Hour 1 - Would You Give Your Life for Another?

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Welcome in. The Wednesday edition Clay and Bach appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We have got a lot to discuss the midterm convention in Dallas, Texas going on with President Trump speaking tonight. I am sure we will touch on that to a certain extent. There are many stories out there that we will be following, but the Lindsey Clancy story now that the jurors have spoken is even worse than we might have anticipated. I didn't expect to hear from the Lindsey Clancy jurors who believe that she was not guilty by reason of insanity. I didn't expect that they would be a particularly likable group or a particularly rational group, but back as the jurors have begun to speak and we have a bunch of cuts

1:00of that if you have not already heard. I was just on Fox News with Harris Faulkner and I said very much what I usually have said on this program, which is I think Lindsey Clancy should be in prison for the rest of her life. And we talked about strict liability and how I think a parent killing her kids is the worst thing that can happen and I immediately got an email from Suz that I thought you would appreciate. Buck, you are a disgusting man. When was your last period? When did you deliver a baby? A lawyer? Don't think so. A clickbait attention seeker and but ugly. That is from Suz that just came into my email inbox. Thank you, Suz. I hope you're also a Clay Buck listener as well as a Fox News viewer. But these if you want to adopt this from a positive perspective, buckle me start with this. Can you imagine the poor bastard who got screamed at for six straight days by these crazy women who were convinced that

2:07Lindsey Clancy should not be held accountable? Can you imagine being in that jury room for six days? I will play some of the cuts. What you are seeing is there were actually several people on the jury who initially believed that she was guilty, but they succumbed to the power of the brow beating. And as a result, they ended up changing their opinions, but this brave soul who was willing to stand up against all of these things and arrows for six straight days to avoid her being found not guilty. Here is some of these jurors speaking out. This is Kelly Farina who is angry. He had the hardest time getting over the fact that Lindsey viciously killed her children. Do you think? Do you think maybe that is a significant part of this case here's cut one? I'm not sure if a rogue is the right word to, but every one of us in the hours of a frustration would get up and walk the room.

3:11Because you just couldn't sit anymore. And would all go out of the cart with the exhibits. I think got up to the cart once very briefly and went back to a seat. He would not interact with us and try to understand. We read to him on numerous occasions the definition of a reasonable doubt from Jack Sullivan's instruction. He actually said one day in the end, why don't we have the judge come in and read it again? And we were like, no, we have it in front of us. We don't need that. And we would highlight it. And so and so, this is the definition of a reasonable doubt. But he had the hardest time getting off the fact that Lindsey viciously killed her children. That last line clay is astonishing because it actually summarizes everything. Who is this crazy man who just was so upset about the premeditated brutal murder of three defenseless children by their own mother?

4:17That's the question that she is asking. She is mad at the man. She has no rage. It seems at all. In fact, nothing but sympathy, perhaps even a degree of solidarity with Lindsey Clancy. Now these jurors, let's just for a moment on the less serious side of things. Yes, they look sound and think exactly the way that we all knew they did before we saw a single one of them emerge from this jury pool. From the accents straight out of the depotted down to which we'd expect Massachusetts. But all the way down to the way that they seem to be a lifetime like marble red smoking, spinsters, liberals. The whole thing clay is exactly as the conservative commentary it. And I would just say the rational same commentary had assumed it would be this whole time.

5:17And it also goes to what a hero this one guy is. I've also never really seen people before in a jury trying so hard to nullify a fellow juror. Let's just be clear. This is what I was saying clay when the verdict came down. There's no misconduct here. They keep saying, well, reasonable doubt. We explained what reasonable doubt is. The women on the jury sound like fouchy to me. And I say, well, no, he's entitled to his vote, if you will, on what is and what is not reasonable doubt. You don't get to the harpy mob in that room does not get to just say do what we want. And that's very apparent from the interviews that they've given. And the analysis that you get from the people in the media on this too, they keep saying, well, mental illness has been around for over the mental illness defense and sanity defense been around a long time. People historically who have used the insanity defense in cases like this were crazy people for a long like everyone knew that they were crazy for a long time.

6:25And it was known that they would be considered crazy afterwards. And yet here with Lindsey Clancy, we're supposed to think that she had a momentary triple homicide moment and now she's good. That's crazy. Yes. And again, the fact that so many women, and I read that email because I went off on Fox News about this. And I've been talking about it a lot on this program. We got an angry women calling in and writing. It really is OJ for white women. And I think much as the OJ Simpson case held up a mirror to society and many of us recoiled from what it showed, which was there's a substantial percentage of black people that were willing to let OJ Simpson off because they saw it as some sort of connection of an identity. The referendum on racism. It was a referendum on racism. And it was payback actually was the word that you were hearing a lot played payback.

7:25That's right. And I mean, in fact, when the OJ Simpson verdict came down, a couple of different jurors did a black power sign as if, oh, now we're getting real justice in America. The OJ brutally murdered a random later and his ex wife and was found not guilty and had no consequences despite overwhelming evidence that he did it. But the OJ case had far more reasonable doubt than the Lindsey Clancy case does. We're not even disputing whether she murdered her three kids in cold blood. They're just saying that she was insane. And I think what you're seeing is a lot of men are looking at the reflection that is showing us of women. And they are saying, my goodness, their psychology right now is darker than we even anticipated or understood. I think what we see with a lot of these with these female jurors so far. And I think it would be the same thing with the rest of them as they come out.

8:28I wonder as a sidebar here, I wonder if the other two guys, not the hero, the other two guys were just so hectic. So yes, I would completely beleaguered. I don't think that they're, you know, Lindsey Clancy pink t-shirt guys. They could be those are rare. That's a rare thing. You see the women outside the courthouse that are screeching in support of her that we're doing that. You really don't see guys doing that. Maybe a guy brought there by his crazy wife because he's, you know, just hanging on by a thread. But back to the women that we see here, it is, I think apparent to people observing this case that there is a mindset in America. And this is the broader theme. This isn't just about some women in Massachusetts or one case or one there is a subset the same way there was with the OJ case. Clay, which I think is a very important comparison. The OJ case was a super high profile. People forget also it was really the first like televised true crime obsession, national media.

9:29It was the biggest news story in the world for a while for months. Remember to long that trial went on. It really was people forget. Buck that also remember when the they put the war on CNN and that made CNN the first goal for. Yeah, this was the first time that you could put a trial on television all day and be able to utilize 24 hour news networks to propel an narrative. It was a different era. There had been big crimes and big trials before, but never before had there been obsession. 24 seven televised news. Every single witness became famous and many of them are still famous. Kato Kaelin was just the house guest of OJ Simpson. He became incredibly famous. He has a podcast now. I think he follows both of us on Twitter by the way. He's actually right wing. We should get him on judge Lance Edo became remember they had the dancing Edo's back in the day on J. Lino. If I remember correctly, I mean it was a social world phenomenon that had an occurred before.

10:29So so here, but here's the takeaway that people had from that. And we're going to have a friend and Colter on a thing tomorrow and she was the one that came up with this initial phrase and I like to credit people for when they have something that's really. She said that the white guilt bank was closed after people saw. And I saw this in my school. A lot of their fellow black Americans running around cheering not solemnly declaring we do believe there was reason without in this case. And we're very sorry for the family of Nicole Brown. And by the way, Ron Goldman who just was there. Yes, who just was there. I mean, that was the most powerful thing in the OJ series. It was actually a good series. Whatever it was when when Ron's parents were able to speak to Marsha Clark and Ron's dad. I mean, that really kind of haunted me because that never came through. That this guy was just like returning her glasses to I mean, you just happened to be in the wrong place the wrong time. He got his head almost cut off by this maniac. But Clay, the real sentiment from black America then and I got and this is a generalization. There were black Americans who were horrified by this. You don't you know, I know we have we have a robust black audience listens to us right now. And they are with us and they get it and we're all together on the Constitution and America and everything else.

11:42But there were a lot of black people at the time. Who's attitude was if two white people have to get their next, you know, if they get their heads basically cut off by OJ Simpson to have a conversation about racism. It's worth it. That was really the tone. That was the feeling. If we get to have now our national moment where we talk about racism. Those people, their deaths were, you know, sacrifices they'll make to the altar. This is where the really chilling but true Lindsey Clancy thing comes in. There are a lot of women who seem to take the who are taking the opinion here that if three young children had to be brutally strangled death by their mother. So we all understand how serious postpartum is worth it. That is their attitude. That is what they are expressing and showing outside of that courthouse and it is disgusting and it is insane. Let me also play this cut for you, Buck. This is the same juror. She says the prosecution didn't even have any character witnesses talking about Lindsey being a bad mother. She strangled her children to death.

12:50I look at some of this. I say, well, they even know that she was a bad mother. I would submit if you commit triple murder. That makes you a bad mom, right? Maybe sometimes you forget about soccer practice and you can be a good mom. And we can debate exactly what good versus bad mom conduct. The 9-11 hijackers, other than running the planes into the buildings, they were going to strip clubs. They seemed like pretty normal dudes until they tried to kill thousands or did kill thousands of people. There were some of the year religious scholars. That was what they said when the one of the 9-11 hijackers died. That was Al Baghdaddi when he got killed in your times and not his epitaph, what do you call it? His obituary. Obituary, thank you. Here is one cut. Look, they're not even talking about the fact that she was a bad mom. They can't even prove that, other than the murder she was great. How was the play Mrs. Lincoln, other than cut two? I just found it to be harsh, so very, very harsh. I mean, again, we were talking with ourselves here, but the fact that they had no character witnesses to, and we got to Lindsay of being a bad mother.

14:04I mean, right out of the gate, it's like you're presenting all these medical professionals, but nobody's presenting for the prosecution. A woman, a mother of three children. So I found it to be biased right out of the gate. She murdered them with an exercise band buck. Of course, it's going to be biased out of the gate against the murder. Like the prosecution didn't present any character witnesses to show as she was a bad mom. They don't have to. She killed her three kids. Whatever your standard is on motherhood, that is a failure. Some of y'all have lost your minds. I just, I don't even, I don't want to check by email. I want to share you real quickly. Yes. We have not gotten a single one man in this audience. Email call, talk anything, disagreeing with us. Not one.

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16:0934.99 a month after that unlimited data unlimited text and calls. That's a phenomenal value. If you're paying more than 34.99 a month, you're paying too much. That's pure talk. Five star US customer service pound two five zero say Clayin Buck. That's pound two five zero say Clayin Buck. Life learn and hang with the guys play it buck preset on the I hard at welcome back here to play and buck. I'm going to hold we got some calls coming in clay. I don't want to give any of them short shrips. So we can do them on the flip side here and have a conversation with people about this. I think this is still certainly the the subject that has people the most passionate right now on one side or the other in the news cycle. I think people are finding themselves kind of shocked at the opinions that they don't agree with on this. Another thing Clay that you should speak to or that I'm going to ask you to speak to is this stuff about the the women on the Lindsey Clancy jury.

17:16Finding Kevin Kevin Reddington so like charming and whimsical and fantastic like he's there for their entertainment. This is the same attorney I might add who said publicly. He's on TV that he thought Donald Trump should consider a pardon which is that just meant to take the jury pool further by suggesting that that could even be under consideration. I mean what what is that maneuver of saying Trump won't do it couldn't do it and there's not even a verdict. So why would we go there Clay so the only thing I can say charitable to him is he is hearing discussions that there might be federal charges brought. That's the only thing I can think of. Well I mean that would be an interesting one that's something that I haven't even considered back in the day having the right gear at home and severe weather hits might have been flashlights and batteries today rapid radios has to be part of your preparedness kit rapid radios are rugged emergency communication devices built for the moments that matter most operating over nationwide L.T. networks they deliver instant push to talk communication coast to coast so you can check in with everyone at once engineered to withstand extreme conditions these waterproof radios have long battery life clear audio and dependable range.

18:29Whether coordinating with neighbors or checking on family states away connection is instantaneous rapid radios are turned key right out of the box no contracts no setup the new standard in emergency and operational readiness for a limited time going to rapid radios dot com you'll get up to 60% off and free shipping from Michigan add code buck and get an extra 5% off they're super handy to have for all kinds of things but you got to have them to be prepared for when the lights go out and things get tough rapid radios dot com for 60% off and we're going to be able to do that. We've got loaded lines 80282 2882. I see right now looking at my quad box when I was just on with Harris Faulkner the lead story on Fox News Travis hold out Clancy jury is a hero. I'm fine with that headline you see your name on the screen you're hoping that the next quote right after it is not going to be claims DUI was unjustified you know or or something negative like the juror he is a hero who wanted to convince glitzy Clancy I'm okay with that head.

19:36This is a headline Clay Travis anti murder and defends children. Yes. That's what I can role place to be. All right we got a bunch of calls I'm going to get to them and talk backs and everything else but I wanted to hit you with this I saw this coming down. Pull should Lindsey Clancy be found guilty by political party now I would like to see it by gender to the cross tabs on gender here republicans say by a 61 to 13 margin Lindsey Clancy should have been found guilty of murder 61 to 13 with people others. Not sure not following the case so 61 13 that's not about right to you buck 61 13 I mean that doesn't stand out to me as stunning. Democryst. 61 13 and then there was just everyone else had no opinion was the one I was like to use probably about the so that they don't have only 13% of Republicans thinking that she should have been found not guilty that I would have thought the other

20:38number would be a little higher quite honestly on the 60 something person I would have thought is more like 80 but yes within the realm for sure by the way nation wide 46% guilty 21% not guilty so and then again that would be what the math a lot of people not necessarily that plugged in would be my guess on having an opinion on this Democrats 34 to 31 guilty nearly 50 50 on is Lindsey Clancy guilty of murder for strangling her children why are Democrats the party of psychotic killers like if someone's going to defend a psychotic killer in general and try to it's always going to be overwhelmingly Democrats who like if there's a monster in our society if somebody has been possessed by the demonic and done the worst possible thing you're going to find more Democrats are like he's not that bad where she's not that bad I think I mean in a dark way I can give you two hypotheses one is this is what happens when you don't believe in personal

21:44responsibility it extends across all facets of life and so you're willing to accept excuses even for the most heinous of of behaviors that's probably the most likely I think hypothesis for what's going on the second one is Democrats are willing to I think extend empathy this is a more favorable I think explanation two things that are unwilling or unjustifiable for your empathy in other words they are such like they are willing to see a positive and even the worst thing well so they will extend their empathy so I think this is this goes to the toxic or suicidal empathy concept which I would say clay what you have with a lot of these Democrats is that they they as a virtue signal meaning as a as an act of personal branding and personal oh I'm such a good person idea they will extend excessive and and and

22:55performative sympathy empathy whatever to the worst possible people in the worst possible situations not because they really care about that person and the victims of that person are all the rest of it but because they consider round with their with their clatch of fellow Lindsey clancy juror types and in between knitting and you know fashion and winchimes together are going to sit there and say hey you know what we're such good people we even support Lindsey clancy I think there's also darker elements of foot here buck one is basically some Democrats have bought into the idea that children are the personal possession of the murder of the mother yes and if she wants to murder them that's her right yes that's scary that's dark here's another dark thought I think that and this probably going to be one that that really gets people fired up I think we have such a medicated society I think that there are an evil is so in

24:00the end of the pandemic across much of life I think there's lots of moms that have thought about killing their kids and I think one reason they are empathetic for Lindsey clancy is because they think in the back of their life I think that's fine but for something that could have been me I think a lot of men find that very difficult to even comprehend you're a new dad buck at no point in my life have I ever thought anything like that as a father and so I think that's fine as every parent does about people doing things to my children now that doesn't mean I haven't gotten frustrated and been like oh my goodness you you know morons I can't believe you just did this what are you thinking like the normal parts of being a parent I think every parent has experience I see this Lindsey clancy case and I think on some level how many of these women that are showing up to cheer her have all like I mean we talked about this a little bit but I would echo it if my son were dating a girl who was a super Lindsey Clancy supporter I would tell her to break up with her yeah I would have

25:09this is a not somebody that does the you know separate people by their views and yeah I'm gonna be pick based on some kind of litmus test I do think you want shared value so there is there you know it's usually I would say not on one specific thing but on values you do have to have a line that kind of a group a O C on that actually on values when it comes to dating you have to have alignment she said she would not date a conservative what you just said by the way about about the opinion of of women is the that is you know that a lot of women have that maybe the single darkest and bleakest thing that we've ever considered on the show I just I mean it is dark but I just look at it I mean most people who have empathy usually the reason why there is an empathy that is allowed to be in some way you know captivated or taken and captured is because there is some centilla of your brain that has felt an emotion or an experience that is similar to what that this is where the solidarity thing starts to creep up and you say that there are a lot of these women who keep saying you don't understand

26:12postpartum and this you don't understand and this why I brought up the PTSD issue for because guess what ladies you don't understand what it is to be in combat and see people blown apart in front of you who were your your closest friends in the whole world and you know and yet you can sit on jury of somebody will pass it under you see MJ you'd have to be in the military but the point is no one says you're not allowed to have an opinion about what some of my way they wouldn't be under you see MJ if they came back with PTSD and their civilian they would just be a civilian so no one would say to them you can have an opinion on what a veteran and there have been these cases to be clear there rare but there have been cases where veteran has gone into basically a PTSD and dose induced psychosis and they go to prison and work at executed generally if anything it can be used as a mitigating now a mitigating factor in sentencing is different than you're not guilty it's not your fault you didn't do a bad thing here it's we're not going to punish you as severely because you weren't as guilty this gets into your whole mens rea concept or anything else but can I just have one thing that's less bleak just just I just want to say this your dad your dad of three boys you know I I'm a dad of one boy and I you know we're hoping to have more boys or girls and I would just say

27:25I would like to think play that under fire I would give my life for a for a fellow soldier if I never serve in the military as CIA took some minimal risks and were minimal risks and war zones with the CIA I don't ever pretend like it was more than that but I tried to serve in the way that I could I'd like to think that I would step up for a fellow soldier I'd like I'd like to believe that I mean I would say I would but you don't know until you're in that moment would you do it I would feel also like I would step up if there were an active shooter situation I can see all carries in times of Miami I'm handy with a pistol I've trained a lot now I'd like to think that I would step up and put myself in harm's way to save other people I have zero doubt in my mind that I would give my life to protect my son yeah it's not a brag it's not it's not boasting all the dads listening you know exactly what I'm talking about I would give my life to protect my son without maybe just automatically I mean and buck even and I can't say the other things are automatic I'd like to think that I would step up but you know you don't know

28:27Courage and but it's different as a dad I would do it instantaneously nothing twice and you know I know you feel the same way yeah 100% And and I think that's why so many men just look at this and say I can't believe this is the mirror that we are seeing of what women think I would like to say I gave you the Republican Democrat break down on Lindsey Clancy I'd like to see the men women Because I think men it would be 95% guilty I think women it's like 50 50 and that's dark because based on these numbers let me also tell you something else Everybody out there says you don't know what it's like the woman that sent me the angry email after the Fox News hit you don't know what it's like to be a woman you don't it's all true The entire basis of having a jury of your peers is that you don't have to be the exact same as the person to understand what justice is The entire reason why lady justice is blind and has the scales of justice is because you're supposed to be able to render justice without looking at who the individual is and seeing him or her as a reflection of you that's not justice that's just you choosing to treat someone differently based on your own life experience which is actually the opposite of what justice should be so

29:49Everybody out there who's trying to argue oh you get men can't even make a decision here's the concern and we'll get some of these calls here My concern buck is I don't think there's a jury in Massachusetts that can convicted this woman because I don't think there's a jury of women that will Convictor in Massachusetts. I think you could convicted her in Alabama. I think you could convicted her in Tennessee, Florida, Texas Utah. I think there's lots of places out there red states where you would get a conviction I'm not sure you could convicted her anywhere in a blue state in America right now And I'll say something thought I gotta tell you something and just to draw a political inference out of this I know people say oh, it's a million miles away in terms of politics and when it's gonna happen everything else There's may make people think a little bit differently and I mean Democrats May think a little bit differently about having a woman at the top of the ticket This is my wife's argument buck I didn't really think about it till she started making the argument my sons

30:50Looking at the the tiktok's defending Lindsey Clancy for the younger people out there This is the worst look I think possible for women from a male perspective looking at women and Those jurors I mean they look exactly like what you and I if we sketched out what the jurors would look like who do not Want to have Lindsey Clancy held accountable? It would be a bunch of postman appausal left-wing women That's what it was at least that's who speak it so far and they sound just like what you would expect them to sound They are the they are the indoctrinated ultra-affeminist generation That believe these lies made terrible choices for themselves. Yes, I'm generalizing, but these generalizations exist for a reason And now they want to see that ideology in some way indicated And and that's this the only way that I can anyway we'll take your calls on this and we had somebody who is a guy who actually wanted to call and disagree with us and say it was a medical professional So please call back we would like to have that conversation

31:52We've only had women disagreeing with art. By the way, we have a lot of women agree with us to be clear I would think in our audience. What do you think is the female agreement with the line that you and I share on this? I would say 60 40 in our favor. I was gonna say 75 25 I think in this audience and this audience is what 75% male It's like a hundred percent male agreement and I would say probably 75 25 women And you may be right it may be closer to 60 40, but let's let's take any of the if you're a guy who wants to disagree with us Please Please call in and you can hand in your man card as soon as producer Greg picks up the phone All right every scam call every scam text every sketchy email with your name attached each one starts with the same way Somebody found you your phone number sitting on data broker sites right now shows your home address age and even the names of your family members It's searchable and it's for sale scammers get access to this stuff easily and then You're a target every scam starts with this stuff. How do you work with how do you work against it in cogniz in cogniz makes this information online

32:55Disappear online service that helps you remove your name and info from Databases of hundreds of data brokers clay and I both are on on cogniz because of this we love our privacy We hate spam calls and we certainly hate scammers and they use we use in cogniz to contact hundreds of these online sites and legally Force them to remove your information and when new brokers pop up in cogniz finds those two they can't scam you if they can't find you Right now get 60% off with an in cogniz with in cogniz.com slash buck that spelled I N C O G N I in cogniz.com slash buck take your privacy back in cogniz.com slash buck for 60% off Level up your brain and balance out your day with the right amount of information and entertainment clay Travis and bucks Extend on the IHRT radio app or wherever you get your podcasts Welcome back in to clay and buck Getting lit up on this one lot of calls a lot of talkbacks. Let's do it. Let's do this um

33:55Uh Alan in Kentucky. We got a guy who wants to weigh in on this with a little bit of a different take what's going on Alan Yeah, so I grew up with two parents that are both paranoid skis frank Um, and so you know for me like I can see an argument from both sides, you know, was she overmedicated Um, very possibly, you know, that helped contribute things maybe Um, but on the flip side like you also have to realize she was a nurse, you know, so she sort of knows like What to do what to say what to you know sort of like Look at and different things and in what to sort of nuance as far as You know What do I need to do in order to make myself look like I was mentally unstable or mentally insane when I did this act Alan, what would you what would you have voted if you were on the jury I would have voted for the compromised you know manslaughter

34:58I would have said you know, she's guilty of manslaughter because there was too many factors in both Ways for me to say yes, she's totally guilty guilty of like You know, Merwin, you know, but yet you know, there wasn't enough on the flip side to say hey, she's totally not guilty and totally off the hook Thank you for the call um, I I just We would eliminate all of this discussion. There's lots of state legislatures Legislate doors who listen to us Make murder of children a strict liability crime If you murder children your mental state doesn't matter period That seems like a very rational thing to do in response to this so that the debate isn't oh, what's her mental capacity There's no denying she did it a Rudy in Indiana with an interesting take uh Rudy fire away Yeah, I want to put a plug in for the movie before we get started on 12 angry men back in the 1950s

36:04Get in plastic, but it was the other way around where 11 wanted to convict and one held out anyways um, I I have to I have to wonder um if The prosecutor did an injustice to society by not holding out or even split 5050 Um, we'll never know if the other two male uh jurors Yeah, you're We're coming up but you're asking a good question Rudy. This was nine women three men Now jury selection oftentimes is a random chance and you only get so many strikes I'll look up during the break buck what the rules are of Massachusetts jury selection Because I do think that matters tremendously here. What do you