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Katherine Himes is the director of the McClure Center for Public Policy Research out of the University of Idaho and came on to talk about her collaboration training event around preserving our environment coming up in April. She is not only a wealth of knowledge but also an incredible facilitator of complex solutions and is helping to engage communities around these skills. Enjoy!
The Ranch Podcast is supported by Truth In Media Foundation, a non-profit media organization committed to unbiased, Idaho focused media.
The Ranch Podcast is the premier source for long format interviews and information in the Treasure Valley and great state of Idaho. The Boise area is home to many counties and ways of life. It’s also home to many law enforcement agencies, like Ada County and Canyon county Sheriff offices, Idaho State Police, Eagle Police Department, Meridian Police Department, and many more. The school systems in the area are also quite diverse. Boise school district and West Ada School District, though right next to each other, are quite different. Ada County is also home to our state capital and many of our elected officials.
The Ranch Podcast is shot just north of Eagle, Idaho.
I
Catherine has you back. I am thanks for having me Matt god bless it. Thank you for being here
You are the director of the McClure Center for public policy research. That's correct at University of Idaho
That one first try
There's a mouthful. Yeah, it is um you and I obviously had an episode a couple months ago. We've been in constant contact sense. I
I
Honestly didn't know what public policy places did especially public policy research stuff did until I met you and like
Oh my gosh, this is great
So you essentially aggregate all kinds of information about very complex topics that would be almost impossible for an individual person to go out and grab
Even if you could get the data compiling it all into like some kind of bite-sized chunk would be almost impossible
But that's what you guys do and then you offer it to the general public
So like I as an Idaho resident. I'm kind of like your client. You come forward and you're like hey, Matt
Here's the information that you might want to know about this thing. Whatever that thing is. That's right. You are our client
God bless it. What are we talking about today? I think we're going to talk about collaboration
Which is another thing that we do
Yes, talk to me. Okay, so
This is one of the five things we do. We facilitate
collaborations
We serve as that neutral facilitator to help bring people together or if they're already together
Then we help them find some common ground
and in part the reason we do this is because Senator McClure
Part of our namesake
He did this when he was in
Public service when he was in Idaho State Senate when he was in the US House and when he was in the US Senate
So he would see a lot of different groups a lot of different organizations a particular challenge
And people might not know how to come together or they might finger point
So he would meet with each organization separately and then work on bringing them together in the room and then helping them find common ground
the concept of collaboration
And I know I kind of mentioned this to you briefly when we were chatting about you coming on the concept of collaboration
is
So funny now because it used to be like oh this person's very collaborative. You're like oh, that's great
It's like oh, yeah, they they work with this group and they work with this group and they bring everyone together and you know
Emphasize people's strengths and you know fill in gaps where different groups have them like oh, it's so great now
If you're collaborative they're like bro
You're getting taken for a ride like it's a liability in politics
Nobody wants to collaborate and in fact anyone
That is you know, let's say conservative or Republican in the Idaho in the Idaho
Legislature do you see posts all the time? They're like they vote or collaborate with Democrats
And it's like I don't know what to tell you like I don't have to tell them anything
But it's so wild that that's that's kind of how
Collaboration is now viewed in certain circles in certain circles sure
It's a really important part of our democracy this idea working together and finding common ground and our communities
Right, and this is the emphasis. Yeah, you might be able to emphasize how dirty somebody is when they collaborate in the Idaho
Political system, but when we talk about public lands when we talk about you know individual school sites when we talk about
Rain fire management and rangeland collaboration is it the key like I had Charlie my favorite podcast
I will tell you right now. I published 902 this morning 901 902
Um of the 902 podcast my favorite one was Charlie line
he uh
I don't even know how to describe it
He took me on a journey through his story of of creating and really rolling out
Rangeland fire so associations or agencies that can never remember but
Essentially you have ranchers in the state of Idaho that need their rangeland winter rangel whatever it might be to not burn and
We obviously have limited resources both in the state level the federal level the local level and so you have these ranchers going out and
Fighting these fires with their own bulldozers with their own water with whatever they could just stop
Creating fire breaks the whole thing whatever they could do to stop
The fire and they were running into these mass conflicts with these other fire agencies
And they were also running into conflicts with the legal system because like you guys can't be out in like the liabilities too great to have
You know ranchers out here fighting these fires and the collaboration
That was at the heart of how they figured out a solution
It brought me to tears to hear that and
In the political world you can use it to hit somebody over the head with
But in the real world we need to collaborate if we're going to get anywhere
Matt that's a great example and I think you'll be excited that Idaho has been collaborating for a really long time
This example you mentioned of the RFPAs
The conversation that you had with Charlie
That's one thing that's existed in Idaho for some time
There are some other collaborations that have a formal name, you know, there's they are a place name
So for example, there's something called the Owaihi initiative and you may have had some people on
Over the years who have talked about this, but that was a particular collaboration
Very formal in the Owaihi's that part of Idaho
You also have forest collaborations that are going on across the state
Then there was a collaboration that the McClure Center facilitated a few years ago
That was at the request of the governor the governor salmon work group
And so sometimes it's local and it's
What you were talking about with Charlie and it doesn't have a formal name and some have a formal name and a specific duration
But Idaho's been doing this for decades
Talk to me about some of these right the Owaihi. I have heard some about it the forest collaborations. What are those?
I mean it's like all of these are
They're so fundamental to the very things that make the state go right when you talk about timber and you know land management when you talk about
Preservation of resources both both for you know like commercial grazing and then recreation and then hunting and the whole thing like
That's kind of at the heart of the Owaihi collaboration like talked to me about these and how these collaborations were really brought together because
It's like
It seems common sense when you're like hey, we all like this. We should all work together
But when as people do when they get in the room together
They can't all agree on what working together looks like or they can't they all agree on compromise as long as the other person compromising
Yeah, that's right. So generally these are around something natural resources
There certainly are examples of collaboration in other places for example education
You know, maybe more focus on a transportation project
But I think a lot of them that make the headlines are around natural resources. So you mentioned Owaihi initiative. Let's go back to that
Way back there was a proposal from Washington DC on how that part of the state should be managed their ideas including
A national monument and there are so many users of that land. I think that county in particular is maybe the number one county in the state in terms of percentage federal
I think it's pushing 90%
So there's a lot of use. There's recreation. There's grazing
And other things now there's mining permits and so forth
But they said you know the people who use this land
We may have a more durable solution a local solution compared to what's coming from Washington DC
So somebody brought together many organization like backcountry horsemen
The wilderness society
Idaho conservation league a lot of different ranchers and it was
Focused on what can we do together how do we see this land being managed and are there ways that we might be able to take some land
Off of federal designation and then maybe take some private land and have that be federal designation very complicated
But what was really important is they created this process. They had a neutral facilitator
Like you said it was hard to be in the room together at first because often they weren't in the room with each other and other settings
Right, these are people that may not have seen eye-to-eye. They may have had more finger pointing than finding that commonality
But what they came up with was a proposal then they brought that to US Senator Crapo
And they said here's what we think could happen
And so it's a really different narrative when you have a local group
Working with a federal agency or a member of our federal delegation and they've already formed that solution and that approach
The other the other side of it you often hear okay federal agency has this proposal
We're looking for community input and then the input is all over the place
Here you have a local solution that was baked that was durable that took quite a while to generate
But it's going to be lasting and so that actually was codified into law into federal legislation
This formal process how the land would be managed
Wilderness designation not wilderness designation grazing all different kinds of things
And that endures to this day. There's a board of directors. It's a pretty formal group
But that's just one example
If I'm asked if you take these different groups right what were the
prevailing conflicting principles between the groups right or if we just look at say like the ranchers
Like you run in a cattle operation out in the Y he's very open the whole thing and then you have conservationists
Right or or you know backcountry
Horsemen like whatever it might be what were those conflicts where it was like I don't like you
You don't like me. We're not gonna work together
And then of course the the bad part of that is the federal government comes in and just does it to you
Whatever they and they're not asking anybody right or they're not taking into consideration all the people that we're using in the right way
But what were what were some of those conflicts that people had to sit down be like okay
We agree on 90% of stuff
But this in the last 10% like these are the sticking points
So each collaboration or each group that's trying to come together or each group that's told they're going to work together whatever form it begins with
um
There are
particulars unique to that landscape those challenges those people etc
But I think one way we can answer your question is to talk about something that is uh it makes me smile because it's it's pretty much across the board with a collaboration
And that's this idea of positions and interests
So a position let's let's say you and I are gonna go out to lunch
And your position is
Catherine I want to go get Chinese food
Okay
And I'm like Matt I don't want to do that
I'm gonna go get tacos
You're like Catherine I don't want tacos. I want Chinese food
Then we start to get frustrated with each other because I really want tacos
It's taco Tuesday and you really want Chinese food
I got a hankering for the Mongolian right or whatever it might be maybe you don't want Chinese food
Maybe you want tacos. Sure. Maybe you want barbecue
But you are holding on to that position
And then and so again, this is a position. This is a position. Right. Okay, but then you're like Catherine
I'll let you I'll let you in on why I want to go have Chinese food
Because they have a patio
I'll be like fair
Okay, my taco place it doesn't have a patio and it's a nice day
And then you're like wait a second
Maybe there's a place with a patio and we both would enjoy the food
So are we going to go somewhere totally different? Are we going to go out for the funky taco?
They got a patio, but maybe it's something totally different. Maybe we land on pasta
Hmm
So we're moving from our positions which are whatever it might be this parcel
I want this parcel managed in this way. I want this river this way and not focused on a why
But just focused on this is my position and not parsing out like all the little details of like okay
This is my position because of these considerations
But then over time might be like hmm
Actually the reason is not because of you're just being difficult and stubborn
Somebody told you to have that position
There's actually this common interest that you have
You both love the landscape
You both I mean like in our instance sure we both are into the patio
We will go out for any food, but we want the patio or we want to have a beer or a fun soda or what a great coffee
Whatever the case might be
But over time when you can move from positions to figuring out those common interests
That's when things really turn a corner in collaboration and it takes time
One marker of success with collaborations is you'll see people say oh, hey
Wasn't your grandson's birthday like last week or hey? I saw your wife at the movie theater
Oh, hey, you know what like I made some jam and I brought some jam for you because you know like I know last time
That's your jam
But you know you start to see people as people yeah, you understand that maybe you really know a lot about this landscape or forest
Whatever that collaboration might be
So you can start to see things from that place of interest
I had this experience yesterday and I try to be very collaborative and communicative with my wife because again
I hate I hate positions, right? I don't actually hate positions. I hate getting stuck in positions because I'm always beaten up like
What's our like what's your concern right like I understand this is what you want and that's fine
Could you just explain to me so we make sure like maybe we can both again like you're saying so my kids are out playing in the mud
Yeah, right they got these hoses. It's the first beautiful day
And they've been dying to be outside playing in mud right digging these gigantic holes
They would dug these holes that were like three four feet deep and they were filling them up the hose water jumping in like
Yellen cannonball, which was crazy because the holes got big right
Superbuddy she comes out and she's like we got to turn off the water
Now mind you I wasn't asking her to like hang out with the kids. I was out with the kids. I'm like
Okay, how come and she's like this is really and she turns off the water
I'm like okay listen like I'm not against turning off the water
They are enjoying it. I'm just wondering what is it you're concerned about like what are you interested in in
Dressing here and her concern was one she's like I feel like we're wasting water fair concern
They're literally spraying the hose in the mud. I'm like that's true
But we're on a well and the hole is right next to the well
So this water's going down and literally going right back to the water source that it's coming from
I understand we lose some with evaporation and other things but like we're not losing that much. She's like yeah
But you know our pump our pump only goes 10 gallons a minute
And like if you're doing stuff out here on the hose and then we're trying to do stuff in the house
It won't work. I'm like I understand that and by the way if you're trying to run laundry right now
I'll totally have them turn it off
But if we're not using anything inside in this moment then we're not affecting that that concern right? She's like okay
So we kind of go back and forth. She's like I guess I don't care. I'm like awesome right but again
Instead of taking the we should turn the water off and me saying the kids are playing in the water
You beat up whatever you're concerned about and all of a sudden nobody really has concerns
I love that but it takes time
Yeah, and that's just a dude, you know ironing out the hose with this wife
It's not something that's like if she turned off the hose it wouldn't have been the end of the world
But when you're talking about people's livelihoods
That's a completely different conversation
But in this example, how long have you known your wife?
I know in our minute. It's been a while
22 years
22 years and then in a span of maybe 10 or 15 minutes you were able to move from positions to interests
Imagine if you were in a room with 20 people
Maybe five of them you know and you see eye to eye maybe you know all of them, but you see eye to eye with five
How long might it take you to move from positions to interests?
I mean it might never happen great
So how do you guys? I mean, obviously this seems like an incredible framework to start breaking down
You know with be it with somebody at like a PTA organization with a local school site or the Hawaii's like
Do you guys there's a McClure Center come in and try to initiate these meetings where you kind of introduce the framework
Around which you want to have the conversations or you want to help people get to which is like everybody's screaming
They're like hey look
We're all gonna get a chance to scream
How about we start with everybody writing down positions and that like you introduce that
Yeah, I think that it
Sometimes you can kind of write down positions. Sometimes you you really want them to focus immediately on interests
But it depends on how the table was set so to speak
So we we were not part of facilitating the Hawaii initiative that predates the McClure Center
But my understanding is in that instance it was kind of a very wide a very big tent
People came they wanted to do something, but they didn't know what they were gonna do together
And that was the challenge for that facilitator
um
We were involved in governor salmon work group and in that instance
20 people were selected by the governor to come together to make recommendations on
Idaho salmon and steelhead are an adromous fish
So that governor little could use their policy recommendations as he set policy for agencies as he was working at the regional
And so those 20 people
Many different positions, but a lot of shared interests were picked and they were told you have 18 months
You're gonna work together
And so we came in at that point to help them make these shared policy recommendations. So
Yeah, I
I love that that very much reminds me of the hat program the hunting and advanced technology that was put forth by
The department of fishing game they selected I believe 20 people to be on this committee both hunters and non hunters
They had people apply and then they're like okay guys
You have to make recommendations here's a bunch of data start parsing it out figured out
You're gonna make recommendations to us and by the way for us to take one of your recommendations and needs to be unanimous across the 20 people
But make the recommendations beat it all up tease it out and if you can't you know be unanimous in one position
Then we'll consider that whatever, but
It's that kind of thing. So what were the recommendations that got brought forward from the salmon and steelhead?
So there were I think I think 29
And that was a great amount
They spanned a lot of different areas with that particular topic, you know
There are challenges with ocean conditions with habitat with hydropower
They talk about the four h's
O and P and P is predation, you know
What's happening on the Columbia River with wait? What are the four h's
Hydro okay, habitat got it. Oh, boy, ocean
Oh, you're gonna challenge me because this was some time ago. I feel like I'm blanking on two of these hydro and habitat
Hatcheries, hatcheries, uh-oh, and then
Mike Edmondson is going to ring my neck that I'm forgetting right now. What was the fourth age? Yeah, but oceans and predation
So we were looking at they were looking at all these different categories and could they come up with some shared recommendations in each area
So that would this would set state policy and what the governor would bring to regional conversations with other governors and so forth
Um, so you know it took some time for this group to begin to
Start writing, you know first it was how do they get to know each other?
Seeing things in the field that was a really important part of this process was going to different places
Across the state seeing things on the ground
We saw a lot of habitat restoration
We took public comment at every every monthly meeting from people in that community
And that was another important part of the process was understanding their concerns about salmon and steelhead and livelihoods and
Economics and so forth
We had a lot of technical experts supporting this group
Primarily from fishing game, but some from office of species conservation
We heard from a lot of
technical people
There know a fisheries um like that's
National oceanic and atmospheric administration, but um just answering this group's questions about the science and about process
Um, and so then over the span of a year and a half they got to
Writing these I think it was 29 recommendations and we're all 29
Like aggressively adopted by the governor's administration and and reflected in his policies
So I don't know if I use the word aggressively, but the governor maybe enthusiastically adopted uh what the what the work group recommended
Passionately, but I don't know
Say but he but he issued a formal letter got it it conveying that he was accepting all of them and
And that some were
Delegated to a specific state agency or several state agencies and somewhere more policy positions
He could have at that regional level
But our charge was really helping this group get to that point of writing things down and seeing what they had in common
Rather than uh, there were some things that they decided to set aside and and and not pursue as a group because it wasn't unanimous
Okay, there's a huge
I
Talked to a lot of people and I really tried to dig down just my my uh
Compass by the way is really just
Me trying to understand if I can get to the point where I understand something you know on a show
They're like okay, you know what whether or not that's true or not
I understand this person's position and other people get to benefit from understanding that person's position
And then I try to have on other people if I have additional questions things like that
But essentially what I try to get to is grabbing as many
valid perspectives and competing ideas as possible around a certain issue and then be like okay
Here it is like this is first off. It's always way more complex than I thought
I had this guy Casey Stevenson in the other day from Paul I believe Idaho sugarbeat farmer guy and
Just understanding the pressures on the sugarbeat industry
Just that one growing industry. I'm like this is impossible
Like why would anybody engage this is crazy and again super complex, but
there are
There are problems in this state and across the country with our concerns around election systems
concerns around health and welfare
concerns around this concerns around that and
So many of the people that are loudest and most vocal over those things
I find are not digging down into the problem. They're taking a position
And I had a conversation just the other day with somebody that he's a buddy of mine
And he's very upset and worked up over like the Epstein files
He's upset about things that are happening on the national level and
He he and I also chatted briefly about the the child care issues that we're kind of seeing with fraud and you know
Minnesota and other places, right? You don't have to make comment on this
But the point is I was very fortunate to be in DC and I got to interview Alex Adams who's now the secretary of family services and
It's speed assistant secretary excuse me and speaking with him. I was like, okay, how did this happen?
And how could it be fixed in Alex Adams is a gangster like he lays out
perfectly
The the policies that were in place that set the table for allowing people there are plenty people who are doing good work
And then there are plenty of people who are engaging in some kind of fraudulent activity fine
Whatever and he was like this is there was one that was enrolment versus attendance
There was there's a so if you could get people to enroll
Then you you got paid for that instead of how many people actually showed up that's a conversation. There's one in
Preemptive payments so they were getting paid before the things even happened right there were aspects of
A verification right verification that was not able to be double checked or like all these different things and he laid out all these
all these
checks and balances that he was
Re-initiating and putting into place to try to prevent fraud and waste right
I spoke to my buddy about this. I'm like, you know
There are some people in the government that deeply care for America like you and I do and if you and I
Took these jobs which were not qualified to take because I don't understand the system like he does
But if we took these jobs, don't you think we would do everything we could to stop this stuff and what happened in the conversation was a realization that no matter what
Some people just fundamentally will not engage in the depth of thought required to have a collaboration
To actually understand the complexities
Because even if you start with Catherine and Matt we or Patriots we love Idaho we love America
We get put into this position where we're directors of a situation that is all messy and funky
And it could be a conservation thing. It could be whatever
We would try our absolute best, but there's some people that it's like it doesn't matter
Like how do you how do you work with people that come to the table but are convinced ahead of time that there is no real solution
You see some elections. I was speaking to a county clerk and he was like listen
There are people that we deal with even if they administered elections themselves
They wouldn't trust the election results
That's just the way this is and you find those people in every in every area at this point
So, but I think that uh, I'm sorry. I know that's a lot. No, I think it's there's
There's a really important piece in here, which is that not all collaborations are successful
Sometimes people walk away from participating in the collaboration
If if they have the option, you know, maybe
Because it depends how they're configured. Sometimes it's sort of
You have a seat at the table, but if you want to give that seat up you give that seat up
Sometimes the collaboration is very formal and it's like somebody has to hold that seat no one can quit
And so it's like if that one person leaves the whole thing crumbles. Sure
So it's not every collaboration successful
But there I I want to talk to you about something that we have coming up
Because one of our goals at the McClure Center is to help build the capacity for collaboration in Idaho
I love we need that really badly
Particularly in natural resources and so we've been inspired
We've had our eye on a great program that has been active in Utah for some time
There's also a program in Wyoming that was inspiring to us and
One of the parts of this program is an annual event and the event is open to anyone
So what we decided is let's do that kind of annual event here in Idaho
And let's pick a particular natural resources topic for that year
So our first year begins April 22nd. I'm really excited about this event
It's in partnership with the Andrus Center and it's in partnership with the University of Idaho range land center
But we're like we know what we want to talk about what we want to showcase is wildland fire
And collaborations that are happening in wildland fire
So some of what we'll talk about are big success stories
Things that have been going on for decades or years or it was an easy win out of the gate
But we're also going to be talking about places where collaborations are stuck
Or maybe where they fell flat and they had to sunset
Because it's really important to share what works well. What doesn't work well
And we have
Fantastic lineup from local organizations to federal government
But then we also have some
Like collaboration teasers or nuggets or goodies. How whatever you want to call them throughout the day
So one thing I won't I won't spoil it
But if you're curious about why collaborations get stuck or why they work we're going to be talking about the triangle of satisfaction
I wanted
I'm not going to tell you about the triangle of satisfaction
But we're going to have people who facilitate for a living
You know, this is the thing that they do and they're going to talk about positions and interests
They're going to talk about the trial triangle of satisfaction
They're going to talk about some other things. So yes, we'll have people talking about their work and fire at the local level or local federal partnership or
What's happening in a county? What's happening at a large landscape in Oregon
But we're we're going to have the new head of the US wild land fire service, which is a brand new federal agency
We're going to have the governor the tenant governor open the day
So there'll be a lot of stories about different types of collaboration in Idaho
And people who are coming to this it's like okay, Catherine and I can imagine who's coming I bet you have
State agency folks federal agency folks and we do
But this is also of interest to industry because wild land fire they participate in a lot of conversations and collaborations around this
We also have non-profit groups. We have some
neighborhood associations, you know the wild land urban interface is now
Even drier than it used to be and neighborhood associations are wondering what can they do around collaboration
We'll have students attending
But the idea is that I think you need to have every HOA president in the entire treasurality mandatory attendance
Okay, all right, let's do that
So so that's so the next year the topic might be totally different
It might be something like invasive species or something around water, but this year
It's wild land fire and those stories of collaboration
I
Man, we need more of this
We need and you guys are obviously working towards that, but it's
I feel like it to be to be really candid with you
I feel like there's an odd collaboration that I have with a lot of my a lot of my listeners and viewers even if I never meet them right
They're working with me kind of and engaging in in content that I'm making and coming with me on a journey of exploration to hopefully all be all arrive in a similar
Similar location not with a position
But or or even interest but having the same information that we're working at the table with and then people can decide whatever they want
Just like I decide whatever I want, you know in private and I think that's really important
But it is that willingness to start listening and start collaborating in that way offering time
Offering a position or excuse me offering up you a space in your head for other people to start, you know
We start tinkering around. It's like okay. Let's let's take in a lot of information
Let's all get on the same page and then people can figure out whatever they think from there, but it's
That has been a really beneficial to me. It has helped me get informed so
So much way more than anything else and and if we just had more of the collaboration kind of mindset
Which is you know again starts with listening
Starts with hearing people. I mean, I don't have to tell you that and maybe I'm totally wrong
You're like no collaboration starts with you talking and everyone else listening. It's like unlikely
But man, I think that's great. Where is this?
this will be at the
I struggle to say the name correctly and so I can just see the andra center
Shooting looks to me right now, but I think it's the the stuckly the stickle I can never say it correctly the sky center
At the sky center this so that's the stuckly stickle
It's named for a person and I'm also very apologetic to it's okay to that couple right now
But it's the sky center. It's above the Boise State University football stadium
So you can see the blue turf you can see the foothills you can see downtown
But will be there on April 22nd
For attorneys who are curious about this we do have continuing legal education credit
But it will be from 9 a.m. Until 5 p.m. And I'll tell you one thing. I mean, I'm going to make you
Come so you can hear about the trying satisfaction
But one thing that's really important in collaboration is relationship
So having meals together
Having coffee or a soda or beer together those things are really important
That's when the magic starts to happen going to the field to see projects on the ground
So we will have time for that conversation
Sharing lunch together
Networking
Because it's it's not just taking the information in it's also having those conversations and kind of chewing on it and saying
Yeah, what if what if we tried this might fail but let's let's try it and let's see where it goes
You don't have to convince me to come okay. I love I love coming okay good good. I had a where I lived there was a
What like wildland fire that came up like I was watching the flames in the smoke from my front yard
Had my sprinklers on I like ran up onto my roof and cleared the gutters like my wife and kids were crying
They took off I was trying to be cool. I'm like honey. Just take the kids to get nachos
They'll never even know this was happening the whole time. I'm like are we gonna die?
But I'm like trying to keep it together
You know, it was it was a real thing and the the the eagle fire district crushed it right like they did a tremendous job, but
You know, these are real problems especially in the treasure valley
You know as things get drier and you can't even say that now like you can't even articulate precipitation values without people getting mad at you
It's kind of like I don't know what to tell you man. I was I was talking to a
One guy Cameron bro exactly who was but he was like listen reality is
Near where near where he lived he's like we used to have snow at the base of you know some
You know, I'll range near near his place. He's like we used to have snow there like 10 months a year
And it was only like in the hottest of the summertime to the snowmill is like now
We only have snow like two months a year. It used to be year round and now it's like
Sometimes we don't even get snow and he was like that's just the way this goes
And he even acknowledges this like multi-generation Idaho and he's like you can't even really talk about it
Because people just start saying you're a crazy person or you're lying or you're whatever and
Like we're gonna have to square with that from a pragmatic position of how do we address
Preserving life and property in this area that is both being invaded by more and more rooftops
And getting drier and drier and drier and dwindling resources
Well, I'm an optimist and I'll I'll tell you that the great thing is that
People are really smart Idahoans are really smart. You know people who are on governor Sam and work group
They came up with these solutions together
Yeah, but Catherine then people like me that aren't that smart from out of state we move here
And we screw up that we pee in the pool
Well, then you come to the collaboration summit and you meet more people and you listen and you start to get ideas and yeah
I'm in okay. I'm in. It's gonna be great
Do you have like Idaho power going as well because I have to imagine there are working because they're constantly working to
To harden the grid. Yeah, they're I think they're they're gonna send some people to be in the audience, but there's also somebody who is
An employee of Idaho power, but she's also part of a collaboration and she's going to be on the stage talking about that collaboration
I love that. I love that April 22nd
Collaboration triangle satisfaction. You're not gonna tell me what it is quite unfortunately. Yeah, be there to enjoy it
You're gonna be there. Is this like how much does this cost for the public? Oh
Matt
This is a question. I should know the answer to it. We can put the details in that we can put the details, but it is
It might be $90 75 got you get a lunch you get some cookies
There's coffee
For those who are attorneys you get your your legal education
Do I get a lanyard to get a lanyard you may get a lanyard you may get a magnetic name tag either one
But we'll also have an expo and there are a lot of organizations that do work somehow in fire
Firewise, you know different plants things you can do for your yard
There are other organizations that are focused on collaboration and they're gonna have a table
So there's there are lots of ways to get more information when you're attending this event
There's a gal that I've wanted to connect with and we've we've pinged back and forth on LinkedIn
But she is working she works for a company that does
Like fire safe building materials and so it's they're essentially it's essentially like it looks like backer board
Essentially, but it's like magnesium cement or something that can't be burned
And they're like you just slap the panels together with some two by fours
And it's like you have this completely fireproof structure
Yeah, are there do you know what I'm talking? Yeah, and there's also a paint that's like a
So I'm not I mean, I don't know yet who who all will come to the expo
But there also will be others who are working
Maybe not so much on on physical materials for things, but other things
Right, I mean there's some groups that I think are focused on human health and fire and smoke and they're collaborating around that
That's a huge problem
Back in my former life in my former state. We had a name. You can't know. You should not be named
The the three years leading up to our our move
2019 2020 and 2021 we had the worst fires in the summer
Where literally you'd look outside and it looked like a red sun rising from what was the second Lord of the Rings movie
When they were like trapped in Helm's deep. I can't remember what it was, but it
Was terrible. You couldn't go outside. We we were living in houses that were built you know along like in the 1950s or or older
Which is not old for the east coast, but it's old for you know, you know, the coastal states
They were a totally not
Tightened down so they're leaking like sips. We can't open our windows because we can't you know
There's all kinds of smoke outside so we're running our air conditioners which for again in Idaho
That's not a big deal
They're good luck man like you're talking a thousand dollar electrical bill easy
And you're living in you know under two thousand square feet
We had all of these problems and it's like why and how is this happening and
Man, I would hate to see something like that before I'd home. It'd be terrible
So collaboration April 22nd collaboration. Let's collaborate. Okay. It's gonna be great
Um anything else you won't hit today. I just wanted to say a shout out to the andersonner and the rangeland center
Because it's their first go at the collaboration summit and they
Said let's do it. Let's do this together. Let's pull our networks. Let's pull our resources. Let's
Partner up so we can have a really strong event. So I just I want to thank them and
Um, I also think that it's it's a really important message that Idaho does lead on
Collaborations all across the state and it's been this way for quite some time
I think it's a special place. That's awesome
um
Karen launch ball. Yeah, is she on the rangeland
What what was it the rangeland rangeland center so she used to be the director of the rangeland center and she was for some time
And she's she's a professor of rangeland science rangeland ecology. Yeah at the U of I
So she's still involved, but there is a different director and associate director
And they have a whole board of advisors and some of them will be participating in this as well
And is that is the rangeland center out of U of I as well?
It's out of U of I's other people in Moscow. They're people in Boise. They also are very active at rink or rock creek ranch
If you don't know about that. I don't watch rink or rock creek ranch
Well, this is a pretty amazing partnership nature conservancy is involved University of Idaho would river land trust
But it's located kind of at that gateway the southern gateway to the wood river valley
So Bellevue you've driven on highway 20
And then you're going to turn on 75
These are just numbers. These are numbers. We're going to have to talk about this
This is an amazing ranch and so there's opportunities for students to see
Ranch management
They had a fire several years ago. So now they're really focused on postfire recovery studies
But Karen launchbot does go there and I hear she plays her mandolin and sings
Really really I had her on the show. She didn't mention the mandolin. Oh, yeah
And but they do have a lot of educational opportunities for the public
But that's it's a really I got to get her back on um, and so she's not she's no longer the director
She gonna be down here for this. I'm not sure. Okay, maybe I'll send her text
I because I loved having the conversation with her
You know the problem is very frequently and you experience this personally
I
Genuinely don't know things and I invite people on that are like hey you should ask this person come on great
So but it's this the first show is always this like wait what do you do?
How does that and then the second show obviously is much more focused. I'm like, okay
I get it now like this is the conversation that would be cool to have and you go from there
So Karen the like obviously he's like this rangeland expert and I have these dumb questions and then afterwards
I'm like, oh next time I'm asking you about this thing. So I've been waiting to see her. Yeah
Well, you should we should I vote rangeland some more every year
We partner with the rangeland center for the rangeland fall forum
We go to a different part of the state we talk about a different topic different aspect of rangeland
So Karen was involved with the McClure Center for many years on rangeland fall forum
This year we're actually going to twin falls and to rinker rock Creek ranch
Twin falls I'm going there soon. It's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be awesome
It's gonna be great um
Okay, April 22nd up at the skybox or sky floor whatever over over the blue turf
I'll call Daniel after this and find out how you pronounce the name. It'll be great
And I will see you there. It's gonna be great
Thank you so much. Thank you so much



