How Can I Rebuild Trust After a Gambling Addiction?

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I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Watchoff, number one best selling author and Ramsey personality

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Chris is going to start us off in Chicago.

Hey Chris, how are you?

I'm doing well.

Good.

What's up?

So, about 12 years ago, I used gambling as a coping mechanism and what was a social

thing became an addiction.

After about 10 years, I realized that, or after two years, I realized the trouble I was

in and I tried to fix it on my own.

I didn't go particularly well.

My wife discovered my gambling about eight years ago, so two years after that and I did

do the work.

It was problematic and absolutely brutal situation for her to be in because all the, as you

know, my confession took the load off of me, but I just put it squarely on her shoulders.

Now, I did the work.

I was already in the process of wanting to do, undo what I had done.

I just wasn't at the place where I trusted the Lord to help me save my family.

And so I didn't confess it to her.

When it finally came out, I did the work.

I spent a year and a half paid off all the debt I put.

A significant sum and a savings account that she only had control over therapy every

week, GA.

And it got to a point where even my therapist said, you know, I think you're in a good place

with a gambling.

I don't think you need my therapy for that, but I'm willing to help you with my marriage.

And so what has happened is I've regained the trust in the financial aspect of things.

And now, you know, I have kind of controlled my money.

We have two separate accounts.

But what has happened is the damage that was done to the relationship has just put up

such a significant wall that the things I now want to do with a giving and just being

a steward with grace that God has given me in my finances are everything on that aspect

is completely separate.

If I try to bring her into some of that of what I am doing or how I'm investing or saving

or giving her response will be do what you want with your money.

And so for the sake of peace in our household, that that is not something I'm in a demand

of her.

So it's been about seven years.

You've been driving clean.

You've been 70.

Wow.

Yes.

Okay.

Are y'all seeing a marriage counselor?

She we tried it.

We've tried it a couple times and she absolutely doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

So I understand that until the Lord softens her heart towards me that that's not something

I can I can't change her.

So what I'm trying to figure out is without imposing on her and the resistance to any

type of reconciliation in our marriage right now, how can I, I'm not sure how to proceed

with some of the things that you know, the only that we have is our house.

Well, it's hard to proceed with a life when you don't have a marriage in where you have

a roommate.

Oh, absolutely.

And that's that it's hard to it's hard to visualize a future, a unified future when there's

not a unified current and so you know, and and so I mean, you're the language that you're

using around this is all correct.

If if what you're really acting out follows the conversation that we've been having with

you for the last four minutes, it's all very clear.

Are there kids?

Two.

How old are they?

Two young boys.

I'll say preteen.

And you can answer as honestly as you can.

Is she only staying with you because of them?

No, the reason I think she's staying with me is then right now I am the bad guy, but

if she chose to divorce me, there would be some accountability from her family and things

like that that she would have to deal with.

So my point is she's not staying with you out of love for you.

She's staying with you for some ulterior reason.

Okay.

That's the point.

Yeah.

Obviously you're correct.

You can't make someone change what and obviously you're correct.

She has a reason to be pissed, but at some point it becomes more about her being pissed

than it does the actual thing that happened.

Right.

So like we went bankrupt.

I was 28 years old.

We had little babies and we lost everything because 100% of the real estate decisions were

being made by me.

I wasn't hiding anything.

It wasn't an addiction, but my wife lost confidence in my judgment with good reason.

Hello.

I was stupid.

Okay.

So she lost, you know, and so how do you regain that trust?

Well, steadiness, consistency and working at, okay, you know, anytime I walk near anything

that makes her feel like the phrase she feels like you're scheming and scamming again.

And I wasn't scheming or scamming, but it makes her feel like my risk meter is gone again

and she has a large risk meter.

So we have to really work together to make decisions in order for her, in order for our

decisions to stay in her comfort zone, especially in the early days today, completely different.

It's 30 years ago.

But seven years, there should be some progress on coming back to the table unless you've

given a reason for there not to be.

And what you're saying is it hasn't been absolutely and consistently moved away from all the

problems.

And so to invite her into all decisions and then and she refuses and I want you to look

at this with me.

So you have a comfort.

So you, you know, you don't ever think I'm going back to where I was before.

I understand the deception.

I understand the actual loss of the money.

And, you know, but at some point we've got to grow back together on this.

Otherwise, we've got real issues here.

And so I don't know.

That's something for a therapist to guide you and how much pressure you put on her to

do that.

But the bottom line is, Grace, this is not good for her.

Right.

She's got a bucket of acid in her guts and she's just boiling all the time.

And that's what lack of forgiveness does.

Now she should not trust you, except to the extent you are trust worthy.

Worthy.

Yeah.

But if you're sharing everything and she's got insight into all of it and we make sure

and I make the decisions together ever since that event, they doesn't make any decisions

to come home and say, look what I did.

We make the decisions together.

And if you're doing all of that and she's unwilling to join that, then that's the healing

on her part that hasn't taken place.

And I don't know how to force someone to do that or force a discussion about it.

I would turn that over to your therapist, sir.

I'm so sorry you guys have been through this.

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Brandon is in Mississippi.

Hi, Brandon. How are you doing?

Well, good. What's up?

Oh, I heard a question about helping a parents app.

So, uh, uh, uh, w1999 came in late due to the job that she was working and she has the money

but not able to pay all of it right now.

And if they were going to get a loan, it would be for the 25 taxes instead of the 24 taxes,

which she was trying to take care of right now.

And the question was, I know my parents, they won't try to pay me back.

I know they will try to pay me back, but I won't, you know,

the question to pay me back, but I was thinking about getting a loan to try to

assist them for the 24 taxes.

How much is due for the 24 taxes?

27 27 what?

1000 27,000.

Lord night.

Okay.

Yes.

And how much for 25?

Yeah, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about the 25, but she was trying to make sure and take care of the

27 now, because that is the most important thing, which is for 24.

What's, what else about their financial history?

Do, how much are they earning every, every month or every year, do you know?

Um, yes, so I was saying mother probably brings around 130.

Uh-huh.

Now father probably right at 90.

So there's no reason they shouldn't be paying their taxes.

Why is she not, she's not setting us odd money for $10.99 income?

So yes, she was paying them quarterly, um, but not enough.

It would happen.

Yes, not enough.

So that happened a late, a dope late $2.99 came in.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, so they had no, that's not what happened.

That would have to be some big.

The $2.99 came in and she knew the money had already come in.

So the money, the fact that she had this income is not a surprise.

That's bull crap.

You follow me?

You don't get a $10.99 for $100,000.

You didn't know it was coming.

Because you have the $100,000.

So this is what's scaring me is that this is going to go on and on and on and on and on.

We don't know if they've gone to the root of this and fixed it or not.

Because $10.99 just don't fly in the window without the money having already come a year before.

Is this a brand new business or has she been doing this for a while?

Um, every since she retired.

Okay.

Which was when?

Well, how about $3, $4?

Okay, so she's never paid her taxes, right?

What we're saying?

Yeah, I think this is compiling.

Yes, she has.

So $23, it's $23 from there is all fine.

It's just that you need to pay for that's where it started.

Well, but $25, you don't know what it is.

Tell me about your financial situation.

Um, I mean that myself.

Okay.

That's all I needed to know.

Okay, so and you said you were going to borrow the money.

The answer to your question is no, you don't borrow the money.

But let's help them anyway.

Let's figure out how we can help them and you can go back to them with some advice.

But you borrowing money for these people that make $210,000 in her out of control

is a really bad idea.

So no, I would not do that.

Not in a million years.

Now, should they borrow the money?

You mentioned that she had the money, but she can't get to it.

What's that mean?

So, um, other scenarios and situations came up.

That money that was set aside for those taxes had to be used for something else.

Well, that's pretty vague.

What?

Well, I would say, um, things that came up due to housing,

uh, things that they need to fix around the house.

Um, that's pretty much all the information I kind of got.

So, can't you help them?

But she doesn't have the money like in some account.

She just doesn't want to touch.

She spent the money to fix her kitchen or whatever, right?

Right.

No, it's not fair.

Okay.

So there's no money, they have no money.

Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah.

Do they have anything they could sell?

Do they have vehicles with payments or no payments?

Is there anything they could sell to get this money?

Um, I would say both vehicles have a payment, um,

nothing in my mind.

I just come off the top of the head and I could say it.

Okay.

If I were to sit down with them and I was their coach, Brandon,

here's what I would tell them, okay?

I would say you make $210,000 and you're completely out of control.

We've got to get your taxes set up and you,

those tax accounts are, once you set those money aside

out of your 10, 99 income for your quarterly estimates,

which you mentioned, it sounds like somebody knows what to do.

Uh, then that money is sacred.

You do not touch it and I don't care what comes up.

It's already spent.

You don't have it anymore.

You just have it in your name.

You have to forget you own that money.

And so nothing can come up.

Your little brother needs a car.

Toughies.

Nothing can come up.

Some eight, some friend calls and what's a medical bill paid.

Nothing.

You don't own this money anymore.

It's already tax money.

You have to quit even leaving it available emotionally.

This is me talking to your parents, okay?

So that this never, ever, ever, ever comes back again.

And then we need to work you out of debt with a budget,

put you on every dollar and you guys are going to start living on

way less than you make because you got a couple of stupid car

payments and you owe the KGB.

I mean the IRS $27,000 freaking dollars.

And so we're going to put you on a payment plan with the IRS

and they are the first debt you're going to pay off

and you're going to pay them off in less than 12 months.

You make $210,000.

You ought to be able to pay 30,000 off very, very quickly.

And just pay the IRS.

That's what I would do.

Would I go borrow money to pay the IRS?

No, I would not.

Not in this situation.

Because I want to make sure that at the core of this,

at the root that caused this problem,

that it goes away.

And you borrowing money to go get them out of this

when they make this kind of money and are this

disorganized and chaotic is really suicidal for you, sir.

Please do not do this.

Yeah, how long have you been listening to our show?

I actually learned from them that told me about you guys.

Okay, so that means you both have some sins beyond this, right?

And I want you to get serious about this.

If you've been listening to the show,

you know the things that we're teaching around here.

So I want to make sure that today, if we give you every dollar,

will you go on there and will you start

getting into the classes and every dollar

and let it teach you what to do next?

Yeah, I already have every dollar.

Okay, I will give it to you for your mom and dad.

Let's see if we can get them moving along.

But no, you knew for you called in here.

I wasn't going to tell you.

We weren't going to tell you to borrow money.

This is like,

and we certainly weren't going to borrow money for this.

This is like that scripture where the man looks in the mirror

and he walks away and immediately

forgets what he looks like.

If you listen to this stuff every day,

it's up to you to put it into practice.

It doesn't happen by osmosis.

It doesn't happen automatically.

You have to then go away

and do the things that we teach.

Otherwise, your life is not going to change.

Yeah, including when I went broke,

Larry Brickett used to say

that personal financial problems

are not the problem.

They're the symptom of something else going on.

So in this case, you don't have a tax problem.

You have an accounting problem because you didn't

set the money side to pay your taxes.

And then when you did, you went and did something stupid with it

instead of paying your taxes.

And so now you got yourself between you and the government,

which is a really horrible place to be for anybody.

None of us want to be there.

Certainly not.

These are not people with a sense of humor.

These are not people that are powerless.

They have lots of power to screw you over.

And they will.

So you need to get on, pay them a plan with them

and get them paid off

and never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever

touch your tax money for anything

ever again.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's gone.

It's already gone.

You just moved it in the account

and given it to him yet.

But it's already gone.

It's just like withholding.

It's gone.

Yeah.

I used to go in there

and every month I'd put move the taxes over.

I did not play games with that.

No, you got to do it every time you write a check.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show

where life happens.

One day someone's healthy.

They're working, providing for their family

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You know, we heard all the time

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a heart attack,

and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But there's another piece

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and that's long term disability insurance.

Yeah, it's important to understand

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Life insurance steps in when you die.

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So it replaces a large part of your income

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Market,

what's up?

What's up?

Hi, I do the half years ago,

I bought a car.

And it's a good car to the 2018 Corolla.

But I have a 16.5% interest on it.

and over half of my payments go only to interest.

I'm actually the co-signor on the car,

on the car and my mother is the main signor on the car

and I have had job and stability,

housing and stability over the years

and I'm just not putting my life together.

But currently, I haven't even been able

to make my February car payment.

So I also rely on this car, the source of income.

So I, what is your, my son, the car?

I would look for a different,

I would start looking for a different source of income.

That's not tied to this car.

My guess is you're doing some of the,

one of the delivery apps.

Yeah, I'm actually a lift driver.

I had a dead end job that I quit that,

but I got a new job that is a really good job,

but it just, it doesn't start for a couple more weeks

so they're going to want to know how you're going to be making

that the new good job.

About three to four thousand a year, it's,

I mean, a month, a month, I mean, sorry.

Month, I, I, I am a, a,

Solomon instructor and I'm contracting with a pool

that pays very well for their lesson.

Okay, and then what's, what do you,

oh, what's the total amount owed on this car?

I owe 16,200 and I originally paid 18,500.

Have you looked to see what it's worth?

If you looked on Kelly blue book,

have you looked to see what it's worth private sale?

Yes, it's worth 75 hundred.

Oh boy, what happened to it?

She can drive over.

Oh, yeah, that's true.

Yeah, on and off.

Oh gosh.

Okay, well, then you're only choice here.

You're, I mean, you're going to have to pay it off

because it's such a low value and you're going to have to work

quickly to do it.

Is it your only debt?

Definitely not.

I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up

dropping at a school due to mental health issues.

And I have about $25,000, $20,000 to $25,000

in personal loans and credit cards.

And then I haven't on, I don't even know how many,

thousands of dollars in medical debt.

I don't even like, you know,

so you're going to be doing, you'll be doing swim lessons

at this place.

How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool

to make 4,000 a month or is there a base pay?

Because I make, I'm going to be making about $30 to $40 an hour.

Still my question is yes.

Yeah, but are they going to work you 40 hours?

That's the plan.

But yeah, that's the problem is that it does depend on how many

clients they get that you get a lot of clients.

Yeah, I'd be looking really deeply into that first off

and my homework for you leaving this call is I would have

something else lined up that gives me the ability to work

because you don't know how many clients they're going to send

your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going

to fill up and you've got to get started on this debt ASAP.

Because here's the thing, if you default on another payment,

it's really going to mess with your mom.

I'm sure it already has, right?

Yeah, I feel bad for my mom and my mom does try to help

when she can, but she's already, she's a single mom

raising my teenage brother with special needs.

She's already strapped a lot.

What we've got to start with, let's go back to basics.

Before you do anything else with money,

you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing,

transportation, and utilities.

Do you pay rent?

I do, and I live in the smallest cheapest apartment

I could find here in Phoenix.

Perfect, so you pay the rent.

So you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store.

Stop, you pay rent, you go to the grocery store,

you get the car current.

Before you do anything, all the other debts can wait

till you pay rent, get the car current, get food on the table.

Before you do anything, you've got to bail

the basic foundation in your life,

and that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

Now, once you're current on the car,

then you can decide,

let's reach out to the student loan people,

let them know you need a hardship deferral,

and send them some of the paperwork

on some of the mental illness issues you've had,

and just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on

for a little while, while they wait around you,

do nothing you quit paying them for right now.

And then you get this book of business

at the swim lessons full as fast as you can,

and Jade's right, in the meantime, and even after,

I want you to work all the time,

because what you need to fix your whole life right now

is $16,000.

Yeah.

If you had $16,000 in this car payment was gone,

we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

Yeah, it feels like that car loan

is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my lunch.

Agreed. Agreed.

So we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for eight months.

And smack this thing in the head.

Okay.

But that means all you do is work, girl.

You just work all of it.

Yeah.

And it's not Uber.

Freaking Uber's making the car worse.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, you're putting me miles on,

you've destroyed the value of the car.

But if you could work 80 hours a week with swim lessons,

just put your fins on and go.

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, if you can't get a bunch of hours down there,

then let's find something else that you can do.

And that's the thing where you make the most possible money

that's moral and legal.

Okay.

Uh.

And I want you to go pray, pray for a while.

Because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it

and the dynamite is dollar bills.

Okay.

I like that.

And you just say,

food, shelter,

lights and water,

and pay off the stinking car.

And that's all I am breathing to do right now.

I breathe in and out every morning.

I'm tired because I work all the time.

But by God, I'm making progress for the first time in five years.

Yes.

You can do this.

You can do it.

What was the nature of your mental illness stuff?

I have a level one high functioning autism.

And that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full-time job.

Yeah.

And then I also have, because of that stems of like some anxiety and depression.

Yeah.

I have over the last few months gone on the right and that's gotten to the stable housing

and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable.

Good.

I'm trying to do baby one right now.

Well, here's the thing.

Here's what I've worked with in 35 years of doing this.

I've worked with a whole bunch of people

that both had high level functioning autism

and I've worked with a whole bunch of people that had depression.

And the thing I know is the depression is made worse when you feel trapped.

And when you're not in action mode.

When you get in action mode and get in warrior mode and get in attack mode,

it helps because it releases the dopamine and other things.

And it helps to melt away the depression.

And the high functioning autism can actually work in your favor

in those situations because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't you?

Yeah.

I am really good at teaching people to swim.

And actually the gym I'm working at is called the ability to succeed.

And it's actually in the depth of gym and most of their employees have some kind of disability.

Okay.

And anything you can do to help people work out if you can do a personal trainer thing going like that.

I was going to say you need to go to the studio.

What we're going to do is use all of the situation to your advantage to the thing that has been a blocker for you.

Because as you start melting away these debts, first and foremost, you get this car off your back,

off your mother's back, your brain is going to clear up.

The fog that you've been walking in, the stress-related anxiety of feeling trapped in 16%

and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16% too, that was dumb.

So, you're not dumb, but that was dumb.

So, you know, what you do is you get in an attack mode warrior girl.

You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it.

Complete focus.

I don't want you to pay anybody else. Just let them all go bad.

I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit.

We know that because you have a 16.8% car payment.

So we know your credit's trash already.

So, I'm not worried about that at all. I'm worried about you.

I want you to be free.

So, you hang on and we'll get you signed up for every dollar

and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well.

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For Sale is with us in Reno, Nevada. Hey, Michelle, how are you?

I'm well. Thank you. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, okay, my husband and I are in baby step two.

And I feel like we kind of trip ourselves up because we don't know, he gets paid weekly.

And we're trying to decide if we should do snowball like weekly or wait till the end of the month to pay off like a lump sum.

So when you go through and you do the paycheck planner on every dollar, do you know for sure at the end of the week that you can pay the money off and it won't come back to bite you in the butt later?

We have done it. We have about $400. So I, we have about $400 like extra at the end of the week to have in order to have all of our bills paid at the end of the month.

Yeah, I mean, I don't have a problem with that. That's the way Sam and I used to do it, but we got paid weekly.

And so it just made it easier and I made a schedule of making sure everything was covered, everything was good to go.

And then yeah, that, that freed up, freed us up to be able to do it that way.

So I don't have a problem with that. I think that's great.

Okay, because it just feels like we're not getting anywhere right now because, and I think we're, we're motivated by that.

Like, yeah, look, we paid this or we paid this. Yes, and I feel that they're not getting anywhere.

I'm like, I have one more.

We are getting anywhere. It's just a whole bunch of it at the end of the month, right?

Yes. Yes.

You're just trying to create those first two weeks, you just buy groceries.

Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. And reent and whatever. Yeah.

You're just trying to build in some momentum so that you feel like something's happening every week to keep you going. Am I right?

Correct.

If there's any of the stuff you're paying in that first segment, look at your paycheck. Are you using paycheck planner on every dollar?

We are.

Okay. If you look at that paycheck planner and say, I could roll this item from the first segment to the second segment and use some of that first segment money to get out of that.

And that would keep me that momentum.

And so if there's a bill that you're paying in the first set that can wait till the second set without being late or getting late fees or ding in your credit or something like that.

Anything you can push off into that other segment, use that money in the first segment for that, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because right now she's doing you're doing 400 extra week, right?

No, just in the first segment.

Oh, man, I'm sorry. Are you doing this weekly or by weekly?

We were trying to do it weekly.

If you get paid weekly.

I think she gets paid weekly.

Okay, so each week figure out anything that doesn't have to be in that week that could be in the next week to allow you to pay more debt in that week.

That will give you that emotional being that each time we're paying some necessities and we're paying some debt.

We're paying some necessities.

We're paying some debt.

That'll give you that sense of momentum, but the math is basically the same.

If you said, okay, the first two weeks we're paying only necessities, no debt, and the last two weeks we're paying all debt, it's the same math basically.

But the problem is just the emotion of it, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

And you are working at smallest to largest, right?

We are.

And what is your smallest debt currently?

Smallest debt currently is $7.35.

Oh, good.

What's your household income?

We bring home $7,600 a month.

And how much are you putting on debt a month?

The goal is to put $1,400 a month.

Okay, so that one's gone in one month, right? And another one.

Yes.

Now you told me, I just want to check that because you told me you had $400 margin at the end of every month.

I'm sorry, at the end of every week.

So where's the other 200?

I want to see it's about $4.30.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah, so that should be even more going towards the debt.

Yeah.

So just double check that.

Yeah.

I like the idea of doing it weekly.

The other thing is you just started, didn't you?

We did just started.

Yeah, that's okay.

Nothing wrong with that.

But the way you're describing all of this is what gave me a hint to that fact.

What will happen, and Jade can testify to this too, is the longer you do this, the more intense you're going to get.

Because you're going to start to see this stuff melt away.

And you're going to crunch some other stuff out of there.

You're probably going to end up with more margin than just $14 or $1,500.

Okay, yes.

Yes.

Yeah, as you get further into this and you get used to the rhythm of it,

and you start to see it work, you're going to say, I'm cutting that.

And I'm cutting that.

And I'm cutting that.

Yeah, for sure.

And you're going to work extra.

And I'm cutting that.

If you don't have side hustles, you need to lock those in today.

Because all of that, all of that is going to go towards this.

And all of that is going to give you that momentum that you want to feel.

Bobby's in Nashville.

Hey, Bobby.

What's up?

Hey, guys.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

Absolutely.

So I am, you know, started to make some decent money.

My wife and I are about $80,000 in debt.

And feels like we're not quite month to month, but we're pretty drained.

What's decent learning?

I make about $150,000 in my wife makes about $25,000.

Yes, we have $175,000 income.

How much debt have you got?

That's right.

$80,000.

Not counting the house?

Not counting the house.

Break the $80,000 for me.

How much of that's cars?

I got $22,000 in the car.

Okay.

Only one car debt.

Okay.

What's the other $58,000?

So $20,000 in personal loan and the rest in consumer debt credit cards.

Okay.

She got $40,000 in credit cards.

About.

That's right.

Yeah.

Okay.

What caused that $40,000 in credit card debt?

Take that again.

I'm sorry.

What caused the $40,000 in credit card debt?

We moved actually to the Nashville area about five years ago.

So there was some of that in moving costs.

And there was medical bills, stuff like that.

Okay.

Yeah.

And some overspending and stuff like that.

100% agree.

Yes.

Correct.

Okay.

All right.

Cool.

So it's not like you recently got a raise.

Yes.

Recently did get a raise.

Good.

Started a new job.

That gives you a wake up call.

Okay.

We got to clean this crap up now.

Right?

Absolutely.

Good.

That's a good place to be.

That's a good place to be emotionally.

All right.

So what we teach is a process called the baby steps.

You may have heard of it.

Where we list your debts.

Yes.

Where we say first, get $1,000 set aside.

The second one is list your debts smallest to largest.

Live on beans and rice.

Rice and beans.

Scorched lifestyle.

No going out to eat.

No vacations.

No whining.

Work all the time.

And pay off the stinkin' debt as fast as you can.

Oh, by the way, y'all need to have a plastic surgery party tonight.

And cut up those credit cards.

Light a candle.

Have a ceremony.

And shop those things up there destroying your freaking life.

They're half of your debt.

Yeah.

And the next time we get ready to buy something, we're going to pay for it.

Or we're not buying it.

Two weeks.

We also have, you know, I have three kids.

They're all in their activity.

So there's, you know, travel baseball and competitive dance.

And we're paying a healthy portion.

Well, maybe there is or maybe there isn't.

You make $175,000 a year.

Can you afford to continue to do that?

You ask you and your wife ask yourselves and get this debt paid off.

Because, you know, I'm telling you, I'm not putting the family in debt for travel baseball.

Yeah.

Something's going to, you're going to feel the sacrifice of this somewhere.

Yeah.

I don't know if you can do it or not.

You guys got to look at it.

But, but the two of you need to, don't start this conversation with the reason you can't do this.

Because you can do it.

Yeah.

It's just a matter of who's crying.

Right.

Yeah.

We definitely need to get better about our budget.

We have it really tightened that up as well.

You don't even have one.

You don't have to get better about it.

You're going to have to do one.

And then you're going to have to be sacrificial about it.

And the more, so here's the deal.

You make $175.

If you lived on $95,000, not counting taxes, you'd be debt free in a year.

Right.

But that's going to require a way different lifestyle than you guys have been living.

Because you all been buying everything in sight like you're in Congress.

And nobody in your house has heard the word no in a long time.

Kids, you, your wife, anybody.

So y'all are going to start looking at each other and go, no.

Because it's stealing your future.

You make too much money now for this to continue to be the way to do things.

Too many people get a raise.

And the way they celebrate it is a new car payment.

Well, you got to stop that.

This has to be broken.

This is the cycle that breaks.

So you sit down with your wife tonight and go, okay, time for us to be grown up.

And we're going to have to reintroduce the ancient word to our household.

The word is new.

Period.

It's a complete sentence.

Yeah, it is.

Everybody, practice it with me.

You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth and make a kissing motion with your lips.

It sounds like this.

No.

It's illegal to say that to any group or person in America today.

No.

But it's a healthy word.

It sets you free.

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Welcome back to the ramsy show in the fairer wins credit union studio,

Jade Wash all ramsy personality.

Number one best selling author is my co-host today.

Nicole is in Detroit.

Hi, Nicole. How are you?

Better than I was better than we deserve.

How can we help?

So I was calling.

So basically my husband has refused to give me financial visibility into his life.

He has put his foot down like literally like, no, you cannot see anything that I have going on financially.

I can tell you about it.

But you, you can't know anything that's going on.

And the reason why it happened is we were in the position to buy a home and the housing counselor in the lender that we were working with asked about our finances.

And I found myself saying, well, I don't know.

Let me hold on. Let me ask my husband.

And then after our call was done, I told my husband.

And I said, you know, I shouldn't have to say, hold on to anyone.

Let me ask my husband.

Right.

I should know what's going on.

You know, in that part of your life, it's like we're roommates.

It's like you're over here.

How did that go?

He said, I'm a grown man.

I do not have to show you anything financially in my life.

Wow.

You're a geek.

You're a geek and you're my husband.

I said, we're supposed to be one that you think that makes us not be one.

And what is that?

And me sure you have money.

Have nothing to do with us.

Yeah, but this is this is where are we now?

So I moved out.

We were in a rental.

When we came together eight years ago, it was it was his house.

So I moved in with him.

We've been there for eight years.

We were trying to work on getting our own house.

And because all this, I mean, it's so bad day.

It's so bad.

But what else is going on?

Because this was explosive.

So what else is going on?

I have a feeling that it wasn't.

This has not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

Yeah, nope.

So he has a 21 year old son.

And his son is very disrespectful.

He basically, it's basically like he runs the house.

And if I try to say anything to him about his son,

what his son does.

If I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around,

he never believes me.

Uh-huh.

All right.

So it's just it's just bubbling over.

Yeah.

How can we help you?

So I just want to know.

So we've separated.

He has filed divorce papers that I haven't signed yet.

I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talked to a boat.

Got you.

Even a word.

I said, not a word.

Have you suggested some sort of council?

Have you suggested, hey, this is really a bad.

We need to get in counseling.

What did he say?

Yes.

I said that.

And he said, no, because your bad person is not going to tell me

that I have to allow you to see how much.

See, here's the thing.

And I'm just going to go ahead and say this.

This is based off of just what you've told me.

So take it with a grain of salt.

Based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see.

And maybe it does have to do with his stature or how people view him.

He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money.

Maybe that's a blessing.

He's the one that's filed for divorce.

Maybe this is you dodging a bullet.

I don't know.

I don't know.

But this sounds like somebody who doesn't.

It sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told

nor learn anything about a better way to exist in a relationship.

That's what you've told me.

Yeah.

And the weird thing is that all of his finances are now going to get exposed.

In a divorce.

Right.

Because the judge is not going to go along with his plan.

It's very ironic.

100% of his finances have to be exposed or he's going to have to lie to the court

which will get him put in jail.

So, you don't lie to the court.

Not even divorce court.

So, you know, he has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has to all come before the judge

and he's going to find out that half of it's yours.

That's going to be very weird for him.

Well, we've only been married two years.

Yeah.

That doesn't matter.

Oh, I thought it was eight.

So, you've been in the house for six years.

No, they've been together eight years.

Okay.

Yeah.

What are you concerned about?

Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on that you don't know about?

Actually.

So, before we separated, I had to find out the hallway that he had a garnishment on my account.

And so, I had to ask him several times to get it taken care of.

He got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it.

And, you know, so, I was just like, for you to be so angry with me and telling me, no, you won't allow me to see you financially.

But you got a garnishment on my account.

How is that fair?

There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about.

There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about.

And it's, now, granted, I don't know what parts you've contribute to whatever messes here.

I'm sure there's two sides to everything.

But my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some shame.

Or, you know, it might be just the way he views those gender roles that you guys never aligned on that.

Money is the man's thing and it's not.

Who knows, but it's never going to come out because he won't go to counseling with you.

Yeah, it's going to come out in the divorce.

You're going to find out everything about his money and the divorce, which is the irony of him filing for divorce

because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money.

So it's kind of ironic.

And he just, he just, he just dumb enough he doesn't know that.

So this is going to be a real surprise to him.

It's going to be this awesome wake up call for him.

Because the judge doesn't really care about, the judge doesn't really care about his theories.

He's just going to tell him what to do.

And if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court.

And it's really nasty.

You don't want to screw around with the judge.

So this is where he's going.

The question you asked, I have a sad, horrible answer for.

What can I say to him to do, to make him want to do this?

And the answer is nothing.

There's not anything you can say to him.

I wish there was one phrase, one way of doing it.

But this is a very entrenched position that he has taken to the point.

He's willing to give up his marriage over this.

And so there's not a single phrase.

If he was coming to the table and saying, hey, I want to work on this.

Let's go to counseling.

I could give you some things to say to do all that.

But in this situation, you know, you're just going to be, you know,

just throwing water against the wall.

There's nothing happened in here.

So I'm sorry.

I'm sorry that you chose poorly in a husband.

This guy's bad news.

Too bad.

Yeah.

You wouldn't know one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy.

Not a person out there.

Regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else was going on in the house,

all that kind of thing.

But this is a guy that is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband.

And you're, you know, there's not a single phrase that's going to make him not be a jerk.

I don't have that not be a jerk phrase.

I don't have one of those.

And I'm sorry.

I wish it was.

I wish it was something we could just do.

But unless he just decides that he wants to be together, unified, work together in full visibility

and in order to save his marriage and start with a marriage counselor, then you're not going to make it, Keto.

I'm sorry.

I wish you were.

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Maria is in Arkansas.

Hi, Maria.

How are you?

Hi.

Thank you guys for taking my call.

I'm a little nervous.

That's okay.

But I think I'm trying to get an advice from my husband and I.

We're trying to start building our forever home.

Sometimes we're like, yeah, let's go ahead and get in there and take a loan out.

And then there's time when you're like, well, what if we just cashflow everything we call it a day?

We are debt-free.

That's good.

We want to carpentry.

Do you like that?

That's good.

And we have been saving for the past couple of years.

What have I got already?

Please agree.

So how much have you saved?

Right now, it's a little bit over $120,000.

$180,000?

$180,000?

$180,000.

$180,000?

$180,000.

Wow.

And what is the house going to cost?

The quote that we got is around between $380 and $390.

Okay.

Did you save $180,000 in two years?

Yes.

Wow.

Excellent.

Yes.

So, you know, like I said, we try to figure out if it's okay for us to stop investing right

now just for a couple of years.

Yeah.

Or, you know, to put all that money into cashflow in the house or if it's okay for us to take

out a HELOC.

Did you save $180,000 while investing?

15%.

Yes.

No, we were not investing 50%.

We were only investing between $5 and $8%.

Okay.

So, you know, you can stop investing completely.

I'm with you.

And I would cashflow this thing.

And here's the thing you need to remember.

It'll take you a year to build it.

Correct.

So, you can start in one year.

Because you need two years worth of savings.

You'll have the whole amount, right?

Yes.

That's what we're hoping for.

You know, if everything works out the way, you know, we can.

Yeah.

I would start the house in one year.

I'd get all my plans done.

Have you got the lot already?

Yes.

And it's already paid for.

Yes.

Is it paid for?

Yes.

I'm sorry?

Yes.

It's paid for.

Okay. Good.

So, all we got to do is just cover the bricks and mortar.

Do you have your plans done?

Yes.

Do you have your builders selected?

Yes.

Awesomeness.

Okay.

Well, what we do, what I've done a couple of times, including the building we're sitting

as a matter of fact, I did not have 100% of the money in the bank when we broke ground,

but I knew it would be here by the time I needed it.

Meaning that if it takes you a year to build and it takes you two years to save the money,

then you'd be safe to start building in one year.

Does that make sense to you?

Yes.

Yes, definitely.

Now, and if you can do this in two years and stop everything,

and you'll have a paid for $380,000 plus the lot, $450,000 house.

Sweet.

How old are you guys?

32 and he's 37.

That's amazing.

What's your incomes?

It's around 150.

How'd you save this money so fast?

You guys live on nothing, don't you?

Well, we, I think we're pretty good sailors.

I think you're above average.

Yeah.

It's very impressive.

So here's the thing.

We don't have that much.

If you moved in two years from today, would you be okay with that?

I think I just want to go ahead and start it.

I don't mind getting alone, just because I gave them more emotional side.

You don't really want alone.

You just want a house.

Yes.

I guess you can say that.

Okay.

Well, I mean, we teach what we teach is best is paying cash.

Next best is a house you can pay off in 15 years.

In your case, you could pay it off in one year.

If you started today and it was finished in one year,

you would need to borrow one year's worth of savings rate or about $100,000

when you pay that off in one year.

Yes, I think.

My fear is, is that you'll let your foot off the gas and not pay it off in one year.

That's my fear.

So I would love to talk you into waiting just one extra year,

which will go pretty fast.

I mean, to me, it feels like COVID was like last month and it was five

almost six years ago.

I agree.

And so my point is this thing goes fast.

So if you start, you know, I don't know,

you guys keep talking about it, but anywhere in there is fine with me.

If you want to start now, you're not doing anything stupid.

It's not, it's a good, better best.

Okay.

And what you guys are talking about cash flow in 100% is the best.

I love that.

There's no hiccups in that.

You know, better than, but, you know,

and still in the good range is paid it off in one year,

which is if you took a loan out today and you don't need to take out a loan today,

you'd need to take out a loan somewhere in the building process,

because you won't quite have enough to finish it.

Correct.

But I mean, you could get started today, put 180 into it.

If you slow walk the project.

I was going to say in delay.

And it takes 18 months.

You'll be there.

You can make it.

You know, you'll make it out.

So just, you know, but just be looking at that and thinking about this.

I like the plan of taking dead off the table and we have to push this through,

because it makes you do a whole bunch of stuff,

keeps you from having scale creep in the kitchen.

You know, you select a different dishwasher,

you select a different, whatever.

And I'll add one other thing to this on the emotions.

Okay.

You can justify a lot of things emotionally when you say it's my forever house.

And I've been doing this for a long time and I grew up with parents in the real estate business.

There is no such thing as a forever house.

You will not be there forever.

Statistically, the chances of you dying in this house are very close to zero.

Very close.

So this idea of a forever house is only one it's heaven.

That's it.

You don't have a forever house here.

You're going to move.

Stuff's going to happen.

Things are going to change that you can't see good and bad.

That are going to give you an opportunity to move up, move out, move somewhere.

And this is a great house and it's a great plan and all of that.

But take the pressure off of a forever house because it's like,

because then everything has to be perfect.

I've built a bunch of houses that I live in and they're never perfect.

It's a never perfect process.

It's a very messy, combative, combustive process.

And if you put the pressure on it, it has to be perfect because we're going to be here forever.

It's just too much.

You can't breathe in that.

Yeah, plus you're going to look at it in five years and want things to look a little different anyway.

Oh, I don't even want to talk about it.

Just saying.

Sounds like you have a little experience with that.

Man, I...

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, but...

And I saw...

I was actually when I was 22.

I was selling houses in an subdivision where we built custom homes.

And the people in there that were the hardest to deal with were the ones that had...

They thought this was going to be their last home.

Right.

Or their only home ever.

And that pushed the pressure on the process to be perfect.

It can't be.

They're all there every day driving the subs crazy, you know.

Let them do their work.

It's a piece of drywall.

Let them do their job.

Okay.

Good for God's sake.

You know, and it's just...

And it changes their pressure on how fast we get this done and how much money we've taken, how much money we spend and all that.

So anyway, all that's the same, Maria.

I think you guys have done an extraordinary job way to go.

We're proud of you.

And if you start this month and you take on a little debt and you pay it all fast, that's not the dumbest thing in the world.

But one step smarter would be to cash flow it.

So, and anywhere in between there, like we started six months and we go 18 months to build it.

Oh, now we made it.

You know, that kind of thing.

Yeah, I think that's what's going to end up happening anyway.

Yeah.

Takes a minute.

Takes a hot minute to get all this stuff done.

But yeah, that's a great, great way to go.

And when you're paying cash like this, you're going to watch every dollar in the budget with the builder.

Make sure everything's dialed in.

And you push all those buttons.

It makes a big deal.

I don't get that call very often.

Oh, I love a call like that.

She has options and she has time, which is.

And she got money and money.

And money.

Saved it all.

They live on nothing.

Yeah.

Pretty impressive.

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John is with us.

John's in Atlanta.

Hi, John. How are you?

I'm good. How are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm 22 years old.

I'm graduating college in May.

And I want to buy a car.

But I'm not sure if I can afford it.

Okay.

All right. Well, how much money do you have and how much do you want to spend on the car?

So car is about $13,000.

And I have about $11,000 in cash.

But I do have some savings, some investments, about $40,000,

as well as, you know, $9,000 in a Roth IRA.

What do you want?

So I'm going to be graduating in three months.

And when I graduate, I'll make about $65,000 a year.

What?

I'm going into the wholesale insurance industry.

Okay.

And you've already secured that job?

Yes.

Okay. Cool. Cool.

I mean, if you're going to be making $65,000 under our rule and you're paying cash for it,

I don't necessarily have an issue with that.

What's going to be your living situation?

I'm just going to keep living with my parents and maybe help them day off the mortgage.

Now, that's the part that I have an issue with.

Tell me about why you would continue to live there.

I'm assuming you don't have any other debt.

Am I wrong?

It's because they only live about 30 minutes from where I'll be working.

And I'd rather start saving up money before getting a place to my own.

You may have cut out when I asked you about the debt.

Do you have any other debt?

I have no debt.

You have no debt.

You know, $40,000 in saving.

Uh-huh.

$65,000 income.

And a brand new car.

Why do you got to live at home?

This is your time to strike out.

Really, right after I graduate?

Oh, absolutely.

Yes.

It's the best time.

The most exciting time.

Okay.

I hope you're dating life, too.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

I'll bet.

Yeah.

Girls are not as exactly attracted to guys who live in their mother's basement.

Wow.

It's true, you know.

It's okay to pull money out of my investments, even though about half of it, $20,000 is capital gains.

What do you need to pull?

What do you need to pull?

Go back.

Go back.

Go back.

$2,000.

Right.

What do I mean?

What is the car you're on to buy?

So it is a 1999 Mercedes SL500.

No, I would not buy that car.

Oh, come on.

No.

And here's why.

The car is absolutely stone-called fabulous.

I love the car.

The maintenance on that car for a guy in your situation is absurd.

Maintaining that old Mercedes is going to cost you a freaking arm and one of your legs.

It's going to destroy you, man.

You're going to wish you'd never seen that car.

Let me tell you, it's serious eye candy, though.

I'm with you.

It is an absolutely beautiful automobile.

And it's a classic.

I love what you're looking at.

Dude, it's going to cost you $5,000, $6,000 a year to keep this stinking thing rolling.

Can you tell I've owned a Mercedes or two?

Or six?

Or 20?

I mean, I've had a bunch of them.

And there's a lot of cost to keep the thing rolling.

It gets you something that doesn't cost anything to maintain that is going to be just as much fun.

And that would be a newer model, similar price range, of something that doesn't require constant

stinking maintenance.

Okay.

That's an old man joke, man.

But it's the truth.

So we've just told you to do the two things, not to do the two things that you called on here wanting to do.

Just buy the Mercedes and live at your parent's house.

What are the odds you do either one of them, John?

I will.

I will, don't worry.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So, yeah, I think if you had a fun car that was very highly reliable and requires almost no maintenance that is $10 to $15,000 and you pay cash for it and you make a 90 day plan to move out from mom and dad after you get started in your job and you're actually making the 65K.

I think that's a great plan and that's what I would tell my own son to do.

Okay.

But something that doesn't require maintenance.

Man, I tell you, that's a great car though.

I don't know anything about the car.

I just googled it to see what it looked like.

Yeah.

Classic.

It's classic.

I think it's a beauty.

Yeah.

Classic.

It's a good old looking Mercedes and it's great, but they just, it doesn't matter.

Every time I take the thing to shop, it's just a tad gum, man.

It's unbelievable.

And so they are not easy to maintain.

Well.

They're not cheap to maintain.

And the fact that you buy a cheap car, but then you're having a high maintenance bill.

Right.

If you don't buy a cheap car, then get something that doesn't have a high, have to work on all the time.

Yeah.

Let's talk about real quick this living at home business because he was the stark opposite of Alvaro

who did his debt free screen on Friday.

Okay.

So Alvaro graduated from college, similar age and lived at home, made his parents a deal and said,

can I live at home debt free for me to pay off?

I think it was 70 or $90,000 of student loans.

Because he'd done the math and said, if I pay interest, if I do this, it's going to take too long.

And he said, and after a year, if I'm not working hard enough, you can charge me double rent.

And so a year passed, they saw he was working very hard.

He ended up paying off all the student loans, did his debt free screen.

Perfect example of saying, I'm going to graduate.

I'm going to live at home for a short period of time in order to win.

Very clean.

What my guy, John wanted to do is pile up cash.

And I personally wouldn't do that unless you have debt to pay off, but just to sit at home and just stack up money

at such a key point in life when it's time for you to go out and be your own person, I just wouldn't do it.

I think it's more detriment than good at that point.

Yeah.

It's just my personal opinion.

You're trying to look at this only through the lens of money and there's social development, there's career development, there's confidence, there's everything else involved.

So each one of our kids, we love them dearly and they were more than welcome to stay in our home forever, except it wasn't good for them.

Yeah.

And so we helped them make arrangements within a month or two of graduation to be on their own.

You pay your own light bill, you make your own bed, you buy your own milk.

Now you're an adult.

Your mommy's not cleaning your underwear.

I mean, it's time.

And honestly, you're more attractive to employers because you walk different.

You're more attractive to the opposite sex because you walk different.

You have the shoulders thrown back a little confidence, little swagger like I got this thing.

And I'm actually doing it and there's a confidence that comes from having the dignity of being on your own.

And we've got a large percentage of your parents out there who are encouraging your children to not develop into adults because you got a whole bunch of 26 year olds living in mommy's basement.

And they've all got an opinion about capitalism with your $1100 Apple phone, which is more than just humorously stupid as well.

So it changes everything.

It changes everything.

When you start, it's on me.

There's no bread in the cabinet because I didn't buy bread.

It's on me.

And it changes everything.

I think so.

And we're hurting this generation by not allowing them to do some hard things.

Yeah.

And no shade on John.

Like he's done a great job.

He, you know, came out of college with no debt.

He's got money saved.

All of those good things.

But that's also understanding you're in a great position to be on your own.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's okay.

This is why you do this.

This is good.

Yeah.

I left with $1.12 in my chicken account.

Oh, yeah.

That's how Hillbilly's do it.

I'm just saying.

When I moved out.

When I moved out of my parents' house, I moved into a friend's apartment that already had two roommates.

So I had a futon in the living room.

Oh.

And that's all I had.

But I wanted to get out.

I was ready.

Hello, net worth.

Yeah.

When your net worth is a futon.

So I had.

It was not comfortable.

10 out of 10 wouldn't recommend.

The question of the day is brought to you by YRIFI.

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Today's question comes from Mason and New Hampshire.

He says I bought a house about five years ago.

My name is on the deed and my dad co-signed so I could get a lower interest rate.

Now, my dad is pressuring me to refinance to get his name off the loan.

I'm not behind on payments.

Am I legally obligated to do this?

I don't think I should have to refinance because he made the choice to sign for me.

I like this question.

Are you legally obligated?

No, you're not legally obligated.

My guess is your dad is trying to do something else financially.

Maybe he's, I don't know who knows, maybe he's trying to buy a house.

But he's got a lot of this debt tied to his name or maybe he realized co-signing is really a stupid, stupid act.

And he's trying to make that right.

I don't know what you guys' conversations have been like.

But if I were in your shoes, Mason, my guess is one of two things is taking place.

Number one, if you've looked at refinancing to get his name off and you've realized you cannot afford the loan on your own,

that might be something that's keeping you from doing this.

And if that's the case, I...

If you paid the bill for five years and you paid it on time, refinancing should not be a problem.

It shouldn't be.

The cost to refinance.

Maybe your dad wants to chip in some of that to get his name off the loan.

And so...

My guess is an interesting thing.

No, my guess is he just didn't want to fool with it and he thought this was a forever deal.

So here's the bottom line, Mason.

What you all did was stupid.

He should not have done this.

Because at the moment, he was trying to help his kid get a house.

But there was no end to the deal.

In your mind.

In his mind, he wants to get off of it now.

And you're just like, well, he gets down there forever and screw up his life forever.

Because he can't buy nothing else as long as his name is on this.

It's just a liability in his name.

So he's gonna trouble getting a mortgage himself is the problem.

Or refinancing his mortgage is a problem.

Anything like that.

You can't do anything. He's stuck.

So it was a stupid idea.

And now you guys are tied at the hip and it's not bothering you at all.

So, yes, you should refinance this on a moral basis, not on a legal basis.

If it all possible, I'd figure out a way to refinance it.

And if I was your dad and I wanted off this loan, I'd pay the closing cost to get rid of the thing.

Yeah.

And I'll help you guys get it done and get the deal done.

So here's the thing, folks.

If someone can't afford to buy the property or buy the item without a cosigner,

it's gonna be a pinch later.

The banks, they loved loan money more than they loved to breathe.

And if they won't loan you money without a cosigner, it's because you're not eligible.

Hello.

They would love to give you money and rip you off in any possible way they can.

And then parents come along and go, oh, I'll help you get screwed.

You know, that's just dumb.

And dads and moms, you're not a blessing to your child when you do this.

You're helping them step into a bear trap going, step right here, son.

This is how it's done.

Well, that's dumb, okay?

Don't do this.

Because you get in these situations is what happens worse than this situation is where the guy's not paying the bill.

We get that one all the time.

Exactly.

Oh, my grandmother.

My grandmother, my grandmother's cosine from my car and it's 42% interest.

And now my grandmother is about to get screwed because I'm going to get reposed.

A hundred percent of these deals go bad.

Of course it goes bad.

So please, please, please do not cosine.

It's in the Bible, probably of 1718.

One lacking in sense, cosigns for another.

That's what the Bible says.

So you're lacking in sense when you do this.

I have cosine back in my earlier days and I got to pay the bill almost every time.

One fool cosine for me and then I went broke and he ended up paying the bill.

Now they had to go back and pay him back later.

His wife's still not happy with me 30 years later because we were fools.

Signed up for a bunch of crap that we thought was going to work out that everybody else knew wasn't going to work out.

Carson is in Cincinnati.

Hey, Carson, how are you?

Good.

Hey, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

Okay.

So my wife and my stepson may live separate from me.

They're German citizens and they're waiting to get their visas approved so they can live here with me.

But that is expected to take anywhere between one to two years from now.

Are they in Germany?

They are.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

My question is how should I be prioritizing my time alone and what debts should I be focusing on to make sure that my family is set up for success when they get here?

How long have you been married?

September.

Cool.

And how'd you meet?

I was stationed over there in the army.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you.

So if you get married, I don't know how this stuff works.

I'm ignorant about it.

It takes two years to get a foreign citizen wife on site.

Well, if we had gotten married while I was still in the army, it would have been a lot quicker.

But we decided to get married after I got out and the current administration has been very slew with immigration.

So that was the update I received was 12 to 24 months.

Okay.

I'm going to keep getting updates and I'm going to keep learning if I'm you because that's an unacceptable answer as far as I'm concerned.

But the current administration has not got a war going with people coming here legally.

It's the ones coming here illegally.

And so they're not trying to put a block on immigration in general.

That's not the spirit of what's happening out there right now.

I was with some customs guys yesterday.

So anyway, I don't know anything about the law on that or the regulations today.

But I'm going to keep pushing if I'm you answer to your question is we'll get out of that as fast as you can as much as you can and stack as much cash as you can, right?

Right.

Okay.

So I got the numbers and I'll share them with you.

Okay.

Tell us.

Okay.

So my net income, I received $5,200 a month for my job.

And I received compensation from the VA for injuries.

That is $2,300 a month.

On top of the 52.

Yes, for a total of $7,500 net per month.

Good.

Okay.

The debts that I have, I have a mortgage for a house that I bought for $153,000.

I have 140 remaining on the mortgage.

I have 26,000 in home renovations on a loan that I've got.

And $13,000 in student loans.

And $4,300 in credit card debt.

Okay.

Cut up the credit cards.

Let's get on a tight budget, pay them off as fast as you can and pay off the student loan.

You ought to be able to do that pretty quick if it's just you.

Are you sending money to Germany?

I am a portion of my check is going over there to her to support her while we wait.

How is she being supported before you got married?

So she still works a job right now.

She has just moved out of her apartment to her mother's house to get ready for when we do get the green light for the visa.

To move over here.

Does she have any debt or anything that we need to take note of?

She has a $6,000 loan on the car remaining.

I've offered to pay that off for her, but she has elected not to.

Is there?

She has a sense.

I don't know if you have a sense of duty to pay it off.

She feels it was her loan.

She wants to pay it off herself.

Well, here's the thing.

I know that you guys are living separately, but you are married.

So there's really no reason to not attack this together and work on this together.

So I mean, if the $6,000 dollar car loan is the only thing, even if it wasn't,

I would still stack this into a debt snowball and I would still combine you guys' margin together

and all of your money's together and whatever the margin you both have together

goes at the smallest debt, which in this case still is the credit.

She's still working and she went from an apartment to mother.

She shouldn't be needing money.

That's true.

There should be more margin.

She was making it before.

Yeah.

Now she should be easily making it.

And so you shouldn't be having to send money and use it to clean up debt.

What I would do.

But hey, it sounds like you got it on the run though.

List your debt smallest, the largest attack them in that order, dude.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Jade Washall, Ramsey Personality is my co-host, number one best-selling author.

Kerry is in Detroit.

Hey, Kerry, what's up?

Hi, longtime listener, big fan.

I'd like to thank you very much because I'm finally to baby step four.

Yay!

Where'd it go?

I am 51 years old.

I'm going to be 51 years old this year.

I have not invested anything.

I was widowed very young.

I just spent the last 17 years trying to survive and raised my two kids.

Like I said, I just got to baby step four.

I have about 20,000 put away into savings.

Good.

I have nothing left but my house, which I have about 90,000 on.

And I am about six years into a 15-year mortgage on that.

Phenomenal.

What do you make?

I make roughly around 64,000 a year.

It is a little bit variable because I'm in business for myself.

So I'm a housekeeper.

So there are times that people cancel on me.

But for the most part, my income is right around $5,500 a month.

Good for you.

Well done.

My question is, is never investing, never having any type of retirement or anything,

where to start to invest, especially with the market, the volatile,

and having no financial education on how to invest money at this point?

Okay.

That's a really, really good question.

I love your question.

Also, do I invest more than 15% at this point because I have a little bit of cash fluidity?

Nope.

You put it on the house.

Let's get the house paid off above 15%.

Maybe step four, five, and six work together.

Sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro.

Click Smart Vestor Pro at RamseySolutions.com.

Their job is not to do it for you.

Their job is to teach you and say, here's how a mutual fund works.

Here's what it is.

Here's how stable this type of fund is.

Here's how volatile this other type of fund is.

And here's what we can do with a Roth IRA for you.

And probably a, you got employees?

No, I am sole proprietor and worker.

Perfect.

You can look at a simple IRA as well or a simplified pension plan, either one.

You can do Roth and all of them.

So you can easily get to 15% of your income going in.

You'll be just easy to do that in your situation.

Start with just a Roth and then if you have to do a little bit more in an SEPP,

a simplified employee pension plan, it's easy to do.

And they're very easy to set up.

They're very inexpensive to set up.

Not a lot of fees.

And then just start putting a systematically 15% of your income away.

If you never get a raise and you do that for the next 15 years,

you're going to retire with dignity.

Thank you because that has been a huge worry of mine.

Not anymore.

Not when you learn the math.

So one of the things you do when you sit down with them, you say,

what's 15% of 65,000?

So quickly we're going to figure out that that is $10,000.

About 850 bucks a month.

And you start doing that and you do that for 15 years.

You're going to have a bazillion freaking dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I can't do it in my head right now because you're going to have plenty.

Okay.

And you can actually look at the calculator on the Ramsey website

and it'll help you figure that out too.

But you just steadily invest and we're not going to ring our hands

and worry about the market being volatile because the market is up to market is down.

But you don't lose all your money.

It just makes a little more.

It makes a little less.

It's all it is.

It's like some years houses go up, put more in value, and some years they don't.

Right?

Great.

But there's still a good investment.

They're volatile, but there's a good investment.

Not very volatile, but they're volatile.

They do go up and down.

There's not a guarantee.

But you're counting on the track record of real estate.

It's always going up.

Some years more than others.

Some years may be down a little, but most of the time it goes up.

A good mutual fund or series of mutual funds in your Roth IRA will do the same thing

and you'll have plenty.

You're going to be okay.

But you need to learn about all of that and to where,

because what happens is your anxiety about the markets,

your anxiety about investing and not knowing, goes away the more you do know.

Absolutely, because right now I am completely bound by fear

because I don't know anything.

It's taken me so far just to get to this point.

And what that fear should do is drive you to learn,

not drive you to not do it.

Right.

And that's where I then had the time.

Exactly.

So that's normal.

There's two kinds of fear.

There's two kinds of fear.

There's two kinds of fear.

Fear that helps us avoid touching a hot stove.

Good fear.

Fear that keeps us, that's false evidence appearing real.

It's just something we don't know about it.

Being our child to ride a bicycle, they're afraid.

But you and I know they're going to be okay.

They may fall over scratch their little knee,

but they're going to be okay.

And they're going to have hours and hours and hours and years of enjoyment

of riding a bicycle.

So we put them to push them through the false evidence appearing real.

They're not going to die.

They're going to fall over.

Oops.

Okay.

And so you learn that this is, that's what this is.

You're learning to ride a bike.

You're not going to have any scratch needs, by the way.

You're going to have the fear of the unknown,

which is different than the fear of the hot stove.

Okay.

You can do this.

If I were in your shoes, I would start with reading.

And Ramsey Solutions has wonderful articles that are very easy to read

and comprehend and understand.

And I would start there.

And if a word pops up that you're like, what do they mean by that?

I would look up the definition.

And I would just go down that rabbit trail and learn more and more and more.

And do that regularly.

And after a while, the words that used to sound scary and big

and you don't know what that means, that goes away.

And you start to understand it more.

And that way, when you do go to meet with your smart investor,

you're going to understand what they're talking about.

And it's not going to feel like they're up here and you're down here.

But their job is to put the cookies on a shelf where you can reach them.

That's their job.

It's to make this easy.

Make it easy to understand.

And if it's not easy to understand, get you a different person.

No.

Don't use that person.

Correct.

Are there any books that you would also recommend?

Baby steps millionaires.

Okay.

Matter of fact, we'll give it to you.

Okay.

Hang on.

We'll sign you up for that.

Yeah.

Just check Smart Vestor Pro at RamseySolutions.com and sit down.

You're looking for financial people with the heart of a teacher.

Too many people around numbers think they need to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

I have no idea what the freak they said, right?

So, no.

You want somebody that talks in a language that you can understand and they teach you.

This is how this works.

And here's a mutual fund that's been open 100 years.

Here's a mutual fund that's been open 90 years.

It's had four down years in the last 27 years.

Yeah.

And you can look at the chart and go, oh, look at that.

The stingeting thing made money 24 out of 27 years.

Okay.

That gives me a comfort level.

That's an actual fund, by the way.

Okay.

So, you can look at these things and get a handle on that.

And then you go, oh, okay, well then maybe it's not as scary.

Oh, the markets and everybody lost all their money.

No, they didn't.

They lose some because they buy high and sell low because they freak out and don't watch what's going on.

So, that's the difference.

So, you're going to do really, really good.

You're going to end up wealthy and you deserve to be.

You've worked hard.

You've been a warrior, single mom.

Okay, good.

Warrior, princess, cleaning houses to raise those kids.

And now you're going to retire with dignity.

I'm so proud of you.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here.

Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next.

Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show.

Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained,

Ask Ramsey is here to help.

It's fast, simple and free to use.

Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today.

That's RamseySolutions.com.

Greg is in Nashville.

Hey, Greg, how are you?

Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, I have some whole life policies that, I mean, my wife's got like one through her like 20.

I'm 50, probably 55 this year.

I'm sorry.

And I know, I know I've shared, I've been listening to you for the last year or so.

But my question is on it, should we cash surrender?

There's each about 100,000 cash surrender.

I don't think we have to pay on any more.

I think we've had them since we were so young that I think they pay for themselves each year now.

And I don't know if it's worth.

I don't necessarily need, I mean, I could always use extra money.

But I don't know if it's worth doing the cash surrender on those policies or just leaving.

They're small.

I think they're $150,000 policies or something like that when we got them originally.

Okay, so you have $150,000 policy with $100,000 cash value.

Is that right?

Yes.

And you have two of them.

And you have two of them.

It totally grows.

Like they sold you on that stuff.

No, I'm going to make sure I understand what you've got.

Stop a second.

Do you have two $150,000 policies and each of them have $100,000 cash value in them?

Yes.

If we were to surrender them now.

That's what I'm asking.

Okay, good.

Okay.

And so if you die, you know they keep the $100,000, right?

So you have $50,000 worth of insurance in essence.

Do you follow me?

Yeah.

I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows.

And that I didn't understand.

I don't understand it either because it's the biggest screw drop of the middle class in my life I've ever seen.

But it happens all the time.

So that's how a whole life policy works.

I mean, I do have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago.

Okay.

Okay.

So you're covered if you die, right?

You don't need them.

Yeah.

No.

And my question is even about the term, too, is like, do I need to keep that up as my value or like my personal value or me?

My wife's value is over that amount.

Should I like do I need that life insurance or is it this?

That's what you mean.

What life insurance is for is to take care of her if something happens to you.

If you have $5 million in mutual funds, you don't need life insurance.

She's taken care of.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

What life insurance for is to take care of you if something happens to her.

And if you have a big pile of money and you're okay without her income, then she doesn't need yourself insured on all of it.

Okay.

Sure.

Then back to the whole life.