Eyewitness: The Moth Radio Hour

0:00Did you know your dentist might actually spot serious health issues before your regular doctor does? That blew my mind when I learned it, but what happens in your mouth doesn't stay there. It impacts your heart, your brain, and your entire body. In fact, poor oral health is directly linked to long-term conditions like heart disease, diabetes, and even Alzheimer's. That is why what smell generation does matters. They can etch you with trusted experts who focus on a whole-body approach to dental care. They know that when your health isn't holding you back, you unlock a completely new level of confidence to show up for the people who matter most. Being proactive with regular screenings means catching potential issues early, playing the long game for your well-being, and taking real control of your future. Taking care of your smell really is taking care of your whole self. To learn more about the connection between oral health and overall health, visit smalgeneration.com-slash-moth. This is the Moth Radio Hour.

1:12I'm Meg Bulls, and in this show we have stories of rulings, verdicts, and decisions. A school board versus a children's book, a battle to allow black students to enter an Arkansas High School, and a man exiled to a Soviet labor camp. Our first storyteller, Toby Price, is an educator in Mississippi. He shared his story at a main stage event we produced at the Alamo Theatre in Jackson. Here's Toby Price. I was spinning the rack looking through the comic books that I wanted to buy before my dad paid for the gas. He walked up to him and he said, what's he got there? I said, I got a few books I can't decide on which one's to get. He said, get them all. See when I was little, I used to think that reading was boring, but it turns out it wasn't boring. I just needed to practice. My dad figured out to give me to practice.

2:13He needed to give me the books that I wanted to read. Captain America, the Avengers, Spider-Man, y'all I love, Spider-Man. Spider-Man was a nerd just like me. He was smart, I was smart. He married way out of his league, so did I. He could climb walls. I tried too many times and it didn't work. But all of that reading helped me become a better reader. It helped me decide what I wanted to do when I got, you know, grow up. I wanted to be a superhero, but sadly, I don't think I would look as good in the tights as they do. So I did the next best thing. If I wanted to be a hero, I decided to go to school and become a school teacher. And like most folks, as soon as I graduated school there, I was running a local restaurant here in town.

3:13I enjoyed it. I had regularity with Come See Me every day and I had one regular in particular who showed up one day with a friend. And she and the friend started speaking to me and turns out the friend was a principal and nearby elementary school. She said, I have a job for you. It's with the first grade class. I said, well, hmm. Okay, I did all my training with fourth grade. She said, that's not going to be a problem. All you have to promise me is that you just won't quit. And I went and met the class. And after spending about 10 minutes with these friends, I learned what happened to the first two teachers. They were, now I would call it challenging. But every day when I walked into that room, I wasn't going to quit. And I thought about what my second grade teacher used to tell us that everybody has something to contribute. And I thought that about my class as well. They taught me so many things. They taught me to be patient and they taught me to, most of all, see the value in every child.

4:18And I didn't know it at the time, but they were shaping the type of teacher I would become. But most importantly, the type of parent I would become later on. Class forward, about seven or eight years in time. And I have one, two, three kids now. My two oldest are autistic. They were diagnosed at an early age. My oldest is nonverbal. My son, my middle child, he's a little more verbal. We weren't planning on having the third. And I asked God, you're giving us the third child. Give me one to talk, God. And he said, all right, watch this. Person she was born. We always tell folks she was four going on 40. Now, I was going to do with them the same thing that my dad did with me. And I was going to share some of my favorite books with them. So with my son, we got out the Spider-Man comics and he loved Wonder Woman. Hmm. With my youngest, she was a reader. I got out Harry Potter and she loved reading about the Titanic and War of War II and nonfiction.

5:19But that was okay because we did find some books that we really enjoyed together. I had heard about a book on Twitter where I talked a bunch of my teacher friends and it was called I Need a New But by Don McMillan. It was a picture book for kids and I found a copy at the local Walmart and I read it to my kids and they loved it every second of it. I need a new but followed by I broke my but. My but is noisy. Yes. My personal favorite. And most recently we were at the Walmart and we found a copy of my but is so silly and we all kind of clamored over who was going to get the grab it off the shelf and read it first. And we got in the car and we read it on the way home and we laughed and we giggled because kids need those silly books, those funny books. That's what hooks them into being readers and becoming readers. Well, let's fast forward from that time to read across America week, Dr. Sucess birthday.

6:20I was an assistant principal in a school and my boss asked me to set up a zoom meeting with 12 second grade classes and a principal of a nearby building who would be their principal next year. I got you no problem. So all 12 classes logged into the zoom and I was the host and I looked in my watch and our guest reader was not there. I looked texture no answer. I called nothing. I told my boss what had happened and she said you go ahead and read. So I turned them around and looked in my shelf and there was I needed to hook these kids. I needed them to laugh. I was going to grab I need a new but my don Macmillan and I did. I went through and I showed them the pictures in the book and I read the story to them and they howled when they saw the little boys slide down the banister and think that he broke his butt because it was a crack in it. They giggled. They giggled when they saw him trying to sell his dog to afford to buy a new butt at

7:25the local store and y'all they were rolling when he thought about what if I had a rocket butt that could blast me into outer space. After I finished the story I saw some of my friends in the hall and they said Mr. Price we love that story. Thank you so much. I made me feel good. Maybe my heart grow nine sizes that day. And then I was called to the principal's office. Even when you're grown up that's no fun getting called to the principal's office. And my principal she sold me Mr. Price. We have talked about that book that you read today. I don't know if it was the most appropriate book. Some parents make complaint. And I said well that's not a problem so sorry. If someone complains I'm more than happy to talk to them and apologize and she said okay okay we'll have to talk about it some more later. So yes ma'am. I left her office and about 15 minutes later I got called back to her office because the superintendent wanted to see me at the district office.

8:28And I drove to the district office on the other side of town and walked into the building in the conference room with the superintendent and assistant superintendent and y'all they let me have it because I chose this book. Is this the kind of thing you find funny? I said yes before I came here yes. That day they sent me home suspended with pay pending investigation because parents are going to call. Two days later they call me back out to the district office. Y'all know I was a nervous wreck anyway. I've never been in trouble like that before with these folks ever. They call me back to the district office. And they did came to a decision and said Mr. Price we just can't get past this. I just can't get past why you chose to read this book. It was poor professional judgment and because of which we're terminating your contract effective immediately. And I froze. I'm a dad of kids with autism.

9:31We don't sleep at night. We just worry with our eyes closed on a normal day. You know how am I going to pay for therapy, medicine, build luxuries like food, lights and water. They told me you could sign this resignation and we can part ways or you go home and think about it and decide if you want to appeal this you'll have to find an attorney and we can start an appeal process and they left me in the room. And I called my wife. I told my wife what had happened. And she said we've been married 21 years. If you were wrong, I would tell you you were wrong. But you weren't wrong. So you're not signing that resignation. Thank you. She said pick your head up high. Don't let them see you cry and walk right out of that building and come home. And I did just that. I picked my head up high. They let them see me cry and drove right down the street to the dollar general for a box

10:35of little Debbie Zebra cakes. That's true. If you're going to eat your emotions, there's no better way than little Debbie Zebra cakes. Well after that my wife and I found an attorney and we began the appeal process. You know, I've never been in trouble before. So this is all new territory for me. But they wanted the appeal when a little bit like this. We had an expert witness come to say that reading kids silly books is good pedagogy or teaching they objected. We have evidence of other books objection. We have affidavits from other educators objection. See a pattern. I learned some interesting things that day that I did not know like the superintendent had no idea who she'll silverstein was. I'd never heard of no David. I'd never heard of a cow to caught a ward or worse off. And this one my wife my wife grabbed my leg and she'd never heard of Captain Underpants.

11:42And most importantly that day I learned that not one parent complaint was submitted into evidence. Not one. Great. Well the second day of the appeal was a lot more arduous than I expected. It was my turn to testify and they got to ask me questions and they all but accused me of being a liar, a thief and a pedophile. It was a terrible terrible day. The whole process is still ongoing and just stopping and thinking about it now makes me really sad. I had a friend who came to my house and told me, dude, after what happened I took Walter the farting dog off my shelf and took it home. He's a second grade teacher. I know. And it made me think that wow this is a big deal because teachers like him and teachers like me they're not going to read those fun silly books to kids like we want them to. And kids need those books.

12:43Not just because they're hilarious. If you can hook a child with the funny and the silly books and make them think wow I want to read that they'll stick around and read more and find out all of the wonderful things the books can be besides just funny and silly. Some days as a teacher you feel like Captain America. You're up there smiling high-fiving and changing lives and other days you're like Peter Parker sitting in that tiny broken down apartment. Changing your wounds literally and metaphorically and emotionally wondering is this all worth it? Am I even making a difference? Why do I do this? And you do it because it is the hardest job in the world and it's the best job in the world. And now while we wait for a decision I'm grateful that I get to sit at home with my three friends. We're reading some Wonder Woman, some Titanic. My oldest is developed a love for Harry Potter, Lemony Snicket and Spider-Man.

13:49And I get to share those books with those kids today. Thank you. That was former teacher and elementary school principal Toby Price. On April 28th, 2022 the school board voted to uphold his termination. There were two votes for one vote against and two members who were up for reelection abstained. The ruling cited that Mr. Price was fired on the grounds of incompetence, neglect of duty and for good cause. According to the appeal ruling and I quote, the book depicts images contrary to what the Harrison County School District teaches children. HCSD teaches children to keep their pants up and wear a belt. No sagging pants like the man on page 21. We work really hard to get children to understand that your bottom is your private part and that it is not something you should be out in public sharing.

14:53Toby says he feels like he's mourning part of his life that will never be the same, but he is committed to keep fighting. And he's just released his own children's book. The almost true adventures of Titus the Monkey and is currently working on the sequel. I asked Toby what his children thought of the ruling and he said his youngest daughter said, Dad, at least you stood up for something. I always knew you'd stand up for books in school. I didn't think it would be that book, but still. Coming up, a story from the front lines of desegregation in 1959 when the Moth Radio Hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic public media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Remember when you were a kid and summer meant total freedom as an adult, that same feeling

15:57comes from ditching your overpriced phone bill thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale. Right now every single one of Mint's plans is just $15 a month, even unlimited, switching over his painless. I got to keep my same phone, same number, and I was able to complete the setup all online in just minutes. No need to go to a store. Finally, stop worrying about monthly bills. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to MintMobile.com slash Moth. Cut your wireless bills to $15 a month at MintMobile.com slash Moth. That's it, there's no catch. Up front payment of $45 for $3, $90 for $6 or $180 for $12 a month, plan required. $15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 GB may slow when network is busy. Incluses up to 20 GB hotspot, capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. SeemintMobile.com Today's episode is brought to you by Alma.

16:57Therapy has been valuable for me, but getting started isn't exactly easy. The hardest part wasn't deciding to go, it was figuring out where to even begin. I remember scrolling endlessly, not knowing who took my insurance, wondering if I'd connect with the person on the other side. It just felt like a lot. That's why Alma really stands out to me. They make it simple to find a therapist who actually fits your needs. Their directory includes over 26,000 therapists nationwide and you can filter by things like insurance, identity and therapeutic approach. And 98% of their therapists accept insurance, which makes a big difference. Clients with insurance pay $20 on average, though it depends on your plan, and you can even use their free cost estimator to know what you'll pay up front. Most people find their match on the first try, and 95% connect with a therapist within a week. It just removes so much of that initial friction. But it started now at helloalma.com slash moth. That's helloalma.com slash m o t h. While September no longer means back to school for me, there's something about the change of season that makes me want to get organized.

17:59My New York City kitchen never has enough storage space, so I bought Wayfair's small kitchen island with storage, and all my bowls finally have a proper home. Wayfair made the whole process painless. Wayfair focuses on delivering quality, value and confidence, so your home can handle real life. Your verified lineup gives you extra confidence, thanks to a strict 10 point quality check performed by product experts, whether you're organizing after back to school, refreshing a room for autumn, or getting ready for Halloween decorating, you can shop thousands of products across any budget using filters and real customer photos. With over 20 million verified five star views, you always know you're making the right choice. Transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. In Wayfair rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-r.com. Wayfair every style every home.

19:01This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Meg Boles. In 1957, nine black students were enrolled in Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas. One governor, Orville Fobbus, called out the National Guard to prevent the students from attending the school. The story made headlines across the country and images of the National Guard blocking black students from entering the school were featured on every news outlet. President Eisenhower issued an executive order, commanding that the National Guard support the integration efforts. The nine students, who later became known as the Little Rock Nine, were finally allowed to enter the school, but over the course of that academic year they endured violence and threats. Governor Fobbus continued his fight to stop integration, and in September of 1958 he signed an act that rather than allow black children to be educated with white children closed all of the high schools. When the schools finally reopened in August of 1959, our next storyteller, Dr. Sibyl Jordan

20:01Hampton, then 15 years old, followed in the footsteps of the Little Rock Nine and became the only black student in a class of 544 white students. A note to listeners, when Dr. Hampton shared the story of her experience, she quoted some offensive language that was used against her. From a main stage we produced in partnership with Seattle Arts and Lectures, here's Dr. Sibyl Jordan Hampton. In 1982 I lived and worked in New Rochelle, New York. One day I got a letter from the Little Rock Central High School Class of 1962 inviting me to participate in the 20th reunion. To put it mildly I was shocked because over those 20 years I had never heard anything about a reunion, had heard nothing from my classmates, and to be perfectly frank, I

21:06had no desire to go into that school again, or to be with those people. But this letter presented me with a challenge and an opportunity as I thought about going back to the scene of the crime. During 1957-58 the Little Rock Nine encountered many trials and tribulations. I was aware of what they encountered because I saw things on ABC, NBC, CBS, red articles in national magazines and in our local newspaper. I was aware of the harassment, bullying, the physical violence. And at the end of all of this, Governor Orville Fulbers declared that the 1958-59 school

22:07year would not be and he closed all three high schools in Little Rock. The NAACP Legal Defense Fund was very active in pursuing this matter in federal courts and there was finally a decision that the schools would reopen in fall 1959. And I, along with four other students, were selected to begin the school desegregation yet again. As a frallicking junior high school student, I walked every day with my friends to our all black junior high school laughing and talking and we went right in front of central high school most days. But on that first day that I began high school, my father stayed home from work and after

23:08breakfast he prayed and he prayed for me to be calm, to be brave and to remember that the Lord was my shepherd and would take care of me. And then I waited for Reverend J. F. Henderson and his son Frank and Sandra Johnson to come and pick me up so that we could drive the six blocks from my house to Little Rock Central High School. As we drove, there was just no talking in the car and I wondered what's going to happen. And I also wondered how it was going to be for me because I was going to be alone and there was not another black student in the 10th grade and I was 15 years old. When we got to the school, we looked out and there were no crowds and the press was not

24:09visible. And so I thought we're not going to at least have to fight our way into the school today. And as we went along this really lovely winding sidewalk to the steep, stately stairs to the school, it became clear that from top to bottom there were Arkansas National Guardsmen standing. And I thought, are they here because they're going to have to come into the school to rescue us? And I was very, very frazzled as I walked up those steps past all those Arkansas National Guardsmen wondering if they really would be willing to protect us. At the front door, we were met by the principal, Mr. Matthews, and by the assistant principal, Mrs. Elizabeth Huckabee. She and only she greeted us very warmly.

25:10We went to her office. She explained our schedules, gave us instructions on how to move around the building and would be taking us to our home rooms. There was no one in the halls because we did not come to the school until after the school day had begun. We went to my home room on the first floor in the Norfolk corner of the building. And as we got near the door, I noted there was a door to the outside and I thought, okay, and it was really a set in nature for me to look for an escape route. My home room teacher was at the door. She pointed me to my seat in the middle row. We were all seated alphabetically. And I knew that she wasn't going to be my ally. And the bell rang for the first class period to begin. I was more than apprehensive because I was going to be in the hallway with all these students

26:16for the first time. And I was alone and I was 15 years old. My parents had reminded me that as I went out into the hallway that I needed to hold my head up, that I needed to be very aware of everything that was going on around me, but that I always needed to look straight ahead. And I should never cry. As I went down the hall, I could hear this echo and the echo was a nigger is coming. There's a nigger coming. And then the students moved to the sides toward the wall and they cleared a path so that no one was near me as I walked along. This only went on for a week or two and then it stopped. But what happened is that no one looked at me.

27:17No one smiled at me and no one regarded me positively. In my home room, the same home room for three years, the only time any student in that room ever heard my voice was when it was my turn to read the Bible after the pledge of allegiance to the flag. I always read Psalm 121. As a witness, I will lift my eyes to the hills from once come with my strength. My strength comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth. It was striking to discover that over three years, nothing changed. That I was actually shunned. We were shunned. And I felt I was treated like a ghost. But most of all, treated is if I didn't matter. So when May 1962 came around, I was really ready to dance a jig.

28:26I was so happy because the goal we had was to be successful as students and to be successful in staying the course and to also to demonstrate that as foot soldiers that we were very proudly standing on the shoulders of the war year, Little Rock Nine. There were 544 people in my graduating class and I was the only black student. Graduation took place in Quigley Stadium, which is the football stadium. I had never been in Quigley Stadium because by law, we were not as black students permitted to attend any activities. Sports we were not allowed to be on any sports teams and could not be in any clubs or organizations. That evening, only our parents could come, no family or friends, because they felt there

29:27might be violence. It was just me. But there were police ringed around the outside and in time. I walked across the stage and as usual, there was just silence around me. And then some wise acre guy yelled out, there goes black beauty. And I thought, from first to last, only insults. As I sat down, the students around me were talking about graduating and they were talking about whom they were going to miss. And I thought, not a damn soul. I'm not going to miss anybody and I certainly don't plan to ever be here in this space ever again in my life. And then I am in 1982 with the sletter inviting me to the 20th anniversary.

30:28And I talked to my parents about it. And I said, I really think that I need to go back to see what has happened, what does it like. And I told my parents, I want you to come and go with me because they could never come into the school. They were not permitted to come into the school. And so I said, I want you to see this cast of characters who were around me. But also, I just want to have this moment that you can be in that building with me. And so I flew from New York and I said, we'll just go to the banquet. There was some other activities. And the banquet was in the school in the cafeteria. We arrived and we were met at the door by a guy from my home room who had never spoken to me before. As was truth. Everybody else in the home room. And he said, hi, I'm so glad you're here and I'm responsible for you being invited. I wanted you to come. You said, but everybody else in the class is uncomfortable and so they will not sit with

31:32you and your parents. And I was, there was a part of me that was really quite, I was going to what the hell and my parents gave me the eye. And so we proceeded to go in and to sit with Ron. But during the course of the dinner, students came over and some students said that they really regret it never reaching out to me and other students congratulated me on being very brave to come to a place where people had treated me as if I didn't matter and they didn't want me. And I thought that's an understatement. Okay. I did get an award that evening for being the most educated.

32:36But I had failed to note that there was going to be a sock hop. And some of the people who had been friendly to me were very insistent that I needed to come to the sock hop. Stay for the sock hop because during the course of our time at Central, we had never had the opportunity to. Together. And I'm thinking, but my parents gave me another eye. And so I stayed for some of the sock hop and actually it was, you know, it was okay. But I was very fatigued and so we went home early. And the way home I was talking to my parents and I said, when we first arrived, what I was reminded of is that you can pass laws, but you can't legislate things of the heart. And that which matters to me and that which makes me matter as a person has everything

33:37with things of the heart. And that, rather than getting stuck there, I also learned this wonderful lesson about the power of one. And that was that Ron was with us and he gave others an opportunity to be less cowardly. But I also thought, okay, as a result of all of this, I have learned that roses do grow in concrete and that I have to have the strength to keep looking. Dr. Civil Jordan Hampton graduated and went on to earn a bachelor's degree from Earl M. College in Indiana. A master's degree in elementary education from the University of Chicago and a master's and doctorate from the teachers college, Columbia University in New York City.

34:38She then went on to have a career as a higher education administrator, a leader in philanthropy and as a political advisor. In 1996, Dr. Hampton moved back to Little Rock to serve as president of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation which focuses on racial and social justice. Since returning to Little Rock, Dr. Hampton has become more involved with the Little Rock Central High Class of 1962. She's attended other reunions and has recently been helping out with the planning for the 60th, which she will be attending. Dr. Hampton now refers to Ron Hughes, who she mentioned in the story and his wife, Catherine as dear friends. You can find out more about Dr. Hampton and any of the storytellers you hear in this hour by visiting our website, themoth.org. Coming up, Soviet prison camps, the KGB and a mug shot when the Moth Radio Hour continues.

35:47The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic public media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. We all have those effortless pieces that form the backbone of our style and quince makes filled to the brim war droves of them accessible. They work with luxurious materials like washable silk, organic cotton and premium mongolian cashmere with sweaters starting at just $50. Not to mention their accessories. I got the Esme Suede shoulder bag in chocolate brown and I've been wearing it constantly. It's well structured enough to keep it shape even when it's full but slouchy enough to feel effortlessly chic. Everything in their line costs 50 to 80% less than comparable boutique labels because they partner directly with ethical factories and skip high retail markups. You can even upgrade your living space with their direct to consumer home collection, featuring premium sheets, bath towels and furniture. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for a most at quince. Download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash moth. Like free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, now available in Canada in the

36:48UK too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash moth. I was grabbing a drink at a coffee shop in my neighborhood in Brooklyn last week and noticed they used square. Check out was quick, I got a text receipt in seconds and everything just felt smooth and modern. What's amazing is how Square keeps building new tools to make running a business even easier. They've integrated AI features that analyze your daily operations and highlight top sellers or cost saving opportunities automatically. You get total control over your money with tools that automatically route funds into savings for upcoming expenses. Best of all, it works effortlessly alongside the scheduling, payroll and point of sale features you already rely on every day. Square launched its most powerful tools yet, designed to give local businesses a competitive edge without the complexity. If you're ready to sell smarter, run faster and stress less, right now you can get up to $200 off Square Hardware at square.com slash go slash moth. This is squ-a-r-e.com slash go slash moth. Run your business smarter with Square.

37:48Get started today. Here at the moth podcast, we love bringing you these episodes every week. But did you know that you could watch the stories as they are recorded live? This fall, the moth main stage tour comes to a sitting near you with tight rope, stories from the brink. Five brand new, true stories discovered by moth directors about balancing without a net trusting your gut and walking the tight rope. Visit the moth.org slash tight rope to find the moth main stage tour in a sitting near you. That's the moth.org slash tight rope. This is the moth radio hour. I'm Meg Boles and our final story in this hour comes from Victor Levinstein. We shared it in a evening we produced at the Walter Kerr Theatre in New York City. Here's Victor live at the moth. In the spring of 1944, in the Soviet Union, when I was 21 years old, I was arrested by

38:54the key GB and brought to the main political prison in the Soviet Union, the infamous Lubyanka prison in Moscow. A bunch of people in the uniform of KGB made me face the wall, slip search me, cut my hair, took my fingerprints and then with hands behind my back, I was led to a joining room. There was an old-fashioned wooden camera on a tripod. In front of this camera was a chair for the prisoner being photographed. The photographer took a picture. The chair was turned. The second picture in profile was taken and I was led out of the room. Then the interrogation started. Together with 12 of my friends, I was charged with conspiracy to assassinate Stalin.

39:58It was absurd. Nobody even thought about plotting to kill Stalin. Our real guilt was that we were well educated and smart youngsters. We read a lot and we read good books, including American, Hemingway, Folk, Their Steinbeck, and we learned from this book that there was a free world behind the border of our country. There are three people out there and that we live in the closed, totalitarian state. Three thinking, three talking, work crimes in the Stalin Soviet Union. So I found myself in the Lubyanka prison. I was taken to a tiny cell, four by five feet, with no windows. The sleep was prohibited by the daytime and the questioning was going on the whole night.

41:03Under this sleep deprivation and under the hail of courses and threats and insults, seven of my friends confessed in plotting assassination of Stalin. It was not the best time of my life at all. After sleepless days and nights, I was in the same conscience state. My will was always broken and I confessed, but I confessed only in being an anti-Soviet person. But gother somehow my rest of my strength and refused these charges of terrorist activity against Stalin. I was sent to a labor camp for five years. Being an engineering student at the time, I lied that I am an engineer and this lie saved

42:10my life because it made me valuable for them. So I survived and five years later in the spring of 1949, my prison term was coming to an end. Couple of days before my release, I made Alexei Krovtssov. He was a senior work designer and I had met him before in another prison. He was a nice guy, a couple of years older than me, smart, energetic, business like the former military pilot, a captain, convicted for some misconduct. He was not a political prisoner. And because of this, he was given this job in fact, camp commander deputy. And he lives in separate tiny room fence of the barrack.

43:11He invited me to celebrate my release. We ate talk and at one point he said, if I would like to see my personal file, he had taken it out of the office because my order for my release has been issued for the next day. And my file, there was my verdict and the mark shot made in Lubanka prison, face and profile. The picture get loose from my file and needed to be glued back in. I look at the picture. It accompanied me on all my journey through three prisons, three transit prisons, three labor camps. I just felt that I wanted to have it badly. And I ask Alexei, if he would give me the photograph, I was thinking, asking the photographer

44:17in the camp. I knew him. Maybe he can make me a copy and I said that original I will return to him. And Alexei said, where are you crazy? Who can make your copy? It's a visual photograph. For this copy this guy can have a new prison turn together with me. But I said, let me try. And I promise you that I will bring you the picture back in the end, first thing in the morning. So he gave me the photo. I ran to the photographer. But no matter how I persuade him to make a copy he refused, it was too dangerous. In the morning after the signal to wake up, I ran to Alexei to return the picture. The last sort of people was sending at the entrance to his room.

45:21I made my way through the crowd. Alexei was lying in bed, face down, the pillows and sheets were red with blood. And then Axe was sticking out of Alexei's head. A lot of hardened criminals were serving time in the same camp. I was thinking, what's the poor Alexei? Just a few hours ago we talked about our future life on outside sitting on the very bed where they did it right now. And then I realized that I still have the picture. And I decided that my file will manage without it just fine. But the problem was how to smuggle it out of the prison. I knew that they will search me very carefully before my release.

46:24So I developed a plan. The water supply, the water supply to camp was brought in water tank trucks. And I knew one of a truck driver. So I gave him the picture and arranged to get it from him on outside after my release. And the plan worked and I got my picture. After five years in prison camp, I was sent to exile for life. So I found myself in the Godforsaken place named Eki was the North Eastern Kazakhstan. The place didn't exist on geographical maps at the time. There was no city, no settlements, nothing.

47:25The only big construction site nearby. So I was allowed to live there. I had a good job at this construction project. But there was no hope to continue my education, to get engineering degree to return to normal life. Four years in my exile, friendly cosmic forces intervened in my fate. Stalin kicked the bucket. He died. People was warning, but for me spring wasn't there. And after soon after his death, the general ethnicity was announced and my exile was over. I came back to Moscow and at this time Stalin was still lying in Mausoleum.

48:34And I wanted to see him in the coffin. For me, Stalin was a personification of all evil. I knew that millions of innocent people were shot. Millions died in labor camps, murdered by a heartbreaking work and hunger and cold. I was thinking about my father who died in the labor camp behind the polar circle. Squares my friends and relatives with the same destiny, nine years of my life. I just wanted to see him in the coffin. When I saw him, Stalin's appearance disappointed me. I was expecting to see the devil, Lucifer. But in front of me, in glass coffin, laid very ordinary, most stashed man with low forehead

49:41and pop-market face. But the point was not his appearance, but the fact that I saw him dead in the coffin. My life, after Stalin's death, it was still Soviet power. It was there. And KGB was there. And living in Moscow, I had strange feeling from time to time that my free life was contemporary or something. Especially I felt that when I walked close to the KGB headquarters in Moscow. And I had this feeling that I belong there. And that's the fact that I'm walking as a free man because of somebody's oversight.

50:41And sooner or later they will catch me. We immigrated to the United States in 1980. And this feeling disappeared only when I first time walk on Florida Beach. And so they athletic. I told myself, look, the ocean is between me and KGB. I am finally safe. When we immigrated, the country we were living was still the Soviet Union. And I knew that all our belongings were checking very carefully. And I didn't even hope to take my precious Lubanka mark shot with me. It was illegal. It was property of KGB.

51:42So I left the picture with my cousin. Couple of years later, I received a letter with a Belgian address. My KGB photograph was in the letter. My cousin and David Stemp collector met Belgium Stemp fan at the Philatelle show in Moscow and asked him to send it to me to America. Now since that, this picture hangs in my house and reminds me daily. I survived deadly Soviet prisons in labor camps. That Stalin has been dead for 69 years and I am still alive.

52:43Thank you. This summer, this summer in three months, God willing, I turned 100. Who do you imagine my shock and frustration at this passage of my life, seeing as a former KGB officer being president of Russia and just deadly war on Ukraine? I was born in Ukraine.

53:44I was born in beautiful southern city of Nikolaiyev. The best time of my life, my childhood I spent in Ukraine. And I see it. I see it was going on as a KGB man trying to bring free Ukraine back to the prison camp of the Soviet Union. My heart is with brave men and women of Ukraine and that's why I decided to tell you this story. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Victor Levinstein was born in Ukraine in 1922. He immigrated with his family to the US in 1980 at the age of 58 and started a successful

54:49career designing underground mining machinery and received three US patents. After retiring, Victor wrote two books in Russian and recently published a book entitled 13 Nasty Little Snakes, the Case of Stalin's Assassins. Victor says, as a seven-year-old, he was lazy and his parents insisted he read. That's when he found the three musketeers and understood that reading was one of the greatest joys of his life. As he got older, he would read in exchange books with his friends which led him to discovering a world beyond the Soviet Union which eventually made him a threat to and target of the KGB. Recent polls now show that the popularity for the Russian dictator Joseph Stalin who was responsible for the deaths of millions of Soviets is rising again. Thanks in part to his greatest admirer, the former KGB officer Vladimir Putin. To find out more about Victor and how you can support the people of Ukraine, go to our

55:52website, themoth.org. That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us again next time. This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, Katherine Burns and Meg Bowles who also hosted and directed the stories in the show. Co-producer is Vicky Merrick, Associate Producer Emily Kouch. The rest of the Moth Leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin Janess, Jennifer Hickson Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham Marina Klucce, Suzanne Rust, Brandon Grant, Inga Gladowski, Sarah Jane Johnson and Aldi Kaza. Moth Stories are true, is remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. The music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound, podcast music production support from Davy Sumner.

56:52We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including Executive Producer Leo Wies Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story and everything else good to our website, themoth.org. I famously love a giveaway. To a point, I will happily wear a swag bag hat or a super soft hoodie, but I get enough that I am really picky. But the other day I was walking home from yoga and I realized that my socks and water bottle were both gifts from companies who use Vista Print. And this is why I'm always shopping on Vista Print for the Moth. I know we need great quality and effortless ordering and there are endless items to choose from all in one place. Now everyone's vying for our car magnets. I can barely keep up.

57:53It's amazing how the right custom print expert can help bring your unique ideas to life and inspire you to keep growing. Vista Print. Princh your possible. Right now, new customers get 20% off with code new20 at VistaPrint.com. Remember, that's 20% off at VistaPrint.com using code new20.