Episode 126 – How to Win Land and Influence Ardea

In around 443 BCE Rome is navigating its relationships with its neighbours. Last time we caught up with Rome they became involved in the affairs of the nearby city of Ardea. The conflict seems to have centred around a very attractive plebeian woman whose name has not been recorded in the annals of history. It’s this meddling in Ardea which sets the scene for 442 BCE…

Episode 126 – How to Win Land and Influence Ardea

The challenges of 442 BCE

The consuls of 443 had such a great year that the incoming consuls for 442 BCE knew they had a lot to live up to. There’s a sense that the successes over Ardea were substantial but there are mixed feelings about how this all come about….

The complexity lies in the nature of the history of conflict with Ardea. The Romans sense that they have actually made some mistakes in how they have dealt with Ardea and the Rutilian people. The Rutilians are the people of this region and Ardea is their capital.

In order to determine how best to proceed they opt to form the triumviri coloniae deducendae “the group of three men for the commission of the settlement”. Their task to solve the problem of land allotment in relation to Ardea. A colony might just solve their concerns, but what should that colony look like? We explore the details!

Ardea, the central settlement of the Rutilians was south of Rome.

Rome and 441 BCE

It’s a brand new year and it’s time for some games, apparently. There are rumours that the decemvirs had promised the people a set of games, and it now seems to have fallen to the tribune of the plebs, Poetilius to get this event off the ground. 

Beyond the issue of games at Rome, there’s some interesting rumblings far to the south of Italy in Magna Graecia that might also become important later on.

Polychromatic terracotta head of a woman with brown hair and pale skin. From Taranto (Magna Graecia) end of 4th century BCE. Antikenmuseum Basel und Sammlung Ludwig, Inv. Kuhn 35.
Image courtesy of Wikimedia Commons.

Our Players

The Consuls 

442 BCE

• Marcus Fabius Q. f. M. n. Vibulanus
• Postumus Aebutius – f. – n. Helva Cornicen

441 BCE

• Gaius Furius – f. – n. Pacilus Fusus
• Manius (or Marcus) Papirius – f. – n. Crassus 

The triumviri coloniae deducendae

• Agrippa Menenius (Lanatus)
• Titus Cloelius Siculus
• Marcus Aebutius Helva

Tribune of the Plebs

• Poetilius

Sources

• Dr G reads Diodorus Siculus 12.34-5
• Dr Rad reads Livy ab Urbe Condita 4.11-12.
• Broughton, T. R. S., Patterson, M. L. 1951. The Magistrates of the Roman Republic Volume 1: 509 B.C. – 100 B.C. (The American Philological Association)
• Cornell, T. J. 1995. The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC) (Taylor & Francis)
• Forsythe, G. 2006. A Critical History of Early Rome: From Prehistory to the First Punic War(University of California Press) 

Sound Credits

Thanks to BBC Sounds (Beta) for sound effects and the fabulous Bettina Joy de Guzman for our theme music.

Wall painting – mistress and three maids – Herculaneum (insula orientalis II – palaestra – room III) – Napoli MAN 9022. While a much later artefact than the period this episode covers, this depiction of women helps reflect the world explored when it comes to women.
Image courtesy of Wikimedia Commons.

Automated Transcript

Provided by Otter AI

Dr Rad 0:01
Welcome to a brand new episode of The Partial Historians where we are tracing the journey of Rome and from the founding of this city. I am one of your hosts, Dr. Rad.

Dr G 0:13
And I am Dr. G. And boy, what a time we're in Roman history. It's the early republic. People are everywhere. Armies are in places, and the Romans they're a little bit all over the shop as well.

Dr Rad 0:28
They are, we are in around 443 BCE at the moment. And to give you a bit of a recap of what happened last episode, well, quite frankly, would not have been out of place on Keeping Up With The Kardashians. Dr. G.

Dr G 0:42
Well, you know, when you're a patrician, and you really like a girl, she has to be hot, doesn't she?

Dr Rad 0:48
Oh if she's a plebeian, hell yes. She has to be hot. I mean, what else does she bring into the relationship?

Dr G 0:53
Ouch.

Dr Rad 0:56
So we had this whole situation where Rome got involved in a civil conflict that had broken out in the nearby area of DIA. And it was between a patrician group and a probation group. And it is really interesting that even though our day out is seen as being culturally quite different to the Romans. There's apparently still patricians and plebeians running around…

Dr G 1:20
Look, I'm not going to lie. I don't believe Livy I don't, I don't think there's social –

Dr Rad 1:25
Now you mentioned it. God!

Dr G 1:27
I don't think their social structure is necessarily going to resemble that of the Romans at this point in time. We know that they come from a different language group.

Dr Rad 1:34
Yes.

Dr G 1:35
They seem pretty independent, and they certainly don't want Rome involved. What are the chances that their whole society is structured on the same premise as patricians and plebeians, that Livy and Dionysius of Halicarnassus really want us to believe other is the way that the Romans operated in this very early period of the Republic?

Dr Rad 1:53
I'll tell you why. Because Rome is the best and therefore everything they have everyone else wants. Anyway, so Rome ended up getting involved in this conflict over a very hot plebeian girl, which spilled out into civil war. Seems to happen an unnatural amount of times in the ancient world. And that ended up being really good for the Romans, actually.

Dr G 2:16
It did.

Dr Rad 2:17
Yeah.

Dr G 2:17
Yeah. The consul of 443, Geganius, he manages to secure a triumph out of that.

Dr Rad 2:23
Yup.

Dr G 2:23
Incredible stuff, really.

Dr Rad 2:24
It is it is.

Dr G 2:25
And he has a girl to thank and her name has not been recorded. And frankly, that's not good enough.

Dr Rad 2:29
You know what you're right. And also, back at home, things had been peaceful domestically, with consuls in charge. Yes. And apparently a census. Yes, was the official position of sense or being created because quite frankly, it's just too much paperwork for the consuls and are interested. They're not down for it. The Romans are living in exciting time. I know. So that was our quick recap of 443 BCE. Now, Dr. G, I'm going to take you into 442. All right, Dr. J. So I know that you're going to be very attached to Libby today because Dionysius does not exist.

Dr G 3:09
Oh, yes. deines is a holocaust. This is sadly missing for 442 BC. But I'm happy to give you what little I have been able to throw together by the way of other material

Dr Rad 3:20
that I really appreciate yet.

Dr G 3:24
So I start with Bratton, yes, he and his co author created an E two volume, which then became a three volume set of magistrates of the Republic. And this is a great text, really, I mean, such good work and anyway, we have the consuls. Marcus Fabius, son of Quintus son, grandson of Marcus, Vibulanus, a patrician

Dr Rad 3:52
Of course. He's a Fabian,

Dr G 3:54
and then post rumours, a beauteous father unknown grandfather unknown over corny can

Dr Rad 4:02
That's an unusual last couple of names.

Dr G 4:05
It is. Yeah, the whole thing is a little bit unusual. And booty is how via corny can is also a patrician. But corny can just makes me think of corns and I'm sorry, but I don't really want my political leaders to have skin conditions like that.

Dr Rad 4:22
Well, okay. So this pair is also the pair that is in living, and they know that they're coming into a difficult position because the year before with Ganey is getting a tryout for so good. Yeah. Really good. And quick, just capital owners. I mean, to be honest, it doesn't seem like he actually does a lot. But everybody just loves him to pieces by this stage. Because he's older. He's been around the block a few times. They all know who he is. So they're following a class

Dr G 4:52
act. Yeah. And he's one of those silver fox consuls. Yeah.

Dr Rad 4:56
And they know that this therefore means that they've got a lot to To try and live up to because 443 had been a pretty goddamn good year as far as everyone was concerned in Rome. And also because not just how the consuls have personally conducted themselves, but the shame of that decision that had been made to steal the US territory when most vulnerable, we're just going to take it. Yeah, that stain has somewhat been lifted by the fact that the Romans had managed to successfully help them out with their civil war.

Dr G 5:30
I'm interested that Rome felt a sense of shame. I mean, it seems so unusual and out of keeping with how Rome conducts itself in the future. But we'll leave that for now. It's interesting that once once upon a time, a bit like Darth Vader once had a soul.

Dr Rad 5:45
Well, you know, look, if I'm being very cynical, Dr. G, which, you know, is someone like me. I feel like this really is part of the class conflict story, because the people made that decision. When dad came to room with this border dispute issue. Seems like years ago now. It had been the people that had made that decision. Yeah, the wetlands should be out. Yeah, the patricians slash senators who are however you want to designate them. They've never been on board. With doing that they thought it was dishonourable, because it wasn't what they were asked. They were asked to settle a border dispute, not hey, do you want this land?

Dr G 6:27
But what if those borders were Roman?

Dr Rad 6:30
Well, exactly. And so I feel like this is just a constant dig at how the people don't make good political decisions.

Dr G 6:40
Yes. And I think this is part of the way that we can tell that we're in a very rhetorical presentation of history. Yes. And this is something that historians are always aware of is that and maybe Dionysius of Halicarnassus and Livi, are aware of this to a certain extent, as well. But historians are constructing a narrative. Yeah, from the available evidence. There are some things which might be considered facts. But not everything is effect. Yeah. And sometimes facts are only relevant to the extent to which they help you understand what might be going on somewhere. And you have to pick and choose, there are always too many things happening, or conversely, as a historian, not enough records. Yeah, to be sure. So you've either got too much information, and you have to decide what you leave out. Well, you don't have enough information. And you've got to try and fill in the gaps. And live in dinosaurs of how it can ask us I'm very much trying to fill in gaps,

Dr Rad 7:35
massively. I mean, earlier and public, I don't know what they use. I mean, I do, but I don't think there's sources would have been very detailed.

Dr G 7:42
The trouble is that they're using the fastI. So they're using controller lists, which is fine and dandy. And it's something that has existed that the Romans have looked after. And they're like, these are our lists. And the Romans love lists. We've seen this before. Hello, censorship. But they're also relying on some really early historiography that has been written by others, which unfortunately for us now no longer survives. Yeah, as far as we're aware, unless somebody turns up an amazing treasure. We still hold out hope always

Unknown Speaker 8:14
find it. Very interesting.

Dr G 8:18
So we've got Aeneas as an early source Fabius picked or as an earlier source, leukemias, Mesa who came up a couple of episodes ago is an important source as well for these guys. So we do know that there are other writers who have written histories previous to live in Dionysius, but how much they've got to add and where they're getting their material from? It's also open question.

Dr Rad 8:40
Absolutely. So essentially, these new consuls, no, they want to make an impression. They don't want to be overshadowed by this dynamic duo. This, you know, bad boys, a lot of them are really bad boys. Too good. To be honest. They don't want to be overshadowed by this

Dr G 8:56
Batman and Robin, these two who did everything right in their consulship. Absolutely.

Dr Rad 9:01
So they decide, look, we've somewhat atoned for what happened with our data? A couple of years ago, however, let's push that further. Oh, I have some details. Okay. All right. So the idea of pushing it further, obviously would be that this would truly force everyone to forget that Rome ever made a bad decision.

Dr G 9:22
We can wipe the slate clean and begin again. Yeah, I'm assuming correct me if I'm wrong, that you're referring to the trim weary colon a colon nine, a De qu Dindi.

Dr Rad 9:37
Like I wasn't gonna put it like that. Yes, that is what I'm talking about.

Dr G 9:41
This is the group of three men brought together basically for the commission of the settlement. So trying to figure out the land in respect to our day are you once and for

Dr Rad 9:55
all? Absolutely. So they forced through a decree that as The population of our day had been completely decimated by what had just happened that bizarre private conflict that started a civil war over a marriage, that Rome would therefore be setting up a colony in our data. Oh,

Dr G 10:16
yeah, I don't think this solves their shame issue at all.

Dr Rad 10:20
Wait, but wait, there is a very clever aspect to this. So obviously, they're going to need people to enrol in the colony, because they don't want our data to fall prey to the moleskin. So as we highlighted in the previous episode, very close to our data, and an enemy of Rome. So they don't want that happening. And our data used to be on good terms with room they want to maintain that all that sort of thing. So they set up the decree in this very particular way. So that it seems as though what they're doing is introducing something new, rather than overturning a decision made by the people, and assisted by the tribune of the plebs, I suppose, like, they don't want to be seen that they're going back on the decision of the people. Okay. But the senators privately get together. And that's never a good sign. But actually, in this case, it is they are actually for once doing something good, it's kind of shocking. So they decided that they're going to enrol as many colonists as they possibly can. Who are people from this culture, like from the culture associated with idea are going to be the colonists? Okay,

Dr G 11:32
Romans, they're going to give a dance back their land, in creating in our day and colony, yeah, populated by our dance.

Dr Rad 11:42
Yeah, so the only land that will be distributed to colonists will be the land that the Romans took, in this bad judgement, this border land area. So that's the land that they're splitting up amongst colonists. And they are not going to give any Roman person any of this land until all the they call them reptilians in this sense, but that that's just referring to the people from this culture ideas, the capital for these particular people. Those are the people who are going to be prioritised. So it's a very sneaky way of essentially handing the land back to the people of idea.

Dr G 12:21
So does this mean that our day from this point onwards is going to be technically classified as a Roman colony? Whilst being mostly populated by its native people? Yes. In her restaurant it is.

Dr Rad 12:34
And this is when those triangles that you were talking about the three men of course, right is they are appointed to help set up this colony. Yeah, and I have some names, but I suspect that this might be something that you also have.

Dr G 12:49
Well, I mean, that would be ideal, I suppose.

Dr Rad 12:53
Okay, so they are Agrippa Menenius, Titus Cloelius Siculus, Marcus Aebutius Helva.

Dr G 13:02
Hmm. Aebutius Helva sounds a little bit familiar.

Dr Rad 13:07
A lot of those names, I think sounds really like Menenius. Again, is, you know, is a name that we have heard before. So these are all people whose names we've we've heard before. And they're going to be in a difficult situation, because they have to tread lightly, okay, in this situation, because they don't want to be upsetting the plebeians in any way in terms of this whole land issue, because the people had decided that they wanted to take this land for themselves. And apparently, the politicians are also unimpressed that these other men that were chosen, I kind of get the impression that they're just not schmoozing as much as they should be or something. But they feel like they haven't somehow earned anyone's good graces. I don't really know what he's trying to get out with this. But they're basically not very popular with anybody.

Dr G 14:01
Okay, this is really interesting. I mean, I don't have much to add to the names or the politics that's going on here. Yes. What I will say is that having very little information, I spent time looking into what what does this tree Onvia group do? Yeah, actually. And so they're created by a senatorial resolution, apparently. Yeah. So the fact that people within the patrician class seem to be upset about the choices seems a bit odd.

Dr Rad 14:30
Well, I don't know if they're upset with a choice at first, or whether it's once their choice. Maybe it's not really very clear, but definitely I agree with you that they are set up by Senators, yes, totally a senatorial decision. This

Dr G 14:43
is a senatorial decision, and there is really strict limitations on the power that can be exercised. So basically, what happens is, the area for which land distribution is to happen is staked out in the sense that like, they're like This is only for this area that you're doing this thing in. And once that task has been completed, that group of three dissolves, right, so they don't get to continue on in their power. And this might be a bit of a consequence of the Romans feeling a little bit uneasy with people deciding that their job hadn't been finished and continuing on and then turning into a whole gang of a December it which, which continues to try and manipulate everybody for their own sake. So things will be dissolved, there is a, an endpoint to this work, and it only involves a very specific geography. Yes, for sure.

Dr Rad 15:37
So, the tri MD is are summoned eventually by the tribune of the plebs to trial for what they are doing. And this again, seems to be because even though the senators have been all like, gooey, super clever, and will have all these secret meetings, so beings have seen through this mean, like, but you're not giving us the letter, yes, that appears to have been a shroud that nobody's falling for eventually. But in order to avoid this prosecution, they're just like, you know, what, we're just gonna stay here, we'll just stand at our no problems. That way. We can't be called to trial.

Dr G 16:14
I guess I just live over here now.

Dr Rad 16:15
Yeah, I guess I just live in this area, you know, it's not so bad. We're pretty similar. And because of doing this, they are therefore not put on trial. And eventually, people respect them, because they reveal that even though they're apparently quite unpopular at first, they're actually very fair and just fan. And this is where Liberty chooses to envy.

Dr G 16:37
Oh, look, that I mean, that doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm not going to pretend that Livia is making sense, you know, there seems to be some missing information. And maybe Libby doesn't know what to do it. Dionysius of Halicarnassus because we don't have him. Yeah, I don't know what he said about it, clearly wrote about it, but it's missing. The only other piece of evidence that I have for this year comes from Diodorus Siculus, who yet again, focuses mostly on Athenian history and what's going on Sure, with the Greeks versus everybody else in the gym. And then, in one final sentence. Note that in Italy, the Roman sent colonists to idea and portioned out the land in allotments, which is true. To a certain extent, we don't get any more detail than that. So the the suggestion in Diodorus seems to be that definitely some Romans get sent to our data.

Dr Rad 17:33
This is actually a really good point, I suppose to highlight how reading a range of sources is so important. And also, as you were saying previously, about, you know, choices that historians make about what to include and what to exclude and how it shapes their account, because technically what Diodorus Siculus has said is true. But technically, if you look at the extra data that levy provides whilst is obviously hugely problematic, because it's clearly not making a whole lot of sense. There is a whole lot more potentially going on here than just that.

Dr G 18:10
Yeah. And it does seem that there is perhaps a broader strategy that the Romans are attempting to apply here even if they fail to do so with good grace and yeah, but that's that's also all I have

Dr Rad 18:24
yet but on the whole have been quite a peaceful you. Yeah, and that's what Livy kind of finishes up with. So that means that Dr. G, I feel like we need to go into 441 BC Yeah, forget

Dr G 18:35
442 It's done. It's dusted a day out the land has been a lot of nobodies returned 41

Dr Rad 18:43
It is doo doo doo doo. Now this also is going to be a very short year because once again, it's quite peaceful in terms of really a lack of external conflict and also not a hell of a lot going on inside a room either.

Dr G 18:56
I have some exciting things. Okay.

Dr Rad 18:58
Let's start with the consuls. Shall we? The consuls? Okay,

Dr G 19:01
it's 441 BCE. Who shall the consuls be? Gaius Furius, father unknown grandfather unknown. Pacilus Fusus. Oh, yeah, it's got a few names. patrician did you do? And Manius or perhaps Marcus, there's some some dispute over the praenomen Yeah. Papirius father unknown grandfather unknown Crassus. Sound familiar? That family is gonna have a long and illustrious history,

Dr Rad 19:35
although not necessarily attached to this particular line. No, that's not gonna sound like that's suddenly just occurred to me that that's not quite the right connection. But anyway, I do also have those names, although, as you say, there's that dispute over who's who but anyway, apparently, back in the days of the decimal years, they had pledged some games after the whole secession of The plebs thing had happened. And they decide that this is now the appropriate time for those games to finally take place. Remember those games? I actually went back, and I read through all of the second decemvirate.

Dr G 20:13
I don't remember those games being announced at all.

Dr Rad 20:17
I could not find a record of these games being mentioned. I mean, admittedly, it was very late at night. It's possible that in the haze of what was 449 that I somehow did not find it because I was tired, but I actually do not recollect this at all.

Dr G 20:32
Look, maybe there was some pamphlets up around Rome and somebody saw 100 faded quite severely by now. They're like, Wait a minute.

Dr Rad 20:39
Yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. Now I do also have attributed of the polar bears being names. Yes, portfolios. A name I quite like, but unfortunately, not a person to be like strategy. Oh, yeah. Typical Tribune, which means he wants to stir up trouble.

Dr G 20:57
I love a good. I love a good troublemaker.

Dr Rad 21:00
Yeah. So this guy was tribune of the plebs. Maybe for the second time, he may have actually been one of the tribunes from the previous year. He also had been elected on the promise that these games would be carried out this year.

Dr G 21:17
Wow. Somebody's reputation is riding on these games pretty hard. Now. I'm

Unknown Speaker 21:21
like, what games wouldn't it?

Dr G 21:24
Look? It's been a tough few years. You know, we could use some games.

Dr Rad 21:27
Yeah. Now Portelli is decides that well, okay, if the consuls have stolen my thunder by talking about the games, I know what I'll do. I'll say that the consuls need to put forward a proposal where the plebs are gonna get some land. Oh, boy,

Dr G 21:43
we've come full circle.

Dr Rad 21:45
I'm just like, Oh, my God, I land with you. I agree with you. But this seems a bit out of left field after everything. We've been dealing with land

Dr G 21:52
rights have been off the agenda for a little while. Until maybe like last year. Yeah.

Dr Rad 21:57
They're always gonna be on the agenda until there is a quality. Yeah, yeah, true. Anyway, so naturally, the patricians respond, no, there will be no land for you. Thank you very much. Then per Tullius is like, Okay, gotta take another strategy. Instead, I'm going to try really hard to get a vote from the Senate about whether we're going to have these military tribute ins with continental authority, or whether there are going to be consuls voted for in the next election.

Dr G 22:27
Oh, okay. He's bringing out the big guns, isn't it? Yes.

Dr Rad 22:31
And again, this goes for consuls.

Dr G 22:34
Wow.

Dr Rad 22:36
Poetilius then says, Alright, fine. Have your consuls, but I'll tell you what's going to happen. I'm going to disturb the levy. And do you know what their responses from the patricians?

Unknown Speaker 22:52
Levy. Whoa, you idiot. Go ahead. Most of the Livi see weekend. Good one.

Dr Rad 23:00
Wow. And that's all I have.

Dr G 23:04
This year is bonkers. All right. So yeah, I have none of those kinds of details. All I've got is Diodorus Siculus. Right. Do this is booked Well, section 35. Okay. And he names the consuls. Yes. The consuls names Correct. Right. Incredible stuff. Yes. So he has a source. But he also talks about what is happening in Italy to the south. So we're talking about Magna Grecia. Okay, essentially, yeah, this might become of interest later. So I'm gonna mention it now. So we're not in Rome anymore. We're talking about the inhabitants of three i Okay. Now, three, I heard

Dr Rad 23:42
of this place, because Spartacus ends up. Yeah, capturing the chance. Sorry.

Dr G 23:49
Three, it is apparently founded in and around this period, right, essentially in 443. Yeah. And so, you know, we're a couple of years away from that. But it is on the Gulf of Tarentum. So if you're thinking about Italy today, that is the Gulf of Toronto, right? It's in Calabria and it's considered to be the arch if you like of the boot. Acute spot, really nice spot. And they've got a situation where they're like, Well, what is our foundation story? Who are we really where did we come from?

Dr Rad 24:22
Let's get creative. Yeah, let's

Dr G 24:24
let's explore our feelings about that. I've

Dr Rad 24:27
got an idea. A virgin gives birth to do twin boys.

Dr G 24:33
If I spent some time thinking about it, and they send somebody out to Delphi to help them with it, because it kind of Yeah, because magnet raesha they're Greek by extraction. Yes. So the three is probably not Italian people that probably have Greek background, right? And they're like, Okay, let's ask the oracle at Delphi for help with our foundation story. And they come back and they're like, It's Apollo. Everybody. Apollo is our founder. Fellas and so that's great. And everybody settles down to enjoy their newfound sense of self within that so the three i Nothing really is happening in this year, but they're feeling themselves. Okay. Okay, feeling that vibe feeling that Apollo bonus. You know, we've got a bit of a connection to music and sense of the sun. You know, no wonder

Dr Rad 25:22
it's appealing to this then yeah. Wow. Okay, what a diverse group of facts. We have such a random year. I think they're having covered two years now. Dr. G, it is time for the partial pick

Dr G 25:44
Ah, yes, Rome, Rome, Rome. Can you succeed in winning 50 Gold eagles. I feel like as a caveat on the slight information we've been able to glean from the last two years that the chances are probably pretty low.

Dr Rad 25:58
A Yeah, I'm not having good feelings. Even though we're doing two years in one episode, two

Dr G 26:03
years worth of information, two years of Rome being able to excel and assert herself in some profound way. Will they come out on top? No. All right. First category military cloud?

Dr Rad 26:18
No.

Dr G 26:21
Just a straight up. No, definitely. No. All right. So zero straight off the bat. You use nothing to show for it. Yeah. Oh, ft. Diplomacy.

Dr Rad 26:31
Okay. I feel like there is something going on here at least in 442. In terms of what's happening with our day Are

Dr G 26:41
they are trying to figure something out? I mean, I don't know if it's exactly

Dr Rad 26:45
diplomacy, but they are trying to be diplomatic. Like they're handling the situation, it would

Dr G 26:51
see if we're reading Livi straight, which I mean, we could do. It's an idea is that idea Yeah. that the Romans are actually trying to make up for what has happened in the past and give a day and something back as part of this settlement, colonising thing that they're doing right now. Yeah, I suppose you could see that as diplomatic.

Dr Rad 27:17
Exactly. So I feel like maybe I don't know for

Dr G 27:23
sure, why not? Before, I don't feel very invested in what's happening in our day. But it's because I have no source material.

Dr Rad 27:31
At least we're finally getting to an end. And in my God, even though I know I did say at the time, like this is going to be a thing that comes back. But I really can't actually believe that we're still talking about it. So many episodes.

Dr G 27:44
just keeps going and going. Alright, so that's diplomacy. The next category is expansion. Definitely no, well, okay, hang on. Well, technically, if they're if they're trying to find a way to filter some Roman citizens into that Borderlands area over do get some colonists in there under the guise and ages that they're also trying to support the Danes to get back into that area.

Dr Rad 28:08
very crafty. Move. And technically, yes, you're right. I mean, it is now a Roman colonies. So

Dr G 28:14
technically, that's a little bit of an expansion. It

Dr Rad 28:18
is actually so I guess maybe, I don't know. Maybe another four. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Or is that too much? I mean, it's not like it's a huge error.

Dr G 28:27
Well, it's not a huge area, but it is quite strategic. So you think about it. Ostia is the port that Rome has that's attached at the end of the Tiber. Yes, but it is maybe useful to have other ports. Oh, sure. Yeah. So another day or is a port city it is on the coast. So in that sense, it maybe has a higher value.

Dr Rad 28:52
Okay. All right. So four, four, okay, for it is not too bad so far.

Dr G 28:58
We're twos.

Dr Rad 29:01
I don't feel like anybody's doing anything that extraordinary in this episode. No standouts? I don't think so. What about

Dr G 29:08
your friend, the tribune of the plebs.

Dr Rad 29:11
He's giving it everything he's got. If he hadn't said anything that year, maybe would have absolutely nothing to talk about.

Dr G 29:20
Does seem for bungled most things that he's been involved in, though. So poor man.

Dr Rad 29:24
Yeah. I mean, I you right. He's trying very hard, but

Dr G 29:30
I don't think it constitutes weird choices. You don't get to pull it off.

Dr Rad 29:33
It feels more like self interest or something like he's just trying to make a name for himself. goofed. Yeah. All

Dr G 29:39
right. So no, we're toast. No. All right, citizens score.

Dr Rad 29:42
Well, the reason why we've managed to fit two years into one episode, which is very uncharacteristic for us is because it's very peaceful, in Rome and outside of Rome, which can only really be a good thing for the citizens.

Dr G 29:57
Yeah, there's not a lot of conflict. And so we'd have to suspect that things are going all right, because we'd be we'd certainly hear about it if things were going wrong. Yes. And potel alias would have something meaningful to do with his role as tribune of the plebs. Yeah, perhaps if there was real conflict to be encountered.

Dr Rad 30:15
Yeah, like, sure put in and still have an issue with land. But that's been the case for like, decades.

Dr G 30:22
And technically, they've gained some land tax. Why recently tax so well, land rights is a discussion that's continuing to happen. Yeah, some people would have been given some land quite recently around our data.

Dr Rad 30:34
That's true. All right. So I actually think maybe we have to go for five like it's not.

Dr G 30:40
They haven't gone backwards, maybe even a six because some of them may have been included in this colony land.

Dr Rad 30:47
They did say that they weren't going to put Romans in until they ran out of reptilians, which would imply that there might be some Romans there. So yes, yeah. All right. That's six. So that means that we have a grand total of 14 Golden Boy, not great when you can see this is two years, but actually not as bad as I was thinking I was actually like, oh, my god, is this gonna be another zero?

Dr G 31:11
Not another zero? No, no, they've done quite well. I think if they get over 10. At this point, they're doing all right for themselves. It's a tough time this century.

Dr Rad 31:18
Yes, it is. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Dr. G. I have to say a bit of foreshadowing here. The next couple of years are going to be far more dramatic.

Dr G 31:28
Look, I'm very excited because Dionysius of Halicarnassus kicks back in somewhere really soon. I'll have something to say. All right. Until then, farewell.

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