Consistency Is the Most Underrated Skill in Sports: Joe Neal, Founder of 2SP Sports

0:00Welcome to the Dalton Driven mentality podcast. I'm host Jeff Lerga alongside Natalie Ferrance today. We have a guest on site in our newly upgraded studio. Joe Neil longtime friend of mine. Joe welcome. Thanks for having me. We'll get into your, um, I guess playing experience and then into your profession as I would say a very highly renowned and accomplished athletic trainer. Joe owns two SP sports performance. That's a facility that I trained at for a handful of years, something that I attribute probably gave me five more years of playing. So that's why I value you and I'm joking we've been longtime friends. And welcome to the podcast. You grew up as a baseball player. I believe a catcher. So we're similar in that regard now. I both being goalies.

1:11And I remember the year you started your business because during one of our training sessions, I mentioned, hey, back in oh seven, I started the small goalie training business. And you said, hey, that's the year that I got going training athletes as well. So fill us in on your playing experience briefly. Then how did you transpire that into baseball training first, I believe, right? Yeah. So, um, in as a college player, I went to Wayne State, so that was a very Detroit and about 2001, my coach was like, hey, um, do you want to work with some youth athletes as a side gig? And I was like sure, you know, like that would be cool. And I kind of just started training like younger kids, um, at that point. And it was something that was good at something that didn't exist. I want to, you know, when I have these talks, I commonly talk about like at the time it just didn't exist. And so it was something that like for me, I was an undersized athlete. I really understood that like I just I need to find places that I could

2:17create opportunity for myself. And so I really started to dive into the whole strength and conditioning thing at the time it wasn't as well known as it's now. And it's probably, it's probably, you know, 100 times it, you know, since I don't know, last five years. So previous to that, I mean, it's even more exponentially become a thing. And so at that time, we didn't we didn't have anything. We had, you know, Fisio ball. That was like a new thing, right? So, um, I was, I was handing that down to some of these kids and just trying to figure out my own route. And that was 2001. And then, you know, as I was, as I was playing, I just, you know, people started asking like, Hey, can you work my kid and this can you work. And so I had this like demographic like eight to 15 years old for like three or four years. And that's, it's right. I got going. And it was, it was basically based in baseball and then, you know, 2008 came seven game, six came and and you earlier on off stepped into our, our facility. And I was training the honey bake team that was the national champion that year. Cam Gibson was on a team. Igor son was on the team. We were junior and they're like, Hey, you know, we need, we need a trainer.

3:31Can we come from Hazel Park? It was close proximity was there. Like it worked out. And then I started doing a bunch of work for honey baked and, you know, a couple teams anyways. And that's really what kind of started my hockey career. And nail yackup off ended up being a client. Igor was a, um, was an agent at that time. And, uh, nail was in my facility for his ramp up to the 2012 draft. And that year, he became the first overall pick. And he pretty much set several records for the draft at that time of what it was. And that really put me on the map. You know, and then that's, uh, you know, the lockout came. Yeah. Zetaburg was there. And I was like, this is weird. Like, and then crown wall and night quest and Danny to Kaiser when he was the young even as he was, you know, starting out. And, you know, you know, Johan Fronson and like all these guys were in our gym, Bertuzzi. And, uh, you know, they need a spot. And, you know, I spent eight months with those guys and they had a good year that your Jimmy Howard.

4:36Yeah. Um, so that's where it all got going. Yeah. Your name dropping a lot of hockey players. At the time, no, um, baseball was, was youth. And we, we had gone from, you know, kind of a middle grade junior level hockey player really, really quick to, you know, NHL player. And, um, and then, you know, the baseball guys came about two years later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so then the baseball players, you know, came so, you know, since probably 2012, we, you know, I've been managing a lot of high end salaries and things like that throughout throughout that time. So that's, that's really where I got going. Yeah. Very cool. So something that we're kind of learning about you is that you have trained now athletes from super young all the way to arguably the best pros to exist in hockey, my opinion. So what did you learn early on? That means you realize great athletic principles translate across sports.

5:43I mean, I've had a lot, I've had really, really high end players that Krasniki trade with us for like six years. Um, and I mean, he's now, yeah, you know, the best of the best. Oh, yeah. I'm in the gym with those guys. That was just, uh, you were there. You were there. You were there with all these millions of dollars. Yeah. No, we've, yeah. I mean, I've seen the really high end. I've seen it really low end. Um, you know, from, from just developmental perspective. And the, you know, the athletes all have one thing in common is they'll have a singular mission and they want to be great at their whatever they do, whether it's shoot a puck, stop a puck. They want the movement solution to the movement problem. And as long as they solve that, that's all that matters to them. And so that, that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. I don't think the one thing I've learned is that they there's not one singular thing that matches what Jeff needed as a player or what Zach needs as a player. They all need something different at a different time. And some guys, you know, their profile and their pedigree is a lot different than other guys. You know, there's guys that, you know, I can tell you he was a worker being like he part of his persona on the ice was I'm going to work hard every day. And there are some guys that they don't work that hard, but they are a special talent. And there are a lot of guys that I've learned that never really needed me. And I was there to support them.

7:05When they needed it, but regardless of whether I was there, they were going to make it. So, you know, for me, it was as a as a as a strength and conditioning coach that was personally involved in the careers of these people. I said to figure out where I fit in and how I could help them with whatever they needed. And it wasn't for me and it's never been. And I learned that early, like it's never been about X's and O's or how much weight they can lift. And all the young coaches that are coming up and how they seem to be really enamored by like What this person can do and what their performance outcome is I've seen guys who have negative jump ability in their top level NHL players. And I've seen guys that have the ability to jump out of a silo and, you know, can't hit a ball out of the infield and baseball. And, you know, can't can't score a single goal. I mean, one of the worst athletes I won't name him here. One of the worst athletes that I've ever had was scoring 30 goals a year in hockey.

8:08Not somebody who lives around here, but I spent some time with them. Not a lot of them in the gym. You would be like, oh my God. I work with Pavlovdatsik for two years. Yeah. I mean, the guy couldn't put together three steps to walk forward. But if you put skates on him, he was the most unbelievable person. Extraordinarily strong. Great dude. Like just unbelievable. But if you watched him walk down the street, you would think that he was handicapped. Like at the end of his career. So like, to me, it was, it's never been about Dex's and I was, I mean, yeah, you know what, as a coach, I want to improve my players performance by all possible. But sometimes that's not what a particular athlete needs. And that's something that I think that these young coaches don't get. And that's why they can't, they can't you know, create as much buy in as maybe they want to because they don't understand that that sometimes it doesn't matter. And I'm not saying that like, it's not important. But I am saying that, you know, for me, my roster is pretty deep.

9:09A lot of people don't know those type of things about about my career. But like at the same time, you know, I was just a piece. I was never, I never put these guys out. A lot of people always tell me like, oh, you should put these people on your website and do all this. And it's just not important to me. You know, so the one thing with me that where you fit in my life when I met you, I was already a worker. I knew what hard work was. I would argue when I went in the gym, I've worked harder than most of the NHLers in there. I remember that you being like, this guy plays in the ECHL. Yeah, that's what we were. So for me, where you fit in, I think that's where I think your company to SP sports as a terrific job of taking that type of mindset of like what I knew of working hard was just being exhausted and just like, there was days I would go, I would like go swimming and do sprints in the morning. Then I come back and do yoga on my basement. And I go to the ice rink and just bag skate myself. Yeah, so that was working hard. Yeah. And you you opened my eyes to the programming you put together, which was how to help me and others and every athlete be much more efficient.

10:18So give you can kind of give us a background on that and what, you know, not only me, but I'm sure there's many others that weren't moving correctly. And then you go through your system to help. I mean, most of these athletes more so need a plan or an ideal of what they want to be. And in part of the problem with coaches, is especially even even athletes for you, you look at it as a day to day thing, whereas like what I've learned is we really need to create what the ideal outcome is and then work back from there. So it's always backing into what we want to be. And so that doesn't always mean that you, you have to back skate every single day because a lot of times what you do is you're building up this response to the system that's not going to allow you to recover and all that. And in some cases, like sometimes I get enamored by all the recovery talk and that's out there and things of those nature. But a lot of times. Eric Cressy said it really great. Like a month ago on one of his podcasts, whenever he was talking about how in the baseball world, I would rather have an athlete that is consistently 80% of what I want in an ideal world.

11:31Every single day, every single year, then somebody who is 150% one time a week or two times a week for every other year. And the consistency factors to me has always been the number one thing that athletes need. And one of the challenges that I see, particularly in professional athletes is consistency doesn't, when they're not in season, the consistency window was gone. You know, they don't have somebody. Joe for around. Yeah, they don't have the calendar. So they get a little off base. They want a little bit of freedom, things like that. And I go back one of my biggest business mentors is always talking about consistency. And what I have to do to make myself ready to go every single day and and be 1% better every single day. And if I can continue to make that happen on a daily basis, that's going to add up to a lot of things at the end of the year. Whereas these guys, they get out of season, they, you know, I got to go do this and every weekend's away and this I'm going to go have fun and things like that. You don't have a short window to be a professional athlete.

12:41I mean, and the windows only narrowing as we get as we get more into sports because the player in general has more access to things on a regular basis. So I think that the level of players is leveling up. And so those players, you're always going to have your data points. You're always going to have your runs. He's always going to have, you know, those, it was really top end players and then but the, but the next layer down is is very. It's a short like trans transferable rights to like, you know, for me, like I need to get these guys to create the idea that like look, I got a six year window. I got a seven year window. So not many people play can't fall or been with his entire career. He's about to, he's about to get to 1200 game like that is that's a data point like he's not even fair to compare against. But I can tell you that he is the most consistent athlete that we have had over the last 12 years. And you wonder why. You know, that's that's the case is because he puts that out there. He has a plan. And he's very talented. Like like he was, you know, he was born with a stick in his hand. Right. Like he just understands how to use that understands. I've escaped.

13:48It's a tool that he uses. He's he's solved that that problem. And and he knows how to leverage it. Right. So, you know, those are things that you for him. Me, it's never been about like, alright, Kim, I need you to be the world beater in the gym. Although I will tell you that he has the mentality. Oh, you are similar to any other, you know, we'll call it gym warrior. Somebody that comes in and that's that's their part that they play. And that's their persona. And that's why they are a professional athlete. Maybe not because like they had the over jamming skill of like, you know, scoring goal or something. Yeah, no, he's he's earned his his games. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And you described a lot of great attributes. I mean, I've been in the gym. You've had pro baseball players pro hockey players boxers. It's no different by the way amongst the level. Yeah. At that. And I would say that all these different sports at the levels that they participate. Varsie hockey junior hockey professional baseball high school baseball.

14:49You had a race car driver. We had a little race car drivers. Yeah. I'm a basketball player. He's got a race coming up. Ironically, he was. Ironically, he was very heavy person. Yeah, he was, you know, as a child, his weight wasn't real challenge. And that was one of the reasons why he was trying to get. But he was he was what you would consider to like a level down from like Indie car. Yeah. And so, you know, these these type of programs are spending, you know, seven to 10 million dollars a year. They're race performance theme. And so we were in charge of making sure he was race ready. He did work. You just want to you're trying to find that next edge. Yeah. The next thing to make you better. We got a little quick hit section now. Okay. Quick hits. It'll be. I guess kind of now and I go back and forth a little one at a time. So brief quick answers. I got to get my notes out. I'm going to start with one exercise you think is overused. Back squat.

15:51Best age to start strength training. 10 years old. One thing every athlete should do before a workout. They should warm up. Yeah. Right. And he's still though. Yeah. Yeah. A red flag. You noticed immediately in young athletes. They think they know how to train. Last one. Most underrated athletic quality. Consistency. You're going to say you're already answered it. Yeah. As you're going down that path. I mean, it's unbelievable how people think that they can improve without just stacking days. And that's something I use a lot is we want to stack days are our best players are the most consistent. And it's not. It's not a coincidence. Hey, Dalin driven listeners. If you've been around new sports for any amount of time, you've probably noticed something athletes today are training more than ever before.

16:54More ice time, more private lessons, more skills coaches, more showcases. But despite all that hard work, so many athletes still lose confidence after one bad game, one mistake, one coach's decision, or one tough stretch of the season. But the truth is most athletes spend years training their bodies, but almost no time training the one thing that controls everything else. Their mindset. That's exactly why we created the Dalin driven success formula built by me, former professional goal tender Jeff Lurg and an awesome mental performance coach Chris Palmer. It's a 13 week mentality building curriculum that teaches athletes how to develop confidence that isn't based on results. You'll learn how to manage pressure, overcome self doubt, build consistency, control your emotions, and create habits that carry over into every practice, every game, and into every day life. It only takes 20 minutes per week and the lessons are designed to last a lifetime. The program includes guided video lessons, quizzes, and a full year of access so athletes can come back and use it whenever they need it.

18:07And the results speak for themselves every athlete who completed the program reported improvements in their mindset and consistency and over 90% have said that they improve the way they train and compete as a whole. If you're tired of watching confidence come up and go down with every performance, it's time to start training the mental side of the game with the same intention as the physical side. And now visit dowdendriven mentality dot com and click on success formula to get started today. Well, this is a really good segue into my next question because we keep talking about consistency. We're talking about getting 1% better and just like having the mentality to actually want to get better. So how can you learn about an athlete's mentality by literally just watching them? I think one of the biggest things is how attentive they are when you're explaining something to them.

19:07So in my, in this is something I try to give to our coaches, but a lot of a lot of young people, I say that, yeah, with people that are new coaches. I know that they're doing things visual now and so they don't know how to verbalize what they want to say to somebody. So they always revert to some sort of demonstration. And I know when I say this, you're going to realize this, but I always, as a person, I always would verbally say the demo before because I wanted to learn how to express what I wanted before I just relied on the visual. And so I think a lot of times I can learn a lot from an athlete by how they listen to me and even my own children. So my, my oldest and my middle son now play competitive baseball to create what I would consider a pretty high level. And my oldest is a little bit like, you know, am I my younger kid?

20:07If you say something to him, he's very tuned in. And I just, I just think that there's, that's what you can learn immediately. If they, if they can somewhat conceptualize at a 50% clip of what I'm saying and then go and do it, I think they're a little bit more tuned in. And you just have as a coach, I got to know when to rely on the queuing that I want, whether that be verbal or visual or some sort of combination both. And so that's, that's the biggest thing for me is like, learning these athletes is I can tell like that, whether or not I'm going to have to go a certain direction with that. And what they're accustomed to and how they learn. I'm curious, like, do you see them getting better with that as you work with them? Absolutely. Well, you have, I mean, you have to hold them accountable. Yeah. So, hey, I'm over here. Like, you know, that's something that even in my own parenting, like as I'd be called age as the parent, I've realized that like, you know, kids just don't tune in it. And for the most part, you know, any type of athlete, even at the professional athlete, it's the same way.

21:11Like, you know, I've always said that with our staff that everybody wants when they're new, they want to go straight to the camp followers. I want to train camp followers. I want to train these guys. I want to change Jeff. You know, it's easy to train Jeff. You want to know why? Because he's going to listen to what I have to say and he values that. Where we want to start coaches, we're going to start them low. Because if I can hold the attention of a nine year old, there's a likely better chance that I can hold the attention, the attention of somebody that, you know, makes, makes a living doing this. And it's generally hard to hold their attention because they're, I mean, we talked about it before this. Like, people are distracted. You're, you're hitting the nail on the head. I was just training a nine year old this past week at a team practice. And I've been doing this for 20 years, over 20 years. And like, I'm talking and he's, he's looking here. And then I'm like, hey, over here, I get down like to show him the movement. I'm showing him. I go back and talk to him again. I do the thing.

22:15No, no, we're close. So I put myself right back to school. I had to get right back to day one. We do the same thing with our goalie coaches and that, and that was another one of the realities that's hit us with, with, with how often people are skating in this instance or training or doing activity. What I find is many athletes are still, they're doing a lot, but they're still needing a lot of reassurance. If you can, maybe through your years, maybe there's some examples, maybe you can provide of, was there an athlete, whether notable or not, that came in with not much belief that always needed this reassurance because some that we always reiterate is like the more you prepare, the more confidence you build, the less you should need reassurance. I don't know if you have any experience with that in the gym. I'm sure there are people who came in kind of weak and scrawny that kind of left it. Sure. Yeah. I think there's always, you know, I particularly have always liked, we'll call it the B level player.

23:16You know, the person that was the questionable triple A hockey player, the person that was like, you know, a JV high school baseball player, the East Coast athlete that maybe is, you know, I, I think that a guy like Dylan Kelly was a perfect example of somebody that like, started to embrace the culture of, you know, he was a coach, no, he was a SP player, right? Like I mean, it wasn't even there. And then like he started to really understand some processes. And then, you know, he started to verse all these different levels with that confidence that he built. And he's a perfect example. There are, there are always, you know, those, those type of players, I think, you know, when you get a, you know, a draft pick, you know, first, second, third round or in the NHL, they, they come with a certain level of confidence. Yeah. I can tell you that like a company like mine in sports wouldn't have been built off of those because those people are expected to make it, right?

24:18We, we have had notable players, players that were JV players, players that were players that nobody ever was like, hey, he'll never play. I remember sitting in on some, we've had, we've had people that sponsored players before that were maybe a little bit more. Yeah, they're trying to help out, right? You know, they're like this, this, this, he's a great kid, great family. Never going to be a division one player, you know, baseball for, in this particular example. And, oh, name is name, but he ended up playing at University of Michigan. And he was overweight in eighth grade. He ran in the 60 yard dash type stuff. You, you want to run a, you know, six, seven, six, eight, six, nine, somewhere in there. And he was running like eight twos in eighth grade. And, you know, we spent five years with this kid at the end of his high school careers, running six, six, five, shredded. Made his way. I mean, just, just, just did the thing, right? Yeah. And he, and he followed the steps and he showed up every day and had a earning a scholarship to University of Michigan. Now he runs the baseball program for Northwestern.

25:23And so like, you know, he might, he may have had a chance to play, you know, for, you know, some sort of get drafted. It's a lot harder, you know, now to, to be a draft pick in MLB, because there's just so many, you know, so many fewer tiers. But, you know, great player in his own, but those are the type of players that I believe that our business was built off of. Because people talk about those players. Yeah. That's the story of overcoming. I mean, that's, that's I was numerous players like that. I was telling that, I always love like the country music artists who just grinded through the. Yeah. Yeah. Then they were playing live. The next thing, you know, the home stadium, Morgan, Morgan, and I was working at a gas station. Yeah. And all of a sudden is, you know, that's how I always used it, compared pride because I spend a lot of time in the buses like those guys, you know. Yeah, when they get that success, I think it's, you know, it just, it just makes everyone around them, you know, feel, feel better about it. So to me at the end of the day, the sporting world is about achieving what the person wanted to achieve.

26:25And it's about what it's to be a division one baseball player. They don't all want to play professional hockey. I can name a number of people that were on like on good pass that early retire just because they got, they got sick of it. You know, and they didn't want, they didn't want to do the grind anymore, you know, not because they didn't work hard. But because they just were like, you know what, the chase, you know, it's not my identity. Yeah. Everyone success is different. Yeah. To me, just because I work, I've had the pleasure of working with a number of professional athletes that doesn't, I don't, I don't think that defines my own personal career. And I don't want it to, you know, yeah, you've talked a little bit about how confidence, certain, the confidence starts to get better when they're in a gym and they're starting to actually do these things and apply these things to their actual game that they're learning in the gym. So would you also say that an athlete's confidence has completely changed because of their physical preparation. You brought up how important warming up is. Yeah. I mean, I've seen, you know, athletes that have, you know, skill sets that maybe are a little bit subpar of what they need to be.

27:32And then you add in the equation of, of them getting stronger, a little bit faster. They get a little bit of edgyness to them. And then all of a sudden, number of goals start to creep up, number of good, forget goals. How about just good place? Right. You know, and like all of a sudden they're making better decisions because they've earned a little bit more confidence. So that has a direct correlation between them, you know, them doing better off the ice and them doing better on the ice. And then, you know, everybody in the world in strength and condition is going to say, if I have more availability and I'm more resilient, I'm going to be able to practice longer, which is going to contribute to my better outcomes as long as practice is good. Right. So you can just practice lousy and get better. So yeah, you hit the nail on the head where I was going to go with our final question. You said, if you're available more and you're resilient to the environment and what we all know that are in living in this youth, that youth athletic landscape is the over specialization of sports way too early,

28:38positionally, just athletically getting put in the same type of movements at such a young age, which leads to earlier injury, which leads to not being available. Right. And as I mentioned at the start of our conversation, I think you gave me another five years of my career because of that time, I knew how to work hard. I didn't know how to work smart. I know how to work efficiently. And then you help me understand. So now I want you to hopefully help others understand what are the things that you do, maybe even in more granular answering, what are the things you do in your gym and your programs that help. Sustain athletes longer because we know they're overusing muscles so early because of our landscape. I've had the luxury to train a lot of different athletes over 10 years, which is kind of a little bit of a unicorn in the world of strength and addition because you usually get a shelf life, you know, high school time.

29:40And maybe you'll get a guy for three, four, five years in professional sports, but I've seen two dozen people, you know, we have five guys that are over 35 years old that we train right now that are professional. And I think one of the things that we need to do is make them understand why it's so important. Now, the other part of that on the professional side of it is, what other job are you going to go to and get paid what you're going to get paid. And it's always like, I always laugh at those guys. And like, listen, you could work my job and you got to work 365 days a year or you could work your job and work to six months and be really happy. And like, to me, it makes sense to keep going. But for them, we have to really make a reason why. You know, a lot of these guys, they, I mean, you've seen it, people retire and their bodies change completely. So to me, like as a 44 year old with three kids, I want the functionality. That I have now 10 years from now, I want the functionality that I have now 15 years from now. And I think that, you know, in the fitness world that that's not understood these guys get out of sports and then just kind of degrade.

30:47And for me, part of my, my pitch to them is like, listen, you're not just doing it for playing the sport. You're doing this for, you want to have functionality for a long time. In the kids world, I want to make reasons why I want to give them the value reasons why every day, why they should be doing this. Like you don't like when your arm hurts, right? You don't like when your back hurts, right? Like these are reasons why we're continually plugging in these whatever exercises. There's no extra. There's no extra. What band work warm up. There's yeah, yeah, yeah. Like your, your warm up routine, you know, sometimes longer than some people would consider a workout because the whole time you're trying to, which I'm saying, in a good way, yeah, yeah, you're, yeah, the whole time you're, you're prepping your body to be able to peak at the right time. And one of the tricks you taught me was when you're glutes are firing, like you're, you're the rest of your explosiveness, your whole body, your, even your cognitive state is that full force and ready to really play at the highest level.

31:51So that was one of the small tricks that they you showed me just, you know, I know you make a lot of small little tweaks with positioning getting back to the right way. But that's really where I think that you, you help with the specialization as the prehab before the injury. If I can get an athlete to walk out with the mindset you just said, and there's some reasoning behind it, it doesn't matter what the exercises. So you ask me like, what's the worst exercise or what's overused the most. There's no exercise that's the best and there's no exercise that's the worst. It's just the next guys that makes the most sense for the person at the particular time that they're utilizing it. So to me, as long as you're utilizing the right exercise at the right time, then we've done our job. You know, and I've seen guys through bad injury before. And you know, mental state goes weird. But if they have the reason behind it, they can pull themselves out of those type of ruts, you know, throughout their career. And if everybody thinks that everything's just going to be rainbows and butterflies all day at high level sports, they're sadly mistaken too.

32:55Yeah. You know, like it's high performance athletes have high performance problems. That doesn't matter if you're a AAA hockey player that's, you know, on honey baked little seasons, whatever team, or you're, you know, you're on Columbus Blue Jaguets. There's going to be some sort of problem that you have to deal with. And for me, we're trying to arm those athletes right now with whatever they're going to come against in the future. And a lot of that though, that just took a layer on that was where I've never spent as much time doing single leg or single activities until I met you. Yeah. And I was, when I grew up, it was just the, the grant work of, okay, two legs back and forth, you know, forward to backward, you know, just just the old school working out exhausted. And I think that's where your expertise, your years of study, the way you build your programs is you really, like you helped the longevity of an athlete, you said, if you're available in your resistant, your value goes out right.

33:55The best ability is a very good. Absolutely. And that's what, that's why you helped me understand and I think that's where, with our youth sports athletes, that, that's where I think you guys doing a great job of just helping them understand if you're available, your value is much higher. And you spend your pro, time in your programs, helping that. I've learned that we're just secondary to the, to the skill, right? But we support the matter to the skill. Yeah. But if you haven't be available, you're going to get better, much better. They're going to get better, yeah. So yeah, well, thanks, Joe, for, for, for coming on. We've had many conversations like this through our years of knowing each other. And as, as we've both, you know, even said, regardless of this conversation, we know the youth of the athletic landscape has drastically changed. And since we first met many years ago, so I know you'll continue to grow and evolve. I know you, your company, I believe, is what five facilities now. Yeah. Five facilities are operating all over the southeastern Detroit area.

34:56And we look forward to building more conversations and more knowledge together and look forward to hopefully learning more about not only the athletic landscape, but we'll keep kind of filling you in and our dial and driven mentality. Because, because so thank you again. Thank you. And one thing we always say to all of our listeners is remember, stay dial and driven on your goals as that's the only way to accomplish success. And that concludes today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, please give us a like, leave us a review, and subscribe to our YouTube channel. But most importantly, we would love for you to sign up to our free newsletter. Visit our website, dial and driven mentality. See you next week. Bye.