Can Tudor survive much longer at Spurs?

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The Athletic FC

Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayur Akim Waleh.

Four games, four defeats, 14 goals conceded and a goalkeeper subbed off after 17 minutes.

So what is next for Spurs and you got you done?

This is the day we have our Spurs correspondent, Jay Harris, who've also got our football

correspondent as well, David Ornstein with us.

All right, Gents, this time last week we were talking about the situation at Tottenham

Hotspur.

I genuinely didn't think we'll be back in this week.

In such depth, talking about Spurs once again, but yeah, here we are.

So let's look at the defeat firstly at Palace last week, last Thursday, and then we look

at the defeat on Tuesday night in the Champions League to Athletic Homo Druid Shipping, five

goals to Athletic Homo Druid Jay.

Spurs are skating on some seriously thin ice at the moment.

They're just completely imploding.

If you look at what happened against Crystal Palace, Mickey Van the Venn's red card, let's

them conceding three goals in seven minutes just before half time and the game was over,

a game they needed to win.

And it was a very similar situation last night.

They conceded four goals inside 22 minutes, that's the sign of a team that's incredibly

low on confidence and doesn't know how to respond to setbacks.

I don't really get to ahead of myself here, but in terms of Igor Tudor, the interim head

coach, it's four games in charge, four defeats, one red card, one goalkeeper subbed off after

17 minutes, 14 goals conceded.

I think every decision he's made during his spend in charge has backfired.

Players alone, confidence are being played at a position.

Tudor has just not jelled with the players or the fan base whatsoever.

And Spurs still have what nine games left to save their season, but serious questions

need to be asked as to whether Tudor is the person to do that.

Jay, I thought the Crystal Palace defeat was perhaps more damaging just because every

Tottenham fan you speak to talks about Premier League survival.

I know the circumstances of Atlético Madrid were remarkable, painful for anybody connected

to Spurs and really chasinging that and will come on to talk about Kinski and the scoreline.

But Crystal Palace was on home soil in the competition that Tottenham cannot even contemplate

falling out of.

They were outplayed another red card.

I thought full of them, they would get something because of the seriousness of their predicament,

they would come out with a draw and it wasn't taking anything away from full of them who

were a great team, especially at home and Marco Silva's a top manager, but Tottenham

are good enough to get something there.

When they didn't, you come back to home soil and whatever you do avoid defeat and they

know they're not going to win the Champions League.

So it was almost like a shot to nothing, they've probably caused more damage than they

should have, but that Palace one was just brutal.

I think with the Palace game, firstly, Palace were without Maxine Stacquah, who was suspended

and obviously they sold Gain in January, so that sort of backbone of Crystal Palace's

defence that they were missing two of their key players.

They are in a very difficult situation at this moment in time under all of the glass

and as well.

So they were a low on confidence.

I think the Crystal Palace game, as you mentioned, because of what had happened the

previous night with West Ham beating Fudham and not even for us drawing against Madden

City, I really felt like this has to be the moment which prompts a reaction.

And over the last couple of years that I've covered Spurs, there's always been one

single figure that unites the fanbase in hatred, which is a horrible thing to say, but that's

the truth.

Last season, it was Daniel Levy.

And then for, I guess maybe a small period of time, it was Angepasta Coglu and then he

got everyone back on side with the Europa League win.

For the majority of this season, it's been Thomas Frank.

Now Frank has gone, Levy has gone.

I actually think the fans don't know who to vent their frustration at and I think what

I saw during the game against Crystal Palace was, was a real shame because I saw fans turning

towards the club's analysts in the press box and sort of shouting at them.

I saw them turning towards the directors, what's in shouting at them.

People left at half time.

We put up a piece on the athletic and we spoke to some fans who left and they sort of said,

we're resigned to the fact we're getting relegated now.

There was one gentleman who wrote in and said that he's not going to take his kids to Spurs

games anymore because the atmosphere has become that toxic like what a sorry state of affairs

is.

You're completely right the game against Crystal Palace is more damaging.

I just think the comical manner of how they lost to athletic imagery just sort of reinforces

that it's just a farcical situation and that they just can't get any type of remedy or

escape from it no matter what competition they're playing.

I mean, I like the Kingston cops at the back of the moment I'm at the top of the goalkeeper

slip band.

Oh, he's got it again.

He's got it again.

What is happening here?

Overest.

I was going to say we'll talk about two doors position in depth a little later on at the

time of recording.

He's still in charge at Tottenham Hotspur, but you mentioned it there David.

Let's talk about the Kinski Vicario situation.

Look, Kinski started.

I raised eyebrows and I thought, wow, young kid.

Big game.

Obviously, there are issues around Vicario's form right now, but were you surprised when

you saw Kinski in goal and also surprised by how the match ended up for the young man

who had to be held off after what, 17 minutes or so?

Yes and no.

So when he was signed and people you talked to around Tottenham around the game thought

very highly rated young goalkeeper with a high bar.

He can really grow into being a top operator in his position.

And I think, Jay, correct me if I'm wrong.

He was thrown in at the deep end.

Did he start against Liverpool in his first match?

Yes, he did.

Yeah, in a Carabell Cup semi-final tie.

And he looked okay, actually, and he got a run in the team.

I think Vicario was out injured and did himself no disservice or disgrace at all.

We then haven't seen him pretty much at all since and therefore there have been grumblings

in recent weeks from Tottenham fans, of course, and people have seen mistakes.

Vicario has made not always been well with Vicario and so we have our conversations internally

around all clubs and one of the topics Jay will know on Tottenham heading into matches

is we're hearing whispers that Kinski may be coming in for Vicario.

So in that sense, it wasn't a total surprise and we've seen he's a capable, competent goalkeeper.

That said, it's up there to come and dread.

It's the knockout stages of the Champions League.

It's Diego Simione, the intensity, the atmosphere at the Wanda Metropolitano.

And we've not seen him for ages to prepare him for a game of any magnitude, let alone

this one.

That feels you with a bit of trepidation if you're a spurs fan and as neutrals, we're

looking at it and thinking, and one thing I'd point out is that when you look at that line

up, finally, despite injuries who are keeping some of their top players out, it did seem

in, say what you want about the formation, that he was playing players in the right

position on this occasion.

You had Archie Gray moved into midfield, you know, the front line looked capable of

causing some trouble as it proved on the night.

And it wasn't bad.

You've got Romero back from suspension leading the line.

But there was that anomaly at the back.

Not much talk today has been about what on earth was going through his mind not to play

such a senior player and over the course of his time at spurs, a dependable player.

If we put some of the mistakes to one side, certainly it would fill you with more confidence

than Kinski on that occasion.

And so there was the possibility that things would go wrong.

The nature in which it did was absolutely remarkable.

It was kind of you couldn't believe what you were seeing.

These errors, van de Venz, error, which shouldn't be forgotten about because I mean, there

have been a litany of them recently, whether it be disciplinary or actual slips and mistakes

on the pitch.

It felt very harsh to take him off at that moment, even though you understood the rationale

behind it.

If you've seen this sort of thing in football before, mainly without field players, it

would have been at half time.

They could have had a conversation.

We don't know exactly the conversation between players and coach.

He was asked about it post match in the press conference, did Romero tell you to take

Kinski off?

And he said, no, it was, it was my decision.

So we can only take that at face value, even though there was a conversation between coach

and captain on the sideline.

And the way that he ignored Kinski when he came off, it wasn't like, could I just add something

on Kinski?

So it was his Champions League debut and his 23 on Friday.

What happened last night, in my view, is the culmination of 14 months of poor development

planning from Spurs from across the club, because as David said, when Kinski arrived

last January from Slavia Prague, he played a few games in row because of a career was injured

and then he dropped out of the team again.

And since then, he's barely played a tool.

So I think in his entire time at Spurs, he's played 13 times in total, but this was only

his third appearance of the season, and the previous two went in the carabell cop.

Spurs got knocked out of the carabell cop in October.

So Kinski's not played a competitive game in five, six months, and you're throwing

him in at a deep end.

And as David said, it's Kinski's someone who's regarded as a really talented goalkeeper,

fantastic, expansive, passing range, but you've not, you've not played him for 14 months.

So what do you expect when you throw him into a situation like that?

So yes, Tudor should take some blame for making that decision, but also goes a little higher

up than that, because there's just been no consistency in how they're going to develop

these young players.

And that's something that's been a big issue for Spurs.

I know David touched upon Archie Gray playing in Central Midfield.

In Tudor's four games in charge, Gray's played at right wing back, left wing back, and

Central Midfield.

It's chaotic.

I feel for Archie Gray because his development is just completely stunted because he's

just shipped between whatever problem position Spurs needed somebody in that week.

He just performs a role.

So all of these things have been adding up over a period of time, and then they all unravel

in a manner that they did last night.

David, you know, Jay makes a really interesting point, and we look at the amount of young players

that have been brought into this squad and people talk about player development in so

many different ways.

But is it hard to develop as a player when the infrastructure around you isn't solid?

You know, the ideal situation would be to have a whole heap of experience around these

players.

So they're able to be filtered in through the season, get that match confidence, you

know, build their confidence personally.

And then we see what they might look like in the next two or three years.

Yeah, as far from ideal IO, and there was even speculation that Kinski was going to

go out on loan for his development.

He's gone from being taught about as a January loan to being called upon for an enormous

fixture away to athletic home of Dridan Champions League last 16.

If you think about the other top teams who at this stage of the Champions League, you

got an arsenal they could turn and call upon Kepa, who was the most expensive goalkeeper

in the world.

You've got Chelsea's say, well, you like about Sanchez, but there's an interchangeable

number one, number two there, where you wouldn't think there would be that much difference.

Newcastle, you know, I know Popes and I had the best time.

What they do, they call upon Ramsdale, who's made a worthy of a few saves just recently.

Manchester City James Trafford was meant to be Manchester City's number one.

That's what he was told by Pep Guardiola coming into the season when he signed from Burnley.

And they went and got the best goalkeeper in the world.

If they called upon Trafford, when they do, he seems to do a perfectly good job.

Liverpool, Marmadash Villy, one of the most highly rated sort of developing goalkeepers

in the world when he came to Liverpool from Valencia, and he stepped up his eyes like

questionable, you could say, but he's already sort of in the higher echelons of goalkeepers

in European football.

And then I'll extrapolate it over to someone like Susa, who came in in January as a new

signing.

Many of the conversations I had when I was trying to find out more about him was that very

likely he'll go out on loan for his development.

And that's part of the reason why Andy Robertson was targeted.

And Jay's talked on view from the lane about how important that potential signing would

have been and what a miss it was that it didn't come through Robertson's experience.

People raised an eyebrow at the time, why are they going for Robertson?

Well, you're seeing exactly why they were going for Robertson now.

It's a fair play for targeting for whatever reason it didn't come off.

There's some sympathy for Spurs in that, you know, we can go over the quality of their

recruitment and many of their signings, but there has been some method to it.

We've talked about it many times over the last few years.

High level young recruits like a Bergval, a Gray, a Kinski, a Mikey Moore coming through.

He's an example of where it works better because he's gone to Rangers, he's played really

well, high level intense atmosphere.

And you would like to think that if they scramble through to this summer and give that new

ownership, the old ownership that now has full sort of day-to-day control, a summer market

to recruit, to sell, to use what they've got from an experience point of view now, if

the likes of a Romero and a Vicario and a Gallagher are going to be there, blend them with

the Bergval's.

They used to go to younger players like Destin, the Odoggy, when he's fit, the Kinski's,

the Susers, the Mikey Moors, and there is an opportunity there.

And there are personnel when this is a much better squad than Tottenham's strife would

suggest.

But this is so bad that, you know, it's got the capacity to damage players, damage the

Bergval's and the, I know he's out injured in the grays of this world.

And that's why getting through to the summer without relegation is absolutely enormous

on so many levels.

And one of those levels, a massive level, is to properly blend the youth, the experience

integrate the youngsters, and try and get this moving in the right direction.

This is the Athletic FC podcast, with I.O. Akimolere.

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Indeed survive because we mentioned at the top four games four defeats 14 goals conceded

statistically.

It's the worst ever start to a spurs manager.

Now straight after the game, you were part of five athletic writers, along with Adam

Krafton, Oli Kay, Seb Stafford Blur and Dan Kilpatrick to write about spurs and whether

or not they should indeed sack two door.

What are your thoughts on this?

Well, spoiler alert, all five of us, which might be the first time in athletic history,

agreed that you should be sacked.

Now I'm not normally someone who calls for a head coach to lose their job quickly.

I think I'm pretty patient.

I like to see how things play out, but I had my doubts over to the suitability for the

role from the from minute one.

And at the end of the day, he was brought in because he had a track record of quickly fixing

broken teams in a short period of time, getting a knee jerk reaction.

And we've had the complete opposite of a new manager bounce.

Like you said, four defeats, 14 goals conceded, players being put in the wrong position,

players making very erratic decisions, a back five, but five goals are being conceded

away from home.

It's a mad situation.

I also think some of the comments that Igor Tudor has said have probably raised a few

eyebrows inside that dressing room, you know, after the Crystal Palace defeat.

He said something along the lines of, I've got a better idea of who is on the boat with

me.

And if you're not on this boat, I'm going to leave you behind, clearly sort of insinuating

that he thinks there are a few bad apples within that spur squad, which I think is true.

You know, we previously reported that Thomas Frank had issues maintaining discipline in that

squad.

So that's not a massive surprise, but really what's first needed after the end of the

Frank reign was someone who had an affiliation with the club like Robbie Keen, Harry Redknock,

Jermaine Defoe, for example, who could put an arm around the shoulders of these players.

I don't think Igor Tudor has the cultural capital after a few games to start criticizing

all the players and sort of kicking them when they're down.

He needs to do the opposite.

So I think he has to go.

But as we have seen multiple times in the last year, the people in charge of the club

at this moment in time, you know, the CEO of the Navankotession, swathing director

Johan Langer, they've got lots of the big, well, they've got all of the key decisions

over the last 12 months wrong.

And hiring Thomas Frank turned out to be the wrong decision, although Daniel Levy was heavily

involved in that, keeping Thomas Frank for as long as they did turned out to be the wrong

decision and hiring Igor Tudor has turned out to be the wrong decision.

So do you actually have any faith that if they sack Tudor, they'd be able to hire the

right replacement?

And I think the answer to that question is no.

OK, David and Nick Miller in his piece after the Atlético Tottenham match also said that

Getten rid of Tudor would be a huge gamble, but it looks like keeping him would be a bigger

one.

Are you hearing anything?

No.

At the time of recording, he remains in the job and we haven't had anything yet to suggest

he's about to go famous last words.

I think the rumblings before Atlético and after Crystal Palace in the industry, I must

say, rather than specifically sourced info, was international break, gives him Atlético,

Liverpool, Atlético again, and then they can assess with a bit more time.

There is obviously still time to salvage the Premier League season.

There are some winnable fixtures, not easy.

When you watch those first four games, when you see the lack of impact so far, whether

it was Tudor's fault, he says, deeper issues, probably a combination of both.

You sort of, it's clear that it's not working and there's no sign of under him it working.

It would be no surprise to me now and I'm just saying this is opinion rather than information

that he goes, maybe not immediately, but after Liverpool or indeed that international

break, just a guess.

If they don't, you sort of feel, I imagine Jay will be closer to the ground on this

with Tottenham fans, but those I speak to, and it goes wrong, how dare you not try and

rectify the error.

If they change him in the next days or weeks, they at least attempted to do so, whether

they stay up or go down, they attempted to do something different, they recognised it

was a mistake, it wasn't working, and whether it was the vibesman that view from the

lane has talked about so much and somebody a figurehead with real Tottenham connection

with that person coach on the training ground or not, to get somebody in to try and lift

the atmosphere, arm around the shoulder, give the players and staff a bit of love and

try and just scrape their way through, but the extent they went to bring him in and the

cost it would incur to get rid of him, no, no, no, the cost of going down is much more

expensive than firing Tudor.

So the way things are going, I'd be stunned if they see out the season with him.

What do you think Jay, is it time for a vibesman to come in and if they do twist on this,

once the right timing for it?

Yeah, I used to sort of roll my eyes a little bit when I was younger when people spoke

about bringing vibesman into a club because I just didn't quite get it and maybe that's

because for three or four years I covered the serene bliss of Brentford and there was

no turbulence in my professional life, how I long for those days.

No, jokes aside, I completely get it now just because there's such a huge disconnect

between all sections of the club, you know, as I mentioned, there were fans at last week's

game who left at half time, who were shouting at board directors at club staff, etc. and

you just want someone who the fans already have a relationship with and just for there

to be a bit more of a bond, you know, their next home game is against Nottingham Forest

just before the international break, it's very difficult to predict what that atmosphere

is going to be like.

Actually, that's a lie.

It's easy to predict what that atmosphere is going to be like, it's going to be tense.

The only chance of it being slightly optimistic is to get rid of Tudor.

We can talk about the international break, would maybe be a smarter time to do it, but

the fact of the matter is spurs this season is spiraling out of control, they need to do

something to regain any type of momentum.

I've not seen anybody message me on Twitter, on Blue Sky or wherever, say that Igor Tudor

should stay.

I've never seen anything quite like it.

Everybody seems to be in conjunction that he was the wrong choice and the right decision

is to get rid of him.

So it's spurs decided to cling on for a little bit longer and then make this decision

anyways.

It only looks even worse on them.

I don't know if he would be that surprised if he got the chop now because nothing has

worked.

His tone and messaging since he took over has been pretty negative and I don't mean to

criticize him for that, although most people in this position would come in and even if

things were bad behind the scenes, try and strike a positive note, but he's been pretty

brutal in what he's found and I don't feel he's revealing the extent of it.

In fact, he's saying he's not, there's stuff that he doesn't want to discuss in public.

So clearly there are elements behind the scenes that even he, I think he literally said

it is worse than he thought it would be when he arrived and that makes me think that

if he was to go now, it's almost be understandable from his perspective and put him out his misery

is not working.

Hang on, hang on, hang on guys.

E-Mars flashed up on my phone.

E-Gor-Tooler will preview Tottenham Hotspur's Premier League fixture against Liverpool

on Friday the 13th of March at 1.30pm, so that suggests he is sticking around.

Oh, wow, they're not twisting, wow, okay.

And just picking up on something Jay said earlier, I mentioned Venkateshum as Chief Executive

Langer as Sporting Director, but what about the ownership, the Lewis's sort of full control

when they booted Daniel Levy out.

There were so many views on Daniel Levy, but I think Spurs were Jay's second or third

in the Premier League when he departed.

So it was early days, but things were obviously looking a lot better than they are now.

The consensus in football seems to be that again, whatever you thought of him, he was quite

decisive in terms of he would have given Frank the boot earlier and maybe have appointed

somebody with a connection to Tottenham in a way that this regime hasn't.

And then you've got to look at who's making the decisions now.

It seems to be the Lewis family, the Lewis family trust, I don't think it's so much

enic because Joe Lewis is not allowed to be owning the club, which is why he put it in

the trust, but you speak to people around the situation and they sort of think that he

calls the shots, even if it's not in a formal way, then Vivian Lewis's daughter is there,

not a director, no owners and directors test.

Maybe more of a figurehead and a presence than, I don't know, a decision maker.

But then is it her son-in-law, Nick Buker, is said to be pulling strings and very heavily

involved in this, not on the board, not a director, no owners and directors test.

And Peter Charrington on behalf of the family trust does sit on the board and I think has

owners and directors test completed.

So you've really got to ask yourself, and we need to dig further and gain a greater

understanding of who's in charge here, who is making the decisions.

And is it Venkatesham and Langer, or is it the people above him, the Lewis family?

And the more people I speak to suggest it's the latter rather than the former.

And that is a massive thread in all of this as well.

Well, yeah, it does look like Igor Tudor will still be in charge at Spurs for the Liverpool

game, which is obviously their next match and actually Liverpool themselves lost in

Europe on Tuesday night.

So we'll look ahead to that next.

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You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Iawak and Malere.

Well joining us now, we've got Simon, who's Simon.

We were actually going to talk about Liverpool, but as you know, Tottenham hijacked that, but

you know, on a slot 100th game in charge, interesting one, but it wasn't a happy landmark

last night, though, for the Reds, was it?

Last night was another troubling night for Liverpool.

You know, in isolation, it's a performance and result that you can say, well, you know

well, it gives them a chance in the second leg, a very good chance because, you know, Galatasaray

at home, a very difficult to beat whether that's in Europe or domestically.

And I think the unbeaten home records stretch is pretty far.

I think it's like one's a feast in more than 40 games, you know, it's very difficult

place to go to, but you know, Liverpool played like this a lot this season, dominated and

had chances and just not being ruthless or quick enough when it matters.

And they gave Galatasaray a chance.

And despite the chances, despite the domination of the ball, never really looked like they

were going to, going to score.

So it was in keeping with a partner performance as this season for Liverpool.

And of course, very similar to the performance earlier on in the season in Istanbul, it didn't

feel like they really learned from that, that nice.

So yeah, I mean, I don't think you can, you can really afford to look at this results

in isolation.

It's been, it's part of the world, a part of behaviour of your leg from Liverpool this

season.

Well, no Liverpool manager has one more of their first hundred games in charge, obviously.

A slot is now level with Kenny Dalglish, David.

With that in mind, though, are you surprised by how quickly the mood has changed by the

fans towards him?

Yeah, and you understand the fan bases at all clubs, and they're so emotionally attached.

And when the bar has been set, as it has a Liverpool last season, with the title win and their

historic expectations in domestic and European competition, you've got to respect that.

But it is striking how big a groundswell of the supporter base seems to be dissatisfied

with slot.

There is still like a huge amount to play for this season that could change that, whether

it be domestically, not so much the Premier League, but of course, they're fighting to finish

in the Champions League places, but in the Champions League in particular, they can turn

that around against Galatasaray, and then they've got, you know, a couple of months with

a huge amount to play for.

Liverpool, from what we hear, are steadfastly behind Anna Slott, and, you know, he's under

contracts until 2027, and they want him to be their coach.

The hierarchy are determined that he is the man to get things right.

If they were looking at a recruitment process for coaches, he's said to be the exact

profile that they would be looking at, and that there's not people on the market that

they think better suit what they're looking for, that they're happy with him.

Of course, the situation needs to improve, and they think he can be the man to do that.

And he's happy there.

So I'm expecting this to go on, and that the club gets to the summer in whatever shape,

it could be with success, it could be with a lack of, and start to really try and mold

and blend this relatively new squad, which has lacked Alexander Isaac, British record,

transfer for the majority of the season, Florian Viet in his first season, who was the

British record transfer before Isaac, and other new players in there, like the Kirkers

and the Frimpongs of this world, Marmadash Ville, and then big decisions on many contracts.

I know people hated the phrase, sort of, transition, but especially when Liverpool had come

from a position of such strength and success, but that's literally what it was when you

have the volume of signings, and many fans and non-liver poor observers would say they

should have done much better in blending it together immediately, and that's a valid

opinion.

But I suspect, and there could be further change, what's going to happen with Muhammad

Salah, he'll be going into his final year, so will Virgil Van Dyke, Joe Gomez, Ibrahim

O'Connate's contract, which I think there's constructive conversation around that one.

I do think there is still a will on both sides, player-ang club to try and find an agreement,

it's not there yet, but the conversations from what we hear are continuing and are pretty

cordial.

We've seen Graven Birch renew, what's going to happen with Alexis McAllister, it's

quite early with his contract, there's potential contract for Sober's Lie, there's been

some reports in some places, so lots of different things going on here.

I expect a wide attacker to be signed like a winger, they were in for some annual previously,

he didn't come to them, but I think that's what they're in the market for, Rio and Gamoa

will develop again, and so loads of different things going on.

I don't think taking out the head coach is on Liverpool's agenda at all, even though

it might be what some fans want to see, but it is a really interesting time, and of course,

performance levels are Liverpool and other clubs need to improve, and that starts on Saturday

against Spurs, and then of course the massive second leg of the Champions League tie next week.

Yeah, Simon, David mentions the word transition coming into this season, was that a word that

many Liverpool fans would have thought would be associated with this team considering the

kind of business that they did over the summer? Well, I go back to last summer, and when Liverpool

made the number of signings that he made and invested him onto money that he did, I did sense

there was this assumption that, you know, that the good times would continue to roll. I can

understand that because it was an unprecedented summer of spending at Liverpool, giving the

achievement that reached last season that I think everyone just assumed that it carry on.

I mean, I tend not to associate that level of change with success, really. I mean, I've seen

it at Liverpool before, not the same amount of money, but remember, you know, the summer of 1999,

Gerrard Hulley, he made sweeping changes, it took some time for things to settle down to spice,

you know, that the quality of those players, not being quite as good as the ones, arguably,

that are coming this summer. The same maybe around, you know, people spoke about Kenny Dalgley's

before when he was managing, there was quite a lot of changes in his summer, it just didn't settle

down. So I always thought that this season, you know, would be, it would be an achievement really

if the challenge for the league title based around the level of change, and based around, you know,

what has happened at the club over the summer with Diego Giotta. I just think those two factors

didn't necessarily lend itself to the level of success that people were sort of dreaming of.

So I haven't been that surprised by Liverpool struggles this season, this has happened before,

you know, on the Yergen Club as well, previously. So, you know, just because one season is successful,

it doesn't get easier the next season gets harder. And for me, the disappointment is, I think, I think

previously, when they won the league, they probably didn't invest enough in response to that, and they

didn't act quickly enough, albeit there was the context around COVID at the time, and the club

was just being quite cautious around what it did. This time they'd gone the other way, and it's

sure to have been met with the same results in terms of the Premier League anyway. So, yeah,

I mean, I felt at the start of the season that the best of this team will be seen next season,

really, when things have settled down. But, you know, people understandably get carried away,

I mean, Liverpool were doing things that they haven't done ever in the club's history,

you know, expanding 120 million pounds plus on a striker, another 70 million pounds on another

striker, you know, this sort of, this sort of action creates excitement. But, you know, I think that

a lot has gone against the manager this season, you know, in terms of the injuries as well. I mean,

it's not very, it's not a thing that people really want to talk about or listen to.

People just assumed that the squads are so big now that they can absorb these challenges, but

you know, I see a lot similar in Liverpool's performances at certain times this season,

as last season, with the difference being the results, small differences at the top end of the

bottom end of the pitch at certain times. There were a few grumbles even last season, you know,

people saying, is this really the style of Liverpool? You know, is this really the sort of patience

patient way the way what we identify with? I mean, just finally, I would say that last night,

against Galatasaray, it was really symptomatic of Liverpool all the way through the season,

in terms of the way they started the game, two big chances in the first couple of minutes.

And it was almost like, another big chance will come along, you know, we just trust ourselves,

there was no urgency. Galatasaray scored, and then suddenly they were all over the place, you know,

bit too casual at times Liverpool. And I think people get frustrated when they see that. It was just

like, there's passage up a great opportunity to quiet in the crowd, put Liverpool in their leads,

doesn't seem like anybody was really annoyed by the fact that he missed an open goal.

It'll come again, you know, football doesn't work like that, you've got to be ruthless. And

right the way through the season, Liverpool just haven't been ruthless enough.

Okay, Jay, let's leave the last word to you. Let's finish as we started with Spurs.

Obviously, they're off to Anfield, next with Tutor in charge.

Do you have any hope of Spurs getting anything at Anfield?

Not really. I actually think the only thing which works in their favour,

is that they are playing away from home, because the atmosphere is so bad at the Tottenham Hotspur

stadium at the moment. And their form there's been so bad for a prolonged period of time,

stretching back to even last season when Angela Posta Coglu is still in charge. Expectations are

going to be really low. So I think most people are expecting them to get rolled over, or maybe not

rolled over, but to lose against Liverpool on Sunday. So maybe they can sort of use that us versus

against them and talenty to scrape a point. But Van Niven is suspended. There'll be question marks

over at Merron, because they came off with what appeared to be concussion last night.

Dave has already mentioned some of the other injuries. They've got a doggy burglow benton

called Kudos. So they are going in to battle at Anfield with very, very slim picking. So if we're

being brutally honest, I think they need to concentrate more on Nottingham Forest the week after.

Okay, cheers for that Jay. All right, Jen, let's leave it there.

So Jay, David, appreciate your time, and also thank you guys for joining us as well. What can you see?

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers with Guy Clark, Mike Stavrew,

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