Gabe Jett: Breaking the Yips, Elite Underwaters, and Finding Identity Beyond Swimming | Episode 287

I'm excited to watch me eat his breakfast here for 45 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just not even talk.

We'll just John and I will breakfast with Gabe. Yeah.

So he's a whole show of you just eating and Brian and I talk about the Super Bowl.

Welcome to Social Kick. I'm Brian Lundquist. We got a partial crew. Luke's out of the country,

but we've got Dr. John Mullin me and him and our post Super Bowl hangover, not really. We had

out a few beers, but you know, and then we got Gabe Jet joining us. What's up Gabe? How are you, man?

What's up, guys? Thanks for having me. What's for breakfast this morning?

So today I have for you a little quiche with some ham from the bakery down the street and then they

do daily fresh raspberry croissants. Wow. Yeah. When you guys start asking questions, I'll dig into

this. Damn. That sounds pretty good to me. Yeah. Yeah. You just eat and we'll carry on from here.

Just taking on. All right. We are going to start with a few audience questions for Gabe Jet.

You actually, I'll let you know, we always ask our guests usually off air. So for the listeners

after the show ends, we usually say a little adios to the guests that we have on. And lately,

we've gotten a lot of requests or mentions from guests that they would like for us to interview you,

which you've been on the show before, once as part of a panel, but not for like a solo interview.

And so we've had a prior guest mentioned that they want us to talk to you. We've also had followers

on Instagram say, hey, you guys should have Gabe Jet on. So you're a popular guy. My guy.

Yeah. What can I say? What can I say? What can I say? He's working. They're working here.

Popular guy. So we're going to dig into some of the, we're going to dig into some of the audience

questions that got submitted at social kick swim on Instagram and YouTube. This one's from Mason

Duffy. He said he wants to know about the underwater work that led to your split on the 4x2 at

NCAAs. And maybe you just say like, hey, underwater work in general because you're kind of an underwater

master. Well, thank you. I'm not about master, but great question because that's that race.

My split on that 4x2, I felt like my underwater's were probably at their best or maybe second best

right to Nationals World Trials last year, which is when I made the world's team. But I mean,

200 short course, you got eight walls or a dive in seven walls. And I don't like, I guess I

can say I've always had good underwater's. But I think when I got to Cal, we, we were swimming

with Chase Critler, who's the pit head coach now. He was my like, he was my guy, my freshman year

because he was the distance squad. And the first like six weeks or like five to six weeks of

the year, we always do like skills and drills, which is just like getting back into swimming and

figuring stuff out. And we have guidelines. You've probably heard about this from other

counselors, but like training guidelines are like, you got to get out of the pool with both legs,

like a deck up and do all sorts of things. But one of them was we used to do, we don't do any more,

but we used to do two kicks on your, every time you push off the wall, two kicks on your back,

two on your side, two on your stomach. So six and then one for a breakout stroke. So we're doing seven

kicks every wall. And in a distance practice, we're doing like 300s pink or white with like six

cases every wall. So like, I was just doing that because it was required by the team. And then

I never really stopped because I found that I was way worse at swimming over the water than I was

under the water. So like literally until maybe a year ago, I was like much faster under under the

water than I was the water. I figured out how to swim freestyle now. But I guess yeah, I don't know,

I didn't see this. I was just trying to push it to a number that I had never done before. So I

used to do five kicks every wall on a 200 yard free. And my whole senior here, I was just doing like

eight kicks every wall, eight kicks every wall for a whole for the whole workout. I think for

underwater, it's just consistency. If I were to boil my hands are down, just start. If you do one

dolphin kick every wall, start it to and do two for two weeks and then go three for two weeks and

then go for like just out of kick every two weeks. And at some point, you're doing eight kicks

every wall on your faster than you're swimming. And yeah, I think I didn't see that that realized what

I did eight kicks every wall and then like, pushed a little, a little longer the last wall. I'm like,

try, I try to kick out to 15 on the last wall. So yeah, it's crazy how that stuff compounds

and to share a personal anecdote. This year, I saw some guy like on Instagram last year. Like,

you know, we just went through like the New Year's thing and people said annual goals. And I saw

this guy who did a push up for every day of the year. And so by the end of like Q4, he's doing

300 plus push ups every day. He's counting like a number of days. And so then I, so I got onto it.

And so I started with doing a hundred push ups a day and now I'm up to 200 a day. And when I first

did it, I was, and it's just like, you know, come out pretty quick. It doesn't take that long. But

I was like, oh, I wonder, it'd be interesting to like do a new thing. And so like the first time I

did it, I did a set of 20. And then I did 10s, 10s, 10s all the way. And I was like kind of tired

by the end of it. And now I'm already like, I've been doing it for a month. And I'm at the point

where I can do a set of 40 and then a set of 30. And then it's like, you know, it compounds really

quickly. So I think it's, it's no surprise that kicking would be the same way, you know, you just

start like you make a commitment, you be consistent with it. And with that consistency, like it

compounds like faster than you might think. Totally. That's really cool. That's a nice, cool thing.

Just like fun, something else to do, you know, I'm old. But what, what did you guys think when

Lucas do then? Dude, it's crazy. Like Jack and I had absolutely no idea what happened.

Because I mean, it's right after a tuna free all out, you hop out and you're like, you're

freaking out. It's loud. You can't hear anything. And like, I remember getting out of my split,

cheering for who would dove and after destined. And I was like, just so freaked out, the destined

touch-to-head of the team next to us that like Lucas dove in. And then when he was coming back

for that first 50, I was like, maybe he's just pacing it like really?

I didn't know. I wasn't really watching like text, so I was just like watching Destiny come in.

And like, I didn't realize like we were like a good bit ahead. And then like, they flipped

together at the first 50. And like, I just thought it's Lucas. He's a distance from her. Maybe

he just like kind of took it out. So and it wasn't literally till like, I think we like did our

interview, everything like celebrated went back to the team area. And Lucas is like still

hand in his hands. And I was like, I was like, dude, like we just spoke the record, like be happy.

He's like, he's like, bro, like my, he just like starts like freaking out. Like my hands,

my hands came apart and all this. And I was like, where'd you go? And then he's like, I think

of 131. And I was like, oh man, like we broke the record. And he went 131. Like, I just know Lucas

is better than that. So we didn't know. And then there was the whole, did he touch the bottom of the

pool and all that stuff. And it's kind of fun. We were mainly just laughing about it because like,

Jack and I had no, we had no idea what happened. We just thought he's not very good on the first 50.

Sure. Yeah. I can imagine from the angle behind the blocks, you don't have like a good vantage

point either. And obviously, you know, if you're just getting out of the pool, you don't really like,

you know, you're not watching it. But from the stands, it was crazy. And we were all like, whoa,

like what the heck happened to that? But yeah. Also, I think it's funny to hear somebody

was like, I only went 131. And, you know, I know that's the way things are now, but like 131 is still

pretty fast. Yeah. Exactly. Well, that's Lucas. That's why we put him on the anchor. You know, he's still

went, still went so fast and still got the, got the dub for us. Right. Okay. More audience

questions. This one's from WG goes fast. He wants to know how often do you eat at a restaurant?

How often do I eat at a restaurant?

That's right.

Every morning, every day, I guess, which maybe is that not good? This is a very interesting

question. Like, what's the, what's the subtext behind this? You know, maybe because I enjoy posting

food on my Instagram. Maybe that's maybe that's it. Yeah. I'm a lover of find dining. I have

an appreciation for culinary excellence. And there's such good food in the Bay Area. Like, I don't

I don't know.

I feel like it's not too bad to eat at restaurants a lot.

What kind of culinary excellence are you most into these days?

What kind of cuisine?

Recently, Indian food.

Been loving it.

There's a place down the street.

Go get some lamb tikka masala.

It's good.

I love Indian food.

It's so good.

Yeah.

All right.

This one, I didn't, so this one's from Austin,

well, they throw up, said, why is your freestyle rate

some attire than your competitors?

Is it?

Dude, I don't know.

I'm trying to fix it.

I've been working on this since I was in high school, Austin.

All right.

Come on.

Get off my back.

Dude, I know.

I don't know.

The thing is, it is to Brian, if you were to look at me

versus the field of even Americans,

I think I take my rate is a lot higher.

But I also kick out further.

So I'm taking probably the same amount of strokes.

It's probably like, I'm taking six more kicks,

but what, like three more strokes.

I don't know if, like, I used to think

that I didn't catch water, and that's why.

Because I just, like, I just kind of slip through the water

like that.

But then, like, I do catch water, because I'm moving

at a pretty, like, pretty good clip.

So I don't know.

Maybe it's, maybe I have short arms, but I don't.

So I don't know.

I think it's my stroke just has a little bit more of an,

you call a gallop, a little more of a flow to it.

And then someone who, like, I don't, I don't kick, like,

fully all the way in a 200 freestyle, kind of, like,

kick, burst, kick, burst, and glide.

And so I kind of lay out on my left arm more.

And like, my freestyle is just really lopsided

and really goofy.

So Austin, I've been working on

evening my freestyle out and being longer

and taking less strokes.

But at the end of the day, when I'm racing, it's too free.

I'm going pretty fast.

So it doesn't matter how many strokes I take, you know?

But I do, I compare myself to Luke a lot,

because he's, you know, he's the best 200 freestyle

player now, one of the best in the world, if not the best.

And his freestyle is so nice and long.

He takes like half as many strokes as I do.

So I'm always trying to work on that.

But I think he's a better kicker than me.

So like, yeah.

Do you think Luke's a better kicker than you on top

of the water?

Yeah, like, like, like, flutter kick.

I feel like he's, yeah, I'm really bad at it.

Like, I think my best long course 50 kick

is like a 37 one time.

Like I'm bad, but, yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, I'm awful at kicking with the board.

Like I can kick underwater, put a board on me.

It's always wraps.

Yeah, there's this between, oh, you go ahead.

Well, I was just saying, oh, one of my good, you know,

good friends and teammates, Ava Chavez on Cal swim,

Shada Ava, she just had a really good,

so median Stanford 14323, pretty nasty.

She's a really good kicker.

And I remember a couple of years ago, like,

Dave, when Ava was a freshman,

Dave would put her 10 seconds behind me

on our long course mornings and tell her to go,

like, catch me on 50s kick.

Like, I, because I can't break 40 long course.

Like, it's really hard for me to break 40.

And like, Ava's consistently going like this,

so she gave her just a bit.

All right, Ava, go cast game.

And then, like, yeah, it was bad.

I get, um, what a fun feeling.

Ground up swim makes a summer league for ground ups.

How many swimmers got into swimming because of some of the,

and it's because they got into the fun part

about swimming, eating a hot dog,

pounding some fun dip and getting on the block and racing.

So why not continue that as an adult?

Why let kids have all the fun?

Why can't adults have a summer league

and remember how much fun swimming can be?

I'm just don't really matter.

You get to do silly races.

You can eat fun snacks and be a beer.

I plan on whooping some butt when I race that

and getting up and going and beating some people,

particularly beaten Luke.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, Brian, what are you saying?

No, you're good, go ahead, John.

What about a dolphin kick with a board?

Is this also not, not fast or it's only flutter kick?

It's not as fast.

Like a board significantly slows me down.

I don't know why.

I feel like I can kick pretty fast.

Does Lucas the best in the group?

100%.

Yeah.

By how much?

Like a good amount.

Ryan's also really, really, really good at kicking flutter

kicking.

Those two might be, Lucas is just like his kick

just gets exponentially faster the longer you go.

Because I can do, I can honestly,

if I push to 50 kick right now,

like I'd be middle of the pack if not towards the top

of the pack on a 50 kick.

We flip and push off and do 10 more meters.

Like it's over.

And that's the same for like a lot of guys, I feel.

Lucas could do a 300 kick.

And he would just start lapping, he'd just be gone.

Like he's so, he's a good kicker.

Did you guys ever do cold turkey stuff?

Sometimes we used to do that, not so much in the college

team, but in the pro group.

Back in the day, we would do, like, just start off

with a 50 cold turkey kick with a board.

Hop in the water, boom, all out.

Did you guys do stuff like that?

That sounds horrible.

No.

I mean, it hurts.

No, I don't think we would ever do that.

Like we do, we don't warm up a lot.

I think compared to some stuff,

some practices that seems from other teams,

like they warm up more than us.

But it's because we're like, we're pretty like quick with it.

Like we get in, we do like fast stuff right away.

But it's never fast.

It's like 25s.

That'll be interesting.

Maybe we should try that.

I'm pretty good cold turkey.

So maybe that would like benefit me, you know?

All right, so what's Lucas going?

And let's say 100 kick with a board

and then a 300 kick with a board, long course.

I don't know if he would know his numbers like way,

but I don't pay attention to numbers.

I just all I see is like Lucas is very far ahead of me.

So I should hurry up like that's all I see.

I don't know, it's long course.

Like, let's say he's going 35 and 35.

He's going 110.

I don't know, like that's like, I think that's average.

Like, he's definitely way faster than that.

But like, I feel like he could hold that, you know?

If we do it like, he's just going to go 35.

Then he's going to go 35.

Then he's going to do that six more.

Like, I feel like he's just very, he's very insane.

It's why I said you get freestyle.

It just never slows down.

So I've tried to explain how to kick to non-swimmers,

or people that are new to swimming.

And it's a difficult thing to explain how you're supposed

to be able to hold the water.

Because I think it's such a feel thing.

And for me, like, the only thing I can teach people to do

is, well, kind of two things come to mind.

One is think about like you're kicking a soccer ball.

And then the second is, like, do some vertical kick.

Because I feel like vertical kick is the best way

to like find body line and also find

where you can like keep propulsion in that, that like motion.

But as somebody who's like, maybe not like the A level kicker

amongst a bunch of elite swimmers,

has anybody tried to like explain it to you?

Or have you like, what is there like a technique

that you're trying to figure out

on how to become a better freestyle kicker?

I think it's the same as dolphin kicks.

Because as soon as you get the basic motion down,

you're just building your muscles.

And you're just building like, I don't know.

Like I remember my freshman year or something,

Destin, who like is the guy to listen to,

because he's just good at everything.

He was just like, yeah, there's no real technique to flurking.

You just have to do it a bunch.

I was like, okay, that really helps me.

Because like, I feel like there's something fundamentally wrong

with my flur kick.

He's like, oh, you just have to do it more.

I'm like, okay, I don't know.

The kicking a soccer ball is good.

Like, dude, have you seen that?

Like, have you seen that Russian guy on Instagram Reels

who like has a whistle and he like teaches kids

how to like, he like, he like does like,

really animated swimming, like lessons.

Dude, I've seen this guy's like,

I'm way, and he's like,

they have, he's like demonstrating,

he's like, beep, and he goes, beep.

Yes.

I have seen this guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been a while.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

He like lays on the yoga ball and like,

is like, gyrating on the yoga ball to like show out.

Yeah, that's what I imagine.

But I'm like, trying to explain to someone

how to kick on a board.

Just watch the Russian guy on Instagram Reels.

He's good.

That's good advice.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is good.

I haven't seen this stuff in a while,

but I do remember it now.

Yeah.

All right, let's come back to one final audience question.

This is from, well, maybe we'll hit two more, actually.

Once from a starkey underscore,

Liam wanted to know what's her favorite tech suit.

Dude, I've been wearing the same tech suit for five years,

and I'm gonna keep wearing it.

It's on the end of my career.

Speedo Valor, high waist.

Okay.

It's good.

I like a suit that doesn't feel like I'm wearing anything.

Like, I feel like I, I'd be just as,

not just as good in a speedo, but like that feeling,

I wanna have, I hate when I feel like my legs are inside

something like heavy, like the intent

or even like a Mizuno or anything.

I just discovered that a while ago and it's the best.

24 is my size that I wear.

24 high waist Valor.

Jay, like our director of ops, Jay knows exactly

like what my suit order is.

Like, hasn't looked at it in three years.

It just sends me 24 high waist Valor every time.

It's a good suit.

Having an option that works with my affinity for swimming

and my love for being in the pool

that can help me by, you know,

taking care of the wrinkles before the pool,

you know, with the goggles.

So I don't look like I've been in the pool day

to not being itchy, to smelling nice.

It's kind of nice to have an option

that does all those things.

You can enjoy these benefits too.

Go to try hard and use code social care

for 20% off your order.

And have you tried all the other suits?

Sounds like you have a base off what you just described.

So you actually, you know,

we'll test them out or try them and find what works for you.

Yeah, well, I mean, the last time we talked,

I was on that, I was on the call with,

who's I on there with?

Who be and Brendan?

Brendan Burns?

Yeah.

What a squad.

Yeah.

What a squad.

And it's funny because like, immediately after that,

I got really slow at swimming for like three years

and like, now I'm back again.

So like,

I don't like that far.

But there were some ups and downs.

Well, no, I'm not thinking.

I'm not saying I had to do with you guys,

but like, I would call that my plateau period,

which was like after sophomore year

all the way to this, this most recent year.

And like during that time,

I was desperately looking for a reason

as to why I was swimming so bad.

And part of that was, it must be the suit, right?

It can't be anything other than the suit.

So like, I tried arena suits, I tried tier suits,

I wore Mizuno's, I think Olympic trials,

I wore a Mizuno for the 100 fly,

a tier suit for the four free,

and a Speedo suit for the two free,

and I went slow and all of them.

So let's be honest with you.

I'm starting to think it might not be a suit.

But yeah, I've tried all sorts of suits.

I, in high school, I was arena.

I did the Mizuno for the thing for a little bit.

You know, it's kind of a trend,

but I just find that swimming with,

feeling like there's nothing on me

is the best way to go.

Cause I'm good enough.

So what do you think you attribute the break out

of the plateau to?

Cause we definitely, we definitely notice that too,

we're like holy shit.

Did you?

Like up there in the, not necessarily the plateau,

it was just like you're really good early,

and then it, I don't know how to say this like bluntly.

It's like, yeah, from the, from the early success,

it's not necessarily the same, like, you know,

up into the right sort of chart, like, you know,

and not everybody is winning or like that.

But then, you know, last summer, then it's like, okay.

Like here, here's, you know, the potential.

And, and you know, like we don't know you well.

You've been in our show, but from a distance,

we're just like swim fans and, and, and could see that too.

And so you pointed at the, the, the mental side.

What's the, what's behind that?

I mean, I've explained this a lot to like the people

in my life, but it, it was a really long, it felt like,

it felt like a really long period in my life

where I was just, I just hated swimming.

I wanted to quit a lot.

It was like very difficult, because like you said,

like the, the trajectory, I mean, my freshman year,

I was like, I was like not so good in high school,

you know, like I was a unranked recruit or whatever.

And then like, got to Cal, made an C's, made an A final.

And then like, immediately after I won U.S. nationals,

granted it was the U.S. nationals weren't knowing

I was there, but like 154 to fly, like it's still my best time,

which is crazy.

Still my best time, 154 low.

And then like sophomore year, you know, scored a bunch at NC2A's,

kept riding that.

And it was just mental, mental collapse.

I think swimming, at the time of when I was on the podcast last

and when I was doing really well, as a younger swimmer,

swimming was my entire life.

Like it was where I, like if I woke up in the morning

and felt like a fast swimmer, I felt like a confident person.

Like it was, those things were like,

I could not separate the swimming from Gabriel as a person.

And so the, when I had my first taste of swimming bad,

which like, probably world trials that Fukuoka year in 2023,

didn't make the final in the two fly,

which like I was slated with my best time

to either get top two or win the event.

I went 157, pretty bad.

Probably, I can probably attribute that to my lack of

consistent training my sophomore year

and a lot of lifestyle decisions outside of the pool.

I went 157.

It's not awful, but for me, that was like, I suck.

And like when you have this thought in your head of like,

when I swim good, I can like be confident and be,

I'm like, I'm the cool Gabriel jet.

And when I swim slow, like I'm not,

it's just an awful thing.

So that just took me and my confidence as a person,

like, way down the drain.

So then it was like, I like, I called it the yips

because like, look, dude, Lucas and I were looking

at Lucas and our good friends.

And we like, we like talking about swimming and stuff.

We were looking at it.

I didn't break two minutes for like two and a half calendar years.

Like, from 2023 Fukuoka trials, I went 157.

I did the two fly probably like eight to 10 times

between then and this last year's trials

where I went fast.

The fastest one I went was 201.

And we're like, that's great.

That's awful.

Like that, okay, I'm not saying that.

Relatively, yeah.

Yeah, but like for a guy who makes NC28A finals

and won Nationals as a freshman,

like I was adding average eight seconds in my best event.

Like it was, it was bad.

And like, it felt like a curse.

Like it literally felt like anytime I would do it.

Cause I would go out fat fine.

I'd go out 55 in these two flies.

And the last 50, I'd go 33.

The last 50, I'd go 34 or five.

Like at Olympic trials, I went 204 in the two fly.

And that was really, that wasn't fun.

I got like 30 if there's something like that.

With my best time would have won the US trials, you know?

Like I was watching that, right?

It's like, you know, I'm in there.

But it took a lot, took a lot of talking with Dave,

took a lot of talking with my parents,

took a lot of soul searching, you call it or whatever.

But I just, in that time of being slow,

and it's almost like a, or not slow,

not living, not swimming to my full potential.

We can call it in that time.

It almost like forced me to start building a life

for myself outside of swimming.

And I really fell in love with my major, the film major,

and which I do as a, almost a career now.

And like a, or a side hustle,

whatever you want to call it, a hobby.

I started investing in my friends more,

my relationship, my girlfriend.

We started dating about a year and a half ago.

Like there are all sorts of things that like,

I started to build up within myself and around myself

as like, this is Gabriel Jet.

It's not the swimming.

It's not the 154 to fly.

Like, which it totally used to be.

Like, I don't know, like, I feel like I can remember myself

thinking like I am my fast swimming in an indirect way.

And so it just sort of took all that building back up.

And then I took a really long break after Olympic trials.

It was like two and a half months or three months

or something like that.

And it's because I wanted to quit.

I was like, Dave, I'm done.

And Dave basically, I mean, I wasn't going to quit

because it's my senior year and we had to go try to win NCs.

So Dave like, not coerced me,

but was like, encouraged me to get back in and try new things

and but take a break first.

It was like big break and then come back in and like,

approach it with a fresh mind.

So that break was really good.

Came back in and I was just doing all sorts of new things

and swimming and not thinking about it.

But like the main thing that changes like my relationship to it,

I was like swimming.

But like I could have a bad practice and it'd be fine.

It wouldn't be like, why is the fast Gabriel jet

having a bad practice?

Like those things used to bother me.

And now it's like, I'm going to do my thing.

I'm going to do my thing.

And then went to all PBs, short course

and then went PBs long course.

And so that was kind of, that was the up and down.

But I feel like it's, it's not that I like found it again.

It's more like, I'm actually living up to my potential

because I have a firm foundation like this time.

Yeah, that's what I attribute it to.

When it, thank you for sharing that.

When you are kind of in that mindset of, you know,

swimming is the identity and then that comes with this,

like I added sort of pressure and expectation to it

instead of being able to swim free and having, you know,

a stable relationship to it.

How does that manifest in your actual physical body?

Does that mean that like you'd go out on pace,

but you're swimming tight.

And so you're putting in more effort to do it.

And therefore, like, you know, what you're not actually

transcending the training to show up, what you're,

because obviously you're still like doing hard work in the pool.

So is that kind of what ends up happening?

What's funny is I was training like really, really well

and really hard.

Like I, Dave and I thought, and the, almost the moral story,

the moral of the story to me is like,

works smart and not harder.

And like, that's a really simplified way.

But like, a really good example is the Olympic trials.

Like this, this meet where it's like,

I totally physically have the capabilities to go

finish top two and be an Olympian for the rest of my life,

you know, in the Paris, Paris games.

And we like thought that the best way to do that was to train

a bunch of distance freestyle and qualifying the 400 free.

This is like what, this is what Dave and I came up with

because my Twitter fly had been bad.

My Twitter free is like not quite there sometimes.

And we like figured like, I'm really good in training.

Like I, I could just hammer yardage and like it would work out

because I went, we did a suited up for a free style in 2024.

Or 20, yeah, 2024.

We just suited up for a free style off the blocks,

like in practice at the end of a, of a work week.

And I went 349.

And like that's pretty, like that's pretty good for,

I feel like overall 400 to distance some of our people.

Like I don't think too many people in the world

could like do that in a practice.

It was like really easy for me, you know?

And so we were like, that gave us some sort of thought.

And like that wasn't like, oh, I'm a good summer.

Let's continue to do what I'm good at,

which is the two flying two free.

It was like, let's jump on that.

Like let's, let's try to go.

So we thought we could go through 45.

And then I went to trials went 350.

But like I was at OTC before Olympic trials.

Like hammering yardage, hammering these practices

and going really fast.

And then like when you, when you get to the meat

and that's all your thought is like, I worked so hard.

I should be good.

I was just, yeah, I think I was swimming tight.

And I was at this tremendous fear of what if I go slow?

And that was pretty much every race in that period of plateau

was I step up on the block and be like fearing for the outcome,

like fearing for the two, the two or three two fly,

which inevitably comes when you swim your body

like manifests that fear.

And like you swim like you're ready for the last 50 to hurt.

And then it does.

And then you're like, here it comes.

And then you go two or three.

Like I was just doing this over and over and over.

And it took a lot of mental.

It's almost like you got to trick your body like now.

I do this because it's true.

But like I for a little bit,

I would step up on behind the blocks for a two fly

and be like, I love the two fly and I love swing it.

And there is no last 50.

It's like the matrix.

I was like, there is no last 50.

I will just swim this and I had to learn how to swim

with no fear and it was like really crazy to do.

But to fix that, I don't know if I mentioned this to you guys

or someone else, but before World Trials this last year

when I had my breakout meet every single Saturday,

I would just do a two and a half of the blocks.

Didn't do a workout, didn't do anything.

The most of the guys were doing suited efforts

or suited sets, like four four weekends in a row.

I just did a two fly, two fly, two fly, two fly,

like off the blocks every time I went 157, 156, 155.

Like the three weeks leading into World Trials.

And it was just learning how to swim with no fear

and learning how to get up on a Saturday morning

and take no caffeine and no bicarb and just like swim or race

and just do it and hurt really bad.

So with doing those repeat two blocks,

no caffeine, no bicarb, did it just build the confidence

that you can do it you think or was it more just,

like you said, putting that fear completely behind you?

It was confidence, but like I already had the confidence.

I don't think I've ever bitten

an incompetent swimmer.

I've always seen myself as like really good.

It's almost a flaw of mine because like I just think

I'm super good.

But like I went 154 three years ago, like I don't have that.

It's not like I don't think physically I can do it.

It was more like, why am I not going fast?

Why is it hurt so bad?

Why does it, it's like, it's a two fly dude.

Like it hurts no matter what.

So like why not swim it relaxed on the first 100

and let yourself swim like like you, you know?

Another thing was like I was like 10 pounds heavier

than I am now because I also thought I had a lift a bunch

and get stronger.

So like I was just, it was working,

it was just doing this like just like just punched,

like smashing your head into the wall over and over and over.

So of course, like I was swimming slow.

I don't know, like it makes sense to me now,

but in the moment we were like,

that's a lift really hard.

Work harder, work harder, work harder.

Work harder.

And it's like, I just need to flow and let myself go

and let myself swim what I'm good at,

which what I'm good at is the two in a fly.

It's so relatable, dude.

I have to, I have to say the relationship

that you describe with a two in a fly

is a similar relationship to I had with the Hunter Free.

And I never did figure it out though,

which is so cool to talk to you and hear your perspective

on how you've navigated that

because having figured it out on the back end

is just something I wasn't able to do.

Like I never went 40, it's the one regret

that I have about my swimming careers.

I never figured out how to swim the 100.

I never was able to transcend the training

that I showed like on pace.

I was good enough, I know in my heart

that I was good enough to go 48 mid

and make the Olympic team

because that's what it totally is days.

It was like young Nathan Days.

And then I would show up, I'd swim tight on that

and then I'd get through the Hunter Free

and then I'd be like, well, all right, I guess it doesn't matter

and then I'd go swim like a ball or 50 free later in the evening.

There was like, well, if I had the speed

then how come I couldn't get out and then I would just tie up

like the last 10 meters of Hunter Free.

So you know, it seems like very similar

where I was afraid of it though.

And I know that like I knew,

go standing behind the box of the Hunter Free,

I never felt like, oh, I know how to swim this race

and I know I'm gonna be able to just like dominate it.

And so thank you for sharing.

Like there's like a method for coming through that.

That's awesome.

Well, it's like the biggest thing I see

with really good swimmers who seem like pretty unbeatable.

Like my teammate, Jack Alexey, I don't know if you've heard of him.

He's pretty good at the Hunter Free.

He's just really good at the Hunter Free.

He walks up to every Hunter Free

and like it just oozes off of him.

He's like, I'm the best.

I'm gonna go 46.

And then he just does.

It's like there's no sort of like guesswork or like do what?

Cause he trains really, really well,

really fast, really consistently.

And there are thousands of people out there

who probably train like at Jack's level day in and day out,

just like numbers, you know, speed wise or whatever.

But it's Jack's attitude where he just walks up to the block

and he's like, I'm gonna do this.

And I had to fake that a little.

It's almost like a fake it till you make it.

Like I had to reimagine what it was like to walk up to the two fly

and be like, this is my thing.

I'm gonna win this no matter what.

Like it's hard to do that.

But if you look, I think a lot of people at the college level

forget how good they are at swimming.

Cause you're just constantly comparing yourself

to the top 30 list and to the top guys in the world

and all this stuff.

Like guys on Cal struggle with this a lot where they forget

that they're good.

And I like, I really want to like help remind people,

like you are here a good summer, like you are here for a reason.

You're a really good summer.

Just remember that and then swim like it.

Like Dave always says some at your level.

It's like, it's really not, it's not a hard thing to ask

but it's sometimes a hard thing to remember.

Yeah, yeah.

God, God, that's so good.

I want to come back to the film stuff.

What's the side hustle?

What are you doing?

Well, it's not, I'd say swimming is my side hustle.

Like cause like I just, I like, I like the film stuff way more.

I'm just way more into it.

And maybe that's just right now.

But, yeah, I studied film at Berkeley.

I was a film major, I did three years of that.

And I don't know what something I'm very passionate about.

This is my camera back there.

I've just met some really cool people at Berkeley.

It's a good program.

I don't know, I want to make movies one day.

So that's, I'm going to do everything I can to get to that point.

But yeah, what's, do you have some projects

that you're working on right now then?

What's, how does that like show up in your, in your daily life?

Yeah.

Like I took an extra semester to graduate last, in the fall,

last semester, cause I was behind a couple of units

cause we did like an Olympic waiver semester, whatever in 2024.

But that class I took was like an upper div production course,

which Berkeley offers a few of them every semester.

And it's like, it's a small class.

It's like eight to 10 people.

And like you get to like check out cameras from the school

and they give you like workshops on that, actually make movies and stuff.

Cause most of the Berkeley film major is pretty theoretical.

So it's like a, I'd say it's like garden near like a history

and sociology degree and more than it is like a film degree.

But the, you, you apply to these classes you get in.

And it's like really fun cause you get to like make movies basically.

So the one I took class semester was like narrative short film.

So I made like three narrative short films, wrote the script

and made them all the way to completion.

So I'm working on my last two right now, just finishing them up

cause I want to post them on my YouTube and stuff.

I've taken the documentary version of that class,

which is you make a documentary.

And that one, that one was pretty cool.

I got like a, got screened at like the Berkeley Art Museum

for like a film festival.

If you want to, you know, go on my YouTube and watch Afterburn,

shout out my co-director, Yes, me.

That's a good one.

But I've made, I've made a few projects here there for a little bit.

I did like video marketing, like, like, get some restaurant to pay me

to make like an Instagram reel for their thing.

I was doing that for a bit.

I don't love that though.

Like I think I have more of a passion for actually making,

like stuff that I want to make.

It's hard to balance the swimming.

So I'm taking a break from video stuff right now

cause swimming is ramping up.

And I'm trying to swim fast at that.

But I think after 20, 28, that's the goal.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

All right, so two questions here.

So yeah, if you had to do a documentary on your life,

what would it be called?

And then two, would you want to do a documentary on your life?

Or that'd be just too close or too, too much?

It'd be too much.

You know what I would do though?

Like, let's say in 50 years, like, when I'm like old and retired

and have a really cool life to look back on.

Like Timothy Shalamey plays me in like a biopic and like,

how old is he?

And 50 years.

Okay.

The equivalent of Timothy Shalame in 50 years, whatever that guy is.

If there's like an Asian version, plays young Gabriel.

And then we get that story all the way through and I would direct it.

That'd be, that'd be good.

I would, I would make one of those.

Yeah.

All right.

What's it called?

I'll get back to you.

Okay.

What is the best Shalame film?

Dude, um, I didn't love Marty Supreme.

I thought it was okay.

Um, that ping-pong movie.

I don't know if you guys still got a one.

I saw it.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

There's a lot, but I don't think it's their best movie.

I think Uncut Gems is a lot better with that of Sandler.

The Shalame movie, um, I would say bones and all.

Have you guys heard of that one?

It's like, um, they're like, it's like, they're like cannibals.

They're like vampires kind of, but they're like hiding amongst society.

And like, it's like a metaphor for like love.

And like, I don't know, it's, it's weird.

It's really, really good directed by, um, the Italian director,

Aluka, who directed Call Me By Your Name similar to Shalamey film.

But bones and all is really, really good.

I don't know if you guys, it's Timothy Shalamey.

Taylor Russell.

It's really good.

Kind of.

Do you, uh, what do you think about like the, the potential death of, uh, theaters and

like the inverse?

So I saw this like, I saw my damon talking about, like, don't give me start.

Yeah.

I saw this damon clip where he's talking about how Netflix has influenced film production

and they want you to start like recapping the plot, like a bunch of times throughout

the, um, throughout the dialogue because people get distracted and they're watching

it at home.

And obviously they're like pushing for earlier and earlier home releases and shortening

that theatrical window.

Dude, I could, I could go for, I mean, that's like, that's my whole major.

Like, it's my, it's my, it's all like, but I, I think it's like, I can get sad about

the theater part, but it's more like, it's just a broader like, um, epidemic of people

losing their attention spans through to social media and like losing their ability to like

engage with longer narratives than seven seconds.

And so like, I don't think people are going to, like, the reason Netflix has to do that

is because people are watching the movie about on their phone at the same time.

So they look up and go, oh, what happened?

And if the movie goes, we just fought that massive battle and now we have to do this.

Then it's like, okay, like you can go back to your phone because the movie explains it

for you.

Um, I don't know.

It's, uh, I, I canceled my Netflix account a couple months ago.

Like I'm boycotted.

I'm like, you know, I'll, I'll watch, I'll find my show somewhere else.

Um, but uh, dude, I could, I could, I could go on, but it's sad, but the, the best thing

I can do myself is go to the movie theater.

So there's a little indie theater down the street on college, I have, uh, Elmwood Theater

and I try to go there like once a week, just go see whatever's playing, um, need to go

back, just saw hamnet recently, really good movie, really good movie.

Okay.

Now for, does a, does a film person, uh, have like a movie experience to, so like, I like

one of the movies because I love popcorn and that's like an indulgence of, I, it's an

experience thing.

I want to get the popcorn to.

But is that like, are you not really like a film person if you enjoy popcorn at the movies?

No, you totally are.

Everyone has their little like rituals, you know, like, uh, what are you doing?

Um, well, that street that my little theaters on, there's like a, across the street is

a little sushi restaurant that's pretty cheap and pretty good.

So like, I go get a sushi rule going, I don't, I don't eat during movies, but like, you

know, it's a little, I can make a little night for myself.

Hmm.

Well, that's cute.

And it's a solo experience.

Yeah, I go by myself.

A good amount.

Hmm.

If not, I like it.

Yeah.

Well, it's, it's hard to coordinate, you know, be like, Hey, you want to go see this?

Well, I can, I can just look with the playing and just go whatever I want.

So, yeah.

Hey, weren't you in Australia recently?

I was.

Yeah.

What was going on there?

Well, we, we, uh, we, uh, we as in Cal normally go to the OTC, Colorado Springs for

altitude training.

And this is my first year as a pro.

So I wanted to not go there, um, because I hate it anywhere else, because I hate it.

And it's, uh, no, I'm kidding.

Um, it, uh, I don't know.

It was just an opportunity.

I was thinking of maybe going, I don't know, to Switzerland or to Poland.

I was talking with David March.

He likes the idea of going and experiencing new things.

Um, and then I'm good friends with the Riley sisters who swim on Cal, Eloise and Bella.

And they live in Australia and they have a coach in their neighborhood.

This open water coach who's like this legendary guy.

And so I was like, can I go and stay here as his house and swim and I did it.

It was, it was life changing.

It was so, so much fun.

Just two weeks of, and it's one in the morning.

And go to the beach all day.

It was, it was great.

Oh, yeah.

That's so cool.

What do you, what do you think you know about yourself now, uh, as a, as a pro?

I mean, you talked about the mental side and having a different relationship with, um,

the way that you show up behind the blocks and, and swimming free.

And, um, what about like training wise?

I mean, are you able to like be pretty independent and outspoken with what your needs are as well?

Or, or do you kind of, you know, people that obviously so many people talk

about like Dave and having a master plan and, uh, being a serial planner.

So what's kind of like the dynamic with, with you and the control that you have over

your program versus being kind of like hands off.

Hey, coach has got the plan.

Well, I'm not part of Dave's master plan anymore.

And that's the thing like the pros, it's up to you whether you want to come to practice.

So it's kind of to you what, what you want to do with your career.

And like, it's not like Dave is just like, forget you.

But, um, something I've really worked on this year.

And I think it's the reason I'm, I mean, I'm in really good shape right now.

I'm really happy with where I'm at.

And I think I'm going to race really well this summer.

And part of the reason I feel so confident in that is that I've talked with Noah and Dave a little bit.

But mainly Noah, because I'm his, he's my primary coach.

Just about like, uh, doing the best thing like for me, that's going to make me go fast.

And that's not something you get to do as a college summer, um, like to, to the fullest.

Like, uh, I mean, I, I had just one backstroke at ACC season and sees for points, you know,

and so like, I'm substituting out a tuna free practice for a, to back practice.

And yeah, it's good for me to do other stuff.

But like at the end of the day, when am I going to 200 meter fly, two meter free, um,

those are the things that I want to train and work out.

So everything should be pointing towards that or moving towards that.

So I've really like gotten to do that for the first time.

Like my Monday mornings are like a long, long course,

loosen and like, I go in and I just go super slow the whole time.

And like, uh, when I was on the Cal team, uh, I think there were,

there's a little more baggage that comes with your behavior practice and your performance at practice.

And there's a little more of like expectations that need to be upheld.

And so like, I was just kind of a go, go fast all the time guy, um, and like,

I would bounce around groups a lot.

And like, now it's like, if this isn't benefiting my tuna free and tuna fly,

then let's focus on something else.

So I'll go easy on a Monday morning, but then Monday night is 500 free group.

That's going to help my two free.

So let's go really hard on that Tuesday morning is a loosen.

I can just chill hang out Tuesday afternoon.

We do long course freestyle 50s, 200 pace.

Like, that's my thing.

All right.

Like, let's nap really long.

Like I used to have class in between practice.

It's like, I can go home, nap and have the best 200 meter free practice of the,

you know, of, of the week, like for myself.

And I used to not be able to do that.

So it's, there's definitely, if anything, increased dialogue between me and my coaches,

because like, I want them to know what I'm doing.

And for what reason?

And I also want them to like keep me accountable to those goals.

Like, no one knows, I don't care about anything, but the tuna meter free and tuna meter

fly. Like he knows that that's what I'm doing.

So he's not going to harp on me for not going fast on a breaststroke set.

It's like, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I don't, well, I don't think he'd be alone.

And being okay with not going fast on a breaststroke set.

But I will say we've been doing this new pro schedule.

So usually we double Monday, Wednesday, Friday, single Tuesday, Thursday,

the morning and Saturday morning, as pros, which is the, there's maybe six of us.

It's like me, Leia Polonski, who's my training partner, Lucas and Dan go distance

and Jack and Brooks go sprint.

Those are our pros.

It's pretty fun.

There's six of us.

And we Tuesday, Thursday, we come in and do long course in the afternoons at speaker.

And it's just us six and no end Dave.

It's like so much fun.

And we just do, like I said, like 50s, long course, 200 pace.

Like I didn't, we didn't have a practice dedicated to that anymore.

And then I have like Wednesday, Friday afternoon off.

So like we do, we do really hard stuff.

It's like two doubles in the, in a row at the beginning of the week.

And then a hard double Thursday.

Usually Thursday is my tuna butterfly set.

But last week we had like the hardest butterfly set I've ever done in my life.

I was grumpy.

We did this hard butterfly set.

Then Noah's like, I put a band on.

We're doing some backstroke pull.

That I'm even more grumpy.

And then he's like 100 easy.

He's like, this is our finisher for the day.

Six 100s breaststroke.

Like I'm there with lay it.

Lay is like a world class.

I am right.

So of course, this is like for her and Noah's like, all right, game and lay out.

You guys are doing this and it's got a little grin on the space.

And I was like, what are we doing?

Lay is like six to 100s breaststroke.

Oh my god.

So there's, that's where maybe there's a little personal stake for me in bringing that up.

But, but you still do that though.

Like even though you're like, Hey, it doesn't relate to the tuna fire.

Tuna free.

You still do it.

Yeah, well, like I killed myself on the butterfly set.

So I was happy to like, you know,

you know, but then I mean, I'm not going to say no to the coach.

And so like I did six 100s long course breaststroke.

I went 122 in the last one.

So I was all I was all in it.

That's faster than I could do.

It's straight up one I'm done with that.

All right, man, we'll end it with some rapid fire questions.

All right, hit me.

What's the hardest race in swimming?

Uh, 200 backstroke long course or 400 am long course Olympic gold or world record?

Olympic gold.

What's your favorite Olympic winter sport to watch?

I really like a short track.

A hard track.

Yeah, there you go.

What's the most annoying thing a teammate or coach can do?

Leave early.

You have a dream sponsor?

Yes, Pop Tarts.

Well, flavor.

Uh, Bruncher, did you watch the Pop Tarts college football bowl game?

No, I did not.

You should get a mascot costume and be that for Halloween next year, the Pop Tart.

I will. Bruncher.

What's you mentioned, the set recently was maybe the hardest one you've ever done.

Is this the one because I was going to ask you what's the hardest set you've ever done?

Oh, no.

In Australia, I did 100 100s.

Long course.

Long course.

I did 100 100s with the suit on granted, but the first 30 were on 110 and the last 70 were on 120.

Long course, not for me.

I've only done a short course and that was enough.

Yeah, it was the hardest thing I've ever done.

I like couldn't walk and couldn't see afterward.

Like my eyes were like, I couldn't even see.

Yeah, it was good.

Thanks.

Yes, fun.

Are you still going like eight kicks off every wall too?

No, no, I was doing like one.

That's the exception.

That's the exception rule.

I'm making rules as limits.

Triple breath in.

Yeah, one kick.

No, I was taking 10 kicks.

No, dude.

That was Bob.

The truth comes out.

What do you think?

I'm not doing.

Yeah.

All right.

In this program, how much social kick are we doing?

A good amount.

Good amount.

200 300 every day.

All right.

Nice.

We'll take 200 300 every day.

That's good stuff.

Dude, you're so, you're so natural.

Thanks for, thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your history.

It's good to reconnect with you, man.

Yeah.

Fun to see what you've been doing and.

We're big fans, rooting for you.

It's fun to watch you swim fast.

That's one of the coolest things about like being removed

from the sport of swimming as an elite athlete.

It's like, I still love watching.

And we, we love watching fast swimming.

And so you're one of those athletes that we, we watch you swim.

It's just like a true joy to watch you swim.

But it's awesome.

It's like a beautiful work of art.

It's cool.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

I feel like a friend of the pod, man.

You're welcome back anytime.

Thanks for spending some time with us.

Sounds good.

Thanks.

All right.

That's Gabriel Jet.

That's it for this episode of Social Kick.

We'll see you guys next time.

See you.