sort of the one to punch for understanding estrogen metabolism. Okay. I want you to take everything that you just said and break it down and talk to me like I'm five. Because there's not a listener in the world that is just going to understand all of that. So we have estrogen or we make it in our bodies and then we take it. A lot of my listeners are midlife ladies that are in menopause or some of them are instill paramedicause and they're producing enough of their own estrogen. But they still might need help with these pathways. So we have the estrogen coming in or making it. And the estrogen does its thing in our body and then it has to be metabolized and excreted and eliminated. So take what you just said and kind of walk us through those pathways. And then if you can even explain what the NFKB is, like why is it important? Why do we even care about something like NFKB and why do we care about sulfur or like break it down for me?

11:28Basically, you know, just to keep it simple. So you have estrogen metabolites. Some of them are neutral. Some of them are bad. So for a vein works in all three phases of detoxification. It's the best natural phase to detox fire of any compound. And so basically it can get rid of those bad metabolites. And the reason it can is because of this enzyme that it releases and it's in RF2. So NF2 can be thought of as like if you think of like the bridge on a ship, that's the messaging center, the ship does not run without the bridge and message is going in and out of the bridge. And so to keep the bridge safe, if it's under attack, it can amount a response. If there's damage, it can repair. And so basically, NRF2 is outside of the cell. So forfein helps to get released. It travels into the nucleus, which is the command center, which is the bridge. And there it's a messenger sends a message, hey, stuff things don't

12:31wrong. It could be toxins like estrogen metabolites or it could be prooxidants. And so it can turn on the antioxidants. So what you're on alluded to is the antioxidant response. So really cool thing is self forfein is not an antioxidant. But what it does is because of NRF2, it sends a message in the nucleus, hey, turn on 200 different genes that can crank out different antioxidants. So it actually is like a master antioxidant and that it creates all these other antioxidants. And that switch stays on for 72 hours just with one dip. Now with detox, it's the same way. Basically, there's a toxin. So there's a message and NRF2 gets sent. This message gets sent to the command center of the nucleus, hey, turn on the detox pathways. And so it does. And so one caveat is that as far as the detoxification, there are three phases. A lot of detox programs ramp up phase one without ramping up phase two.

13:35And so what that does is the phase one often the toxin is changed basically to become more water soluble so that you can get out of your body. And that change actually can make it more toxic. And so if phase one is ramped up without phase two, then you can get what's called the detox. You feel crummy like you up the flu. And so the beauty of cell four thing is it slows down phase one, but it cranks phase two and phase three up so that you have a balanced detox. So I don't know if that all. No, that totally, no, no, that totally helps. Cause now whenever I have a guest on, I'm learning from my guest, because I'm always learning. I think about me and I think about our patients and everything that I've seen, you know, working with women. And so the way that you explain that was beautiful, because it makes me step back and even think about my Dutch test. I need to now do a follow up Dutch test. Now that I've seen the change on my blood labs, now I want to look more

14:36closely at those pathways because the Dutch will show us that two, that four, that 16 OH pathway, but it'll also show kind of the breakdown and where sulfation actually comes into play. And the different like phase one phase two detox and how I do well or how we do poorly or how we do well at detoxing. So what is concerning? Can you break down what is concerning about producing or pushing down that 16 OH pathway or even the 40 H pathway? Why do women need to even be concerned what their body is doing with estrogen? It's easy to talk about in longevity when you're talking about estrogen, because I think that's becoming clear that estrogen, especially in a woman is protective against basically cardiovascular disease, cancer, everything increases your myocondria. So it's good for you. In general, it's really good for you. And so it's not until you go through menopause that estrogen is going down,

15:39and utilizing estrogen is going down, that all those diseases speed up and actually surpass the rate of men getting those disease states and then ends up being at the end of menopause, you know, surpassing men in some ways. And so you have to think of estrogen as being protective. It's ramping up your myocondria. So energy is this kind of a central feature for making everything run well. You can think of toxins and even metabolites of estrogen as being a toxin and that it has this ability that's just like a carcinogen. If the carcinogen is a carcinogen because it alteres your DNA. And then when you get that DNA break, you're messing up this whole epigenetic machinery that is saying stay young. So when you distract all these pathways, I can talk about forever, but it's basically it distracts the cells from remembering that you're young. And so whenever you have a double strain of break,

16:41you speed up the forgetting of what a cell wants to be. And so I think that's a good framing for it. And so lack of nutrients does the same thing. You get genomic instability. You get double strain of breaks. You get, you know, loss of epigenetic memory. And then estrogen byproducts, the wrong ones building up will be like it, like a toxin. And so I think that's the whole picture. And then estrogen receptor alpha is in general growth promoting. So of course, when you want to repair, you want to be able to have a estrogen receptor alpha going on. And I think a lot of people don't even know that the mouse and animal models world estrogen receptor alpha stimulation and then is protective of longevity even. And so it's one of those things that you kind of will have to unlearn some stuff before you understand estrogen. And I think the whole business about inflammation as well is, is you can put it in the same vector is that your inflammatory markers are

17:42attracting immune cells that are just randomly trying to kill whatever is nearby. And those are also double standard breaks. And they're messing up machinery and things are not working as well. And it's making cells forget who they are. So they're all sort of go together, depending what level you want to go to, you know, what is oxidation, what's reduction, what's, you know, inside of cell, what's outside of cell, what's inside of mitochondria. So you really have to have all three in order for a cell to work really well. And that is oxidation working really well in your mitochondria. Outside your cell, it's usually oxidizing because you're transporting oxygen around. And then the rest of your cytoplasm is reducing. And so that's just one of those things that that's the definition of what life is. And you want to protect it and have as much energy. So if you repair systems are working, each of the enzyme systems that are going on are working optimally. So I think people don't realize how central this single one, two punch of

18:43N or F2 and NF capyb is directing so much of chronic disease. And when you get them right, you can do it by getting clean. You can do it by exercising. They're all pushing in the right direction. And so we always say, make sure you do that first before you take you first broccoli or curculee for inflammation and an air of tune induction because the behaviors and supplements work together. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I always say you can't put hormones on a dumpster fire. You can't put any supplement on a dumpster fire. If you're treating your body like a circus, then yeah, it's probably not going to work. But when you do the nutrient nutritional changes lifestyle changes with it, everything works beautifully, beautifully. I didn't queen this, but I often say that exercises, King nutrition is queen together. You have a kingdom. And then also, you know, going back to what John was talking about with oxygen and mitochondria. I mean, we breathe in oxygen. We breathe out carbon dioxide. And that's the input and the output of what's called the oxidative phosphorylation

19:48or crev cycle or TCOs, a cycle, it's all the same thing where you take energy in the form of glucose and you turn it into the usable form of energy, ATP and in the same triphosphate. And the byproduct of that is the carbon dioxide. It's you need the oxygen that goes to the mitochondria that does the magic. So I, yes, I'm so happy that you can just break it down for us because it's been too long since I've taken ninth grade biology. So I even I need the refresher. So Dr. John, you had said something before about estrogen being protective. And I think that that's an important piece of this conversation because this entire conversation is not to scare people away from using hormone replacement therapy or using estradiol or estriol. But it's to shine the light on when you do that you take the proper steps, like I need to to make sure that I am properly metabolizing and eliminating

20:52the extra metabolites of estrogen or any excess estrogen that maybe just not needed by my cells at that time. So David, I know that your wife went through breast cancer and that really was the beginning point of your whole story of diving into the research on sulfur or fame. So can you take us back? I know this goes back to like 2012. But what occurred then? What I mean, obviously you went through a really tough time because any kind of big C diagnosis, I know at first hand is rough. It doesn't matter what stage it's in. It doesn't matter what treatment you have to do. You don't want to hear the big C ever in your life. So that's really, really hard on you, on your wife, on your family. Kind of take us back to that time and what emerged? What got you interested in studying this compoundal perfume? Yeah. And Samura basically was diagnosed with breast cancer and she was a nurse. Part of it here we think she was a night nurse.

21:53And so that increased your chances of breast cancer. She also had breast dead and had a number of clogs here that she would kind of squeeze out and that trauma probably had something to do with it too. But basically she'd seen what happened with chemotherapy. So she didn't want to do that. And so we ended up, you know, she was like, can you look and see if they're natural compounds? That would be helpful. And I have a background. I think nine semesters of chemistry, three semesters of biochem. And so, you know, you can read a paper and kind of cut through the lies, damn lies and statistics saying and kind of cut through it. I met John that very first week. She was diagnosed and he was incredible resource because his wife had gone through it 10 years earlier and he also reads a lot and just knew pretty much something about everything that I'd asked him. And so what we were seeing was like, there are a lot of these amazing compounds that they had cell studies on. So you put like, curcumin, you put some for a thing on a cell and then it's magic.

22:57And it's just like, oh my gosh, like, this is amazing. But like, especially with the fat, sorry, bowl compounds like curcumin, how do you know that when you swallow something, it's doing that because it's typically not. It doesn't not enough gets through the gut barrier. And with sulforophane, it does. And so if your listeners are going to come away with one thing from this podcast, it's that most except for two supplements, broccoli and one from France, all of the other broccoli supplements on the market are the pre-cursure molecule, glucorephane, which will not do exactly what sulforophane does. And that issue is that sulforophane is infamously unstable. There's a company in France and there's us that figured out how to stabilize it. And glucorephane and the pre-cursure is stable. And so glucorephane is also called sulforophane glucosinolate. Well, the glucosinolates are the precursors of that family of molecules. So it's pre-cursor of sulforophane, but people look on the label and they see sulforophane and they think they're getting sulforophane in there. So basically you have a hetero broccoli, you chew it and it breaks down the cell

23:57wall, which has an enzyme called myrosinase, which converts it into sulforophane. You swallow it, you get the benefit, but if you try to harness it, historically, it degrades quickly hours to days. And so it's not shelf stable. That's where people grew like we tried, we fell into the hole. We saw sulforophane glucosinolate by a bunch of, and we're like, this isn't doing anything. Then we were like, oh, it's because it's not sulforophane. And so there are supplements on Amazon. I think there are nine of them that say on the label they have sulforophane. Illegally, they don't, you ask for the certificate of authentication. And it'll tell you that it's glucoraphinin. But I think a lot of these, you know, I mean, a lot of companies, sulforophane companies are marketing companies. They do not understand the science. And so I don't want to, you know, I think there are some villains in the industry, but I think a lot of people are just not, they just don't know what they don't know. And so, you know, we've been at conferences and we have like really smart doctors, John, I'll speak.

24:57And in the talk, we'll say this, we have the only naturally derived sulforophane and supplement on the market. And so basically if you're going to buy, I'd say they grow broccoli sprouts and we sell seeds because not all broccoli seeds you get on the, from Amazon, have the ability to make sulforophane. I don't know how that's possible, but we've tested them. Interesting. And so you get with a half pound, you get 400 milligrams of sulforophane. We're not a sea company, but because we tested and we're like, oh my gosh, people are people are getting like this ripped off basically. But I'd also say if you're going to buy a glue graph and supplement, you might as well just flush your money down the toilet. I mean, it's our product is expensive, but it's expensive because we do everything by hand. We make sure you get more than actually what's on the label and that it's stable and that basically we don't use any fillers. We don't use any flow agents. We just stuff as much of that powder in the capsule as possible. And we use small capsules. You've seen the size specifically because, you know, my wife took,

26:02Mara took hundreds of capsules a day. Yeah. And there, I mean, some of them are like, mass, like they're so huge. You get something like fatigue. That's for sure. Yeah. And so sick people have trouble swallowing. Yes. And so having small capsules and no filler is kind of what we do. And so the important thing to remember is we're talking about sulforophane, but you will be sadly mistaken and you'll be disappointed. If you use a glucoraphid and stuff. And we'll also say the plus and broccoli plus is we add the good molecule from watercress. It's a cousin molecule to sulforophane. And we do that specifically because it works in synergy with sulforophane to induce the inner of two pathway, that messaging molecule that goes into the nucleus and does all the good stuff. And so an additive property, it's 1 plus 1 equals 2. And so it doesn't double the inner of 2's how much it works. It's like five times. So 1 plus 1 equals 5. And so you're also not going to get that even if every ounce of the glucoraphinin was converted,

27:06you're not going to get that was converted into sulforophane. You're not going to get that. The last thing we say is there are about nine cousin molecules in the seat in the broccoli seat. And people have hard enough time as we talk about sulforophane. So we don't mention all the other ones, but all the other ones we extract as well. And we stabilize as well. And so there's a whole slew of these cousin molecules that work together to give you the benefit. You're not going to get that in just a glucoraphidisnopolis. So you were actually able to take Mara's own cancer cells. Now I actually did a a detour test where they took my circulating tumor cells and tested it against a variety of different agents. And they wanted to see which agents would actually kill off or partially kill off my circulating tumor cells, my cancer cells. So you were able to basically do the same thing with Mara's cancer cells and you tested it against sulforophane. That was one of the compounds that you used that really stood out.

28:07So without taking us too far into the laboratory, what did you observe when you use sulforophane against Mara's cancer cells? John is the one that did it in our lab, but yeah, basically we were able to get tumor biopsies. That was really good. And then once you talk about how you grew up, because it's kind of wild. Yeah. Like as soon as you start talking about that situation, the first thing I thought about was that I didn't even know that that wasn't common. I do cell culture. I've been doing it for so long. I didn't know that that wasn't being done. And so growing cells from tumors and growing them from circulating tumor cells and making a cell line out of it, I didn't know that that was not being done. And then the first thing that we did was, you know, you have enough cells that you can do a whole gigantic 96 well plate and do replicates and put on 6070 natural compounds. So you really find out what is killing and what is not. And then the other thing is after you find out what is working and then the person starts taking it,

29:11all the people that we did that with their circulating tumor cells went to zero. And so it was astounding to us that that could happen. But I think the thing that is not known is that doesn't actually stop metastasis. Those aren't the cells that you're interested in. Metastatic cells are actually a different type of cell that's embedded within the original one. It's a cancer stem cell and has some characteristics that make it be able to seed and grow in a distant organ. And so five has like came out therapeutics, natural or synthetic because they grew much slower. Okay. So then we switched to measuring cancer stem cells and then growing cancer stem cells and then doing the same thing. On the stem cells and then finding that there was different compounds worked for that set of cell lines. And then when you start being able to change the circulating cancer stem cell numbers, then the real progression is slowed down.

30:13And that's, you know, what we were trying to do. But the compounds, we knew what concentration did that. And it was very difficult to get any of those compounds to high enough concentration to actually do that. But so for a thing was right from the beginning, high enough because I don't think people know this. But if you take 10 milligrams of so for a thing, you get between one and two micromole in your circulation. It's very highly by available. But what I was going to say is that good. Is that a good job? Yeah. So that's enough to change the cell dramatically and see enter of two induction. But if you take 350 milligrams of so for a thing, it still is in between one and two micromole. So you've increased the dose whatever fold, you know, that is not quite a hundredfold, 60 fold, whatever higher. Yet the dose is still there. So that's why right from the beginning, we're like, we need to work on synergies. You know, we can start with so for a fan and then what can you add to that to make it even more efficacious?

31:17And so I think we're the first people to show enter of two induction and a human. And then I had to develop the NASA where you have X, Vivo, you pull the cells out and then treat them. And then you can compare in Vivo and in vitro concentrations with pure sulfor fan on it. So we got just from our two pills, the equivalent of five micromole that was equivalent to putting five micromole of pure sulfor fan right onto the cells. And so that was our strategy all along. And we did it because we wanted it for our loved ones that had cancer. And you know, there's however many 6,000 papers or so on this compound and it's chemo protective. And it's just a shame that that's not being utilized. It's not out there. Nobody is actually applying that incredibly expensive information that took, you know, 6,000 papers. I can't imagine how much that costs to produce that information. And it's using the one thing you didn't mention is correct. Okay, from my what's sulfor fan was one of the only compounds that was able to impact this

32:22with all of the cancer stem cells. So you came across the other compote or compounds, but that was the one that was kind of universal. It is selective for cancer stem cells. So now is sulfor fan binding to estrogen to remove it. And then it's also acting as an antioxidant and cellular protection. Like what I guess with everything that you just said, you know, the question and the listener's mind is what's in it for me? So what's in it for them to take it? And we could be talking about the woman like myself like Mara, we've been through cancer already. We're doing everything in our power to prevent the recurrence. And then of course you have the subset of women that have never heard that big C word, but nobody wants to. And they want to do all the things they possibly can to protect themselves against cancer. But it would still reap the benefits of estrogen therapy or estrogen as their own hormone. So what's in it for them? Why does all of this, why does your research on Mara's cancer cells matter?

33:26I think the bottom line is that maybe it's just a little bit of a reframing, but the same person who was just diagnosed with a, you know, stage one cancer, they're doing the same thing as the person that has the stage zero cancer who doesn't have cancer. And as the same as the person that has stage three, you're trying to slow down progression. And so you're trying to stop the next step. And the next step is complicated. But what's very clear that's in the center of all of them is, you know, these common hub signalling networks. And because so forfane hits, you know, we just talked about two, but it's a bunch of them, you know, we have to be careful saying all the things that it does, but there's paper showing five, six different pathways. And it's by covalent. It goes in there, binds to this complex and permanently alters that ability until that protein is remade or not made. And I think a lot of people don't understand that when you talk about blocking reactive oxygen species,

34:30most people understand that a vitamin C will bind to one single reactive oxygen species and stop it. But what we're talking about is turning on an enzyme. An enzyme is able to work on reactive oxygen species except the enzyme is turning over 10,000 per second. And then because you're turning on 50, those are all designed for all different kinds of antioxidant activity. The block reactive nitrogen species, you know, every single one, it's the way your body fights free radicals. And so by turning all of them on, you're doing what everybody thought they were doing, you know, in the 80s and 90s by taking an antioxidant, you're cooling down a flame, you know, that is on fire, but it actually does it because we all know we're swimming in toxic world. It's just everywhere. You were talking about these estrogen mimics very early on. And I think people don't realize that those are all detox, the same pathway, the same stuff.

35:32Phase one, phase two, phase three, phase one, that's made soluble phase two, it's conjugated to a carrier phase three, it's carried out and transported into your feces and urine. And, and you know, why so for a fein ends up being so well known and so many papers is because no matter what you're studying, if you're studying a model that is inflammatory based or it's you're studying model that's reactive oxygen space or you're studying a model where it's an estrogen mimics base. You know, that's, that's not doing the same as estrogen. It's just getting in there and willy-nilly turning things on and off. And that's why it seems to be in the center of everything. And I think that's both power. And then at some point, we always say, I don't know where to stop talking about it because at some point it becomes an acoil because you can't find where some disease process in the literature, make sure that I'm saying that correctly is mouse models and so culture. And then there are human clinical studies on some of this, you know, where you can say it does this, this sort of that thing.

36:38But, you know, there are at least preclinical models, not standard double, impossible control for very many diseases. But it's in the middle of so many different things that that's sort of the drawback is you're saying it does everything. But it's because this is at the center of most. Yeah, because they're saying processes. And I think it's important to add that just the disclaimer that will clearly than me. That basically supplements, including broccoli, can't legally cure prevent. Right, right. Those any disease state. And so, and I think I really like your question, what's in it for me? In your to the listeners because they kind of pools it down, right? It's like I'm John and I'll head. I will add though that if you think of cancer and anti aging is the flip side of the same court. And so if people want to slow their aging, want to age well, then so forth is important. Physic has many, many, many steps. For I think over five steps for different mechanisms for anti aging, including mitophagy, where these powerhouses of

37:42your cells that you need for your energy mitochondria can get stuck and they need to be shown the door and die and get resumboled. And so does that autophagy the same with regular cells, but on and on. And then also I liked when John said we're swimming in a talk talk to their toxic. They're mean that's the first thing we did with Mora is we went through the house and took away all of the toxins. Yep. And there were just there's so many like I studied environmental, loved environmental public health and public health school. But yet we weren't employing that. And so that was sort of the first step. You know, if you want to heal or if you want to stay healthy, you can't be bombarded by all these, these toxins. And so and we haven't even talked about microplastics or no. And so basing no estrogens all that's where I was going to go next. So that's beautiful that you brought it up because we can't talk about estrogen and detoxification without talking about the soup that we're in right now with like you said,

38:45endocrine disruptors, plastic, Zeno estrogens, all of it. Of course you had another incentive, obviously with Mora to go through the house and clear it. Like let's just get it out. But I think a lot of people, unless they've had that scary diagnosis, they're like, well, you know, it's not a big deal. I'm a little bit here, a little bit there and they don't really pay attention and they don't deep dive into looking at every single thing they're putting on their body and in their body. So let's talk about that. Okay, outside of let's say the women or the men who have had a cancer diagnosis, you know, we kind of started talking about that and the importance. But let's talk about the Zeno estrogens. Let's make this relatable for our non-parametiposal young people, 20s, 30s or even the parametiposal ladies that are like, I'm not even taking estrogen. Why do I even care? Well, it's because you are encountering these chemicals every single day. So talk to me about where sulfuricane comes in to really help us with the exposure

39:45to these endocrine disruptors. Yeah. I liked the way you talk about the early pebrity. I think that's. Yeah. The perfect topic here. Yeah. I mean, if you think about what are micro-plastics first of all, let's talk about micro-plastics. What are they? So they're microscopic size pieces of plastic, but they're porous. And so they can have thousands of toxins in them, including BPA, including phallates, which are endocrine disruptors or estrogen mimics. And so Netflix, did you see the Netflix documentary? They came out in March called Microplastics. No, I'm going to have to watch that. Yeah. It's more entertaining. It's less sciency, but they did measure BPA in people. And so the premise was they had eight couples who couldn't get pregnant. And this lady was specialized and she decreased their micro-plastics burden. She did other toxins too, like clean splice and get them sort of clean their houses. But that it was heavy on micro-plastics, the name of the documentary. Basically, the reason that they started with infertility is because of the whole micro-plastics

40:53with these endocrine disruptors can cause a regular administration in women. But John, you think about girls getting puberty a lot earlier than they did 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago when plastics were introduced. It's no doubt because of these micro-plastics. And it also affects men, the quality of the sperm, the amount of the sperm. And so really, I mean, if you think about our exposure, it's pretty staggering. Over half of our exposure is in the air that we breathe. And that's because of our arrocks. That's because of our couches. I don't know if you've seen like, you know, if there's this light kind of ray of light shining in your house and you get to see the dust. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that now is micro-plastics. Or if you empty the lint tray and there's the poof of, and you know, it's, if you have just natural fibers, then you don't have micro-plastics in that poof. But if you do have synthetic fibers, then there are micro-plastics. So like spandex, nylon, polyester, all of those are plastic, basically.

42:01It wasn't until that documentary. I mean, I still had, I wasn't really using them, but I still had these plastic topwares around the house. My mom loves to get me plastic. You know, she looks like some food, honey. Yes. And so it's, and they're plastic. But I just, when it just threw everything away. And I would say, if you're concerned about this, if you have plastic food storage containers in your house, throw them away. Totally. And get glass. You can get, I get some glass ones. They have like some plastic on the top, but then they have silicone, which is fine. It's not plastic. Silicone is not plastic. Or metal. Also, I get lots of metal containers now. And there's their easy, because you can just throw either of those in the oven. But yeah, get rid of those food storage containers and get an aura filter on the pure drinking water. But the reason we're talking about this too is because this researcher out of Nebraska showed that so for a thing, our form broccoli is the only supplement can be shown to mobilize microplastics out of your cells. Wow. That's huge.

43:01That is huge. Yeah. And it does it by a different mechanism than other things that could that get detoxed. But basically, yeah, the cell, microplastics get in, we ingest them or we read them in. They get in our insides, they go through, they go through, they go lying, they get to the cell. And then they get engulfed in these lysosomes. So nitrate biology, lysosomes are like the garbage dispose all of the cell in the, these little vesicles that can engulf things that need to be engulfed like viruses. They have digestive enzymes. And so when a microplastic part of it gets engulfed and the lysosomes, it can't be digested because it's plastic. And so there's this build up, much like a kitchen sink getting clogged. And basically, so for a thing comes in and it allows those lysosomes to release the microplastics so that you can excrete them essentially. And so that's the beauty of it in a very simple, very simple way. Well, that was a huge benefit because I mean, when we're talking about obviously my audience,

44:01endocrine system, thyroid disorders, hormonal imbalance, microplastics, and all of these endocrine disruptors are, they play a huge role in whether or not we're going to respond to proper treatment or not or continue with symptoms. And then of course, a huge role in our overall health and longevity in disease states because a body that's bombarded with this, you know, we have that toxic bucket talk all the time. That when you fill your toxic bucket up and it overflows, that's where you start to see the issues in all of your, in all health. And that might be where you hear the big C or at the very least you get fat. I mean, that's what endocrine disruptors do. Then they just even disrupt our metabolism and you just gain weight from it and that sucks itself. So to have something where we don't have to, you know, prior to this conversation, talking with Dr. Tom O'Brien, he was telling me about a place over in like Switzerland or Sweden or somewhere that you go into the mountains and then they do this whole therapy. They filter your blood,

45:04they take out the microplastics. I don't know who has time or money to fly over to like one of the S countries, Switzerland, Sweden, wherever. I mean, it sounds beautiful, but I mean, not logical for the majority of us. Let's face it. So if we can take a compound that actually helps us, oh my gosh, that's just incredible. That's just mind blowing. I will say the gentleman who did the research at the time, I think it's still maybe the only microplastics blood test is the, oh, what's the guy's name? Brian Johnson has a test. His company blew something, but they came back and they're like, we have never seen a microplastics blood test this high. Like it's, it was like 10 times higher than anybody else's. Okay. So it was a baseline, you know, day zero, day one, day two, day three. And so at day zero baseline, they wanted, it didn't go, it was still high or still kind of at baseline. But then day two, it spiked this, and then I'm talking

46:05about the microplastics in the blood spiked. And then day three, it was back to below baseline. And so that was pretty, pretty dramatic to see. Like, okay, it goes to your point. Like you can feel filter your blood out or you can allow your body's natural systems to just do it for you. And so we, we did a second test to look at, okay, once they're mobilized, we worked with him on the second test, the first test, he just, we didn't know that he had done it until we read about it. But to see how is it getting out? Because that's the key piece, right? And you know, going back to how much microplastics or everywhere, John had a hard time finding a negative or control because like, if you look about in a lab, everything's plastic. And it's in the air. And so it's just like, how do you measure it? It's everywhere. Yeah. And so anyway, he was able to figure out because he's smart. And but he, he basically showed it comes out in feces. But the second go around this researcher's, it was

47:06an interval in study, the researcher's blood. It was a very similar like spike on day two down below baseline day three. But the difference was that it wasn't as high. And so that was pretty interesting that it actually can move the deal on how much. And that's important going back to what you're saying is because, you know, if you think of these estrogen mimicking compounds that are in the microplastics like BPA, the estrogen is a signaling compound. When do you have an instrument? Or when do you go into puberty or that sort of thing? And if the signals is being kind of covered or if there's a competing signal, it's almost like watching two television shows on top of each other. You're not going to know the plot of either show because it's all garbled. You may be able to see a character here and there. But if you can clean that up and get that second signal from these estrogen mimicking compounds out of there, then you're golden. Yes. Oh my goodness. You guys are blowing me away, Tate. This has been such an incredible interesting conversation.

48:08And there's so many takeaways. I mean, I would say my biggest takeaway from this conversation is that first of all, detox is not a juice cleanse. I always say that juice cleanse people. It really is chemistry. It's biochemistry. And we have to look at how our body detoxes and how we can help it. And you know, my body, it can produce estrogen. I can apply estradiol through a patch, a cream, my serum estradiol can look acceptable, beautiful, optimal. But that doesn't automatically tell me whether or not I am neutralizing and eliminating these hormones appropriately. Now my new estrogen result, like I shared earlier, is mind blowing. I really, I'm going to do the Dutch test as well. I'm going to use broccoli to another month or so. Do a Dutch test, really compare that. But I think even in just a couple of months that I've been using it, seeing that estround drop and then just learning from you all today, all of the other benefits that I didn't even know I was getting, which I feel very blessed to get the microplastic benefits and the detox benefits and the protection.

49:15It's kind of one of those formulations. It's a compound that like you said earlier, Dr. John, why wouldn't we all use it? I mean, the studies are there. Like, why is this not being talked about more? Why isn't this being spoken about in cancer research because the literature is there? But at least you are making it available for people in the product broccoli. That's what I've been taking for the last couple of months that it's blowing me away, seeing my labs. It's absolutely blowing me away. Now I know you all are giving my listeners and thank you for that because I want my listeners to take it to experience the benefits. I have a whole program where we just got done talking about estrogen detoxification and this is one that I'm going to put right into the program right now that I've learned more about it. It's like, ladies, here you go. If you have that higher estround or if you're even just taking hormones or you're, how about you're living? If you're living in this world, being exposed to Zeno estrogen toxins and neckline disruptors, throw this in. It's

50:21going to give you a ton of other benefits as well, but you're also giving my listeners 15% off. So they're going to go to m-a-r-a-l-a-b-s.com forward slash Dr. Amy, D-R-A-M-I-E, and you're going to use the code Dr. Amy, a check out. Now we're going to put that down in the show notes as well for you all, but that's where you get 15% off. Guys. Dr. Amy, the first week after the release of your podcast, we're going to get 25% off. And then after that, it would be 15 ongoing, but I would also like to mention we just came out with a specific microplastics product. So basically, the broccoli is great. If you're looking at the kitchen sink analogy, the broccoli unclogs the kitchen sink, but we have a resveral troll product that widens the pipe and so allows more to get out. And so we have it that plus a couple of ingredients that bind

51:22the microplastics into that. It's called microplast X at the end. Anyway, that's going to be on there and you can get that on the sale as well. Oh my goodness. That's amazing as well. I mean, you, yeah, who doesn't want to detox from microplastics? I don't know. I don't know anyone that says, yeah, just leave the plastics in my system. That's cool. Yes. So that is incredible. We'll link to that product as well down below and specifically to Brock Leap. If you go to m-a-labs.com forward slash doctor, you need that's where you're going to get your hands on all of this for 25% off after this episode drops. So if you're listening to this, you're delayed and listening to this, you're still going to get 15% off. So check the link in the show notes. And Dr. John, David, thank you so much for your time today and breaking down this very complex topic. But really providing detailed information to my listeners is to why they need this and the benefits that they'll receive. So I'm very grateful for your time today. Thank you so much. It's good to be here. We do

52:22believe in the products and we do offer a hundred-day money back guarantee. So we just encourage people to just try them and we stand by that guarantee. So there's no pressure. Amazing. That's amazing. That's a great company right there. So thank you once again and ladies, share this episode with the woman in your life that you love with a man in your life that you love because we all need that extra layer of protection, detoxification and all the different things that we talked about in today's episode. So until next time, thank you so much for listening. The information shared on the Thiratfixer Podcast is intended solely for informational and educational purposes. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always consult with your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition treatment or before making changes to your healthcare regimen, including medications, supplements or other therapies. Use of the information provided in this podcast does not establish a doctor, patient or client, provide a relationship between you and the host or between you and any other healthcare professionals featured on the show. Any medical

53:27opinions or statements made by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or affiliated parties. Statements regarding dietary supplements or health-related products mentioned in this podcast have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Some episodes at the Thiratfixer Podcast may include sponsorships or affiliate links. The host may receive compensation for discussing or promoting certain products or services. Any such sponsorships or affiliations will be clearly disclosed during the episode. All opinions expressed are those of the host or guests that do not necessarily reflect the views of any sponsors. The inclusion of a product or service does not imply endorsement by any healthcare professional featured on this podcast.