David Collins Interview: Volley Drills, 3 Fears at the Net, & Developing Doubles Players

Welcome to the doubles only tennis podcast where you learn the best doubles

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today's episode. You're about to hear another conversation with a coach from

Indian Wells. This time David Collins. He coaches John Pears and Michael Venus.

Before I get to this podcast episode though, a couple of quick announcements. A

lot of you have been reaching out wanting to attend some of the doubles camps. I've

got two coming up in April. So number one is in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. It is

going to be April 11th and 12th. It's only about a 30-minute drive from the

DFW airport. So it's easy to fly in and out of regardless of where you live. You

probably have a direct flight to DFW. And then I've got some hotel

recommendations on the page, which I'll link to in the show notes. So you can

click on that to learn more and to get signed up. Right now I believe last I

checked I had eight spots available in that. So I do expect it to fill up the

deadlines going to be coming up in the next week and a half or two weeks depending

on when I release this podcast episode. And then another camp will be the

following weekend in Miami. So if you live in the Miami area or wants to fly in

for that, we're going to have an afternoon into morning session. The morning

session is currently sold out. There is a wait list for that. If you want to

sign up for it, the afternoon session does have some spots still available. But

I expect it to fill up very soon. So again, I'll link to that in the

show notes as well, so that you can learn more about that and get signed up.

So let's dive into this episode today. Coach David Collins coaches John

Pears, who won the Australian Open Mix doubles title this year and last year.

So back to back champion. He also won the Olympic gold medal with Matt

Ebtan back in 2024. David also coaches Michael Venus, who is a rolling

Garros champion in men's doubles. And then he coaches two rising players,

Emily Appleton on the WTA side and then Max Bayzing on the men's side.

In this conversation, we chatted at the site in Indian Wells, so at the tennis

garden there. And we talked about volley drills. He shares how to execute

two different volley drills, one of which he actually performed with me in

front of our group and sort of embarrassed me because my volley technique

wasn't up to the ATP standard that he is used to.

We also discussed his story, how we got started in tennis, how we got into

coaching. Then I asked him about the three fears that he says most club level

players have at the net. So he describes each of these three fears and you

probably have at least one of these. And then he talks about how to overcome

each of the fears that players have at the net. After that, we talked about

how to develop a club doubles player. He actually manages a club back in the

UK. So he has a lot of experience working with doubles players at obviously

every level of the game, but club levels specifically is what we kind of dive

into. And then at the end, we talk about how to make doubles more popular.

So this is a really fun conversation. David does a really good job of

explaining the drills in a way that you'll be able to kind of walk away and

go and execute them on the court with your doubles partner or with your

coach back at home. So I think you're going to get a lot out of this and really

enjoy this conversation. So without further delay, enjoy this conversation

with coach David Collins.

Hey, everybody. I'm here back at Indian Wells this time with coach David

Collins coach. Welcome.

Nice to see you. Thanks for coming on. So you coach John Pierce here and then

Michael Beatis as well. What did you do today in practice?

So today, we had solo practice. So it was just John. We had a practice

partner. We had Marcelo Mello because we played points all this week and

because of the day before the match, we just did a practice session, extended

warm-up, some specific things that needed to be worked on ahead of the match

tomorrow, whatever he'll play with Alex Diminar.

Okay. So you're doing I've had in specific drills and patterns that you

think you need against this team tomorrow, because you still have them,

is that all right? So yeah, we've scouted the team. So some of it was to

do with playing our strengths to their weaknesses and also just making

sure that we're doing the best that we can do with our with our job.

So they're making sure that surfers are presented as high, making sure

making a lot of returns and then some specific volley patterns.

But yeah, it's more like an extended warm up, but with specific things added

on throughout the session.

And then what's the status on Michael Beatis? And he's been out for a little

bit. Yeah. So Michael had surgery in October after it getting injured at

the U.S. Open. So he hasn't played tournament. He's been off. So he'll use

a protective ranking and he'll come back in Miami next week and play with

Yuki Bambri. And he's, yeah, he's done great, really, really pleased with

the work that he's put in and proud of the work that he's put in over the

winter period. There's been a challenging time, but he's done really well to

get to get through that and to be back on the match court in 10 days time or

so awesome. It'll be great to see him back as well. So we're here in Indian

Wells. A few days ago, we had a group of club players and you were nice and

up to come spend some time with me and chat with them. And like I was saying

earlier, if I had known you were going to embarrass me with this volley drill,

maybe we wouldn't have brought you in, but all jokes aside, describe the

volley drill that we did the other day or the, I don't even know if you'd

call it a drill, we did it in this living room, setting in a hotel room.

So yeah, it was, it's trying to emphasize the point that on

volleys, especially the forehand volley, to keep your hand as far in front of

the body as possible so that you don't turn away from the contact.

So what we did, we had you standing facing me with a racket, first of

all, and I fed you a ball. And the first reaction for you was to turn your

right shoulder. So the racket went back away from the, the ball, the impact

point that we wanted. So you went back away from the contact point, and you

had to turn back to go back to the contact point. So you, you wasted time in

that situation. And generally, you're going to catch the ball a little bit

late. And there's too much movement with the racket, especially with the ball

is coming faster. So then we took your hand off the racket. And I asked you

just to catch the ball in front of you with your, with your right hand, with

your, with your fingers, facing up, not your fingers, facing down. So

almost in the same position as you would hit a forehand volley. And you

didn't move your shoulder at all. You just kept your hand in front and you

reached forward to, to catch the ball. So then we put the racket back in your

hand. And we gave you a couple so that you could volley with your hand in

front with the racket in your hand. And then the final stage, the tough stage

of that drill is, I will either say volley where you have to volley the ball

or I'll say catch where you have to catch the ball. So you have to let go of

the racket grip and push your hand forward to catch the ball. But you, you

finished much better than you started. I struggled a bit at the beginning.

There was a lot of pressure with everyone watching as well.

Wasn't expecting to have to perform in front of everyone. But yeah,

that was such a good drill because technique is not something I focus on a

whole lot. Right? Like I specialize in strategy because it's what I'm more

just interested in and love. But obviously there's a place for technique.

There's no doubt about it. So I love little drills like that to learn. And now I

can give them and kind of take that to some of my own players. So I thought that

was really cool and wanted to share that. Tell us your story. How did you get

started in tennis to kind of where you are now? So I played a little bit as a

pro. Wasn't good enough or didn't play for long enough to to be able to get to

where you need to be to make a living out of the sports. So then I turned to

coaching first of all at a recreational level. And then as time has gone by,

I've combined the two with pro players as well as the club players at the club

I teach at in the UK, which is called St George's Hill on tennis club.

Big club. We've got 34 courts. We've got a good program there, both adults and juniors.

And I work with four pro players there as well as looking after the coaching team

that we've got and managing the coaching program. So the U2 you mentioned already, John,

peers and Mike Venus. And then the other two is Emily Appleton, who's around 350 in singles

and around 75 or 80 in doubles and Max Basing, who's primarily playing singles. He graduated from

Stanford in the summer and he's now close to 300. So I have those four players, which is good.

There's a real contrast with all of the work that I do at the club with the pro players and also

the club members as well. The club members also we get to join in sometimes with the pro's,

which they really like. And then again, the contrast of having both male and female players and

also singles and doubles. So it's across the board, it's quite a broad spectrum of coaching,

skill with those different players. So I want to move to practice on Instagram. I have this video

that I posted every six months or so. And it's you feeding to John on the practice courts here

at Indian Wells from a couple of years ago. And John is in the middle of the service box,

probably a little closer to the net. And you are feeding from the baseline and you just rip

balls at him. And then you shift over a little bit and then you hit a few more balls and then

you shift it over again and then you hit a few more balls. So describe the purpose of that drill

and kind of how it applies to the match court as well. Yeah, so that yeah, I remember that drill.

And I've seen it a few times on your page and it's good. There's some good comments that come

that come underneath. But that drill primarily is for John or the service partner. It was John in

this case, being in the service partner position. So with the serve coming from different areas. So

either the serve would be wide. So I'd be feeding from outside the alley or close to the outside

tram line or I'd be feeding from the middle of the baseline to replicate a body serve or I'd

feed close to the center mark on the baseline to replicate a serve that's gone down the tee.

And then John will be covering a specific area. He'll either be covering his side of the court

or he'll be making a poach. So in the feed will be determined by the pattern that we've arranged.

I'm not just randomly hitting balls and hoping he's going to get it because at the speed that

the ball is being fed, we could just put the ball past him in a whole double score because it's

just him. So it's sort of within his range, maybe at the extent of his range, right at the

right at the end of it on some of the balls. And we also will throw in a lob so he doesn't just get

comfortable sitting on top of the net, knocking balls off. But again, it goes back to the drill that we

did with with you and I in the in the lounge of the room, keeping his hands in front when the ball

is especially coming very fast because if as soon as you take the racket away from the impact,

you're going to be in trouble. So when you're doing that drill and this is one of my favorite drills

to do with club players too because they never work on these angled volleys right all the time when

they're working on volleys, they're practicing hitting back to their doubles partner. So then

they get out to the match court and they coach or make the right move and then they volley back to

the baseline player. But when you're doing this, how do you think about the reset for John? I'm always

some of the time, I feel like I'm not that worried about the movement pattern, but other times,

I want them to get the movement pattern and the volley. How do you kind of balance that? So

we'll time each feed will be timed with his split step. So there's two ways we can feed it either.

It'll be just a drop feed. So he'll move forward, split step and then I'll feed or he'll wait

for me to bounce the ball, then he'll split step and then I'll see that. There's two different

timings because he's got to get used to different timings on the from the returner. If the returner

is taking the ball earlier, obviously he's going to have less time to move at the net. If the

returner is standing further back, like some of the singles guys do, he's going to have more time

to make his move and he can't move too early because then they'll look to beat him down the line,

maybe with the ball. But yeah, it's a good exercise. We will do that every single session,

that drill just to try to make sure that there's enough numbers, enough volume on the service partner

so that when they get on the match court, they're really sharp. Every ball that's come to them,

they're either getting the ball off the court or if they don't get it off the court, they're finding

the back end of the player at the baseline. Got it. Yeah, I call that the most important

volley in tennis. That's one of the, I think I have like an Instagram kind of slide thing where

I call it that because it is really like it's it's so important to have that first volley after

the return. So I want to move on to a question. I asked you the other day and feel free to give

the exact same answer. Unfortunately, we weren't recording it. But if I gave you a player, a club player

today and said we have to make them as good as possible over the next 12 or 24 months,

where would you start? So the first thing we do, we would have a look at them play to see

you know how they play doubles. What game style do they have? Do they stay at the baseline? Do

they stay at the baseline and lob? Do they like to return them volley? Do they like to serve

where do they sit in the sort of spectrum of the game? And then once we've got an idea of where

they play and where they're most comfortable, then we will look at how we can improve the areas

that they're already good and then make the weaker areas slightly less of a weakness. So we get

like a slightly higher base level and then the good things will try to make a little bit better.

So how do you think about each of those? So there's the weaknesses. So like I don't like hitting

back hands from the back of the court. Luckily in doubles, I can mostly run around my back hand,

especially in my level, they're not hitting it quite as hard as these guys out here.

So how do you decide if we're going to focus more on you know sharpening your strengths or kind of

asking your weaknesses? So I think there has to be as much work done on both. A lot of the time some

some coaches certainly at club level will focus just on things that the club player or recreational

player are not very good at. So and then if you're not working on the strengths as well as the

weaknesses, the strengths stop being so much of a strength. You've got to continue to sharpen the

sword. I guess it's quite a good analogy because if you leave it alone, it's going to get blunt

and then when you need to use the sword, it's not going to work for you. Right. That makes a lot of

sense. So let's go through some of the net play stuff we talked about the other day. You said there

were three fears and I feel like I've heard this from Louis and a lot of the kind of British coaches.

So three fears at the net. So can you go over those? Yes, the three main fears for

recreational players, club members would be firstly getting passed down the line. They feel like

they're letting their partner down if they get passed down the line. But they don't feel like they're

letting their partner down if they get beaten cross court with a ball because they've got their partner

behind them as a backup. But we tried to get them as upset with the ball beating them cross court

as they are with the ball beating them down the line. That's one of them. The other one is getting

lobbed because generally the recreational players don't have a great overhead. So we do a lot of

work with trying to get the members hitting a lot of smashes in each session because in recreational

play, the lob is a key part and the final one is getting hit with the ball with the ball being

hit hard straight at them. It doesn't happen a great deal because at recreational level, the ground

stroke speed isn't particularly high. So the reaction speed will be relative to the ground stroke

speed. It's not like you've got somebody like Mike Venus hitting forehands against a club member.

That's not going to be a great match yet for people up there. But they would be the three

biggest areas. And I think that's quite comedy. A lot of the British players, I'm sure that you've

spoken to on the past. We've gone over those things as well with you. Yeah, for sure. I love

I love hearing it from different people though because each time I hear something new and

the thing I think I take away from you describing it is being just as frustrated, getting passed

through the middle as down the line. I don't think I've heard it put like that before. I really like

that a lot. I think that's one thing the listeners can kind of take away. I think they don't worry

so much about it because the partner is standing behind them and they can get a ball. If they get

passed down the line, the partner, assuming they haven't moved or signaled or planned a poach,

where the player at the base line has moved behind them to get the ball, it's going to beat them

down the line. But if we try to get them to sort of cover their territory, I like to put cones

down or lines down on the court and tell them now you're a football or soccer goalkeeper. So if you

can defend your goal and make sure no balls go through your goal, then then you're doing a great

job up at the net. And then we just have to agree on the territory that they have to cover

because it will be different for some players to other players based on the physical aspect of

the player. If they're young and athletic and they can move pretty well, then the space that

they're covering can be a little wider. If they're an older club member, their space is going to

be smaller, but there'll still be consistent guidelines between the way the pros cover the court

and the way the members cover the court. It just might be a slightly smaller area for the clubs.

Yeah, that's one of the things that feel like a lot of club players maybe

don't understand. And even, maybe even pros is that the game and the strategy and the tactics

are all very similar. It's just happening so much faster out here. I do think the lob is more

effective probably at the club level, but as you said, they're a little bit slower to get back.

The overheads aren't quite as good. And the lob that Mike Venus hits is the same speed as the

lob that a club player hits. Right, you can't hit a faster lob. So I think that's the one area

that's kind of a difference. There's a few, because the service partners are so close now. So

that you're trying to get as close as possible so that you can get the volley much easier to get

the volley off the court if you're closer to the net. But that does leave you susceptible to a

ball that goes up and back behind you. So you've got to make sure you're doing the work physically

so that you are able to get back with, you know, two, three steps max to get to the service line.

If you can get to the service line before the ball gets to the service line, you've got a pretty

good chance of making the overhead. But if the ball beats you to the to the service line,

you're going to be chasing the ball. And once you start chasing a lob, you're not in a great position.

Right. So I want to shift to one final kind of topic here. And that is making pro doubles more

popular. What have you seen change since your time on tour? And then what would you like to see

going forward to help get more eyeballs on pro levels? That's a great question. But maybe I think that

you know, the doubles guys work just as hard as the singles guys. They do spend just as much

court time. But the rewards are nowhere near as big because the publicity around what they're

doing is nowhere near as big as the publicity for the singles guys. So if you look at viewing

figures for a singles match with some of the top guys playing. If you look at a doubles match with

the top guys playing, it's not even not even not even comparable. And a lot of the time the doubles

guys are stuck out on outside courts with not, you know, it's not well publicized. So if it's

not well publicized, people are not going to come and come and watch. So it's almost a chicken and

egg situation. You're not going to, the product's not going to grow unless you invest in the publicity

of the product. There's, there's especially at this tournament, a lot more singles guys will play.

But the main for me, the main thing is that the publicity around it because the doubles guys,

you know, they're fantastic players. All of the top guys, you know, their skill set is

unbelievable. It's very different to the to the singles players. But the majority of the world,

tennis at club level play doubles, not singles. So it's strange that there could be a much better

job done of marketing it, promoting it, making the players more visible, giving them more time on

show courts, on bigger courts. Then the kick back from that is people know who they are,

the publicity is greater. So I think that that could be one of the big things is the publicity side

of it. Yeah, it could have kind of a snowball effect, but somebody has to get that ball rolling

a little bit. Yeah, there has to be a desire to, for it, for it to happen. And at the moment,

I don't think there is a desire from, yeah, from the, the tool to make it grow as much as possible.

Right. What, where would you start? And also, would you make any rule changes to doubles?

A lot of people say that they would like the servers partner to start behind the service line or

switch to only one serve. Would you make any rule changes? I think, I don't think so.

Yeah, I don't rule wise. I don't think there's an interesting one having almost, I think is,

I'm not familiar with pickle, but I believe the service partner can't touch the ball. Is that right?

In pickle ball? There's a similar rule and pickle ball. Yeah. So I don't, because how many

doubles points end with the serve and service partner? Yeah, cleaning up at the net. How many times

do you get an extended rally? And when there is an extended rally, the crowd of what crowd there

are, depending on which court they're on, go crazy because they love to see an extended rally with,

you know, quick hands, there's volley to volley, you know, quick reactions, you know, the crowd

really enjoy that. So if you could extend the rallies by maybe either having, as you said,

the service partner slightly further back, could you do it with one serve only so that the

returner has more advantage. It's easier for the returner to get the ball past the service partner.

So then the rally starts to extend. So I guess they're two ideas. But I don't think, well,

I don't think it would change. Yeah. But I think the players also adapt when

they adapt to situations. If the serve, someone's serving super fast, players get better at returning.

If players are great at returning, the service partner has to get better at taking up good spots

up at the net and cleaning up. Right. So whatever changes, there's always an answer to the question

that's been asked. Yeah. And that's how it continues to evolve, I guess. Yeah. I think like without,

I mean, without the marketing, these real changes won't matter anyways. Yeah. Right. Like if

nobody's able to find it on TV or nobody's watching on the court, then it doesn't matter how excited

it gets if there's no eyeballs on it. Yeah. Because for example, on a, you know, masters,

every doubles is is televised or streamed or streamed at 500. It's streamed or televised.

250 is not that at that level of the game that don't. The only place you can find it are on

gambling websites where they stream the match. So there is a camera on the court, you know,

often the guys are playing because the singles guys have played on that court and it's been televised.

So there is a camera, but the the tour for some reason doesn't want to publicize the doubles at

250 level. When I've asked them about it, the answer was because the product, the production of

the product, not the product that they've got on the court, that the production would not be

a suitable standard for them to to stream it because it would just be a fixed camera.

That seems like a load of crap to me. It's strange. That was the answer I got.

Well, I so I watch a lot of these matches from home because I can't come to all these tournaments

and especially Australia, some of the outside courts, but like often the quality of the video,

it's like you're looking through a fish bowl and the camera's way above the court. Yeah.

And they stream those. Yeah. So like if that and it is being streamed to a gambling website. So just

click, press the button to click the stream on. I don't know how difficult or easy that is,

but the quality at some of the, at the Australian open is one thing out because it's the most recent

major. Like the quality of those is really poor and they stream that. So like why is the quality,

the quality is not any worse. Yeah, it's some of these other shows that that seems like they just

don't want to deal with it. Yeah, it's just strange. That's frustrating. Okay, so last question for you.

This popped into my mind something we talked about the other day. I think it was a question

from one of the club players. They said, you know, we play a lot of leagues here in the states and

a lot of times a captain is trying to figure out who to pair together. Yeah. And you talked about

some of John's strengths and weaknesses and who's an ideal partner for him as an example. Can you

share how you think about pairing together different double styles to make a great team at a club

level? Yeah, at a club level. So yeah, club level. I think the most important thing is firstly,

players have to play where they're comfortable. If they're not happy being up at the net and they

don't volley very well, then stay at the baseline. There's no one to say you, there's no, you have to

play at the net or you have to play at the baseline or you must always come to the net as a team

together. If you're not great at volleying or you're frightened of getting here or you're worried

about getting lobbed or passed down the line, then play to your strengths. So play where you are

most comfortable firstly. But secondly, it's in a club environment. I think it's great to contrast

skills. So if you've got one player that loves to be aggressive and loves to come to the net and

to intercept a lot and compare them with a player who's very consistent from the baseline.

So the person at the baseline can do all the work and the person at the net can take all

of the credit rather than have maybe two net rushes or two players that like to both stay at the

baseline. I think the contrast of one and the other is great. Nothing on the tour also. It's great

to have that contrast with a team. Yeah, I feel like you see that on the tour too. You'll see

teams make a deep run in a tournament who both have similar styles and against certain teams.

It works really well and then they run into a team that it doesn't work well like if both players

are, you know, we only have one mode and all we do is get to the net. Eventually you'll find a team

that's good at lobbing or really good defensive back or something like that, right? Yeah, I agree.

Awesome. All right. Well, this was a ton of fun, David. Thanks for coming on. Hopefully we can do it

again and best of luck this week with John. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this

week's episode of the doubles only tennis podcast. If you're interested in diving deeper into the

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