How Honest Can You Be?

0:00Welcome to this Make-In-Mine podcast, where we question the role of alcohol in our lives without rule, shame, or judgment. I'm Annie Grace and I'm so thrilled to have you with us today. In this special series, I'm inviting you into something truly unique and deeply personal. You're going to be listening in on real one-on-one coaching sessions between some of our certified This Make-In-Mine coaches and members of our community who are on their own journey with alcohol. These sessions are raw, unfiltered, and completely unscripted. But before we dive in, I want to prepare you for what you're about to hear. These conversations are real. Real people, real struggles, real emotions. They're honest and they're sometimes painful and they may even be uncomfortable to listen to. But that's the point. So no matter where you are on your own personal journey, I encourage you to listen with an open heart and an open mind. Now let's step into the world of this Make-In-Mine coaching because this is where change begins.

1:00Hello, hello, it's Coach Zoe here. Alcohol Freedom Guide here at the Snicket Mind and one of the coaches inside the path. On today's episode, you will get the opportunity and I say opportunity to listen to someone incredible who I'm about to coach. One of our, she's just amazing. She blows all of our minds so we have a little of a soft spot for you. Kelly, thank you so much for being here. It's such a pleasure. I'm honored to be here. So great. So great. I'm so looking forward to this conversation. I loved when we asked, we asked members to write what they like to be coached on. Kelly wrote three really interesting topics and there was a kind of common thread through them, which was, first of all, are you okay if I read what you wrote? Absolutely. Absolutely. So first of all, I think I've been using alcohol not to feel, especially stuff connected to my past and my mum. I don't want to keep numbing it, but I'm also scared of being overwhelmed.

2:00Can you help me learn how to feel safely and work through that? How do my childhood mum patterns still show up in my drinking? And then there was one about how do I do with big emotions when they hit during my 30 day break? And then there was another one that was interesting, which is part of why I drink is how disconnected I feel in my relationship. There's no intimacy. We sleep separately and I don't feel emotionally connected. I want to understand why this is affecting how this is affecting my drinking and how to start changing my side of it. How can I start to reconnect with myself so I can even begin to sharp differently in my relationship? And there's a kind of a thread, a really interesting thread that stood out for me was this word of how it's impacting your drinking. So it's the way it's kind of like it's you're looking at the drinking as something much closer as opposed to the drinking being a message. So the drinking itself, the way you're drinking, how you're drinking, when you're drinking is the messenger as to what's going on where.

3:02So when you're drinking its increases or when you in quantity or in in in earlyness in the day or whatever, you know that you're on to something that's that you're in suffering, right? You're there's something within you that's not getting their needs met in some way. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's interesting, right, that that's that relationship and you've got you've picked up on that sort of that kind of flagging system, right? Yeah. So what would be helpful for you today bearing with that in mind to address? I've been really digging deep since I've started in the past. I've been doing all the content. I've been really really doing all the journaling and getting everything in and really working on myself with a lot of things. So I was reading to all my questions there and they're saying kind of thinking like well, I'm starting to have a better relationship with my husband. It's we don't really talk about the intimacy or anything like that.

4:04It's always been I guess someone was saying earlier that there's something she doesn't talk to her husband about her tricky bit. It's because you kind of put it in a box on the side and in a shelf and we just don't talk about it and it's like kind of the forbidden box to talk about, right? And it just keeps you really good. So that is, is that from, so what both of you have had have their own story around alcohol and both of you, the story that the narrative around alcohol makes you feel uncomfortable enough to want to put it under the carpet or put it in a box like you say. Yeah, you just put it in a box like there's the intimacy. I think I'm just scared to bring it up sometimes. Like it's, yeah, it's scary. It's a winch is because it's not there. I mean, he's I said, but with the kids and I'm pretty much focused most of my life with the kids and stuff and that's sort of where it went and I always thought it was like my fault that we weren't this and you know, it's on me and I guess that's where a lot of the drinking came in because I just felt like, okay, well, I'm really a housewife with kids and you kind of do your thing and I do my thing and we just kind of drifted.

5:07So would you say that the drinking actually came in in order to make something unsustainable or sustainable? Oh, absolutely. I actually 100% believed that from when we moved here, it was like I'm all my own. I'm in Australia and we don't have family here. So I basically had kids and I'm just in this world by myself. Where do I do? And because he's busy and he works two weeks on to me, it's often his way. It does this thing. I'm by myself. I'm trying to make friends be this and like super anxious younger and that and it just came on and I'm hiding bottles and the next thing, you know, by the cot and like just hiding on the house and just, yeah, it's horrible. To the point where you try everything and then the intimacy goes away because he doesn't want nothing to do with you when you're drunk and I'm just resentful about everything that he's doing and I don't get to do more that kind of thing and just kind of catfish shoppers and then, you know, now, so a complete disconnect between the two of you. Oh, yeah, completely. And then the one thing that is obvious and above board is your behavior and he has an

6:08opinion on that. So that's kind of the only connection you have, right? Is it a big, you know, many years? He's had a huge, huge thing on it. Yeah, he's getting so much better since starting this path and we are starting to decide, okay, well, we need to start trying things with each other to connect, reconnect and all that and it's getting better. And honestly, it is like it's just, he's been a lot more understanding about addictions and saying, like, okay, well, you know, I'm actually happy but he's black and white. You either drink or you don't drink. You either smoke or you don't smoke. You know, you lost a lot of a bunch of weight and that's because his mindset needs to like, you do it all black and white. For me, it's a full of all. And if you can't do it, then what does that, then I suppose that makes you weak or there's something wrong with you? How come you can't just stop? Yeah. Why don't you just stop? Just quit. Can't you see what's happening around you? Your kids are flailing. They're like, life is sucky. You know, everything is shit because you can't stop. Why can't you just stop? And I'm like, I just, I'm trying.

7:09I'm sorry. I'm just playing and just blame, blame, blame. And it just made it worse. There's the shame of blame. It just makes it worse. And you just keep going down that rabbit hole and then you're hiding it and you're not telling and you're lying. And all of this is adding to the discomfort that needs smothering and needs more and more layers of a bigger and bigger thickness of whatever it is to be able to smother it. Right? And so the alcohol increase and take increases, etc. And the separation, the divide and bigger. Yeah. Yeah. And everything just starts falling. And so through all that, it's just like he went his way. I went my way. And we're starting to come back to this stool that, you know, I'm starting to see him as a friend. Yeah. And that's, he's my husband. You've been married for 16 years. What is that? You know, it's really difficult when you felt, because you know, in order to be intimate, you need to feel that you can trust the person. Lots of people are in relationships and not able to be intimate and they're wronging

8:10themselves. What's wrong with me? I'm, you know, I'm a cold fish. I'm whatever. But actually, it's just because they don't trust the person in front of you. And you can be trusting because that person is actually, you don't feel they're off. You know, we're reading each other the whole time. And without realizing we, you know, when we're not drinking, especially because drinking wipes it out, where we have the ability to really see whether someone feel here, listen, if the smile goes to their eyes or their voices, we're listening, we're picking up on in authenticity or or in authenticity because the whole, the only question is, is am I safe? So you're reading and reading. And so we end up, you know, it's very clever what we're doing. There's a reason why you're not intimate. We're not intimate, right? That because you're not feeling safe in some way, shape or form. Now there's, you know, obviously our own sono work to be done. But ultimately, when it's in it, in your inner couple, I am one who's all for doing the work together to become a we... Yeah. I love the kind of methodologies where people do their trauma work together as a couple,

9:13witnessing your partner, you know, doing their trauma work in front of you. I mean, it's just, you can't, you know, the trust that builds from there and the way you feel about that person is just insane. So it's not, it's not that, it's that thing of, actually, I don't trust them. But because we make it about ourselves or something wrong with me, then down right, we have to drink. Yeah. And he's, he's someone, you know, he's an old school man. You don't show your feelings, emotions and stuff. He's got a lot of trauma that he's packed in the luggage and has set on me and thinks differently. And I understand that that's not me because I'm, he's had his stuff that he will not deal with because he's in that stage where you're like, you just deal with, you just have it, you just move on. Forget about it and carry on. It's I, I, you do your, your bit, I do my bit and we just keep walking in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah. And he's, he's starting to like go, you know, I'm proud of you and I, I see this is great. I'm glad you're going through this because I would have never understood this before. So he started to open up things right.

10:14He's slowly, and he told me he's proud of me, which was huge for me, which is really good. Yeah. And that did that give you a sense of, um, did that put you into a child's pot or into an adult? Probably. Yeah. Child. I feel like I'm always been on that lower level. I can't talk like adults because I'm not adult, like, you know, and I don't have a right to talk like that because I'm down here and they're up there. And it felt like our relationship was he's the adult. I'm child. Oh, you've got your parents saying I'm proud of you, you know, whereas when you are an adult and someone says they're proud of you, there's always a part of like, oh, great, good for you. But, you know what, you might not be tomorrow. So I'm not going to really attach. It's nice. I'm not going to say anything more than that. But when we're in that child to adult sort of relationship style, then when someone says they're proud to you, from the parental kind of position and you're in that child position, you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Now, all my, my value, my little bubble of value in my, in my little body is just burst

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15:25Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quintz. Download the Quintz app for app exclusive offers or go to quintz.com-naked. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com-naked. Yeah. Yeah. So would you like to? So is that part of your life you don't want to escape is to reestablish order in your relationship. So you're living from a place of same as and you're looking at each other in the eyes rather than you go up at him and you're down at you. Yes. I think so. Yes. Did you ever have that? When you were first met, did you have that? I felt like he was a rescuer for me. He was always a rescuer. I was with him and then I said, you know, buy and then he phoned me at once and said, look, I want something to fight for it and I walked you. And I was like, wow, no one said anything. It'd been that nice to me for.

16:26And then I just kind of went on and on and we were drinking so much when we met anyways. And now it just went like, got married, had kids and then he's working and I'm that. And then you just kind of stop everything. And then you just carry on and go like, what happened? Who are you? I don't know you. And I'm learning to become myself again. My kids are 16 and 14 now and they're getting their lives. And I'm like, I'm working and he works stuff and so to try to meet together and be these things because I told, we've actually said, like, you know, if we don't start working on this now, when the kids go, we just might divorce or like, you know, we either got to get together or divorce and we've stuck through some real hard stuff. Yeah. We've been through some really hard stuff together and we're still together. So I mean, he's very loyal to that extent and that's amazing in the human being. So it's just, you know, the expressing love and all that is difficult for him or that, right? Yeah. And it's not, it's not, it's not you guys aren't the problem, right?

17:27It's just that both of you, what we call, you both have, we call it kind of like a stance. You know, you have a kind of like a childish stance where you kind of, you're like, yes, whatever. And he has more of a kind of, you know, judgmental here I am. I'm right. Yeah. And then in between the two of you, you have a, you've developed a sort of a dance, right? And it's a dance that gets looked at. The thing is, is that if that dance, if you stay, remain, leave things the way they are now, then drinking is the only way to make, you know, unless you're, and sadly lots of people just jump out the relationship, you know, obviously if they have to, they have to. And then saying, hang on a minute, you know, if I've got a, if I can, if I can work on this substance, get this substance out of my system. So I'm in a place, the part of my brain, which is this kind of wise adult prefrontal cortex part of your brain, I can then work towards this, this relationships and relationship, a lean into it and repair it and, and challenge it and, and, and build a relationship I don't want to escape with the person I love.

18:30But that, all of a sudden becomes like a part of the alcohol freedom, right? Because it is that adult that's going to step in, right? Yeah. For me, the thing, the very first thing that I learned in this past, the very first thing was the opposite of addiction is connection. And that was like, hold, that just went like, being, being, being everywhere. I'm like, that is what I'm lacking. There is no connection anywhere. I'm off hiding in my bedroom, drinking every night to oblivion, to complete blackout. Every night, not knowing what's going on in the morning and just feeling like she's competing and doing the same thing over and over again and being distant from everyone and just being like that. And so finally, I've started to get out, adult, I can bedroom and I'm, you know, I'm connecting and I told my kids this and I told my husband that and I said, that's what I mean is connection. And so now we're starting to grow together more. And I said, like, that's what it is. I want to be there with it and, yeah, just lonely, so lonely. And you think this alcohol is like your best friend and it's really like just throwing

19:32you inside and it just the mentality in the head space and that it completely takes up and just the depression and say everything that it gives you, you know, it takes from you and gives you with all that pain. It just, it just, yeah, we say we were wounded in, in, in connection and we heal in connection. Right. And so this, that whole thing when you're talking about everything that you're feeling, the loneliness, et cetera, when there is no connection that there's, and you're drinking, there's no way of actually loneliness is there to make a sage. You know, actually, I need connection and then stepping out and finding said connection whatever and working towards it and doing whatever we need to do. But ultimately, that alcohol keeps us stuck, suspended in loneliness because it makes it tolerable. It makes the intolerable tolerable. Yeah.

20:33And, yeah. And so there are no messages and that's why we get so stuck because there's not every message, every emotion, everything comes up for us is there to turn our compass out in a compass, some in a direction that we need to go when we're drinking and have that compass, right? So I love that you've, that you've decided that actually alcohol, this alcohol has been tempering and standing in the way of you actually getting what it is that you're really craving, which is connection, connection in your intimate setting and your relationship. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So tell me, what is it since you've joined us past? What have you discovered about yourself that is taking you into the realm of growing up? Oh, that I'm making promises that I can find the key. That was a big one that I'm like saying things that I'm doing and I'm actually doing them. The more that I'm journaling, I'm finding that, oh, yeah, I loved writing and I'm writing more and I'm sharing more and I'm, you know, I actually have my daughter's 14th birthday.

21:37It was my very first time being alcohol free. So my forgiveness times being responsible adult team, right? You know, my kids have taken care of me for so long. So I'm finally starting to see this and my eyes open and being like, I'm not passed out twice. It's seven. I'm here with my kids when like, okay, let's get this done. Let's try this and getting appointments done and, you know, cooking alcohol free. All these grown up things, right? These kind of like things that are giving you, it's almost like you're updating, you're updating the narrative. Oh, yeah. You know, this is now, you know, I'm acting like an adult. I am taking responsibility for my past decisions and I am stepping in. I'm changing my worship with alcohol. I'm changing my relationship with my husband. I'm changing my relationship with my kids. I'm changing my relationship with eating. I've got all of these things and they are the decisions you're making are coming from that parts of your brain that is the part that you want to build the life you don't want to escape for it. That's right. It is. It truly is and it's getting more and more exciting all the time. Yeah.

22:37I feel like this is from this path. This is this is absolute change. Yeah. I've never wanted it more than I ever have in my life than being and learning what I'm learning and doing what I'm doing like every day. It's like all the questions that put in there. I'm like, well, I'm pretty much starting to deal with all of these. I mean, it's just really great, you know? And here I am. I'm starting to be alcohol free and my body is going like, thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm just like, I really wanted you good by it. And they're seeing it. My kids who see my husband seeing it. You know, I'm just proud of who I am becoming so proud of it. Yeah. It's so funny because you can use all those. So the consistency of keeping on turning up. So using the consistency of turning up for your path, for your calls, for this, they are portals into to to that part of your brain that you want to access the wise adults to be able to build that that life you don't want to escape. So that it builds that consistency builds the trustworthiness,

23:39not of with your company, your couple, but with you with you. So what you're saying to yourself is you can trust me now. Really? Yes, you can. Absolutely. Yes, you can. I am. And when it's the fan, are you still there? Yes, I am. And so we get to prove ourselves to ourselves in order to create this beautiful safety, this container, to be able to do this work in. From there, you're becoming creative. You're starting to blossom, right? And then from there, you will start to blossom and thrive in your relationship because you are trusting of yourself, which then allows you to be trusting of another. We cannot trust another if we're not trusting with ourselves. That's exactly true. That's so right. And it's a bingo, yeah, because I am because I am starting to feel this love. And like I said today, I've taken that upset in there and I've loved myself. And my body told me what I needed today.

24:40He had just said, this is, I've listened to it. I felt it and sat with myself, which is hard for me because I'm always moving. So I actually sat still, which is a huge thing for me to sit still and say, look, what do you need? What do I need? What is my body feel right now? And it was just take a bath, relax and just relax yourself and sit and loving myself and saying that that I can start to, when I start working and being the best me, I can be everything follows. Good things happen to me when I'm loving myself. Good things happen to me when I'm alcohol free, like really good things. And I start to love myself and then people see that and they start to, you know, that respect comes up and that, you know, oh, yeah, this is, this is her. I love this. This is the girl I fell in love with. Yeah, you know, it's actually the other way around. It's the, it's the, it's what we were talking about in the beginning, which is, it's the alcohol, which is the red flag. The alcohol, the drinking is help, help, help. Yeah.

25:40And you're now, you've listened, right? Rather than looking at, you know, the situation, you're able to say, hang on a minute, if I'm drinking, something's up here and it's something's up for me. I am, I am in distress and I am needing to smother the distress with alcohol. I'm sure. Oh, yeah. Well, I was as a blame, shame and blame game. I was telling, like, it's all because of him. Like, I was in blame victim, tell mortality forever, you know, I drink because of him. I did, like, it was victim, complete victim mode. Why me? Why me? What did I do? What did this and that? And then when I started, yeah, exactly, like, when I'm working on myself, I'm finding that it's just, you know, I start to let all that go. There was, there was thoughts are dissipating. They're just disappearing up for me. And they're like, people, he's not so bad. And the saying's so bad. And maybe I can listen without having to be right to, you know, and it's okay to listen and just sit there with it instead of having a fight every time that is invocating and

26:40being this angry woman at him all the time. Right? Yeah. And kind of projecting, right? Because we have this belief, because most of us have kind of an emotional maturity within us where we don't really know how to process emotion. So it's much easier to deflect onto someone else, right? To be angry and to point the finger and it's all outwards facing energy because we are so terrified of swinging the spotlight onto ourselves and to feeling the unknown because lots of us, you know, some of us when we were small, we'd found a way with us sucking your thumb, disassociating, cutting, would have been something, would have been your way of removing yourself from feeling in your own expression of emotion, right? So what's happening is then you realize that you start to grow up and you start to feel like you're doing now and you realize that, oh my god, it's way not as bad as I thought it was. And that I was more frightened of it than anything else.

27:42I was more frightened of the unknown, of not knowing just how bad I would feel, how low would I go? Would I ever make it out again? And you're realizing, actually, I can sit with what's coming up for me and I can't wait. For efficiency, I can keep my sharpness and less from soup, we're focusing on this feeling of joy and things that I can look at. You know, I've never heard it. I hate these messages from far, but I also wanted to thank them and to do it, to do you were so meant to be. I was so meant there. It was that was a divine intervention. It was just absolute, that was, it's my time. And it's being here has allowed so much growth. And I mean, it's only been a couple months. And I'm just, it's so beautiful. And I'm just so excited. This is a year.

28:43I mean, can you imagine the end of the year? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Everything would be peachy, like, honeymoon phase all over again, right? Because every day that I keep showing up with this whole community, the curiosity is big. What community and the content and the support and just feeling that real gains, all these gains, it just keeps projecting me forward. The momentum is there. It just keeps going. And I'm learning so every day, I've got all these sayings in my head. And you know, the best one for me, you know, it has been from you. It's basically like, this is my brain predicting. And that's OK. And I sit with that. And that's where I held my first feeling of like the craving passing through me because it just said that because it's logical and it makes sense. And it's not all this crazy emotion saying like you're wrong, you're wrong. You've had. So I'm learning these things like, it's just projecting everything so amazingly forward.

29:43That's amazing. Amazing. And so when you, I'm assuming when you wrote these questions, it was earlier, right? It was, you know, when we went, whenever I wrote these questions, I was like, oh shit, I'm going to be like, you know, it's going to be Friday night and I get the day off tomorrow and how am I going to drink after this? Or when I, oh, I can't show up drunk to this call. And all of that was going through my head. It was just insane. I was like, I can't do this. I mean, you know, and then it's just so much data going and like, this is ridiculous. I don't want my life like this anymore. And here you are. And you're sitting here doing the work. So you're, so one of your questions that are, that's what do I do when big emotions hit during my 30 days? What is your answer to you now? Oh, yeah, I sit and I go, what would KK? So I was BK, belly, blackout Kelly. Now I'm KK is clear Kelly. What would KK do? What would KK do in this situation? And I did it that day. I wrote it, I journaled it out because I want to look at all this stuff and remember it. And then I had you in my head going,

30:44this is my brain predicting. And that's all what I said. I'm just listening to coach Zoe in my head going, it's amazing how it all comes at the right time. When you do this, every single thing, it just all comes in place like absolutely perfect. Trans like incredible. It's because it almost feels like you step out of your way, right? In making the decision where you think, okay, you know what? There's some parts of me every cell in those parts is saying, I don't want to stop drinking. I don't want to change my relationship, that alcohol. I'm absolutely fine with it. But there's another part that's louder now. And she stepped in. And it's almost like the minute that you make that decision, that it's just like, it's like you've opened the, you know, the horses are off to the races. You're there. You're in the run, right? You're just moving forwards. And then because you're in the program and you've got the coaches and everything is so, that's what I love about coaching is that, yeah, we dip into past, et cetera. We don't stay there. We don't linger. We move forwards, right?

31:45We keep ambling, walking, crawling. I don't care. We do. We do moving forwards. That's the beauty of this. It is. It's just, you know, I just, I can't even bother what it's going to be like, because there's just so much more. And all those mommy issues and all these other issues that, like, you know, this come up, it'll come up down at the end there, like dealing with the self-man. I just love that. Right now it's just focus on the external. And let's do with that. All this stuff that was around and all this stuff that inside and that and get the data, get this stuff and learn about that. I, and I've questioned every single thing and know that it has no job that it can give me and like, help me with. Yeah. And you can see that the choice, the choice of the, of the, of the drink companies to not write, it's more of the absence of what's on the nuts, what's not on a bottle that's that's more shocking almost. Not that on the bottle, which is drink responsibly, have dare you. You know, you drink this addictive substance responsibly.

32:47Oh, yeah. What's okay about that? Pour it down. Yeah. And then you haven't got the whole thing, which is basically what I say, it's like Addison Wonderland, right? It, this thing does everything. Yeah, that would be the label on it. It's like sold to us. Yeah, this thing does everything based on all the advertising and all the way it's normalized and the messages that's given to us. This thing does everything until told otherwise. Until, yeah, until until you're hiding in your bedroom, drinking wine and passing out and tell you doing it and calling yourself to sleep and cry whatever and just, what was me? Tell you change. Yeah. I think the crazy bull. So are you taking your break? Is it on the 12th? It starts on the 12th. Yeah, I've already five days. So I started mine a week early. I was like, I can't do this. I can't start early because I was so dead set going like, no, I'm doing this every day until I need to. And until I have to stop. But I just got to some point where it's so much data going. The last four days were like, this is just a habit. And then I did an act on a habit.

33:49And I was like, this sucks. I don't want to do this. And so I just said, and I poured it down the sink. And they both coach Lisa. I was like, this is amazing for me because I could never do that before. All of these never, ever thought I could ever do in my life have started to come out. And since then, I've just been like, okay, this is goodness. I know my body's healing and it's so wonderful how my body is healing. And it's so wonderful how everything's changing. And it's just, yeah, I was like, okay, I'm experimenting right now. How do I feel? What's going to happen? Because I want to be ready for this break. And it's not a whole 30 days. It's one day, 30 little one steps. Yeah. Yeah, I'm breaking down. And it's just like, and I'm excited for it. Yeah. I'm excited to see what's happening. I get to instead of I have to and I can't and this and that. I love it. And that's I always say to, you know, we always talk about, you know, obviously the program has to have a framework to it. It's has numbers. But some people are ready a week before like you because they're just chomping at the bit, right?

34:49They're just like, I just want to stop. And most people get to that point. Most people get to that point where they're like, whether it's a week later or a month later or a week before or whatever, they get to the point where they're like, I have gathered enough data. And you know that you've got enough data because you get to that point. And I am now ready to kick this down after that or down the curve or whatever. It is. And he just see it with so many people on the calls. It is astro non-mobile. Like I'm just when I first started, I was like, I want what they want. I want what they want. I want that they want. And I'm showing up. I want to be here. I mean, like just even the whole versus doubt is this series that that like there's just so many people. The proof is in the pudding this day, right? It is there. Yeah. You know, how can you doubt that when you see it every single day? Yeah. It's incredible. This is life changing stuff. I love it. You know what? I'm loving is that I'm hearing someone speaking from the perspective of doing it,

35:52literally doing it. And I've watched you do it. You know, the content, the noting, the writing, the doing the work underneath, the coaching calls, the community, you're doing the three seats, right? You are leaning in, right? And so you've got four C's, a member coaching community. Or is it a community? Community, compact compassion, curiosity and content. We can have that as a vulnerable to the vulnerability. Yeah. That has released so much shame as well. I've shared stuff in this safe, safe, safe community that I could never share out there with anyone. And they have just taken it. I'm balling my eyes out. And they're allowing me to do this. It's amazing. It is, it is really like it just cuts the heart. It's so incredible how this community just holds you like you're a baby and just gently rocks you and helps you and so much love. That's how the change happens. That's how it's happening to me.

36:52Yeah. It's not with the resentment, the anger and the shame in the guilt and the, not that's never going to work. We go in the other direction though, we did try, right? We gave it a try. We did try. I went back quite a few times. Yeah. Surely if I hate myself more, it'll, it this will do the trick. Surely if I feel more and more ill, this is the illest I ever felt. This must be it. It's like, oh, I'm still drinking and I'm drinking a few hours later as well. You know, it's like, yeah, so we get it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, yeah. Well, I just like the other thing that I've noticed because I have come out and said before with the group that I've had an eating disorder since I was like 15. So like, yeah, I've come on these calls and have been saying like, this is the only place and the only time in like 33 years having, having Belilia where I have had like consecutive days in a row where I haven't been to an approach. And it's, it's just astronomical. Like this is crazy for me.

37:52This is where everything changes and this is where life starts. I mean, it's just this beautiful. I love it. I just, I'm just, I'm just so, I'm so happy for you. I'm just insane. I feel safe in, yeah, that's it, right? It's safe. I feel safe. And I want to, I now want to love this body more than anything in the world because it has given me so much and held me through so much stuff and just been there the whole time. I'm showing up to myself the way that I should have a long time ago, but you know what, there's no should, should it here? It's the right time, the right place and everything is right. It's amazing. I'm so happy. That's just so grateful. So, come on in some hug. Come on. Thank you so much for coming and chatting. I love talking to you anyway. And I hope you enjoyed that little, little experience or you listeners. Yes, there's a lot of love to and I'll see you soon.

38:56Take care. That was a powerful session. Take a moment to breathe and just reflect on what you've heard. As we move into the next session, let's carry that same openness and compassion. Every story is different, but the courage to face these challenges head on is what brings us all together. Let's listen in. Hey there, everybody. Welcome to this Neck and Mind podcast. I am Coach Cole Harvey and I am one of the alcohol freedom guides in the snake in mind. And I'm one of the senior coaches in the year long path program. Today, y'all get to listen in as a coach, one of our path participants, jewels, hey, jewels. Hi. Glad you're on here. You too. Thanks for coming. Yeah. Glad we can have this conversation. So, why don't you just let let the listeners know what it is you want to get coached around. Just coming up for you. So I wanted to get coached around, I guess, parenting where I feel that I kind of failed my kids in certain ways because of my drinking.

39:59And I worry that I won't be able to explain to them why I drank. And I also go back to when we start the path, what was my why? And I struggled with that. I'm actually sorry, I didn't struggle right up to the gate. I thought, well, my why is my kids? And so I don't I know what their age is hard for me to say, well, don't drink and these things when they're hearing about drinking or hearing about drugs, they're 12 and almost 14. And so I'm not naive to the fact that that's there. But then, you know, it's like, do as I say, not as I do, right? And so I didn't drink that much. I was just a social drinker until I had my second and I was just really overwhelmed. My husband was only around half the month. So he has a job where he's home for five, gone for three, type of schedule.

41:01And I was working full time out at the house in the kids' room daycare and it was too much. It was almost like a blur. And so I became lonely. I just, you know, that's a story that I think a lot of people have is that and I remember the first time I drank alone, I've never done that. And it was in 2015. And so 11 years ago and I poured myself a wine and I walked downstairs with it and I thought, what are you? This is, this is weird. It felt weird, but I wanted to do it. And then after that, it would be the opposite because I was so tired, but I hadn't had anything from myself. And so I would actually go upstairs to my bedroom. There was a TV there as well. So when I sat downstairs and that was our family room, I would go upstairs and I would have a glass of wine on my nightstand. And some nights I was so tired that I was with them. This is so stupid and I would just dump it. But other times I would just watch, you know, brainless TV and drink wine and bed.

42:02And every time I thought this is silly, got to the point where I think a lot of people in the past probably have done this. You start googling them in alcoholic, right? And you do those tests online, right? And I didn't worry too much when my kids were young about me drinking in front of them. I just had this sense of like, oh, now you're drinking like a few times a week or that's weird. You're not drinking when my husband's home, but when he's gone, that's when I would drink. And it all just escalated to be a daily drinker of bottle of wine a night. But started at five, like the kids would come home and I'd be helping them with their homework and I would have a glass of wine. We were playing badminton actually the other day in the yard and I haven't been drinking. I am on the break right now. And I have recalled the year before how I brought the wine out and I put it on the table.

43:04And we'd had dinner, but I left it there and then I was playing badminton with my daughter. And I remember thinking, we're playing King's Court. So I kept thinking, can't wait to lose so that I could go and have a sip of wine. So I was like, I'm sure she knew. I would hand the racket over to my son. It was his turn and be like, finally, I can get that sip, right? And then the other day we were playing in the yard and I just recalled that and it was nice because there was nothing more that I would rather do than win and stay in King's Court. And so it just was like a really, it was a really nice change. But that good feeling was about my behavior in front of my kids. And when I would drink and I know people, people will say this, like I wasn't an angry drunk. I wasn't, you know, I didn't, I really was kind of quiet of anything. Like I didn't, I wasn't silly and dancing and I wasn't getting mad at anybody, but I was, you know, you can tell when someone's drunk. And I would tell myself that you don't, but it's not true.

44:06And then there's also the piece of like marketing alcohol to our kids, right? So when I first started, like, you know, listening to Annie speak about all the marketing that's out there, I thought, oh my gosh, we're doing that to our kids. We're seeing, you know, I would say I would get off work. I was working from home and my husband would pour me a glass of wine. It was kind of how I was, I was saying this is how you under work day. And he was saying when I cook, I crack open a beer. And I felt like that was the message, well, it was a message that we were giving to our kids. That there's alcohol at the table every time we have dinner and it follows us through the night to the bedtime. I'm sure I smelled like red wine every time I put my kids to bed. And so I just, in 2024, I did the alcohol experiment. And I was alcohol-free for six months and I loved it. And then I just have one of those life became lifey things.

45:07And that worries me too. And then, and I didn't drink right away. Actually, it was like six weeks later. I think I was just in a sense where I was mad at myself, feeling bad about myself. And I thought, screw it. And I also thought, screw it. I'm just going to have a couple of glasses and no big deal. But it wasn't. And then I just started drinking every day again. I think most of us know we should drink more water. But what I didn't really think about was that hydration is about more than just how much water you're drinking. It can affect your energy, your focus, even how you feel throughout the day. That's one of the reasons I've been using instant hydration. It's an electrolyte drink mix designed to support hydration, energy, recovery, and focus. Without sugar or a bunch of unnecessary additives. I've been adding it to my water on those really full days when I'm going from one thing to the next. And what surprised me was how easy it is to actually drink. The flavors are refreshing and smooth. Without that overly salty taste, you might expect from an electrolyte drink.

46:10And I was really interested to learn what's actually in it. Instant hydration uses authentic French graysse salt imported from France, along with sodium, potassium, magnesium, and aquaman. An ocean-sourced mineral complex with calcium and trace minerals. For me, it's just become a really simple way to be more intentional about hydration throughout the day. For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com slash naked mind and use my promo code NakedMind for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's instant hydration's best offer available. That's instanthydration.com slash naked mind, promo code NakedMind. There's no denying it. Summer's easy pace is behind us. I'm back to early alarms, my calendars filling up fast, and there's a lot more on my plate. But there's one thing I didn't let slip when everything else picked back up, my AG1. One scoop, eight ounces of cold water, every single morning,

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49:15That's Shopify.com slash mind. So I don't I also don't know how to get past that again. So when life gets lifey, which it hasn't since then, or in this, I should say it has in 2025, but I was able to overcome it just because I was drinking or felt that I overcame it because I was drinking. But now I don't have that resource. I don't plan to drink again. And so when life becomes lifey, I do feel like I have more tools now with the path that I did with the alcohol experiment. But I do worry about that. And sorry, like I had mentioned as well. I worry that if my why and the part that I feel so proud of myself for, is all around my behavior around in front of the kids. Then when the kids move out, so my daughter plans to go away for school, whether she doesn't know it, it would be in four or five years.

50:17And so then, then do I not no longer have a why anymore? If I'm not modeling something that I don't want to model, and the kids are gone, I worry that I'll start drinking again. Okay. So from what I'm hearing, there's this idea that you have this over your why. What is my why? And currently, you said it's for my kids, seems like when what you were telling me, you know, say like with a badminton, and you and your husband say, well, after we do this, I have a beer. When I'm cooking, I have wine, and that you want to model something different for them. And that there's also this idea that things happen in life. And I'm not going to have this resource of alcohol to help numb that to, do those two topics seem interrelated? Did they seem like two separate things to work on? Yes. What is it that you want from our conversation today around this idea?

51:20I think more information, I was having so read, Annie wrote the book Buzz to Buzzkill, and I read it, and I thought I even felt like, oh, I can't get this to my kids because they'll think I'm an idiot, right? Like, there's they'll come at time, hopefully, in a couple of years where it makes sense, but often I would read a page and think, well, I don't want them to think, why was mom drinking when she knew all of this would happen? Or what was wrong with her that she needed a dopamine fix? And I don't want to go into, well, my relationship with your dad was really bad. And I just, yeah, I think communication around the kids, I mean, we haven't talked about it, but they know that I'm not drinking. My husband's cut down on drinking a lot, and so I'm sure they know it is. Like we're all drinking water at the table now, instead of us having wine or beer.

52:21So it sounds like you tell me if this is right or not. There's an embarrassment around that. Yes. Big time. So there's an embarrassment of you understanding why you were drinking, and then the embarrassment may be that may or may not be there for the opportunity to talk about those things with your kids if they ask. Yes. I wouldn't, I'd feel embarrassed to that I drink as much as I could. Okay. Yes. So there's some embarrassment is that couple will shame you tell me. Yeah. It is. They think I'm great. I think I'm just like the best person. They love their parents. They often talk about that. And we'll sometimes say like, oh, I feel so lucky like you're, you're the one who always does the permission slips or they're always calling out other kids because they haven't paid for the field trip or things like that. And mom, like you're so great,

53:21I never have that problem or the fun lunches. I always get one and some parents forget just like little things like that that they actually take the time at their ages to point out, which is really nice. They just every all the time they're just, I love you and kisses goodbye all the time when they go to school. And I don't want them to think I'm anything less than this pedestal that they have me. Is it the pedestal they have you on and or the view you want to project to them? Probably the water. Well, how does that align for you? How does that sit with you? Like I'm projecting a version of myself to them. So do you mean that I'm trying to project a, like a, I'm saying that's what I'm hearing and you tell me if that sounds right and if that does, what are you hearing that? Well, part of that would be, I want to be perfect and I think I want them to think that I'm perfect.

54:24Like it's okay. They know I have flaws, but the flaws are like, I can't whistle or like just these bad at badminton or little things like that. You know, if I, those are more like quirks. Yes. Then flaws. If I yell, I apologize. Like I recognize that that was bad. You know, it was because I don't want them to think, oh, my mom is somebody who yells on it. I think it's more like, what would that be? Like, not my legacy, but like how, I had seen this thing where like, like once our, once our kids leaves a home, it'll be a conversation that they're having with another as adults, having a conversation with an adult, talking about what their childhood was like and we don't get a say and what would that be? What would that be? Would it be my mom was strict and she drank a lot? Or would it be that my mom protected me and she was always there as a great listener.

55:27And I know I don't have like a lot of control over that, but maybe I feel like I want to control that narrative. So you want to control a narrative of what somebody else thinks about you? Yes. Interesting that you said that that's interesting because I have had so many people and it was so true. Say, wow, you care too much about what people think of you. Mm. I do. I was even like, it's kind of a complicated thing but I was driving with somebody and she was giving me these tips. I was going for like a license that was higher and I said, I don't really want to know, I don't really want my neighbors to know that I was doing this. So can we park just around the corner? And she said, yeah, wow, you really care about what other people think of you. And it is something that I'm like working on and trying to recognize, but I also do see that it's rubbing off on my daughter. I can see that, the anxiety around that.

56:27And it's easier to work on I will just a side note that a lot of things in the past, yes, related to alcohol actually, our eye opens me with my anxiety around it. And so my hope is that by the end, I'll have more information and not be as anxious with a person. But yeah, yeah, I do. I care about what other, yeah, that other parents would think of me in a certain way or. Notice what sort of feelings to Zet induce in you when you're trying to control the narrative of how other people view you. Anxiety, definitely that I want people to think that I'm helping. I ended up quitting my job. I just actually got totally burnt out. And in the end, after I quit my job, I realized, wow, it's because I said yes to everything.

57:27I wanted everybody to think that if they asked me for something, but then I became the guest person. And that's why they were asking because they knew that I would see yes. Yeah, I've always been a people, please, or even just as a kid, I had a great family. Nobody drank, there was nothing bad going on, nothing. And that I always wanted to keep the peace. Always, like my mom, like it's kind of a joke, not a funny joke, but it would be like, oh yeah, Joel's was the one who wanted to, you know, if she thought somebody was, I mean, we had, we had money, but I remember one time my dad had quit his job. And all of a sudden, just on my own, I became concerned about bills. And so I was frustrated with my sisters because they were leaving lights on and just always just wanting to make sure everything was good. Everything was gonna be okay. So definitely a people, please, they're definitely, and in a bad way, you know how like you hear people say, well, it's actually a good selfish thing because you're wanting to,

58:28you're not actually caring too much about what, either you're putting that on other people too, and not putting, like, I mean, I would, if I told you stories, my God, of things that I think to myself, like, Joel's just saying, don't want it. Just say, say, that's not what you want. Or like, why isn't it coming out of your mouth? Just say, what's happening here? And I, yeah, so I do care. And I don't know why. I don't know why because I come home and I don't necessarily, I guess I worry about how people perceive me, but at the same time, and maybe, and maybe that's just coming with age, but I don't care as much necessarily, but I guess, yeah, I do. I definitely care about how my kids perceive me. I would never want them to have like, a boundary with me that was no contact, or that's actually a fear of mine. And having to, one of my friends,

59:30I'm just like, he can't imagine. I just, so it sounds like to avoid these things that you're afraid of. You project this image that causes anxiety, right? It causes you to say yes to everything, it causes people pleasing to me. It sounds like you're being held prisoner by this image up here, rather than being true to you. Yeah. Does that sound right? Absolutely, yes. Okay. Yeah. I have a cost to that. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to put something out here, you just tell me if this lands or not, you feel free to push back on it, but it's this people pleasing, and I totally get it. I'm going to say yes to everything so that I control the narrative of how other people see. That, to me, sounds like manipulation.

1:00:32Oh, okay. Now, I'm not saying you do that intentionally, and I'm not saying you're doing it at all, but I'm doing and saying things that maybe I don't agree with or don't want to do. I'm projecting this image of me so that others like me and don't think bad of me, and I'm acting in a certain way, maybe against my values or against how I truly feel, so that this person likes me or approves of me. Does that land at all in my off base? You tell me. No, that's, that's right on track. That's true. And I'm not saying this is conscious. I'm, there's just something in you that feels like it needs to perform. Yeah, it's not intentional that I have definitely become more aware of it. Right. You say that like, you also say that we want to make sure that it's so things get okay. And to me, this kind of tires back into life getting lifey without alcohol.

1:01:33Things aren't gonna go okay. People are gonna think differently of you than you want them to. And when my first line of defense is projecting of my image, this trying to control a narrative, when that doesn't work, and things do go as skew, what happens then? Yeah, I mean, on a daily basis, just minor things, if somebody, if I got the impression, somebody didn't like me or things like that, I can't, I can't get past that. I wouldn't start drinking anything because of that. I know that. But I think I would say in 2024, I'm gonna try and put this into something and you can try to reword it if it makes my sense. I actually started to feel really bad about myself. Like, who are you? What are you doing? You might as well do this. It's the first time in my life, I would say that I was actually destructive towards myself.

1:02:33And yeah, and that's when I took something that I really was proud of, which was not drinking for six months and through the week. And I didn't have any, I mean, I had shame for the drinking, but not realizing it wasn't until like the end of last year that I realized I did that to myself, to hurt myself. Did that make any sense? What can you say more about that? Did it more to hurt yourself? I think I just felt so low. And it wouldn't go as far as to say depressed, but I was definitely sad. And I felt like, well, I was definitely sad and didn't really have anything to tell me how to deal with that sadness outside of, well, you're making a choice. It was with my relationship with my husband actually

1:03:34that I made a choice to stay and I hated myself for it. And then like starting to drink, I just got into the habit again. I feel like that part just went into the normal, narrow pathways. This is how I live my life now. So even though everything is, we're working on it and we will be okay in the end. Now, it just got back to, I'm alone with drinks, I'm part of the Mummy Wine Club again. And it's not that I didn't care. I did start to really care, but it couldn't stop. And I wanted to join the path actually. I'm the February group. I wanted to join in January and I did my sign-defin paid and then I was like, I just can't do this right now. And so they let me just join the February. I was calmer and had more of a sense of why I wanted to do it or like how I was going to make it work

1:04:34if I just gave it some time. Well, just as you say that, what's coming up for you right now? The one thing I could do is how badly I wanted to stop drinking. And I can't tell you outside of how good of a parent I felt not drinking in front of my kids. Why, those six months were so great. I mean, there's the obvious things, right? You're waking up fresher and more productive and all those things. But during the pause, I drank every day. But near the end, I couldn't wait for the break. I wasn't stopping drinking, but I said to my husband, I can't wait because it's not that there was somebody telling me. It was not one of the coaches said, okay, Jules, this is it. You have to, but I want to continue with the path, the way it is. And so it was April 13th and I could not eat for April 13th because that was the day that I wasn't allowed to drink. And then things could maybe go back to the way they were in 2024.

1:05:36And I would have all those great parenting feelings again. But then I get back to being hard on myself. And I think, gosh, the kids were nine and 11 at the time. So that's two years at maybe they were, I lost two years of them seeing me as being in a dry household and not walking around with a glass in my hand. And then they say up later, so they're seeing it longer. That sounds like it kind of comes back to the idea of how they interpret you and your why as to why you're drinking. What does your why say about your deepest values? Well, I could be off here. This is right off the top of my head. I haven't written this. I haven't thought of it before. But I have like a great, great, she's like lives five minutes away. She's just amazing. Like amazing percent. She always happens to be and not that I want to be like her,

1:06:39but I want my kids to think of me the way I think that. And so there's I think, I don't know the actual percentage, but I know a lot of people don't have that luxury. I'm looking at their parents and just looking up to them and like still being able to look up to her. And it's not just me, I have two sisters in there exactly the same way. Like how is she so amazing? And so maybe that's part of it is I or I put that expectation on myself. I mean, she's easy. She does do this day. Can I ask, have you always thought this way about your mom? Was there ever a time you were at odds with her? Are you thought differently about her? Not that I can think of. There is the normal teenage I didn't want. I'm not in my space kind of thing, but she was just giving me my space. She was made with to do. And but no, we never fought.

1:07:42We both worked down town. We lived in a big city and we both worked down town. So we would commute together. What is it? You mean, and there were times where maybe we saw too much of each other, but that's all it was. Is I needed a little lot of space? No, I honestly, I can't. And I don't think my sisters have either. Well, that's pretty impressive. It, right? To never have had any sort of disagreement around anything with a person. Well, I will say one thing in our household is my dad did pass away. And so I think a lot of the things that we see in her mom is like, how did you do it? She had three teenage daughters. She worked full time. And she was always there for us. We all went to university. We were all into that in successful jobs. And she was by our side the whole time. Always on our team. And I guess like my parents never thought except that they probably just didn't fight in front of us.

1:08:43You know, there was always stuff like that, but I would say like I never, there was never yelling at our house or things like that. I don't know. And then, and there was never drinking. We didn't have alcohol in our house. We, I remember the odd time seeing my grandma have a glass of wine. And then it just was just like everyone laughed. Oh, here she goes. She's gotten the giggles. And it was there was never anything, anything negative about drinking. Or there just was no alcohol. It just wasn't even talked about. Right. So it sounds like you're looking at the past here in this sort of ideal version of it that you're framing, then holding yourself up to that, to somebody else, to a completely different situation, to a completely different time. Is that fair to you? No, it's not because our circumstances are different. And times have changed and all of those things. So no, it's not.

1:09:44It is something that I'm just sort of maybe realizing now that maybe I'm trying to provide all the, you know, I always felt safe at home. I always felt that I had an advocate. I always knew that I could come home. I moved out of the team, but I always had, I can come home in my back of pocket. Like I could just never, they deal. And I, yeah, I guess I want, I want my kids to have that too. And I guess they probably do all the things I just listed. They do have, they do have, they're safe at home, they know that. And they know we love them. And we're always on their side, always on their team. So I don't know how to navigate, I guess the, the one thing that I just, I'm so hard on myself about is the shame around drinking. And so I guess also like what it does to, right? Like my daughter, it was, I think back in January, I had wine on the table.

1:10:49I was drinking wine. And she sniffed it, went, I don't know, that's so weird because I didn't even like wine until later. I don't want her to like alcohol because I'm like, you know, girl, I don't want her to say, you know, my son said, dad, can I get you a beer? And I thought, oh, that's so weird, like not just because it wouldn't happen in my family, but, yeah, it didn't happen in my family, but, but that's not it. Yeah, it's, you know what, it's all the things around that too. Like, like just like I said, kind of marketing alcohol being so great around market. Yeah. Well, you mentioned shame around drinking around. Yeah. No, there's a shame says that I'm bad. I'm a terrible person. I'm flawed. And if you have that view, if you're holding that shame and you're also trying to project a different version of you too, there's going to be conflict.

1:11:53Like, I'm going to talk about that. But guilt on the other hand saying like, hey, what I did was kind of out of alignment with my values. I did that. That may have been the wrong move. I see that. Let me do, let me take some steps to correct that. Whether that's internally, externally, having conversations with your kids because they're going to grow up and realize my mom is just a human being too. She has flaws and she has these things just like I got those things, flaws about myself. Now if you were to just hold that idea, right, one day eventually they're going to find out my mom just a human. Or I mean, I could have those conversations with them, could let them know, hey, you know, y'all know y'all are safe here, y'all know you're loved and I want you to know too. Like this might be the system stuff that I have that I feel y'all may need to be aware

1:12:53of. You can have that conversation or not totally up to you. But what would it look like to forgive yourself here? I never, I don't know because I've always thought, I'm forgivable as a too big of a word for it. I just felt like I will always hold that as something that I did that was bad. It was like shameful always, never looking at a different way. And yeah, no, I, I'd have to forgive or frame in a different way. I don't know if I could, I don't know. I was standing in the way of it. I think guilt. So, to be guilty for something that I think for me, it's like it did happen. Like I can't, I can't say, oh, I can't say it happens because of A, B, and C was something that I had power over and, and did make those decisions, right?

1:13:57And I feel guilty about that and I don't think that goes away. So right here, right here, you mentioned like that's what I did that. Yeah. Right there is taking ownership of it. Yes. That happened. Knowingly, unknowingly, whatever the case may be, I did that. Now with guilt, you think about it. It doesn't say that jewels you did that and you suck. Guilt just says, yeah, we did that. That doesn't, that's off course from where we want to go or who we are. Right. So guilt allows us, it gives us space and room to course correct. We're shame done. Shame says you suck, you're terrible, you're never going to change. You need to hold onto this entire life. Guilt says, yep, we got off course. That was bad. We need to do what we need to do, whether that's communicate with others, make amends with that. Course correct internally. But guilt never says that you're terrible. And guilt offers you to leave it behind once you course correct.

1:15:01You're back on track. Let's keep going. I really, really like that. Could just have really resonated with you. What's coming up for you around that idea? That all of a sudden I just thought of conversations. My kids are very curious. And so they've asked questions like they haven't said it. Do you feel guilty about anything as an open question? I have talked about things where like that I hold a prank on a teacher and I still to this day feel bad about it and things like that. So it kind of maybe falls into that category of sorry, I just put it there. I put it there with that teacher guilt right away. That's something that's always there. And that the course correct is I've never did it again because I felt guilty. But I could say that too about drinking as well. I get so much. I like that. I have a lot going through my mind about things that I've told them that I've done not

1:16:03to do. And this is how I felt about it. What might that offer in the future with just your relationship with them? I don't know what the words for it would be but the same thing it offered when I told them that I prank called somebody and felt bad with the consequences of it. I don't know what the words for that would be. So just honesty, transparency maybe. Transparency, yeah. That sounds like being authentic. Yeah. Does the projection of you fit in there? Yes. Also, is that a projection of you or is that authentic you? Hey, this is I've done this and once you know like here's some of my mistakes, here's what I've done and I'm open to talk about it. Yeah, that's authentic. Yeah. Does it feel like you're trying to control a narrative there? Oh, that way.

1:17:03You tell me how I'm asking you. You know you better not to. So I want to say, I want to say no, it doesn't seem like I'm controlling the narrative. What feels different? I guess now that I think of it, talking to them about it, now that it seems authentic, it just becomes a story in part of my life as part of it, as opposed to trying to worry about how they would think about it. How much control do you have over what they think about things realistically? Well, actually, I don't know. I mean, I want to say, I want to say none, but every parent contributes to how they're giving state and create their perceptions of things. I'm in the end at the end of the day, none as they grow up and realize my parents are just people. More now than I will in the future. Fair enough.

1:18:04And knowing that even now, I can influence them, right? But eventually they're going to be their own people. They might go out into the world and obtain a completely different view of things than I did. Go to college, you're going to do things, you're going to meet people, they're going to have all sorts of experiences that may shift everything that I ever told them. Or maybe not. But what if they know that I can always come back to mom who's going to be real with me or authentic? That's what I want. That's what I want. So what's the difference there between that true authentic version of you and the one that's trying to control everything, control the narrative? I thought I don't want to be controlling the narrative that I don't. I don't know. It might be something to sit with because that's a big identity shift. Yeah. I guess the idea is that I can't control the narrative because that's our narrative of folks.

1:19:08That's something, right? And well, too, just look at the cost of controlling. As you say at anxiety, having to say yes, you know, there's pressure there. Attention that always goes into doing that. Probably hyper awareness of what other people are thinking and seeing just by their facial expressions and what they say. Oh, yeah. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. It may be useful just to start noticing that. Okay. To feel the difference between these two new states to really start exploring this new state, this new idea, authenticity of yes, I've done things. Right? The shame of it has kept me quiet and kept me kind of shut down. And guilt allows me to course correct and talk about it openly. Right? As real me, as their mom, as just as a human having a conversation. Does that make sense? Yeah. It does. A lot. Actually, I feel like a weight lifted.

1:20:09It just makes so much more sense. Yeah. Notice that. Know that. That's a place you can reside as well. Sure. I was willing to check in first just see how you're feeling now versus when we're starting. That's a good question. Right now, I feel excited about excited about what we just talked about. So that I can just be authentic and that they are in a loving space anyway. And so that just goes with how our day to day conversations go anyway. And so this is this would be heavier. This would be heavier conversation. But I wouldn't pretend that it's the same conversation as you know. That's all more weight. Yeah. Yes, it does. But it can be considered lighter than it is in my head. Mm. If hopefully by the time we have that conversation, I don't know when that is that it's in the

1:21:10past. That it's something that happened and being vulnerable to the kids and letting them know like how it and what it is and without some of the details, obviously. Right. Right. You don't have to tell them everything, right? But there is this idea of openness and vulnerability and. Yeah. Hey, yeah. This is what I did in the past and I'm owning that and I'm all there's what I did to course correct and right. What a great way to model life to somebody too. That's great. Yeah. Well, Jules is coming to time here and I just want to see does this feel like a good place to one down? Does this feel like we covered what you want to talk about? Yeah, I mean, I have a smile on my face. I'm, yeah. Okay. This was what I wanted to talk about like on a surface level and we got deeper to the just the perfect spot where I just feel so much better about it.

1:22:11So. Okay. So thank you. Great. Yeah. I really appreciate you being willing to go to those steps and to take a look at some stuff. It was beautiful conversation. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, everybody for listening. As always, we so much appreciate you'll be in here listening, tuning in and holding space for vulnerable conversations like this. It means a lot. Stay curious, stay compassionate, y'all. Much love. See y'all soon. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If something in this conversation inspired you, made you feel seen or sparked a shift, I'd be so grateful if you left a quick rating review. It helps others discover the show and your words might just be the invitation someone else needs to begin their own journey. If you're curious about what it looks like to go deeper, to truly change your relationship with alcohol and find lasting freedom, I'd love to invite you to explore the path.

1:23:12It's our signature program and community designed to walk with you every step of the way. You can learn more at nakedmindepath.com. Until next time, stay curious.