How Do I Get My Boyfriend To Step Up and Make More Money?

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Phone number jump in, triple 8, 825-225.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman, excited to be with you and we're ready to take your calls.

Nancy gets to start it off in Jackson, Mississippi.

Nancy, how can we help?

Hi, I'm considering filing bankruptcy, and I'm not sure if that's the right move for me right now.

Okay, tell us why you're considering it.

My husband, who I've been separated from for about two years, he's going to be filing,

and I have 25,000 in credit card debt.

You mean filing for divorce? Is that what you're talking about?

No.

He's the one that wants to file for bankruptcy for himself.

Correct.

Okay, got you.

Okay, keep going.

Since we're separated, I'm taking care of all the bills, and so the credit card bills have been

a pretty good amount each month, so I'm considering it to take that load off, but in the future,

I'd like to be able to still get home loans, I used to flip houses, I'd like to get back

into that, but I don't know how much a bankruptcy will hurt me, so I should just do.

Okay.

I mean, would you loan you money after going through a bankruptcy?

Probably not.

Yeah.

So there's a better way out of this, Nancy, and I know it feels like the walls are coming

in right now.

You've got a lot of life happening, and so step one is to look at some facts.

So fact number one, is your name on all of these credit cards?

The 25K, my name is on, is that is separate that he's going to file for.

Good.

Okay.

So is that your total debt, or is there other debts as well?

That's my only debt for me personally.

Okay.

Great.

And what is your income?

It really varies and fluctuates.

I go from anywhere a thousand a month to 3,000 a month.

What do you do?

I'm a transaction coordinator for a real estate company, and I am a photographer.

Do you have any control over that variation from one to three a month?

In other words, more effort or just being more available, do you have any control over

that?

I don't.

It depends.

I work basically per contract, and I never know how many contracts I'm going to get each

month.

And is there an exclusivity?

I just don't understand that role in that industry well.

So forgive me if that's a silly question.

But is there any exclusivity to where you couldn't do that for another broker or something

like that in order to get more contracts and more money?

I'm not really sure.

I've been loyal to this company because they're promising in a few months that I'll be

moved to a full time salary position.

Okay.

But it's not guaranteed that it's based on his ebb and flow of his company.

Right.

And I appreciate loyalty, love loyalty, don't want to dismiss loyalty.

But if there's no exclusivity and it's not a conflict of interest, the is the meat of

my question, then in other words, an ethic, then you could still work for them and still

step into this full time role if it materializes.

But you could also start getting more contracts and thus more money.

And I'm jumping in here.

George is going to pick back up, but I'm trying to address the income issue.

And so you need to look into that by the end of this week at the latest you're finding

out the answer to my question.

You still understand my question?

Yes.

Okay.

Because that would theoretically be maybe the quickest way or the best way to get more income

in my track and George.

Yeah.

And it's not what I'm seeing here.

Pick up a job because of what George is about to tell you.

So Nancy, like right now is when we need to increase our income.

And I mean, urgently and George, why, what does she do with this increased income?

Well, if you think about this way, Nancy, two grand a month towards your credit card

that's done in the year, right?

So now you're going to sweep must be nice to have two grand extra on top of your bills.

It is nice.

And that's where if you made $4,000 consistently in your bills were 2000, well now we have

a fighting chance to get out of this.

So the next question is, why are you covering all of the bills for the household?

My husband's currently unemployed.

And why is that?

Well, he's been using drugs for the last four years.

And so we've been separated for the last two years.

Is he, and he's still living at the house?

No.

He's not living at the house.

No.

OK, so what bills are you responsible for for him?

For him?

None.

It just the one, just I just pay the mortgage, all the utilities and credit card.

So you've essentially been on your own financially for how long?

100% since May, we've separated multiple times.

So it's been time I've been at the house.

And it's over for good.

We don't know yet, but I'm leaning that way without a miracle from God.

Do you have any kids?

I have two, three and a four-year-old.

And they're at your house?

Yeah.

OK.

And the four-year-old is special needs, which is my reluctance to take on more hours.

I totally understand, didn't know that, but what we're trying to help you understand

is you don't need bankruptcy.

I would rather see these cars go to collections and you settle them later than you go through

a bankruptcy.

It will do less damage to your financial future.

So what you need to focus on now is your four walls, Nancy.

That means you put food on the table.

You're going to cover all your utility bills, the mortgage.

All of that comes first before you pay the credit card company a single dime.

And if you can't pay them that month because you had to put food on the table, I don't

care about the credit companies hunting you down, being upset, calling you, whatever.

They're going to threaten to sue you.

It's going to go to collections.

If that's what it takes in the season, that's what it takes.

But the bankruptcy is going to cost you money.

Money that you don't have right now.

Right.

So it's actually cheaper and more financially wise to choose the other, you know, this

is a rock in a hard place.

And so we're just going to choose the rock right now, which is the credit card debt.

So stick with it.

Make the minimum payments if you can.

Make extra when and if you can.

And soon you're going to be out of this.

This is not a forever season, right?

Do the children have childcare while you're at work?

How does that, how does that work for you guys?

I work remote.

So I take care of them all the time.

Okay.

So what might be helpful is to find a full time remote role that is sooner.

And you might need to talk to your boss and say, hey, listen, I'm going through one

of the hardest seasons of my life.

I need some stability right now with my income.

I can't risk having $1,000 a month.

And therefore I need to go find XYZ job.

Now they might fast-track it and go, hey, you know what?

We'll start you full time now if you can handle it.

But you don't have the option of just waiting around hoping for this job to materialize.

And Nancy, while you're waiting on that miracle, I'm also going to throw out there.

You got to get some community.

If you don't have community, go get involved in a church.

It's not the worst thing in the world.

And we've got to get some people to come around you and help out with childcare for a season.

This marriage is completely up in the air.

We totally understand.

But you have got, while praying for a miracle, hoping a miracle, you've got to act as though

you're divorced in the sense of taking care of you and the kiddos.

And you've been doing that, by the way, and you're amazing.

But it's okay for you to raise your hand and say, I need some more help.

So we just hit you with a lot.

But you're going to be okay.

And bankruptcy is not the plan for you.

I think George gave you really tactical advice.

And we're rooting for you.

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All right, let's go to Ashley and Ann Arbor, Michigan, Ashley.

How can we help?

Hi there, so nice to talk to you all, I'm so excited.

So first off, and most importantly, my boyfriend and I just had a baby.

He's 11 weeks old right now.

Every friend is a car salesman and has not been making sales.

So I have been paying all of our bills and I can barely cover.

I can just cover our bills now and we've been doing okay, but when I need to go back to

work in just about a month, we're sending the baby to daycare and in the area we live

in, daycare can be up to $3,000 a month and there's no way I can afford it anymore.

So with my boyfriend not making any sales and we don't know when and if he's going

to start making sales, I'm really struggling to figure out how we're going to make it.

Okay, a lot here.

So what let's talk about your income first just because you're not married and I know

your boyfriend is the father of the baby and I appreciate all that.

We'll get to him in a moment.

I got thoughts on that whole situation.

I don't really like it.

Boy do I have some thoughts, George.

What's going on with you and your ability to make more money?

What's happening there?

I understand the outrageous cost of child care, believe me, but what has changed because

the way you kind of laid that out, I'd like to know what's behind all this.

So I make $145,000 a year.

I work in tech.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

And I live in the city's pretty expensive and it's a very long story behind this that

I don't want to get into.

But basically I live in my dad's house and when my boyfriend moved in, actually just

like pretty recently, my dad increased the rent of this house.

So it's now $3,000 a month, which isn't astronomical, but with all the bills and the money.

Was it prior to that?

It was $2,200 a month.

Okay.

So you had an $800 increase there.

What's your debt situation?

I stupidly have a car that I saw about $15,000 on it, but that's it.

No credit card debt or school loans or anything else.

Okay.

So George, a quick analysis.

She's making good income.

Very good.

You're income is great.

It sounds like he's about to be a stay at home dad if he doesn't come up with income

quick.

That's exactly.

All of that.

Would you even trust him with that role?

That is the problem.

I wouldn't necessarily trust him and we've been having a lot of relationship issues.

Okay.

Rule number one, don't have a baby with someone you wouldn't trust to watch your child.

Yeah.

Right.

It was it was not we did not plan it this way.

Okay.

Well, okay.

All right.

All right.

So much, so much there.

Okay.

I'm not going to dive into that lane, although I get it.

And to that point, he shouldn't be your boyfriend.

He because of that moment is the father of this child.

But you don't trust him to actually be the father of the child.

Let's just be really, really gut level honest.

You should dump this guy really soon.

Multiple reasons why and I'll give it back to George and we'll start walking through

some money.

Number one, you didn't want to have a relationship with the guy.

Number two, you didn't want to have a kid with him.

Number three, you don't trust him to actually watch your kid.

Number four, he can't sell cars.

So he's dead weight right now.

This guy doesn't need to be in a relationship with you and he certainly does not need to

be in that house with you.

So I would legitimately dump him for those four reasons.

And by the way, you can quote me and he can go watch the segment on YouTube and I'm not

trying to be unkind to him.

I just, he needs a wake up call of adulthood and the wake up call is you going, buddy, as

George said, you're dead weight, you're out.

So he's done, done, gone and maybe he wakes up, but we've got to make plans as though he's

not going to wake up.

There's my, there's your, you've got to make this decision in light of the money advice

that we're going to give you.

All right, George, bringing you in here on $145,000, $15,000 worth of debt.

Yeah.

Okay.

You're called in saying that you don't have enough to cover the bills or it's getting

tight.

I want to challenge the expenses here because yeah.

Can you rent for $1,600 a month in your area?

So that, that is another, like the complication that I would be a whole separate call that

I kind of don't, I think we probably don't have time to get into.

You're a prisoner in this home, aren't you?

Basically, yes.

I had a feeling dad needs you to pay this money.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, he actually does it.

Well, I could get somebody else.

Yeah, it's not your problem.

What's actually keeping you in this house?

Um, it's such a long story.

I don't have to give it, you don't have to give us a long story, but links twice if

you're okay.

Ashley, we just want to know.

I am fine.

Okay.

I'll try to say it in 20 seconds.

So my dad bought the house a bunch of years ago.

It's appreciated and value significantly, like doubled in value.

Like it's a multi-million dollar house.

He is in very poor health.

He's actually in the hospital right now for the third time in the last two weeks.

And he says, if he sells the house, he would incur a massive tax bill.

And if we wait until he passes away, then we won't incur the tax bill.

You'll inherit it.

So, yes.

Yeah.

With a step up on basis.

Correct.

Correct.

That is true.

That still doesn't mean that we can sit paying three grand a month forever.

So I wonder if you kicked the deadbeat boyfriend out and get some roommates.

That's George's go-to move like that plan.

Hmm.

Now, you don't need to sell the car that you can pay it off aggressively, but you're bringing

home what?

Eight or nine grand a month?

Yeah.

Have you got a budget?

I do.

Yeah.

I've pretty buttoned up about it.

So what's the car payment?

Car payment is $350.

I'm currently paying $700 per month on it to knock out the principal.

So looking at these things here, trying to speed this up, George, I've got $3,000 in rent.

I've got $3,000 in child care, future day care.

I got $350 in a car payment.

So we're right at $6,500 immediately.

You got 1,500 left to pay for gas, food, insurance, and a tiny bit of fund money.

Yeah.

Now, that's not like amazing, but it's a good start and it gets you to survive and thrive

on your own.

But the car payment, George, what's the quick fix on that?

I think we've already talked about it.

I mean, she can make some moves, a roommate.

Yeah.

If you can get this rent down, you're going to free up to me.

Think about it.

You split it with two people.

Now you're talking three of you in there.

You're paying $1,000 a month.

If not more, you might charge them more than $1,000 for their spot.

And I've given this advice a million times and people may be sick of it.

But I think instead of the traditional institutional child care, can you find a retired grandmother

who's bored out of her mind and has got all the motherly instincts, we did this with

our kids when my wife was working full time.

And it's a fraction of the cost.

If you're paying three grand in child care, what if you paid $1,500 and I'm not telling

you that's the number, but I'm just, we're trying to give you real solutions here between

a roommate and an awesome grandmother in your community would love to take care of your

little guy.

That's slashing your costs in half.

Yeah.

And even shared nanny situations and then we break up or at least kick deadbeat out.

I'm not telling you to break up with them at this point, although I would.

But if we kick him out and then hopefully he wakes up, start selling something.

The sad part is we just have to assume that it's going to be status quo and that he's

not going to contribute.

You have to craft a plan forward with or without him.

And right now it's without him.

What did I leave out George?

What else would you do on that reducing cost now that you know what her margin is?

I mean, you're going to have to keep this job you have, hopefully it's steady and work

on getting rid of all of the expenses in your life.

The car is one of them bringing down the rent.

I can't, you know, solve the daycare problem instantly, but I think you at least have

more options than you think.

And even then you got some room left over, which isn't a terrible thing.

So I would use every dollar, craft a budget tonight and then go, what does the next six

months look like?

What does the next year or two look like?

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All right, let's go to Chelsea in Kansas City.

Chelsea, how can we help today?

Hi, I needed just some kind of input.

I've been able to successfully pay down since July over 12,000 in debt.

Good to go.

I've been working super hard at this.

That's awesome.

But I have, so I moved, I did like a credit card balance transfer that had no interest,

so I have no interest until October, and so I still have 6,000 remaining on that.

Do you guys have any input on how I can pay down the rest of that 6,000 by October, because

what I've been doing is $100 each week and any extra leftover from my paychecks I take

like either half or most of it towards that credit card to get it as low as possible,

so that way I can consolidate as much debt as possible.

So what has that been averaging out to?

Probably around 450 to 500 a month.

Okay, and you said you want to know how can you pay the rest of the 6,000 off by October?

Yes, that's my goal, at least, to try to get to.

It should be more than a goal.

It should be this is on fire, because what's going to happen is they're going to backcharge

you 29% APR, which is exactly why they offer these 0% cards.

They're betting against you, Chelsea.

They're hoping you don't pay it.

Yeah, I'd go old school.

This is the way I'm wired, so this may not work for you, okay?

But the first thing that came to my mind is I would take how many months that is, so what

is it?

Seven months from now or six?

I think six months.

Yeah, okay.

So that's what makes a month.

That's exactly what I do.

Old school division, and that's what it's going to take, but your question was how, but

we got to first get with the what?

And so it's a minimum of, you know, I mean, that's your average, 1,000 bucks a month.

So how do I make an additional 1,000 bucks a month is essentially the question I would

then be asking?

I think that's doable.

How much do you make in a month?

I bring home 4,100 a month.

What do you do for a living?

I get insurance.

Well, George is the budget king here, and so he, if anybody could crunch it and try

to find the case of it, he could, and I'll give it to him.

But I would say, George, I think she also needs to look at a second job selling everything,

kind of the basic stuff we've said for decades.

Yeah.

And I just think, Chelsea, that's your number.

And I think of you circle $1,000 and put it on your mirror, your refrigerator, put it

all over the house.

And it becomes so much a focus for you visceral.

You will make that additional 1,000 bucks a month.

And I think if you game a fire, I think it's something you'll look back on 30 years

from now and go, that was one of the most inspiring things I ever did.

That's my two cents on this.

Are you doing any investing right now, Chelsea?

No, not now.

I was previously, I had Bitcoin and I had profit at $1,500.

So I went ahead and withdrew that just at the highest peak that I had in October.

Good.

You put that on the car and put that on this credit card, yes.

Okay.

Do you have anything else in savings?

Technically, I don't have a savings, but I always keep a month and a half worth of my

rent in a separate checking account.

So my rent only goes in and out of that.

I have my paycheck split.

Okay.

And what are your total expenses to cover your rent, food, utilities, all of that around

it's $3,200.

Okay.

Hence it being pretty tight at the end of the month to throw money at this credit card.

So that's where we need to figure out, hey, how much is this $3,200?

Can we free up?

And that might mean we are not eating out.

We're going to get real intense about budgeting.

Every single penny is going to be accounted for and we're going to get a second job.

All of that.

You don't need a huge number to throw a thousand at the debt.

You need like a few extra hundred dollars because you said you're able to throw 500 bucks a

month right now.

So you need an extra 500 on top of that.

Yeah.

There you go.

So that becomes the number.

And so you can do the math and go, hey, if I get a job making 15 an hour, here's how

many hours I need to work.

If I can do whatever Uber Eats, Instacart, DoorDash, whatever the thing is, if I do it this

many hours, here's how much I can reliably make.

Yeah.

And you can do anything for six months.

I wish as a young girl, you have time on your side and energy, something can and I do

not have the truth.

Speak for yourself.

You're very inactive and you know gluten.

So that's your problem.

This is about Chelsea.

On the other hand, I'm very active and I'm okay with gluten.

I have plenty of energy.

Thank you very much, George.

We're having fun.

We're having fun.

We're having fun.

I probably found younger than I am.

How old are you?

How old are you?

I'll be 35.

Oh.

Trust me.

That's young.

Go ahead, George.

I'm your elder.

Take the shot here.

I know.

I'm not going to mention Ken's age on air.

You're pulling me into the low energy deal.

I don't know about that.

But can you do this for six months?

That's what we're asking.

Can you make this sacrifice to become completely desperate?

500 extra bucks a month.

That's the challenge.

Can you do it?

I think so.

I don't know a little more.

I don't like that answer.

I don't like that answer.

I feel like I can't.

I definitely could be eating out less because that's been about four to five times a

month.

So I could cut that down to maybe one.

What if you went for a zero dollar month as far as spending on things that weren't absolutely

necessary to survival?

And I promise you eating out is not necessary to survival as much as it can feel like it.

Yeah, I definitely, I definitely could do that.

And then do it, then try it the next month.

And then it becomes a game.

It's addictive.

And you want to see how much money you can save.

And then all of that money going towards the credit cards will validate the sacrifice.

That's what you need right now.

You need to see some progress.

When you thought you saw progress with the zero percent balance transfer, what really

happened is you paid the credit card company three to five percent of the balance for

the pleasure of delaying the interest.

That's all it was.

Right.

Yeah, I've been, well, we're doing that because my credit card table was so high I was able

to basically eliminate the interest and actually make a dent in it.

Yeah, which is great.

Right.

I'm happy that you're able to make more progress than you would have, but we need to take

advantage of that right now and go, okay, we're actually going to attack debt harder because

of this, not get comfortable because the interest isn't racking up because I promise

you behind the scenes, it is what's the first that's going to hit and that interest will

charge you.

What's the four to five times eating out a month?

What do you think that adds up to?

Probably a couple hundred dollars.

Looks like we just found our debt payoff money.

Wow.

I think so.

So your side hustle has become not eating out.

Yeah, but I still want to see it.

I still, I want to see both not just hold back activity.

I want you to do something too and that in intensity, combined with sacrifice.

So effort plus sacrifice is what I think is a really powerful combo.

That's a good combo right there.

That's a good formula for life.

What?

Effort plus sacrifice.

Yeah.

If you just do those two things, you will be successful.

I think, I think you're right.

I think I didn't plan it, but that's that's true.

It's actually true in any area of your life.

Think about relationships.

Put in the effort, guys, to be a good husband, sacrifice as much as you can, when you can,

how you can.

That looks like serving in a relationship.

That's a big win relationally, physically.

I mean, you know, in the pickleball court, there's pickleball, there's the weight room.

Two things that you would do well to introduce into your life.

I would not darken the door of a weight room.

I'll tell you that right now.

What are the chances that I get you in the weight room in this 2026?

If we filmed it for content, I think we could do it.

Okay.

As long as I've always had a vow to my wife and kids and close friends that I'm never

going to post anything on social media where I'm working out, I think that is tacky.

I don't like it.

But if it's you and I'm holding the phone and watching you and encouraging you to get

that five pound dumbbell curled up on each side, each side that would be, I think,

that's the content that America needs to see.

That's good.

I much prefer a financial sacrifice and effort.

I can do that all day long.

Yeah, but see, that's my point.

That to you is not a whole lot of effort.

You are naturally tight and frugal.

Tell my muscles.

You are your tight there too, but that's your anxiety.

That's the whole other issue.

All right, so can I get this on the record?

Yeah.

I'll talk to your social media person.

Yep.

I'll talk to mine.

You will be my personal trainer for a day.

I'm just going to be there to cheer you on and try to make it funny.

No, it's competition.

America's going to need some comments that they hear while you're in workout gear number

one, number two, doing workout moves.

I guess we got to go shopping for workout gear now.

You'll try on that.

You don't have any workout gear?

I try not to.

Because if I have it, I'll probably work out.

I thought I saw it on the Ramsey cruise.

Yeah, I was in there.

That was only to get to the sauna.

You got to go through the gym.

Don't go anywhere.

We have more coaching calls and George is going to do some pushups real quick.

Get his energy up.

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All right.

And Nick and Richmond, Virginia, Nick, how can we help?

Hey, I'm really just wondering, am I being a little bit too aggressive on my student loan

debt repayment?

Are you starving?

No.

Probably not, but give us the numbers.

So my wife and I have about 70,000 total in student loan debt since March of 2025.

I've made almost $25,000 in payments.

And I guess I just worry, is that too much to be paying when I only have a thousand

dollar emergency fund with a wife and a two-year-old?

Well you've been doing this for a year now.

How's it been going?

You like the progress you've been making?

Yeah, I do like the progress I'm almost done.

I've almost completely paid off my bachelor's degree loans, so I really just have my master's

degree loan and then my wife's bachelor's loan, which is she might have the public service

loan forgiveness as a teacher.

All right.

So let's just back into this a little bit.

So the $2,000 a month is essentially what you've been putting away, correct?

With the loans?

Correct.

It was a lot less.

I understand.

But is that a zero-based budget?

Is that 2000?

There's no other margin left.

Is that essentially your margin if we were to look at your budget?

No, there's probably much more.

You could put three or four towards the debts a month.

Yeah.

So there's your answer.

By definition, you're not being aggressive enough.

Oh, boy, I had a feeling you were going to come off the top ropes on that one.

I just, I mean, I'm looking at these numbers and going, you're going to do this for three

more years at this rate?

Because I think, yes, that's too much sacrifice.

Four years to just slodge through this debt is just too long based on your numbers and

your income.

I agree.

I was just trying to give him enough time to let it sink in that he's not doing that.

That you have a margin.

So this is not reckless behavior.

That's how you position the question, right?

Who aggressive?

In other words, unwise.

But to George's point, I would have told you it was unwise to go $100,000 into student

loan debt for a master's.

But, you know, we're on the other side of this.

You guys are using the degrees, right?

You have great careers.

Yeah, I make a well above average salary and she probably makes above average teacher

salary.

Great.

So let's, in George, I want to take him somewhere here now because we've answered

your question.

And George has made a really strong challenge.

But I want to get to the emotion behind your question, okay?

And I want George, actually, I'm going to ask him a question and George will weigh in

on this, okay?

So Nick, here's the deal.

If something were to happen, a major emergency, George, let's have some fun.

Pick a garden variety of emergency that would be more than $1,000.

That would happen for someone like him.

And he would have to come up with more than $1,000 that he has.

It's summertime and Richmond, Virginia, come July, HFAC goes out, and they go, hey, man,

you got to replace this whole thing.

It's going to be $6,000.

All right.

So Nick, that's the scenario.

Based on what we all know now, what would you do?

Probably just make minimum student loan payments and just pay that payment up front.

Boom.

Make your $1,000 from the emergency fund and take your next paycheck.

And you go, all right, we're going to get this done and we're going to cash flow it

and then we're going to hit play on the baby steps once we're through this mess.

Now, the reason that I walked you through that, Nick, is because I want you to deal with

the emotion that was behind that question that you asked us.

You have fear that you're being irresponsible and couldn't take care of wife and baby

if something were to happen, that would go above and beyond the $1,000 emergency fund

true false.

Yeah, that's accurate.

Okay.

And so we just walk through it.

Yeah.

So it's important to not just call into a show like this and get our logical and philosophical

and methodology answer, which we gave you, but not address the emotion.

Because if you don't address the emotion and do that exercise, it goes in one or out

the other.

That's what I find.

Isn't that true, George?

There's a powerful emotion here.

You don't want to just pay off debt more aggressively because Georgian Ken told you to.

You want to do it because you truly want financial peace for your family because you feel

at risk with $70,000 owed to the student loan companies and you want that income back

in your life, don't you?

How good is that going to feel when those payments don't leave anymore?

Yeah, it probably will feel very good and I really, I started off with some of the

$360 payments and then these recent months had been more like $3,700.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Great job.

Keep it up.

So there it is.

You know what to do now.

So go do it.

Let's go to Hannah and Cincinnati, Ohio.

Hannah, how can we help?

Hi.

So me and my husband, we inherited a house from his family and we have another house and

we have a mortgage on, so we're in the process of selling this house for the next couple

months and with paying off all of our debts and paying family back, we're going to have

an extra like $100,000 and we're kind of torn between I want to pay off the mortgage

on our current house, just pay $100,000 to that.

He wants to save the money and invest it and just kind of make money from that point.

So we're kind of at a crossroads of what to do with this extra money that we're going

to have.

So at that point, you guys will be in baby steps 4, 5, 6, no debt with a fully funded

emergency fund and $100,000.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, what if you split the difference?

What if you max out two Roth IRAs for the year and you put a bunch toward the mortgage

and you enjoy some of it and give some of it?

So I'll add to the list of things to do with this $100,000.

Oh, yeah.

That would also...

Would that make everyone happy?

You got $15K growing with compound growth for retirement.

You put another $70 or $60 on the mortgage and that still leaves you with some fund money.

Yeah, because I mean, so really, they're saying that we could sell it for like $280 to $290

and obviously we had to pay taxes and stuff for paying his grandpa back because it's

a grandpa's house and he's just giving it to us and then we took out a small loan to

fix the house up because we just don't have...

We have about 13 month olds, we don't have the time to fix it.

So paying off all that, paying off my student loans, car, a couple credit cards, we're

yeah, it's like an extra, I think, like $125,000, so I said, like, let's just...

Hey, while we're at it, let's put, you know, $510,000 into $529 plan for that little 13 month

old.

Oh, yeah, that was also part of like the discussion of like, we need to start doing something

for him for school in the future.

So we're in a very tight, like, thankful, grateful situation financially, so I'm just

like, okay, what will you do the most, the most bang out of our buck of, hey, let's do

this smartly and smartly and the best way possible.

Yeah.

Well, either way, everything you're doing is building wealth, whether that's paying down

the mortgage, that's building equity and it's a forced savings plan with a fixed rate

that you're making, which is your mortgage interest rate.

So it's not lost, the money's not locked up in the house forever, that's part of your

net worth, that's part of your state.

And so that's part of it.

Now we're going to invest over here, we're going to get some compound growth going.

You guys are young, right?

Um, I am 31 in a few weeks and he is 28, 28, 28, 28.

So think about that.

If you guys are in your early 30s with a paid for house, are you going to be okay in retirement?

Um, yeah, I am, I have almost 100,000 and he has like 120,000.

Oh, that's great.

So lay out the numbers.

Your income, 15% or more, once the house is paid off, invested, you guys will have millions

and millions of dollars well before you even retire.

And so I'm not concerned about building wealth necessarily.

I just think we need to split the difference to enjoy life now and build wealth for the

future.

And so I think splitting the difference will make everyone a little bit upset and that might

be the solution.

George, you need your own judge show where they come to you with one idea and you say,

I'll tell you one.

I see your idea.

I'm going to raise you five different ideas and everybody's so happy, George.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair wins credit union studio alongside George

Camel.

I'm Ken Coleman, excited to have you with us, triple eight eight two five two two five

is the phone number.

Jessica is up in Seattle, Washington, Jessica, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Sure.

So I am a newly single mom.

I just left the domestic violence situation and I'm I'm going to do some kind of trying

to figure out what should I prioritize first?

Well first of all, we're so sorry, you've been through this and we're glad that you're

safe.

I hope you're safe, yes?

Yes.

Okay.

Great.

What does life look like now for you guys?

You guys?

You and the kids.

So currently we are in a shelter.

And I am going to get assistance with housing assistance.

So I'm looking for a for a rental right now, but how that looks like it's a two year

program.

So each each every six months, they at least start with the hundred percent covering rental

up to just independent.

So the hundred seventy five fifty and twenty five.

So right now I'm kind of an unemployed.

I only have the thousand dollar savings trying to figure out what to do now.

I'm looking into going back to school.

Do you have any debt?

Twenty thousand.

What is that comprised of?

Personal loans, credit cards and a big chunk of it is probably about fifteen thousand

is a student debt.

Okay.

And what kind of schooling are you considering?

So I'm trying to maximize my time with housing assistance.

So I'm looking into going to school for a dental hygienist.

How long of a program is that?

If I go to a trade school, that would be about two years and how much would that cost?

A hundred thousand.

Okay.

That's not an option.

So is there a cheaper option to get into dental hygienist work?

I'm guessing not, but you were about ready to say something else and I cut you off.

Yeah.

I've been exploring like community college.

There is a program, but I would have to do, because I have my associates, so that would

I would just have to take some science classes and that would be about a year and a half.

And what's the cost on that?

That one is about fifteen thousand, but I would have to do a year and a half of prerequisites

and then the two-year program.

Okay.

So three years, fifteen thousand or two years, a hundred thousand.

Yeah.

Okay.

I just want to make sure that we put this out here.

Let's take the two years, a hundred thousand off the table, okay, and let's also press pause

on this idea of the fifteen thousand dollar plan.

That's doable, but that to me is a pause, and we get to that later.

We need to get ourselves employed, get ourselves out of the government housing and the assistance

and get rid of all this debt, and George is going to walk through the baby steps.

But I want to talk, I just want to cut off this idea of I need to go to school right

now while I'm in this shelter situation.

No.

What you need to do is get employed if they'll allow that.

Do they allow that if you were to get full-time employment, would they kick you out?

I believe not.

It's grown.

So yeah.

Okay, great.

So all I'm trying to do is George is going to walk you through the get out of debt and get

stable financially.

But I really want you to hear me on this.

School is down the road.

And that option is still going to be there, but the fifteen thousand dollar option I like.

All right.

Why in the world I'd rather spend a little bit more time and way less money on that?

And so that's done.

We're not going to touch that right now.

You have bigger emergencies, George.

So Jessica, you've got a thousand dollar starter emergency fund.

You do have a bunch of debt to clean up.

So to Ken's point, if you could work full-time right now and clean up the debt, get a fully

funded emergency fund.

Now it's going to be a whole lot easier to cash flow any program that you go through.

Correct?

Yes.

What do you do for childcare if you're working full-time?

My children go to school.

Oh, great.

Okay.

So they're taking care of during the day.

You can go work.

Do you have reliable transportation?

I do, yes.

Fantastic.

Okay.

You are ahead of the curve in a lot of ways.

That's awesome.

So you said, what do I prioritize?

Number one is your own health and safety and your kid's health and safety.

We've got that covered?

Yes.

Number two, we're going to protect our four walls.

That's our housing, food, utilities, transportation.

You have housing covered.

Can you pay for all of the rest, currently?

Um, I'm going to be, um, no, I'm going to be honest now.

So we need to income ASAP in order to just even, even with housing covered, which is

a huge blessing, we still have other needs.

Yeah.

And so we're going to do whatever we can working right now, even if it's a part-time

retail job or hospitality job to bring in some money to cover the gap while we look

for something that's full-time.

Okay.

And that means you're going to make minimum payments on the debts if you even can.

And don't feel bad if you can't.

If you can only cover your four walls and that's how you need to get by right now, then

it's okay.

I'd rather you not fall behind on payments, but you're, yourself and your house need

to come first.

You see where we're going here?

Yeah.

So it's kind of a priority list of me, kids, the house, now we can focus on the other

things.

And that's only going to come through income, like Ken talked about.

So have you looked at jobs in your area that would make sense for someone with your experience?

Uh, we live in a rural area, so, um, there's not much locally, probably the closest

to the better hour and, um, for, I guess, uh, support with my children.

I'm pretty much the only ones I don't want to be too far out.

And you're stuck in this area because of their school, is that what?

What's going on?

Yeah.

And the housing.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

But let's just, all right, let's just, let's just brainstorm really quickly, okay?

So are there any kind of big box stores, like big stores that are employing hourly workers?

Um, probably about 45 minutes away, yes.

Okay.

Is that too far?

Could we make the 45 minutes work?

Um, I can make it work, I just, I think just for emergencies and, you know, anything.

But you know what?

I'm telling you, mama bears like you have, have had to face far worse, and I believe in

you.

Yeah.

I'm just telling you right now, you cannot have this mindset of, well, I live in a rural

area, and there's not a lot here.

Does it matter?

I have an ignorant question.

What do other people who live around you do for work?

I don't know.

I don't know.

There's a lot of big houses though.

We start talking to people.

I would start up some conversations.

Wait a second.

Wait, wait, wait.

I just got an idea.

You said there's a lot of big houses.

Those houses need to be cleaned.

Those houses need to be cleaned, and I'll guarantee you, I know the type of people that

live in those houses.

They're usually unhappy with somebody that's working for them, and if you come in and do

something better than them, then you are going to get the job.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a great, I actually used to do that a few days ago.

Perfect.

You know what's great about that is.

You're minutes away from the kiddos if something were to arise.

You're in a safe environment, and it's flexible.

It's flexible.

They don't care.

They just need to clean.

And you can charge 200 to cleaning, couldn't you?

Yeah.

Alright, let's go.

You have five of those a week.

That's one cleaning a day.

It's a thousand bucks a week.

That changes your life.

Yeah.

I would start knocking on some doors and just say, hey, listen, I live in the area.

I do house cleaning.

Here's my card.

You can print and cheap at your local, you know, staples or whatever's nearby.

Jessica, this is not even in the category of would you do whatever it takes we know

you would.

This is something that's doable.

It's not demeaning.

It's safe.

Go.

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All right, Sarah is up next in Phoenix, Sarah, how can we help?

Hi there.

My husband is getting laid off in May.

He's been applying for jobs for almost a year now it feels like and he works in ministry.

So that's why we've been, he's been applying for jobs for a while already because he's

not making the money for our family of five.

He makes like $45,000 a year and we've been able to stretch that for a while, but there's

things that we haven't been able to have like life insurance, can't care for debt, just

lots of things.

He can't find a job and it's getting down to the wire.

And so we're not sure whether we should move in with his parents and him get some sort

of certification that will get him a job that pays well enough or also that's the trouble

because anything that is hiring, it's like $18 an hour, which is not enough or he should

join the military or if he should start about business, we're just, we don't know where

to go.

I think we will look at some of those options, but I don't think that that's the primary

thing we need to be looking at is my guess, I could be wrong.

How much debt do you guys have?

A lot.

Well, lay that out for us.

Lay that out for us, go smallest to largest, Georgia's right and it all down.

Okay, smallest, it takes student loans, it's about $20,000 and then mine, I have $40,000

with a federal loan and then my mom, this is complicated, took out the parent plus

loans and it's for another 40,000 and she expects me to pay her back for that eventually.

Did you agree to that up front?

When you say expects, was that just like a handshake agreement, did you say, hey, I'll

pay you back?

Yeah, I think I did when I was like 18.

So like right when I started college, I didn't know, I just signed up for it, you know,

when I guess I said, I said, yeah, and then our house, our mortgage and that's it.

How much is the mortgage?

What's the balance and what's the payment?

It's 85,000 right now for the house and then our payments only like eight, 30 a month.

Okay.

Well, there's some good news in the mix.

So we definitely need more income to pay off $100,000 in consumer debt.

Do you work outside the home?

No, that's, I just started a nutritional, a holistic nutrition business.

So I haven't really made any money from that yet.

Is it a multi-level marketing thing?

No.

This is on your own?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How much money do you think if you were to get a bump from the 45,000?

How much do you think he needs to make for you to feel like, okay, we've got enough income

coming in?

Yeah.

That was our goal is 55,000 total.

Total.

Yeah.

So another 10,000.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, it's probably not enough just that to start paying off debt really.

Well, that's probably right.

I don't know.

I'm asking this question, George will kind of walk you through here, but I definitely

don't think he needs to start a business and I don't think you need to start your business.

I think you need to press pause on your business and let's see if you can go get a 25, 30,

40,000 dollar job.

And then he is also, he's not waiting around to make some giant career move at this point

because we're under the gun three months away or less to be laid off.

So he's going out and doing whatever we're going to do whatever for a season.

And let's say both of you can make 40.

It's 80,000 now based on the debt, you just what?

I just had a baby five months ago and I really don't want to put my babies in daycare.

Okay.

I get it.

But that's again, assuming that daycare is your only option.

We don't have any family around here.

Your husband's in ministry at a church, I bet the church has got some old ladies in it,

right?

Yeah.

Well, not that could watch my our kids.

Do they have a daycare as part of the church?

No, it's a small church.

What's keeping you guys in this area?

If he's laid off and you're not working?

Nothing really.

We love the area, but I mean, we could move back to where his parents are and that would be helpful.

But it's more expensive over there the cost of living is.

I just, here's what I'm here in Sarah, you called us for some advice and everything

we throw at you feels like a long shot the way you're answering it.

And I think that's a mindset issue.

Yeah.

You are in some deep water right now, yes?

Yeah.

How do people act when they're thrown into deep water?

I'm not the panic.

Urgent.

At least.

What do they do?

They start flapping their arms and kicking their legs and they make some effort to get out

of deep water.

Yes or no?

Yeah.

And my husband is like he's applying.

He's not working.

There's a difference.

He has a second job.

He does.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

I didn't get that information.

All I heard was is he's in ministry.

So I'm operating on information I've been given.

Here's the point I'm trying to make.

I think there needs to be some urgency.

And I think living with our parents or his parents, I don't think that's the answer.

I think it is we need to get out of this.

So enough of my mindset stuff, I'm very concerned if I can challenge you.

I'm concerned about the mindset that I'm hearing.

Now let's get to the numbers.

George, based on that rundown of numbers, what realistically do they need to be doing?

Well as it plays out, if you guys kept a 40 or $50,000 salary, you would probably be

paying off this debt for the next decade.

That's just the math.

That's not me just trying to be negative.

Now if you guys made $100,000 and you had $100,000 to pay off, probably could do it in

three issues, maybe four max.

And so that's the math we're up against here is you need to make double the income or

more in order to pay off this debt in a reasonable amount of time.

So the baby steps exist, those first three for aggressive gazelle intensity.

It takes most people about three years to get all the way through that from baby step

one to three, completely out of debt, fully funded emergency fund.

And I don't want to see you guys treading water all because well, it's only the job he

can get out here, not much out here.

He's been trying, I get it, but just filling out applications and all the kind of stuff.

And while the clock is ticking down, here's what I don't think you realize and I'm coming

at this much older and much more experienced.

So this isn't like me looking down my nose at you.

I'm just telling you the reality is what you don't realize is what the debt and the stress

of him not having a better job and the shoe falling in May that he loses his job, the

debt payments, your baby is feeling all that anxiety and you don't even know it.

And so what I'm preaching is a mindset of urgency and you're letting life happen to

you instead of happen to life.

So yeah, if you got a move where you can get child care for free, but it's a little bit

more expensive, that's fine because you can make a lot more money.

And if you got parents, a grandparents to take care of the baby, great.

And you guys both have degrees.

Did you graduate?

Yeah, he's got a degree in communication studies, I have a degree in fashion merchandising.

Perfect.

You get jobs in those fields.

Oh my gosh.

If he gets out of ministry and does, I mean, there's a lot of jobs in communication.

I've got one of those degrees.

I made use of it.

You need to go get you a job at a fancy department store like Nordstrom or Bloomingdale's.

Use that degree, you know, learn how to do makeup, something.

You've got some real experience and skill set, true or false?

Yeah, in nutrition, not, not really a test of what you guys think.

You got a degree in it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you would hire him and I look at your resume, I go, she's actually got a degree

in fashion merchandising.

She knows something.

You're just hitting every serve I hit to you.

You just hit it back.

So I don't know what to tell you, Sarah.

We see this as actually a young couple who could come together and lock arms and double

their income by just sheer effort.

And no matter what you choose, it's going to be hard.

Moving across the country and higher cost of living is going to be hard.

Something where you are is also going to be hard.

And right now we get to choose the thing that has our best shot of getting us out of this

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Well, really a couple things.

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Again, we'll see, but make good decisions.

And to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy

yourself with confidence, no matter what the market is doing, go to ramsysolutions.com slash

market ramsysolutions.com slash market john is up in Birmingham, Alabama john, how can

we help today?

Hey, how are you doing well?

So I'm about 65,000 in debt, 45,000 on the car that I least from a wife, 5,000 on credit

cards, and about 15,000 on other unsecured loans and living paycheck to paycheck, I do

work three jobs, but living paycheck to paycheck and don't have any savings, nothing for retirement.

I'm 42 and just wondering if being able from this point to get to millionaire status.

And on, on, on home, and we're renting as well, what do you, what do you make in these

three jobs combined?

So combined all together, I'm bringing roughly between 105 and 125 a year.

What do you do?

What are the three jobs?

Well, I do a little security, granite fabrication and law enforcement.

Which one is the full time day job?

And security is night time, full time.

What's the long story?

It's only, it's, it's a part time.

Huh.

Okay.

Did you pick those up out of necessity to pay bills?

Yeah, I did.

Well, I mean, I've had, I've had two of the jobs for a long time and I just come back to

the granite.

I've been in it for several years, since around 99 and I come back to it just to kind

of try to get straightened out and try to get some of this off of me.

I've been listening to Dave's baby steps, millionaires and, and the other, the other book

he has out and it's just had me intrigued.

And so I'm doing everything I can, but it seems like every time I get a step, step ahead,

I go, I go two steps backwards with something.

I've got three kids in a life.

So, um, yes, is your wife working outside the home?

No, my wife had two strokes back in 2019, which she is a hundred percent whale.

She's good.

It's great.

But she doesn't work.

Um, we, I just decided that, and she doesn't want to work either as far as outside.

She's a homemaker.

She stays home and takes care of the house and the kids, um, what their needs.

So, um, so why did we need a $50,000 car?

Well, she's never had a new car.

And, um, and I, I guess I started listening to Dave a little too late and you guys a little

too late, but, um, that's, that's what we got.

We kind of got stuck with it after, um, going there to get it, we was going to buy and

we got stuck in the lease instead of buying and now it's, it's already over.

So they, a lot, 10,000 miles per year, uh, and we're already over to pay an extra on

top of that.

What's your lease payment?

Well, I'm not paying extra, um, it's 628, 96 per month, um, but no, I'm not, I'm not

paying extra, but if we don't buy the car or if I don't jump into something different,

and so that's, see, I paid $8,500 cash down and I've paid for it for four years.

I've paid over 16,000, yeah, that is brutal because you, you need to either have the full

amount to pay it off and a lump sum, which you don't have or a lease transfer, which if,

even that's allowed, it's going to be really difficult to find someone else to take it over.

Right.

And so there's not a lot of good options with leases.

That's why they're my least favorite way to drive a vehicle and I hate car loans, but

leases take the cake.

Right.

So do you guys have money in savings at all?

We don't have any savings and no retirement whatsoever.

No retirement whatsoever.

Okay.

Well, I can give you some good news.

U.S. is it still possible for me to become a millionaire?

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes.

You guys are done playing this game.

We're done.

We're done.

I swam on the phone with you guys.

You're working too hard.

You know that?

You're working too hard to be broke.

Yeah.

You're going to pick up a fourth job just to keep up with another payment at this point.

And so you guys are done.

That means your wife is done too.

She is ready to downgrade her lifestyle in order to have a financial future that's worth

having.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Well, here's what it looks like.

It looks like you working more.

You're going to keep the three jobs.

Keep making 125K as we knock out the 65K.

That is your only goal.

For probably the next, can you put like three or four grand a month towards these debts?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, I just don't know the strategy to go with, but yeah, I can, I definitely can.

You're just going to debt snowball them.

So the smallest balance, probably one of these little credit cards, that's your first

one to go.

You're going to make minimum payments on everything else, make your normal lease payment, the

unsecured loans, make the minimum payments, and on that lowest balance, you're going to

attack it with the vengeance.

And if you can throw 3600 a month at this thing, it's done in 18 months.

That's the color and all.

That's everything.

I mean, 60, you said 65,000 total.

So just that's correct.

That's correct.

65,000.

Here's what's off from me, George and John.

John just told us, George, that he can't seem to get ahead, something always happens.

Then you ask him, if he could throw 3000 plus a month away, and he instantly says, yes.

So that tells me something's off.

What's off?

Well, I guess, I guess the, this is what's off.

I get ahead and then I turn, when I get ahead, I put out everything.

I don't want.

So my snowball, I get, this is what I've been, I've been calculated, my snowball is off.

So I'll put so much to this and then get back behind and then have to turn around and

borrow again.

Behind for what?

Are you not paying your bills?

Well, no, it's like, like I'll pay own something.

So as of right now, I was 65.

So I've been paying toward things, but then I have to turn around and borrow.

Then I get back behind again.

So it's a budgeting issue.

You're not properly allocating your paychecks.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's what I, I guess that would be right.

Okay.

That's what I was digging for.

And George, that's where the coaching's got to happen right here is to really truly

get control of the money so you know where it is because that makes sense now.

You've got the income.

It just sounds like you're not putting it where it needs to go.

And then it's disappearing into bills and lifestyle and spending.

So I'm going to gift you every dollar, John, the premium version.

And I want you to do something very specific.

You're going to click on the paycheck planning tool.

And it's going to help show you where all the bills fall by the due dates.

So you're going to enter all that in.

It will actually show you if and when you're going to run out of money.

And then you can move the, move the bills around so that they fall behind the paycheck.

Right.

Right.

Because right now everything's happening and you're going, I don't know, the money to cover

this next bill.

And so it will visualize that all for you inside of every dollar.

And I think that will change the game for you.

On top of having a little bit of buffer in your checking account.

Because right now you, it sounds like you're riding real tight to cover all the bills.

Yeah.

Right now, as a matter of fact, my checking account is in the negative.

It changed me to say that, but it's in the negative right now.

Oh, boy.

Have you, can you turn off the overdraft with your bank?

Because right now you're getting dinged 35 bucks a pop every time that happens.

Yeah.

So just turn it off.

Yeah.

Transaction won't go through.

Okay.

And that, that'll, you should reflect the reality that you guys are in.

And then next paycheck, leave 500 bucks in there.

Never let your checking account go below 500.

That becomes your floor.

And then you'll budget with everything on top of that.

And so every dollar walk you through this, John, on top of giving you personalized recommendations

on how to find extra margin because you have a great income, you're working your tail

off.

I want you to feel it.

So you can become a millionaire.

I did the numbers for you.

45 is 67.

You invest 15% of a hundred thousand dollar income.

You'll have over 1.5 million dollars.

As 22 years of consistent investing, but you got to get out of debt first, got to get

that emergency fund, and I'm giving you three years to do all that.

You got this.

If collectors are blowing up your phone every day and you're living in constant fear of

the next call, you're not living.

You're surviving.

You don't need more noise or more stress.

You need help.

You can trust.

That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group.

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It's any advertising.

Results may vary.

But that's what I was guaranteed.

Scott is up in Denver, Colorado.

Scott, how can we help?

Hi, so I was calling to see if I could get some advice.

Long story short, my wife and I had purchased a house about three years ago.

We were in good, we were making all our payments.

Then recently, she got laid off, had to get a job.

Got a job as soon as possible and was able to help again in that sense.

Currently we're kind of living paycheck to paycheck with the house, and it's kind of

eating us up.

So I'm trying to think of what would be the best solution or how to go about this in

the sea if selling our house would be the next best steps.

Sorry to hear that.

What do you guys make a year now?

So now we're making about 96,000 a year.

That's kind of like after taxes, I guess, or what's your monthly take on pay?

Give me two seconds.

I can crunch it for you.

If you're saying that's your take home, is it going to be eight grand a month?

Just about, yeah.

Okay.

And what's your mortgage payment?

20, 28.

Okay.

So nothing's on fire here.

Is it higher than I would like?

You know, we say 25% of your after tax income, that would be two grand.

2800 is not end of the world.

I would not go selling your house tomorrow because of this.

You should still have, you know, over five grand in margin to then live your life.

So the question is, what is all that getting eaten up by?

Do you guys have other debt?

So I mean, we do, we have, I have my student loans, which is just a lump sum and then a

smaller lump sum.

I was the total of all your consumer debt.

So no credit cards, but just student loans is about 27.

Okay.

Anything else?

I'd not that I can think of.

No.

Okay.

So why are you paycheck to paycheck?

I don't know.

I mean, we, you know, we, we, we save.

So I mean, we, we try to save us, but we can.

We pide.

And then we also set aside money for, for, you know, for the mortgage and then kind of

end up scraps.

I mean, I can't really have you guys ever sat down as a couple and completed an every

dollar budget when you just lay out, okay, $8,000 coming in.

Here's everything going out.

If we follow this to a T, this is what will happen.

Yeah.

No, we do.

We do.

We do budget meetings, but, you know, I think my, my issue is that I, I don't, I, I don't

know.

It's hard to say.

No, it's not.

Hold on a second.

I'm, I'm listening here.

And I'm just going to be real blunt with you.

Either you, either you do know and you're not comfortable owning up to it or you don't

know.

And I, I got a gut.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

My gut is you guys actually might do a budget, but you don't follow it.

That's my guess.

That sounds right.

Yes.

What do you mean?

It sounds right.

Well, you're right.

Okay.

You, you see what I'm going here?

Like, you're, you're being coached right now and you can't coach somebody who doesn't

go, oh, okay, yeah, I do see that.

And because either we're right or we're wrong.

And so I heard that.

And so the issue then, George is, that's what I thought.

They do a budget and I, I'm, and I think that's a generous application.

And it's like me making a workout plan.

Do I do the workout?

Hmm.

Right.

George, this is exact.

Look, pick on George.

George had a workout plan that he found online and he went into the gym and, and he only

was in there for 15 minutes.

And I went to the sauna and steam room and didn't actually do the workout.

Would you call that working out?

No.

No.

I don't think that what you're doing is budgeting.

Okay.

So that's, and again, it's not to pick on you.

It's to help you see that's why you can't answer George with certainty.

Right.

We want to solve the right problem here.

And the truth is, yes, it stinks that the income went down, but you have a great income

still.

I mean, you guys are making six figures after tax.

I don't know how you grew up, but that's rich in my neck of the woods.

And so your mortgage payment isn't the thing that's syncing you.

I think it's the lifestyle creep and spending that you now, it's been exposed because of

the lower income because you could stomach it when you guys were making more.

And now you're going, man, things feel tight, which means if you look at your bank statement,

there might be a better picture of your real financial reality of, man, we spent a lot

on DoorDash this month.

We've been going out to eat.

We have all these subscriptions.

We have all these luxuries that we really can't afford right now while we clean up debt.

So if I'm in your shoes, I'm not going to be doing any saving or investing right now.

I'm just going to be cleaning up those student loans.

What do all those payments add up to for the student loans?

It's like $325.

Okay.

You'll get a raise right there.

That's, you know, almost $4 grand a year that you'll have back in your life once you

pay these student loans down.

And then you'll have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months.

How much do you have in savings now?

I mean, we do have 10 grand in savings.

Okay.

So we're not quite following the steps.

If you follow in the baby steps, you would take nine of that 10 and throw it at the

debt.

Okay.

Which gets you down to 18.

And if you stop saving and investing right now, you could probably knock out 18 grand

pretty quick, like what, four months.

All right.

So by fall, we are now completely debt-free, restocking our emergency fund.

And by 2027, you guys have no debt, fully funded emergency fund.

Your income's probably gone up.

And the mortgage payment will now feel very reasonable.

Now, I hope your income goes up.

And the mortgage payment becomes 25%.

But I don't think that's the root issue here that you called in about.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Is there a room for her to make more and get back to what she was making?

I think eventually, I mean, she had a tech job.

Now, it's a, yeah, basically just different field, different everything.

She was just able to get something as soon as possible, you know, and kind of got a job

with what she wanted to try.

And so good.

Yeah.

So she's, she's able to try that.

I mean, and enjoy and try this job that she's always had an interest in.

I mean, it's just a little bit less, but that's okay.

Well, I think she'll make up the difference because as Ken Coleman talks about, if you

enjoy what you do, you're probably going to be better at it.

You're going to want to become a master at it and excel at it, which usually leads to

promotions and races.

Yeah.

That's right.

So, appreciate the call.

But I think you guys just lock in, you know, and actually know where our money is going.

And that means tracking the transactions as the month goes on and not just setting it

and then forgetting it and looking at next month going, all right, let's plan for the

other month.

That's right.

Let's go to Chris and Boise, Idaho.

Chris, how can we help?

Hey, how you doing?

All right.

I've been following you guys pretty religiously because a young man and I've done pretty

well for myself, I haven't bought a car in 10 years.

My truck's actually almost 15 years old, but it's going strong and I had to give my, my

wife's car away to my son because he needed it for work.

So now the first time in 10 years, we've got to buy a car and I'm thinking about going

against all the things that I learned over the years and taking that alone.

I know, I know, I know, listen, before we say anything, before we say anything, I just

would love to know what your mental process was when you called into the show since you've

listened to Dave and presumably us for many, many years.

What was your thought process in asking that question?

So what do you think we were going to say?

I know, I know.

So here's the issue.

So I'm retired and if I pull the money out of my IRA, it's going to be a 20% tax on

it.

Don't do that.

Yeah.

If I take out a short term loan, you know, right now they're free to, you know, 2 to 4%

if I do.

Chris, you told me this has been like a decades-long process.

You know, you got to save up for things that you want over time.

Why is it now all of a sudden an emergency?

Well, it's, it's not really an emergency, but we want to do something, you know, we want

to buy a nice car if we haven't had a nice car.

Well, let me rephrase that.

You want to live beyond your means and you did not have the discipline to save up for

it.

And so you want a shortcut with a loan that's now going to add stress and risk to your

life.

Well, it's, it's not really that.

I mean, we've got, we've got a lot of money.

I don't know.

If you have a lot of money, then buy in cash.

Well, but then I'm paying 20% for-

Then you don't have a lot of money.

If you're talking about retirement money, we're not going to touch that if it's going

to be taxed and penalized.

So we got to save up and have money we can actually use right now.

That's liquid, a high yield savings account.

And so it sounds like you just, you got to save up.

We're going to be down to one car for a little while until we can do that.

I think it's great advice.

I don't know why you needed a shout.

I don't know.

I think that was necessary.

Because he knows better.

You know, stop yelling at the caller.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds credit union studio.

George Campbell is sitting alongside me.

I'm Ken Coleman in warning to all of you.

He is a little frisky today.

He's a little upset.

He's had it up to where, George.

Top of the head.

Up to here.

And I know I'm not that tall, but I'm telling it's still that's pretty high.

He's a little upset.

So we'll see what happens here.

Beware callers.

Oh, Michael is up in Orlando.

Michael.

How can we help?

Oh, man.

I hope you're not too upset.

How you guys doing?

I'll be kind.

I'm here to protect you because he is steaming.

I'm kidding.

We're having a little bit of fun.

Go ahead.

All right.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Thank you guys.

So I'm not sure if I'm a little too, what's the word like if I'm exaggerating or it's

a really big problem, but I just wanted to hear what you guys think.

So basically I got laid off from my job as a healthcare retention specialist.

About April of last year, so maybe eight months, I guess.

And I ended up going back into my family's business.

So that did not work out as well as a thought it would for me.

And it caused a lot of family drama.

So I kind of drifted off from that.

And since about November or December, I would say I've been looking for new work.

And I went back to school working on my PMP certification.

I've always followed you guys for since my childhood, basically.

So you've been out of work for a few months.

What's your question for us?

Yeah.

So I mean, I have been out of work.

I do flip cars.

That's you can call it a side also.

So I mean, I carry myself that way.

Okay.

I went to school for my PMP certification.

I went back to work for that.

And since then I've been looking for work.

I do travel a lot.

So how can we how can we help you today?

So basically I'm wondering of the schooling put me about $9,000 in debt.

Okay.

And you finished again, may you have the PMP certification now?

No, I do not.

I have the PAPM.

So it's basically the associate of the PMP.

Okay.

Okay.

So you got $9,000 in debt.

Yeah.

And I'm just a little worried because I haven't really found the work yet.

I'm looking for work as a project coordinator or assistant project manager.

At this point.

What's your payment?

What's your monthly payment on the 9,000?

So I think it's about we can I think it's about $4.50.

Any other debt at all?

No sir.

Okay.

So Michael, I love all the background.

You've given us fabulous context.

What is your question?

So I'm not exactly sure how I should approach this because I should approach what?

The debt?

The debt.

All right.

Let's assume that your question is how do I pay off the $9,000 as quick as I possibly

can?

What's the best way to do it, George?

You need income to do that.

Right now you're saying you don't have any income except for the car flipping, which

is just getting you by.

Right.

Okay.

Where are you living?

So I move back and forth.

Where are you living, Michael?

Just tell me right now where are you living?

Right now I'm in New York.

I'm going to go to India in a few days.

Why?

You say you're traveling all the time.

A guy whose broke shouldn't be traveling all the time.

Right.

I actually help out with my family.

They do some work over there.

So you're going to have time to be a missionary.

Are you going to need to make money?

I'm not going to get anything for myself.

Michael, what are we doing, buddy?

You need a job.

Like my screen says should I file for bankruptcy?

So you're telling me you're doing volunteer work while in the verge of bankruptcy?

Yes or no?

I guess you could say yes.

No, it's yes.

All right.

Yeah, you're right.

Yes.

So you need a job working at a gas station.

You need a job working at a warehouse.

You don't have time for this degree or certificate, whatever that is.

You've been floundering for too long.

Can we agree on that?

You've been just floundering.

You've been just floundering through life, bopping around in the pinball machine and just

hoping that you make it through.

Can we agree that's not a good strategy?

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely not.

We need some purpose.

We need some clarity.

We need some urgency.

But not bankruptcy.

Let's just boil this down.

You don't need to file bankruptcy for $9,000 worth of debt when you're an able-bodied

young man.

So you pay off the $9,000.

So George is going to tell you very straightforward how you let's assume the income is there and

he's got to go do that.

You get the project coordinator job.

Here's what you do.

$40,000, $45,000.

Or warehouse or gas station or whatever.

Just right now you need some income.

And by the way, it's not on the way to India.

All right, George.

How's he pay the $9,000?

So you were going to live like a broke person, which should be easy because right now that's

kind of how you're living.

But you're going to spend nothing outside of food utilities, housing, transportation, and

every other dollar that you can free up is going to go toward that debt.

And you'll pay it off pretty fast.

You can throw a thousand bucks a month at this thing you're done in nine months.

You're done before the end of the year.

That gets you to freedom.

But the thing is the $9,000 is not the major problem here.

Because for most people, that's nothing.

They make this guy's barely in debt.

Why is he calling the show?

There is a mindset issue here because you called in saying, I'm on the verge of bankruptcy

because I went into some student loan debt for a certification.

And that tells me there's a deeper issue here.

You've been living this way if you're a whole adult life without real purpose or clarity

or mentorship coaching.

And that's what we're here to do.

And so you need to get that job and you need to stop traveling.

You need to save up some money and avoid going to debt ever again.

And I hope you can do that.

At least you got the certification done.

I don't know what it takes to get to a full PMP.

If you need that to get the job, more money sounds like maybe they'll pay for it.

If you get a good job and you work your tail off, they'll go, hey, we'll send you back

to get the full PMP certification.

And I hope that helps.

All right, we're going to go to Sam in New York.

Sam, we got to get the quick question here straight forward.

And it looks like we can answer this one.

What's you got for us?

Okay.

I'm looking at my phone, K. It's with the common money company known and the choices

are mutual funds and there are no money companies.

The first rule, I mean, they get a cut, the second rule.

They get a cut to mutual funds and some of mutual funds, investors, other mutual funds.

I'm playing multiple layers of fees.

I'm thinking I might be just ahead just to take my money and go to one of these platforms

where there's zero trading fees and let's go by, you know, a couple of shares of the Dow.

If I went that or a couple of shares, the S&P 500, a couple of shares of the Russell.

I mean, the Russell.

So the question is, should you, so the question is, should you do your own trade?

You need to manage it, right?

What's that?

So we got it.

Should you do your own trading?

Should you be your own stock investor broker?

All right.

If you want to invest in a Roth IRA and you want to open that yourself,

you've done your research, you want to just invest in the S&P, you can absolutely do that

with low fees.

But I would actually look into what you're really paying with your 401K.

I doubt it's as much as you think it is when you look at the expense ratios.

But start with the Roth IRA and then once you max that out, go back to your 401K.

And you'll be fine in the long run.

Your returns should beat any expenses there are.

It's that time again, folks.

Tax season is here.

I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face

your taxes.

But here's a better idea.

If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today.

That way they can take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and

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Search TaxPro to find one who serves your area with excellence.

That's RamseySolutions.com slash TaxPro.

All right.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refide Default to Private Student Loans.

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Today's question comes from Ethan in New Mexico.

He says, I'm an unmarried sales rep in my mid-20s and considering buying my first home.

I want it to be a blessing not a burden.

So I'm confused as to why you use net take home pay to determine the recommended monthly

payment and other money experts go off of gross income.

I understand the difference, but would appreciate an explanation about the why behind your recommendation.

Okay.

So to be clear, Ethan is talking about our housing parameter.

So your rent or mortgage should be no more than 25% of your after tax monthly income.

And he's wondering, why do you say after tax?

Oh, these other guys say gross incomes fine or 30% of your gross income.

Here's why your net income versus gross can vary greatly depending on where you live.

Just ask anybody in California, their gross income does not mean that's how much they

get to use in our economy.

And so net income is a much better indicator of your financial stability as far as what

you can actually use to pay your bills.

So net income, yes, it's more conservative than your gross income, 25% is more conservative

than most people suggest, but it is to allow you to get through the other baby steps.

So baby step four, five, six, investing for the future, saving for kids college, paying

off the house early, which is something that most people don't do.

So that's why it's conservative.

And if you're an unmarried sales rep in your mid 20s, you got time on your side to buy

a house.

Don't rush into it.

Just wait until you can do it to where it's a blessing.

Yeah.

That's my take.

Dave may have a different explanation of his parameter, but I agree with it and it worked

for me.

I like it.

I liked it.

Jefferson is up in Indianapolis, Jefferson, how can we help?

Yeah.

I had a question on, well, I first started working and I set up my retirement to increase

1% every year and now that's over years later.

And I have some debt and I'm wondering if I should back off the retirement to pay down

the debt and then push it back up later because my company only offers 1% match.

So it's not like I'm getting much pretty much from them.

Yeah.

How much debt do you have?

About 68,000.

Okay.

And how much do you make?

Together in my life and I bring home that 140.

Awesome.

So how long do you think if you paused investing, you would save the amount you're invested,

you know, that you're percentage you're investing, which is how much?

What's the percentage?

Uh, it'd probably be, oh, or the amount 13% 13% and how much do you make?

I make myself 82.

Okay.

So you would gain 10 grand back for the year if you paused investing for one year, which

would get you at a dead faster.

Yeah.

Now, are you still going to be able to retire if you do that?

Are you going to be okay with your nest egg if we come back swinging at 15% or more

for the rest of your life?

It should be.

Okay.

That's what I would do.

Only 33.

So I should have to.

Oh, you got plenty of time on your side.

So I'm making 140K, you know, if you throw, let's say, how much do you think you could

throw right now towards the dead if you paused investing, which would give you, you know,

as a decent chunk, 833 bucks back in your life every month?

So we have, I told a bunch of silver coins recently, so I have almost 20,000.

I have them mutual fund.

Great.

Sorry.

Money market account.

Okay.

But we have to do a new roof inside of our houses here.

So I've been holding on to that to do that first and then whatever's left from that.

I can throw at it.

Okay.

So I mean, the new roof might take, it might take 20 grand these days.

I'm going to do myself.

So I have to do by the supply.

So I shouldn't probably be a lot less than that.

Wow.

That's impressive.

Okay.

So let's say you got 58, you know, grand, so you've 10 grand, you paid down to 58.

Could you throw, I don't know, 5 grand a month towards this dead at that point?

Probably not 5 grand because we have two kids and they're both in daycare and that eats

up a lot.

But we can probably do maybe an extra grand a month.

So how much total going towards the dead?

It would be between 2 and 2,500 a month.

Okay.

So I'll do the math for you.

2,500 a month.

It would take you roughly two years if you did it that way.

Now if you can free it more money, it'll take you less time, obviously.

So that would be the goal is worst case where out of debt in two years and then I'm back

to investing not 13% but 15% until the house is paid off and then you can invest even more

beyond that and catch up.

So you got plenty of time.

You still got three decades of a working career.

So I have no doubt you'll catch up, but right now let's get rid of this debt and stay

out.

But I want to challenge you.

What would you say that you could do to shorten that timeline that George just threw

at you?

I've got some other stuff I could probably sell in a couple of times, I was like making

a syrup and making numbers.

That's where I was going, knowing your skill set.

So now the fun exercise, George gave you a great starting point and so now it's okay

what would I, how much money would I need to make to do it in 12 months?

And you put that number out then you go, how can I make that money?