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Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

Phone's here at AAA 8255225.

It's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Can common Ramsey personality, normal and best selling author and host of the Uber popular

front row seat interview show on the Ramsey Network?

She's my co-host today as we take your calls and your questions.

Thank you for being here.

Ray starts us off today.

Hi, Ray, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic Dave.

How are you?

Then I deserve what's up.

First off, it's an honor to talk to you.

Me and my wife found you back in January.

We both read the total money makeover and actually this Friday, we drove to town and sold

our my dirt bike and with that check, we'll be able to pay off our auto loan and be get free.

Wow, look at you, man, game on.

We're, yeah, we're excited.

My question today, though, is about our family business.

So I'm a third generation farmer.

I'm 27 years old and we have had a tough couple of years on the farm.

We've racked up about $2 million of debt these past two years and we see things getting

better in the future.

So we'll hopefully be making more money, you know, markets and all the other factors going into

that. But we've had to do a lot of deferring updating equipment and a lot of other things to make

it by this, to this forest. And so my question is, how do we, from this point on, be debt free,

but also trying to not go back to going into debt in the future when things get tough again?

Wow, $2 million of losses in two years.

Yes.

So I guess I should say, last year we made about $12 million in revenue.

And, you know, milk markets is our main exposure to price risk. We milk quite a few cows.

And so it's very regulated on the federal milk marketing order.

And so we don't really have a control over how much we get for our milk.

We mainly have control over the expenses. So we've had to go without updating equipment.

We haven't been able to do a lot of different projects that we've been wanting to.

A lot of our amazing employees and guys we work with have been going with smaller pay raises

these past couple of years just so that we can get by. And the, we've had to liquidate cattle to

try and, you know, break even and it's been difficult. We see getting better in the future,

but we're going to want to pay again.

Why do you say getting better in the future?

You know, a lot of it has to do with my dad. You know, I trust him a lot. And,

you know, when we talk about, you know, what markets look like in the future, whether it's,

you know, ag in general or just, you know, milk prices going forward,

we see things getting better. And I trust those judgments. And to be honest,

we've gotten this far as we have because of him. And, you know, many other friends that

are in the similar boat as we have probably five X times amount of debt. And they don't see

away forward. And I'm grateful for what my dad has done to get us to this point. And, you know,

I'm confident and trust him in that aspect. And, you know, I see, I'm not as experienced as you

can tell. I'm only 27. I appreciate that. And I appreciate your honoring your dad. That's awesome.

I am. And I, I mean, just a blind trust of him is not what we need. We need to have a reason

that he thinks the market is going to adjust so that you can become profitable. And I don't know

enough about it to come in on that one way or the other. So the thing is, I mean, obviously,

you keep expenses down. Revenues go up. The difference is called profit, right? That's no kidding.

And so as that happens, you clean up the debt first before you do capital expansions.

And from this point forward, you start setting aside percentages of your profits for retained

earnings so that you build a cash war chest. So if the markets were to cycle down like this again

in the future, they don't take you out. And that's what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of

our gross revenues of our net profits every month and set them aside as additional savings

called retained earnings. And so when COVID hits and we lose, you know, a bazillion dollars worth

a revenue for a few months there, we don't go out of business because we're sitting on a

war chest of cash. And that's how you build up in the future. But of course, in order to get there,

you've got to, you know, experience a turnaround in the marketplace, which again,

I have no expertise to comment on that one way or the other.

Yeah, we're flying blind on that. I do want to ask a derivative, though. What is the biggest

driver of you going into debt? Is it that loss revenue? Are the expenses are out of control?

And what is it? Well, it definitely is loss revenue. Well, so this last year, my best,

you know, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but say about 12 million in revenue,

whereas in some years, you know, back in, I think it was 22, we made well over 16 in revenue.

So there is a lot of swing, especially these past couple of years in milk prices. And we've tried

to, you know, cutting expenses, like I said, and trying to make do with, you know, the small margin.

So in my hearing, is so is it a drawback from consumption because of pricing that's caused that

$4 million gap? Well, in terms of, you know, our production has stayed pretty consistent.

Okay. You know, the, in terms of pricing, it's a government price control. And then they just

took the price. Yeah. Okay. And so they drive you out of business. This is what they're going to do.

So, um, yeah, and it's not a competitive right. So right. So right. Not in the state.

Well, and so the reason I'm digging into that, I wanted to make sure I totally understood that.

I don't know how you can have confidence. And I'm just kind of circling back to something Dave

said. I think there's some wisdom there. Um, I love the, uh, honoring your dad. But I mean, if this

is a government problem, then I wouldn't have a ton of confidence unless the milk lobby. And I'm

speaking in general terms here, I know it exists. Uh, but that's your only weapon to kind of fight

this or else you're stuck. And so as you're looking long term, uh, and again, I don't have great

knowledge of it. I can look at it from a macro standpoint, I understand it, but I would be looking at

that and making sure that I know what's going on. Am I talking to the lobbyists? Do I know what they're

projecting Dave? Because, I mean, your, your hope is, and your dad, your dad's hope is, is that the

pricing structure moves back up. And you're in the 16 range again, it's to the 12 range, which makes

you profitable. Right. You clear the two million and you pile cash up. So the next time this happens,

you don't go into debt. And you pile cash up so that you can do your capital improvements with cash

above your emergency funding. You know, and so the next time you have an upswing, you use it for,

you know, much more wisely. What do you do, though? And again, I'm asking for no macro. I have no

control over what the government does. And, you know, when they set the price somewhat arbitrarily,

that scares the crud out of me. I wouldn't that as a business person. Yeah. I'm going to enter into a

business that I live and die based on the whim of the latest administration. Yeah. Oh my God.

Yeah. Shoot me. That scares me to death. I don't control my own destiny here. And so

the markets aren't, and even free market is not controlling the pricing. It's just a subsidy

situation. So I don't know that that you got to figure all that out. And long term, you got to

figure out, do you want to be susceptible to this?

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Tom is with us in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, Dave. Thanks. Sure. What's up? I am a master electrician working for another master

electrician for the last four or five years. And I recently discovered that we're about 20 weeks

behind on payroll. It equates about $18,000. I'm looking for some advice. I'm sorry.

Here. You haven't been paid in 20 weeks, but you recently discovered that?

I've been getting paid, but not, you know, like two pay periods in a month or three pay periods in

a month, not four. And it's accumulated into, yeah. And in February, the most up to date pay period I

have is October 4th. Why are you just discovering this? Well, that's a phenomenal question.

It's definitely my fault that I have failed to realize it for this long. I've been building a house.

They just had a baby. I got married this year. And it just, which would be all the more

reasons I counted on my paychecks. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So why is the guy not paying you

what he owes you? Well, it used to be a company of five employees. And then everybody left. And

it was just him and myself. And then he got stiffed on a $25,000 job. He put a lien on the property

but never got paid for it. And I think he just transferred that deficit from supply stores and

lines of credit to not paying me because I don't charge interest. But never bothered to discuss

this with you. Correct. And when did you discover this? I discovered it the week before last on

a Thursday. Okay. Have you found a new job yet? Well, I'm not working for a crook. Why would you?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I agree with you. My biggest concern is that I file a wage claim

and he declares bankruptcy. Oh, that's probably very likely. Yes. That's not you're not going to

get the money by sticking around though. You discovered he's a snake. Now that we've established

that, we also know one thing about snakes, all they do is bite. They don't do anything else. Don't

be shocked. And don't think the snake's going to turn into a rabbit. It's a snake. Leave.

That's part of the moral dilemma I've been having. Not a moral dilemma. It's common freaking sense.

Well, I have not been working. You know, I made it clear that I don't want to work until we're paid

up. But my thought was by creating the illusion that I would continue working for him. Maybe I could,

you know, get some of this money paid up before I tell him I'm leaving.

Okay. Let me, let me try one more time. Okay. This guy doesn't pay people and he lies about it.

That's not going to change based on any action you take. This is a guy. This is what he does.

He days a liar and a thief. That's who he is. The best thing you can do with liars and thieves

is to distance yourself from them so that you don't get lied to and stolen from.

I agree. So I'm afraid sir, you've lost your money because you didn't keep your finger on the

pulse and that's on you. It's also on him because he's a snake. But dude, you need to get a job

yesterday and quit trying to figure out a way to get this snake to not be a snake. He's a snake.

Yeah, I just think you're afraid of something. That's why you're doing this moral stuff and throwing

these words around. That's all that is you justifying your lack of inaction. And you've just been

two lessons you got to learn here. You have not been paying attention to what's going on.

Cost yourself a lot of money. Number two, you're afraid to step out. You think this guy's the only

guy that's going to pay you and you're in one of the most sought after trades there are right now.

And there's a massive need. There's a line around the block of people hiring master of

electricians. There's such a shortage of people in the trades. So you can go get something tomorrow

and you should have yesterday. He offered to transfer the titles on some trucks and trailers to

me. Do you think I'd just take that and run? Yes, yes, yes, like instantly. That's a scenario.

Yeah, yeah, I won't follow wage claim. If you give me a truck and a trailer worth what

you owe me 100%. I don't want to follow wage claim on you with a state. Yeah, that needs to do

that. And that's redemption for his thievery. Okay, yeah, take them and then hey, maybe you set

up shop for yourself then if you got a truck and a trailer, let's go, baby. Yeah, that is the plan.

That's a guy I can trust. The guy in my mirror, right? Very true. But now you're going to have to

have someone help you with the books because you don't pay attention to him much.

Sorry, Tom. You walked right into it, buddy. I love you, man. But yeah, you can be a good

electrician and a bad businessman. So be careful if you're setting yourself up in business that you

learn the business skills too. Wow, Ouch. You know what that is? That's a guy who works his butt off.

That's right. He works hard and most of everything he's gotten, he's outworked everybody else. Yeah.

And he thought he could outwork this and and folks, when you get in a situation like this,

what you can't do and Tom's a nice guy and he's an honest guy and a good guy, we're picking

at him a little bit, having some fun. But we've all done things like he's done. What he did is he took

his personal character of high work ethic, high honor, high integrity and tried to superimpose that

back on the guy who's a snake because he thinks other people are going to be like he is.

And what that'll leave is a scar. Yeah, it already has. Here's the great news. Until the very end

of that call, we thought he was getting nothing. And so the lesson here is, and again, not picking

on Tom, but there's fear. We didn't have time to break it down, but for him, hold on. And I'm

going to tell you, fear of the unknown just holds so many of us up, us all caps. I've done it.

When we don't know what's next, right, whether he goes out on his own or he's got to get out on

the street, you will put up with things that you would not normally put up with. And I'm telling you,

for everybody listening and watching, there's a lesson here. He's terrified of something. Maybe

just change. And that's normal, by the way. It doesn't make Tom a weirdo. That's all of us. So

learn the lesson there that when we have that fear, the fact that he called us today is good.

Get some insight from other people, Dave, because what'll happen is you get into this,

you know, in this loop that I can. The rumination. The rumination. The rumination.

That's the word. And it's really dangerous. Can hold back a lot of progress.

So I spoke at a church yesterday and between services go out and talk to people and all this

stuff. And a guy came up and he's like, how do you get over the fear running your own business?

And I said, I'll let you know. Yeah. Great statement. Right? I mean, the editor, John Johnson

of Ebony Magazine said the entrepreneurs, the only person who could go from sheer terror to

sheer exhilaration and back every 24 hours. Right. And so yeah, that's. So yeah, I got me a truck

and I got me a trailer. But and I have the skill. But now good. That's scary. It is scary.

And they'll acknowledge that, right? So yeah, you're you're right too. That's very good.

Well, I tell you, that's a good guy. The couple of lessons. So if you listen to this show,

you can learn things. That's the idea. It's not just entertaining. Although, Ken is quite entertaining.

But the, but the, you know, two takeaways is one, you got to pay attention. What's going on?

Yes. In detail. Yeah. Because no one else is managing you, but you. That's right.

And then two is don't try to make a snake into a rabbit. They're just snakes.

Yeah. And so just because you might be a good person, doesn't mean you can expect that of other

people. You can't always expect other people to react the way you are going to react to do what

you would do in that situation. Because let me just tell you, if Tom was in charge of the payroll,

the first day he couldn't make a check, a payroll check, he would have been sweating

and terrified and would have sat down and told the guy day one. That's right. He wouldn't

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Ever wanted to see the person who's calling in to ask a question?

Be in the room when we answer it. Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey show is going back on tour.

You can experience live Q&A crowd debates, local debt free screams, even raw confessions.

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and one in Anaheim, all in April. There's around 300 seats a night. Last year we sold out in 72 hours.

Grab your tickets right now at RamseySolutions.com. Slice events or click the link in the show notes

if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Ken, what show those are you're going to be in?

All four, Dave. Oh wow. They got me in the anchor spot. So I'm trying to keep things somewhat

controlled on the rails. You're trying to keep them on the rails. It's hard work. That'll be a

hard work. It's a lot to ask. Yeah, of one man. I'm excited. It's going to be fun.

Ethan's in Salt Lake City. Hey, Ethan, what's up?

Hey, Dave. I'm so glad it's you on the air. I've been listening to you for a little bit,

and I'm like, you know what? I need a good butt chewing from Dave.

Oh my gosh. I'm just going to leave the studio. I've never heard anybody ask for it.

Wow.

Clearly. Careful what you ask for.

No, I need it. So, little bit of what's going on. I mean, I got really great job.

I mean, I've made six figures. I made about 140 last year.

Good. What are you doing?

We've been really blessed. Industrial refrigeration.

Good for you. Well done. Okay.

So it's, yeah, really good trade. Work for my dad. He takes care of me.

But recently, a lot of house from my dad, they moved, and he took a hit

on selling the house to us, but gave us 100,000 gifts as a down payment.

And that also left us with 150K in equity. And I was like, I mean, this was a step up

in life. Might as well take it. And the payments, they were like, oh, it'd be tight,

but you should be able to do it. And my first mortgage payment come out,

and we're getting ready to have a kid. And I just paid out right for the kid

and I watched my checking account go. And I was like, both.

And then how much is your mortgage payments, sir?

So it's 3250 and about 3700 total with utilities.

Okay. Mortgage payments, not your problem, but your truck payment. How much is it?

So my, I actually don't have a truck. My company pays for trucks and gas and everything.

Got a car for my wife because the other vehicle we had broke down. How much is your vehicle

for your wife payment, sir? 514. Okay. What other debt do you have?

So recently also found what I thought was going to investment on some mineral rights in Idaho.

So bought that. That's about 400 a month. That's 4,000 total there. And then

I thought I was a big boy with a big boy job and saw a bike, pedal bike, but it's the

Ferrari of the pedal bike world. Okay. So you just keep going about buying and buying and buying

so have you figured out that's the problem? I guess you have. Yeah. So sell the pedal

bike to sell the mineral rights and get yourself on a budget and stay out of restaurants

and quit buying crap. Is that going to work? Yeah. That's what I'm doing. I just, yeah. So what

will the Ferrari bike bring? So it's actually pretty good to return. I'm trying to sell it for

9k, which is about 5,000 under what it should sell for. But I don't do you. Okay. You can get rid

of it. Okay. What about the mineral rights? So it is a waste of own. So I'm paying the guy. I

could reach out to him and see if I can cancel our contract. Yeah. Let's do that. Let's do that.

That intel. Yeah. Yeah. Just say, well, what do I need to do to be out of this because I can't

afford it about a house. I got a kid on the way and I'm broke. And I can't, I gotta, I gotta,

I gotta get, I gotta have some relief here. What do I do to get out of this? Just quit paying you.

I lose the rights. Sure. Done. You know, I'll give him back to you. I'll send him back today.

That's probably what it is. So you know, you just got to work through everything like that. And so

what you do is you just figure out the last time something made sense and go back to that point

and undo everything since then. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah. The house is probably a bit

much, but I don't think it's really your problem. I think it's all the other crap.

And you don't have a plan. Yeah. I live on a plan. You just look at see how much is in the

checking account and that tells you if you're okay or not. That's not a budget. You need a budget.

You need to get on every dollar. I'll give it to you. Give you a free trial on it and get

you started. You and your wife sit down the night, give every dollar a name. You make freaking 140K,

stay out of restaurants, don't go on vacation, get rid of the Ferrari bike and the middle rights.

And let's get this thing to balance. I think you can do it.

Yeah. That's a pretty light budget. That's not bad.

Yeah. Just realistically, I've been on the edge of this because more of

we really like our car. It's really reliable for her and the kids.

Well, you probably need to sell it too.

I think you need to sell it. Yeah, probably.

I think if I get rid of every thing.

What if you didn't have any payments about a house payment? I think your life would be pretty good.

Oh, it'd be amazing. Okay. I think your budget would balance and all of a sudden you wouldn't

have been calling Dave. But you keep buying crap and just going, it's going to be okay.

It's not going to be okay. You've got yourself into a mess.

Yeah. Pay check. Pay check.

Is anything about that feel good to you? Does this work?

I mean, you could get her a $10,000 car. People don't die in $10,000 cars.

I own a couple of. Yeah. How old are the kids?

It's got one. My son's four, my daughter's two, and baby three is any day.

My point is, those littles don't need the nicest minivan or the latest SUV. They don't care.

They're just going to throw goldfish on the carpet anyway and grind them in with their grimy little

feet. We hear this all the time. It's a rationalization. You're not the only person that ever does it.

Oh, I've got two kids. I got a third on the way. I got to go get a car. I can't afford.

Nobody cares. Get you. Get your old worn out minivan that just gets you from here to there

until you've got a little money piled up and then pay cash for her a little better car.

But you guys, you know, you just been acting like you're in Congress and spending money.

You're going to stop it. And you know what to do. You already knew what to do for you called.

And that's why you set the call up the way you did, which was kind of humorous and fun, by the way.

But really, I mean, look in the mirror. You and your wife go grown up time three little babies

and stupid butt stuff has to stop. And you know, this has grown. This is one of the kids

adulting. Yeah. Yeah. We're adulting. Okay, Dave. Question for you. I haven't asked you

in a while. What is going on in the in the mind of a human because we've all done this where

there's this awesome feeling about getting the Ferrari of pedal bikes. And and you know deep

down that you can't afford it, but you still do it anyway. What's going on? They're not looking

no one looks at whether they can afford it. See, what happens is when you do not have an overall

plan, like a budget, okay, and a detailed game plan of this is what we're going to do with our

money on purpose. It could be a Ferrari bike. I don't care. I mean, you can buy whatever is in your

detail plan. When you say, can I afford this couch? And you look at it as a part of your overall

life plan and the numbers, then you can tell if you can afford the couch. When you're just walking

through the furniture store and you're disconnected from all those other numbers, then you go,

of course, I can afford the couch. It's only, you know, whatever. Of course, I can afford a $9,000

battery bicycle, thingy, whatever. But it's the Ferrari Tesla of bicycles, but yeah, probably

catches on fire. But the I mean, but what it messes is I can afford that boat. I can afford that

when you don't look at it as a part of a hole and you look at it as a standalone thing, then you go,

I make $140,000. You're not going to afford a $10,000 thing. That would be true. If you don't look at

it as a part of the overall picture, but when you plug it into the overall picture, it screams in

sanity. And same thing with your car purchase, same thing with your house purchase, all these things.

And you just go, yeah, if I didn't have anything else to think about except this one couch, sure,

but lots of time, but we never do that. And so it's not, it's compartmentalizing,

rather than looking holistically, causes us to be insane.

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Patrick's in New York City. Hey Patrick, what's up?

Good afternoon gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. I'm 66 years old in relatively good health still working. I own my own business.

I have a net worth of nine point five million dollars and I want to make sure it's in the right

place and by the grace of God and a lot of years following Dave Ramsey from a bunch of different

shipyards throughout the U.S. and other discipline paid off. Man, you're amazing. Ten million

dollar net worth. Dude, I'm proud of you. Yes sir. Just to be just to be clear, I've never lived

high on a hog on first generation Irish Catholic out of the Bronx. So I'm not impressed by

I heard you say Ferrari before and that sort of thing. I live very simply and I'm very content.

Good for you. Good for you. How can we help you, sir? You're amazing.

Right now, I have approximately $580,000 in cash in the bank. I have another 3.9 million

in CDs with various maturity dates. 401Ks from my corporate life and my earlier days working

for people. I have approximately $3 million. I have approximately $1.4 million in properties.

There's no mortgages and they generate about $8,500 a month gross before taxes and that sort of

thing. I own three vehicles that are less than a year old. They're all paid for and my Dave Ramsey

emergency cash one in the proverbial cookie has about $30,000 in cash. Well, plus 580 in checking.

Yeah, and 3.9 in CDs. Okay. Wow. Way to go, man. So how can I help again?

I'm and I'm still working. Should I move that cash at roughly $580,000 in cash? Should I bring

that into? I don't really need it. I'm not trying to sound high-spirited. Should I move that into

CDs? Should I put that in some other investment? I have two adult children that are self-sufficient

and obviously, please, God, when my time comes, all of that will be done. I do have a will,

but I do not have a revocable living trust. Trust. You don't need one.

Okay. I do not have that much of a percentage of my net worth in cash in CDs in cash.

Instead of doing that, you don't need that 3.9. You're not even using the income off of that

3.9 or that 580 for that matter. And those could easily be put into something very simple, very

low-key into some mutual funds and make you about three times more money. Okay. And so,

if you got $4 million and it earns you 3%, what is that? $120,000 a year? Did I do that right?

Yes, sir. Okay. And if it doesn't earn you 3%, but it earns you 10%, that'd be like $360,000

so that money sitting in CDs cost you a quarter million dollars last year.

It should have been invested well. And so, something to think about. I mean, and here's the thing,

if you got it in good mutual funds on the stock market, it doesn't earn what it always earns.

Like last year, it was like ridiculous. It was crazy. I mean, we made like 26% of our money last

year, but that's not real. This year we're down 5% year to date. Okay. But we have a little war going

on and a couple of other things. And so, but the overall market, let me look right, I just pulled it

up a minute ago. It's, no, it's down 2% year to date. So, you would have lost a little bit since

January 1 after having made ridiculous money last year. But the average is you're going to make way

more than you would on a CD. And that's why I don't park that kind of money in cash. Unless I'm

using it for something like retained earnings here at the company, we've got substantial cash

position with that. But in terms of my personal investment portfolio, very small percentage is

actually sitting in cash. If I'm parking money, like I've got some money right now as an example,

parked in an S&P 500 fund. So, just a mutual fund. And I'm going to be buying some real estate with it

later. But instead of leaving it in a CD and waiting to buy real estate, I'm leaving it in there

earning three times more on average than I would have made on a CD while I'm waiting. Now, right now,

that money's lost 2% since first year. But I'm really not worried about it. It's 2% doesn't matter

one way or the other because I'm probably not going to touch it next few months. And by then,

you know, I'm sure the market will be back up. So, anyway, all that to say, you've done an

incredible job. I'm so proud of you. If you leave it exactly the way it is, you're not doing

anything wrong. But could you turn the knob a couple of clicks and make another two, three hundred

thousand dollars a year on this money? Probably. By sitting down with a smart investor pro and learning

about some places to park that instead of CDs and instead of in cash equivalents.

Patrick's going to lose a little sleep tonight off of that revelation that you gave him.

Yeah. Everybody's done so well. I mean, this is by the way. Hasn't anything wrong. This is the

baby steps millionaire right here. Live it on less than a millionaire. I know. Unbelievable.

Just incredible. Write it 10 million. Way to go, man. I'm just so proud of it. It's great. But

this is like you did a 99 or 98% great job and all we're doing is just clicking it on that 2%

saw. So nobody's criticizing you, Patrick. You got it, man. If you leave it exactly the way it is,

you are a stud. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. Very, very well done. So folks, here's the thing you

want to think about. And this is the concept we're teaching right here. It's called opportunity cost

on your money. When you take a block of money and you put it in one thing, by definition,

it cannot be in the other thing. It loses the opportunity to be in the other thing. And so

if you take $100,000 and you buy a car, you're not only bought a car, but you lost the opportunity

to invest that $100,000. That's what opportunity cost me. So let's say you had that $100,000

invested last year, you would have made $25,000 on it last year. And instead, you bought a car

for $100,000 that is now worth $40,000. And so you traded $100,000 for $40 instead of $100,000

in a quarter. That's the opportunity cost. Now, it's okay to buy a car and they all go down and

value. Okay. I've got cars and they all go to my own all go down and value. There's no exception

to that. But anytime you're looking at something going, I'm going, I'm not only a mate, you were

talking while I go about making a purchase decision. When you're buying the Ferrari of bikes,

what else could I have done with that money? What's the other option? What opportunity

that I miss out on? And so if you got a million dollars invested or sitting in a coffee can

in your backyard in cash and it didn't make a dime or it could have been in a gross stock

mutual fund last year and would have made $250,000, you lost the opportunity by doing the coffee

to do the $250,000. Yeah. It's great illustration. And I actually did have a guy call in one time

that had money buried in a coffee can. How much was it? It was not that much. It was like a half

a million. But I'm like, dude, do you not understand that cash, cash in a steel coffee can?

The old metal coffee cans. It's going to rust. And then bugs are going to get in there.

The cash is going to actually get destroyed. Yeah. So when your relatives dig it up,

it's going to be like this little green powder. That's all that's going to be left. And that's

what you traded your half million for because you're a paranoid freak. And so, oh my god,

literally buried it in the backyard. No kidding. I mean, I actually know a few. I know a few people

that their relatives will be out there with the old metal detector looking through the backyard

when the old man kicks it because we're no, he's crazy and you buried the money back there.

But you miss the opportunity. That's what you need to think about. And it's always a good thing

to say, gosh, if I buy a $100,000 Mercedes and 20 years later, what would that $100,000

be worth? And 20 years later, what's that Mercedes worth? And that's the opportunity you miss

by going and wondering, you miss the opportunity to drive the Mercedes, by the way.

If you put it all in investments and have no life. Yeah. So you ought to get a good car too. That's

okay. But just think about trying not to think about the idea of the purchase or the investment as

a only this. If I do this, what am I else could I not do? What opportunity am I missing? And so,

I guess, you know, in modern lingo, we might call it FOMO. Yeah, it's exactly the FOMO of finance is

opportunity cost. And that's what we're talking about with him. If you had that $3.9 million

invested in citizen sitting in CDs, you miss the opportunity to make another quarter million dollars.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman Ramsey

Personality number one best selling author is my co-host today. The number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

Angie's in Chicago. Hi Angie. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I just want to get some advice. My husband and I are retired. He's 65 and I'm 70

and our home is paid for and so are both of our vehicles but we have a lot of credit card debt and it's

on a joke in us so that it's hard to make groceries even so I just look in for some direction.

How much credit card do you have? We go for a part time. It's probably 35, 40,000 dollars.

Okay and you both work part time and you're collecting social security.

Yes and he gets a small disability pension from the military and I have a small

pension from. So when I pile all of that together what's your monthly income?

About three thousand dollars. Both of you are on social security and both of you are working

and both of you have a pension and you only got three thousand dollars coming in.

Right. It's a very small pension. Very small social security.

Yeah. Hmm. He gets 16, 25 and I get 12, 50. Total. Right. Is that include your jobs?

The jobs I get at $400 a month and he gets paid by the job. He does trailer repair.

But very. Okay and what are your cars worth?

My car is probably worth $5,000. He's got a truck. It's probably worth $15,000.

What's your home worth?

About three hundred thousand.

Okay. Okay. And how is your health and his health?

Good. We're both so far. It's good.

Good. I have about $13,000 in an IRA.

Good for you. Okay. All right. Well two things come to mind immediately.

One is you can't do this backward and expect it to work. You don't pay the credit cards first

and then figure out how to eat. You eat first. Keep the lights on first.

Keep the homeowners insurance paid first. Keep the gas in the car first then with what's left.

You pay what you can on the credit cards. Credit cards are not first in line. They're last

in line after you survive. Okay. So it's not like after we pay our credit cards, we have the

money for groceries. No, it's after we buy groceries, we're on the money for credit cards.

You see the difference? Yeah. Yeah. So that's the first thing we adjust. The second thing we

adjust is I mean, you're only 65 and 70. Get a job. Well, we both are working. Part time

making nothing. Right. Four hundred dollars. I mean, you're starving to death.

Yeah. You're too broke to retire. Well, that's true. Yeah. I mean, what if you guys went to work

for a year like full time jobs and made 30 or 40 thousand bucks each and you paid off all these

credit cards? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I thought you didn't think you was going to hear that today. Did

you? It's not what we want. It's just a lot physically, physically honest. I mean,

they weren't good. I'm not telling you to wait tables, but I mean, you're I'm talking to an

intelligent lady that can carry on a conversation. There's a lot of customer service stuff you can do.

It's not physically draining. Here's the question I have. I'm listening to your stats, Angie.

And I don't think I've ever been on a call like this where I've heard somebody who has a paid

for house, paid for cars. And you have 35 to 40 thousand dollars of credit card debt. So

what is the cause of that? It's just accumulated over time. There's just always been

there's just always been a lot of more expense than we had in common. It's just kind of a

cumulative bit. And then when we didn't buy groceries and we put it on a card or when I needed

$1,500 there was a car repair and didn't have $1,500 on me. I put it on a credit card, things like that.

Well, we're going to have to spend enough more years in the workforce to reverse the trend.

To get your incomes up and enough of a nest a little bit of an aesthetic built to where it doesn't

leak again down into this, but cut up the credit cards and let's go crazy and get them paid off.

I'm not asking you to sell your house, but before I keep this credit card debt around five years,

I would sell the house. And instead, if it's me, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and go do something

and just get rid of this mess. It's just lingering and you guys are walking around acting like you're

retired and you're broke. And the good news is you still got your health. And in today's world,

65 years old is not that old. I am. And I work. So, you know, and at least they claim I work.

I think we could call it work. Show up pretty regularly. So, you know,

yeah, you can do that. You can go do something. I don't know what your past career was, but go

pick up a job doing that as a consultant or anything and him too. And if you, you know, again,

you don't have to go swing a hammer. No. And you don't have to do something, you know,

carry a waitress tray of 800 pounds or something. I'm not asking you to do that. But I think there's

something you guys could do to generate a few thousand dollars a month and a few thousand dollars

a month and make this credit card debt go away. Because it needs to go away forever. This is not

a sustainable situation. So, first thing is reprioritize and take care of you. What we call the

four walls of your house, food shelter clothing, transportation and utilities before you pay any bills.

You eat first, then you pay bills. You don't pay bills and then hope you can eat. Then secondly,

we got to get your income up to be able to address this overall issue. Or we got to start selling

stuff to cover it. And I don't think that's viable here. I don't think your house is crazy.

I mean, if you're living in a million dollar house or something, I'd probably have you move

down in house and clean up this mess. But your house is not out of control. Your cars are not out of

control. Thank God they're paid for. But your problem is you just do not have enough sustainable

income to live on. And that's what caused the credit card to reach to your problem. That's right.

There was margin issues. So here's why baby steps two and three are so important.

You've got to get that debt paid off. But then you've got to have that three to six months of

emergency funds so that you aren't tempted to solve the problem with the credit card. There just

was no margin for you to be able to have a rainy day fund. It's really important at the advanced

age here to have a really well-funded. I know. Hey, look, man, I'm not far behind. All right,

I'm trying to catch you. But I mean, it's really true, though, because if you have limited

income at that age and a car goes out for $1,500 and you don't have an emergency fund. You fix it.

That's what they do. Yep. Yep. So that's the things that we would tell you to do, kiddo. And hang on,

we're going to set you up with a free offering on every dollar the app. And that helps you put your

budget together. And your husband said, look at the numbers. And the numbers are going to tell you

eat first, pay bills last. That's a short-term fix. Your long-term fix is create income

to clear off these credit cards and shop them all up. Light a candle tonight and have a plastic

surgery party.

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Bethany is an Ashland Kentucky. Hi Bethany, how are you?

I am so thankful you took my call. I'm doing well, Dave. How are you guys?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my husband and I are ready to sell everything and change our entire lives. We need your help.

Okay.

We started out with $750,000 in debt when we first started our journey and we met you.

And we've got that down to $450,000. Well, actually $439,900 now.

Way to go. That's a part.

It is crazy. We have this unique situation where we bought a house on 125 acres in Kentucky.

It's a beautiful farmland. But we've always known we would want to build our house one day.

The house that's on it is not our ideal home and I know your principal is if you don't love it.

You know, maybe you can consider selling it. And so that's kind of where we are.

The house we bought was for $190,000. It was a deal.

The house and acreage.

You got sir. That includes the $125,000.

So the house and the 125 acres was $190,000.

Yes sir. I got you. I'm catching up. Okay. What is the $439,000 in debt?

$250,000 is what is left of my husband's medical school.

So your husband's a doc?

He is and he's a great doc. Great. What's he make?

Currently, he makes $325,000 annually. $16,000 a month is his base salary.

Okay. And you have $250,000 medical and I assume you have this mortgage

or something owed on the land, is that right?

It is $162,000 outstanding. So is that the two debts?

That's it. That's the whole thing in there.

No, sir. It's $195,000 for a car. It's actually the 10-day payoff. I just called today

and the 10-day payoff is $195 on our Honda Odyssey. We have five boys.

They just fix and under. Is that your only three debts?

$8400 left on a stall meal for a total of $439,000.

$439,000. And all of this was purchased after you decided to get or before you started to

decide to get out of debt. I'd like to say that, but we got married in 2016 and that's when we

moved from Ohio to Kentucky and bought a house because the land was a steal and we had not yet

been convinced from the time you started getting out of debt that you buy a Honda Odyssey in a

stall meal. No, not since we've got this. Not since we've got this.

Okay, so you're not falling off the wagon. You're just plowing through past mistakes.

Yes, sir. We want to get out of this stuff and we're ready to sell everything.

You make $25,000. You've already paid off $300,000.

I don't know what I mean, and your mortgage is a portion of this, mortgage is maybe step six.

So I mean, I think you can be debt-free with that great income. You should not have any

personal overhead to amount to anything. You pay off the stall meal and the Odyssey pretty quick

and then let's tear into the medical debt and you should be done in a couple more years, shouldn't you?

Well, sir, I love that. But I'm my husband and I have been discussing this and we think that we

could get $450 easy out of our house if we sold it today. Okay, then where are you going to live?

And sell everything because we can sell the house for $450 if we put the offer for $500.

We can sell the stall meal for $30K. Okay. We can sell the dozer for $30K. We can sell our car

for $19.5 and buy a beater and I just and then we're like, where are we going to live with five

boys? Do we rent? Do we buy something for about $100 to $150 with whatever equity, with whatever

after we sell everything? You know what I mean? All the assets. I mean, I'm talking full

liquidation. Go, Dave Ramsey. Like, we're done. Well, you know, full Dave Ramsey is not necessarily

full liquidation. Okay. That's, you know, we're going to liquidate with wisdom and to accomplish the

goals with that and accomplish the goal you want to accomplish. But for sure, I'm selling a bulldozer

and a sawmill. No question about that in a heartbeat. And if you want to move, if you don't like the

property and you want to move, well, sure, you could move down and that's not as a temporary measure.

But then you're seeing there were three or 25,000 income as zero debt. The first thing you're going to

do, start stacking cash to buy into the piece of real estate, right? Right. Yeah. And that's okay.

But just think through where you're going to live and what you're going to do. Let's not do this

impulsively. I want to have a strategy. You know, okay, my desired feature is to be debt-free.

What must be true for me to get there? Well, I could sell everything. Where would I live in the

meantime? Okay. Well, what would I drive in the meantime? You got to solve for that. If you

solve for that and you're okay with the answer to those questions, then do it. But it's not the

only way out. You have a fabulously large income and you live in an area with zero cost of living.

Yeah. I've got a question. If we could just eliminate the debt, some generous person comes along

and pays off the debt. Would you want to stay on that property and build a really nice house where

you are now? No, sir. That's the downfall about the property. There's no other house state to build on.

Okay. Then shall see that to me is the ultimate on should you sell the house? Yeah. It's not because

of debt. It's because you're not going to stay there anyway. Yeah. So do it. So sell right. We

do. I love it. Listen, listen, I rented you a year but you're not going to stay there. Right.

No, I think she loves the strategy. Yeah, we want to build a house for sure. We want it. We want my

husband and I have a dream of building a business that's multi-generational impact where I boil

used to grow up into you and it could be a family family. Okay, that's so that land and this house

don't figure into the equation. True or false? That's true. Then sell it. Then sell it.

But that's that's different than that. That's different than it doesn't fit into the equation for

your future is different than I'm selling everything including every stinking thing I love and I'm

going to cry when I sell it just to get out of debt. That's a different that's a different answer.

And so you're not doing that. You're selling stuff. You're going to sell anyway because you're not

staying there. If you could if you win at the end of the game, you're not on that property.

And so sell it now and advance the piece around the board. That's what you're saying.

And yes, definitely sell the sawmill. I don't know if you sell a stupid car or not. Again,

you've got a $325,000 income. You ought to pay that car off a couple months and keep it.

All right. If you got it, since you got a tribe of youngins to run around in a haudicy with.

So I don't care. You make enough money for that to not be my problem.

But yeah, you get rid of the mortgage and the sawmill and whatever and the stew and the medical debt

hanging around your neck and you rent something for two years and you buy a big old piece of

ground somewhere for cash and then you start talking about how we can build a house on that ground

and you work your way back out of this and it's a five year plan. And three of those years are

probably going to be somewhat uncomfortable. We'll call them the adventure years.

Yeah. But with all those boys, five boys under that age group, they're going to tear it up anyway.

So just go rent, let them have some land, you know, get a ranch with plenty of rooms. And I love

this idea of now you've got this doctor who's got a huge upside zero debt. You're actually

really fortunate to be in this situation to have this land. Considering the mess you made.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I'm with you. Okay. Took a minute to catch up. I just want to make sure you're not,

you know, only doing this. And I do want people to get out of debt. And I do want you to sacrifice

to get out of debt. And I do want you to do this. But I want you to do it with a plan and with a strategy,

not just, you know, Dave Ramsey said, that's not a strategy. That's right. Okay. A strategy is I

want to be debt free for my family. So that I get control of my largest wealth building tool, which

is my income. So that I can invest and change my family tree and create a generational business.

That's exactly right. You know, you work through your so that's that's why you're doing it. And

yeah, I just want to get there as fast as I can. She's saying, well, do it. Sell it. And it's over.

Pull the plug on it. And by the way, put the go ahead and put the sawmill on the bulldozer under

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Are you sick and tired of working so hard and have nothing to show for it. I feel like a rat

no way old Dave run run run run run run run run get nowhere. Well that's normal. Normal's broke.

You don't want to be normal. You want to have a different plan than that. You don't have to live

that way. Our every dollar budget app will help you find the extra money in the margin to start to

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to have like us in your pocket walking around like me telling you what to do. The other amps

your personalities telling you what to do the whole time start every dollar for free in the app store

or Google play. Amber's in Kansas City. Hi Amber. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I

deserve. What's up? I apologize I'm hiring emotional. I am in the process of getting divorced

and I'm terrified I'm going to lose my home. I own this home with my daughter prior to getting

married. I had a hundred thousand dollars in here at 10th put down and without payment. So my

mortgage was 118,000 total after that and I met my husband and he got the mortgage in his name

only but my name's on the deed too and I found out that accidentally he had ran up a bunch of debt

on the house against the house and in loans and credit cards and the situation became very

dangerous so I got a no contact order in the judge ordered that he pay for X amount of dollars

for so long and he purposely did not pay on which got everything behind. So what did the judge say

then? The only we use that as a means to get him to sign a divorce like settlement. So you let

him off so he would go away. I know I didn't have a choice. Yeah you had a choice. He just chose

to let him off so that he went away. I don't blame you but that's what you chose. Okay so how much

is owed on the house now? Two hundred and fourteen thousand dollars. Right and what do you make of your

hand? Last year I made about 47,000 gross. Okay all right. I will my own business out of the home

and I have some units willing to help co-sign. No. And we get. You've already got a mask. You don't

need to make it worse. What's the house worth? Three hundred and fifteen thousand. Great. Okay. What other

debts did you take on to get rid of said deadbeat? Just when he put in on the house. So two hundred and

fourteen thousand. About yeah, about a hundred thousand because the mortgage was a hundred and eighteen.

Yeah but I mean you got a two hundred and fourteen thousand dollar debt now. On the three hundred

thousand dollar house you make forty seven thousand dollars a year. All right. How's your business

doing? Is it growing? Yes. How long has he been gone? He had to move out in July.

Okay and you're safe now, right? No. Why aren't you safe now?

Because she still comes on the property like you highly intelligent. You shut down my cameras.

Shut down shut down your what? Did you call the police? They won't do anything. You have a no contact

order. Of course they'll do something. You can't prove when somebody shuts down your cameras.

You can't prove it. What is your what is your business? I run the dogs. They care and boarding

business and I make a lot of money compared to doing social work. Which is what I did before.

Yeah. And this is what I meant to do because I've asked God. Okay. You know, listen, stop, stop a

second. Okay. You can't breathe because you're terrified. So we have to solve for

making sure that the abuser goes away or goes to jail. Otherwise you have to go away and

reset your life somewhere else so that you can breathe again. This is not sustainable. No one can

live in this stress. I know, but it's a process because I had it. He was drugging me and raising me.

And so I have stuff turned over to the police. But that was all before July. He's been gone since July

and the only thing since it's cut down cameras, right? Yes. Okay. So here's the thing. I can't move

because I move it. The same things will happen. So running from it isn't the answer. Why would

the same thing happen? Because he messes with the technology. Like the other day he started with

apparently you can get an app for a soundbar. Okay. Just wait a minute. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

Now we're starting to sound. Okay. Now. Okay. So you need to contact your attorney. You need to

contact the police and you need contact your pastor and you need to get some people in your corner.

It sounds to me like just in the few moments I've had with you that I'm talking to a terrified lady

who is dealing with extreme trauma. That's what it sounds like to me. It sounds like my little sister

has been through hell and now you're looking over your shoulder at every shadow. And I really

don't blame you for that because you've been through extreme stuff, kiddo. But it sounds like

you're probably going to have to go start a fresh life somewhere else. The good news is you know

how to care for animals and you can restart a business somewhere else while you work another

regular job to get that started and take your 100,000 out of this house and move cities and go

somewhere else. And let's just start fresh. You need a lot of distance between you and all of

these events and this moron. Do you agree with that? Yes, but and he's not he's not all powerful.

He cannot find you when you just simply leave. He's not all powerful. He's just a moron.

He works in IT. He's highly intelligent. You've told me that three times. I don't think he's highly

intelligent. I think he's a bully and an abuser and a twerp. He's trash. I don't care if he's

highly intelligent. He's not that intelligent. He's got you believing. He's omnipotent, but he's

not omnipotent. I'm not impressed. You need to leave and go get you a life kiddo somewhere.

You've got to do something different. This is not working. Staying there saying he's highly

intelligent and he keeps coming on your property and nobody can do anything about it is not a

solution to your problem. That exasperates the problem. So we have to throw some dynamite in this

situation as something has to change. And I don't give a crap if he thinks he's highly intelligent.

I can't kind of doubt it actually. I think he's got you believing a bunch of stuff that's

simply not true. He has completely got you what we call buffaloed. But I don't blame you. You've

been traumatized by the jerk. But I'm telling you, if I'm you, oh, wait a minute. Where are we

going? Where are we going? Okay. So, hey, Amber, do you not have family in the area?

No, they live a couple hours away. Good. Go be with family this week.

Pack your suitcase. Get your kids. Call your clients and tell them you can't keep dogs this week

and leave. You need some distance between you and this.

Does that sound like something smart to you? You're going to have to take some action steps.

Okay, you get because your dad and your brothers need to know this so they can beat the hell out of

this guy. Somebody needs to stand up to this guy, okay? And it's not you. Somebody needs to get

between you and this moron. And you got to get some distance between yourself. So you need to

check yourself into a domestic violence shelter or you need to go be with your family tonight,

right now. Get off the phone. Go pack your suitcase and go do that right now. You got to put

somebody in between you and this mess where you can get start to get your perspective back.

But you have some options. They're not pretty, but you have some options.

The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by YRIFI. If you're a private student loans

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might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Declan or Declan. Let me say that right.

I think it's Declan in California. I'm 20 years old on my own business and I'm on track to earn

$250,000 this year. The income isn't consistent yet, but it's growing. I have 100,000 in savings.

My only debt is $20,000 on my current car, which is worth about $25,000. I'd like to buy a

U-C8 Corvette for $50,000. I could pay cash, but I was thinking about financing part of it to

keep liquidity in my business and build credit. My business relies heavily on personal brand and

social media. Image and perception matter in a car like this could help with credibility and

marketing. I don't want to make a decision that looks successful, but is dumb financially,

is buying this car a reasonable move if I can afford it? We have a lot in that question.

Well, first of all, we want you to follow the baby steps. You've got 100,000 in savings and

your only debt is $20,000 on the current car. We need to pay that off or sell it. At that point,

then you're looking at the used Corvette for $50,000. The question, Dave, I bring you in here. I know

our formula on assets like a car, which is not actually an asset, depreciates. If it's in his

business and you can pay cash and it's for his business, is that a viable option there? Again,

assuming he's got the cash. I wouldn't buy it for that. But if you make $250,000 a year, can you

drive a $50,000 paid for a car? If you pay cash for it, you can do that. It's that simple,

but all this other crap about it. I'm going to look successful or whatever. Here's a good way to

look successful. Be successful. Yeah. And it feels like so much about how you look.

Instagram is not the real world. Even if you are making your $250,000 on YouTube or Instagram

as an influencer at 20 years old, that scares me. But if your income is steady at $250,000,

and above, you really think you're going to be making that. Can you drive for to drive a $50,000

a car? The answer is yes. If you pay cash for it. Right. And so yeah, I would sell my current car

and I would buy the Corvette for cash. But I wouldn't do anything about, I wouldn't rent all this

credibility and marketing and all that BS through your head. Just go, I want a Corvette.

I've got the money. And it's not a big percentage of my overall world. Yeah. And that's, you know,

our rule of thumb is if you can pay cash for it, it's not brand new and it's and all of the things

that you own with wheels and motors are less than half your annual income because they all go down

in value. Then, you know, it's okay to purchase that. And don't buy a new one unless you have a

net worth in excess of a million dollars. Those are our three contact rules on vehicles of any kind.

Cars, boats, pop up campers, whatever else. Right. And so yeah. So I was in a city. I'll just say

in Ohio last week. Doing working or traveling. And we went by, I guess that city they make

or maybe maybe the manufacturer or something of the of a RV's is there. I've never seen so many

thousands, thousands of RV's like parked all across the side of this hillside. Wow. It just blew

my mind. I thought that is a lot of rust. That is a lot. Because everyone those thinking things

are probably a hundred grand. Oh, yeah. And more. And there are thousands of them. Where are

those things going? It's just blew my mind. I felt like a country boy going to town. I'm like,

what are they doing with those things? But it's crazy. You know, it's funny. They're making money

on the financing of all of those. That's where the money is. I guess. Because man, there's sitting

out there in a field rotting down looked like to me. Oh my gosh. Really? I'm sure they're being

shipped to China or something. I don't know. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. So Declan, in business when you do

anything for appearances, you can write that down under the dumb collar. We don't do stuff for,

we do things that give return on investment in business and trying to appear to be something

is never a return on investment. Just be the thing. And then people will figure out that you

is the thing. Yeah. Like if you're basing all of your success on the car that you put in

social media, TikToks or Instagrams, you don't have to spend cash on that. I'd go rent a car

like that. That's where you start rationalizing. Yeah. Number of these cars. Music artists,

they've rent a jet for the day to do their video and it never leaves the ground. That's exactly

right. Like they had a jet. Such an illusion. So play the game and that's a fraction of the cost.

Yeah. Julie is in Houston. Hey, Julie, what's up? Hey, we're big fans. Thanks so much for taking

my call today. Thank you. Okay. Well, okay. I have a question about a specific long-term care

option. And this is so it's an indexed universal life insurance policy. No, it sucks.

Oh, and along to. Okay. So here's the back story is. So my husband and I are nearly 60. We're

pretty healthy. We're still. I'm still working. Husband, Sam, I retired. What's your next day?

College. We have about two million in mutual funds. No debt. Whoever's trying to sell this to,

you stay away from them. Okay. So we're getting a little money from an inheritance, about $100,000.

So that's what our question is. For 50 for $250,000 premiums, we could buy this thing,

you know, which of course, if we do get sick, as six years of a really good payout,

or we could just put it in with the rest of our investments. If I had three million dollars,

let me tell you, I'm 65, okay. Net worth of hundreds of millions. I am not. I'd have zero long-term

care insurance. I want to buy long-term care insurance for people. I want people that have a

million dollar or less net worth to buy long-term care insurance because a nursing home stay

is 100, 100 and a quarter a year right now. And the average time is 2.9 years.

Yeah. So you got a $300,000 exposure to what you got on average. You can self-insure that with

two million dollars. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just to self-insure it. I would not, I would just,

if he has to go the nursing home, and by the way, he will before you on average, 75% of the

ladies out live their husbands. Yeah. Well, that's the average. He'll be a beast in a nursing home,

so hopefully he will fix it. Yeah. Well, you know, or maybe it's long enough that the two million

is 10 million and you just hire somebody to live at the house and take care of him. Yeah. Okay.

That's kind of what we're wondering. I mean, it sounded good, but it doesn't, it isn't good. It's

a piece of crap. It's whole-life life insurance that you're pre-paying up front and then the

supposedly the cash value will cover your long-term care insurance. You've been much better off to

just invest the money and let the interest off the money by your own long-term care insurance.

But even better yet in your situation, you guys can self-insure through it. Yeah. Okay.

But long-term care insurance is excellent if you're over 60 and your net worths under a million,

million and a half. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. Okay. But that's, but never, never, never, never, never,

never use life insurance as an investment. One hundred percent of the time, those policies suck.

And this one sucks particularly bad. Index universal life is one of the worst products on the market

today. And it's only sold by those goobers and sell it. Everyone else in the financial world

looks at it and laughs at these morons like they are the payday lender of the middle class.

So again, if this is your financial planner pitching this, you need a new financial planner.

I don't know who's pitching this to you or if Charlie over at the church,

then you just need to distance Charlie to a no business with Charlie at the church.

If this is what the crap he's had pedals is, hope I wasn't unclear.

Just be careful at Charlie. He's not all smiles and handshakes, folks.

By the way, my favorite line of that is he would be a real bear at the nursing home.

She knows I got to get a nurse for my husband. He would terrorize the

large nurse ratchet.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds credit union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey,

your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality and number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Naomi is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Naomi. How are you?

I'm Pete. How are you doing, sir?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, first of all, I want to thank you for taking my call. I have $12,000 in it.

I have four credit cards and I also have a car loan and a person alone, some student loans.

The student loans right now are deferred. I currently have two jobs, three jobs,

five big new about 19 years. And then I have another job which I'm going to

choose and I make about $12,000 a year in a cash rate.

I do. Okay. So that's like $102,000 as you're income and you had at $12,000 in debt agreed.

Yes. Yes.

Okay, how old are you? I'm 40.

Okay. Are you single?

I'm single mother, yes. Of two.

How old are your babies?

one of them is 18 and the other one is seven. Okay. Alright. 18-year-old adding some income

to this equation. He's starting to win. He has a potential and he's seeking a full-time

job. Yeah. Come to be a man my son. Yeah. Because his princess warrior single-mom mother

has helped him get all the way to 18 and now he needs to not be a burden but instead be a blessing.

Okay. That's one thing. Okay. Cool. Alright. So it sounds to me like that you've been raising two

kids on your own in the Los Angeles market and this is a very tough road and you work your tail

end off and you feel stuck. That's correct. Yeah. Currently I'm going to by Friday I'm going to

have $9,000 in cash which I'm trying to pay a credit card off and I have my emergency fund

of $1,000 in Euro dollars in Euro money. Euro? Why is it in Euro's? I was stationed in Europe

and so I brought back some money that I had myself. So you were in the military? Yes. I am.

Are you are now? Yes. Okay. Thank you for your service. Okay. I would convert the Euro's to

dollars immediately. We're not we're not playing foreign currency. We're just trying to have a

thousand dollars. Okay. That's correct. And then the nine then I'm going to list all of your debts

smallest to largest and I take it your credit cards are probably your smallest debts.

Correct. That is correct. Yeah. So list them smallest to largest. We're going to pay minimum

payments on everything. Cut up the credit cards and get in a tag mode. How much do you owe on the

car? On the car I owe 30,000. That's a lot. Okay. And the student loans are they on hardship deferral?

They're under for good. And they're 30,000. That's where they need to be right now. Okay.

So that's 60 of your 112 is those two things in the credit and then you got a personal loan.

What is that just at the bank or credit union or to an individual? It was through the credit union.

Okay. All right. Ouch. And how much is it? That one is I believe the is 20 24k. Okay. All right.

So here's what I would do if I were in your shoes. It sounds like you've kind of got this on

the run a little bit. At number one 18 year old starts bringing some money to the table and at

least carries his own weight. No pun intended. Okay. Number two, we're going to list our debts

smallest to largest and attack them in that order after we've converted the 1000 euros into 1000

dollars. Okay. And that's probably going to give you a little extra to throw on the other

thing. So we're going to list the debts smallest to largest attack them in that order.

We're going to get on an every dollar budget. Every dollar needs to behave. What you have tried

to do and have successfully somewhat successfully done is survive. And while you were surviving,

you just thought I can work hard enough and be real careful and everything will work out. And it

didn't. You work hard. You work like a crazy person. You're a hero. You took care of your kids.

You're amazing. I'm so proud of you. So are you getting child support on the seven-year-old?

No. Why? He looks about almost, I always think about a hundred and fifty two hundred and seventy

thousand. And he pays zero child support. Why? I don't know. Well, I think you should

drop by the Jag office and say, gentlemen, I need some help. I think Jagel helped him pay.

They're really good at it, by the way. Okay. Like tomorrow. Yes. Yeah. Give all of his information.

Say seven years. He's never paid a dime in child support. And you know, that's what Jag's for.

They're for you. They're going to help you out. They'll take care of this. It'll be amazing how

efficient they are at it. Because in the military, they do it all the time. So you guys, you know,

take care of you and you should be taking care of. All right. So that'll help too. And I'm

going to that every dollar budget because I want every dollar to behave. I want you to pretend like

I hired you. And I'm paying you a hundred thousand dollars a year. And your job is to get these bills

paid. And you would, you would be very detailed if I told you that, right? That is correct. Yeah. And

so I'm going to give you every dollar and get you signed up for it. Because it's going to guide

you on what to do. And it's going to help you lay out every dollar has an assignment for the whole

month. And I just want to commend you. Can I mean to fight what she has fought for all these years.

You know, as a single mom, working her way through this, it gets lonely and you get tired. Yeah.

Well, you got three jobs and that didn't even count the waitressing job. So you get three and a half.

So you're not going to be stopped if you've got a plan. But two things, I want to circle back to,

you need to take this deadbeat to the law and make his life so miserable. He starts coughing up

money. Don't get weary on that. Take that warrior mindset to that. The second thing is,

if you have any equity in that car, do you have any equity at all in the car? Are you upside down?

I should have equity. How much? It's a Toyota. I don't know. All right. Here's what I want you to do.

Okay. Look it up because that nine thousand dollars, if you've got some equity, pay that car off.

So I mean, sell the car rather. Excuse me. Sell the car. Take what's left over that nine thousand

and get yourself a functional car because that car payment of yours is pretty big. I'm guessing.

What's your monthly car payment? That's seven forty. Yeah. Ma'am. That's a eighty five. That's nine

thousand dollar raise essentially. Sell the car and use that cash to get a functional car.

It's a pain down the credit cards. I agree with Ken. I just want to get you some more breathing

room quickly. So let's pretend that the thirty thousand dollar car is where are thirty thousand

dollar debt is and the car is worth thirty five. If you can sell it, get that five in your hand

plus this nine and buy you a fifteen thousand dollar paid for a car. That's a nice car. Yeah.

And now you got no car payments. Zoom, zoom. We just kicked this thing into high gear. Yeah.

And because that car is seven hundred fifty bucks. Cheers. Wow. Yeah. That's good catch, Ken. I

walked right by that. I missed it.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, dang, that must have been so

hard. I can never do that. And I tell them sure you can. It's a short term sacrifice for a long

term gain. But do you know what's really hard working your whole life and never having anything to

show for it? Never having the long term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time.

And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your

situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it like our every dollar

budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your

debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short term sacrifice, long term gain.

Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the every dollar app and start for free today.

One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax

pro in your corner that you can trust. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make your

situation for your small business or whatever. Yeah, save some big money on taxes.

And if you've had big life changes in the past year, yeah, you need to think about that as well.

A divorce, a death, a new big job, something big happened. Good or negative, you need to

tax pro in your corner. And especially you're running something complicated or a small business.

RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the

Ramsey team and are Ramsey trusted. David is in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, David. How are you?

Hey, David and Ken. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, first of all,

15 years ago, I was I was in a bad place, a lot to debt, more than I care to admit. But thanks to

you and your team over the past 15 years, my wife and I are now in baby step seven. I've been on

the debt free stage. I've been on the cruise, been to your place and we're baby steps millionaires.

Why? Because proud of you. All you guys have done. Good for you, man.

On the way, along the way, we've raised our kids to be Ramsey kids, I guess. And so my oldest son,

he's been married now for about a year. He and his now life have been through the high school

curriculum. They went through financial peace university during their marriage counseling.

No debt, cash load college vehicles, everything. No debt. And they've just gotten approved for their

first mortgage to buy home, very reasonable house. And they've got $30,000 to put down. And the

mortgage lender kind of threw us a curveball the other day. And she told them if they would take

$5,000 and put it in an account and use that to secure a $5,000 note and pay it for six months

that would give them some credit and potentially lower their rate by up to 1%.

And you're being overcharged. If you go to Churchill mortgage and they do manual underwriting,

there will not be a difference in the rate. Okay, well, we're actually waiting on Churchill's

proposal to come back now. Yeah, they can do manual underwriting. No credit required.

You're saying the kid has absolutely no credit at all. Zero credit. Perfect. Yeah. Okay, so is he

had a job? He does. Yeah, they both have a job for a year now, both have good jobs that

she's a school teacher. He's an engineer. They've been paying rent during that time. They have,

and they have $30,000 to put down. Yes. There's no right difference whatsoever.

So the mortgage lender that you have is incorrect for whatever reason. I'm going to be gentle.

Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, that's good. He, like I said, she has applied at Churchill and she's

waiting on that, that information to come back, but that kind of threw me a curveball when I heard

that. Yeah, hang on. I'll have Christian pick up and we'll make sure our team holds their hand

and connects them into Churchill because I don't want them to do this other deal. I want them to

get a good manual underwriting mortgage loan. We do it all the time and have for decades with no

credit at all. There is no interest rate difference. And so this lady at a minimum is not just

does not know how to do it. And so you need to get away from her. It's that simple. So Ken,

George Campbell and Whitney bought their first house that way. John Deloney bought his house that

way. Lots of other people, thousands and thousands and thousands of others, but a lot of mortgage

companies don't know how to do it. And I don't know what kind of hook or crook this lady's trying

to pull here, but that's scary right there. They don't want to do it either. They don't want to

screw with it. But yeah. And so what manual underwriting is before... See, I got my real estate

license in 1978. Before there was a FICO score, the banks actually used to do an analysis of the

individual in detail to figure out if they could pay the freaking bill. It's called underwriting.

And so they would send out, when I would write a contract in 1978, 1982, they would mail out a

VOD, a verification of deposit to the local bank. And the bank would verify that the $30,000

is in the bank. They would mail out a VOE, snail mail, a verification of employment to their

employer. And he would send back, this how much they make is how long they've been working here.

And they would mail out to any creditors at landlord and get a record on how they

actually paid their rent. That's called underwriting alone. And you're doing an analysis of the

person's life to see if the indications are that they can pay the bill. You have their income,

you have their track record with their rent, you have their down payment verified, you do all of

those things. And that's how loans used to be written. And then along comes FICO. And FICO is like

a monkey can make this loan. It's like they look at the number and go, you've got the loaner,

you don't have the loan, right? And so the mortgage business has been dumbed down to where people

like this lady is telling this guy to go get a stinking secured loan with her company. So she can

create a credit score. So she can go, oh, got the loan. It's exactly what has happened here.

Yeah. And so it's just dumb. But this is the ridiculous thing of FICO. And so

FICO has got way too much power. It's not that accurate to start with. And so but Churchill

mortgage and a few other mortgage companies know actually know how to do manual underwriting,

which doesn't matter if you don't have a FICO score. This kid does not have a FICO score because

you can't have a FICO score if you don't borrow money. It's the only way you can get a FICO score.

FICO score measures how much money you borrowed, how you paid it back, what type of money you

borrowed and how quickly and all that kind of stuff. It's all it's an I love debt score.

So if you don't love debt and you haven't borrowed any money and you don't have any open accounts

for a year, your FICO score will just disappear. I haven't had one for 30 something years.

And so apparently I'm not here. I'm not real. I'm a hologram because I don't have a FICO score.

What? Yeah, look at me. I like cash for stuff. It's crazy. And so that that's go to a more

gauge company like a Churchill mortgage that can do manual underwriting if you have no credit,

zero credit. Now if you got bad credit, that's a different problem. Like you haven't paid your bills

on time for two months or two years, you got a different issue then. But zero credit is a wonderful

place to be and you get the exact same rate as someone with a stupid enough to have an 800 FICO

score, which means you paid the bank sometime or another hundred grand in interest because you've

been paying and paying and paying and paying and paying and paying, playing their game, playing

an I love debt score game. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And that's what people get into. So

this kid is second generation and doesn't have a FICO score. That's so cool. It's cool. Well,

I mean, again, dad starts paying attention to the Ramsey ways and we raised up in that 15 years

later. Some of that sticks, right? He's a millionaire. He's a millionaire. So the son gets it.

But see, this is the whole thing that you mentioned the word game. It is a game. These banks,

they understand what they're doing. They need you paying interest. That's where they make

their money. So it's a game. So we're going to create this system that everybody needs to play ball

by. Diana's in San Francisco. Hi, Diana. How are you? Oh, I'm doing great. Thank you for taking

my call. I think you guys are terrific. Thank you. How can we help today?

I'm 79 years old. I have no debt except for my house. I owe 125,000 at less than 3%.

I have $96,000. I've heard you speak of stock market and mutual funds. And I understand the four

ways you put in. I'm wanting to know actually if I can do something like that with what little I

have. But my initial question is gold silver. And you have coin. You have solids. You have paper.

How are you feeling about gold silver? Hi, buy my investments. Diana based on track record.

In the track record on gold over the last 50 years, it's earned about 3% of your average.

Meanwhile, it takes you on a roller coaster ride that makes you want to throw up.

But the average is out about 3%. So I don't own any gold except some cuff links.

That's the only gold I've got or silver. And so I think I'd probably sit right where you are. If

you want to move a little bit of that into some mutual funds, you could be very calm and very

careful and learn a lot about it before you do it.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey show is going on tour. And this is your chance to be

more than just a listener. You get to be part of the show. So here questions ask live and experience

the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver,

Phoenix, and Anaheim with a limited number of seats in each city. So last fall, we completely

sold out in 72 hours. So do not wait. Get your tickets at ramsey solutions dot com slash events

or by clicking the link in the show notes.

Good friend of ours just dropped by to talk about his book restored. Chris Brown is a pastor,

author, speaker, radio personality, church leadership expert. He planted a church here in

Columbia, Tennessee just south of here just a few years back. I spoke over there yesterday.

Thousands of people coming out. It's an incredible young church exploding. It's kind of like,

it's kind of like going to a youth conference. A lot of people. A lot of fun. The praise and

worship is a blast. It's a lot of fun. Anything but boring. And Chris and Holly have been friends of

ours for 20 years. Chris was on our speaking team here for a while. So me and Ken and Chris have

shared the stage many, many times and shared airplane seats for that matter. A lot of a lot of

hours flying around all over the place and working together. But the book is restored transforming

the sting of your past into purpose for today. And Chris Ken and I of course know your story. We've

heard you tell the story many times from stage and heard you walk through what God has done in

your life. But was there a specific event in your life that made you want to tell this story now?

Actually, it was a story from from Ben Ramsey Solutions. It was a story of my first time I ever

spoke at Catalyst that conference back in 2015. I was probably my first big event and we had a time

where we got in a board room and we dissected the talk in front of the board. And it was super,

I was super stressed out about it. And we dissected it and I was talking a little bit about my past,

but I was not peeling off the layers and I was not vulnerable. And someone spoke up in the room.

I won't mention anybody, but his initials are DR DR. He spoke up and he said, hey Chris,

people are going to see you on that stage and they're going to perceive something like a silver spoon,

kind of guy who's always had it right. And you need to be more vulnerable. And I was scared to kind

of pick that scab of a traumatic childhood and some really bad things that have happened in my life.

And it was that moment I realized that I need to be more vulnerable and more honest about my past.

And to steward it. Of course, we are all like big huge fans of stewardship and love to

raise the banner of stewardship all over the place. But one thing that we need to steward,

all of us, and those of you listening in is we need to steward our past and steward what's

happened in our past so that we can have purpose today with that with that pain.

Yeah, you know, you know our audience well, Chris. You know some of the emotions. You know

the stories all too well. And inevitably there are a lot of people right now watching and listening

to you. And they're in some deep pain. You know, maybe some relationship stuff that is causing

to make financial decisions that are causing more pain. Whatever it is to the person who is in the

middle of it feels almost like it's unbearable. What would you say to them? Yeah, and actually a lot

of the book I kept this audience in mind because being on this show is a call after a call of mistakes

of shame, of regret, of guilt, of money mistakes, relational mistakes. I would say the goal is that

we would take our pain and it would turn into somebody else's hope. I want someone to read this

story and read the things that have happened in my life. It's the same thing with you with your

bankruptcy. We hear what happened when you came out of the bankruptcy and it gives people hope

of, you know what, if he can get out of that hole, then I can get out of the hole that I'm in. And so

I think Proverbs 1312 says hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of

life. And so the goal is to just like the mission statement here is to inject hope in the people's life.

And if you're listening in today and you've made some mistakes, I love this line when you're

speaking, you said, who hears ever made a mistake in your life? And then everyone goes, you know,

raise their hand. You know what that makes you? And you say 13. You know, we've all made mistakes with

money. And so that would be my, my, my prayer is that everybody listening in would say, hey, yeah,

I have made a mistake. I can own it, but I want to steward it and maximize it for future. I want to

inject hope into someone else's life. And sometimes the mistake you made, and sometimes it was a

mistake other people made. I mean, yeah, the trauma and your childhood is not your fault. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the situation around parents that were screwed up and family situation that was just

functional and all that kind of thing. And it leaves you without food or it leaves you without

shelter or it leaves you without comfort. And that's not that you're a victim of that. But it's still

something, it's still a part of your story and it still has value. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you met you

used the word victim. And of course you guys have all heard it before. We can have a victim's mentality

or a victor's mentality. The sting is going to be there in your past regardless. So it's what are

you going to do with it? Are you going to suck the nutrients out of it and make sure that you

use it and maximize it and leverage it for me. I'm a believer. I'm a faithful person. So for

me, it's leveraging it for the kingdom, leveraging it for eternal impact. But man, all of us who've

made mistakes, those have made mistakes of money. Take what you've learned, the principles you've

learned and then help your neighbor help somebody in your class, help somebody in the workplace.

And that that's what the whole book's about is to like leverage whatever's happened in your path.

You can't change it whether it's happened to you or you did it to yourself and maximize that

for the kingdom or maximize that for a maximum impact here on this earth. The book is restored

and transforming the sting of your past into purpose for today. Chris Brown is our guest,

local pastor, friend of ours, and a member of our team in the past. And we've gotten to work

together all these years. So one of the things that people ask all the time since we're people

to faith and they ask you the same thing as a pastor, I'm sure is, okay, if I'm in the middle of this

stink, maybe I caused some of it, maybe some of it was brought on me by other people,

either way I'm in the stink, where's God in the stink? Yeah, you know, the world, the Bible says,

and I believe it's a Matthew 7, I believe it just says, there will be troubles in this world.

But Jesus says, but I have come, take heart, I have overcome the world. And so we do have to know

that there is evil, there is darkness in this world. So things are going to happen to you.

And we have a responsibility to be the light in the darkness. Have you heard it before,

a thermostat or a thermometer? We are to bring the light and we're to stay close to Jesus. So whatever

you, whatever you're struggling with today, and you just need to know that Jesus is right there

with you, that's been huge for me. To know that my hope is not just in wishful thinking,

but my hope is rooted in the promises of Christ, a hopeful expectation of a better tomorrow based

on the promises and the character of Jesus. It's just a big difference between that and hopeful

thinking. You know, I've run into so many people that verified the same experience I had 30 something

years ago at the darkest of moments. Like I see absolutely no way out and I have this

strange piece anyway. It's like, this does not even make sense that I have less anxiety and I

have no idea how I'm going to get out of this. And what it's going to look like. But here I

sit at the bottom with a baby and a marriage hanging on by a thread bankrupt and I have no idea

what all this is going to happen. Of course, but I remember distinctly sitting there having this

piece that passes understanding. Yes. Yes. It's just and it's strange and I think that's God just

showing up and going, you're going to be okay. And even if your brain doesn't tell you that,

it just soaks through the rest of your body and the rest of your body goes, for some reason,

I think I'm going to be okay. Chris, I know you're right about this in the book and your

story is very powerful and very excited about our audience checking this out. But one of the things

that we humans have to face in the process of healing is dealing with shame. Shame is such a powerful

emotion even years later. How did you unlearn shame if I could word it that way or what would be

your response be to someone who's just kind of wallowing in some shame? Yeah, I think you shame is

I think it's a gap between your expectations and what actual is reality. So I think for all of us,

we just need to understand that we are going to make mistakes. So when you make one, you're not shocked.

It's just it's not if you're going to make a mistake. It's when and how big is it going to be?

Because we are fallen humans. Romans 3.23 says that all of us have fallen short of the glory of God.

And so for me, that that fell off me when I'm like, don't be surprised when you make a mistake.

Also, the fact that we learn from our mistakes and that really helps us in the future and builds

our character. So that fell off me really, really fast that way. And then anytime that you're helping

other people, it helps reduce the shame because now you've leveraged something out of it. The

Bible says in Proverbs 11.25, those who refresh others themselves are refreshed. And so for me,

I've used even my bankruptcy that happened in the recession in 2007, 2008. I've used that to

take biblical principles that I've learned from Dave and learned from Ramsey Solutions.

And I've tried to like just maximize everything I learned at a clawed and clawed out of bankruptcy

to be successful with money again and try to try to restore that shame. So the refreshment now

just trumps the shame. Let's go. Pastor Chris Brown, we're proud of you. Thank you. We love you.

Glad you're glad you stopped by again today. You're welcome anytime. The book is restored.

Transforming the sting of your past into purpose for today. Be sure you check it out.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems

and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether

you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast,

simple and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

Our scripture today, Proverbs 16-8, better is a little with righteousness than great revenues

with injustice. Albert Einstein said, try not to be a man of success, but rather try to become

a man of value. Ooh, there you go. Felicia's in Chicago. Hi, Felicia, how are you?

I am so well, Dave. It is a beautiful day and I'm on the side of the grass, so I am crazy in the

world. I love it. I love it. How can we help? Alrighty, so I am a 23-year-old blue collar

homeowner from the Midwest. I'm in a pretty, I'll say, uniquely blessed financial situation that I

generally find many resources. I'm just how to navigate. So from age 18 to now, really, I guess,

I made a lot of really dumb financial decisions. I wrapped up about $15,000 in credit card debt,

thought of a brand new car in 2021, got under water and payments, and I even took out a yet

consolidation load for most credit cards. You did all the stuff. I did all the stuff. Yeah,

they say you make up for the mistakes you make in your early 20s and your later 20s,

I'm doing it now. But I kept using the cards on top of paying my mortgage and at worst, I was over,

I want to say just over $25,000 in consumers. So in November 2025, my mom passed away from cancer

and the last, my sisters and me, the beneficiaries of her life insurance policy. When I used that money

to completely wipe out all of my debt. Including your house? No, I still have my mortgage. I'm sorry.

Okay, everything. So you're debt-free except the mortgage and you make what a year? Yes.

I make just about a little over 80,000 a year. Good for you. Okay. Your question is what? Thank you.

So I guess my question is that just how should someone who just escaped his debt manage money

responsibly when they've never had a savings before? I just saved my first $2,000 and I kind of feel like

a little kid and your mom just gave you a $10 bill, you know? It's like that kind of things and all

that. First and foremost, I like, I would use the story that is your life as my motivation. Okay.

In other words, if I misbehave with money again, that is bringing shame to the legacy that my mom left

me. Sure. I don't want to disappoint her if I'm you. Right. I never thought of it like that. That is

a fantastic way to look at that. So when you look at it and say, I've got to do this because

mom got me cleaned up this time. There's not going to be another one of those if I screw up again.

And so I'm going to I need to honor that memory, cherish that gift and the way to say thank you

for it is to be a grown-up going forward. Now, then once we say that, we say, okay, how do we do

anything? Well, it starts with a plan. I mean, if you want to get in the car and leave Chicago and

you say, I want to go to Florida, you don't just start driving. You actually load a map

called on your GPS and it starts to give you a step-by-step first when you leave Chicago, you're going

to go to Rockford and then you're going or whatever and then you're going to go to and then you're

going to go to and if you keep doing and then you're going to go to, you'll look up and you're in

Florida. And so if Florida is wealth, what are the steps? What's the what's the what's the map

look like to wealth from where you are? And so we're going to lay out a game plan. That's a budget

and we're going to give you every dollar and give you a trial run on it where you start where you

take this app and you download it and you take your income and I want you to tell every dollar

of your income what to do as if it was your job to manage money for you incorporated.

It's your job now to be an adult, not a child and manage money responsibly for you incorporated

and you have to report to your boss. You have to look and turns out your boss happens to be in your

mirror. Okay. So your job is to manage money for you because you make too stinking much money

and you got this wonderful one time get out of jail free card and you can't screw this up.

So I've got to make this money behave as you said I've got to be responsible and I love your

attitude. I think you're awesome and I think you're going to be able to do it. I talk to some people

sometimes and I can't tell if they're going to do it or not. I think you're actually going to do it.

I appreciate it. Thank you so much. And listen, let's get gazelle intense in the baby steps.

You know them well. So you are on your way to fulfilling baby step three, right?

So what's the target? Is it three months expenses? Is it six months? What are you going to do?

Yeah, write down a number. Write down a number and just chunking money out of your income to get

there. That's right. And then once you get done with that, now it's 15% of that income and we're

going to start investing for your future and at 23, you're going to be a multi-millionaire.

If you say 15% of your income with an $80,000 income, you're going to have 10 to 20 million

dollars when you get to 65. Oh, that is so hopeful. Oh, my goodness. That's the gift your mother gave

you if you're a grown-up. If you're a child, you'll be broken living on social insecurity.

So choose well. I sure will. All of that is fantastic. You got to get on. I'm proud of you. You can do

this. So lay out a written game plan and then use the money that you find in the budget to walk

right up those baby steps as can indicated. That is perfect for you. And we're going to do it all

in mom's memory. All to honor the free get out of jail, get out of jail free card that she gave

me. And I get I get I got a clean slate. I get grace. I get the chance to start over. I get a

do over. Remember playing football in the back yard. You get a do over. Oh, love do overs. You

know, that's what this is. She got to do over. Man, she gets another shot. That's so cool. Ben is

in Austin, Texas. Hey, Ben, what's up? That other than we deserve, what's up?

All right. I am. Things are going on financially. Two years ago, what we're going to do.

Separation comes across your feet to help me out at one point. A friend gave me a loan for $26,000.

Good. The backups. It's this has been the most expensive thing in my life. That was originally

backed up against my 401k. And he said, look, you know what? You come March, go ahead. And if

we need to do that, go and typically that cash positive, unless a bunch of legal stuff comes

up and then all the positive that I was goes out the window. So if you have my question, cash

cash out 401k and paying that off or they're finding some personal loans, you know, that's

upgraded so far. So there's other things that will end up costing you next to $5,000 over the

children. So if I cash out my 401k, what do you make? 110. Are you past the divorce now?

No, sir. We're still on the thick. Okay. So how are you going to cover the future legal phase?

That's that's part of the issue. I am currently.

Um, so this guy loaned you $26,000 and he wants it back before the drama is over.

You know, when when he rented, uh, it was the deal was he would have it back by March.

Yes, sir. And what made you think you were going to have $26,000 by March?

You know, honestly, sir, at the beginning of it, well, a couple of things. One,

I thought it was going to be net positive enough to pay off most of it.

Net positive on what? Well, so, sir, typically I'm making, I'm net positive $2,000 a month.

Oh, you're talking about your income. You were going to make enough income to pay back by March.

When did he make the loan? Yes, sir. Uh, September of last year.

Well, you're not going to make $2,000 from September to March at $2,000 a month?

Absolutely. So so initially, the plan is I wasn't going to be able to pay off the

$26,000 by then. Um, but I was going to pay off a lot of. So, um, and to be honest,

sir, I, I was, I need to pay the lawyer and that was, that was where we're going to pay the next

lawyer. Uh, yeah, this is a mess, dude. All right. So I would borrow money to keep from

cashing out your 401k because it's less interest to pay your friend off. And you guys got a

slow down and do, do a little math here before you do these deals, son. I put this hour of the

Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember,

there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of

Peace, Christ Jesus.