Heat Training for Ultrarunning: How to Heat Train Correctly

Welcome to the Everyday Ultra Podcast, a show designed to help you level up your training,

crush your races, and ultimately become a veteran endurance athlete every single day.

Whether you're an endurance athlete as a hobby or someone who wants to be the best in

the sport, this is the show for you.

I'm your host, Joe Corseon, and thank you so much for listening.

Now, let's get into it.

Before we dive into the episode, I need to talk about one thing that's all on our minds,

which is shoes.

Right?

The shoes that you pick for ultra-marathons are super important, and I've ran in nearly

every brand that produces a shoe for trail running out there, and let me tell you this,

I've recently tried a type of shoe that is the best shoe for ultra-marathons that I've

ever worn specifically because this company designed shoes for ultra-marathons, while

most companies design shoes for shorter races, or distances that don't cover up to that

100 mile or 200 mile distance that can really, really be comfortable, resilient, durable,

and one that fits the needs of ultra-marathons, and this company is Mount to Coast.

Mount to Coast makes shoes specifically for ultra-runners on road, trail, or even hybrid

shoes that work good on the road and the trail at the same time.

My favorite shoe of all time is the Mount to Coast H1, which is absolutely amazing on

trails that are runnable for very long distances, and you can even run with it on the road

too, and it has some of the best foam and the most comfortable foam that I've ever

ran into.

I also love their T1s on the trail, which are great for technical trails, rocky trails, trails

where you need that extra grip, and the best part is it has this lacing system where you

can actually let the shoe breathe a little bit in case you get swelling later into an ultra-marathon

with the feet, which almost every ultra-runner will get in the long enough distances as well,

and don't forget there are one, their road shoe, which is absolutely responsive, comfortable,

and good for speed workouts, and also easy road cruising miles.

So, and the best part is the shoes are made to last.

Last year, Jamil Curry at his Chipotle Challenge ran 600 miles in one pair of Mount to Coast

H1s, and it kept them cruising for the win to win free burritos for a year.

And I know Kevin Goldberg ran over 200 miles in one shot with one pair at Man with 200,

so these shoes are built to last, and no one likes having to throw away shoes early.

If you want to give Mount to Coast to try, you can get 10% off your order by going to the

link in the show notes and using code Everyday Ultra for 10% off your order.

That's 10% off your order with code Everyday Ultra when you go to the link in the show notes

for Mount to Coast, give them a try, they're the best shoes that I have ever worn in my

ultra-runner career, and I will be wearing them exclusively at all my races this year, so

I'm excited to dive into that.

So without further ado, let's get in the episode and enjoy those Mount to Coast shoes.

Live.

Awesome.

Good to see y'all here for the March 16th edition of the Everyday Ultra Group Coaching

Call.

I hope you're all having a fantastic week.

Hope you all had an amazing weekend, and you're getting ready for a great coaching

call tonight.

A very, very good one.

All about heat training.

How to do heat training the right way.

How to make sure that you are going to be well adapted for the heat.

If you're racing a hot race, should you be doing year-round heat training?

What kind of races should you be doing heat training for?

There's a lot of questions that we will be answering on here, too.

And I think this is a very important topic, because heat training is one of those things

where we're actually getting a lot of new science, a lot of new protocols, a lot of good

studies that are showing the benefits, the applications, the styles, like the things

that we should be thinking about and not thinking about when doing heat training.

So this is still like very a new kind of area for us in ultra-running, which is just super,

super exciting.

I think because there's so much information out, and because there's a lot of new stuff

around, I want to do this coaching call tonight to talk about the protocols that I think

are going to be the most effective for the everyday ultra-runner, and I might say everyday

ultra-runner.

I mean, like 99% of people, because, you know, yes, like the more that you train, and if

you want to be like at the highest level of sport, there's different applications and protocols.

But I think, you know, anytime when it comes to your training stimulus, right, no matter

what it is.

It's heat training, whether it's speed work, whether it's, you know, blood restriction,

applications, whatever that might be, right.

You always, always, always want to think about two different things.

And the first thing is you always want to think about obviously the benefit that you get

from it.

Is there a benefit?

Now, I like to drive that a little further, say like, is there a benefit that is backed

by science and research, right?

Because there's a lot of things out there that have training, you know, claims and things

of what they can do for your fitness, but there is very little evidence, there's very

little science, there's very little research studies done on whether or not those things

are effective.

And so anytime you look at training stimulus here at every ultra, we always think about

like, what is the science say?

And so that's always the first thing that you've got to think about when you are looking

to do a new stimulus.

But there's another thing that you have to think about, which is the cost of that stimulus.

Every single stimulus has a cost to it, even training, right, like speed work does have

a cost.

The cost of speed work is that you do get a little bit more fatigued, your muscles get

a little bit more beat up.

You're using muscles that you don't normally use as much on the easy running, right?

You might have to run your recovery runs, you know, a little bit easier to recover, right?

There's a cost for that.

There's a cost for the long run, usually the cost for the long run is that, you know,

you usually have to take the next day, assuming you're not doing a back to back long run,

a little bit easier recovery, right?

So every single stimulus has a cost to it.

And you always got to think about, okay, is the benefit I'm getting worth the cost that

I'm putting into this?

And the reason why I'm bringing this up with heat training is because heat training is

something that can have massive benefits, but it also has a massive cost to it as well.

And there's a way that, you know, we do it here at Everday Ultra and what we suggest

to do for, you know, again, 99% of the athletes that we coach and I'll explain where that one

percent maybe differs is for 99% of the athletes, like the protocol that we're going to tell

you today is one that is going to give you the maximum amount of benefits for the lowest

amount of costs that you can get relative to what you could be doing with heat training.

And this is a protocol that, you know, every single athlete that I personally coach,

we put this on this protocol.

And I always think about, you know, with hobbling 100 a couple of years ago is 100 degrees.

I coach 12 athletes personally to do it.

And with those 12 athletes, we had no issues with the heat out there due to this protocol.

So even in a race that had extreme heat, no shade, you know, we were able to have athletes

out there with a really, really good protocol.

This is a protocol that I've used for all my hot races and very, very rarely with the

exception of one race where I didn't actually heat train for and I'll tell you why in

the later in this later in this episode, but all that being said, I've never felt extremely

hot in a race.

Now granted, I live in Phoenix.

So I have a little bit of a bias, but this is the protocol do and this is what we're

going to share on here too.

Let's just talk about why he training is important in the first place.

Let's just start there.

Why is he training important?

Well, when you are doing really hot races, you know, not only is it uncomfortable to run

in really hot races, but it can significantly diminish performance with super crazy.

The first time I ever heard this, like a totally blew my mind, but that, you know, they

did studies on what are the temperatures that when you are running in them, start to

have a negative performance ding, essentially, when you're out there and running.

Like what temperatures does heat start to negatively impact your running performance?

And what was crazy is that what the study showed was that 45 degrees Fahrenheit, and for

all of my Celsius people out there, I'm going to be converting it over here to you because

I know we have, we've expanded to have people not in the States.

So that would be seven degrees Celsius.

So 45 degrees Fahrenheit, seven degrees Celsius.

Anything above that is going to have negative impacts on your running performance based

on heat.

So think about that for a second, 45 degrees Fahrenheit, seven degrees Celsius.

That's not that warm, right?

Like for me, that's actually long sleeve weather, but everything after that is going to start

to have negative impacts on your running due to the heat.

And think about that, right?

So if you think about some hot races, like a hobbling 100, hobbling 100 will average

about 80 degrees Fahrenheit or 26 degrees Celsius.

Even if you're in a race that has 70 degrees or 65 degrees Fahrenheit, that is going to

have a significant performance impact.

And the reason for this is because heat, what it does is it raises your body temperature.

And when you have your body temperature raised, you end up sweating more, you spell more

fluids.

So you're sweating a lot more.

And when you're running a lot more and dehydration is such a big factor when it comes to performance,

you get dehydrated a lot easier.

Plus, your body is actually working to keep your body system and your body temperature

is cooler, which is a very high priority item for your body.

And so because of that, GI issues are much more likely because, you know, when it comes

to digestion, that is a low priority thing for your body to have.

So there's more, likeliness of digestive issues or GI issues when you're out there running.

And there's more chance for cramping because you have more muscular, or sorry, more electrolyte

and balances out there, likely due to the increase of sweat that you're putting out.

And so there's a tons of different things that comes into the heat.

And that's why heat is such a really, really tough thing to do with, right?

I always think about hobbling 100 to go back to that example.

It is a relatively easy course and only has about 6,000 feet of climbing over the course

of a hundred miles, which is like very little when you think about it.

Like, and for context, let's think about led bill 100, led bill 100 has 15,000, Western

states 100 is 18,000 feet of climbing.

So hobbling has only 6,000, which is very, very runnable, but it actually has a very

high DNF rate.

And the reason why it has a high DNF rate is because, yes, you guessed it, the heat and

the temperature.

So it can really, really, really jing your performance.

And so the reason why we want to do heat training is because we want to be able to protect

our fitness, protect our performance.

And the more that we are heat trained going into a race, the more we're able to express

our full potential because our body, what we're doing in a heat training protocol, is we

are teaching it to cool itself down more efficiently.

We are teaching it to be able to, you know, manage hydration levels a lot better.

We're teaching the gut to be able to digest a lot more efficiently, like basically what

we're trying to tell it to do in the heat is to be less resistant to the negative impacts

that come from the hotter temperatures out there.

So that's why heat training is so important, especially in hotter races.

Now, like I said before, there's a lot of things with heat training that we'll dive

into that are very important to dissect in here because there are some ways that you can

actually mess up heat training.

There is such a thing as too much heat training, just like there's such a thing as, I know

it doesn't seem like it, but there is such a thing as too much running where you can

get injured.

There's such a thing as too much heat training where you're going to be doing it to the

point where you're going to get diminishing returns or either risk injury or burnout or

even just overtraining.

So we want to think about all those things when it comes to heat training and what is the

right protocol to do with it.

So now, I will say this, like from a heat training protocol perspective, let's just think

about what kind of races that you want to be, if you're doing a specific race and your

question is, should I be heat training for this, what should I be looking for to determine

whether or not I should heat train again, going back to the beginning of this conversation,

we talked about the training stimulus, what's the benefit and what is the cost of it.

And what we know from that and going from the, the stat before we mentioned that anything

over 45 degrees Fahrenheit is going to be a negative impact, but usually where more severe

impact starts to come into play such as higher sweat loss, more thermo regulation issues,

like all those things, start to tend to happen around like mile, more around temperature levels

of 65 to 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

So because of that, I tend to say that usually a race that is over 65 degrees Fahrenheit

or over, and for my Celsius friends out there too, I'm just converting that on here, that

would be about 18 degrees Celsius.

So 65 degrees Fahrenheit or 18 degrees Celsius, anything over that, if your race is going

to be in those conditions, that is where I would look for heat training.

When I'm coaching athletes personally, what I do is I look at the temperature of their

race, and that's how I determine whether or not they do heat training.

And so if it's anything under that, you don't need to, right?

But even if it's like 64, 63, that's kind of like on the line.

And even 65, I would say is a little bit more conservative on how like I would kind of

approach it.

Like usually 70 degrees is kind of like the number where you really, you know, wants to

start to think about it a lot more, but that is a pretty cut and dry way to do.

Now again, if it's on 63 degrees and you know, you struggle with the heat in the past,

I would just do it.

If you're 63 degrees and you decide that, hey, like I do pretty well in the heat and

or you fall under the category of what we're going to talk about in here too of determining

whether if heat training is actually too much, then we're risk actually outweighs

the reward, you know, you can go ahead and skip it.

But again, anything I would say over 70 degrees, that's where I would no doubt do it for sure.

Even races that are at higher altitude at 65 degrees, if you don't have a lot of

tree coverage, like that is something I would also consider too, because the sun is a

factor as well too.

So that's how to determine whether or not you should do heat training for a race too.

Now, what do you need to do effective heat training?

Now there's different tools that are going to be good for heat training, different tools

and I'm going to rank them in order of what are going to be the most impactful for you

and what are going to be the ones that are less impactful and less preferred, right?

And the way that I'm thinking about this too is not just necessarily what's the most

effective in terms of getting the heat stimulus, but what is the best in terms of the overall

recovery cost that you're putting into it?

Again, when we think about what's going to be the most beneficial, it's not going to

be what's going to give us the biggest stimulus.

It's going to be what is going to give us the biggest bang for a buck in terms of costs

that we're getting for that thing in return that we're getting for that benefit, right?

So all I being said, number one, the most important, the most highest priority thing, like

if someone was saying like, hey, I could do anything for heat training, I can use any

tool.

This is always the number one preferred for me.

And that would be a dry sauna.

Now this is different than a steam room.

This is a dry sauna.

So this is your traditional wood sauna that has either the rocks or anything in there,

but a dry sauna, not a steam room.

The dry sauna is usually the best for several different reasons.

Number one is that the dry sauna is something where it's not in active form of heat training,

which we'll talk about right now real quick just to kind of define that.

So active heat training is when you're doing heat training while you are running.

So that's where you see the videos of people in a heat suit or running outside in a hundred

degree weather.

Now that can be useful and that can be something that you can use, but we'll talk about that

in a second.

And passive heat training is when you are doing the heat stimulus, but not in conjunction

with the activity.

So think about it.

I mean, I wouldn't advise running in a sauna, but when you're doing a sauna for heat

training protocols, you are, it's a passive heat training stimulus because you are

generally sitting in the sauna.

And so just to kind of go on this to the first few things that I'm going to mention are

going to be more passive modalities.

And the reason for that, again, active can be very, very impactful and actually there are

signs that does show that it does stress the body out more when it comes to a heat training

stimulus.

However, active is also one of the biggest things in recovery.

So even though active, active heat training is one of those things where you're getting

a big, big stimulus for it, the cost of it is very high.

And so with passive heat training, even though the stimulus that you're getting might be

a little less impactful, the cost of the recovery is actually a lot lower.

And so you get your biggest bang for your buck.

And so with the dry sauna, I would always place that as number one.

And again, for several different reasons, number one, the biggest thing with the dry sauna

is it allows your body to actually go through like the full kind of cooling mechanisms.

So the reason why it's more preferred than a steam room is because with the steam room,

your body necessarily doesn't like learn how to cool itself down with sweat.

And I'll explain why that's important in a second.

But like think about when you're in a humid environment, when you're in a humid environment,

your clothes are what?

Soaking wet.

They're soaking wet to the bone the entire time.

It's because your body's not evaporating that sweat.

Now in a dry sauna, your body is evaporating that sweat.

And so when you're evaporating that sweat, like what we're trying to do is teaching our

body to be efficient at using water on it to go ahead and cool itself down,

basically thermo-regulating itself a lot more.

So that's why I always say like basically we're teaching the body to be able to regulate

itself a lot better than using like a steam room or any like form of humidity out there.

And that's like one of the biggest things that I like to say on that too.

Just from a standpoint of like being able to teach your body to thermo-regulate.

So that's why dry sauna is usually better for that too.

Now a steam room can work and that's where I would put it as number two.

I would put the steam room as number two.

But because it has a little less factors when it comes to the thermo-regulation standpoint

on that temperature kind of area, that's why I like to dry one better.

But if you only have a steam room, that is totally okay too.

Also steam room does have a little bit more cost, right?

Because it has a little bit more cost, that's because again the body is not evaporating

the sweat.

So therefore like your body is actually getting a little bit more deeper in the hole.

So all that being said, you're in a position where you do have a little bit more cost

in a steam room as well too.

Here's another thing too.

Evidence-based heat acclimation reviews specifically say sauna exposure, dry sauna exposure

with three weeks post exercise which we'll talk about in a second.

That is going to be better than doing a steam room just from a more effective standpoint

as well too.

So it's backed by the studies and stuff too.

Steam room is still effective but it does have a little bit more cost.

It doesn't teach your body to regulate itself as much, but it can still work for sure.

So that's number two.

Number three, and I would loop these both into the same category, but I would say one

would be a little bit more superior than others.

The third one is going to be hot tub or hot bath.

And so literally you can get into a hot tub where you can get into a hot bath and basically

just crank up the temperatures and rock and roll in with it too.

Now the reason why these ones aren't as effective is for this one, yes you are sweating, but

because you're submerging underwater, this sweat kind of doesn't evaporate down there,

it doesn't really do that thing.

So it's kind of similar to the steam room in the fact where your body's self-regulation

doesn't get taught as effectively in there too.

So that's why steam room is a little bit lower.

Also with the steam room, or sorry not the steam room, this hot tub hot bath, similar

to the steam room that is, sorry to miss up the words there.

But the hot tub and hot bath is also a little bit lower because it's harder to raise your

body temperature in the hot tub and the hot bath as opposed to a sauna or a steam

room.

And also you just need that hot tub to be really, really hot.

Most hot tubs, if you don't own one, which I know most people don't, I don't own one,

I know most people don't, we don't usually control the temperature with them because they

are either using it as a gym or a spa.

And when it comes to heat training in general, we'll talk about this.

You need to make sure that you are like uncomfortable.

And sometimes with hot tubs, if you don't have control of it, it might just be at a comfortable

temperature where you're actually not getting this stimulus.

Like you, the hotter, I shouldn't say, well, yeah, I mean, it's true, the hotter that

it is, the better.

But again, you got to weigh out the risk of reward, but we'll talk about like what hot

actually means from an effective standpoint later in this episode.

But from all that being said, it's a little harder to control the temperatures on a hot

tub if you don't own it.

Now hot bath can be very nice, but sometimes people's water doesn't get, you know, as hot

and it's harder to control that variable as opposed to like a sauna or a steam room,

which also does better at trapping heat.

Same with a hot bath too.

And again, like it's kind of hard to keep that hot water hot unless like you have jets

currently running or anything and such.

So still effective, but it's a little bit harder to control the variables, which is why

it's a little bit lower on the list on this as well too.

So those are my three top three for passive, which would be preferred.

Like if you're going to do a perfor passive overactive, and that would be steam room number

one dry, or sorry, dry sauna number one, sorry, geez, I'm getting

everything mixed up here, the steam room sauna, anything.

So let me back up dry sauna number one steam room number two, three hot tub or hot bath.

Now a question that I get asked a lot is what about infrared saunas?

I would actually put infrared saunas in between steam room and in between dry sauna.

The reason why I don't put it up like in the same category as dry sauna is because the

infrared saunas are a little bit harder to heat up.

And again, you need to make sure that you are a little bit more uncomfortable in these,

you know, hot protocol situations.

And so that's why I put that one in the middle, but that one I would say if you were to

do steam room or infrared, I'd probably go with infrared.

So that would be my passive protocols.

So if you have access to any one of those things, you are in a good spot for heat training.

Now what if you're listening to this and you're like, hey, Joe, I don't have access to

a sauna, I don't have access to a steam room, I don't even have access to a hot bath because

I have a stand up shower in my home.

That is totally okay.

No worries.

That's where active heat training comes in.

Now again, active heat training is when you are getting on that heat suit, putting the

layers on and running outside or running on a treadmill.

It doesn't have to be outside.

You can do it in a treadmill.

Some people, like I know Anthony Castales, who he recently got third place at Black

Canyon.

I believe it was third place.

He was on the podium or maybe second place.

He was, he was up there.

But several years ago when he did run Black Canyon and he won the race, he actually did

a heat protocol where he would put his treadmill in the garage and he would crank the heater

up in his garage and run on there.

So it doesn't have to be outside, but you want to be hot.

And so in general, the protocol for this is very simple, it's layer up and go run and

make sure that you are getting the heat generating when you are when it's hot.

Now you can do this in several different factors.

You can like go to a place like Phoenix, like I know some athletes do come out to Phoenix

and they'll run outside of the heat because it's 100 degrees outside.

You could do that and you definitely shouldn't layer up if it's 100 degrees outside because

it's going to be pretty hot.

So in general, my protocol, this is like if it's 80 degrees or higher outside Fahrenheit

and there's no wind, you don't have to layer up.

You can just run outside and just go for it and just get it rocking rolling and you

will likely get that heat benefits when you're running out there too.

Now if it's 80 and windy, 80 and 90 windy, you might want to bring just some layers just

in case you don't feel hot.

And if it's 90 above, no matter what it is and by the way, that's real fuel that includes

humidity as well too.

So I would go by real fuel, not temperature, just because the real fuel is going to be

like what the body is actually going to respond to.

That's like why when you go to a humid part, like even though if it's 60 degrees, you might

be sweating a lot more because the humidity adds to the real feel of the heat.

But if it's 90 degrees and above, even if it's windy outside, you don't need to layer

up or even bring layers out there too.

So that would be the protocol and if it's anything less than 90 degrees, I would say usually

you're layering up.

Now the colder it is out there, the more you want to layer up, right?

I know some people in the Midwest still here in March have some very cold temperatures.

And so if you're training for race, that's in a couple weeks and it's super hot, that's

where you want to layer up and make sure that you are feeling hot for that for sure.

Big disclaimer on this, I will say that when you were doing this, try to avoid doing

these heat sessions in more high intensity parts.

So if you're doing a speed workout, I would not do heat training for a speed workout.

I would not do heat training for a very long run either.

And we'll talk about like when to exactly put this in.

But all that being said, I'm usually like an easy run with heat protocol.

This is going to be your active heat training strategy.

That's what I would do.

So if you don't have access to any of the passive tools that I mentioned, that's where you

can do active heat training.

Now, you've got to be very careful with active heat training and the reason why I, again,

go for passive overactive is because active has a very high cost because there's a lot

of recovery that comes into when you're running heat.

Think about, think about here, like when you all run on the summer, right, or in a very,

very hot environment, like probably takes you a little bit more time to recover, right?

Because it's harder on the system and everything is such too.

Plus, like the reason why passive tends to work better than active in terms of a cost benefit

of like heat training is because with passive, you are not combining it with the stressor

of running.

And so like, like again, like if you combine stressors, like in a condensed period,

you're going to get more impact.

And more load on the body.

So like what I mean by that is like if you separate the heat and the running,

you're spreading the stimulus, the stimulus out a little bit more.

So you're not getting as much fatigue.

But if you combine them all in one, then things just become a little bit harder.

And there's a higher cost of recovery, right?

So all that being said, that's why I prefer passive overactive.

But that said, you can do active where I was going on this whole point where I,

before I double clicked into a rabbit hole, is that if you are doing active heat training,

you just might want to modify your volume a little bit more, right?

So if I have an athlete who's doing active heat training because that they don't have

access to the sauna, hot tub, anything, I'm actually going to give them a lot less volume

than I would for someone doing passive heat training.

Just from the standpoint of I know that they're going to have a higher cost of recovery.

So those are the two things that you need or the two kind of types of heat training.

And basically, if you have all any of those things, you're in a good spot to do

heat training.

And if you don't have access to any of those things, I would get access to any of those things.

Now, by the way, I also got a question, should I be getting a sauna suit?

Should I be getting like a heat suit, right?

They sell specific heat suits.

You don't need to.

I've done the Rocky Balboa classic thing where I just like load up a bunch of sweats

and I just go out there and run.

Like so, you know, if you can just layer up and get there and I'll kind of give the criteria

of like what is hot and like how you know it's actually working.

But yeah, you don't need to buy a, you can buy one if you want to.

I just don't think you need to.

I think they're a little expensive.

I think a lot of it's a lot of marketing.

And so you don't necessarily need to do it, but if you want to, you can go ahead and get it.

But I'd say the old, the old sweats outside is usually the best trick and just

layering up with normal clothes.

All right, I know I've been talking for a lot here.

So I'll pause here.

If there's any questions, any questions, feel free to put them in the chat, feel

free to ask if there's any questions so far about anything we covered.

And by the way, what's coming up is we're going to cover how hot you need to be

when you're heat training, how do you know it's effective, what the protocol,

what time of year, all that stuff, that stuff's coming.

But anything, any questions on like the protocols that we discussed,

like the benefits of heat training, anything is such before we continue rocking

and rolling here.

Yeah, quick, quick question.

Is there any, any difference of when you do the sauna?

Is it like better to do it after a run or better to space them out more?

Any kind of thoughts there?

I know you're saying kind of separate, active and passive, but it doesn't matter.

Yeah, it's a great question.

So when it comes to separating them, like kind of similar to what I mentioned

before with like when we look at active heat training, the reason why that's

not preferred is because it compounds the stimulus on one.

So what we try to do is separate it.

But the most ideal way to do this, and this is like by studies and everything

I choose.

So this is like they do research to see what the most ideal protocol was this.

And the most ideal protocol with anything passive.

We're talking about passive for now.

So whether it's sauna, steam room, hot tub, hot bath, the most ideal protocol

is you do your run and then right after the run, you go directly into the

sauna steam room or hot tub and the closer that you can get into it, the better.

And the reason for that is several different reasons.

Number one is you're pre warmed already from the run.

So you're already sweating, you're already like exerting energy.

And so it's easier for your body to raise up to the level where heat training

is effective, which we'll talk about what that is.

And so therefore you don't need to spend as much time in said heat, you know,

whatever, whatever torture device you're using for the heat stimulus, right?

You don't need to spend as much time in there.

So therefore you have less cost of recovery.

So it's like the most ideal and then you're not combining it with the run.

Now usually in terms of numbers, they say within 30 minutes post run tends to be ideal.

So if you do it like right after five minutes versus like 25 minutes, you're totally fine.

But once you start to get over 30 minutes, it's not like it doesn't become

effective, but you just might need to stay in the sauna a little bit longer.

So like I understand how like some people they're like, Oh, I need to go to the gym and I need to run

before work. So I can't go right after that's fine.

You can do it later in the day, but you just need to probably a lot more time for your

body to hit the level of what's going to start to be effective heat training.

And there might need to be a little bit more recovery into the consideration

because you're in said heat, you know, protocol a little bit longer itself.

So in summary, the more I, the more close you are post run to doing that

passive heat tool, the better within 30 minutes is perfect and ideal.

And again, 25 versus five, not going to matter as much.

But if you start to get over 30 minutes, it's not like it's going to totally damp around it.

After 30 minutes, I would say it doesn't really matter of like if you do it like in two

hours versus like eight hours. At that point, too, I actually probably say like maybe spreading

it out a little bit more might be ideal just because you get a little bit more recovery.

That would be the protocol. I was just in terms of time.

Is that how to answer your question?

So I mean, yeah, totally thanks.

Yeah, no problem. Great question. Yeah, great, great question.

So and again, like I also say like, you know, don't stress it.

Like you can't get in the sauna or like the hot tub like right after the run,

it's okay. You just got a plan ahead plan accordingly.

And you know, maybe just adjust the volume a little bit too.

So that would be the in terms of like the stimulus of when you do it,

which would be the best.

Any other quick questions before we move on here in terms of like the heat

protocols and everything as such.

Would sitting in your car with it off on a hot day work?

Yes, it would.

And that's actually the Jim Womsey method.

There's a there's a video out there of Jim where he would do his runs.

And I actually did this for what did I do this for?

There was one run where I did it because I literally just saw Jim Womsey do it.

And I was like, and I didn't have access to a sauna that day.

And I was like, this is a great idea where he would like run.

And then he would like drive like it'd be it he would use living Phoenix.

So it'd be like a hot day and 90 degrees.

You keep like the heat rolling and everything.

You can do that for sure.

That is totally okay.

So just be careful in the car and stay hydrated and everything is such too.

But yeah, that's the thing too.

Like that you can totally do it.

The reason why I don't put it out there is because

sometimes people need a drive and we just want to make sure people aren't like

drive when they're when they're doing too.

But you can 100% do that as a methodology as well.

And Joe, go ahead.

Yes.

Hey, this has been so real quick as far as how many times a week

if you're just doing it one time a week, does that seem like enough stimulus?

It's a good question.

So in short, the answer is actually no.

Uh, the answer is no.

If you do one day of heat training a week,

it's going to actually lead to pretty much zero stimulus at all.

And so that's always something like that's a very big misnomer.

I see with like heat training.

And again, like it would make sense, right?

Because it's like if you do a run,

you're going to get a stimulus from it too.

But the way that heat adaptation works is that there's actually a very specific kind of protocol

that you need to do in order to make sure that the heat is there.

Now, there is a point where you can get to where doing one session can maintain your adaptations.

But you're not going to get any meaningful benefit from just doing one session a week.

Um, and we'll kind of go through the time on there too.

So like, for example, uh, like there was a 50 mile race this past week, right?

And, um, uh, here in Phoenix, and it was 100 degrees, like, or like 90 degrees.

Very hot this week.

Like that's a very unseasonally hot.

Usually this race is about like 50 degrees, 60 degrees or so.

And I had a text from a friend, they were like, oh my gosh,

it's going to be 100 degrees.

Like, should I sit in a sauna and like, you know, uh,

just get like one or two days of heat training.

And I'm like, no, because it's not at that point.

It's not even going to matter.

Um, so all that we said from that standpoint, um,

we'll go through the protocol.

But yeah, the one one time a week is not going to do anything.

And there's actually this very specific protocol that's going to help with some of the

cool.

These are great questions.

Okay, I think we'll go into the segue in terms of like,

how do you know the heat trains working or like,

what are like the metrics and success you're going to be looking for to make sure that heat

session is in the bank, so to say, what the protocol is in terms of timing.

And then how do you put it all together?

Before we dive in the episode, I have to address one thing.

And that thing is most running nutrition products absolutely suck.

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First and foremost, I can tell you most running nutrition products,

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And it is so hard to continue to eat sports nutrition when your mouth is just super sticky

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Secondly, in the world of high carb fueling, it looks like you can either choose between a high

carb low sodium option or a high sodium low carb option.

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So in looking for a product that had all these three things,

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Also real quick, want to give a huge shout out to John G. Apparel.

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And let's get back in the episode with no more ads for the rest of this episode.

So let's go into like, how do we make sure that the heat is working?

So like, for example, Christina asked,

with sitting in your car with it on off on a hot day work.

And again, there could be a bunch of different protocols that I can mention here.

Like I said, instead of layering up or a heat suit,

you can run in your treadmill, you know, or run in your treadmill in a hot garage, right?

Like, or maybe you're just like in a really hot room with no AC, right?

Like the way to determine whether these things are going to work or not

is going to be two or three different things.

Two of them are going to be, you know, more from a, or sorry,

yeah, two of them are going to be more subjective in terms of just like

how you're looking at it and how you're feeling.

And one is actually a hard data metric that is really, really helpful to do.

And so you want to get to three different points

to know that your heat session is working.

The first thing, it needs to feel uncomfortable.

Like this is not a relaxing sauna session.

This is not like when you go into the spa and you get your robot

and like, you know, you're going to the spa just to relax and have a nice spa.

No, like it is supposed to be uncomfortable.

Because like what we're trying to do here is stress the body out to the point where it adopts.

That's why we train.

That's what training is.

Training is to the point where we are running or doing a workout

into the point where we're forcing the body to get stressed out.

So that it's like, oh my gosh, if I don't improve, if I don't adapt,

then Joe is going to die here.

And so that's why it gets stronger and better.

And that's why training works, right?

That's why all the time if, you know, all of you here are one-on-one athletes with us.

We always ask in the weekly check-in form is training too easy, too hard or just right.

And the reason why we ask that is because if training is too easy,

we're not actually stressing the body in a way that it's going to make the adaptations.

Now again, conversely, if it's too hard, like you don't want it to feel like

super uncomfortable or super terrible all the time because then

you just risk injury over training.

And so same thing with heat training as well.

Like there's the same protocol with that too.

But you need to make it uncomfortable in a way where you're actually forcing the body

to stimulate and basically make those adaptations.

So the first thing is it has to be uncomfortable.

Like it's not a pleasant thing.

Like heat training is not a pleasant thing.

So that's the first thing.

You need to feel uncomfortable.

The second thing and there's another feeling thing is you need to be sweating profusely.

Like if you are not sweating at all,

it's probably not hot enough.

Like you need to be sweating.

And also to sweating is a good metric to also like shouldn't say metric.

It's a good thing to see like if it is working or not.

Because here's the thing, the more heat trained you are,

the more you're going to sweat.

Because sweating, the reason why we sweat evolutionarily is humans

is because when we sweat, what happens?

Water gets on our skin.

And if you look at any of these hot races,

right, like hobbling 100 black canyon, coconut,

you see people what throwing water on themselves.

And the reason why they're doing it is because when you throw water on yourselves,

the water evaporates off your skin.

And it's the evaporation that leads to the cooling of the skin and the body temperature.

So as humans, we've developed this evolutionary response to sweat,

to basically coat our skin so that it would evaporate and we would cool down.

And so the more heat trained you are,

the actually more you're going to sweat.

Which is actually very interesting.

So when people come to me all the time,

they're like, I sweat so much on this run.

Oh my god, like I suck.

But I'm like, no, you're just really heat trained, right?

And so it's actually like a good thing.

It's a good sign.

So if you're sweating a lot, that's also a good metric.

Now, the third one is more of like a hard data point,

which I would suggest everybody, if possible,

you can use your watch for this.

Again, I'm not the biggest fan of heart rates on the watch,

because they're usually very inaccurate.

I usually wear a heart rate strap around my wrist,

or sorry, around my arm, not my wrist,

to like, there's like a strap that goes around here that I'll usually wear,

or you can wear a chest strap.

Something that's going to be a little bit more accurate.

But you want to be at double your resting heart rate.

So if you're resting heart rates about like 60,

you want to probably be around like 120.

Now, it doesn't have to be perfect on the nose,

but like if you go from 60 to 100, that's totally fine.

But you want your heart rate to be pretty elevated.

Now, if you have a culmination of all those three things

for about 15 to 20 minutes, you're in a good spot.

And that's why I like kind of mentioning to Adam's question

before about like, when is a protocol best?

And I said, closer to the run is because you can get to that point

a lot quicker once you're there post run.

If you just go into the sauna, you know, after hours and hours and hours of work

and you're cooled down from your run in the morning,

again, totally fine.

But it just might take you longer to get up to that thing.

Now, of course, you can just crack the heat up

and you're going to get to it a lot quicker,

but you just got to be careful.

So those are the three things that are going to say like

if the heat trend protocol is working.

So like Christina, with sitting in your car with that on a hot day work,

yes, it would work as long as those three things are true, right?

So always you got to think about it.

So those are the three things.

Like if you're rocking on those three things,

that means that heat session is working.

You're uncomfortable, you're sweating a ton,

and you're about double your resting heart rate,

give or take a few ups or downs, right?

Now, I also want to clear the air on some,

there, this used to be the case,

but this has recently been kind of like debunked,

is that there are some old evidence that does suggest

that not being hydrated during these sessions

can actually lead to a greater stimulus.

That has since been debunked.

So be sure that you're hydrating in these heat sessions, right?

That is a very dangerous thing, like where I've seen that out,

and you know, that was kind of the case for years,

but there's a lot of new stuff coming out that's saying

that hydration doesn't really matter in terms of like,

you know, how hot your body's going to get and everything is such.

She was especially if you're in an extreme heat environment.

So definitely just make sure to take water in with you,

take electrolytes with you, make sure you're going in well hydrated,

especially after you're coming after a run,

and just be safe.

Like that's the biggest thing.

Like if you feel yourself about to pass out,

which I have been in a sauna before,

and I felt like I was going to pass out,

I've had some athletes being like, I'm going to pass out,

don't do that.

Like get out of there.

We're not trying to hurt ourselves.

We're not trying to dig ourselves into a deep hole.

Like at that point, again, risk reward,

that is not worth the risk at that point.

So just monitor yourself, see how things are going,

and don't be, be smart.

That's the biggest thing.

Be smart out there, carry in water.

It gets too hot, get out of there, right?

Now, some other really quick things

before we go into the protocol,

because sometimes if you go into the sauna at the gym,

for some crazy reason, the sauna that I go to for my gym

is always at like 200 degrees, which is crazy.

And so that works for me all the time.

However, there is another gym that I go to sometimes,

because it's a little bit closer to a few of the trails

that I run that isn't as hot.

I think it's about like 180 degrees, so not as hot.

And so if you're in a sauna and you can't control the temperature,

like what I was just doing is bringing in sweatshirts,

bringing in layers, and then instead of just going in

without going in, usually I'll just go in in shorts,

and I know some people go into bathing suit, whatever,

like if it is not hot enough, temperature-wise,

and you can't control the temperatures,

bring in layers, because in that way,

you can heat up your body, right?

So just think about that in mind, too.

Again, hitting those three metrics,

you're in a good spot with that, for sure.

So those are the three metrics that you want to hit.

Once you've hit those, you're in a good spot

where it is working.

Okay, now people are probably asking,

well, what is the protocol?

Like what is the protocol to do?

And like I mentioned before, then I was saying,

like doing one time a week is not going to cut it.

Like that is not going to cut it all.

You need to be doing it on this specific protocol.

There's a few things that what the evidence shows us

of how heat training works.

The first thing with heat training is that it comes very quick.

And so what you need to do, all you need is about seven

to 10 days of exposure in order to get fully acclimated.

Seven's going to get you a pretty good acclimation.

It's going to give you like 80% of the benefits.

And if you do 10 days,

it's actually going to lead to pretty much

the maximum amount of benefits you can get from it.

Now, here's the kicker though.

You have to do it on consecutive days.

consecutive days.

So if you do three days and you miss one,

you got to restart the whole thing.

Sorry, I don't write biology, I don't write the science.

I wish I wasn't the case because that sucks,

but it is the case.

You have to do seven to 10 days of consecutive heat exposure

in order to get the benefits.

And again, seven is the minimum to get pretty much 80% of it.

And then 10 days is going to be the most ideal.

And so seven to 10 days, what the science also shows us

is that heat training, just like it comes quick,

it also goes away quick if you don't use it.

So after about three days, if you don't do heat exposure,

your heat exposure actually decays anywhere,

or your heat acclimation actually decays anywhere

from 25 to 50%.

And then the more days you go after that,

you can pretty much lose it within like a week.

So there is this factor of like, it comes quick,

but it also goes very quickly.

And so if we know that to be true,

and we know also that there is a big stress

when it comes to heat,

because heat is very stressful on the body.

It's one of the most stressful things that you can do.

And if we think about that,

we're like, how do we do this in a way

where A, it doesn't mess with our training,

because anytime I look at a training stimulus,

I always think about like training in the lens

of like, what's the most important things?

Like, what are the big needle movers for training?

And what are the big needle movers for training folks?

It is the training itself, the workouts, the volume,

the long runs, it's all that stuff.

And so anytime I look at any of this stuff,

which I, yes, heat training does lead to a pretty big,

pretty big performance leap when it comes to hot races

and everything too.

However, like because heat is a huge cost,

it can take away from the benefit of your training, right?

Because like if you're doing heat training

in the middle of a training block,

and it ruins the quality of your workouts,

or you know, you're going to your workouts

much more exhausted and tired,

like, and you're actually getting subpar results

from those workouts,

then that's actually going to probably lead

to a net negative effect on your race.

And so like, if we know that to be true,

then what is the protocol for this?

And this is the protocol again that I put on 99% of my athletes

and I'll explain what I do for the other one percent,

not to say that 1% is better, it's just different.

But for 99% of the athletes,

I do heat training and this is what I do for myself too,

in the taper period.

So the reason why we do in the taper period

is a few different reasons.

Number one, it's close to the race.

And so because heat training comes,

or basically like comes quick,

but it also goes quick,

we do an area where we can do it all really quick

and then it's right before the race

so we don't get any decay, right?

So that's the first reason.

The second reason is what are we doing less in the taper?

We are doing less running.

And because we are doing less running,

the heat is not going to impact basically the training

because that's the second reason.

We're not training during the taper period.

We are just being in this maintenance mode and recovering.

And so because of that,

we don't have to worry about the heat training

interrupting the training itself.

Thirdly, because we are doing less volume in the taper,

or we should be, we're doing less volume in the taper,

we have a less chance of injury,

we have less chance of any negative effects

that might come from a physical perspective

when it comes to heat training in and itself.

So those are the three things.

And also two, just from a time perspective, right?

Like again, you have to spend at least 15 to 20 minutes

in that hot way to do it.

And during like high volume training,

it's just harder to get in with all the things

that we're doing, such as like strain training,

everything's such two.

So that's why we do in the taper.

And this is the protocol right here.

So this is the taper protocol.

So I'm looking at a calendar

because I'm explaining it like through this way.

And let's just say, for example,

let's just say we're doing a race on,

I'm just looking at the calendar.

Let's say we're doing desert peak ultra.

Why not?

For the sake of everyday ultra here, right?

So you're doing desert peak ultra, which yes.

If you're doing desert peak ultra,

you should 100% be doing heat training

because it is gonna be over 70 degrees.

I pretty much, I want to guarantee it

because probably eat my shorts

and it'll be like a pouring rain day.

But all that being said, it'll probably be hot.

And so let's just say you're doing desert peak ultra

100K on April 11th.

What you do is you're going to work backwards.

So I would take away, I would not do Friday

before the race.

And I'm not too Thursday before the race of heat training.

I always keep the two days open

because again, three days is that decay period.

So if we know three days of decay period

and we don't want to be too wrecked before the race,

we can keep those two days open.

And then what I do is I count 10 days

from those next two days backwards.

So again, just as an example period,

races Saturday, April 11th, working backwards.

We have Friday the 10th and Thursday the 9th.

Those are gonna be no heat training days.

Now we're on Wednesday the 8th.

Now because again, seven to 10 days of consecutive training,

we're gonna work backwards

and we're gonna do 8th and then 10 days back from there too.

So on the 8th, the 6th, the 5th, that's four days,

the 4th, 5, 3, 2, 1, 8 days, 31st is 9 and 30th is 10.

So there you go, those are the days you're doing it.

Now, seven to 10 days, I would move it to 7

for several different reasons.

Number one, if there is just a pain in the ass

to get to the sauna or you can't get access

to the sauna in a certain time,

at that point, I would do starting on that,

basically I'll call it race day minus three, right?

So three days out from the race, essentially.

I would be doing seven days from there

if it's gonna be a pain in the ass to get to sauna.

If you're in a position where you're going to the taper

a little bit less recovered, right?

Like I've had times like where it's just like

you're in peak week, you're super exhausted,

you need to catch up on sleep.

I'm gonna have an athlete do seven days

as opposed to 10 days, just to get them to recover

a lot more before they get into the heat, right?

Or if someone responds to heat training,

like this is only how you're only gonna know this,

like when you actually do it.

Some people do like respond to heat training

where it does actually take a little bit more recovery time,

that's where I would probably do seven to 10 days.

But anyways, all that being said,

let's just say we're doing 10 days

so we would start on Monday the 30th

and do 10 days there from the 30th to April 8th,

and those would be the heat training things.

Now again, you have to do this consecutively.

If you break one of those days, you know,

you kind of ruin the chain, right?

So all, and that's why I like to do the 10 days

because even if, like if you go seven days, right,

and let's just say you miss one on the 8th,

like you already have 80% of the benefits.

And so all you need to do is just pick back up

and just redo it from there too.

So when you plan for the 10,

you give yourself a little bit more leeway,

which is kind of nice.

So all that being said, that's how you would do it on there too.

And again, if you're doing passive,

ideally as close after your run as possible

or later in the day, if you're doing your active heat training,

you can do it on any easy run,

except if you're doing a speed workout,

which usually there's about like one or so in the taper,

like usually one, or, and, or I should say,

you're doing a longer run.

You want to do the last 30 minutes.

So I wouldn't do like,

if you have like a speed workout to no possession

in that period, you know,

don't do the heat for the speed,

like just do it in like the last 30 minutes

or like the cool down.

And then if you're doing a long run,

that's like, let's just say two and a half hours.

Don't just wear the heat so if the two and a half hours

wear for the last 30 minutes.

Cause then again, your body's gonna be more warmed up

and things like that too.

So then that way you're not like overdoing the stressors.

But that's pretty much it.

Like you do that protocol, you're in a good spot.

Now you might be saying, okay, like what Joe,

you said like there's the 1% difference.

What would you do this differently?

So I would do a mid-season heat protocol

for two specific cases.

The first case is if you're racing a race

that has very extreme heat.

When I say extreme heat, like I'm thinking like real feel

is over like a hundred degrees or over.

So like bad water 135, you know,

keys 100 Western states, right?

Like if the race is generally a hundred degrees or more,

then I tend to like the mid-season heat training.

Now yes, there are some scenarios,

like cobbling 100 for example,

where usually it's at 80 degrees

and then race week we find out it's gonna be 100.

There's really not much we can do there.

But if we knew the race is gonna be 100,

then we can do it earlier in the season.

And the reason for that is because the heat training

is so intense and you wanna do like,

you actually for those races,

do a little bit more active heat training

because you're kind of like training the body

to be able to run and heat.

Like that's where like that extra

is gonna make a difference.

And then the other is gonna be like, you know,

I think about this, right?

Like David Roche, very big proponent of heat training, right?

You'll see a lot of professional athletes going out

and doing mid-season heat training, mid-training,

block heat training.

So to say a generous of training a lot of times there.

But they're doing it like year round.

And the reason for that is because, you know,

I always think about if we look at the people

who are the best in the world,

like they've kind of hit the near ceiling of fitness.

And so like what they need to do to help

to keep going up is gonna be more of those additional gains, right?

So like heat training, although it can help,

I still define it as like a marginal gains kind of thing.

And so like when you kind of progress to the level

where you only have so much to go in fitness,

like I always think of like Jim Womsey and Courtney DeWalter,

there's like, they're like some of those fit

ultra-unters in the world.

Like there's not much more fit they can get, right?

And so like to keep getting to the next level,

they gotta do these things to help to like push them

over the edge a little bit, right?

And that's like why with people who are like

are very experienced or like you've done heat training

many times, like you can start to experiment that

once you kind of squeeze all the juices of fitness,

but like for 99% of us, including myself here,

like we have so much to go in our fitness

and so much to go in our training

that like we don't want to take that away

for the sake of heat training,

whereas like a lot of people,

it's like they're only getting minimal benefits

from just the training,

so they need to add that on top of it

to make things a little bit more impactful, so to say.

So think about that from that way for sure.

And then if you do do mid-season heat training,

let's just say you do have a bad water or anything like that too,

or something like that, like I'm doing bad water,

so I will be doing mid-season heat training

in Western states, Western states is usually

around 100 degrees or so,

so I will be doing mid-block heat training.

Remember, seven to 10 days,

but then you have to do,

so it decays after three days.

But what science shows is that once you are fully heat trained,

if you just do one session every three days,

on that same protocol I mentioned before,

15 to 20 minutes, with double resting heart rate,

all that stuff, you actually maintain the full heat adaptation.

So if you do a mid-season,

you have to do one of those sessions once every three days

or at least like within that timeframe.

So like think about it,

so just be sure of that,

because if you don't,

it's gonna go away quickly.

So keep all that in mind

if you're going to be in that mid-season heat training

factor in there as well, too.

So the reason why I bring this up to is because

I always think back to the first time I trained

for hobbling 100.

I was working with my coach at the time, Zach Bitter.

And I asked him,

because I live in Phoenix,

and I knew hobbling was hot.

And I remember going to him on my coaching call

and I was like, oh, I live in Phoenix,

so I'm probably gonna be doing all my long runs

and like the hot in like the middle of the day,

and he's like, no, you're not.

And I was like, what do you mean?

And he's like, yeah, because heat training

is one of those things is like the more you do it,

it's not like the better you're gonna get.

And it's like, that's the specific protocol.

And the more you do it can actually be worse.

Like more is not better when it comes to heat training

because again, seven to 10 days consecutively,

and then you just do it after that,

it's basically just like negative load on the body.

That essentially is not gonna lead

to an additional benefit, right?

So if you're just running in the heat all year round,

plus for me, I was like,

I'm just gonna run my long runs in the heat.

That's one day as opposed to like the whole

seven to 10 day consecutive thing

where it's not even gonna lead to any impact.

And so, and then he's like, yeah,

you're gonna do this protocol in the taper,

did it in the taper,

and I've never felt really hot at Hoppeleena

doing this taper for three times doing that race,

and I've done some other hotter races as well.

So that's the protocol in there for heat training,

which if you follow that, you'll be in a good position

for sure.

And all you guys work with coaches too,

so we're here to give that protocol to you,

make sure you have that built in

and make sure you're ready to go for your race.

Few other quick things before we open up for quick questions

is in a race, we didn't talk about this,

but there is, because it's not necessarily heat training,

but it's more heat management.

And race is all the time, if it's a dry heat,

make sure you're staying wet, right?

That's why I mentioned before with sweat,

like it's there to evaporate,

and so you accelerate the process

by dumping water on your cells.

The more you can stay wet,

the more you can have ice, ice, bandana,

ice leaves, any of that stuff,

so it melts, and then you have a drip of water through you,

the cooler you're gonna be.

If you're in humid environment, ice on the skin,

ice on the skin is gonna help.

If you just throw water on yourself,

it's not gonna evaporate because the air is thick.

So ice on the skin, ice bandana, arm sleeves,

ice on your pack, women, you guys,

you guys got the advantage because you can stick

the ice in your sports bra.

I mean, hey, men, you can wear sports bra too,

like there's everyone can do whatever they want,

but like all that being said,

like shove it wherever it's gonna be touching the skin, right?

Like I've even, what I've done before is,

like I put ice down my shirt,

and I tucked my shirt in my pants,

and so basically it's like all around my stomach.

Doesn't matter where it is,

like what actually matters more

from like an ice perspective is gonna be

how much surface area of your skin it's gonna cover.

And so yeah, that's like heat management protocol.

And then this is beyond the scope of this episode,

but you know, thinking about getting your sweat rate dialed,

thinking about getting your sodium concentration dialed,

like good hydration is also gonna lead

to good thermal regulation,

and good thermal regulation is gonna be

more happiness in the heat.

And so getting making sure that your hydration

is also down pat is a really good heat management thing.

But today it was more about training

as opposed to heat management.

So you can always cover heat management stuff too,

but that's the protocol that you should be doing

for heat training for sure.

Now real quick, before we open up some quick questions,

the first thing is I don't necessarily like

to have people heat training for tuna braces.

And again, the reason for that is because

we don't want it to interrupt what the training, right?

So, and it's not an a-ray,

so it's not like we gotta like put the chips

on the table for that.

Unless the race is like very, very hot, like again,

and those extreme heat conditions,

I'm usually personally not heat training

into a race, that's a tuna brace, right?

But if it's an a-race, I'll go for it.

Second thing, Tau 200, I did it last year,

and it was hot.

It was like 80 degrees.

I did not heat training for that race.

The reason why I felt pretty burnt,

not like from heat wise, but like, you know,

just like fatigue wise from training and stuff.

And so to preserve my recovery in the taper,

I did not heat train.

And I actually end up having my best 200 mile ever.

So, again, if you take care of yourself,

like don't dig yourself into a deeper hole with heat,

if you're going to the taper feeling smoked,

prioritize the recovery.

Again, that's still like one of the biggest important things.

So just know that this heat training

is not a be-all and all thing.

Like it's not gonna define your race.

You're just gonna, you gotta feel like, you know,

more manageable in the heat,

but it's not gonna like make or break your race.

So that's the second thing out there.

And the third thing is plan A head.

So like, start, if you know you got a race,

like in May, let's say you're doing coconut.

You should be a heat training.

Like, if you don't have access to a sauna, fine one.

If you don't have access to layers, fine one.

Plan on your calendar that I need to do this seven

to 10 days in a row.

Like, I know anytime I have a hot race,

like Western states like I already have like the days

where I'm gonna be doing active heat training.

And I already schedule out in advance,

like when I'm gonna go to the sauna and like all that stuff too.

So, plan in advance and you'll be in a good spot.