Dopey 598: Leah Lost the Love of her Life to a Fentanyl Overdose, Stealing Crack from Cops, Phish Business and Hippy Shenanigans

0:00I'm a flat mate, take it on my toe. Now I have no crack to smoke. All I've got is this don't be afternoon. And now I'm sitting here, past apple from 30 beers. Losing on the dopey afternoon. Save me, save me, save me from the tea. I've got three bad habits trying to break me. But I love to hear that dopey show.

1:00Maybe I don't need more blood. Losing on the dopey afternoon. It's a podcast and a support and work with Dave and friends. This brand new episode of dopey is brought to you by the wonderful people at Oro Recovery located in sunny Southern California in Malibu and Western Los Angeles created by our friend Bob Forest who I need to give a call. And his friends, Dr. Evan Jared and Bob, we love Oro. Their motto is they help people with compassion and connection, not control. But that's not why we love Oro. We love Oro because all of our people that have gone there have had an incredible experience

2:03that they reach out to me and tell me how amazing it is. Their team has decades of experience in treating, co-occurring mental disorders, including SMI for those who know, no, they have incredible fucking amenities, sound bath meditation, equine therapy, yoga, surfing, it's in Malibu, it's in a little slice of heaven right on the Pacific Ocean. Check them out at OroRecovery.com, Newsweek rated them top five anywhere. So check them out again, OroRecovery.com. Welcome to Dopey, the podcast on drugs addiction and dumb shit. My name is Dave. And as always, I'm just, I'm so grateful to be here.

3:03So grateful to be sober, thrilled beyond my wildest dreams to bring you another Dopey episode. But you know what isn't thrilling? This fucking dental shit. I don't know how many of you are keeping track of my dental saga. We're the great, I don't know if I said his name before, but he's a dope. His name is Ben and he's been fucking hooking me up with dentistry. We got three implants, three crowns and one of the crowns is now loose, mother, focker. And I went out to Brooklyn in some apartment building that looks like the Oracle in the matrix lives there. And the guy is like, we need to cut off the crown and we need to, you spend $1,200 on a new crown. And I'm like, fuck it, just get rid of it. I don't need it. I give up. I was like, do I need, it's in the back of my mouth. Do I need, do I need this tooth?

4:03What do I need it for? He said, it will help your ability to chew. And I was like, I chew okay. I don't need it. I don't need it. But Ben, my friend, the dope who's just gotten me through this thing says, no, I need it. And we're going to figure it out. And I don't know if you guys ever have issues with dentistry or any of you have had implants that didn't take or where you put in a bunch of work and then it doesn't pay off, isn't that so frustrating? But we have to be in acceptance. I am in acceptance of the fact that sometimes things just don't go my way. But it's going to be okay. It's just the way things happen because I am so sober and so deeply spiritual. We have kind of big news. It's not really big news, but I want to push it out there, which is we have a new shirt coming out. There's a lot of things happening. What's happening first is we have a new shirt coming out. It's the dopey iron made in shirt.

5:04And it's only available for September. It's super high quality. The shirt is super high quality. The design is classic. It is the only merch available in September. Go to dopeypodcast.com. Buy the shirt. And then after September, you can never buy it again. I'm going to get one of these shirts. This summer all I wore were Nick shirts and Katz's shirts. But I'm going to get a dopey iron made in shirt. And you should too at dopeypodcast.com. You go to the store. Fucking hell, man. dopeycon is coming up October 3rd. We will be there. You should come. It's going to be at the SVA Theater on 23rd Street. A ton of cool people are going to be there. It's about to sell out. If you want to go to dopeycon, just go buy a ticket. The link will be in the thing. The link will be in the thing. All right, I'm going to read this note. Oh, it's a quick note. It's from miles from California. He came to our Zoom. He wrote, hey, Dave. Hey, Eric, really enjoyed the dopey Zoom this morning.

6:05I am absolutely adding it to my calendar as a regular thing. It was cool to see so many people whose names I recognize from the show. It was awesome. Cheers, miles from California. So if you want to join Patreon, you're welcome to come to our Wednesday morning Zoom. Also, if you join Patreon, you can save 15 bucks on dopey con tickets. And dopeycon is wall to wall with famous and not famous dopes plus dinner from cats is plus very delicious desserts, which I actually have to remember to order. Or I'm going to read this email, too. This is from that period we had where we were talking about getting our pets high. And some people really didn't like that. But this is the last one. And unless you got your pet high, in which case, please send in an email or a voicemail to dopeypodcast.gmail.com. We need that fresh dopey. You'll get free socks if you send it in. All right. This says, hello from a fan in jurors.

7:06This story happened to me in Northern California in 2014. I had been invited by a buddy to visit a remote part of the California Redwoods where they have hot springs. Aren't hot springs the greatest. I was excited and wanted to be respectful of my friend who didn't smoke weed as I was their guest. So I brought edible espresso beans coated in cannabis chocolate, right? Excuse me. Smart, right? He said, well, after a long car ride, we arrive at the cabin and stretch our legs, throw our bags inside and head to town for a meeting. I wasn't sober or clean at the time, but he was, and I was tagging along, which men, of course, in the short 90 minutes or so, we were gone. The cabin owners' dog. Oh, no. Who lived at the cabin and I had never met before. Had plenty of time to lock on like a heat seeking missile to you guessed it.

8:08It was like the dog was on a mission to devour the three worst things you could feed a dog. Weed, chocolate, and espresso beans. I just feel bad for the people who hate these stories. I'm laughing more at them than the story, and it might be you. It had chewed through the metal tin, almost like a tin, you'd find dip or those zin things in, and eaten the contents entirely. I got back and almost died from the shock realization. I was too scared to tell my buddy, so I spent all night with the dog watching it have several religious experiences or so it seemed. As I made sure it was drinking water and breathing, I cleaned up all its messes because it was in the upside-down dimension from what I could tell. Poor dog. When the sun came up, I was sure the dog was coming down, fine, not going to die, and was relieved and secure enough to confess to my buddy, and I was secure enough to confess

9:11to my buddy. He laughed and said I should have told him. He then proceeded to tell me his dog would often get into just about anything he shouldn't, so he had an act for surviving these kinds of ordeals, even saying ones that the dog ate rat poison. I guess some pooches just like eating things they shouldn't, but that was a terrifying night that I was certain could have been very bad for me and my buddy's pet. I think in the end, the animal probably would have raided the edible's nine out of 10 from how chill the rest of the weekend went. Have a good one, keep up the good work on the podcast, Scotty in Jersey. I love that. I really love that. Email, thank you Scotty. If anybody needs Narcan or Fentanyl test strips, write us a dopey podcast at gmail.com and we'll send you some for free. Also, Scotty in jurors gets free dopey socks, high quality dopey socks. We're also about to have a new design that Bridamade,

10:12it's really fresh, so I'm excited for that. We're gonna have new beanies, that dopey con. It's gonna be some new cool shit at dopey con and we'll have it for sale eventually. But this month, we only have the iron maiden shirt. Maybe a long sleeve, maybe, I don't know, I don't know. If you want a long sleeve, just let me know. And we need emails and we need voicemails very, very badly. Also, we have a bunch of t-shirts from past events that we're selling for 20 bucks, including shipping. So just email us at dopeypodcast.gmail.com and we'll send you the list of what we have. Eric Poppissmurf is quite industrious with the old merch shit. This episode of dopey is brought to you by Mountainside. Mountainside is the spot where me and Chris met, which means a lot to me. We both spent a ton of time there and it mean a ton. It's an amazing place. The coaching, the program, the mind, body, spirit approach, the full continuum of care.

11:12But Mountainside is way more than just a residential program. They built a program around you. So many people who came through Mountainside have stayed connected to the place, including me to each other and to the whole community. They sponsored the film festival. They're sponsoring dopeycon and they have been a part of this journey since it all began. They've got so many great programs now for families, telehealth, at-home detox. Their at-home detox is guided by a medical provider, a nurse, recovery coach, therapist, people to actually talk to. And if cratum withdrawal is an issue for you, at-home detox make sure you do not have to do it alone. They also specialize in helping kids with gaming, online overuse, vaping, and figuring out what they're really avoiding. Mountainside adjusts and determines the best length of stay for your needs. If you need more time, there's extended care or PHP. They offer other clinically appropriate options

12:14like virtual programs if you don't have the time. So call mountainside at 888-833-4922. Go there for the amazing programs and the people. It's a great place to get your recovery legs under you. You guys hear the cops? The cops are coming from Emma, my dad's. This episode of dopey is also brought to you by Brayburn, a company committed to transforming the management of opioid use disorder. As we recognize recovery month each September, it's an important line to reflect on the realities many people face on their recovery journeys, especially during reentry when housing isn't secure. Work is uncertain and support can be hard to find. That's the focus of season two of reframe and reclaim, shaping the future of recovery stories. Brayburn's mini-document series rooted in lived experience. The series take viewers through Baltimore, spotlighting six community advocates who are helping people returning from incarceration

13:16to rebuild their lives and stay committed to their recovery journey when stability is anything but guaranteed. During recovery month and beyond, these are the stories that remind us of what recovery really looks like when rebuilding life on the outside. Watch now on youtube.com slash BrayburnRx or search reframe and reclaim. We love Brayburn. Brayburn fucking put me up last December in Philadelphia at a conference. They sponsor our film festival. We love what they do. Anief Perry is in reframe and reclaim. He was at our film festival. He's gonna be at DobieCon. All right, I'm gonna play a voicemail. It's from Lauren B from the beach. And she sent in this voicemail about bell ringers, which was something that Hunter Biden loved talking about. And here's a little note. Here's a voicemail from a few months ago when you interviewed Andy Dick. I was so inspired by your honesty

14:18and saying that you didn't know what bell ringers were. I knew what bell ringers were. I just didn't know whatever. I felt compelled to send a voicemail about it. Bell ringers and the drugs that make them happen were my reason to keep going for a little bit. Stay strong and keep doing what you both do. All jokes aside, I appreciate both of you. And that's me an associate producer, Eric Poppissmurf. Fucking tutels with gratitude, Lauren B from the beach. And I just wanna say, I know what a bell ringer is. Chris never shut up about that shit. But I never had one that was actually profound, which probably means I never had one. Anyway, here's Lauren B with her bell ringer voicemail. I have Dave Dope Nation. It's Lauren B from the beach. I was so greatly touched by Dave's, candid disclosure about bell ringers on Monday's total replay of episode 24

15:21when he was talking to Billy Barou that because neither one of them really had a good comprehension of what bell ringers were. I felt like I should send in another voicemail again. This really doesn't have a particular day that I was using that this occurred, but that was what I chased the entire time I was using. Heroin, Fenton Tommel was an necessity. I had to use it because if I didn't, I got sick. But by getting right, I could shoot crack and crystal meth. And like Chris, I on a daily basis, would break down crack with me, like the little squirt bottles that flew into your water. And you could always tell if it was good crack, if you got what we would call the walmos.

16:23It just essentially sounds like like the sound of Charlie Brown's teacher. But except instead of coming from outside, it was coming from this like internal pressure inside of your head. And I chased that fucking bell ringing while was sound into the fucking ground. It was never as good as it was the first time. It was always better when I shot crystal meth, which I didn't get to do nearly as much as I had wanted to. But in recovery, I came to find out that that noise, the bell ringing and the warm was, is really the sound of your brain trying not to have a stroke because your blood pressure goes from so low to so high, so quick. That like all this blood rushes to your veins.

17:24And fun fact, when you do crystal meth and you get these bell ringing and wall wise, the other thing that happens is like dragons breath. And that was probably like top five junky experiences. And again, because of like the facial constriction and like everything being like forced out of your body is a hard heart. Like hard, your heart is beating. You actually like exhale what looks like smoke. And they call it dragons breath. But really all it is is like the concentrated carbon dioxide that you're exhaling. So yeah. Now that I took a nice little stroll down you fork recall lane. Don't do drugs seriously if you're gonna do drugs. Test your shit. But we do recover, we do get better. And you can always reach out to me

18:25or Dave if you ever need me. Thank I love you all. Stay strong dopey nation. Fucking totals for Chris. All right, bell ringers and dragons breath. If you guys have any fucking dopey stories around, I'm sure there's, there's whole crack addictions built around bell ringers. I never heard of dragons breath either. It's like was I actually a drug addict? Sure half of you are like this kind of a fucking did drugs. I did though. I did do drugs. It's so weird. All right, I'm gonna read another voicemail. This one is from a dope who comes to our zooms also. His name is Zach. He says, hey Dave, with dopey day and all of this talk about Chris and everybody else we've lost happening right now. This was from around Chris's birthday. I've been thinking about what the month of August means in my life. I heard you talk about how this month and the summertime in general is really hard for you. And for a long time, it was very similar for me.

19:27August is kind of the worst month of the year for me. My birthday is the sixth. My youngest brother was long boarding and got hit and killed by a drunk driver in 2012. I'm sorry. His birthday was the seventh. My mother died on the ninth and my grandpa's birthday was the 10th. The last two years before I got clean again, were really rough both years for me. The one year I tried to kill myself. I tried to kill myself. I spent every dollar I had on pills of fentanyl and smoked them all day. And the last one I had snorted. I pretty much immediately fell out. I woke up face down on the floor. I don't know how many hours later in the dark and I was completely deaf for the rest of the night after that. Then my last birthday before I got clean, I spent in jail. This year, it was almost like any other day. I went to work. I watched a movie. I went to bed pretty early and did it all over the next day.

20:30And although I didn't have any kind of celebration or whatever, the fact that I wasn't overcome with depression or grief or dread about living another day and that I didn't have to get high or deal with my life is just nothing less than a fucking miracle. So really being able to go to work and pay my own bills and go home to my own apartment at the end of the day and just be alive is a celebration for me and of itself. I'm like getting emotional here at Zach. We'll always miss all of the people we've lost along the way, but we have to live our lives to the fullest extent. We can now for them and because they no longer have the chance to stay strong, dopination, and fucking tutels for everyone from Zach F. Yeah, I'm like getting all worked up. I feel like I'm going to cry. Love Zach. Zach manages a Chipotle in North Dakota. So if you're anywhere in North Dakota, send in an email or a voicemail and Zach will hook you up with the hot honey chicken. I think the hot honey chicken is too spicy.

21:30Zach believes in it. I think he has some stored away if you show up at his Chipotle. All right, this episode of Dopey is also brought to you by the amazing people at Long Island Center for Recovery, also known as LICR. Let's be honest, most rehab ads sound like a resort brochure, soft piano, drone shots of the beach, somebody in linen pants telling you recovery is a journey. That is not LICR. Family owned and operated since 1995. The Long Island Center for Recovery is a holistic addiction treatment center out on the east end of Long Island. And after 30 years, they've genuinely seen it all. No wellness influencer, no stock photo version of recovery, no sales pitch, just real grass roots, 12-step recovery, medically supervised detox, inpatient rehab and genuine love and care. Built by us, operated by us, helping people just like you.

22:33Go to Long Island Center for Recovery on Google and check them out. They took Infantonal J, they took Intrinity, I love LICR. So many people where we live go there and say amazing things. And I was there and it's super, super cool. And it could be like Resorty, but that's not their thing. They're super salt of the earth, wonderful folks at LICR. All right, we got a shit ton of comments about Hunter Biden. So I'm gonna read the Patreon ones now, and we'll read the Spotify ones after we play the interview and the interview is with this lovely young lady named Leah Hart-Renching story. I call her Lea the Hippie Girl. Okay, here are the Patreon comments. I'm gonna read the Spotify comments after Leah, if you want stickers, leave comments on Patreon or Spotify, you join Patreon at www.patreon.com, slash dopey podcast. There's a lot of good stuff on Patreon. Just to ask anybody who's a patron, they love Patreon. All right, Minnesota Matt says,

23:34love, love, love Hunter Biden. Grateful to have him on our alcoholic and drug addicted team. Awesome interview Dave. Viva, beba, la dopey. Thank you, Minnesota Matt. Betty Ford James says, Craternum, no, but I did toad Venom. Fuck yeah, Hunter, Biden, rocks, and Dave, you are raising the bar very high on your interviews. Thank you. I especially appreciate Hunter's quick response about the program and how it's all basically lifted from ancient spiritual practices that draw on the importance of service. Very nice. Gorg Neiss says, great interview. He really came alive talking about bicycles. Ha ha, he did. Chucho Cabra says, where is bicycles at? I can fix her. Seriously though, Hunter Biden just recounted his first bell ringer on the fucking dopey show. What an awesome episode and amazing guest. Top five for sure. You knocked it out of the park on this one, Dave.

24:35Thank you, Chucho Cabra. Tori Gagney says, can I just say that I loved one Hunter said just because he sober now, doesn't erase his daughter's trauma from his using days. That really made my heart happy. And Hunter Biden, what a score, awesome episode, and thanks for playing my voice message. I'm feeling like a part of this community and dopey truly is a game changer. That's very nice story. I appreciate that a lot. We, and you weren't at the fucking Zoom this week though. Hannah Valisex says, Hunter Biden, hell yeah Dave, great interview. Thank you. Meg says, great interview with Hunter. Best I've heard, I was both riveted and annoyed by his book. I really liked it, which seemed to render his first wife and daughter's pretty invisible. I appreciated him repeatedly acknowledging the toll on his family and how they, unlike him, don't have the redemption arc to resolve all of their pain and how his current wife wasn't a miracle,

25:37but rather only possible because of the years of love from his family. That's very important insight. It was a very powerful moment. And now here's another powerful moment to say that this episode of dopey is also sponsored by the great folk at work at health. Work at health offers real medical care. No rehab required machine, which means machines, which means you can get sober at home, full telehealth addiction treatment, just on your phone, real doctors, real counselors, support groups, all on the phone. Evidence based treatment, FDA approved meds like Suboxone and Naltrexone for alcohol, opioids, and creatam 708. Not a wellness app. This isn't drink water and meditate. It's legit clinical care. Harm reduction, no bullshit, meet you where you're at approach. No need to be perfect. You just start. Medical assisted treatment framed right?

26:37This is real medical treatment, back by science, not replacing one addiction with another. Fast access to care, 95% of members start treatment within two days. The care team includes folks with lived recovery experience, go to workathealth.com, slash dopey or hit the link in the show notes. Thank you, work at health. They'll be at dopey cons. So if you're there, you got to say, what's up to Max and the crew. Back to Patreon, Comments, Kyle Rudusky says, what a great episode. Love the story at the end with the guy having five days off crack and alcohol. Yeah, that was crazy. Did you give away next week's guest at the end? No, we didn't. Heather P says, what a genuine sweet dude. Great interview, Dave, really good show. Thank you. Thank you, Heather P. Tori Gagney says, bicycles, I wish I had her when I was using. I had Tony Bologna. J.M. Dubb says, amazing.

27:37Cheeky's Delgado says, incredible interview. Hunter is so transparent and is obviously a good, solid person. Dave, your interview skills are top notch. Thank you, Cheeky's. I thought he was great. I really do. Chris Strickler says, hunter Biden, how fucking cool is that? This episode is another great example of how the media twists and controls are perception of people because of media coverage on this man. I had a view in my head of him that honestly, I am sick and to think I allowed myself to feel like this about somebody, especially somebody in recovery. His story and his view of things was right on man and his girl bicycles. She's amazing. He died when he said, she said, as long as she didn't get any blowback from his dad, that was awesome. This interview in my opinion was one of the best ones we've ever had on here. I hope he comes back. I hope he gets to come to events. I think he could do a lot in the recovery world. Great interview, great episode.

28:38Thank you, Chris. I feel like you haven't been in the Zoom either. Amber Lynn says, such a great episode. You were amazing, Dave. Thank you. I have to admit, I don't exactly. I didn't exactly know what to expect with Hunter, but he was the best. All of his gratitude, how he recognizes the trauma of his loved ones and finding the beauty in the worst. Excellent. I agree. Josh says the owl part, oh my God. So on my longest period of being awake, like anywhere from 10 to 19 days, who really knows what it was like in the final day as I was coming down. I sat in my second story townhouse window out the window and listed listed, listened, not listed and listened to all of these owls making sounds for who knows how long, but it was like they were speaking to me and telling me almost that you're almost dead. Is this what you want and are you ready? This is deep. It wasn't actual words, but I felt this deep down in my soul.

29:39These owls were going absolutely nuts, like way more than they ever had. I heard them a lot over those 19 days, but that day it was also peaked. I'll never forget that experience and how it felt. This really opened my eyes to who this dude was really crazy. Thank you for this one. I would have never listened to this story otherwise truly. Thanks Josh. Yeah, he really shocked me too. He shocked me. He pleasantly surprised me. Mysterious AJ says, ah, the running partners, bicycles, bravo, hunter Biden, bravo hunter Biden for your bravery, honesty and transparency. I am a family member of a famous politician. It's Abraham Lincoln's great, great, great granddaughter. And I've always kept the secret. Love that he came on doby me too. Minnesota Matt, really liked your question about what that was like for hunter when secret service showed up during the crack binge. My paranoia always told me the cops were coming, but they rarely showed.

30:42Nicole says this was so good, Dave Hunter was real with his story. Given who his dad was, I get worried he would keep it PG. I'm so glad I was wrong. Awesome job. Good. Get. Thanks Nicole. Justin B says nice work, Davey. I love him. Very raw and seems honest. Doug is probably pissed. You platformed Hunter. He's pissed about something. Everyone is welcome here. By the way, I was at a baseball game today in Worcester and safe spot had a couple tables and an ad on the outfield. Pretty cool. California Josh says I started to love Hunter when I heard the similarities and what we've done while listening to Fleet Foxes. Then I loved him more when I heard on channel five that he got sober and now he's on fucking doby. Yo, so Gejones says amazing. Tools says amazing achievement to get Hunter Biden as a guest. Keith Richards next please and I can't believe you're interviewing Jeff Garland amazing

31:42work. Bravo. Thank you. Jules. Katzine Diane says great interview Dave. Thank you. Love and support to Hunter Biden. Those are the Patreon comments. If they are excessive, sorry, if you're a patron, leave a comment because it's always fun to hear your opinion. And I just need to say that this episode of Dopey is also brought to you by the great folks at recovery unplugged recovery unplugged combines music with evidence based care to treat addiction and mental health where music creates deeper connections during recovery with spots in Florida, Texas, Virginia, Tennessee, South Carolina and New Jersey. Their experience and well established. They embrace both traditional treatment and alternative practices. Their long term recovery rates are 15% than the national average. They accept insurance. They offer in person and online options and they're available 24 seven. You do not have to be a musician to benefit from music at recovery unplugged.

32:45They're teaming up with legendary manager Doc McGee on elsewhere, a new program supporting the health of touring musicians and crews. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, depression, anxiety or trauma, visit recovery unplugged.com and here is me and Leah the hippie girl. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're making Dopey con as though it was like the price is right. And everybody that comes is going to get a big name tag and the name tag is going to be like a weed bag or a heroin bag or a bomb with big, you know, sharpy letters. And you don't know if you're going to be in the game or not. Oh, that's awesome. I love that. I think that'll be really fun for everyone. And a lot. Thank you. And a lot of people are going to come wearing costumes like Dopey adjacent costumes.

33:45Okay. Like there's one woman who's going to come dressed as Amy Winehouse. And I bet there's going to be a lot of big birds and you should come and wear a costume. Okay. When is it going to be? October 3rd. Why? What are you doing? Fish is playing in a Atlantic city. You got to change a date. No, it's too late. We booked a theater. Okay. Maybe I can still come during the day. How? No, no, no. Oh, it's nighttime. It's nighttime. How many days are they playing in Atlantic City? Three. So aren't you going to all of them? I was playing. I lived there. So just coming, just coming to Dopey con for the Saturday. Okay. Maybe I will. You know, I don't want to miss it. What Dopey Con or Fish in Atlantic City? Dopey Con. Listen, you get fish on Friday and Sunday and Dopey Con on Saturday. Yeah. I think Dwayne Betts is going to come play. Wow. Do you know that dog's in a pile band? Yeah. I think that dude's going to come play too. Oh, cool. Do you like them or no? Yeah. Well, when they started, they were like a dead cover band. And I've seen them. But now I guess they make their own music. I don't know. I haven't seen them in years. They make their own music. But I found it strange to not be a dead cover band and be called dogs in a pile.

34:47Yeah. It is. Yeah. And because of you, I think it's because of you. I think August is now Fish Month on Dopey. So congratulations. Because you had the box, the box of our guy, me. Yes. So far that's it. But I, there's other fish people I can plug in. I can do this on the fly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I made July Almond Brothers Month because I had the guy who wrote a book about the Almond Brothers. And then I was like, I had a bunch of other shits. I started plugging it in. Okay. But I want to introduce you. Her name is Leah Martin. She is a farmer and a drug addict and a fish fan. I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah. Some sort of hippie weirdo. Yeah. And I met Leah. Actually I met Leah at Mountainside. Yeah. But not when either of us were there. I was going to record a podcast and Leah was leaving from recording a podcast. And then there's another hippie drug addict called Felix Heads, who we love.

35:50And he was like, you should, this girl's got crazy stories. But then also, there was a man named Brian Edelman who's not Jewish, even though his name sounds very Jewish. And he had a very great Instagram page, like a, a, a, a, a, he kind of meme page called, Shake Down Scree, which Lee explained to me was a hood version of Street. Scree. And he died and Felix had knew I had some kind of connection to Meta to get our page back and we wanted to figure out how to turn Brian's page into a memorial page. Yeah, because they just deleted his account like two months ago. Because it was an hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they don't delete all accounts that are inactive. So it's, you know what I'm saying? Like I see other people's accounts like that have died that are still up. So you think it's suspect that they would delete. No, I don't think it's suspect. I think it's just like random. It's annoying and it's annoying and it's not.

36:52So I have all of the memes that Brian made. It's so it sounds silly because it's memes. But at the time that Brian made his meme page, all that shit was like kind of new. And he accrued like 50,000 followers for a very niche thing, which was like just this weird, grateful, dead, related kind of humor. We'll sort of humor, but like it was very specific to him. Like other people don't have the same, you know, there's lots of meme pages now that are like that, but like not this, not through the same voice as Brian. Shake down, Screed had a very, very definitive style and when, and when he hit something, I remember I shared a bunch of his stuff. Yeah. And I would be like, he was smart and nerdy and, and also junky style. Yes. So it caught me. Yeah. And I didn't know he had died and I'm sorry that he died and, and maybe you can give me some of his memes. And maybe I can, I can share him and then we can, we can give him credit. Totally. And we can try to fucking figure out how to make the memorial page.

37:55Yeah. That would be awesome. Is it like I have all the memes saved, but I know other people liked to like go to his page and like, I don't know, just like laugh or like remember him that way. So that's why it sucks that they took it down, you know, I'm for yeah. There should, I mean, Chris has a memorial page on Facebook, Todd, my friend Todd, who died as a memorial page on Facebook, Brian's meme page should become a memorial page. Yeah. And I don't think anybody who's listening has any kind of juice with meta. But if anybody who's listening has any juice with meta, write me a dopey podcast at gmail.com, but I'm going to circumvent this process and start the process with meta again for you. Okay. Because they had sent me that thing and I sent it to you and they're scary. Met a super scary. Because it's like, if you're, I'm addicted to Instagram, you know, and if I, if I lost it again, I'd be so upset. Yeah. So they took the dopey page down. They took the dopey Instagram page down. They took the dopey faith. They took, I think they took the Instagram page down twice.

38:58First time was because we used the meme with like homework, cutting lines or something. Okay. And they said that we're selling coke. It's crazy because it's robots running running the, running meta. Right. You know, robots are the cops of meta. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they can't tell satire from whatever. Exactly. And what was I going to say? I was going to say, you know, that's, that's the preamble to why you're here. But you're also here. Because you listened to dopey also did. Yeah. Did Brian listen to dopey ever? Just say he did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did. He didn't listen to it. He didn't. I listened to it. I don't think he listened to it. Um, yeah, I don't think he did. And, and, and he was a drug addict and a dead head. So he would have might, he might have enjoyed it. He, yes, he, he would have. If he was alive today, he definitely would have. Well, that's very sweet of you to say. And you, you encountered dopey from being a drug addict looking for podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. And when I, you're from, I'm from North Jersey.

40:01When did you start doing drugs? Uh, I guess like when I was a teenager, like smoking weed and stuff, you know, in high school, um, and drinking. What was your family like growing up? Uh, so my family, I was just with my family. It was my mom's birthday on Saturday. Nice. My family is so neurotic. Um, really loving, though, like I grew up, uh, in, in, like a, in a very loving environment. My dad is a retired police officer. Um, and so that kind of like set the tone for like, um, I think just like I grew up with like a, a lot of pressure to like not do illegal things, which like really enticed me into like just doing stuff like that, you know, you have brothers and sisters. I have a brother. Yeah. Older younger. He's a year older than me. When was he like a weirdo hippie guy? No. No. Well, normal, respectfully and your folks.

41:01Where did the weirdo hippie thing come from? I don't even know, like my family isn't, isn't in that way at all, you know, they're not, they're not like music people really. Um, but so when do you trace back? Oh, yeah. When like when was I interested in that? When were you interested in like hippie shit, drug shit, music, any of it? I've always loved music and when I was in high school, I got into the Beatles. I would say that was like the first. I was like so into the Beatles, like listening to all their albums and then... How do you think you got into the Beatles? Because I just started training. I started paying some trainer to tell me to lift weights and stuff. And he plays like horrible music. He plays like... I mean, it's not really horrible music. It's just music I never listened to. Like, school and dream theater and like a lot of West Coast gangster hip hop and stuff.

42:03Which that's the best of it. But I was in there and I was making fun of... It was a tool. I didn't really notice. I thought it was like incubators. I don't know that kind of music. But then I was like, I was going to say you should play the Beatles today. And he's like, I'm really not feeling the Beatles. And I was thinking because like this is the room I grew up in. Like this was one. Things your bedroom. This was my bedroom as a little kid. And the first record I bought was the Beatles 20 greatest hits. But I don't know what made me buy it. To that. Yeah. What got you into the Beatles when you were little? It's my... I have a funny tool story too. But... I'll tell the tool story. People I've broke. People in the dope, you nation love tools. Oh, I'm sure. A lot of people love tools. I don't like tool at all. But when I was in my early 20s and like had gotten into psychedelics and stuff, some of my friends were going to see tool in Camden. They had an extra ticket. So they invited me. So I drove down by myself from North Jersey at the time, like no smartphones. I was using like a Garmin GPS.

43:05And I took acid when we got to the show. Like when it was starting. And in my... Because I had been seeing a bunch of like dead shows. I was on further tour. I was seeing a bunch of shows that like are like four hours long. So you can trip. But this tool show like was over in like 45 minutes. But I dozed like once we got into the venue and then started peaking as the show was basically ending. And then I had to drive back home like by myself and I got lost and was like looping like through Camden for like a really long time. And then I did get home. But yeah, and I was like, wow, tool sucks. How was the show? I don't know. I didn't like it. I didn't like, I don't remember it being like, it doesn't resonate with me. It's not my type of music, I guess, whatever. I wonder what it would have been like had you taken the acid like 40 minutes earlier. Yeah. It was just intense. I remember it feeling like crowded. The visuals, you know, like the tool style, the Alex Gray stuff.

44:08I don't even like that kind of artwork. Well, it's like I think it appeals to a certain kind of person who experienced a certain kind of pain and trauma. I'm serious. I think so when they were little and they see that stuff and they're like, it makes them feel okay. Like the trainer guy, he was like, I resonate with rage. Rage is the thing. I was always angry. His dad left his mom and like the anger made him feel okay. Whereas he was like the Beatles seemed like full of shit and like, and like they're just having a good time. I didn't even, like the weird thing about this guy is he's a musician. Okay. And I was like, you got to go back. You got to try again. Yeah. You know, he's an adult now. I was like, you got to try it. But I was trying to figure out what was it about because the Beatles were my first band and I fell in love with them. And first thing I have was that 20 greatest hits. And then one of my best friends, mother was a total hippie and she made like a tape that had revolver, rubber, soul and Abbey Road.

45:09It was one 90 minute cassette tape. We would just listen to that. And then I got into like the mythology of the Beatles. But what do you think got you into the Beatles? Just if you imagine yourself as a kid, what do you think of it? Yeah. I kind of can remember. So one of my best friends from growing up, she's a musician. She's always husband. She has perfect pitch. Our job since we were like in middle school was playing the organ at churches. And she got into the Beatles. And I think she put me on. Was she good? Oh, yeah. She's amazing. She can sing anything like, yeah, she's incredible. And she married a guy who's really into fish. So now she comes to fish occasionally because she's not like into, you know, she never really got into the grateful dead. But yeah, when we were like 14, I remember she had like the whole box set like all the Beatles, like all the Beatles albums. And what was the first drug you did or did you drink first? I drank first. I mean, I remember being in fifth grade at like a family party in my best friend and I going to drink like puckers from the alcohol table.

46:12What's puckers? It's like this lime green like liquor. I get some like shitty ass like liquor. That's sour and bright green. Here, can you see this green? Yeah, I can. I would lean back a little. Oh, okay. And you're going to be like, I'm too front in this. Like this. Yeah, I think that's good. Okay. Sorry, but things just popped up. You know what I'm going to do? The other thing people complain about all the time is that I don't put my phone on do not disturb. And then it rings in the middle and they're like, dude, they're like, you would have a really good podcast if you didn't let your phone rain. So okay, puckers at the fifth grade. And then I also remember, I have like a really like really good memory for like for some reason. But yeah, I do remember also being in like middle school and going to this girl's house and her mom had vodka in the freezer. And I thought we were talking about how interesting it was that like alcohol doesn't freeze.

47:13And we were drinking like that's, you know, probably in like seventh grade. It is very interesting that alcohol doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. You get vodka at like, is there any freezing point of vodka? I'm sure there is. I mean, you know, beer and stuff freezes and can explode. But I think above a certain alcohol percentage, it doesn't freeze. I think dopey nation. If you know the temperature that you can freeze vodka, please write us a dopey podcast at gmail.com. When you drank, are you a proper alcoholic? Like did you? I'm like a crack head junkie, but alcoholic to like us. Yeah. You had all the bases covered. I never thought I was an alcoholic until I like got some time to like reflect back. Because I was I was clean for four years and then I relapsed. And the beginning of the relaps was booze. And that kind of showed me because I like, I don't know. If you do hard drugs, it's sort of easy to compartmentalize and be like, well, like

48:17weed isn't a thing. And alcohol is like very social and it's over here. I don't lump that in. But I got clarity, I think, on like the like my compulsive behaviors around sort of any substance, it doesn't necessarily have to be, I don't know. It's more about, I guess it's more about me and like the way that I relate to changing my mental state. I wanted to have it not just be heroin that I could do other stuff and be chill with it, but I just didn't happen. So tell us about the beginnings of your of your using drugs. Yeah. So I guess like and then really focus on talking right into that micro. I'll lose my, I'll lose my, okay, like this. Well, I don't want to lose your face to it. So like this. Like this. Yeah. Oh wait, maybe if I go like that, that's better, right? Yeah, but do you feel very uncomfortable? It's like this, right? I think no, make yourself comfortable. I just want to hear you. Okay, okay. That's good. That's perfect. Okay. Yeah, I guess when I was in high school is when I started smoking weed, I became like obsessed

49:20with smoking weed. And I was also really, really interested in like hippie culture and like hippie stuff. So there were like documentaries on like the history channel or like A&E that were like counter culture. Me too. And I was so into that and I was fixated on it and just thinking it was like this, a time pass. And then I would get books about like 1960s counter culture at the library. Like I was really interested. Me too. So and the Beatles brought me into it, I think. Yeah, me too. And you hear those stories about, because like when they took drugs, everything changed. Right. I mean, basically the whole world changed at the same time. I was totally into that too, but I didn't take drugs yet. So when's the first time you smoke weed? Oh my God. I think the first time I smoked weed was after a 311 concert at PNC, which is like a venue in New Jersey.

50:21And they used to play at PNC like every summer. And I remember smoking weed the first time I got high. I think I had tried to smoke weed a few times before that and didn't really feel the effects. But after the show, I was staying at my friend's house and we smoked. And I remember closing my eyes and everything was like orange and like sun. It felt like everything felt sunset, sunsetty. Sunsetty. Yeah. And and were you like, I love this and this is it. Yeah, I was obsessed with weed. And like I, yeah, my friends and I, my girlfriends and I used to smoke weed all the time. And I would like be so scared that I was going to get in trouble at home. My one friend had a pool. So in the summer, I would always like dunk my head in her pool before I went home. So that if my eyes were red, I could just say that we were swimming and that it was from the chlorine. Because I was under a microscope by my parents like from, from that time, you know. They knew that I was, I think they saw that I was so interested in hippie stuff and like,

51:26I don't know, I guess they could just like see what was happening and weed was like, it wasn't legal. Obviously, at the time, and like I said, my dad's a retired police officer. It was just like not acceptable. You know, there was like never any conversations about like sex or drugs between my parents and I. It was just like, if you do that, like, you're bad. And that's bad. How old were you the first time, like 15? That I smoked weed? Yeah, probably. So it's like, if I have a 16 year old, I wouldn't want to know about her smoking weed. Okay. I think I would want to know about that. But I mean, at the same, I mean, I smoked weed for the first time when I was 17. So I would imagine why your parents would put you under the microscope. But I also think it's funny that you smoked weed and then you stuck your head in the pool. When you could just say you and swimming anyway, because I guess you just smelled like chlorine in that. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'll be wet. Right. But that's a good example of me, a sort of like as my drug use progressed, like I would

52:27do like weird shit like that. And because I was lying to everyone, like once I got into harder stuff, I was always like weaving webs of lies to like so people would not know what was going on. I think it's so irritating how the path to drug addiction is so linear. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. Like it's almost hard to get into. I mean, there are people who are like hippie style people who can get into smoking weed and be like, I'm not doing anything else. And they don't or maybe they trip a little bit or whatever. But our store, like we have a pretty similar trajectory. And it's basically the trajectory of all of our heroes went on. And like we're like, well, they're millionaires who couldn't handle drugs. But we're idiots from New York and New Jersey and we can handle it for some reason. So like tell me about the ramping up and like, so as you become crazy hard core stoner, that be growing high school. And I'm sure they see it. Yeah.

53:28Yeah. And even like my high school, they started this thing when I was like a junior in high school of like offering to drug test people's kids at school. And my parents enrolled me into that. What do they call that? I forget. I don't remember. But that's ridiculous. But it's like shit like that. That also like, imagine that. Like your kid is starting to smoke weed and like you're all of this like crazy, like monitoring, you know, like next level. Like what do you mean you're offering to piss test kids at school? Like it's such an invasion. You know what I'm saying? Like it's also like turning your kids into criminals. Exactly. Who have to get by your end? Exactly. Right? Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And it's funny because like I have a good relationship with my family. Like my mom will, I don't know if she like explicitly like she won't like name things, but I think she does recognize that like some of that crazy pressure like contributed.

54:31I know you always joke about your dad making you into like an addict or whatever. But and it's not, you know, I don't know what's what but like I'm sure your parents fall. Yeah. Let's just say it right now. It's just get it out of the way. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, there are these criteria that happen and then we wind up becoming addicts. This is my point where I've landed with with my own, I love blaming my dad and my mom, my mother's dad so I don't blame her as much. And if she was alive, she would be so fucking pissed about the show. No, about me blaming. Oh, she would be so fucking angry. But I've reduced my father's blame to like roughly, I'm going to say 17%. Okay. That sounds fair. And we're in like, so did they test you in high school? Yeah. And you failed. Yeah. And what happened? Well, I didn't fail at school because I did like some slick shit and like had always some like weird pee bottle. Tell me the first time and like how where do you get the first year and take us through

55:33this whole thing? Because you're like a normal kid. Right. You're smoking weed. Is it like days didn't confuse and someone's like, yeah, man, they're going to fucking test our pee. Yeah. And you the pee like how did they're like here? Leah, you need to hear some primo pee. So I must have gotten it. I want to say because my friend who I was saying put me onto the Beatles, she was always like a straight A student, very good, like gifted and talented. Nurtie. Nurtie. I may have gotten it from her. I don't, I don't remember. But I would think that I would have had to ask somebody outside of my like, stoner group for the pee. So really fucked up thing about it is like you were a kid and like you were taught immediately how to circumvent this thing or the first test you were ready to cheat and pass it. Yes. And the thing about that program was that it was random. You didn't know. So they could like I think I only got called in to be tested once. But you're like the whole year, you're just like at any point they could just randomly

56:34say, okay, you come for drug tests now. Did you always have your friends pee on you? I don't remember. I thought you had a great memory. Yeah, I don't, I do, I do, yeah, I don't remember that. But I also got drug tested at home by my parents. Because they knew those tests I would fail. When was the first time they found out you smoked? I mean, probably like almost immediately. I feel like just like my vibe was probably giving it away, you know, they never like, I don't remember them. Maybe my mom found a bowl or something. I don't remember them like taking weed away from me, but and I was smoking cigarettes too. Maybe that was like, I don't know, they were just like, she's bad as well. She's bad, yeah, she's bad girl. She's bad. But and it's like when you look back, because it's like blaming your parents for addiction and stuff, it's pretty counterproductive, but it's also pretty fine. So it's like chicken in the egg also.

57:35Yes. If you didn't do it, they wouldn't act that way, but would you keep acting the way you did if they weren't up your butt about it? Right. I don't think so. I don't know, you know? I don't think so because I think like some of the compulsions around drugs that I developed were like with these sneaky behaviors. And I mean, there's no way to ever know. But like when you train someone that something has to be secretive and like that they're bad, it kind of like metastasizes. And I do think that that's, I don't know, I do think that's a factor. I know that with me, my parents were really controlling. Like my mother was really controlling. And I mean, I didn't smoke weed in high school, but when I would come home from after school, if I brought a friend, my friend would always say, I'm not going to talk when we get there because I know all the lies you're going to tell. And I don't want to fuck up your shit because my mom would like want to know how we came

58:39home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I started lying and I just didn't stop lying forever. Yeah. And it built up this whole thing. Right. You know, which, which sounds like it's a similar thing that, yeah, that sounds exactly like me. My mom always wanted to know every single detail about everything. And when I would come home, she would like get real close to me and look in my eyes and smell my breath sometimes. So yeah. So how long did you stay at home? Well, I left to go to college after high school. I went to Kutztown University in PA. I only went there for like a year. I failed out. And that's where I was. You're like, I just want to make this clear. I failed that as soon as I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't, I can't take the, yeah, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you went to college. No, not really. Like I went, I went there and I just was fine for the very first time out of my parents like microscope. And that's where I started to experiment with like other drugs, you know?

59:43That's where I did psychedelics for the first time. Immediately fell into like a crew of people that were super focused on partying and doing drugs and going to see music. And yeah. And when did fish come around for you? Shortly after that. So yeah, I, well, so before fish, I, I was really into the dead. So and I, and I would say actually I, I do love fish for a really long time. I wouldn't say I wouldn't put fish on my back like that. I don't know why. Um, because I don't like jam bands. I only like fish. You like the dead though? They're not, I don't consider them to be a jam band. Why not? Um, in like the, the, the, the dead is so much more than that. Like fish, I feel like it's a truce can truly be defined as a jam band. The king jam band maybe. I like the hip-kong. The grateful dead is so much more than a jam band. The progression of the different sounds through the years, the Americana element to it.

1:00:44Um, the like, yeah, the inspiration of Jerry starting out as like a bluegrass musician. I just feel like there's, there's a toe. The, the dead isn't a jam band in like the current like definition of what a jam band is. I feel like jam, I'm going to say the dead are a jam band because I, this is just my opinion. And like, because they were, they were long, they did long form jam. How about the Almond brothers, the Almond brothers, jam band? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess. You say you'll say the almonds are a jam band, but the dead are not. It's a loose interpretation. But you're saying the dead are too good to be called a jam band. I'm saying like they're just, when you bring up the Almond brothers, that kind of confused it. Yeah, yeah, because the Almond brothers were like making records with like one song on a whole side of the record. Right, right, right. So that's very jamming. Right, but also, okay. Yeah, but like, they're like jazz music can't be considered like that like in the category

1:01:45of jam band. Like jazz can be the same way where it's just like really long, like experimental. Yeah, but the dead and the Almond would say that they were very influenced by jazz. And wouldn't, I mean, like me personally, just to be clear, I'm not putting fish on my back. You don't like fish, right? I don't, I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't listen to fish. I can quote a little fish, brush your teeth and take me to Vilexa. I can, I can make fun of sat lists and different songs that might be included in fish. Yeah. I love how Tre plays a guitar. I've coveted Tre as a dopey guest for years. So my, so my closet, not putting fish on my back. I'm a little worried about that. I did protest at a fish show. I held up a sign that said stop the noodling and what's this face Tre socks? I think I held up a sign that's a Tre sock. Not Tre, fucking page. Okay, okay. I don't let page play or something.

1:02:46Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I didn't like his, I thought his piano playing was too, too monumental. It wasn't jammy. It wasn't like bluesy enough for me. But I was on heroin when I pro, it was in New Jersey. That's awesome. It was in New Jersey, actually, that I protested at a fish show. I love that. And I went to see fish one other time. But I want to like fish. I want to be included so bad. And I just, I'm not in there. Have you gone to see them like sober? No. I'm not going to go. No, I'm not. I feel like you might have a different experience. I saw Tre. I saw Tre at the beak. Do you remember? I mean, I don't want to waste your whole interview with my opinions about things. But basically, we had Billy Strings on the show. Yeah, I listened to it. It was fantastic. And we were, thank you. And on the way home, like I was like, this is great. We're going to get Tre. And then the phone rings. And it's the chairman of the board of the divided sky foundation. Oh. I'm back from New Jersey. And I'm like, the fucking call is coming in right now that we're getting Tre.

1:03:49And I answer the phone because everyone told me their whole campus that Tre was going to come on Dopey. OK. Then the phone rings and I answer the phone. And they said, Tre decided to do a different podcast. And I just, I was broken. And now, so now I have a lot. I've prayed for Tre a lot. I've prayed for the whole divided sky organization a lot. So I have a thing. I like that you put down your, you know, big fish person. You can't really big them up though. I enjoy that because you're such a dead person. Yeah, I've seen fish almost 200 times. Oh, good for you. And you still, and you still are a hater. Yes. Yes. Well, so it's a little bit, it's a little bit tongue in cheek. I don't even, or it's like a joke because when I started going on tour, the people that were following further, the scene was so gnarly. It was like really rough and tumble, you know what I mean? Like it was, I mean, I was born in 1990. I never saw the grateful dead, but it was like, it was like some like crazy fallout situation

1:04:52of that. Like just like junkies, like people openly doing drugs, it was grimy. And fish was more of like a happy go lucky type scene. Like a rich kid. Yes. Rich kid private school scene. Yeah. So that's always like the sort of the situation. And with the GDF, like these people that were on dead tour that were like, who's just a grateful dead family? That's what they would call themselves. And they were like, they were like, I made a meme about this that Brian posted, like kids from broken homes in the Midwest when they see the grateful dead thinking that it's a gang because that was kind of the vibe. And they would, they would hate on fish so much. So I joke about that because I kind of came up in that time. Although I wasn't necessarily like that type of person or whatever, I was around that. So there was always like this thing of like fuck fish, you know. I love the haters. The haters is strong in you. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

1:05:53Me too. Yeah. But I love fish. I do. Oh, maybe one day I love them too. I mean, I love my, my fish songs are goal, goal key apparatus. It's like that song. I love that song. I have a sucker for that stupid song waste. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Here and there, there's songs that I, and I love how Tre place. Like I tripped out a bunch of times and it's like, he shoots laser beams out of his guitar. Yeah, yeah. And I also know I can get a vibe off him that he's putting something really good into the world. Yes. And I like, and it makes me feel good. Yeah. So I'm with that. Yeah. So let's get to college. Yeah. So I'm starting to do psychedelics. What are you doing first? I think, I think even before I tried mushrooms, I tried acid. And I loved it. Yeah. Yeah, it was so fun. And I remember those times really fondly. And a handful of those people are also dead now. But it was like just such a special, it was just such a special time in that way.

1:06:55But I was supposed to be at college and I was supposed to be in class. And I was not interested in that really at all. I'm very happy you're here because it's like, we don't get enough of this. This specific like dirt baggery of being 18 cared for at school safe. All the drugs are right there. You have your little rooms to do drugs. And you're like, you're in training to be a total drug addict. Yes. And this was in, I graduated high school in 2008. So this is also the time of oxycontin. So first, I'm really interested in psychedelics. But I'm interested in anything really. Like I said, I'm finally outside of my parent's house. And I'm just doing pretty much, I'm just exploring, you know. And I talked about this on the mountainside podcast because I really like obviously like my addiction went to a very dark place.

1:07:56But in the beginning, I really was like having so much fun. I was so interested in like just trying different things and like seeing what happened with my brain. And yeah, I enjoyed that very much. What are the highlights before it got bad? Like what were your favorite drugs? And it's also very innocent. It is. Like to enjoy psychedelics and music and art and all those things. That's a great thing. It is. It is. Yeah. I like to eat the two with like addiction because like I do feel like there's something beautiful about like using substances like that. And I mean, now they're using them for like therapeutic stuff. But even if it's not in that setting, I still feel like there's like something beautiful there. And I'm glad that I did. But yeah, just those early times taking acid were so fun and so innocent. Can you think of any stories that you that are very compelling that you'd like to share

1:09:00in your early, I'm going to say this now. Right. If a story pops up in your head, that's like detailed and full of great dopiness, please please bust it out. Okay. Yeah, it's harder for me to remember this time period because it was such a long time ago. But I do remember something that another friend of mine who I assume is dead, but I don't know. He's been missing since 2021. But we were all on acid. It was me and my two female roommates and then like a couple of guys and it was like later on in the trip and it was raining. And we were outside probably just smoking 100 cigarettes and my friend said water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. And I just remember that. Yeah. I don't know. We thought it was profound. These are those moments, those beautiful young psychedelic moments. Yeah. And like, are you got, are you got selling drugs at that point?

1:10:00Usually, usually when there's a hippie on-clave at school, somebody sells drugs. Yeah. Oh, yeah. One of my friends who's also dead now, but he was like at the sort of heart of this group, he was selling drugs. And I mean, now he's dead. So it doesn't matter if I say that. When did you cross into like narcotics, like coke or oxys? Oh. I wasn't really doing coke at that time, but yeah, started doing like pills. Like someone would get vikin or I remember around that time for my birthday. This is funny. The Beatles friend, the gifted and talented. Like a nist. Yeah. Her brother got like some, I don't even, you never see these anyways. But they were like 20 milligram, like oxycodones or something. And she gave me four of them for my birthday. It's so funny because she was not like into drugs. She was like so outside of that. But that's how innocent it seemed, I guess, you know?

1:11:01And she gave me them for my birthday. And that was my first time doing like a good, strong opiate. And we thought that they were fives. So we each, I guess, did like a whole one having no tolerance to something like that. And we were like puking. But we felt so good and did she wind up becoming an addict too? No, no, she did not. She like she made it. Yeah, she made it. Yeah, Scott free somehow. And were you like, holy shit, I love how this makes me feel? Yeah, totally. And did you just get kicked out of school straight away? Like did you have a chance in school? No, I didn't have a chance. And what happened? You went home? Mm-hmm. Were your parents so pissed? Yeah, oh yeah. And that also kind of like, like when I said like in metastasizes, it's like every turn that I was doing like the wrong thing. Every wrong thing. Yeah, and just becoming this person, that's like a failure. You know what I mean? And becoming this person that just like doesn't know how to be in the world and is like constantly making the wrong decision.

1:12:01And then you believe you're the failure. Yeah. And you can't make the right decision. Yeah, exactly. This is what happens when you go home. So when I was in college, I met a guy. I'm from North Jersey. This guy is from Delaware County, PA, which I'm sure some people in the dopey nation are familiar with Delco. It's a very specific type of person. They have a really interesting accent. You know the Delco accent. No, why does this, can you do it? It's kind of like the South Jersey accent. I don't, they say water. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, water. Yeah, I don't want to embarrass myself, but it's a really funny accent. And the first time I heard him talk, I was like, where is he from? That's so interesting. That's such an exciting accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, literally, which is so funny because I think most people think of Delco as kind of like a ratchet place. It's a suburb of Philadelphia. I went to college with a kid from a potstown Pennsylvania and he said water like that.

1:13:02Wooder. And like he had like a mallet. He had like 36 black rose bootlegs or something. We were in a band together. He was the singer in the band, but it's rough, it's rough out there. You know, king of Prussia and all that stuff. So you start dating him? Yeah, so I start dating him and I guess he probably failed out too. So we both leave there, but we're still dating. And so we were in a long distance relationship. And then, yeah, once we left school, that's when like perc 30s, I think, really. I really came into play and every time I would go see him, we would be trying to get them. I started working at this restaurant in North Jersey and the girls that I was, we were all waitresses and they were, they were into them too. So that's when I like became addicted to opiates. Was it like straight, how long did it take before you were like, I know, I'm addicted to

1:14:03this. And did you know how dangerous it was when it started or did you feel like you could get away with it? Was that the metastasis metastasis? What's the word I'm looking for? Metastasized. Metastasization. What that you're talking about? Like you knew this was in the mail. I think I kept down playing it in my head and being like, because it wasn't heroin yet. It was always like, yeah, like I know that this is a problem, but when I want to stop doing it, I will. But it was so prevalent like pretty much right away that it wasn't long after that that I went to my first 12 step meeting because my, I was living with my parents and my mom knew like something was going on with me. I remember like around that time because I worked at that restaurant for maybe like a year and a half. I got my like, my W2's back and my mom being like, where the fuck is all this money that you made?

1:15:03And I didn't have like, I was living day to day because I was spending all my money on pills. So what would you tell her? I don't even know. Like I probably was just like, oh, you know, like go, I don't know. I don't know. She knew something was up, you know? But I think I was just chalking it up to like, oh, I go out and get drinks with friends or like, you know, there's like no answer. There's no answer for why you don't have like 40,000. $30,000. No, I was making so much money. I was living in one of these apartments and I, my rent was $300 and I'd have to get money from them for the rent and I was making more money than them. And they were like, where's the money going? And I, I don't even know what the hell I said. Yeah. It's not like I could say, oh, I spent it on bud. Right. I bought all this weed and I'm broke because that doesn't sound good either. Right. But I'm blowing it on heroin and you're blowing it on per 30s. So who pushes you to go to 12 step at that point?

1:16:04It must have been a conversation with my parents, with my mom probably of like, you know, I know something's going on with you and there's, you know, there's programs. She really wanted me to go to rehab. And I remember for like in that time, the last thing that I ever wanted to do was have to go to rehab because it meant that like it meant something to me. It meant that I really couldn't control it myself and I would try to do anything to avoid that. And I think maybe I knew that 12 step existed and went there just to like make it look like I was doing something about it. So you don't have to go to rehab. Because once you go to rehab, you kind of like get compromised on your lifestyle. Yeah. Like you can't be doing what you want with impunity. Yeah. And that's when all the weird thoughts start creeping in of how bad we actually are. Yeah, exactly. So do you get dependent like when do you realize you get addicted to the percussive?

1:17:10It was so quick. And I knew that I was. But at the same time, it was like any money that I had, I was spending it on them. And sometimes there would be days where I couldn't get anything. But I wasn't like sick vomiting sick. I just felt like mentally, you know, like fatigued and like mentally like miserable. But I knew that I could get money at my serving job the next day and that like I would feel better again. Who had the perks? I guess like all different people, you know? I don't. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody was taking it all. It was so common at that time that it wasn't like hard to find, you know? And that was the age of oxys, right? Yeah. So like what to what happens? So yeah. So I'm eventually.

1:18:10Okay. So I go to the 12 step meetings. But it's really easy for me to be like, I'm not at the point. So I was going to NA. I don't know. Should I say that? Whatever. I go to NA and there's barely any women there. There's like, you know, two women and nobody has any time. And they're all like junkies, you know what I mean? At the time I was like, you know, kind of like this fresh, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't hardened yet in that way. So it was very easy for me to be like, I'm not as bad as these stuff. Yeah. Like I don't, I don't align with this or whatever, but I'm going pretty much just to like appease my mom and tell her that I went, but it was really, really short lived. And then I eventually break up with the guy we were together for almost four years. Well, I guess too. Okay.

1:19:10So then this is you asked like, when do you know that it's like a problem? I ended up getting pregnant with the boyfriend and I was like, you know, whatever. I got an abortion and I didn't think too much of it. There was another girlfriend of mine at the time who had something, who had the same thing happened. And I was like, okay, it's like it's okay. It's not, it's not a big deal, you know, whatever. Go through, go through Planned Parenthood and got an abortion. But immediately after the abortion, I'm getting high, you know, and then in less than a year's time, I got pregnant again with my boyfriend. And this time he's not like, he doesn't really support my decision to like, to get an abortion. He's upset. Obviously, I'm upset. I didn't know that I was pregnant. I was going to the gynecologist for like a regular checkup and they were like, you're

1:20:11pregnant. And like, the gynecologist was like really making me feel like ashamed of it. You know, like I said, the first time I went through Planned Parenthood, they deal with that shit all the time. They're not flinching. This was like a gynecologist in the suburban town that I grew up in who was like immediately judging me and stuff. And then like I said, my ex boyfriend was not supporting my decision and I'm like hysterically crying. So I call my mom and she comes and meets me in the parking lot and she's like, we can do whatever you want to do. But something inside of me knew like, or I don't know, I was just like, I'm not having a kid right now, you know, even though my boyfriend at the time wasn't. He was like, let's get a family together. I think he was. Yeah, I think he was. And that's crazy because neither of us, I mean, we were doing drugs and like, you were like 21 or 21. Yeah, literally like 21.

1:21:1221. I'm sure it would have solved all your problems if you had the kid. Yeah, of course. I'm sure you guys would be really happy right now and king of prussia somewhere. So I, because I went through the gynecologist for this, I end up having the abortion at a hospital. And he refuses to come that the boyfriend refuses to come to like, be supportive or whatever. So I get out of the procedure and I'm back at my parent's house and he drives the two hours to come there. But immediately just starts a fight with me and my parent's house, like a blowout fight. He just like, get in his car and like speeds away. Do your parents find out? Oh, they knew I told my mom. About both. I was trying not to tell her about the first one. I was only telling her about the second one. But then when I was going in for the procedure, the guy put like the laughing gas on me or whatever.

1:22:13So I'm going to pass out in a second and I had already asked him, please don't say in front of my mom that this is the second time. He said it. This is the guy I'm saying. He was like judging me and he did that shit on purpose. I think crazy, right? Weird. So I'm like on the bed like about to pass out and he goes, this is the second time, right? And I'm like, and your mother's in the room. She's standing right there. I'm about to pass out. I'm like, that's crazy. So after the procedure, begging my ex to come, he comes, we get a huge fight, blowout fight. He storms out of the house, speeds away. And I remember being like texting someone to get perks and just being like, that was the first time I remember using out of like pain or whatever. You know what I mean? Like I was like emotionally distraught and that was all I wanted. And they bring you the perks and it probably makes you feel better. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. See, these are moments, right? And it's funny when we can track them down and you're like, you are on your way, but

1:23:16this was like urine pain, urine physical pain, but you're an emotional pain, you're in shame spiral. Yeah. Everybody's kind of like, had it up to here with you and you're like, here's the thing that's going to make me feel better. Yeah, exactly. And that was like a fracture in my relationship with that guy. So after that happened, our relationship was never the same. But we stayed together maybe for like a year after that. And then we're still using or whatever. And we break up. And I think when we broke up that my using has everything to do with him and like nothing to do with me. So I thought that when we broke up, like that I would have like a different and like a good life, you know? In my mind at the time, everything was sort of like his fall or whatever. He was the problem. He was a problem. Yeah. And once you got out of the relationship, your life would really take off. Yup. Yeah.

1:24:16And it did in a way because well, so we break up. Immediately I start hanging out with this guy who I had a huge crush on in high school. And he was already had been addicted to heroin. So he's on Suboxone. Now I'm doing Suboxone. Hold on, hold on. So you're so he's a dirt bag of the highest. He's like classic, beautiful dirt bag in high school. I love this guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you fucking have two abortions. Hate yourself. He's progressed to Suboxone heroin. Yeah. And you're like, that's the guy. That's the guy. I'm like, now I can hang out with him. So I'm in my hometown hanging out with him. And I guess he was art. He had been doing heroin. Now he's on Suboxone. But he's giving the Suboxone to me. So maybe he was still doing heroin, but not telling me. Does he give you the Suboxone because does it get you higher? Because he don't have the perfect. It's getting me higher. Yeah. I think that's a piece of the story that people never mention when the subs get you

1:25:18high. Oh, yeah. Nobody ever talks about that. I was getting higher than I ever had at that point, really. What kind of, what were they, the orange ones or they the film? Sometimes you would have like the wafers or the film. They're both orange though. I never did the film. And I don't know. I never was on Suboxone maintenance for a long period of time. But I remember one time I was trying to get heroin. And I think I think I was with Linda and the baby. And they were gone for the weekend. And I was going to score heroin. And I, you guys, I don't have heroin, but I have subs. And he had those big orange octagonal ones. Yeah, the stop sign. And I ate it and I got way higher than I got off the heroin. The heroin was such garbage where I was getting heroin. And the sub, I was like, what the hell? But so like, yeah, I never wound up on Suboxone maintenance. But I think it's, and people listen and there's people who are listening right now who are on subs and like in Suboxone maintenance and they're not getting high.

1:26:20But I just think it's important to say that they can get you really hot. Definitely. Yeah, especially because at the time, yeah, like I had been just doing kind of like pills. So these were stronger in some ways, I guess. And so, but I didn't because they were prescribed him. I don't know. In my mind, I thought that it was better than the perks. Yeah. So immediately, I'm hanging out with him and pretty much like every weekend, or I don't know, maybe it was weekdays. I don't know. But him and I, he would give me like a sub and then we would go to the bar and we would take a bunch of money from people to go get Coke and Patterson. And so that's when I really started like doing a lot of Coke. So we would go to Patterson. We were charging people twice what it cost and then we were using that money to get ourselves. And I was always driving. He couldn't drive. And I remember like one time we were coming back from Patterson with the Coke and he busts out the whole gram on a CD case and splits it into two lines.

1:27:25And we did each a half gram line. And I'm like shaking like driving the car, you know. So that's what was happening kind of when I got out of that relationship. So I'm doing that for a little bit, a little while. And then miraculously, I guess I went to like, I think I met this group. I went to a show in Brooklyn. It was like EOdo, which was like some of the percussionists from the string cheese incident. Randomly, I just go there and I ended up meeting these magnificent hippies. And this is where I get to go on tour for the first time. These people like kind of changed my life temporarily. And I do come out of like this sort of degenerate drug use for a little while into like a happier version of drug use. So who are these magnificent hippies? So some of these people, I'm still friends with a lot of them to this day, but you know, they're just like kids from New Jersey who were already going to like a lot of shows, you know, they were seeing further, they were seeing fish.

1:28:26And how do they invite you and what do you, what do you like, what do you do? How do you do it? Well, so I meet them at a show and I end up talking to like one, you know, one of the guys from the group. And then I guess like he starts inviting me to stuff, you know, whether it's going, like they have like a hippie house and rather for New Jersey and they're inviting me over there. And everybody's cooking big dinners together, smoking tons of weed. And like it's just like a, it's way more family vibes than doing the half a gram of coke on the way back from Camden earlier. Yeah, yeah, on the way back from Paterson. Yeah, exactly. And and this is where I'm like, like I said, in high school, I was obsessed with the 1960s counter culture. Now I'm kind of like seeing it in real time. And I'm like, I'm so shocked that people are still like living like this and people are going on tour and they're like, welcome home. And you're like, yeah, I'm back in the garden. That's how it felt. That's how it felt. Right. Um, before I graduated high school, I saw a rat dog.

1:29:29I went to see rat dog and the almond brothers. And that was my very first time seeing hippies like in action like that. It was pouring rain people were mudsliding down the lawn. And um, that was when I, I recognized, oh, people are actually still doing this, but I didn't know anybody, you know what I mean? And then fast forward, you know, whatever, five years I am in with this crew that like is, you know, you're recruited to be part of this modern family. Yes. Yes. You're like, and I'm doing it. Yes. Oh my God. And it really felt like that. Like it really felt like that. It was so nice. Tell me everything. Tell me everything about it. So I get in with them and, uh, and a lot of them have gone on tours already. You know, some of them have been on like fish tour. And so I immediately start going to see further a lot, um, further, who is the guitar player and further? John K, John Cadillac. So it's, it's, it's, it's whatever. Bobby and it's all the original members except for Jerry. Who's the keyboard player Vince Wellnick?

1:30:29Oh no. It's, uh, the keyboard player is Jeff Chimente. Okay. He's good. He's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I ever saw further. Um, anyway, so key, I want to hear how are you supporting yourself? Yeah. Who are you traveling with? Yeah. On a defunct school bus? What's coming? What's Subaru? Subaru, uh, Subaru Alback, but it's me. So I end up dating one of the people from this group and my, is that what the band was called? Oh, not from, not from the, not from me. You're a magnificent, you're a magnificent hippie group. Yeah, my, yeah. Did the group have a name? No. Some kind of collective flaming salamander collective. Oh, wait. No, no, but no, they used to call, oh, we would always refer to each other as like muppets and fraggles and stuff, but, um, they lived in a greenhouse and we would call it like the greenhouse or whatever, but, um, it's so fun like thinking about this because it was just like such a special time. But I end up traveling with my ex and that not the, not the guy from before, but another

1:31:34guy. And so it's me and two guys and we go everywhere together and one of our older friends jokes that the three of us can do an entire tour with only $23 between us. So we're, we're broke, but we're making it happen just through like selling water. And then I'm working for food vendors at music festivals also. So like you get, you could get paid like a thousand dollars for a weekend doing food at like Bonnaroo or mountain gym. Your boyfriend and this other guy and the three of you in the Subaru Outback going from show to show, buying a case of water for 20 bucks, selling it for a hundred bucks or something. Yeah. And case of waters like four bucks or was anyway. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know tour economics. Yeah. So you think about it. If a case of water, you get, I think, 28 or 30 bottles and it costs like $4 and you're charging, you're selling a bunch of things for a dollar.

1:32:35You're doing good. Pretty good. Come up. Honestly, it's better than beer. I wonder why people like do beer because I think water is better. Come up. But at this point, I might not want to put that much plastic into the world of different morals now, but. So you're sounding so waters a good come up. You're working for the corporate arm of the, of the, of the, your selling food. Do you ever sell grilled cheese? Were you ever selling acid? Nothing. Yeah. I was sometimes dabbling and selling like I sold like MDMA, Molly or whatever. Actually, I remember we went to all good music festival and we had went there with whatever it was like an ounce of what was supposed to be Molly. Now this is at this time, everybody's testing their drugs. It's like a new way to test your drugs and the stuff that we had wasn't actually what it was supposed to be. It was M1, which is like some kind of research chemical and nobody wanted to buy it from us. How was it? I didn't like it.

1:33:35It wasn't the same. It wasn't the same. There was something, you know, it's just like a weird feeling, which. Hold up though. You had been with the boyfriend taking some oxen, taking perk 30s. Did you have a habit at that point or you were just like, I'm cool and you just get on the road? Yeah. I kind of was cool. All right. And what about you and the two guys just smoking weed or are you doing pills like what's the drug scene like? We're smoking lots of weed and yeah. It's a good time. Yeah. We're taking lots of like acid and stuff at the shows. Yeah. This is where I'm drinking like really alcoholically. You know, I mean, not in the morning or anything like that, but we're on tour every single day. I'm getting drunk and I'm drinking liquor. So that was another thing I think for me because I never liked beer. So I was always gravitating towards like, you know, liquor.

1:34:35What were you drinking? Whiskey. Sometimes moonshine in certain states out of the jar. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So and it's like paint, give us the picture of what it looked because what years are we talking about? The first time I went on tour was 2012. So like what does it look like to be on tour in 2012? Where are you sleeping? You sleep in the car? You have a pen. Uh, we're sleeping sometime. Yeah, we have a tent. We're sleeping outside a lot at campgrounds. On the side of the road, weird like road pull offs. We went all the way to California. So it really depends, you know, like on the state. But most of the time we're sleeping outside. Occasionally we would get like a motel, but we were always broke. So we were oftentimes trying to find the cheapest way to sleep. So outside somewhere. And that was like the great adventure. I mean, like when you hear the old Jerry quote where he's like, in the old days, you could hop a freight train, but now you go on tour and you got to experience.

1:35:38Yeah, exactly. When we got to San Francisco, it was really like the great adventure. We got to see further at a grateful dead stadium out there. And what's grateful dead state shoreline amphitheater? Okay. Did they rename it grateful dead state? No, but I think like we were just calling it that because somebody said like the way that the amphitheater was designed was to like look like a steelier or something. Maybe that's a lie. That's probably a lie now that I say it out. They just told kids on acid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for you, we get to San Francisco and we slept in Golden Gate Park for a couple of months. For months? Yeah. You lived in Golden Gate Park for months? Yeah. And what is that like? Raccoon stealing sandwiches out of our backpacks when we were sleeping. Oh, yeah, too. Also, like, so I'm collecting unemployment from that restaurant job. I had. So that's one way that I'm like funding this. I've just get like a couple hundred bucks through unemployment every two weeks.

1:36:40And I'm on food stamps too. That was a way to make it. And you guys are not total fucking drug addicts. Mm-hmm. You're just kind of like living it up. Drink it. Maybe your total alcoholics a little bit. Yeah. Get a bottle. Do you get a bottle like every night kind of thing? Yeah. So you find yourself dependent on alcohol without really noticing? Yes. And it's my one friend and I. We both had a history of using opiates. So, but on the road, we're not doing that. And then my ex, he was, he would barely drinking or anything like a big stoner, but yeah. So I'm drinking a lot. And then I guess what happens is in between tours, I come home back to New Jersey and all like stay with my parents and I'm using opiates again. So it's kind of like when I go on tour, everything feels like much lighter, but I'm getting into this pattern where every time I come home, I'm using hard drugs again.

1:37:45I remember like if I ever took a break from heroin and I did anything else, all I was thinking about was not doing heroin. You know what I mean? Like not taking opiates. Yeah. And then I would do whatever I could. And then the further you got away from it, the less of kind of like a pull it had on my brain. But, but I remember that feeling was that and like was that something that you were think like were you consciously not doing opiates when you were on tour? Yeah. And I was thinking always that I wouldn't do them again, you know? Like every time I left, I was like, it's going to be, you know, I'm, yeah, I'm not going to do, I'm not going to go back. I'm not going to do that. I had wanted to like live in California. I, from a young age, I wanted to go out west, you know? So another thing that we did when we got to California was like trim on weed farms and like thought that I would stay there, but we always ended up coming back. Why didn't you stay on the farm? Um, I mean, we were there like for the season, but the farm that I was on didn't even have a house.

1:38:45It didn't have a bathroom. No showers, no nothing. It was literally just like raw land and we were staying intense. And after you do that for a couple months, like, I was like, you know, fuck this. I want to go back to New Jersey. Yeah. New Jersey is so bad. The creature comforts. Yeah. But you did it up. You did your full on fucking ultimate hippie excursion. Mm hmm. Like I didn't come close. Like I can, I mean, I got, I trimmed for a day and they fired me because I was too annoying. I was really slow at it. I was not good at it. I remember the people I was working for getting really mad. And I like, I loved all that hippie stuff, but I was like, I can't really do it. I was just like, I was just like a weirdo and kept my distance and I couldn't drugs. But you fucking went full on. But then it wore you down and you were like, I'm going to go home. Yeah. There was so much also like besides just going to shows and doing like the hippie adventure. There was so much natural beauty. Like I was really enjoying seeing America.

1:39:45Right. Because that hits a spot that you don't even know you have. Yes. Yes. So did you break up with the boyfriend and were you like, that's why I'm going home? Or like what was the reason for getting out of the adventure? I think we had just been living on this hill in the fall and like, like I said, no house, no bathroom, no shower. Like, we just wanted to go back home and we did. So we drove all the way back. And then let's see. I guess like from 2012 to like 2014, I was going on tour coming back, going on tour coming back. Eventually, I guess I'm kind of like, oh, I should like figure out something to do with my life. So what were you thinking? So those same hippies, like a lot of the girls, they, I learned how to cook from them. Like I said, they would like invite us over and make these big dinners.

1:40:45And like I got kind of interested in cooking. I was always sort of interested in like the food system. When I was in high school, I had become a vegetarian. And so I was interested in like where food came from and this and this and that. And then I learned how to cook sort of from these girls. And I thought maybe I would want to be a chef. So I ended up going to culinary school in 2013. And that sort of like in New York. Okay. Which one? The Natural Gourmet Institute. Nice. It doesn't exist anymore, but it was right around here. Okay. And they sold their program to the CIA, not the government entity. The culinary school. Yeah. All right. So you're like, because you'll be creative. And you'll be making something that people love to eat and it will feel good. Yeah. Did you, did you listen to the Baklava guy or not? No, I didn't. He did, he went to culinary school too. Oh, he did. He did. So what, so what did you do with it? So I finished the culinary program.

1:41:47The whole time I'm in the culinary program, I'm doing pills again. So I finished the culinary program and then I ended up getting a job in Montclair at a restaurant like cooking on a line. Which this just rubs like me being like a tour kid. But I guess, you know, I'm feeling also like this pressure, like I have to like also like have a life, you know. But what happens is now I'm like in Jersey and in a restaurant and just like using more and more. Was it still perks or was it oxy at that point? It was, it was perks. Oxies were like becoming sort of harder to find. Like they're peppered in there, but the most commonly found pill for at least in my area was perk 30s. But yeah, it's perks and now I'm starting to do heroin. Where does that come from? Well perks are super expensive, right? So when I started doing them, they were like sometimes we could get them for like $15

1:42:51a pill for a perk 30. At this point, that seems very expensive to me. Expensive? Yeah, it is. It is. But at this point, now they're $30 a pill. And like a bag is 10. Exactly. And a bag is stronger than a perk 30. Exactly. I had hit up a guy that I met in an A and that was like the first person I got. Parable. So how did you know that he was going to hook you up? Because how do you know he was using? I don't know. Maybe I may be out of eating. Like he goes to an architex and I was like, but he has the fucking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was definitely using. I don't know. Maybe we were like messaging on Facebook Messenger and he was like, oh, I'm not doing good. And I was like, perfect. Right. Right. Hook me up. Let's link up. So yeah, then I start doing dope and it wasn't long after that. I guess that I went to treatment for the first time. Were you snorting in or shooting in? Snorting it. So you were snorting in and then how did you wind up going to treatment? Again, I'm like working at this restaurant, living with my parents.

1:43:54My mom is like very concerned. And I think she's starting to like put the pressure on me. Like, you know, she's upset. There's like big blowout between us and I guess it just came to a point. Like she's saying to me, like, you need help. You need help. And I'm it probably like eventually kind of got to me and I was like, oh, I do. Well, you're snorting heroin and you're in their house. Exactly. Yeah. And they're finding like straws, you know, and stuff like that. So did they find did they know you were doing heroin? No, I think my mom was always like wondering what it was and she just knew it wasn't good. Right. So, yeah, so I ended up going to treatment. I went to Karen in Pennsylvania. Sure. And yeah, I was there for like 50 days and then I moved to Connecticut into a sober house. And that's how I ended up eventually working at Turnbridge just from like meeting people there.

1:44:57How much and did you get into being sober? Like where you? I was super into it. And I was so at Turnbridge, I was the head chef of their women's program. So you wait, when you first went, wait, no, don't jump ahead or I'm going to not know what's going on. So you went to treatment, you went to Karen, you went to a sober house in Connecticut. And you were like, I want, were you like, I want to be sober? Yeah, I was. I was. I didn't go to treatment really wanting to be sober or knowing anything about being sober. But once, but like I had said before, going to treatment in my mind was like this big declaration. And once I made that, once I made that call, there was no going back. So once I got there, I was like, okay, I'm doing this. I'm here now. I'm doing it. And Karen isn't cheap. But my parents had to like refinance their house to send me there. Yes. Getting, I guess in the end, my dad's insurance covered it, but it didn't at first.

1:46:03So they had to pay it out. And then in the end got like most of the money back. But yeah, I wasn't taking that lightly. I guess. Right. So you're like, I'm doing this. Yes. And you go to a sober living in Connecticut. And how does it fall apart? Okay. So I go to a sober living in Connecticut. I'm like working at this like deli. And then I end up, I end up getting a job at Turnbridge. I'm cooking at turnbridge. It was then. It wasn't. It was then. It was then. I was sober for like four years then. Wow. Then I relapsed in. Hold up, hold up though. Yeah. Four years sober. Mm-hmm. I got sober in 2015. I would have been the class of 2015 if I didn't relapse. Yeah. So like 2015, you were born in 1990. So you're 2025. I was 25. 25. And then are you like in program like doing did the steps and that stuff. Yep. I'm in AA. Wow. So you were totally invested. Mm-hmm. You're working as the chef in a treatment center.

1:47:04Mm-hmm. So when does it start this is very important information. Yeah. Yeah. So when does it start falling apart? Also, I should say like with fish and dead shows, the sober community was so like pivotal in that stability that I had. I was just being connected to other people and like the music scene that were you at Thel? Yeah. Were you a yellow balloon person? Yeah. Do you know Eric Poppiss-Murph and Jen Dawson and all those people? No. I hear you talk about them. I don't think I know them. Okay. Okay. So yeah, I'm like all in. I'm working at Turnbridge and then I meet Brian through Instagram. So we start talking. You see Shake Down Scree. It's Shake Down Scree. Yeah. Like this guy's funny. Yes. But I didn't understand at the time. Like when I was like a tour kid, I wasn't really with the technology. I didn't even really understand Instagram like that when I first got on there. I was like, I don't even know like our memes made by people.

1:48:05What's the deal with this? You know what I mean? Like it was just very like obscure to me. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, I'm following Shake Down Scree and I'm like, this is so funny. Like just as such a unique like, you know, it's spoke to you. Yes. And uh, she was using at the time. He was. And you were sober. I was sober. And you were still in meetings or not? Mm-hmm. Okay. So he, does he like hit you up? Yes. Because I don't remember his picture being on there. Yeah. He hits me up and he's like, he can see through my Instagram that I'm a dead head and that I'm in recovery because I was posting shit, you know, whatever. And he has like a week, you know, sober. Right. So, I started talking in messages and then one day he's like, can I call you on the phone? And I'm like, sure, that, you know, and we started talking on the phone and it just felt like I had known him, I don't know, just a weird soul connection. It felt like I had known him forever, you know? Yeah. Um, and yeah.

1:49:05And then eventually I drove down to South Jersey to meet up with him for the first time and we pretty much were like inseparable after that. Was he using the first time you saw him? No, no. So he had DMed me. He messaged me about, oh, like I can see that you're sober. Whatever we start talking, he's like in a drug, uh, he's like in like an outpatient program. And he was, and he was a heroin addict. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And more so, I think at the time he was more so like a crack addict, but, um, yeah, he was in like a court ordered outpatient program. So he was trying to get sober, but I don't know if he was trying for like, himself or if he was trying because he had to, but once we met like, I think he was very excited about like, you know, maybe like you being sober and having a chance to be a sober, happy and enjoy the benefits of that. Yes. So what, what happened? Yeah.

1:50:06So I, in 2019, so we're in a long distance relationship and then you're like, farm love and media. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is so awesome. Like obviously Brian is dead, but like it's a beautiful story. You know, it's beautiful when you have that experience with someone. I'm sure you have that experience with Linda. We've had, we've had multiple experiences. Like, yeah. But those experiences are, are super special in there. It's like, especially though it's like your setup, sober in this place, he's new and he's like, this might be the answer like in a way and you're like, oh, this guy's super funny and comes from where I come from and maybe I can help him. Yes. And it's also like that exciting thing. Yeah. Yeah. But I remember I had it in my head too. Like, I can't rush into a relationship with this person because he's, he's, he's, he's any sober person would have told you not to go.

1:51:06From Sir People are like, are you fucking crazy? Yeah. Did you, did you move down there? I did. Yeah. So that's where I live now in like the Atlantic City area. I moved down there in, in 2019 and like pretty much immediate, like so, okay, before I moved down there, I started taking psychedelics again. What did you take? acid. What made you do it? So I'm before that. I had a, a few months where I was drinking cratum. I was ordering kilos of cratum online, which started really innocently. I was with sober people and went to a Kava bar before a show. I had no experience with anything like that and I ordered the cratum drink. I didn't even really know what it was at the time and it felt good. You know, I did hit you hard. Yeah, because I was, I was so sober, you know what I mean? You're talking to me. I had ordered like two of these cratum drinks from this Kava bar and it felt like it gave

1:52:09me that like butterfly kind of uplifting feeling or whatever. So and then I came home. I had a friend who was living on my couch at the time and he had simultaneously tried cratum separately for me the same night. And there you were like, oh my god, this is the thing. And then like do you think you were like and we're still sober somehow? Yes. Isn't that the craziest part? I felt that way and get high and somehow we're still sober. We're still sober. That's literally what I felt. Yes. So fun. So then I had a few months where I was ordering literal kilos of cratum drinking so much of it. It comes in a, yeah, it comes in like a vacuum sealed bag. Right. And you're like, somehow I'm getting these kilos of drugs in vacuum sealed bags, but I'm still sober. Yeah, exactly. But the mind is funny. We can tell ourselves a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So much from like relapsing like about like my brain and like, yeah, just like rationalizing

1:53:10and like the way that I don't know the way that my brain works. But after using cratum for a few months, I was very depressed. And I was at that point. I was like, I should start micro dosing to help with depression. Depression. My depression. Because micro dosing is great for depression. Yes. Yes. So how do you get micro doses? Like how do you measure it out? Where do you get it from? So I have, you know, some friends or whatever, like we, GDF, liquid bottles. Yeah. Kind of. We like suspended it in alcohol. And I would take just drops of it when I went when I measured it out when I met Chris in treatment at mountainside. My I had two roommates, one and I never talk about this on the show. One of them was this really nerdy guy who didn't talk. And the other one was this strange guy. He was kind of like built like big and he was nerdy and he had glasses. But the weirdest thing about him was he was like part of GDF.

1:54:10He was like, he sold, he all he would talk about were sheets of acid and books of acid and and the families and who made the acid. And I was like, oh my God, I got to get him. And on the show eventually. And then I never turned up again. I don't know what happened to him. He could very well be dead. I was so interested in that subculture of acid making, mafioso hippies. Yeah. And like how they make it, how they put it out, like what is the all of it. And like so when you're microdosing, like are you getting it from some chemist? Yeah, probably like a couple of people removed, you know? Okay. Yeah. And how do you make a microdose? So my, a friend of mine is very smart about stuff like that and she measured it. And well, she said she did anyway. Like she said she measured it so that it would be that each, each drop from this dropper would be a certain amount. You take a dose and you put it in alcohol so it becomes like a tincture.

1:55:12It was liquid to begin with. Oh, it was liquid. Liquid suspended in the alcohol. Yeah, but yeah, then it was just like in a tincture bottle. Did you ever put the liquid in your eyes? No. Never. No. Oh, damn it. All right. So you decide that microdosing could help? Yeah. So by the time that I moved down to South Jersey, I'm already not sober, you know? And now at this point, Brian and I are taking regular sized doses. That was really interesting because in my younger times traveling and being on tour, I was always drinking on top of getting spun. Now at this point, I wasn't drinking yet. So sometimes acid is really strong. So it was really interesting to navigate like taking acid without alcohol or benzos or something, you know, at the end to like calm down. What about me? Calm down. I wasn't smoking weed. Because I was selling weed at this point though. In sobriety, which is awesome because I was making a lot of extra money while I was

1:56:17working at Turnbridge. And that's some— Don't tell them. I'm just kidding. Got some kind of like psychedelic sobriety, like all these different, you know, ways that people decide they're sober and like, like how long does— there's a guy who goes to our meetings who microdose like every day. He's many, many years off of everything else and he takes it for ADD and depression or whatever. And like I don't think he takes enough to get spun or whatever. I could not imagine taking psychedelics and not needing to smoke weed or take a benzo or do something. It's intense. It's so fucking high energy. Yes. Yes. And so like, you're not going to meetings when you're selling weed. At this point, I'm not. Yeah, yeah. It's over. Do you think it was the romance with Brian, the Crater? It was all of it at once. Oh, yeah. This is an important part of my story. So I talk about all these like time periods and there's always like a man involved and

1:57:17I can think about different eras and there's a specific man. I've had rehab counselors call me a serial monogamous before because I have these long term relationships that sort of define different time periods in my life. When I got sober in 2015, I was single and like celibate. I really was doing the thing like they say to do. You know what I mean? I was really doing that for like over a year, about a year and a half. And I had done all this work on being like codependent and stuff. And when I met Brian, it like all went out the window in that way. Like I had tried to do all this work on like the way that I relate to another person romantically and not just like, you know, abandon all of my own like things to integrate with them. And I couldn't, you know, it's like real app city. It's like, it's like, it's like an overflow of stimulus. It's crazy how drunk we get on that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's really interesting.

1:58:18And then once, at that point, had you been doing the kilos of cratum and stuff, that was already in the, so it was a bunch of shit. And you're still very young, right? Yeah. You know, the 2000 and this was like, yeah, I'm like 28. Yeah. Yeah. And you live with Brian, you're selling weed, you're tripping acid. And at what point is it just like, fuck it, we're not sober anyway. Yeah. Was he not doing heroin or smoking crack? He was not. Yeah, he was not. He had gotten about like a year totally sober. Was he doing program? No. Right. I was like doing like love and psychedelics. I should. I tried to like, not try to, but like I, when I was into the program, I was trying to like, introduce him to that. And he, I think, had tried to go to meetings and never really felt, you know, whatever. A lot of people have that experience. So anyway, yeah, at that point, we start drinking and we're just like, yeah, we're not, we're not sober. I moved down there. We had been in a long distance relationship.

1:59:19Now we live together. So this is a totally new experience than being in a long distance relationship and we're drinking. Do you remember when you broke the C.L. on drinking? Yeah. Was fucking terrible. Yes. Like, was that like remember? Tell me what you remember from that situation. Yeah. This is actually funny because there's like a photographic evidence of this day. So it's Brian's birthday. I went to a, I was so excited for Brian's birthday. I went to like the bakery at a grocery store and got a picture of my butt printed out on sugar paper and I'm going to, you could put it on a cake. So they can print any image onto like sugar paper. So you made him an ass cake? I made him an ass cake. Yeah. Or his birthday. So I got the sugar print out and then when I drove down to South Jersey, I got an ice cream cake in the Walmart parking lot. I laid the image onto the cake and I go to his house and we take acid and we've decided

2:00:24to drink. So we, this is before we actually moved in together. So it was like just slightly before that a couple months. You decide to drink when you're tripping. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. Well, maybe we had decided before we do it. I don't know. We had decided that we were going to do it and we got four locus. We each got a four locus and we got a bottle of Jamison and we like blacked out, passed out. You know, acid gives you energy. We both passed out the cake melted on the counter. She didn't, you didn't even get to enjoy the ass cake. We didn't eat the cake. Yeah. And it was ice cream cake. So it just melted, you know, on the counter. And any kind of vestige of recovery melted away with the cake. Totally. Very symbolic. Very symbolic. So fucking now you're drinking with Brian, South Jersey. And I'm depressed, bad. And you just showed up there to be in this love affair and instead everything fell out the window. Mm-hmm.

2:01:24So immediately I'm drinking alcoholically. I got a job. I had the, you know, me working at Turnbridge and being the chef of their program was like a pretty big deal for me at the time. You know what I mean? It was a good gig. I mean, I was extremely underpaid, but it was a good gig. But the fringe benefits of program and being surrounded by so many people and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Oh, it was amazing. I loved like, you know, getting to talk to the clients in the house and like, you know, some of them I think looked up to me. Like it was a cool experience. Good community. Good community. Good sobriety experience. Exactly. Perfect sober job. Mm-hmm. Now I'm living in Atlantic City working at some shitty Tex Max restaurant and I'm buying booze on my break. So I'm doing like four doubles a week and walking across to the liquor store to get vodka, little bottles and drinking on my break. And I'm so depressed. And I'm like, I've made a mistake.

2:02:25I don't know what to do. Like, but you love Brian. But I love Brian, but we're not really getting along. Like it's all like, it's all a lot. It's very tense. And I'm like projecting again, a lot of this onto him. You know what I mean? I'm thinking, why did I do this here? I am now. I'm like depressed and I'm drinking alcoholically and it's his fault. Well, it's the classic story of like, if you try to like be with an alcoholic chances are you will relapse like that. Mm-hmm. Saving this person when they're drowning, they're probably going to kill you. Before you save them. Yeah, right. So here you are in full relapse. Right. With this guy that you fell madly in love with. Yeah. And I was on my own way outside of him. Right. You know what I mean? But in my mind, I'm like, so it's tense between us. Well, it's the cratum. It's, it's, uh, what was the other thing of the acid? And then it's the fucking full on love thing. And between all those things, everything else is out the window. Yeah. And then the cram is very much like a bridge to staying on this side of the fence of trying

2:03:26to do the next right thing and all these things we do. Right. And once you're doing all these other things, it's kind of, it's hard to do both. Yeah. If not impossible. Yeah. So like, are you missing opiates or does the crack show up first? Um, so like, yeah, with the booze, it got pretty bad and then it got, and then it got better. Like, it was dark and then we learned how to live together. I'm like developing a slightly better relationship with alcohol. Um, I get a better job. It's also serving in a restaurant, but like, I'm not as unhappy as I was at the other place. Um, and, but now we're doing tons of coke and K. So, but like my, I guess when I say it got better, like, I wasn't like as depressed and our relationship was in a better place. You got used to the lifestyle, like the disappointment was gone. Yes. Okay, this is how our life is going to be. Yeah. Something that was, my whole life with all this stuff is like so surrounded in like the

2:04:27shame, you know what I mean? Like starting from like that high school, the drug test and like all of that, like it's all shame, shame. Then when I, when I moved down to South Jersey and start using substances again, I'm feeling like, oh, nobody from Connecticut from my recovery, like nobody can know about that. That's all like shame, you know what I mean? Sure. But yeah, now I'm like balanced out in the lifestyle and we're, we're partying on the weekends or whatever. I mean, we both are working in restaurants. We're partying a couple of days a week doing coke and K and drinking and then when COVID hit, this is so, this is where I have like the exact memories, you know, when co, when COVID hit, we were both, we both worked in restaurants in the same little area and that day I was at work and it was like, you know, I just got in there and they just get the news that they have to shut down the restaurants and the day before one of the line cooks had

2:05:30asked me if I ever want any perks and I said, no, please don't ask me that again. The next day is the COVID shutdown and he asked me again and I was like, well, yeah, I was like, I guess I said to Brian, like, we're probably not going to have to work for at least a month. So like, I don't know why that was like the justification for it. I didn't intend on us doing it every day for a month. I don't know why, but I'm like, yeah, we could do it. Probably that would be fine. And we did. And did you do it every day for the month? Yeah. Yeah. And pretty much immediately it was clear that they were not perks. They were pressed, fentanyl pills. So it progressed like super quick, you know, and did you start getting the stimulus money? Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you know how I said before that when I was on tour, I was collecting unemployment from that restaurant. Well, they had contested my unemployment and asked for the money back, which was about

2:06:32$10,000. So when COVID hit the state of New Jersey garnished my like that grant until the 10 grand was paid back. So we're just getting by from selling weed and like occasionally getting like the stimulus money. But yeah, it was pretty clear immediately that they were pressed, fentanyl pills, and we switched. How did you know? They just weren't right. They didn't look right. They didn't feel right. They didn't look right. They didn't feel right. And fentanyl feels so different than like... Describe it. I feel like pharmaceutical, you know, whatever. Oxies, perk thirties, or even like good heroin is so euphoric. Right. And I never had that feeling really with fentanyl. It's... It doesn't feel that like warm like buttery feeling, you know what I mean?

2:07:35It's... I don't know. It just kind of knocks you out. And I guess it feels a little bit good, but it never quite hit the same way. Sure. I can kind of imagine some kind of synthetic version of high. I never defense anl. I don't think I ever did fentanyl unless somebody slipped it. I think I stopped doing heroin in like 2013 or 2014 or so. So I don't think I ever got to do it. But I mean, you hear about it. When we were younger, you'd hear it was like the ultimate version, but now that it became the epidemic, it was not the ultimate version. Yeah, definitely not. Were you concerned that you guys were on the press fence and all? Yeah. Yeah, but it was good. Because people were dying, you were like, fuck, this is going to kill us. Or were you like, this isn't even that good. This bullshit. I think probably... I think maybe both, but it was too late. Right. And so we were doing those. And then at some point, we were like, why are we paying this person more money for these

2:08:36when we can just go to Atlantic City and get bags? Of heroin. Yep. And then once we did that, we also decided to get crack. How bad is Atlantic City? It's bad. Like I feel like... I feel like I've been to Atlantic City a few times, but I was definitely like using so much, I don't even remember the experience. But I remember it being like bad, like not like nothing's happening there except fucking debauchery, people in the street, fucking every building. It seems like it's like falling apart. Yeah. But it's still a casino town. Yes. Yeah. So just so how far away from it are you living and do you listen to the song Atlantic City a lot? I love that song. It's such a good song. Do you like the band version more of the Bruce version more? They're both good. Yes. I love Bruce. You like the Bruce version more? I don't know if I like it more. Okay. So you're going down to Atlantic City with the chicken man and whoever else. Who's the chicken man?

2:09:36What are they talking about? So tell us more about that time. And like it was the first time you smoked crack. Yeah. So, well, I guess it was probably when we decided to get bags instead of pills. The song is just in my head. I know. Well, I was trying to listen to both in my head to say which one I like better. It went down to Philly last night. Or was it? They blew up the chicken man in Philly last night. No, they blew up his house. Yeah, they blew up the chicken man and his house. Yeah. There's some racquet boys who are ready for a fight. Or let's see what them racquet boys can do. Who are the racquet boys? I don't know. It's a good song. You like the song 10th Avenue Freeze Out? I love that song. It's such a good song. But I just want to know who the chicken man is. And who are the racquet boys? It's some kind of like labor dispute in the 50s or something. Oh, okay. I think that's what that song is about. But anyway, when's the first time you smoked crack in Atlantic City? It was probably when we got the bags.

2:10:39And I do remember Brian being like, well, if we're going to do this because I was always so partial to opiates, then we have to get you have to let us smoke crack, too. You know? He said that. And we're not going to let you do your thing without my thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And yeah, yeah. It went really, really, really bad, really, really quick, yeah. And then so that was like 2020 funded mostly by stimulus money or mostly by weed. And weed money, both. Yeah, both. Yep. And so it was a bad run for like a year and a half. How bad? Really bad. One point from smoking so much crack, I think, because you know, it coax messes up your circulation. My foot blew up like twice the size. I couldn't put a shoe on. I was like walking around in Atlantic City with like one shoe on, you know, going to cop. And so that was, that was pretty bad.

2:11:40And I really, like, I wouldn't stop smoking crack. And then it was starting to scare me. And I stopped smoking crack for like a week and it went down. So I think that's what it was from. Were you shooting the heroin or sniffing it? Sniffing it. So you're still sniffing it? Mm-hmm. All right. So fucking smoking crack, your foot is gigantic in Atlantic City. So many overdoses. Both of you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, probably like, I mean, I didn't count, but it's probably all the, you know, maybe 10 times each over the course of like the year and a half. So what would you do? Always one person was awake to Narcan the other. So how many times do you think you Narcan Brian? Probably like 10 or 12. And how many times do you think you Narcan? Probably like the same. Wow. And do you think it was fentanyl and not heroin or both? Definitely fentanyl. So bags were just bags of fentanyl. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you didn't like the pressed pills, but you liked the bags. Or you were just like, this will be good. I think it was just what you get, you know? Totally. Sometimes I remember we would try to go to specific people.

2:12:45We had this lady that we thought that we liked her stuff better than others. We thought it had less fentanyl in it, but I don't know if that's true or not. And then we would go to, sometimes we would go to Kensington and we would go to a specific corner because we thought that it had like more heroin in it, but I don't know if that was true. We tell ourselves we were stories about drugs. Yeah, yeah, totally. And how they hit us or whatever, what makes it that one better than the other one or whatever. Right. So I thought, I'm fucking going to Kensington, going to Atlantic City, OD and all over the place. And what happens? So I get end up getting arrested twice too. So I have to tell you those stories. But the first time I got arrested was right in front of our apartment and I had went to cop and Brian stayed home. And for some reason I had both his phone and my phone, went to cop, get back. I'm pulling up in front of our apartment. Our landlord owns an ice cream shop downstairs of the apartment and I put the car into

2:13:50park and I'm going to do a bag in the car before I go upstairs. I don't realize there was like a cop following me, lights me up and I got arrested and pushed up the glass of my landlord's ice cream shop. And it's open to my landlords like looking at me. And I have Brian's phone and my phone. So in my like drug-addled brain, I'm like, I have to tell the landlord to tell Brian to come pick me up at the police station, which he did do. He went and knocked on the door and told Brian to come pick me up at the police station. So that was the first time I got arrested. And then yeah, it's just getting like, it's just getting worse and worse. And I ended up getting arrested. A second time I was like smoking crack while driving again, I'm alone in the car. And Brian and I are going to go to Philly to get, to pick up weed. And for some reason, I must have convinced him to drive separately from me so that I could

2:14:56smoke crack on the way there and we're going to meet up with this lady for dope on the way there. So I wanted to be separate so that you couldn't get busted with the butt they were picking up. We were on the way there and we were going to meet this lady in Jersey to get dope first. But we drove, we were driving separately and we were going to meet at Wawa and then get into the same car and leave the other car. And leave the other car. So he's like following me. I'm smoking crack driving. I had just bought this crack. So I spent like $150 or whatever and a cop sees me hit the pipe and pulls me over. Brian's watching me get pulled over. And the cop doesn't, I remember like he didn't even do a field sobriety test. He just like immediately cuffed me and I just hit the crack pipe. So I'm just like, what I'm not going to like say anything. You know what I mean? And probably can't talk. And when he put me in the handcuffs, I noticed immediately that I could slip up and flip my hand out of the handcuffs like my wrists are small.

2:16:01So in the back of the cop car, I'm like, I just made a mental note that I could take myself out of the handcuffs if I wanted to or whatever. So, but I don't act on that. I keep it in there. We get to the police station and I'm, they're holding me. It's like a Friday night and they're trying to get a blood. They're trying to get a judge to like sign off on a warrant so they can get a blood test on me because I'm refusing to pee in a cup. And they're waiting. This is taking like an at what felt like an hour and hour and a half and I'm docile. I'm sitting there like I'm not starting any problems. I'm just like sitting there the whole time. And then at one point, they leave the room with the evidence bag of drugs in front of me on the table. All of them just leave the room. At this point, I'm like, oh, I can take my, I want the crack back because I just bought it and it was like $150 worth of crack. So I take myself out of the handcuffs, I take it back, I put it in my pants. And then when they come back into the room, they don't notice and I'm like, I have to go

2:17:05to the bathroom. I'm not going to pee in a cup but you have to let me go to the bathroom. And they're like, okay, fine. So they let me go to the bathroom in which point I'm going to like secure it better in my pants. And when I come out of the bathroom, they're like, she flushed the crack, she flushed the crack and the cop like kind of like pumps his chest up at me. And I thought he was going to like attack me. So now I'm swinging on a police officer. But you did you flush the crack? No, I was trying to take the crack back. So they tackled me to the ground. I'm like, I'm fighting the cops. I'm fighting the cops. I'm saying everything that you shouldn't say, like just calling them names. I think I spit in their face. Meanwhile, your father's a cop and you were just a magnificent piece living hippie on the road enjoying nature. Right, right, exactly. So I ended up getting like eight misdemeanors and seven felonies from this interaction with the police.

2:18:06And I don't even think it's that big of a deal, I guess. Like at the time, at that one arrest, you got eight misdemeanors and how many felonies? Seven. Oh my God. So I'm like, yeah, I'm fucked. And Brian's like, dude, what the fuck? Like, because again, he's not, he wasn't there. He wasn't. He's like, let's take care of the business here. Right, exactly. And I'm spaszing, you know. But I didn't think, I still didn't think it was that big of a deal immediately after because I'm so fucked up. We've been smoking crack and doing fentanyl for like over a year, you know, at this point. And then like a week after that arrest, I think my mental state sort of started to get to me. And I was like, yo, if I want to die, like I don't want to live like this anymore. So like, I'm going to treatment and you have to go to, you know.

2:19:09And because in the back of your head, you had had the time, you had known what it was like, you had known the kind of life you wanted. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was when you're so fucked up like that, you kind of forget that there's options available to you. And also because it was in the time of COVID, it was very easy to be separate from my loving family. You know what I mean? People weren't seeing each other. You could get away with a lot of weird stuff. Yeah. Because everybody's isolated. Everyone was isolated. Right. Exactly. Charges over you and you say you're going to go back to treatment and you're like, Brian, you have to fucking go to treatment. Yeah. What does he say? He didn't want to go at first, but he did. So we both went to treatment and, well, he went to a detox. I went to enlightened, which is a treatment down there. And it's a dead head owned. Yeah, I've heard of it. Stealies everywhere. Yeah. So I went there and yeah, he, I remember it, like I went before him. He dropped me off at the detox.

2:20:12And then I was in there for a couple of days, but I don't have my phone. But I'm, so one of the texts that was working in the detox was so sweet. And she, I was so worried about Brian, because now he's alone with all the overdoses and stuff. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what's going to happen to him. So she set him up and got him into a detox. And then like I, yeah, I remember calling another friend on the phone and being like, can you please pick Brian up and take him to this detox? And he said he's not answering the phone. And I was like, just go to the house and like, oh, like bang on the door, break down the door if you have to, whatever. So he ends up bringing Brian to detox. I'm in treatment for 30 days. And the, I remember the counselors in treatment were like, you should go into sober living. And I'm like, well, I have a house with a person. I have to go back to Brian. Like we have for rent to pay and whatever. So I, you know, which in retrospect, it was probably a good idea what they were saying. Of course, but because there's no way, I mean, it doesn't matter.

2:21:13Everything happens the way it happens. Yeah. Yeah. So that was in, that was in like the spring of 2021. And so then for the summer of 2021, Brian and I were off of hard drugs, but we were like almost immediately kind of taking psychedelics again. Acid. Mm-hmm. Just acid mushrooms. Like we would go to the beach and just like being in water and like just, yeah, we'd be up late at night listening to this mashing pumpkins. Like I have fond memories of that summer. And then Brian died in the fall. What happened? So like I said, we were going to meetings all summer too. Chipping out though going to meetings. Not at the meetings, but yeah. Did you ever trip out at a meeting? Yes. So there's a punk band in our area that like the members of the band are in recovery. And so the, the shows would be pretty much all people in recovery. And sometimes we would go there a little bit spun.

2:22:16Nobody could ever tell, but. Anyone in the audience that ever tripped out at an A meeting, I'm very interested in hearing this. But so like what, so you guys are like trying to get your shit together, trying to like have this, you know, love and taking psychedelics and trying to be sober and what, what happens exactly? It was so, it was hard too because at that point we had been through a lot, you know, that year and a half of run, like really fucking was, it was hard and it strained our relationship and. You got arrested. Got arrested. And with the charges, like they didn't want to put you didn't want to put you in jail for that. So I was waiting to have like my court, you know, stuff happen with that. Everything was backed up because it was COVID too. And everything was virtual as well. Right. So I would have like hearings and then they would just get postponed. Right. So it was kind of in limbo with that. Brian was so scared that I was going to have to go to jail. But so yeah, it was, it was like a hard time, but I remember it being like, because that

2:23:18now also that's the last, right. My last experience is with Brian. So I remember it fondly. And then in the fall, a friend of his from like his restaurant job would occasionally get real perk 30s. And I guess we decided that it would be okay to get them from him. And that kind of kick started a relapse. And we were then smoking crack again and doing dope for maybe a month. And then Brian died. And you were there the night he died. Yeah. It was at our house. So I was, yeah. So this is crazy. And we were fighting to that night. It's so fucked up because you don't get to decide like what the last moments that you have with someone are. And yeah, it was just like, it was such a tense time because like, yeah, we had relapse. It got very bad really fast. It was only a couple of weeks, maybe a month.

2:24:19And I was smoking a lot of crack and Brian was like, you need to go back to treatment. Like you're out of control. You know, like he thought his use was different than mine. And so the night that he died, we had an argument. I overdosed. He narcanned me. When you have a habit and you get narcan, do you go into precipitated withdrawal? So I'm immediately trying to use again quickly. And that's pretty much the last thing I remember the next morning I came to on the floor of my bedroom. And Brian wasn't in the room. And I went out into the living room and there he was. Oh my God. Yeah. And I immediately like, yeah. And you knew he was dead when you saw him? I thought he might be. Yeah. So then the paramedics came and they were like, yeah, he looked. You called him. He was called 911. He was called and he was blue. You called 911. Did you try narcanning him or no?

2:25:20Yeah. And they're guiding me through it on the phone. Right. And it's not working. Yeah. And they get there. And I'm sorry. I'm not talking to them. I think they get there and they make me leave the room and they're working on him. And then at one point, one of them comes over to me and was like, he's breathing. He's breathing. And then he comes back over and is like, never mind. Oh, God. Yeah. Never mind. Yeah. So, yeah. And then, um, I'm obviously fucking devastated. Who do you call? Like what do you do at that point? Do you get more drugs? Do you go to school? I have. Yeah. Yeah. I call one of our best friends, Calvin. And he comes down from Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania. And he's like babysitting me. But then people from the program were the first people to come to the house. I didn't know what to do. I called, I guess I called a friend who had his girlfriend passed away because he knew

2:26:26the experience. I called him. He couldn't come because he was at work. So he sent other people from the program to my house. He was sober. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then, I think people were just trying to make sure that I didn't kill myself. And so, yeah, they took me to their house. And then, when my friend Calvin came down from Pennsylvania, he picked me up from there. And then, basically, for the next, like, a week and a half, I think I was going to get a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little quantity of a little. Two weeks apart of what they did, right? Five years ago, Hopper, some time. I'll be going, you'll be 20 years out, we'll be doing that ourselves once or two days. But just imagine that you guys are in the lab. We'll get this about a minute, just about about 15 years ago.

2:27:29kind of and what is what does Brian's family say? It was a fucking hell. I mean so in this time I'm like Waiting to go to treatment because we're gonna have the service for him So I have to communicate with them. Obviously I have to communicate with them. They're like it's all I don't it's hard to even remember Everyone everyone is just fucked up. You know what I mean? Everyone's so fucked up I have to pick out an outfit for him to wear like it's all just but you also at what point do you say I'm going to fucking treatment? I knew I was going to treatment, but I yeah, yeah, but I But I Had to I wanted to do the service like I I don't know I think I Think that if I had gone to because People were like you know if you go to treatment, you know, I got scholarship to enlighten So this is all people in this community. They know me at that point I had been working at the farm at their treatment center

2:28:32Like they know me They're like, you know if you go into treatment they'll make sure you can go to the service But I'm like just like no, you know, I have to like this is the most important thing. Yeah exactly and Yeah Yeah, and your parents show up to the service. Mm-hmm. And how do your parents deal with it? They were immediately like so supportive It was crazy because like all that stuff that I say about like me growing up and like all this pressure on me in the time Where it really counted like then in that moment like even though I wasn't sober They were just there and they were just making sure that like I was supported, you know what I mean like Yeah, they just wanted to make sure you were okay, because they're your parents Yeah, and you love them and everything else was just like whatever. Yeah, and so Did you wind up going to enlighten them? Mm-hmm and I mean it's so fucked up because it's like

2:29:35I'm getting to the point in in my life where like I'm never Everything happens for a reason person like that's never been what I am but like But but you know like the thing where it's like there's no other way anything could have happened Kind of thing and then it's like well, what can we do with that? Yeah, so it's like there's nothing else that could have happened Yeah, you know and you wind up in treatment and I'm sure you're like I'm not doing this again. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but then I did but then I did so watch your laughs again So what happened So I mean well first I'm in the detox. This is me for the very first time sitting with this grief and trauma without being on a Head full of fucking crack, you know, and I'm that was I never had felt like I need to flee a detox before that Moment I was having flashbacks to finding him. I was like I need to get the fuck out of here I wanted to kill myself really

2:30:36But I but I somehow did not and I stayed there and And then once I got over to the treatment side I did this trauma therapy called brain spotting which is a It's like EMDR, but it's a different thing and it's something that you can do if you're within like six months of a Trauma happening to keep it from setting roots in your brain and becoming PTSD So I immediately started doing that and it did help well because I was having like fucking flashbacks, you know It was it was awful. I couldn't I couldn't remember Him like this. I could only remember him the way that I found him that day, which is fucking awful, you know And so anyways that brain spotting really helped with that So I go through treatment. I'm living in a sober house and then I Move from that sober house into an Oxford house and And

2:31:39The it's I did you ever live in an Oxford house? Okay, so they're like the democratically run like every house is there There's no house mom or anything like that They're you're not like paying towards like the program It's like everyone's rent money just goes into the rent Yeah, the house exactly so we didn't know this at the time my roommate and I who had moved together from the other house But this house was like Thousands of dollars in debt to the utility companies. So they're like four thousand dollars in debt to the electric company like You know, so but that's now our that's everyone's problem They didn't tell us that before we moved in they also didn't tell us before we moved in that they were fucking bedbugs in the house So I just lost my partner my sense of home You know my physical actual home that we were living in but also just like in a much grander way like my sense of home in life And now I'm like trying to do the right thing. I'm looking for it I'm living in this recovery house and

2:32:39Me and this me and my roommate are the ones getting eaten alive by bedbugs at night and So but because the house isn't so much debt to the utility companies. There's no money to pay for an exterminator so I'm calling around and Eventually get this exterminator that that agrees to put us on a payment plan So we get the exterminator to come but they when when there's a bed bug Infestation they don't just come one they have to come every two weeks for like a month and so we're living we can't unpack our shit we're living out of garbage bags and As soon as we get the last the exterminator comes for the last time the landlord decides to take the house back because they didn't have a lease Signed they had gone month to month and they decided they couldn't keep going like this. Yeah Well, I don't know the landlord It's it's in Atlantic City the landlord wanted to rent it for a summer rental and make it much more money This was like a house that was on the beach block which was pretty nice

2:33:41I mean there's parts of Atlantic City that are nice It's good real estate so the guy wanted to do it as a summer rental and they didn't have a lease sign So he just decided to take the house back At this point I'm like looking for stability and I can't fucking find it anywhere, you know what I mean? So where do you go? So I I use I'm like Fuck it. I was I got about six months. I use I also was like So just like lost and ended up like having a romantic entanglement with this guy that lived at a sober house We used together And then he dies. Oh my god. How does he died? He'd deal over those is too? No, no, not in front of me not with me, but yes, so it was like I Before when I Like when Brian was still alive and we had gone into the program I what we had each other

2:34:45So I wasn't really that interested in like making friends with that many people like in the program Sure And then he passed away. I'm totally lost living in this recovery house And I'm like I guess like I don't have anyone like I need to form these relationships But I was forming kind of like the wrong ones because I was so fucked up and so vulnerable so Yeah, I ended up just hanging around a bunch of people who also relapsed and then yeah And then that dude died and then I went back to treatment for the last time we hope Where does he go to a state-run facility and New Jersey? Mm-hmm and like the dude who died how close were you with the other dude that died? I mean I only knew him for a little while. He was a big big scumbag. How did you? How did you find out he died? So I was so I had used with him, you know and Immediately I used for like a week and immediately I was like fuck this. I can't believe I did this I got to go back to treatment. Yeah, I called the got myself into this, you know, whatever

2:35:49State-run facility and I had tried to convince him to go to treatment before He wasn't interested and when I was in the detox wing my therapist called me She's from this whole community. She's in recovery. She called me and And She said that he had died. Oh my god. And so like Is that where you're like I got a fucking get my shit together like I gotta take something you knew about action You knew how it worked. Yeah, yeah, that was like I Think where I realized like There's no like there's no distractions. There's no shortcuts There's nothing to like make this sugar coated or feel better about it You know because like my relationship with that other guy that died that was like a temporary distraction from like this mountain of grief That I was not yeah exactly exactly and so When I came out of treatment that time I like

2:36:50Really was so aware of like What I was doing to stay sober and like what was going to afford me stability and Healing and so Yeah, I was I was like much less interested in having like topical relationships with with people and Yeah, and I also Ended up going through Like refuge recovery, which I think they call it Dharma recovery in some areas But that was like your area either a no-alovine disciple or not right right right right right Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got a bad rap too. I think right you had him on we had him on I and I just like yelled at him because I because he called himself Levine That was like they can't feel real thing Oh my god, that's such a what a horrible thing and Brian also was sweet and talented and you loved him Mm-hmm, and did you get really hard into program right away?

2:37:51Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then that was crazy too because I was doing NA and I was working the program with my sponsor and I was living in a recovery house for another Oxford house for like a year You know and then my sponsor is like We should move in together. Oh god. She's like a 50 something year old woman. Yeah, I'm like, okay like maybe I'm I kind of want to get out of the Oxford house. I've been there for like a year That's a red flag. Oh, yeah, I'm looking back are you kidding me? Why did you want to move? Why did she want to move in with you? I don't know she worked in treatment too, right? But it was like broke I guess and like yes, she wants to move in with me. So we move in together with her daughter's partner Not her daughter her daughter's partner into this four-bedroom house and we're supposed to get a fourth roommate

2:38:54and She ends up moving a client in from the treatment facility. Yep. Yep. Hold time. I didn't know this she's drinking hold time She's drinking. Yeah, hold time. She's drinking she moves in Tom who is a like a 60 something year old iron worker from Pittsburgh who was addicted to heroin Clean for the very first time in his life had her on such a pedestal. He comes moves into our house He immediately pretty much realizes that she's drunk all the time and then he dies Not at the house at a hotel So I'm just like yeah, he OD's yep. Yep. Yep. At this point. I'm like But I'm in a lease, you know, so I had to finish out the lease with this situation with Tom in the sponsor and Tom dies Yeah, Tom dies. Yeah, yeah, and I'm very mad at the sponsor even though really it's just like she's just unwell You know, I'm looking back now. I'm like okay, but when I was in it, you know I've been fighting for my life for like a sense of stability and I'm like, but what's really amazing is that I stayed

2:39:58Sober through that situation too, you know, and now I've been in my own place for a couple of years I'd never want to have another roommate again in my life Well the trauma like but I also like was really working the program with her too, you know I'm like damn bro like what the fuck like And I did you get a new sponsor? No, I don't know I don't know, but you don't want another sponsor. I don't want no, I don't I honestly I mean maybe some at some point I will so wait your in program still no now. No, you're not in I'm sober. You're not in program. No all right Yeah, so what's your life like? Well, I work on a farm and I go to therapy I've been seeing the same therapist the woman who did brain spotting with me. She knows me really well I've been seeing her since 2020 actually which is crazy And she's in recovery so well, yeah, I really after that all happened with the sponsor I got more into refuge recovery and I was doing that pretty hardcore for a while But I just I don't know. I sort of just faced out of that and I don't know, you know, I just

2:41:03Do my best do a group of people who are you hanging out? Yeah, I have tons of sober friends Some of my best friends that I met through fish are sober people are through dead shows your back of fish It's happening. Did you go to the I went to one I went to one I went to one Did they play run Lincoln Antelope out of control? Not at the one I went to did they play split open and melt they played suspicious minds Elvis? Yeah nice Yeah, I bet you that was really cool. Did he play a solo section? Do he like go to do like jam no way it's like a fisherman vacuum bit you know what I fucking don't like about fish The fishman back vacuum that's maybe I mean honestly like I don't know what they what's going on in fish I know that he wears a dress and plays the vacuum, but that's I don't know what it sounds like What I don't like is usually when they do covers. They don't jam them out Yeah, they like play them like really Right, right, right. I see yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah

2:42:05So they played suspicious minds did they play what what show did you go to the last one? What was it Wednesday on 96? Was that like the best one in the run? I don't I don't think so I think 92 is the one everyone's talking about the yeah the earlier ones looked looked great I just wanted to go to the the goal G show the goal G show You would you got to give them a chance now. It's more fun hating It's a lot more fun on the side of the fence you can see them and hate on them too What about they did they do maybe so or maybe not? Oh god help us all so you have your crew Yeah, my crew back in the bosom of the magnificent hippies and fish You're growing beautiful flowers. Yeah Yeah, yeah, and in your celebrating Brian Yeah, and I and I actually have been taking a class on I've done a lot I've found a lot of different outlets for Working through grief and I've currently been taking a class on becoming a grief work facilitator

2:43:09So I'm hoping to host some spaces for people to come and talk about grief my wife runs a group in our town It's called the neighborhood house, which is a nonprofit that just helps families who had suicide or overdose Wow, and she's been doing it for Four or five years now, so it's like it's something that is really helpful to people. Yeah And it will it's like it'll be helpful to you. Yeah, it's like it's like there's things about program I mean, I'm fucking so devoted to programs Yeah, but it's I do it only because it works. Yeah, not not because and it's like it makes me feel better I don't like I don't think there's some moral high ground I do it because it's fuck it really is working. Mm-hmm. So like are you still in Atlantic City? Mm-hmm Do listen to the song a lot when you're driving around? Yeah, not enough. No, I think I did more when I first moved there. No, I I I say go to meetings. That's my I know you're like I know you came on dope It just so I could tell you I think you should just go to me. Yeah, yeah, I don't you know it was interesting coming to meetings with

2:44:15The loss of Brian people experienced so much loss in there that I I mean, it's not about people It's not about what they say or what they do. I just didn't find it to be that supportive of an environment For what I was experiencing at the time I think it's because maybe people see so much death in there that they're just like That's what happens and it's like That's crazy to say like yeah, that is what happens. I didn't I know that's what happens I say that I mean like I think I find myself saying that because I don't know what else to say and because like with dopey, right? Everybody died like I know so many people died. Mm-hmm and You know like the summer for whatever reason is when they when did Brian die? He died in November. Okay At dopey con Linda puts together this you were there. I was there. Yeah, his brain was in it I think yeah, oh my god and I just feel like

2:45:16I mean like the shows that I've been making Because it was Todd's death anniversary was in June and Chris's death anniversary was in July and this woman Annie Ellie's Death anniversary was in August and then Brian Hot Wheels his death anniversary was in July and Don DJ rents his His was in August. He his were some of my favorite episodes Don. He made me yeah, he would make me crazy Don yeah, but It's so I wind up saying now when I hear about it I kind of go yeah, that's what happens because it's it's so overwhelming because like I don't know what else to say Yeah, you know, it's like because if you're using it could totally fucking happen Yeah, and now the death seemed like they're down Like I think so the death seemed like they're down which is awesome and it's like or The deaths are the worst thing ever because we lose somebody and they can never get better Like they're trying to replace the death story with like the cradum story and the cradum story

2:46:20The I mean like cradum seems like something to rail against and and now they just made it Yeah, but now it's like if imagine see I think that could make people die It could yeah, cuz they can't get cradum and they want to get higher whatever. Yeah, but listen Leah I I wish I had something to say that would make any sense yeah besides oh it happens. Yeah, it was like But I'm sorry that that he died. Yeah, I want to help However, I can to to make that page anything and I think your story is incredible and crazy. Thank was it very satisfying to come on the show Yeah, I would say it's not that satisfying It's um, it's it's like it doesn't feel good to like talk about that shit Honestly, I don't I feel like I don't not that I talk about Brian all the time. Yeah But to recount the whole progression. I'm like oh my god I know shit's fucking crazy and I saw you tensing up where you're like fuck cuz now the story is gonna end and

2:47:21This is the worst part of it. Yeah, yeah, but the what what happens is whether you're an addict or not people die and Everybody everybody everybody everybody dies and And People leave these beautiful imprints on us and like especially with the traumatic nature of of Brian's death It has transformed me in ways that like I can't even it couldn't explain quickly right now, but like Yeah, I feel like I feel like navigating Brian's death has has brought me to like my true my true most most pure expression of self I spent my whole life like disintegrated from myself and running from Like who I am and trying to cover it up and like through processing the loss of Brian it's sort of like

2:48:22unearthed and like brought me down to bare bones and brought me like into right relationship with who I am and like what is important and what Life is and like it's an honor to have spent time with him and like to be transformed by his life even after he's gone You know definitely and I think the other the other piece of that is like it's not like some people don't die Everyone dies. So if we all die maybe that's a fact, right maybe everything that dies There you go, so Jacob's back So put your makeup on put your hair up pretty and meeting tonight in Atlantic City So you're gonna you're gonna go you're gonna go to the Atlantic City tonight. Yeah, I am you gamble on no all right Good Um, and I think that's but I think that's a very beautiful place to it's way more beautiful than yet happens You know and I'm like like get something out of it honor honor our friends like and and and try to prevent unnecessary like premature death and then also you have the chance to experience love again and like yeah

2:49:27Life again, and like do your thing. Yeah, and not fuck it up right right. Yeah, we'll see how that goes I have been so traumatized that I haven't let another person come anywhere close to me for the last four years But I'm like ready to but I just I think that I think we'll cross that bridge Yeah, when you when you're supposed to Well listen, thank you for coming. It's a total honor for me. Oh, thanks for having me You better for me to honestly she come to dopey cons. I'm gonna try just get fish to the Saturday night go go Friday and Sunday Okay, you know, all right. Yeah, all right very good. Thank you. Thank you All right, that was Leah the hippie girl in the heart-brenching branching heart-brenching yet Still I think a classic classic classic old-timey episode of dopey. Please let me know what you thought about Leah Please send in emails and voicemails if you're using go to safe spot call them at 1-800-97205-90 if you're using and you want to keep using

2:50:37If you're using in your shooting heroin or fentanyl and you're scared of dying you call 1-800-97205-90 and they will stay on the phone with you And if you overdose they'll call an ambulance and they will attempt to save your life And I don't think anybody that's called has died also if you're dying and you want to make stickers You go to custom stickers.com and they make the cheapest the best high-quality stickers that come very quickly They might come before safe spot does use the code dopey 20 And it will save you 20% off your order and Listen, we don't often get a guest like hunter Biden So I think it's very important to read the Spotify comments even though it's this late in the show And a lot of you won't care But I am gonna read the Spotify comments because that's what I do and if you leave the Spotify comment And I read your comment you get F**king um stickers stickers are good. Who doesn't like stickers

2:51:41And if you want to be stickers just write me on get you know the little comments if you don't want to but we love the comments Especially me All right Kirby says when I first saw the episode I was like oh right ha ha You and Chris used to put celebrity names in the episode title and then say not really lol Wow, you really did get hunter Biden and got him to give us all the real dopey Uh bucky with or Becky and with the good fat says trauma is the ultimate gateway drug and it doesn't discriminate wonderful episode. Thank you Becky melanie said excellent interview Dave you doing an outstanding job of meeting a guest where they're at With your tone and approach you facilitate great conversations well done Thank god the god shot at the end beautiful. I love that. Yeah me too. It's amazing. Thank you Mel Tyler Garner says insane how knowledgeable hunter is on addiction and recovery He seems pretty intelligent in general great episode. Thanks Tyler. Nobody fucking complained about him I don't think miss Megan Mergetroyd says I'm constantly saying

2:52:45What hunter said about addicts being resilient intelligent resourceful etc when the apocalypse goes down. I want to be in the name meeting Christopher 1726 says great show Oh this motherfucker, but for the love of god Please stop interrupting your guests. Oh, give me a break dude miss Megan Mergetroyd says I've listened Back to episode one. It's his thing his stick if you will well. Thanks Megan Daniel O'Day says it's pronounced stick very good Mesa Pipsqueak says last week I had thought I bet Dave could totally get Hunter Biden on the show and here we are. Yes, Mesa you are You are very very a good predictor of guests who's next? Who's coming next Mesa Pipsqueak is the question send in an email or a voicemail a voicemail would be nice to dopey podcast at gmail.com Cat or wall says this is the first time I've heard someone mention that they just couldn't do weed

2:53:49I was exactly the same. I could do enough hard stuff to kill a horse But two hits of pot. Forget about it spelled faggot about it Faggot if I get about it Great interview Dave. Thank you for all you do. Thank you cat or wall Jordan says great interview, but Didn't have a pot to piss in hard to believe hunter Daniel O'Day says the hyperbolic weaponization of hunter's affliction was used for political advantage I feel like that red and million burrows was would be great It makes me sad addicts and the public eye are used by the people who make money off their desperation It reminds me of starving people in ancient Rome put in stocks and laughed at mocked and violated for stealing food Like if Larry Clark directed the opening scene of Disney's Aladdin That's a that's an idea Thanks for allowing us to see him as a human instead of a late-night punchline Kicking Wang said so hunter's chill is how super good interview very inspiring. Thank you kicking Wang

2:54:54Mutual gringo says amazing second sentence out of his mouth I'm still a crackhead. So cool. You got him to come on agreed Michael canny says really glad you got this Hunter was heavily vilified, but he's been preaching a lot of good recovery Since he came back into the public spotlight Craig M says this show was great interviews great hunter was great Dave was great and probably the best game of this or that ever ending the show With hunter unwilling to choose Trump over Hitler chefs kiss thanks Craig I love all this praise J.M. Blood says amazing show you killed it Dave and great job hunter awesome episode I think the real star though is the guy from West Virginia at the when at the end Hot damn diggy. What a jam great job dude your music rocks. That's awesome. I'm gonna send that to Jake That Mexican OB says this podcast run has made hunter more relatable

2:55:56But he seems to have gotten some really good media training He will talk about his privilege his art praise his chick Take some mild shots at Trump The gun question likely won't be asked and anything about the Ukraine corruption Will bring out some Jedi mind tricks. I find him more likeable But he is still on some tell them what they want to hear junky shit Dude going on podcasts. It's all it's that's all of it and I'm not I mean I wish I had asked about the gun I'm not interested in the other stuff and Yeah, but I think he owned He didn't own any international stuff, but because I didn't ask anything But he really did with his family, which I thought was really good John says we all know what happened with the gun shit though He lied about using narcotics on the gun forms who gives a shit 90% of people say no On those forms lol. He's talked about it on other podcasts recently though if you look it up

2:56:58He's here to share his recovery journey. This is a drug and alcohol recovery show. That's right John Glennis says to absolute legends love this and great job Dave. Thanks, Clintus It's Clintus is a lot of the reason why it went so well. So thank you Geno says dude is this happening? I just push play. Please tell me you really got hunter on Dave You did it can't wait to weigh in on this one. Ha ha ha. Yes. This is one of the first things I saw when I woke up this morning and I was like hell yeah, that's our Dave. Thanks Bootsie, okay Geno says well, Dave you did it. You got more dopey out of him than anyone. I've heard so far Pretty good stuff. I hate how likable he is I spent so much time despising him judging him whole the whole time he was actually staying sober lol He's tough to nail down. You did great Brad Pitt. You're next. I got to send a voicemail Yeah, Geno sent a fucking voicemail John says hunters the man good job Dave Lucy Roman says shut the fuck up

2:57:58Haven't listened yet but congrats on scoring this interview Heidi LaRou says kudos all Takas Tato Track says he would be a lot easier to listen to if he had convinced his dad to step aside Then give someone else a fighting chance in the election rather than doing the opposite in his own interests Here we go Mikey says wild Eliza says amazing interview and I say we got it done under three hours So if you're still listening send in an email or voicemail And we could use some good dopey stories. We could use emails voicemails celebrations complaints whatever It's what ends Anyway when I say it's a pleasure to make the dopey show. I mean it from the bottom of my heart Stay strong dopey nation and fucking tutels for Chris. I'm doing a cover of good so bad Because it was on the first episode I ever listened to and it made me want to get clean

2:59:00Um, I tried to record this a lot of times and I'm missing dopey zoom right now because I can I don't want to stop until I fucking get it right um God help me here we go um I want to take a walk around the world I wonder if it'll do me any good Until I get some money in my pocket Then I guess I'll just have to walk around my neighborhood

3:00:04And I want to be good so bad I want to be good so bad so bad I want to be good so bad I'm bad so bad so bad And I want to take a ride up in the sky And watch the arrow plays just pass me by And I want to see a lighter take a dive Just to show all of these people what it means to be alive

3:01:10And I want to be good so bad I want to be good so bad so bad I want to be so good so bad I'm bad I've got desires all I ever had Oh I want to be good so bad so bad Yeah I want to be good so bad I want to be good so bad so bad

3:02:14Bad desires all I ever had Okay I fucked up at the end there but I'm missing dopey zoom right now So that's going to be my last take I really hope that's okay I'm going to listen to it and fucking Join the dopey zoom Thank you Toodles