Can the Browns defense shut down the high-powered Jaguars' offense, building a winning culture & rotation concerns

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6:16We are going to be on Channel 3WKYC. I will say this. I think that a lot of people are underestimating what it is to lose a guy like Alex Wright. I think that this is going to come to this. If you said to me that the Browns were able to hold down the Jacksonville drag wires, I wouldn't look at Denzel War. I wouldn't look at Carson Swaycher and I wouldn't even say it was Jared Burst. The guy that has to step up this year is Mason Graham.

7:22Up front, the Cleveland Browns wanted to get a pass rush. This has to be his year. This has to be his year. I think Mason Graham was a disappointing guy. I think Mason Graham was a disappointing guy. I think Mason Graham was a disappointing guy. I think Mason and Mollie Collins were both yesterday in the Browns locker room just about creating pressure and pressure from the interior and what that can do for defense and when you crash a pocket from the middle, a quarterback has nowhere to go.

8:30Do I think that they can keep them in the game? Sure. Do I think that they can win them the game? I think they're going to have to do no. I think that this defense would struggle just losing miles. I think it would probably regress from last year just because of the nature of football from year to year. When you combine the loss of miles with the loss of Jim Schwartz with... Yeah, I look right at injury. There's going to be some regression with this defense this year. I'm curious to see Mike Rootberg comes from a defense that brought a lot of blitzes last year in Atlanta. I think they were top two, top three in Blitz rate. Schwartz liked the blitz but not as much as Atlanta did. So, Root and Berg bring that over. How much of the Browns going to pressure? Not even necessarily get them on the ground. Can they create pressure and speed him up without compromising the secondary?

9:30That's what I want to see from a defensive side. Do they create pressure? How do they create pressure? Where do they bring it from? Obviously, of course, number one. How can you create turnovers? Can you force Lawrence into bad throws and get your offense? I believe it's really going to struggle. Can you set them up on some short fields and some advantageous positions? You know, I think it's going to be very hard for the Browns defense to keep them in the game. I'm very gloom-and-doom to start this season. Just because I just think the offense is going to be for the quarterback and the offensive line. I'm so concerned. The flip side is if the Browns turn it over. Yeah, you're putting your defense in. Now, the one thing that I mentioned this yesterday, the Jaguar's offensive line on paper is not great. They're the biggest weakness on their offense. We know they're loaded with talent in the passing game. Running game will see. I mean, Tutin was pretty good last year. As a rookie, we'll see what he is this year. They've got what's his name?

10:30Oh, God, I forgot they were the running back. Chris Rodriguez. Who's a nice player? I think Amira Dula. He's still in the lead. Let's think down and may not play. But anyway, they've talked to guys there. And so they're not superstars there. And if you could get shut down their running game and maybe get them to be one dimensional, even though they're really good at that one dimension, that's the chance. If they can't get consistent pressure on the quarterback, they're going to get blown out in this game. It's that simple because although the Browns secondary is, or they start, you know, the Denzel Ward and Tyson Campbell are good, the Jags have a lot of weapons in the passing game. You know, I think Liam Cohen's really good too. Yeah, and they've got Parker Washington who emerged last year. You got your Kobe Myers. You got Brian Thomas Jr., who had a disappointing season. Like his disappointing season is a decent season for what's been a Browns receiver. And that was a disappointment after his rookie year. Plus, we don't know about Travis Hunter.

11:30That would have led the Browns last year, 700 yards and two touchdowns. Yes, definitely. Plus, you know, how they going to use Hunter? They got a decent tight end. So, I just think there's a lot of weapons. So, the Browns only hope is to take advantage of a Jags online that might be a little shaky. And to get Trevor Lawrence out of his comfort zone, that's the hope to keep this game competitive. And I don't have a ton of faith that's going to happen. The forecast is 90s, you need to be high. And the problem that you have is for defensive linemen in the first month of the year, especially in the first few weeks, you're dealing with 90s. It's still in this inflow. Right. Right. So, what you're doing, you're dealing with guys who have not played a lot during the preseason. Right. Conditioning is not where it needs to be that you eventually, eventually will work their way into some sort of shape. But the problem with that is this. When you have those issues in your tire, you're going to expend a lot of energy because your adrenaline is going to be rushing. Yeah. You're going to be amped up, geeked up, and then all of a sudden after that first drive, when that zaps your energy,

12:33you're looking around, and now you're in the sideline looking to get substitutions. My question is, who they bring it in. Yeah. Where is, who's tapping in on these? And especially if they're longer drives, 10 plays, 9 plays, things like that. You're sucking wind and all of a sudden, that's when your mental aspect takes hold. And you don't hear a call and somebody's walking right up and down the football field. I also think that we say this, I think the special teams has to be dominant. If the Brown one win, I don't think they can count on their defense to keep them in a game or win the game. They just don't have the horses like that. But if the Browns can get something on punt return, if they can block a punt, if they can make all their field goals extra points, I think that that may be a little hidden area where they can probably try to do something to win this game. Let me ask you this. Yesterday I asked Dustin, would you rather play, would you rather play 95 degrees or 25 degrees? And he said he'd rather play 95 degrees.

13:33Now he's a defensive back when, at the time, probably 200 pounds, you were not. You were a defensive lineman. I would guess the big guys would rather play at 25 or about, do I have that one? No, 25. Give me the 25 because in 25 degrees, we don't got sleeves on. We got a lineman rule, don't you? You can't come out here with those sleeves on. Like, most linemen is ready to go. 95 degrees, you're dealing with conditioning, you're dealing with cramping. And once you start cramping, it's over. Yeah. You can't get that back, Jason. You got to be hydrated prior to that. Getting IVs is too late in the process. Our trainers always say, you got to stay hydrated. You start staying hydrated, starting on Wednesday and Thursday, not on Sunday. I just think, but here's the thing. They got Millic Collins back. And there's another guy I'm looking forward to seeing. Come on, Michael Jr. Come on. Listen, you're a second round pick. Second round. So you got a lot invested up front. The Cleveland Browns did move Miles Garrett, but they have investments up front.

14:35Yeah. And those, these two guys, and now they're not rookies anymore. And Michael is in his third year. I'm looking forward to see what he can bring to the table. I know Zach Jackson has some thoughts on Michael. We'll talk to Zach a little bit later. When we come back, though, it's time. This is hot taking the day. What does he have to say? We'll find out next. The ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. Welcome back to the ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. Sponsored by Great Lakes Brewing Company. If you love their Dortmunder Gold Lager, but I'm looking for something a little lighter. Let me introduce you to the new Dort Light. It delivers the same great Dortmunder Gold Taste and Drink ability with just 90 calories and 2.9% alcohol. Experience Dort in a new light. Find Dort Light or Ever Great Lakes is sold. Please drink responsibly. All right, let's bring in Tyvis Powell, who has a hot take of the day for us. It's Rubber Hasen. It's the Browns winning 13 games this year. Is that it that I get it right or no? No, we talked them off the list days ago. I'm not going that crazy.

15:35But what? I know yesterday Nick Wilson has predicted that the Browns would go eight and nine. And I'm not going that crazy. And you know, it's predicted that the Browns would go eight and nine. And everybody was killing him. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. who's everybody? Ross Tucker. Oh. Kent Lynba. Eight and nine. conservatively so. I will kill him when I am on the show on Monday. But go ahead, Tyvis. What's your hot take of the day? So my hot take of the day was for this season, winning more games will be more impactful for the Browns future in a good way, then them losing and getting the number one pick. And I know you're like, that is ludicrous because with the number one pick, they can get the quarterback that they want. The reason I say that is I always talk about the culture and all of those things, but I'm not even going to dive into the culture talk with you because I've done that endless times. The reason why winning is more important than just getting the number one pick is

16:38that I don't necessarily fully trust the Browns ability to identify the quarterback position and develop the quarterback position. With that being said, I know you're like, well, you know, they've never really had an opportunity. Baker was the last time they had an opportunity to draft a quarterback at the top of the round and blah, blah, blah, blah. My thing is this, we, the trend, a little bit of the trend around the NFL is that these guys is getting taken early or struggling and it's taking them years. So somewhat so that guys are going to other teams and still having to try to figure it out at other teams. I say, let's skip that. Let's go ahead and just get one of them guys. If you feel like you don't have the answer currently on the roster right now, I feel like, or you can just take your door and use that as your, your plan anyway. You can do that too. But I feel like you can skip the, the hard years of trying to teach these guys because I don't think y'all do. I don't think they do a great job of doing that around the Cleveland area. Skip that. Get you one of them retray at ones that are ready. That was a former first round pick

17:41or so and then go about it that way. I think that that would be more impactful than trying to get a Dante Moore and Archmaning and having to deal with years to three, maybe four years of uncertainty. You know, if that's what happened with the last quarterback that we took with the first overall pick, who got paid by the way, shout out to you. I couldn't disagree with you more, Tyvis. I I should say that because there are things that you said there that I agree with. Like I don't trust the Browns to get it right. But the bottom line is if we, and if the Browns can't find the right quarterback and can't develop, then whether it's a veteran or a rookie, they're going to screw it up anyway. So what's the difference? And the truth is that the Sam Darnold situation is the outlier. It's not the rule. That's the, just like when people say, well, you found Tom Brady in the sixth round. Well, yeah, you did. But that's the exception, not the rule. Most of the good quarterbacks in the league were drafted in the first round. And most of them were drafted in the top 10. I'm not saying that you, I think you missed the point. I didn't say,

18:45I said, when you go find a quarterback, go get Mac Jones fits that category. Doesn't it? They'll be available next year. You think Mac Jones is going to be a better quarterback than all the guys in this draft? For next year, yeah. Well, who cares about next year? It's about winning the championship. I mean, if you, if you go next year, you, okay, let me ask you this. Let's say that our young guys go out there and ball and they're poised and they're ready to go for next year. All they need is a quarterback. Do you trust Dante Moore Archimanding or would you trust Mac Jones to come out? Because you are a guy that always say, oh, well, I'm going to go with the experience guy. So don't tell me that right now you would take Dante Moore and Archimanding over Mac Jones just and hypothetically speaking, I don't even have to be Mac Jones. Any former first round pick, tell me you wouldn't take that you wouldn't take the the veteran over the young guy. I wouldn't. I wouldn't because I don't think the veterans any good now. If you, and you told me the veteran with somebody that I liked more, maybe, maybe I could buy that for next year.

19:48See just proud. Yeah, right. I'm a C.J. Stravnex here. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Okay, but I think Mac Jones stinks. But yeah, but don't forget I said, man, I said any quarterback that fits the top 10 as a former first round pick. Yeah, Bryce Young. It could be Bryce Young. But in the long run, but in the long run time, it's like, rather have those other guys. But do you, you do admit that these young guys are struggling? Some of them are. Yeah. I mean, let's see, let's see another year, right? Okay. Jane Daniels had a great rookie year, bad second year, but he was hurt. I want to see him this year. Drake May was decent as a rookie. Was very good as a second year. Now, I personally think he's going to take a little bit of a step back. But you know, we'll see to you only played one game. Is he a. I got you. Drake May. Drake May. 100%. Yeah. 100%. I think so. Just ask. I think I think he's a tier two franchise player franchise. Mortimer.

20:49And I love the what's his name? Caleb Williams. Love him. I think he's going to be an absolute star this year. So it's okay. I'm trending in that direction last year. Opinix was a top 10 pick. Jay. Mark Arthur was a top 10 pick. That's a bad thing. I think Bo Nick's. Bo Nick's was in the top. He's not thinking about it. Exactly. Well, is that Wilson was a top 10 pick? Okay. But you can give the outliers. Most of the good quarterbacks were top 10 picks. Is it more hits or missing? I think it's 50. I don't know what the exact number is, but there's more hits on first round top 10 quarterbacks than there are. Yeah. Better out to find it at the top 10 than anyone else. Let me tell you why is it so hard? Why is it bad to get a retread top 10 pick? I don't understand. That's the part that most of them don't pan out the second time. You're gonna tell me that it has to be a top 10 pick. So if the Houston Texans open jumped on the phone and said we get you CJ shroud in the trade. Why is that bad? Why? Why not that? It depends. But it would mean if that's

21:52only happening if he now has had his third bad year in a row. So I don't know why it's bad time is is the contract situation. Like he's out of time. What do you do? What do you do with him on the contract? That's the only thing that would hinder me from doing it. Because if you tell me CJ shroud's available. Yeah, I would look at that for sure. I'm not saying we would I would do it. But I would absolutely ponder it. It would depend on the price and what kind of contract you'd end up with. And to your point, I get what you're saying. There are parts of what he's saying that I agree with. It depends on the set. I'd rather be the Browns next year in a situation to draft a quarterback that I thought could be the next superstar on the draft. However, in theory, if they're not in that position, let's say they end up with the 10th pick in the draft and there's only three quarterbacks. They all go off the board. Then I like on with your idea of that rather than what they're doing now. Yes, I like that. But I wouldn't. It wouldn't be my preference over getting a quarterback in the draft. Let me ask you this. The last time the Browns

22:54got the number one pick, they still got the they got the what people say the fourth or fourth best quarterback in the draft. I don't say it was for me. But you got him over Darnell still. I got him over Darnell for me. Yes. Okay. You got a behind Lamar and Josh. Okay, that's the obvious. Anyways, Laurie. So with that being said, right? Yeah. If you get the number, let's say you are Andrew Bering, you got the number one pick. Who would you take right now at the number one? Right now, I'm going to keep it 100 and say that I do not feel qualified to make the best pick. So I will trust. Who know? Who would you pick? I trust your opinion on it. Right now, more than I trust my opinion on it. So give me give me who you like the most right now. Divers. Me if I had the number one pick with the rounds. Yeah. I'm taking Dylan Stewart and I'll just slam. I'm taking a I probably out of the quarterbacks. I probably take down. Take more. I probably take down. Okay. That's fine with me. Well, let's listen. This was a nice conversation. Okay. Y'all not getting to the brass tax. Brass tax is this. Types, you said in an I agree with

23:59you to Cleveland Browns have not traditionally done a good opportunity. Good job of figuring out who the quarterback is and then developing said quarterback. The problem is now the reason you feel that way is because of what they're doing right now. That's a big part of it. You sitting here, you got you got young quarterbacks, but the Cleveland Browns is a man without a country. You don't want to go all the way young, but you don't want to give up on old quarterbacks. You always in the middle. You always got you a Jacobi Brisset. You're always trying to get a let's bring flacco back for another year. Hey, listen, what about Kenny Pickett? Can he be a dude? No, you should have played the young dudes found out what it was and then earned your bad record. And then everybody will see, hey, hey, should do it. It can you be good or not? Well, we gonna see because we don't play you 17 games. You better be healthy. And then if you take a L guess what everybody can do. We already seen it. You seen it. Now you could go into the next year's draft and make a proper evaluation. But the Browns are never making proper evaluations and you are correct. The problem is if you do take

25:05L's this year, that means your coaching stock is here. That means they coming for Andrew Berry. And that means when you draft another quarterback, are you telling me you starting him from day one? Because if you're trying to start him for day one, you're telling me you're getting three, four more wins. Mendoza came out here and broke the world apart, came more than got every single rep the last year and he tore the world up. It take time to develop quarterbacks, but you got to invest the time in order to see if you got one or not. Here's the thing I don't like about Tyve's hysteria is the Browns been trying to do that way for 27 years. They always have a better way to reverse engineer trying to find a quarterback when history has shown what Bull said. If you find one of the top 10, you have better odds than anywhere else. Twice, they've taken a quarterback at the top. They haven't had a quarterback in 30 years. And only twice. All these top 10 picks they've had. Twice, they've taken quarterbacks. Twice. And you know what? They went to the playoffs and both of them. Couch and Baker. Did I love Baker? No, I didn't. But the reality is he got them to the playoffs.

26:07So twice they did this and twice it worked. But the Browns want to keep reverse engineering some other way of Jeff Garcia or a fifth round. We're going to strike gold in the fifth round. No, you're not. You're not. Do it the way the rest of the league does it. Take your lumps, take them in the top 10. Are you sure to get it right? No, especially not here. But you're playing the odds game and the odds are better in the top 10 than anywhere else. Well, I like that. I like that. So my thing is, let's get to that quicker. So why we playing around with Deshant Watson. You're got to get your all come out. Give them a better chance to more games. I was filled with you said Jason for sure when you talk about the two, but then then you also there's the one time that they didn't do it. So it's two, you're telling two to one here. You know, they did it with Joe Flacco and the retreats as well. So that's probably what they'll point out there. I just to me, I think that winning is just more important. I just feel like

27:09it just builds the culture and all those things and it just is more impactful. I feel like it's more it's open because it's like free agents. Obviously, we talked about it at Lymphs there. Free agents don't want to come here. Nobody is thrilled to come to Cleveland unless there's a big price tag attached to it. But I think what would inspire somebody is if they see a winning team that's almost there, then they're the final piece. I think that's very motivating to people to be like, oh, you know what? All they need is me. You know, so that's why to me, I just feel like the winning team can do more for the organization than just a number one pick. But I do, I'm not naive to the fact that obviously if you get if you hit at number one and hit on the franchise guy, what that would do for the franchise as well. I just I'm just don't trust it right now. That's fair time is, but look at look at the Bengals. When no free agents want to play for the Bengals either, probably even less than the Browns because at least the Browns I've traditionally spent well traditionally with hasn't spent more money. Joe Barrow got there. Guys want to play with them, right? Yeah. You get a franchise quarterback. Guys want to play with them. I don't think whether they

28:13win six games or three games this year is changing hearts and minds of free agents. But if they get a quarterback and whether that's Dante Moore or whoever it is, if they get it right, I understand why we're all skeptical that they will because they don't. But if they finally get it right this time, that would change that would change everything. And Zach and I were talking this morning on my podcast like they finally have skill position talent on this team that a good quarterback could turn the fortunes of this team around quickly. But you're counting on you're counting on the rookie being good immediately. Well, some of you are. Yeah, I know how we say there most rookies on. No, you you. How do y'all feel? You know, everybody, I know how people feel about Dylan Gabriel, right? And Dylan Gabriel was six three. Would he be considered a franchise quarterback? I think so. I think you would. I think you would be too. And personally, I think Dante Moore is that.

29:19I think he's just a tall. Let's take it. Dante Moore. Let's go. Who's your guy? You like Dante Moore? I like Jeremiah Smith. I think it's Jeremiah Smith. What you talk about? Let's talk about. Let's just add one stat to this. Yeah. Last year, top 20 quarterbacks in the NFL in QBR. 17 refers around picks. Three were not. Who were the three that were not? Who was three? Yeah. Party. Jalen Hertz, a deck press guy. Yeah, it makes sense. Everyone else in the top 20 first drop pick. Yeah, opt in picks. Drake made top 10 staffer top 10 Mahomes, top 10 Allen, top 10 Daniel Jones, top 10 C. They stroueltop 10 Baker, Maple, top 10 Justin Herbert, top 10 Trevor Lawrence, top 10 Caleb, Williams, top 10 Jared Goff, top 10 and Sam Darnel, top 10. There you go. You didn't mention. Barrow Lamar Jackson. Well, those were Lamar is in there, but not top 10. Barrow was. Oh, yeah. Lamar was not. Those are just top 10. There was some other first.

30:22Lamar should have been top 10 Jordan loves first round pick, not top 10 Lamar first round pick, not top 10 Mac Jones first round pick, not top 10. I want to end the video to go back to the old days, but a running backs made the difference. There you go. I'm sick. I'm sick. All this quarterback. It's sick. Quarterback. Let's get back to the running back game. Run the ball. Sorry to cut you off, that is real quick. Before you go, give us a prediction for the game. The Browns game. Yeah. No, Ohio State. What are they doing? I'm not going to get a chance. That's good. That's good. Time is on tomorrow. Oh, time is on tomorrow. We'll do that tomorrow. It's safe for tomorrow. We'll do both games tomorrow. See you, buddy. See you, buddy. All right, man. Later. Thank you all for keeping me in the intro. I appreciate it. All right. We good talking with Tyvus is always good conversation. Coming up later, we'll talk about the Guardians taking an alley yesterday. When we return, Zach Jackson joins us next on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show.

31:22The Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show today is sponsored by Melisano's Fight Tip Cure. Coming up on September 18 to 19 to downtown Cleveland, every rider has a reason to ride and every mile makes an impact. Take on the course that matches your goals from a six mile ride through downtown to a 100 mile cycling challenge. You don't need to be in pro to join the fight. Riders of all levels can help support life saving cancer research at Cleveland Clinic with every dollar raise going directly towards cancer research projects. Make sure you sign up today at vellisano.org. And Mike will be trying to beat all the electric bikers and all that stuff. You're going to be I know it's not supposed to be a race, but you will be treating it as such. I will be going as fast as humanly possible. Yeah, yeah. All right. Zach, let's talk about let's start good to see you. We'll start with the offensive line here. Kevin Jenkins named the starter and then he gets hurt and practice yesterday. What's the latest that we know? I probably not much since yesterday at this point, but and what do we expect to happen there? Yeah, we don't know because he left during the open period of practice and we don't get to

32:26watch past that. Yeah. And they obviously don't have to reveal anything other than today's upcoming status report. So he had been managed through camp, but it was he and KT Leviston. And it wasn't until the late part of August that Austin Barber even took a rapid guard. Took talking about another rookie in a new position. That's kind of scary. Austin Barber is a massive human and a good football player. He's going to be a good football player. Yeah. To get pressed into this duty in this way would be less than ideal. So we'll see. But any injury report you're not going to know until Friday. Right. But on this one, especially his mystery, because he got tangled up and he totally walked off on his own. Okay. But did he go get treatment and come back out to practice? Or are we not going to see him the rest of the week? We don't know at this. I will say in the long term, Barber's probably going to be a much better player than Tadda Jenkins-Wonnie. Yeah. The problem with putting Barber at guard now is that then if you need him at tackle, now you have to make another shot. Right. That's true. So Barber was a college left tackle. He was right tackle all the way through until like August 10th. And on August 18th, he was a guard. So maybe he's just that good. Yeah. But you don't want to have to be at this shuffling point.

33:28At some point you're going to have to be you'd prefer to be November or not September. Yeah. Hopefully, if you find I like what I saw him on tape at guard. I like his physicality. I like his mobility. Sometimes it may you look like he's not a person that you know, sometimes when you go from tackle to guard, so you can use your athleticism a little more. You know, I've exposed. So I like him. We'll see what it looks like. For me, Zach, I guess the question is, what does this game plan in tail? You know, I talk ex-Tibus the other day. I say, Tivus, I talk to coach Riz too. I said, listen, man, does the job watch the need to throw for two, 15 for them to be in this football game? And they both told me no, but I'm like, this is Jaguars. They're going to score points. And I don't know what the game plan is, but I think he does at least has to have a productive game and making sure that they can get the ball down to few. I agree. I think the game plan is run, run, run, G. But Jacksonville has a top five run defense last year by every metric. They have three first rounders on their D-line.

34:29So I think it's going to be Casey, Concept C-O and Heavy. I think you're going to see him in the slot. You're going to see him in the back field. You're going to see him jet sweep and then maybe get some fakes and stuff off of that. But Judkins is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting. They're going to throw the fan in over the middle. And I think they're going to be deliberate, but intentional with their taking the deep shots down the field. So most of the passes, I think you're going to be six or eight yards to the flats. But I think most of the game plan is going to be Judkins, Concept C-O and Safe Stuff, and then boot legs and play action and stuff off of that. If we come in here Monday and it's a Brown's victory, how did it happen? What did the defense cause multiple turnovers and they cashed them in with touchdowns? They won the turnover battle. They won the time of possession battle. Judkins busted a long one, but really was just productive through the game. So I really think it's about two in yards, winning field position, winning the battle. The Browns want to win 17-14. The Jags during their way, it was an eight in a row. To finish last year, the fewest they scored was 23. They got high. And sometimes that skews the run defense numbers. So you're up on teams. But they want to throw it. They want to throw it down the field. They want to get you to blitz and let Trevor take off.

35:31They want to have pressure on you the entire game. And so the Browns do not want their quarterback and their new offensive line to be down 10-14. They want to play from the head, play, keep it close to the vest and keep it close on the scoreboard. You know, I don't know if you guys talked about the Draft Knight trade this week. Yeah, you did? Okay, I just want it because I mean, I thought Andrew Barry just knocked out of the park. I thought that on Draft Knight. And I think that now. Can we store that as a Browns win? Not yet. I don't think so. No, you probably haven't played enough games. Well, the trade now, the players, it ends up being Concepts'y own Mason Graham and Quinchon Juckins for Travis Hunter and Tutan, which obviously right now looks like an edge Browns. But after one year, I don't think we can say that. No, you can't say it. But if Hunter's not a two-way player, if he's only going to play. Well, he's not going to. If he's healthy, now it's an if with all these guys. But yeah, it's a Browns win right now. And you'd rather have those guys.

36:31100%. And especially now in the forming of it, where you get Concepts'y own, who plays the Hunter role, at least on one side of the pool. And then they made the second trade with Jacksonville and got Tyson Campbell, who's playing for an extension this year. So he's got to hold up, but he's got all the reasons to play for it. His cat number goes big next year, and the last year of his deal. So you either extended him or possibly moving along. You've already extended that one. Right. Yeah, that trade looks positive for the Browns. And Judkins, Concepts'y own, and Graham, all look to be cornerstone pieces. They have to go play like it. I do not want Travis Hunter jumping right tomorrow. Or Sunday. We'd be like, hey, listen, man, we won that trade day in Travis Hunter. Just got 10 pieces. Doesn't Brown's history say Travis Hunters in the In Zone and so on? And that's fine. Like, he can have a great day in the Browns still in the trade. Yeah, I'm just saying it too early to say sure. I feel pretty good about it. I mean, we were saying, yesterday I said to the guys, if you were drafting those five players, what order would you take them? I said, I said, Casey Concepts'y own one. I actually said Travis Hunter II, and then Judkins III,

37:32and then Graham IV, and Tutton V. J and G had the same order except they had Judkins II and Hunter III. What would you guys say? Yeah, I'm probably with J and G. You know, the story's just being written on Hunter. Late in the draft process, it came out that Browns were really in love with Travis Hunter. And I was stunned because I thought, really, at number two, I'm going to take a guy who's mostly a corner, like at this point of their building. They ended up getting the extra picks, going to safer routes, which makes him Graham. And I think that ended up being the smarter deal. Now, we haven't seen Travis Hunter ceiling, because we only saw him play seven games last year, right? So everybody in Jacksonville says he's a part of the plans. He's going to mostly play defense, but they're going to get the ball in his hands. They're going to put him out there to put return sometimes. And then he's going to become a top level corner. So we have to see where it happens. Those guys are ahead. Right now, I think Jugkins has the highest ceiling as anyone. I really do. We just have to see the offensive line and the offensive round him. And he has to stay healthy. And you mentioned, Jug, you mentioned the fact on the podcast earlier that

38:33he really couldn't play on third down by passing down. He missed all of training camp. So he didn't know the pass assignments or couldn't be trusted with him. So that's a whole new element to this year's game. But he has to leave the field at some point over the course of four months of the season. But I think he's going to be not only on the field, but in the game plan a lot. Carol Fannin. We've been injured. I think he needs to have a big game. I would tell you that of the days I remember watching Watson. Okay, the practice drills are over. We know it's Watson's day. Let's go to the competitive almost every day. One of the first two plays went to Harold Fannin over the middle. And Harold Fannin was managed through camp because he was coming off surgery because the Browns are going to feed him the ball like crazy. They didn't need him in August. They need him now. So I think he's going to have a big game. I think he's going to have a big season. I think he's going to be a super stargie. It might not be this year. Yeah. But he has that ability. It's so raw. It's so untapped. But when you watch him after the catch, like, you can't teach that stuff. And everybody was like, man, he's duck footed. He played a ball in green. He's different in a good way. Like all of those things are true. But he was out there having 15 catch games

39:35when everybody in the stadium knew he was getting the ball because he was just that good. Am I crazy to think that if the Browns at some point have a good quarterback that fanning, concepcy-owned, and Boston are all 1,000 yard capable receivers. Yeah, all 1,000 yard capable, sure. Yeah. I mean, you can, but I'm very optimistic for how it's going to go. Fence riders is back. It's football season. That means fence rider time. We got a two-park fence rider. Part one is coming up next on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. Welcome back to the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show sponsored by P.S. Caretables. Keep me the engines of change moving forward. Guys, football season means the return of no fence riders, a weekly segment here on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show, where you're not allowed to ride the fence.

40:37You have to pick a side and stick with it until let's get into part one of today's no fence riders. Well, Browns players, not named Jared Verses. Record a sack on Trevor Lawrence. Most of our answers today were pretty evenly split. This one, not so much. Bull, G, Tivis, Dustin, Zach, Jason, and Mike. Me, I'm Mike. I'll say, yes, someone not named Jared Verses. We'll get a sack. Earl and Jason, no, we're all on the same side here. So Bull, tell me why we're on the right side of history. Why somebody else will get a sack. Because I think especially early, I expect the Jaguars to throw the ball late, or throw the ball a lot because I think that's their strength and they got a lot of weapons. And yeah, it's just sacks can be random. They're gonna run into one. Somebody will run into one. And by the way, I wouldn't even have separated. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody else in Jared Verses had none. He's not Miles Garrett. It looks like he carried away. He's had what 12 sacks in his first few years. He's a really good player, but he shouldn't be singled out

41:39like Miles Garrett would be. I just think, yeah, I think that's just what I feel. You know, you're gonna run into one. Somebody else will run into one. When you pass the ball, like, you got an opportunity to have dropbacks and they're off in some line. You know, they're not crazy juggers. It's not fun. Not so good. I mean, plus sacks, and I noticed it sounds crazy coming from a deepest alignment, but sacks. Sometimes all sacks aren't created equal. Like, you can sacks the body for a one or two-yard loss. And it's like, oh, I got this sack. And they're like, but yeah, that's cool. It's still second and four. Remember the game winning safety the last time the Browns played in Jacksonville? Yeah, Alex Wright. Yeah, Alex Wright. Well, guess what? When you watched that. Miles Garrett did that. Yeah, Alex Wright. And now he's right. Especially with a new coordinator for the Browns and kind of a similar scheme, similar system, but new outlook. I expect an early sack that the Jaguars don't see coming. Safety blitz, linebacker blitz, guy coming on a stunt, something like that. That's absolutely. That's exactly what I see on top of the show. He comes from a system that blitz, more in Atlanta. It doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna translate, but I'm curious to see if they do blitz more.

42:41We don't see a ton. We've never seen a ton of corner blitzes and safety blitzes recently. But I wonder if, yeah, Sunday changes that it's a whole new system. We don't know what to expect. The Jaguars don't know what to expect. All right, Mike. Next one. Next one. We kind of talked about this in the last segment. The Mason Graham for Travis Hunter trade. Well, this next Fence Rider question is what's one of those two marquee players in that deal will have the bigger impact on the outcome of the game this weekend? Will it be Mason Graham? Or will it be Travis Hunter? Tyvis Dustin and Earl all said it'll be Mason Graham. The rest of us, Bull, Jay, Jason, myself, and Zach, all with Travis Hunter. Do you too? By the way, I'm assuming Tyvis Dustin and Earl are picking the browns for when I was otherwise out going to have a bigger impact. They was cooking. I guess, I guess they could, I guess it doesn't mean Hunter has a big gap. They may face a brand that has five sacks and they lose like Miles Garrett. Oh, yeah, what's the presented chance of that? I mean, this is easy.

43:41First of all, Travis Hunter can play specialty. Travis Hunter plays defense and offense just by the sample size. He has more opportunities to make plays than Mason Graham does. And he's a defense attacker. So defense attackers on zone plays get double. They can decide to double them, slide protection, whatever the case may be. If Mason Graham has a sack and a tackle for loss, we like, oh, that's a pretty good game. Yeah. If Travis Hunter gets the interception or scores the touchdown or returns the point. Yeah, right. One one's expected to have the ball in his hands and one isn't. Yeah, that's that's pretty simple. And it ended big. Yeah, you guys said it. Yeah, that's really simple. All right, go to the next one. Well, Quinshaw and Judges on Sunday have more carrots than the Sean Watson has completions against the Jaguars. What this one was easy. I thought it was kind of difficult, but really. Bull G. Time is Zach Jason and Earl said, yes, Quinshaw will have more carries than completions. I'm riding with Jay and Dustin on this one.

44:43I think there's more completions than carrots. The only way I think it gets there, it's going to be a lot of short and quick. So he could pile up a lot of completions that don't promise a lot of reasons. And it would have to be also the Jaguars getting up like 14, 21, nothing right away. Yeah, and we have no choice. That was my thinking a bunch of short passes. And I think Jacksonville is going to score early. Browns will be playing from behind when you play from behind. Obviously, you run the ball less. I think their game plan going in in a perfect script. Zach, tell me if I'm wrong is to run the ball like 65 times and throw it eight. Not going to play out like that. But I think just based on the game flow and how the game's going to pan out, I anticipate them playing from behind and having to throw a lot in the second half. Leading to a bunch of completions for the Sean Watson. Now, it may not lead to a ton of yards, but I do think the completions will be there. You're right about that, Mike. And that's the plan. Maybe 65 to 8 is a little bit exaggerated. But yeah, that's kind of the plan. When Mike sent me this question, yeah, I happened to have to Sean Watson's 2024 stat line in front of me on my laptop.

45:46Yeah. And I took one look and I realized that even if it does get out of hand, Judkins might win. So Judkins was the easy one here. Right. Because he'll throw in completions. And that I remember a game when it was negative 45 and they was playing his sense and they still threw it 37 mile times. And they didn't even look, I'm like, dang, they see this is the four. The ride more four in toxication be there. Because then you'd be like, but it's watching though, let them just get back there and throw it in the shotgun. But then you realize, yeah, his timing ain't ready to go. He's holding the rock and sacks is coming. So we'll see. They game playing better B. Yeah. Hand the ball off. That's that's what it's need to be again. Again, again. What do you think before we move on? What do you think the number of carries Quinchon, on Judkins gets in this game? 24. And I know the Browns love analytics. And they said, Nick Chubb, we like him when he gets under 18 carries. Well, listen, it's a Nick Chubb. You better give him the ball 20, 24 times 23. I think he has to be in the 20s. If in the first quarter, there's a 10 play, a 74 yard scoring drive, like they're drawn up,

46:48Judkins is touching it on half of them. So extrapolate that out still in the game. I think around 20, it wouldn't be surprising if it's into the 20s and flirting with 25. But I think in that 18 to 20 range, for sure, unless the game gets up to a weird circumstance, certainly. Yeah. You're with that. 20, I was thinking 22, 23 when you said 24. All right. Last one for the first part of no fence riders. The show of Watson started seven games in 2024. In those seven games, the Browns did not score 20. Oh, they did not. Now they did beat Jacksonville during that stretch. They scored 18 in that game. They did not score 20 in any of the show of Watson seven starts in 2024. We know the show and we'll start on Sunday against the Jaguars. The Jaguars defense was susceptible to giving up points late in the season in 2025. So the question is simple. Will the Browns score 20 or more points in week one of 2026? Dustin and Earl, they said yes.

47:50And Dustin really did answer these questions. I was trying to think and maybe. I did not assign Dustin dancers Dustin genuinely answered. The rest of us said no. Zach, what's the path to the Browns score in 20? Defensive touchdowns. Casey Concepcion on a property turn. Casey Concepcion on an end around. I mean, if the team total was 19 and a half, like you would be on the under for every half to be. Yeah. And crazy things happen. But. But he, you know, the thing I say since the shoulder injury, I have not seen him push the ball downfield effectively. And I think if he was still able to throw, you know, like he was with Will Foular and Brandon Cooke's and DeAndre Hopkins, it just seems like he just doesn't have the touch with trajectory. And then now sometimes it looks like he's not willing to push it downfield. In order for that to happen, I think if they get over 20 points, it'll be something where you get a spot file because it's a 50, 50 throw to, you know, Denzel Boston and maybe get a spot file. We kind of saw that yesterday with the Patriots and AJ Brown.

48:51You're going to my opportunity in short field, Quinshine, Juckins. But if you talk about straight back, dropback, offense, we about to create 20 points. I don't see a half in especially in the road with the new office of mine. It really stakes because I'm like, man, you have these skill position players that you're really like and you're like, they shouldn't be able to, 20 is not that high a bar. But it's just the quarterback and the offensive line. I have major concerns there. Two things that kind of piggyback off G's point one. We know week one is the preseason. It was reinforced last night. It was reinforced last year. It's ugly. And two, the passing or fierce play he's talking about came on a trick play. I think Monkins bringing the whole back. Oh yeah. Right? Maybe not everyone that's in the book, but there's going to be more than one on that list. I can almost guarantee it. The last time to Sean played in an opener, he was throwing them all seven yards out of bounds. Yeah. Right. Well, watch them all summer throw at six yards. So that is crazy that I had forgotten the last season he played. Oh, it was dreadful that they didn't even score 20 points in a single game. That's when they went to Washington and lost a fall to one in six.

49:54And I wrote the brown season has ended before the Guardian season. And that was the last game, J.O.K. play. Was it Washington? No, it was. It was. And they were one in four, not one in six, that one. They were one in four and it was the last game. Again, Washington. We'll look at the schedule. Jane Daniels cooked. Oh my goodness. Oh, Jane, Jane played the way the browns thought they were getting with the show. He ran around. He cooked us fricking seed us. It was nasty work. But yeah, yeah, we, you know what's interesting to see? I don't know what to expect from the offense defense, Deshine Watson, the rookies. It's almost like you're going on the first date. You just like, let's see what he's going to say. Two things. I'm on FanDuel right now. I just want to see the browns team total over under. What do you think it is? Not the game. The browns team total. 17 and a half. 14 and a half. In between 15 and a half. Is it right? And they have odds on the browns first drive. What do you think the browns first drive result odds are?

50:55These are kind of, it's there. Pun minus 230. Oh, all right. To score an offensive touchdown plus 700. Oh my god. To score a field goal. I would attempt to field goal plus 420. I'm going to put minus 185. I would put money on that. But 700. And then any others plus 440. So it turnover. I mean, what's the jaguars of the score touchdown? That's how outrageous plus 700 is. What? Plus 240. Okay. So the browns are plus 700 and the jags are plus 240. Yeah. Yeah, that's why. It's about three. Jaguars, they think are three times more likely to score a touchdown. I would love to know if that's the worst in the league. Maybe Arizona 100. The Jets maybe who's New York open with? I don't remember. Arizona's the only. That's what Tennessee. Arizona's the only bigger underdog than the browns this week. All right. We'll do more fence riders next hour more with Zach on the browns. When we go to channel three WKYC and hour number two next on the ultimate Cleveland Sports Show.

52:08J Crawford. Adam the Bull. Garrett Bush. Dustin Fox. Jason Lloyd. Tyvis Powell. Zach Jackson. Plus producer Mikey McNuggets. And so many others. The ultimate Cleveland Sports Show starts now. Welcome everybody to the third episode of the ultimate Cleveland Sports Show on WKYC Channel three. If you're new to us, welcome. If you've been with us, welcome back every day. From 11 to noon, we are live every weekday on WKYC Channel three. I'm Adam the Bull. I'm joined by G Bush. By Jason Lloyd. And Zach Jackson, who's with us for the first segment this hour. We've got Mikey McNuggets, our producer, director Steve. And assistant producer Anthony on the other side of the glass.

53:09All making this happen. We got fence riders part two coming up shortly. But there was a little news about a potential trade the browns could have made that they turned down this off season that came out recently. And Mike's going to tell us about it. Yeah, we all remember the miles Garrett trade. You got sent to Los Angeles and exchanged the browns got Jared verse back. They got a 2027 first round pickback. They got a 2028 second round pick. And they got a 2029 third round pickback. That was the official trade details when miles Garrett was sent from Cleveland to Los Angeles. But yesterday Tom Pellicero on his sub stack reported that the Buffalo bills were interested in miles Garrett as well. And Andrew Berry shut down that offer because they did not have a Jared verse as player. However, Tom Pellicero reported that they were willing to put the part with significant draft capital. So hypothetically speaking, this is what a deal with the bills may have looked like. A 2027 first round pick, 2028 first round pitch and a 2029 first round pick. Greg Russo, their defensive end may have also been in the mix.

54:13Zach, when you got the three first round picks, then I'm just saying he's a name that may have been in the mix. Zach, when you look at these two potential offers, did the browns take the right deal or were three first round picks and some combination of picks and Greg Russo, a better package in exchange for a miles Garrett. Yeah, I believe that the browns made the right deal because they got Jared verse. And I have a hard time believing that three first rounders would have actually been on the table. Now, a nice place to drive the negotiations deeply. Sure. The Buffalo bills were one of the first teams to call in 2025 when miles Garrett went public with his trade demand. The browns weren't interested in trading him. When miles Garrett signed his extension and he and the browns went on and pretended like everything was come by a couple of days later, the bills signed Russo to an extension. They ended up getting Joey Bosa as well. So potentially at that point, you were going to get multiple first rounders and Greg Russo instead of the versus a better player. I think the browns made the right deal. Matter of fact, universally, now for three months, I haven't heard one person hate on the deal that they made.

55:14Right? People are excited about first. People are excited about the browns just making the deal moving on. But the Buffalo bills were at the very top of the list of teams in 2025 and last year that said, hey, if there's a deal going down, we want in on it. Andrew Barry just chose this one. Yeah, man, give me give me the give me the proven player. I'm not going to play no games with you. Look, hey, three first round picks. I don't know. But what you got to do with them three first round picks, you got to go to the draft and make them be something. And on all actuality, them first round picks is second round picks. The bills is going to be with Josh Allen. They will be at the bottom of the draft because they're super bowl contenders. And miles Garrett is in the AFC. It's not the division, but it's still there. For me, you get Jared versus a plug and play. You can you know, prop up your defense. You got another corner store in person. That's young in his prime defensive rookie at year. And he's a proven guy coming from a proven culture. He can just come in today. Then you can still take those later picks because the Rams are super bowl contenders. And you can try to do something with them. So I like this move because it's less risk involved.

56:15I don't have to, you know, turn over, you know, move the egg shells around and say, okay, let's develop a guy and it's an unknown in the first round. I like this move. But three first Jason sound kind of crazy. I can't believe I'm saying this because three first round picks is gold in the NFL. But I agree. I like the deal that they made because when you look at it, one of those picks you're hoping to get a player like Jared versus. Right. Well, you got Jared versus. Right. But the important part of this also is that 27 pick for now is earmarked for a quarterback as draft capital to move up, trade up, whatever to go get a quarterback. So you're not getting your Jared versus type player until the 2028 draft. And that's if you get it right. Well, guess what? You're going to have Jared versus for two seasons before you even get to 2028. So for that reason, it's not close to me. And I can't believe I'm saying that because any other deal you would love to get three first round picks for a player. But in this instance, that's how much I like Jared versus is you hope with a draft. You can pick someone the capability of Jared versus to rebuild this defense around.

57:17If you have to trade someone like Miles Garrett and he was brought to you in this deal and you still got another first round pick to go with it. Even though three months later, the Browns still not will not still come out and say it. We're tanking. We're playing for the future. All of these things. There's a long term planning to this. Jared versus extension eligible after this year. After this year, the Browns don't go back to having hundreds of millions of caps space like they had all that time, but they have plenty. So you pencil in the extension. You pencil them in as a cornerstone piece and you can make your other moves accordingly. You know what else happens at the end of 2026? They vote on captains, the permanent one. You're funny, guys. Obviously, we're all in lockstep here. To me, it's not even a question. I don't know who it would be crazy to still. I guess it's crazy to say crazy because it's three first. First of all, I don't buy that it would have been three first round picks. Let's say it was. But let's say it was. It's still a no-brainer because the Browns got essentially two first round picks and a second and a third. But one of those first round picks, as you guys have already said, is proven.

58:17Like we don't like do we know how good Jarra versus going to be long-term of his career? Now he's on the Browns, not with a great organization in the Rams. I don't know. I know at the very least he's an all pro caliber, sorry, a pro-bowl caliber player. That's a pretty high bar. These other firsts from the bills, as you said, are at best the 20-something pick. What's the odds of getting a pro-bowl player at 20-something? It's not that high. Especially in a premium position like pass-brother. So that's worth way more than a traditional first round pick. So in the end, for both trades, you would have gotten a 27 first round pick. So you're asking me, would I rather have Jarra versus a 28 second and a 29 third, or have just a 28 first and a 29 first? I would much rather have Jarra versus a second and third round pick. Even if you want to get a little technical, the Rams are more likely to fall off in 28-29 than the bills are because they're quarterbacks old.

59:21That second round pick from the Rams and maybe the third round pick, whatever it's worth, might be a little higher. But ultimately, you can get just as good a player at 50 as you could at 25. I mean, I think when you get to that point, it's a craft shoe. The debate here is really should they have traded Miles Garrett a year earlier? Yes, well that changes, but you make the good point. I'm like, where you are now and why you waited, now you're locking it. You know versus going to be on your team. You don't know what you're going to do with these picks. You're probably going to use it as ammo, as Jason said, but you can align that up a lot more clearly now. So do we know why? What was the camel that broke the straws or started broke the camel's back with Miles Garrett? They did the Cunbai, I think, with the draft. They give them the extension. Then all of a sudden, he's like, I'm not coming to camp. Do we know exactly what the intel is on? What made him be like, I'm cool on this. Get me up out of here. Because the Cunbai I think was just for dress. It just was never going to happen. They were just never going to make him happy and they were never going to be on the same time one.

1:00:21So eventually the sides got together and in March, they amended that contract and they said, we will seek out the right deal, but it has to be the right deal. It started to happen in early April. It really got hectic or probably heated up in late May. And on June 1st, it was made. So there's a lot that goes into it, Garrett, but Miles Garrett and the Browns just were not going to see eye to eye. And they pretended for a year. They pretended for several years, but both sides were done pretending and the Browns were ready to move right in 27 and beyond. And it was wise for Miles Garrett, at least initially in the off season, to pretend because it gave the Browns a better chance to make a deal they liked. If everybody knew with 100% certainty that he had to get out of there, it wouldn't have been the case. All right. When we, Zach, good to see you. Zach did three segments with us. Now he's headed to Berea to see the Browns practice. When we come back, fence riders is back. If you missed it now, number one, don't miss it here. A whole bunch of new set of questions. And we'll give you the answers without riding the next on the Ultimate Cleaver's World.

1:01:31Welcome back to the Ultimate Cleaver's Sports Show, sponsored by Felizano's bike to cure. Join the cause September 18th and 19th and ride to support life saving cancer research at the Cleveland Clinic. You can register today at vellisano.org. All right. We are back on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show at its time for part two of fence, no fence riders. If you've never seen this segment before, Mike sends us a bunch of questions via text earlier in the week. We all in theory answer those questions. I think in this case, we all did. And we got to choose the side. Some of the questions are tough. You might be right on the borderline. That's what Mike tries to do. Give us a question that's hard to decide. And we got to pick a side. There's no riding the fence on this. We did four, we answered four of those questions in the first hour of the show. And now we answered the other two. Or we already answered. We find out the answers. Mike, hit us with them. These last two questions, by the way. Yeah. As close to an even split as we could possibly get. We have nine voters. Yep. And we have five on one side of the fence, four on the other.

1:02:31So let's dive right in. DeShawn Watson in his career for Cleveland. Has averaged 177.1 passing yards per game. That is not very good. So the question for this particular edition of no fence riders is will DeShawn throw for at least 175 yards versus the jaguars? It is a low bar. 175, 9-A height number. However, bull, zack, Earl, and myself said, no, we don't think he can get to 175. JG, Tyve, is Dustin and Jason says he will. So Jason, start us off. Why do you think DeShawn Watson will throw for 175 yards or more against the Jacksonville Jaguars? Because it's week one. Trying not to be where I know I'm going to be in week three and week four. Like 175 is about as low as you can go in the NFL. You mean to tell me he can't hit Casey Concepcion once where he breaks one free for 40-45 and you're already most of the way there.

1:03:35Do I have faith that he's going to drive the ball down the field? And he's going to lead a 12-play drive by throwing the ball down the... No, but we talked about it all show. It's going to be a lot of short and quick, short and quick. And I have faith that Boston and Concepcion is going to do the heavy lifting on this and get them there. Listen, 175 is menomosky. That is nasty work. 175, Bull is like screen pass, 30. Dump down to Casey Concepcion, another 30. And then when you're down maybe 14 points, you catch somebody slipping on a deep comeback or a deep curl or a dig. And 175 is not cooking. Like I expect I asked people 215. I was like if the Browns won a chance, he at least got a throw for 215. 175 and a league is nothing to write home about. If he can't get 175, we in trouble. We're in trouble.

1:04:36We're in trouble. Mike did any quarterback in the last-lice game for 175 yards? I do not believe they did. I don't think so. Well, Sam Darno was out after the first five-foot play. Played most of the game. I mean, it's Drew Lock. And Drew Lock even had two big time throws. I'm like, OK, Drew Lock. Bull. Yeah. Drew Lock threw for 187. Oh. And Drake may have. 178. So they both threw for 175. Lasty and Drake made three picks. Those were the teams that went to the Super Bowl and they barely got over. Barely. The Sean Watson is on a good day to 53rd best quarter back in the league. On a good day. Wendy Depp is best. The Browns traded for the Sean Watson. I was on the air when it happened. On the radio, I was excited beyond belief. I thought the Browns fortunes had finally turned around that he was going to be a great quarterback. All three of us did. We all thought he was going to be great here.

1:05:36He is the worst quarterback in the league. He's the worst starting quarterback in the league. Geno Smith and the Jets are laughing at the Sean Watson. Jacobi, percent, and the Cardinals are laughing at the Sean Watson. Is the starting quarterback? Would you rather have Drew Locker and the Sean Watson? I'd rather have Drew. Well, yes, Drew Locker. Would I saw yesterday? Drew Locker. And I'm only paying Drew Locker $3 million. I didn't. The Sean Watson stinks. He does have better talent around him so there's no excuse. But the offensive lines are also terrible. And I think they want to run. If they have a chance, stay in it. They got to run. Maybe he gets over it late and garbage time if they get blown out. And I'll say this. Listen, I'll say this. I'm a Browns fan through run through. I got to stay constant and consistent. If he comes out and throws and he cooks against that, you're going to be I'm going to give him credit for it. But what have I seen at camp and what I've seen in the preseason? I can't honestly come up here and tell you he's going to cook like that. I just got to wait and see for it.

1:06:38When it comes to any of the Sean Watson question for me personally, until I see it, I cannot change what I have in my mind that's been seared in, which was a 2024 season. Although you have a bit of a contradiction in your picks, Mike, because earlier in the show, I think you have a lot of completions for like two and a half yards. Yeah, he's going to average two and a half yards per completion. I think for you, I did have to do the math. I think he has 19 completions for 158 yards. So you don't think Quinchons are going to get 19 touchdowns? I don't think Quinchons get 15 cars, no. Okay, second, no fence rider question. Trevor Lawrence, the quarterback opposite of the Sean Watson in this game, finished last season with four consecutive 250 passing yards or more in games, four straight games where he eclipse through 50. The Browns, historically speaking, have been a very good pass defense. They have not allowed a 300 yard passer since the 2023 season, but for 250 for Trevor Lawrence. Will he get there on Sunday? I think he does. So does Bull, so does J, so does G and so does Jason and the four people who are not on

1:07:43today's show, ironically, are on the no side. We all say, yes, G, why do you think he can eclipse? Trevor Lawrence. Two 50 again on Sunday against this Browns. Because they got Thomas, they got Parker Washington, they got Travis Hunter, they got... Jacobi Myers. Jacobi Myers, Trevor Strange. Trevor Lawrence, through for 4,000 last year. Cohen is a good offensive coordinator. They scheme things up. They're playing at home. It's going to be hot weather and the Cleveland Browns have miles hardening the nickel. What else do you want? Like 250, like that, that looks like they're ready to go with that. They're going through the football and the thing that we talked about with the Browns is the secondary is solid, the first line starters are solid. But what happens if you get injuries, what happens with depth? And I don't think early they're going to be able to get that much pressure on them. I think when we look at it, I think Jacksonville comes out here to throw some ball and he gets to get it. Yeah, I mean, it could be three. I know it's week one.

1:08:44And that's probably the only reason why I said, I don't think it'll get to the ball. I don't think it'll get to the three, but I expect Jacksonville put up a lot of points in this game. We've talked about the changes the Browns defensive made with the coordinator and some of the personnel of changes. I thought you had a great point with the heat and what that does to guys, particularly on the defensive side. So yeah, I expect this to be a big game for Trevor Lawrence. A lot of the things Mike has talked about with the defensive defense hasn't given up this in this long. Yeah. Well, but the defense during that time has had the best pass Russia in football. Maybe the best player in football certainly best defensive player football, even with his flaws as a leader. And one of if not the best defensive coordinator, exactly. We haven't mentioned that. Okay. Yeah. That doesn't mean their current defensive coordinator is bad. And that doesn't mean that their current defense is bad. But there's a lot we don't know. Yes, we know that Denzel Ward still a very good corner Tyson Campbell's a good number two Carson. Swayca was tremendous as a rookie Jared verse was a really good player in LA.

1:09:48Mason Graham had a nice rookie season. But you're asking them all on some level, especially verse Graham and Swayca to do more or something different than they've ever had to do before. And you're asking a defensive coordinator to do something he's never done before. Run a defense. And you're doing it against an offense that has everybody pretty much returning. There's no like who's a new face on Jacksonville's offense. The only difference is they lost ETN. Right. And now it's two. But two was there last year. And the Chris Rodriguez, but ETN was the lead back. He's gone. They have a new lead back. Everyone else is back. Right. Fine. But I think two is going to be their lead back, not Rodriguez, but we'll see you guys. Their offensive coordinator and Trevor Lawrence had his best season. He's now been good two of the last three years. Same system. And so they have a big advantage coming into this game. And it's at home. And it's at home.

1:10:48Yeah. So there's every reason to believe that Trevor Lawrence will end that's not only have 250, but has it. I think the only way he doesn't get 300 is the Jaguars have such a big lead that they stop throwing the ball. So there you go. That's no fence writers. When we come back, we haven't talked about the Guardians yet today. It was an ugly game yesterday. We'll talk about it. Fortunately, Guardians got lucky in other areas. We'll discuss next on the ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. Welcome back to the ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. If you love Great Lakes Brewing Companies, Dortmunder Gold Lager, but are looking for something. A little lighter. Let me introduce you to the new Dort Light. It delivers the same great Dortmunder Gold taste and drinkability with just 90 calories and 2.9% alcohol experience.

1:11:49Dort in a new light find Dort Light wherever Great Lakes is sold. Please drink responsibly. All right. Then we need to responsibly talk about the Cleveland Guardians here. Who might be the drink to talk about the Cleveland? Yeah, it is. It might be the way they played yesterday. Terrible performance by the Guardians. A foster Griffin in particular, which just got smoked. It was an eight run second inning by the Orioles. And the Orioles take this series from the Guardians. Now, the good news is the White Sox lost, the Astros lost, the Rangers lost, who else in the mix, the Blue Jays lost. Everybody in their stratosphere lost. On the other hand, you can say, well, they had a chance to get to within one game of Chicago. Now keep in mind, the White Sox, if we go back to the division standings, guys, the White Sox have played two less games in the Guardians. You see there the Guardians have played 147?

1:12:51I'm sorry. Yeah, 147. And the White Sox have played 145, which means we have 18 days left in the season. The White Sox have to play 17 games in 18 days, which is a disadvantage. They only have one day off in the final 18 days. The Guardians have three. The White Sox will play today as one of those days. The Guardians are off today. They begin a three game series in Minnesota tomorrow. Then come home for the final home stand of the year. Obviously, that series with the White Sox is going to determine the division, most likely. The Guardians, with whatever happens against the twins, you need to win the series. You can't certainly get swept through anything. But they're going to need to, if they want to win a division, they got to sweep that White Sox series. The two out of three is not going to cut it most likely. Because the Gibson Chicago, the tiebreaker. That's right. The Guardians not only would pick up three games if they sweep the series, but they would now have the tiebreaker. Even if they went two out of three, the White Sox would have the tiebreaker.

1:13:51The Guardians will only pick up one game. That's a huge difference. First, you got to get through the twins. And then you have the final week. The two of the last three series are pretty easy. The A stink. And out of the royals got hopped there for a little bit, but they stink again. Red Sox are pretty good. We'll see what they have to play for. They might be locked into their spot by that point. Meanwhile, the White Sox are going to get the Rockies and the Royals that final week. And as opposed to the Guardian playing, the Red Sox and the Royals. So where are we at right now? So a bad game. And the pitching, the last three days has been awful. You got Griffin, you got Kintello, and maybe on five. And that starts. And for me, I know we can look at, you know, for the division, the weather playing, they're up and down, they're a game over 500. Yeah. I can't look at them and say, oh yeah, we're going to sweep the White Sox. You can't, you can't count. No, I don't think that. You can't count on that. I just think that this is a microcosm of who they are. You know, they had the walkoffs last week.

1:14:53But the things that keep them and make them continue to struggle is the fact that with this offense, you can't give up that many runs in the second inning. That is all she wrote. It's good night. Yeah. And so when you take a look at the Guardians, I think the ceiling they have is, we're going to make the Wild Card. We can make some things interesting. And that's as fans, okay, that's the realistic expectations you've got to put that on. Like, I don't think we can go into the playoffs thinking like, oh, what a Guardians is going to cook. Well, the offense and now the pitching is a little wonky, especially at the end of the rotation. But I just think this is who they are, Jason. It's just, you know, they're young, they're a little inconsistent. And I think that's what you're doing. It's September, they're a 500 team, they're a 500 team. Yeah. And in a terrible division. Yeah. And I think, all you hit on it, the most disappointing part of this Oreo series was the starting pitching. And the backbone of this thing for years. And again, this year, and I mean, what they scored 18 runs, I think, in the three games. Yeah.

1:15:53That's good enough. Yeah. That's good enough to win two of three. And they didn't do it. It was really disappointing Griffins performance yesterday. This is who they are. I agree with you, G. And, you know, you hope that they can fight and claw their way in. But I certainly thought after the moves that they made at the Trade Deadline that it would catapult them into something more than what they'd become and it's frustrating to support them. And you know, Adele and Lo have been good. Yeah. They've done the job. Yeah. Foster Griffins been not good. Not good. He's had a couple of decent starts, but overall after the way he pitched in Washington, I don't know they didn't give up a lot to get him, but he's been a big disappointment. That's a season stats, but I his stats with the Guardians have nothing good. And he got smoke yesterday. And how concerned are you with him, by the way? Is it? Well, I mean, don't track record before this year. So listen. Outside of Messick, Gavin Williams and Kate Smith. I don't trust any pitcher on the team. That's three guys. That's it. Who else? You have confidence in a playoff game? Starter reliever. Besides Kate Smith, Messick and Gavin Williams. You have confidence in anybody?

1:16:53No. And we should have it in Bibi because that's where he's paid like it. He's he's touted like it. But I can't count on him. Now, the good news is they're going to play the White Sox or the Blue Jays or the Astros. And those teams don't have pitchers. I trust either. But the odds that they're going to, the Guardians could still win two series in the playoffs. I know it's hard to believe. But the other teams they're going to play are just like that. The unfortunate part is I have no faith that even if they did get to the ALCS, which is certainly not a short thing. I have zero faith at this point that they could be the Yankees, Razor Red Sox. Correct. Because those teams are classable. Other than the nationally teams are even a class about that. Especially the Brewers, the Braves, the Phillies. And the Dodgers. So it's hard to have a lot of faith in this team right now. Wouldn't it be funny? Well, they're going to, I think I'm still confident they're going to make the playoffs, but they're going to make the playoffs. I'm not necessarily saying the Guardians.

1:17:54What if one of these 500 teams wins the World Series this year going into the collective bar, you know, so negotiations? How would that change it? It would hurt. It would hurt the owners from a PR perspective. The owners own the PR right. Yeah, the first time ever. They own it. Yeah. It would hurt their case. I think it'd be fascinating. But what are the odds of that? Not high. Not high. It would be fun to watch. Yeah. Yeah. And even if it's only if it were like the Guardians, really, or maybe the White Sox, but the yes, the Astros and the Blue Jays are mediocre, but they're still the high payroll teams. Yeah. All right, we're going to take a break. At Todd Munkin had some interesting comments yesterday about why he may or may not be nervous. He's a veteran coach, been around late forever. This is going to be his first game. I know. We'll get to that next. We open the door.

1:19:07Tyris Powell, Zach Jackson, plus producer Mikey McNuggets, and so many others. The ultimate Cleveland Sports Show starts now. Welcome back to the final half hour of the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. Along with G. Bush and Jason Lloyd, I'm Adam the Bull, Mike Anthony and Steve with us as well. And plenty to get to here in the second hour, including yet another new stat in the NFL. But our next conversation really has nothing to do with stats. It's something eternal, eternal, internal, not eternal. But the new head coach of the Browns, Todd Munkin believes he will not be nervous when he takes the field for his first ever NFL game. He's been in the league longer than almost any coach ever to start his first or to be a head coach for the first time in the league.

1:20:09Jason, are you buying what he is selling that he doesn't think he'll be nervous when they take the field against Jacksonville Sunday? Oh, he'll be nervous. I think veteran coaches are nervous when it's week one of a new season. If you're John Harbohn, you've done this 100 times in one super bowl. So you're still going to have, especially with new teams. Yeah, you're going to have some butterflies. So sure. I think that he's confident in his ability to do the job. I think he's comfortable in the role. But I think that's separate from being nervous. I think, I think, G players get nervous all the time, don't, especially for a week one. Yeah, like, listen, this normal to be nervous, as a matter of fact, I would look at you strange. I would say, bro, you're not wired for the game if you ain't supposed to be nervous. Like, I do podcasts. Like, there are points of time, points of time when you go on any radio or you're doing speaking engagements or you in front of a group of people just saying something. There's always a 5% chance in your bottom of your stomach, you're thinking like, what about come out here and say some stupid? What about just completely forget? And you've been doing it for years.

1:21:09So that 5% is always a healthy 5% because it keeps you grounded in the fierce urgency if I need to get it done today. And so for me, I think he's trying to calm himself down a little bit. He should be a little bit nervous. Everything is brand new. I've kind of talked about the last half hour. He doesn't know what Deshain Watson's going to do. He has a brand new offensive line. His best playmakers are young people and young guys that they just got here. And on top of that, you're in a hornet's nest with the Cleveland Browns. The Cleveland Browns is one of the most difficult places to play for a team that does not traditionally play well. The Packers got heat. The Bears have a lot of heat. The Giants, the New York team's Keshe and Heat. The 14 that has not produced and not once is 1989, the division. This place got national media all over it. You got local media that's feisty. So yeah, he's in that cat bird's seat now. He got to heat his hot. So what's he what he got? And he's put his money down on Deshain Watson.

1:22:12That's got to be anybody nervous. Of course, he's got to be someone nervous. It's how you deal with those nerves and how you handle those nerves. The people that are good at what they do, you never know they're nervous, right? Even though, yeah, it's there, whatever you're doing, you know, so I'm sure he's nervous, but I think he'll handle it fine. And the fact that he's been in the league for such a long time and been around, been in good organizations or at least in one good organization with the Ravens is certainly going to help him learn how to deal with his nerves. But it would be, it would be just as generous, I think. But you know, I guess he's just going to want to admit he's going to be nervous. I put this to you like this. We all done radio shows. We done, you know, now we do television shows. There is a difference. One time when I was doing weekend stuff and I would do a three, four hours show on Saturday, I would always give the regular hosts who do it Monday through Friday credit because there's a difference between you doing it and people can love you on one topic for four hours.

1:23:12But guess what? People who are doing it every single day and got to talk five hours or four hours and got come up with some stuff when it's news or not news. It's a different level. He's been a coordinator. He's been a coordinator with Baltimore Oklahoma State. He's done it in Georgia, two national championships, but there's always a little difference between what you do as a coordinator and you being the guy. Because you got to answer, you got to answer for everything. Oh yeah, speaking of which Jason, if let's say the John Washington is awful. And the Browns get just crushed. That's going to be an uncomfortable press conference after the game for him, is it not? Yeah, he doesn't do a very good job of hiding emotions and pretty much tells you how it is and what he thinks. So I mean, we'll see. It could be. Could you see it getting contentious? No, not yet. It's week one. Yeah, it's it's it's but I need to show us and it just looks like he doesn't belong in the league. It which is entirely possible. But I don't think after week one it'll get contentious. Yeah, he has a he has a little bit of political capital built up, but I will say this.

1:24:18It gets used up very quickly. If you don't that offense doesn't come out here and cook immediately up because you got next week against the Buckenhears on the road. Another team, the Baker angle is still there. And then the elephant in the room is you got to come back and play Carolina here. The question is what would the fans temperament be? Is it going to be okay? Well, we did pretty well or is it like, hey, what are we doing here and why are we playing it? Because DeShawn play is poorly. That's one thing. If they lose because they have 15 penalties and because they've got coverage bus on the backside on the defense and they have special teams miscusing. Yeah, everything goes wrong. That to me is much different than you lost because the quarterback didn't play well in a couple of other sections. You think it's worse that way? Yes. Even though he's kind of I think it's worse if it's a whole functional breakdown, that's worse than if the quarterback doesn't play well. That's in general, yes, but I think it's bad for him either way because he's a quarter. He wants to the start. But they don't have a good option to pick from a quarterback.

1:25:20That's why I'm giving him grace on that. So, the elephant is there. It's just sitting there and that's where you look at it. The browns are in a unique position because like you said, I think he takes the blame for either way, whether it's the procedure or the quarterback, which is the head coaches. Now there's a word that makes every old school sports fan nervous and that word is analytic. There's a new analytic that Jason's other employer, the athletic has come up with. We like it, we hate it, we want more of it. That's next on the Old School of Sports Show. Welcome back, it's the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. I know the word analytic for analytics can make people nervous sometimes, but they really shouldn't.

1:26:21I think we had just been saying stats instead of analytics all these couple of years, it might not have made people nervous. But because some stats fans didn't grow up with, they don't trust them even though in general, a lot of the new analytics we use are more, give you a much better picture than the old traditional stats, but believe what you will, there's a new one. The athletic has come up with what they believe is the ultimate stat to grade how good quarterbacks are. Mike tells more about it. It's called quarterback index and it's trying to encapsulate everything a quarterback does into one easily digestible numbers. We're going to run through a couple things that we will discuss if we want to use quarterback index moving forward. According to the athletics rollout, quarterback index is a forward looking quarterback efficiency metric that uses play by play data, adjust for context in each play and is opponent aware. Put more simply quarterback index takes into account passes, rushes, scramble, sacks, turnovers and anything else that happens when the football is in the quarterback's hands.

1:27:24But it goes a step deeper and adjusts whether the quarterback was pressured. If that pressure was quick, less than two and a half seconds, as well as the quality of the offensive line and receivers. This grading system is pretty simple to understand. It starts with a baseline of 100. 100 is league average. Anything under 100 is a backup level quarterback. 101 to 123 is considered starter level play. 124 to 132 is provocaliver play and 133 are higher is all pro. Now they're rolling it out this year, but they went back and looked at 2025 season to see how quarterbacks would have ranked if quarterback index was around last year. These are the top five performers and their scores borrow at 132, Stafford 125, Purdy at 124, Drake May at 119 and Josh Dallan at 118. So those guys the highest scoring on the quarterback index. The lowest five scores on the quarterback index, Michael Pentax at an 80, came more to the 79 to attack a viola at 78, JJ McCarthy at 36 and Shadour Sanders at a 47.

1:28:33Guys when you look at this is this quarterback index a metric we want to keep using as we move forward. I see a flaw already guys and I don't understand. It's obviously not on a per game. It's not on a per game basis, Mike, because Joe borough only played I think seven to eight games last year. That was the season grade. Yes. Yeah, so that's a flaw because you can't make Joe borough play great in the games that he played, but it's got to be I think they've got to find out how to do it on a per game basis because how could the quarterback will only play seven games be number one. You want to say he played it at an all pro level in the games he played. I agree with you, but he didn't play enough games that I can rank him as the best quarterback. So that's the biggest flaw of these numbers. That's the number he produced. So that's that's number, but they're obviously not factoring in like per game. I think any is that is the number just added up a campy. How can he have the highest number playing seven games?

1:29:34That was his number for the seven games he played. I mean, does he take any count sample size? Don't you guys think that's a flaw? It's not like war. If a guy plays less games, but still has a higher war, will he hit more in those less games? That can't be right. But statistically speaking, when you're boiling down a game of a bunch of variables with offensive and defensive and a bunch of things, it's very difficult to come up with one number that it counts for. I think the number, these are probably, I mean, it's probably pretty good. I mean, I would we need to talk to somebody about how burrow ended up number one when we only played seven games. Or I think, listen, these are, you know, when you take a look at it, we, I know we talked about EPA and the EPA talks about, you know, I'm saying, what was the outcomes, right? What is the outcome? I think that we, you also have to marry the Y. I think what this one is, is an upgraded version because it's trying to go look at the film to say, okay, here's why this guy was pressured. Here's why he may had an incomplete pass or here's why his completion percentage is where

1:30:37it's at. But I think what you have to do, if you want to find out whether a quarterback is good or not, yes, you have to take the analytics involved, but you also have to look at the contextual tape to figure out, okay, what was this, how did it work? And if you take both of those things into account, I think you can come up with a better grasp of what a quarterback is or is in basing the totality of it. So I think Shadors Sanders was the second worst. Right? He was the worst. Oh, he was the worst. He was the worst. Okay. So he had the worst number. It was very well. It was 30, 47, 46, 47. I do think when you take a look at it, if you look at the bottom five, all those teams were bad teams. Yeah. Right. So yeah, obviously, if you had a quarterback and Browns have a brand new offensive line, that wasn't because the offensive line they had previously was great. The Browns went and got drafted to ride receivers in the first round. Wasn't because they had great receivers. So they told you and what they did in the off season, that there was deficiency on the team, which it went to. And now Shadors, did he play lights out?

1:31:38No. And then, in the end of the day, a lot of what you are as a quarterback has to do with your supporting cast in the situations that you put in. True. There is no great stat. There's no perfect stat. I should say there are great stats. There is no perfect stat. A lot of what you're seeing though, with all these different stats, it's the same names at the top and it's the same names at the bottom. That tells you who the good quarterbacks are and who the bad quarterbacks are. The one thing that I think about this, I think that we have enough, we have enough of these different indexes and ratings and everything else. I still believe, and I think a lot of people in the league believe EPA is the best one that's out there. I think this looks very similar to EPA. I think it puts it in a more digestible format though. EPA is clunky people don't understand it. This at least gives you a number that they're more comfortable with and more familiar with. But it's early. We need to let this play out. They need to get more data. They need to clean it up. But it's an easier number to look at than EPA. When we come back, the final segment of the show, including 62nd trivia. Next on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show.

1:32:47Welcome back. It's the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. On a Thursday, we appreciate you joining us today and being with us. We wrap up every show here with 62nd trivia. Roughly, we have 60 seconds to answer a trivia question that might come up with. So Mike, what have you come up with today? I like this one. And I don't think you guys are going to get it. Even though it's something you think you should get. Last night, Eli Rehrad in the rookie tight end for the New England Patriots scored the first touchdown of the NFL season. Do you remember who scored the first touchdown of the Brown season in 2025? Dylan Samson. Incorrect. Wow. Blake Whitehurst, Blake Whiteheart, whatever's that? Not Blake Whiteheart. Is that his name? Who the opener was since then, he didn't they? You know, sure did. Missed the field goal at the end. Yeah. David and Jocque. Nope. I'm just putting out a guess, guys.

1:33:48We're running out of time. You flacco? You weren't even, dude. Flacco started. Flacco. It could have been a rushing touchdown by Flacco. It was not Flacco. Judy? It wasn't Judy. Who's the running man? It wasn't, is it an offensive player? OK. Who's the running back? Because it wasn't Judkins. Oh, the Judkins was a judge. Did he miss the first game? I think he missed the first. It wasn't Samson. What's his name? The other guy that's here. The third running back. What's his name? Sanders, Rockett, Sanders. Rockett, Sanders. It was Rockett Sanders. There you go. Raheem Sanders, Rockett Sanders. He was the first touchdown score of the Browns in 20, 20. I would guess it after about 13 years. Yeah, right? It seems so easy, but it was a good trivia question. We stumped you guys. We knew it wasn't Jerry Judy. We knew that. I was. I knew that wasn't happening. We appreciate you all being with us today on WKYC Channel 3. Remember, we'll be right here on Channel 3 every weekday from 11 to noon.

1:34:48It is the ultimate Cleveland Sports Show.