Don’t F**k Around, Get A Prenup!

0:00This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors? Who will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other. And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough. But we're not stopping, are we? Ah! Listen to revisionist history, the Staten Island problem, on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I do burn to it's your celebrity mentor Kelly and Salona today.

1:01I'm joined by one of our favorites from that's our nation and host of the podcast after reality. It's Courtney Roberts and high court. Hey Kelly. Today we get to welcome back to the pod who's a wealth of information. He's a divorce attorney and huge on TikTok. And today we're going to talk all about pre-NEPs. Welcome back to the pod Dennis Patrono. So my knowledge of pre-NEPs, I'm so excited to talk to the expert. I did not have a pre-NEP for my first wedding, my first and only, my second engagement. I asked for a pre-NEP. He declined. And so I called up my wedding four days before. That's decision of my life. Smart, good. Provide, protect and keep you safe. That's what men are supposed to do. That's called boundaries and that's called insisting on them. I love it. Dennis is Courtney here and I'm in the throes of a divorce and to my knowledge it's cheaper to keep her.

2:01Yeah, I think for the most part, but here's the funny part about pre-NEPs these days. More and more women are opting for pre-NEPs and asking for them than ever before. I mean the recent stat that I looked at was like 52% of women are asking for pre-NEPs. Which is so foreign to me because having been in this industry for 25 plus years, I'm accustomed to, you know, here's this over successful guy. I, you know, gets married and says, hey, I want to pre-NEP for all the stuff that I have before we get married. And of course they don't tell you I want you to be a stay at home mom. I want you to take care of the kids. I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want. But if we split, you don't get anything. Gritty, greedy. Well, last time I checked, I don't have a pre-NEP and I'm in the middle of a divorce. And I had just moved into a new house. I have three little kids. Everything I've done my research on you, everything that you're saying I'm going through. So just to give a little context, my dad didn't have a pre-NEP. He was married for 40 years.

3:01He's now remarried for seven years and what's his is his and what's hers is hers. But I don't have a pre-NEP and I am going through a very contentious divorce currently. Sorry about that, Quartan. Yeah, yeah, and I was at least relatively familiar with that. That is, so it's funny because if you pull people, they say the four most scary things in life. Top four, one of which is death, right? The other of which is divorce. You know, out of the top four scariest things people want, you know, when you say, what's the scariest thing? So I don't envy the situation you're in. And as much as I've seen it from the outside, I've never been through it myself from the inside. So stay strong. Then I'm also within attorney. So I have an order of protection. Just shout out to that. I'm going through the proper channels. But it is scary, Dennis, to talk about that.

4:03It's like grief, you know, the five stages of grief and also having three little kids. So I'm sorry to jump in so quick, but last night was the first night I didn't have the kids for a week. Dealing with three little kids on your own is also scary. Yeah. And it's funny because there's, but listen, there's two sides to that, right? So there's the scary part of having them with you and managing everything because that's a lot. But then even worse than that, not having them with you. Because when you establish that relationship with your kids, I mean, I have two of my own. It's like you go through so much to raise kids well. And I say, well, okay, anybody can just throw together kids. And then it's not as hard. But to raise kids, well, it's a lot. But then you establish such a bonds with them that when they're not around. It's funny because my brother-in-law, we see each other from time to time. He has four kids. And his last kid just went off to college and he said to me, Dennis, he says, I think this is the high watermark in my life.

5:03Not to say you don't have your own independence and your own stuff, but like, you know. No, but it is. It is. I keep saying it's so easy to get married. And it's so expensive and hard to get divorced. Yeah. It's a lot. And like I said, I'm moving, new surroundings. And, um, but yeah, it's, I mean, it's like the only degree they, they grant you. It's like going to college, right? Right. You can get married, done, easy to get unmarried. The thing that I want people to know, it's really, really expensive and really hard. Yeah. Well, it's not just hard and expensive, but actually it's a trend. So basically it's a filing. And so it's not up to you, your lawyer and your ex-husband. Right. As Dennis knows, it's the state that decides when and how. And so you're dealing with a fourth party. Um, and I'm sorry that you're going through that. You know what's interesting, Dennis, too, because I'm such a huge fan of yours on TikTok.

6:03Oh, thank you. And many great things. You talk about pre-naps not being romantic. So when I tried to, you know, and so my pre-nap, um, my ex was said, no. But a lot of people who are getting these pre-naps are realizing that these are just pieces of paper that really aren't valid because once you go into the floor divorce process, people are like that pre-naps. It says it's not, it's not, doesn't work. I'm not giving you X. I'm not giving you one. What are your thoughts? It's, it doesn't work if you do it poorly. If you do it well, it will likely work. So if you walk into my office tomorrow and you say, hey, I've had these assets pre-marital. I've earned these things. I built my company company. I released a record album. I published a book, whatever it is. Those generally can and should stay yours as part of the pre-nap. If you say in the next breath, well, I want to say that I don't have to pay child support if she has the kids and I don't want to do it. People want to put ridiculous things in pre-naps.

7:03And the problem is then when you get to court, they just look ridiculous. So now the court and and and and the standard varies from state to state. As I, as best I'm aware, there are some other states that basically say, we're just going to do a redo when we look at your pre-nap and see if it's fair. If it's fair according to the laws in your state and you know, in a way that they would resolve the divorce in your state, then it's upheld. And if it's not, then they just revisit everything. So then to me, it can kind of be somewhat worthless. But here's the point. I've never been the divorce lawyer that says, let's see how we can screw this person out of that, screw this person out of this. It doesn't get you anywhere. So let's put it this way. Even if you did that, what do you end up with on the other side? Somebody who's pissed off, they feel like they've been taken advantage of. And then we say, okay, good luck. Sit next to each other at graduation. Go to your first communion together, watch them get married. That's not going to work. That's never going to work. Can I ask a question real quick?

8:04Yes, sure. So I'm in the divorce. My divorce is filing and it's filed. It was June 19th, my son's birthday, which is a national holiday. But I put a waste clause in because I've been dealing with infidelity in my divorce filing. So, you know, you know, I'm in Arizona. So it's a no fault state. So all the infidelity. But let's say he's been spending money on girlfriends, this and that to kind of walk it back a little bit. I put a waste clause in my divorce filing. Can you speak to that a little bit? Like what we earned during, you know, I have the podcast. This is that. The other thing. Just to kind of run it back a little bit. Recoup that for sure. Hey, recoup that for sure. And again, you know, one of the more contentious divorces I had, Westchester County, which is one of the bigger one of the higher income areas, one of the bigger areas in our, in my local. Yeah, there was lingerie for the girlfriend that we're. Oh, there were. Was it good lingerie or tackish? Oh, oh, good God.

9:04I mean, listen, from this fellow's behavior, I mean, he was kind of like, you know, and then come home to the wife and want to kind of have the cake and eat a two sort of thing. Yeah, that's what I'm dealing with. So Dennis, do these clauses like infidelity clauses, waste clauses, do they actually hold up in court? I think it really just depends on your particular state. And in my mind, if it's me, if you come into my office and you're saying like, hey, I want to try to uphold this, I usually suggest no, I usually suggest those are very difficult. Those are very difficult to uphold. You know, at least in New York State, because they're going to look very far into the judges, we do mostly vanilla prenumps. And I prefer to do vanilla nuts and bolts prenumps. I don't want to start putting these fringe terms into it because then you know what? Now it's subjected to being questioned and motion practice and possibly hearings on it. And what does that do? It costs you money. Do I want to charge you more money after the prenum or less?

10:04The point of the prenum is to save your money. It's not to charge money. So I'm like, look, if you're worried about this person cheating on you, you have much larger issues to really analyze. Bigger fish to fry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So speaking of these prenums and let's bring in postnumps as well, should they be updated and if so, how frequently? They can be updated, but what you want to do with a prenum is you want to keep it as broad as you can. So it will cover the future. Now, at things changed during the marriage. Postnumps are more difficult to uphold than prenums because prenums is before you get married. You kind of protecting things. Now, once you start asking people for things to negotiate things they've acquired during the marriage, you're kind of flying in the face of the standard under the law because technically in New York state, once you get married, everything you're earning, everything you're building is generally together.

11:06Unless you're prenumps says something otherwise. So what I prefer to do is the way our prenump is crafted, it's crafted in a situation that basically says you're separate stuff that you had prior to the marriage is separate. And if the two of you say, hey, I decide whatever I make under my name in terms of building, etc. is mine. So, okay, I have a software company and I invent something during the marriage that I've done solely exclusively in and of myself. I want that to stay mine and mine alone. I mean, those generally can and should be upheld. But if it's like we work together and we bought a house and now I want to say like who's split. Sometimes those are difficult. The postnumps I suggest when marriages are on the rocks and you're trying counseling and it's just not working, you're not quite sure where it's going to go. While you're still relatively level headed and you're not mired in the midst of litigation, try to reach an agreement. I love that. I love each other. Try to be fair and do a postnum.

12:06I mean, I suggest look, either get out or both jump in with both feet to counseling and try to work through it. I also love on TikTok how you talk about mediation and that's how my ex-husband and I we got divorced. He was a high profile person, the fashion industry. I was a high profile person in the fashion industry. And it just my best friend was like he literally drove up to my house. He's like, this is how you're going to get divorced. You're going to mediate or your accountant, his accountant, you guys are going to tie a bow on it. We're going to put it in the press one line in the press and it's going to be over. And it was the smartest, smartest thing. The only thing that I regret, like obviously the postnump, the pre-nump wasn't was the smart thing for me to do with my last relationship. What I didn't like is I didn't like all the press around it and I was very concerned. The daughter of a lawyer, very concerned that people were going to perceive me as this hard woman that gets the pre-nump and not a hard woman.

13:06I'm just a mother protecting my nest. Mama bear. I'm a mama bear too. I Kelly, I love you. I'm going to take your energy. But I think that the next question should be how should you approach having someone sign a pre-nump or a postnum? And also you're in the public eye. That's as well. But Dennis, how should you approach having someone sign a pre-num that's being resistant to the idea? Well, let's put it this way. Let's start with being concerned or not about being in the public eye. Yes, it's a very real thing. And for many people, your livelihood depends on your public image. How ever, right? However, you got to protect yourself and protect your kids and protect the things you've worked so hard for. So for the successful ladies out there, especially, and even just, I have a lot of young professionals that they're banking on themselves. They're like, I know what my brand is. I know what it's going to be. And I don't want a chance if this doesn't work that I lose everything.

14:09So it's interesting that you say that because I work in high-end real estate. And so I work in the transaction business and my other life. And I was afraid when I asked him to sign a pre-num, and then I called the wedding off and the press was coming going. And I was like, oh my god, the press is going to come after me and say that I'm all these things. And what's interesting is that my clients were like, that is so buttoned up. You were so amazing. The press and the public were very, very, very welcoming. I mean, this podcast really started because of my situation, which is so unbelievable. Good to talk to people like Courtney. They make money. The press. Everybody has a job to do, right? Right. But I'm just my point. My point is, is that I, it could have gone the other way. It could, it could have been a way where it's like Kelly's a monster, all these things. But it was the opposite where we have this new podcast. We're learning all this information. You know, we're bonding together as a community. Like how do we help other people so that they are not in a situation like ours?

15:14And so I was just very, very, very, like so happy about it. But it was interesting because some people in the real estate industry were like, oh, this is going to hurt your business. I was like, no, no, no, they love it because I'm locked up. They love it that I'm like very professional with my personal life and my professional life. And it was like, it was like, it was like literally pivoted me in even a bigger direction. That's a lot of weight on your shoulders to carry. Yes, I mean, looking at those little frail shoulders, like I have, you know, I just got back from Sedona. I've been feeling and Dennis, you can hop in whenever. But that's a lot to carry mentally. Like I think in what I saw on you, Dennis, it's like the woman tends to be the she fault parent, right? And that's just how it goes. Like I'm moving, I'm filing for divorce. I'm leaving the husband who's a narc and narcissists. Like, so you're, you're dealing with the public media stuff. And you can't carry all of that at some point you will break.

16:17Right. But here's the thing. Guys have been doing that for decades, hundreds of years without any back up, right? So now, so now here's what I say. So, so you need a support system when you go through your divorce process. And anything associated with a breakup, a pre-napp of, but whatever it is, you should have a support system. And if you're in a position where you're a high profile person, you got to have a PR person there getting their arms around this thing because there is, there is nothing easier in my opinion or more compelling than female empowerment of all of your six months. And say, hey, things guys have been doing for decades, things guys have been doing for hundreds of years now, just like 51%, 52% of women are now asking for pre-nups. There's no shame, there's no embarrassment, there's nothing to explain. If everything you've worked so hard for, including your family and your kids, you're stepping up and protecting.

17:18And you've got control of your situation and you deal with it. There's no reason. In my opinion, there's no more compelling story than that. Hey there, everybody. Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. We are your one stop shop for the biggest news making headlines of the day every day. And it starts with our morning run. Yes, go for a run with us. Maybe you can take us along when you're on your actual run outside or if you don't feel like going out still. You get what we're saying. It's our morning run. It's our daily news rundown of the top stories of a get you going before you even finish that first cup of coffee. Whether it's the latest information on the latest outbreak affecting your family's health updates on the Nancy Guthrie investigation or the killer Montréal out of Massachusetts, we've got you covered. Yes, a lot of news happening these days and some of it's breaking. We are on top of it every single day. There's a bunch of true crime going on out there as well. And so much of it dominating on social media. We have our eye on it all listen to the Amy and TJ podcast on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

18:27Self-care September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self care actually means. Yes, self care can be a long walk. It can be in everything shower. It can be putting your phone or do not disturb, but sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff and understanding your patterns, your boundaries, finally figuring out why you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s podcast and each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s from relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment, just becoming more comfortable with who you are. Unlike the quarter life crisis, which is depicted as the collapse, the quarter life reinvention is the expansion and worth of something when we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves. Nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September don't just take care of yourself. Get to know yourself as well. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

19:28Hey, it's Bobby bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday on our podcast. Lots to say with me, Bobby bones and Matt Castle. We also bring in friends and mostly match friends who are current or former NFL players, some of the biggest names in music and entertainment. And then we have some really great conversations that can pretty much go anywhere. The great. Pac-Man Jones after the game of the national task force for police officers was at the stadium. Hey, buddy. Yeah, you. Come on. And one of my favorite segments we do is called situational awareness where Bobby and I give each other real life situations and figure out what we'd actually do. You're in training camp and the rookie quarterback has one good throwing session in front of the media. Suddenly everybody online says he should start over you week one. How do you handle this? You just go back out to practice the next day and we firmed the mess up. Listen to lots to say with Bobby bones and Matt Castle on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez and I'm October Gonzalez, but you can call me Toby. We want you to join us on our new podcast. No say for it's with October and Tony Gonzalez.

20:36We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce and all the nitty gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say I hate that job. You're probably just gonna meet with some rich guy and he's gonna whisk you away and I'll never see you again. Oh, this is all. Would you say a deal is actor? I don't even know there's this thing is deep. No, no, no, I mean like I didn't even get on the scene list like I'm not even average. I'm not even passing. I'm failing. Listen to no say for is with October and Tony Gonzalez part of Michael tour podcast network available on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. I love that you're dispelling this stigma by 52% and saying that women are now, you know, making these great decisions and I love that so much just because you get a pre-knop doesn't mean you're not a beautiful woman. You know, you get a pre-knop because you're protecting your family like a sea.

21:38Well, I hear you talking about core values and I, you know, I'm still in the throes of it and like for me like, you know, my husband isn't in the tech world. We don't have a lot of assets, but I'm curious. The houses are only assets. So he's going to either either I either have to buy him out to walk it back. You know, Kelly sorry, you know, I'm going through it, but that's our main asset is the house. I'm on it and I would like to ask that, you know, either he's going to have to buy me out or I'm going to have to buy him out. I don't want to live there anymore because there's too many ghosts. I've just moved like I said. Dennis, if you could speak to that for somebody who, you know, might be going through it on a smaller scale. Yeah, I mean, I think listen, we handle multi multi multi million dollar asset divorces and we also handle just general two wayjourners, you know, moms, moms a teacher, dad works private and like like that. They're they have a couple of, you know, pension plan, retirements and a house.

22:38We deal with hundreds of those if not thousands. Yeah. As you go through these processes and I'll share with you another story when I I never felt worse about myself than when I applied for my first mortgage. The more and this is this is many years ago, right? And this is my wife had already been very successful at that point, right? I was a lawyer. It was a very successful, but I didn't really have my finances in order. Mortgage broker looks at my style. You got too much debt. You don't make enough money like. Give me the house. I'm buying it. That experience allowed me to build on something that got me to where I am. So the reality, the harsh reality of going because most people don't do a network statement until they go through divorce process. The harsh reality of looking at that network statement and saying, hey, I need to make more money. Hey, and that is a motivating factor. That knowledge and that experience is power moving forward.

23:42You can't look at it like, oh my god, I'm terrible at it. You know, it's a power. It's a starting point. It's not an end. So when we talk about the cases where yes, maybe all there is to divide is a house. But then what I say to you is why in the hell are we going back and forth with two lawyers to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars to say, so I'll give you a good example. I'm your lawyer, Courtney. Courtney, your husband wants to know if he can pick up the children at 430. No, no, I can't. I can only do 415. Okay. Now I charge you for that phone conversation. Right. He changed the locks on me the other day and I have the order of protection. So I can't get my personal belongings. So just a what there's going to be 25 phone calls. Every little 15 minute increments to change to change. To change. Right. Right. So what I say to clients is I tell them and I think, you know, and what pains me the cases where there isn't a whole lot to really fight over.

24:45And yet my client says to me, I don't care, Dennis, that this is going to be contentious. It's going to be a knockdown dragout. I'd say average divorce lawyer per side in New York state is 20 to like 50,000 dollars. Like, what are you going to, where is that money coming from? I'm going to make me cry. Yeah, but you know what? You will get through the process. You will be better on the other side. You just have to stay patient and keep your team. Your support team close to help you through it. You know, what was interesting is that, you know, people think that after I called off my wedding that my life was just going to be like, you know, it's like, oh, Kelly, so rich, everything's so great. Well, my taxes weren't filed correctly. So after I called off my wedding, my there was like crazy amount of taxes that hadn't been allocated for organized. So not only did I feel like absolutely, even though I was protecting myself, then I had to then I was like in a financial situation.

25:54So I'm like, let me get this straight. So I do the right thing. And now I'm getting slammed with a big tax bill. Like, how does this math work? Like how, you know, so everybody caught my my the reason I'm bringing this up is not because it's a pity party for me, but to tell you that you're not alone. And there's there, you're going to have these emotions and you're going to go through these things and you know, financial trauma. So it's not it's your it's a constant. You're like, how am I supposed to do this? How am I? Can we say that again, please? You're not alone. You're not. You're not alone for people who are listening and tuning in. You are not alone. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the same boat that you're in and you will get through it. You will see that side. Just keep your eye on the horizon. Block out the noise. Kelly, you're the talent. Kelly, by the way, like, I don't do well with paperwork. I'm I was married, hopefully soon to be ex, who's an attorney who's also intimidated me with the law. I'm I'm surrounded by attorneys, but you talk about like how scary it is going through that. But Kelly, you're a talent. And so I'm I like, I've always had people helping me. I modeled for 15 years with like paperwork and documents.

27:06That alone is scary. I have a stack of 100% that's filing up right now because I'm going to get spousal maintenance. I'm going to get child support. And I have to fill out this document. So when you go talk about your taxes. I mean, talk about Uncle Sam. It's that's it's stressful. Right. But people just think it's like people think that in our industry, if you do something that's bright, that everything else is just so great. Well, to your point, there's all this this this back a house that just kind of can be really, really devastating. Okay, I need to ask this question because this is a big, big, big question, Dennis. Pet co-parenting. Oh, what can a pet claw, how what what can a pet clause help with after divorce? Well, not having children as much, but they are having a lot of pets having raising pets. The problem with pet clauses is that the way New York State views it now, it's almost like custody for children.

28:10So in the same way, theoretically, that custody for children could be a battle whether you have a terms about it in the prenup or not or because this situation is constantly changing. Not as much with pets as they are with kids because kids circumstances changes age school, etc. But I think look, I think if you're doing a prenup, put it in there. Put it in there because minimally, even if it's not entirely enforceable, the judge will get the flavor for or the spirit of what the two of you had already contractually previously agreed to. So you can't say when you come into court, well, they never had a relationship with the pet. They didn't want anything to do with the pet. No, it's in the damn prenup. We negotiated for it. I just grabbed my cat the other day. It's my cat. I've had him for 10 years. So Kelly, I just feel like children pets is just like another tether for either the fake female or the male. Whoever is the one that is has more animosity because there's always one who takes things differently.

29:17It's a tool and I don't mean that in a positive sense. It's a tool for them to put this. I have one going on right now and I've had tons of them where they use the pet as a lever, as a tool to get at your emotions. They don't give a shit about the pet they never have. They don't care. You want to go on a vacation where you have to pick up the cat or dog at 7 a.m. You can't go on the vacation. Right. Right. And the problem for me is that those cases tend to many times not always. They tend to also be the cases where the only asset is a house or you're not you're not multi-millionaires. You're making decent living. You're doing really well successful. But you don't have 50,000 a side, 100,000 a side to fight over the pet. And what brings me about it is I have to say I get it. But you got to take away the things. You got to take away as many things as you can from the other side that they're using as tool to get at you with.

30:20You got to take those things away. How do you do that in writing? I mean, I grabbed my cat the other day. So can we dig a little deeper there? How do you take those tools away? It's in the prenump or what if you don't have a prenump? Because I just grabbed my cat the other day and I've had the cat for 10 years. I think you had a prior to the marriage? Yes. Okay, so that's not as much of an issue. If it was something you acquired during the marriage, during the marriage, technically, you know, a little bit different. Pets mean a lot. They're like, sentient. They're like kids for people. It is. It is. And it's very easy. If you say, hey, it's the 40th anniversary Corvette that you know that she really loves. And like, I'm just going to like hang it hold it overhead and like try to get out of it. That's fine. Because then I just say, let go of the car. Who cares? Whatever it's worth to get a let them have it. But when it's a pet or it's kids, you can't do it with kids clearly. And now you really can't do it with pets either.

31:22I mean, listen, I have three German Jeopard's and two horses and two donkeys and a bunch of chickens. So we have a little bit of a hobby farm at the house. So I couldn't imagine not having the pets around. Do you have any amazing divorce stories where you've had to tell somebody like you got to lose the Corvette? Because that's also interesting to me. Like, how do those conversations go? Like, how do you let somebody down gently? Like, you don't get the chickens. You don't get the Corvette. I mean, I would love to hear a little dialogue on that. I really don't do it, to be honest. I really don't let people down gently. I don't because that's not what you pay me for. You pay me for that. You pay me for it. And I use this quote a hundred times. I think on the last show as well. I tell you what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. Right. I tell you what you want to hear. I'm going to say, oh, we're going to do this. So many lawyers do that. Even when even in the initial consultation. We're going to get this. We're going to. I remember overhearing consultation.

32:24We did a little while ago. And the other side says to or the prospective client says to our lawyer, I just want to make sure we do this and that to stick it to them. Oh, wow. Not what we do. Not what we do because here's what happens. If I do that, let's say I'm unscrupulous and I don't care. And I just want to make money. Let's just say that's why I'm, but I'm not. Then I take money from you. I fight him or her. Then I ask you for more money to fight him or her. Then I ask you for more money to fight him or her. And then at the end of the day, we don't get what you're looking for because it was ridiculous from the start. And the judge saw through you just trying to stick it to the other side. Now I've spent $100,000 of your money litigating for something you didn't accomplish. And guess who they want to stick it to now? You. You. The messenger always gets killed. Don't shoot the messenger. And also I think like because I'm doing with an attorney, there's a code of asset. And you have a good, you're a good human being and you're a good man.

33:26But I would love to hear. So you don't you let him you just tell him how it is. I just tell him sometimes they go and find another lawyer. That's okay. It's so funny because people ask, well, do you ever represent narcissists? You know, people who are just out to get the other side is like, yeah, yeah, I do. I take them as I find them. But my job is to try to translate what you want, what you're seeking to accomplish in a way that's going to be palatable or understandable to the judge, right? But if you're coming up with something that's ridiculous, I'm just not going to do that. And I'm just and I'll say, you know, look, here's what's fair in this case. Here's what we're going to try to accomplish because I think what the resolutions into worst cases, the small things are everything. So the little nuances in your custody or your assets are make a huge difference over time. Dennis, when I when I was getting, you know, winding down from the from trying to get the pre-net organized, I was with Maryland Chins was my lawyer and I'll never forget walking into her office.

34:30And I was so nervous. My hands were clammy and I sat down and I just started bawling my eyes out. I was like Maryland, why can I not meet a man who wants to protect me? What is going on? That's what I came in with. Not like I'm such a baller. I'm going to do this. I'm on housewives. I was like, what is wrong with me? And I think a lot of women feel like that as well. They're like, why don't they love me enough to protect me? And I think that that's a very common thing. And when I told a friend of mine that I was crying, she's like, why would you be crying? I'm like, because like I'm just so disappointed in myself, in him, in... It's not a shame. I'm just embarrassed. Yes, I was so embarrassed. I mean, for me, I was humiliated.

35:30Even though it was the right thing to do. The good news is that he's not my lobster. I'm going to find my lobster. He's going to come. He's going... He's on his way. I know he's on his way, because I feel finally after, you know, my ex-husband who is so much older than me cheating on me. And then this guy not wanting to do a prenup. Like I am now, like I feel so good about myself. So I'm not going to cry in a lawyer's office anymore. I am going to embrace my new future. Yes, I'm going to come with you. With my new mystery human, whoever that is. You don't need somebody. You got yourself. And I keep telling everybody that. Like the freedom in taking your power back is like what we're doing here today and helping people and Dennis and Kelly, thank you. Like it's scary. You cry. It's like the five stages of grief right now. I'm obviously in the man phase today. But you got your cat back. I got my cat. I got a smoky Robertson.

36:32Smoky Robertson. Let's create. Hey there, everybody. Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. We are your one stop shop for the biggest news making headlines of the day every day. And it starts with our morning run. Yes, go for a run with us. Maybe you can take us along when you're on your actual run outside. Or if you don't feel like going out still, you get what we're saying. It's our morning run. It's our daily news rundown of the top stories of a get you going before you even finish that first cup of coffee. Whether it's the latest information on the latest outbreak affecting your family's health updates on the Nancy Guthrie investigation or the killer Montréal out of Massachusetts. We've got you covered. Yeah, there's a lot of news happening these days and some of it's breaking. We are on top of it every single day. There's a bunch of true crime going on out there as well and so much of it dominating on social media. We have our eye on it all. Listen to the Amy and TJ podcast on the I heart radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

37:37Self-care September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self care actually means. Yes, self care can be a long walk. It can be in everything shower. It can be putting your phone on do not disturb. But sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff and understanding your patterns, your boundaries. Finally, figuring out why you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Jenna Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s podcast and each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s from relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment, just becoming more comfortable with who you are. Unlike the quarter life crisis, which is depicted as the collapse, the quarter life reinvention is the expansion and growth of something when we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves. Nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September, don't just take care of yourself. Get to know yourself as well. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I heart radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

38:39Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez and I'm October Gonzalez, but you can call me Toby. We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce and all the nitty gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say I'll love. I hate that job. You're probably just going to meet with some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away and I'll never see you again. Oh, this is all I would say a deal is actor. D? I don't even know there's this thing is D. No, no, no, I mean like I didn't even get on the scene list like I'm not even average. I'm not even passing. I'm failing. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez part of Michael tour podcast network available on the I heart radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Bobby bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday on our podcast lots to say with me, Bobby bones and Matt Castle. We also bring in friends are mostly match friends who are current or former NFL players. Some of the biggest names in music and entertainment and then we have some really great conversations that can pretty much go anywhere.

39:45The great. Pac-Man Jones after the game to hold national task force for police officers was at the stadium. Hey, buddy. Yeah, you out of come on. And one of my favorite segments we do is called situational awareness where Bobby and I give each other real life situations and figure out what we'd actually do. You're in training camp and the rookie quarterback has one good throwing session in front of the media. Suddenly everybody online says he should start over you week one. How do you handle this? You just go back out to practice the next day and wait for them to mess up. Listen to lots to say with Bobby bones and Matt Castle on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, last and final questions. What are the things you see people freak out over when it comes to premiums? I think the biggest things they freak out about is figuring out how they're going to discuss initially having a prenup.

40:47And the fact that the other person needs to be part of the plan. I mean, I think the problem with a lot of the, you know, I hate to sound like it's sexist, but a lot of the guys that I've dealt with that are uber successful and maybe you're marrying somebody substantially younger than them. Like you could you can just see the control sort of like there. But they're like, you know, the reality is, but wait a second, but you said that you they're going to be a stay at home mom and you're going to take care of this. And then well, I have to give what this could be overturned like I can't say I won't have to pay child support and I won't have to remain it. Like no, like, you know, and I think listen, the one of the biggest problems we have with prenups is that people don't know how to approach that conversation. Right. And they wait until like we had one just the other day. Can you get a prenup done in four weeks? Like I can, but, but you know, when you try to rush a prenup and you, and they don't have a lawyer and you just want me to draft something hand to them to sign and here's handing it to them like on the, on the alter steps like

42:04those really call into question the reliability and the sustainability of that prenup. A prenup done well has a lot of disclosure, which is exchange of information, a lot of transparency, which means see what each person has on each side. And it takes a lot of time to negotiate well with each person having a representative. That's what makes the prenup most reliable because if you do that prenup where you handed to the other person, that your lawyer drafted the prenup, they don't know much about it. You handed to them in the alter steps and they sign it. And then six months later or a year later, five years later, you want to walk in and say, oh, but I've got a prenup and they're like, but this person didn't have a lawyer, they didn't have any disclosure, they didn't know anything about it. They felt like they were under the rash. That's like the Gary Turner, the first golden bachelor got married on TV to Teresa Nist. And she was the one that wanted to look it up, wanted a prenup. They got married on ABC show just saying.

43:05And but it seems like a fight, you know, and like you said, you don't want to sneak that in. You have to, it sounds like it starts at the beginning of the relationship. It's so interesting because when you buy a home or you're buying an apartment, you have to show the assets. So it's like, wait a minute, all of a sudden you go to get married and you don't want to show assets. Yeah. And I think too. And I think, and I think we're going to, we're going to say thank you guys so much. We've gone through so much with the emotional trauma, the financial trauma. Jenis, you have the best advice. Your TikTok is amazing, insightful and fun. Courtney, you and your family love you. You everything goes well. I'm here for you on an offline. I'm here for you. You guys are both shotgun for me. All right. Thank you ladies. This was so much fun. Do it first. I love that Courtney. Do it first. Get the information first way before the prenup. So you know who you're marrying.

44:06Sorry. I had to squeeze that in. No, no, squeeze it all in. I don't want to rush the conversation. I want to, I think that we all have a voice. And I think that you and all three of us have something in common, a common thread. There is no accident that we are here today to use our voices and our power to help people that don't know that have to run in the house and grab the cat. Now the locks are changed on me. Like you don't know what you don't know. And I hope that we can prevent other people from feeling is terrible as divorce can feel because it's very scary. And if you don't have a support group, you think you have no one. You don't have no one. You're not alone. Right here. Right here. This is your support group. Oh, you're going to make me cry, Dennis. Seriously, I love that. I'm going to go get a cheeseburger and a cold beer on you. Yes, please. I got a cheeseburger. We got to laugh our way through it. You know, I know my sense of humor is in for everybody. Let's go. I want onions.

45:12All right, you guys. I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of I do part two with me and Kelly and Dennis. If you did, please rate, review, subscribe. Maybe share it with a friend that this could help. That's what we're here for. Do you have questions about pre-numps? Maybe you need some advice. We want to help. So send us an email or leave a voice mail. All the info is in the show notes and follow us on social media. That's the digital age we live in. I do part two and I heart podcast. We're falling in love is the main objective, but also please fall in love with yourself. Thanks for listening. 30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors? Who will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other and what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough.

46:15But we're not stopping, are we? Listen to revisionist history, the Staten Island problem on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.