Marathon Talk Extra | Tokyo Marathon Special

Marathon Talk, powered by Abbott World Marathon Majors.

Welcome to Marathon Talk, extra hour special show all the way from Tokyo,

the first race of the Abbott World Marathon Majors spring season. I'm joined by Dina and David

who is still in Tokyo. Hi, Dina, hi, David. Hi there. David, you look remarkably well for not

sleeping for over 23 hours. Yeah, it's been a it's been a long day and I've spent the last hour

perfecting my Japanese intro. So I promised on my last appearance Konichiwa Marathon Toraka,

Exeter Ratt, your Kuu Koso, Marathon Radatron Et Shondis, Marathon Martin Kirin Kuu to Dina Castor No Te Kosei.

That's a round of applause from this side, David, that was excellent. What did you say?

Just checking in. I did your job. I said hello. Welcome to Marathon Talk, extra, Marathon Talk,

the Tokyo Marathon edition presented by Marathon Yelling Sun and Dina Castor Sun.

Well, welcome. You've been a very busy week. You've been of course, it is Tokyo and Tokyo

always signals the start of the Abbott World Marathon spring running season. So before we get into

the racing and it was incredibly exciting. What have you done today? It's just been interesting, David.

Today has been, like I said, such a long day, like I'm in the hotel, what's right beside the

start? So you roll out from breakfast and the races are front of you. It's one street away and

to be behind the scenes and to see everything gets set up and the expectation, the excitement,

and the corrals. And then as soon as those, as soon as those the confetti goes and

Marty Feldman, the former guitarist from Megadeth is slaying his riffs as 38,000 people across

the finish line. As soon as I have gone, I'm jumping onto a bus and getting ferry to the finish line

so you can kind of get work on it. And the bus is, you're watching the broadcast in the TV and

seeing that. And personally, I'm stressing about why if I can actually try and get videos up,

but that's just a work hazard that I have to deal with. And then the way Tokyo and Japan is,

it's so ordered and everything's taken care of you and you don't want for anything, but also

you're in a foreign land and it's kind of like things are very different and interesting. But

the whole week has been, you know, so engaging, so promising, so open. And I find it, you know,

at a certain previous episode, this is my fourth, fifth time being here. And this is the first time I've

seen a race like this, like one of the main, one of the original six majors kind of evolve so much

in one year on year in so many different ways, operationally, immediately and just kind of the

way it presents itself. So let's unpack that a little bit because you mentioned the confetti at

the start and it's so fresh, the Tokyo marathon that they're probably still cleaning up that confetti

as we speak together. But you said the party started way earlier this time that the press conference

actually had a more festive feel to it. So can you talk about that? That's one thing that changed

immensely. It used to be very traditional and kind of just the athletes lined up and questions

and answers. How did it, how did it change this year? Yeah, the traditional format for the press

conference was, because it's done in the kind of obviously, maybe most of the athletes would be

East African, so they'd be seeking Swahili. So they translate Swahili to Japanese to English. So

there's not much room for conversation, it's very much as you'd expect. I'm glad to be here

and I'm happy to be here and I'm feeling good and I'm going to race a good race someday and that's

essentially what they all say. But this year Tokyo went really a different sort of tack on it.

They turned the press conference into like the darts. There was a big light show, there was a DJ,

there was a kind of a passageway through. It was open to the public as well, which made a huge

difference because it just brought a kind of fresh energy to a try and tested form that really made

I know, speaking to the athletes, they were like blown away, but many of the wheelchair athletes

were just like, this was one of the best things. I speak to some of the agents, they were like,

yes, this is how we're going to give ourselves, you know, our athletes at once.

And that connects it, David, doesn't it? It's so often we see in global athletics that it's

quite difficult sometimes to make connections with athletes at the, if you're a spectator or a fan,

you know, so having it open in that way, do you remember in the UK, there was an event called

the night of the 10,000. It was about running 10,000 meters on the track and they used to make it

informal and speak to the athletes and kind of, it sounds a little bit like Tokyo, you know,

I've started to bridge that in connecting with athletes and telling stories and making

exciting narrative around the event. Completely. And that came from, I was speaking to

Yasu, the race director of Tokyo, and this was brought up. I said, where did this come from?

And he said, we were in Australia, in August, and we saw how Sydney, you know, it was, like,

I kept showing you in Savannah, at the time, like brought them on and treat them like rock stars.

And they were like, we got to do that. And that's what we did. And what I love about that is that

all the original six majors have seen what Sydney does. And then like, we could take that and learn

from it. And it's a credit to the event that Sydney put on in last August, but also that the

races themselves can are too proud to not change and not see what works at different races.

Yeah, you've got to recognise innovation and development and shift and, you know, moving landscape,

like running participations in such a strong place at the moment globally. So it's really

important that events stretch into, you know, trying to do new things and, and connect athletes

and spectators and have, you know, wide of fan engagement and make the experience of being in

Tokyo, you know, one to remember, we're certainly going to ask you about some of your experiences

of being in Tokyo. But before we do that, there was some epic racing as well, Deena, both in the

men's and the women's events. Certainly, like, some scenes that we sort of see sometimes in

marathon running, but they took them to extremes. We saw a brilliant sprint finish and we saw some

in the men's races. We saw some crazy front running. You could call it, right?

Yeah, I think it never disappoints, right? And, and I think when we start the press conference off

with all that fanfare and celebration, it just kind of sets the right tone. And the athletes

performances certainly delivered on, on that front, just, just really bringing the excitement and

charged energy from, and from the, the start of the race and some irrational running possibly

to finish line sprint. So it was really, really a, a day to remember in the, in the front pack, just,

just fast course record. I'm just going to jump to the women's because I think,

Bridget Cosgai ran a brilliant, a brilliant race. She's back on the, back at the, at the front.

She's the former world record holder, Olympic silver medalist, six time Abbott world marathon

major champion. This is her second Tokyo win, but she was kind of, kind of like, behind the scenes,

again, you know, we weren't hearing from her for a while. She had some injuries and, and really

took charge after the halfway point, took charge of that race and, and no one, no one, no one could

go with her. She didn't give much away in the build up to the race, but of course, the former

world record holder, right? And, and, you know, major's champ, you can't, you can't rule around,

but she's had a quiet couple of years. Yeah. She has had a quiet, and you wonder when people have

a quiet couple of years. Can they knock on the door of 2014 again? You know, is that possible?

So for Cosgai to come back out, you know, she break, break her course records, storm home,

2014, 29. That is rapid. She was close to her previous world record. Like 20 seconds off of her,

of her previous world record time, two time Chicago winner, two time London marathon champion,

and now two time Tokyo marathon champion, we also learned not until after the race that she's

getting ready to switch allegiances to Turkey. That means she's going to have to have three years

of not representing Kenya, but she could run as an independence, like maybe not at world

championships and Olympic game, or, yeah, not world championships, because the next Olympics will

be in Los Angeles, and there she will try to represent Turkey. But I think that speaks to

her lack of confidence in the selection process that when it comes to 2028, Los Angeles

Olympics, she does not think that she will be in the top three or four to be selected for her

national team in Kenya. So switching allegiances, it seems like a strategy she's thought about,

and so she's going to represent Turkey in the next Olympics. Really wild.

When we do see that sometimes, don't we? We do see allegiance shifting. In fact, I was watching

the Winter Olympic Games, and I didn't realize just how much country hopping takes place in

the biggest skating. You know, it's like, well, maybe I need a partner and they're from over here,

and, you know, so therefore I'm going to start my, you know, I'm going to see if I can change

my country allegiance. And over the years, we've definitely seen that in athletics, you know,

where often, you know, really talented East African athletes will, will, you know, either

go and live in another country, or they will have an allegiance for another country. But I'm intrigued

in your comment around, perhaps she doesn't trust the selection process because I was thinking maybe

she doesn't trust her own ability to qualify for the team given the strength and depth

that's likely to be in women's Kenyan running at that time. So it's definitely going to be

harder to qualify, perhaps over controversial to qualify. I think, I think, Martin,

as well, you've touched an interesting point there, and the fact that the competition for Kenyan

women right now, my colleague, Louise Sylvester, wrote a piece for the Majors magazine that came out

two weeks ago talking about we're living in like a golden age of female marathon running. And

you see, you know, you, you have to look at it and there's the two hotbeds of Ethiopia and Kenyan,

and perhaps Bridget's looking at it and going, I want one more championship, one more one more

Olympics, but maybe I'm just, you're kidding, and she has to make that jump. If it's three years,

as Tina said, she's now is the time to make that decision. So it's an interesting approach.

Yeah, and when you look at the results at Tokyo, the top 10 on the women's side were all Ethiopia

in Kenya, except 10th place from Japan. I host, host, so it is a domination. You see it at a lot

of the majors that it's kind of that Kenyan Ethiopian battle, that traditional battle between the two,

but Enter Turkey, who could have some representation, maybe taking athletes from some of these countries,

behind Bridget Cosky was Bertican, well day of Ethiopia in 21635, so almost two minutes back from

Bertic Cosky, and Howie Faisa was third from Ethiopia to 1738. Two time Tokyo champion could not pull

off the three-peed, so to make Cabete of Ethiopia ran 217 for four. Hey, I tell you what though,

it was mad in the men's race, absolutely mad in the men's race. Like I can remember Dino's,

you probably can, you know, you'd think going through halfway in 61 minutes, that's a bit,

okay, it's a bit keen. Of course, now we see regularly the world's top marathon runners going through

in 61 minutes, but not someone we've never heard of with a 209 PV, right? It sort of reminds me of

the London marathon in the 1980s, where you'd get somebody dressed in a fancy dress costume and

they go sprinting off so they could get on the telly for the first mile, and look, it was a Japanese

athlete Hashimoto, who a decent runner with a 209 personal best, went through halfway in 6129,

which I think was about 45 seconds faster than his own personal best, right? So he has gone out,

and at one point he had a 42nd lead over this huge chasing pack, and it felt a little bit like

watching a cycling stage race, you know, where they're leaving this solo like guy at the front,

like just waiting, and the wisdom of the old kind of cyclists in the in the peloton, they're waiting

to pants and haul him in and destroy him, and of course Hashimoto, he stayed at the front,

he stayed at the front so often in these cases, you start to fall, you start to fall, you see

earlier than the 25k, he actually got reeled in, but he did get reeled in, big groups swallowed him

up, he did end up finishing though, which is credible, but his last half was in, remember his first

half was in 6129, his second half was in 70 minutes, so you know, look like he's almost 10 minutes

slower, 18 minutes and 12 seconds for his last five kilometers, which is the best part of

four minutes slower than his first five kilometers, so he must have felt destroyed, I think he

just finished it about that, not sure where he finished overall, about 30 seconds. He finished

in 39th place. Oh gosh, I mean, that is such a painful way to race, but when the peloton,

using the cycling terms, passed him, the drama was far from over, because it was a three-way

sprint to the finish with Tadesse Takale of Ethiopia pulling off a win with the exact same time as

second place finisher Jeffrey Toritich from Kenya, so third place, if anybody remembers the

New York City marathon of last fall, when Alexander Matiso was beaten by Benson Kippurudo,

same exact finish line time, they went to a photo finish, and he lost again there, so moral of

this story from Matiso is he cannot leave it to a finishing sprint in his next marathon.

Yeah, he needs to work on his sprint finish, you've thought he'd learned that in New York,

but mind you, how hard, how hard is it? How hard is it to muster up a sprint finish at the end of

the marathon? It's really difficult. There were a few other good stories, Dina, you particularly

liked the Italian New Record. Yes, I was really impressed, that was one of the things that stood out

when I went to look at the results after the race is Alias Awani of Italy broke his national record

and was six, he was six place in 20426, but when I was thinking about it, I'm like I wonder what

the European record is, and he's less than a minute off the European record, so I feel like

the future, he's the bronze medalist from the world championships, he's getting six place and

breaking his national record here, that he's got some good momentum behind him, so I'm really

excited to see the future of his racing and maybe a threat to the European marathon record.

It's not often that you go a little bit down the further down the field for some fun stories,

but as the race was in Japan, the Japanese record was under threat potentially for a little bit,

and that was largely because there was a little bit of smackdown going on between Asakusa Guru,

who is the current Japanese national record holder, I think he set that in Valencia when he ran

20455, I think is that right? A few years back, a couple of years back maybe,

but this year it's a race off in Tokyo between Asakusa Guru and Suzuki Kengo, now both of them

neck and neck, and they train together as well, so they must know each other really, really,

really well. The record was on for a little bit, it was Asako eventually pulling away in 205-58

for 12th with Suzuki Kengo in 13th, running 206. Oh wait, both of them just the head of P.U.

Fang, who set a new Chinese national record of 205-57 by about a minute to come in in 11th place.

Such impressive running on that side, and Sarah Hall in our last marathon talk interview had

it tested to loving running in Japan for its culture, and this was just it unfolded display from

the beginning of the race and seeing the likes of Hashimoto going out so fast, Suzuki and Asako

trying to battle it out for that record in the middle of the race, so just really prideful running,

and I love to see that on display on the streets of Tokyo. It seems to happen every year in

some way or another, whether it's the number of racers that we see competing well, or having

these little showdowns in the middle of the race, just great racing by the Japanese.

And the depth, too. We did mention on the show, and we've talked a lot previously about the depth

of Japanese marathon running and the strength of that depth of Japanese marathon running, and how

it really is a way of life, the essence of the corporate team. In this race, in Tokyo this year,

there were eight Japanese men that ran inside 2-10, like eight Japanese men inside 2-10. That's

rapid. There were also eight Kenyan men inside 2-10 in the top 30, and there were seven Ethiopian

men inside 2-10, and they pretty much made up the top 30 between those three nations with a few

others sprinkled in there. Right, so when I was talking earlier about the Ethiopian Kenyan battle and

how they have shown their dominance on display here, but enter Japan, who's up in there maybe not

having people in the top 10, but in the top 30 and running under 2-10 is still really strong running,

and showing the depth of Japanese distance running in a non-Olympic year. They also, like in my era,

2004, Mizuki Naguchi getting the gold medal in Athens Olympic Games, they really know how to show

up and deliver when it counts. So great job for Team Japan at the Tokyo Marathon this year.

I'll tell you what, Deena, was it ever in doubt? We did briefly talk about Marcel Houg in the show

last week. Was it ever in doubt? I mean David Weir, we gave a shout out to him, but unfortunately he

didn't make the start line, and Marcel Houg was pretty dominant, wasn't he? Yeah, and I think he

just is such a display of grace out there. He didn't have to fight too hard for his seventh straight

Abbott World Marathon major win. This is his 43rd Abbott World Marathon major. He's just a

he's a dominant force when he is on the starting line, and he is very rarely beaten.

Doesn't he own every single marathon major title now? He's a current holder of every single title.

Is that right David? Is the current, is you obviously so de-graphic that I put a

few hours earlier that said this exact thing? It was interesting, this is an interesting

ness in the Marcel talk in the press conference, both before the race and after the race. One of the

questions that was put to him by a member of the public, actually, that had a many changes to his

equipment, and he talks to himself and also Tamir Sakuki, who didn't run, but was at the press conference.

I think it was a late decision for him not to race. They both talked about how they were wearing

new gloves. They have the same machine, but they're wearing new gloves, and Marcel was concerned

about it, because when you look at the way the wheelchair athletes, it connects the bulk of their

strength comes from their upper body, so the gloves are vital to how they perform, and he was

quite surprised to hear him say, he'd only been using his maybe two or three weeks,

and that was interesting here, so obviously it didn't do him too, but the gloves can

wear them again in Boston, I'm sure, but as he said, once the withdrawals were announced, it

wasn't much of a foregone conclusion, but Marcel has been around, I think that's the fourth time

he's won in Tokyo, and he knows where he ran that course, and he led from the front, as he always

does, and it's a phenomenally easy for three races in 11 years, I think. He's one of the most

dominant sporting sportsmen in World Sports, I feel. Yeah, he won the race by seven minutes over

losing Kwan of China, and in third place was Sho Watanabe of Japan. Great showing by all of them,

but Marcel Houg is just unbeatable, the silver bullet otherwise known as, but it was a Swiss sweep

on the women's pro wheelchair. Unfortunately, there was not coverage, they did not show the women's

wheelchair division, we had to look at the results afterwards, but Catherine De Bruener,

former series champion kicking off her 2026 campaign in style by winning by about four minutes

over Eden Rainbow Cooper of Great Britain, and in third was Zhu Zekuan of China in 141, so great

racing on both sides, but it was a Swiss sweep for the top of the podium. Something to think about

David, I think, we've got to get equity in coverage, we've got to get visibility in coverage,

we talk about it, we really want to see it, we're keen to see the racing, we're keen to see,

you know, racing throughout the entire field, I want to see the elite men, I want to see the

elite women's, I want to see both chair events, so the thing you said at the start about

majors always learning, learning from races, that's going to be something that I hope that we'll

see Tokyo take away for next year is really positive, strong coverage of the women's chair events.

Well, yeah, I know for a fact, Michelle Veltman, who's been a guest on the show in the past and

is the kind of the, we're a paraphernalist representative for our marathon majors,

you know, she is always fighting the corner for equal representation and raising these concerns

with, you know, it's such a TV, it's the wheelchair safety on the course and sometimes gets overlooked,

and she does a really good job with that, and it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a constant,

a continual progression, and we see improvements every year, but there's always more to do.

Improvements indeed, and one of the things that Tokyo did improve on last year, they lacked fluids

on a warm race day, lacked the fluids, and this year you mentioned some changes,

they made even at the expo and passing things out. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Yeah, obviously, the last year there was a controversy with water supplies and understandable,

and they knew from the moment we landed a receiving email from Tokyo Marathon to say,

Sunday's going to be hot, but we are prepared. And as, without having run the 42 kilometers,

I can't say for that, but my understanding was that there was very few complaints about water supply.

Everyone, when they got their bib at the expo received a reusable cup, so alongside the more

recognizable supplies along the course, there was also sort of water troughs, I think they were,

and you could just run along and dip your cup in there and get out of there, go scoop water and

cool yourself down. It wasn't, what we weren't talking Berlin 25 hot, it was, but it was warm

in Tokyo, and you also remember so many of these athletes will have trained during the winter,

and it's, it does have an effect. I remember the first time I first met in

London, I trained through the winter and turned up at 19 degrees, I was wearing tights,

and I couldn't take them off, so I had to run right through them, and that was the reason why I

didn't break three hours. The reason, but you always have second chances, the runners were also

allowed nutrition on the course for the first time to bring their own nutrition on course for

the first time, and we were expecting over 2006 star finishers, did that happen this year?

There was 2228 registered six-hour finishers, I understand that probably maybe 1% of that didn't

cross the finish line unfortunately, but still we've passed 25,000 six-hour finishers now, we're,

we continue to grow, the six-star tent is still my favorite place on race day to see the

emotion of years of efforts that people go through to get their six-hour medal. I had the pleasure

today of giving a medal to the first woman to come from Grenada to have gotten her a six-star

medal, and every time I come away from those, that time I spend at the six-hour tent my heart is

filled with joy. Right, so before we keep David up for over 24 hours consecutively, I thought we'd

end the show, he promised us last time we recorded with him that he would go to a karaoke bar,

I believe he's been to a karaoke bar, so now he's going to sing for us again, his favourite

Japanese. I don't know about Japanese song, but yes, we did go to the karaoke bar, I did sing Dex's

Midnight Runners, I did bring the house down, it was it was glorious, and as I look out on the

Tokyo skyline, the sun is about to rise, so I'm going to say good night, good morning to you both,

and leave it here, because I think my internet is going to also die. Okay, right, good luck,

thanks a lot, cheers, goodbye. Awesome, fantastic, well a week it's been to you, I'm really glad that you

got to join us again from your hotel in Tokyo, so I'm glad the race was fantastic, we saw some brilliant

racing in exciting finishes for the men's field with a three-way sprint down at home straight,

an incredible two-fourteen from a not-so-former has been in Bridget cost-guy, so it's really wet

the appetite for the fourth coming season and the rest of the abut world marathon ranges.