466 | Early Spring New River Smallmouth Fishing Secrets Revealed

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Good evening everybody.

Welcome back to Monday Night Live.

It has been a while.

And now that we are finally, finally,

finally here into spring season,

everything is starting to detall.

All of our smallmouth rivers are starting to flow finally.

And we are six days away from daylight saving his time.

I have on the man, the myth, the legend,

Ethan Stone of New River Guide Service.

He is in the place that I finally always call Jurassic Park

because it is compared to the rest of Virginia and Maryland.

It's very rural.

And you can catch some freaking dinosaurs.

So we're going to be talking about some spring fishing here

and what the New River is up to.

And so as always, with these Monday Night Lives,

I'm giving away gift cards to Tactical Fishing Company

and Jake's bait and tackle.

So please, please, please, please, please,

get your good questions in there.

I will let you know at the end of the stream

what the good questions are

and then message me after the show

and you can get your gift card.

So without further ado, the man, the myth, the legend,

Ethan, how are you doing tonight, sir?

Hey Thomas, good. How are you?

I am doing wonderful, my man.

How has life been down there right now

as we're getting out of winter into spring?

It's been good.

I mean, it's been cold here.

Like it's been everywhere.

Kind of one of the colder winter's I can remember,

especially kind of late January and February

with all the snow and ice and stuff.

But we kind of thought out the ice

melted off the river about two weeks ago.

I was on the river the last three days.

I have my first guide trip coming up on Thursday

and then after that, it's kind of full go all ahead.

What do you do in the off season to kind of prepare?

I mean, and for people that don't know,

what is your technical off season?

I guide for small mouth through about the middle of November.

And then I work hard.

I work a lot of days between March and mid November.

So I kind of take the holiday season off,

and then I kind of do the fishing shows like you do.

In January, we did three fishing shows.

And then February, man, I love to fish.

February is usually kind of my time

that I get to go out and fish for myself.

And I mean, there are good February's this year.

Obviously, you couldn't hardly get out at all.

And then just kind of a lot of maintenance,

just making sure not only your fishing gear,

but my raft and trailer, making sure everything's good to go,

because once you get doing five, six trips a week,

you can't really afford equipment malfunction,

putting you behind schedule.

How, so Travis Eden of Shenandoah,

who I've been friends with for the past like five or six years, man,

he's been doing what you do with a raft forever, like 50 plus years.

Do you plan on, do you want perfect world

to do seven days a week?

Or do you try to have like a rest day

to like drink some electrolytes?

Like what is a good happy mix?

I take a few rest days, a few.

Once I start on Thursday,

I only have two days off until the end of March.

And then I'm booked up, I think all,

but four or five days in April,

and I'm not really looking for more bookings.

I'm going to keep those days off,

but I mean, you just, I mean, you have to be smart,

but you also, I mean, that's part of like we were just saying.

I kind of give myself a couple months off, you know,

so you got to work hard for the other time, you know.

And just, I mean, I have some great clients,

a bunch of great people, a ton of great people

that I love fishing with and the new reverse,

just such a special place in the spring.

It's hard for, sometimes I'll be like,

I'm not booking any more days in March,

and then somebody I really like is like,

you know, you got anything in March, I wonder.

And I have a hard time saying no, sometimes,

but you just got to be smart.

I mean, I don't, I don't push it.

I come home, eat my dinner, get some rest, you know,

just being smart.

And getting that, I have an outboard on my raft now

and that helps a ton.

I mean, just kind of the wind, I mean,

the wind just kills you, being able to,

if it's just low and upstream 15 miles an hour,

being able to just motor on through it.

And, you know, just some big long dead holes,

just motor and through, that's made a big difference.

If you guys don't know,

please just type in new river fishing

because we come up on Google like in the first three or four,

I've had Ethan on a couple of times.

So we're gonna do a couple of basic softball questions

that have been mentioned a thousand times

on previous shows, but with the new river,

for people that aren't familiar with it,

what would be a quick little sit rep

on the new river compared to like other places in Virginia?

Just big fish, I mean, a ton of big fish,

I'm not sure if you saw the article that DWR

came out recently with like the citation tallies

by river for small mouth, you know,

the new was first at like 130.

And the James was next with less than 50.

I mean, my boat saw 138 citations last year, you know?

I mean, not all citations get registered.

I know the true number of citations in the new

was way, way, way, way more than 130.

But even so on that data set, you know,

just even in the registered citations

that the new has 130 in second place

is all the way down at 48,

just kind of tells you what you need to know.

And, you know, probably less people fishing than new.

You know, probably less anglers, you know, per,

so for it to still have such a lead is pretty amazing.

And just like multitudes of good water,

I mean, like we regularly fish about 70 miles of river

and it is all good water, just it's real good habitat.

So, yeah.

It's, you guys don't know.

I'll put a link in the episode description.

I also had the biologist on last year

to do their sampling of the new river.

And it's crazy because I call it Jurassic Park

and I mean that in a very loving way

because it is rural and the fish that are that old,

they're dinosaurs and it's crazy.

The scenery compared to the James

in certain other places is them.

You guys know, I live close to Epipatomic,

which is wild because it's between Washington, D.C.

and the richest counties in the world.

And when you get on the water, it's crazy

because surrounded by cities but there, this place, remote,

it doesn't usually get the same amount of pressure.

When it comes to the fishing pressure though,

are there a lot of tournaments that happen in this time

or during the year on the new

or do you have it pretty much to yourself?

I mean, there's like a few people that do kayak tournaments,

a few people that do like John Boat tournaments.

But there's not a ton of fishing pressure,

especially on weekdays.

And I don't know.

I think I kind of have a unique advantage in the raft

because like the John Boat and Jet Boat people

are cut off from a few certain areas of the river

that just have too many rapids and riffles.

And then the kayakers can fish some of that water

but it's hard for them to fish big stretches of river

like I do and cover a lot of water like I do.

So it's kind of the best of both worlds in the raft.

Is it more kayaking pressure or jet boat pressure?

I know up where I'm at,

where you're getting it up,

we're talking about the Susquehanna jet boat country.

Is that a thing down there?

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it is.

It honestly depends where on the river you're fishing.

There's like some big long kind of easy water

that's really popular with the jet boats

and then there's some areas that are kind of really shallow

and those are popular with the kayakers.

But there's both jet boats and kayaks for sure.

That's crazy.

It is, if you guys are watching this down the road,

it is the second day of March basically

when we're doing this video.

Right now, what is the water temperature

that you're kind of seeing and what was the ice like

up where I'm at like the Susquehanna

for all my Patreon supporters?

Literally frozen solid.

So I fished the past few days before today.

Yesterday, it was about 41 when we started fishing

and it was about 44 and a half when we ended.

The day before I fished a section

that runs a little warmer usually

and it got to 46 by the end of the day.

Today was cold, real cold here.

So it'll probably blunt back down.

But I was telling you before the show,

I mean, it's starting about this Thursday.

It's like 70 degrees for a long time,

like the week and that'll get things going real fast.

And the ice, like you said, I mean, the ice,

we had like the longest stretch of super cold temperatures

that I can really remember since I was living here

and it is rare for the river to freeze like completely.

I mean, I haven't seen it in like the seven or eight years

I've been guiding, you know, we'll get like the ice

on the edges where it's like kind of hard

to launch a boat or anything.

But I mean, there was no open water for a while this year

which is uncommon.

That's wild.

Well, what does a question that I got,

I saw in a couple of comments sections,

is what does ice do to the fish?

Does it hurt them?

Does it affect how quickly the pre-spons

starts to get into motion?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it like affects,

I mean, it all comes down to like water temperature

with the pre-spons.

So it really depends on like the weather you get

after the ice, you know, I mean,

it'd have to be pretty dog on warm to get the water

from when it's frozen, you know,

to when they want to be in pre-spons.

But I wouldn't say like, I'd say if you had a late ice

and then like a crazy warm front,

it wouldn't, it wouldn't push the pre-spons back in general.

But in terms of ice, like I don't think it,

it makes too much of a difference,

except I've heard my, my toe god here

at New River Outdoor Company,

Britt Stautamire, who's been guiding a long time.

He, he always claims that like the biggest,

worst fish kill he ever saw on the news,

because of ice that like immediately went into a flood.

He said we had like a super cold winter, like this winter.

And then the, the weeks on end of cold was broken up

by like a three or four inch rain storm

that rained on a bunch of snow

that was still on the ground.

He said the river went from like frozen over

to flood stage, like almost instantly.

And he said they were like big like ice chunks,

like churnin' and churnin' up the river.

And I think he said that was in 2008.

And he said the couple years after that

were some of the slowest years of fish.

And he experienced, he kind of says he thinks

it's so good the past few years

because we've gotten far enough away from that 2008 winter

that he says was so hard on.

So I don't think, I don't think ice that,

that I think the river could totally free solid.

And as long as it just kind of naturally melts away

instead of getting like pushed and churned away

by a big flood of water, I don't think it matters, really.

That is really cool.

So we do have a question here on the old Instagram,

which is how does this warming trend affect the power bite?

Which is what he said.

I'm thinking he's saying power fishing bites.

So chatterbaits, swim jigs.

Are you still dinking and dunking once the ice

like goes away or can you actually start really leaning

into them?

I mean, like I said, the water is about 44 now.

We were kind of catching them.

We were catching them on jerkbaits,

but mainly on jigs on the bottom earlier this week.

But consistently over 45 degree water temperatures,

what I look for for like a really good power fishing bite.

They'll bite a crankbait for sure below 45.

And that's wild.

But for something like a chatterbait or like a mag draft,

like I like to throw, I kind of wait until 45,

so those few degrees make that much of a difference.

They do.

They do.

Yeah, I mean it.

If you think about it, like you know,

I start throwing top water when it's in like the low 50s.

You know, and when it's 40, it's like they'll only hit

jigs and tubes, you know?

So I mean, you're looking at like the full spectrum

almost, you know, separated by like 12 degrees of water

temperature.

So it does make make a lot of difference.

But kind of my go like the 45 to 55 is go time

free spawn on the new, you know, before 45,

it's kind of more of like a cold water winner bite,

which can be good.

I mean, it can be good, but it's usually more of those

winter patterns.

And then once it gets about 55,

that tends to kind of not be good for the fish

and during the free spawn.

But if it gets really, yeah, if it gets about 55

before the fish spawn, it's like they,

it's just like they lose their aggression.

They just kind of get real lazy.

You'll get a bunch of short strikes.

So I'm excited for this warming trend,

but I generally like it to stay pretty cool

because it drags out that free spawn window for longer.

Why do you think that is?

Why do you think that that huge jump in temperature

basically turns the bite off?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's always been weird to me.

It's just like, it's like it's just like that get lazy.

It's, it's, people will probably be arguing with me

in the comments section about this.

And you know, my experience is mainly with the new river,

you know, so I'm not going to speak to all bodies of water.

But I'm a believer that kind of like fish spawn,

water temperature is a factor, but it's not the biggest factor.

Like I think fish really key on,

key in on length of day and on moon fades to spawn.

If it's real, real cold, I mean, it might push them back a little bit,

but like a lot of people say like fish will start spawning

at this water temperature.

And I don't think that's true.

I mean like fish know, I mean, we all know the weather pattern,

you know, the like fake spring, you know,

the real early warm front that warms the water up

and then it knocks it back down.

Fish know that that happens too.

You know, fish kind of know what time of year it is

based on length of day, you know, length of daylight

it gets longer and longer.

So fish, I mean, fish know if it's unseasonably warm,

and they're not going to want to go up and spawn

when they know the days are still real short,

even though the water temperature is, you know, warm.

So in my experience, fish on the new river,

they spawn almost the same time every year.

Like no matter if it's been a cold year or warm year,

it's like the same time.

And it's just, it's a weird bite to me

when the water gets too warm before that time of year

that they come up to spawn.

It's almost like they're like, okay, I've fed up enough,

now I'm just going to kind of wait here

until I'm ready to spawn.

But if it stays cold, they'll feed like all the way through,

you know, when they spawn.

So that's just what I've experienced here.

I think with a lot of people in the year 45 to 50 degrees,

they still think it's bone chillingly cold

unless you're a river at.

How long do you give a hole before you move?

And it's, you're in it, so you understand that,

but for people that don't quite understand it,

because they think that cold water,

you're sitting in one spot all day long,

how long should you give a spot if you're new to it?

Yeah, it just kind of depends on,

you know, if you said if it's a new spot,

you know, if you have history with the spot

and you're like, there's always fish here,

you know, you probably want to spend a long time.

This time of year, when it's this cold,

you got to make a few casts, you know,

I mean, it depends on the size of the area you want to fish.

A kind of trick of the trade is, like,

analyze how the fish are biting.

If you're fishing a hole and you get a bite,

and it's like a good, hard, like, wow, that one really hit it.

I usually think that then there's more fish around,

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Tell them, I sent you.

There's probably other fish around.

And even if you don't catch another fish on that bait,

you might want to change baits or something, you know?

Actually, yesterday I was fishing with my buddy,

John, and we had a rough, rough start to the day.

We ended up catching about 25 fish,

but we only had two fish by like one, 30 or two o'clock.

And we rolled into a spot and he was throwing a jig.

And it was a tight, I mean, it was a tight eddy

about the size of like a dinner table.

And he threw his jig on in there and he was like,

wow, it smoked it.

And I was like, I bet you you're gonna catch

another one out of there.

And I mean, we caught three fish in like five hours.

And he was like, really?

And I was like, totally.

And he threw back in there and caught another one

on the next cast, you know?

So when you get one of those hits that's like,

man, that was a good hit.

Usually that means that there's other fish around.

There you guys have it.

So there's a little bit of a science to it, definitely.

But also just be, don't be afraid to move around.

And the fact that they will actually hit moving baits

at that cold temperature or something,

I think you should take credence to.

And also the size of the eddy,

like I think it's crazy.

Sometimes on the upper Potomacishando,

like a stick, a rock.

And the eddy is the size of your forearm.

But then you also have those others

that are like the size of a freaking Ford F-150.

And that will dictate, I think,

how much time it's been spent.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, there's some spots that it just, you're like,

oh yeah, that's a two-cast spot, you know?

I mean, like, yeah.

Let's see.

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And he goes on to something there.

Okay, there you go.

How much do you think, and we got B-Cal here?

Guys, get all your questions in at the end of the show.

I will let you guys know who won a gift card, by the way.

How much do you think the water temperature will rise

by next Monday?

Um, I mean, so on the new river,

by next Monday, that's like,

you're gonna be three or four days of 70s.

I'd say it'll be, if it was 40,

if it topped out at 44 yesterday, I'd say by Monday,

you don't be topping out at about 50.

But, like, the new river takes a long time to warm up

because we're a tailwater.

Our water is coming from out of the dam at Clayton Lake.

And it's coming from the bottom of the lake.

So it's like, the water that's coming through the river

is the bottom of the lake, where it's insulated from the,

from the heat up, you know?

So it will heat up in that, in that warm temperature,

but it's, the new river takes a lot longer

to warm up in the spring, and it stays warmer

for the same reason in the fall, you know?

Cause, cause it's kind of insulated from the weather changes.

So the new river upstream of Clayton Lake

is a lot warmer right now,

because it's just like truly like river water,

you know, whereas we're getting kind of like deep lake water.

What's also fascinating about that is floods

because I feel like because of the dam,

it actually kind of helps with that.

Like it takes a long time for that part of the river

to blow out comparatively, right?

Compared to if there was no dam.

Yeah, I mean, it will.

It does a lot less than other rivers in Virginia.

I mean, obviously if it's a bad flood,

they don't want the lake flooding,

so they move water out.

But like little like pop up rain storm,

like those heavy summertime real heavy one day storms

don't really blow our river out.

Cause the lake kind of eats up and clears the water out

before it comes to us.

So yeah.

Yeah, because I remember last year,

I felt like from like April to like June,

at least up where we're at the Shenandoah Upper Potentment,

it was always high in muddy,

like constantly cause it just never stopped.

And I didn't know like if you guys kind of experienced that.

Yeah, I know.

So we're lucky like I would talk into people

that said they hadn't been able to fish for like two months

on the Shenandoah and the Potentment, you know.

And I think I only lost like knock on wood.

I think I only lost like two or three days

to high water last year.

That's so yeah.

You know, that is so crazy.

What is that like you said with that with the spawn?

With how the new river sets up,

what is considered spawning habitat for them?

Like the Susquehanna, it's creeks,

it's the back of islands.

Does the new river even have any islands

for them to get back up under?

Yeah, yeah.

We got islands, back islands is a good spot.

We don't really have as many of the creeks

like the Susquehanna does,

but just like they like that hard rock bottom,

like anywhere from like three to six, seven-ish feet.

And they really, I mean, they like being in an eddy

and they like being in like a solid eddy.

And what I mean by that is like an eddy

that would still be an eddy if the water came up, you know.

So like maybe if there's a piece of rock

that's sticking this far out of the water

that's causing an eddy,

they wouldn't like to be in behind that as much as they like

to be behind like an eight foot boulder, you know.

They like spots that they know they're gonna be protected

if the river really rises, you know.

Behind like real sturdy solid cover.

Like an island.

What is my view of saying, yeah.

Like an island.

Is it, is flow rate or turbidity

something that you look at more?

Like which one do you put more stock in?

I mean, they're highly correlated, you know.

I mean, in general, the higher flow rates

gonna be a higher turbidity in general

with exceptions.

But I mean, I like a high flow rate

and I like a pretty high turbidity too,

especially in the pre spawn.

I mean, it just like,

I mean, in the pre spawn, the fish want to eat.

I mean, they want to eat and feed up, you know.

And the things that'll hold them back from eating

are like them feeling not safe and secure, you know.

Maybe because it's supersonic, bright, you know.

I mean, on the new river, the bass are predators

but they're also prey, you know.

I mean, there's muskie, there's eagles, the ospreys, you know.

When it's supersonic, low and clear, you know,

they're a little scared to come out too far from cover.

They can see your bait matter,

they can see the line better.

So I like when the water's high

and it's a little turbid, you know,

because then they're not scared to come out,

they want to feed up before the spawn.

What depth do they usually inhabit this time of year?

Are they in the deep wintering holes?

Are they starting to move up?

They'll be starting to move up some.

I mean, they're kind of venturing out

of the winter holes at the warmest parts of the day

but after that, more in front next week,

they'll be really moving up.

And the winter, like in the winter

and really early spring, like right now,

I do a lot better towards the end of the day

because that's like the peak,

that's when the water temperature will like peak for the day,

you know.

So like I said, the other day it was 41 in the morning

when we got on, 45, you know, when we took off.

Obviously they're going to bite better at 45 and 41.

So I'm kind of dreading this time change

to be honest because, you know, right now,

the best bite is like the last hour or so of light,

which is like four to five and 430 to 530.

And now that's going to be whole hour later, 530 to 630.

But yeah.

When does the morning bite become a thing, you think?

Is it really May, June, July plus?

The first crack of daylight becomes a thing.

Once the water gets like,

once the water gets consistently above 45 degrees,

they stop worrying about like the water temperature

really at all.

Like if the morning starts above 45 degrees,

you know, that's good.

And the morning always is going to have an advantage

because it's like a low light time, you know.

So like I kind of said earlier,

it seems like about 45 degrees on the new rivers,

this like magic switch where they like stop

being worried about being cold.

So in a few weeks, when the days start

above 45 degree water temperature, that would be,

you know, that's when the morning bite starts to be good.

Especially when it's not that cold overnight, you know.

I mean, you'll get those 28 to 30 degree nights

like way late into April here sometimes.

And those are usually a rough bite in the morning.

But if it stays pretty warm overnight,

that can be a good time.

All right, guys.

As always, please, please, please, get your comments

and best comment on the night.

I'll let you guys know the back.

I've won a couple of gift cards here.

We got, oh, I'm gonna start on the old Instagram,

get some of these dialed in here.

We got CM, go on.

What are your top five baits and colors for this time of year?

Five baits and color.

If you don't have them, just go with your top.

Good question.

I, I'll kind of go like late winter early spring.

My number one would probably be a jig.

Let's hear how I got.

I think I got some examples over here.

So this is like what I was catching them on yesterday.

Just kind of like your, your football jig and craw.

I mean, that's a good one there.

If they're, if the water's super clear,

if they're short strike in your jig,

I'll go to like a tube.

Well, y'all know what it is, but two are the,

the rival between the netrick and the tube

is something I always like to highlight on this channel

because it's my skin's versus cowboys.

Growing yesterday, just a little like two and three-quarter inch.

This is a blue rock tube jig and tube, jerk bait.

Jerk bait is so good, it's all spring.

I'm like the super early winter spring

all the way through the spawn.

Crank bait.

And then once the water gets a little warmer,

like 47, 48 degrees.

I love throwing that mag draft.

I love throwing a chatter bait, spinner bait.

All those, yep.

What's your tube set up?

So I love my ALX rods.

This is an ALX oxym trimmer.

This is a great rod.

It's like seven foot two, medium heavy.

It's really sensitive tip, but it's a really strong rod.

You can keep them out of those rock piles and ledges.

And then I run 10 pound braid to 12 pound fluorocarbon

and then either a quarter or a three eighth ounce jig head

with your tube on it either.

I usually throw a little one because I almost always throw

a little one because if I'm throwing a big one,

I'd rather throw a jig instead if that makes sense.

Like the reason I'm throwing a tube

is to be more finesse than a jig.

So usually if I'm ever like, oh, I'd throw a bigger tube,

I'd probably actually just switch to a jig.

And this is also important for Puyla, I don't know.

What is the new river, the new river like topography wise?

Because I always, I joke like the Susquehanna

is like a mile wide, but an inch deep.

Is that kind of like what the new river is like for Puyla, don't know?

It's deeper, I'd say, and not quite as wide.

But it just has so many different topographies.

I mean, there's some like real long slow pools

and then there's some like really quick, riftly ledges.

You got big class three rapids in some spots.

Really defined by those rock ledges

all throughout the river well.

All right.

All right, guys, we're going to get through

all your questions here because we got 1,000 of them.

Right now we got like 60 people watching

on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.

We got Jake.hamfishing.

What are the ramp conditions like that you put in

slash take out at are are they a traditional boat ramp

or more of a drop off to the river on the side of the road?

A lot of them are more traditional boat ramps.

We got a ton of good state access points on the new.

There's a few little spots that I like to use

where you just kind of throw in,

but over the 70 miles of river that I fish,

there's 10 plus good solid concrete boat ramps.

All right.

Can Cameron Johnson 73-47?

Is there any fish or crawl?

You would add to the new river to make the fish bigger

if you could.

Is there anything illegal that you would do

to make the fishing better?

In a hypothetical situation.

No, I don't really think that there is.

We've got bait fish.

I would say the new is more of like a crawl

and macro invertibit, macro invertibit kind of fishery.

I mean, we have a few schools of bait fish,

but I think they really key in on those craws.

They eat a lot of like sculpins, like the stone cats.

But I kind of like the way it is.

I think it sets itself up good to like power fishing.

I think, you know, if we had big schools of shad

or shiners, it would almost make the fish

a little weirder.

But.

Yeah, and then I know people are going to clip this piece here,

but I know, and Jake Hartstrom is going to say this,

but pound for pound, the new river has bigger fish

than the Susquehanna when it comes to 20 plus inch fish.

You know, let's look at the data points.

The Susquehanna has a ton of fish in that mid range,

like up to 18 to 20 inches.

The new river has a ton over that.

So I just, I don't know what else you need to do.

Plus you have the rustic crawfish or the rusty crawfish.

So you have that massive lobster

that provides great food for them.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I agree.

I mean, I have a lot of clients that do a trip

with me every year and a trip on the Susquehanna every year.

And they kind of say that their trip with me is,

is they feel like they have a better chance

than a 20 plus inch or, but that they trips up there,

usually just insane quantities of fish, you know.

It's so cool.

And then again, one last thing you don't know,

new rivers had like three state records,

Virginia and West Virginia, like it has them historically.

It does already have monsters in it.

Yep.

All right, let's see.

Oh, here we go.

Aaron J4793, even what temp,

do you personally start throwing topwater?

I start throwing it pretty early.

It was pretty cool, but the first fish I caught on topwater

last year was barely, didn't touch 22 inches

and was right at five pounds.

Like the first one I caught on topwater.

But I looked for maybe 52, 53 degrees.

And the first topwater bait I start throwing

every year is a popper.

And it almost is like a jerkbait a little bit.

Like if you know, if you see the fish really moving up

shallow, like less than two feet,

if you just notice you're catching them real, real shallow,

that popper is good.

And if you kind of know where a fish probably is,

you can just keep that popper there so long.

You know, I mean, you can just give it a hard pop

and then just pause it.

And so usually the popper is the first topwater bait.

I start catching them on and I look for maybe 52, 53 degrees,

usually midish may,

then a buzzbait works real good pretty soon after that.

Right before they start spawning a buzzbait,

can you real good?

My question, is there a difference between a buzzbait

and a plopper style bait?

Cause I guess there's like 38 come as it has them now

or is it just one has trouble hooks, one doesn't?

And so right when I started guiding was like right

when the whopper plopper was like taking off.

I think.

Like when it first came out

and it was like the hottest thing for a while.

And I hardly throw them anymore.

Like I have completely come back to a buzzbait.

I think almost like every fish on the river

has been caught on a whopper plopper.

I mean, it's just, I mean, like every person you see

is throwing it, you know, I mean,

and I mean fish are smart, you know,

they remember how that thing looks underwater

and that it wasn't real, you know?

And I mean, they might not remember forever,

but you know, and also they're seeing the exact same

whopper plopper bubble trail probably coming over

them like five times a day, you know?

The only, this sounds like a little bit ridiculous.

But one of my favorite times to throw the whopper plopper

now is first thing in the morning

in the middle of the summer, fish come like so shallow.

And if you throw that big whopper plopper

and it lands near them, it just scares them so bad

that they hit it a lot of the time.

And like on the new river, I hardly catch a fish

on a whopper plopper after like the first three cranks.

And so I almost completely switched mine out

with a buzzbait, and I just think the buzzbait

has gotten like so underutilized now

that it's like back kind of, you know?

And they know it's different.

I mean, I usually throw one of those like,

like I don't have one right now in my bag,

but I throw like the skirtless one,

you know, just where you put a plastic on it.

And that looks a lot different than a whopper plopper

to a fish in the water, you know?

I mean, they know that those are two different baits.

Yeah, again, it's the dichotomy between the angler

and the fish where the fish knows with them.

We just get so set in our ways, it's wild.

And I get like the comparison like trouble,

I've had this argument forever,

like the trouble hooked by versus doing the buzzbait,

short strikes and all that other stuff,

but I agree with you.

Like Cliff Bennett, who's a big river rat up where are,

he thinks it is, it's fear.

It's like within the first few cranks,

you're in that skinny, riffle water in the summertime

and you just hit them with that helicopter blade

over their head and they react to it versus the buzzbait.

But guys, good question.

So David, you definitely, let's see.

Okay, here we go.

We got a question here.

This is gonna be a good gift card question.

David Vandoren, what's a good stretch to run a jet boat?

There's a few good tools to run a jet boat.

There's all through like the town of Radford, Virginia,

it's easy jet boat and water.

There's a big really popular boat ramp,

white throwing boat ramp that's almost kind of like,

it has a few like riffles and ledgers

that are easy to run in there,

but you can run multiple miles and both directions.

The right up on Virginia DWR website

is very informative about kind of what areas

are easier for the jet boats and others.

I think guys, on Instagram,

I'll get to you guys question in a minute.

There's a pilot up as well.

Let's see, you've got another one here.

Oh, the bag chatter's 10.

Is there ever a time that you will fish straight braid

to a glide bait?

I don't, not really know.

You probably could if the water was stained enough,

but I usually fish my glides on fluorocarbon,

but yeah.

All right, let's keep on going here guys

through these things.

We got B-cow in the house.

What size jerk bait do you like to use?

I usually throw the big one if I'm like the normal size,

the normal one tin.

If it's like super, super clear water,

super high pressure in sunny,

I might go to the junior,

but I mean, I grew up large mouth fish

and more than small mouth fish and kind of,

I think like I'm glad I did,

because I think there's just like a little bit

of like a preconceived notion in small mouth fishing

that you gotta like do things smaller

than the large mouth guys do,

but like if you're fishing for three to six pounders,

you know, you're gonna throw the same thing

that you would for a three to six pound large mouth,

you know, I mean, my buddy John and I were joking yesterday.

Our best five went like 18 pounds yesterday or something

and we were joking it like how much better

we were doing than the last basalete series,

you know, where they were fishing for spots

and large mouth, you know,

so I just like, if you wanna catch big fish,

regardless of whether it's a small mouth

or a large mouth, I mean, you throw big baits.

So I really try not to downsize any of my presentations

unless the fish like absolutely like tell me that I need to,

whether it be not getting bites,

getting short strikes, getting follows, but not bites,

then I'll downsize, but I like to start,

I start almost every day like everything full size.

Hmm, there you guys have it.

Oh, let's see, I'll save those questions for last.

We have another one where's the other question.

We had another one about glide baits I thought I saw.

Oh, here we go, Lee Martins.

I heard you say you like to throw a mag draft.

Is there ever a consistent glide bait bite on the new river?

So that's like gonna be my new thing this year.

I've decided it is glide baiting.

I try to stay ahead of the curve the best I can

and I know people glide bait.

I'm not saying I'm ahead of a curve on glide baiting,

but just kinda in the new river, in small mouth guiding,

I don't see too many people do it.

And I kinda like the number one thing that kept me from doing it

for a long time was the musky.

I don't wanna get into buying expensive glide baits

with so many musky around, but one hook set.

Yeah, one hook set and you're gone,

but this year I was talking about the ALX rods.

They just came out with a new glide bait series,

the swimmer series, they got I think four different sizes

that they're all kinds of swim baits,

but yeah, I'm gonna really try glide baiting more this year.

I started doing it last fall and had some good luck on it.

So I kind of bought a few more kinds of glides,

got a better rod and reel for it.

And I'll go for it a little more this year

and have a better answer for that question next time, I guess.

But I know there'll be a consistent bite on it.

All right guys, we're gonna get over to Instagram

before we finish out the show here.

We got Kenek on, oh, so I guess someone's for me.

Kenek says, Thomas, what are your plans for 2026?

My plans for 2026 is to get ready for 2027.

My goal I told myself is I would really like to be

almost full time doing this so I can actually travel around

and actually hang out with all you guys,

but we need to make sure Patreon and my sponsorship list

is up, so that's overall the goal is to do that

because I'm tired of trying to hunt for a day job.

I just wanna do this.

So that's that.

Oh, see the next question is for Ethan,

Barry Sowers, where can I find the ALX rod you mentioned?

ALXRods.com or just Google ALX rods.

It'll be the first one that comes up.

You could use code ALX Ethan to get 10% off and check out

if you're interested, but I mean, I love my ALX rods,

they are.

What I like about them is there's just no guesswork.

Like every rod is made for something specific, you know,

so it's not like, like when you go to their website

and look, he has a great search tool where like,

you search what you're fishing with,

and then it like, it tells you what rods,

you know, work for that technique.

So it's not like looking at the website like,

should I be throwing an extra faster, just a fast?

You know, it's just like, he makes a rod

for a specific application and tells you in the description.

So it's kind of takes all the guesswork out of it.

Cody on Instagram asks, are you a two guy or a Nedra guy?

Every time I come on your show, somebody asks this.

Do I swear to God, it's a cult man it is.

It's like about to lose 50% of your viewership

and then I'm what I answer right here.

So I'll hit it right down the middle.

I like throwing a tube in the pre spawn

and an ad rig through the summer.

And that's like the actual answer.

Like I throw a tube when the water's cold

because I think the tube sits on the bottom better

and people are gonna be like a heavy Nedrig

who sits on the bottom fine.

But it just my experience like a tube

like sits on the bottom better

whereas a Nedrig is better for kind of like bouncing

in the current.

And so usually when they're out of the current in the eddies

in the winter and spring, I like throwing a tube

and then in the summer where it when the water is quicker

and I'm kind of drifting more in the current,

I throw a Nedrig.

And I actually think the Nedrig just like profile wise

is not the same as a tube.

A tube just seems bulkier.

I'll add this question.

Same setup though, rod wise and stuff

or do you go with the different setup

with a Nedrig versus a tube?

I usually throw my tubes on a little heavier rod

than I throw my Nedrigs just because I usually only throw

like a quarter or three eight bounce tube.

And then when I'm Nedrigging,

I usually throw in like the one 10 or the one eight

or something.

All right.

And then right down he's a fly fisherman.

Yeah, that's that's, I don't know

if that's hurtful or not.

I see if there's that big, that big old thing.

Oh, here's a good one.

Again, on Instagram, do you ever use a wire leader

to protect against Smusky?

I don't because I feel like it sacrificed

too many bass bites for you.

So I'll just stay there.

Now live with the consequences of my actions.

I'll tell my clients like I'm giving you this glide bait

under the agreement that if you see a musky tail in it,

you're just crank it straight in.

I don't think people appreciate you guys probably,

well, I think it's actually proven with biologists.

Like you have more musky like per acre than like the James does.

Like you have a ton of musky.

And then yeah, yeah, I think I'm not gonna have

the numbers quite right.

Yeah, it's survey a couple of years ago

where it was like three and a half per mile on the new

and one and a half per mile on the upper James.

And that I think was like 40 inches or 38 inches or something.

Not catch so many like 28 to 32 inches.

Like the kind that makes you think you got like a giant bass

for the first few seconds, you know.

I mean, with the big ones, you could usually tell pretty quick

it's a musky, but there's a lot of like,

30 inches that feel like it's gonna be a blast.

All right, let's see.

All right, guys.

Andrew,

you, Holman, 75, 11.

I'm sorry if I butchered it.

Just know your name is Andrew.

Any tips for those new to fly fishing on the new river?

Yeah, so we do guided fly trips too.

So Ryan said, I am a fly fisherman.

I am a little bit.

Really?

I recommend people come in the summertime.

That's when we do a bunch of, that's the most fun time.

I mean, they get on big topwater poppers, big topwater bugs,

get out in the ripples with some streamers and stuff,

but you can catch them all year, fly fishing on the new.

I mean, like the real, I mean, I'm sure some people would be like,

oh, you should be fly fishing in the free spawn.

And you can.

I mean, I think conventional is more successful than fly

in the free spawn, but there's times in the summer

where I think fly fishing can be just as productive as spin fishing.

I mean, not to, this is kind of a long-winded tangential story,

but go for it.

Like when Nolan, when my buddy Nolan won the,

won the Hobie on the Susquehanna,

I mean, we were talking well before the tournament,

like months before the tournament,

he was like river fishing in July,

like what do you do?

And I'm like, man, in July,

we catch some of our biggest fish on our fly fishing trips,

throwing big topwater bugs on the fly is like how we catch.

Like in July, I was like, I'd almost say you have,

as good of a chance fly fishing as you do spin fishing,

for a citation.

And that, I mean, I had never,

I've never been to the Susquehanna.

I was just kind of saying how it is on the new.

And so I mean, he did his research on kind of what baits

are similar to like the type of flies that we throw

and he found that gizmo.

And then that was his bait that he like wanted on.

So I mean, that fly fishing in the summer,

anything that mimics, I mean,

the water gets low and clear

and they're just looking for something ultra realistic.

So those topwater bugs that we throw, you know,

qualify as such.

Well, unlike largemouth,

and maybe this is true for largemouths,

when I extend, but not the same as smallmouth,

elephants eat peanuts.

I'll nukes some advice, like some stuff.

Like the micro TRD, Nedrig and Tiny Tube in black matches

larvae hatches better than anything on the planet.

And it's just, it's tiny as crap.

And on some of our rivers around here,

the Shenandoah Potomac,

it for some reason works better in the summertime.

Don't know why.

I just, I really think it has to do something

about the way the larvae work.

But those bigger smallmouth will freaking key in on those bites.

It's just why I would think something that big

would eat something so small.

But they do.

Well, to expand on what you're saying.

Like right now in the pre spawn,

the fish want to eat, like they want to eat.

And they need to eat, you know,

they need to, they're wanting to gain like a half a pound

or a pound before the spawn,

which is in a month and a half, you know.

So you can really like take advantage of that

by throwing like big baits,

because like they, they're, they need to feed.

And the summer, like you're saying,

their metabolism gets so, so low.

And they almost come, become,

I mean, they need to eat to survive,

but they, they are losing weight.

You know, in the spring, they're gaining a pound,

a pound and a half.

And the, in the summer, they're losing weight,

like crazy, you know.

So that, what becomes more important to them in the summer,

because they're kind of indifferent on eating.

So like, it's like something that really fools them

in the summertime, you know, is more effective.

Whereas I feel like you don't want to be stuck

doing that finesse thing in the pre spawn,

because the fish are like wanting to just,

getting like, gorge themselves, you know.

So it is crazy, like the difference of baits

you throw this year, this time of year

versus what you'll throw in the summer.

And you're right, huge fish do eat peanuts,

especially in the summer.

It's also like the conditions.

I think when you get that chalky cold water,

I heard the wives tell that I still believe

that the cold water affects their eyesight

or something, that's why they hit umbrella rigs in February,

but not usually July.

Don't know if that's true or not.

But when you get those really clear drought conditions,

and you have a 15 year old small mouth,

that sucker has seen everything.

And it, it, it knows that there's larvae hatches.

And when you throw an underspin

or something different, sometimes it fools it,

but most of the time, it's like, I know that's not real.

Yeah.

You know, I don't know, but at least it makes sense

when you throw a fly and every big small mouth

in the dam river system is like, yeah, I'll chew on that,

but not the water flopper.

But I mean, other reason that's a bad example

for the water flopper not working.

I got a question here, and this is way wrong year.

But anyway, I'm gonna do this one here with phantom fusion 69.

Does night fishing ever work on small mouth rivers?

Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't do it as much as I should

because like I said earlier,

when you're fishing all day, every day,

you gotta, yeah, yeah.

But I mean, some, a bunch of people in this area do it,

and it, it supposedly works real well.

Yeah.

All right, guys, there you, there you all have it.

I think I got all cut up on all the questions.

Oh, okay, oh, it got, is there a particular question?

I thought I saw, actually, where's the start thing here?

So I can get the old comments up.

Oh, here we go, start.

We got that one, we got that one done.

Oh, here we go.

One last question, guys.

One last question, then we're gonna be, we're gonna be done.

Do you ever modify jerk bait swim baits or crank baits

with lead wire or tape to keep them down in the current?

Only really jerk baits and what I'll do

is I'll just put different hooks on them until they suspend

because like, a lot of jerk baits

that suspend and still water want to rise and current,

it's just like the effect of the current pushing on them

kind of pushes them up.

So a jerk bait that's like dead nuts,

suspending and still water will probably float

a little bit in current.

So I'll just usually put a little thicker hook on them

and just that little bit of difference

is usually what you need.

There you guys have it.

We got one more question about the sewage spill

and I guess I'll just answer that now.

I really just should do another thing

because good Lord, I just want to be done

with a stupid topic.

I know it's still important, guys,

but I have severe ADHD,

so I get horrifically bored by talking about

the same thing, ignosium.

Has it slowed at all or is it still coming out

at like the same pace?

It has slowed a lot.

So guys, the question is for people

are gonna be listening to this on the Apple podcast.

How will the sewage leak impact the fishing run DC?

So they're treating the CNO canal

that is right next to the river as an open sewer system.

So they're basically where the break is,

they're pumping it in at like 10 or 11

and they're letting all the shit and piss

flow down to lock nine and then pumping it into blue haven.

There's minimal leaking right now

compared to what it was before

because this is the main jugular of all shit

in Northern Virginia and Maryland

goes through this pipe that broke.

The river will heal by April, May,

it'll be perfectly fine.

Here's the issue.

The open sewer system will be that way

probably for six to eight months.

All of DC and Northern Virginia

will smell like piss and a dead body

in 90 degree heat for a long time.

There will be flies,

bot flies and a mosquito issue all summer.

So it's gonna be an issue

because every stay at home mom will walk outside

and everything's gonna smell like shit.

That's not gonna fly, pun intended.

But the fishing will be okay for catch and release.

Catfish and oysters, I don't know.

Like that do it your own risk, I guess.

They say it should be okay,

but I don't eat catfish to begin with.

I don't know about that.

I just bass fish, trout fish, all that stuff.

I just put it back.

So that's my two cents on it.

The problem is the smell will be horrendous.

So that's gonna keep this in the media

limelight for a very long time.

So it's not as bad as the Dupont Mercury spill.

That didn't have a smell,

but it just killed everything in the river.

So no one cared.

This is the flip.

The fishing will be okay.

People care more about smells bad.

Yep, yep, yep.

Yep, oh my God, I've worked at a farm too.

And that pneumonia spell, you can't get out of your clothes.

Now imagine all the rich people in DC

with their fancy bent leaves smelling that way.

So yeah, that's gonna be a thing.

Let's see, let's end on an uplifting question here

for Ethan.

Let's see where is it or uplifting.

Ah, here we go.

What is your favorite jig color and tube color?

I mean, the main jig colors I throw are like a black.

I mean, they always wanna have like a black.

That's just for stain water, cloudy conditions,

just when the visibility's low.

Really like like a red, you know,

like this is green pumpkin with a lot of red.

You know, red is just all around good,

craw color and good, pre spawn color.

And then I'll have like a, every now and again,

I'll have like a real natural green pumpkin,

but this is probably the one I throw the least.

I mean, it has to be like really sunny and queer

for me to wanna be throwing this.

And if it is that sunny and queer,

I'm probably throwing a tube instead of a jig anyway.

And my colors are pretty much the same with the two.

Like, they're all like blacks.

I throw like orange and reds.

And then I throw like a natural green pumpkin.

There you guys have it.

If people wanna book a trip with you,

if you have any times leftover, where can they go?

New River Outdoor Company.

Google new River Outdoor Company.

Our website is newriveroutdoorco.com.

You can call us, email us,

reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook

or reach out to new River Outdoor Company

on Instagram and Facebook.

Yeah, we'd love to have you.

There we go, guys.

So I will read off the winners of gift cards.

We have Andrew,

Andrew Hallman, 75-11,

any tips for these fly fishing on the new river.

We have Lee Martin and we have Aaron, J47-93

and then B-Cal-1 as well.

So guys, message me on Instagram or Facebook.

I'll get your gift cards here by the end of the week.

And then we have one last question that's stuck in and dude,

like because you basically comment on every single video

I've ever put out, I'll let you sneak this one in

before we get down here.

We have Curious.

If he has an opinion on the ordinance

or bomb making installations on the new river at Rafford,

I did know this was a thing.

Have there been any events?

Yeah, the Army Arsenal, the new river Radford Army Arsenal.

Huge, huge, huge operation.

It's bigger and acreage than the town of Blacksburg.

I mean, that's the black beer area.

I float through there all the time.

It's like an 11 mile stretch of river

that the whole 11 miles here, you're in the arsenal.

But you're not really allowed to go up on the banks

or anything, you have to just kind of stay on the river.

And they are always doing, you'll hear huge booms

and gunshots and everything.

But after the Hurricane Helene flood,

they lost a lot of materials like fuel and chemicals

and stuff, so that was kind of a big deal.

But I think it's all sorted out.

I've heard that they're a pretty big polluter.

I think, and I'm not an expert on this.

But I think their pollution tends to be more groundwater

leaching than water runoff.

Like, I've heard that it's not really good to be on well water

if you live around there.

But it's not, it's just such a big area and it's forested

and that I don't think like storm runoff

is really like an issue there.

But there's fish right in the river through the arsenal.

So, you know, there you guys have it.

I did not know any of that.

That's pretty, pretty wild.

Guys, as always, link in the episode description

to everything that we talked about.

I will leave this up for another hour or two.

If you guys want to finish up, I'll leave a link.

If not, this will be re-uploaded on Wednesday morning.

So everyone has a chance to watch it and enjoy it.

Again, if you want to, please go check out Ethan.

Please go support him on social media.

That is episode description down below as well.

And if you'd like to, please go support me on Patreon.

My goal is to do this full time

so I can stop working about a job

and pay the mortgage so I don't have to do unspeakable things

behind a dumpster at a Walmart to pay the mortgage.

So, please go support me there

and we will see you guys next time on Fishing, the DMV.

Bye.

You're listening to Fishing the DMV with your host,

Thomas Sarons.

Fishing the DMV is brought to you by Jake's bait and tackle

located in Winchester, Virginia.

Tactical fishing company and Fishing ProTech

located just outside Williamsburg, Virginia.

That doesn't get you jacked up.

I don't know what will.