Carlesha Freeland-Gaither

0:00Hello everyone and welcome dep so to 57 of the true crime all the time podcast I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime might Gibson. Give me how are you? I'm good, but it's more than 257. Oh 557 I'm not sure why I wrote to 57 down either But thank you for catching. Yeah, I appreciate that Like I know we've done more than that. Yeah, I got a little typo going. Yeah. All right buddy You ready to get into the episode ready? 22 year old Carlycia Freeland Gator was abducted one night in Philadelphia in November 2014 She survived her heroing or deal through bravery intelligence compassion helpful witnesses assisted with the investigation leading to her rescue three days later. So I think already You know, this is gonna be a different type of episode right you can tell that right from the get go in

1:002014 Carlycia was working as a nursing assistant in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania She had previously lived with her grandmother and Maryland for several years Carlycia lived with her grandfather in Philadelphia until a couple of months before she was abducted at that point She moved in with her boyfriend Carlycia worked with cancer patients and was pursuing a career in nursing and we Talk about it all the time. Yeah, you know, I have such a A spot in my heart for nurses My mom was a nurse for 30 plus years My youngest is in her last year of nursing school so My best friend's wife is a nurse just a lot of nurses love nurses and Frankly, what they do is amazing. It is you think about it. It really really is My youngest does have some pretty interesting stories. I'm sure she does. I will I will give her that

2:03Some funny some downright gross That you know She tends to want to share it to dinner table for some reason. Well, of course. That's when you do that kind of thing You know, I hate that. I know you do. I get so I don't like it. I don't want to think about gross stuff while I'm eating my Mim it really bugs you it does Surely before 10 p.m. On November 2nd 2014 Carlycia was returning home after visiting her godson She had just gotten off the bus in the German town neighborhood and was walking down the sidewalk in the area of 100 west culture street at 940 p.m. A car pastor and quickly parked and then a man got out and approached her Okay, I mean you got to kind of analyze that situation. Yeah, we have a woman Kind of late at night right walking alone

3:03People do it all the time of course, but inherently there is some danger there. Yes for anybody right in the city to be walking alone That's what we always say keep your head on a swivel Yeah, you always hear about you know traveling pairs if you can but it's it's not always practical. You can't always do it But then you have this guy kind of pass by on a car In a car not on a car, but in a car because that would be pretty hard to do Serving on top of a car when nobody else driving. It's not impossible Seems like something you might have tried in your younger days I might have but this guy kind of zooming by and then very quickly pulling over and exiting the car. Yeah What are you gonna think at that point? I mean at the very least you're your spidey senses have to Elevate oh absolutely like something's going something's about ready to happen And then it's probably not going to be good. No, that would be my thought

4:03A surveillance camera on green street showed a man reaching his hand out to Carlycia and her slowly backing away She tried to get around him and then he lunged at her and grabbed her After that they disappeared from view another camera showed Carlycia being dragged down the 100 block of west culture street and shoved into a vehicle So we just said right? It's probably not going to be good Obviously, it is turning out not to have been good right I don't know what in what scenario this would play out in a good way Yeah, is it possible that somebody just needs to pull over quickly and jump out for whatever reason Maybe maybe they think their tires going flat or Something like that, but when the person starts to come towards you It's just has to be a really bad feel. Yeah scary moment. Yeah for her it had to be you know very scary

5:05Now she did try to fight back against the attacker And then during the struggle she intentionally dropped her phone in glasses believing that If someone spotted those items they would realize something bad. I mean it happened. That's a good good stuff to take right I mean if at least Someone can look at that location and say okay, we know she was here at one point. Yes And it's very smart. Yeah At and I think if like we're sitting here there's no danger to us right here in the studio And we're able to analyze it and say oh yeah, that's that's very smart How smart is it when you're in the middle of this life and death potential Potentially a situation to me that's off the smarts intelligence. Oh, yeah to think about that Well at the same time trying to fight off your attacker So I mean I give her tons of credit. Yes

6:07for sure for this Carlycia said in an interview with NBC 10 Philadelphia a decade later You've seen on scary movies or crime movies But the first thing when a person takes you they ask you for any items that you have that you Contact people so I figured maybe if I just leave my phone since I'm pretty sure it was going to be taken away from me That somebody knew I was on my way home She said anybody that knows me knows that I wear glasses and I wouldn't leave them anywhere So if somebody walked by it was evidence DNA from my glasses and my cell phone which had my contact so again just really smart stuff. Yeah You know most people Don't leave their glasses laying around because they need them to see exactly most people Hold on to their cell phones with their lives. Oh for sure. Right. That's kind of rural a big part of our

7:08Being Anymore to we are so I almost view this as kind of like a A handsome and gruddle situation. Yeah, there's like is that handsome and gruddle where they're leaving the breadcrumbs? Yes Okay, yeah, I thought it was but then I was getting confused yeah for sure whether I was thinking about the right story or not handsome and gruddle Almost like that right. I'm leaving behind clues So someone can either Help find me or at the very least realize that something's going on here and Gotta get the police involved or whatever. So it's chapter four of my book. So the breadcrumbs as What a good thing to do or a thing that you don't allow people to do when you're out hunting Because I which book are we talking about here the book that helps you stay safe or the book for budding serial killers Because you've written a number of well volume two is the one I was speaking of volume four is the one you're speaking of

8:11Okay, yeah, you've branched out in a number of different directions You know you can find them whole box collection out there on cell today at a grudge cell near you So we get back to this abduction right the man overpowered And forced her into a gray Ford tourist The abductor hit her on the head with a hammer and threatened to kill her if she didn't stop fighting. I mean over the head with a hammer Gonna be kind of hard to recover from too many of those blows. Yeah, I mean, I know you've been hit with a lot of things over the years I've never been hit with a hammer though. That's You know, I get it you're fighting you're fighting you're fighting And I think most people know that in this scenario you can't stop fighting No, you gotta do everything you can to get away But the abductor also knows that as well. Yeah, so they're gonna try everything they can

9:13To silence you to keep you from fighting a man named Dwayne Fletcher was walking on green street near culture When he heard a scream behind him he ran to the scene just in time to witness a man forcing a woman into a car He yelled at the man and asked him what he was doing but stopped When he realized the man was armed with a 12 inch knife. That's big knife. It is a big knife that is either A k bar is a k bar that big can't yeah, can they get up to 12 inches in length or this is like a crocodile dundee Type knife right that's that's not a knife. This is a knife. Yeah, I can't do the Australian accent like you can but I mean, there are a lot of different people People a lot of different companies who make pretty big knives, right? But There are some that are kind of iconic You know when I was a kid my

10:14Biggest dream was to have a Rambo knife the Rambo knife Rambo was was huge right so vester Stallone and Actually recently watched a video about that knife It was made by this like world famous knife maker. Yeah, purposely for the movie is for the movie and He came up with the idea to have the The end screw off and have fish fish hooks and Matches and all that stuff in there the compass on the end and so you know Those explode them popularity big time Flea markets were selling them for like ten bucks. They were knockoff. Sorry, but apparently A an original from this guy goes for Big time money, huh? But that's that's what I always wanted Now at that age should I have had a Rambo knife? No, no, absolutely not. I don't know if you should even have one now I don't know. I'm not the most careful person in the world. You are not

11:18But needless to say I didn't get one my parents were pretty Protective. Yeah, there's this should be about things like that, but I want to get back to this guy, right? He's uh I think he's trying to help Right as a lot of people would if you think someone is in trouble and especially if you think a man is abducting a woman Right, who's not gonna want to step in and intervene? No, you have to fear how to handle this 12 inch knife Well, yeah when you find out that the person's armed whether it's a A big-ass 12 inch knife or a gun or whatever does that change your Stance because I think for most people it would yeah, it does I want to help But I don't want to die. Yeah, so you know, I got to figure out what to do So flatcher called 911 as he watched the rear passenger window Shatter he thought it was a gunshot But police later determined that Carlycia used a hammer to break out the window

12:22smart smart bad ass. I mean you got to give it up to her. Yeah. She is not going easily As you should not no, I mean, I mean fight fight fight and all the experts say that right. I mean Yeah, can it increase the level of danger it can but in a lot of these scenarios um These people mean to do you serious harm yeah, so don't make it easy no now again There have been many instances where people have gone along and they've been let go So You know, I'm not giving anybody advice, but I think most people would say most experts would say You're better off fighting than getting into a car willingly or or whatever According to six ABC she also hit the abdoctor in the head with a hammer But he was able to subdue her dwayne flatcher also picked up car leesha's phone and glasses and called 911 again

13:29After the vehicle sped off Unfortunately the police were too late in showing up. So there's a lot of things that you know are scary here But there's also some things I think going in her favor and Carlycia's favor. Yeah, she's fighting like hell She is you know, she's breaking out car windows. She's hitting this guy in the head with a hammer I don't even know how she got the hammer, but maybe um You know, he was distracted by this witness Who he then had to brandish the knife and kind of forgot about the hammer right leading her to get her hands on it But the other thing is there's this witness. Yeah, now there's a witness to the crime who's able to you know Pick up her glasses and phone call 911 all that good stuff I have some description of the individual the vehicle all that yeah, it's all gonna be good stuff for police But flood flutter was devastated telling NBC 10 Philadelphia. I just cried and cried

14:30I feel as though I didn't do enough at the time Yeah, I get that guilt man we talk about guilt so often because it does creep and uh, you know a lot of these cases that we talk about You know whether it's survivors guilt here you have uh just kind of a You know a witness who saw something Maybe feels like he wasn't able to do Enough yeah to save her I get how you would feel that way absolutely also and not sure this guy was armed so Is he going to take on this guy with the 12 inch knife? I don't know what your odds are gonna be Well, you've had a lot of confidence in yourself and you've been through some training on how to um Do handhand combat and get that knife away from him without hurting yourself. I think you're probably gonna step away I mean if you're a special operations badass then yeah, maybe you jump in and try to disarm this guy

15:32But if you're you know, Joe dad from down the street Who works a nine to five job and where's the tie? Yeah It might be a little tougher. Yeah exactly. Yeah, you know, it's an operator Yeah, most people aren't Jason stay-thumb in the movie no where they can just jump in and grab the knife and twist the guy around and We all want to be that we're just we're just not so badly most of us Carlycia's a doctor crossed into Maryland at some point he bound her wrist and placed her in the trunk of the vehicle She told NBC 10 Philadelphia that during her ordeal She thought about the 2013 movie the call and which a 9-1-1 operator Help save a girl who was abducted she said I was trying to figure out what the other young lady did to get out I felt more safe in the trunk than I did Outside the trunk

16:34Hmm, and I think that that call is that the one with um, what's your name? Barry Halle Berry Halle Berry. I don't know. I think that might be the one where she plays the 9-1-1 operator Oh, yeah, yeah, I think you might be right there's a couple of movies like that so I'm not sure What was throwing me was I didn't think that movie was that old but time flies so yeah But again, I can't say Enough about how intelligent this woman is oh she's she is definitely in survival Survival, yeah, or survival. You actually said it correct. That's a viable mode Yeah, I mean it would be easy to just crawl up in a ball and and just sob Give up and give up. Yeah, but she is definitely not doing You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat the sweater that goes with everything The perfect pair of pants or the tea you somehow always reach for first

17:37Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what quince does best Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere Organic cotton and marina wool. They're 100% Mongolian cashmere sweater started just $60 I have a couple of and I will break them out as soon as the weather starts turning colder Quince also makes premium pants fitted T's and polos and breathable Activewear everything at quince is price 50 to 80% less than similar brands They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman So you're paying for high-quality not brand markup and it's not just clothing Quince brings that same approach to everything they make from hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials And thoughtfully designed furniture Find your next fall favorites at quince download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash tcat Get free shipping on your order and

18:39365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's qui nce.com slash tca tt in Aberdeen Maryland Carlycia gave the abdoctor her bank card and her pen which she used as at an ATM She hoped investigators would notice the transaction and they did Yes, smart. I mean you could give them a fake pen, but why You know go ahead and give the pen and now they have a way to track Yeah, or you were at last. I'm right with you because if you're in that scenario Why would you not want the transaction to go through? Yeah, because You know police are going to be Monitoring your your bank accounts Then they're going to be able to get the footage from that ATM and and all of that Plus, what do you care about the money at this point? Well, yeah, you don't and you're fighting for your life And you hope maybe down the road if they need more money

19:39They'll use it again and that will give the police another update if you give the wrong pen Eventually the machine eats it and then there's no card to use again Well, that's true now some people might make the argument that if you give them the the pen They have everything they want now. What do they need? Depends why they grabbed you in the first place. I guess so it's you know There's some things to think about Police released the surveillance footage of the abduction as well as photos of the suspect at the ATM and a nearby Gas station so they they you know they got quite a bit. Yeah Luckily there was some surveillance around the area where she was abducted We know there's going to be surveillance at the ATM right there's a camera there right But then once you figure out where the ATM is then you're going to scour For surveillance at surrounding businesses and it sounds like they were able to find some at a nearby gas station The ATM images were captured at 601 a.m. On November 3rd

20:44The gas station footage was Time stamped 604 a.m. So it was just a mere minutes after the ATM bank card was you yeah Carleashes of doctor continue driving south periodically throwing garbage from the car In haver de grace maril he threw out a bag that contained a receipt from an acme Supermarket in Philadelphia and a bag of potatoes chips. Well, it's just wasting food Well, I'm assuming he had already eaten the potatoes. Probably did I don't think he's throwing out like unopened bags, but uh Yeah, this haver de grace I said that completely wrong and and a pretty recent episode and got corrected. Yeah, so hopefully This time I've got it right you nailed it. I get corrected a lot but you know a lot of times

21:46The next episode where that may pop up could be years away right and so the chances of me remembering it You know or not great, but this was pretty recent so hope that got it right A woman found the trash in her driveway now she didn't think much about it at first But later called the police after talking about the abduction with a friend Because by this point right Carleashes case had made headlines around the country there everybody's hearing about it Yeah, but that's still kind of amazing to me You know if you walked outside and you found some trash in your driveway I don't know that my first thought would go to Well, what unsolved cases or yeah current cases are happening, but um, I think uh You pick it up and just throw it in the trash a lot of people would a lot of people would Using the time and date on the receipt police found footage of the suspects on the supermarkets surveillance camera

22:51He purchased the same chips that were discarded along with the receipt So I mean it's good police work it is But it's also aided by unbelievable witnesses and people coming forward. I mean where you would Bad scenario, but where you want things to go Just the right way things are going just the right way To help assist the police yeah because you know police are Usually pretty good at what they do, but they still need help they do right? Any tips and he leads all of that and they are getting some When releasing surveillance footage and images on November 4th Authority said they didn't know who the suspect was and we're seeking the public's help and identify him Authorities in Charles City County, Virginia recognized the man as the suspect in the abduction and sexual assault of a 16-year-old girl in

23:53October 2014 DNA evidence from that case was run through a national database And on October 28th authorities identified the perpetrator as 37-year-old Delvin Barnes The 16-year-old victim also identified Barnes from a photo lineup of mugshot. Wow so I mean Again, they're getting a lot of help That's important this time help is coming from authorities and another jurisdiction But it leads them to identify this perpetrator Surveillance footage had also captured the name of a dealership on Barnes's car Authorities contacted the dealership and learned that a GPS tracker had been installed When Barnes purchased the car and security In case he didn't make the payments because they wanted this security. That's a big plus Yeah, and I don't know if people always know that

24:58I think I've heard of other stories before where GPS trackers like this have been installed, but it's not something that is disclosed Rental car businesses do that. Yeah, you know, no a rental car I could understand, but You know when you're buying a car I get it you stole a money on it, but I would think they'd at least have to tell you, but maybe they don't yeah, I don't know I just know I always disable any on my vehicles. Well, I know you have you know some pretty fancy equipment to get around spying GPS I don't know why people are always wanting or you think they are trying to Bug you track you I don't know what I go through a lot of aluminum foil. Yes, you do As time passed Carlycia's friends and family worried that they would never see her again

25:59Now reflecting on her ordeal years later Carlycia described how she tried to protect herself by staying calm Listening and going along with what barns wanted she told NBC 10 Philadelphia I kind of just tried to go along with everything. I thought that would probably be best I thought fighting would turn out to be the worst thing that could happen because again I didn't know the person or who I was dealing with so talking was great He told me stories about other people which I later found out there were other victims And he talked about the next I guess thing we were going to do And how we were going to escape So I just got done talking a lot about how brave she was how she fought And how it can be kind of a double ed short. I think at a certain point She did realize she wasn't getting away So she had to change up her tactic and you know try to be a little more friendly go along with things a little bit

27:03And and I think that's smart and then of itself as well But you got to read the situation. Oh, yeah At first you're trying to get away She doesn't She's subdued She's captured She's probably starting to realize she's not going to be able to get away So then she changes up her tactic And that's a smart individual right? Yeah, I really do I do think that She learned Barnes was trying to get to Virginia to visit his daughter She said I know he constantly talked about his daughter And there were times when he would take out his phone To listen to voicemails of his daughter talking So I thought maybe we could go with that topic and hopefully it would touch his heart and he'd maybe Consider things he was doing I mean, that's just using good knowledge You know what you just learned about him. Yep, and using it for your benefit. Oh, I think yeah go back to what she said Right

28:03She started listening and really kind of taking it all in and this reminds me a little bit of You know the scenario where someone is abducted and Whether it's the parents or it's law enforcement oftentimes. It's the parents But you know one of the key things they say is to try to humanize. Yeah, the person right? They want the abductor to see their victim as human because That may make it tougher for them to harm them. I mean this guy's in love with his daughter Obviously so if you can make him relate to you in that same way Maybe you got a better chance maybe you got a better chance. Yeah She said his love for his daughter humanized him despite his actions She said I know some people might get upset when I say this I don't believe anyone is evil. I don't I believe people go through trauma in their lives And some people just do bad things Because that's all they know. Yeah, so I was really sad for him and just hope that maybe

29:05Hearing his daughter's voice and talking about it Maybe it might change him to want to do better. Is it weird that she's compassionate towards him No, I don't think so um I think she is looking at it logically You know because being compassionate is good for her. Yeah. I think she's being strategic. Yeah More than anything else Carlycia recounted how along the way Barn stopped outside a Chinese restaurant and the McDonald's Where she tried to get help in a discrete way She said really just staring at people or trying to get their eyes to To look I didn't want to say anything or do anything crazy because he was holding me So I didn't really know what to do. I'm pretty sure I could have ran or screamed or yelled But I just didn't know I was hoping that somebody would notice me But then again, I didn't see TV so I didn't know what was going on on the other side

30:11You know, you know, she says this here and how many times have you been out and Seen somebody to look at you and you wonder what that look is yeah are they needing help or they just Staring at me for whatever reason. I think there's a lot of scenarios like that not not that someone's in trouble But you know, you see something and you're like You just have this feeling like something's not right, but Then again, what do you do? I mean do you call the police every time you have a weird feeling Do you go over and you confront the person now probably not most people don't yeah my look I go over there and She'd be like I got a glass eye and no and no I was not looking. It's not looking at you Yeah, I just again, it's kind of like the calling the the police thing when you hear a noise Yeah, some people might but a lot of people wouldn't On November 5th 2014 authorities located the Ford torts and a shopping center parking lot in jess up merlin

31:18Plastic was covering the shattered window Giving agents a clear view of a man and woman sitting in the car Okay, well the shattered window might be a clue as well Sure, we know she did that with the hammer because the witness would have told you know authorities that FBI agents surrounded the vehicle Barnes jumped into the driver's seat to try to escape But authorities blocked him in with their vehicles And Carlycia was rescued now she was injured She was traumatized, but she was a lot. Yeah She was taken to the hospital for treatment and soon released to her family in a press conference Detective Jim Sloan said about Carlycia She's an intelligent girl. This is one of the more memorable cases It feels good to help out and have a good ending. Oh, I mean, it's uh A rare thing to hear sometimes. Well, and that's why I said in the beginning right this is gonna be a little bit of a different kind of

32:18Episodes. Yeah, different outcome. It's very rare that we're not talking about at least one murder. Yes, and uh It's nice when people get away, but you know a lot of crime stories don't end like that unfortunately Sloan also said that witness Dwayne Fletcher's quick actions likely saved Carlycia's life He witnessed it he watched he called the police twice if it wasn't for him I don't think we'd have the same outcome. This man is a hero. Oh, absolutely. He had you know He had a lot to do with it. Yeah, I would call him a hero I also think she's an absolute Hero as well super star For how she handled herself and and all of that Sloan said Fletcher deserved the $47,000 reward that was being offered for Empharmacy. I agree Yeah, I don't understand why he wouldn't get that and heck if you were

33:21You know if it was your daughter you'd pay the guy yourself if you had to get your daughter right absolutely that amount You know, we're not gonna be uh, well you might try to negotiate because that's just how you are, but Well, I'm not gonna be like that guy what's that Super wealthy guy that loud his grandson ear to be cut off Loud his grandson's ear is this real life for a moment. No, this is real life. This is the uh, he was a richest man in the world at one point Uh, on all the oil Rockefeller no Getty getty I don't think I know this. Yeah, his grandson got kidnapped over in Italy I think and he loud his he thought his grandson was setting it up And just didn't want to pay the money and then eventually he paid the money after his grandson's ear got cut off But you only he only paid up what was tax deductible And you want to know how rich people get rich So there's that

34:22Fletcher told NBC 10 Philadelphia the money would help but the best reward was knowing Carlycia was home and say And who wouldn't want $47,000? Absolutely. I mean nobody's gonna turn down $47,000 but It would also be amazing To know that You and at least some way helped save someone's life. Yeah, that has to be an amazing feeling Oh man Philadelphia police announced they were continuing to track Barnes's movements In the hours and days before the abduction They believed he was involved in a robbery the week prior. I'm not shocked. No. I mean We we we said right attempted abduction of another girl Now they think he was involved in a robbery It is a little strange that they're saying they were tracking his movements But yet he was able to abduct this woman

35:25Like maybe they weren't tracking him that well. Yeah, I don't know how I don't know that we were talking They were talking about around the clock surveillance The FBI had taken over the kidnapping investigation by this point Barnes was also charged with attempted capital murder abduction Forcible rape malicious wounding and malicious wounding Using a chemical in the Virginia okay, okay malicious wounding. I've heard of I've never heard of it with the added element of using a chemical. I don't think I've ever heard that before Got a lot of charges right now Yeah, he does investigators came out and said that there were some similarities between the kidnappings of the 16-year-old girl and Carlycia Freeland gaiter both victims were held for a few days And they didn't have any connection to Delvin Barnes In the Virginia case the team was sexually abused

36:29The teen's family reported her missing on October 1st, 2014 The victim told police She was hit on the head with a shovel and put into the trunk of a car She was taken to the home of Barnes's parents in Charles City County Where she was raped Barnes showed her pictures of other girls He claimed he abducted wow what a sicko man. Yeah, I mean this is nasty vile stuff I agree with you. He's a sick individual You know bad enough to You know incapacitate this young girl Throw her in the trunk sexually assault her But then you're going to show her pictures of other girls and say hey look here are the other Girls and women I've abducted Me sure sure some of my trophies with you here. Yeah very very strange Two days later he brought her into the backyard She was naked and he poured bleach and gasoline on her

37:32Burnder clothing and dug a hole He told the girl he was going to kill her and asked her how do you want to die? I mean you want to talk about scary Really scary this is a 16 year old girl who's been abducted sexually abused raped Now she is naked and covered in chemicals and gasoline and he's threatening to Settle on fire and bury her in this hole. I can't even imagine What would go through a person's mind When they're in that situation But when he was briefly distracted the victim fled into the woods She ran about two miles down a dark road to a local business Employees brought her inside and helped her she was naked Covered in blood and suffered from third degree burns from the bleach and gasoline. Man that is rough

38:33I don't even know how you Go from where she was at Running you know running away with all that going on, but that's his Intermind she knew she had to get out of there right she only had a few seconds. So she took off Yeah, I don't know how much of that is adrenaline Thinking a lot of it is I think probably most of it is fear All kinds of different emotions right Changes Maybe some things you're able to do that Maybe you wouldn't be able to do without that, but you know self-preservation is a big motive it is And I I'm with you. I think she knew not just worried about it Not a maybe I think she knew she was about ready to die and so Again, we talk about taking a chance This was the perfect opportunity. Yeah, and it worked. I mean if you stay you're right. You're gonna die So yeah, or if you try to escape and you get caught

39:35You're probably still gonna suffer the same thing. Yeah, you're back to where you were anyway And I don't know if that's what she was thinking, but Amazing that she got away WBP T spoke with the mother of the Virginia victim She's out about delvin Barnes. I just want to kill him I just want to kill him and I don't know how many people In a situation like this where their 16 year old Was abducted violated almost killed Wouldn't have that same thought and even the people that said they don't feel that way I feel like they might be lying. Yeah, I think so I get it. You're not a killer But you want to see that person Dead for what they did. Oh, yeah, and I don't fault anybody for that now. I don't You know say that you should go out and take justice into your own hands I don't believe in that But to to not at least have the thought I think people might be

40:38dishonest if they said that they never had it. Yeah, in a situation like this. I know I would Yeah, I would as well I'm having it right now and this person's not even a part of my family That's true I'm so upset with this guy. Yeah, I do something like this You know, it's like you say if you could just get in in a room with this person for 10 15 minutes. Yeah Who knows what what? Oh, we think we know what would happen I know what would happen with you because you might Speak softly, but you don't want to see the animal come out in Gibby. I'm telling you right now Well, or you have well mine comes out a lot you come out more. Yeah, it's even scarier though When you have a person who's very level yeah, most of almost all the time I've probably seen the animal come out maybe once or twice. Yeah, but those are scary. Those are scary Yeah, very scary moments

41:39Okay, folks. Here's something my younger self definitely would have benefited from and that's John Chime is changing the way people bank. They're nothing like the old traditional banks charging fees and gatekeeping perks and rewards. They have no overdraft fees no monthly fees No minimum balance fees you get 5% cashback on chime card and a category of your choice like gas or groceries All while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check You can also grow your money faster with the savings rate that is nine times the national average That is huge and if you're ever in a pinch spot me let you overdraft up to $200 fee free So join the millions who are already banking fee free with America's number one choice for banking Head to chime.com slash tcat that is chime.com slash tca tt sign up now. It only takes a few minutes Chime is a fintech not a bank banking services and chime card provided by Chimes bank partners

42:44qualifying direct deposits required terms and limits apply go to chime.com slash disclosures for details Oh my gosh, so you have this mother I understand what she's saying now she wasn't identified by WBBT, but she said about her daughter after all that beating raping choking all of that she got away and I'm it's it almost gives you chills it does to think about Anybody let alone a 16 year old girl who is in this situation But musters up the Whatever you want to call it to get away. I mean she goes through all that right all that Then she has to deal with the burns. Yeah, right because I'm sure Third-degree burns that's gonna be difficult. They're not good And her mother actually said the burns on her skin my daughter didn't look like herself It was devastating to what had to be had to be she also had a message for Delvin Bond

43:49She said god bless him You did not succeed and I hope your ass will fry in hell As everybody probably feels the same way. Yeah She sounds is a little bit about like Samuel L Jackson. Yeah, I hope you burn in hell In the days following the abduction news outlets reported on Barnes's extensive criminal history And he had a criminal record that ranged from traffic infractions To the use of a firearm and robbery To aggravate the assault and false imprisonment no shocker there It's not a shocker Now should it be a shocker that the guy is out walking the streets It should be but it's not Yeah, it's disturbing I do I start to worry about Our criminal justice system sometimes in that it just doesn't seem to have like much in the way of teeth

44:50Yeah, I think people just don't get much I understand reform is important You know you want to reform get these people back on track And I think in some cases it works well But sometimes I think well, I know it doesn't work. Yeah But when we do a case and you talk about somebody who's got You know a rap sheet that's a mile long. Yeah At what point did Someone step in and say We're going to stop giving this guy a slap on the wrist. Yeah, because it's not working Yeah, if anything a lot of times what you see is it just getting progressively worked. Yeah, it's great. So On November 28th Barnes is estranged wife returned to her home around 9.45 pm She had a protective order against Barnes due to past abuse When she went to bed around 1015 Barnes jumped out of her bedroom closet and tried to talk to her

45:52She told him to leave or she would call the police but he refused As she went to call 911 He jumped on top of her grabbed her face and began digging his nails into her skin wow He allegedly hit her in the face choked her and threatened to kill her He allegedly said he'd only stop beating her if she took off her clothes She told police she removed her clothes and Barnes forced her to have sex three times throughout the night forced her to perform oral sex and threatened her with several objects In the morning she begged him to let her use the phone to call her parents As she spoke to her mother She was able to indicate she was in trouble and asked her mother to call 911 You know, I don't know how she did that if it was just You know straight to the point, but I think all parents and kids should have some type of Word, you know or phrase that yeah, you say this you know that you need to do something on your end because your kid is in trouble

47:00I was thinking the exact same thing. Yeah I don't have that set up with my family But I can tell you right now after this episode We're going to yeah because you can imagine a time where Someone for whatever reason is able to make a call But there's someone right with them that is not going to allow them to say exactly what they want to say right and having kind of an innocuous phrase that they don't use ever But if they did it would mean hey, I'm in trouble that that's very smart Yeah, I think you just had to figure out what wouldn't sound Strange to the person over hearing your call. Yeah, but what's still trigger Boy, and it's got to be something that you can work in normally in a conversation. Yeah Maybe a little bit easier said than done, but I think it's doable. Oh absolutely. It's to for every family Yeah, a short time later the woman's mother and father walked into her home

48:05Barnes became enraged and Peter again the victims father ran into the room with the bath and tried to get Barnes off his daughter Barnes then allegedly began to beat the victim's mother ran into the kitchen and grabbed a night the woman and her parents ran to a neighbor's house to call 911 And Barnes fled the scene. He was arrested the next day and you know great on these parents. Yeah, right? They understood hey My daughter's in trouble mom and dad go over Dad's got a bat I'm not sure happens. I'm not sure exactly how this altercation went down But it's strange to me that he had a bat, but this guy was kind of able to start beating on The victim's mother and run into the kitchen to grab a knife and ultimately get away You know my best little Leppin is a My dad gave it to me. He had it somebody make him make him one of these one of these tire checkers in my tire truck checkers

49:10Oh You thump it against the tide. It's just melted lead wrapped with leather. Yeah. Oh, that's the great a great little hand I've heard a number of different terms for those. Yeah, they might be illegal in some places You might want to check the legality of the legal. I didn't think it was I still have it and because they're very very dangerous. Oh, yeah, yeah, you can really hurt somebody But if you're in a scenario where you had to use it I don't know that people would care about the legality at that point if it's if you're trying to use it to save your life That we'll deal with that part down road. That's kind of the way I look at it I didn't know I need to find a legal advice a legal piece of equipment to use to save my life I just would I just grabbed like the first thing I could find yeah In 2006 barn was found guilty of aggravated assault criminal trespassing false imprisonment simple assault reckless endangerment and other offenses. Wow, but he was acquitted of rape

50:17unlawful restraint burglary and attempted involuntary Devant sexual intercourse Okay, so Guessing they felt that they couldn't run with those so they went with the other charges Yeah, I mean there wasn't a lot there about why But I mean The ones he was found guilty of they're very serious right aggravated assault false imprisonment Things like that But it's just strange that he was acquitted of the rape unlawful restraint How is unlawful restraint that much different than false imprisonment And I don't even know what attempted involuntary deviant sexual intercourse is to me that sounds like right Yeah, very very similar. I don't know but this is kind of stuff that you know gets people really Pist off it does I get it prosecutors

51:19They got to work with what they they have and what they think they can You know Get guilty plea on and and maybe sometimes you drop certain things to Make sure the the water is not muddy for the jury And you know it's above my head, but this is when I think about that movie with jar our jar our butler and Jamie Foxx Oh a law-biting citizen. Yeah great movie because I'm like I get why You did what he did yeah Well, again, there you're talking about you know, what's a father willing to do yeah Of course he's willing to go he went pretty far he went pretty far. He's not the good guy in the movie but Yeah, he went way too far Barnes's uncle Lamar told NBC 10 Philadelphia that Delvin's father is a minister and he was raised by good parents But he wasn't necessarily surprised by the allegation not funny when you hear something like that I mean to have your uncle say

52:21Hey, he was raised right But you know what I'm not all that surprised by the allegations these are shocking allegations to most family members so that tells you a lot about you know this This guy and his record and what people thought about yeah Barnes said some men grew up having problems with women So they take it out on when apparently he's one of them and this is Donkel yeah, Marlboro right saying this on September 10 2015 Delvin Barnes pleaded guilty to federal kidnapping Charging in exchange for his plea prosecutors agree not to charge him for the case involving the 16 year old girl Invergine at his arrangement paray and e Barnes told the judge that kidnapping Carlycia was an act of desperation and referred to it as a robbery that quote turned into other things

53:27Really like kidnapping and yeah turned into other things is uh Extremely euphemistic right for what this guy did to her He said he grabbed the wrong person and that he needed money to visit his daughter before he turned himself in for the sexual assault and Virginia and I think he did grab the wrong person not that you should be grabbing anyone yeah, but You know, let's face it this woman She fought like hell. Yes, she did Tough and she was smart She did some things that Helped her not only get away, but helped authorities, you know, get this guy yeah On June 30th 2016 Delvin Barnes was sentenced to 35 years in prison He is scheduled to be released in June 2044 so you know 35 years in prison is

54:27It's not nothing. No, it's a it's a pretty Hefty price to pay. I hope they keep him there for the full term. You know you yes. Could he get out earlier? possibly You know Sure, he may come up for parole but um I mean when you think about it We've done cases in other countries where people have killed more than one person. Oh, yeah, and gotten way less so you know By that logic it's a it's a pretty hefty sentence In February 2024 Carlycia set down with NBC 10 Philadelphia for her first ever interview where she described how she survived her heroing or deal and we've used a lot of that right um as reference point Especially early in the episode. Yeah, she also credited witness Dwayne Fletcher saying if it wasn't for him

55:30I don't think I would be here today and she might be right You know what this guy did You know was amazing. They called him a hero. I agree with that. I think it's a combination of what he did and what she did Yeah, yeah, I think she might be selling herself short. Yeah, I get it. She wants to give the praise to him I give a lot to her yeah because what she did was amazing She said she was still dealing with the mental and emotional impact of the abduction She said I still get scared at times, but I really try to stay strong Because I now have a son and I try to stay strong for him Also, I try to if I can't talk to other people and reach out and let them know to be more aware of their surroundings Always have someone you're with Walking with let somebody know where you're at. I mean she's absolutely right. Yeah, she's lived it so she actually can Speak about it and we talked about it in the earlier in the episode

56:32You can't always be with somebody right if you're just getting off a work or something like that Yeah, you could be alone good, but where you can There is obviously safety in numbers to me the the bigger thing is Being aware of your surroundings. That's why we always talk about keeping your head on a swivel You know don't have your face kind of buried in your iPhone when you're walking in a parking lot at night. Hey attention Yeah, look around you know use your iPhone when you get home or you know, yeah when you're on safe on the couch, but you know i There's some things that are unavoidable, but there's some things that You know may not happen if you're paying attention and you steer clear Of an individual pay attention walk with purpose and you know, I get where you need to be Without hesitation. Yeah, but I also get the fact that you know She's still dealing with the mental and the emotional part of it

57:35It's gonna be tough to work through. Yeah and get over I don't know if you ever get over it But you learned to to deal with it maybe After the abduction Carly should took time off from work But eventually returned which gave her a sense of normalcy as she processed her trauma She received counseling and leaned on her family friends and co-workers for support Which I think is invaluable. It is right. You're gonna need some therapy After going through something like this, but you're also gonna need a very strong support system friends family Colleys She said it was nice to see your co-workers and colleagues and everybody who you thought you may not see again be there to support you It was really nice and I really just realized how much of a family we are and I love Well, I think you kind of mentioned it, but it's important to have that that feeling that You got people around you your safety Network, remember people got your back. Whatever you want to call it

58:37She also said that despite everything she had forgiven barns She said I don't think what he did was right and I do think there's consequences that should be there for him But I do forgive him and think everybody has the second chance to become a better person good for her I don't know I could do that. Yeah, I don't know if I'd have the same outlook on it But that's a very strong person right there. They can do that. I think it's a healthy way to look at it I know not all of us you and I Don't think we would be that person who's able to forgive The way some people can But she said for me to keep on living and moving forward I had to let part of that go and part of that is forgiving. Yeah, and I would think that's probably true But it is but I think you're better off if you can do it I just don't think everybody's able to do Yeah, I mean, I think if you can get to that point where you can forgive Then at that point it's probably not going to keep you up every night. Yeah as much and you're going to be able to move forward

59:42Easier and and you know not dwell on it as much maybe But you know, it's just a really different case for us. You know as we wrap this one up A couple of amazing people in the story Carlycia for one All the things that that she did how intelligent she was How much of a fighter she was in this witness Dwayne Fletcher He's often credited with helping Save her life and and catch this killer But I'll also go back to the 16 year old victim and how amazing she was After everything she went through to be able to escape and run several miles to get to help yeah, I mean that's Tough young girl right there. Yeah, with third degree chemical burns and she's able to To do that at 16 years old that gives me goosebumps

1:00:42But that's it for our episode on Carlycia free land gator Uh, what else she got? That's that's it for this Thursday Okay We love y'all we appreciate everything you do for us and we'll talk to you next week See ya. Bye