Collaboration & Idaho Community with Katherine Himes

I

Catherine has you back. I am thanks for having me Matt god bless it. Thank you for being here

You are the director of the McClure Center for public policy research. That's correct at University of Idaho

That one first try

There's a mouthful. Yeah, it is um you and I obviously had an episode a couple months ago. We've been in constant contact sense. I

I

Honestly didn't know what public policy places did especially public policy research stuff did until I met you and like

Oh my gosh, this is great

So you essentially aggregate all kinds of information about very complex topics that would be almost impossible for an individual person to go out and grab

Even if you could get the data compiling it all into like some kind of bite-sized chunk would be almost impossible

But that's what you guys do and then you offer it to the general public

So like I as an Idaho resident. I'm kind of like your client. You come forward and you're like hey, Matt

Here's the information that you might want to know about this thing. Whatever that thing is. That's right. You are our client

God bless it. What are we talking about today? I think we're going to talk about collaboration

Which is another thing that we do

Yes, talk to me. Okay, so

This is one of the five things we do. We facilitate

collaborations

We serve as that neutral facilitator to help bring people together or if they're already together

Then we help them find some common ground

and in part the reason we do this is because Senator McClure

Part of our namesake

He did this when he was in

Public service when he was in Idaho State Senate when he was in the US House and when he was in the US Senate

So he would see a lot of different groups a lot of different organizations a particular challenge

And people might not know how to come together or they might finger point

So he would meet with each organization separately and then work on bringing them together in the room and then helping them find common ground

the concept of collaboration

And I know I kind of mentioned this to you briefly when we were chatting about you coming on the concept of collaboration

is

So funny now because it used to be like oh this person's very collaborative. You're like oh, that's great

It's like oh, yeah, they they work with this group and they work with this group and they bring everyone together and you know

Emphasize people's strengths and you know fill in gaps where different groups have them like oh, it's so great now

If you're collaborative they're like bro

You're getting taken for a ride like it's a liability in politics

Nobody wants to collaborate and in fact anyone

That is you know, let's say conservative or Republican in the Idaho in the Idaho

Legislature do you see posts all the time? They're like they vote or collaborate with Democrats

And it's like I don't know what to tell you like I don't have to tell them anything

But it's so wild that that's that's kind of how

Collaboration is now viewed in certain circles in certain circles sure

It's a really important part of our democracy this idea working together and finding common ground and our communities

Right, and this is the emphasis. Yeah, you might be able to emphasize how dirty somebody is when they collaborate in the Idaho

Political system, but when we talk about public lands when we talk about you know individual school sites when we talk about

Rain fire management and rangeland collaboration is it the key like I had Charlie my favorite podcast

I will tell you right now. I published 902 this morning 901 902

Um of the 902 podcast my favorite one was Charlie line

he uh

I don't even know how to describe it

He took me on a journey through his story of of creating and really rolling out

Rangeland fire so associations or agencies that can never remember but

Essentially you have ranchers in the state of Idaho that need their rangeland winter rangel whatever it might be to not burn and

We obviously have limited resources both in the state level the federal level the local level and so you have these ranchers going out and

Fighting these fires with their own bulldozers with their own water with whatever they could just stop

Creating fire breaks the whole thing whatever they could do to stop

The fire and they were running into these mass conflicts with these other fire agencies

And they were also running into conflicts with the legal system because like you guys can't be out in like the liabilities too great to have

You know ranchers out here fighting these fires and the collaboration

That was at the heart of how they figured out a solution

It brought me to tears to hear that and

In the political world you can use it to hit somebody over the head with

But in the real world we need to collaborate if we're going to get anywhere

Matt that's a great example and I think you'll be excited that Idaho has been collaborating for a really long time

This example you mentioned of the RFPAs

The conversation that you had with Charlie

That's one thing that's existed in Idaho for some time

There are some other collaborations that have a formal name, you know, there's they are a place name

So for example, there's something called the Owaihi initiative and you may have had some people on

Over the years who have talked about this, but that was a particular collaboration

Very formal in the Owaihi's that part of Idaho

You also have forest collaborations that are going on across the state

Then there was a collaboration that the McClure Center facilitated a few years ago

That was at the request of the governor the governor salmon work group

And so sometimes it's local and it's

What you were talking about with Charlie and it doesn't have a formal name and some have a formal name and a specific duration

But Idaho's been doing this for decades

Talk to me about some of these right the Owaihi. I have heard some about it the forest collaborations. What are those?

I mean it's like all of these are

They're so fundamental to the very things that make the state go right when you talk about timber and you know land management when you talk about

Preservation of resources both both for you know like commercial grazing and then recreation and then hunting and the whole thing like

That's kind of at the heart of the Owaihi collaboration like talked to me about these and how these collaborations were really brought together because

It's like

It seems common sense when you're like hey, we all like this. We should all work together

But when as people do when they get in the room together

They can't all agree on what working together looks like or they can't they all agree on compromise as long as the other person compromising

Yeah, that's right. So generally these are around something natural resources

There certainly are examples of collaboration in other places for example education

You know, maybe more focus on a transportation project

But I think a lot of them that make the headlines are around natural resources. So you mentioned Owaihi initiative. Let's go back to that

Way back there was a proposal from Washington DC on how that part of the state should be managed their ideas including

A national monument and there are so many users of that land. I think that county in particular is maybe the number one county in the state in terms of percentage federal

I think it's pushing 90%

So there's a lot of use. There's recreation. There's grazing

And other things now there's mining permits and so forth

But they said you know the people who use this land

We may have a more durable solution a local solution compared to what's coming from Washington DC

So somebody brought together many organization like backcountry horsemen

The wilderness society

Idaho conservation league a lot of different ranchers and it was

Focused on what can we do together how do we see this land being managed and are there ways that we might be able to take some land

Off of federal designation and then maybe take some private land and have that be federal designation very complicated

But what was really important is they created this process. They had a neutral facilitator

Like you said it was hard to be in the room together at first because often they weren't in the room with each other and other settings

Right, these are people that may not have seen eye-to-eye. They may have had more finger pointing than finding that commonality

But what they came up with was a proposal then they brought that to US Senator Crapo

And they said here's what we think could happen

And so it's a really different narrative when you have a local group

Working with a federal agency or a member of our federal delegation and they've already formed that solution and that approach

The other the other side of it you often hear okay federal agency has this proposal

We're looking for community input and then the input is all over the place

Here you have a local solution that was baked that was durable that took quite a while to generate

But it's going to be lasting and so that actually was codified into law into federal legislation

This formal process how the land would be managed

Wilderness designation not wilderness designation grazing all different kinds of things

And that endures to this day. There's a board of directors. It's a pretty formal group

But that's just one example

If I'm asked if you take these different groups right what were the

prevailing conflicting principles between the groups right or if we just look at say like the ranchers

Like you run in a cattle operation out in the Y he's very open the whole thing and then you have conservationists

Right or or you know backcountry

Horsemen like whatever it might be what were those conflicts where it was like I don't like you

You don't like me. We're not gonna work together

And then of course the the bad part of that is the federal government comes in and just does it to you

Whatever they and they're not asking anybody right or they're not taking into consideration all the people that we're using in the right way

But what were what were some of those conflicts that people had to sit down be like okay

We agree on 90% of stuff

But this in the last 10% like these are the sticking points

So each collaboration or each group that's trying to come together or each group that's told they're going to work together whatever form it begins with

um

There are

particulars unique to that landscape those challenges those people etc

But I think one way we can answer your question is to talk about something that is uh it makes me smile because it's it's pretty much across the board with a collaboration

And that's this idea of positions and interests

So a position let's let's say you and I are gonna go out to lunch

And your position is

Catherine I want to go get Chinese food

Okay

And I'm like Matt I don't want to do that

I'm gonna go get tacos

You're like Catherine I don't want tacos. I want Chinese food

Then we start to get frustrated with each other because I really want tacos

It's taco Tuesday and you really want Chinese food

I got a hankering for the Mongolian right or whatever it might be maybe you don't want Chinese food

Maybe you want tacos. Sure. Maybe you want barbecue

But you are holding on to that position

And then and so again, this is a position. This is a position. Right. Okay, but then you're like Catherine

I'll let you I'll let you in on why I want to go have Chinese food

Because they have a patio

I'll be like fair

Okay, my taco place it doesn't have a patio and it's a nice day

And then you're like wait a second

Maybe there's a place with a patio and we both would enjoy the food

So are we going to go somewhere totally different? Are we going to go out for the funky taco?

They got a patio, but maybe it's something totally different. Maybe we land on pasta

Hmm

So we're moving from our positions which are whatever it might be this parcel

I want this parcel managed in this way. I want this river this way and not focused on a why

But just focused on this is my position and not parsing out like all the little details of like okay

This is my position because of these considerations

But then over time might be like hmm

Actually the reason is not because of you're just being difficult and stubborn

Somebody told you to have that position

There's actually this common interest that you have

You both love the landscape

You both I mean like in our instance sure we both are into the patio

We will go out for any food, but we want the patio or we want to have a beer or a fun soda or what a great coffee

Whatever the case might be

But over time when you can move from positions to figuring out those common interests

That's when things really turn a corner in collaboration and it takes time

One marker of success with collaborations is you'll see people say oh, hey

Wasn't your grandson's birthday like last week or hey? I saw your wife at the movie theater

Oh, hey, you know what like I made some jam and I brought some jam for you because you know like I know last time

That's your jam

But you know you start to see people as people yeah, you understand that maybe you really know a lot about this landscape or forest

Whatever that collaboration might be

So you can start to see things from that place of interest

I had this experience yesterday and I try to be very collaborative and communicative with my wife because again

I hate I hate positions, right? I don't actually hate positions. I hate getting stuck in positions because I'm always beaten up like

What's our like what's your concern right like I understand this is what you want and that's fine

Could you just explain to me so we make sure like maybe we can both again like you're saying so my kids are out playing in the mud

Yeah, right they got these hoses. It's the first beautiful day

And they've been dying to be outside playing in mud right digging these gigantic holes

They would dug these holes that were like three four feet deep and they were filling them up the hose water jumping in like

Yellen cannonball, which was crazy because the holes got big right

Superbuddy she comes out and she's like we got to turn off the water

Now mind you I wasn't asking her to like hang out with the kids. I was out with the kids. I'm like

Okay, how come and she's like this is really and she turns off the water

I'm like okay listen like I'm not against turning off the water

They are enjoying it. I'm just wondering what is it you're concerned about like what are you interested in in

Dressing here and her concern was one she's like I feel like we're wasting water fair concern

They're literally spraying the hose in the mud. I'm like that's true

But we're on a well and the hole is right next to the well

So this water's going down and literally going right back to the water source that it's coming from

I understand we lose some with evaporation and other things but like we're not losing that much. She's like yeah

But you know our pump our pump only goes 10 gallons a minute

And like if you're doing stuff out here on the hose and then we're trying to do stuff in the house

It won't work. I'm like I understand that and by the way if you're trying to run laundry right now

I'll totally have them turn it off

But if we're not using anything inside in this moment then we're not affecting that that concern right? She's like okay

So we kind of go back and forth. She's like I guess I don't care. I'm like awesome right but again

Instead of taking the we should turn the water off and me saying the kids are playing in the water

You beat up whatever you're concerned about and all of a sudden nobody really has concerns

I love that but it takes time

Yeah, and that's just a dude, you know ironing out the hose with this wife

It's not something that's like if she turned off the hose it wouldn't have been the end of the world

But when you're talking about people's livelihoods

That's a completely different conversation

But in this example, how long have you known your wife?

I know in our minute. It's been a while

22 years

22 years and then in a span of maybe 10 or 15 minutes you were able to move from positions to interests

Imagine if you were in a room with 20 people

Maybe five of them you know and you see eye to eye maybe you know all of them, but you see eye to eye with five

How long might it take you to move from positions to interests?

I mean it might never happen great

So how do you guys? I mean, obviously this seems like an incredible framework to start breaking down

You know with be it with somebody at like a PTA organization with a local school site or the Hawaii's like

Do you guys there's a McClure Center come in and try to initiate these meetings where you kind of introduce the framework

Around which you want to have the conversations or you want to help people get to which is like everybody's screaming

They're like hey look

We're all gonna get a chance to scream

How about we start with everybody writing down positions and that like you introduce that

Yeah, I think that it

Sometimes you can kind of write down positions. Sometimes you you really want them to focus immediately on interests

But it depends on how the table was set so to speak

So we we were not part of facilitating the Hawaii initiative that predates the McClure Center

But my understanding is in that instance it was kind of a very wide a very big tent

People came they wanted to do something, but they didn't know what they were gonna do together

And that was the challenge for that facilitator

um

We were involved in governor salmon work group and in that instance

20 people were selected by the governor to come together to make recommendations on

Idaho salmon and steelhead are an adromous fish

So that governor little could use their policy recommendations as he set policy for agencies as he was working at the regional

And so those 20 people

Many different positions, but a lot of shared interests were picked and they were told you have 18 months

You're gonna work together

And so we came in at that point to help them make these shared policy recommendations. So

Yeah, I

I love that that very much reminds me of the hat program the hunting and advanced technology that was put forth by

The department of fishing game they selected I believe 20 people to be on this committee both hunters and non hunters

They had people apply and then they're like okay guys

You have to make recommendations here's a bunch of data start parsing it out figured out

You're gonna make recommendations to us and by the way for us to take one of your recommendations and needs to be unanimous across the 20 people

But make the recommendations beat it all up tease it out and if you can't you know be unanimous in one position

Then we'll consider that whatever, but

It's that kind of thing. So what were the recommendations that got brought forward from the salmon and steelhead?

So there were I think I think 29

And that was a great amount

They spanned a lot of different areas with that particular topic, you know

There are challenges with ocean conditions with habitat with hydropower

They talk about the four h's

O and P and P is predation, you know

What's happening on the Columbia River with wait? What are the four h's

Hydro okay, habitat got it. Oh, boy, ocean

Oh, you're gonna challenge me because this was some time ago. I feel like I'm blanking on two of these hydro and habitat

Hatcheries, hatcheries, uh-oh, and then

Mike Edmondson is going to ring my neck that I'm forgetting right now. What was the fourth age? Yeah, but oceans and predation

So we were looking at they were looking at all these different categories and could they come up with some shared recommendations in each area

So that would this would set state policy and what the governor would bring to regional conversations with other governors and so forth

Um, so you know it took some time for this group to begin to

Start writing, you know first it was how do they get to know each other?

Seeing things in the field that was a really important part of this process was going to different places

Across the state seeing things on the ground

We saw a lot of habitat restoration

We took public comment at every every monthly meeting from people in that community

And that was another important part of the process was understanding their concerns about salmon and steelhead and livelihoods and

Economics and so forth

We had a lot of technical experts supporting this group

Primarily from fishing game, but some from office of species conservation

We heard from a lot of

technical people

There know a fisheries um like that's

National oceanic and atmospheric administration, but um just answering this group's questions about the science and about process

Um, and so then over the span of a year and a half they got to

Writing these I think it was 29 recommendations and we're all 29

Like aggressively adopted by the governor's administration and and reflected in his policies

So I don't know if I use the word aggressively, but the governor maybe enthusiastically adopted uh what the what the work group recommended

Passionately, but I don't know

Say but he but he issued a formal letter got it it conveying that he was accepting all of them and

And that some were

Delegated to a specific state agency or several state agencies and somewhere more policy positions

He could have at that regional level

But our charge was really helping this group get to that point of writing things down and seeing what they had in common

Rather than uh, there were some things that they decided to set aside and and and not pursue as a group because it wasn't unanimous

Okay, there's a huge

I

Talked to a lot of people and I really tried to dig down just my my uh

Compass by the way is really just

Me trying to understand if I can get to the point where I understand something you know on a show

They're like okay, you know what whether or not that's true or not

I understand this person's position and other people get to benefit from understanding that person's position

And then I try to have on other people if I have additional questions things like that

But essentially what I try to get to is grabbing as many

valid perspectives and competing ideas as possible around a certain issue and then be like okay

Here it is like this is first off. It's always way more complex than I thought

I had this guy Casey Stevenson in the other day from Paul I believe Idaho sugarbeat farmer guy and

Just understanding the pressures on the sugarbeat industry

Just that one growing industry. I'm like this is impossible

Like why would anybody engage this is crazy and again super complex, but

there are

There are problems in this state and across the country with our concerns around election systems

concerns around health and welfare

concerns around this concerns around that and

So many of the people that are loudest and most vocal over those things

I find are not digging down into the problem. They're taking a position

And I had a conversation just the other day with somebody that he's a buddy of mine

And he's very upset and worked up over like the Epstein files

He's upset about things that are happening on the national level and

He he and I also chatted briefly about the the child care issues that we're kind of seeing with fraud and you know

Minnesota and other places, right? You don't have to make comment on this

But the point is I was very fortunate to be in DC and I got to interview Alex Adams who's now the secretary of family services and

It's speed assistant secretary excuse me and speaking with him. I was like, okay, how did this happen?

And how could it be fixed in Alex Adams is a gangster like he lays out

perfectly

The the policies that were in place that set the table for allowing people there are plenty people who are doing good work

And then there are plenty of people who are engaging in some kind of fraudulent activity fine

Whatever and he was like this is there was one that was enrolment versus attendance

There was there's a so if you could get people to enroll

Then you you got paid for that instead of how many people actually showed up that's a conversation. There's one in

Preemptive payments so they were getting paid before the things even happened right there were aspects of

A verification right verification that was not able to be double checked or like all these different things and he laid out all these

all these

checks and balances that he was

Re-initiating and putting into place to try to prevent fraud and waste right

I spoke to my buddy about this. I'm like, you know

There are some people in the government that deeply care for America like you and I do and if you and I

Took these jobs which were not qualified to take because I don't understand the system like he does

But if we took these jobs, don't you think we would do everything we could to stop this stuff and what happened in the conversation was a realization that no matter what

Some people just fundamentally will not engage in the depth of thought required to have a collaboration

To actually understand the complexities

Because even if you start with Catherine and Matt we or Patriots we love Idaho we love America

We get put into this position where we're directors of a situation that is all messy and funky

And it could be a conservation thing. It could be whatever

We would try our absolute best, but there's some people that it's like it doesn't matter

Like how do you how do you work with people that come to the table but are convinced ahead of time that there is no real solution

You see some elections. I was speaking to a county clerk and he was like listen

There are people that we deal with even if they administered elections themselves

They wouldn't trust the election results

That's just the way this is and you find those people in every in every area at this point

So, but I think that uh, I'm sorry. I know that's a lot. No, I think it's there's

There's a really important piece in here, which is that not all collaborations are successful

Sometimes people walk away from participating in the collaboration

If if they have the option, you know, maybe

Because it depends how they're configured. Sometimes it's sort of

You have a seat at the table, but if you want to give that seat up you give that seat up

Sometimes the collaboration is very formal and it's like somebody has to hold that seat no one can quit

And so it's like if that one person leaves the whole thing crumbles. Sure

So it's not every collaboration successful

But there I I want to talk to you about something that we have coming up

Because one of our goals at the McClure Center is to help build the capacity for collaboration in Idaho

I love we need that really badly

Particularly in natural resources and so we've been inspired

We've had our eye on a great program that has been active in Utah for some time

There's also a program in Wyoming that was inspiring to us and

One of the parts of this program is an annual event and the event is open to anyone

So what we decided is let's do that kind of annual event here in Idaho

And let's pick a particular natural resources topic for that year

So our first year begins April 22nd. I'm really excited about this event

It's in partnership with the Andrus Center and it's in partnership with the University of Idaho range land center

But we're like we know what we want to talk about what we want to showcase is wildland fire

And collaborations that are happening in wildland fire

So some of what we'll talk about are big success stories

Things that have been going on for decades or years or it was an easy win out of the gate

But we're also going to be talking about places where collaborations are stuck

Or maybe where they fell flat and they had to sunset

Because it's really important to share what works well. What doesn't work well

And we have

Fantastic lineup from local organizations to federal government

But then we also have some

Like collaboration teasers or nuggets or goodies. How whatever you want to call them throughout the day

So one thing I won't I won't spoil it

But if you're curious about why collaborations get stuck or why they work we're going to be talking about the triangle of satisfaction

I wanted

I'm not going to tell you about the triangle of satisfaction

But we're going to have people who facilitate for a living

You know, this is the thing that they do and they're going to talk about positions and interests

They're going to talk about the trial triangle of satisfaction

They're going to talk about some other things. So yes, we'll have people talking about their work and fire at the local level or local federal partnership or

What's happening in a county? What's happening at a large landscape in Oregon

But we're we're going to have the new head of the US wild land fire service, which is a brand new federal agency

We're going to have the governor the tenant governor open the day

So there'll be a lot of stories about different types of collaboration in Idaho

And people who are coming to this it's like okay, Catherine and I can imagine who's coming I bet you have

State agency folks federal agency folks and we do

But this is also of interest to industry because wild land fire they participate in a lot of conversations and collaborations around this

We also have non-profit groups. We have some

neighborhood associations, you know the wild land urban interface is now

Even drier than it used to be and neighborhood associations are wondering what can they do around collaboration

We'll have students attending

But the idea is that I think you need to have every HOA president in the entire treasurality mandatory attendance

Okay, all right, let's do that

So so that's so the next year the topic might be totally different

It might be something like invasive species or something around water, but this year

It's wild land fire and those stories of collaboration

I

Man, we need more of this

We need and you guys are obviously working towards that, but it's

I feel like it to be to be really candid with you

I feel like there's an odd collaboration that I have with a lot of my a lot of my listeners and viewers even if I never meet them right

They're working with me kind of and engaging in in content that I'm making and coming with me on a journey of exploration to hopefully all be all arrive in a similar

Similar location not with a position

But or or even interest but having the same information that we're working at the table with and then people can decide whatever they want

Just like I decide whatever I want, you know in private and I think that's really important

But it is that willingness to start listening and start collaborating in that way offering time

Offering a position or excuse me offering up you a space in your head for other people to start, you know

We start tinkering around. It's like okay. Let's let's take in a lot of information

Let's all get on the same page and then people can figure out whatever they think from there, but it's

That has been a really beneficial to me. It has helped me get informed so

So much way more than anything else and and if we just had more of the collaboration kind of mindset

Which is you know again starts with listening

Starts with hearing people. I mean, I don't have to tell you that and maybe I'm totally wrong

You're like no collaboration starts with you talking and everyone else listening. It's like unlikely

But man, I think that's great. Where is this?

this will be at the

I struggle to say the name correctly and so I can just see the andra center

Shooting looks to me right now, but I think it's the the stuckly the stickle I can never say it correctly the sky center

At the sky center this so that's the stuckly stickle

It's named for a person and I'm also very apologetic to it's okay to that couple right now

But it's the sky center. It's above the Boise State University football stadium

So you can see the blue turf you can see the foothills you can see downtown

But will be there on April 22nd

For attorneys who are curious about this we do have continuing legal education credit

But it will be from 9 a.m. Until 5 p.m. And I'll tell you one thing. I mean, I'm going to make you

Come so you can hear about the trying satisfaction

But one thing that's really important in collaboration is relationship

So having meals together

Having coffee or a soda or beer together those things are really important

That's when the magic starts to happen going to the field to see projects on the ground

So we will have time for that conversation

Sharing lunch together

Networking

Because it's it's not just taking the information in it's also having those conversations and kind of chewing on it and saying

Yeah, what if what if we tried this might fail but let's let's try it and let's see where it goes

You don't have to convince me to come okay. I love I love coming okay good good. I had a where I lived there was a

What like wildland fire that came up like I was watching the flames in the smoke from my front yard

Had my sprinklers on I like ran up onto my roof and cleared the gutters like my wife and kids were crying

They took off I was trying to be cool. I'm like honey. Just take the kids to get nachos

They'll never even know this was happening the whole time. I'm like are we gonna die?

But I'm like trying to keep it together

You know, it was it was a real thing and the the the eagle fire district crushed it right like they did a tremendous job, but

You know, these are real problems especially in the treasure valley

You know as things get drier and you can't even say that now like you can't even articulate precipitation values without people getting mad at you

It's kind of like I don't know what to tell you man. I was I was talking to a

One guy Cameron bro exactly who was but he was like listen reality is

Near where near where he lived he's like we used to have snow at the base of you know some

You know, I'll range near near his place. He's like we used to have snow there like 10 months a year

And it was only like in the hottest of the summertime to the snowmill is like now

We only have snow like two months a year. It used to be year round and now it's like

Sometimes we don't even get snow and he was like that's just the way this goes

And he even acknowledges this like multi-generation Idaho and he's like you can't even really talk about it

Because people just start saying you're a crazy person or you're lying or you're whatever and

Like we're gonna have to square with that from a pragmatic position of how do we address

Preserving life and property in this area that is both being invaded by more and more rooftops

And getting drier and drier and drier and dwindling resources

Well, I'm an optimist and I'll I'll tell you that the great thing is that

People are really smart Idahoans are really smart. You know people who are on governor Sam and work group

They came up with these solutions together

Yeah, but Catherine then people like me that aren't that smart from out of state we move here

And we screw up that we pee in the pool

Well, then you come to the collaboration summit and you meet more people and you listen and you start to get ideas and yeah

I'm in okay. I'm in. It's gonna be great

Do you have like Idaho power going as well because I have to imagine there are working because they're constantly working to

To harden the grid. Yeah, they're I think they're they're gonna send some people to be in the audience, but there's also somebody who is

An employee of Idaho power, but she's also part of a collaboration and she's going to be on the stage talking about that collaboration

I love that. I love that April 22nd

Collaboration triangle satisfaction. You're not gonna tell me what it is quite unfortunately. Yeah, be there to enjoy it

You're gonna be there. Is this like how much does this cost for the public? Oh

Matt

This is a question. I should know the answer to it. We can put the details in that we can put the details, but it is

It might be $90 75 got you get a lunch you get some cookies

There's coffee

For those who are attorneys you get your your legal education

Do I get a lanyard to get a lanyard you may get a lanyard you may get a magnetic name tag either one

But we'll also have an expo and there are a lot of organizations that do work somehow in fire

Firewise, you know different plants things you can do for your yard

There are other organizations that are focused on collaboration and they're gonna have a table

So there's there are lots of ways to get more information when you're attending this event

There's a gal that I've wanted to connect with and we've we've pinged back and forth on LinkedIn

But she is working she works for a company that does

Like fire safe building materials and so it's they're essentially it's essentially like it looks like backer board

Essentially, but it's like magnesium cement or something that can't be burned

And they're like you just slap the panels together with some two by fours

And it's like you have this completely fireproof structure

Yeah, are there do you know what I'm talking? Yeah, and there's also a paint that's like a

So I'm not I mean, I don't know yet who who all will come to the expo

But there also will be others who are working

Maybe not so much on on physical materials for things, but other things

Right, I mean there's some groups that I think are focused on human health and fire and smoke and they're collaborating around that

That's a huge problem

Back in my former life in my former state. We had a name. You can't know. You should not be named

The the three years leading up to our our move

2019 2020 and 2021 we had the worst fires in the summer

Where literally you'd look outside and it looked like a red sun rising from what was the second Lord of the Rings movie

When they were like trapped in Helm's deep. I can't remember what it was, but it

Was terrible. You couldn't go outside. We we were living in houses that were built you know along like in the 1950s or or older

Which is not old for the east coast, but it's old for you know, you know, the coastal states

They were a totally not

Tightened down so they're leaking like sips. We can't open our windows because we can't you know

There's all kinds of smoke outside so we're running our air conditioners which for again in Idaho

That's not a big deal

They're good luck man like you're talking a thousand dollar electrical bill easy

And you're living in you know under two thousand square feet

We had all of these problems and it's like why and how is this happening and

Man, I would hate to see something like that before I'd home. It'd be terrible

So collaboration April 22nd collaboration. Let's collaborate. Okay. It's gonna be great

Um anything else you won't hit today. I just wanted to say a shout out to the andersonner and the rangeland center

Because it's their first go at the collaboration summit and they

Said let's do it. Let's do this together. Let's pull our networks. Let's pull our resources. Let's

Partner up so we can have a really strong event. So I just I want to thank them and

Um, I also think that it's it's a really important message that Idaho does lead on

Collaborations all across the state and it's been this way for quite some time

I think it's a special place. That's awesome

um

Karen launch ball. Yeah, is she on the rangeland

What what was it the rangeland rangeland center so she used to be the director of the rangeland center and she was for some time

And she's she's a professor of rangeland science rangeland ecology. Yeah at the U of I

So she's still involved, but there is a different director and associate director

And they have a whole board of advisors and some of them will be participating in this as well

And is that is the rangeland center out of U of I as well?

It's out of U of I's other people in Moscow. They're people in Boise. They also are very active at rink or rock creek ranch

If you don't know about that. I don't watch rink or rock creek ranch

Well, this is a pretty amazing partnership nature conservancy is involved University of Idaho would river land trust

But it's located kind of at that gateway the southern gateway to the wood river valley

So Bellevue you've driven on highway 20

And then you're going to turn on 75

These are just numbers. These are numbers. We're going to have to talk about this

This is an amazing ranch and so there's opportunities for students to see

Ranch management

They had a fire several years ago. So now they're really focused on postfire recovery studies

But Karen launchbot does go there and I hear she plays her mandolin and sings

Really really I had her on the show. She didn't mention the mandolin. Oh, yeah

And but they do have a lot of educational opportunities for the public

But that's it's a really I got to get her back on um, and so she's not she's no longer the director

She gonna be down here for this. I'm not sure. Okay, maybe I'll send her text

I because I loved having the conversation with her

You know the problem is very frequently and you experience this personally

I

Genuinely don't know things and I invite people on that are like hey you should ask this person come on great

So but it's this the first show is always this like wait what do you do?

How does that and then the second show obviously is much more focused. I'm like, okay

I get it now like this is the conversation that would be cool to have and you go from there

So Karen the like obviously he's like this rangeland expert and I have these dumb questions and then afterwards

I'm like, oh next time I'm asking you about this thing. So I've been waiting to see her. Yeah

Well, you should we should I vote rangeland some more every year

We partner with the rangeland center for the rangeland fall forum

We go to a different part of the state we talk about a different topic different aspect of rangeland

So Karen was involved with the McClure Center for many years on rangeland fall forum

This year we're actually going to twin falls and to rinker rock Creek ranch

Twin falls I'm going there soon. It's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be awesome

It's gonna be great um

Okay, April 22nd up at the skybox or sky floor whatever over over the blue turf

I'll call Daniel after this and find out how you pronounce the name. It'll be great

And I will see you there. It's gonna be great

Thank you so much. Thank you so much