Navigating the Gray: The Moth Radio Hour

0:00Hey LA, the Moth Grand Slam is coming to you on October 9th at the Bing Theater. 10 Winning Storytellers with Never Before Herds Stories Unlike at an open mic, each of these stories is coached by a Moth Director. Like me. We connect with the storytellers before the show. Here's sneak peek of the story they're going to tell and offer pointers and advice to help them as they continue to craft their tale for the stage. It's a lot of fun to coach these shows and even more fun to see them live. Don't miss the Moth Grand Slam. Find tickets at the Moth.org slash Grand Slam. That's the Moth.org slash Grand Slam. This is the Moth Radio Hour and I'm Fanzo Lecayo. And I'm Aliza Cosme. We're the co-host of the Moth's podcast, Grown, a show about what it means to grow up. But this week, we're your host here on the Moth Radio Hour and today we'll be listening to stories about

1:02being stuck in the in between. On Grown we say you're never fully grown. There will always be those in between moments in our lives and how we navigate that time and space help shape who we are. But there are many ways to feel like we're living in a gray area. Take our first storyteller, Carl Cannon. Carl told this story in 2016 at the Cooper Union in New York City. Here's Carl. I remember the first time I walked into the Fort Leavenworth maximum security prison. No, not as an inmate. But as a military policeman recently assigned a prison duty for the first time. It made me think back to a time when I was 19 years old and I raised this my right hand and I

2:03joined the U.S. Army to become a military policeman. This was 10 years later. 10 years later I was a damn good military policeman who didn't want prison duty. Why? Maybe because what made me good had some of the people occupying that institution and I didn't want a reunion. So you got to know I did everything I could to get out of that duty. I even took an extra 30 day leave hoping that at the end of which the army would change its mind. When I returned from that leave the Sergeant Major gave me two options. He said one, take your ass down in that prison. Two or face a court martial. Suddenly prison duty didn't seem that bad. So I went into the four-wing housing unit with my trainer or 15-year veteran by the name

3:11of Pierce. When we walked into that housing unit I was stunned. They weren't locked down. They were all out and about and do I need to repeat I said maximum security military prison. That means army made the Air Force Marines coast guard. 40% of that population was being was there doing a life sentence for murder. A hundred percent of that population had been trained to kill. It's arguably the most dangerous prisons on the planet and they weren't locked down. I was a little nervous. It's not an understatement. We went into the guard cage and we were debriefed by the outgoing 12-hour shift. When they left Pierce instructed me go check the housing unit. I'm like

4:14he said look sarcastically rookie you're in the housing unit it has five floors. 50 cells on each floor 25 face out to the right 25 face out to the left it's like a warehouse in the back of each floor is an unauthorized area for inmates there's a clipboard sign off on improving that you check for trouble. Never forget that I went out into the population. I was there to observe the inmates moving amongst that population I was quickly aware that they were observing me. I remember going by tables where they were playing cards and they would slap the cards down on the table and then look at me all of them they would slap the dominoes down on the table and then give me the look.

5:16It took me about an hour to finish that check those housing unit checks. When I returned to the guard cage Pierce looked at me and he said sarcastically rookie where you're in. I said I was checking the housing unit like you told me he said look rookie all you have to do is go around the third floor find that clipboard there's a stairwell back there that the inmates can't use use the stairwell go up to the fourth floor use that stairwell go up to the fifth floor you can be up to the eighth floor back in this guard cage in 10 minutes it's called a shortcut rookie you was so condescending I want to hit him in his mouth but that option sounded better than what I just did through about 10 o'clock that night he gives me this training script to read over the loudspeaker I looked and it was like

6:21music to me I read it it's locked down locked down all inmates locked down he said when you close the tears when you shut the tears down shut them down in sequence start with the eighth floor I said why the eighth floor he said that's where the rookie inmates are he said when you close it you hit these two buttons and all 50 cells on that floor were closed at the same time it was actually the first time it actually sounded like I thought prison was gonna sound eighth floor boom those cages closing seventh floor boom fifth floor boom third floor yay they're locked down safe a short time later an inmates coming around the third floor towards the guard case from the third floor right side he's wearing a towel he's carrying a toothbrush I look at peers peers gives me to look what's she gonna do so I did what I thought

7:28peers would do I cursed at the end man what the fuck you doing out of yourself he surprised me started cursing back at me so now we're having this war words curse words except his curse words were better than mine I was losing the battle of words so I went back to a training script that peers had given me and I shouted go to the bench when you send an inmate to the bench in the open and entry you are effectively sending them to the hole that's the jail within the jail and truth be told I could have let that inmate back in his cell by be honest I was power tripping I was trying to impress peers a few minutes later the guard commander came into the housing unit entered our guard cage he said can and what happened I lied I knew the guard commander knew I was

8:29lying he looked past me at peers and he said peers tell me what happened and I'm thinking all and then peers stunned me and he said that's exactly how it happened to her and I'm like whoa that's when I started to understand the principle of us versus them us being the guards them being the inmates them being wrong no matter what we did because peers backed in me backed me I started lining up with us I got a little size on me so anytime one of us were told no buying inmate they called me I was the best at turning unknown into a yes and because I lined up with us I promoted up pretty rapidly in the system less than a year later I was in charge of the shoe that's a special

9:30housing unit the hole unlike upstairs where everybody is out and about in the hole you locked down 24 seven maybe an hour in a cage I had 16 guards I'm in charge four of them ran the guard cage each other guard had 25 cells assigned to them they reported to me I got a call that the inmates had a revolt on one of our floors because we had us down there the inmates had trashed the tier that means they had blocked the toilets there was feces urine water food garbage everywhere I went down to restore order I passed cell one thirty eight the inmates inside said CEO can I talk to you I said what

10:32you got he said seal I want you to know I didn't do this and I believe me I said okay don't worry about it clean up best you can I'll handle this about 4 30 a.m. it was time for the breakfast scarves to come into that very floor it was my job to open the tunnel door to let those breakfast scarves in I had ordered that the lights come on and that housing unit I was walking towards that door when I went past cell one thirty eight and through my peripheral he was hanging I get on my radio immediately the guard assigned at that roll of cells was on his radio we were shouting into it open one three eight open one three eight the cell door starts to move open slowly I'm trying to

11:34muscle it open faster as soon as there was enough of an opening I ran into that cell I hoisted the body up the guard jumps on top of the toilet he enties the sheet there wasn't enough room to do CPR in the cell so we laid him out on the floor in front of the roll of cells it was my job to do the mouth the mouth the guard was going to do the chest compressions I will never forget when I put my mouth on the inmates mouth how cold it was we were we had to keep the CPR going until the medics came and pronounced it one way or another it was 10 minutes before they arrived during that time frame during that commotion the other inmates on that floor woke up came to the front of their cells they saw us doing the CPR he was so cold they started yelling at us killers he's so cold

12:41killers I got mad no not at the inmates I got mad at me I knew somebody took a short I knew we had all been trained to take short because there was no way they were checking his cell and he was so cold I left the prison that morning mad determined never to return the next day I get a call from the captain the cat I told the captain I do what you got to do I don't care court marshal me I'm not going back he said cannon you're gonna be all right I'm not worried about you he said you've been through worse you've seen worse you will get through this he said

13:42I'm concerned cannon it's the men that work for you if you don't come back the amount of respect they have for you I'm worried about what it'll do to them and I thought about that and I thought about going back and I thought about that inmate and cell 138 who I learned had gotten the dear John letter that day that inmate who was living in a life of despair who was depressed whose last statement to me was I'm innocent and that was important to him I thought about those men that respected me and so a couple days later I did go back but I went back different I went back with a battle cry called respect and respect meant listening to people listening to

14:46the inmates and their stories and their regrets when I listened I learned that most inmates if they could go back in time to that first incident that led to the second incident knowing what they know now I learned that they would not repeat the same act I also learned that inmates are people human beings and human beings deserve respect too so I started using words that were different please thank you and because we started using those words the tone between the inmates and the guards began to change to a tone of mutual respect I retired from the military and I left the

15:47bureau prisons it's been over 10 years since I've been gone but I have never forgotten those stories I have never forgotten that young man and sell 138 and I take those stories today and I support at risk kids I put your eyes on me I was the best at keeping them in and today I'm a part of you I'm one of the best at keeping them out thank you that was Carl Cannon Carl has continued his work with at risk kids he launched the Elite Outreach program in 2006 and his hometown of Peoria, Illinois Elite employs ex-fellans to assist educators

16:52with supporting youth who are overcoming difficult circumstances the results have been a 70 to 88 percent rise in academic standing Carl's autobiography titled full cannon co-authored with Lance Zedrick is available on Amazon for Carl being pushed in the gray space was a good thing because it helped him confront his biases made him realize it isn't always us versus them and has led him to the work he does now Fondo can you remember a time where you found yourself stuck in a gray space yeah I find myself in the gray space a lot I see myself as an empath and I think a lot about how people view me and the decisions I make and the choices I make and so it helps me change perspective in a moment a man moves across the world to meet his birth family when the Moth Radio Hour continues the Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic public media in Woods Hole Massachusetts

17:56this is the Moth Radio Hour I'm your host this time Aliza Cosme and I'm your other host Fondo Lekayo in this episode we're talking about being caught in the in-between world Fondo we've spoken in the past quite a lot about how being brought up surrounded by a mix of cultures from our parents and our communities has impacted our lives and often in a positive way how do you think that being caught between multiple world has made you a more whole person well I feel it's definitely in a way a double edged sword and one hand you're not fully immersed into one culture or one place so you may reach out and find what fits best for you or doesn't fit best for you so in that self exploration in my opinion can be a very long journey but a worthwhile one well like we heard in Carl's story realizing that the world isn't just black and white can be overwhelming but it can also help us learn more about ourselves that is totally true especially for our next storyteller James Han Mattson James told this story at a main stage in Traverse City

18:59where we partnered with City Opera House and Enter Lock in Public Radio here's James live at the Moth in Michigan when I was 17 my North Dakota parent sat me down at the dining room table and showed me a letter from my birth family I didn't know how to respond to this because I tried so hard to erase that part of myself I've been adopted at H3 from Korea and I didn't I didn't really know anything Asian let alone Korean and at school I often got teased because of my race so I distanced myself from my race seeing Asian as something to be mocked and ridiculed it got so difficult that I had trouble looking in the mirror what I saw wasn't what I wanted to see

20:00so I avoided the image altogether when my parents they sensed that something was wrong and so they actually wrote a letter to my adoption agency thinking that the problem stemmed from those first few years of my life those unknown years well my birth family actually wrote back and so at the dining room table my mom hands me this letter along with these pictures and I'm stunned but I take the letter and I take the pictures and I look at the pictures and I think these people look weird they don't look anything like me they can't possibly be related to me I read the letter and it says that I have I have three birth siblings two sisters and a brother it says that both of my birth parents are deceased but also says that I have a birth grandmother and this is the person who

21:05actually physically gave me away what had happened is that after my after my mother's death my grandmother had gotten custody of all four children and she just couldn't handle it and since I was the youngest I was the one who was given up well my mom leans into the table and she says isn't this amazing and I don't really know what to say I don't really respond because I feel like this is just another part of me that doesn't belong and besides you know all these these people come from a land full of Asians and I couldn't imagine anything worse but still I take the letter and I take the pictures and I stuff them in a drawer and I don't think about them for a while

22:06well I get older I go to college I have experiences that open myself up to my own race and so I become curious about my birth family I find the letter and I write one of my own and what transpires is this ongoing communication between myself and my my English speaking birth sister me Kyung and she is the closest to me in age what also happens as a result of this ongoing back and forth is that this new identity develops inside of me I am a Korean person I think Korean language Korean culture Korean food it's all embedded in my DNA and it just needs to be unlocked it's the American side of me that's a sham and if I go to Korea I know that I'll be welcome with open arms I'll finally find a place where I belong and so

23:10at age 31 I decide to take the plunge and move to Korea well the the flight is pretty grueling it's 14 hours so it's it's it's a delight to see me Kyung's face smiling at me at the airport we hug and it's like old friends meeting because we've been in communication for so long well I stay with her and after I get over my jet lag she says that she's invited the other siblings over and this makes me very nervous because I haven't had any direct communication with them well first to come is me he on and she's my elder elder sister and she's this very energetic very vivacious woman and she just comes barreling through and she takes one look at me and she just bursts into tears she says Jung Hyun Jung Hyun is my Korean name she says Jung Hyun we have the same

24:13face we have the same face she takes my hand and we go into the bathroom and we look in the mirror something that I hated doing as an adolescent but something that I now find emboldening and we compare our eyes and eyebrows and cheeks and cheekbones and they're a match it's remarkable a few minutes later my brother comes in Kyung Hyun and he doesn't look anything like me he's tall he's thin he has a really long face and as soon as he sees me his face cracks and he has to leave the apartment well when he comes back his eyes are all red and puffy and he opens his arms and I fall into his embrace and it's one of the safest places I've ever been well as his Korean custom my siblings give me a gift and this gift is a gray t-shirt with a whole bunch of nonsensical English phrases written all over it

25:19across the top are the word in big letters are the words premium stylish man clothing I don't like this shirt but they do so I put it on and that afternoon we talk and the conversation viewers towards grandmother and it's decided that I need to go see her I need to meet the person who actually gave me away so we all pile into my brother's car and we head to his apartment where grandmother lives and on the way there my heart is racing and my stomach is fluttering and I just don't know if I can do do this you know I don't know if I can actually go see the person who changed my life so dramatically when I get there I don't know if I can go through with it and I tell them

26:21but they gently urge me in and they I finally I finally walk in I walk down this long hall and to the left there's a small bedroom and on the floor of the bedroom is my grandmother my grandmother is just looking at the floor meek young comes up beside me and she says grandmother this is Jung Hyun grandmother looks up and at first she's very confused but then dawning crosses her face and as soon as it does she crawls across the floor because she can't walk and she when she's at my feet she just looks up at me opens her arms and lets out the most terrific scream well I kneel down into her embrace and she starts batting at my back and scratching at my shoulders and screaming I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry

27:22and I don't want to be there I feel frustrated I think of all the ways that she's upended my life but I also feel I also feel the the remorse in her shutters and so I end up holding her tight well despite all these dramatic episodes I do enjoy spending time with my birth family and I enjoy being in Korea I like the fact that I blend in I like the fact that in Asia there's no such thing as Asian and I like the fact that you know my birth family just wants to be a part of my life and so I think maybe I can make this a home but then the food the food which I love but that's covered in red pepper and this doesn't number on my Midwestern stomach

28:30and I developed the beginnings of an ulcer also Korean dramas and K-pop while entertaining just don't do it for me and I seek out more Western entertainment but most importantly every time I open my mouth and speak my remedial Korean the person on the other end shuts down they either say nothing or switch to English or just walk away and this happens over and over and over and so my days become this series of rejections both on my part and on theirs and this is very difficult for me because here I was two years in and I hadn't really made any progress in becoming a Korean person but still I wanted to try so on Chuseok Chuseok is a holiday

29:31that a lot of expats compared to Thanksgiving where all at my brother's apartment my siblings my siblings kids and my grandmother and we have this delicious meal and after the meal my brother's son comes up to me he's 10 years old and he starts speaking English and I find this very endearing because he hasn't really spoken to me this whole time he's been too shy well he goes and plays with his cousin and I lean into me king and I say listen he's doing a really good job if you want me to help tutor him I would be more than happy to and I get stopped mid-sentence because from the corner of the room my grandmother is falling into hysterics she's pounding the floor and she's saying you are a Korean person speak Korean you are a Korean person speak Korean the room falls silent

30:37and I feel as well of anger in my chest and I have to leave the apartment and I know then that I'm not Korean enough for Korea and I might not be Korean enough for this family that that starts the beginning of the end of my time in Korea and I leave just a couple months after that when I get back everything is much easier daily interactions don't take on any significance because everything is familiar and relationships are just much easier to forge but the moment I get back I once again feel conspicuous and I realize that in America I will always be a hyphenated individual not simply an American but always an Asian American my grandmother died in 2013

31:37and I had some time to distance myself from it so I wasn't angry anymore I knew that what she'd said had come from a place of immense guilt but I did grieve I grieved not just for her but for myself for what could have been and for perhaps what should have been today I don't consider myself fully Korean but I don't consider myself fully American really either I see myself as a complicated combination of the two that combination used to repulse me and I'll be honest sometimes those feelings do come creeping back but I'm doing much better now I am still in contact with my birth family although over the years those relationships have cooled what matters to me now is that I'm living a current life that I've confronted my past and that I've accepted it with all of its ambiguities and because I've done this when I look in the mirror now I don't see something to be

32:42mocked or ridiculed I see this interesting bundle of complexity and because the world is this infinitely complex place my face fits right in thank you that was James Han Mattson he's the author of two novels the Lost Prayers of Ricky Graves and Reprieve which is named the best book of 2021 by Harper's Bazaar, Esquire and Moore and it was featured on the Today Show keep an eye out for his upcoming novel The Grand Impostors from William Merrill Harper College. Aliza this week I met with James to talk about his story and asked him about the experience he had in college that as he said opened him up to his own race. College was very eye-opening for me in the sense that it was the first time where I had a group of Asian friends and I didn't really think that was going to happen ever but then in college I ended up meeting one

33:47of my best friends who was Malaysian and he was an international student and he introduced me to other international students because I was surrounded by so much asianness it just became very normal for me and this is what opened myself up to my own race and realizing you know that I am I am an asian person and this is how I'm going to be viewed in the world and this is how you know these are the lenses for which I will see the world. To see photos of James and his birth family visit themawth.org. In a moment the road to the Miss America pageant when the Moth Radio Hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic public media and Woods Hole Massachusetts. Today's episode is brought to you by Alma. Therapy has been valuable for me but getting started

34:48isn't exactly easy. The hardest part wasn't deciding to go it was figuring out where to even begin. I remember scrolling endlessly not knowing who took my insurance wondering if I'd connect with the person on the other side it just felt like a lot. That's why Alma really stands out to me. They make it simple to find a therapist who actually fits your needs. Their directory includes over 26,000 therapists nationwide and you can filter by things like insurance identity and therapeutic approach. And 98% of their therapists accept insurance which makes a big difference. Clients with insurance pay $20 on average though it depends on your plan and you can even use their free cost estimator to know what you'll pay up front. Most people find their match on the first try and 95% connect with a therapist within a week. It just removes so much of that initial friction. Get started now at helloalma.com slash moth. That's helloalma.com slash m o t h. Did you know that the moth offers free storytelling workshops? Hi my name is Chaz Giovanni and I'm a long time storytelling instructor with the moth.

35:50My job is to help people find, shape and tell true personal stories. For students we do this through free workshop programs throughout the year. Our workshops bring students together to brainstorm stories and then give them the tools and guidance they need to tell them. Workshops are offered in person in New York City and virtually for students around the country. Workshops are available year round. To learn more and apply visit the moth.org slash edu. You're listening to the moth radio hour. I'm Franz O'Lecayo and I'm Aliza Cosby. We've arrived at our last story in this hour about not quite belonging. On our podcast grown we explore the in between space between being a teenager and adult. But the truth is this is something people encounter in all phases of their lives. Yeah absolutely and the older I get the more I realize that we're all just trying to find our place in the world or being told by the world who we should be which was the case for our next

36:51storyteller. Nicole Kelly told this story at a moth main stage in Iowa City where we were presented by Iowa Public Radio from the Engler Theatre. Here's Nicole. Right out of college I decided to enter the Miss Iowa competition. I had never done a pageant in my entire life but I had remembered watching those glamorous girls on TV growing up and I decided to prove that I could be just like them. So I had three months to prepare before I would go up against 30 other girls from all over the state of Iowa. And if I won I would win my ticket to compete at the coveted Miss America pageant in Atlantic City. But I had no idea where to start. I needed to find myself an expert in pageantry. And I found that expert in a sassy woman from the Jersey Shore. She was intensely direct and she had a reputation for training fierce strong pageant competitors. She honestly was like

37:54my Michael Cain from Miss Congeniality. So we got to work. We booked open conference room spaces and in these quiet moments under fluorescent lights she would teach me the very important things like the right amount of hips sway to use when walking in a swimsuit on stage. Which by the way is enough to be confident and sassy but not enough to be overly sexy. We studied together. We had makeup contouring lessons together. She taught me to say yes instead of yeah and taught me the latest sparkly styles that were currently in on the pageant scene. When the week long Miss Iowa competition began I started the competition in a private interview with the judges. Where I think I perfectly executed saying yes instead of yeah. Up next on stage where the preliminary was the preliminary competition. And this was a roller coaster of emotions. But after

38:57the first night they called my name as the winner of the swimsuit preliminary award winner. The judges had picked me for walking sassy but not too sexy and my five-inch heels and bikini. The next night was the talent portion of competition and my stomach was churning with feel fear for this part. You see I had chosen to sing my favorite song defying gravity from my favorite musical wicked but that is a freaking hard song to sing. You see the Broadway musical wicked came out when I was in middle school and I was obsessed. My poor parents would drive me hours to see which ever touring production of the show was closest to my middle of nowhere hometown. My pageant dress was perfectly beaded with all green beads. A nod to my favorite character the wicked which of the West. As they called my name I walked out into the shining spotlight, took center stage and looked

40:01out into the dark audience. The track began and the song came out of me with ease. I felt like my heart was flying with every note. Before I knew it we had made it to the end of the competition. And all 30 girls came out on stage for the final crowning of Miss Iowa. I had made the top five cut and surrounded by a sea of nervous girls in hairspray. I took a silent breath to hold. As the competition host began to announce the final ballot. Fourth runner up. He didn't say my name. Third runner up also not me. Second runner up. He didn't say my name. Suddenly it was just me and one other girl standing holding each other shaking waiting to see who would be awarded the title of Miss Iowa. The audience was silent. You could have heard a pin drop and I could feel my heart beating all the way up to my ears. And then he said my name. I won. Yeah I won.

41:11But let me tell you I was in complete shock. I was barely able to laugh or cry or even talk. And before I knew it they were putting a crown on top of my head giving me a sparkly sash, handing me a bouquet of flowers, handing me keys to a car I would get to drive for a year for free. And then suddenly a person honestly brought out a fur coat and put that on me too. It was a whirlwind of emotion. There were hugs and photo flashes and confetti for hours. I was truly on cloud nine. I had done it. The next morning with only about three hours of sleep under my belt due to all of that excitement. I arrived at a local hotel conference room to get into hair and makeup for my official Miss Iowa headshot. I was busy smiling for a flashing camera while a person stood beside and held a fan so my hair would blow just right in the picture.

42:16When a smiling TV news reporter and cameraman arrived for my first interview as Miss Iowa. The interview went great. I told them how excited I was to have won the title and how un believable it felt to be going to Miss America in just three short months. Later that night my parents and I gathered around the hotel TV to watch the interview I had given earlier in the day. The Anchorman entering the piece smiled and said, last night a woman with a disability won the crown of Miss Iowa and is headed to Miss America. My heart sank. As I watched the package begin I watched them cut away from my face focusing in on my torso, zooming in closer and closer and closer until the entire end of my missing arm filled the whole hotel room screen. You see I was born with my full right arm but only half of my left arm. Nothing else was different or wrong I just came out without my left hand and so my parents had

43:21always raised me to follow the lead of my older brother and sister and I participated in everything. I was a lifeguard at the local YMCA. I'd played trombone in band and I even threw a perfect inning as a pitcher in junior league softball. Yeah. But I was always aware of my difference. When going off to summer camps I knew that I always had to come up with funny jokes about having one hand in order to make my other cabin mates comfortable. Strangers would always point and whisper in amazement if I ever had to stop to tie my shoes in public. As I watched that camera zoom in closer and closer the larger the image got the smaller I felt. It was like I was a prop in my own story. It was as if the reporter was saying isn't this sweet kind girl lucky? It made me feel utterly stripped and violated. Don't get me wrong. I expected to

44:28speak publicly about having one hand if I had won the title of Miss Iowa but that is not what we had talked about in the interview. That was their voice, their packaging, turning my story into pure inspiration. I had won the title expecting it to prove how very like the other girls I was and yet here was this first story only focused on my difference. In shock I turned my head to my parents. I opened my mouth to try to speak but nothing came out. My parents quickly jumped in to try to console me. This was just one bad news reporter and just one bad news station. To my complete horror hours later every news outlet around the world had picked up on my story. My inspiring story had spread like wildfire and everybody wanted to talk to this the disabled girl going to Miss America. I got requests to be a guest on the view. The

45:29today show asked me to interview with them and Jay Leno even used me as a setup to one of his jokes in his opening monologue. The entire world was telling me that they were both shocked and inspired that someone like me could win a ticket to compete at Miss America. It didn't matter if I had interviewed best saying well or worked really hard to have rock hard abs in my swimsuit. It was clear that I had not won the title of Miss America, Miss Iowa but my disability had. I continued to receive a multitude of interview requests and out of complete anger I said no to them all. Three months later I arrived in Atlantic City for Miss America feeling utterly defeated. I continued to receive a magnitude of attention and I hated being used as a marketing tool for the impending live telecast because I was always the prop and it was always stories of pure inspiration.

46:34I still wanted to be crowned Miss America. I still wanted to prove that I could do it. I still wanted to make my entire extended family and the three busloads of people who would come all the way from my tiny hometown to watch me compete proud. I still saw this as a chance to prove that I was no different. I saw this as another chance to set the record straight. I didn't win the title of Miss America and I returned to Iowa ready to crawl into my shell. I wanted to be left alone. I wanted to stew in my anxiety and my depression. Everything about that experience had felt so out of my control. A couple of weeks later, while I was still very much in hiding, an email hit my inbox from a woman in Long Island. It read,

47:36seeing you on the Miss America pageant, my husband and I started crying. We held each other as we watched this beautiful, confident, sweet girl strutting her stuff up on this stage. This was the sign that got us through the initial shock of learning that our unborn baby girl was going to be born with one hand. Now we can't wait to welcome her and hug her and show her that she too can do anything. I was so focused on the validation of my able-bodied friends that I completely denied the opportunity to proudly step up and represent others like me. I was so afraid of my armed determining how other people saw me that I let my rejection of it do the same. And this was just one of hundreds of emails that flooded my inbox from families across the country all living with children with one hand.

48:40You know, in my favorite musical, Wicked, at the end of the first act, the Wicked Witch of the West actually meets Elizabeth Oz. When she meets him, she finds that he cannot magically fix the problem that she has of the way that the world perceives her green skin. With this realization, she probably steps into her true self and fully embraces the way that the world perceives her. I realized for the first time that I had gone into this competition all wrong. Instead of my messaging being trying to be how very like everyone I really was, I should have been proudly embracing the reality of my difference. So instead of becoming Miss America, I became queen to an entire group of parents and kids desperately looking to change the perception around disability. To change the negativity I myself had fallen victim to. I think my favorite character from Wicked says it best.

49:44I'm through accepting limits because someone says they're so. Some things I cannot change, but till I try, I'll never know. Thank you. That was Nicole Kelly. Nicole spends much of her time in advocacy work. She's the co-creator and co-host of the podcast Disarming Disability, which aims to break down the stigma surrounding disability. Nicole has spoken at schools, universities, and corporations across the country about disability equity and inclusion. That was our final story for this hour. But before we go, Aliza, what's the time you felt caught between worlds? I guess the real question is, one's a time I don't feel caught between worlds. I've really come to realize that I'm not willing to squeeze myself into boxes anymore. We don't have to fit into a box that the world tells us we need to.

50:47We can be many different things at once and we can give our self permission to change and grow. And I'm really excited to explore this topic even more with you on our new podcast from the Moth, grown. We hope you'll listen along. Yeah, we really do. Check it out. Check out the podcast. And that's it for this episode of the Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll tune in next week. And that's the story from the Moth. Your host this hour were Aliza Cosmi and Fanzo Lecayo, the host of the Moth's podcast called the Moth Radio Hour. This episode of the Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, and Catherine Burns along with Aliza and Fanzo and Emily Couch. Co-producer is Vicki Merrick. The stories were directed by Meg Bulls, Jody Powell and Chloe Salmon. The rest of the Moths'

51:48leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin, Janess, Jennifer Hickson, Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham, Marina Cluche, Leanne Gully, Suzanne Rust, Brandon Grant, Inga Gliddowsky, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Aldi Kaza. Special thanks to Melissa Brown, Mark Solinger, Anna Stern, and Devon Wilson. Most stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the story tellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound and Blu-Dot Sessions. Podcast Music, production support from Davey Sumner. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including Executive Producer Leah Reese Dennis. For more about our podcast for information on pitching us your own story and everything else could or our website, TheMoth.org.