EP86 | How To Get Into Every Major

0:00Marathon Talk, powered by Abbott World Marathon Majors Welcome to Episode 86 of Marathon Talk brought to you by Abbott World Marathon Majors. On this week's show, it was absolutely epic in LA for the A6LA marathon. There was an amazing marathon debut in Barcelona and a new half marathon world record from Jacob Kiplimo. And have you ever asked yourself, how do I get an entry for one of the majors? David McNamara speaks to Rob Dalto to find out just how. All this and more on Marathon Talk. Martin so great to see you, we actually got his chance to talk earlier in the week with our master class group, which was fun, but how are you doing? Well, I enjoy that master class group actually, because we get to hear stories from people doing

1:03doing one of the majors, of course, because we're deep into spring marathon season, there's quite a lot going on in the master class. So it's good fun to hear to hear everyone's stories and see pictures of medals and things like that. I'm all right, I'm riding and running, done a little bit of running this week. I thought of you the other day because you said when the weather improves, your hip will improve and the weather's been improving and my hip's been okay. So maybe there was something in that. I'm doing a little bit of running when the weather gets better. It's always better to run as well. Just before we go into the LA marathon and the events that happen there, did you have fun? Was it good? Did you enjoy yourself? It was so fun and we'll get to that amazing men's finish, but I think what was another side story that really stood out was the top three women, Priska Chirono, 45-year-old mom of three won the race. Second place was American Kellen Taylor, who's a mom of four and a firefighter,

2:06and Antonina Klombai, who was runner up three times in a row, took the third place spot to this year. A mom of one and a farmer like on International Women's Day was the day that the race was held. I just felt like that was such a beautiful celebration of women doing it all and it was really really inspiring to see these storylines just kind of unfold organically during race weekend. It was an inspiring day on the streets of LA despite being 91 degrees. So let's get into detail about LA. It's a brilliant event. Of course, you were there. It was very hot, but it was a really interesting and also a challenging event, I think, particularly because of the finish and in the men's race, which was won by Nathan Martin in 2136. He's a teacher actually from Michigan. He caught the Kenyan. Michael, is it pronounced Kamal? Kamal, yeah.

3:14Wow, yeah, he caught the Kenyan. Michael, come out literally on the finish line. Now, we're not going to say, I don't say on the finish line lightly because it was the closest finish in the LA Marathons history at 0.01 second between them. And if you watch the finish video, it's incredible because you can see Nathan coming and you think he's never going to get this. Michael's got this all the way and Nathan closes and closes and closes and then on the line, he just sneaks it. Now, in any normal race situation, you would go, wow, what a close finish, like Nathan came from behind, like an absolute rocket. And he just took Michael down right at the last minute, but this wasn't quite normal. Was it? It unpacked a little, a little more complicated

4:18than that didn't it? You know, I just want to, I want to first start off by saying that although this was one 100th of a second, I joked that Nathan Martin led one step of the race. Michael Kamal led the entire marathon, but Nathan Martin led for one step and it was the step that counted. But Nathan isn't just a middle school teacher. He's actually a two-time Olympic trials qualifier. He's ran, I think, to 10 is his personal best to 10. So he's a legit, a legit marathoner. So he goes into this race as one of the ones to watch. I had a whole card on him, but never got to speak about him because he was never, never in the picture at all until the final like three seconds of this race. That wasn't the most dramatic part of the race. That finish where Nathan won by one 100th of a second. The drama happened at 26 miles. When Michael Kamal was looking over his

5:21shoulder and looking at his watch, looking over his shoulder and looking at his watch, just desperate for that finish line to meet him sooner rather than later. When at 26 miles, they, all the pro athletes had learned that this is where the lead vehicles would pull off the course so they could make their way to the to the finish and Michael was exhausted. Simultaneous to that break in the infrastructure, a woman ran onto the course with pride waving her Kenyan flag as Michael was passing and he was just trying to navigate around her and followed the cars instead of following to the left where the finish line and he had to retrace his steps a little bit, not by much, but Simultaneous to that happening, Nathan's looking up the road saying, oh wow, there's Michael Kamal. I'm pretty happy with second place. And in post-race interviews, you hear his negotiating back and forth. I'm happy with

6:22second. This was a great race too. I think I can get him. No, second place is just fine. This is going to be good enough today. I still think I have a kick enough to get him and he finally just says, I'm going to give it all I've got to see and he went for it and he led one step of that race and it was the step that mattered. There's a couple really important things for me in this whole scenario. It's like, well, who won the race? Who won the race? Because the results say that Nathan won the race, right? But arguably Michael won the race because what, you're right, Michael went wrong and the margin of error in time that was costly to Michael was more than 0.01 seconds, right? So the question is, had Michael not gone wrong? Would Nathan, one, have still mastered the energy

7:26to sprint because Michael's a little bit further ahead at this point. He's maybe five or six seconds, five or six seconds further ahead. And you know what it's like, Dean, and you still, you said he spoke about settling for second. When somebody is an extra 50, 60 meters ahead, you may not put in as much effort. And even if you did, your best effort may not be enough to catch them. And in this case, I think probably it wasn't because it wouldn't have been because it's only 0.01 seconds. So he lost more than that in the time that he lost in the turn. And it wasn't his fault that he lost the time in the turn despite the fact that the athletes were told that the technical briefing do not follow the race car, do not follow the race car. What does he do? He follows the race car, but he's really distracted because a spectator has broken the integrity of the course.

8:28She's just doing her best to cheer him on and be enthusiastic and wave a flag and like, whoop, whoop, whoop, you know, go, Michael, Kenyan flag. He's like, yeah, he's just lost concentration at a critical moment. Perfect storm of disaster events for Michael. He looks around. Nathan's chewing at him from 50 meters back before you know, he's gone lost the race on the finish line. I mean, I think I might have given a tie or I might have said equal first. Like, I don't know because I would have wanted to celebrate both athletes effort and I wouldn't have wanted one to to not have had that lead. I think Michael would have taken it at he not gone wrong. Absolutely. And he did lead the entire race until the until the very finish. So some people might say he deserved to win. And some people would say that it was his fault he went off course. There's there's so much to impact. And your heart just goes out to both of these guys who gave

9:33it everything that they that they had mentally and physically. It was a lot of drama unfolding. I'll say. But you want to know my trickiest bit. So I don't know. I don't know Nathan. He's a substitute teacher from Michigan. I'm sure he's a lovely guy. Right. But here's my ethical question. For those of you out there, right, you're listening. It doesn't matter whether this is to win the race or not. The person in front of you goes wrong gets led wrong on the course. You see them get led wrong on the course. Do you and they're in your age group? Yeah. And you see them making a mega the qualify, right? They're going to qualify for a Boston or Tokyo age group place. With this finish, you see them there. Do you do them? Right? Knowing you think do you think yourself press your off hold? You went wrong. Or do you recognize that? Okay. Like maybe the race car you got

10:39distracted. There was other people on the course. This wasn't entirely your fault. I am not going to give you a hiding in the last zero point zero one seconds. Ethically, there's a bit of a dilemma there. There is no ethical dilemma there. If you're if you're racing, if you're in a race and all of those decisions that you make matter from grabbing your water bottles and your fluids to running the tangent so that you're you're running the the the shortest distance possible to make up that 26.2 miles. All those micro decisions matter. So if you're if you're if a counterpart that you're racing against your competitor doesn't run the tangent, do you give them a little wiggle room in the next in the next in the next turn? I don't think so. If they didn't grab their water bottle, would you say, no, they didn't really have the calories they needed to outspit me. So we'll just finish together. No, you're blood in the water. You are going at all costs to that finish line to

11:44get there as fast as possible and before the person next to you. Yeah. You know what? That's what happened. I'm not surprised. You're racing name with ruthless caster. Not surprised. Right. Let's move on to a world record. Shall we? It was amazing. Amazing in Lisbon. Of course, it's quite exciting at the moment is the half marathon world record in in Lisbon. Jacob Keplimo runs 5720. His Ugandan running London is going to be amazing in London because he's up against Sebastian Saway, who's won every marathon that he's he's he's run by the way. So to run a half marathon world record 5720 sets you up sets you up for a marathon duel, doesn't it? Tell us a little bit about his run in Lisbon and then just how much confidence Keplimo is going to take

12:46from that when he toes the line in London. Yeah. I loved seeing that he broke the world record here because he ran this same race last year and ran the world record. But then it wasn't ratified because he was following the lead vehicles too closely. So I feel like this was kind of a redemption run for him. But to know I didn't realize that he was running London to know that he is going up against Sebastian Saway, who has never lost a marathon, who has run 202 in every single one of the three marathons that he's run. To me is just a match up this spring that I am the most excited for. So I can't wait to be tuning in. And Martin, you're going to be in the media center watching this all unfold. So I'm so excited for you to be a part of that energy. It's going to be an amazing day in London. It would be really exciting race. It's always good to see a half marathon world record. It wasn't a world record in Barcelona though, but it was very, very close. It was

13:53the fastest ever female marathon debut in Barcelona where Foccio and Tisfe of Ethiopia who won the race in 210 53 to go second on the all-time women's marathon best list behind Ruth Chapingettich around 2009 56 in Chicago in 2024. I mean that is an unbelievable debut. Absolutely. And I was trying to be like, who is this person when I saw the results because I like immediately jumped to being skeptical, but she has run two half marathons at 63 minutes. So she's legit. When you look at that half marathon pace, it could could transfer over. She was seventh at the Paris Olympic Games and eight last year at the World Championships in Tokyo over 10,000 meter distance. So she she does have a name to her. She didn't just come out of nowhere, although this was her debut at the distance.

14:58But to me, I'm like, wow, Ruth Chapingettich, get it 209, the third place runner, Tegas de Sepha, ran 211 in Berlin. So we finally have a 210 marathoner to speak of. But this is, it was a stunning performance. And she said that she was going for the world record in her debut. She hit, yeah, she hit halfway in 105, 105, but then said that the that the wind really got in the way of her pursuing a negative split the second half of the race. So she was she even had the knowledge of negative splitting. I just feel like she went in probably. I don't know who she trains with who her coach or agent is, but she probably trains with a bunch of marathoners. So she's seasoned in her in her training, not so much in the race itself being her debut, but that she has, she has a lot of marathoners to look up to and to weigh herself against in in her training.

15:59The debut in marathon running. And you know, we know that running a half marathon is very different, very different to running a marathon double distance, but double the fun. But you know, it's it's a lot harder, isn't it? Because you don't you don't get going in marathon running until you've done done the first half. So she's a 6321 marathon runner, a half marathon runner in Valencia. She was aiming to go through in 65, which she did. She's still at a super strong like high 65, six low 66 second half, which is epic. She won the race by nine minutes. 9 isn't 10 minutes. Like that's a mile and a half. You know, more than she won the race by nine minutes. So something that could kind of work in in her favor is to have a race. You know, like to be in a race, because when you're nine, nine, 10 minutes ahead, you're not racing anything other than the clock and yourself and your own brain, are you? You know, to be nine and a half

17:04minutes ahead, to run to 10 on your debut. What we need now, what we really need now is a collective isn't it of, of, you know, Hassan, champion get it, test fail. When, when are we going to get the two nine to 10 to 11 female marathon runners on the line together and have a decent race? And then, you know, then, then on a decent race on a decent day, I mean, I can't believe we're having conversations about two 10 to nine women's marathon running. You know, we, we could see a new, another new era of, of women's marathon running where sub two 10 becomes sub, what sub two 20 was, not that long ago. I can remember, Deena, when like a sub two 20 feet women's marathon was rapid and you hardly ever saw it. Yeah, breaking two hours 20 minutes was in the era of your wife

18:07and I in our prime, but now we're seeing two 10 being this barrier to break and, and wow, as I look forward to watching that matchup between Kiplimo and Saway in the London marathon this spring, I cannot wait to see if test fail ends up in Chicago or Berlin to try to lower that, that world record. Quite exciting. A lot to look forward to in the marathon world. Bound two, they're bound to, I can just see Mark mild rubbing his hands together now going, I can like get them all on the start line. You thought, you know, when, when David speaks to Rob later on in the show, I mean, it's all about getting the place in the majors, but I like towing a start line where this is going down, it's going to be epic. Sticking with toe in start lines, Elliot Kipchogay has announced the start of his world tour, which is beginning in South Africa in Cape Town. You may remember we

19:07spoke about Elliot Kipchogay and his Elliot's running world tour announcement doing, I think seven different marathons and seven different continents. He's doing the San Lam Cape Town marathon in May this year. Excited? Yeah, I'm excited for Elliot to run in Cape Town and start this series of running and racing. I'm interested to know is he going to try to be the Elliot Kipchogay that we know that fit two hour, two minute by? Or is this just kind of like his tour where he's, he's waving to the crowds and and high-fiving those those stock press here for power along the way. There's mushrooms like we had in, but this sounds wrong, those mushrooms we had in New York. No, that sounds really wrong, but you know what I mean when people are hold up like press for power button, you know, like that's what he's got. I don't know. I think if I was Kipchogay, I would be, I would be enjoying these seven. I'm really rather than trying to race

20:13round. I think 204 and 19 to master's record. Not sure whether he quite would be up for that. We shall see. We shall see. Hey, what about this news? Shanghai is taking another step towards becoming an Aber World marathon major. It was an last week that Shanghai had passed stage one. They need another pass in December to become a major Shanghai. Yeah, I can't wait to to talk to Lisa Thompson from the evaluation committee to get her back on the show to talk about what else Shanghai needs to do. It is the city that has lured me for years. It's one of the most beautiful and iconic skylines. And so I already looked up like things to do in Shanghai on my phone to get ready to book my ticket when they become a major so exciting. Now, one of the questions that lands in our inbox at marathon talk quite a lot

21:13is people asking, how can I get a bib for the Aber World marathon majors? So we thought we would send out David McNamara from Aber World Marathon majors to find out all that information. And he's speaking with Rob Dalto. Rob is a 26 time major runner. They're going to go through every one of the seven majors giving you the information that you need to help you get a place at the start line on any of the greatest marathons in the world. Thanks, Mark. Yes, I am joined by Rob Dalto. Rob Dalto is of the Bronx Burners Run Club. Rob is joining us to help answer the questions that we get probably asked the most is how do we get into races? And it was something that came through our social channels a lot. So we thought let's speak to Rob, the man who knows everything, 26 majors, under his belt, on his way towards his

22:16fourth Aber World Marathon majors, six star medal, the man who knows how to get into every race and is here to give us some insight into how he just does that. Rob, welcome to marathon talk. Let's get into some races, Dave. Great stuff. I think it makes impeccable logic for us to start at the start of the calendar year and the race that just took place a couple of weeks ago to talk to your marathon. So obviously the talk to your marathon happens at the first weekend of March every year and 38,000 runners around that take the start line in each other government building in Chiduku. Rob, you've done that four times, I'm correct. That's correct. Experience of getting the through the ballot. So yeah, tell us more about getting a place in the Tokyo marathon. Yeah, getting a place in the Tokyo marathon is certainly one of the most difficult of all the Aber World Marathon majors. But fortunately there are very viable routes to

23:17get in. First and the traditional route to go is they've got a ballot. So applying for that and crossing your fingers several times twice, I've gone through the charity program, which is actually among if not the most accessible of all of the races, though it follows a different process that is a bit unique. When it comes to Tokyo, the process that the charities follow is that you actually pledge your amount up front. And typically the selection is based on the amount that you pledge. And also uniquely, they have you commit that pledge up front and then do your fundraising later. So the process is a bit unique, whereas most of the other ones you set a goal and you raise as you get closer to the race, this one you actually kind of do it in reverse. So I think that brings a little bit of discomfort and unfamiliarity to folks, but what it results in is actually some accessible minimum. So I've seen some things published that in 2024, 2025, between a thousand or

24:221500 US dollars is around the kind of the entry point, which is much lower than some other races. So the charity option is a great route for Tokyo. Wonderful. And of course, next year we will be hosting the Aber World Marathon majors. Marathon tours and travel, age, world championships. So for faster runners who are aged over 40, the opportunity to run Tokyo is never been greater. That championship happens every year and we have ranking events, over 370 events happening around the world for each qualify. So if people are of a speedy or nature, an age of 40 and want to run Tokyo next year, we're looking into that would be probably a good idea. Rob, in your experiences, are there any other more unfamiliar routes that people might not know about that you have learned in your experience? Yeah, absolutely. There's a couple actually, one through the one Tokyo program. And so that's one of the membership programs that Tokyo has and they run a number of challenges

25:25both for Japanese nationals and for international runners that reserve spots. I've known a number of folks who've gotten in through that method. And also some of the race sponsors put on challenges. So Runkeeper, for example, and ASX being one of the headline sponsors of that race have reserved 100 spots for runners who've gone through challenges through the app. And so there's a lot of ways to engage with the event that yields pretty significant numbers of spots available for runners. Amazing. That's the info we came for. That's how we get it. Thank you. So moving on to the next one. And this is a big one. This is, you know, people are going to be interested in this one. The Boston marathon. Boston marathon happens. Patriots day every year, the third Monday of April, a field, a smaller field than our other races, about 33,000 runners. This isn't a ballad, this is a time qualifying event. So, and I think it's usually the first second week of September when

26:31an invitation sort of go out. So Rob, can you give us some detail and maybe explaining the time qualification elements? I know every year it's set differently. And then also then, you know, your experience in other ways of getting a place in this famous race. Absolutely. Yes. So for the Boston marathon, the most unique aspect is that time qualification aspect for many of the age group runners is sort of the holy grail of the sport. And the way that that works for those who aren't familiar is that there's a time qualifying threshold. You must run faster than that threshold to be able to apply first selection. And then those spots are given out on a fastest first basis until they run out of spots. And so there have been years where everyone who qualifies as accepted in their years where there's a several minute buffer. So there's always a bit of anxiety induced in that waiting period where you find out if if you were able to be selected, if that was your, your root of entry. But there are other options as well, Dave. So charity running is, you know, an incredible route in the Boston marathon.

27:34You know, as you called out Boston and it's 130 year legacy has always been one of the smaller races. So spots are quite limited and quite coveted. And so, you know, charity placings are of high value. And so oftentimes you see folks raising, you know, minimums of $7,000 and $10,000 for spots, which is really high and also incredibly impactful for the communities. And so I always, always love cheering on the charity runners knowing the impact that they've had on the community. But that's not all. There are other ways to get into the Boston marathon. I think that's what you're asking about, isn't it? A bit of insight and that would be most welcome, I think. Well, I'll mention a few that I've seen. I mean, you talked about marathon tours and travel as the sponsor of the age group world championships. Tour operators are an option for the Boston marathon. But you got to get there early because there are spots are limited. And then I've seen options open up also, you know, through the majors. So and maybe you can speak a little bit more about this. But as I was approaching my six star and looking for ways to get into the races, the road to the majors program,

28:38which holds reserve spots for runners who have completed a certain number of stars already to create, you know, those opportunities to get into places like Boston. And also the at a world marathon majors gold club, which hosts smaller sub lotteries for its members. Yeah, to give some some meat on the bones on road to the majors road to majors is a virtual challenge that we run through our global run club app, which is six months, six times a year, we offer people a chance to run a half marathon to get a place in in our draws. And obviously we open the draws to everyone. So the road to majors are extra places in the in the in the draws. If you have in Boston's case, I think if you have four or more stars, you're eligible. Once you're in our database with four or more stars, you're eligible for a place in in our Boston ballot. If you haven't already done Boston, we only have 150 places for Boston. So it is they are quite rare and quite sort after. But I can tell you they always get snapped up and there's very rarely any extra kind of left over.

29:43They always get used. But as I said, then the road to majors increases your chance in that ballot. So if you run six half marathons over the course of the year, you could potentially have seven lucky tickets in our ballot for Boston. And it's been since we introduced this program maybe two years ago to see the feedback we get from our audience to talk about how this ballots have made such a difference to people. It's been really warming because as you say, it's because it's a time qualification race. Many people just won't be able to get that fast. So to find out all for other ways of getting around is is vital. I think for allowing more people to get their complete their six star journey in Boston. And this year we have, as we prepare for it, run a few weeks out from Boston. We have a record. 1600 people were beginning their six star medal in Tokyo. And excuse me, in Boston, which is double last year. And that was double year before. So we're

30:45we're seeing more and more ways to get in and more and more ways to complete Boston. Moving on from Boston, we come to my hometown to London to the TCS London Math and takes place the Sunday after Boston. So it's a busy week for us. We go from Boston straight to the Expo in London pretty much. And the London field is 60,000 to give a take. Demand for London is high, but Rob, if you can't get up, you don't get lucky in the public ballot, tell us the ways you can get in. Fire the non public body. Yeah, the numbers in London are just staggering. You know, the letters that go out from all the majors, if you were to apply for the ballot and not get accepted, I don't think are a kind of pale in comparison to the to the demand that you see in London charity program, excellent option, core operators, excellent option. And then for British Nationals, there is a good for age program

31:47as well for some of the from some of the faster athletes, but charity core operators, that's going to be your best bet if you don't get into the ballot. I think as well, we love many American listeners who would be going to be maybe looking at London as perhaps in either first international marathon. So by taking a tour operator route, it's beneficial but what the inside as well by doing one tour operator offer, it sort of puts you a little bit higher up the waiting list for other races, if you are say looking for Tokyo or something like that. So some to consider and and and you'll obviously be treated incredibly well and get to experience the city, not just the race, but everything else, the great is it in the world as to offer. Yeah, and I mean, on the tour operator side, I kind of had a myth dispelled for me over time. I used to have this kind of bias as I go, a tour operator must be like super expensive to do that. And looking at a tour operator at first, I had sticker shock. And then by the time I went through a race and realized, hey, these are, you know, big cities and the hotel is actually turned into

32:49be expensive. What I compared my trip with some of my friends who went with the tour operator route, it actually ended up being exactly the same and that they got they got a lot more out of the experience. So I actually celebrate the tour operator route. They do a really, really nice job. I've seen them now as I've kind of gone through the major circuit. And if you haven't explored it and you want to get into the races, they're a fantastic route. And some of them have quite significant numbers of bids for for the races and put on a really, really good experience with great communities. So here's some's up to them. Yes, they're, they're, they're great. So moving on to class, the sort of halfway market of the season we're moving into August. The latest addition to the Abbot World War, the major family is Sydney, the TCS Sydney, right, presented by A6. Last year was the first edition. I know you were there as a to visit Dineunder. And as it's sort of growing, you know, it's, we're expecting, I think last year the field for Sydney was 33,000. I think

33:52this year's field is going to be around 36,000. So they're growing the field incrementally as they develop their, the, you know, they learn year on year, how much they can hold and what they can do. So um, yeah, tell us about your experience of, of, of, of Sydney last year and also, you know, what your understanding is in terms of getting places down there. Yeah, what a great experience they put on instead. I had the opportunity to run it as it's last year in candidacy. And then it's first year as an official major for anyone who did run it during its candidacy period. You actually had guaranteed reserved entry for any of the subsequent three years, which is really cool. So if anybody had happened to take place in that, they would know that they've got that opportunity to, to secure their guaranteed entry. Other than that, the traditional methods that we spoke about for some of the other races all hold, you've got to ballot. It remains a bit more accessible because it's a newer race. So the, the volume of, of applicants is not quite as high. So your odds are a little bit better. You've got your charity route. You've got four operators.

34:52So you've got a number of great options to get in there. I ran the race last year with team Abbott. And so that's a great option. So US-based runners team Abbott is a community of runners with a connection to health and their running communities. And any US runners available to apply to that for guaranteed entry to any of the Abbott World Marathon majors. But that's a route I took to get into Sydney last year. Yeah, team Abbott, I have a presence at every race. And we, we, we, we love to kind of spotlight their stories on our social channels as well. And what was, what, the interesting point you, you actually made as well about Sydney being such a kind of destination. I met so many people in, I exposed them the last couple of, since Sydney, who've said that they kind of spent two weeks in Australia kind of getting used to it. And then doing the race, and then spend another week in London, New Zealand, or just experiencing more of the city,

35:53you know, it happens at a nice time of the year, especially from a UK point of view, because the kids are at a school, so you can make a family trip out of it. But yes, it's wonderful. Just to note on Sydney as well, the, the, the ballot for Sydney usually opens my mid October. And I think, from memory last year, it was just after Christmas when they announced places. So you get the good thing about the, all the races announcing their ballots plenty of time and advances. You get a chance to book those flights, and you can, you can, you get to make, take advantage of, of, of, of a reasonably priced airfare before things start again crazy, closer you get to, to the dates. But on Sydney, I'm moving on to my last major, which is Iran Berlin in 2023. You've had some great times in Berlin. We did a great little video with, with, with Rob Romano in Berlin. If you remember, I'd time, I think it was the first time you peered on one of our channels. So it's not just about Berlin and the, the great city it is.

36:55Yeah, and good times. It goes to you for working the whole weekend and then getting out and running pictures. It's a good, a good, a good time. But yeah, you should. Look, you've got your lottery, Berlin actually offers this really interesting lottery option, where you can apply as a team. So if you've got one or two other friends who can actually all apply together and all get in or all back get in. And that's a really unique option because when you plan for these events, oftentimes you want to travel with others. So just a really cool approach that they've taken. Also, a lesser known route in the Berlin marathon, the day before the Berlin marathon, they do a roller marathon on the same course. And if you complete the roller marathon, you actually get a guaranteed entry into the marathon for the subsequent year. So a little more fact for anyone who wants to pick up roller blades is a fantastic no guess. If only I could roll a blade. If only you can roll a blade.

37:57But for those who have run the Berlin marathon, they will have seen at the expo. It's, it's almost about as much about rollerblading as it is about running. Well, I'm being a bit for seizures. But there's a ton of stuff there because they do that awesome event the day before before the marathon. Aside from that, all the other traditional methods, whole tour operators, charity partners are all amazing ways to get in. And Dave, I don't know if you mentioned this already, but the gold club that the upper world marathon majors puts on. I've heard of multiple people getting into multiple majors through the gold club lottery that you have put on. Yeah, gold club is, I think it's 2,000 people. It's an enclosed group, but we grow it every year. There's a wedding list. If you just search up or a marathon major's gold club, it'll pop up in your search engine of choice. And there's a wedding list, but you can join. And it offers a chance for there's community elements to it. There's, you get a big gift bag when you join, but importantly, there's

38:58bases at races. And we do also events then within races. We had a wonderful event in Tokyo that was attended by, I think, about 150 people there and similarly in New York. It's, it's, it's a great sense of community. And it's, you will see, if you go to any of the experts, when we have our list on the wall of six star finisher six star hopefuls, we market the gold club members in yellow. So they get a little bit of a spotlight placed upon them. So yeah, the gold club is if you're going to get that next step and it's a really use away of, of getting access of the opportunity rise and you get that email inviting you to join. I suggest you take it moving across the ponds. Second, first, the second, second weekend of, of October, we head to the windy city to Chicago. Rob, how does one get into the Chicago marathon? Couple options for Chicago. All the options we've already done traditional ballot.

39:58Charity, floor operators are all great options there. A couple of options for American runners as well. They've got a good for age qualification similar to that of Boston. Actually, if you hit the Boston time threshold, you automatically get accepted for Chicago again for that's for US runners. And for our stench fast runners, they actually have a legacy program with a much shorter time commit. So if you've run five or more Chicago baritons in the last 10 years, I've had a laugh because I say that realizing that it's quite the tall task. But then you get guaranteed entry going forward as well. So great, incredible race. Bright and early starting the windy city, as he said, typically on what is the Columbus day weekend in the state? And correct me from wrong, but I know what he's, and we'll come to this in New York. But in Chicago, is there a similar program where if you run say the Shamrock shuffle and the half, there's places available or am I confusing that with New York? Yeah, that's right Dave. So for Chicago, if you compete in

41:02their distance series, so that's the Shamrock shuffle, the 13.1 and the prior years marathon, you will get guaranteed entry into the following year Chicago marathon. Great option for our Chicago residents. And finally, we go to the last race of the year. Always, it's always my favorite race of the year when we get to go because it's, we celebrate the season, we get to find, they get closure of the, you know, the championships. It's, you know, such a great city to visit. It's your hometown. You always take us out for a nice meal in a restaurant that is far, far above my pay grade. Tell me about the TCS New York City Madness. It's the granddaddy of them all. The best marathon on the planet. I always like to say on a nice weather day, it might be the greatest endurance event to have ever happened because it really is of that amazing scale. As a New York City resident, I try not to be biased, but I do appreciate that the energy that the city brings is really second to none. And while often in nothing, multiple times broken

42:02the record for largest marathon in history also offers a number of ways in that we should dive into. Yeah, we're recording, I think last week, the public ballot was announced, and but as your best tell us there are other ways. There are other ways. For those who are New York rural runners-members, they do offer a second chance ballot for some of those spots that don't get swooped up. So there's a bit of a second go there where I've heard folks get in on that before. Shore operators, charity partners, massive charity partnership program for the New York City Marathon, an incredible amount of money is raised for the amazing charity partners of the TCCC Marathon and New York Roadrunners as a whole, including their team for kids, which just does absolutely amazing work. For locals, also, there is a 9 plus 1 program where if you participate in nine of the New York Roadrunners qualifying races throughout the year and volunteer at one, you secure a guaranteed spot into the following year's marathon. That has been my root of entry

43:05every single year that I've run the New York City Marathon shy of the times I've raised money for for some of the charity partners and a huge and a cultural phenomenon within the New York City community. And so we've had the volunteering element of that. What did you have to do to volunteer? Yeah, throughout the year, they just offer many different races, like basically any of the races that are available on the calendar provide, you know, offer opportunities to race. I've served in many capacities whether it's volunteering at the New York City Marathon Expo. I volunteered at the mini 10k. I personally like volunteering when there's fun activations that races. So for example, there is a gridiron four-miler, which they host on Super Bowl Sunday, typically. And that morning they host a football toss and every runner has an opportunity to see how far they can toss a football winner getting a prize. And I like to volunteer at that event. It's a fun one. That's amazing. That's what we love. It's so good. Wonderful. Right. Well, I think that's all seven races ticked off. We'll have to have you back next year

44:05when we want to talk about Cape Town. I'll talk about Shanghai, hopefully. Rob, I really appreciate your time in this. And we've obviously talked about, we've talked about the road to the major as we talk about the Gold Club. I think that's really much ticked off. Was there anything that we want to miss that you wanted to add that you think might be relevant for people to be interested in learning? No, I think you hit most of a day. I think we covered a lot of it. You know, what I do see pop up sometimes is race event sponsors. Sometimes are offering available spots to community members. And it's really open to everyone. So I was just seeing recently a head of Boston, Poland Spring, Samuel Adams, Band-Aid, all offering spots in Tokyo. I learned about coral coffee at 100 spots available, 50 for nationals, 50 for internationals. And so I keep seeing a lot of these sponsors offering bibs out to the community, which anybody is available to apply for. So if you are trying to get into an Abbey World Marathon major and you think you

45:09missed your shot, just like always keep your eyes peeled for opportunities that may pop up that are really available to anybody, regardless of background and story. And you'll be surprised, I always like to say every person, every runner has a story and it's a story worth being told. Don't be afraid to share your story. You never know if you might get picked up and find yourself in the race for your dreams. That's amazing. Rob will see in Boston in a few weeks, I think. Yeah, can't wait to finish the race on Boyle Stand on Patreon. We'll have a fourth six star medal waiting for you in London. If people want to follow you on Instagram, it's pursuit of performance or just check the show notes, I'll have a link there. And once again, Rob, thanks for your time. Thanks so much for having me, Dave. Look for the scene out there. So great to hear from Rob. What a wealth of knowledge. If you were like me, listeners, you were listening to Rob talk and taking notes. Thank you so much, David, for doing that interview.

46:13Yeah, loads of useful advice in there, made a few notes to Dina, because I've still got, I'm not like you, I don't have a 219 marathon to my name. I just don't phone up and go, hi, it's Dina Caster here, can I have a place in the marathon? I really need as many hacks as I can get, because I've still got quite a lot of marathons to finish, because remember, my role, the majors was as chief bad carrier. I was a kid boy, if you've seen Ted Lasso, I was nate before he went to West Ham. I just used to carry bags and not do a lot else. So I don't have a six star finish, you know, like you do. So I need to be working on those hacks all the time. Well, I wonder, should we should put another major on our list? So, which one do you want to do? You know, I'm torn. I am torn, because I love Sydney as a city.

47:15I've not run Berlin, but it's quite accessible for me. I've been to Berlin and know the race, you know, I've not run Chicago, but I'm bad-carried at Chicago. But I would love to go to Boston and run, because I think the heritage, the tradition, the fact that you've got to qualify, you know, just the Boston's always been that one for me that's been out of reach. No, it's always felt like, oh, well, one that I'd love to do Boston, but I just can't, I'm not sure I could. I don't know if I'd get in. And then of course, Tokyo came in, and kind of threw a big Tokyo spanner in the works, because I'd love to go to Tokyo, because I've not been to Tokyo. So whereas I've been to some of the other majors, I've not been to Tokyo. So I think I'd have to have a little bit of an internal wrestle, whether we did Tokyo or or I did Tokyo or Boston. Yeah, just draw sticks. Sounds like you just have to draw sticks to see

48:16what's next. Boston would be hard to be anyway. Don't forget to subscribe to MarathonTalk on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast. Platform follow our social channels, search my AvonTalk on the Graham, Facebook, or TikTok. Give us a follow. Do you know anything fancy in your plan this week? I am getting ready to head out to Chicago, speaking of your bag carrying days, and I'm going out there for the Shamrock Shuffle. Oh, yeah. The America Shukaku made on puts on the Shamrock Shuffle. I will be running it. You know who is usually out there. I'll put in a good word for you is Jack Fleming, the Boston Athletic Association, so I'll give him a little nudge as we're running the shuffle together. Yeah, so I'm going to be out in Chicago for that event. It's always fun, kind of a coming of spring, which is speaking your language, Martin, as it warms up around the world. What are you going to be doing? I shall be going

49:20out. Look at the daffodils blooming because they're everywhere at the moment. Hopefully we have a bit more sunshine. I'm doing a little bit of running. I'm going to watch some boys play football, both of my boys are playing football at the weekend, so yeah. Busy, busy, busy. Until next time, enjoy the run wherever it takes you.