CO-HOST | Make Money by Redefining Traditional Gender Roles, part 1

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Hi, galley. But there's been, yeah, dude, I mean, I'm sick of Jesse and Jordan, right?

Every episode, it's like the shoving Jesse and Jordan in our faces. Don't care.

Are those girls or guys? It's a couple. Okay. And then which is which one's the girl?

Jesse? Those are both names that could be one or the other.

True. So these are the girls that Jordan's the guy. Yeah. I mean, if you want to call him a guy,

I prefer to call him a man child. Am I right? Everybody. And then Taylor and Dakota,

like I'm over it, dude. Like, yeah, you're authentic. I don't know which one of those is the guy.

It's like keep, keep, you know, these are all very entertaining or changeable names.

I just, yeah. So I'm just really not feeling that. But, but there's little snippets of things that I

am interested in. Like Jen and Whitney on day of time with the stars. I was waiting and waiting.

Like get into that totally because the whole season, you know, Whitney would do a live and she'd

be talking, you know, throwing a little shade. Jen would be throwing a little shade.

And you knew they were like supporting each other, but you knew behind the scenes.

Trouble was a ruin. Oh, yeah. And they're starting to to deliver some of the behind the scenes

drama. And it sounds like I'm being sardana care. But I really was invested in this storyline that

I needed. Oh, I know what was happening. I know. But there's a there's a piece of the storyline

that I think is really interesting. If it wasn't for Disney's aggressive lawyers, I would show you

the clip. But basically one of the things that shows up in the show is that Jen, who's one of

the gals on dance with the stars, her husband is a very Mormon, very controlling dude. I don't

want to put that, you know, I won't put that on Mormonism. There's a lot I can put on Mormonism.

Okay. I'll just say because some of the other guys are Mormon. So they're sort of solid.

What? Like, like, patriarchal. He's just, he's a very, you know, guys that are like the only way I

can be big is macho. The only way I can be big is keep you small. Yeah. You know, like, that's

that kind of guy. Yeah. So, so Jen is one of the gals on dance with stars. Whitney is the other.

Okay. Team Whitney, right? Sure. Is that what you wrote? That's what I voted for every episode.

And I'm opposite. Don't Jen. Don't be. But anyway, so they're both on the show. And there's a lot

of dialogue in episode number seven of the show of, you know, the guys who are who grew up in very

traditional Mormon households. And just culture in general is traditionally very patriarchal.

Now being in the shadows, like, being the stay at home dads. And so the episode is very much

them grappling with this. Very hard for Zach who's still very, very Mormon and is like, you know,

I'm the one that should be leading the home and all this sort of stuff. And then there's Connor,

who is Whitney's husband who's very much like, you know, what we'll talk about him a second. But

very supportive and like, is accepting that role in a, in a huge way. So we hit record because

we started talking about this. He started sharing thoughts. Yeah. And yeah, I first and foremost,

I think just approaching the conversation of like, who does what in a relationship? And like,

the way that there's like pressure to be one of the other. Like, how have you dealt with that

over the years? Yeah. We definitely have had sort of like a push and pull give and take type of

a thing because what, so obviously we grew up in a very similar fashion to what Mormonism would,

would be just fundamentalist, religious ideology. That's like, the man is the leader of the home,

the woman stays home type of a thing. And so when we came out of that sort of like early 20s,

we, we were sort of exploring both of those concepts simultaneously. So I was, you know, at the very

beginning, it was just me working. And Jackie would work at the church, but you know, how that

goes, you know, what those types of paychecks look like. It's almost adjacent to volunteer work

in some ways. And then the older we got, the more she started getting more involved in her career.

And she ended up getting this really good job. It started off just being like an hourly executive

assistant type role that was supposed to be temporary. It was, it was this woman's executive,

she was the CEO, this one was a CEO of a, of a healthcare company in Central Valley in Fresno.

And her EA was on maternity leave. And so they were hiring somebody to take over for her during

that time. And then they hired Jackie. And then basically Jackie crushed that role. And this other

girl ended up not coming back to work there. So they offered her the full-time position of EA. And

that's like the first time that she got offered like a real salary, like actual, you know, pay for

what she was doing. And both of us in time were like, this is awesome. This is incredible. Now we

have like two strong income sources, you know. And then it sort of started getting better and better

from there. And then there were some other things, you know, her, when her dad ended up passing,

we moved back to Lancaster. She gave up that job and then took some time off and things. And then

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slash podcast terms and conditions apply. Did executive assistant contracting work and then

buddy of mine was doing private jet flight attending and I was like, this seems like something

that you would be really, really good at and it's flexible and high pay for daily rates. You get

good tips obviously on fights like that. So she ends up getting certified to be a private jet

flight attendant flies some really cool people and then but then she gets pregnant and it's like,

okay, well, can't keep flying at eight months pregnant. So had to take time off of that.

And then with the kid, it's like, now it's almost impossible to do a job like that. And there

are plenty of women who do that job, but it wasn't something that she wanted to do. She wanted to

be home with the baby. So there's always been, it's always called for seasons for us in our

marriage where it's been like, you go out and do some work. I go out and I work a lot.

And for a while, it was like, it makes sense, right? Like, you know, we have two people

contributing to the income. And then what the difference is, this is what we're kind of talking about

before we hit record was that I understand that this is not something that is an option for a lot

of other people that are out there. But for us in particular, the decision that we've come to

recently, and it was a fairly recent, actually, we had this conversation probably like two,

three months ago, where I said, sat her down, which is like, I just wanted to make sure, like,

are your goals for your career really yours? Or were they sort of implanted by me because

I was sort of pushing you to do that when we first got married? And because we were challenging

these sort of traditional, you know, Christian roles that we grew up with. Or are they things

that you really want to accomplish? And her answer was basically like, I feel like I already

accomplished a lot of those goals. Like, when she quit her last job to open up the everball store,

she had a six-figure salary. And that was always a big goal of hers, of hers to earn six figures.

So I was like, well, you crushed that goal and you did it. You know what else is there left for

you to achieve? And then in addition to that, how much time, even if you got another position

like that, like, you know, let's say we automate everball that we have a manager in place,

you're working 20 hours a month on that, would you want to do something else? And she was like,

no, not really because I enjoy being with the kids. And then it was a realization for me recently

where like last year I put my head down because we had SBA debt for the everball store. And I was

just like, I got to pay up, pay down some of these balances because I don't like having it.

So I just went to work last year, picked up random side gigs, did some sales contractor work,

did some other contracting work, some consulting work, some coaching work, in addition to the

podcast and all the other things that we're working on. And it was like, oh, when I put my head down,

I can make pretty good money, you know, and that's why I say this is not necessarily an option for

everybody that's listening. But for us, we ended up having that conversation a few months ago where it was

like, we've come full circle now back to like the traditional sort of roles because that ends up

working out better for us because we don't want, we don't want to daycare raising our kids. That

was sort of the discussion that we had where it was like, we want somebody, one of us home with

the kids as much as we can be. And we'll use help from time to time, of course, it's not like we don't.

But it was like, should we continue doing the things that we've been doing for the last decade,

or should we readjust? And I feel like now we're sort of in this readjustment period where we both

accepted the idea that like, she is better as the person in charge of our home. And I am better

at earning income, just flat out bottom line. Like that is a skill set that I have acquired over

the last decade that is unlike her ability to go hurt. Like if she wanted to make more money,

it was like, hopefully they'll give me a raise. Whereas it's for me, it's like, if I want to make

more money, I just push a little bit harder, sell a few more things, come up with a new offer,

do something. You know what I mean? Like I can, my ability to earn so far outweighs her ability to

earn as it sits with our current skill sets, that just doesn't make sense for me to take a bunch of

my time to be like cleaning the house or worried about dinner or getting picking up the kids from

school or dropping them off. So it was sort of like, okay, well, why don't we start transitioning

that back into those sort of traditional roles where I need to focus on all of my stuff.

And then you focus mostly on the kids in the house and everything like that. And of course,

she still runs ever bull. And of course, I still help with the kids. And I still cook dinner a

few nights a week and things like that. So it's still like a give and take to in some respect.

But we've sort of landed at this like, and frankly, not only all of that, but there is,

there was one thing I wasn't expecting when she started earning good money. And I was forced to be

at home with the kids because of that. Because at the time, I took myself off salary for my company

internally. And I hired a president to come in and run a lot of operations and things like that.

And I was paying him better than I ever paid myself. So it's like, I can't afford to pay him

and pay me. So, but she's making good enough money right now where we can take a little bit of

a respite there. And but I'm still working on this business. But then it's like, during that time,

I was this unexpected feeling arose in me and I started feeling like less useful as a man.

And I don't know if that's insecurity or I don't know if that's just traditional generals or

I don't know if that's just my biological desire to be a protector and a provider. But it was

something that I was not expecting during that time where I just I felt I felt less, I don't know,

less masculine, I suppose. And that was something that I that I had to grapple with internally to be

like, I don't want to limit her capacity to to fulfill her dreams if these are her dreams.

But I also know that I am never going to be okay just being a stay-at-home dad. Like that is not a

role that I am going to feel good about myself doing. So it was it was it was good for a season

because it allowed her to see that she did not need the income to make her feel like a better

contributor in their relationship. And it was good for me to see first of all how much work goes

into being a like a stay-at-home mom or stay-at-home dad. You know what I mean? Like there's a

a period of time where it was like this is crazy amount of work. This is still a crazy amount of work.

And the stakes are arguably higher because we're talking about the future of our children here.

You know what I mean? So when we when we both had that level of clarity that after she was

sort of attacking this and I was attacking this and it was like we're doing this almost for the

sake of of combating traditional generals but at the detriment of our own financial success and

and and happiness ultimately because it's like she's happier being the mom the wife and and and

taking care of our household. And I'm happier going out and you know hunting for prey. You know

I mean what you have whatever that looks like. So we we sort of have now come kind of complete

full circle direction. And a lot of that's on me because I did not I did not express to her verbally

that it did not matter to me that like her financial contribution while I appreciated it

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It was not something that I looked at as like this is your value in our relationship and if you

stop earning money you will no longer be valuable and or or or even not not even necessarily

no longer be valuable but you'll be second place to me if I am the chief earner.

And I think that's what a lot of people get wrong is that it's like whoever makes the most

money is the one who makes the decisions all the time and it's like well we're still a team and

we still talk about our decisions. I think ultimately she still trusts me to be like the final

authority of the final say on most things just because that's how we've always worked and she

just trusts me to do those things. She knows that if I take a big risk that I will also work

my ass off to make sure it pays off in some sort of a way and if it doesn't then I'll also work

my ass off to go do other things to make up for the risk that I took where ended up being a big L.

So she trusts me in that and then I trust her discretion with the kids and at home and stuff.

So now I feel like we're we're back on the same page we're back into sort of these traditional

rules and again she still runs ever bull and still as a business owner herself and I still

help out the kids but it's no it's not as fluid as it used to be now it's more like I have to do

this and by the way since we've done that everything has been better you know what I mean like the

she's happier being in the role that she is I'm happier being in the role that I am and we're

making more money than we did when we were when it was two incomes coming you know I'm saying so

it's tough to say that that's why I say you just have to figure it out for your relationship and

you have to be super honest and open and be willing to say the hard things out loud and have

those difficult conversations so you can figure out something that works for you because it's not

going to be the same for everybody and and I can imagine in a scenario like this and again I don't

nothing about the context of serialized normal wives and all the stuff that's going on but it

would it would be tough it would be tough as as a man especially because I I would assume that

these guys are probably pretty high income earners themselves they're probably not you know like

weightier management somewhere yeah but I would assume that they probably put a lot of work in

their careers what is my point is like they put a lot of work and building skills and doing it

the traditional way and then all of a sudden this black swan of an event happens where where mom

talk blows the fuck up and now their wife is like famous and their earning power is eclipsing

any ability that that man has to be able to go out earn them that has to take a dig at your

your masculinity or at least your internal feeling of confidence and so it would be hard to grapple

with that so have a little bit of empathy there but also if I was in that position I don't know

exactly what I would do because if she theoretically had the ability to out earn me at the level that

some of these women are out earning their husbands then I'd be like well I can't argue with that

you know what I mean I feel like I would probably still want to be doing something in the you know

financially to contribute at that point but you know when you can't compete with some of these

things that these girls are doing it that it'd be tough it'd be tough that's all I'm saying and I

think it's just that's why I say like it just has to be worked out on an individual basis but I do

think that for if we're speaking in very broad terms that traditional roles probably make more

sense for more people in at at large and again in general just because that's the way that it's always

worked and the way doing something because that's the way it's always been done is never a good reason

to do it which is why we went through this period of like should we do it like that should we try

this other way and we try a lot of other ways and then we came back to this sort of traditional

way at the end of it but you also you also can't necessarily combat or fight the psychological

evolution of human beings which you know has historically been women are taking care of the home

and men are out there protecting and providing and that's been true for tens of thousands of years

and that's what we've evolved to become as human so it's also really difficult to just combat that

in a single generation of you know human evolution it's it's almost impossible which is why I say like

for a broad statement at in general it probably works better for most people where the wife will

probably be happier taking care of the kids being at home and the husband will probably be happier

being the protector and provider and going out and earning the income however again very nuanced

conversation and there's a ton of different people where that would be the opposite so you have to

be willing to have the open honest communication and be willing to say some of the quiet parts out loud

in order to be able to find what's going to work best for you yeah well and I think that's why the

sprint thing is good like we're going to do a sprint of this period doing this and then

readjusting based on like like because like again like the example you just gave which I'm actually

going to play this clip so there can be audio I just realized but it's one of the guys said

something like basically like there's this gravitational pull around her career right now where it's

like it's one of the things where it goes like yeah I get Utah culture I get like the religious

culture side of it and then just social culture but also it's like this first fella it's like

you know are you going to go for three months you've had to step out of your like quote-unquote

traditional role because you got offered dance with the stars and you're making probably seven

figures I would guess at this point while he's making maybe six you know and then the second guy

was like a technical analyst probably making six figures yeah you know but she's on dance with

stars just landed a movie deal just to the it's like right it's like are you going to say yeah the

value I think that's the difference is right is like for me I always go the person who's probably

the best earner is gonna be in that role yeah depending on who that is and probably should be in that

yeah and and you know I think I think when you go into well I'm I have a like the guys that go like

I have a terrible salary I don't I'm not a great worker I'm not all these things but because I am a

guy that's my role you know it's like a lot of really should struggle with that yeah because they

feel like they should be I have to be the leader yeah the alpha of the past yeah exactly exactly

and and but a lot of those settings to like even a lot of the women that I know who are really

high earners who I like interviewed on the show and talk to about some of these things a lot of them

are still very much wanting a very masculine alpha type energy in their life you know what I mean

even if even if they are the chief earner as the woman they want a nut they want that they have

to stay in Travis we got to free these people from this mindset we have to free yeah yeah yeah

yeah because I think it's a case it doesn't mean that you can't be a man it just means that if you

personally feel that that's going to be a problem for you that it has to be addressed and

talked about and you have to decide if you're okay with stepping back and taking that

less than it you know earning role or if that's enough of a detriment to you and what you feel like

your purpose in life is where where you might just have to say okay well I'm super happy for you

and I don't want to limit your capacity but also I'm going to keep doing these things so we have

to figure out what that means does that mean we split up or does that mean we have the we bring

in nanny to be with the kids more somebody that we trust or something like that like the

nice thing about about that conversation is at least there's a lot of potential possibilities

that are afforded to you when you're making that type of income that would not be afforded to

somebody else when we're talking about like the difference between making like oh well I was

making 30 a year now I'm making 70 a year it's like okay well you don't still you still have

the ability to like have a live in opair you know what I mean but when you're making a couple

a million a year it's like okay well now we have the ability to make sure that our kids maybe

they get they can they can travel with us we're gonna homeschool them we're gonna bring their

tutor with us and they're gonna travel with us while we do these events and while we do these

things and while you're out you're speaking at this thing or while you're doing dancing with the

stars or whatever we're gonna make sure that we can still bring the kids around and they're not

having to go through this traditional like school setting maybe we're gonna homeschool them maybe

we have this you know online thing that we're gonna do like you you just you have to be willing to

talk about it even when it's super uncomfortable because there's no other path to finding a resolution

that's gonna work for everybody no bottle it up this actually ended up turning into a two-part

episode because we just kept talking and talking and we wouldn't shut up about it so I think it's

a really interesting conversation and really culturally relevant at this point so we wanted to

make sure that we pulled out this thread long enough but so this is gonna be part one so if

listen to this episode just know that we will continue this on a later episode Jackson hewitt has

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