FEELING THINGS - How to Get People to Like You More + Why Glen Powell Couldn't Eat Ketchup for Years

0:00This is an I-Hike podcast. Guaranteed Human It's the US Open, which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind and I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down. The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugarcoding, just host analysts, from someone who's actually been there. Coco, looking real good, her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see Yiga back to what she looked like a couple years ago and she was winning dominantly. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there everybody, Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. A lot of times, the story of the day is what we're all talking about and buzzing about. And yes, sometimes it's love island and sometimes it's Serena ropes. Coming back to the US Open, sometimes it's obsession and Spider-Man making box office history.

1:02Hopefully Rose, people get our point. Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome aboard season six of the Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. A beautiful woman smiles and hands you a scotch. But you have no idea just how messed up her job actually is. It was the most sexist job I think you could have. Until one day, a group of stewardesses spark a revolution that reshapes America. Listen to the Girlfriends, Flight or Fight on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image, discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture.

2:05We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Tuesday. Welcome to Feeling Things. I'm Amy. And I'm Kat. And my feeling of the day is... I don't know why Naughty keeps coming to mind. Because it's not. It...it feels naughty.

3:05I am a Heinz, Catch-Up Girl, through and through. Like, I love me some Heinz. Oh, gee. Even the organic one throws me off a little bit, but I'll still be able to identify it. I mean, I've done a full blown taste test and I can always pick out my Heinz. I bought a different kind of catch-up. So I've cheated on Heinz and I bought this stuff that I guess Glen Powell is a part of. You know, he has seasoned actor. He has a top gun. Never seen it. The second one. That Netflix movie with Sydney Swini. He's a cutie. Yeah. Yes. And he was on the marketing for this catch-up as either one of the investors or he's a creator. I don't know his role. It really doesn't matter. He was just on the little...what's that called? Where there's like campaign. Yeah, but at the end of an aisle where they have the bump out and they've got all this stuff, it's called something specific. A sign? Yeah. It's like a sign, not like a marquee, but we're going to get there.

4:08Let's figure this out together. The special product at the end of an aisle, no. It's a setup. It's like you want... Display. That's it. They were getting closer. But there's a specific word for it. People that work in shelving and distribution probably know exactly what we're talking about. And it's not display? It's not display. It would be like the special promo. Yes. It is. It is. That is the definition of the word I'm trying to think of. It's a special promotional display called something that's on an aisle at the grocery store. Either way, they had this special thing that we can't think of. Was it him like a cutout of him? He's part of the whole thing. And then there's all these ketchups. And it says smash kitchen. I think is the name of it. And I thought, I'm going to buy one. Which felt a little naughty because I'm buying it because of some hot guy. Yeah.

5:08And I'm cheating on the restaurant on Hines. And I got to say it's good. As good? I am not like disgusted by it. Would you buy it again though? I might. Overhide. It depends if I'm walking by and they have it on the aisle and the little promotional bump out display thingy. Well, look at that has worked like using like a, I mean, dough. We know this, but using an attractive male figure to sell things works. And the fact that he made it in his kitchen. No, I'm kidding. No, I'm kidding. Okay, I was like, why? Yeah. Okay, so you're feeling naughty. Is that the word? What's the word? I'm feeling risky. I took a risk. Are you feeling naughty because like it's bad? I did a bad thing because Hines is going to find out or naughty because I'm eating Glenn Powell's ketchup. I think it's that I bought a ketchup because a good looking guy was on the, yeah. Well, you sure you're feeling like a bad girl. I feel like a bad girl.

6:09So it feels, yeah, and it would have been a waste of, I don't know how much this ketchup was, is it four bucks? Okay. Yeah. I'm so particular about ketchup that the likelihood of me enjoying this ketchup was low. How about you're feeling risky? Like you're feeling a little risky and then also you're like, ooh, there you go. I bought this hot guy's ketchup. Yeah, so I'm just letting you know if you see the display. It's, I mean, if you know what the word that we're talking about, please let us know. Well, while you're sharing your feeling of the day, I am looking up what the word is. Well, you're going to like my feeling. If you're feeling naughty, you're going to like my feeling. What is it? It's an alliteration. I'm feeling nostalgic. Ooh, okay. Okay, but I don't know if I actually don't know if that fits either. I might, I don't know if it's nostalgic or like a little sad. This is my last week ever, ever in my current office. But I've been at since the beginning of 2020. So I think that's over six years.

7:11And that's a big thing. Yeah. Yeah, moving out. And I don't know where I'll be when I come back from maternity leave, which I'm not even going on maternity leave yet, but I am stopping in person right now. And you are getting there just some behind the scenes. You're laboring as a breeze. Kat can barely breathe. And every time she sits down, she's like, I am so uncomfortable. These chairs are not meant for pregnant me. And we try to put together lengthy episodes, but I feel like leading up to your pregnancy, the episodes might get a little shorter and shorter because Kat's like, I can't sit here for much longer. And I get hot. Like I'm just hotter. I know I think I'm going to have to go turn the air down. Yeah. Because and I'm having sympathy. So you're gains because I'm suddenly uncomfortable in the chair. And like now I'm hot. And I want to put my hand on my belly.

8:11It's like we're synced up. I have the name. Okay. I have the name. And it's called an end cap. I would have never gotten there. Oh, I have. I have. And I'm mad at myself because I know this word. I don't know if I took this in marketing 101 back in college, but a in retail marketing and end cap is a free standing display unit or to or Jen and Jen and I can have spoke with the words guys. G in dash eat in deep. Jen and Jen is a display for a product place at the end of an aisle. I guess some people call it in cap and some people call it Jen and. But I don't like Jen and where. Yeah. I never would have we would have still been talking about this if you were waiting for me to guess that. I think eventually it would have come to me because that is the exact word I was looking for. Very well now we know. Here's an in Wikipedia.

9:11This is the in caps at a Walmart store in retail marketing or any other store is a free standing display unit or Jen and now I know what Jen and stands for general and shelving is a display for a product place at the end of an aisle. And that's what this was. Glenn Powell was at the end of the aisle in a display with his ketchup. I bought it. It worked. Was I am sale. No, no, no. Just they were it got. It got the gen end for that week or. Because you know how like celebrities like, you know, they always go into another business venture. So a lot of people make. You sell a lot of people doing skincare or drinks like alcohols or whatever. What makes you think I'm going to get into ketchup? Oh, I think he likes ketchup. I think I want to get into ketchup. Well, to me, I think maybe he was passionate about making maybe they make mustard too. I don't know.

10:14But maybe he loves condiments. Maybe he wanted to make it health. I have no idea what the ingredients are. I don't know. You have nothing about this. He seems like a very fit health conscious person. So maybe he wanted to make his. Is this the organic ketchup? I have no idea. Listen. I saw. I grabbed. I bought. I tried. And it was good. So if you were going to be a celebrity brand guy, woman. What do you think you what product line would you go into? I could make ketchup. I could make ketchup. I would maybe want to do a skincare or some sort of protein. Oh, yeah. I would do a protein bar because let me tell you. Another feeling of the day is disappointed. And you know this because I was driving home from the studio and we were on our way to meet at my house to do this. And I was starving and all I had in my bag was this protein bar that I bought randomly. And I'm not going to throw any names under the bus. But it was so disappointing. I was like, I told you.

11:15I was like, this protein bar is horrible. But I'm going to eat it because I'm so hungry. So that's what you would do. I don't know any celebrity facing protein bars. Do you? Or I'm just not thinking. No. Because you can't. This is my thought. You can't do skincare. Everybody has skincare. Yeah, but they make a lot of money on that. Yeah, but think about how much competition you have. I don't know. I can't think of one famous person's protein bar. But I can think of a lot of famous people's skincare or makeup lines. Well, back up. I'm not like a famous. I just you are. If you worry. Yeah. So yeah. What protein bar I feel like it's safer. Okay. I have Glenn Powell's journey with ketchup. I googled it. He is now making ketchup as part of his new condiment line, smash kitchen, which he co-founded after a childhood experience left him traumatized by ketchup. Who knew this is going to lead to like actual mental health. Minded or related content.

12:17He has since rediscovered his love for the condiment and aims to offer organic options for consumers. So I guess it's organic. I want to know is I'm getting there. Glenn Powell's relationship with ketchup changed dramatically due to a childhood prank. As a kid, he loved ketchup and used it on everything. So did I. What was everything? Everything. Macaroni cheese eggs. My dad used to tell me food was just a carrier for ketchup. Like I wanted to eat ketchup and I had to use food to get it done. Like that's how much I loved ketchup. Okay. However, during a sleepover, his friend sister poured ketchup on him while he was sleeping. The Texas son baked the ketchup, creating a terrible smell that traumatized him and made him unable to eat ketchup. For years. After years of avoiding ketchup, Glenn has rediscovered his love for the condiment through his new venture smash kitchen. He co-founded this organic condiment line to offer healthier options to consumers.

13:21The brain includes various flavors such as ketchup. They have classic or hot honey ketchup. Oh, that I want to try that. I'm intrigued. Classic mustard. Two mayonnaise options. Classic spicy mayo. And then barbecue. They have classic or honey barbecue. His mission is to transform the condiment market by providing organic options that are free from artificial additives. His goal is to make delicious, healthy condiments accessible to families, making a full circle moment from his childhood experience to now creating his own ketchup. Okay. So was he sleeping outside at the sleepover? It sounds like. I guess. Also, that's a crazy prank. I mean, I've frozen my friends underwear at like a sleepover. Or you know the trick where you put their hand in the water while they're sleeping. But I've never thought to pour ketchup on somebody. That's mean. Do you think as a co-founder, he's like, hey, I think put me on the end cap and we'll sell some ketchup.

14:23Yeah. Or the marketing team is like, Glenn, we really need to put you. I mean, because they didn't put him on the bottle, but I'm. I definitely think everybody in the room is probably like, yes, we need you. You would never have bought that if it was you know, I mean, the packaging is cute. But for me to step out on Hines. I do. It's got to be something which all the things were right that day to where I bought it. And it was good. And now we know. Now we know. A childhood childhood. So the weirdest thing you put ketchup on is a kid is macaroni and cheese. I don't know if that's the way I put it on most everything or dip sandwiches in it. I would eat it with steak, which some people would be more afraid of. I think it's a thing a lot of kids do kids, but I'll do that as an adult. Like if I were to go to a steakhouse and you want me to eat steak, I would like some ketchup, please. And that is. Not compliments to the chef, right? And I'd be like, it's not you. It's me. People are so like, hoity-toity about their steak, though.

15:24My mom used to make me. Bologna ketchup sandwiches. Impact them in my lunch. As a kid. Did you like them? I have a kid. Yes, but now I, okay, I have to admit something. That call was really pivotal for me. Hey, it's Emily Tish Sussman. And this season on She Pivots, the podcast where women share bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything. I sit down with culture shifting women who share their pivots like Para Olympian Alley Truett. I was like, I'm a month out from a shark attack. There's no way in 11 months I'm making the very long text. Advocate Elizabeth Smart. I still feel that drive that I can still make a difference, so I'm going to keep going. Celebrity chef Carla Hall was that scary to walk away from such a stable career after just two years? No. I was more afraid of being unhappy than I was broke and in a dead and job that I didn't enjoy.

16:24And feminist legend, Gloria Steinem. All of us were trying to express women's real lives. We need a meeting place of our own. And if I can contribute to that, I'd like to maintain that and leave this house for that purpose. Listen to She Pivots on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I have to admit something. I would never choose to eat that now, baloney kind of like, freaks me out, even though I'll eat a hot dog. Sometimes, baloney feels different to me. To me, I think if I took a bite of a baloney and catch up sandwich, I would like it. It'd be nostalgic. Yes, sort of like your offense. But I'm not ever wanting that. You know what, slath is a child when it comes to its game to sandwiches and I don't make it now, but I made it all the time. And you're going to hate it because it involves mayonnaise. But it's white bread, mayonnaise, sour cream and onion chips. And that's it. It's a potato chip sandwich. So good.

17:24That's basically a mayonnaise sandwich. You can use your special mayonnaise. Maybe he'll send you a special package for cheating on hides. I don't think this is ever going to get back to him. I know. Yeah, I doubt that. But I will say they're on to something. Yeah. And I am intrigued by these other flavors, so I will check them out. And that is our catch up moment of the day. Speaking of moments, we do have another Hasbro moment coming up in the show where we'll be reading an email that we got and be doing a giveaway. Thanks to Hasbro and Walmart. We've got our games here with us today. This week it's Guess Who clue and monopoly. When I had the Walmart delivery sent to my house, I had it dropped off and my dog immediately started eating the Walmart box. So she didn't get anything inside the game. So it's still playable, but inside the box. I do have a question that doesn't come up when it comes to games, though.

18:25Okay. So this is something because you're a big game person. And I saw this online and I thought it was genius. If I said to you, cat, you can still be a part of game night till the end of time, even after you die. Would you want to be just like a hologram thing? Just asking, would you want to be a part of it? I mean, it's game night. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes. So here's what we can do. We can put it cremated after you die. We can put part of your ashes into an hourglass and you still get to participate in game night because you would be the timer. That's honestly not a bad idea. I don't think so either. But I've never seen cream. I mean, it ashes. Is it like ash or like sand? Because is it going to work out? Or is it not like sand? Because I know. Is sand. I mean, maybe they could mix it with sand.

19:25Because you're right. It would have to pour the right amount of, if it was a 60 second timer. Yeah. It would need to. I don't think I would hate that. I don't think I'd need it there. Like honestly, should we look into this? Like creating a multiple. And then after you die, you have them distributed to all your friends. Like, hey, I'm now a part of game night with you every night. Because there's plenty of ashes to go around, especially for mixing with sand. You could make multiple timers and have them delivered to people after you die. This is a great business idea. If people are making jewelry out of, you know what? Then we could make. What do they call it? Hourglass. This is a great. If somebody dies, it can be like a family package. Like we can make one for every family member. You can buy an ad on it. Yeah, people could do custom. Yeah. I bought today. I bought a new phone case and I got to the checkout and it was like, do you want to buy a screen protector for $15?

20:26Do you want to buy a key ring for $20? Do you want to buy? Initials engraved. Yes. And I said no, no, no, no, no. But if it said, do you want a cremated hourglass for your game? I would say yes. Yeah. Sign me up. The problem is we can have time and die. Yeah. Like, I don't have my dad's ashes anymore, but that would have been cool to take his. And then. I would say, what a cool gift. If. If what. Okay, we know we all know we're going to die at some point. So if I, you know, some people will plan their funerals before they die, especially if they know it's coming. That's something that you can plan. Like it can be part of. We probably need to partner with a funeral home. It can be a part of the package. Would you like to make keepsakes for all of your. Yeah. That'd be cool. And then like, especially if somebody knows that like you love games or something or whatever. And then it's my funeral on the funeral director is like, hey, by the way, Catherine made you guys awfully. Yeah. They do upsell you there. I had to do this for both of my parents.

21:26And there's always options of do you want their fingerprint put on a necklace? Oh, so this is already kind of like a. Do you. You know, do you want their tooth as an area like you they can really stop it. No, they don't want their teeth. But they can make things out of before like if they are going to be cremated, they make sure to get their thumbprint or their fingerprint before they burn them. There's. I've told you this, I think that my friends, ex-science teacher in high school, he is going to be turned into a diamond. Yes, that's an option. They can make you into jewelry. So that's kind of, I mean. Kind of cool. Yeah. Who's he giving the diamond to? I think he was, he said him. This was so long ago, but I'm pretty sure he said him and his wife planned to be turned into diamonds. So I guess whoever dies first, the other spouse will get the diamond and then a little pass it down. But like, think about this in like 200 years, there's this like diamond that was your great, great grandfather. It's kind of cool.

22:27If we're even around, is that actually a diamond 200 years? Don't blame me by that. Hey, I. It's taking over in 200. Okay, well that makes me. It cast gonna cry. Cast gonna cry. So, but guess what? Your baby will have lived a life because 200 years, your baby's not living that long either. Well, that makes me think like you're not going to cry. Zoe's children. Yes. Like when do we stop? You're not going to cry. You're already crying. Your aren't just like when do we stop having kids? If you like if that because I did see something recently and I try not to look too much into it because there's not a lot individually I can do. To stop what is going to happen to the world. There are things I can do. I can recycle it, you know, not use chat GBT for everything and all that, but I did see something that somebody was saying like I didn't listen to the whole thing. So I don't have a lot to report on it, but we're going down a dark path and like they're going to take over.

23:30Okay, that's if you choose to go down the dark path though. There are opstem optimists in that which at your baby shower. What you just said, we're only gonna be around for 200 more months. I felt like that was like a comment you just say in passing. I thought we even moved right past it and then your eyes started watering and then you're like, oh no. Because I did just watch this AI documentary a couple of weeks ago. Actually, it was at your baby shower. Taylor told me to watch it. Oh gosh. And it was very helpful though. And the guy that created it decided to do the documentary because him and his wife were having a baby. And he started to get scared of like, should we be bringing a child into this? And the first part of the documentary, there's a lot of fear around it. He interviews everybody from both ends. And then the pendulum swings to where he's like, oh wait, there are actually people that are really dialed into this. This actually isn't the end and there's a way we can co-exist and survive this. And it's actually gonna be pretty cool like what a time to be alive. Well maybe I need to watch that then. Because that's okay.

24:30You do. Because you will, you will emerge. He's the creator of that. He chose to still have a kid. Yes, because that was already happening. Because I'm gonna like get rid of the kid. But he is choosing to be an optimist about it because living in fear is like that is no way to live. Well, and I also do think this because I'm listening to a book about is actually I can't figure out if it's more about War War 2 or more about War War 1 because it goes back and forth in time. The Alice Network, I think I told you about it. And I was thinking about there's there's pregnancy involved in it. So I was just thinking like what is it like in a time like that like World War to think about having a kid like there's always gonna be something that's gonna say like this is not the best time. There's something that's gonna scare you. So right now, I mean we have wars too, but right now it's like AI is freaking out, but like I can't just yeah, I have to choose to have.

25:33Optimism, because she's coming. She's coming. I don't know if you can hear it in cat's breath. She is coming. Okay, speaking of babies and families, is that where you were gonna go? Yeah, okay. I was gonna say I've been thinking about because now I just got. I just got some more pictures of her and. I'm just wondering if you can get now at your ultrasounds are insane like you really can like see what they look like. However her face is smushed up against my placenta so I can only see half her face. However, I was thinking about after that, like she's a real, she's baby, like she could come out now. She's a full grown baby not totally grown, but you know what I mean? So I like I wonder what kind of baby she's going to be like and like what kind of kid she's going to like in what kind of personality she's going to have and like what kind of like friends is she can have a middle school. And what sports is she going to like so I just have been thinking about what kind of kid she's going to be now that it feels very real.

26:35And I don't think we've talked about the family roles. Yeah on here. I mean it doesn't sound familiar to me. So also thinking about because there's these family roles that every dysfunctional family has. And every family has some kind of dysfunction so you can find these roles in every family. And I learned about them in college and used them in my work all the time. And I know what role I played in my siblings and all that and I'm like I wonder what family role she's going to be. So I want to go through them. We're not going to protect that but we can talk about what we relate to and how it showed up in our families. And why is it helpful to know these family roles? I think it's well we'll get the last one I'll save it for the end scapegoat. That one is actually really interesting to talk about because a lot of times a scapegoat is somebody that has seen as like a bad kid or an outsider. But they're actually a lot of times very healthy.

27:35It can be like a clue for the family to help the family find help and regulate. But it's also helpful to know these roles so you won you can feel seen in some of this stuff. But also if I know what role I'm playing then I know what role I can stop playing so I can actually get my needs met and the family can find help. Because what these roles do is they keep the family in what we call homeostasis which in dysfunction that would be staying in dysfunction. When we have dysfunction in a family it feels like balanced. I mean I felt that in relationships even that I know this relationship is unhealthy but that's what feels normal to me. Yeah. And so these roles help keep that together. And so when somebody is like, oh I'm not going to play my role anymore then the family gets all wobbly. And then people are like, oh no we have to get this back in order but really we need to feel a little wobbly so we can find some help. We do that in all.

28:35We're talking about family dynamic with kids but that could be in a friendship and a romantic relationship, a working relationship. Because it's reminding me of a saying the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Do you want to stay sometimes you want to stay in that because you know how to navigate it even though it can be really unhealthy. It's like well yeah I could maybe go out and find something better or healthier but it's like what would happen if I did. Yeah I know this I know this chaos but I don't know what's out there so I'd rather stay here because that feels safer even though out there could be so much better for you. So I'm going to go through the different roles. Now not every family or system is going to have every single role and also something to think about is you can play more than one. I relate to more than one of these in different areas in my life in different times in my life.

29:37So I want you to think about like what you were and also think maybe I won't tell you you can tell me what you think I was. Okay so the first one is family hero which is kind of self explain it's like the perfect child the child that everybody can count on the child that you know is getting straight A's or the child that's the star athlete or the one that every parent wants to brag about. And they kind of give like a shining star for the family they like give a if there is dysfunction in the family they can help like hide it because they have this. So is that you? Like I feel like you're so sweet that you think it is. I feel like you were a higher cheever and like the golden child but I mean in the classroom I don't know what you were like at home but. I was not the golden child in that home. Growing up I was not that's also interesting I'm glad you actually said that because you know me as an adult but you don't didn't know me as growing up growing up I.

30:42I had a lot of how do we say this. I don't think I my parents would ever say I'm a problem child but there was a lot of. Defiance at times but more so like I needed more I needed more. I was not I was needy ish I hate even saying that I just wasn't. Go with the flow the hero is going to be you go with the flow now. You don't think so. The hero is the golden child and I was not like I was never the best at anything. Whether that was in my family or out and I didn't yeah I was smart but I didn't like excel or. Okay. Well I definitely was not that I was not what's your sister that or do you think that we should fall in more so into that category. About me. Well in the golden the golden child but the hero a lot of times from if you're in the family you're looking at the hero being like it must be nice to be you.

31:50You have all the attention you get all the accolades everybody thinks you're so great must be nice to be you but also it's a lot of pressure. So I think when you are the golden child there's a lot of anxiety that comes with that and maybe even anger too of like having to keep that up or because of that pressure so I have a lot of compassion for the hero. So even though growing up I would have looked at the hero and my family I've been like lucky must be nice. Yes I would have said that. Okay so the next one is the mascot which also is kind of self explanatory and it's named to it's like the class clown of the family. So this is the kid that if there's a fight at the dinner table there's some something going on you're going to crack a joke to kind of ease the tension. You're the one that's trying to like break the ice or just even things out. You might even be like a class clown in your classroom that's something that you just take on use a lot of humor.

32:56Could this be you? I mean I think I wanted attention. I don't know that I was you know break break the tension. I wanted attention. Okay but were you were you like a goofy kid? Kind of. I mean there are parts of me that could be goofy and fun but I wasn't I don't know that I would put class clown I would put I could be disruptive. I was talking all the time. This person is going to use humor or anything like that to ease any kind of tension to soothe any kind of discomfort there they grow up a lot of times to be the kind of person who's in therapy who will say like you know I just got in the car accident. I was like I'm not going to hide in that crazy like they'll make a joke out of everything versus be versus sitting there being like I just wasn't a car wreck it was traumatic and I'm so scared straight face. Yeah I don't know yet if I let's go through all of them then you can say the next one is the lost child and this one will make me emotional.

34:07Because they're the kind they're the kid that just gets left behind and they're usually very well behaved kids they they look like everything's okay they kind of don't want to add any more anything to what's going on. Sometimes they notice that they're lost sometimes they don't but they just end up there just in the background and every in the reason I think that happens like oh. Did you watch that show Kate fear. That call was really pivotal for me. Hey it's Emily Tish Sussman and this season on She Pivots the podcast where women share bold career moves and personal personal turning points that changed everything I sit down with culture shifting women who share their pivots like Para Olympian Ali Truett. I was like I'm on out from a shark attack there's no way in 11 months I'm making the very long text advocate Elizabeth smart I still feel that drive that I can still make a difference so I'm going to keep going celebrity chef Carla Hall was that scary to walk away from such a stable career after just two years.

35:19No I was more afraid of being unhappy than I was broke and in a dead and job that I didn't enjoy and feminist legend glorious dynam. All of us were trying to express women's real lives we need a meeting place of our own and if I can contribute to that I'd like to maintain that and leave this house for that purpose. Listen to She Pivots on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey it's Bobby bones join me in former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday on our podcast lots to say with me Bobby bones and Matt Castle. We also bring in friends and mostly match friends who are current or former NFL players some of the biggest names and music and entertainment and then we have some really great conversations that can pretty much go anywhere. The great Taikman Jones after the game to hold national task force for police officers was at the stadium like hey buddy yeah you out of come on. And one of my favorite segments we do is called situational awareness where Bobby and I give each other real life situations and figure out what we'd actually do.

36:25You're in training camp and the rookie quarterback has one good throwing session in front of the media suddenly everybody online says he should start over you week one. How do you handle this? You just go back out to practice the next day and wait for him to mess up. Listen to lots to say with Bobby bones and Matt Castle on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 30 years ago an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust your friends and neighbors or you trust the people five miles overseas. This is a story about neighbors turning on each other and what happens when I've forgotten place decides it's had enough. We reached for a feeling that exists in this city but we're not stopping early. I'm Ben that of Half-Rate and for my new series on revisionist history I took a deep dive in the statin islands attempt to secede from New York City in the 1990s.

37:27And what it all has to do with the politics of resentment that dominate America today. Listen to revisionist history the statin island problem on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Jay Valentine. I've spent my career on the executive side of this industry, multi platinum songs, building artists and building business. And alongside my brother tank the superstar R&B singer, songwriter and producer we've created something special, the R&B money podcast. This is not just a podcast it's a safe space where artists, executives and fans of R&B music come to reminisce. Pull back the curtain and tell the stories that shaped this culture, the real history behind the hits. That was hood famous and then real love came out and it blew up. We lived in a project. And they were seeing all the success. They hear the music and we had nothing. We're covering the entire spectrum from Smokey Robinson, Alicia Keys, B2K, Mary J. Blige, Legends Current Stars and everyone who's contributed to the sound of R&B.

38:35You come out the gate with a hit. And then not Michael Jackson out of number one. Come on man. I was like hold on. I'm not gonna MJ out of the number one spot. If you're a super dedicated R&B fan who wants the real discovery, the real stories, this is your podcast. This is the R&B money podcast. Listen to R&B money from the Black Effect podcast network on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Did you watch? What's it called? That show Cape Fear. Oh, so show. Oh no, sorry. They just made it back in the day with Robert De Niro. Okay. They just made it into a show and we just watched it. And if anybody listening has seen that show, the daughter would be the lost child because the mom constantly she kind of oscillates between like the hero and the lost child. I think she feels like the lost child, but her brother probably thinks she's the hero because they never have to worry about her.

39:37Because she's just always okay. So she doesn't really get a lot of attention and she doesn't feel very seen. So that's what the lost child is and what can happen is they can be the lost child. I'm gonna be in the background. Whatever eventually that might show up. They might rebel against that like when they finally do realize what's going on. They might start to act out and then they can switch roles. But I have a special place in my heart for a lost child. The easy child is what a lot of people would think they are. That wasn't me. That wasn't me either. And then the play cater. So the play cater is like the fixer of the family. They're like the family therapist almost. They get triangulated and a lot of stuff. They are probably somebody. I mean later, not as a small kid, but later they might be the person that everybody calls to talk about whatever is going on in the family.

40:38But they ease everything not with humor like the mascot, but they will help like fix the problem. Do you think you're a play cater now? I think I've always been a play cater. Yeah, I think maybe not always. I probably was a play cater from like high school on. Yes. We have listeners. They didn't use the word play cater, but I'm thinking of emails that we've gotten during couch talks where people are they're exhausted because they're the one everybody comes to. They can end up being like the what we would call the surrogate spouse to a parent. So when there is a parent and a family that isn't emotionally available, they might be physically present. I mean, this can happen when there's a divorce and two and they're not physically present, but if they're even physically present, but they're not emotionally available or emotionally there, they can this play cater can come and play surrogate spouse with that other parent to help lead the family or give emotional support to that parent.

41:41So as kids, our parents are supposed to be the ones that are caring for us emotionally, but when this dynamic, dynamic happens, they're sharing that role, which can be really confusing for a kid, because that feels normal to them, because it's what they know. And then they get exhausted later in life, because that's the role that they always play. Play cater can also I'll say this from experience, it can feel really good. So to feel needed or to feel that they can make you feel wanted, it can make you feel important, it can make you feel smart or knowledgeable, special. So that's why a lot of times people don't rebel against those roles, because it feels really good to be the one that people go to until it doesn't. This is kind of reminding you I'm going to veer away from this, but I saw this life hack of if you want people to like you, ask for small favors.

42:43Like from them. So people like you better when you asked for small favors, not the other way around. It's called the Benjamin Franklin effect when somebody does something for you, their brains need to justify the effort, so they tell themselves, I must like this person. Otherwise, why would I do that? What does that do Benjamin Franklin? The question. I got sidetracked by the Benjamin Franklin part. I'll look that up while we continue talking about this, because that's just something I pulled and I stuck in there and I was like, wait, this is sort of like if you want people to like you. Because you're saying people like it when people come to them, but this is saying if you want people to like you, ask for small favors. In small is probably the key there. We don't feel overwhelming. So it's like, y'all do that. Yeah. I mean, think about if you've ever been asked to like help with something or do something or be there for somebody. It feels like almost like you're the chosen one. Like if my friend, let's maybe not if they get stuck on the side of the road, but like if my friend was, I don't know, needing to bake a birthday cake for something and was called me.

43:52Like, hey, I'm really nervous about making this cake because I have a lot of pressure. Like, would you come and do it with me? I'd be like, oh, you want me to come do it with you? Like, yeah, that's good. So it says here, the Benjamin Franklin effect is a psychological phenomenon where people tend to like someone more after doing them a favor, especially if the favor is small. This occurs because individuals often rationalize their helpful actions by believing they must like the person that they helped resolving any cognitive dissonance they may feel. Which is what I was saying, I'm going to go, but what we want to know is why is it called the Benjamin Franklin? Did he do this? Was he like the captain of small favors? Maybe they just want to do it more. Oh, origin got it. Okay. Finally, the effect is named after Benjamin Franklin, one of the founding fathers of the United States. Franklin famously used the strategy to improve his relationship with a political rival. He asked the rival to lend him a rare book, which flattered the rival and led to more amicable led to a more amicable relationship.

44:59Franklin noted that people are more likely to help those they have already assisted, illustrating the principle behind the effect. So now we know. Okay. So, as a figure enemy, like, can I borrow that book? Yeah. Or your rival or just someone you want them to like you. Okay. I'm going to try this out more. You know, okay. So we got to the final role. And this is the one that I feel like I talk about the most and it's the scapegoat. So the scapegoat while the hero is the golden child, the scapegoat would be the problem child. What is interesting about this is in reality, the scapegoat often is one of the most holthiest in the family. They just don't appear that way. You're looking at me like, how is that? Because like the scapegoat usually is like when I think of scapegoat, I think of like a kid and like a leather jacket and spiked hair and chains and like,

46:04I don't know, like bad smoke cigarettes. Yeah, you when you were like, this is me, I'm just a smoke cigarettes now. That was for six weeks. Yeah. So that's what like my brain goes to. But the scapegoat really is a kid who is no longer playing by the same dysfunctional rules that the family is playing by. So a lot of times they're the truth tellers in the family, but the family might not want the truth to be told. So they act out because they don't want to play the game that the family is playing. They don't want to just keep the status quo of the dysfunction. So they're going to go essentially tell on the family by acting out in other ways. Yeah, that makes sense. I definitely, especially as a child, the gosh, even thinking as an adult that has had a lot of work. Yeah. I still like to keep the status quo. Oh, so this was not you don't feel like I don't think I'm ever someone.

47:05I mean, I could ruffle some feathers a little bit. I mean, I've other people in my family that have gone through drama on their extended sides of family. And I want to like step in and yeah, for justice to be served. Like I've ruffled some feathers and initiated conversations and probably dabbled in stuff I shouldn't have. But that wasn't my immediate family, but I. I wonder if I was the one directly involved if I'm just like I would just let it be because I don't want to. You don't want the conflict and don't want the conflict, but at the same time, I'm thinking about how I've come in and try to help people that I love. Yeah, which might not like, because I'm not in this system. I'm not in this system. I'm an outsider being like, this is not right. So I want to step in and try to figure it out. But I do wonder if I was directly in it, which is a lot of them were and they were all just like acting like this wasn't a thing. And I'm like, but that's what they're do. They're just playing the game. That's their status quo and it's a game. And it's like why why rock the boat?

48:06This is just we're going to keep keep on living. Well, and what is interesting about escape. Because they don't usually know that they are like the truth teller. They often just feel they feel very different from the family like they feel like an outsider because they have this part of them that's like I'm not I don't I don't want to go along with these rules that we've been playing by. And there are a lot of times the ones that get identified as like the identified patient of the family. The scapegoat is often the one that ends up in treatment or therapy or whatever. And then the family is just at home waiting for them to get better. But what happens is when the scapegoat goes and gets help. That makes it even worse for the family because they're not going to reintegrate into the family. Then the family doesn't have that person to blame for dysfunction. They have to look at okay, what's actually going on. So it ends up one of the best weekends when I worked in treatment was family weekend because what would happen is we would have clients come in.

49:08We would get to know them and their stories and all that they would get working on their stuff and then when they're ready they would have their family weekend their family would come. And I think the family would come expecting to be like okay, you fixed my kid or you fixed my spouse or you fixed my brother fix the problem. Yes, so ever that maybe and then when they get there we start talking about systems and how systems work and yes, this person is taking accountability for a 100%. Then these people are forced to like look in a mirror at like what's my part in this. And the amount of people that would like storm out of sessions was I mean not surprising but surprising. And the amount of people that would just rebel against and then they would love us and want to talk to us about updates every week. But as soon as they come to family weekend and they really get into that actual work, they're like you don't know what you're doing. Because a lot of people don't want to have a mirror put up to them.

50:08Look inward. I was seeing a therapist probably like four years ago. And I was struggling with some people in my life of just some dynamics that had changed and I felt like I had caused a huge problem and it came from a really good place. So I was just trying to figure out like did I did I do something wrong or like what am I missing here like how did this happen after like I I created this situation out of having good intentions. And the therapist was like well here is the problem. You're a truth teller you have a really hard time. Turning a blind eye and holding your and biting your tongue truth tellers hold mirrors up to people. Most people don't want to look in the mirror. So if you hold a mirror up to somebody who doesn't want to look in the mirror, they're going to find a way to flip that back on you. And so I had to learn because like what do you do with that like okay like do I just not be myself but I had to learn like okay if I am a truth teller what's the truth that actually needs to be told.

51:17And what's like my own discomfort and also who do I who are the safe people to tell the truth to. Like not everybody wants the truth and that to me was hard. So why not everybody has a truth that we can fix everything right. So I do relate to the scapegoat in a lot of areas. I don't know if I relate to it growing up as much as I do later in my life. But I don't think my I don't think my family would put me in that role. Yeah. What I'm I'm you're like I'm none of these. No, I think I lean probably more towards the mascot. Okay. Well, and it doesn't have to mask. I also like I know I explained it as like the class clown. But it really is it can be any kind of like how you I might tell a joke to break the ice and break the tension. You might do something else to break the tension to get to get something cute. Oh yeah, to get attention. Yeah.

52:17You keep saying break the tension. I'm like when I think of me as a child, I just wanted a tension. Yeah. So I would do. I don't know. Maybe. I feel like there's probably two parts of me of like when my parents were together and then when they were in but when my parents were together, I had very little memory of that. But I was I was nine. So that I'd lived. Yeah. That's a lot of my childhood. I mean, that's half my years at home. But I don't have a lot of memories of that. I do think that after my mom went back to work when my dad left and she wasn't around as much. I don't remember. I became more problematic. That call was really pivotal for me. Hey, it's Emily Tish Sussman. And this is an unsheep Hivitz, the podcast where women share bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything.

53:18I sit down with culture shifting women who share their pivots like Para Olympian Alley Truett. I was like, I'm on out from a shark attack. There's no way in 11 months I'm making the very little. Advocate Elizabeth Smart. I still feel that drive that I can still make a difference. So I'm going to keep going. Celebrity chef Carla Hall was that scary to walk away from such a stable career after just two years? No, I was more afraid of being unhappy than I was broke and in a dead and job that I didn't enjoy. And feminist legend, Gloria Steinem. All of us were trying to express women's real lives. We need a meeting place of our own. And if I can contribute to that, I'd like to maintain that and leave this house for that purpose. Listen to Sheep Hivitz on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday on our podcast. Lots to say with me, Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. We also bring in friends and mostly match friends who are current or former NFL players.

54:22Some of the biggest names in music and entertainment. And then we have some really great conversations that can pretty much go anywhere. The great. Take man Jones. After the game to hold national task force for police officers was at the stadium. Like, hey, buddy, yeah, you out of... come on. And one of my favorite segments we do is called situational awareness. Where Bobby and I give each other real life situations and figure out what we'd actually do. You're in training camp and the rookie quarterback has one good throwing session in front of the media. Suddenly, everybody online says he should start over you week one. How do you handle this? You just go back out to practice the next day and we affirm the mess up. Listen to Lost to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors? Who will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other.

55:22And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough. We reached for a feeling that exists in this city. But we're not stopping, are we? I'm Ben that of Half-Rate. And for my new series on revisionist history, I took a deep dive in the Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York City in the 1990s. And what it all has to do with the politics of resentment that dominate America today. Listen to revisionist history, the Staten Island problem on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is J. Valentine. I've spent my career on the executive side of this industry, multi-platinum songs, building artists and building business. And alongside my brother Tank, the superstar R&B singer, songwriter and producer, we've created something special, the R&B Money Podcasts.

56:22This is not just a podcast, it's a safe space where artists, executives, and fans of R&B music come to reminisce. Pull back the curtain and tell the stories that shaped this culture, the real history behind the hits. That was hood famous. And then real love came out and it blew up. We lived in a project. And there's the end of all the success. They hear the music and we had nothing. We're covering the entire spectrum from Smokey Robinson, Alicia Keys, B2K, Mary J. Blige, Legends, Current Stars and everyone who's contributed to the sound of R&B. You come out the gate with a hit. And then nothing Michael Jackson out of number one. Come on man. I was like, hold on. I'm not gonna MJ out of the number one spot. If you're a super dedicated R&B fan who wants the real discovery, the real stories, this is your podcast. This is the R&B Money Podcasts. Listen to R&B Money from the Black Effect Podcasts Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I have a hypothesis.

57:26And this could be very wrong. But I just am thinking I would need to sit on this for a while. But I wonder if there is a part of you that is the scapegoat and thinking more so like because the scapegoat is... You have to remember they're not like thinking I'm doing this because of this. But think about like how when we have feelings and we don't acknowledge them, they come out in crazy ways. Right? And they're come out sideways and maybe we're not expressing ourselves and what we actually want. If I'm thinking about you and your story and what you've shared growing up with your parents and all of that. And then your history later with your disorder eating and all of that. You're giving me scapegoats because that becomes the problem. All of your behaviors become the problem versus you're not getting what you needed in a lot of areas in your life.

58:26And so then it's like we have to fix Amy's eating disorder versus where did this start and how did it come about. So then you're the identified patient of the family. But if we trace it back, there's a lot of dysfunction in all of what's going on. That's just how you were dealing with it maybe. And that could be... you could throw that back. Yeah, I'm not sure. I would have to really think about it. I just know that I created a lot of tension with my mom. I was very combative and scapegoat. I was angry. Yeah. Looking back, I was angry. But like at my dad's I was so nice. Yeah. So I don't know. It's interesting. I have to sit with that. And I mean, I've done some family weeks not with my own parents. But I've... Did you walk out? Did you slam the door of the therapist's face? No. When I did a family week with my ex-husband,

59:27I... it's like... And we've done multiple... we have adopted kids, so we've done a lot of intensive. And... Yeah, you do have to realize your role. Yeah. And... I've got you done a good job of... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And the... And we've done a kids honour... And a... And the... And the... And the... And, the... And the... And we've... And to... And. And to... And then the ... And the... And they... And they... Definitely nobody. Yes, but that's... Which is pretty so hard, you know. Maybe you liked her to everybody. She had everything with her mother, doing a dance and a lot of times people want to keep doing their dance at their family does,

1:00:30but you have to create a new dance, a healthier dance, some more functional dance after those moments. And I feel like from my perspective, you've done a good job of owning, I mean, nobody's perfect, but like owning your stuff and looking at roots of things versus pointing fingers. Because I will say it's so easy and I want to do it a lot. I have talked to you about how I want to stop being so negative sometimes because sometimes I feel like I point fingers because it's easier to do that than realize like what's going on with me. Just like today when I said I almost got in a car wreck and I was like this teenager almost hit me and if I'm honest, the light was turning yellow when I turned. So I maybe shouldn't have turned. You know, and this is the second week in a row. You've almost died on a car wreck. Yeah, so I'm like it might be me, but it's easier to be like this kid wasn't paying attention. Mm-hmm. I made kids both. Yeah. Well, there you go. Some stuff

1:01:38look into when it comes to your family dynamic and seeing maybe who you are as a kid, who you are now, how do your kids stack up? Yeah, like what is Zoe going to be? I know. We'll see. That'll be fun to find this. We'll see in 15 years. Yeah, we'll record that episode later. Tune in in 2040. Good math. Oh, thanks. Did you just add? It was 2026. Yeah, I added 14. Cool. So math is not my strength at all. We do have drumroll. Our Hasbro moment of the week now. I'm going to read an email that we got and then we'll do a little sweet fun. Give away. Hey, Amy and Kat, I was listening the last week's episode about your back to school partnership with Hasbro Games and I got so excited as this hits close to home and I wanted to send you my story. My son,

1:02:38Elijah is autistic and has struggled with severe social anxiety throughout his elementary school years. Connecting and playing with his classmates has often felt overwhelming for him. And honestly, it has been difficult for me to watch him want those friendships, but not always know how to step into them. Last year his teacher, Mrs. Owens, who is genuinely an angel on earth, we wouldn't be where we are today without her. Introducing to Hiho Cheerio and the hungry hippos board games. Elijah absolutely loved them and before long those games became more than just something fun to do in the classroom. They became his way of joining in, engaging with other students and beginning to make friends. Something as simple as gathering around a game gave him a comfortable way to connect without the pressure he usually felt in social situations. Those games truly became a gateway to friendship and community for him and I will always be grateful to Mrs. Owens for recognizing what he needed and helping create that opportunity. When I heard you talking about Hasbro Games last week,

1:03:42I immediately went to Walmart and bought some new games for his new classroom. I always try to give his teacher a simple gift at the beginning of the school year and this felt like the perfect one. Something that could help another child connect and feel included the way Elijah did. I already bought games for my son's classroom but if you wanted to do a gift card for our school here in Wichita, I know the teachers would all benefit from having some new games to welcome students back this year. I love you both and the show. Thank you for always sharing helpful things and keeping a smile on this girl's face. Tiffany and Wichita, Kansas. Which Tiffany? Yes, our friends at Hasbro, they want to send your school $8,000 Walmart gift card to get all the games for the classroom. So exciting. I know. I'm like, when she said, these shoes of phrase, like games became a gateway to friendship and I'm like, yes, they are. And I don't think a lot of people realize,

1:04:46yes, gateway to friendship and gateway to connecting but also it's like a gateway to learning too. You don't realize that you're actually, you can be learning while you're playing. Hasbro, working. Yeah. Oh, I even think of playing guests who and having asking questions and problem solving and working your brain in a way to prepare it to learn other things. Yeah, it's just the games can come in handy for all kinds of things. All kinds of things. Yeah, I think guests who monopoly and clue would all be games that do that. Yeah, guests who was definitely a clutch on for me and clue. Oh, yeah. Oh, clue. I mean, monopoly is just like a staple for sure for sure. But when I think back what I wanted to play the most as a kid, I feel like my family, they maybe all monopolies won everybody's at town, but I was probably always the one begging like, I want to play clue. That's interesting to me. Colonel Mustard in the dining room with the candle stick. I feel like I wore my family out with guests who and then you get to know the like characters in the faces and they become your friends. Yeah. If you're looking for fun ways to build confidence and

1:05:54and skills, all the ones we're talking about, you can find these Hasbro favorites at your local Walmart or you can tap the link in our show notes as a way to explore all that they have because everything we're talking about is going to be curated into that link and you can grab games for your family or like Tiffany you did and think, oh, this was helpful for my kids. So now I want to go buy games for his teachers. And as a mom, I like being reminded too. It's good to think of teachers, giving them a little back to school gift. And maybe they would want a little gift card to somewhere. And now in this case, shout out, Hasbro and Walmart. It's going to be a thousand dollar gift card, but just teachers knowing that you think of them, even if it's like for a coffee or something. But this is just a way where maybe they would enjoy the gift, but it's a gift for their whole classroom because kids would get to play the game for years to come. So thank you so much Hasbro. Thank you Tiffany for that email and thank you Walmart and Yay Games. Yay game.

1:06:59Thank you all so much. We'd love to hear from you if you would like to submit for the Hasbro Walmart give back the Hasbro moment. You can email us, hey, they're at FeelingThingsPodcast.com. And you can also call us and leave a voicemail. 877-207-2077. We would absolutely love to hear from you whether it's that or you have comments about the show. You have a catch up we need to try or you've got a question about your family dynamic and catving an excellent therapist we can give it our best and try to unpack it in a couch talks episode. So we'd love to hear from you and we hope wherever you are you have the day. You need to. Bye. Bye. It's the US Open which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind and I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down.

1:08:00The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugarcoating, just host analysts from someone who's actually been there. Coco, looking real good, her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see Yiga back to what she looked like a couple of years ago and she was winning dominantly. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there everybody, Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. A lot of times the story of the day is what we're all talking about and buzzing about and yes sometimes it's love Island and sometimes it's Serena ropes. Coming back to the US Open, sometimes it's obsession and Spider-Man making box office history. Hopefully Rose, people get our point. Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome aboard season six of the Girlfriend. It's a great experience, flight or fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky.

1:09:05A beautiful woman smiles and hands you a Scotch, but you have no idea just how messed up her job actually is. It was the most sexist job I think you could have. Until one day, a group of Stuartis's spark a revolution that reshapes America. Listen to the Girlfriends, flight or fight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On big lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image, discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. At Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:10:06This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.