The Future of Trail Running? Inside The Trail House with Emory and Jeremy from Hyperlyte

Welcome to the Everyday Ultra Podcast, a show designed to help you level up your training,

crush your races, and ultimately become a veteran endurance athlete every single day.

Whether you're an endurance athlete as a hobby or someone who wants to be the best in

the sport, this is the show for you.

I'm your host, Joe Corseon, and thank you so much for listening.

Now, let's get into it.

What's up, everybody?

Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Ultra Podcast.

I'm your host, Joe Corseon, and today we got a special episode because we are welcome

in back, Emory, Adderberry, and Jeremy Bonay back from Hyperlite.

It was a very, very popular episode that we had when we first had them on a couple of

weeks ago, and people loved them so much that we wanted to bring them back, but we

talked about something different here.

We talked about this awesome project that Hyperlite is doing called the Trail House, and

the whole idea around it is to talk about support, mentorship, and how much environment

matters when you are developing as an ultra athlete.

They talk about why they believe all these aspects are super important for not only us

as ultra runners to develop, but for us to have a fulfilling career in ultra running,

and why they're coming up with this project to help with it as well.

Also, this episode is hosted by my amazing colleague, friend, and Everyday Ultra coach,

Melissa Clark, who is absolutely incredible, so she is the host in this episode.

So if you don't hear me on there, that is why.

But, Melissa does an amazing job, and I can't wait for you to dive in the episode, but before

we do one quick thing, before we dive in the episode, I need to talk about one thing that's

all on our minds, which is shoes, right?

The shoes that you pick for ultra marathons are super important, and I've ran in nearly

every brand that produces a shoe for trail running out there, and let me tell you this,

I've recently tried a type of shoe that is the best shoe for ultra marathons that I've

ever worn, specifically because this company designed shoes for ultra marathons, while

most companies design shoes for shorter races, or distances that don't cover up to that

100 mile or 200 mile distance that can really, really be comfortable, resilient, durable,

and one that fits the needs of ultra marathons, and this company is Mount to Coast.

Mount to Coast makes shoes specifically for ultra runners on road, trail, or even hybrid

shoes that work good on the road and the trail at the same time.

My favorite shoe of all time is the Mount to Coast H1, which is absolutely amazing on trails

that are runnable for very long distances, and you can even run with it on the road too,

and it has some of the best foam and the most comfortable foam that I've ever ran into.

I also love their T1s on the trail, which are great for technical trails, rocky trails, trails

where you need that extra grip, and the best part is it has this lacing system where you

can actually let the shoe breathe a little bit, in case you get swelling later into an ultra

marathon with the feet, which almost every ultra runner will get in the long enough distances

as well.

Don't forget there are one, their road shoe, which is absolutely responsive, comfortable,

and good for speed workouts, and also easy road cruising miles.

The best part is the shoes are made to last.

Last year, Jamil Curry at his Chipotle Challenge ran 600 miles in one pair of Mount to Coast

H1s, and it kept them cruising for the win to win free burritos for a year.

I know Kevin Goldberg ran over 200 miles in one shot with one pair at Man with 200, so

these shoes are built to last, and no one likes having to throw away shoes early.

If you want to give Mount to Coast to try, you can get 10% off your order by going to

the link in the show notes and using code Everyday Ultra for 10% off your order.

That's 10% off your order with code Everyday Ultra when you go to the link in the show notes

for Mount to Coast, give them a try, they're the best shoes that I have ever worn in my

Ultron in career, and I will be wearing them exclusively at all my races this year, so

I'm excited to dive into that.

So without further ado, let's get in the episode and enjoy those Mount to Coast shoes.

Hey everyone, welcome to the Everyday Ultra podcast.

My name is Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today.

I'm stoked to bring back a part two of a conversation with the founders of Hyper Light.

We have Emory and Jeremy with us again today, and I'm just so excited to continue with

this conversation as a Hyper Light athlete, as just a massive fan of these two.

I felt like we just didn't get enough of them, so Emory and Jeremy, thanks so much for

joining me again today.

Thanks for having me.

So this is so cool.

Thanks, Alyssa.

We don't normally get invited back to things, so this is going to be fun.

You're like, this is not, yeah, I know.

I feel like we just, when Joe finished the podcast, I went, wait, but there's so much more.

So I said, hey, Joe, do you mind if I bring them back on?

I'd love to tap further.

And I want to start out actually with something that you just released, which is the trailhouse.

So I'd love to hear what is the trailhouse?

Why, what was the need for it?

And we have a few more questions we'll get into, but yeah, we'll start there.

Alyssa, so the trailhouse was a combination.

Many months of work and effort between a couple of brands, including myself,

Ben Republic, Kenzie's and lever movement.

And we were all kind of landing for back channel communication on the same idea at the

same time.

And it was this idea of like full support athlete development with the intention of ushering

and like youth to the sport in the most appropriate way that we could, because we saw a little

bit of a disconnect in the industry now where a couple of things happen.

When it comes in, besides they want to be a professional trail runner and they're super talented

and that forces them to live out of their van and figure it out and just kind of be a dirt

back for a year, which is fine.

And then there's the other route where somebody comes in and says, well, I want to live in

this beautiful place.

It's got all these trails.

Now I have a mortgage or a rent that I can barely pay and I can barely pay it.

So I got to get a full-time job.

And now I got to squeeze in 24 hours of running and go prove myself in one or two events

and maybe it will or will not happen.

And then hopefully somebody offered me a contract that I probably can't live off of anyway.

And so we had a really cool opportunity to watch Hans develop as an athlete and grow

in his sponsorship journey and really go live like a, you know, an awesome, objective,

checklist, runner's dream.

And we were like, what would it really look like as a brand in this industry to give

a kid who we know at the top of the sport collegially, who have a passion to go, run, a full opportunity.

Give them a house, place to live, a stipend to live off of, fill the freezer, fill the fridge,

give them a weight room, give them professional coaching and let them guide the project the

way that they wanted to and all that we ask in return is let us film it and let people

watch it.

And that's when the concept of the drill house was born.

And we said, we think we can do this.

We think we can keep it athlete led.

We think it can be a valuable piece in the sport right now for no other intention than doing

the right thing in the way that we think it should be done.

So I hope that was a decent overview.

But that's how the idea spawned and then it was like, then we went to work that how does

this thing actually now get constructed, place, funding, all of that.

I would love to just sit in your office wedding, hear all of the ideas and like projects you

have going on because I feel like I know some of them and then all of a sudden like, where

did that come from?

And you've been thinking about it for months.

Yeah.

I mean, I think we share the same personal defect you all have been subjected to my ideas

as well.

So yeah, you got to have people who are doing it.

And I think the biggest thing that comes up is that people struggle to execute it.

And I feel like you all do a great job of executing these ideas.

So Finn, I was on a pot or Finn and I were recording the weekly trail running news podcast.

And he had a couple of questions.

This is over on single track about the trail running house.

And so I wanted to bring those up because I wanted to give you an opportunity to answer

them and just give the audience also an idea, I think of the bigger picture of where we're

hoping trail running is going because I think that you all are such leaders in not just thinking

about what's happening now, but thinking about where we're going.

And so he asked these questions of how much content are you getting with these athletes?

How is that funded?

And what are you kind of like, where is this content going to be housed as well?

I'll speak to the content side because it's what makes sense to me.

And then I think there's a lot of questions that I think for so many minutes will show.

Recruiting side accounts, you know, Jarvis, so as far as content goes, I remember what

originally inspired me to send loads of running was these really cool videos.

You got like the highlight wheels by flow track and the workout Wednesdays and then you

would have like the new gin track and field videos that Ben was putting together where

Cole Hawker and Cooper Tier would go train all summer long and they would almost kind

of be like a flop.

And then you would have like inner woven in between there were like highlight cuts on the

trail of their workouts.

And I was like, and then, you know, 10 men elite coming in and saying, we're going to

showcase our interpersonal lives and what it looks like to be trying to be a professional

run.

And I was like, man, if you could take all of those things and put them together and give

people a real sense of what it feels like, you know, coming from the D2 locker room days

in football, like you remember the games and you remember the wins, but what you miss

most is those moments in the locker room.

And I know that's what I was gravitating towards when I was watching the content of all

this running, of all these running videos.

And I was like, the trail is the coolest and why aren't we doing this for trail?

And I know people would love to watch it.

They not only just want to see the highlight reel of the morning run, but they also want

to see the head coach standing with them at the trail for the afternoon run.

And they want to see the breakfast burrito making in the kitchen while playing FIFA and

hockey sack.

You know what I mean?

Like, these are fun people to watch.

And then we said, OK, if the goal of this is a steward talent, well, what do we do with

the content?

We make it.

It'll get views.

But this is the best part.

If we're getting all that content, we have so many reels that we're cutting up and collaborating

all the time.

We don't want any of the kids to worry about having to post or build their own brand.

We're just collabbing that stuff with them all the time.

They just hit except this is by the time they do go shot sign a shoe contract.

We have helped them build their brand over this year, just bettering their chances of being

a pro.

So the content for me was like part entertainment, win, win, win.

And then part helping them so that they didn't have to actually worry about.

We were taking care of all of that for them.

And then I knew like selfishly, I want to watch it every other week.

Give me the every other week episode drop.

Let me into their lives a little bit as much as they want to.

And I think people would really enjoy it.

And it would continue to pull people in afterwards.

Imagine now the collegiate runners watching this really cool stuff.

Oh, athletes are living together, training together, training hard and watching all of it.

Imagine now the junior or a senior at the university is like, I'd like to try to, oh, that's

cool.

If we think it would continue to help foster youth in the sport.

Yeah.

And I think that's where go for it.

Yeah.

I'll say one, a couple of things.

One, you know, the hope is that they are being important to through practical coaching.

Right.

And they're going to have coach there involved as well as mentors within the Boulder community.

You know, Hans is there now.

And he loves the idea of being super involved, running with them on an ongoing basis.

And just like pouring into them because he's one step ahead of them, right.

He was there two years ago.

And for someone like him, the poor and of them, I think it would be massive.

And then how cool would it be for these group of guys to also be an inspiration to high schoolers

and college kids that are also chasing a similar dream who can come out and maybe run with them, you know, once a week.

And also for them to like pour into the next generation.

So really sort of like see this as them getting inspiration from folks who are again a little bit ahead of them and also them inspiring the next generation.

And then practically speaking to answer your question around how is it funded?

It's a mix of hyper light, lever movement and wind republic sponsoring the project so that these kids can have a stipend, right.

And be able to live the house again, have a coach and they might work jobs above living in the house.

Maybe coaching or working with both a running shop or whatever that might look like.

But at least they're going to be taking care of at a basic level to be able to live in a place that's not the most affordable place.

And then, you know, we actually intentionally kind of left a major shoe brand out of the ongoing sponsorship mix because we realize that for a lot of these kids helping them hit their goal, which is really the heart behind it is how can we help these kids get their goals.

Means landing a shoe brand sponsorship, right. That's not going to be probably outcome for everybody. It might be.

But if we allow it to be shoe brand agnostic, then I think that experience for them and for the viewer can be pretty organic, right.

Because it allows for any shoe brand to come in and, you know, work with that athlete and hopefully eventually sign that that shoe deal that, you know, they're looking for.

And so if we can make sure that in a more organic way, then we would love that.

And was there another question that you asked that we haven't answered yet.

No, I think that was kind of that first part of it. And two things that I will say is that I think many of us that come from the collegiate team sports or even, I mean, it's all kind of team sports.

We do really miss that collaborative piece where you're in it. I mean, gosh, I spent 20 plus hours last week training by myself.

And yeah, that is very different from road running. It's very different from so many other sports. I really think trail. And I've seen thoughts towards it or like kind of movements towards it, but not really just this like, you know, I think of OAC and Boulder is this really powerful group.

And we don't really have that in trail. I mean, we have kind of glimpses of it, but we don't have that collective. Hey, I'm on a team pushing together.

And the other part is that I think about this a lot is that as you, it's a little bit of a chicken in the egg thing with getting better at this sport is that it's very hard to surpass the baseline of like, I get into races for free.

You know, got my score up high enough. I start getting travel paid for I start like the elites that are at the front of the race do have an easier time than the people that are just behind.

Because so many things are set up for us. That being said, it's not that that was given to them. They worked very hard, but that barrier to start getting things made easier for you is I think very challenging. And so I love that you're saying like, okay, we're going to reduce this barrier to start so that you don't have to just fight.

And of course part of that fighting is a part of it, but it is really challenging. We're like, yeah, that is an advantage that most elites have.

And how do we get there by training harder, etc. But if you're training harder, you have less time to work. So yeah, chicken in the egg thing if I always thought that.

Not helping the chicken in the egg was like, yes, okay, if you can commit to 14 months it, you know, like, let's say whatever get through the following years, you can commit to that, like wanting to train and actually go all in and being full time after if that's your persona, if that's your goal, well, then we can commit to like, don't worry about the flight, don't worry about the lodging, don't worry about any of that stuff, don't worry about the fuel link, don't worry about the coaching.

If you're taking a bet on us that we can help get you there, we will commit to you that, that you will be taking care of and you don't have to worry about those things because ultimately people can talk about how paying for the flight and working the job, like that's just part of the grind and it doesn't affect training.

I'm like, what if we remove that bird, what does truly becoming pro look like?

And who are you looking for as athletes? Do you have kind of an idea of who these people could be? Are you, how are you weighing raw talent with the personality of someone who, like, to go back to our pre conversation are elites boring?

How are you looking at the personality side where you're like, yeah, this person's going to draw a fan base. I mean, I think almost single handedly you, the kid was such a vital part of people knowing who Hans is, loving who he is and allowing his personality to shine.

Is that alone? You just allowed other people to see it. How are you balancing raw talent with personality? Or are you just saying, you know, if they're talented enough, we'll figure out a way to show what a cool human they are.

Yeah, it's a great question. So I think there's three things. My mind thinks in three. So I'll go and order one is character. Like, who are they as a person? What are they stand for? That's really, really important that we're investing in people that we feel like reflect our values and are of, you know, high character.

And then two, of course, I'd say upside in terms of running and desire to continue to push the limits. And you know, typically it's going to be that 50, 50 K to 100 mile distance is usually where their aspirations lie.

And then third, yeah, of course, like personality, but we also want to have a mix of personalities. Because I think that's what will be make for interesting content. If there's a solid mix of sort of personalities, kind of all of the spectrum.

And then, you know, practically speaking, I think 21 to 25 years old, which is usually right out of college. And then we also think about, hey, how can we find a mix of kids that, you know, are all over?

So maybe somebody from East Coast, maybe one person from West Coast and maybe even somebody internationally so that we can sort of have reflection of cultures, you know, all over the US and ideally even somebody internationally.

I think like the diversity of personalities and also like the diversity of where folks come from. I think we'll make for like some pretty interesting content. That's why I think about it. And we're, we have a few folks that we're really excited about. And then we obviously just release the application last week and have a lot of folks who have applied. So we're getting really excited. Like we're not at the point where we're ready to announce that we're really excited about the mix of folks that are going to be in the house.

Yeah, I think that you have to, you know, there's a little bit of the responsibility of the craft of creating the media and the episodes that you, you know, you want the characters to be authentic and nothing to be fake. And like, you know, it's one of those where you hold all of those things that Jeremy said beforehand. And then that last piece of personality as we're interviewing these kids, you just kind of keep that in mind a little bit.

And you just make sure that like it's never going to be a complete detractor because ultimately like, you know, you also don't want to usher in the only kids in the sport that are entertaining. That's not, that's not ever the goal. I do think back to the 10 minute lead days where those guys in the house.

Sam was different than Reed Fisher. And then like, you know, Drew's getting ready for USA champs. He's hyped up. He's listening to music. He's doing his warm up and Brian Baraza is sitting in the back reading a book and the camera catches all of that. And they don't make anyone be someone they're not like that to me is really cool.

So I think it would be like weird if everybody was this very boy's choice outgoing character. Like, that's not what any, that's not what we wanted what we want or want to see. And I think that you, I think that you can make really cool story lines with, with everyone's got something that they want to say, you know, whether they're exuberant or not. And I think that you can really create cool support and character development around any personality that you get.

If you work hard enough, if the branch work hard enough to do it, right.

Yeah. And I think it demonstrates that there's no one personality type that is successful in the world in anything like there's so many different ways.

Like I think about before UTMB last year, Jeff, Moga Verro and I were sitting in his parents apartment, because we're going to walk to the start line together in the way that he was preparing for the race was very different from the way that I was preparing.

And it's just so interesting to see what people do in those moments.

So that'll be, that'll be a lot of fun to get a sneak peek into that.

Well, those things come out of workouts too.

So we're going to show you some of the differences.

But how cool will that be to like watch them, push them full of certain workouts or somebody is the workout hero or somebody, you know what I mean?

Like that will be so fun to watch ultimately for the greater good that they're all pushing each other, you know.

What does success look like for this project?

Easy question.

Yeah.

We'll look at it, say forward plates getting studios.

But I don't think it's, I don't think it's that simple.

I think it's helping these four athletes accomplish their goals.

You know, first time it might look like a studio and would we be upset if all four landed to shoot you?

Absolutely not.

But I think helping these four athletes push the limits and support them and help them improve and help them.

That she their goals.

Whatever that might look like for us is like that's the objective.

Right.

And helping tell their story.

I think I'm re-immented, but I think a lot of brands put way too much on us on athletes telling their own story and I'm telling the brand story.

And I think that's backwards.

Like I think if at brands do an excellent job of telling the stories of their super interesting of these up and coming athletes.

Like in turn, of course that helps the brand.

If you look at sort of what's how we approach the kid project.

Like not really new on the story and we were like super excited and honored to go tell that story.

And rather than put it on him to tell that story.

And then of course in turn that helps.

I believe so we want to help tell these stories and help these kids get their goals.

And again, that might look different for each, for each person.

Yeah, I think another piece to us, you know, I'm totally like a romantic with all of these stories.

And when when people when you start thinking about something and you build something and you get to the moment, you're like, I have to do this now.

Like I do now that I'm so I've sold myself so much on how it's needed and how there is a gap and a gap in the industry watching the gaps just get wider.

Knowing that like even if other brands maybe approach this project, they would approach it differently, maybe for other gain or other desires.

It just like continue to reinforce.

We have to do this because it's the right thing to do because I'm tired of waiting on somebody else to do it and possibly do it for the wrong reasons.

So it was one of those things where you've just been pulled so hard like you have the opportunity to help that we have to do it.

And I think that like, I think that we can do it better than anyone else. So I'm super stoked.

I think there's a lot of looking relate to this, but there's those times where you have that feeling that you need to do something, you need to do something and then something else validates it.

So you're like, okay, we're doing this.

So Brad, who's the CEO of Leber is a friend of ours and he also over the last year had this sort of like I have to do this because he's in Boulder and he sees the gap.

He's this problem with college folks not having this pipeline to achieve their dreams, right?

And I've heard Emory talk about this as well for years, you know, since I knew heaven.

So when he came to us and said, we had this vision, this dream and everything was like, you're reading my mail.

Like, this is crazy.

We've had this exact same dream over the last year plus, okay, this is the validation that, you know, we need advice person to go make this happen.

So super cool, like two friends who've had this dream, both kind of come together and it's like, okay, let's go make this happen.

And Brad's been huge and getting this thing off the ground.

We're really, really honored excited to work with him.

We had a heart check to Alyssa after we kind of like came together and realized, like, okay, we're both seeing this from the same side that it's a broken system.

We also started approaching it right away saying, like, okay, well, what should we go build the next lead build champ?

Should we identify a race, build into that race?

And then the next day we came to ourselves, like, no, dude, all wrong.

We were approaching this wrong again, like, check ourselves at the door.

This needs to, we need to, if we're going to fully support them, we need to help the athlete.

The athlete is going to tell us where their desires are, because we were like, that's wrong of us as a brand to say everybody needs to go run the Leadville 100 to be famous and popular.

Like, that's also something wrong that we are doing in this sport.

Why not let them tell us the races they want to go run?

And then we just support that.

So we had to like consistently check ourselves and say, are we doing this the right way or are we just following suit with what we think the trends are?

And it was a really cool moment of like refining really with the project meant sticking to like true core values of the project and always doing the right thing by the athlete and.

Yeah, it was it was nice to watch two dreams collide and also two dreams really like consistently check themselves, you know, am I in it for so much gain or am I really in this to do something work, you know.

I think it brings up two interesting points. So we were at black came together and we were having this conversation where it was very much how do athletes navigate what they really want to do and what they're kind of think they're supposed to do and where they're heart wise.

And so it's interesting that that came up in your conversation as well.

I also that was one of my questions for this trail team is how are you navigating race schedules are there races that you are targeting for these athletes to go to are you giving them kind of full rain.

Also, do you have a coach picked out or are you giving a stipend for the coach to come in or maybe that can't be revealed yet.

I think on the coach side, we have coach one of the pieces when we realized that was also this is an opportunity for the trail house project to also from we believe is to a coach.

Hopefully a win win there that we're supporting each other, not just work side coach on board, but also the coaches excited some of the stuff.

So we see so we make sure.

As far as navigating race schedules, I'll just speak to throughout these interviews.

The first thing that you realize when you start talking to highest level collegiate athletes who love trail running, let's say those are like very too worldly objective drivers.

They absolutely already have race plans.

So we realize that very quickly and so.

From, you know, practically most of them don't have too many race plans for some, which is really easy to navigate.

This is so much.

We totally say go race.

But we're not going to stop your summer plans and go race.

You park your car at the house, put all your stuff in there and go raise your race that you that's on your mind and on your heart and they come back and will knuckle down and like try to really figure out what this looks like for you.

Because you're not going to somebody that really loves running the mountains is not going to sell.

And that's a really cool thing that we want to honor and foster.

It would surprise you the kinds of races that that a post collegiate kid has already gone and signed up for.

I'm pretty sure one of them wants to do the high five 100 in the sand wands, which.

Oh my god.

You don't need to argue about.

The United States and our like, we're very.

He says, Hey, just one thing like we're like, I have to make a trip in July for a weekend.

What?

Well, high five.

I want to run it.

Oh, you mean like the self supported 100 mileer that navigates at 13,000 feet for the majority of the race that no one finishes for sure.

Thank you guys.

Well, enjoy just like don't break an ankle.

We'll see you soon enough.

Hey, everybody.

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All right, everyone, let's get back in the episode with no more ads for the rest of this episode.

It's so funny to me that's like, I just got to take a trip.

Not like, hey, I think I'm probably going to be racing. It's like, I just take it a trip.

City, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It was once again a moment.

Things and stuff with the hey, well, what a schedule thing.

And I think the overall driver is we don't care if somebody wants to be the 50 get the 50k speed go champion.

Okay, whatever.

I don't know if brands like or do not like somebody winning the San Juan solstice.

I don't know.

But I do know that the athlete's probably going to race better and be way more into trail running forever.

When you let that be their guiding light, whatever's drawing them to that.

Yeah.

I think we're just working off the back of their motivations at some point in like.

And professional coaching helps obviously like guide that in the right way because there's a lot of wisdom and years in the sport behind it.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And this should be clear with one coach for all four athletes.

And yeah, I think the in terms of races, which races they do a lot of that from from our end comes in the interview process and making sure we're bringing in the types of athletes that want to do, you know, these, these races that, you know, we feel like we'll help them achieve.

They'll achieve their goals, right?

But for the most part, it's going to be completely up to them and their coach, you know, to work together to figure out, hey, where what is the best race for you to based on where your goals are.

Right.

So it'll be a mix.

It'll be all of the math.

It'll be 100 mile, be 50K.

It might even be broken arrow.

You know, it was a 26 K.

So it'll be exciting to kind of see like the breadth of the sport represented through the project.

Just know that when we do our best once again as a brand role.

We are going to give you out so you can witness what's closely to 2027 unless you're in it.

But like we want you there.

We want you to see it.

You know, so like, although like maybe Western states are not on your radar.

Why not just take the kids there, let them see it and maybe then they want to.

Or maybe they decide like, no, I never want to run Western states.

I hope I'm the person that makes me run Western states.

That's the appropriate filter for it.

You take them to Shamanie and you show them what the technical looks like.

And maybe they decide like, I absolutely want to be a CCC champ on that moment.

That's great.

That would be cool to film, cool to witness, cool to watch.

But maybe once again, they're like, not the same for me.

Like, I just want to go, I want to go be the hard rock champ or whatever.

I mean, like, I think it's really cool instead of pressing it on them.

Just show them all of it and then let them decide.

You know.

Yeah, you can force inspiration and performance.

Like, you saw what you did at hurt.

Like that race meant so much to you.

Right?

And I think the result that you had out there, I think, was very much rooted in this deep

passion and inspiration for that course.

I think when we chatted, I was saying, like, I really respect athletes like Karen Tharnold

and Jimmy Elon, who are just doing what they want to do.

Like, they're all doing bare 100 and high-lonesome and wassage.

And like, these are not the races that the brands, you know, are forcing athletes to run.

But these are races that they want to race.

And they managed to land shoe contracts.

And they managed to perform at a very, very high level as a result of just following their heart.

Right?

But it's, of course, like, we have to, you know, do things that if we have a contract with a brand,

like, there is an obligation there, so you have to balance that.

But like, we just want to make sure that the athletes aren't being forced to do things that we say that, you know, they need to do.

Yeah. No, I think there's always a balance because, you know, at the end of the day,

maybe this is a little bit more in focus with shoe brands.

We are marketing.

We are their marketing team.

And so we do have to be visible at the events that they are trying to market to.

But I do think that they're absolutely, I just wrote down.

It was, you can't divorce inspiration from performance.

Right.

Yeah.

That's going up on my wall of sticky notes.

Is it hopefully you align with a brand that those two are melded together?

Because I think you can.

And so that's part of it.

But it is, it is really exciting that you're not, yes, you're identifying athletes that are already stoked on it.

And it made me think when you were chatting about the athletes, is that are you finding that the people you're most drawn to?

And of course, part of the reason is to remove some of the difficulty, but they would be doing it anyway.

Yeah, at least when I've been interviewing kids in this stage, you know, they're at a crook square.

A lot of people are telling them, go get a full time job.

You want to go to this running thing.

You're not going to do it on the side like you have this degree now.

Go do that.

And you can tell in the other one, they would easily give up all of that because they're not done running.

And they want to go live in a van and like they want, you know, they want to do that.

And I feel like it's just like helping foster or maybe put the sea level job on hold for, you know, a couple of years here and truly work with their passion that would make them live out of their van.

And yeah, I do believe that I do know this.

They all absolutely love running and they, for the most part, all kind of feel like they have something to prove.

At least that's been a constant through all of these conversations.

And I do believe that the people that apply and that we do end up interviewing and the people we have interviewed, they all seem to have that same mentality that you're referring to.

A little bit left to prove and a lover.

Yeah, yeah, it's, I think of that a lot is.

I think it's a little bit more prevalent in the climbing world where you have these absolute crushers that are just hidden away like Andre Leclerc.

I'm forgetting his full name, but he's the alpinist.

And he didn't care about sponsorship.

He didn't care about money, didn't care about anything, but doing the thing he loved the most.

Mark Andre Leclerc, there we go.

And so I would assume that in many ways you were trying to identify those people that are the Anton Kupichkas that it's like they're running shirtless in whatever shoes they can find just because they can't be kept away from it.

Yeah, yeah, they they all have a little bit of.

I would say they all have a little bit of a.

Kind of a drone, let's say maybe that it was a youthful drone.

Maybe they like to see in the homes.

You can totally imagine them.

Shocking away all reality and living in them.

They all kind of have that feeling at all times, you know, single just cool.

I love that.

So just the last bit applications are open right now.

What's kind of the logistics of it if people are listening and want to get involved or apply?

Yeah, technically they close individual.

And then lots of announcements will be made kind of in that timeframe after that.

There is a link on the trailhouse code.

Instagram takes you to a form that form page lives on lever movement dot com.

One of the partner brands in this project.

It's simple questions a couple of pointed questions.

Commitment level questions like, you know, this is not like a.

Hey, you know, you live in.

Inverter going to drive up a couple days a week and train with this group.

This is like.

Rat the trailhead twice a day with the coach kind of thing, you know, and you're committing to.

Along a long grind here.

And that has probably weeded out a few here and there, but anybody that's interested can go apply.

If it's pulling at you and somebody knows that they can.

That they think they've got a shot and they can commit it and they want to be the next.

Follow their dreams. It's all.

It's all their way.

Yeah.

I want to be part of the team.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Love that.

We'll go check it out if you.

If you feel that pull.

So something I would love to touch on.

And this has become clear so much just with this conversation.

It's one of the questions that I was thinking about last night for you to.

I'm trying to think of how to word it exactly, but.

You brought it up that it just felt like the right thing to do.

And I feel like that is the driving force of your business of the actions you take in the trail world of just how you live.

Your lives.

And from what I've seen that's garnered.

Success in a lot of way like a lot of success for a very new company.

How have you developed that belief over and over that doing the right thing is going to lead you to where you want to go.

And how has your friendship like how do you check each other.

Throughout that process to keep that alignment.

It's one of the things I find the most striking about you too.

And yeah, I'm curious does that come up in conversation like how have you allowed this to.

Move the direction of hyperlay and just.

What you've done the trail world.

I think.

Yeah, that's also question.

What that to my grave.

Sorry, that's a huge question to cut and draw.

Yeah, I think that that means a lot.

Yeah, I'm a very.

Very curious person.

I love dissecting.

Why people do things.

And a lot of time that causes me to just think all day and try to extend the psyche and.

The moments that start noticing.

They're missing pieces I can keep in more.

So I mean, we developed a high sodium.

Why did we do that?

Because I was noticing.

The other brings the same amount of sodium and electrolyte profile in them.

And it needed to be fixed.

And I said, all the other brands are way through for me.

And I wanted something that was.

And I wanted something that really easy.

So that's like, that's a product of me just dissecting like the reason why.

Why maybe.

Things.

And I felt like there was.

I needed.

Kind of a nutritional profile.

And so the first thing I can fall to is.

Is help.

And so.

Maybe.

We used that this saying.

You know, if not you then who.

And that always sticks with me.

And it's like.

I think that the feeling when you get that.

You've been pressed upon with certain knowledge and an opportunity to do something.

And witness to things maybe being good or bad.

I think there's a little bit of a responsibility to not just let that leave.

And then you know,

you're going to have to chip away at it and explore.

And if it results in starting a company to do it.

If it results in starting a media project to do it.

And why not.

And I think there's been enough.

Moments in my life where I've gained confidence in.

Yes, the finances exist here.

And I think I draw a lot of inspiration from Jeremy with these things.

But.

Like that.

The money will take care of itself.

And then to do the right things.

And I think that takes a little bit of experience like I think that takes taking a few risks every now and then.

And like following your gut and trusting that you've been.

Provided these thoughts and this knowledge and these actions.

And the ability to observe issues.

That responsibility and taking a risk.

And just knowing the rest will work out is it's really fun.

It just takes reps, I think.

that answer a little bit of like how that's a guiding light. I think ultimately I think about like

objectively, if I didn't create hyperlite, I would still be mixing a bunch of problems.

It's to be waiting on somebody to not have a systems-based approach, which is fine.

Not the way I like to explode amounts to the systems-based approach.

So yeah, hopefully that helped.

Objectively though, if we didn't start hyperlite, we would still be out

racing these races and running every single day. And so I think anytime you can marry

your passion with your strengths or skills and what you can get paid for, it's like a really

beautiful thing. And we've been like blessed to be able to find that mix. So we're super passionate

about endurance athletics and helping endurance athletes. And especially

emery on the product side and on the marketing side, like there's a

gift in there to do that at a very high level. And then of course you do those things well,

you get paid for it. And so it's like there's that cheesy quote, like if you love what you do,

you never have to work a day in your life. Super cheesy, but it does feel that way

in a lot of ways. And maybe to answer your other question around like, how do you stay aligned?

I would say this is popular and unpopular. I'll say it anyway because I can't not mention it,

but like we do share the same faith. And because of that, like we have a really similar value system

that we operate from. And one of those values is do unto others as you would have them do to you.

Right. And so like we've been aligned on that far before hyperlite started. And so I think it's

almost just unspoken that hey, if we're going to partner in a business, that's how we're going

to treat people. And we're going to give, give, give. And then you know, of course, answer

the result of focusing on giving. Like I do believe it comes back. It's not why you do it, but

that has been the case since day one. Right. And so I think just being aligned from like a core value

standpoint from the beginning, they've been super key. Like I'd say we're, you know, brothers and

faith first, friends second, and then business partner start, you know. And we as long as those

priorities are where they would do to be like this thing has, has worked out really, really well.

And then back to the passion piece, like what a big part of what's important to us is just being present.

And it is really fun for us to go to canyons and to go to what the Western states and to go to

the UTMB, like we just want to be there. Like being with you at TRE, being with you at

Black Canyon, like those are special moments. And they don't feel like work. Like we want to be

present. We want Alyssa and Max Hans and you know Emily, all the whole team to know, like we're

there for you. And when you do DNF, we're there for you. You know, because we've been there. And we

know what that feels like to an extent. We're not pro athletes, but we know what that feels like.

And we know what it feels like to have people be like, hey, like who cares? But we're here for you,

right? And so I think just being a line on those values of being present, doing onto others,

from the beginning, even before Hyperlite has just been super, super key. And because of that,

like we trust each other. We have moments where we run and like we have the conversation. Like it's

we had a conversation yesterday about this, right? Where we need to get on the same page,

but we trust that like our heart is one of one of one of trust for one another. And you know,

that we can sort through the details as long as we communicate. It's not much different than a

marriage. It's a very early relationship. Like keep an open line of communication. Believe the

best in each other. And you know, have a shared value system and you can pretty much work through

anything. And that's been the case so far. Yeah, that's good. And objectively, there are moments

where we've had to pause. Like you have to, you have all these ideas and you think you're doing

the right thing and just like wrap an idea when we came to the like realizing that there were

some very selfish components originally to the throwhouse and we paused and had to talk about them.

There are moments when like you said, like how do we check ourselves? They don't have to walk in

here and want to say, hey, do we need like 24 hours? Think about this or like, hey, real quick,

right? Before we send that email, like, is this the right thing? You know, and I think those are

those are important because the moment you start rushing and doing things that feel unnatural,

you just like gradually slip away from, you know, what you really thought you should do.

Yeah. I think people can one more thing is like people can confuse values with like personalities.

And I think like it's really important to say like values and principles are non-negotiable. Like

we have to be on the same page with those like we can't differ at all in our value system or

our principles, but we actually should celebrate a different in personalities or in different

sense strengths. Like I'm really not very, very different, right? And actually that diversity of

personalities and diversity of strengths is what makes a really beautiful team and makes us better

as a result, but we can't be diversified in our value system or principles of the whole thing.

Absolutely. Yes, I have been in situations where there's been too many ideators or there's been,

like there's not enough, okay, you have the ideator and then you have the person that gets

shit done. And if you don't have both of those, it's very hard. And so it seems like you two

have found a really good balance. How did you two become friends? I don't know if I've ever asked you

that. The old little town in McKinney, Texas, for me, my way of New Mexico,

we're in Santa Fe, to the plains of West Texas A&M, and division to football,

to have failed in a failed dream, to the old North Texas suburbs, and it started running a lot

and eventually my friend came from Seattle and we were the only two people who cared about

running really far. We're like really, really weird to people here, like we're in aliens to them,

you know, and so we have a friend in Charlie who lives here in McKinney and he had one alien friend

named Emory, and when the all the other alien friend moved from Seattle, he's like, hey, you guys

need to go meet and do your alien thing together, right? So that's as simple as I could put it,

we met and got along famously, right? You've been running long distance, I come from a

long distance through hiking backgrounds who had a really deep passion for the mountains,

pushing the mind, the body, but also came from places that were much more beautiful than McKinney,

and so we kind of shared this desire to find beauty and adventure in a place that most people

don't, and practically speaking, someone finally moved to McKinney that understood what

it meant when you say the words western states together, I mean, no joke, I'm just running

this for many years, and now somebody can even talk about that race with me, I mean, it was so

really cool, and at that point he had been doing the longer distances and I hadn't yet, so

it was cool to see somebody else in a similar stage of life who was pushing longer distances,

but also doing so within the context of the family, and a job, and so he had a really inspiring

read-up, kind of try my hand at it, and I think ever since we've sort of, sort of iron sharp

and siren, and it's been cool to see how it's evolved, and now there's a business going

to it as well, which has been, yeah, joy. Love it. Yeah. What are you two most excited about

for the future of trail running? Just dropping things on you. That's a good question.

Well, I do, I love the professionalization of the sport, and how we're seen like the

side-side of it, being pushed forward at a pace that, you know, I don't think we've seen until

the last few years, but I do hope that trail never loses its sort of dirtbag ethos at the same time,

right? Like, I think I love cycling, doing me wrong, and I've done a triathlon, but I do think

there's sort of this end road running, but I do think that trail does not quite have this

pretentious spirit that some of those other forms of endurance have. I think it's a very welcoming

sport, and I hope that it never loses that, right? And so I do love to see the progression. I

love to see these times that we've never thought whatever, you know, be beaten on a basically

annual basis at this point, and I love to see the high-carb and all the all the science side

being pushed forward, but I just don't want to lose the ethos that we have of just being a welcoming

sport that's not pretentious, and, you know, come as you are, right? And feel like, you know,

you don't even know all these unspoken hand signals that some of these other parts

have and can make people feel intimidated, right? Yeah, I just wrote the miss out. I just did

the miss out though, 50 came Friday, 106 mile gravel ride and still water on a Saturday, and I did

objectively well on the ride, but I didn't know until the ride that there are hand signals to

drink water, you know, so not very, but if you know they get mad because I don't throw the hand

signal because I'm slowing down and get some water, you know. Yeah, I think what excites me is that

so growth is fun. Growth can also foster very insular thinking, where everything ends up looking

the same, sounding the same, and being the same, and what's really cool to me is to watch the growth

happen, but people still be curious and questioned things. So for example, like as the sport grows,

do you hear murmurings of like, hey, like is Canyon really the best qualifier? Hey, like, does it

make a lot of sense that like we have Hevelina and Black Canyon? Hey, like, is there really an

appropriate relationship between these sponsors because of this event over here? Um, hey, like,

are we just throwing carbon plates and shoes because we like because the world's running

is doing it. So like my favorite thing is the ash, I think it's the vagabond,

pirate dirt bag, rebel culture inside a troll running that you can never take out that no matter

how big it grows, I'm watching people question it, I'm watching people be curious, and when people

are curious enough, you have a brand like a satisfied pop up and change the face. You know,

that's what's really fun for me is to just not watch the Walmart monopolizing of it have

like a completely insular effect that the rebellious nature of it is still producing good

curiosity, and I love that super exciting. Yeah, one of their interesting things is like 10 years

ago a shoe brand could semi make a trail runner treats come true, right? They could have a shoe brand,

but they also still need to have a job, right? Except for maybe two or three or four five athletes.

Now, basically shoe brands are allowing several athletes to fully pursue their dream of running

full time, but what we're going to see as the sport evolves and becomes more popular is that's not

going to be only shoe brands that are helping athletes do this thing full time and follow their dreams.

And so you're going to start to see, I think, endemic brands within the space have the budgets

because of the growth to be able to fully support athletes. It's not going to be 100%

relying on shoe brands, I don't think, in three, five, 10 years, and probably even some nonendemic

brands as well who will move into the space as this continues to grow. That'll help athletes

pursue this full time. So we're about to see a shift from this notion that it has to be a shoe brand

to other types of brands, both endemic and nonendemic. So that'll be interesting.

Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I

think, gosh, I think before, I mean, it's just insane to me when I signed my on contract three

years ago, what contracts were and what they are now. It's wild where it's like, what was a good

contract three years ago? It isn't even on the radar anymore. It is blood sweat and tears

for 20, 25 hours a week to be able to be supported and be able to do this full time and not worry

about working another job, I think, is what you deserve. And I'm excited to see all that hard

and work pay off for folks like yourself and so on. Thank you. Yeah, and I mean, I really hope.

I think with trail running, there's just always an element. And I think this is the most beautiful

thing of like, you're just going to eat shit at some point. Like, that's a good thing. Like,

that's what makes the dirt bag the fun part where it's like, it is so unglamorous on so many levels

and that's the fun part. Yeah, when it sucks, it's when it doesn't suck. It's one of my favorite

models. Wait, I love that. It's when it doesn't suck. It's when my favorite monster is it all,

it has done good things for my life and also very bad punishing. Yeah, so boring, okay.

Yeah, well, I've pretty much never taken this off, but the motto of hurt and I have it on a bracelet

is we wouldn't want it to be easy. So very similar sentiment. Yeah, yeah, I'm big.

I'm sorry when Alyssa sent us an Instagram message like a year ago. Was it a year ago now?

When you first reached out? Yeah, it was like, dude, because I was in Italy for Laverado and I

listened to your podcast was like, I got a send of a message. Yeah, you sent us a message and

said that you still had your new TMB bracelet or yeah, bracelet on from the year before as a reminder

for what you were working towards. And I'm like, we need to talk to Alyssa. We had been following

for a bit, especially after her, but I was like, okay, that fire, like you can't make that up.

So that was, yeah, you and your bracelets. I love bracelets. Yeah, but what's cool about this one,

the we wouldn't want to be easy is my friend who pays me for my first hurt made it for me and

that my time is engraved on the inside. And it's it's got so many, and I mean this lovingly,

but like dense and scratches and cuts and like, it's been with me on so many journeys. It's kind of

like a race bib and all of that I think shows the process where it's like, yeah, we don't come out

of this unscathed nor do we want to. That's all part of the story, which is yeah, what sucks is when

it doesn't suck. That's the fun part. Awesome. Well, anything else you want to leave, like I've

written down multiple things. Like I said, they were going up on the wall of Post-it notes. So thank

you for that. Anything else you can leave the listeners with. I got to get a better background.

Finn has such a swaggy background. So does Joe. And I just have, yeah, well, we'll get there.

At least even like an official microphone, you know, makes me like real fish.

I try. Yeah, the Post-it notes. I'll send you guys a picture after this. They face me so I can

look at it every day. Well, I'm doing some work. Cool. Yeah, this was a joy. It's always a joy talking

to you, Alyssa. I think that like, you know, one of my favorite parts at TRE was just hanging,

being at the bar, you know, we always say like we take a very long time to court athletes

and sign them. It's a very long process, but it's intentional. And it's like the sitter on the

campfire with a beer kind of litmus test. Like if you can't do that, we put them on the team. Although

we had 800 in the back. This is a fun little, this is a fun anecdote. Yeah, Hans lost it for us.

What the heck, Hans. So we did a relay race. It was what? Five teams or whatever. And you had four

people per relay. Each person had around an 800 around the bar, around the block, the bar,

whatever. And I think Emory started, okay, got us to come back first place. And then Alyssa went,

came back, we're still in first place. And then, you know, big Oath here, I go, you got

us. No managed to be in first place. And guess what? The closer of all people, Hans Troyer,

one of the fastest runners in the world here. And of course, we're going to win, right? Of course,

we're going to win. Pass to the Tom to Hans. He's got like a hundred meter lead. Next, you know,

he comes back around the block. We think we're going to win. And Hans is nowhere to be seen. We lose.

We lose. He lets the dude ask him and win this 800 meter race. But the interesting thing,

interesting thing is that Hans showed discipline in that moment to like, it was probably against all

of his instincts, letting somebody pass. Oh, oh, what you're percent. And no, but like people don't

realize how dialed that guy is, right? And the discipline for somebody of that caliber to let

somebody random pass him and lose the race is like, honestly, as impressive to me as like,

the Hans is, you know, his fire, his drive, his training to be able to like, in that moment,

have that discipline. So random anecdote, but that was a fun night. And Hans is impressive,

not just for what he does, but also for his ability to like, let somebody pass and lose the

flippant race. Also, I wasn't too mad though, because if we were to want, we had to run another

800 thousand jeans. So, well, I was going to say two things. Hans showed way more discipline

than I did, because I shouldn't have done that. My hamstring was not great. And it did not help it.

So Hans, I think I'm like seven years older than Hans. There's six years. Hans showed way

more discipline than I did in that moment. Second of all, the fact that you crushed that in jeans. And

like, you guys, you guys switched belts. Yeah, I was going to say you all had, like, not only pass

the baton, but pass the belts to keep the pants up. So that was, yeah, such a great night.

Loved it. And yeah, I was impressed as well with pulling back, because that is discipline is,

like, when I see over and over with great athletes, is you do your hard days hard,

and you're easy days easy, and you do not mess with that. You know when to go.

People celebrate the 130 and 40 mile weeks, and you know, at times, there's a time and place for that.

But that's not to be celebrated if that, you know, brings somebody to burn out or injury, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, there's a great, uh, Steve Magnus quote, you guys, do you listen to

excellence actually? Great podcast. You would love it. But there is a great quote. This is

focus on winning the moments, the move, the needle. That's up on my wall. Yeah. That's a great one.

Yeah. I'll send the podcast. And he has a great Instagram where he just posts kind of like

case studies, which is awesome. So I think you do it. Enjoy it.

So good to see you. Thanks for bringing us back on. Yeah. This was a blast. Thanks so much

for coming on and, uh, we'll talk if you soon. That sounds good. Thanks, Alyssa. Cheers.