Clara Rector

0:00Hello everyone and welcome to episode 533 of the true crime all the time podcast I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime might Gibson. Give me how are you doing good, man? You I'm doing great. Yeah, 533. It's a lot of episodes. I've done 532 because you left me out on one of the episodes early on I did I did I don't remember why but we we rectified it and redid it with you we did and it was much better people said yeah So we're talking about Clara Rector when Clara Rector was arrested for stalking and harassing her pastor in April 2013 She shocked investigators by confessing to murder Solving a case that had been called for nearly a decade. Well, she must have needed to get something off her chest Well, yeah, we're gonna find out, but it's also you know stalking and harassing your pastor. Yeah, that seems like such a Strange thing you ever had anybody stalker harass you. No, no, not you. I'm not memorable enough for

1:08Not that I want to be obviously, but Yeah, I'm pretty plain Jane it'd be hard to stalk you Yeah, cuz I'm in my basement fortress. They'd be like after four days like I give up. He is not coming out Yeah, if you're doing the stakeout on me, you're gonna be sitting there for a long time. Yeah, gonna get kind of bored Tommy D. Hope was born in Houston, Texas on June 28th, 1955 He grew up with two siblings Tommy had a difficult childhood. He and his siblings were abandoned by their parents for days at a time And then they were eventually put into foster care According to Tommy's friend Brenda McKay Tommy experienced abuse in foster care and wasn't neglected and beat so horrible right Parents abandoning their children for days at a time. I don't know parents do that like how do you leave your kids alone? What do you do like get some food throat in the fridge or give them some pizza money and just be like I'll we'll be back in a few days

2:13Yeah, no, I mean How old were these kids at that time because that makes a difference? You're talking about a 16 or 17 year old. Yeah, you could go away for a little bit and probably trust them to take care of themselves But if you're talking about four or five six seven years old, that would be wrong, you know, so Incredibly wrong as you said and that's how you get your kids taken away from you. Yeah, now We've talked about foster care before It can be a great thing, right? There are kids who need a home And there are people out there willing to help Unfortunately some of those people aren't always the best people in the world. They abuse the system Yeah, right they end abuse the kid. Yeah, they're in it sometimes just for the money Yeah, and other times they're in it because they are just some sick individuals now hopefully as with most things That's a small percentage of the population most people are in it for the right reasons and want to do

3:16The right thing by these kids and they want to the kids in their lives, but Like with it with anything there are gonna be bad Actors or bad apples and any profession Anything you talk about in life. Yep. Nobody is gonna be all good. No, it just doesn't happen Tommy joined the military as soon as he was old enough Then he left the military in his 20s and he did odd jobs to make ends meet According to his obituary Tommy worked in carpentry and Lovery building cars. We like to work on with his hands. It sounds like it does By his early 40s Tommy was living in Camden, Tins, Missouri a small town near the lake of the Ozarks He had a lot of friends that he had met at local bars He worked as a maintenance man at a bar in Osage Beach You know one place I've never been but I really want to go is

4:18Lake of the Ozarks because of the series because of the series. Yeah, I knew it now I didn't realize I knew it was big. Oh, yeah, I didn't realize how big it spans Multiple areas as states. I mean multiple states Yeah, so I don't know you know what the best part of it is the God had to do some research on that I was staying on a houseboat and float around. I know that'd be great That actually would be a lot of fun. We have rented a houseboat once before on Lake Cumberland Yeah, and it was it was fun. It's a good time. I was younger Yeah, and now my dad was too cheap to spring for the air conditioned model So that part was not great because it was about a hundred degrees out. He's probably thinking There's a lake outside to get hot jumping. Yeah, no, I know of my dad was thinking he's saying I don't want to spend the money I don't want to spend a money. That's a that's a $50 right there. I can keep him on pocket exactly According to the lake sun leader Please had dealings with Tommy several times for alcohol relay defenses and one drug related offense

5:25Tommy was arrested two weeks prior to his death for possession of a controlled substance Charges were still pending at the time of his death. So Obviously, we're getting ready to talk about you know how he died. Yeah, who was involved But you know, it's important to talk about him as childhood kind of you know everything that he had going on in his life leading up to it Tommy was assaulted and suffered severe cuts to his face in March 2003 a man named Robert Lewis was convicted of assault and Unlawful use of a weapon in October 2003 in connection with that incident Lewis was sentenced to 11 years in prison some decent time for Assaulting somebody it is, but you know Sounds like to me warranted. Yeah, but also confusing because You know look back at some of the cases we've done You're talking about

6:26Incredibly heinous sexual assaults even murder Where somebody doesn't get 11 years in prison. You wonder if it's just um It's probably a combination, you know, is it is it just because the law is bad? Is it because maybe the prosecution wasn't as good on some of those cases Or the defense attorney was better or Jury was just more relaxed. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's a bunch of different factors like you said, right? Some of it's just the time. Yeah, and how Some of the crimes were looked at how the laws were written for those crimes No doubt that laws Regarding sexual assault and sentences for those crimes have changed dramatically. Oh right over the last 40-50 years On the morning of April 28, 2004 Tommy's friends Cindy Christian sent him Brian Nord Went to check on him because they were worth no one had heard from

7:29Tommy in days Which was unusual right? He was a type of guy who kept in touch They arrived at his home around 6.30 a.m. They knocked on the door and received no answer So Cindy crawled through a window Inside she found Tommy dead on the floor and a pool of blood Tommy's body was lying in the doorway between the kitchen and living her so For you to go over to a friend's house because yeah, you're worried you haven't heard from him right I don't think most people jump to oh, well, they're probably laying dead in their house No, I'm sure when Cindy crawled through that Opening, she probably thought I won't find him here, but let me just go through and just double check Yeah, and then come across that body. No, we did mention some drugs, right? Yeah, so Could it have been possible that he went on a bender, you know, who would dose or or that but To be found dead and a pool of blood

8:32That's got to be unbelievably shocker. Yeah Investigators used luminal inside the house which revealed bloody footprints leading to the window As well as prints on the window frame. That's not cheap luminal. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know you use a lot of it I don't know why I carry it with me, but you do have a A really large supply of it. You need to know that things are cleaned up. Okay for you know Whatever reasons and that's the only reason that you can really tell right? I want to know my kitchen looks good again, you know, like there's nothing I need to worry about, you know Did I ever tell you that my wife wanted one of those black lights? Oh, did she? Yeah, because she wanted to know if the the puppy was Wean on the carpet. Yeah, and Very quickly found out that you should never use a black light in your house because as clean as you think it is It's not she didn't come down here and use it itchy. No, that's good She really mean, but you know how my wife is about cleanliness. Oh, yeah, and she thinks like this

9:37places Spotless would she just very clean it is clean because I mean from the stairs up. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm talking about Yeah, but you shine that black light There's stuff everywhere. Oh, yeah, I mean don't even know what it is Yeah, so the autopsy found that Tommy died from eight stab wounds to the torso and left arm And he had a laceration on his neck the medical examiner determined he died three or four days earlier On the night of April 24th or the morning of April 25 so that does you know kind of go along with the timeline right friends Hadn't heard from him in a few days That's when they started getting worried and it sounds like at least you know from the medical examiner that He had been dead for three or four days And that would be even worse to come into that home where that body's been sitting there for like three days Just festering. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's never gonna be good, but

10:41Right, obviously the longer the body is there the worse it's gonna be yeah Tommy's friends told investigators he used drugs as a means to cope with the trauma He suffered in his childhood and while in the military Not surprising. No, I think a lot of people use drugs Andor alcohol to cope with trauma You know right later wrongly you can look at it a bunch of different ways, but I do think a lot of people use that as a Way to cope. I mean people want to fill them. They don't want to fill the pain the pain Yeah, and that's one way to to do it Camdenton police chief Jeff Bocha said Tommy kept a variety of drugs in his home such as math marijuana and cocaine and people came over to party and use his drugs regularly So yeah, I mean you're getting you know when you talk math to me That's like There's math and there's marijuana. How were you think about marijuana? Whether you think it should be legal or not

11:48I I know people who use marijuana. Yeah, I don't know anybody who uses math or at least has told me they use math But I just feel like these are on way different levels They are and then maybe somewhere in between his cocaine. I don't know. Yeah, I've told you that story cocaine has always scared me and I would never want to try it Because I remembered Lynn bias the basketball star that I grew up watching yeah when I was younger He died Allegedly from trying it one time. That's what we were always told right after he got drafted so But I don't know I always think of method and maybe that's the breaking bad in me But math is being like this really hardcore nasty drug Not good for you. Oh, I don't think any of them are real good for you, but yeah, stay away from math Yeah, definitely Tommy's friend Trisha Strauss told the investigators that Tommy had recently been seeing a married woman named Clare Rector

12:53Clare's husband Jason New about the relationship and didn't like didn't like it. I don't like it. She's shocking shocking Now from what I understand there are some guys who are into that, but I don't think many It could be into it or they might be okay with it because we're like hopefully He'll watch you you And we're all good I just don't think a lot of guys would be okay with that I don't think so either it's also a little strange that it seems They seem pretty open about it Like it wasn't a well kept secret or maybe they tried to keep it a secret and the husband found out anyway Tommy told Patricia a few days before he died that Jason had warned him to stay away from Clare or he would be sorry So I think you know as an investigator In the very beginning you you have to look at this guy. Oh you for sure, right Tommy is found dead

13:55You find out that he's having an affair with this married woman her husband's Mad about it Clare Rector was born in 1976 in California Like Tommy she had a hard childhood and was removed from her home She was later adopted and moved with her adoptive family to the lake of the ozer Clare got married at age 19 But her first husband tragically died in a car accident shortly after she found out she was pregnant Wow, that would be some trauma. Yeah, I mean you're 19 years old starting your life Your pregnant all of a sudden your husband dies and you're like all alone that that would be Extremely tough and it was said that Clare used drugs to cope in the aftermath of his death in 1999 She married Jason Rector and they had two children Clare's father-in-law Jerry Rector told the Kansas City Star that Clare was the ideal daughter-in-law saying she's a great mother

15:01Hard worker and she's always cleaned my windows and taken care of my garden She's a great daughter-in-law because she cleans my windows Well, she's also a great mother. I'm in a hard worker, but I know it does seem a little bit strange Jason and Clare used drugs regularly Jason eventually got sober But Clare has still struggled with addiction in the early 2000 And I always feel like that would be tough You know when you have two people who Are addicted to something yeah drugs Maybe it's cigarettes and one of um Gets clean, but the other one doesn't Makes it tough right? What one is able to stay sober and the other one doesn't That's gonna make it really tough on the relationship it'd be like you when you had your addiction to the paper towels Like and you finally got off of it, but your buddy was still eating paper towels every time you got together Yeah, or like the time you were addicted to tell its hubbies

16:03And you finally got away from the tell its hubbies and roughed 15 or something like that rough period in my life, but You can't even keep on with the rules because it's so outlandish Then at 17 years old I would be into the tell it to just see it right now. You probably like the green one I don't even know what the tell it to be sorry to be honest. Oh Oh my gosh, but I do think it would be hard. Yeah, it would be You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat the sweater that goes with everything The perfect pair of pants or the tea you somehow always reach for first Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what quince does best Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere Organic cotton and marina wool They're 100% Mongolian cashmere sweater started just $60. I have a couple of and I will break them out

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18:06You know, I had a shitty life you had a shitty life This drug makes me feel good. Oh, you say this makes you feel good. Let's do it together and and they were Both kind of using drugs to cope with that yeah the bad trauma from their past Clara left Jason and moved in with Tommy before she went to rehab in 2003 and then she ultimately Reconciled with Jason Yeah, maybe she realized you know, Tommy was not good for her You know, and you need to go back to Jason or something else but again Tough situation for Jason, you know, yeah, you know, how many guys and maybe he just loved her so much that he was willing to take her back But you know for a lot of guys that would just be a pride thing Uh, non starter, right? I think it'd be difficult to take somebody back for most people for most Yeah, either way whether it was You know a wife taking a husband back or a husband taking a wife back

19:10Some of those can be tough, but it does happen. Yeah In early May 2004 authorities announced they were looking for a man and woman They wanted to question and connection with Tommy's death They didn't name the couple at the time The Camden County Sheriff sent a message to Missouri Highway Patrol at the request of the Camdenton police department With information about a woman who had an active bench warrant She was believed to be traveling with a man wanted for questioning in the hope case A week later police reported that they had located the woman sought for questioning But they were still looking for the man Now the couple You know, they weren't considered suspects, but they were thought to have information That could help investigators They lived and worked in the area And appeared to have left around the time of the murder Which is typically something very suspicious I mean Police are gonna think that right sure If you live in the area you work in the area

20:13This murder takes place and all of a sudden right after it you move out of town Uh Not it could just be a of strange coincidence Or it could be that you needed to get out of the dodge and that's this murder happened and You left yeah Now whether you did it or you just knew something about it and were scared Of those who did carry it out It sounds like that's maybe more what they were thinking But they still wanted to question them obviously Although those 2004 articles by the lakeson leader didn't name the man or the woman A 2013 article By the lakeson leader notes that Clara was interview in April and May 2004 However officers couldn't establish a connection between her and the crime really gotta make a connection to take it further Yeah, I mean You know the the investigators have such a hard job

21:15I mean are there some easy ones that kind of solve themselves with a little work Yeah, I'm sure there are but I mean how many unsolved episodes have we done oh man and You know you it takes hard work. It takes a little luck It takes a lot of different things to solve some of these crimes But to your point I think you can have All the hunches you want you can think that this person or that person was involved But it takes real evidence it does right to charge somebody to take somebody to trial Claire admitted to using illegal substances with Tommy Hope behind her husband's back and being at his home prior to his death DNA tests corroborated her statement and okay Probably good that you don't lie about being in his home lie about different activities because probably not gonna be that hard for DNA to

22:16Disprove it if you said oh now. I was never in Tommy's home. Yeah, then when your DNA is all over the place Now does that mean that you killed him Not necessarily. I guess it depends on where the DNA is found But we know a lot of people would say I was never there. Yeah, and then they would say well we have DNA Oh, oh that that house and then they have to change their story but it's also interesting to see the way investigators kind of Broach these different subjects and how they ask the questions Because in the back of their mind they know information and so A lot of times they're just trying to paint these individuals into a corner and force them to say something that They can easily refute and therefore You know that's when it's gonna start Them thinking oh, how do I change the story to make it fit the facts and that's when things go downhill? I almost think and I hate to say not in

23:18Disturbing what I but I do think I investigators probably get a rush Oh, I don't like so plain the game like you know what I like they probably go in feeling like they know the person Did it but they have to have the proof yeah, and so Okay, how can I get that proof without you know get this person to kind of walk into it? I don't think you I don't consider disturbing at all. I think that would be a rush like it. It's like a chest It's like a chess game and you're trying to outsmart this person who you think is a killer yeah And if it turns out you're right the whole process is gonna be Kind of a rush I think and you know we know we both love chess I mean I haven't stopped thinking about my last chess game against Alexander Schwarzkowski From five years ago You know I guess I got robbed because the little Hmm clock My side didn't work right yeah, and it's sped up quicker. I'm sure that's what would hinder your test your chess game the clock yeah

24:26Yeah, he got lucky that day other than that should be wiping the Floor with everybody all the grandmasters. Well, he wasn't a grandmaster. He was seven years old, but that little bastard He beat you that day didn't he that was funny. I like that Oh According to oxygen, please also interviewed Jason who was honest about his dislike of Tommy He blamed him for his wife's drug use and admitted he warned Tommy to stay away from her So he's got a number of reasons not to like Tommy or not to have had light Tommy at that time Number one His wife was cheating on him with Tommy At one point had run away To be with Tommy and then came back. I mean the number one reason right there And then I think he did believe that Tommy played at least some part in her drug use I think they fed each other, you know that and some people do that. Yeah, yeah

25:28No doubt about it Jason and Clara both maintained they were with each other the entire time period Investigators believe Tommy might have been killed and that's a kind of a tough alibi Yes, you do have another person to vouch for you but it's not like your boss who has No reason to Disliked this person. Yeah, both of these people are kind of invested in the case right there involved in the case So how good is their word about each other's alibi? Yeah, it's like a significant other right? I mean, yeah, is your significant other gonna turn on you? Probably not Are they gonna lie to protect you? Quite possibly would your co-host of a podcast could go that route for you No, I know you would You'd be wanting that uh reward money. Yeah, I don't care about the reward money

26:28I just want you locked up for the crimes you've committed. You're like it don't make a good podcast too I'd turn you in for Jay walkin. Yeah, I think you probably have So there's no doubt that you know, police were looking at Jason. They were looking at Clara but ultimately Leach just ran dry and the case went cold And we see that in tons of unsolved cases, right At some point in most cases the leads are going to dry up It might be hot and heavy in the beginning and hopefully those leads to solving those leads Play into solving the case But if they don't as time goes by Just by the way the world works the leads are gonna start to dwindle. Yeah, yeah Flow leads will for sure the coverage will die down a little bit People will start to forget about it and the leads will dry up in 2005 Tommy sister genie Smith spoke to the lakeson leader and expressed her anger and grief over the loss of her brother

27:35She noted that Tommy was her only living relative Their brother was killed in a car accident in the early 90s the siblings had always been club And I wonder you know, we talked about what a bad childhood That they had I wonder if that maybe Helps strengthen the bond between the siblings. I think it probably does. I think it definitely could right Yeah, because it's like you Against everybody else You can't rely on mom and dad if they're gone for Two or three days at a time. So turn to each other I could see how the siblings could get very very close in a situation like that genie said She hoped by speaking up on the anniversary of Tommy's death It would turn up a clue or information leading to an arrest Genie was diagnosed with them as Because of her health and financial problems She was unable to travel to Missouri and relied on Tommy's friends and the police to fill in the blanks

28:40surrounding his death She knew Tommy struggled with drug and alcohol addiction, but still couldn't imagine What circumstances led to his death? Oh, I think you know any sibling friend Family member what would think I mean, I know he Maybe wasn't like the perfect person But he didn't deserve to die who would do something like this Yeah, and then they may not know of anybody that they can think of who could be capable of it But do want to talk a little bit about You know her speaking out especially like on the anniversary of his death I do think it's very important right to keep your loved ones Case in the limelight is is very very important We talked many times about Getting an unsolved case on something like America's most wanted or unsolved mysteries and how much

29:41Help that can be I think you want to keep it out in the spotlight as much as you can you know keep it I'm disappearing. Yeah, I just think it becomes harder and harder right this time goes by Tommy's manager Tim Cotan chick The general manager of the bar and restaurant Tommy worked at told the lakeson leader that Tommy was a good worker Friendly and was known for his jokes Kilker Yeah, you know, there are some of those people who they're fun to be around because they're funny They can make you laugh. They can make everybody around you laugh Maybe he was one of those types of guys, but it's also Pays to be a friendly and a good worker It does especially if you're The manager and or the owner You're gonna like those people absolutely. Yeah, the court Please also said they were frustrated The murder remained unsolved a year later, but they were confident Someone knew something that could break the case

30:42Hampton police chief Laura Webster noted that Investigators had followed up on all leads and had interviewed over 87 people and they said that Tommy's murder was the first in the town since 1995 I mean, that's a good thing. Well, it's a good thing It just also shows you that This is not a huge town probably right. They don't experience a ton of very very violent crime But also think we've heard on other unsolved cases where they're like we know this will be solved and then 40 years later we're talking about it. Yeah, and it's still unsolved Yeah, I mean, I don't know what good investigator Would have the mindset of oh ain't never solving this one. Yeah, you shouldn't be an investigator Right, they're always gonna be optimistic that yeah, we can solve it doesn't turn out always be true But I think it pays to at least have that kind of mindset As the years passed, Claire Rector became deeply committed to Christianity

31:45And she even started a Christian blog she credited her faith for giving her the strength to overcome addiction And she spoke to local media outlets to warn people about the dangers of drug use and that's a good story It is a good story right anytime somebody can You know overcome an addiction that is hurting them that's weighing them down That's a that's a great thing and then to even go further and try to help other people Warning them about the dangers of the things that you've gone through yeah, and it's gonna mean more because You've experienced it. I mean, we've got a good listener that Went through addiction with I believe meth meth or crack. I think it was meth And he has a large falling and he puts that message out all the time, you know and I think that's a good thing. It is a good thing I think when people hear That you might have went through what they're going through and you found yourself to a place

32:47We're no longer dependent on that and what that but what that struggle look like and yeah, we know it's not easy Well, you're gonna gain a lot of credibility with that individual well, that's true because you've you've been where they are Yeah, yeah, I I can't talk about it because I've never been addicted to drugs So I can sit here and say don't do drugs, but it's not gonna mean much to anybody because I can't relate You can just don't eat paper towels and don't overplay with tell a tubbies. Yeah Now that I can relate to yeah She wrote as quoted by the Kansas City star I searched high and low for the answer by trying different drugs and alcohol to the point that I became an addict and Am still daily in recovery from addiction I thought the love of men would fill the void but promiscuity wasn't the answer everywhere I looked everything I tried I was unable to fill the god-shaped space in my heart

33:50You know, I hear a lot of people say that that they tried to fill that That void with you know a relationship Mm-hmm And if I get into a relationship then maybe I'll be okay But actually it turns out sometimes you hear that makes it worse. Yeah same can go for people or couples Right having a rough time thinking well, maybe a baby will make it better. Yeah, maybe it does Maybe it doesn't yeah, and I know that recovery is not a it's not a one in done No, and she and she says that right yeah, she became an addict and she still is because once you are You always are yeah, once an addict always an addict So she's got this blog and In it she described her Catholic upbringing and how she began using drugs after losing her first husband She wrote in another blog post I believe that Jesus died on the cross for the redemption of all people

34:50Even me she wrote that only by asking God for forgiveness could she be ready so it does sound like right she Found God or she found Christianity or whatever you however you want to phrase it and that played a big role and You know becoming sober yeah at least that's what she was putting out there Claire also published a poem on her blog titled to the greatest father and the final verse she wrote For freedom from my past and forgiveness of my sins the only thing I had to do was open up believe and let Christ in On April 21st 2013 the Camden County Sheriff's Office was called to the Camdenton Bible Baptist Church Pastor Jerry Sousley reported that he was being stalked by congregant Clara Rector, okay, so all right. We're taking it a kind of a De-vergent path here. You know she

35:53Was addicted right to drugs She was looked at in The death of Tommy Hope and then she's now she's got this blog where she's saying, you know she believes in God she believes in Christ. She's sober But she may be stalking her pastor and this could be her new addiction is this you know Good church with Christ with the pastor Apparently the stalking began back in July 2012 According to the leg son leader Pastor Jerry received multiple notes and phone calls from Clara Regarding inappropriate matters of a sexual nature Okay, I hope people are seeing that on video because your face was really strange When you when you said oh, okay, what does that mean? What does it work? It is kind of it's not funny, but it's it's strange

36:57You know, this is you think you're you're in a house of worship right you're in a church You're listening to what is supposed to be you know some pretty deep stuff I think a lot of times in church and you're passing Sexual notes to the pastor just trying to farewell. Well, what's what's in what's the inappropriate? Mattersly it had to be pretty pretty shocking for me. Well, no because I think Basically anything of a sexual nature between you and your pastor would be in a pro-lust For you in appropriate is on a much different level because there's probably not much that you don't do or wouldn't do That's what you were trying to say Oh, I don't know about that. I think anything even regarding Wanting to have sex would be inappropriate because of the relationship that is supposed to go on between pastor and Congregate person of cloth How about that? So Clara lashed out after he rebuffed her advances the message is escalated

38:03And then some started even appearing on his windshield although put it on the windshield message Okay, it's one thing to write some naughty stuff right down on a on paper and Hand it to somebody It's a whole different thing to write naughty stuff on the windshield where everybody can see it You know depending on how dirty this was No matter what it's going to be embarrassing. Yeah, it could get real embarrassing good Depending on how graphic the messages were on April 19th jerry found a notebook in the church In which Clara described her sexual fantasies about yeah, that would be We're to read yeah from his standpoint. Oh, yeah, no doubt But I do kind of want to go back to one of the things that Clara said in her blog and You kind of touched on it, but it was her

39:03Kind of using men being promiscuous to try to fill Something yeah, I mean is she now doing it again, but with her pastor is almost what it sounds like I feel like it's Feeling that void and it's another level of an addiction. Yeah, I think you might be right about that Jerry stapled the notebook and an envelope and gave it to the church secretary who was Clara's mother-in-law Well hold hold the horses and this is getting really weird. Yeah Hey Got this notebook from your daughter-in-law It's pretty inappropriate I would heal it. I went ahead and sealed it up whatever you do don't open it But can you put this away somewhere? While the secretary turned around and gave it to Claire's husband Jason Who allegedly disposed of the notebook per the lake sun leader and we already talked about Jason Knowing that Clara at one point

40:04Cheat it on him right with Tommy hope and now he's discovering this Yeah, I don't think you could be too happy about I mean you get this notebook I'm assuming he opened it up and started and was reading through it and be like oh yeah I don't I don't think you get a notebook delivered in that fashion and you can Just throw it away you you got to open it. I'm thinking he's like you know from Page 16 to page 32 we've never done anything like that and you got it Detailed descriptions here and what you want to do with the the the the preacher. I can't even imagine what it would be like To read something like that written by your wife about another man No, I would really be tough to stop it make you sick. Yeah, it would be Be really tough down about it and I don't know how you move on with your relationship after reading something like that Well, apparently he was able to move on a couple of times before right because she had had

41:07Daliances with with Tommy. Yeah, I don't know Once you find out that it's uh not it hasn't actually become physical But that's only because he wouldn't let it Yeah, but to me it's just as bad Physical or not you you're thinking it yeah, so you're not thinking about me Clara then allegedly texted past her Jerry on April 21st asking for the notebook back Jerry told her not to contact him again I mean you want all the parishioners you can get but Maybe this one you can do without yeah, sometimes you just got to cut certain people loose. Yeah, I mean that's uh That's more headache than it's worth obviously that day Clara tried to enter the church and was arrested She was charged with stalking and harassment According to Jerry's police statement at one point Clara threatened him by saying Jerry if you tell the law what you know about me

42:08I will destroy you. I will effing destroy you I guess the sweetness out of her Well, it there's a quite a bit of dichotomy right between Her actions and what she's writing in this Christian blog. Yeah And the the things that she's espousing in there Her actions in real life don't seem to conform with that type of stuff You know she's saying you better not say anything. So I just wonder I don't know how with the legalities or behind it. I know like if you go see a psychologist You can tell them things and they're not allowed by their License law to Do anything? I'm telling anybody about it. Yeah, unless you've threatened to kill somebody There's some caveat to right to those things. What are ministers have the same they have something similar Yeah, they have something similar same with the turnies and Yeah, stuff like that

43:09but I don't know she just comes across so far as even now and What is supposed to be like her Reformation right she's sober She's found religion but yet she is doing some very wild stuff here and When Jerry is not into it she's basically saying don't you rattle on me? Yeah, I will destroy you According to oxygen Claire was referring to a prior counseling session with Jerry where she admitted to killing a man. Okay So now we're you know kind of on to what you were talking about that could be part of the reason why he was turned off a little bit too Besides he was probably just a good person. Yeah, but that you know, even if he wasn't that that that could probably turn you off or should turn you Jerry was worried about his safety and his family safety he told detectives

44:09She started telling me about how she had left Jason in the kids and started doing drugs and got mixed up with the guy She just kind of put her head down and said I killed him Jerry implore Clara to go to the police and confess But she refused and that doesn't shock me right she's had a number of years to this point To confess if she wanted to I think The confession part for most people is tough because You know the minute you do that you're giving up your freedom. That's true. And that's why most people don't do it right And even when they are caught They might confess to certain things but they lie about other things they still try to The finish yeah downplay it or diminish their roles Detectives working the Tommy Hope murder case were brought into question Clara after she was arrested while she was in custody She confessed to the murder and she seemed relieved to do so

45:11So it could have been a situation where This murder was just weighing her down. I'm sure it had to was eating at her At least I hope it was weighing her down. Yeah. Now maybe it wasn't before maybe it started to after She got sober and after she found religion. I don't know She admitted to having an affair with Tom and going to his house on April 24th to obtain and use drugs She said per her video tape statement I snuck out of my house in the middle of the night because I really wanted to get high and You know if you want to Just kind of boil it down In a nutshell to why people shouldn't do these types of drugs To me that is it. Yeah, I mean obviously there's health reasons you could die from certain things But I think a large part of it is at a certain point Your addiction will make you do just about anything as

46:13Finding out to get that next high you got to have it Keep chasing that high she arrived at Tommy's home He wouldn't let her in so she crawled through a window They used up his supply of cocaine and then got into a fight That's gonna happen when you run out of drugs. Oh first you got someone Come in through your window that you said I don't want you in here And then they they're there next thing you know they're using cocaine together Yeah, and then you're like you then you're out. I mean But it's hard it is sometimes hard to make sense right of what people do when they're high Because they don't always make the best decisions and they'd all they also don't always do things that are logical When you try to break them down According to the leg son leader She became upset when Tommy Didn't save any drugs for her and she grabbed a nut She jumped on Tommy's back and cut his throat I mean think about that she was pissed because he took the last snort maybe

47:17And said yeah, I don't know screw you buddy and grabs a knife and cuts his throat According to Clara Tommy allegedly checked his wounds in the bathroom And as he approached Clara she stabbed him again So no bet you were supposed to go down the first time. What are you coming at me for? How dare you check your wound? Yes, he's probably like whoo man that almost killed me Wow Clara recalled in her interview I started like I hate you. I hate you and he was standing there against the wall And then he's like you know, I think you're killing me. I think I'm dying And then he just fell over that's what she said yeah Because she did she killed him. Yeah, but I also think like He probably trusted her to some degree they had had a relationship you know over the years and You know even when maybe he went to the bathroom and checked his wound to check his wounds He thought well she should be okay

48:18But he comes out and she just keeps stabbing me. I don't think and he's thinking I just took the last hit or whatever you know Surely can't be that mad at me. Well apparently she was and she probably also said don't call me Shirley She took the knife and Tommy's wall and fled back out the window Jason was waiting for her when she got home and she told him what happened He allegedly helped her dispose of incriminating evidence I'm still back at the point where she decided to just go out the window Stead out the door because Why go out the window when you can just open the door and leave but that's just me think yeah, I don't know. Maybe she thought The least amount of stuff I touched the better. I don't have any clue But but here we you know we get back to Jason and again, this is her alleging it sure But he's gone through a lot with her. Yeah, you know cheating um Later on this stalking and harassment of the the preacher

49:21But now she's basically saying he helped me Dispose of evidence of the murder clearly. He was in love with her and that was his person He just couldn't say no to yeah, I think you're right about that on April 24th 2013 both Claire and Jason were arrested Claire was charged with first degree murder and armed criminal action Jason was charged with felony tampering with physical evidence Camden County Sheriff Dwight Franklin said when announcing the charges is quoted by the Kansas City star Here was someone a member of the community had a family involved in church and I think it manifested to the point she couldn't hold it in anymore and I get what he's saying right he's talking about her later on yeah after Getting sober or she said she was sober finding religion becoming uh involved in the church

50:24At that point you're probably viewing her as This really great my remember uh, you know member of society sure But then you know you find out that she is a murder yeah The charges against Jason were ultimately dropped as the statute of limitations had run out Didn't know that could happen well I know that there is a statute of limitations on most crimes right there is there's not one on murder um Which to me has always seemed strange yeah because Just because you're able to elude police for x amount of years They just can't charge you they i don't know it just seems like a strange thing You know some people say statute instead of statute Mm-hmm fun and interesting Yeah, I might have said it before like that, but that would be incorrect No, you've always seen statute Well because that's the word yeah Well Well, you know, I watched a lot of crime shows right and I hear like

51:27Police officers say it oh really and they also say Cooperate really yeah Collaborate instead of corroborate huh Cooperating events or something like that. I know a lot of people say like that I say some weird things that aren't right too, but well you can't get one city in the state of Missouri correct No, or Oklahoma Clara was supposed to go to trial on july 21st 2014 But the trial was delayed for unspecified reasons on November 10th of that year Clara was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 15 years in prison According to oxygen She was supposed to be eligible for parole in January of 2024 Oh Did you have to roll your eyes look up and around to figure that out Mensa as you drink out of your Mensa cup. Yeah, I just I

52:28Did it for theatrics. Oh sure Three atrix You just cracking yourself up this is what you say you know you're not a you know a camera right now I'm like oh, maybe we are no you are on camera, but so obviously this got Pushed down to second degree. Yeah, 15 years in prison Kind of light. I think it's very light. I mean she went through the window He said don't come in here. She went through the window Yeah, they did drugs together. So kind of like well, you thought or not to come in But then you okay when if she was in there, but then she Took the knife not only made it attempt to once but then followed up with the second time The only thing I can think of is that They they couldn't Maybe get first degree because they couldn't prove that she went there to kill him But I don't know if you cut somebody's throat or attempt to cut somebody's throat And they go into the bathroom to check their rooms and when they come out you stab them again

53:33Okay, that's where I think it's first degree it seems like it would be but that's that's the only thing I can think of yeah But yeah to me for what she did 15 years in prisons is light and to think she was eligible for parole in in 10 That she could have gotten out in 10 years For what she did the problem is Couldn't find any published reports about her parole hearings or her release date If you look clear up on the Missouri DOC offender search page her assigned location is a correctional center which Suggest that she is still incarcerated And that's always interesting right to look these people up who are still in jail and see what it says about them But it doesn't surprise me that there's not been a ton written about her We do see that often You know in the beginning All the way up until like the trial and the end of the trial there can be a lot of cover there can be

54:34And then after that Unless there's something huge that comes up Not a lot Media the media loses interest even when people get out sometimes it's not really covered that. Yeah, it's just not Newsworthy for most media outlets. So you know as we wrap this one up gives One of the reasons why I found it very interesting is it's a pretty uncommon example right of a killer Confessing because of what seems to be like their immense amount of guilt. Yeah Now did some of that have to do with how her life had changed over the years Yeah, I think it could have But were it not for Claire's spontaneous confession after she was charged with stalking and harassing her pastor Tommy hopes murder might have gone unsolved My half for either Many more years or forever. You know, we just don't know

55:39Just such a such a strange case. It really is. I mean you think about it But like you mentioned luckily she came clean Yeah, because I I think she was on the radar Yeah, but that I don't think they had what they needed to know they they didn't or they would have charged her And I don't know that they would have ever gotten it because years had gone by and they still hadn't no, I don't think they would have because at that time I mean you still had Clara and Jason protecting each other too That is true. Yeah, and that does kind of shed some more light on Them giving each other an alibi because now we find out That not only did she commit the murder, but he helped her dispose of evidence right so Not too hard to think that They were each other's Alibis as well. So that's it for our episode on Clara Rector I found it extremely fascinating. But you too. It's also it for another episode of true crime all the time

56:40So for Mike and Gabby stay safe and keep your own time ticking